The Steve Dangle Podcast - Rod Brin'Demons | May 22, 2026

Episode Date: May 22, 2026

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, 00:00 Montreal takes game 1 35:00 Cale remains out for game 2 47:30 The Hamilton Hammers are unveiled 53:00 Vancouver, Petey, and Gillis 1:08:00 Edmonton's goalie situation 1:13:00 The McDavid bad captain article 1:21:00 Auston Matthews is warming up 1:27:00 Scott Wheeler joins the show to talk about the upcoming draft! Visit this episode's sponsors: Head to http://fabletics.com/SDP and sign up as a VIP to get 80% off everything! Canada’s game🤝Canada’s beer. Enjoy every play with Moosehead Canadian Lager– 100% owned, packaged and brewed in Canada. Visit ⁠https://www.instagram.com/moosehead/⁠ For all the odds, T’s and C’s, and to learn more visit ⁠https://betmgm.com/DANGLE⁠. 19+ to wager. Any opinion expressed is not advice, a promise or suggestion that increases the chance of winning. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact ConnexOntario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Watch all episodes of The Steve Dangle Podcast here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLk7FZfwCEidkgWpSiHVkYT7HrIzLPXlY Watch clips of The Steve Dangle podcast here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLk7FZfwCEieOJuIrqWyZPWSIJtVMCbLz Buy SDP merch https://sdpnshop.ca/ Visit https://sdpn.ca/schedule to see when our next live stream airs! Check out https://sdpn.ca/events to see The Steve Dangle Podcast live! Watch hockey with us! Live on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLk7FZfwCEifCTX0vkKEaGg9otrW4Zl2k Subscribe to the sdpn YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@sdpn?sub_confirmation=1Join Subscribe to SDP VIP!: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0a0z05HiddEn7k6OGnDprg/join Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/thestevedanglepodcast Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sdpvip/subscribe - Follow us on Twitter: @Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram: @SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Join us on Discord: https://discord.com/invite/MtTmw9rrz7 For general inquiries email: [e-mail] Reach out to https://www.sdpn.ca/sales to connect with our sales team and discuss the opportunity to integrate your brand within our content! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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download that. TaskRabbit.ca. Code Dangle. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. the steve dangle podcast with your host steve dangle adam wild and jesse blake imagine being in montreal this weekend you get the formula one grand prix tim is there by the

way shout out tim moraney the montreal victoire just won a championship as it was foretold from the heavens marie-philippe houlin finally a champion in the pwhl which i think is the is that the final thing she needs like has she collected all the infinity stones probably prime minister she'd probably do that next right but i'm just talking about her playing career you can't be prime minister and play hockey at the same time i don't think right one more ring i can think of hockey hall of fame okay yeah well that's a lock though yeah huh you got a ring for it i guess i'm saying during her playing career steve she should get it during her playing career so should yager but he's not allowed that's i know it's right it's crap but they should make

an exception for her because she's got the gold medals the world championships i probably junior stuff that i don't even she's got everything everything and then she's got a cartoony trophy list and then flavor flave invited them down pardon flavor flave said congratulations to the pwhl champions montreal victoire on your victory y'all earned yourselves an invite to las vegas for flavor flave's she weekend uh and basically he uh flavor flave's a big supporter of women's sports and uh and he said yes uh there will be extra hotel rooms and everything and so so yeah flavor slave wants them to come down apart yeah i remember he did this with the american gold medal team too yeah a couple months ago you take them up on take flavor flavor up on that

offer i mean you don't leave them on red no you go see flavor flavor in vegas flavor yeah come on uh and then lastly last night wow i'm just gonna start this by saying don't you think it's funny how oh i think it's ridiculous first anyhow first off i think it's ridiculously funny how steve's like strubel's got to get in and he was in and then steve said hey slapping coffee all day you haven't produced a lot they did they did and i also want to say that i keep mentioning freddie anderson's eastern conference final appearance where he had 15 goals against in three games and we're already a third of the way plus there okay we might as well just jump right in jump in well yeah that's what we're doing drew hit me with a stat at the end of last night's stream

that doesn't seem real the hurricanes last 18 eastern conference final games and let me just acknowledge yeah lee fan i would love to play an 18 eastern conference final oh man imagine i would love that what is their record have you seen this if you've seen it don't screw it up but just guess they've played 18 games there's so many games what's the record so like in their entire franchise history no and they're just their last 18 last 18 well i know they got swept by florida in 23 i know that they had two wins last year so that's already they're two and eight i don't think they did have two wins last year adam they didn't did they just have the one they must have they won one game last year you don't they didn't get swept last year i think they did i think they did

and then i can't remember the rest so i can i know half of them they're one in 17 oh shit wow as someone who who specializes in covering a team that has just the most insane amount of demons i'm sorry you can't tell me that's not in their head like the easy narrative is rust they were shot out of a cannon to start the game they almost scored first shift they scored second scored 33 seconds in or whatever and then immediately allowed a goal it was one one a minute in yeah it looked like carolina the first shift of the game first two shifts of the game it looked like they were going to put montreal through the boards and if you missed scary i know the rest of the period like montreal had the three goals but even at the beginning of the second

period the entire second period the entire second period i was like okay this is what i expected they warmed up they might not come back and win this game but they're gonna be fine for the series and then in the third period they don't get it i don't know if they adjusted it after the fact they didn't get a shot they did they had two shots at the end of the third period that's still ass they were losing big like the shots were six two double digits the worst um worst period of leafs playoffs in least playoffs history at least this is what they used to call it was leafs versus new jersey in like 2003 or something like that or 2002 and they had six shots it's six shots yeah it's dude one in 17 this is the argument that i was trying to get into with

the chat and opinions were split I think if you gave this year's Vancouver Canucks 18 cracks at winning a playoff game they win more than one the NHL's too tight for 1 and 17 I think most teams could ice their AHL team and win more than one one I'm sorry that's it's at least a little bit mental that's insane for context they were swept by the penguins in 2009 in the conference final and then in 2019 they were swept by the bruins and then in 23 they were swept by the panthers and then in 25 they got one game against the panthers adam was right so there's your one and 18 that's crazy that's absolute crazy town and last night was devastating for lazy people everywhere i said this for two shows i was like listen the hurricanes need to be great in game one

because they've had a record-breaking amount of time off and for everyone who loves time off they need to be great so we can see we can say see all we needed was time off you give me a little bit of time off i'm gonna be great when i come back i promise boss and they were the worst they've been in forever they allowed more goals last night than they did in either series this playoffs that's crazy since 2000 teams with nine plus days of rest are now two and five in their first game back from the layoff that's according to sports net stats uh which is bonkers um what was the drew stat This was also, I believe, a Sportsnet stats one, and I'm looking it up just to make sure. But any team, sorry, the Hurricanes are the fourth team to have 10 plus days off between

playoff games. None of the previous three teams won their next series. So the Drew stat was, I believe it's teams coming off a seven game series playing against teams coming off a four game series are seven and one, I think. Are the Habs going to do this? well and the other thing i think is fun youngest teams to make the average the conference final since 1987 which is the year before we were born uh new jersey devils in 1988 25 and a half boston bruins in 1988 25.3 i think boston won that series didn't they go to the finals no who won

the year we were born i don't know uh probably montreal canadians uh 25.8 this year montreal canadians 1993 the last time they or any canadian team won a cup 9 25.8 so they're exactly tied i have a hard time wrapping my head around that because to me they're all old men i know chris chelios will never be 23 years old to me but he was like pretty young wasn't like gee carbino on that yeah oh yeah yeah no jess this is just rust no no montreal like there's we're not giving them enough praise for what they did in that game because it's everything that Montreal is at their peak the Caulfield Suzuki Slavkovsky line last night they had nearly an 80 percent expected goals share when the three of them were on the ice it's a it's a ridiculous scoring ability where

it's they know that coming into this series Carolina is going to try and hem them in a lot they're going to try and get all their shots and if we can break out on the rush and score and using our explosive talent to do that, we're going to get our chances. We're going to be able to get goals. And they just executed that perfectly to a tee. Carolina wasn't ready. They made a bunch of mistakes.

Slavin was terrible. Minus three in the first period, I think. He was? Yeah. Yeah, I know he finished the game minus four. Oh, my God. It's ridiculously awful from the best defensemen in the league. And they took advantage of that

because they have the talent up and down their lineup to do it. their back end and their ability to move the puck is nothing that carolina has we mentioned it in the preview it's like that's where montreal can truly take advantage of that and a guy like mike matheson i know he got burned on the the first goal but from there excellent yeah his skating is so underrated too lane hudson they can take advantage of this team dance all over them like three and a half minute shift last night by the way yeah not on purpose though managed it and then And like guys like Philip Deneau are going to shut it down and like, oh, there he is contributing offensively, which he's not tasked to do, but he's doing it. And when they're firing on all cylinders, they're as good as anybody in the league.

And that's credit to Martin St. Louis, who had them ready to play. And Rob Bryn Mawr didn't have his team ready to play with all that time off. And I don't know, like Montreal, I could easily see taking the series now. They might have allowed more goals in the first three minutes of a game than any other team in these playoffs. which is maybe besides that weird wild avalanche game uh game one remember oh right a 15 goal game but i don't i even then i still don't know if that happened that early probably six goals in the first minute yeah it was great that was a crazy game um but like i'm like i'm just looking at how it broke down obviously jarvis got the first goal that line is so stacked caulfield

scores and it's five on five everyone gets a cookie on that goal too which he hasn't been doing and now that he has his five on five goals going like who are you stopping in that lineup philip dino squeaks by two one freddie anderson at the time like i'm gonna go step by step because every stat with the carolina hurricanes is more absurd than the last good and bad and they're like freddie anderson is not allowed more than two goals in these playoffs and i'm like wow that's crazy the habs did it a no sorry four minutes in okay texier gets it already blown the doors off and i'm sorry that has to be in your head they haven't like every hockey players always talk about and coaches always talk about adversity and dealing with adversity no team remaining

has dealt with more than the Montreal Canadiens, at least in these playoffs. At least when it comes to, they've had their back against the wall, right? Like I talked about it last show, they've been pretty healthy, so that's been good. But two game seven scenarios and you were outplayed in both game sevens, right?

You get, you think about how embarrassing your season could have ended both times. You had nine shots against Tampa. We carved them all summer for that. But they win, so who cares? You blow a 2-0 lead in Game 7 against Buffalo. We carve you all summer for that. You win, who cares?

