The Steve Dangle Podcast - Ron MacLean | October 3, 2017

Episode Date: October 3, 2017

On this episode, RON MACLEAN IN STUDIO HOLY WOW OMG GUYS (0:00), Ron's upbringing (4:00), Ron was a Top 40 DJ just like Adam (10:30), how did Ron end up on HNIC (14:30), explain Gary Bettman to us Ron (28:30), Trump, kneeling, & the social / political aspects of hockey (34:00), why don't you use Twitter more (45:00), the upcoming season, what storylines are looking forward to? (49:00), Lou, Bab, & Shanny stories (54:00), TELL US ABOUT DON, RON (59:00), that one photo of you topless on a bar (1:03:00), the boys and Ron open Tim Hortons hockey cards! (1:13:30), that one time Strombo hosted HNIC (1:19:00), and thoughts on the Leafs cup potential and around the NHL (1:26:00). Originally aired: October 3, 2017 Follow us on Twitter: Steve Dangle: @Steve_Dangle Adam Wylde: @AdamWylde Jesse Blake: @JesseBlake Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Panago Pizza presents S.D.P. The Steve Dangle Podcast with your hosts, Steve Dangle and Adam Wilde. Ladies and gentlemen, we are proud to present the one and only Ron McClain. There he is. He's there. He's in the room. He's in front of us. Adam, you and I are old friends, but Jesse, who saved me from exile in the lobby, I was downstairs for about a half an hour, and Steve, it's really nice to meet you. It's good to finally meet you. I can't believe this is the first time the two of you have met,

considering you're technically co-workers, right? For a few years now. I mean, I know your home base is Oshawa. Steve was explaining what a shy guy he is, and that's hard for me. It's like Don Cherry, though. Don is actually a shy guy, and it wouldn't go out of his way to meet someone or foist himself on someone if his life depended on it. And Steve was telling me how at the CBC he used to stroll by all the time

and had no real reason to say hello, so he didn't. did he did he also tell you that he has trouble ordering in restaurants because he's so shy yeah he actually didn't tell me that yeah he's the first person i've ever met that is terrified to ask a waitress for a glass of water or uh i'm not afraid or terrified to ask the waiter hey is my pizza ready yet like we've actually which i wouldn't do either and i'm the same way i i definitely deferential and uh you know look the whole secret of life is to put yourself in the shoes of the other that's the that's the basic mantra of what makes you happy in life is if you think of the other instead of yourself so good for you yeah yeah yeah i'm like right adam

you know how i know that ron mcclain you know what i i think you should put that on a t-shirt man honestly that's a good quote right there ron mcclain said so absolutely because ron mcclain stone cold uh skull and 316 and all the wwf stuff you watch wrestling ron i did as a kid i was a devotee so it's a whole different racket right it didn't have the spectacle but i absolutely adored stampede wrestling and one of my favorite memories of my childhood is uh going down in halifax wasn't in alberta where i grew up i was in halifax at the forum and i went to see a wrestling show and archie the stomper gould was wrestling there and i adored the stomper so i had an autograph little autograph book with gordy howe bobby hall and pat stapleton those were the three autographs that i

had and i went down to meet my hero the stomper who was a bad guy right and i walked up to the turnbuckle at the corner and i presented my autograph book and he shredded it my my dad was absolutely livid he wanted to see a manager he didn't know who he wanted to see because we'd never been together to wrestling i used to go all the time to the creative arts center in red deer uh but so dad was upset i said no dad you don't understand i wanted that i love it's like you know if don cherry tells you to go screw it's a compliment right you know that's the guy you see on tv that you want so i was i was must have been 13 years old when that happened and uh but He tore up your Gordie Howe autograph.

I lost all my, well, my three autographs. And honestly, I don't collect anymore. Maybe I realized another lesson in life, impermanence. Whatever you have, nothing's going to last, high or low. You're only to go the other way. So I was happy to see it in tatters. It really was a moment. And he, so I love the Harts, you know, Bret Hart, of course, is a friend.

I consider him a friend. But his father, Stu, and my broadcasting mentor, really, was a guy named Ed Whalen in Calgary who did Stampede Wrestling. In the meantime and in between time, that's Stampede Wrestling. I was spellbound by the wrestlers. I don't know if it was the theatrics. I mean, when I grew up, all the TV shows were Gilligan and Skipper, Archie Bunker and Meathead.

Every show was based around a hero who was actually the fall guy, the fool. Hogan's Heroes, Beverly Hillbillies, everybody that was bewitched. I dream of Jeannie a little bit. She was hot and stayed that way. Most of them were put in their place quickly on the show. And that's what I loved about wrestling. It was, you know, that tongue-in-cheek element to it. So I always have felt that was sort of why Coach's Corner worked,

is that we, certainly Don and I didn't sit down and say, you know, you be Archie Bunker, you be Meathead. But our sensibility, our willingness to mock ourselves or to be extreme, you know, to the point of almost slapstick, it was there, and it's probably on account of our, or in my case, my love of wrestling. and it dawns his love of hollywood wow wow that's not the answer i was expecting when i asked you absolutely fantastic ron i you know the way we wanted to to set up the show and the reason i'm saying this now is so anybody listening you know understands that you know we're going to talk

about you i want to talk about your background a little bit because it's something that you know we hear bits and pieces of but i think is really fascinating when you actually dive into it and then i want to talk about some of the the issues that are happening today like obviously we have some news on loophole and hosa hockey hockey starts tomorrow we got things to talk about but you are an air force brat so you were born in germany my father was actually stationed in metz france adam and i was breached does everybody know what that means i was backwards in the womb i don't know what it means even but somehow i was coming out wrong uh and so that meant uh forceps or cesarean or some kind of a procedure to deal with this uh birth and the hospital at the basin

and Zweibruck in Germany had far superior facilities. So they took mom out of Metz, France. She was 48 hours in labor. Brought her to Zweibruck in Germany, just across the border, and that's where I was born. But we were stationed overseas, moved back to Canada, and then hopscotched the country for the better part of 12 years. So it was Nova Scotia, Yukon, and then settled in Alberta.

B.C. Victoria, yeah, so came first to Nova Scotia from Metz, France, then out to Victoria for, I think, two years, then up to Whitehorse for five. Whitehorse Yukon for five was the beginning of my love of hockey. Then back to Nova Scotia, then out to Alberta for good. Dad took us his final transfer, Edmonton, and found work in Red Deer, Alberta. But that, again, I was an only child, and I was an Air Force brat. These are all things that contribute, whether you know it or not, to your career,

your sort of sense of the egalitarian approach to things, the understanding we're all the same. You know, we know you learn quickly that we're all very parochial. Well, if you know you're a Maritimer, you think that's best. If you're an Albertan, that's best, etc. But you quickly realize that everybody's laying claim to being the best, but they're all the same in that. It's it's it's the age of folly. Do you think that moving around that much at a young age and and not just moving around aimlessly, it was moving around within this country.

There are very few people I find in broadcasting in this country that can really get a grip on what Canada is. and I'm not blowing smoke here Ron when I say I think you're one of them. I think you're one of the ones that articulately puts together what Canada is and can find the common ground because every piece of this country is so different and do you think moving around at an early age contributed to that? Well I think it helps your compassion as I said. I think it gives you a sense of for me there's no black and white I think I gained that a little bit but I honestly think Adam it's more through

a combination of my parenting mom and dad my mom was just uh both of them i think they both were air force right so they had learned that and i think i uh by osmosis got that sense uh right from the get-go through them and then all my friends you know i i had friends who were nomads so you when you're young and you're transferred it's extremely traumatic uh you've built up a little network of hockey buddies of school buddies of neighborhood buddies and then it's taken away from you time and again so you have to rebuild and again that's that lesson of impermanence you quickly discover that whatever you think you have it won't last so you'd best be ready to adapt and to use i always tried to use uh whatever i had gleaned from some other place to you know help me

reach out in the new place but boy i had some lonely especially when we left the military when i was 12 years old and i you know usually you move to a base an air force base where there were a lot of like-minded folks and they were all quickly welcoming you into their little cocoon but i didn't have that when we left the air force i moved to red deer alberta my hometown which i consider you know my hometown and uh i knew no one for that summer and i can remember the loneliness was just god awful so it took getting back to school to meet some people and kind of set me back on but you know we it is good to move around it is good to sort of uh get out of your sphere of influences. That's kind of, and we won't drift off on this, but that's where the world's

in trouble right now is that we live in our social media with like-minded usually followers and people we follow. So we kind of have that one point of view embedded and encouraged over and over again. And then we have all the media outlets are kind of tailored to a specific political slant or a sports slant and you go to them. So without moving outside your, and the communities in our country are all set up, the rich live here the poor over here this ethnic group over here and so on and rarely do we kind of cross-pollinate and cross-pollination is really dangerous when it's tried politically it didn't

work for communism it didn't work million examples and certainly ethnic cleansing is the worst example of uh but you need to get out of your own uh point of view and be exposed to other ways of thinking uh and at least moving forces that on you listening good thing listening yeah You really learn. Steve, are you here? It's really nice to meet you. I'm just listening. This is the challenge I have when we have guests on,

is Adam is a very good interviewer. And we usually invite on very good talkers. And I just, I love watching interviews. So I find myself just watching. I'm like, yes, totally. And obviously if you're listening, or at least for me, it's hard to think of the next question, right? You know, unless you force yourself to concentrate on your question,

it's gone, right? And it's okay, but you just, I always have that nagging, crap, what was it I wanted to ask? I knew there was something I wanted to ask, and I ended up following the ball, which is a better thing to do, of course. Well, so we talked about like your early life experiences moving around the country and everything, but with hometown hockey, do you feel like you've almost had a chance to like rediscover the country? Totally. I think everything, you always find this, I don't know how you guys feel, but you always find that your life seems to have set you on a path, whether you knew it or not. So, being a traveler was great preparation for the Rogers Hometown Hockey Series. Being an only child forced me to appreciate, I see so many people at the sites, so many special needs folks who come up and stay in the bitterest cold just to be a part of something that they feel connected to, which is Tara and me and the show.

And I understood that because I was lonely. I was an only child. So, I was inadvertently always preparing for my career. And then even a silly example, when I started out in the business, I was a DJ. I wasn't going to be a journalist or a sports broadcaster. I was going to be a DJ. Were you a Top 40 DJ? I was a Top 40 DJ.

