The Steve Dangle Podcast - Shanaplosion | May 19, 2025

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Starting point is 00:02:04 Scotiabank. You're richer than you think. the steve dangle podcast with your host steve dangle adam wild and jesse blake oh hello everybody and as the three clowns are here yep haha it's us it is us we got here with our big goofy shoes on in our colorful cars and we got down here to sport check at maple leaf square they opened the store for us that's it's victoria day so nobody uh nobody's actually open but they are uh clearing up maple leaf square right now as we speak they're tearing it down behind us yeah it's a little on the nose i think they probably made that call around uh nine minutes to go in the second period

Starting point is 00:02:56 last night they got the uh the penske truck rental ready to go maybe and said hey guys we we should we should probably deconstruct this thing it's over did you notice the balloons in union station are already gone i haven't been in the union state well i don't go to union station they had this crazy balloon display right outside the main gate right next to the huge poster oh right at gate one playoff 2025 and austin matthews isn't on it for some weird reason and uh all the balloons are gone yes that came down like overnight yeah yeah yeah do you think they popped the balloon one at a time just got sent people interns in there with a pin and just no they had to bite them with their teeth i would love to see that all right so here's how today's show is gonna

Starting point is 00:03:39 gonna go just so you guys sort of know what to expect two hours of unbridled read no uh so we are going to talk about the game and then after we're going to talk about the ramifications of the game and i'm sure both topics will spill over into each other and because it was the long weekend there wasn't a whole heck of a lot of news going on elsewhere there are a couple news and notes will slip in at the end um but like this is about as all leafs as you're gonna get which i'm sure is what nobody's tuning in for i'm sure fans of other markets definitely are not tuning in just for this uh so we will start with game seven leafs panthers scotiabank arena and let me let me just throw this at you maple leaf square itself 3 000 people wow now behind maple leaf

Starting point is 00:04:25 square there are overflows and it goes blocks long so the where the where the Leafs play if you've never been in Toronto uh is just a few blocks away from where the Blue Jays play and basically three blocks down there were fences on the sidewalks and because they had to keep the roads clear fences on the sidewalk for people in overflow there was probably 10,000 people outside last night if the Leafs ever made the cup final uh you could set up TVs all the way from Scotiabank Arena to the Rogers Center we wouldn't we probably wouldn't if that ever happened we probably would have to stay in the building here like there are condos upstairs we'd have to rent a condo there be no way we could go home oh like how would we get down here would you do it would you get home

Starting point is 00:05:11 I don't think you could ride on the side of the train I guess like I don't I don't know how you would do it like those crazy TikTok videos from India where they're like literally riding the give me so much anxiety there's the the india ones the japan ones it's great all the japan ones are crazy and i'm just like uh i don't know i'll play video games at home yeah so so i'm too i'm too old now i'm afraid going into this game and obviously on the pre-show last night jesse and i talked about this is this is the game game six was the game now this was the game where we talk about whether this is the core that got it done finally finally broke through and And there's plenty of examples of that.

Starting point is 00:05:50 I'm thinking about the early 90s Pittsburgh Penguins. I'm thinking about the late 90s Detroit Red Wings. I'm thinking about the 2017 Washington Capitals. Teams that shoulda, coulda, woulda, and finally broke through. And then there were teams that just never did. And people are like, hey, like the Sharks or the Blues. No, those teams won series. It's so insulting that Thornton and Marleau keep getting brought into this conversation.

Starting point is 00:06:16 I don't remember the stats offhand. But Thornton and Marleau, if I'm not mistaken, won nine playoff series each. Multiple conference final appearances. They went to the Stanley Cup final. What are you talking about? Since the lockout in 05-06, the Sabres have won more playoff rounds than the Leafs. And the Sabres haven't made the playoffs in 14 years. Dan Tenser had one.