And then you have Carolina, who, forget not losing games, they haven't allowed goals. Like, the Texier one goes in, there was a feeling of, oh, this game's over. They might not get back in this one. demidov three minutes later the most snake bitten player in the league who's now all of a sudden got three in pretty short order it might even be in three straight games or three out of three out of his last four what is what don't you like about the montreal canadians right now and this

whole time you haven't even mentioned dobish has been fantastic well he's the free space yeah and And I think the Tampa game and the Buffalo game sevens, they've given this team a certain level of confidence where the way Carolina plays is like how their opponents played in those game sevens. And they knew that they can weather those storms and come out of it, even though they're outplayed and outshot, they can do enough to win these games. And that's how they got to play this entire series. And they started off playing it just like that. And they're fine. Carolina could easily right the ship in game two and win the series in five total they could long series game one yeah but game one's over reaction season it is and while the chat was full of it

yesterday if carolina loses or sorry let's say they get swept right okay it's over reaction right now they have not won a game they're on the verge of getting swept right let's say they get sweat i think rod brindamore is one of the best coaches in the league i you have to i think the front office in carolina is to process driven to ever fire yeah no i don't think that's that's what happens that's not i don't think that's if they get sweat i think i don't think it's on i don't think it's like crossing eric tulsky's mind to ever fire rod also when are you gonna get a coach that cheap let's oh i also want to say this i want to say this about carolina because there's a lot there's a lot to impact with Carolina so if you're Kane's fan listen to this going this is all

Habs propaganda it isn't we're going to come back on the other side of this I do think though if they got swept or even if they lose this series guys what the narrative the narrative is going to be is game-breaking talent which is why they went out and got Miko Rantanen last year and then had to obviously retrade him that is going to be the thing that people go well you know they're just a bunch of guys and they get together a great team whatever and Aho's great and Svej is great and That's awesome. But again, it comes down to there are those guys, your Quinn Hughes's, your Miko Rantanen's,

your Nathan McKinnon's, your Kale McCarr's who snap a game in half even if they are on the losing side of it. So what I mean like is they've been shit all game but Nathan McKinnon scores in the last minute because he's fucking Nathan McKinnon. Do the Carolina Hurricanes have that guy? To me, it's not that.

Well, it is. The narrative is that. Whether it's that or not is different. i hate to be your uncle about this they were baby shit in game one soft holy disgraceful disgraceful that's not how you're never going to want to stay on the cup like that never but that isn't how they played in the first two rounds no that's why i was shocked they were the tougher team in both yeah but i i watched the the sends game closer than the or the send series closer than the flyers one that's not how they played at all no they were the tougher team

in both series but the Sens maybe the Sens aren't as tough as we thought they might be I thought that was the way that Sens were going to get through Carolina was drag them into the muck you got the other Kachuk like drag them in that's how Florida ran them maybe they're fat and happy just because of all the time off because I'm used to watching playoff series with my stupid team playing against the stupid Bruins and the stupid Lightning and the stupid Panthers every you can't even throw a commercial break every whistle there's a scrum every single whistle what do they do they throw a weak puck at the goalie so that the goalie covers it up they get an ozone draw and also here's a little smelly glove in your face every single whistle carolina

didn't do it once what and they're down three like i'm watching them down three at home at home The fans are – I can't believe they didn't throw shit on the ice. Like, by 10 minutes in, they were feral with the refs, with the outcome of the game, with everything. Puck goes in. Dobish covers it up. Jack-Eye's not in the lineup. Let's get to the bench.

Oh, you're never going to win a cup. Not like that. No shot. No shot. You got to go back, and Jesse's right. They haven't played like this all playoff long. They play like they did last night, just from a mental standpoint. Forget the guys getting behind you.

forget getting outscored it's a goal scoring contest if you don't do the little war-like things that you need to do to win the stanley cup you're you're not gonna make it out of the series you're not gonna make it out with a game under your belt i went there's questions for both of you but i want to leave jesse on it worst playoff game you've ever seen jake slavin play yeah i think rob brindamore i would agree with that i think everybody can see him out there he just he looked very off it was very strange because it's so unlike him and it stands out if he's not having a good game and yeah he had a terrible game we were the guy steve you're you're always the guy that says slavin when nothing happens on the ice that's when you know he's

at his best it's a busy game it was a very busy game and guys who you pay to make something happen uh didn't show up as well shane gossespierre um i only know this as a shane gossespierre fantasy holder i know it wouldn't be up anymore but uh it was like 50 or 55 minutes into the game zeros across the board no goals no assists no blocks no shots no hits no nothing nope no shots shame gosh despair oh boy now like game two you just gotta burn the tape well so this is the thing so for carolina to get back in this series need a little bit more toughness although that isn't their game it is a part of playoff hockey and you guys mentioned they were tougher against flyers and tougher against yeah your toughness doesn't matter if you're not playing defense

yeah right you can't you can't tough your way into playing good defense and scoring goals and they didn't do either of those things so how do you prevent the montreal breakaways that was a thing uh that's about the worst defensive game i've ever seen the carolina hurricanes play and i know the habs can be that means that they can only go up from here oh yeah like i know the habs can be a really good team in transition but you know there were so many games that i've watched in these playoffs where the habs have like two or three on the board and i'm watching them skate with the puck and i'm like they may never score again like it's just they take advantage of their opportunities when they arrive

and they're so patient but those opportunities were so seldom against the lightning and buffalo was buffalo was a fascinating matchup for them because they did get their chances buffalo got no goaltending whatsoever freddie has to be better he does but uh all the things that montreal does so well and did so well in this game blocking shots blocking passes sticks in lanes just making your breakout even miserable the amount of times they slow their opponent down. So they got to throw it back and restart and seconds are just draining off the clock. They play so well with the lead. I just don't see Carolina ever allowing that easy of a time ever again. Like I think their blue line is going to be a fortress in game two. And if it's

not see you in colorado or vegas next week because it's going to be a short one jess what about you what do you think yeah no i can bring up the uh nhl edge just uh little dots running around the screen while they just talk about how montreal won every board battle and skated carolina into the ground so on the demidoff goal it's a breakout from the other end demidoff sneaks out and he gets in behind the defense. The same thing happens on this Texier goal where they're coming down the ice off the rush. He's actually the one bringing the puck into the zone, makes a little nifty move in behind the defense to the weak side and gets that goal. And then once again, on the Philip Deneau goal, you'll see on the edge visualizer, it starts at the other end of the ice. And it's

another goal by the skater Deneau this time coming up the middle of the ice, scoring off of the rush. And lastly, the first goal that was also scored off of the rush by Cole Caulfield, as there's the breakout, he's coming in the zone. And it's all of these first shots after crossing the blue line, and they're just out skating their opponent, winning that board battle, knowing that they can get up the ice and immediately enter the zone with numbers and an ability to shoot from the guys who are going to have the puck on their stick. Like, you know that Cole Caulfield, if he gets into position as a clear shot on Freddie, he's going to be able to score and he's doing it each and every time when they get these breakouts. It's a master class in knowing we can out skate our opponent and we're not going to be able to set up offensively for very long and pepper five shots in one sequence. We can get that first one in with numbers and we're going to score. And they did it four times in that period. can you throw the first one back up because like this is a partially broken play like you have two chances to stop caulfield look at that pass it's nowhere near him he's still there guys it's cool yeah look at this look at this pass over to call oh no go to call go to call go to call okay pucks behind the net cold doesn't exist anymore bye goal what that's crazy you got it like if you're watching the game uh tomorrow night like every time the puck leaves carolina's end

and montreal starts breaking out with it it might be a goal like sit back in your chair you might see some magic because montreal's gonna be looking to score off the rush they're really good so they didn't pull freddie anderson which makes me believe they're going back to him you got it in game two you got to however i'm gonna remind everyone brandon bussey basically didn't lose this year his record his extension was signed it well his save percentage was 895 yeah which meh it's not poor these days but it's meh i believe his record was 31 6 and 2 freddie anderson didn't lose in these playoffs until last night until last night but i'm just saying you have a goaltender who all season long you

essentially did not lose with it gets late so early in the playoffs man oh they're not pulling him yet i know freddie's been great you're fully justified leaving him in yesterday and you're fully justified leaving him in game two if you're down to nothing you have to make decisions very fast i think adam's perspective on this is the most interesting as the number one freddie anderson hater or at least not a hater not i'm a realist okay number one freddie disbeliever is it on the defense in front of him or is it on freddie well you know the the typical hockey thing is it's never the goaltender's fault you're taught that from a young age it's never the goalie's fault it's and and you know you know what's so fucking crazy about that is every goal come every shot comes

off a broken play every shot you're not supposed to allow them hockey is a broken play sport you actually fail 98 of the time it's the plays that succeed that are the surprises right oh that's that you're like in football it's like you want a completion rate over you know in the 70 percentile whatever in hockey if you get one in the 10 percentile you're winning by a lot and and and i think you gotta remember 57 of your face offs you're gonna be in like the hall of fame yeah 100 you're literally bergeron i i think what for me with freddie is is that it's never that he's not a good goalie it's high leverage situations that i don't believe you can trust him in and um now i could be wrong here but the stats kind of back me on that you go back to the toronto

maple leaf series in boston and i get by the way people like well that's not carolina's a much different team that yeah they're better they're way better actually they're better on defense and they're way way way way better on defense than those toronto oh yeah i'm sure nikita zaitsev connor carrick and roman polak never hung freddie anderson out to dry and when you look at some of the goals that he allowed i thought i think it was the third goal of the game there's a couple of where i'm like you need to have a save there you need to have a save there it'd be nice to get one and if you know what i mean and and if you have was it the was it the dino was to know a breakaway what was it no it was a breakaway i think freddie should have stopped that and i know people like

oh it's a breakaway most breakaways the goalie stops the puck yeah uh in fact that's why i don't like penalty shots i'd rather take the two minute because the breakaway thing the goalie's got the advantage they're big and it's philip dino not pavel that's exactly i love philip and i love but come on i mean what are we talking about here like it's there is there's at least okay fine adam you know it was on the defense they were terrible last night okay fine he could have stopped two of those six so i can forgive you not could have to needed to oh totally i can forgive you for getting for forgetting this conversation because it was on the show that we did uh by ourselves without jesse oh we were both mourning jesse's abs yeah absolutely but

you're like okay steve habs got just slaughtered by the sabers in game one what do they do in game two and my answer was not very good because i didn't know how to zhuzh up everything what can they do differently in game two well hopefully everything or this is going to be a short series yep um obviously the habs win it's a tight series goes to game seven overtime this isn't gonna be four this series yeah no i don't think it's five i think it's a six or a seven six it's at least it's at least six it's at least six if it's not holy shit what a story that'll be that's why i think it's gonna go late i mean like but pete deborah lost his job for being in the western the carolina hurricanes of coaches yep he gets there

he all he hit he's he wins he wins he wins he gets there something happens and he doesn't quite get there i i don't know this is the no i'm gonna ask you a question okay i know you're leaning rod i'm still on freddie here freddie anderson gonna steal you a game yes yes when earlier these playoffs okay steal steal a game i'm not talking about hurricanes don't need it no no no yes they do actually you're right actually when you have a shit game like montreal did in game seven tampa game seven buffalo on the road both who stole them the game if they don't outplay their opponent they're gonna lose shit i don't might be honest is freddie anderson gonna steal you a game no if freddie anderson steals the game and steals the series hats off to him i just haven't seen it yet

and that will not change the fact just like mitch martyrs playing great in vegas and didn't in toronto that won't change the fact to that to this point we've never seen him do it and if he all of sudden does it great because we all kind of thought it was it was in there no no adam if it rains on the 10th day of a drought it has always been right exactly so i'm just saying how convinced i've seen dovish steal games no seen it happen i saw in game six and seven in the last series montreal got soundly outplayed in both of those games i i have not seen freddie anderson steal you a game i have not seen it and canes fans if you're being honest if you're being honest be honest have you seen it where where adam has a point here is carolina to their credit

