The Steve Dangle Podcast - Shanagain | May 8, 2024

Episode Date: May 8, 2024

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, the Leafs speak at locker clean up day (00:00), Shanahan's future and what will happen at Friday's press conference? (24:00), do the Leafs move on from Sheldon Keefe? (38:00), the Ottawa Senators hire Travis Green (47:00), fighting about the Ted Lindsay award nominations (55:00), San Jose wins the draft lottery (01:23:00), Carolina vs New York go to double OT (1:34:00), and Boston and Colorado go up 1-0 (1:39:00). Join SDP VIP: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0a0z05HiddEn7k6OGnDprg/join Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/thestevedanglepodcast Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sdpvip/subscribe Visit this episode's sponsors: Tim Hortons Guests across Canada can start collecting the NEW Tim Hortons Greatest Duos Trading Cards set! Each card in the set consists of two icons - hockey rivals, teammates, family members and more - connected in a unique way. The set features a mix of current NHL® players, retired legends, and women superstars. Guests also have a chance to find a Collect to Win Golden Prize card and win exciting prizes, such as a 2024 Hyundai ELANTRA or Hyundai VENUE vehicle, or a trip to Montreal to watch a Canadiens game and meet Nick Suzuki. Visit a participating Tims location or the Tim's App for more details. https://timhortons.ca/TimsC2W Get 20% off + free shipping with the code DANGLE at https://ca.manscaped.com/dangle. That’s 20% off + free shipping with the code DANGLE at https://ca.manscaped.com/dangle. For the best your boys have ever looked, trust MANSCAPED. Go to http://shadyrays.com and use code SDP for 50% off 2 or more pairs of polarized sunglasses. Visit https://www.betterhelp.com/sdp today to get 10% off your first month. That’s https://www.betterhelp.com/sdp. Follow us on Twitter: @Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram: @SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Join us on Discord: https://discord.com/invite/MtTmw9rrz7 For general inquiries email: [e-mail] Reach out to https://www.sdpn.ca/sales to connect with our sales team and discuss the opportunity to integrate your brand within our content! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And this last one, I don't know how Tim Horton knows, but it's Mason McTavish and Trevor Zegers. And if you follow my NHL 24 streams, you know, we just traded Mason McTavish away from the Leafs for Mo Sider. Oh! I think it's some sort of serendipity there that I got his card. Man, what's Steve Eisenman doing? I know, right?

He's trading Mo Sider. He wanted the center. How'd you get him in the first place? I forget what we flipped, but like a bunch of picks and maybe JT or something like that. Jesse's first move is always to trade John Tavares. It makes a lot of sense. So listen, hockey's greatest duos trading cards.

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Toronto, Eurobasketball. I was thinking about Shai Gilgis-Alexander. No, that's not here. I know it's not here, but he's Canadian. In some alternate reality, he would be a Toronto Raptor. Not only is he not here, he couldn't, I think, by NBA standards, be farther away from here. I know, but I'm just talking about he's Canadian. He's the best player in the NBA Canadian, right?

Think of how pathetic the Leafs are, right? How pathetic they are. easily the best toronto men's sport team going right yeah easily yeah it's pathetic that's bad the leaves ah thank god for the pwhl how good are the argos bad i mean last season i don't know if they were i didn't follow the argos really last we won't get into it but their uh their their main quarterback was just suspended for something pretty bad too so all right yeah so oh yeah and deservedly so we're all pwhl toronto yes we are we're not all that we are nat spooner truthers that's the only team that exists i love i do love the growing trend of whenever you're like man

toronto sports and everyone from the pwhl goes don't you lump us in with that nonsense no they're right number one c they're gonna play in our uh coca-cola coliseum yeah it's gonna be sold out like it's gonna be a lot of fun they got to pick their opponent yeah uh nat spooner's kid did you see did you see the video they they did are they on minnesota damn so nat spooner nepo baby had a child throw a ball and whichever basket the ball landed into that's the opponent no they get through the ball and it landed in the minnesota bucket and they're like minnesota man if you let a leafs player do that like if that was available the nhl would be like boston florida boston it bounces three times off the rim and goes to boston yeah yeah um i i

actually we jesse and i ran into natalie spooner during game three uh when we were at the game and we were in the same box as she was and she was just talking about how great the first season has gone um and i read a statistic later that her 20 goals in 24 games are equivalent uh in an 82 games schedule as 68 goals wow so toronto has the two greatest goal scorers in hockey on earth right now dude i love it isn't that cool i love it yeah super cool i love that hey hey that's we love this we love this um so uh yesterday uh we had and i won't get into this yet we got we got game two with the canes and rangers we had uh the avalanche and stars and obviously game one of the panthers bruins has already happened but none of that matters because the toronto maple leaf

spoke to the meeting yeah right the media now i uh i i pulled some clips from this and a lot has been made of these clips and steve you actually did a video on the sdpn channel yeah and it's really good uh but i want to i want to roll through them why are you laughing it was not on the sdpn channel i was on the steve dangle i was on the steve dangle yeah that sounded wrong but i was okay all right right right yeah because leaf stuff goes on the no i did that makes sense I did the round two prediction. I get it. The round two prediction, which also did great.

I want to start with the quote that has made the most headlines based on how it reads on Twitter. And you got to remember whenever you read these quotes that if you see something and it's like, wow, that's completely outrageous. You might want to see if you can find the video on it because it may nine times out of 10. It's not as outrageous. The 10th time where it is outrageous, just as outrageous in person is is I mean, it's content gold. It's Christmas for that. But Mitch Marner made a comment about being a god in Toronto or the Leafs being gods. Let's have a listen to it.

Have you got it there, Jesse? Yeah. Play this. Yeah. And that's how they got Minnesota. Amazing. Thank you for that. Wow.

It's exactly what you described. Isn't this adorable? Yeah. So much better than anything the Leafs are doing. Yep. pull up that little bit pretty adorable all right that's an adorable i like small humans because they're like yeah they're like just they're well except for when you can't sleep small humans when you can't sleep are no fun i'll be honest that's that's rory hi rory all right we can do mitch

martin and natalie who's been uh a great person to deal with we always run into her in certain circles dating dating back to the cwhl uh it was uh you know she's a she's awesome we had to play ball hockey against her and it was frigging that was a nightmare a nightmare defending against her oh my god

I played very small and she played very big and scary alright so here's Mitch Marner on being a god Toronto long term yeah

that'd be a goal I've expressed my love for this place this city obviously I've grown up here so you know we'll start thinking about that now

and you know trying to figure something out What does it mean to be a Maple Leaf? It means the world. Obviously, we're looked upon as, you know, kind of gods here, to be honest. And, you know, something that you really appreciate and the love that you get here from this fan base and this attention is, you know, kind of none like any other.

So you saw with the Raps a couple years ago, you know, the love that they still have for a lot of those players that they had to trade off this year. And that's kind of the love you want. Mitch, this is Nick. All right. So we'll stop it there. Now, let me ask you something.

Is there anything about that quote, just yes or no, that is untrue? No. No. Jesse, anything about that quote that's untrue? No. No. Does anything about that quote rile you up and get you mad? Not in the slightest.

Jesse? No. Okay. So let's just put that out there. Now, I understand how it reads online. It reads horrible. I completely get how it reads online. But then you listen to the rest of what he says.

and also it doesn't even read that bad. I mean, it's kind of, it's true. We do worship our athletes here, and at the end of the day, he's showing appreciation for the city. I know the thing is right now to dunk on Mitch Marner, I didn't like his play in the playoffs either most of the time.

It's a toxic situation. But let's be honest about this particular quote, right? Yep. Straightforward. That's a nothing, nothing but, hey, we're treated really well here, and I want to stay here long-term, is what he's saying.

Yes. that would be the goal the lead-in was do you want to re-sign here and he's like yep and then he said we're looked at as gods here like that what's it mean to be a leaf right exactly it's a guy who understands the mantle of of being a leaf um and you know pre-game you're always seeing him interacting with fans with signs giving them pucks giving them sticks uh you know signing autographs he understands he understands and um i think there are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize this guy we don't need to go making them up right um and that to me just felt like a completely made up reason well i felt like it was like borderline like bullying like what are we

talking about the second so i watched the press conference live and the second i saw it i'm like no one's gonna understand that like right away but i think that people do understand that when they see it when they see it set yeah but they don't they don't how many people you think saw that clip and how many people read it oh i i most people read it yeah man like it's that's what i'm saying most people don't don't watch these things yes yeah so i think i just want it's important it's very important i wanted to dispel and what's it listen if you're it's important if you do it for a living well yeah i don't know how important it is like it's no like it's important if you're gonna have a passionate opinion about it yeah no people have passionate opinions about things

they don't know all the time oh yeah that's the half that's 90 of the internet yeah i think i think to say that you a requirement for a fan to have a passionate opinion is be as educated as you can be on the subject uh is that's a nice ideal that no one will ever strive to be i know that's like it's like going like hey wouldn't it be great if we had a society free of alcohol would sure eliminate a lot of problems they tried that how'd that go you know what i mean it's one of those where is that it is that's what it is we can have high ideals but if you can't execute on the ideals what's the point right what do we go what do we got that's important i want to get you if that one was unimportant here let me let me give you a one a recent one um it's like

all the tiktok content and instagram content and youtube shorts content around the kendrick lamar versus drake beef but not listening to any of the songs ah because you're just like but the content's so good and it's true sometimes i watch the videos and i'm like how many people have actually heard the songs though yeah you know yeah people just want there they they pick a side that's all it is there it's like a team sport um now kendrick by the way uh i'll get to let's get to the quote that actually did bother me this one bugged me and it's not saying let's all have fun before game seven no that whatever uh that is guys get motivated different ways like maybe you know if that's the best way to motivate the locker room you can't dump on them no i know there's a

video going around of this uh older leaf fan who's like oh yeah let's all have fun and i was just like uh we all know well at least one if i've been if i was born in like 1968 and i lived my whole life and i never saw my team win shit i'd be pretty pissed too with 100 fun yeah i get that i get listen i get i get the boomer angle of i can't freaking take it with this team anymore i I get it. I get it. I aged 30 years when I saw that clip. Yeah.