Starting point is 00:06:40 The Oilers have won more playoff series or as many playoff series in the last three weeks as the Leafs have in 20 years. it's crazy now i'm sitting here and i'm thinking this has got to be this has got to be a real like you're coming in and you feel the weight you must feel the weight of the world if you're a player uh yes that is the one part of the narrative today that i'm sure we're going to pick apart limb by limb um that is true like there's undoubtedly pressure that follows this team around you like how could you say there isn't but beyond all that um you know you got to get in you gotta be a player that's that's what it is your job and the leafs uh it was a question of what

Starting point is 00:07:25 leafs were we gonna get were we gonna get game five leafs or game six leafs we were all hoping for game six leafs and jesse and steve after game five were both uh uh just like nostradamus both of you what a waste of four days you guys said hang on hang on hang on you guys said you guys said oh they'll win game six and then they'll do it heartbreaking fashion in game seven and did they give us a single reason to believe they would win game six after game five no but we all knew we all knew so easiest thing to predict in the world so we get into this game and for anybody that didn't watch the Leafs were outchanced 21 to nothing to start the game yeah yep and only a third of those chances made it on net so maybe they're good no you know what it was a horrible

Starting point is 00:08:16 start to the game other than the penalty at the end of the first period you could very easily argue they were the better team after it was 21 nothing they had a good mid first period the knee lander had a really good chance to score lawton had a partial break lorenz had a break and that might have been their last scoring chance honestly the gomi scored on i don't know if yeah i guess it's yeah he scored he scored okay last until the third period sure you know what i mean they let in the first goal and died died like how else do you that that is the most definitive for years it's like yeah but we could blow it up but but what if You don't need any more proof than this.

Starting point is 00:09:09 They allowed one goal completely imploded. Hugest margin of defeat for a home team in NHL history tied. Get rid of whatever this is. Now you are jumping ahead. Yeah, I know. I know. But like, you got to keep me on track today, man. You got to keep me on track today.

Starting point is 00:09:29 So they come out of the first period and they've killed that penalty. They killed that penalty. So good. And Chris Tanev had to take that penalty. It was a too-many-men-on-the-ice penalty. If he hadn't have touched the puck, there would have been a breakaway for the Panthers, so he did the right thing.

Starting point is 00:09:42 He probably did. And so you go, okay. They kill the penalty, and Steve went, rah! It was guttural. I was like, yeah, all right, let's go. Because I still believed. And I thought, like, here's an opportunity for the Leafs to, okay, you had a flat first period, nerves, whatever.

Starting point is 00:10:00 Calm down, get into the thing, come back out. and when they get into because they were showing signs of life a huge signs of life they could easily won that game after one i wouldn't have been shocked are you kidding no not either way not at all and so then we get uh into the second period and three minutes and 15 seconds in seth jones takes advantage of one of the worst morgan riley pinches i think i've ever seen it It was just flat out. And I'm not here to tear people to ribbons. It's bad.

Starting point is 00:10:32 It was a really bad read. And it's a play that, and this is what the Leafs are constantly accused of in this era or were constantly accused of in this era because I believe this era is over. They were constantly accused of making the complicated play when the simple one would do. All Morgan had to do was gap up on his guy,

Starting point is 00:10:53 let Seth Jones come to you, let the puck come to you, which is something Berube preaches, guys. And he probably goes head-to-head with Seth Jones, and maybe Seth Jones even gets a shot off, but it might get deflected, or it goes to the thing. He doesn't have a wide-open look at Joseph Wall. And so...

Starting point is 00:11:11 He places that shot. Oh, it's a great shot. Really good shot. But that shot never needed to happen. No. Never needed to happen, and it was just because Morgan was like, I'm going to pinch now. Everybody get on board.

Starting point is 00:11:24 It was a terrible choice. It wasn't like a smart calculation. It's a low percentage play. And in games like that, that kind of stuff kills you. Now, you think, okay, it's 1-0. And everybody in the chat for Steve, if you were watching, was like, okay, a lot of hockey to be played. There was like 38 minutes left in regulation.