always outplays their opponent yeah so when they don't you need a goalie to step in and steal you a game and listen i get why they build their their cap the way that they do carolina is really smart they don't spend too much on goaltending in fact everybody that's left in the playoffs doesn't spend that much on goaltending like it's really it's crazy quite intelligent although i mean last year we saw the panthers with a 10 million dollar goaltender win their second cup in a row in their third three finals five million on their third makes a couple dollars yeah but yeah yeah i'm just all i'm saying is that is is i understand why they structure their cap the way they do i understand why they make the trades that they do they don't often lose trades

i do think you know maybe maybe the x factor for them and maybe the game-breaking player that that that really needs to be plugged in there is a goaltender maybe it's bussy maybe it's anderson but i'm still i am still unconvinced and i think after game one really unconvinced because carolina will have bad games every team does yeah it's the final four yeah yep this isn't tuesday night in fucking nashville sorry preds fans and i just this was the first seat and you guys weren't very good this year neither were we i'm just it's not tuesday night in toronto hey where the leafs are like oh we can't move the puck uh it's it's quite literally montreal who is an ascendant team who probably wins the division next year and the next three

or four years and you know dude carolina who's won it what five of the last six years if if if you were wondering hey is steve a habs fan now dude i looked at the habs puckpedia last night i had hard time getting to sleep oh it's all it's it's so much pain as i was so sad it's awful i was so sad yes jesse i have an adam mod stat for you for everybody out there listening uh-oh freddie anderson has played in three career elimination games in the conference finals oh yes he's lost them all anaheim chicago game seven yep this is their situations where his team could be eliminated in conference finals anaheim chicago game 7 2015 five goals allowed on 26 shots that's so crazy because that was a pretty sure earlier those playoffs he was unbeatable

yeah oh my god elimination game in the conference finals number one second time around carolina florida four goals on 24 shots respectable four goals it's not great third elimination game in a conference final florida 2025 four goals on 24 shots that's actually insane that it was identical so he has not had an elimination game in the conference final where he did not allow uh at least four so you can't do much better than not allowing 20 they you if you are in an elimination game and you don't reach 25 shots we're gonna assume you won no i if if you don't achieve 20 oh i think i'm gonna allow against you yeah yeah sorry if you're the panthers most nights you're probably gonna go we didn't do very well

yeah so wow i'm saying i haven't seen it yet and i think it's a fair question we'll find out the answer by the end of the series oh also uh game three of that series i guess this elimination game they did win it three nothing so there you go there's one there's one good game shut out shutout three nothing there you go 20 shots 20 saves and then the next game hey how many shots against 20 ah it's the 24 oh is it team defense then or is it the goaltender i'm just the most listen it's you you might think i'm splitting hairs here we're in the final four hairs need to be split the most concerning part for me underratedly is not the goaltending is not the defense i think both of those will write themselves it's after that really really strong

second period they couldn't even get a shot i know they got two that that's scary that's scary that was an ugly third yep ugly ugly third after uh listen you stink out of the gate and no one's actually all that shocked if they think about it second period happens you go that's more like it third oh dear sometimes life throws your curveballs and you don't have time to get to them and that's where task rabbit comes in and i think you should check this out because here's the deal one of the things one of the weird quirks about my condo building is that they use my floor to repel down and clean all the windows but they never clean my windows oh and they're way around on that it's like well it's a patio window you can do that yourself and i'm like well hang on a second what

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You should download that. TaskRabbit.ca. Code DANGLE. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. Now, let's talk about Vegas Avalanche. I don't want to spend too much time on this because it's tonight yeah uh but i do want to say this uh it's already uh it's

been announced kale mccarr will not play uh let me just adjust the fantasy lineup again mark stone is in at least in morning skate but he was in morning skate for game one two and people were saying i think it was free actually that said the nhl network that he was like well from what i've heard about stone's injury be really hard for him to get back before the end of this this series but it's mark stone and you know and they have pain killers so i mean you have a you have a chance to go up to nothing on colorado here's the thing i want to warn people in colorado um if you only watched to game 71 of vegas this year you don't know who the vegas golden knights are i told you they are outstanding and here's the thing and i keep saying this on the stream and i'm going

to say it to you here carter hart's always got the first save if you can't get rebounds on carter Hart, you will not score. You won't. Through traffic, redirections, you won't score. You don't get a rebound, you don't score. And what does Vegas do really well? Clear fucking rebounds. Carter Hart was a sponge. A sponge. When that puck hit him, he covered it. And when it did bounce off of him, and maybe this is Colorado and we'll get to the Nathan McKinnon quote in a second, when it did redirect, the guys are able to clear that puck easily because they clog the slot. all the time now I want to talk about Nathan McKinnon and his body language because you guys saw that play where he makes the play across the blue line and he goes oh and then starts yelling

at guys on the bench and I want to tell you this he's fucking right everybody that's going in on Nathan McKinnon about his game and about his body language and whatever Colorado were sloppy Marty Nietzsche's had I think the worst game I've ever seen him have I can't um the amount of weak passes he made to literally vegas carries the puck across the neutral zone into the blue line marty niches and he gives it to william carlson it's it's which is insane because zones everywhere it's watching it's insane that him and nathan mckinnon are on the same team completely and they're they're so good when they're on they're so fast they're absolutely ridiculously fast and i did it again while watching game one uh is it drew or logan o'connor i always get

i always get it i think it's logan i just say o'connor number 25 if i don't have my glasses on there are times where i think o'connor is mckinnon for or o'connor is is mckinnon for a second because he's right-handed his number starts with two and he's ridiculously fast and if he's going down uh one end of the ice if you go into the left of the screen you're like there goes mckinnon that's o'connor yeah shoot i do it's insane all three of them logan it's logan thank you drew is on the penguins question mark i don't know where drew o'connor is yeah where is drew o'connor what the hell is he up to uh i did that with coglin school uh because i thought it was uh colasar he's it's 52 and 55 and so i only saw the five and i'm like that's

Chad or not Chadfield. That's that's why am I losing his name? I just said it. Chadfield? No, no, no. On Vegas. Vegas. Drew O'Connor?

No, 55 on Vegas. Colasar. I was like, that's Colasar. And I was like, wait a second. That's not Colasar when they were the guy that they're hugging. I don't even know if he's on the ice. Oh, yeah. It's Coghlan.

Yeah, I was watching. Last night. It's Coghlan. It was a nightmare. Anderson makes a big save on Anderson. Puck goes into the corner. Carrier's got it. No, Carrier takes it.

Drew O'Connor's on the Canucks. oh he's been there for two seasons he was on the penguins before yeah part of the process now uh okay anyway i just want to say this so kale not playing scary i thought malinsky did a good job but here's the thing let's play this uh let's play this mckinnon clip if we can jesse because mckinnon sums it up and people are like oh i saw vegas fans going in on it and picking adam and i get i totally get why they're doing that nathan mckinnon is right he always does this but he's right yes he's he couldn't have said it better and i know he was a little rude to mark masters and we love mark masters members of masters nation but he's right and he's right

to be pissed play the clip please anything to really take from how that game ended or is this i've just said execution like five times i think that's what hurts i don't that's it i don't think that's rude necessarily if you saw the face though he's like okay guys i'm done answering this question and he's right i think people are like first off people love to hate nathan mckinnon because uh he's a total bastard and he gets angry out there and and and it's it makes it easy to pick on him uh but because we're used to our hockey players being stoic what i love about nate is he's a dog always a dog always and he's always raising the floor watch him again oh no oh we can't remember but you watch him again steve oh no i see him

no he's i see him he's angry and the reason i barely react is i'm like uh yeah i've seen that a hundred times i'm not taking too much from this i think he's right that was a correct response he's frustrated after a game that's that's what i want out of nathan mckinnon there was i want to say it was daryl boyce this is like very early on in me being allowed in locker rooms to talk to guys and he basically said something along the lines of like i don't think people appreciate like how fucking hard it is to go out there and get your ass kicked and then come in here and immediately answer questions oh i can't i yeah you know what those save me the sadness uh you make millions of dollars you'll be fine no i'm sorry any any answer you know what i don't

appreciate that i also can't appreciate making a million dollars a year i would like 12.5 million yeah i'll answer your question no no okay i'm not saying woe is nathan mckinnon i'm saying or daryl boys for that matter or daryl boys who wasn't making millions he was with the marlies okay maybe he's making 100 grand maybe he's making it which is at the hey playing hockey for 100 grand a lot of people would take that i was living with my parents when i interviewed him yeah uh but uh mckinnon um he's got a fire that burns hot he didn't call masters a fucking asshole he was he was kurt i will call it and he should be mad yeah they let him down and it was great notably he was present so he won't be fined uh that's true all right now we got to move on

other things because there's a lot to get through in this carter hart fantastic yep he's been amazing he's been one of the i think the best goalie in the playoffs so far if mitch martyr doesn't win the cons might carter hart might also i think it's very transparent that steve has said nothing about mitch marner's pass it was a fantastic pass why are you silent it was amazing why are you silent on the mitch marner praise because i want him to lose you've been sitting here not acknowledging he made a fantastic play no listen uh listen there are seven wins away from the inevitable uh they are going to win the stanley cup mitch marner is going to win the con smith he's gonna bring it back home oh no he's gonna bring

it back home to steve's house actually he's gonna he's gonna dude he's gonna bring it to an orphanage take a bunch of pictures and he's gonna bring it to steve dang he's gonna bring it to a kill shelter oh and adopt all the dogs like he's they're gonna have like the needle yep and he's gonna be like he's gonna kick down the door with the cup over his head and go stop in like the deepest bass in his voice you've ever heard yeah but but here's the thing what he doesn't want to be a part of this conversation anymore and neither do we he was amazing i'm not done he was amazing oh okay sorry he's gonna specifically wait until okay does he bring the cup to the x during the x or does he bring it to a World Cup game?

Probably the World Cup. Probably the World Cup. Why not both? If I'm Vegas, I allow him two weeks with the Cup. Yeah, he gets the extra week. Yeah, he's going to parade it around Muskoka. If I'm Vegas, I give him seven consecutive days with the Stanley Cup.

And you're going to be so mad the whole time. Big man. No, I'm used to this. Nazem Kadri being objectively a liability and then winning the cup for another team that he was a liability for the year before, or two years before, whatever it was. Then getting on TV and being like, everyone who called me a liability can kiss my ass.

Watching Bozak go to St. Louis and immediately win it. Phil Kessel brought the cup here when he won. Yes. Phil Kessel brought the cup here. So if Marner does it, I'll be like, boo, old hat. The difference is Marner's from here, whereas Kessel's a guy from, I think, Wisconsin. and decided to bring it here anyway?

Can I do my impression of Steve Dangle calling Mitch Marner's game-winning Stanley Cup goal? Yes, then we must move on. Here it is. Harumph. That's you. You're so mad. Can I do it?

Okay. All right, all right. Come on, let's get into this. So I want to talk about this very quickly. Islanders are a big deal these days. Matthew Schaefer was on the Today Show to get his rookie of the year. And he's now going to be on the Kelly Clarkson Show today. I don't know why, but he's going to be there.