Well, we were no kiss. We were adult contemporary. So we played Middle of the Road, we called it. First song I ever played was Flugelhorn, Chuck Mangione, Feels So Good. Great song, but it was hardly Top 40. However, we played Casey Kasem's American Top 40. every saturday nine to noon and i ran that show and i'll tell you a story about that in a bit but what i was going to say is uh when you started a song a song has a bit of music could be four

seconds long could be 44 seconds long and the dj of the day the 70s dj wanted to hit what we call the post or the fade you had to talk right to the moment the vocals begin still do yes and still you know it's come back it actually fell out of fashion for a little bit but now it's back So I learned mentally without thinking about it what four seconds feels like and what 44 seconds feels like to create, to edit on the fly. And that's a really good television tool. And I wasn't thinking that way. But, you know, nowadays when somebody's giving me the 15, 14, 13,

it feels very comfortable because I spent my life DJing following that kind of a lead. So, you know, that's what it is. Were you, what was your, like, was your on-air name Ron McLean? Yeah, just basic Ron McLean. And I remember my first break, Adam, you probably do too. So you have a digital clock up here on the wall. They were new, believe it or not, back in the late 70s, digital clocks. A little bit fancy, yeah.

Yeah, so I remember I was going to do my first on-air bit. And I played, I said, Chuck Mangione. And the second song was Billy Joel, Moving Out. Good song. Yeah, so the newscaster finishes the news. I was only going to do one hour on a Sunday morning at 11 o'clock. I had done a little bit of late night, overnight stuff, but this was going to be the first time on AM radio in Red Deer, Alberta, population 50,000, and I imagine 50 million. So I was going to be on 11.05, the newscaster says, and now back to more music with Ron McLean on the music wave, CKRD.

So then I played Chuck Mangione, which I chose to try and settle my heart. It was kind of like Grover Washington Jr., just the two of us, one of those kinds of songs. and then i played billy joel which is a little more upbeat so i'm practicing uh it's 11 09 on ckrd and i'm ron mclean and that's billy joel's moving out ckrd with ron mclean and billy joel 11 09 and i'm doing it over and over again you know with the microphone not on yet and finally i flip the microphone on and i look up at the clock and i say it's 11 0 10 no i had done 1108 1109 and as fate would have it my first words were a screw up were your parents listening oh god dad was so great mom mom bless her heart they're both gone

now but mom was uh she should have been in broadcasting she was a real artisan and a incredibly quick uh but she you know she dreaded it uh she she criticized me when i played hockey she criticized me as a broadcaster she was a tough critic we have something in common then And my dad was the other way, you know, so thank God, so unconditional love from dad who would, I would walk home and eventually I became, after grade 12, you know, Bert, I became a full-time employee and my shift was all nights for a little while and I would walk home to my home, it was about an hour and 50 minute walk and my dad worked in a building halfway and he would be, head out the window to say, it was a great show, Ronnie, and I knew he hadn't listened to a minute of it, he was busy working for the RCMP. i hope he wasn't listening to my radio shift uh but yeah they they listened of course that's pretty cool that's pretty cool i mean so and this is this is where as a you know as a as a broadcaster who you know did the overnight shift blew my first break you know pinned all the levels on my first break it was matchbox 20 let's see how far we come 22nd post i remember it yeah

pinned all the levels of terrible but for me i think that when i was reading up on you ron the thing that blew me away and i was saying this to steve downstairs in the in the parking garage is you went from Weatherman, and I believe it was a CKR TV. They were a tri-entity, right. So they had FM, AM, and TV. So you're the Weatherman there on television, which is great.

And in Red Deer, which is not a, it's not a small, it's not too small. It's a pretty good market to start in. I feel like London, Ontario would be kind of an analogy here. Yeah. And then you go, and all of a sudden, you were the Western host for Hockey Night in Canada.

And I believe, correct me if I'm wrong here, six months later you were the main host uh well at hockey night in canada so i i go from red deer in 84 i start at uh channels two and seven in calgary cfac television i'm 24 and i hosted the calgary telecasts for two years so that's the midweek package uh in the day it was chch in toronto hamilton actually that had the leafs midweek package so i did that for two years and then i came to toronto as a 26 year old in 86 dave hodge was still with hockey night in canada And he left at the weekend of the briar. He left.

So that's 87, the spring of 87, he leaves. And I hadn't turned 27 yet. I turned 27 in April that year. And that's when I inherited sort of the full-time role. But, oh, my God, deer in headlights, scared to death, different time. You know, I always look at the broadcasters of today and feel like, God, where do they get that moxie at such a young age? You know, because I think, I hope, I rationalize that there were so few jobs like that job then that you understood the magnitude of it and you were overwhelmed by it. Because I was overwhelmed.

It took me, you know, and I honestly, Don Cherry, who could bully me with the best, but he could also really pick me up by the bootstraps and sort of nurse me through that infancy. Like any good coach. Yeah, he was a remarkable colleague in a really difficult time because for whatever reason, you know, we'd hit it off. Don's the kind of guy that if he thinks you don't like him, look out. But he understood or he could tell through his sixth sense that I liked him and that set us on the road to a good relationship. My favorite story about your first broadcast was you literally wouldn't let your eyes close.

So you got a tear streaming down your face and Don thought you were crying. totally and he covered steve he went the whole six minutes he he made up uh you know answers to questions i was only conceiving you know just because he could see the distress that i was in and uh i thought i was done the producer had said ron your eyes flit all over the place try and hold him still and that was a terrible thing to say to you know somebody before their first show because you're just so worried about that affectation that you just can't concentrate and again i was uh yeah i don't know how i made it through some of the early years i even look back uh 10 years into my career i can see the rigidity i can see the uh and that goes back to a wisdom that i i had in

life but not in broadcasting and that was to let someone else be the star to hand off the reins to to just relax into it's not about you uh you know don't think that the olympic games are going to hinge on whether i you know do a great job um but it took me a long time really a long time to kind of get really comfortable with that because look we're all positioning for work right we're all trying to make the team and somehow you feel in your mind that if you don't do something that stands out you won't be on the team so i can rationalize it again if nothing else i just gotta ask 27 years old and national broadcast and that's scary but do you remember the phone call do you remember or or the meeting like how did that happen well dave hodge left in a famous

falling out so many years ago now god when i do speeches i i use you know cultural references from the 80s and that's ancient history but dave hodge had been on the air and cbc it started in the afternoon on a weekend in 1987 in march of 87 we were televising the briar curling semi-final between newfoundland and british columbia and with two rocks to play on the 10th end in a tie game the cbc cut away to the ndp convention in ontario it was a pretty big deal bob ray was going to be elected as the new premier of ontario and so they cut away and in the rest of the country if you can believe it they cut away as well and they put on star trek uh so funny right things come and go but um so everybody was outraged at this curling gaffe and then later that night cbc was showing calgary

uh toronto on hockey night in canada and they had bonus coverage coming out of montreal the philadelphia flyers and the canadians and again they had to cut it off at 11 o'clock for the news and dave hodge did his lovely dissertation it's typical the way things are done here for the second time today i regret to inform you we are going to cut away from an event before its completion and if you're as frustrated as i am you'll take pen to hand imagine you had to write a letter in those days but you'll take pen to hand and write to the cbc brass and let them know if you're fully committed to network television sport the golden rule is finish what you start good night and he flipped a pen a mile in the air and that was it he walked away it was a combination

of he was sick of flying in from vancouver where he was now making his home and cbc was looking for a way out of the contract he was making big dough and they had this kid that don cherry liked and everything seemed to fit that they would just walk away from each other no one got fired and dave just said done and then so i i found out midweek that you know ron you're going to take over next week in montreal and you know here's what you say if you're asked by the reporters you know we're positioning dave's leaving as not a firing but a mutual agreement and here's how we're going to posture about this and i was 26 it's all gobbledygook i just uh and you know adam I didn't feel terrified about, I didn't think of, thank goodness I get to do this.

I certainly felt bad about Dave, and I certainly wasn't overwhelmed for a while about taking over. But then the reviews come in. And, you know, you've got to remember, there was no social media then. There was like the Toronto Stars, Ken McKee eviscerated me, and maybe the Globe and Mail's Bill Houston eviscerated me. But two reviews is all it takes to throw your heart. Two tweets is all it takes. From someone with a cat avatar and five followers.

Steve Dangle sucks. Yeah. You know the feeling, right? So, but I luckily, God, you know, again, things that you don't realize you're preparing inadvertently for a career or a path. I was a referee in hockey at the time. Had been by then for almost 10 years. Had been called every name in the book.

Had been criticized every which way. So, I didn't have a thick skin. Who among us does? But I had a thicker skin, you know. So, I was able to handle the early onslaught. And I was good at putting it in perspective that, look, you are only a kid. You know, don't be ahead of yourself in terms of what you can do. You got to grow into it.

Because I had gone through the start of my radio career where I had enormous anxiety issues. And I continued to have those in my early days at Hockey Night in Canada. But in my earliest radio career, I had horrific anxiety. And I used to look at the other DJs, the veterans, and think, God, I can't wait till that day when I'm as cool as they are about this. But it'll come. and it came for me on the radio and then it uh to a point and then it certainly came for me on television as i again just grew up uh i got two for you so uh what's what's a one of your favorite things you ever had yelled at you as a referee uh there was a guy uh a guy in schultz he was his

name at oakville arena uh they're just refurbishing the arena the blades is the junior a team and he used to blades yeah he used to call me the cockroach he says there he is there's a cockroach Watch him tomorrow night on Roach's Corner. Roach's Corner. But he had a million, and I liked him. You know, it was like a love-hate, right? He was doing it with the joy of the audience in mind. So that's where, you know, the late Tom Petty,

everything he did was a little bit of wink of an eye. So Schultz was my favorite. And then, you know, I remember. I just want to say, leave it to you to know the guy, to remember the name of the guy who gave you the worst chirps in hockey. I mean, most people would be like, screw that guy, and they'd walk away. No, I loved it. And as I said, people love it when Don Cherry gives them shit in an airport.

They feel like it's a badge of honor because he doesn't suffer fools gladly. He's a shy guy, I was telling you, but he's got a bit of a short fuse with anyone who gets a little too wise or big for their britches. And I loved it as a ref. I mean, what the hell? You're a ref. You should get yelled at. Again, back to my wrestling days, there had to be a good guy and a bad guy, and Killigan had to have the skipper, and they had to yell at each other, and you knew it was nonsense.

And here's your next life lesson. Wisdom is knowing what to overlook, right? And that takes a long time, but that's the ultimate deal is wisdom is knowing what to overlook. And I soon learned to overlook criticism or that. I rebelled. This guy sounds like a riot. Oh, he was, it wouldn't have been a good night without him, right? Absolutely.