This clip bothered me. This clip bothered me. And this is from a great captain, in my estimation, and a really, really good person. This bothered me. Let's play it. Well, we're right there. I think, you know, obviously, you lose in game seven in overtime against a team like Boston, you know, just goes to show how small the difference is.

it's all small the differences and um you know a lot of things could be uh i'm sorry laughing in the background the laughing in the background couldn't have been more perfectly timed i missed that the first time i listened to it can you play that again sure sure that couldn't have been more perfectly time small the differences it's all small the differences and um you know a lot of things could be uh it sounds like a laugh track that's rough that's rough that's big bang theory yeah you know just goes to show how how uh how small the difference is how small the difference is and um you know a lot of things could be uh that's not great a lot different where we stand today just one shot away so um okay so let's pause this just the way yes in a vacuum yes

in a vacuum yes but we're not this was the leafs first year making the playoffs after a rebuild and this happened we'd be like ah nuts we're not living in a vacuum no we're not living in this just one year we're living in year eight and and actually you know what i'll give you one i'll give you a mulligan i'll give you year seven because the first year against the capitals wasn't some dramatic meltdown it was just a young team that was overmatched by a team that should have won the cup that year and didn't and on top of that mulligan i'll give tavaris another mulligan six because he's only been there for six well there you go okay so so fine so it's still six though that's so many and so i want to take that and compare and contrast that with uh morgan riley's

answer yeah and and this to me i was really ticked with morgan riley after uh he and mitch marner refused to come out and talk to the media after game seven i still am i still am i thought no no there's no excuse you're a leader once you're a leader all the time you wear the assistant captain i know the players respect him i respect him i love morgan i was really surprised i agree the way I look at it though is is sort of like Connor Hellebuck not talking I'm like okay well when the dust settles you better have something

to say and then he was probably the most insightful Connor Hellebuck didn't talk for any game that series which is kind of nuts I think it was like you shouldn't do that you should talk yeah it was a bit too much and I'm sorry you better be really you don't get to do you get to pick and choose when you're an owner of this company

you're an owner all the time no this guy wears an assistant captain no no don't laugh at that I'm serious i think jesse and i are just making fun of all your comparison yeah your comparisons today are out of control guys seriously though no no let's i want to have a real conversation yeah it's like a horse you're a leader if you're a leader you're a leader all the time yes if you're if you're in football and you're wearing that fucking band around your arm because that's you're the captain you're part of the captain group you have to be a leader all the time i thought i just look cool

yeah well it's not it's not just that it's not just to show off your biceps my point here is that i still think morgan riley and mitch marner aired when they didn't come out and speak i still think that that is something that management should address i doubt they will i know from a few people that the leafs pr staff have been very difficult to deal with this year in particular and have let the leafs get away with not speaking when they should and that is to me not conducive to a winning culture uh but i want to give morgan riley full marks for this answer because john tavara said we're right there what did morgan riley say what went last when you're from how close do you think you are to the goal that you mentioned um i don't want to stand here and and try to tell you that

we're we're on the doorstep of a of anything um because you know we're sitting here today doing this. Um, but the belief, the belief is there that it's attainable. Um, but there's work and improvement that has to take place. Um, so I don't, so how close are we? I don't know. we'll see um it feels both attainable and a ways away and that's what that's what drives you as an individual that's what drives a team forward to either have success or we'll see all right so that was so close to it feels both attainable and unattainable and then he chose different words and i'm like oh morgan good job good job dude i this we've we've talked before about how nhl players are well professional athletes are just ridiculously competitive like they're

just wired different from you and i like there are a lot of things where we probably overreact but there's a bunch of things where we look at and we go what's the big deal i mean it's because they're super competitive about everything if every year you were like do you know how much easier it would be to fix the Leafs if they simply got their asses kicked it'd be way easier like think every year every single year losing six of the Capitals five of the six games go to overtime erase the 3-1 deficit against Boston losing game seven when you go into the third period leading when you go into the third period leading don't worry that'll be a theme um seven games against boston get your ass kicked in game seven but you were up three two in the series

uh one of the most miraculous comebacks in nhl history in game four against the blue jackets you lose in game five uh you're up uh three one in the series against montreal you lose in game seven got your ass kicked in game seven uh you're up three two in the series against the tampa bay lightning goes to seven you lose two one and there's respect in the handshake line you finally beat tampa really tight series there's three overtimes you win them all including a 4-1 comeback then and largely outplayed let's be and largely outplayed then florida kicks your ass that was the first time that a team truly kicked the leafs ass in a playoff series kicked their ass wasn't close and then this year comes around you're getting your ass kicked

and you find a way to come back you play some of the tightest hockey you've ever played you're leading in game seven again in the third period again with what five minutes to go as a little bit more than that but like holy shit you coughed it up in like 80 seconds it this has to feel like torture and i don't blame competitive people for looking at that and thinking they are right there but you know if you were looking at this in a vacuum which i think these guys might tend to do just because they look at each season as a season i could understand wanting to run this back i could understand thinking man we're right there this is going to be torture if boston beats florida it's going to be torture if they go all the way to the final and why why does that make it worse

well it's going to make it worse because i think it it strengthens your belief that damn it we're right there we had them it did not every team they faced in the playoff so far go to the stanley cup final it's a ridiculous percentage florida in 23 um tampa in 22 uh montreal in 21 columbus died uh boston in 2019 boston got their ass kicked by tampa in 2018 uh and the capitals only went two rounds so since 2019 every team that has eliminated them in the playoffs if we don't count the play-in round has gone on to the finals that doesn't make anything about their eliminations better so no it hasn't and you know we learned this going back five years to the 2019 series when they played a really tight game i mean geez if they played a tight game and one two one

in game five of the 2019 series against boston well the leaves just did that twice against boston and that saved babcock's job right so i could understand all those years going yeah but we were you have to look at the big picture yeah and i think the saving babcock's job point is so crucial here because what happened in that instance in that one vacuum game where it's like oh they're so close let's run it back let's bring him back and then they brought him back and what they realized was that the initial assessment of that this isn't enough and we should have fired him just was delayed five months and then they fired him in december and let's stay on that point jesse so we keep saying shanahan shanahan shanahan it's got to

be shanahan who pays with his job and you get um used to bees like damien cox talking about like do people even know what the president does it was very these are never been no he was he just blew it um there are you know there's kyle dubas people forget and i gotta i got a ridiculous memory for this stuff october november of the 2019 20 season and people forget it because it's i can't blame you remember dubas freaking out on camera before overtime yes in a game against columbus yes and you can read his lips clear as day they started a weird group of people i don't remember who it was but you can read his lips clear as day he has to know they figured out something something something don't know what it was and columbus ended up winning that overtime

um dubis i think if it were up to him i think that would have been it i think babcock would have been done after the 2019 series and this is just me theorizing but the guy who's gonna keep his job by the sounds of it because he's gonna speak to the media on friday brendan shanahan the guy who's been here for a decade i think was probably a roadblock in babcock getting fired and he wasn't fired until it was obvious there was nothing left for it right so when i talk about shanahan this is the sort of thing like i wonder if him with his ultra competitive brain and he's you know he's been through this and won so many things in his career i can't help but wonder if some of the leafs bullishness on themselves if some of their willingness to

run it back comes from him dubas was right on the verge of trading one of the core four it was very obvious that's what he was about to do and he paid for it with his job they kept it together and here we are again a year later what brendan shanahan is going to do is make the same mistake over and over again because he's being allowed to make that mistake and run it back again and the same babcock mistake that he's making with himself here and that he thinks nothing's wrong and he thinks we're on the precipice and it's so close and we got to just keep it all together I think it's funny that, in retrospect, that you decide to keep a coach based on his Game 5 performance before the series is even won. And that's what they did in Boston.

They had a great Game 5, and they're like, okay, we're keeping Babs next year. What about Game 1? Let's make judgments on Game 1. And I remember you lost it in the studio. It was great. It was really great in the Purolator studio. They lost 5-1 in Game 7. Are you fucking kidding me?

No, no, but remember the next season. We were like, you know, they should have let this guy go. And Jesse and I were like, well, that's not how these corporations work. that's also part of it too right they're very slow they're very deliberate which is why babs hung on as long as he did right they they just don't move on from from people that quickly and i'll tell you um uh i have they moved on for me pretty quick from you i i made i made uh i remember when i was working uh for and i know this isn't the same i don't give a shit though i'm gonna make the comparison when when i was doing media there like editing highlights and

stuff i used to joke uh with a co-worker of mine i go you know because we have these contract jobs i'm like well they're not going to let me go i don't make anything and then they did you know what i mean so why are you keeping the dude who makes millions and millions of dollars who's doing a shitty job because it's it's very different i know it's very different at that level very very i know it's very different but like they can make decisions like that but you're you're i guess i wasn't a good enough drinking buddy you're 12 i didn't tell the right jokes like what is it steve that's not the same that's not i don't give a shit you're talking about a 12 an hour employee that a company views as 12 an hour what were you making okay they're fucking scrooge mcduck what

were you making not that what were you making less less it was a minimum wage back then well it was uh seven no one day so it was um i got a monthly fee and one day i tallied the um number of hours i worked and i shouldn't have because i realized what i was making per hour and um had i not been working for the team i'd been cheering for my whole life i would have quit on the spot well yeah and that's the thing is that teams you know traditionally sports team it was like five bucks an hour everybody wants to work for them so they can charge less and how old were you like 19 yeah uh no i was uh 22 but jesse steve had a good game five i think it's the same thing as brendan shanahan's job if we're if we're looking at an objective so so here's here's

here's where i want to take this is that i didn't cost this team nearly as much money as brendan shanahan yeah we all know that he also has made them how bad were your highlights he has also made how good were your no he hasn't yes steven come on he's made them a fortune how many times should they have gotten past the first round i agree but you're looking at that is a leaving millions of dollars on this yes i think i think that's a fair point in that his performance is also tied to the team's performance and the play chris johnson brought this up and he's like you go to the second round there's three extra home dates and that's also tied to the revenue right and what they will say and what he will argue and what he will be successful in arguing is yeah what

was it before what oh yeah they were doing a fucking horrible job before which means he's doing a great job that's that's how he'll argue it and that will be argued but does anyone buy that i think people do absolutely because here's the thing when you're looking at it from a corporate perspective robbable they look at hang on let me finish this let me finish this when you look at it from a corporate perspective they go okay we have the known quantity is the known quantity giving us exactly what we want in terms of results not quite however sponsorships are up season tickets are up in terms of not just the amount of sponsorships, what they're charging for sponsorships. If I told you what it costs to just buy official partner of the Toronto Maple

Leafs status, you fall off your chair. And that's before you've spent any money activating that partnership. And the reason that they can do that is because they've had this amazing run of regular season success. And the in-game is better. The fan experience is better if you can afford to go uh all of that stuff is is better under shanahan and that's his direction so they will they will look at that and they'll go okay that then we got to bring somebody in and we got to get them up to speed and then we got to hope and pray that they can do a better job than shanning well then how do you how do you that's how they're going to look how do you then tell this man who scored 600 goals and is in the hockey hall of fame you're doing a great job fuck off from all the

hockey decisions i don't know that's that's a board decision i think the way they should be looking at it is the same way like i understand the point and that they're they're wildly successful and all that stuff but the way alan walsh talks about how gary's running the nhl and how successful it's been recently like they've gotten revenues yearly up to six billion dollars the nhl is generating revenue but when alan talks about that he's like yeah it's widely successful and way above anything all the owner's expectations are, but it should be $9 billion, $10, $12 billion area. And that's how I feel about Brendan Shanahan. I think that's how the MLSC board should look at Brendan Shanahan. Yeah, Gary, you made $6 billion, but you should have made double that. Yeah,

Brendan, this team is great and has wildly successful and turn around the franchise and all that stuff, but it should be better. You have all of the resources here. You should be doing more with what you have here. And I think that's a failure in my eyes. They clearly don't look at it like that but if you're falling that short of where you should be i don't care what gains you've made we should have x three x what they've done and basic math you make more than anybody else and you are not experiencing near the same success as almost anybody else yep yep and let's come on guys what are we doing i also i also want to say this um maple leaf sports and entertainment more than than uh i think that they've let on were severely hit like a lot of teams um

in their month-to-month revenue over the pandemic huge all right and so what they what teams want right now at the executive level is stability and so you have to account for that you have to if you if you want to understand it listen we can rage all podcasts about it but i can tell you that that's what they're looking well and that's why dubas was fired because first round exit first run exit first run exit first run no he wasn't second round he wasn't fired that's where that's way too unstable we've had too much success first round exit oh yeah that the stability thing goes against firing dubious goes against uh that stability thing because what do you do a month before the draft when you have a bunch of big decisions to make on your core for well they

obviously trust shanee it was yeah those decisions because he's the one that my ultimate decision brendan shanahan with these things well okay do you want to know what i've heard Sure. What have you heard? So I know on pretty good authority that one third of the board was ready to move against him if they were able to get out of the first round. One third, the other two undecided or unknown. Okay.