Why not? So Matthew Schaefer on the Kelly Clarkson Show. Now, I was in Hamilton yesterday. And I got the chance to see the unveiling of the Hamilton Hammers, which is the AHL team. It was pretty cool. By the way, I'd never been in COPS Coliseum, which is now TD Coliseum, pre-renovation. uh but it's like a it's like a nightclub in there it's everything is black and it's all painted and they have and this is cool their boxes you know how everybody's got their corporate boxes their

corporate boxes are at the glass so what they have is on one side of the rink they've got the you know it's like everything's a bowl right but what they've done is they've dropped the five rows uh at one one side and so these corporate boxes are with the you know with the whole thing all on the glass so it's kind of like the restaurant at the bottom in the barracudas arena yes where we were recording our podcast yeah so it was cool it was cool to see uh but i did get to talk to former leaf and new york islander legend matt martin and i asked him about a few things but i asked him specifically about matthew schaefer and i just wanted you to hear his answer because he's actually by the way matt martin gives a good solid answer so this is gonna be a long one you should have

asked him just leaves questions matthew's stand yeah but i asked him about marner and schaefer and some of the simulators there because both of them hung out with matt martin when they were young go ahead we have a lot of islanders fans to listen to the show so for them special year and tough at the end but a guy like matthew schaefer walking in the dressing room i know you've developed a pretty good relationship with him and you've got that reputation throughout your career where you've really taken guys under your wing you know mitch marner in toronto here comes to mind um can you tell us a little bit about matthew and what makes him special well Well, you know, from a personality standpoint, Mitchie and Matty aren't that different.

Just two fun-loving guys, love to be around. I didn't have kids when Mitchie was his age, but I would imagine it would have looked similar. You know, Matty just loves to play with my girls, and it's been such a pleasure for us to have him in our house, just watching the relationships that he's been gone for, you know, what's it been, a week and a half now? my girls every day are like when's shafe coming back when's shafe coming back because uh all he does is play with him when he's around so uh he's kind of integrated himself right into our family

and uh you know we're pretty blessed to have that everyone you know always says that uh we're doing so much for him but he does a lot for us at the same time and obviously on the ice he's a real treat to watch i'm sure you guys have enjoyed him too um he's we're just heartbroken he's not a toronto guy yeah well yeah i figured as much but uh listen you guys are gonna have a pretty electrifying player than i would imagine with the first overall pick so uh but you know to be able to get him a defenseman with that personality and him take the lead by starting the way he did uh you know you can win the lottery and not get that either so uh we're pretty fortunate out in long island to to have gotten it that year and the craziest thing about

it is is uh there was a question as to whether he was going to go number one yeah and i i would I think there was a lot of teams that maybe would have went with a forward. So, obviously, with his injury and everything, guys didn't see him as much. But we had some questions of whether he was going to play this year, and those were erased pretty well the first time he stepped on the ice. So, just – Have you played against him? Have I played against Schaef?

No. No. No. You haven't stepped on the ice together, not once? Guys like that are the reason I retired. Schaef's been around all game. Yeah, he was great, really complimentary. I thought that was kind of cool.

and like you know that that kind of leads in perfectly we're gonna have scott wheeler on the show a little bit later and you know last year it wasn't a consensus number one and you know everybody thought it was gonna be schaefer but there were other picks that you could have made and he i'm gonna say it again he didn't play yeah he broke his was it collarbone at uh the world juniors i don't remember and he was very 17 games yeah like 17 holy smoking ohl games yeah so uh anyway for for for leaf fans and for everybody else talking about the top five we'll have wheeler on a little bit later in the show so i wanted to get to that i'm i'm fascinated uh about how hamilton embraces the hammers yeah like people don't know like hamilton really likes to think

of itself independently right like as they should no i know but like a lot of different parts of the gta the greater toronto area kind of glob on to toronto right hamilton's hamilton and they're they'll be the first to tell you that hamilton's hamilton huge on the tie cats um there's a lot of lee fans there obviously there's a lot of sabers fans there i wonder how the whl is coming yep yep yeah they're not the extension of toronto no i know what you mean well yeah that's why i get annoyed when people call it well it's the gtha okay well then then is it the gtha and welland and burlington and like what are we what are we doing here like is it it's just hamilton all of southern ontario is that what we're doing or is it is it is hamilton its own thing and it is what

do you guys think of the logo i love it it's pretty good yeah it's a little simple but it's pretty good it's pretty good i don't know man like it's a hammer right people are people are so hard on that like i don't know i just they went the right they went with the right name they sure did hammers is awesome yep 100 clutch canadians presented by moosehead canadian longer so we're talking about over the last week the most clutch canadians left in the playoffs and That's Canadians with an A, not Canadians with an E. But we're not kicking out the Canadians with an E because obviously that's a team full of Canadians on the Canadiens.

So who wants to go first? Who's got a pick? I can go first. You want to go first? Yeah, because this player from Victoriaville, Quebec is the true example of a 200-foot player. He contributes defensively. We know that.

And then last game, offensively, Philip Deneau scores a goal as well. He's the complete player. He was clutch. In his scoring abilities, Victoria Ville's Philip Deneau. Noted. Noted Alan Walsh client. I'm going to go with a Montreal Canadian who I think has achieved way higher than expectations. He already had a good reputation, but I think we've discovered another tier.

He's represented his country, Martin Saint-Louis. Oh, I like that. A coach pick. Man, it's one thing to be a legend. and coach 13 year olds and then go to the nhl with basically right away and get a bunch of young players on a young team with no expectations to like you that's one thing he's in the eastern conference final right now and he's getting closer and closer to winning the cup as a head coach that is not something any of us had on our bingo card a half a decade ago martin san luis i love

that okay mine is uh let's let's be honest nobody likes vegas no nobody likes them uh but they're great and they're coming on strong and one guy that's gotten zero flowers this entire playoffs is a defenseman who has nine points in 13 games on vegas on vegas shay theodore shay theodore canadian olympian and top line guy for the vegas golden knights he's been an unbelievable contributor in uh in defensive situations because vegas for my money is playing at least through the first couple of games through these conference finals. Vegas' defense has been the best of the four teams left.

And now you've got to include the fact that he has four goals and five assists too. Shea Theodore is a monster. He's been playing great. Shea Theodore is my 100% clutch Canadian. Even though I can't stand Vegas, damn, he's good. And remember, the reason we do this segment is because Canadians don't get the love

that perhaps they should. You know, I'm glad that Steve, last year, or last week, you picked Mitch Varner. Jesse, you were picking Philip Deneau there. I mean, this is the thing. Moosehead is 100% clutch Canadian because they brew here, they package here, and they sell here. And they're the last major Canadian brewery owned by Canadians. You can drink it here. You can also drink it here, and you should.

Check it out this weekend. And remember to get your picks in. Leave them in the comments. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer.

register today at pmcfwalk.ca um now i want to move on to vancouver because they continue to be an extraordinarily interesting story in hockey and i don't think it's getting quite enough play but there's been a full court press from the organization on what they're going to be and you heard cj talk about it on the cj show on tuesday which i highly recommend you you you listen to because you know he talks about the fact that the sardines are really the only guys with the heft within that group to be able to manage up with this ownership group who are notoriously difficult right that's the report everybody knows it and you know having having said that what i'm blown away by is ryan johnson talked about at his press conference with the

sardines we're going to embrace the media more and that seems to be what they've done times 100 now A friend of the show, John Shannon, hosts a podcast on the 100% Network, and he's got 100% Canucks. And they had Henrik sitting on. And when they had him on, they asked him about the obvious question, Elias Patterson. And the quote is from Henrik, it's up to him now. We're all here. We've all been here to help him. But in the end, this is a professional sport.

i don't know if you could have a more devastating thing said about the way you showed up to camp and the way you've played by a legendary swedish player you probably grew up loving than that i one of these like i'll read the book you know what i mean like i'd love to read the book on elias patterson when his career is all said and done um there are nights like i don't think canuck fans have been unfair with this player at all there have been nights where there was a game against the leafs because canucks played really well defensively against the leafs and he was at the forefront of it he was winning face-offs he was blocking shots um and they're like yeah what a great defensive effort and i'm like you're just describing philip

to know i remember that he makes 11.6 million dollars which he made because he scored 100 points was a 100 point player with 100 point potential and he's never come close to it soon as it was signed it went away it seems and this is the this is the the burden that you're paid for is it's not good enough that you're good it's barely good enough that you're great that's elite money you have to be elite will he be there guys is he really gonna be there where the hell's where is he going well the rumor was carolina was quite interested in him and you know they would be a team that i would think would take a flyer on that because you probably get him for free someone's gonna get him for dirt but at the end

of the day he still has the cap it sure caps going up uh-huh and if you can get let's say you get pedersen back to maybe you don't get it back to 100 points can you get him back to point a game if you get him back to point a game and in three years the caps hovering around 130 million which is what it's expected to do 125 or 30 million that is seven or eight percent of your cap for a second line center that seems palatable to me how do you get him to but can you get him to like hockey i don't know this is the thing like every time i see him talk i'm like this dude hates every moment just in the arena and do you want like the guys that we really love right you look at a crosby look at mckinnon you look at mcdavid you look at kucherov what and you know listen all

these guys have their warts all these guys have tempers all like people called Crosby a whiner for years still do uh people called McKinnon the same they call it they McDavid sometimes runs a little too hot dry saddle to all these guys they have their thing but what you cannot deny about those players Kucherov included in that too is that there is a driving desire burning passion to win and when I don't I don't take it well sports fans don't hang pictures of well-adjusted people on their wall and so what they're they're all driven crazy people so is this pedersen to that point steve is pedersen a guy i don't know if he's ever going to be that in terms of attitude but can if you have if you actively bring a dark cloud in your dressing room everybody knows a dark

cloud in their world they've got family member like the debbie downer that's how he's coming across and that is what's been portrayed about what happened in the dressing room especially after the jt miller stuff whatever happened there is that a good idea i think it's probably time for everyone to get a fresh start okay the the jt miller trade somehow found a way to be bad for both um maybe the pedersen trade can be good for both i could see him doing well in carolina i could in cockney emmy's gonna love vancouver he's got to be involved in the deal um i if you're trying to uh have a culture change here it can't have him so you can't take your real steps forward in this rebuild and it's going to be three to five years for vancouver

right montreal is the low end right there are three years you do it the right way it's three to five years you can't have petterson be a part of that i think they're gonna give it a try again for a bit under the sardines and i think they're well i think i know we all know they're prepared to move on jesse i think somebody in there in the nhl is going to convince themselves that a change of scenery will be good for him will they be right some assets for him i'm not sure like i i don't know if i can make that prediction on if he can turn his career around the skill is there like you know that he can be that player that he was in 2019 when he won the calder trophy and then in 2023 which isn't too long ago when he put up 102 points and nearly had 40 goals that

player exists in there and somebody's going to convince themselves that if we diminish his role and we don't make him as important on our team and we give him an easy spot and if we have a bunch of veterans around him where he doesn't have to have the burden of being any type of leader like there's a good player in there and somebody's gonna get value for him i believe like i'm looking at his top seasons so he had the 39 goal 102 point in 80 game season okay let's take that off the table 39 goals or sorry 34 goals and 89 points is that there okay what about 32 goals and 68 points what about somewhere between there yeah you can use that player totally you had 15 goals last year it was minus 30 that's why the buyout for pedersen is actually not too crazy because of all the