What makes you nervous, like today? um sometimes uh a big interview you know if i feel like i haven't had uh really that was kind of taken from me uh steve was uh you know i think i'm not a mainstream thinker and i obviously was pro-union on the nhl or on the sport labor front uh so i haven't really had an interview where i would like if we were to sit down um and talk about the anthem kneeling debate and i had lewis lapham who i really respect editor of harper's magazine now lapham's quarterly if i had a guest such as lewis uh or justin trudeau or somebody where i had to sort of delve into an issue that i felt that's honestly uh that's an issue of uh demonstration of uh ethics so it isn't

life and death but it's still an important issue and i would get nervous for that i would start to i would start to fret about whether i have all my facts right uh my history right my questions right that i can in a short because we're usually live you know seven minutes uh television to murder that way that you you want to get at the truth in in that seven tight minutes it's so tough that makes me a lot of stuff gets left behind too that's the tier you're on by the way i was like i wonder what player he's going to say and you went with the prime minister yeah well it's funny like i try to think when i introduced the tragically hip in rio de janeiro uh it was their last show in Kingston and it was a 10 million

viewer audience but I've learned I'm delusional enough now to believe I'm speaking to one viewer and one only but I was trying to think how I was going to introduce the hip and I just remember thinking how I would calm myself by getting out of myself thinking I'm doing this for

Gord Downie I remember that Ron and then I was my I was told in my ear about five seconds before I went on that what I was going to do about you know the full house at Market Square and the viewing audiences around the country Scott Russell's now doing so could you do something else ron and i well yeah but we should have told me maybe 20 seconds ago so and i had all these athletes around me some of whom i remembered from the games

coverage but some of whom i didn't and i was terrified they'd walk up to me you know in the middle of the on camera and i would oh geez i didn't know whoever um so i had all these little pressures not i wasn't feeling nervous but i was anxious and my whole crux of my introduction was going to be based on a little bit again a little haughty or uh you know it feels like a grandstand play to you samuel johnson who was a shakespeare critic was the thrust of my intro uh who wrote the book called the vanity of human wishes and all of gordon downey's lyrics to me have always been about vanity and about humanity and our you know our aims our desires and how they can lead to you know corruption and problems uh so i wanted to use the song the wherewithal off fully completely

and there's a lyric in that song that I love. I always loved that guy. He's not on TV anymore. To get out before, he had the wherewithal, which means he walked away from the fame and the fortune and everything else. But when I delivered it that night, I got it wrong.

I said basically it was the night Christmas before. I said, I always loved that guy. He's not on TV anymore. He had the wherewithal to get out. So I'd reversed the last two sentences. No one would know. And it's not a... I was about to say.

I didn't murder Bill Berilko, you know. But I did get it wrong in the hype of, you know, trying to remember the five band members' names, which I know cold, but you always worry that in a moment of truth, you're going to go blank. And that was just a moment where I smiled to myself and think, you know, there you go, Shakespeare yourself, Ron. You got it wrong. You know, everybody said it was good. And I looked at it and it was a bit hurried and, you know, it had that usual tension of a big moment. But for the most part, I got it right,

except that I reversed the lyrics to my favorite fricking song. You know, I... Who hasn't done that, though? In front of 10 million people. I think that's the joy of being a broadcaster. One of the things that we realize in doing a show, Ron, and as you undoubtedly have as well, is that mistakes are going to happen.

For sure. Wisdom's knowing what to overlook. So the sooner you get past a mistake and realize that in A, five years, it's not going to mean anything, Maybe in five minutes it's not going to mean anything. But some of them, you know, some of my more glaring mistakes. And if you go to my Wikipedia, you know, it's really the 10 apologies.

It's the postal workers or it's Alex Burrows or it's the first responders at 9-11. I've used a doozy number of metaphors to try and connect ideas of courage or love or discipline. And they've backfired, you know, greatly. But so what? You're trying. You know, you're trying to force, you know. You know what your aims were. Yes.

And I also know when my aims are, Shirley Najak, a producer who has, I think, the simplest way of saying it. He said, if you work from a black heart, that's trouble. You know, you're looking for trouble. If you work from a red heart, a generous heart, you know, chances are it'll work out for you. But when I've kind of had an ax to grind, which is usually with Batman over the labor,

it can really go off the rails on me. Whereas when my intention, you're right, Adam, if your intentions are good. And the other thing I would say, you know, I always encourage, you know, which is why podcasting has become such a great medium. You know, the basic information we always receive is don't overthink it. And my version of life is overthink it. What the hell else are we here for?

You know, you got 80, 90 years, Tom Petty, 66 years. And he thought hard and long about what he did. And it paid off, you know. And then when his work was done, it's incredible. But his work was done, he could go. That brings us to Gary Babin. And I think, you know, I mean, I don't want to bring this up in just a general sense. I mean, obviously, we've had some pretty specific messaging from NHL head office recently.

You know, one from Bill Daly today about Joffrey Lupo and Marian Hossa, which we'll get to in a second, because that is a crazy story. But I think the most important social thing is the fact that Gary Bettman told Ken Reed, I think it was last week in PEI, that he didn't think an NHL rink was a place for protest and that players should do it on their own time. and you've had multiple dealings with gary and and i'll just be up front on the show we don't get him we don't understand him well he's a lawyer adam he's first i really like him uh he's uh he has a you know he gets really upset with the feeling and i think it's his owners or other people putting it in his ear that you can't be made to look bad i was told from my bosses you can't have don cherry running a rough shot over you ron you're a journalistic authoritative voice of the cbc you're representing us uh why what's the problem with don loving bobby orr and brian

kilray and fighting and dave samanko right so uh and and i think gary gets told sometimes you know gary you're being made to look bad by this little sniff from red deer you know who's who has the uh audacity to question you on labor relations but gary first of all he's a lawyer so everything he says is with a little bit of uh what are the repercussions what will i be caught with if i say such you know uh is any way this can come back and bite the national hockey league would we be guilty of uh you know chronic encephalopathy or will we be guilty of uh unfair labor practices he's always thinking that way so you have to take him at that you have to realize that he's kind of shackled in the way he he can't be socially honest like we are he has to be responsible that's one

break i really cut him um and then after that um if it's the question of demonstrations you know take the knee i am fully fully thousand billion percent in favor of responsible comment born of your life uh you know every one of us has the opportunity to uh to show uh what we have learned and how we feel and that way we have a democracy uh without it uh it's it's a disaster uh you know if we decide only so and so gets to comment uh then again we're struck with a prism through which to learn that's very narrow uh it's hopeless uh this particular demonstration obviously has been a great one it's uh it's about social injustice it's about racial inequality it's a when else and how else you know if it isn't jesse owens in berlin if it isn't uh muhammad ali against

the vietnam war uh how else you you you need someone in a position of uh not necessarily power social influence but influence is a great word uh to take a stand and to uh to create a messaging uh it's just valuable for us that's the that's the lifeblood of our our whole life is uh is you know that's what separates us from the animal kingdom we think uh is that we have the wherewithal to try and examine social issues rights from wrongs right uh all all in my life i've i've read nothing almost but ethics books i've read everything john ralston saul's ever written i've read everything uh joseph epstein joseph heller uh margaret somerville i could go on and on about the ethicists i've read to try and figure out okay when we do the coach's corner you know are we

leaving uh someone with the impression that it's all right to x bully be bigot and you know i'm really careful to try and find the uh that fine line and when grapes and i cross over it backwards and forwards all the time but it's not without thinking you know don his example and take the knee was well he used tim tebow and the fact that when tim used to take the knee in praise of his lord that everybody gave him hell so he felt it was a hypocritical thing to now support this in the media but as you know the media's had both sides and i appreciate both sides for sure i think it's okay to i hate pride and i hate nationalism but i think you do want to love your country and have pride in your country just as you would have pride in your child or love your child

you know it's family and country are kind of in the same boat so and the and the military a connection to our flag and that so to go to don's paradigm which is religion or christianity his lord uh allowed you know his son jesus is saying god god why have you forsaken me he allowed him to die to acknowledge sins to to make amends for uh the injustices of the past perfect if jesus and god can come to an agreement that you know we are sinners it sure is behooving uh to have NFL players or NBA players or any of us, just as we were, you know, Canada's trying to sort out our First Nations, you know, egregious treatment of the First Nations. We had the deportation of the Acadians.

We had ethnic cleansing in Canada long ago. So it's a great thing that's happening. It's all part of the, you know, the exchange that will get us hopefully together. That's all I think. Do you think the perception that hockey is behind other sports socially is correct or fair? Socially? Like, why? Because of the fighting or why?

Well, okay, the NFL, at least many players in it, seem to take a stance one way or the other. The NBA seems pretty dug in. And hockey, we haven't really heard a peep. um like donald trump is using the pittsburgh penguins right now literally using them as propaganda um well yes okay uh i see that point and you know you could obviously assume that because there isn't a you know african-american hockey player to the extent there is in the nba or the nfl and this issue is about racial inequality and police brutality in the u.s that maybe that is uh is the reason that it hasn't happened on a on a greater scale on the hockey

side joel ward obviously flirted with it for a little bit but hasn't really taken the stand or taken the knee uh yet um but you know again it's like victimhood uh you know not everybody should have to be forced into response like if you're a victim of sexual abuse some came out some did not uh and that's okay uh in in the case of victimhood it's really dangerous to counsel somebody on how to be an activist or how to behave so i don't mind that you know if hockey's pulling in its horns right now uh because you know there is a copycat or a herd mentality in most things that go on in life uh and because you know especially in hockey like the nfl i would say uh and i suppose the nba is pretty physical too but if you start to show up your opponent or if you start to

step out of line in hockey it can be dangerous for you it can be dangerous for your teammates so for now you know I don't begrudge Crosby going to the White House I think you know it's two sides you can't just have it one way it can't just be you're right and you're wrong

it can't be it has to be a conversation that leads to a compromise that leads to understanding so I'm never so or I am never inclined to want to say that person's right and the other's wrong I think, you know, I can't see who could look at what's been going on in America

and saying, we've got it right. So there has to be a fix. As I said, we can't look at Canada and say we have it right. No, we can't. So it's not well enough to look across the border. Maybe somebody should figure out, like, I know Tara Sloan and I are trying, and we will, figure out a way to open the Rogers hometown hockey telecast with an acknowledgement of the First Nations, you know,

the land upon which we're doing the show. just little bits and pieces of our little truth and reconciliation just as you know in south africa desmond tutu had to work so hard but then tutu's case uh the bishop you know he he was a big part of mandela's march to freedom and uh you know correcting all the wrongs of the past but he also knew that violence sucked uh this is a peaceful protest so we're okay with it but no i don't think hockey's behind i think it's just for now um they're neutral let's call it would you would you say though in these times and i you know i think we've been on the record of saying we we are but there's a lot of people who said and i think we're among them so we better own that

that there was at at best an opportunity missed by the penguins and i'm not saying they didn't have to go but there seems well it may change you know keeps the balls moving uh but uh no uh adam you know i again you you're expecting somebody to behave uh a certain way and i don't think that's fair i think that's where that's where we cross a line is when we start to say you know if you don't join the movement you're wrong like one of my favorite professors is ann wortham at chicago illinois university who who used to challenge martin luther king at every turn you know she would she would uh she didn't believe in victimhood the way he did uh she she felt that you got to be really careful with the past agregions or grievance grievances uh because you might just

use it to sashay for political want you know her theory of victimhood is are you seriously being affected by this are you losing a job are you being discriminated are you being is it costing you something then you have a true grievance then you have a true discrimination so she was great she was a wise voice in this whole discussion and I think you have to look at all those different voices and just say okay why is so and so behaving a certain way the justification for the penguins going to the white house is they're respecting the office of the president sure versus trump absolutely and i don't think anybody's saying well that makes them trump supporters yeah is there an i mean is there a way to go to the white house and also acknowledge that you know

maybe that there are there that there are a lot of things not going right right now only if you feel that way only you know you can't ask the penguins to join the flock you know they they have to think for themselves and you have to respect them thinking for themselves and you can't get mad at them for taking a contrarian position you know that's uh that's where we get into all the trouble is that you know the the suspicion of the other uh is what led to police brutality right you know so it's uh it would be awful if all of a sudden we we started to ask for conformity if we started to ask for that kind of unity that's that's you know a man Unconvinced against his will is unconvinced still.