The, they had a meeting. This is what I've heard. So that the first part is what I know. Here's what I've heard. They had a meeting about this a few weeks ago. It was a board meeting. They had a conversation. It was broached.

If the Leafs don't get out of the first round, then what? And from what I understand, and again, what I've heard and cannot verify is that Keith Pelley came in and said, no, Shani is the guy I want to stick around for at least one more year. And the reason is he's just taken over. Now, we've talked about this executive thing for a while. It's you know, it was like when Shani took over his position with the Leafs, he wanted to retain Randy Carlisle

because he didn't, he hadn't had a chance to look at the organization. They tried to re-sign Dave Boland to a five-year $25 million. And thank God the Florida Panthers upped their offer. So Boland, who never finished that deal,

didn't stay in Toronto for five million bucks a year. So that's not out of the realm of possibilities. I think what you're going to see tomorrow, he's going to see Keith, Brendan and Brad out there and they're going to say,

we got to make some changes and not much else. You're not going to see, and so when the board meeting is supposed to have happened, and again, haven't been able to fully verify it, the conversation was, listen, if we do this now, we throw ourselves into the same chaos we found ourselves in last spring when Dubas was let go. Who did that? Well, no one, okay, no one's saying it in that specific thing, but they're saying, don't

throw us into the same chaos. Don't take me literally on that. What I'm saying is they don't want chaos this spring. they want continuity so it's trickle up it's trickle up we all thought keith was done and brad trill living comes in oh i just got here a year later keith pelly takes over you're gonna fire shanahan oh i just got here ah it's just millionaires playing fucking merry-go-round this here you go like what adam adam like i'm just telling you for god's sake that's what i've heard i i think

a big problem with the leafs is they're a little bit of an anomaly like they're in a they're a trying to come up with a gentler way of saying they're a they're an abomination of sport because the way this is supposed to work is when you lose you die when you lose you fail it's supposed to be a results oriented business and it's not right now with the way the leafs are working monetarily though they're successful and that's what they're looking at okay how is this remotely different from the pension plan days of 20 years ago i don't think it is i'm just telling you listen i think they're upset about the lost revenue but i think they're also going to point out and go well we made more money this

year than we did last year okay okay how about this fuck off out of the sports realm then and go run a grocery store yeah as a fan go go you know make a shoe line go get involved in any other business you win or lose it's sports well are you fucking joking as a fan you would hope that the ownership of your favorite sports team would recognize that it's more than about the bottom line and that you wish you had ownership in there that recognize the results on the field of play are what matters the most to the people who care about your team and are the reason that you have all of those revenues. And if those results aren't coming, it's time to make results so that they can. It's time to make changes so that those results do come. Well, and so here's what my

thought on that is. And I mentioned this a couple shows ago. And again, I don't disagree with anything you guys are saying. I'm just telling you how they're going to look at it. And how they're gonna look at it is we have like clueless three money losing properties tfc loses money marley's lose money uh argonauts lose money okay you got the raptors who are in a full rebuild because they refused to make a move last year that could have probably turned them around it's a little bit different it's a little bit different i'm telling you that's why they want continuity and that's why what about that for you made you freak out i mean the raptors it was obvious the leafs they're bad

because what the rat the leafs are not bad no no the raptors are bad because what because messiah would not move on from uh his his key players last it's also it's also a completely different scenarios like i i don't think that was the thing to get you all upset it comes back to the same shit but they they won steve i don't you're comparing a team that won a championship yeah and then had a covid year where things they had the button then the the repeat year the bubble season they were this close to beating the boston celtics yeah they were if that exists in like real life they probably beat the celtics or in the finals again you know and then you agree with and then they have a covid scene where they're in tampa and it's a wash they get a great draft pick

in scotty barnes they come back and things aren't looking too great but you have a top 30 player on your team plus uh Lowry's still there he moves on you have Van Fleet you run it back with them you believe in your core because they want a championship and what you're seeing with Siakam right now in the playoffs and OG in the playoffs you had pieces there there was all the point was get to the playoff all I'm trying to say is don't just yell about the Raptors and say ah they did the same thing as the Leafs because not the same at all and had the Raptors won the play-in game last year which they came close to doing they were they were bad last year they were but had They won the play-in game, which they were in the lead for the majority of the game.

I was there. Whoa, wait, let me Google something real quick. Did they win that game? No! Jesus! MLSC board looks at this as more than just the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah, and I am upset that I cheer for a sports team that has an ownership group that's this inept. All that said, I think what's going to happen tomorrow is the straight-ahead boring answer.

that's always excuse me friday what always happens in this is that you hear a bunch of wild rumors and guess what happens the most boring thing trust the most boring answer the most boring answer is shanny pelly and tree are up there they are tree living tree laughing and tree loving and they are uh they are just talking about what the future is going to be and yeah we might have to look at some moves etc etc that's trust the boring rumors i don't like that i also want a shirt of it yeah you do you need to have that now uh that is that is sort of what the situation i think is tomorrow or on friday and and we'll have an a podcast right after that press conference finishes so we'll have basically an instant reaction to it i hope it's early yeah me too what time does it start supposed

to be 11 or 11 30 but they haven't nailed the time they did say friday okay so noon yeah because they always are like 45 minutes late to these things yes um but what they are doing right now according elliot friedman is they're they're talking about right now they're having meetings about what's what's going to happen and that includes shelvin keith and you know one of the things that i think cj talked about and i agree with him on on the cj show which was just ballistic yesterday so oh really good julian they started so hot with julian getting suspended in ball hockey yeah so great i can't believe that happened uh of all people uh the thing is um viable candidates for Sheldon Keefe so you're you're again you're you're you get upset because

the Leafs keep things the same you do have to look at who could replace this person anybody and with Sheldon Keefe whoa Sheldon Keefe okay so your your options were Travis Green who just signed Gerard Gallant Dean Everson and Craig Berube there is a thing that happens in the NHL and it's head coaches get fired yep because just NHL players don't like having one head coach for too long and Sheldon Keefe is the fourth or fifth most tenured head coach in the National Hockey League which is egregious because of the lack of success that he's seen a change for the sake of change often is very successful when it comes to head coaches isn't that funny yeah it's just it's just how it works that has always worked like that for

decades now change for the sake of change works and they should have gone in that direction a long time ago paul maurice has a golden reputation right now and to me it's just proof that people don't have memories not when it comes to nhl head coaches dude this guy has been a head coach since he was a young man i want to say he was 28 yeah he was pretty young yeah he was there was what i think was the least heads coach there were players that were older than him he was yeah it might have been they he was um i want to say he played pro or college or something and he suffered an eye injury so he couldn't play anymore and he's been a head coach since the early mid 90s the 95 96 hartford whalers were his first head coaching job man and like dude look at all the red for out of

the playoffs he had round one you did an article by the way back in the day for leafs nation where it talked about... No, it was for Sportsnet. Oh, it was for Sportsnet. How Paul Maurice had never had good goaltending, though. Yeah, we... What did we do? We arranged it so it was years

where he had a good goalie who performed poorly, a bad goalie who performed poorly, a bad goalie who performed well, and a whatever. All those four quadrants. And basically, I looked at every team he's ever had, and I'm like,

this guy just has never had a goalie and what's hilarious is the past 10 years all he's ever had is a goalie this dude went from connor hellebuck to the resurrection of sergey bobrovsky um and like he's even had like some pretty good backups along the way i guess we'll leave pav electricity out of it although pav electricity was pretty good for he had a pretty good little run there but dude there was a long time where his reputation was this guy coaches teams that lose yeah and right now he coaches teams that kick at look at the run look at the run from his first gig in 95 96 up until today in 23 24 there has only been one nhl season in his life where he was not an nhl head coach wow well i guess the two because

the ahl the marley's head coach so two seasons he has the 0506 season where he's an ahl head coach and then the 1213 season where he's a khl head coach that's amazing and then in there you have the lockout so here wait a sec jesse so there's a couple things i want to go through um the the stretch that he's on so he's had a couple deep runs but the stretch he's on is lost in round three lost in round one lost in qualifying round lost in round two out of playoffs then lost in finals and then there's this year where he's up uh no he's not actually he's down one nothing in the second round i know he lost in the first round this khl year jesse can you click on that team sure because this was the year i did highlights this metallurg magnetagorse team

kicked frigging ass wow look at it's the malkin team yeah so well sergi mazakin was a former columbus blue jackets pick he stayed in the khl could have i in my opinion played in the nhl isn't he the highest scoring khl of all time pretty sure he owns like every khl scoring record malkin was on the team they ended up losing him coolaman was on the team they ended up losing him because they all went back ryan o'reilly the nhl yeah dude justin hodgman leaf legend was really good sergey gonchar matt zuccarello uh dimitri kazianov i can't remember o'reilly even played in the league for a while yeah victor antipin i believe played in the nhl dennis platonov played in the nhl cal o'reilly enver leeson played in the nhl oleg tevredosky dude that team ruled and

i think a big part of why uh they lost in the first round is everyone left yeah because the nhl season kicked back into gear yeah so look at all the lines under playoff stats those are dudes who didn't play because they went back to the nhl imagine losing an nhl lineup 10 years ago losing Malkin, Kuhlman, Gonchar, Ryan O'Reilly. Dude, they were great. Yeah. That was such a good team. The point was Paul Maurice has been in coaching forever

and that he has a very short-term memory when it comes to success, I think was the point being made in Shelby and Keith. People have a very short-term memory when they think about Paul Maurice because he's always getting jobs and does not have a long history, as you can see, of being a very coach that can go on deep runs you know he's been the finals twice in how many

years is that 26 years you know so and he keeps getting hired because change for the sake of change is successful in the nhl well and like you can ride a stanley cup for a while too but like randy carlisle went from you this is one of the best coaches in the nhl after winning the stanley cup and within a few years it's like no team should try to get this person i would argue john tortorella is in some way still riding his one stanley cup yeah but even it's funny every time you lose faith in john tortorella he comes up with a couple really good seasons i think and then you got to get rid of him because he overstays his welcome i think john tortorella he has a stanley cup so there's a pedigree there i think john tortorella and this