Starting point is 00:11:40 There's a lot of hockey to be played. Very few teams, except for the Edmonton Oilers, win 1-0 in a playoff game in an elimination game. Being down multiple goals is their superpower. Yeah, yeah. They probably have a winning record when down multiple goals. then about four minutes later it's anton lindell and this line with luster ryan and marshan has just been a killer guys absolute murder leafs had no answer for it the entire series it's so insane

Starting point is 00:12:07 that the panthers have barkov and baby barkov that's lindell anton lindell is baby barkov like again his tenure as a panther president's trophy and second round cup final cup champions and right now he's in the final four again like i'm not saying he's a straw that stirs the drink but he's it's nice to have him on board can't believe they have baby barkov it's crazy it's crazy jesse mm-hmm you saw this game from above like yes i i watched the game like two and a half times now you've watched it two and a half times yeah but you're actually there i watched it live and then i watched the clips i make live and then i watched it all back this morning so like a grind tape you like to grind tape well video coach jesse you showed us a really good

Starting point is 00:13:01 clip i don't know if i have a million of them like if you the first period in particular you mentioned it those first 10 minutes some of the worst hockey i've seen the least play in a 10 minute span until the second period came around because i think that's that second period jones scores there but those first three minutes are ugly hockey yeah like the first three minutes leading up to that goal the panthers made an adjustment in between the first in the first intermission where they discovered if we attack the leafs they're gonna crumble and on that play where Seth Jones hops up in the rush that's something they were doing for the couple minutes before that and maintaining opportunities where the D's just going to come with everybody

Starting point is 00:13:45 everybody's going to rush the play and the Leafs are playing back on their feet and allowing every opportunity that they want and I don't think the Leafs won a single board battle in that first 10 minutes of that first period and then they were like all right the next 10 minutes because they had those chances like you talked about and then in the second that that in the nine years that they've all been together what is it now seven nine years whatever it is that one second period it was the word most disgusting hockey i've ever seen them play i cannot believe the team we saw in the second out of the leafs was the same team we saw for most of the first austin matthews in the first period was a rabid animal yeah he was good he cleaned out everyone and unfortunately

Starting point is 00:14:35 the leafs were in their own zone too often when he was on the ice he was winning draws jesse noticed what was what was the clip you showed yeah yeah that's the one i was bringing up here so austin matthews is in the they're in the defensive zone the leafs are austin matthews wins a clean face off here um over to the right side of where he's facing the Leafs get the puck in the zone they maintain possession it's clean they come around the back of the net and they lose possession to the Panthers they try that I think it's is it Marner there or it's Tanev who has the puck he tries to pass it over to Nyes and they lose this board battle and the Panthers get a clean shot on goal eventually after they muck up things and they get it back up top and they

Starting point is 00:15:18 get a shot on goal and that happened a million times in that first period and even more uh in the second period and matthews was a complete animal animal and it's the only reason they survived and i don't know if it went away or if the panthers just managed to get the puck away from them they weren't even in that game you know what they were in that game for five seconds exactly five seconds in the third period when max domey brings the team within two his reaction hey we're not there yet we're not there yet i but i believe i did believe here's another example of just the leafs crumbling and not being able to break out of their zone i don't i don't know what happens when they see the neutral zone coming at them

Starting point is 00:16:03 but for some reason they stop playing hockey it's scary matthew nyes has the puck he gets a clean breakout you know he has the puck on his stick and Matthew Nyes decides to send a pass directly to the Panthers after he gets a little bit of pressure from Barkov I don't understand the decision why is this going to the middle of the ice so so it's it's Matthew Nyes there's a puck Mitch Marner's to his left he decides Barkov's coming at me I'm gonna send this pass right to Seth Jones like and and they lose possession the Panthers get it and they remain in the zone look at benoit look at poor benny with the craziest panic crossover he is putting his whole damn body into yeah

Starting point is 00:16:48 it looks like it's you remember that you know that family guy bit fast animals slow children you know like that's what he looks like he's running man for anybody who's a fan of hockey It was disgusting display of hockey on the ice by the Toronto Maple Leafs. They didn't know how to play anymore. And that's what's so disappointing about these losses because we know they have it in them. We know we've seen them play competent hockey. And in this second period, everything went out the window. There's a channel I follow that uses footage and gets away with it and bless them.