So just let them do their thing. But embrace if you believe in it, and I do, and it sounds like you do. I adore the fact that somebody's using their life to make a responsible comment. You know, to see that guy on the bench last night, you know, after Vegas and Tom Petty and Dave Strader. I had, you know, like a day of just devastating news. and i thought there's a there's a guy you know uh just really dialed into uh something that he believes in and i thought good for you what else you've got to live for you just you not everyone else yeah yeah wow okay it's it's obviously a really complicated issue and like you said you

only have seven minutes it's right tv is like not much better in twitter or than twitter in terms of It's 140 characters. Right, it's the 140, like a podcast is, you can talk until the computer literally breaks like we do. Mile wide, inch deep. But we're still live. Even on a podcast, we are live. If we could edit ourselves, you know, if we could go back and on, you know, sober second thought and the cold gray light of dawn reflect, we probably would, but we don't. So we're still, you know, we're dangerous, right?

And I'm dangerous and I recognize that. I've always had a fear of, you know, that's why I keep reading ethics books to sort of figure out, okay. your right to throw that punch ends where your fist stops and my nose begins. Oliver Wendell Holmes. So you just always are thinking, okay, good God, Ron, be really careful with this medium because it is influential and it is inspiring and it can be used for good or bad.

Well, and to that end, do you think this will be whispered at all on Saturday night? You know, that's a good question. Grapes and I'll sort it out on Saturday morning. Do you guys talk in the morning? We always talk Saturday morning at 9.30. And then we talk again all during the first period, and we kind of feel it. You know, like, Don's the kind of guy that 9.30 Saturday morning,

yes, I'm Trump, you know, he's been good this side and the other thing. And then we go on the pregame show, and Elliot Friedman happens to mention something about a Trump protest, and, well, that's it. That's it. I'm not talking about it. They've already talked about it. Am I going to be just another guy, you know, picking up the crumbs and joining the, so you never know, right, what Don's going to do.

and i never know uh but i actually talks like that yeah it makes me feel good it's yeah and and so mentally i'm just kind of waiting for we'll feel it i think it's an important uh or is it you know like we got everything's becoming part of the surge in volume of the media right now and i'm terrified of that too that you know we just fall into line with uh you know john ralston's all i mentioned i read he wrote a book called the comeback which is about our first nations and His line is that we deal in the details of the day, the drama of the day, and we always want to give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down, much like the gladiators, you know, in the Roman Colosseum.

Instead of really thinking about the solution or the issue or where we're going to go with this. So, you know, when Todd Bertuzzi throws a punch at Steve Moore and breaks his neck, or if the chain of events breaks his neck, thumbs up, thumbs down. Thumbs up, I like fighting, and, you know, this is just an accent. A thumbs down, this is an act of brutality or violence. But that didn't really get to where is Todd Bertuzzi going forward, where is, like I think of that Jason Aldean going on stage yesterday

and that hail of bullets, and I think of, you know, obviously first and foremost the loss of those innocents, but I just think of that nice moment of everybody holidaying, a singer going out in that joy, and then contrasting it with the hail of bullets, and I'm like, wow, will that guy ever be the same? I don't know. So the detail of the day isn't really what's at issue here.

It's more, and whenever Trudeau hints at this, he kind of gets ridiculed for it, but it's more the sociological idea of that story. Why is there people snapping? What does it mean to the people left? Those are more important than I agree with it or I disagree with it. Wow. So hopefully that won't happen in seven.

And I, sir, you know what, my only route usually, Steve, is to write a blog after Don has done. If it's, if I think the issue is that important, give Don the six, seven minutes and then I'll write a blog, you know, kind of contrarian opinion if I feel the need. Like there was one time when Don had a funny coach's corner about women in the locker room, a female reporter. That was relatively recent too. Again, it's, you know, part of it's right. You know, part of what he said is right. But the big part of it, of course, is incorrect. But his idea of, you know, the men feeling uncomfortable and lashing out and all these different things that Don would know as a coach in a dressing room, you have to listen to, you have to respect.

But the idea of a world with just old white guys telling you what's going on and not having a woman's point of view is just, you know, it's ludicrous. But I couldn't say that on The Coach's Corner. I said it in maybe two words and then said, oh, I wrote a blog about it. That's the only way to deal with issues that are that meaningful. That's got to be awkward when you don't have a chance to rebut it. And it's like, and Ron thinks so too. Yeah. Well, I've always gone with a stupid pun to try and say there's two sides to the story or, you know, let's, you know, that's, we're here for a short time, right?

And even in all these wonderful deep conversations, I get sort of thinking, you know, does anybody at the end of their day really want to have misery or, you know, we do want a little fun in our lives. But I would never forsake, again, responsible comment. That's the best way to look at art. You know, everything in art, music, painting, sport, ultimately you're drawn to these because they're expressions of something that's really not that consequential but could be. And it's great when it is. You know, it's rare when it is and it's great when it is. Like, there's a lot of songs with beer and making love, you know. And who doesn't want to listen to those, right?

but it is neat when somebody writes something that has such a resonant effect, such a dark side that you finally feel like you're not alone. That's great. You took a really long time to get Twitter, and you finally have it now. Barely. Barely, right. How come you're not that into it? Again, because I just don't trust myself, Steve.

I feel like I don't want – I'm almost uncomfortable with the word followers. It almost begins with – and that's a silly – that's syntax, right? I shouldn't let that be the... No, I get it. Yeah, I feel like I don't want... Because, you know, I click on and have 170,000 followers. It's like, oh, God, you don't know what you're dealing with here. You know, my halo is so tarnished.

You shouldn't be following me. And yet you should, you know, because I have access to a lot of good information that, you know, is gleaned through this career. But I just don't, Steve, I just... For me, maybe because I'm older, I really need that distance from constantly being told how to think, what to think, and, you know, I just end up following the ball

and, you know, the social conscience of the masses instead of kind of stepping back from the herd and thinking for myself in a bright sunlight over a lake. I need that distance. All my best ideas, I think, you know, like postal workers and 9-11 first responders and all the things I've had to apologize for, But all those great ideas came in solitude, came in quiet, came in, you know, mindfulness. So I can't find mindfulness on my Samsung or my Huawei now, smartphone.

So that's why. I just fear that. I love that you slipped that in there. Hockey nights. I can be bought. By money, not ideas. Yeah, that's great. Can you just hold that?

grapes will never hold a product in a commercial you know where i will i was i'm a shell what was that story i read um you were at a restaurant you ordered a i think it was a heineken and someone was like yeah steve lansky was a was a producer with hockey night in canada and it was my first 1984 my first dinner i'd been hired and we went to caesar's steakhouse in calgary and uh i ordered a heineken i thought i was going to have a cocktail beer right because i normally drank black label carling black label was my beer but i uh i thought i would go out you know i don't do my ties or martinis or anything so i thought i'd have a cocktail beer i'll have a heineken and right away he says you work for molson you ever do that again you're fired you

know what it was a quick lesson you know john shannon when i first got hired is because steve and john were partners on the western side of hockey night in canada and john said you know ron remember no words bigger than marmalade we're selling beer here and that was kind of the uh especially back in the day. It's the most hockey night in Canada. I remember that much when it was then. Yeah. And then it's funny,

Labatt came because Bud sponsors Coach's Corner now, but I remember Labatt bought us as a free agent in 1994. They took over Hockey Night in Canada. Oh, good year with the lockout and everything. Yeah. So Don Kitchen was their head of beer sales, or probably a bigger title than that. Really nice guy, though.

I remember talking to him at the Nagano Olympics, and then he died at the age of 44. He had a cardiac arrest, a young man who was just a just really inspirational guy because that's a you know the beer like all those businesses ours broadcasting they are supposed to make your day that that's the the beauty of our vocation is uh and the beer business you know can obviously quickly not be your friend if alcohol gets you but uh he was a great great guy and i remember uh again just an example of I had been so loyal to Molson.

Now I have to be loyal to the bat. So yes, no, black, white. It's a fickle world out there. Be ready. Sure is, especially in broadcasting. So, you know, I definitely want to, we got to talk about just some of the stories that are happening right now.

Obviously, we talked about Bettman. We talked about Crosby and that sort of thing. And without getting, I don't want to get too far into that stuff anymore because I think we're all kind of just ready for the season to start. We sure are. Talk about some damn hockey.

So let's, what are you personally looking forward to the most in terms of NHL storylines that could develop. What are you saying? I know you're an Alberta guy. I know that Edmonton, Calgary is going to be fantastic. I feel like, Adam, what I'm trying to guard against, but I don't see how to avoid this trap,

but we are so consumed with no Canadian teams made the playoff, five Canadian teams made the playoff, Oilers are going to be great, Leafs are going to be great, and again, we're becoming nationalists, we're becoming isolationists. When I think of Jamie Benn and the Dallas Stars and their Canadian owner, Tom Ghilardi. I think a Stamkos' return and that team down there in Tampa.

I think Florida's really intriguing. I'm trying to, A, balance, you know, how great last year was with Pittsburgh and Nashville. That was a really... I thought the playoffs were so great last year, and I love the Ducks. You know, they're banged up, Batten and Lindholm, so they may not get out of the gate very well,

but they were a good team last year, and they're the only reason... Their experience got Edmonton much the way Crosby got Nashville and Ottawa. So I'm really looking forward to the growth of the Canadian teams. Who couldn't? You know, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton are all positioned really well to be strong. Toronto's, you know, just fascinating to watch.

So much young talent. I'm like everyone else. And it was funny. I don't know if you guys felt, probably have dealt with this, but they, you know, we couldn't wait for that first preseason game and they had the crackdown. And it was, you know, guys couldn't even look at each other in the face-off circle and it was two minutes and it was like, they just butchered the start of the play.

Sure did. It really, it took the wind out of the sails. It made me less excited. That Shanghai game, I thought those poor souls, you know, in Shanghai, they got to watch. They didn't know what they were watching. So that's just the way crackdowns go. Well, they think that's what hockey is now. Yeah.

Right. Forever. But it was a shame, right? Because we'd had an unbelievable year and we felt we had to make changes. And I can't argue that the slashing was getting out of hand, evidently by the number of slashing penalties. Mark Mathod agrees, as does his finger. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, it was an issue that had to be kind of quietly done.

