The Steve Dangle Podcast - Senators Trade Matt Murray to the Toronto Maple Leafs | July 12, 2022

Episode Date: July 12, 2022

On this emergency edition of the Steve Dangle Podcast, the Ottawa Senators have traded Matt Murray to the Toronto Maple Leafs. What now? Originally aired: July 12, 2022 Watch the full episode here: https://youtu.be/fPXfvUb2bZY Visit https://sdpn.ca for merch and more. We've joined The Athletic and you can too! Hit the link to subscribe: https://theathletic.com/sdp Individuals must be 19 years of age or older to open a Sports Interaction account. Terms and Conditions apply. Any opinion expressed is not advice, a promise or suggestion that increases the chance of winning. Gambling can be addictive, please play responsibly. To learn more, visit: https://help.sportsinteraction.com/hc/en-us/articles/216779528-Responsible-Gaming-Self-Limitation-Self-Exclusion. Or if you have concerns about a gambling problem, call ConnexOntario 1-866-531-2600. Sports Interaction is subject to successful AGCO registration and execution of an Operating Agreement with iGaming Ontario. The Eligible iGames conducted and managed by iGO are only available to those physically present in the Province of Ontario. Visit this episode's sponsors: https://sportsinteraction.com/sdpn Follow us on Twitter:@Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram:@SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Steve Dangle Podcast, powered by Sports Interaction, Canada's sports book. S-D-P-P, The Steve Dangle Podcast, with your hosts, Steve Dangle, Adam Wilde, and Jesse Blake. Let's go! Okay, so a special episode time because we figured, you know, with the Matt Murray trade situation happening, It will get buried in whatever happens on Wednesday for free agency. We know this. So we figured let's hit it now. Let's talk about it.

Everybody else is in the lead up to free agency. Matt Murray comes to Toronto. It had been rumored for days, but here is the actual trade. It's Matt Murray and his salary, 25% retained for Matt Murray. Matt Murray and a third and a seventh. And honestly, the reaction is mixed, but I want to start with this from at hockey underscore brunch. I thought this tweet was funny, even though it's definitely anti-leafs said. So to be clear, the Senators traded for the best available young player in the league and offloaded the worst contract in the league to their biggest rival.

Still have all their first and second round picks going forward and didn't lose a single prospect. How is that possible? Those two things are very well. I mean, is Dabrinkit the best young player in the league? Tradeable? Well, available. Available. Okay.

Yeah, he said best player available. I think that's fair. Yeah. He was kind of the best player on the trade market. And, you know, to say they had all their picks and prospects going forward, they did trade the first round pick seventh overall for that. But yeah, I mean, listen, I think we need to start with the fact that the Ottawa Senators have done pretty damn well the last few days.

They've had a very good few days and they're determined to be relevant and they're, they're in on everyone. Like when was the last time you heard the Sens were in on anybody? You know what I mean? They're in on Drew. Why? You're not competitive. You're in on Uyghur.

Why? You're not competitive. You're in a Debrinkat. Why? You're not competitive. Oh, wait a second. If you get all three of those guys and you got a decent core and you got all your, oh, okay.

Jeez. The Sens are kind of legit. They got some work to do, but who doesn't? As it stands right now, like I wouldn't say that they're like a playoff team. Maybe you start having that conversation when Drew and Uyghur show up if they do. But it's I mean, it's nice to see them in the picture because they've been kind of a complete non-factor for three years. The Atlantic's going to be ridiculous. The fourth spot in the Atlantic is kind of up for grabs because if you look at Boston, you're saying, OK, if they're missing half the roster to start the season, there's an opportunity for somebody to hop in there.

Like you're probably locking in Tampa, Florida, Toronto, and then you have this four spot that's kind of open to whoever's going to grab it. If Pierre Dorian thinks Ottawa has got a shot here, then why not just go for it and get Jeru and Uyghur? Why not? I'm very, I'm very impressed by what Dorian's done over the last couple of days,

for sure. He's taken advantage of his own situation, which used to kind of work against them. But, you know, it's interesting. People got mad yesterday. We were talking about Matt Murray and I said, listen, you know, Ottawa is not a, you know, a big spending team. And people are offended by that because we just said, listen, they got to bring cat.