savings you get in the years where like the cap hit for you is like 2 million bucks and you actually save like 10 million dollars or whatever 8 million dollars or whatever it is on your actual cap it but i think like you shouldn't go that route now you somebody can convince themselves that there's a good player there and there's a decent reclamation project i think someone already did it it's carolina and who knows after this series they might be in a crazy mood uh yeah call them um uh sakaris and price uh great show out of vancouver had mike gillis on yesterday and there's a couple of great quotes from that one uh the one i would stood out to me was the the one that kind of played into the leafs which is it's not that i wouldn't do it when it came to taking the leafs

job but i don't really think that a really well constructed or that a really well constructed organization that guys like me should be on the front lines on a daily basis meaning he suggested that if there's no job like the shanahan job where i'm mentoring the younger gm i don't think that i'm at the age which is surprising i think he's 67 where i should be doing this every day which man a lot of canucks fans are like hey jimmy rutherford maybe uh should have taken a page out of that book i think that's valid and that's clever he's a clever guy because the rumor was that gillis was nearly offered the job and he pulled himself out of the process i have heard that gillis yeah i don't believe that to be true at all no you don't believe that to be true not

based on because that that's because i believe that's where the framing comes on his answer there so like i turned it down at some point in the interview process where i was coming down the last wire and i didn't believe that i could do the job i have a bone to pick with that yeah well tell us no no no we'll get to the the quote well that was the quote oh yeah no no he had a quote about erroneous reporting oh he said that the reporting was bad on yeah i mean like just paraphrase it uh he said the reporting was uh not always accurate in toronto which i mean reporting is never 100 accurate no but but what i usually i don't i don't think i don't think the reporting was quite that far off what i what i resent is seeing the response being like well that's that

take you i take you at 100 your word mike gillis because you would have no reason to fudge the truth guys grow up like get some media literacy what are we doing um mike is a brilliant guy i think he would have been a great hockey executive here i think he would have done a good job here he is an extraordinarily leaky ship um and uh it turned down the job no i don't think he's i don't think he's this well here's what i think i think he wanted the structure to be one way i think the least wanted it to be another that's what i think right and that's fair um and like good and then he didn't see himself fitting into that yeah good for him he's free as a bird he's free as a bird right like he doesn't have to take uh any job he's not 100

on board with but him framing it like well then i no thank you i think that's what happened i think that he said to them uh well i feel like this is the this is the role i'm comfortable with i don't want to be the frontline general manager every day and i believe well that's what we're hiring for because we're bringing sandin in what i believe happened is he was going for one job they went with chica and said okay what about this job and i don't know what that job is but after the leafs went with chica they're like now would you like this and he said no interesting so i i think he's telling a half truth well you know one of the things that the leaf should look into guys is an advisory committee like the way the panthers do and that would require spending money which

you know rogers is broke so they can't i'm kidding but they are writing uh larry tannenbaum like a three billion dollar 2.7 billion dollar check here in the next 30 days and they have like corporately have a lot of debt they're going to be able to service that debt it won't be a problem but they are going to have to get through the next four or five years servicing that debt because remember there was the shaw acquisition there's maple leaf sports and entertainment there's been a lot of buying. And at a certain point, the bill comes due, and you've got to be careful with that, hence the cutting of jobs. And that's not just Maple Leaf Sports. That's everywhere across Rogers. And so keep the stock price up. You've got to look like you're managing your debt, which they are.

And I think it's unfortunate. But when you look at some of the names that Florida has on that advisory panel, two of the names that stand out to me, Paul Fenton, who was objectively insane as a general manager, but has had some success. He was an insane quote. I miss Paul Fenton quotes. They were crazy. He called Matt Zuccarello like a lizard or something like that. He sticks his tongue out and grabs the puck. I'm like, wow, this is crazy. And Dale Tallon, who built the Chicago Blackhawks, built them.

Was not there for the Cubs, built them. Put that core together. Do you think it's any sort of joke or any, like, why do you think Bill Zito's front office is so effective? He surrounded himself by effective people. I think, you know, it's great that it's Sundin and Shaka. I want them to win. I'm dying for them to win.

I want Matt Sundin to go down as the greatest player exec in Toronto history. I would love that. I would die for that. It helps to have some people in the room like Mike Gillis who can contribute to that. And Mike said if Vancouver called him, he would do that role for them. He would consult for them. I think the Leafs would be in a better spot if Mike Gillis was involved. But I don't believe him when he says he turned down the job.

i do believe him when he says he turned down a job there you go and there's a difference right and sorry i didn't know that there was contention around like the way he spoke about it or the yeah that didn't bother me either that was i think that was mostly steve thing steve was fighting no that was just me steve just steve just raced over and said jesse god damn it jesse god don't you dare jesse i'm gonna sound like my grandfather when i say this but that sure is a smart top you're wearing a smart top it's true why is it a smart top i don't know why smart i guess it was their way of look saying yo yo guy that that's that looks super cool on you dog i don't cap i think uh we gotta update our language here ah okay well listen fabletics 70 to 80 off jesse

you're a vip there where did you get your smart top fabletics now why do you love about it you're talking about my t-shirt because it is a fablex t-shirt that's right it's um i was gonna say that they don't just have like they have a whole bunch of nice hoodies and everything and they have great sweats and all that but they also just have like really great basics like this is a fabulous black tee and you need just the black tees the white tees the gray tees for your wardrobe you just need every day you could throw on a black tee you don't have to think too much about your outfit pair it with some nice fablex jeans that they just came out with they have their new denim line as well and there's your outfit and you're good to go that is you know that's one of the things i

love about them i also love their joggers man i i wear the gray joggers all the time and here's the thing uh i can't wear them out because the quality is really really good uh so we want you to go to fabletics.com slash sdp to get 70 to 80 off everything when you sign up with a new as a new vip so take the style quiz which helps people like us like jesse's got some style but just steve and i are like so you know style quiz i like this helps us i think i'm styling i have lots of fabletics at home that's what i'm saying right and it's because you got the style quiz use the promo code sdp when prompted to unlock the offer so this is a limited time offer do not wait again the season switch over you want 70 to 80 off sign up at fabletics.com sdp for that 70 to 80 off

everything as a new vip two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer that's why every step and dollar raised matters on september 19th join thousands in toronto for the princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. Now, a couple of things in Edmonton. I'm going to start with the more likely one first, which is Bob Stauffer who is a guy that you should trust when he says something you ought to listen whether you like the answer or not you ought to listen uh there was a big conversation on uh on

his show about Conor Ingram and the fears around bringing Conor Ingram back at too high of a price now when you you guys don't get yet and I don't get yet and no one gets yet how expensive this summer in free agency is going to be yes it's going to be crazy like just wait and see logan logan stanley's contract's gonna blow you away gonna blow your it's gonna blow your mind i think it's gonna be like this is a door of deal brock besser resigning in vancouver might be the biggest financial mistake of his career and he's making 7.75 brock besser if he'd signed a two-year deal somewhere would be making 10 dude we just discussed how elias pedersen was minus 30 Brock Pester was minus 48.

Okay, maybe he didn't. Maybe that was right of him. So Connor Ingram not back with the Oilers says to me that the Oilers are going to make a trade here for a goalie because Jari, you don't have a choice. You're stuck with him.

So if Connor Ingram isn't back or they don't want to spend what it's going to take to bring him back, I thought Connor Ingram was really good for the Oilers, but some people don't. he made 1.95 million he's not gonna do that but can you put 10 million dollars in jari and ingram and feel like you're gonna win the stanley cup probably not uh wait you think connor ingram's

gonna make five mil i think he's well jari already makes 3.75 or something so connor ingram at four and a half dude jari makes more than that how much does he make 5.375 i was right i said 5.3 didn't i uh no you said you said three oh i meant 5.3 sorry but i thought i think ingram's gonna to make the difference of that what i mean is like four four four and a half again i'm telling you guys you don't we have not adjusted to what the new salary cap is going to bring he's oh boy i think he's like a premium third ingram stringer he's gonna be he's gonna be a platoon he's gonna be a platoon platoon yeah he is he's gonna play 35 40 games i guess okay okay okay here's here's where i'll go with

last year was weird for him because it was like a like a he rehabilitated his game right like uh he played in bakersfield for several months straight before even getting a sniff of nhl action maybe you're right i have a hard time picturing him getting a huge raise you know what i mean maybe three is the cap boy there's the cap and then there's just bending reality to your whim and i just don't i don't think he can command that okay i don't do you want what's best for your career or your pocket you know maybe they're one in the same right we all have different priorities absolutely i think this year ingram's got to make bank you're probably right and he's got the oilers against the wall unless they have a trade in mind because their goaltending is their weakest point

i'd sooner walk away well it sounds like that's what they might do yeah and so then the oilers will then have to make a trade i'll be curious to know who they would do right well sebastian could have gently used anthony stoller's interest them sebastian casa was the is the rumor or whatever detroit who's a 15th overall pick a couple years ago yeah and i thought that was dumb when i first heard it and then i looked at uh the detroit system pretty deep fascinating what's going on there well i would almost take their grand rapids tandem over their nhl tandem cam talbot at the world championships holy cow mixing a save buddy yeah it's actually nuts i saw him we saw him at the all-star game live in person what happened father time um

they have problems in net they have solutions in net i oh boy i guess you decided that a guy like trey augustine and they have another one down there in grand rapids have overtaken them or if they haven't overtaken them uh they're close enough that you know casa has value and you trade him for something that can help you win now i don't know but like the the rumor of second overall or not second overall that'd be great uh a second round pick for a guy you pick 15th then drafted for five years and didn't use yeah that's badass that management it's not great you got beef with john gibson gibson's fine he had a good first three months last year i thought he was a good pickup for them

um he was better than what they had brother march detroit march none of them were good even larkin coming back he but he was off an injury right then none of them were good it's the nhl yeah exactly okay um now the second thing at edmonton that i never thought i would see that i think you got to be stark raving mad to write comes out of the edmonton journal surprise surprise and it's by a fellow named jerry model jean and the quote or sorry the the the and I hope I hope I got his name right. The the headline is McDavid is everything to the Edmondson Oilers, except a good captain.