is extremely disrespectful but here it is john tortorella is one of the nhl coaches of all time go look at his resume like yeah after that cup i don't think he's ever been back to the final has he no he's won a like a bunch of playoff series i think he's had you know at least one or two conference final appearances yeah so you're making my point no no i'm agreeing yeah like like he's he's yeah he won the 0304 stanley cup with tampa and then since then we got a bunch of out of the playoffs on his hockey db coaching record a bunch of losses in round one and one trip to a conference finals okay now go to john cooper go to john cooper like i think holy look oh my god no no no no click on that photo click in that photo that is the whoa yeah that is the

most bostonian man you know how many people he's told to fuck off oh look at that look at that you know what i changed my mind he's incredible no i don't know no no yeah let's let's go on to john cooper like so many coaches are looked at as like the best thing ever and i feel like only a handful of them actually are um uh i know jesse's looking for it right now like how many truly great coaches are in the nhl right now and also we've never even seen john cooper not on the lightning so who knows maybe he stinks i don't think so because look at dude look at the nhl back-to-back championships because the ushl wins a championship goes to the ahl wins a championship goes the nhl four finals appearances and two championships this guy kicks ass yeah this guy so yeah i i feel like

he's kind of disrespected in the whole coaching conversation but we're getting miles away from the original point which is which is which they're trying to i'm trying to bring us back to who is who is the ultimate replacement now i've seen the berube reports and whenever there's a leafs anything open what people will do and this is a good thing if you're trying to up your package it your your compensation package that is uh is you put your name in there and go oh leafs might be considering because that forces other teams to go well shit i better get them and the sins might be considering yeah well i mean okay so the berube thing came down to money according to preach is which sense fans took great i don't know that travis green is that bad like sense

fans acted like he's like worse than dj smith i'm like you guys just watched five years of dj smith like i are you kidding i don't think it was terrible i don't think sense fans were as mad about travis green i don't think they were over the moon about it but i don't think they were as mad about travis green as they were about hearing that it came down to money again like that is if i'm michael anlauer i do whatever i can to nip that in the bud um because the whole reason for optimism with you is a you weren't the last guy and b you're actually gonna spend on this team and the follow-up to that was that it wasn't entirely about money it was brube they felt in some of the interviews with him that

the Ottawa Senator's job wasn't his number one job. And they didn't want somebody who was like, oh yeah, I'll just take this job if it's there. Which is why you gotta nip that in the bud because that is not the message that's out there. Well, the message is whatever the fans want to, like all the fans who want to dump on Sens

and what the rumor is salacious that's out there. They're gonna run with the money one. But if you listen to some more stuff and you do the research, and fans aren't obligated to do that. That's where we started the show. That's the whole point. that's the the the money quote that's that's the money quote you know you see the headline they couldn't afford him and you run with that but that's not the whole story also i want to

throw this at you um michael and lauer said in his opening press conference if we go back to it he said yes i'm going to spend money but this business has to operate as a business meaning like i'm not going to set i'm not the winnipeg jets i'm not going to set 30 million dollars or 25 million dollars on fire every year why it's going great well i mean i think i think that i think that what he's saying is there's a budget for things and the budget is what the budget is and i bet to get travis green to come down a little bit in price on the aav i bet they gave him the fourth year four years for a head coach right off the bat yeah i thought that was really you get two to three normally i was surprised and i think that's

because they wanted to bring the cost down ottawa has to do a lot of rebuilding within ottawa and within the canadian corporate community that could offer sponsorship dollars for this team i i think you need to understand on the business side of things that the melnick era burnt a lot of bridges there was a ton of instability there were executives that were here and gone regularly there was one from maple leaf sports and entertainment who went in and tom and sell me tom and sell me he was there for like a year and then boom gone and it's it's you know and then it's all you know pure pure mcguire's in there one day and then there's like it's just out of nowhere. Out of nowhere. There's so much stuff that happened with the senators that they're

probably on a trajectory. They have to be looking at this in a three to five year thing on the money side of we can't maximize profits. Clients are just going to come back because they got a new owner. Oh, no, no. You have to woo them back. You have to prove to them that you're legit because a new owner in itself, even though they're not the Eugene Melnick owner, they are unstable inherently because you don't know this person they're an unknown quantity and yes this guy owned 10 of the canadians i know but is he the cup was he the key principal owner no so he needs to prove himself within that community and put together an org it's way different put together an organization that is stable that is well run that services clients properly that treats fans

well that has a good brand within the community and unfortunately spending wildly on a head coach just may not be in the budget and i don't know what wildly for the senators is four years for travis green to me says uh that he wanted x amount of dollars i want 20 million dollars okay well we can't give you that in three but we can give you that in four so the other thing is i forgot by the way jay woodcroft is also available so berube everyone has evason and um galant i i mean it all comes down to what the Leafs think could be an upgrade and you know in a year's time is John Cooper available god that'd be nice you know like that it might be and remember they just signed Keefe to this two-year extension well and by the way that small aside uh I really like Jay

Woodcroft I think the world of him but uh Chris Knobloch maybe should have been nominated for the Jack Adams yeah he won I don't know the exact number I don't I don't know how he wasn't he went like 45 and 15 I think it was pretty hard well you should take that up with the NHL broadcasters because we found out that it is indeed

the play by play and color guys who vote on the Jack Adams award which is I think weird because maybe it should be done by the writers who vote on everything else big Jay Woodcroft guys I want to throw this at you

No, no, they would be big Jay Woodcroft guys because they don't... Because it's still Jay's team. They don't respect Knobloch, right? Hey, has the internet ever told you to get outside and touch grass? Yep. Wow, it's crazy.

Now that the Leafs are out, you can. And listen, if your hockey team is in or they're out, the weather's getting better, and that means you need some shady rays to cover those corneas. Yeah, cover those corneas. Right. Jesse, anything to add?

No, Steve's just really good at just yelling what you just said. Yeah, really good at yelling what you just said. 300,000 people have rated these five stars. How many people? Five stars. How many people? I think you said 100,000.

300,000. 300,000. You're not even good at your job. Damn it. Repeat what he says except louder. Listen, if you don't get a pair of Shady Rays, we're going to have a frigging problem. I don't think Adam said that. I don't know if they want us to bully and cajole people into getting Shady Rays because

you should want to get Shady Rays, especially for this crazy deal. ShadyRays.com use the promo code SDP 50% off two or more pairs of polarized sunglasses what's the deal Steve it's not a threat it's a promise what's the deal I forget I was being menacing it is it is 50% off two or more pairs of polarized sunglasses at ShadyRays.com

use the code SDP that's how you get one more time Steve what's the what's the deal 50% off two pairs or more that's right polarized sunglasses code you cut me off what's the code what's the code dangle no it's sdp it's sdp see how much he listens to me see how much anyway

check it out shady this show is brought to you by better help better help is obviously the the on-demand therapy service where if you need it now you can get it now and that's the thing a lot of times when people decide to go to therapy they could have used it months ago and then it takes you sometimes months to get hooked up with a therapist and then what if that that you know that therapist doesn't work and i've had to switch therapists before it's tough the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago the second best time is now that's right and what if it could be what if it could be 48 hours to grow that therapy all right gandhi yeah i don't know if that was a gandhi quote i don't know either listen better help i'm gonna look it

up better help if you want uh great therapy if you want to be able to choose the methodology in which you are uh you know what you get treatment which you talk to people which you Kind of get these things off your chest. Quotes. Is that what it is? I want to see you. That's great. All right.

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I want to say this. uh uh austin matthews nominee for the lady bing nominee for the selkie and just announced nominee for the ted lindsey as well what so that's very interesting nominated for the ted lindsey not nominated for the heart so the heart is mvp but that's most valuable player to their team yes you know but the ted lindsey jesse maybe you should look up the exact wording but it's basically best player as voted by the players right yeah yeah that's it was the lester b pearson it was the lester b pearson now it's the ted lindsey so you can rename trophies sure you can um but it didn't make sense to have a canadian prime minister from the 50s as the as the person

on the trophy that's why it was odd that's why we don't rename the other trophies the other trophies you should remain the same who is heart i don't know who is that oh that's a good question yeah I don't know who the Hart Memorial is. The Ted Lindsay, if you want the exact definition from the NHL, first awarded in 1970-71 as the Lester B. Puston Award. The Ted Lindsay Award is presented annually to the most outstanding player as voted by fellow members of the NHLPA. There you go.

The Hart Memorial Trophy is named in honor of Canadian Dr. David Hart. who donated the original trophy to the NHL was the father of Cecil Hart a former coach and general manager with the Canadians. The trophy was first awarded in 23-24. And he donated his heart as well. Yes he did. So this is the 100th year

most valuable for his body. Yes This is the 100th year of the heart trophy? Yeah 23-24 yeah wow Nobody has said that I think. No that's Steve Dangle breaking news. Apparently Yeah dude. Yeah. Or would this be the 101st technically uh the 100th first awarded was 24 yeah so okay so i understand why you don't

change that because it's been 100 years of that sure now okay this is important kucherov mcdavid uh mckinnon those are the three heart nominees who are the ted lindsey nominees if austin matthews is replacing one of them kucherov and mckinnon so mcdavid is mcdavid's nominated for the heart he's not nominated for the ted lindsey yes so the players are like this guy's not one of the top three they voted austin matthews instead yeah that's crazy i mean like listen matthews is one of the top three defensive forwards in the league based on the selkie right he's nominated for it and he scored 69 goals for him to not be nominated for the hardest tough like i understand it but Damn, that's a tough class.

Who overthought it? The writers or the players? Players. Players. How do you not have McDavid in there? He should be in there every year. Over Matthews. Well, they don't agree.

No, over Kucherov. They don't agree all the time. That's bad. Dude. Dude. Dude. Dude, I'm telling you. You're an anti-Kucherov.

McDavid, Matthews. That's what I would go with. Oh, that's bad. For the Lindsay? Or for the Hart? For both. Why is that bad? Because there's no reason that McDavid should be in there over Kucherov when they have identical stats, except Kucherov's are better.

I think it's better that McDavid came from nothing and caught Kucherov. I think that says something. Honestly, look at where Kucherov was. McDavid had, what, a 25-point? He was down, what, 25, 30 points? He was very far back. And he caught him? Yeah.

Come on. Are we going to erase that? He also didn't catch him because Kucherov won the arm wrestling. He caught him for a second. and then Kucherov won the Art Ross trophy. Yeah, his last game was against the Leafs. He didn't catch him. Yeah, that doesn't count. Doesn't count against the Leafs.

If you look at what Kucherov did as the solo point getter on Tampa Bay, it's the reason the trophy exists. So why would he be removed when he might honestly win the thing? He probably will.