Oh, they are. They're in on the. They are then. Well, I think what it is, is they're not a dead money team. And what I mean by that is they're not going to be. Yeah, they might spend money on players, but they want to spend money on players that are actually going to play. They're not a team that's going to retain a lot. And a lot of Leaf fans are like, why couldn't we just get them to simply retain half of Matt Murray's salary?

Well, because they couldn't do that. They can't do it. They got to use that money elsewhere. Their internal budget is less than the salary cap. They can't do it. And it's not like you just go to the family and say, the Melnick family, simply give us more. Eugene has passed away.

So that means that there are budgets that are set, and that's the budget, and that's all you're getting. And we don't know how that ownership situation is going to shake out. But I can tell you this, while you are working through somebody's will, while you're working through somebody's assets things kind of just stay flat it's not like you know they got the money they got the you know and the Leafs got the two picks out of it and that is supposed to be the compensation that the extra holding back of salary would have been I mean listen at the end of the day there are a lot there are a lot of situations where this could work out there are but it's an

enormous risk i'm less worried about whether or not matt murray is good and more worried about is matt murray healthy and if they're heading into the season and they're going out and getting another goalie but it's obviously not going to be a very expensive goalie which means it's obviously not going to be a very good goalie matt murray is the starter this dude played 20 games last year peter marazic played 12 games the season prior the leafs gave him three years And it was a disaster. The very next year, after moving down 13 spots to get rid of him, they go and get a guy who played 20. And like, well, yes, he didn't play very many games, but he actually played quite well. That's Morazic. That's Morazic. It's Carolina Morazic. Morazic the difference was Morazic put up those numbers on a good team the Senators for as fun as they could be at times and who knows what they'll be going forward last year especially

on defense they're awful so the fact that anyone has anything good to say about Matt Murray at all in his play is wonderful but dude it's an 82 game season if you go out and get By the way, I've been saying Korpisalo a lot. I didn't realize he was an 877 last year. Morazic wasn't particularly good either. But they get Shelgren back there. Is he the full-time backup behind an injury-prone goalie? Oof.

Is Joseph Wohl back there behind an injury-prone goalie? Oof. I don't know. Can you go out and get Simsonov? uh can you make a deal for yes i know it's me saying it but it's actually quite practical reimer like i even reimer i think might be out of their price range i i think i think uh this team is is gonna go you know there was a meme yesterday uh goaltending is fake just get malcolm like i honestly kind of think that's the plan yeah maybe not malcolm specifically but like i don't know

goaltendings we'll we'll figure it out i don't know and they'll just they'll just go out there and try to win games a billion to one or a bill sorry a billion to a million seven yeah seven all right i don't know we'll go ahead no i i gotta there's a couple things with the trade that like stand out to me uh one thing is on august 13th 2013 uh kyle dubas hired john elkin to come on as goalie mentor for the sioux greyhounds and his goalie at the time for the sioux greyhounds was matt murray and matt murray and john elkin worked together when matt murray was a kid and that was his goalie coach and then he brought him on to the sioux greyhounds to be the goalie mentor. And then in 2022, Kyle Dubas goes out and he hires John Elkin to come to the

Toronto Maple Leafs organization. And then a couple of weeks later, he goes out and gets Matt Murray to become the new starting goaltender for the Toronto Maple Leafs. And with the whole deal, I just wonder how much he's blinded by these people he's spent decades within the in the hockey world and was there not a better option besides these gentlemen that you already knew that you have a pass with what is there not a better way to spend this money besides hey familiar faces I know this worked in the Sioux so let me try it again with the exact coach and the exact goalie I think you probably sorry Steve do you want to go well I was going to say it's Kyle Dubas it's Sheldon Keefe it's Wes Clark it's Victor Carnero it's John Elkin it's Matt

murray it's michael bunting it's uh help me out like jack campbell just jack campbell it's how isn't nick uh nick how isn't darnell nurse leaf i just i just need to know how did he got nick richie yeah nick like it it keeps going it keeps going and like the the feedback is often yeah but they're good not all of them not all the front office guys like listen uh they work together and they make amazing regular season teams they have you know it's on two players by the way with a london knight and a zurich lion and uh a zurich lion that's what we're calling and another and another london knight who uh was also i think a general um that's tavares and and you know a colonna rocket he was never a knight you're right yeah uh i was only ever a gen