Now, I'm going to jump in and grab pieces. It's a long opinion piece, so I can't read the whole damn thing to you. But he write it from Toronto. McDavid is someone who leads by example more than his words. It's why any number of his highlight reel goals are infinitely more memorable than any interviews he's ever given. But there are two problems with that. One, the on ice example he sets

is simply unachievable for any of his other teammates. Unless McDavid's streaking into the enemy zone, carrying the puck and charging through four defenders by himself to score coast to coast, he has to dumb it down

for his linemates at least a little. And that can be a point of frustration to the point where he says things like in his latest year-end press conference, like everybody's just got to care, implying the obvious skill gap isn't the only difference on the Oilers roster, which brings up the second point. The only time McDavid says something memorable is when it's, sorry,

it's been when his team is doing poorly. He's always cautious to include himself in the criticism, of course, and he will never come out and say anything demeaning about anyone individually. He's always been a good team player in that regard. He's just not cut out to be the one leading the way. his body language one look at his body language will instantly betray how he feels uh when things are really whether things are really going whether it's a bad slump on the bench following a bad goal uh the thousand yard stare uh stare belaying his difficulty

processing a frustrating loss or the mumbling softly at a mic during post-game scrums mcdavid subtly wears it on his sleeve i think it's way harder to play in edmonton than draw way i'm i'm shocked anybody wrote this i'm shocked anyone thinks this i'm shocked it's no it's in the edmonton journal i don't respect it it's awful fair enough um it but it makes people worse um as a rag um it's fish wrap um that's a crazy thing to say after he signs the two times 12.5 million dollar deal to kick off the season it's not without some points right but here's what i'll say about uh leadership uh people are way too obsessed with the sea they're way too and that goes for austin that goes for any captain crosby mckinney market

Crosby's been Crosby's had guys around him McKinnon has guys around him and also is not captain which I keep forgetting because it's Landeskog right they haven't won the cup since Landeskog left and the closest uh they've been to getting it back is while he's back that's kind of interesting but you need to be surrounded by guys Gretzky who I don't think anyone in Edmonton ever retires anyone who's ever covered the oilers because half of these guys are like i remember the oilers and i'm like yo that guy was traded the year i was born and i'm 38 what do you mean you were an adult in person professionally covering the oilers when gretzky was there holy shit nobody retires nobody retires what do you that's crazy to me he was surrounded by guys

you know i was told in 2010 uh at the olympics i had the opportunity the silly opportunity um i got so many opportunities when i was younger and i just wish i was older when i got them because i wouldn't i would have done more with them but i got to interview yvonne cornway and serge savard at the same time cool for like 20 minutes it was insane um and they were like well we had like 14 captains i'm paraphrasing them but they did he actually mentions the late 70s canadians in it that gila fleur had a lot of people around him that were good leaders okay just well he had a lot of people around him which means he was bad at being captain or something what like mcdavid's got leon and those two are thick as thieves for a reason who outside

of the two of them is leading the charge there are guys who I think can do it guys who I want on my team like I think about a Zach Hyman who else is really doing their job in terms of leadership like is is Bouchard rallying the guys come on we got to play better defense is Darnell Nurse doing that on the back end he seems like he's more vocal seems like he's more vocal and then he goes out there and he is not very good not worth his contract right who else up front like nuge has been there for an eternity is it nuge adam henrik's been in the league for god knows how many years like ekholm ekholm i could yeah i could see that but like even if you have three or four guys it's not enough not at the tippy top not for a team that has the expectation

that the Oilers do and you're gonna you know we always get this whenever we talk about another team oh what about the Leafs what the team that loses all the time yeah case in point we know this better than you yeah we know this oh that's rich coming from I don't work for the team I'm well aware that they suck and they have very similar issues except they don't have Connor yeah i i don't i don't get that jesse what do you think i don't get that argument at all i haven't read the article i've only heard what you've you've read here and i've never heard of this person uh they sound like a lunatic uh if you're questioning whether mcdavid is a good captain or not you're starting from a wrong standpoint there are 800 and something nhl

players i am confident in saying that all 800 and something would be honored to be on a team with conor mcdavid and that he captains he got this team to within a goal of winning a stanley cup a stanley cup is very hard to win and he was right there to do it i think there's enough resume with his heart trophies and everything he's accomplished in this league that he is a good player and a lot of players respect him and he's a good captain and whether or not you take his media snippets and you think he's soft spoken to the media or not, does not result in a good player wearing a C or whatever he thinks this is. In the locker room, I'm sure everybody listens when McDavid is yelling. And we've seen him yell in the Amazon doc. He seems like he's very vocal

behind the scenes. And also, you don't have no idea. You have no idea what goes on in the dressing room. You have no idea what kind of leader he is to the actual people he needs to lead. And he led them to within a goal of the stanley cup so i think that's if you're looking for winning he was right there so he did it if it makes you feel any better that's not even the worst writer at the journal yeah well let's move on to the leaves so matthews it's it's seeming like is warming up to the plan in toronto but it's not done yet and they still haven't met with him yet and so you know firing berube i think was a big one on matthew's list i'm not gonna lie and having a first overall pick always helps too uh but it sounds like that and time that's yeah time yeah

he was probably pretty frustrated after that season um now one thing that i do think is really interesting is this matthew nye's conversation which is ongoing from overdrive darren dragger said i had a couple of teams say to me that john sheik is view on whether or not to trade matthew nye's is legitimately uh sorry whether or not matthew nye's is legitimately a piece they would part with seems to change from one day to the next but that's fine he's entitled to that if i were john i would say okay well unless somebody drops an offer on my table that actually makes me consider moving matthew nyes then the answer is no i'm not going to trade him and that makes sense i don't think they should be shopping him which is what it sounds like they were doing i think

i think tree was i think tree was shopping him and now it's a new guy and i don't think you should shop a player like matthew nyes who provides everything this team lacks like you traded or well no you let zach hyman walk which hindsight a you traded to be fair to us he was a career 21 goal scorer at that point i know we didn't know i didn't know but it's their job to know not ours maybe on that same level it started to break through though he had i remember suggesting hyman should be on the power play when it was a radical thing to say yeah because he used have stone hands yeah but he figured it out in his final time with the leafs and left and did not look back no he's been amazing and cadre and now you're gonna take this other guy with just

piston fists who's a very capable goal scorer probably a playmaker good skater huge probably appointed game player yeah he already was i think this good contract what are we doing yeah what are we doing punks guys that shit with nico he sure was awesome and then he also did that to um white cloud and pastor knock in the playoffs he's like go me then oh go me go yeah and then pastor next skates away he's like yeah that's what i thought yeah and i don't expect pasta to fight nice but it was still fun well because he was threatening another player that's why but but even like so white cloud tunes him up with the hit and then in the in the rematch game remember mike johnson was calling that game he was play by play he goes oh he's a lefty mike johnson found out at the same

time zach white cloud did why is he grabbing me with his right wham wham wham please please pry matthew nyes from my cold dead hands i want him to be a leaf for life jesse what are your thoughts on that yeah i think brad was shopping him because that was the only piece he had available that was like a game-changing piece that he could move because willie wasn't going anywhere with the no move matthews you can't trade him and nize is the only one without protection that would actually do a full shake up of the roster and you could get a boatload of assets for but chica coming in here he shouldn't start from the standpoint of i need to do a big thing to move everything so it doesn't make sense for him to be trading matthew nize this isn't a one-for-one comparison but to

me it's akin to the blackhawks trading brandon hagel like hey we stink so let's trade this really good tough young player except nize has a way better resume than hagel did brandon hagel did when he was traded like what do you shanee hadn't even heard of brandon hagel which is why the trade to Toronto got nixed ah so that's and I said you can pry Matthew Knives from my cold dead hands if it hadn't been returned as Brandon Hagel back consider me dead back then consider my hands dead and cold yeah absolutely okay uh so here's the thing the last thing we got to do is bring on Scott Wheeler we're going to talk a little bit of draft because there's been a lot of mess out there so let's bring them on two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer

that's why every step and dollar raised matters on september 19th join thousands in toronto for the princess margaret cancer foundation walk challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer register today at pmcfwalk.ca welcoming scott wheeler back to the steve dangle podcast scott it's been a while and i know you've been it's been a minute you've been on tour uh lately let's be honest as soon as the first overall pick was announced that it was going to toronto and also we have a third overall pick in vancouver uh you're pretty popular this time a year, but this is like, you know, this is sort of major. So I want to clear some things up when

it comes to drafting and this market, right? Because there is so much BS out there from a lot of people who self-stylize themselves or, well, Hey, I'm an insider, but now I'm a prospect insider and the two are not the same. Let's be honest. So tell us about the top five, because here's what i'm here's what i've deduced it's potentially dax and rudolph chase reed carson carrolls ivar stenberg and gavin mckenna are those your top five potential picks in this draft yeah give or take those are the five names that matter the most in terms of the very the conversations at the very top of the draft i think that carson carrolls and uh chase reed will be either one two the top two defensemen take and you're going to see those two wingers go in the

first three or four picks. And then Caleb Malhotra has emerged as the number one center in this class. It wasn't that way entering into this year. Tynan Lawrence was the presumptive number one center in this draft class. Heading into the year, he was coming off of a Clark Cup championship with the Muskegon Lumberjacks. He was the Clark Cup MVP. He had played really well for Team Canada at Holinka. And Caleb Malhotra was coming out of the BCHL and coming out of a weird season in the bchl with everything that was going on with that league and hadn't played well and was kind of viewed as like a second or third round pick and then caleb goes to brantford and is their best player into the playoffs and he stands out at chl usa prospects challenge in november and he was just

a stud for them all year and caleb is is the one from that group that has really played his way into that conversation i i wanted to talk about like prospects who you know kind of had some fanfare around them before their draft year how does someone rise and how does someone fall from their i i guess that would be two years before their draft year versus their draft year you went into it a little bit with malhotra but i mean in general well frankly i don't pay a ton of mind to that 16 year old season that 16 year old season is the hardest season that any hockey player has in their career the jump from minor hockey to the major junior level is a significant jump it's a life jump in terms of you're in a billet house for the first time you're moving away from home

in Caleb Malhotra's country or or sort of circumstance he moved across the country from Toronto to where Manny was previously coaching with the Leafs under Sheldon Keefe obviously back out west where he grew up a little bit so there's there's a lot there's a lot of mistakes that people make in in giving too much credence to that 16 year old season the kids are growing some of them are shooting up and having growing spurts they're they're still in high school there's just so much going around around them um the the other side of it the 17 year old season is is where where is what matters like you look back i could give you a laundry list of guys who've had breakout 17 year old seasons beckett seneca is obviously the most recent one um but

that matters certainly if you're if you're a shane wright if you're uh a brad lambert in finland and evar stenberg in sweden some of the some there are some players who break on at 14 15 years old gavin mckenna 14 15 years old people were watching him people were paying attention to him he had that extra year of of junior hockey in the whl and that is different than your run of the mill first round pick where i think you really have to remove the 16 year old season from it all together i don't i don't know why we're wasting time here is gavin mckenna in your opinion the right choice for the least at number one he is gavin has been first on five of six of my lists a spoiler for my upcoming final board my final top 100 he will be first again um gavin in saying that gavin is

imperfect and all of the criticisms that have sort of lingered around gavin throughout this season are very real i went to penn state michigan state in november to see him play in east lansing and coming out of that rink on both nights i was i went for drinks with some scouts and some agents on each of those nights and people at that time were carving gavin up like they were really really low that that period that sort of november early december before the world juniors he was getting torn up a little bit and deservedly so he wasn't playing well his effort off the puck was not nearly where it needed to be uh one hand on his stick reaching in soft in battles giving up on plays uh just like some ugly ugly bad habits and then he goes to the world juniors despite the

gaudy point totals at the world juniors people still hadn't come around on him like people were frustrated with some of those same things persisting at the world juniors obviously he isn't able to elevate team canada in the way that connor bedard did team canada goes out early that is a part of the conversation with gavin but into the second half things did start to change and he started to take over games he started to play 30 minutes a night for that penn state team they dealt with some injury troubles and he ended up with different line mates and things really really started i think he started to loosen up he started to get more comfortable at the level and things started to come and but the distinguishing factor between Gavin and everybody else in this class