But it was so overt and it took the game away that it just made it. And so then, you know, if you have this parade of penalties again, like we had after the lockout in 2005-6, is Kyler Yamamoto that great? Is Jake Vertanen back? Is Brock Besser that great? You know, guys are scoring at will in a game where you're not allowed to frown. so preseason's as bad as it is for gauging ability

but this preseason was just wonky so I'm looking forward to the end of that and I'm relishing the start of hopefully a reversion to what we had in last year's playoffs which was incredible I'm excited that at least for the Leafs anyway

the first game is Leafs-Jets there's a chance for like actual hate there you know an actual rivalry because like it's kind of like Babcock said I thought the Leafs vets, and by vets I mean Matthews and Nylander, I thought they looked good, but it was just sloppy.

It was, yeah. It was gross. Absolutely inconsequential. And as he said about the face-off edict, he says, can they compete? Is it a competition? And that's what, you know, you don't want to ever suck the life force or the risk out of life. And you sure as hell don't want to take the competition out of sport.

I mean, the whole premise of sport is to be a sort of a Petri dish version of war. And it's meant to be, as Churchill said, war is meant to be conducted with a smile. And if you can't smile, grin. And if you can't grin, get out of the way. And the laughter was definitely sucked out of the preseason. Yeah. I got it. So there's just such an amazing quote.

It's such a very Mike Babcock quote that came out today. Yeah, go ahead. So they were talking about players and they're talking about Steve does it. Please don't do that. Don't do that. PL apostrophe R. They were talking about, you know, the Matthews versus line a matchup tomorrow night. He's like, oh, I thought I thought it was Jets Leafs tomorrow.

I forgot. Like you just had that. Like, yeah, well, he was. I loved his same with the Crosby, you know, the scoring race when he said Crosby has the Olympic gold. Does anybody remember who led the play or the Olympics in scoring? Uh, he, he's really, uh, he's a, and I also thought of, you know, the reason he has kind of a, the way he speaks is because he's taken so many pucks and sticks to the mouth, uh, from his career as a defenseman.

And I thought, you know, when he said that about competes, I thought, geez, we should get Paul Maurice, you know, bless his heart, lost an eye to, uh, you know, uh, stick, uh, but all the faces of some of these guys who are, you know, completely beat up, uh, the coaches and them trying Travis green, you know, those guys trying to coach in this sport that won't allow you to touch one another uh but as uh my wife carrie says yeah well ron you know what they'd say to that oh ron wants everybody cut to shreds and losing eyes so well that's what that's actually how we'll title this podcast ron mclean please cut each other up yes uh ron mclean loves maiming one of the things that we're fascinated with constantly here is is you know

obviously first and foremost we were a leafs podcast to start that became sort of a leaf slash NHL podcast. So, you know, we didn't expect it to bring in, you know, audiences from elsewhere, and luckily we have. But two of the most fascinating figures in the game are with the Leafs. I mean, I think three, Shanahan, Lamorello, Babcock. They are real, all three of them, and especially Lamorello and Babcock, real characters.

Yes. When you've dealt with Lou Lamorello, I want to ask you about him first. What kind of a guy is he? Oh, I love him. But I will say, Lou is, you know, the love he shares with me. And in 2003, the Devils were playing the Ducks. And I was in the foyer of the hotel after game six. They'd lost.

And I always remember waking up about 5.30 because we had an early flight. And Pat Burns was already out on the grass making a phone call to Lou, probably, who was in our hotel. But he was phoning somebody. Anyway, I gave Moneyball, you know, a book about the Oakland A's and Billy Bean. I gave a copy to Lou Lamorello. And not a week later, I received two books from Lou, signed. One was Vince Lombardi and one was Yogi Berra. When my father died, first thing I got was from Lou Lamorello.

So he's that, you know, beautiful, loyal guy. But he's a hardliner. And Brent Sutter tells a good story. I think it's long enough gone by that I can tell the story, Lou. Brent's coaching the Devils for Lou. And they're playing out in Edmonton on a Saturday night. And then Monday, they're going to play in Minnesota. Sunday morning, Brent Sutter organizes for them all to go curling.

Half the guys are Americans, don't know the first thing about curling, although I suppose the northern states do. But anyway, he phones Lou Lamorello in New Jersey on the Saturday night, and he says, Lou, any chance the guys can just wear their sweats, their track suits to the curling rink and on the charter? It's a charter, no public, because otherwise they've got to pack their wardrobe and take their suit and put it on after the curling. It kind of ruins the fun that we're trying to have with the little outing Sunday morning. And Lou says, Brent, you know our policy, shirts and ties and jackets on every flight. When they landed in Minnesota Sunday afternoon, Lou Lamorella was on the tarmac to meet the plane

to make sure that the guys were all in jacket and tie. Wow. You know, this is the National Hockey League, and it's still, for him, Providence College. He has a, so he's fantastic. And, you know, that's why he was so hard. Scott Moore, our boss, was always wanting the rookies to do post-game interviews.

And Lou's just got all these different ways to keep you in line, to keep, strip you of your celebrity, strip you of your fame. So he's good. Do you think that's good? I do. Do you like Toronto? I do.

I absolutely think, you know, Brian Burke used to call it the blue disease. And I do believe that it's important. You know, it can come from within the room. And, you know, there's a point at which, but I think you saw Austin Matthews was extremely careful not to be too gregarious in goal celebrations.

He was doing it the way you should. And I think Lou's great for that. Jacques Lemaire is around the organization. Mark Hunter is around the organization. The history of success indicates that patterns repeat. So you should go out and get the people that are successful. And the Leafs, Brendan's no fool. He quickly surrounded himself with, if nothing else, an excuse to say,

well, don't look at me. He quickly surrounded himself with the right guys, and then they teach. You know, Babcock, leave no doubt, as Mike always says. And one of the ways you create doubt is by giving your enemy fodder. so they're doing a great job of a lot of things including obviously the talent they've selected he's neat so that's a Lou Lamorello

that is so Lou does that surprise you? no not at all and with Mike what's Mike like? and Mike same what I like about he's a teacher the lessons you've read I don't know if you've read his book Leaving No Doubt

but he just talks about his mom telling him to stop living in a beer commercial and you know again for him it's accountability it's just uh you know he there's enough fear there that again for the modern player you know how are you going to tell connor mcdavid or austin matthews you're not how's don cherry going to tell bobby or what to do he didn't uh and you had to be he said it was like you walk on eggshells around guys like those talents you have to be very careful what you say you know one time bobby had been beat on a one-on-one and uh the next time he made a great play took the body

And Don says, good job, Bobby. And Bobby just turned around, yeah, thanks. Thanks a lot, coach. You know, he was hot. He was mad that Don was even commenting on Bobby's game. So it's not easy to coach those guys. And the only way you do it is with a bit of swagger. You know, Pat Burns, Pat Quinn, Mike Babcock, I kind of link with the same.

A little bit intimidating. Just enough to keep you off balance so that when you get too comfortable, you're uncomfortable, which is usually a good thing. Well, and Pat Burns, before he was a coach, wasn't he a cop? Yeah. And so, honestly, Steve, a police officer and a teacher uh have the and so lou lamorello comes from providence college you know professor um those are pat quinn was a lawyer trained uh you know all these involve

ethics and these involve uh how to shape a little society how to do the right thing for more than the one but for the group so those are great foundations upon which to be a leader and they're all they're all you know different leaders for sure but good leaders and then i guess i mean And, Ron, the person that obviously everybody wants to know about is Don. And before I ask this question, before we get into this, I want to tell you what Don said about you. Because I interviewed him once. And I've interviewed you before. And obviously it's TV settings, so it's a little bit different, a little bit more topical.

Ours was about hometown hockey. His was about Hockey Night in Canada. So he comes into Breakfast Television and he does his interview with Kevin. And Kevin Frankish actually made me go, he's like, don's skin looks so supple and he actually made me go up and touch don's face i remember andina was all over that i just would have said no i was i was terrified and don kind of gave me the it's okay like but otherwise i'm not i don't want to touch don cherry's face because i don't think don cherry wants me touching his face but he was great about it um and he's very proud of it right

cocoa butter i'm sure he told you what it is yeah oh he loves yeah he swears by cocoa butter when he used to use to heal up his cuts yeah because it doesn't leave scars that's it there it is okay so that's good to know so so anyway don was great and so i take him upstairs we have to do a separate interview for another channel and i said and i had to ask this question they told me to ask this question and i didn't want to ask this question because there's certain times producers that ask you to ask the obvious yeah and it's like okay so i gotta ask do do ron do you and ron hang out off the air and i'm like like cringing as i ask and the answer he gave me was so great it was not not at all he said he drinks wine i drink beer yeah and that's that's where

he left it he hasn't even come uh within a tenth of the amount of beer i've had in my life so that's let's correct that whoa let's start right there and there's about 20 million canadians will vote for me on that one um but uh yeah but i do love wine too and i at least will go outside of the beer only rule that he has uh and we're dear friends and we do hang out like incessantly when we're on the road doing hockey but not in the summer i think we always had the feeling we would ruin it you know if we were too much together we're both intense in our own little way and there's been times when we fought you know i'm obviously a left winger he's a right winger i'm a catholic he's a protestant we have all kinds of reasons not that he's way more religious i'd say

than i am um uh but anyway we we would fight uh and we might spoil a good thing if we spent too much time uh together sometimes you need a break i think but i think i honestly think he misses that you know, companionship, and I think it bothers, you know, Don's, God, he's 83, you know, so he leads a very quiet life, he's happy with his goldfish and the TV clicker, but I think he would love to have, you know, a little more, he and his son Tim have a, and his wife Lou, of course, but his son Tim go to all the minor midget hockey games and scout together, and Don relishes that, you know, he's, we have such a great time together, and, you know, he plays that you know batman and robin you can't let on what you're sure about or where you live

or any of that stuff it's uh he knows it's tv and don has studied television and movies uh till you know the end of time he knows how the lighting should be he knows who should sit taller he knows who should be the wolf with his tail in the air and i love all that i just love that it's his true calling and he and he just so passionate about it that uh but you know passion can be a dangerous thing yeah anyway he's he's we're dear friends and uh you know i just think the world of him you know i just he gets such a such a fit comes over him when he thinks about we left wingers that it's uh pinkos yeah the left-wing pinko communists uh it's hard for him to tolerate us in our altruism but that's okay speaking of you being able to drink uh don cherry under the

table for sure uh how's your uh air guitar game going it's good i uh you know obviously i gotta work on my abs but uh my frets i don't know i was fine man come on i'm 57 well i was probably what was i then 50 anywhere anybody anybody that doesn't know there is a fantastic legendary picture of the legendary man sitting to my left who who uh was air guitaring and i forget what was home the link victoria i don't know what the link is but it was great you were air guitaring in a bar with his shirt laughing my effing ass off was the song playing i thought it was maroon five and i was i might have been late i was a little delayed in my thinking that night but anyway we were uh there was a young an nhl player's son and i got up on the bar among others