matthews a zurich lion that's what we need to go with from now on i like that i think i think jesse you you make an interesting point was there not better options i think that there were i think if anybody looks at this and goes, this is what the Leafs wanted. No, this was not their first choice. We know that it wasn't their first choice. We, you know, we heard draft scuttlebutt. We know it wasn't their first choice. We know that it probably wasn't their second or third choice as well. This is what they had left. Campbell was going to have a long-term contract. The Leafs were not comfortable with five years. Yeah. Could they have paid him 5 million bucks? Sure. But they were not interested in a five-year contract for a 31-year-old who was not in an NHL until he was

26 and had two good months last year. And that's called what it is, right? And then, so you don't want to do five years on Campbell. You're interested in Kemper. Well, Kemper doesn't want to come to Canada. He wants to go to Washington. He's where he's going. Georgiev's already traded. Billy Husso's already traded. Marc-Andre Fleury re-signs in Minnesota. And all of a sudden, it's like, what are you left with, right? And the people are like, well, maybe there were better trades out there maybe there were but the leafs had a different sort of scope of the market at that point i think honestly they already tried to trade for mark andre flurry i think that i'm sure that that was probably one of the guys on their on their list and he re-signed before

he even made it to market they couldn't even should have should have tampered harder yeah everything you just said sounds to me like that's on the gm you know like if there was deals out there and other GMs made them why couldn't Kyle Dubas well maybe he doesn't believe in the trade I mean who so who so is one that I get I get that there's risk there but it was only a three-year contract that Detroit signed him to I think he's less of a risk than Matt Murray uh honestly um I agree with Georgiev as well Georgiev too yeah 100% I mean the thing is with Georgiev is is he a starter Matt Murray's been a starter he's won cups so and you know you know how NHL general managers are and they're all the same don't tell me dubas is any different they love a guy with a

ring been there done that they love well and he's got two but you know what i'm saying right so well he's won he's got that championship pedigree oh and and and i'm and i'm not trying to denigrate matt murray because there are some positives here let me bring some up here because i wanted to look at this and go okay honestly what do they see and ian mendez friend of the show writer for the athletic ottawa senators reporter said leaf fans there was a six-week stretch from january to february last season where matt murray was dynamite 941 save percentage in that window then he a couple poor starts and then the concussion he's going to come to toronto very motivated and then money puck uh has uh the gold gold saved above expected

matt murray comes in at oh we just got to find him here he comes in you're he smokes jack campbell and peter marazic what's that he smokes jack campbell and peter marazic in this in the statistic absolutely absolutely he's a plus goal saves against uh i'm trying to find him yeah i cannot find this yeah there's so much information out there to me it's it's all uh it's so much less to do with matt murray and everything to do with circumstances surrounding matt murray like he struggled in recent years and uh if you look at the full scope it's not shocking at all that he struggled i mean there's the emotional side of things he lost his father and that that affected him very adversely right as as it would anyone he suffered some injuries he changed scenery he

you know had some disappointing circumstances with that change of scenery he struggled he had some more injuries he got the concussion um he had to be medically cleared um or had his had his medicals evaluated just to get this trade uh to go through so when i see circumstances surrounding matt murray i'm worried about his lack of support in toronto like they go out and they got curtis sanford he's the new goalie coach they got john elkin there who he's familiar with that's going to help but at the end of the day who's the other guy because you're always a moment away from having to rely on the other guy. Go look at Pavel François

and how big he was for Colorado in these playoffs. Dude went 6-0. 6-0. And part of that is because his team was incredible. I think the Leafs have a pretty good team in front of their goaltending as well. But you need that other guy. François made some other saves.