Stenberg included is that Gavin has that sort of pull you out of your seat element if you're taking a player first overall you want them to have a special quality and he's the he's the player in this class that has a special quality he can pick you apart from the perimeter he will find the highlight reel that the playmaking sense the vision the touch on the puck we've all seen the the highlight reel goal that he scored in medicine hat where he's practically spinning around the ice and then goes barred down. Like he just has that, that ability. I think he gets beat up a little bit too much for his,

his sort of net negative that he is defensively. And I think that's going to persist. Like he's not going to be the two way winger. That's just not what he is. He's always going to give back a lot defensively, but so did Patrick Kane for much of his career and Nikita Kucherov for much of his career. And those are the names that you hear when people talk about what the true, true ceiling, not saying he's going to be those guys. Those guys are two of the all-time great NHL history, first ballot Hall of Famers, legend level wingers. But that's the carrot at the end of the stick. And Stenberg just doesn't have that. None of these D have that.

and so that's what you're reaching for if you're reaching for gavin is is the what if of just how magical and tantalizing the offensive side of his his playmaking is now one of the things that i think we got to do in toronto is temper expectations if if that is in fact their pick and you know they put that teaser video out yesterday uh on their social media scott is involved in yeah scott you're in that there you go buddy um and and uh you know they talk about you know you talk about the get out of your seat stuff one of the things that I think people forget you know when you look at the season that Macklin Celebrini had and like elite prospects was saying he's one of the best prospects they'd ever followed ever and he jumped into the league

and was very very good in his first year on a bad team he was outrageously good this year what are the jump into the league parameters we need to put around a guy like Gavin McKenna whether it's the Leafs or it's somebody else it looks like it's going to be the Leafs and God bless him I hope it is uh what do we really what can we really expect from his step into the NHL Scott because people forget this too you know Nylander was a 67 point guy Marner was like a 60 something point guy Matthews had 40 goals yes but I think he only had 20 assists like it takes a bit to get there so if he only puts up 50 points next year uh should leaf fans be pumped about that disappointed in that what do you expect 50 points would be a very successful rookie season for gavin

mckenna i i think he's going to have a tough time i from a from a pure nhl readiness standpoint evar stenberg i think is on day one of puck drop of next season they're both going to be in the nhl on day one I think Stenberg is going to be readier for that opportunity that doesn't mean he's the right pick but from a from a readiness standpoint he's just harder on pucks there there there he's not going to get exposed quite as often Gavin's going to have some tough nights he's going to have some nights where you see him on the perimeter of like the ice all game where he isn't able to manufacture offense I think back to kind of that rookie season that Jack Hughes had a little bit where Jack I think had like 29 points as a rookie in the NHL I think Gavin's in a bit if he's

entering into Toronto he's going to be in a better position than Jack Hughes was entering into those New Jersey Devils right he's going to be on a power play with Austin Matthews and William Nylander and he's going to get his cookies on the power play for as much as he gets beat up at five on five I think we often actually devalue how valuable it is to have people who can play on PP1 and the value that Gavin McKenna even if he disappears at times at five on five will provide to your power play is very very real and that matters in slotting him side by side these other players um so that like if he's playing with any combination of matthew nyes john taveras william nylander austin matthews let's say two of those guys are his line mate he's playing in a top

six role on day one of next season that will help him create because he's going to make plays for those guys he's going to put the puck in their hands he's going to have moments in every game where he has a little dash and make something happen and then on the power play he's going to make it as i think a significant difference on the leafs power play in terms of just the vision and the playmaking and sort of filling that that mitch marner role so uh that recently like if i'm giving a an over under if i'm setting the betting line it's probably i don't know 39.5 like i think 40 would probably be that sort of middle ground uh but there's there's room for things to click for him and for him to pop and i think there's room where he ends up in a bit of a matvey mitchkov

of situation where he might seem to get healthy scratch for a game or see his minutes reduced in some games and late in games he's not going to be on the ice and that's going to be a part of the conversation and it's going to be incumbent on whoever the Leafs hire as their head coach to manage some of the noise that's going to inevitably come around him as a rookie in his rookie season if he's the pick like that that managing that and managing negative attitudes from fans when he has five or six really bad games in a row and which will happen which will which will happen that that's going to be it's always a part of the conversation in Toronto and it's going to be a big part of it with Gavin because I think those first two or three years

are going to be a real learning experience for him and the argument to not take McKenna is that with the defenseman there that you had in the top five there might be a little bit more organizational upside to getting a really good puck moving defenseman are you do you see that argument and that maybe the Leafs should just draft for more of a positional lead if they can get one of these really high end defensemen? And do you have those defensemen being at that level of D that you have McKenna at that level of forward one day in the NHL? I see the argument. Look, we've all we're all from the city. We've all watched this team our whole lives. That's the thing that they've been missing, right? It's easy to point at the history

of the Leafs. And you really have to go all the way back to Boria Salming to find that guy. I don't think you necessarily chase that guy because that history is there, though. And I don't think that any of the defensemen in this draft class, and they're all studs like Daxon Rudolph, Albert Smits, Carson Carls. I'm lower on Keaton Verhoff. I don't really view Verhoff in that light. But Chase Reed, they are high-end deep prospects. They are not Kael McCarr, Quinn Hughes, Matthew Schaefer, Rasmus Dahlin. And those are the type of players that I think you can feel comfortable taking at number one in a draft. I don't view any of the defensemen in this class as guys that I would be excited to come away from a season like this, if you're the Leafs, and winning the lottery and saying

this is the piece that we've added. I think they're all going to be very good players. but i think you're talking more in terms of upside i think you're talking more about the sort of owen power erin ekblad moritz cider like those are that's the tier that's the caliber of defenseman that you're hoping to get now those are those are great with the exception of with the exception of owen power those have all been number one 25 minute and i more cider in particular um i mean cider was on more norris ballots this year right but is is that more valuable is that caliber of defenseman that isn't going to rise to the true true norris winners tier is that caliber

of defenseman more valuable than the point per game star winger and that's the calculus in this draft class and i've come back to the star winger i i just think that in stenberg and in mckenna those are the two premium guys to me in this in this group the other thing is that you know you look at a guy like jackson lacombe it's taken him six years right like it does take a while for defenseman to get there and so and i do think that's a big part of the conversation if you're the leafs like if you have to sell austin matthews on staying and and that's a part of this and and you want him to sign that next contract and retire a maple leaf and and be an all-time great for you and it to be a positive story instead of a he he left another guy left story the next two years

are critical in that and having a stenberg or a mckenna that will be playing with him and him being able to see what they might look like is is huge and chase reed's going to be playing in college hockey next year he probably should play two years in college hockey carson carrolls is now going to north dakota will likely spend two years at north dakota uh albert smiths is the closest but he isn't in the conversation at number one caleb malhotra is going to be you and will likely spend two years at bu like it's just a different timeline for those guys and then on top of it the d get into the league and they they have to eat shit early on yeah they do you look at the young d in the league other than matthew shaffer this year right zeve boyum struggled or

had to be sheltered sam dickinson struggled or had to be sheltered zane perak struggled or had to be sheltered arty lebshuna basically learning how to play hockey still and needs boot camps during the breaks simon nemich still figuring it out these were top five d picks these were guys who are viewed in the same light as some of the defensemen in this draft class and it and three or four years later they still are figuring it out or just getting into the league so i think that is a part of it is if your time if you're if you're if you care that austin matthews is 29 and william nylander is 30 then i think it matters that those wingers are going to be playing for you the next two years how fascinating has it been for you that for major junior players uh

division one college is now an option here because you're talking about guys who could potentially be going as high as third overall, maybe even second overall, taking another two years. And that's just not common, right? I remember JVR going second overall, I think it was 2007. He plays his full term or whatever it was at college, and it was kind of unheard of at the time. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this, and I'm wondering if you are too. It's definitely a change in the timeline. The opening up of college eligibility to these top kids who can play major junior in Canada and then make the jump has sort of shifted perceptions.

It used to be you sign your ELC right away. If you're a top kid in the CHL, you sign your ELC right away. You maybe go back for one year and then at 19, you expect because you cannot play in the AHL. And that is also changing here, which adds another ripple. There are some kids who are going to choose the CHL to AHL path and spend a year in the ahl with the new rule that's going to be implemented next year allowing for 19 year olds to one 19 year old per team to play in the ahl um but it used to be you sign you you spend one more

year in junior and then you make the jump and a lot of those kids struggled at 19 to play in the nhl including it's obviously hard for defensemen but including forwards and now you just college get you get you get first of all you get paid second of all you get the experience of going to a major campus in the united states and if you guys have been to any of these these ranks these facilities the campus the atmosphere you're a rock star there it's it's the time of your life junior hockey is a lot of fun college hockey is more fun and i think that's a part of it for the kids now it's still not going to be for everyone there are still kids who don't have the grades who aren't interested in in going back to school who just want to play pro hockey kids are still

going to make that that that take that route we saw jake o'brien a top 10 pick this year sign braden kuth signed instead of going to college route all these guys had options and they chose the nhl the typical nhl pat but it has certainly changed it and i think it it's it's it's the year it's the draft year where it's really interesting because there were guinea pigs this year right keaton verhoff in his draft year tynan lawrence in his draft year and they i think both those players that actually hurt their stocks because it was hard for them because college hockey at 17 was hard for them and yet they're probably even if they get drafted a little bit lower they're probably better off in the long term than having played in the ushl or played in the whl and lit

it up right so and gavin too frankly i think gavin yeah if if he plays in medicine hat they win another whl title over everett in all likelihood they're probably back in the memorial cup this week he gets probably 150 points 150 regular season points 35 playoff points and there would have been questions about why he didn't go to college but the nitpicking wouldn't have been as loud i think as it was and his flaws wouldn't have been revealed sort of as loudly as they were in college i want to talk about the rest of the draft class scott because um you know there are some great players on the board and you've mentioned them so ivar stenberg let's just let's just forget the organizations that these players might go to and what their organizational needs

might be because i don't know that the the san jose sharks need another uh forward i'm sure they could use one and potentially flip one for that big defenseman they're probably looking for but But the point is, let's just talk about pure rankings without any of that. Ivar Stenberg, what kind of player does he feel like to you? Because if I'm driving to work right now and I don't have a chance to watch SHL highlights, I don't maybe know that he's been playing against men all year, that he's got some really good habits that people like. He's got some size and that sort of thing.