you know there was a lot of sure up on the bar dancing and playing air guitar and it was good fun and uh but i remember pj stock came and lifted me off the bar and says we got to get this guy out of here because there had to be i don't know how many cameras went off but it was incredible that only one person posted because it was just a uh milky way ever the enforcer pj stock it was too late but it was a great great effort but you know what ron i i hope that you i hope you don't look back on that with any sort of regret not one bit no that's my party trick it was uh and it was a great night and uh yeah no not not a bit of regret in fact except that i would have liked to have maybe uh dieted for about two weeks just earth you know done something

to cut a little bit as I said I was quite all things considered yeah yeah but I was chubby take all the spontaneity out of it

bring baby oil to the bar oh I'm just doing what I always do just air guitar with my abs it really Ron McLean

right here it proved the beer in my hand and the music you know kind of that spoke to really who I am you know

just a beer league hockey player who loves music that's kind of that's the essence of the way I've gone through life so I was

quite happy that it kind of came out so that everybody could connect as, you know, we're real. We're all real. What did Don say? I don't think he said anything about that now that I think about it. No, because it happened in the summer and by then, you know, we all forgot about it. So he never said a thing. But it does come up in

just about, I'd say, one in four interviews. Oh, sorry. So that's a time immemorial. You know, that's one of those things you do in your life. Like Ken Dryden said, there are things you do that, you know, you'll be known for for the rest of your life. And that definitely was one for me. I think it's pretty freaking odd. If I could be known for that, that would be amazing. If you're going to interview Ron,

you're going to Google Ron and then you're going to come across that. You know, that'll be one of the things you see. So that's why it comes up and it's, but it's fun. Yeah. It's a totally a, I just remember Trevor pilling my boss at CBC phone. Have you seen the picture? Thank God I'd seen the picture, you know, cause it could, well, it couldn't have been worse, but, uh, it was, uh, it could have been worse.

And yeah, so he was okay with it. They were fine with it. Well, okay. So it was having a good time when, one of the things that, um, that I've always wanted to, you, you, there was a promo that was so good last year for Hockey Night in Canada that they're basically using it again.

They're still using it. And you wrote that. Yeah. And you talk about the unity of Canada. I'm sure you could just rhyme it off at the top of your head. Yeah. But if you've been in Canada,

you've seen this promo. If you haven't, we'll try to link to it on our page. I'm not even sure. I'm sure it's posted somewhere. Almost getting on my nerves, so I can imagine yours. No, it's not.

No, it's so great. We don't see it as much. It's like hit songs for me, right? I hear them every 90 minutes, but not everybody's got the chance to hear it all the time right good um i'll let you know when it starts yeah just send me a yeah tweet a direct message that's the best i can do slide to ron mclean's ds right um so what for you what does a day at hockey night in canada look like and then tell me how that transitions into

hometown hockey well first of all about that promo it was uh one of the things i always wished we would do is run the promo as it was done you know it was a uh on camera uh and it was essentially 60 seconds to camera once uh and it was just a story that i had kind of thought of in my own mind about you know the love affair between a country and a game which is a direct ripoff there was a an album produced in 1970-71 of hockey night in canada history at that point i think was 20 years old yeah it was so jack dennett in toronto narrated this uh two album disc set my dad gave it to me for christmas i have a lovely picture of me sitting by the christmas tree with my hockey night in canada album and jack dennett ends the whatever it is i'd say two

hours long uh narrative uh with you know this is the story of a love affair between a country and a game the grandest game of them all i didn't say that so i built that as the template and just talked about, you know, you want to teach somebody about Canada of all the days during the week the one that's different is Saturday but I would love to see it just shown on the internet as it was, because it was a neat little story

delivered, you know, without me walking around in cool suits that part, yeah, it's got to be somewhere well, I have to tell you, the visual didn't throw us off at all, right? no, it's beautifully done it's beautifully done

but I would love to see, I would love to show how simple that was as an online idea. And to give credit to Jack Dennett for creating that concept of a love of... And he didn't write that. He delivered it. He narrated it. But then, so Saturday, to answer your question,

9.30 phone call to Grapes. Quick email to Kathy Broderick, who's the producer of The Coach's Corner, to say, okay, Don and I have talked about... I had given her a list of things during the week. He's given a list of things during the week that we saw. Like for me right now, I'm hot on... It's funny, the things you get.

But I'm hot on the saucer pass that Patrick Laine made to Nick Ehlers in the preseason, which is exactly Eric Carlson to Mike Hoffman in last year's playoffs. To Tom Brady. I'm trying to think of, you know, to set the table, let's put it on a platter. You know me and puns. But I'm trying to think of a way to start the year with that. Now, I've just said it. Don't you do it Wednesday night, Scotiabank Wednesday night hockey.

That's what always happens, right? Wait, you're assuming that they're listening to our show, which I think would be a grand assumption. There's a little bit of Don in you. Well, they did it, so I don't even feel like doing it. The only thing that loses is luster if it runs Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. And I come on like, by the way, I bet you never saw this. And everybody's saying, what's the matter with you?

Do you not watch hockey? So that's my fear, right? And I'm letting you in on a little secret there. And that's how it works. I sit all through the preseason jotting down plays that I like, things that I think, and try to, what the hell am I going to say Saturday night? I still don't know, right? but so that's a call to don email to kathy broderick and then i usually roll in about

one o'clock on a saturday afternoon and i meet with allison redmond's the producer of rogers hometown hockey so we're kind of looking ahead to the next day and we go through the final look at the script which will change again 400 times but we look at a script for the show in niagara falls then i do some voiceover work for rogers hometown hockey then i go have a shower in the cbc building around 3 or 3 30 and then we meet on the set around four o'clock with nick elliott and kelly to determine what we might like to talk about uh in the pre-game show and again in the second intermission uh then don rolls in about five and uh he and i have a quick chat about you know we look at all the clips uh that we're going to do on the coach's corner that night

and that ends at about 5 30 and then get ready for the 6 30 pre-game show and then do the show and leave at 10.15 and either get on an airplane or get in the car and try to get to wherever the hell Sunday night is. Just that simple. So when you leave on the airplane, sometimes it's BC, sometimes it's Whitehorse, sometimes it's like... It's crazy. You know, last year, as an example, Grand Falls, Windsor, Newfoundland,

I left on a Sunday morning. I left from Toronto at 7 a.m. to Halifax, then to St. John's, Newfoundland from Halifax, and then from St. John's, Newfoundland to Gander, and then from gander a 90 minute drive so it's three flights in a drive you know and right into a meet and greet corporate meet and greet and right on the air and it's just freaking bedlam but we have listeners all over the world please actually look up how far that is yeah yeah and then and then they and the only saving grace is you're going east so the game's not till uh

if it's a 6 30 that's eight o'clock we go on the air in newfoundland uh so you have that time on your side and when you fly west uh usually take the midnight flight to either vancouver or calgary Edmonton so in the case of Vancouver if it's a midnight flight I'm landing at uh you know six in the morning I'm getting to the hotel at six in the morning on a Sunday morning but it's one day one day on adrenaline you can you can fudge uh and if I go blank it's just Tara you know I can kind of make googly eyes but she has a question because I freaking don't even know what town I'm in uh yeah but I love that show and that it's worth the aggravation and uh that show is basically you know land do a corporate meet and greet which is it's a neat show because we get all the mayors

the MPs, the MLAs, or the members of the legislature or provincial government, they come first and we do the VIP thing and they usually bring a couple of special kids or something and then we do the show with all the folks there and it's just energizing and it's rootsy and some people may consider it corny, but I don't. I just think it's everything that the game really is. It's a beer leaguer, it's a minor hockey mom and dad and their child and it's great and sometimes it's the nhl guy going back oh for sure adam they they the guys

love it they they're more than anxious to be a part of it that's they're you know all the all the nhlers get there because roots have success there's a skate sharpener in every town there's a coach in every town there's uh just so many people responsible for them making it you know in the case of uh jamie bennett was larry orr in victoria uh and i could you know they all have a story that you know makes us feel like it's possible to be either vicariously in the nhl through the person we push there or the olympics in the case of the women so it's a great it's a great idea it's just uh as i was telling you off the air there's such a thing in a podcast but it's an expensive show to conduct uh and it's a tricky sunday night's a big television night so

we're forging one one step at a time through kind of the coffee house approach to music we're just going and building a loyal uh group of people like-minded uh people who want to see a show that's goodwill it's just a it's a show that's less less uh cutting than than most of the shows are it's it's very supportive that show and there's stories right it's a real i mean it's it i think it's the first time i've seen especially with hockey because you know football's pretty good at it baseball is sort of cut and dry i find it's a lot of numbers football's really good at let's do a feature on this guy and let's go back to his hometown

and I feel like this is the first time in hockey where we've actually seen let's do a feature on a town and oh by the way these three guys came from that town and I think that's sort of a cool angle to have. And you live in fear you miss someone right? Yeah, yeah but I'm with you on that

it's you know and it's I wish well lots of wishes but it's just I hope it makes it because it's And there's no reason why it won't, but it's just I always look at the money. Of course. Yeah, it's just one of those shows. We travel a big circus.

So podcasting is cheap, right? That's one of the reasons it's become such a success and such a go-to medium. Well, no one wants to buy it, but... They will now. Well, hopefully. Ron McLean's on. I mean, thankfully, we've had a sponsor for years that's believed in us from the very beginning. But it is almost impossible to sell.

We've tried and tried and tried. It's crazy. But I do think, Adam, it's the one that's just getting bigger and bigger. Podcasts are bigger and bigger. People really enjoy it. It's a way to just take that quiet time that I like. Speaking of podcasts, how many others, or have you been on any others? Yeah, Jonah Carey and I did one.

He's got, Jonah wrote Up, Up and Away. He's a Montrealer now living in Denver, Colorado. Most known for his baseball writing But he and I did one I did Jason Stradwick Edmonton Oilers That might have been television I guess it was just like this

So I've done a few I did Toronto Mike Oh yeah I've done Toronto Mike was really enjoyable And I got beer from Great Lakes Brewery So I'm looking around the room Sorry

They're not even a sponsor but we did get you a pack of hockey cards and I love that one of us might get the Sidney Crosby autographed one are these the Timmy's

these are the Timmy's yeah yeah so I have a dear friend who I play hockey with on Wednesday nights his daughter Holly he's got two children

Ben is a good hockey player but Holly's fanatical and they don't drink coffee the parents and they would go through Timmy's two three times a day

ordering coffees just to get the cards so they're great I'd craft dinner like once a day when I was a kid because they had those hockey cards

you could cut out of the pack absolutely me too Steve And McDonald's for the goalie masks. That was great. My uncle used to just throw the Kraft dinner away and collect the cards.

Yeah, absolutely. And when I would come over, I would help him out with that problem. Are we doing it? Oh, yeah. I think we got to open it. Oh, see what we got? You see the new commercial with Nathan McKinnon? Of course you did, but I love the you can't beat the one last year.