And I got to say, I'm disappointed with the lack of creativity and the lack of complexity in the trade. I really thought there would be a third team. I really, really thought there would be a third team. And I mentioned the Chicago Blackhawks, I think, on a recent episode. I don't remember if it was yesterday, the previous one. I think that's a miscalculation. I don't think Chicago has any interest in helping teams facilitate these things. Because even though they have the cap space, let's remember, they're one of the league's mightiest teams financially, but they had a disastrous year in terms of attendance, and they've had a number of settlements and fines. So that's going to hurt them financially, and I'm sure they're not stoked to be like, yeah, sure, we'll take this pick, and we'll eat several million dollars for you. I don't think it's something they're interested in.

arizona at like at this point do they need more picks i don't know like they also they also don't want to be a third team here they also don't want dead money no they'll take your dead money if they don't have to spend much but they don't want to pay dollar for dollar they'll take that suit if you own 750 grand on a 10 million dollar contract you know and he's retired or lti art or whatever it is but they don't want to do the one for one oh i have to pay him real dollars no i'm not interested in that well and pay for that and Kerfoot who I uh threw out there because he has a 3.5 million cap hit uh but he only makes 750,000 against the cap if the Sens get all the guys that they're going out and getting um they're not going to have any trouble uh getting above the cap floor

and also his partial no trade uh maybe he just said no yeah so just because there's reasons to it doesn't mean it's not a little disappointing so i had i had the money puck stuff pulled up but weirdly all the ottawa goaltending from last year they're the only team that's disappeared that's why i'm making funny faces the camera there was it was all there and now it's not there so i was okay we can we can move on i can't see that but but um you know then you look at so i gave you ian mendez's take and then i'm going to give you justin bourne and justin bourne uh came up in the analytics era right he's a big time believer in the analytics thing um obviously his father played in in the in the show won cups with the islanders justin went to the echl i have to give you his

resume before because people are like well he's just a guy on tv no justin bourne is not a fucking guy on tv he's brilliant and he was also a handsome fucking guy on tv yeah he was also a uh a member of the leafs organization under duvis he was a i believe uh in in the coaching staff for the marlies And so here's what he said. Boy, I do not get the Murray thing. Trade screams, analytics people throwing their hands up and going, nobody can figure out who's a good goalie anyway. Maybe Murray bounces back and hey, free assets or something.

But Matt Murray at 4.68 times two, I just cannot believe that that's the plan. Maybe I'm missing something about what you can do with the deal if things go sideways. But Murray has played 88 games in three years and hasn't played overly well. Was okay last year. Okay, got it. But the bet, the bet must be that it was Ottawa. It was a bad situation and the injuries were bad as well. I just don't like the use of the cap that way. And I think it's hard to disagree with him. I know that Murray's relationship internally with the senators wasn't good. That's been now widely reported and it wasn't before, which is interesting. So that situation never really worked. You're coming off playing with Crosby, Crosby, Crosby, Crosby, Malkin. It should be Crosby. Crosby, Malkin, Letang. I get it. I get it. I get why going to Ottawa would be a tough one. But yeah, there's plenty of reasons to be skeptical about this and not

bend yourself into a pretzel to try to rationalize it. Now, is there some upside here? Absolutely. But anybody that says, you know what? I'm not really going to question this. This is good. I said last night on Twitter, I think the thing I'm most interested in is the fact that Dubas is like, fuck it. I'm sticking to the plan no matter what. And he's going to see this through. And I respect it. But as a Leaf fan, I'm terrified because I don't know. As you said, Steve, it's an 82 game season.

It's been a long time since he's approached 40. Listen, if this works out, Shanahan, sorry, Dubas looks like a genius. Shanahan looks like a genius. It's July 12th, 2022. too. I'm planting my flag in the ground right now. If this doesn't work, Dubas is fired. Shanahan's fired. Both of them. Both of you gone. You've been here for a long time. You had no success. Gone. Both of you. You approve this. You approve this. You're at the helm the entire time. Both of you out. To just put an asterisk on that, let's say it doesn't work out,

but they're able to make a move in season that does. You don't fire them that. no like it all comes down to did they succeed or not right the results the result i mean like i'm not stupid they're putting it out there that they're looking they're still looking for goalie help you know what i mean and i i think if i think if they can sign a goalie tomorrow they will um and if that doesn't work uh they'll try to get another one in season they might try to get another one in season anyway oh boy jesse you were gonna say something i was yeah just to steve's point about them being fired i think for sure this is dubas's last starting goaltender i don't think there's any other way to look at it because if it works out then matt murray carries you to success