What are you getting with this guy and what does he top out at? Stenberg is a horse. I think Stenberg's going to be a point-per-game winger in the league, a first-line guy, a star on the team, one of the better Swedes in the NHL. He's going to play at Olympics. I think that's the caliber of talent that we're talking about. Had a better year than recent top three picks in Leo Carlson, who's one of the best young players in the world, and Anton Freundel, who obviously just broke in and had immediate success with the Chicago Blackhawks down the stretch this year. he had an all-time great season like we're talking sadeen level forsberg level nasland level season in in the shl um before that at the junior level every time he's played internationally world junior i thought he was better than mckenna at the world juniors this year um like he's he's a stud he compares himself to tim stutzle he doesn't skate like tim like tim has always been a high high-end skater ivar's a good skater but he doesn't have that sort of explosive

pull away gear uh but very direct skilled and the big difference between him and gavin is just how hard he is on pucks he's he's not a big like he's 5 11 and 190 but he's a really strong kid he's really strong on his stick he gets up and under sticks he he steals pucks uh and he holds pucks through contact in ways that gavin doesn't so i think that the the skill grades in terms of that play making sense that the feel and the offensive zone they're all high end they're not world class like they are with Gavin, but he closes that gap because of how hard he is on pucks because of the way it's going to translate. There's a, there's a lot to like, and he's now doing it at men's worlds, obviously like he's, he's a legit, legit top of the draft caliber player.

Carson Carrolls. Carrolls is an unbelievable skater. He's the most physical of those sort of big five defensemen. uh like he's just got some bite to him some jam to him some firmness to his game on and off the puck he had high-end high-end offense in the whl this year but i don't necessarily view him as a premium sort of skill guy is he capable of running an nhl power play absolutely can he rip the puck absolutely i don't think he's despite the production being on par i don't think he's as talented as a chase reed or a dax and rudolph for example uh the belief in carol's is just the skating and the hardness is going to make him potentially the most well-rounded of the defenseman

um you hear names like sort of ryan mcdonough uh tossed around about him and that that kind of player that the maybe not quite shea weber but that that's kind of what you're what you're imagining if he gets really really big um and yeah he he's he's a stud like he's he can he's going to likely penalty kill in ways that some of those other guys aren't like he's he's kind of the full package and the i wrote a feature on him at the athletic earlier this year but the backstory there is really interesting he's a farm boy and he's kind of that western canadian rural upbringing and scouts and gms are going to love that in the combine process here in the next couple of weeks and there's just a lot to like very likable player uh you mentioned left shot left shot instead of a

righty a couple of those other guys are righty well he's gonna fall second rounder yeah just hey man if lilligren's getting 3.25 these days uh dax and rudolph you mentioned him what do we need to know yeah yeah i mean rudolph was unbelievable this year for prince albert obviously they go to the whl final and lose to everett he was tremendous in the playoff run arguably the whl playoff mvp big kid doesn't have the skating that a reed or or carls have like he the skating just isn't quite as fluid, but the offense has really made some high end plays this year. He's got size,

really smart kid by all accounts, great off the ice and all of that. He's, he's a very, very, very good player, more of an offensive tilt than a, than a sort of hard nose defender,

like a Carol's or a Smith's sort of could be, but the offense is real. Chase Reed. Oh, sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. He's a six, three righty,

which doesn't hurt. So Chase Reed. excellent skater big shot offensive inclinations likes to jump likes to be below the dots makes plays the defending was a talking point when he first made the jump a year ago from the nhl from the null he was cut in his 16 year old season just to go back to what that 16 year old season actually means he was cut by his ushl team in his 16 year old season ends up in the null uh andrew gibson a top defenseman for the sioux greyhounds goes to the world juniors at christmas time the sioux greyhounds need a defenseman they call up chase reed he comes in he plays 25 to 30

minutes a night for them as as a 16 year old down the stretch and then he returns this year and he's one of the best defensemen in the ohl late bloomer he's an older kid in this draft class right shot the skating and the shot are high high end like he's an excellent excellent skater um the defending has really come though and and he surprised some people when he was voted the second best defensive defender in the ohl coaches poll this season in his conference uh that was a big deal for him just to show this year that on top of the offense that the defending is legit i think a lot of that comes down to the skating he doesn't have the hardness of a smiths or or a carls uh but the offense is viewed as sort of more projectable and higher end and he's viewed as the premium offensive type in

this draft class in saying that like he didn't produce like a zane perrec or a brant clark or ryan ellis did at the ohl level like he wasn't an all-time point producer but the belief in the skill level in the skating in the shot is that it it will come that's such a good pull ryan ellis was great oh he was ryan ellis was one of the all-time great chl defensemen two more to ask you about uh uh caleb mahaltra uh top center in the draft we think yes yeah he'll be the first defenseman pick could go as high as third overall to the vancouver canucks who i know love him here as someone who has made this mistake before he's a center you did say defenseman by accident i was like wait a second that's okay so yeah you say top center you think he's going to the canucks

i think there's a very real chance he goes to the canucks i know that i was getting texts from scouts all year saying that Patrick Alvin's obviously no longer with the team but Alvin's here again Alvin's here again Alvin's here again and the belief amongst people I've spoken to around the OHL and around the NHL rival scouts agents that kind of a thing is that if it wasn't McKenna that Malhotra was number one on the Canucks board I think he's probably available to them at three the ripple effect there is Manny if they hire Manny I have heard and this isn't strongly sourced but i have heard that he he is reluctant uh to coach caleb sure uh so that that could be that could be a part of the conversation that that enters the fold and then obviously

everything i was hearing about them falling in love with caleb was prefaced around patrick alveen and you've now got the sedins and new management in ryan johnson so i i do think there's a chance it's not mal holtra at three but i know that for much of this year mal holtra was was very, very high on the Canucks board. Last one, and this is a personal favorite because I saw him so much at the Olympics. Albert Smits, enormous man from Latvia. And like a typical Latvian, name ends with an S.

And so tell me about Albert Smits because this guy played really, really well for a surprisingly good Latvian team at the Olympics. Yeah, and was good for them at the World Juniors. He's now currently playing at Men's Worlds. he was excellent it both at the junior level in Finland and at the pro level in Finland and then did the Moritz Seider jump and went to the DEL for the playoffs when his Finnish Liga team missed the Liga playoffs he went and continued his season by playing in Munich in the DEL playoffs where he

was also very good there are some lines I think to draw between him and Moritz Seider frankly very talented kid I think that's been underrated like he played with his food at the junior level in finland this year and was outstanding there uh made some really really high-end puck on a string skill plays there circling the offensive zone beating three or four guys we saw less of that at the pro level where he had to play a pro style game and pull back on the reins a little bit but super athletic great skater physical i don't think he's as smart as the other defenseman like he makes there's there's some hiccups it's a lot of instinct more than sort of really processing the game and thinking the game through uh but i'm a big fan like he's he's my my second ranked

defenseman right now has kind of been second or third amongst the d in this class uh and i think after chase reed he's he's right in that that met that mix with carson carls at the very top of the draft um and he's another one he's the he's the he's the closest of the d to playing like he could play conceivably nhl games next year and if he's not playing nhl games next year i expect him to be in the AHL and be a stud in the AHL so a bit of a different timeline for him than the junior so you might get more out of him earlier now

Scott I just want to say thank you so much for your time and I think to wrap I have to ask you about the most important player in the draft because I think they have the most interesting story in the draft you just did a feature on Jackson cover and he grew up playing hockey without ice and people

if you haven't read the story yet in the athletic you need to go read it but Scott tell us about him tell us about why people should go read this feature and where he's going to go on the draft and why everybody should be looking out for jackson being drafted uh in the next month yeah i appreciate you giving me an opportunity to highlight him jackson's the story of the draft for me the ruck twins are another sort of great story and great layer and ripple in this class but jackson is is i mean the story is incredible he he's from grand cayman uh his father is grand or no, mother is from Grand Cayman, born and raised. His father's from Etobicoke. They met

at college in the United States, got married quickly after school and moved back to Grand Cayman. Grand Cayman is a huge banking center. He's got a degree in finance. And so he worked at the Canadian, worked at the CIBC, and he's worked at the CIBC branch on the island for decades. Wasn't a hockey player himself, but played a lot of floor hockey. And so what does the guy from Etobicoke who's played some floor hockey do he starts a roller hockey league sort of team if you will at the local gym and they had kind of a patchwork set up where they set up and three nights a week they hosted kids on the island they had about a hundred kids in their program who learned to play roller hockey on Grand Cayman Jackson was one of them Jackson with his

dad being in highly involved was obviously on rollerblades all the time and he became not just a a good player in a group of kids on grand kind grand cayman roller hockey player but started traveling to what is called narch which is a pretty serious uh sort of semi-professional level um of roller hockey across the united states and some places where ice hockey isn't prominent and became like as a teenager became a star and sort of semi-pro roller hockey uh started playing hockey by coming up to what's called hockey opportunity camp which you guys are probably familiar with in cottage country here in ontario uh but one week he played one week a year of ice hockey at each summer at this sort of hockey opportunity camp in ontario uh and then started

playing hockey in the pandemic so didn't play organized hockey until he arrived in canada he attended saint andrews college in aurora which is the town i'm i'm i'm born and raised in uh attended sac first year what they was all locked down so he got to get out on the ice at sac and and sort fool around but didn't actually get to play organized hockey and then played a couple of years of double a for the aurora tigers and then triple a and then got drafted and now he's playing junior hockey uh in his fourth year of hockey he's playing in the ohl and of his life like very very talented very very talented because of all the roller hockey those kids that play roller hockey all have nasty hands so the one-on-one puck skill is like high high high end

he's still very much learning the game and the team game and how to make his line mates better and so not that he's selfish but that's just kind of the way that they play in roller hockey and i don't think he maybe reads it all that well the skating is also a little unconventional like he looks like he's on rollerblades out there if you can visualize what that stride looks like it's just a bit of a different sort of awkward stride but the skill is legit and on a bit of a rebounding weaker than usual london knights team this year he was he was their most dangerous offensive player most nights so going to penn state which is mckinnon's uh or mckenna's alma mater obviously now and uh i'll be interested to see what his where his sort of journey takes him but he's got

size he's 6-1 he's 190 and the puck skill is is what's interesting where's he gonna go in the draft like are we talking second round second round that's still crazy joe joe mullen uh was once the highest scoring american player of all time until medano beat him and he didn't he didn't try hockey till he was 12 there are some people that just have it right like and it's and this seems like one of those guys yeah so what you're saying is nhl team should run for cover well i i got it i got a great coverage uh the first comment on my story as a great coverage so that you'll enjoy that yeah yeah so yeah i'll be looking out for that day two of the draft it's gonna be a lot of fun uh scott we're gonna talk we're gonna catch up

with you after uh the scouting combine to see if anything's changed and scott does reserve the right to change his mind there's like a dozen guys i still want to we could keep going this could be the whole show absolutely but sorry scott so you've been so gracious with your time today we really genuinely appreciate it yeah my pleasure guys and to your point off the top of the show uh to quote uh my colleague at the canadian press josh clipperton who i'm sure some of you know yes a lot of riff a lot of riffraff happening in toronto right now around the draft and uh there's always sort of experts coming out of the woodworks this time of the year but uh i appreciate you guys having me on because it's louder than normal the the noise around these

kids with it being toronto picking number one that's why we read scott scott wheeler at the athletics so check him out avoid the riffraff that should be his that should literally be his call him avoid the rip rap or something else we can workshop that scott thanks so much and we'll see you in a couple weeks the steve dangle podcast follow the guys on twitter at steve underscore dangle at adam w y l d e and at jesse blake connection complete