Why would you remove him from the top three? Because it's the Ted Lindsay award it's not mvp to your team it's the best players and i'm talking about the best player i think he was as voted on by the player he was the best player i don't i don't i don't agree i think mckinnon's a better player i think mcdavid's a better player i think matthew's had a i think matthew's accomplishments this year had he hit 70 goals let's be honest if matthew's and i'm gonna be a toronto homer for a second i'll admit this no i know where you're going is matthew's in the one of the top three in the heart he might be he might be because we're obsessed with round

numbers in the sport yep in all sports my my question i don't understand why you're so you're putting matthews over kucherov i personally i think that in the ted lindsey conversation we're talking about the best players mckinnon mcdavid and i'd say based on his season matthews yes yes and i stand behind that i'm not talking about mvp to their team which is a weird designation yeah because in every other sport it's just mvp not mvp to their team i get why kucherov is going to win that award he is the tampa bay lightning i get that uh mckinnon yeah where the avalanche be without mckinnon not great not great sure not great bob yeah uh the oilers i think could survive they're deep enough now that i think they'd survive a 20 games you don't think you don't

think the 100 assists is more impressive than the 69 goals i don't oh i honestly don't and i know it's been done less i know okay i know because one is i know far more rare than the other i think that i think goals are worth double wait no i think you're all missing the number one argument against kucherov fuck up yeah but also okay fuck him no because i don't think the conversation we're having is is kucherov over mcdavid because i think uh that should be the three it's you're removing kucherov to put in matthew what about kucherov was rude at the all-star game yeah it's a good point he gave up it's a joke i guess he's upset about this he's really he's really i'm trying to i'm trying to find your reasoning it's pretty obvious isn't it he almost had 70

goals he had 69 goals uh mcdavid came back and and squashed a 25 point lead midway through the season that kucharov had and then you've got nathan mckinnon who at some point is going to get his revenant trophy i don't think right i even okay if i'll listen to the argument that you'd put kucherov in over mckinnon i'll listen to that but i will not i will not take this austin matthew slander that he's a heart nominee if he gets 70 i know he didn't but i think it's crap that he got 69 we're not talking about the heart show we're talking about the ted okay and the ted lindsey is the best player and he's nominated for the ted lindsey and mcdavid's yes and isn't isn't sasha barkoff normally nominated for this too isn't this is like the the sasha barkoff trophy

where it's like all the players think he's super great and he's underrated isn't that the thing yes am i right on that i don't know yeah exactly i'm telling you i'm telling you you would remove so what's your top three in the voting if you'd remove mckinnon so mckinnon comes i think mcdavid's one i think mckinnon's two i think matthew's three you just said you would remove mckinnon i'll listen to it before matthews i i we're talking about best players yeah yeah yeah but i think you have to look at what the season was well i gotta i great drew he just quit yeah he'll live he'll live he takes enough shots at the leafs i'm sure he can survive this drew wait name one i think when you when we look back on this season like if you went five years in the future you

look back on the season you'd say the two most outstanding players this season were mckinnon and kucherov i don't i think that's mcdavid erasure i really do i think that's matthew's racer i think that's a joke i think matthews had had one of the craziest goal scoring seasons we've had in 30 years we have mcdavid here's the thing mcdavid didn't win the art ross but if if knob block is the coach from game one and they're not losing eight nothing and trying a defensive scheme that doesn't work for the first 20 games mcdavid wins the art ross hands down all day but he didn't Yeah, but you know the answer to that. Over the course, his points per game,

after Knobloch takes over... Unfortunately, we don't live in the world where hypotheticals are how... That's still my reasoning. Kucherov has the best coach in the league. He has the best coach in the league. John Cooper, for my money, is the best coach in the league.

They didn't have that instability. They didn't have the instability of the Oilers. Are we just going to ignore the facts? That should remove votes from him. Okay, you're right. Let's not put McDavid in the Ted Lindsey. Are we out of our mind? He's not, currently.

That's what I'm like. This is crazy. He's the best player on planet Earth. But that's not what, it's who had the most outstanding season this year. He caused the turnaround. The Oilers were never going to make the playoffs if they kept going.

What would they have been? Where were the McDavid Oilers in November? When past the Thanksgiving line, where, you know, the American Thanksgiving line, where it's like, if you're not in the playoffs, you got a low chance of making it.

And all of a sudden, they turn it around and they're challenging for the division they're in the second round of the playoffs what are we talking about i just wanted to tweet a sincere thanks to whoever decided to announce this mid-show oh it wasn't announced mid-show it wasn't no no when was it announced this morning this morning it was yeah yeah either way i'm supposed to get those emails what the yeah well he did i don't know i think when you look at the season as a whole i think most hockey fans would agree and the players would agree that the two most outstanding seasons are mckinnon and kuchar i think most hockey fans don't have a long memory and then you look about and then you say

okay we can have the arguments about mcdavid and matthews which i think is why they swap places on the ted lindsey and the heart trophy and why they're ones in one and one's not in the other but there's two that are above the rung of the rest of the guys i think this is kneelander marner erasure oilers were seven seven and oh in november in october they were two five and one don't you think we should save this for june fellas i i'm you're right i'm sorry all right i'm just saying in december they were in december they were nine three and oh and now that directly correlates to their coach being changed if they had a similar record at you know december january february in november october uh this isn't even a question mcdavid is heart trophy winner hands

down it's funny how we don't exist in the world of hypotheticals and you just have to look at the season as a whole how do you not look at a comeback and say that that's amazing you have to say who has the most outstanding season overall and kucherov's the points he put up as the lone point getter on the tampa bay lightning was more impressive than what mcdavid did in the months that you're rating his new coach over when he got his previous coach. I don't understand. Well, OK, here's what then let's throw this at you. I don't know that it was slow.

His slow start means that his the rest of his season was more. OK, well, how about this? The Tampa Bay Lightning finished with 93 points. The Oilers finished with 99. The Oilers had a better year than Tampa, despite that shitty start. And I think that lends itself more to the fact that McDavid is able to do things that Kucherov cannot do. uh like it's but it's an individual it's about the individual performance the one we're talking

about ted lindsey do you guys still need me you could weigh in too like you're sitting here you don't you don't have an opinion on the heart trophy i thought we were having a fun discussion about the hockey season oh yeah it's real fun i don't know i don't know i'm just having a chat i don't know why you're what are you doing yelling too loud for me listen we're having a passionate discussion it doesn't mean it's personal what are your thoughts okay my thoughts are why don't you weigh in my thoughts are because i'm having too much fun listening okay what are your thoughts on the ted lindsey and hartrell yeah take a fucking stance my thoughts are it is god damn my thoughts are um it's insane to leave a selkie nominee who scored 69 goals off the heart

ballot yes and yet you ask me to take one of those three men off and i can't do it the so you so you leave austin matthews off and what about the ted lindsey the guy well it's funny which is what we're really discussing yeah steve you can't do the thing where you just make the arguments for all four guys yeah no you don't answer the question i didn't do that i'm asking you just to submit your voting what is it i didn't do that no the i am surprised matthews was nominated for the lindsey um because it goes against the heart voting which i think is the correct voting for as good as i think matthews is the guys so you would expect the lindsey and the heart to be the same is what i'm saying well no because i mean if we're going by the three best yes okay um the lindsey and heart

often don't align i'm trying to remember uh the most recent time a heart winner did not also win the lindsey um connor mcdavid was it connor mcdavid because off the top of my head i remember cory perry won the heart and one of the sardines got the ted lindsey no 1718 taylor hall won the heart trophy connor mcdavid which was ted lindsey and and which is outrageous still outrageous won it as a uh as someone who wasn't even nominated for the heart which i don't know if that's ever happened um that was truly wild and insane and the only reason he didn't win the heart that year is because he didn't make the playoffs dude he wasn't nominated for i know it's outrageous he wasn't even the best player by far in the nhl that year um i like i like that there's a little

bit of difference between the heart and the lindsey i think that's the point it should be i i would say so i think they got the list right with kucherov mcdavid um mckinnon if i were to take a player off of that it feels so stupid to say kucherov and yet that's probably the guy i go with because of now this is the other thing that i'm worried about saying because i don't know how this aligns but did kucherov not have the most power play points out of all those players i don't know off the top of my head because like i know the lightning were um kucherov merchants i just i wonder if he was like if he put up a lot of does that that takes away from his what he did

during the season if you well they don't count so so jesse this is interesting jesse this is interesting because can't score points on the power play by the way the the power point the power play point leaders in the nhl were as follows kutcher off 53 mckinnon 48 okay panarin 44 mcdavid 44 yeah i don't know why would you even go there so it's less impressive when somebody scores take them both off fuck them so here's the thing it's harder to score at five on five but you could reverse that and be like yeah well it's easier to score on the power play and matthews did that less you know what i mean yeah he failed to do the easier thing and as we saw in the playoffs it's actually pretty helpful when you score on the power play i think that's a skill

that kucherov's allowed to have sure it lends to his game yeah so uh i the season austin matthews had was completely dominant my three would still be the three that they for the lindsey yeah okay and it's not even like adam has kucherov two or three you got him four yeah and what so what's your official voting for ted lindsey i would say uh you know what just for fun mckinnon has he won the lindsey before i know he's never won the heart i don't know what no he has no lindsey he's no lindsey so let's say mckinnon because again revenant mckinnon okay let's say he wins the heart and the lindsey this year all right which would be like i get that second mcdavid third matthews fourth kucherov who's fifth that's a good question it's a ballot you got to submit

five uh that's a really good question do you put well it should be panarin but if do you put in in like a do you put in like a uh hey you did real great for being the age that you are to sydney crosby and carrying that team i think hellebuck can be in that conversation yeah yeah quinn hughes man he's good no quinn hughes i think he's a little off of the art trophy he's garbage in front of the top 10 i'm totally kidding uh probably top 10 yes uh we don't want to erase leon dry sidle from this list i'll give you the top 10 in scoring how's that kucherov mckinnon mcdavid panarin pasternak matthews dry side all rantanen who often gets forgotten jt miller and william nylander and that's not everything obviously there's defense yes that matters

and all of this there's goaltenders that can be a part of this um i remember we had this conversation before the season ended and the five were the three dudes who scored a billion points in kutrov mckinnon mcdavid then matthews and crosby like i don't care what order you put your heart ballot in but i remember the conversation being it has to be one of those five so then what's interesting about this is a guy who is one of the most gentlemanly players in the league doesn't get penalized a lot is the lady bing he's also nominated as best defensive forward in the league but also leads the league in gold goal scored not nominated for most valuable to his team it's hard to do who's that matthews oh no it's really hard to do and he had 20 penalty

minutes and part of that he won't win the lady bing with 20 penalty minutes half of those penalty minutes came from a game misconduct that he got while he was cleaning up equipment yeah yeah yeah i think the voters recognize that yeah no they obviously like if you know that they know that we got some also i have to wonder that the lindsey's voted on by the players right yep yeah i don't know who nominates nhlp do you as a player i know you can vote on everybody i know the heart is prestigious uh it's 100 years of the heart is do you as a player feel a better sense of satisfaction knowing that your fellow players voted you versus whoever votes on the heart which is writers do you have a contract bonus for if you win the heart yeah a lot of

them do well yeah there's your answer yeah steven you said you don't know who nominates them the nominations are just from the voting yeah like these are the top three oh yeah that's how you get the nominees so they all voted on it and these are the top three interesting yeah um i think i think that um i like a spicy debate 17 18 uh connor mcdavid ted lindsey means a lot to him it should because you watch you see what happened that season taylor hall was the heart but you come in fourth or fifth with the with the writers i feel like having your peers recognize you in that instance you say that okay the writers missed something that year there's no reason i should have been fourth or fifth in