and that's the guy you're gonna stick with over the next couple of years and if it doesn't work out. This was probably his last try and he's gone after that. So it's a huge risk. And if he believes like, this is what I want to stake my reputation on, like go ahead and do it and we'll see how it plays out. I think, I think there's a couple of things that you're going to see online because the, the online, it tends to be extreme, right? It's either I am extremely not, I'm extremely not okay with this trade, or I am extremely okay with this trade. And how can you not be look at this number i found and and i think that it's fair on both sides but i think that truth is somewhere up the middle and i want you to be weary of of uh you know because here's the

thing if matt murray's great and he takes him to the second or the third round oh fucking dubas is a genius well no he made a bet and i don't think i don't think even you know looking back on this season next year when we're talking on july the 11th or 12th or whatever it is today next season And let's say if the Leafs have been successful and they got past that first round barrier, based on this move alone, you can't be like, well, Dubas is a genius. He knew all along. He doesn't know. Nobody knows. And anybody that tells you they know is lying to you. They don't know. We don't know. Is Matt Murray capable? We've seen that.

Absolutely. He's capable. We just don't know if his body can hold up anymore. And then anybody that says, well, you know, this is a terrible trade, blah, blah, blah. I guess they could be proven right. But the reality is that this is still a very good hockey team. And if they were to go that route, Steve, that you mentioned and replace management, I don't think the next person is going to come in and blow it up. I think they'll tinker. I think they'll change the focus and say that focus didn't work. Move a few players in, move a few players out and continue to build around Matthews and Marner. And by the way, there are some major implications. Steve, you touched on it in your video for Austin Matthews specifically, but Nylander as well, who's up in a couple of years too. So can we talk about that a little bit? Because there is 24 months less than until that contract expires. expires yep and you have to show progress or uh you know the league's reigning mvp 60 goal score

first one in over a decade is gone he's potentially gone you know uh this time next year he could be already signed to an extension that makes him a leaf for life or makes him a leaf till at least 32 till he's mounted which is cool or yeah something like that you know because i don't think he's into the whole long-term thing I think he's smart and pays attention to other sports and he's like oh these NBA guys sure make a lot of money but you know what am I signing the eight year deal for um but I don't understand why you know LA keeps getting brought up and people are talking about them you know uh Freed said they're gonna win the the Pacific he said someone told them that on the draft floor um i don't think they're far away at all i know they didn't win

in the first round does that sound familiar um you know but uh they're gonna open up cap space and i'm worried uh i'm worried about losing this guy i'm worried about losing this guy because if this doesn't work it's not just you know i'm sick of toronto this isn't this isn't gonna work I can't do it here. It's, oh, this team has no idea what they're doing. Well, and I don't think it'll ever come to that point

because I feel like, do I feel like he could leave? And absolutely. But I think that first off, what's going to happen, here's what I believe is going to happen next year. The Leafs are going to make the playoffs.

They'll get bounced in round one or two, at least the way it looks like at this point. Jeez, that's unacceptable. But then... What are you talking about? But then, oh, okay. So we're all skeptics,

but then I'm not allowed to say that they'll probably get bounced around one or two. No, you don't know. I thought we just came to the conclusion that we don't know what's going to happen. If this works out, they get to the second round. Even if it doesn't, my point here is that next summer, if he does sign an extension, let's say this all works out great,

Nubis is still here, Matt Murray's got a Vesna trophy in his cabinet, it's fantastic. The chances of Austin Matthews signing more than a one-year contract extension are very small and the reason for that is the cap jumps in 2025 you got to remember that right so so for leaf fans as though your anxiety wasn't heavy enough this guy's probably not going to sign for uh for much more than a year or two to extend even if things do work out because he wants to make the most money possible who can blame him right it's it's once again we're in july i had someone earnestly tweet at me oh come on like we're not gonna know till april relax and

i'm like okay oh just relax then just relax till april come on colorado didn't need to be told this in the offseason tampa didn't need to be told this good teams don't be don't need to be told out relax it'll work itself out yeah because they know one one final thing on the matt murray goaltending thing for all for all last season for as good as the leafs were they didn't receive good goaltending for four months out of the five months of the regular season the nhl the reason they lost in the first round wasn't because of goaltending the reason they had a successful regular season wasn't because of goaltending. They received under 900 save percentage

throughout most of the regular season. So when it comes down to it, it probably won't be goaltending that's the deciding factor on the success or the not success of this team. And we'll see how it plays out. But I think it'll be around the edges of the roster and the superstars showing up or not showing up.