Where he gives the assistant captain over? Who goes first? Jesse, is your mic hot? Or can it be hot? He's hot. It is. Jesse Blake, what do you got? Always hot. Top of your pile.

First card. He's so gentle with opening those cards. Very dainty. Imagine him on this. I got an Eric Carlson. Wow. Don't give them all. You got an Eric Carlson.

We'll see who beats you. Okay. Adam? I'm going to counter with newly extended Craig Anderson in Ottawa. You don't beat Eric Carlson. No. Neither do I, although I got a hell of a defenseman. Dougie Hamilton of the Calgary Flames.

Very good. And I got captain of the Montreal Canadiens, Max Pacioretty. Carlson I got Jesse you won the first round one point Jesse who do you got now

round two round two Connor McDavid holy cow what a pack alright everyone else just put down your cards but wait

I got one we'll have to have an opinion on this who beats who I got I'm glad that you can compete because I can't I've got the game day

action Mitch Marner one which is from January 7th this year and it talks about he got second star honors and he dished out

three assists against the Montreal Canadians and that's it was just a highlight card so that's what I have so I'm definitely not beating Connor McDavid

on that one Steve I'm going to hold mine so you go next because then you can decide whether you think I beat McDavid well because I got a game day action as well

but it's Eric Carlson oh you're too late we could have doubled down if it was the first round but alright do you think do you think

that Tim Horton The 100th anniversary of the NHL Does that beat McDavid? I think it does Especially because it came from a Tim Horton pack That's like having the Ace of Hearts That's a joker Especially us Toronto sports media types

We would definitely pick a Maple Leaf Over Connor McDavid I agree, the guy who actually played for the Leafs Is better than the guy who wanted to play for the Leafs I agree, Adam Very good Ron McLean, you agree? Good

Steve, there's no... Good to know, good to know. Final card, Daniel Sedin. Damn, that's a good one, too. That is a very good one. I have Washington Capitals starting goaltender Braden Holpe. No, I'm not, sorry. So, I'm going to go...

I got Nathan McKinnon. So, again, I'm on Tim Horton's employee pack. So, I got McKinnon. I got Jeff Skinner. I don't think that beats Nathan. I think we got shafted, man. These two. I know.

With their cards. That makes a lot of sense, though, that Jesse would have the best back. yeah it's kind of so i'm in here here i'll give you another secret or a glimpse into how uh life is for you know saturday night um i'm trying to think of what to do with that uh take the knee and donald trump depending on where don goes right so i'm always thinking of puns so we're since we're playing cards i say to myself mcdavid's got the heart crosby's got the winning club and a ring full of diamonds don calls a spade a spade but luckily there's no trump it took me a long time

to get to that on Hockey Night in Canada I think you gotta do it that's the card you gotta go for that that's the card well I just did your podcast

is that not good enough I was hoping you would do it again I guess that's really good Adam don't you ruin this sorry the reason I asked you the podcast question never coming on again

no you're gonna see me you're gonna see me Saturday night I got nothing everyone goes he did it he did the thing

no um maybe I saw it wrong I could have swore you went on Strombo's podcast. Well, I went on his show. I don't know that it's a podcast. Oh, it's a show. So he was at the house. We had a fantastic, it's a CBC Sunday night radio show, Steve.

So he had the Colorado we're in performing at his place, and then we did the radio shows aired Sunday nights at 8 o'clock. It used to be funny when we were doing Rogers Hometown Hockey the first year, and Strombo had taken my job, which I loved. It's okay. I was fine. Except that he was tweeting about his stupid CBC radio show against our own Rogers Hometown Hockey.

I don't even think George is doing the tweets, right? But it was like everything was about his radio show, and so it should be. And he's actually on Rogers Hometown Hockey at that time. So he was a machine that year doing all kinds of different things. But I loved doing the interview with, and it was really, you know, great, gracious, typical George to have me come and do the show that was last spring. It's very broad, so it's not the greatest question, but what did you think of that whole saga? Well, I remember vividly, again, it's a lesson in permanence. Don't expect things to stay the way they are.

Be ready to get ready for change. I had just come from the Olympic Games in Sochi, and I got home on the Tuesday night, and on Friday I flew to Vancouver, and that's where Scott Moore met with me, and he said, Ron, because Rogers had just taken over the rights, he said, we're going to have changes. You won't be the host of Hockey Night in Canada. I can't tell you who the new host is yet.

He says, but we're creating a new show on Sundays, Hometown Hockey. And I thought, great. I loved the idea of that show. Honest to God, God strike me dead. I'd been at Hockey Night in Canada at that point 28 years. I was 55. I could kind of see the reasoning behind going younger, going different, if nothing else, because they were going to rebrand.

They were going to launch with this idea of destination television's over. We are now distribution television. You're going to get to see the team you want on the channel you want. So why not have a different host? It didn't faze me one bit. And then, as we all know, the strange thing that just happens is the perfect storm. In year one, five Canadian teams made it. But we were looking at Hockey Night in Canada, or if not at it, for it.

And we couldn't really find it because Ron and Don were on. And that was a bad thing, right? Because you got a taste of us. But we were down to five minutes. They were really trying to squeeze. They were trying to get rid of the whole thing. Um, and, and poor George was being asked to do all these things that just weren't comfortable for anybody. They were standing here, there, and everywhere on the set.

Uh, his strength is interviews and he wasn't really getting to do that. And if he was, he was being asked to interview owners. And he isn't the kind to ask the question of an owner that, you know, draws blood. So everything went against poor George. And, uh, because I was the incumbent, everything went in my favor. You know, it would just feel easier for all of us if Ron returns. Uh, and we carry on for a little while, but in my mind, Steve, you know, uh, David Amber, Steve Dangle, Darren Millard, somebody, um, should be hosting hockey night in Canada going

forward. Uh, Adam, well, it doesn't matter who it is. Uh, and, and I do Roger Solentown hockey. Uh, you know, that, that was what seemed like the ideal. Um, but there's a great synergy between the two too. So it's nice to have Saturday night to sort of tease Sunday. It's nice to take the community lessons I learned on Sunday back to Saturday and vice versa.

So, for a while, while I still have energy, that's a great doubleheader for now. Absolutely. Great to hear. And by the way, the correct answer for who takes over is Jesse Blake. Okay. Jesse's loaded. I should have picked him. Absolutely.

Future NHL owner, Jesse Blake. I don't know how he'll do it, but he'll be one of the team owners. Absolutely. For free. Yeah. Somehow. We'll be doing this podcast. He'll be owning them.

So, Jesse left. Jeremy Jacob bequeaths the Bruins to Jesse. He told us all to go screw. Yeah. I'm not going to argue with any of this. I have to thank you because you blew up my phone last year

I'm glad you remember the subject because as soon as Don heard it he forgot and started talking about Evgeny Malkin didn't he say he doesn't know you I wouldn't have had it any other way

it's a badge of honor to get the dusting from Don and Kipper Kipper gave him the goods too but yeah but yes Don's was even more uh dismissive who yeah and it's no and he was absolutely right I'm just I'm just honored that you oh I love to watch that broadcast it was I like I watched just about all of them uh Steve because I tune in you know that's a big part of my uh evening is usually uh I flip a little between Bob McCown and Tim and Sid but mostly Tim and Sid and then right

into the Hockey Central show at 6 30 is kind of my routine uh each weeknight so I see all the time And you're terrific. It's a great little template, the way you've created that. But that one was bang on. I mean, Jerome McGinley, you know, he missed the Hart Trophy for just a terrible reason. You know, an American writer didn't even have him on the ballot, and that's how he lost the Hart Trophy. So, like, do we actually, like, know? Because I've heard that rumor, but I didn't know.

No, it's in his book. I don't know who specifically the writer was, but one American writer did not list him in the top ten. And that one, you know, if he'd have been 10th even, that one vote would have given it to him over Jose Theodore. So the conspiracy theory I thought was that it was a Quebec writer. Yeah. It was an American writer who didn't have him on the list. That's crazy. That's crazy.

Yeah. He would have been, he would have had to have been one or two on any writer who knows anything about hockey. Absolutely. He almost dragged the flames like kicking and screaming into the playoffs that year. I mean, Jose Theodore was very good as well. He was, yeah. He was. yeah it's i don't know it's just crazy to me that he wasn't in the top 100 there were a few

i don't know the the guys who i kept ripping was uh like uh patrick hayne who's not even 30 yeah and jonathan taves who might have just turned 30 my who are uh excellent players but like joel thornton's not in there not you know i i love tapes too and uh but i agree it just wasn't time for jonathan to be on that list and that's okay he can be in the next 100 years yes yeah i get He might not be there to see it, but like, yeah, yeah. But that's, that's the thing is that most of that hundred wasn't. Wasn't that a special, uh, like just to see the guys on the ice at the all-star game in Los Angeles, the current players and then the alumni, uh, the greats of, you know, hockey. Uh, that was one of my, you know, we had a sit down with, uh, obviously, uh, Wayne and Mario and Bobby Orr and all that happened, uh, was really, uh, it was a terrific thing, the Los Angeles all-star weekend.

um you know from a from a toronto perspective this is as good a chance this next five-year period as i ever now the show's starting all right here we go as we've seen in since doug gilmore arrived yeah for this team to win and if it actually did what do you think what do you think we would see you've been in you've been an oakville resident for 28 years yeah what do you think we would see here well the thing about the gilmore 93 run and they had it again in 94 but that was a surprise that was cinderella right so this one's coming with expectations so the feeling will be a little more relief than ecstasy uh but it'll still be it'll still be ecstasy um i just feel like the talent level of this team the way they play uh they're going to like gretzky and his oilers and

like mario and those penguins they have everything you want you know even montreal when they won in 76. It was Le Fleur and a style of hockey that we were all so excited for because we just felt like, I like intimidation, but it seems to have run amok here and teams are losing because they're scared instead of losing because they're outplayed. With Montreal, it wasn't that way. Certainly with the Oilers or the Penguins of the early 90s. This Toronto team is worth the price of admission, win or lose. If they win, it will be a very...

I think Canada will embrace the team, much the way they embraced the Blue Jays. You know, I grew up in Alberta, and it was not our way to embrace Toronto. It just wasn't. I was a Leaf fan. I haven't gotten that impression online. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I haven't noticed. So you know.

But it'll happen, just the way Iginla, he warmed Edmonton's hearts. And even the 06 Oilers, by then, you know, the drought was on, and Calgary was actually getting behind Edmonton, which just seemed like, what's the matter with you people? You cannot be cheering for the arch enemy, but so it'll be, it'll be a special day if it happens, but they, they aren't, I mean, they're really good. They're really good. So I don't look at Calgary, Winnipeg.