voting i i gotta look it up that year the heart the heart was the look at you go award it was taylor hall he finished in fifth in heart voting that season he wasn't even four wow and you win the ted lindsey amongst your peers i feel like mcdavid gets some solace in the fact that he's like yeah the writers probably got that wrong he was fifth and the and the argument at the time argument at the time was well they didn't make the playoff so you can't give it to him that had and i think that's ludicrous he was 21 years old there's some bias in that where it's the young kid he hasn't earned it yeah there's some like old man hockey man to that where you don't want to vote for the 21 year old kid even though they did vote for the 22 year old and

nathan mckinnon pretty sure he already had a heart to his name though before that yeah the year before yeah it would have been back to back um unbelievable i think if the true person i think that got robbed in that heart trophy discussion if we look back is nathan mckinnon okay i think that was his heart trophy year and if he's missing one on his resume it should have been that taylor hall uh heart trophy and it would have made more sense for the history of the game to have mckinnon win that year i think mckinnon's winning this year isn't there i really do isn't there he needs one didn't like kobe bryant and lebron james win like less than five mvps or whatever like during their careers i feel like that's that might be how we end up looking well you don't often see

where we players winning mvps back to back every year because people there's like a thing especially with with um and and we're guilty of this in the media of like okay maybe that's the obvious choice but what about if i'm smarter than everybody right and you know what i mean and listen i say that as a guy who just had a huge debate with jesse over the ted lindsey but like there is a little bit of like hipster sort of vibes where it's like oh i can't vote for that guy i voted for him last year i was on the taylor hall train that i was definitely not and looking back i'm like okay that was a bit silly everybody overthought it it's ridiculous i think it should have been mckinnon that year and yeah the voter fatigue exists across pro sports um i think you

look at the nba mvp uh last year nicola yokich should have had his third straight mvp i think it would have been and they gave it to joel mb and i think you look back to the history and you'd say yeah you know probably should have been yokich's again and he's probably going to win it again this year but um there is some weird hipster vibe about that and just to correct you there uh kobe has four mvps lebron has four as well i think right yeah no how many did mj get it's less than you think oh you thought it'd be like more than that well you like the way they're regarded in nba history no i think those numbers are about right you look at those individual seasons you see yeah probably four times they were the best player it's hard to win mvp it is it's oh yeah

fun to have debates yeah it's more about year in and year out and year in and year out that's that's the argument that i always say about henrik lundqvist i don't know how many vesnas he won i want to say it was like two um but every year the conversation would come up and there he is yeah top two top three goaltender every year right every year it's it's hard to be top five top 10 every single year oh yeah and these guys regularly are like last year if you were to say who were the best players in the league maybe matthews is off that a little bit because he only had 40 goals and wasn't as good but like it's usually the same customers it's mckinnon mcdavid kucherov's in there uh if you want to include defense it's like ko macar and yeah you

know there are this it's the same guys the same names coming up which is the current superstars we haven't we'll have these guys for a while and then there will be a changing of the guard like there was five six years ago could you guys tell me who the top three in heart trophy voting were from last season last i couldn't i don't even know who won uh probably mcdavid no matthews one Oh, yeah. McDavid got 60. Matthews won the year before. Five goals?

Yeah. So it's got to be McDavid. Let's say McKinnon and Kucherov. Pasternak? Oh. Yeah. Pasta also had over 60. I'm going to say McDavid, Pasta, Makar.

I don't know. Last season was the season that Connor McDavid had the unanimous MVP except for one vote. Oh. Who was the one? Do we know? He had 195 votes, and second place, you nailed it, David Pasternak. Let's go. Had one vote.

Who? Do you remember? We made a big deal about the writer. I do now. Because all their ballots are out when they come out. Wasn't it not a Boston writer? Yeah. Yeah.

We don't need a name name. Yeah. We litigate that whole thing. If you want to go back a year from now, or the last June when the awards were, we yelled about it. It was ridiculous. He should have had a unanimous MVP, and he didn't last season. and the third nominee was matthew kachuk oh a good pick man the florida panthers first off

you know people forget how florida went into the playoffs last year which was on the back of matthew kachuk so he was nominated for that before the playoffs even began yeah he had a great man the florida panthers like mind-blowing how they got into the playoffs and won last year and went all the way to stanley cup final but people forget that last year to this year they have a 10 win improvement 20 points that's enormous yeah no and then and then the year before like a couple years before that they won the president's trophy the year before the year before uh wasn't whatever brunette's year was it was quinville recently i think it was 22 yeah they won the president's trophy then traded uh the dude with the best left wing season ever in jonathan

huberto and uh became a better playoff team and if you don't remember the the writer gave mcdavid the fifth place vote okay does that jog your memory again that was that was no i don't remember that's just being mean he gave him the fifth imposter the first and he gave mcdavid the fifth place vote last year by the way had that been a toronto writer edmonton would have invaded toronto yeah there would have been a war it was the pittsburgh writer it was the pittsburgh writer yeah i remember that that's that's outrageous that's the dumbest friggin thing i think i've ever heard yeah i understood the argument like they made a compelling argument to put pasta one i was like okay i get it greatest regular season team of all time the boston was last year pasta

is the leader in that maybe you can make that argument even though mcdavid should have won it but to give mcdavid a fifth place vote yeah we know you're doing nonsense who was the second place vote for him can i ask uh his ballot i don't have it you don't have it okay no no i just want to know like if it's not mcdavid who i want to know who was third yeah i want to know who was four yeah two three four the further down you get the more interesting it gets yeah call them what you want knee knockers golden nuggets thigh slappers but our friends at manscaped refer to them as the boys knee knockers no that's a new one well i don't know if it is because that's how apparently people call it that people are saying thigh slappers listen golden nuggets not every

man has children stick to balls but every man does respond every man is responsible for the two boys below their waist and when the guys have more hair than they need you should trust manscape for all your grooming needs and listen they do more than just the balls they do the face too yeah not even with the same uh piece either it's not like you're gonna go you know yeah yeah no that's a that's kind of key that is something to emphasize we're talking about different products when we talk about the face or we talk about the balls yeah that's right yeah shave your chin flappers there is the lawnmower 5.0 ultra which is available to you right and then uh and it uses skin safe technology so you know protects against nicks and poles and unfun things like that it's

also waterproof which is important but jesse you use manscape products on your face yeah i use the beard one because it has a little dial it's called the beard hedger is the actual name of the product that's the one i use i like the little dial where you can set the exact length you want and it's consistent you know it's just every time you want the 5.5 or you want the 3.5 you just set it every time and you shave away and it's it's never like let me down it's been perfect there you go again not the same device but all available there's a different one for your balls manscaped uh 20 percent off and free shipping with the code dangle and manscaped.com that's 20 off and free shipping with the code dangle manscaped.com for the best your boys have ever looked and your face too

trust manscaped two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer that's why every step and dollar raised matters on september 19th join thousands in toronto for the princess margaret cancer foundation walk challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer register today at pmcfwalk.ca now we don't have to do they go listen to those up just like steve uh just like uh steve's heart and ted lindsey awards the nhl draft lottery stayed the same nothing about the lottery it it ended how it began which is forgot that even happened until you brought yeah so i was doing the stream for it and it was lots of fun but it was like and they

moved through it very quickly but it but how the team's finished st louis all the way down to san jose 16 to 1 everything stayed the same not a single team moved that's the first time since 2010 this doesn't happen a lot and it is going to happen from time to time years and i'll give the nhl a ton of credit here because you used to get if you finished last your chances at first overall pick were 25 then they were 20 used to be 100 now they're yeah now they're 18.5 so there's lots of opportunities for move for movement they are done by an outside third party source so you know it happens john bujigro spoiled it but there's two there's two storylines here obviously a lot has been made of the macklin celebrini his father is you know high up a sports science at the

I think VP of player Golden State Warriors. Yeah, Golden State Warriors. He's high up there. So that's cool that he gets to be in the same area. Number two, and this is the one that I'm surprised nobody's talking about, is there was a whole Zoom call with all the general managers. And I think there were a lot of general managers who would never have expected to be there when the season started.

I'm thinking Tom Fitzgerald. I'm thinking Doug Armstrong. I'm thinking Kyle Dubas. I'm thinking a few of the other names where these teams really disappointed. But when Pittsburgh's pick came up, I believe at number 14 or number 12, and that pick immediately goes to the San Jose Sharks through the Eric Carlson trade, you realize the magnitude of what that kind of trade can be for an organization. Mike Greer, let me remind you, the only parts of this deal that matter are Eric Carlson, salary retention, and the pick. yeah okay eric carlson goes mike greer is like fine we'll pick up 1.2 million dollars of his salary for quite a while for quite a while but fine we'll handle that leafs did it with castle

it happens sure um we're gonna get the pick back and it's gonna be top 10 protected which we're making it if you're mike greer you're making a bet that you probably get that pick within a year and he's right but what's crazy about it is the fact that it's about as close as you can get to 11th without being 11th and and i and i think i mean i'm sure dubas was like crossing his fingers right but that trade could like these guys forget you know what you know chicago has to do they've got us around bedard with like two or three more superstars right you got to do that this is a disaster for the penguin i am outstanding at your ability to make this about cal i think it's the most fascinating part of the lottery nothing happened i i'll load away i'm gonna say this

is actually wow good you think it's good yeah i mean it's a good thing uh because this okay okay next year penguin's getting better or worse worse to me exactly that's that's why you want to give up this pick now yeah well now was the time to give up the pick and now you have some certainty for your future sure you know if you suck you're gonna have your first round pick you know if you're good you can train it away you know now there's certainty for dubas and we like the the bunting crosby combo seems to work really well but what i'm fascinated by the penguins what are these guys gonna do if you end up moving off of carlson my thinking is you can recoup a lot of what you lost in that you think you can get a first round pack the first round pick back

maybe you probably have to retain and who's taking carlson and how much are you retaining well you're asking all the right questions but you recoup at least some of that the other option is you kick the can down the road and then you potentially give up something real you potentially give up like a top five pick and that to me is a disaster this is unfortunate it's not a disaster Eric Carlson had 101 points in 22-23, won the Norris. Same amount of games. He played 82 games. That's so many games.

That's a victory. It is so many games. And guess what? He played 82 with the Penguins this year. 56 points. Oh, because their power play stunk. I think Eric Carlson is way closer to 100 points than 56. Okay.