Give me a 905 goaltender. Give me a 905 goaltender. If Matt Murray's a 905 goaltender the whole season, they're fine. That'd be better than what Campbell delivered for most of last season. Agreed. And if he can be a nine 50 goaltender in the playoffs, like he was in Pittsburgh,

that would be great. Then we're good. Very quickly. I just want to throw this out there. Ilya Samsonov is, is a, is a free agent. He didn't have a great year last year,

but maybe that's a potential option for the Leafs that they did not know was going to be available. Yeah. And be, excuse me, or a lot. Somebody call Alan Walsh. Yeah,

sure. Yeah. Hold on. New Halak Spring. Let's go. The other thing I want to ask you guys, and I just want to ask this as a question. The Leafs were apparently in on Marc-Andre Fleury at the trade

deadline. I don't know why that deal fell apart, but has that been reported? Do we know why that deal fell apart? Because it wasn't because it leaked. It leaked after. The asking price was too high for them. For the Leafs? Are you going to say

the Leafs should trade for Murray and reunite them? No, what I'm saying is I think maybe they made a mistake there. If the asking price was too high for the Leafs, I mean, I know it included Matt Nyes, but I wondered, could you not have excluded Matt Nyes and Brandon Hagel and made a deal there? If you could have had Fleury in Toronto and sold him on the city, you just signed for three and a half million, right? I don't know. I just wonder if that was, I'm not saying it would have been perfect or whatever, but it does feel like maybe there was a missed opportunity there. I don't know if I'm wrong on that one. No, that goes back to the conversation of there were better options out there and other teams scooped up those better options before the Leafs could get there. Right, right. Lastly, this just broke

and it will probably get lost in the shuffle. This was supposed to be exclusively Matt Murray boys, but I do want to ask you about this because it seems icky to me. The Philadelphia Flyers are buying out Oscar Lindblom. I mean, a year off of cancer. Like

did the flyers do it? Did the flyers do it? Yes. They just, yeah. Well, then it's bad. Okay.

Well, they just placed them on unconditional waivers for the purposes of a buyout. No, the good story, bad team can't have them. Bye. And they said in recognition of Oscar's inspiration of the city of

Philadelphia, the flyers announced today that, uh, uh, we're going to pay him not to play for us. charities will make a donation of 100 grand in oscar's name to a local organization that supports families impacted by cancer so they knew this was going to be a bad pr move yeah and i mean it those organizations will benefit from that money and it's good um

i gotta say i it is icky but by nhl standards at least they had the foresight to see that it was a key and at least some good could come from it people didn't have to jump on them for it yeah yeah i just i look at that and i go you couldn't you couldn't ir the guy i don't know it just seems odd to me or just stick to your guy he's he's very young is he not yes he is yeah but i guess they want to go out and spend big tomorrow so it's 25 that's a mistake that's a terrible idea you're the flyers you don't know what you're doing with money that's right well uh just thought i'd let you know that okay so listen the reality is we're gonna leave it at this nobody knows how this is gonna work out um if you're on the side of i don't think it's gonna

work out i think you're probably in the majority uh but that doesn't mean it's impossible that it couldn't go completely the other way and you never know what happens tomorrow right and you never know who becomes available at the trade deadline who saw uh mark andre flurry and vegas breaking up ever and they did abruptly for nothing very very abruptly so we'll see what happens uh we'll see what comes and obviously the leafs still have a good team relax you all made it for the best of toscala years anyway right right all right so we'll wrap it up there um and we will be back on thursday to wrap up day one of free agency and then friday to wrap up day two of free agency it's going to be a wild one and also cj show coming out on thursday as well i'm sure cj is

going to have some unbelievable insights for you and we'll see how this all shakes out draft stream on sports net oh that's right tomorrow afternoon i believe it starts at 11 30 should be going to three me and grab might do another video the steve dangle podcast powered by sports interaction follow the guys on twitter at steve underscore dangle at adam wylde and at jesse blake