Starting point is 00:17:31 We're not brave enough to do that. Oh, we'd never get away with it. We would never get away with it. would be all over our shit are you kidding me yeah um that's a whole other issue but it's hockey psychology and they did a breakdown of the leafs in game six and here's what the leaves did here's what the panthers were doing here's how the leaves completely neutralized it and here's how they countered and they waited and they waited i i cannot believe the same team that essentially performed brain surgery in game six was this team losing at operation like i i cannot it's

Starting point is 00:18:09 difficult to wrap your head around like i just did a cbc hit uh for news world so it's not like the sports channel and it's funny doing news hits about sports because they ask you very basic questions and when they bring it to the most base level it's actually kind of hard to answer they're like how is this team with all the money and all the resources and everything like how is this the same team how do they go from six one to two nothing to six one again both of those six ones at home yep uh it's i i the one thing like i i believe the panthers with and again we're gonna get into this later it's a million percent between the year the the ears it's been between the ears for years and

Starting point is 00:18:57 Brendan Shanahan like this is this is you know hyperbolic I mean he's a member of the hockey hall of fame he should be unemployable I assume we have a Brendan Shanahan we'll get there

Starting point is 00:19:11 you know what you're teasing the entire episode you're just going he's like you know what this guy this is where we're going and I like it if you want one more here's Carlo unable to break out um carlo has the puck behind the net is is like oh there's pontus i'm gonna pass over the puck and it ends up uh he gets the puck to pontus and ekblad just checks him and the panthers end up with the puck but here so go back just uh slightly yeah a little bit more a little bit okay okay

Starting point is 00:19:43 yeah yeah there's holmberg yep he gets the puck what is he supposed to do with it the panthers know he's getting the puck yeah he is surrounded look how they swarmed come out with your hands up you're surrounded they they for they four check the hell out of you they're glad has him on the wall there's a trailer for if he goes back to carlo they're gonna cut off the pass to the d-man who's over there you're screwed as this fourth liner slash healthy scratch man who randomly finds himself in the top six in a game seven there's what's he supposed to do and i think this last one here is a perfect example of the attack mentality that they had all night because a team that is afraid a team that's never been in these situations before probably doesn't send

Starting point is 00:20:38 three guys to the one guy with the puck they're kind of sitting back and they're going the other way and they're playing defense but the panthers decided coming out in this second period if we just attack the puck these guys don't know what to do the league consistently it clip and clip and clip you see them just go after the puck carrier and the least fumble it and they do something incorrect and i don't think there's a single player who had a good night on the Toronto, maybe a couple, but I want to say this. I think that I think in that particular situation, Jesse, it's the same thing they get taken advantage of every playoffs,

Starting point is 00:21:11 which is we take forever to get set up. Well, they, if you watch, I'm begging leaf fans to watch the Dallas stars get set up. I'm begging leaf fans to watch the Edmonton Oilers get set up. The, the stars and the Oilers, what makes those teams so great and so frustrating and jets fans, you know, this, you get the puck into the Dallas zone and it's all, Oh, Hey, it's deep in there oh no it's already at center dude most of the western conference fast most of

Starting point is 00:21:36 the western conference is a different sport like oh it's if you watch them crazy it's it's crazy how much different they play in the west to the east so this is this is part of the this is part of the thing actually that you know underrated part of the way craig berube wanted them to play because sheldon keith was you know keith came from the kyle dubas and brendan shanahan school of take your time get set up don't give away the puck maintain possession that was the key don't force plays which you understand it's a great theory but the problem is for so many plays when you've got yeah they they do it anyway but anyway when you've got a guy bearing down on you and you are used to making decisions slowly and worried about making the poor decision then you start thinking instead

Starting point is 00:22:19 of reacting what and and what happens is is the florida panthers are driving in all of these games especially the ones where the Leafs really didn't show up game five and game seven, you have the Leafs bending out of their own position. So now I've got a guy bearing down on me and Steve and Jesse are on my line and I can't trust that they're going to be where we practiced they would be. Do you know what I'm saying? And this is, they were, even on a line change, they got a guy deep, Chris Tanev's behind the net with a puck

Starting point is 00:22:46 and there's still a Panther on him. Tanev, by the way, who absorbed over 100 hits in 13 games, no other player in the nhl has received 60 hits like the panthers knew their man and they targeted the shit out of them yeah and it's crazy because i said this before the series began paul maurice miked up gave the game away pound their d so that when game seven shows up they have nothing left and that's exactly what they did they hammered chris tanov they hammered jake mccabe they hammered morgan riley and like they can say what they're going to do to you into a microphone on camera kill you on home ice call it puck luck stick up for you in the media holy shit what

Starting point is 00:23:42 kind of a humiliation kink is this like oh man the idea oh my god the idea that your opponent feels bad for you and like this whole tour they're on this morning we'll talk about it about about how oh i feel bad for them that's the most pathetic end to this whole thing that's insane i wouldn't i can't believe it now i assume we're gonna play all those clips oh yeah we'll get to it the gadget goal that can get us back into the game if you want that's the 3-0 goal that's tavarez trying to force a bastard willie willie's again not strong enough on the puck and i don't think he was strong enough on the puck all night nobody had a good night i don't i don't know why you want to cape for any of these Leafs.