And Eric Carlson is 33. He's going to be 34 when the season starts. Tough. dude it's listen i'm not telling you it's a great situation i'm just telling you it's not a complete catastrophe okay if they don't make moves though it's not a my thing with the compliment that first that first round pick maybe that player never plays with crosby or whatever but they now don't have it to move somebody to get better for next year is my point yes that is bad it's also spilt milk like to to me the mistake was already made it was obvious for a long time that it was a

mistake this past season um if they squeak into the playoffs you can maybe stomach it but coming out of this giving up a pick somewhere between 10 and 15 is way better than giving up a top five well here's here's what would have happened if they'd had a top 10 pick they'd have traded down right they would have traded down and they would have got assets and players that's what i think would happen you might not be wrong dude this is a pretty good draft oh i know especially uh those uh top five that's why i had celebrini there but it's entirely possible he doesn't go well that's why i i thought it was going to be so interesting if teams moved up because the top three of this draft is stupid those russian kids are crazy um ivan demidov i wonder i don't think it's

gonna happen but i remember with john tavaris uh in that draft in 2009 there were rumors well one scouting agency had matt duchesne going first overall um but there were a few who were like there's this victor headman kid and you look at their careers like there's an argument that he should have gone first there's not much argument putting tavaris lowered in second but there's an argument headman's had a ridiculous career but now 2024 15 years later oh my god um you get this really high end forward and macklin celebrini and you have this huge kid in demidov it's uh it's interesting i i've spoken to some people with uh khl knowledge and they're all saying this kid is the real deal is he a center uh so i think demidov is the huge defenseman

okay and then there's another kid who's a forward because if you watch them i might i might be getting their names mixed if you watch the mike greer uh he's right wing demidov's right wing okay so who's the other kid who's the huge kid uh starts with an s i'll have to look i'm doing a great job uh yeah uh the my point my thinking is that um mike rears going center he wants a center he wants somebody to play center they want the top two centers right because they got will smith last year right um and will smith the uh the actor um it would be great to have a one-two punch of those two guys right you've instantly taken care of uh most teams major problem which is two great centers i think it's anton seleev is who i'm thinking of demidov is supposed to be

extremely good too and then there's artem uh levshunov who plays at you guessed it michigan state yes you mentioned that um there are some really really good players uh that are going to go in the top five or six we've seen trades end up a lot worse uh within the eric carl the leafs Oh, I think about I think about the Ottawa Senators trading away Matt Duchesne. It turned out to be a top three pick when they eventually sent the 2019 first round pick to Colorado because they chose to kept the 2018. They moved to 2019 ends up number three overall Colorado selects Bo Byram. Well, hey, how about this? The San Jose Sharks acquiring Eric Carlson for who turned out to be Tim Stutzler.

Yeah. Wow. It was a really good pick. Good move. Yeah. Yeah. and like even even the Sens trading away Matt Duchesne to the Columbus Blue Jackets like they get a pretty high draft pick there and they end up taking Lassie Thompson in that like there's

been worse picks the trades than the Eric Carlson one where it's a 12th overall pick which isn't this isn't great you know you know you expect it to be in the playoffs you expected that to be 16 or lower but it's it's not the worst thing to dig yourself out of it's so funny he's gonna be a first ballot hall of famer and every team that's traded for them or for him has gotten their ass kicked uh somebody in somebody in our chat yesterday uh said i'm hoping detroit gets to move up so that steve eiserman can draft cole eiserman uh there's a play no it's eiserman with an e-i-s-e-r uh he's from massachusetts but uh he's like a super talented goal scorer and it would be hilarious but i don't think he's going to fall to 14 i think vancouver should trade with

san jose for the first overall pick because they drafted uh macklin celebrini's brother aiden celebrini and they're all from the bc area so why not pair up the celebrinis like you have paired up the petterson is so uh you can have a full team of celebrinis and pettersons and while you're at it get both caulfields too yeah and then all the huses that's right just fill up with like three names your whole team i like that um it is anton saleev who's the six foot seven russian blue liner oh he was uh bob mckenzie had him ranked number two mid-season and he's dipped to number three which remember when we all distrusted bob mckenzie with the shane wright stuff and we're like shane wright's gonna go one what do you mean bob mckenzie has him at five and then shane wright

kept falling and we're like damn never never not trust bob mckenzie again yep his draft list is the best yeah well also we had heard the rumors too but we were like nah yeah nobody believed it yeah like he drop mckenzie put out the shane wright's not gonna go number one thing and everyone's like no he's gonna go one and then it happened i want to say i want to say cory prom and put it out there and we're like shut up and then yeah i went in a completely different order uh i want to say that uh i'm uh i'm excited for this nhl draft more than most for some reason and i don't know why it just seems i don't know i'm excited for this fear i'm excited for the the whole show of it because i had people on the stream last night telling me well they're like

well decentralized how does that how does that work and i'm like guys it's gonna make for better television and they're like drafts are never good tv i'm like you don't watch any other sports do you no i know i know why you're excited this is your first draft on a full night's sleep yeah well that'll be nice too this is you you haven't been full time at this company for well neither for a year not even a year isn't that incredible incredible uh jesse double overtime last night carolina new york great game great game carolina had if i'm not mistaken 116 shot attempts was that the total shot attempts when when igor shisterkin's playing like how he was last night the new york rangers are nearly impossible to beat like because he gets you every big save you need

and eventually the rangers because they have so many weapons eventually one of them's gonna get you and like last night it was chocek who got them an ot and after a penalty by brady shea who's a secret agent that was sent by james dolan years ago to the carolina hurricanes to commit this penalty in overtime uh second overtime chess not checkers exactly they're playing the long game with brady shea and there's just so many i thought carolina played the better game they had the more shots they had more offensive chances but igor was just on his game last night and it was unbelievable to watch when you make 50 plus saves in a hockey game it's crazy it's such a big difference from last year too because you know i keep going back to that series that the rangers

flatly should have won um you know you go okay it's igor shisterkin versus akira schmid the series is over and uh you know schmidt was great and schusterkin could have been better and the i thought the difference with the with the rangers offense this year and what they had against the devils last year is the lafreniere trocek panarin line is unbelievable it's so good and laugh had two goals last night we were on hat trick watch on the stream uh while we're watching that game if you don't know i'm streaming all the rangers carolina games we started with game two because we missed game one on sunday but we are going for the rest of the series so tune into that on the sdp and youtube channel the that second line is such a great weapon because for most

teams i would say 25 of the other teams in the national hockey league that's a first line oh yeah they're running it out as their second line and the two goals last night were such backbreakers and freddie anderson didn't have a bad game like i don't really blame him on a lot of on any of the goals really like the even the overtime winner it was a scramble in front it hit off of brett burns a little and then was in the in the crease area cho check shoveled it in like he had a good game but it just wasn't enough rangers are a good team man and dumb penalties yeah carolina took a lot of dumb penalties and well there's that rod brindamore whistle um also worth mentioning rangers fans i'm sure a lot of you have already gotten to this

i heard you last year rangers fans were all excited because a lot of them thought they were getting sheldon keith which was wild on account of sheldon keith was still the leafs head coach and then the rumor comes out that they're probably getting peter laviolette and they were all mad it's been pretty good yes i remember it just it didn't end well in nashville well i just remember it i mean does it ever end well for a coach no that's why you don't have the job anymore you know what i mean like i i remember we were going through laviolette's resume on the show and by the end of it i was like wait a minute why are people upset about yeah it's like all right you know is he the best with young players which he's been pretty good in new york is he the

best with this was that he routinely goes on deep runs and here he is uh up 2-0 on the carolina hurricanes who are a friggin wagon they're such a good team and you want to talk about frustrated teams around the nhl teams who think they're right there that's a team that's right there they have that's a real right there team they have more reason to they should not be playing the new york rangers in the second round that's insane um for the season that they had but man how are you not just tearing out your hair if if you cheer for the the hurricane trochek former hurricane laviolette he was the head coach when they won was he not yes he was in 2006 0506 he was the head coach when oh boy come on back to hauntsley yeah you come back and take this

series maybe i wonder if he went to paul maurice for advice to maybe to beat them the way that that Montgomery did with Babcock. There were so many just shit quotes. And that was one. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto

for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer register today at pmcfwalk.ca i want to i want to ask quickly about some of the other games here obviously um florida got beat up by boston pretty good is that an effect of florida was off for a week and boston wasn't um i think boston did a good job capitalizing on their opportunities and they they um capitalized on momentum because i i watched that game and

leading up to the bruins first goal i thought florida was way better um they controlled it boston's holding the fort and holding the fort and holding the fort and panthers go up one nothing and i'm like okay that's about what i expected then boston they get their chances and the moment i changed well the moment i considered changing my mind on this series wasn't the fact that the bruins won it's seeing uh it was it was jeremy swayman and i don't remember who his teammate was maybe trent frederick they're on the ground in front of the crease he's just made a save and they look at each other and start laughing i was just like oh boy they're confident now dude this might be a little different i mean bruins i mean you look at swayman's 950 safe percentage

he had against the leafs and you're like oh there's no way he can keep that up go look at tim thomas dude when they won the cup in 2011 oh you can get hot you can get hot well and there was a good enough team that if like who's the best goalie remaining in these playoffs numerically it's him i mean if you want to count the 17 games freddie anderson played in the regular season or whatever it was lee fans going man i wish we had him back i'm like no you don't he he was injured the whole year that's revision stop it that's revision go watch go watch his playoff games no you don't yeah it's no it's revision but in terms of how goalies are performing in these playoffs it's him ottinger though and yeah he's he's pretty good he's pretty good slow

start yeah uh i thought against vegas and then he turned it on dude this is the thing like none of those guys like even shisterkin who's performing very well like none of them are close no to the way i think i think shisterkin is pretty close he's undefeated how many ots could you have gone to last night jesse how many were undefeated undefeated right now that's him he just had a 50 save oh double ot win i don't know yeah but he allowed three goals bum i don't know if the that far okay fine i would say it's swayman one yeah shisterkin two and then there's a bit of a gap and the bruins are performing well enough that they can they can ride this goalie to a deep run i still like it's funny like they don't perform like anything special they really don't um they

just play really tight really responsible they avoid stupid penalties for the most part they have some high-end talent but for the most part they just grind you they just grind you and the panthers big time miss sam bennett isn't it funny that at one point in our lives swayman was benched for all mark in game two of the leaf series oh it's easily the worst decision the Bruins made in that series. You look back on it now. But they've been doing that for 20 games, haven't they? Yes. You look

back on it and you say the logic is there. That's what they did all season long. They went 1-2, 1-2, 1-2. But then you look at it now and you say, why? I feel like we have this discussion every year because some team tries to get cute and it hasn't worked yet. No. The playoffs are different. I think they learned their lesson last

year. Yeah. After the... No, they didn't. Oh, no. I think they did they learned their lesson in that they went to him early to see what they had yeah yeah that's fair and then and then because all mark was their starter last year i wish the leafs in retrospect have thrown the kitchen sink at swayman in game three oh yeah this is our opportunity we gotta kill this guy i heard some discussion about starting all mark in game one so that you gave give swayman a break from game seven to one against florida so you start all mark game one versus florida so you give swayman the extra little come on because you have two starting

goaltenders which they do which is a crazy luxury that no other team has really you might as well give all mark that game one start and you give him the rest instead of going on two days rest but like if your goaltender is 25 i would expect it to be okay yeah dude well especially since the leafs didn't exactly test them all that much in the previous series like there were shots there were scrambles but it wasn't you remember that picture of Bobrovsky last year in the conference finals and he had like lost 12 pounds he was just a rake like there was nothing left of him I didn't Swayman wasn't put to the test the way you would hope well you know what's funny um there there are times where like I look at 2011 and you know the backup to Tim Thomas was