I like Steve Mason's from my town Oakville and I know his grandmother Peg really well, but I don't see Grant Fuhrer in the mix on any of the four clubs yet. So can they be? Maybe, you know, but that's, and, and honestly Chicago won the Stanley cup with different goalies. Ante Niemi is a Stanley Cup winning goalie I haven't seen really Mark-Andre Fleury has won it and so did Matt I love Matt Murray I think he is absolutely

stellar but the four in Canada that look to be the favourites I think Ottawa caught lightning in a bottle they're great and they've got the best defenceman but I can't imagine them although jeez watching Hoffman and Stone in this year's pre-season with

what I said earlier about how stupid the pre-season can be And they looked like, wait a minute, they had Pittsburgh to double overtime in game seven. Maybe they are as good as that. Maybe it wasn't the karma of beauty or magic that went around the Anderson, Carlson, Clark MacArthur stories. But I like the Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto ahead of them right now. See, now my wife's not allowed to listen to this episode because yesterday she was picking her team for her hockey pool. And I told her Cam Talbot for her goalie pick.

Yeah, and I love Cam Talbot. But, you know, I just, yeah, he just hasn't had to, I mean, he was great in the couple of times he had a rough outing and he responded with a great game. So, you know, everyone has to prove themselves once. Eddie Belfort used to be criticized as can't win, you know, and then he did. Certainly no one said that of Cam Talbot. Everybody loves Cam Talbot.

But that's what you're going to need. I think you're going to need, in this, you know, era of fantastic offensive talents, you're going to need a fantastic goalie to get you the Cup. Do you think that that's going to, because that seems to be it's not like they're not, they don't have past successes, but in

Winnipeg and in Calgary, Mason and Smith, it seems like, okay well, can they still? Yeah. As I say, Eddie was kind of late when he won and you know it's, Mike knows in the case of Calgary, Mike Smith knows that he just has to be solid.

He doesn't have to steal games for a while. against McDavid and Dreisaitl and that crew, he's going to have to steal a game. And I think he can. I think he's had years where he was that great. For me, the greatest goaltenders are the ones who make an early impression. And in a way, Cam Talbot did do that with the New York Rangers when Lundquist went down.

They usually have a setback. Tom Barrasso had a setback. Grant Fuhrer had a setback. Marty Brodeur had a setback. Patrick Watt did. But they established themselves so quickly, like Matt Murray did, that you know he's real that he he took the league by storm and uh so it's easier for me as a journalist just going uh you know what have i seen empirical knowledge my experience says this

guy took the world by storm he's great freddie anderson uh was in a battle that seemed to me most of the time played played a lot though in his first year and uh steve mason took the world by storm obviously win the calder trophy so i can't knock steve and he's had the setback so And now maybe he's poised to get her done. Winnipeg seems like a good spot, too. I mean, I don't feel bad for Winnipeg because they have such an incredibly solid team. Yes. All the way.

One of the best lines in hockey. Yeah, absolutely. Line A, Wheeler, Shifley. And show me a team with. They're going to go with Brian Little for now, Steve. That's not bad either. No, and I love him. Yeah, they're going to put Line A and Wheeler on the Little line, it sounds like.

But they're, yeah, they're great. And then, as I said, when I watched Ottawa, I start to, you know, Kyle Turris is, you know, he was once going to be another Gretzky, you know, and he's good. So I tend to, everything about that Ottawa story was, you know, surreal last year. And maybe the fact that it was kind of the first time in such a situation that Pittsburgh's experience got them in the end. But, so I shouldn't rule them out. And I like their coaching staff.

I think that Boucher, Crawford are, as a one-two punch, one of the neatest coaching staffs in the game. They, for a couple of years now, have been a team where I've had to, like, kind of slapped my own wrist and been like, you can't cheer for the Sens. When the Flames went on their cup run, Flames fan. When the Oilers went on their cup run, Oilers fan. When the Sens made it, no, no, couldn't do it. Then the Hamburglar story started and that improbable run to the playoffs.

They were the lovable story of the whole NHL. Lightning in a bottle last year, but no, not allowed. And Brian Murray's spirit will be, you know, there's always a strange, mysterious thing about how that works that you know there's a way that Brian will be up there somehow pushing them forward so yeah they got a lot

to look forward to in Ottawa it's going to be and as I said I'm trying to go into the season and think okay well don't forget there's 24 other teams but the Canadian story is a good one it's a good one. Montreal that's that one's tough to see them doing well

you know when you have the greatest goalie obviously that gives you a chance in every game and maybe they're not as bad uh you know but uh they just you know if montreal had a traded gila fleur after three seasons you know it would be tantamount to the giving up on alex galchenyuk uh i i feel like don't give up on galchenyuk uh jonathan drewin you know he he may just be um he's at that same phase third year fourth year And so they could surprise us with that. You know, that's a wishy-washy on that one. But, you know, when I look at them, it's just hard to imagine losing Markov and Radulov.

It's hard to imagine them being a playoff contender. Or even a playoff contender. Even a playoff contender. The East is going to be so competitive. Tampa's going to be back. Florida's going to be back. Carolina's going to be sneaky. Hard to play against.

You know, they won't necessarily do much, but they'll be. Especially with Scott Darling. they've got really locked down goaltending and then Cam Ward's got experience I love their defense a lot of people

haven't even heard of but it's going to be one of the better ones they're like the blue jackets in terms of God I think who is Wendberg I don't even know

Josh Andrews just signed I don't know them half the time I look at the scoring and I think God how are they so good I mean they were second in the NHL

in goals against obviously Bobrovsky's great but they're a good team too and I think Carolina is starting to nudge towards that kind of sneaky good that nobody's ready for them

And that's a big thing, right? When you come in under the radar, people walk into Raleigh, think easy two points, and leave with their tail between their legs. And I think that's going to happen a lot this year. So that's why I think it's hard for Montreal. And Jeff Skinner is going to be back. I mean, he seems to be back to Jeff Skinner. Yeah, Sebastian Ajo scored 24, 26 goals, whatever it was last year.

Definitely a dark horse. They're definitely my dark horse. So the loophole and Hossa situation, I want to get this in before, because I did tease it. We need to make sure we get to it. Both of them have been now put on the- By the way, that's a story. don't forget your thought how we do we have it cut off here yeah well i mean we we can i i mean i i

hope you're not getting tired of us i just no no i'm gonna tell you this story uh my first world track and field championships in tokyo japan uh we went on the air uh we we record stuff all day long and then we package a three-hour show for saturday afternoon on cbc and we're promoting and coming up the world's fastest man leroy burrell and don't forget when we come back in a few minutes, you'll see the fastest man in the world, Leroy Burrell. Leroy Burrell's 986. He's on the track coming up. And this went on for two and a half

hours as we're packaging. Now we're getting ready to tape the last block of the show, and it's high jump. And I said to the director and the producer, I said, did we run the Leroy Burrell race that we were talking so much about? And I hear a lighter going off. The director, Dave McCaskill,

smoked. Rob McCaskill. He smoked. And right away, his lighter started flicking because he knew we'd screwed up. We hadn't put the Leroy Burrell so uh so now we got we're live on the air to canada and it's five and six in the morning we're all so tired we've been there since 9 00 a.m we've been there like whatever that is 15 hours or more and so anyway we got it in so to answer the question about joffrey loople and uh the nhl has uh gone through the second opinion process and deemed that in fact joffrey loople is on loople is unfit to play so he can be on the injury reserve or ir um the thing the only

slight question I'll have for Elliot and whoever's on Saturday, because I'll probably quit, all my stuff will have been used up, is how do the doctor, in the NFL and the NBA, doctors become team doctors by bidding, tendering for that opportunity.

So there's a tremendous amount of corruption in terms of how the owners of the teams and the teams themselves could influence the doctor to be pro-team in their ruling. This has been outruled by the NHL seeking a second opinion. Again, Bettman is smart.

He doesn't want that risk. But make sure that the doctors who work for the teams are independent and not having, haven't bid for the right for the publicity of their own office, their own, you know, practice. Because then there's the possibility of some hanky-panky.

Lou Lamorello is a, you know, thoroughly honest guy. It would have been wrong to even accuse him, but he's also, you know they've got the history of finding ways to get around the cap and so they should you know every team's trying to do that i'm glad to hear that it's uh it's legitimate but that's the you know in concussions our biggest fear right now is uh are the team doctors really uh independent and trustworthy because they wanted for advertising sake to be that team doctor that's a bit shaky

fair enough wow there's a different perspective so i think we do have to cut off because i do You know that we have a show coming in after us. Oh, good. Who's next? They're the wrestling show. Oh, great. Tom Turnbuckle. Yeah, good.

Love you. Yes. Thank you, folks, guys. Well, they moved actually, Ron, I have to say. They moved out of the way for us so we could accommodate the second hour of the show. So we have to give them a big round of applause. Yeah. Really appreciate it.

A legitimate studio here. But, Ron, thank you so much for being so gracious with your time, for waiting half an hour downstairs because we couldn't get it figured out. I blame myself. No, it's not your fault. Half an hour? No, I haven't even... Oh, my God.

I was 20 minutes, but I... Oh, my God! I've only been with Rogers now for three years, so I don't expect him to know me. They can't just let you in. They can't use a visitor's pass. I'm not going to just walk into... Yeah, where's my visitor's pass?

Oh, you took it from me. Jesse has it. I'll return it. Jesse has McDavid and Carlson and my pass. Oh, my God. When was the last time you had to show anybody your license? Oh, I can't get into the CBC building either, Steve. Really?

Humility is another... Here's the last lesson in life. Humility. it's one of the golden uh pillars uh you know that'll keep you good so you don't just point to the giant picture mine's gone i'm rogers now right so the cbc wall of fame is gone for me and thankfully because they would just give me a bigger head than probably the beer does well ron uh thank you so much for your time this was so much fun best of luck on both hockey night in canada and hometown hockey uh and we i know i can speak for all of us when i when i say i we all hope

that we have the pleasure of working with you on a like at some point somewhere down the road more than just this show I mean I think it's everybody wants to get close

and understand what makes you tick because you're so great at what you do Adam doesn't mean that he wants to take your job no I do I told you

I'm looking for somebody to mercy a little mercy I hope it's you Adam and I hope it's you Steve and Jesse well

not that but I would we would love to learn from you and not to you should do Hockey Night in Canada until you're dead Ron seriously

so thank you for making time for our little show we genuinely genuinely appreciate it and I can't tell you how many people messaged me like DM'd me going you gotta tell Ron that he and Don did so much for me there's a guy named Yak Attack from San Francisco who said you just gotta know

I watched all their clips and I love them and please pass them most of them wanted to ask about the picture laughing my effing ass off that's the song now you can put the music to the picture we'll be back Thursday thanks so much Ron McLean

And thank you, Eric Crime, for also doing the production on this show because it was helpful. We actually did it from a real studio. This is the studio I used to deliver Bob McCowan's tea to. Large tea, milk, double sugar. Jim Kelly, one cream. Follow the guys on Twitter at Steve underscore Dangle, at Adam W-Y-L-D-E, and at Jesse Blake. The Steve Dangle Podcast. Brought to you by Panago Pizza.

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