Starting point is 00:24:22 I literally just, Max Domi, I thought was nice. That's about it. Max Domi had the coming into the game tied for the most game seven goals amongst active Leafs. Which is insane. He was tied with Pacioretty, and now he takes the lead. Now he has the most. Four career game seven goals.

Starting point is 00:24:37 I guess Max Domi had a good game. I thought that line was actually all right. He was dialed. Domi was dialed the last couple of games. He was. Domi has no fear. No, he doesn't. He doesn't care.

Starting point is 00:24:45 To a fault. He's reckless because he has no fear. We see him for an entire series take penalties that he shouldn't take as a fourth-line player a lot of the time. Sometimes a third-line player take penalties that he shouldn't be taking, but then he scores in a game seven because he has no fear. John Tavares is coming here. The goal visualizer does a nice job on this one.

Starting point is 00:25:05 John Tavares is trying to break out. What do the Panthers do? They see him there. They get everybody coming at him. He's slow. John Tavares can't get out fast enough. He sees Willie up the ice. Off the boards!

Starting point is 00:25:18 Oh, my God! He tries to force a pass to Willie off of the boards. Yep. Willie can't get there quick enough because Seth Jones is on him. And neither can Holmberg. And Seth Jones is the guy tonight. Speed demon Seth Jones. Yeah, he's better than every Leaf.

Starting point is 00:25:31 Faster than every Leaf. He's a good skater. Seth Jones gets the puck, and it turns into a goal. Sorry, is he a better skater than William Nylander? No, no, no, no. The reason I said that is too many people were analytic thumping when the Panthers went out and got Jeff Jones. That's fair.

Starting point is 00:25:50 Guys, he's played in Columbus and Chicago. He played in Columbus and Chicago, but also he's got Ekblad. He's got Forsling. He's got the entire Panthers system. He's got Barkov. He's got Reinhardt. He's not making 9.5 with the Panthers.

Starting point is 00:26:14 Spencer Knight, that's a hefty price to pay. They have Bobrovsky, and they're probably going to go for a cup this year after winning it last year. They're playing with house money. To go out and get Jones suspiciously right before Ekblad gets a 20-game suspension, I thought I was one of the only people who I was like, you know what, I actually don't think this move's that bad for the Panthers. And here he is, he buries the Leafs for the second time.

Starting point is 00:26:43 He buried the Leafs in that Columbus series. He was great. frig uh so that's three nothing on the board they waste the next over they waste the next 10 minutes or whatever and then yeah because it was like 9 39 when he scored yeah right all three of those goals happened within seven minutes of each yeah and the game the game was over once they came out of the second like when they entered the second period and you saw how they were playing the game was done and then this just like it's really over so max domey does get a goal to start the third and what i thought was great and every fan went boom yeah the boost

Starting point is 00:27:21 started i don't want them to win i know but hey what happened when domi scored though what they huge pop he's like freaking and everyone's like yeah and every single person in that building believed right was seth jones's goal that was called back before the domi goal yes yes yeah and by the way that should have been a goal every day that's a goal every day that's a goal that should have been a goal no he like bowled over joseph wall and that's what made the well the hockey night and panel said it should have been a goal so i felt pretty good about myself i was saying to my wife i'm like that's a goal i don't is absolutely a goal anyone who says anything to do with goalie interference or kicking with any conviction is lying yeah you're right but i felt