tuka rask yeah and the bruins refused but then you look at a time where a team probably should have moved off their goalie sooner 2015 the tampa bay lightning played a broken and half dead ben bishop in favor of their rookie backup do you remember who that was vasilevsky was fucking vasilevsky no we can't we can't put andre vasilevsky in this position didn't they miss the playoffs the next year too uh it was like there were a weird year there where they missed the playoffs and got drew in two years later um oh uh i don't remember because they were like a top three pick or something and then they got surrogate chef out of drew in 2017 was the year the leafs made it and tampa should have but didn't because everybody was hurt right that's what it

was okay okay uh 16 i don't i also just want to quickly touch on the avalanche of stars which also went to overtime last night jesse by the way how many more ots could you have handled on that stream a million could you kept going yeah yeah no it's fun uh we had a blast avalanche stars they are fun those streams are awesome uh the the fact that miles wood ends this it was a pretty good game oh yeah like those are those are the kind of players you like you need the miles wood game you know what i mean like what's that like oh this is this is what i we need the thomas plecant it's game dude not to make it about the leafs but like dude you and i know i know i know but like you you need that game where you can go here's some depth dude you want to let's make

this about the leafs watching dallas and colorado play hockey leafs couldn't beat either of those no no like no i now why why do you say that because i think we're about to have a very interesting conversation why do you say that because of the high-end skill that they play with and the depth and the hockey that's just back and forth was was it extremely fast to you it was pretty quick paced did the players look big to you they were pretty big okay so i have a theory uh-huh move the puck we'll definitely move you're gonna you're gonna highlight this game in particular but my point is towards all of the series right now the level of hockey that carolina and new york played i don't think toronto could compete with that either i think you're

right yes i think you i think you're 100 right and but i i know i know your theory go ahead i know dallas and colorado dude the low camera angle camera in the arena there's only a handful of maddie might know this better than me because because uh you you do uh the production and all that um i want to say both calgary and edmonton have the low angle florida yeah has the low angle and the shark's angle is weird but the sharks are high the sharks have the worst angle and weird lighting and lighting yeah um and they need something new going on there and here if we could replace the light on maddie mike just for a sec the the low camera angle makes it feel like breakneck pace doesn't it yeah i would say so am i missing anyone i know there's four um

well i haven't done every single arena so i can't speak on like all of them but definitely the sharks is like brutal and also arizona's lighting was horrible wow oh yeah but it's not a surprise but yeah yeah yeah it's no it's not too knowledgeable on that subject but yeah okay well like i just i remember watching uh i think it was dallas vegas game seven and i was just like why do they all look like superheroes yeah and i went oh because they look way bigger and way faster because of the camera angle and extra frustrating about all that i don't know if it's a cultural thing or what but dallas fans just sort of stand throughout the game if the puck is on their side of the ice everyone standing that's a football thing yeah it's and i'm not telling them to sit down because

it's great we want toronto to act learn alive sometimes um the bang dude is hilarious got a war going on with one of the dallas fans it's pretty funny i you know what i was like that's kind of obnoxious and then he belly bumped the glass and i'm like nope never mind that's really funny there was a there was a guy one of the nashville games that he just stood throughout while everyone was sitting and i'm like i hope you can fight i really hope you can fight one thing with the dallas uh colorado game that happened last night and miles would score in the ot winner is the one thing he showed on that play is his pure speed and nhl edge has been pretty useless for a lot of things except for tracking the speed of players because the other things they show they

have you can't sort by player you can only sort by percentile so the only kind of metrics that really matter in terms of nhl edge are the speed ones so i looked up miles wood speed on nhl edge and the eye test lends to what miles wood always demonstrates on the ice he is one of the fastest people on planet earth on an nhl rink he is in the 98th percentile through this past regular season of top skating speed and speed bursts over 32 kph and he's wow nhl edge is useful for something this is the only thing that i want to emphasize that this is the only thing it's good at and he the one of the few people in the league like he's ahead of almost everybody in the league and one of the few people ahead of him i'm willing to bet is nathan mckinnon

like i'm willing to bet is one of his uh line mates it would be fun if you could sort by player but the way the nhl wants it is that you can't make fun of guys who are at the bottom so they don't give you the ability to just sort by all players but i can check if you want to give miles so fast that he's lost some teeth in the i can check to see what percentile nathan mckinnon like okay if there were a bunch of really good players at the bottom we would all come to the same conclusion like oh it doesn't matter they don't want you to come to that conclusion no no like oh it doesn't matter that they're slow you know what i mean no but like if there's a bad player they're slow it's it's all right we already think they're bad right but if say say marner is at the

bottom and next to him not right but like hypothetically i'll give you somebody let's say let's say matthews is at the bottom sure that's to noah gregor people might screen cap that and be like aha he's there look at this you loser and the nhl is trying to avoid that for some reason like that's their thing what yeah i think what was it uh uh greg washinsky did a deep dive on this and to get to the bottom of any stat it takes like two and a half hours and this one there you can't like it's not you can't scroll down like you can't this one this is just the percentile steven your brain is correct your theory if we go to nhl edge and we check nathan mckinnon's top speed and speed bursts over 32 kph he is in the 99th percentile miles wood was in the 98th so

that means if you can ever see the actual rankings we would know that nathan mckinnon is above miles wood there you go no i'd rather be based on percentiles i have to guess yeah we literally have to sit here and just just calculate the percentages ourselves oh my god oh my god but anyway it's cool that we know i just wish you would just allow us to sort it no by player nah and just tell us what if we didn't do that though remember people don't go to nhl.com for stats i i know there's uh that's a direct word from gary bevin yeah the cap friendly thing they don't care about that kind of stuff it was yeah that's what it was that's how long they've been fighting entire story yeah who just won the cup there gare it's freaking vegas fans don't care about

that kind of stuff general manager um where was i where was i gonna go the skating uh oh uh elliot freeman was talking about um i want to say he wrote something somewhere where players want to control what stats about them are out there. And this is a big problem that I have with hockey players. Like I understand privacy and all that. Um, you are, but what you're asking for is fundamentally against the idea of being a pro athlete. Um, you know, I don't, you want to live a quiet life and you don't want people to talk about you and you don't want people to know the stats okay so you don't want anyone to be interested in you so the fewer people come to your games the fewer people uh watch you on tv listen on the radio consume stuff on social media

when contract time comes around you better be asking for league men don't ask for a dollar over league men because you are doing the bare minimum embrace being a pro athlete what the how are you no no no i want i want i want everything and i don't want to have to pay the price for it you're a pro athlete what was you i'm sorry i'm sorry that you got good at hockey overnight and only just discovered this you didn't have an entire lifetime of trying so fucking hard to make the nhl just to make the nhl and be like what what what do people watch before like a bunch of these guys have like dads and uncles here who were in the nhl wouldn't it be cool wouldn't it be cool if we got to do this show and nobody ever disagreed with us right

wouldn't that be cool or listened or even well no we want them to listen we just don't want them to happen no no no adam see for this comparable to be apples to apples uh-huh we would want all the money like we need advertisers and we need people to subscribe but not listen yeah or or respond i think the response thing is is key to this right because people are interested so what are we doing i know i know no we don't want anyone to be last okay so the nhl standings just go up to 20 it should be the top 20 teams and then you gotta figure out the bottom 12 just no draft lottery just just guess just yeah with the first overall pick you'll find out next year yeah and here in the sharks get it how'd they get it i don't know if somebody wanted to pay

me like eight million dollars a year to play hockey i don't care if they could look up all my stats like what what the fuck you're thinking you're bad at hockey no i'm not anyway i'm in the nhl i'm in the nhl you can look up how good or bad i am i gotta show i gotta call you out on that one jesse because you are a rare breed of human being and i wish i had a little more of this and steve you can you can back me up on this not only that not only six foot four not only handsome not only athletically inclined god damn it but also but also the fact that you tend not to care what people think and i have had that's that's something that's inherent with you whereas that is something that i have had to learn over many many years most of them with you going adam i

don't think you should care about i think it should be easy to convince an nhl player who's like even if you're on the fourth line and you're making a million bucks a year to play in the show it's okay that i can see that you're 212th in skating speed that's fine i think we should get rid of the handshake after a playoff series because that makes the losing team feel bad um and also they shouldn't have to be on the ice for the stanley cup ceremony like seeing it no i think that makes them feel bad and um if you're losing i think you should be able to skip the last five minutes of a game um and uh like what are we doing what are we doing okay i want the life i want the millions and millions of dollars and i want to

and i don't want to pay a a price for it yeah no i don't want to trade anything for that yes no no no no no i make the money because i'm really good at hockey and that's that god news for you not how it's not how it works yeah you're in a business yeah well here's the thing you say that and yet how it works is the way it is so actually it does work that way that's not how it works actually the nhl begs to differ and you're gonna get lapped and lapped and lapped and lapped as jesse said quoting alan yes the revenues are at 6.5 billion they should be at 12 yep there's but go listen to asian provocateur that's out today like you're listening to this podcast that's already been out all morning go listen to it alan did a fantastic job on that adam wilde mediocre

job but he was there too i'm okay being mediocre no adam respect spectacular with alan i think you guys had a great convo for it was 54 minutes of just straight great hockey talk it's fantastic stuff he also talked a lot about utah and that has been forgotten in all this but you remember sean dersey is a utah hc player uh so alan's in the know alan's in the know and i asked about it uh and it was yeah his answers are great he also has a theory on what the leaf should do that's like right off the top too like you guys don't waste time alan's like you know what you need people people when they have private conversations with me they know everything to do with the Leafs you know when he's talking to other GMs and agents they they

got all the answers yeah no no I I think what the Leafs should do whatever Alan said is it's it's just people shouldn't pay attention to them I saw people like like tut tutting at Canucks fans for going nuts after winning their series against Nashville have you this is how I know you don't watch anything other than hockey have you ever seen a video anywhere of new york knicks fans that's how i know you don't watch anything other than hockey right those people are out of their minds right where's this coming from they're out of their mind there was someone talking about like oh canucks fans they're gonna burn the city why did you bring that up i missed i don't know the show's gone on too long we do need to wrap listen to me i sound like dutch vanderlyn

we have another fucking show to record why didn't we get all the conducts fans I don't know I asked you last episode if you could leave me some time to answer questions from the fans because I got like 300 questions and you didn't leave me any time so Friday we can do it almost all well we're gonna have a lot

more questions yeah I don't think we gotta do press conference yeah we'll get to them leave me some time alright that's okay I'm sorry we had to hit all the series Adam Wilde that's right I'm Thursday who's playing

Vancouver Edmonton baby gonna be a fun series I hope the fans don't get carried away oh I think they will they will

by the way thank you to all the Canucks fans that have embraced me Oilers fans I can't wait to meet you the Steve Dangle podcast follow the guys on Twitter

at Steve underscore Dangle at Adam W Y L D E and at Jesse Blake connection complete Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research.

Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.