Starting point is 00:28:01 like it was a goal i i don't think he kicked it but he did uh uh the he his i don't want to say kick let's say kick he kicked the puck into wool stick and forced that into that which you can't you can't score a goal while you're running into the goalies pads i feel like that's against the idea of scoring a goal and that's the whole reason we have goalie interference i think it was the right and also he wasn't like it's not like he was pushed or shoved in the wall i i personally thought it was the right call yeah goalie interference and the leafs wouldn't have won anyways regardless of if that puck went in or well we know that now yeah even even then we kind of knew that so at the time i was like well it could be nice so we get we get the domey goal

Starting point is 00:28:42 and we're like hey all right and you see on the bench lane lambert and uh and mark savard who are allowed to show emotion even though craig berube hates it when they do uh what do they do mark savard was like yeah that's one he sees it you're like come on let's go because they probably had a conversation between the second and the third intermission and said hey boys and it was nice and early too it was nice and early there you go that goal goes in and i'm i genuinely was like you always got to be open to magic you have to be open to magic happening and i was i think everyone was yeah i think it was craig simpson on the broadcast uh he was saying they needed a goal in the first five minutes and they got one the first two yeah he was he was getting ready for

Starting point is 00:29:26 the comeback call and he was setting it up and 47 seconds later so at seven so that goal happened at 17 uh 53 then at 17 1706 a2 list of ryan and from brad marsh and that bloody line and you need a save so this is a couple of things right it's it's joseph so it's a bad defensive positioning and it's joseph walt not covering his post no he is rarely out of position it's a good completely lost for the love of god i don't i don't know where i don't know what he was thinking and i thought at that point i'm like put stallers in he's dressed put him in you got it and and i don't think he was ever gonna take the net they just dressed him for nicely nicey nice wool could have been having an arm hanging off and i think stallers wouldn't have played sometimes life

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Starting point is 00:31:56 so then so with that goal in the the 47 seconds that elapsed in game time there was an ice scrape that delayed the game after the domey goal and i wonder if just if that ice scrape didn't have because there was something stuck on the ice like a black thing and they had to come out and they had a scrape which they shouldn't like there shouldn't be a time out there you know and it was actually like i don't know four minutes of real world time that delayed the game there i wonder if that ice scrape doesn't happen if the guys's legs are a little bit more motivated you know and i wonder if just kind of it's i don't think this is any reason they lost or anything but the magic part of things i feel like the hockey gods in that moment were like you're not

Starting point is 00:32:37 even gonna get the momentum from this goal we're gonna pause the game here to scrape the ice you know it felt very leafsy this is the leafs death by popcorn yeah i've talked about this before but there's this weird experimental documentary you can still find online i think it's called death buy popcorn and it's the original winnipeg jets ironically kept running into the same damn team in the playoffs it was the edmonton oilers and wayne gretzky and dale howarchuk was going off one year and the jets were going off and they were going to beat them and the fan throws a bag of popcorn onto the ice oh god there's a delay and the oilers come out of the delay and they score and they win the game and the jets never recover the franchise never recovers and they go to

Starting point is 00:33:21 arizona and then utah and the franchise has only this season recovered yes because even 25 years in arizona they could not recover no it's taken them 30 years to recover from one bag of popcorn i feel like it went a little underrated because of everything that goes on with the leafs but that little ice scrape interesting it kind of affected the the kind of a butterfly effect on the world hey uh you know it'd be cool if you had the mental fortitude to get past it no they don't though and this is the problem what was every fan in the building for those four minutes mad when the Leafs like when the Leafs were down in the second period you know I've seen so much and we'll get into this a little bit later I'm not expanding on it now but I've seen so much about

Starting point is 00:34:05 well the Leaf fans Leaf fans are not active participants enough there was 10,000 people outside last night there was 18 and a half thousand in there but you know what the criticism is well when the Leafs get down the fans go silent and it's therefore it's the fans fault are you are you not getting into it I'm not getting into it okay I'll get into it later Joseph Wall no but my point is that the Leaf fans until that goal yeah were actively going go Leafs go anyway despite the terrible start in the first no they despite booed them into the at the end of the second because they did nothing no but but I'm talking about in that first set that that first 10 minutes when they let in those three goals in the second period i still heard go leafs go chance

Starting point is 00:34:45 up until the booze at the end of the second period i did go into the end of the game so then luster ryan and scores popcorn goal and then you know the game out from there you know that's pretty much it like i went to the bathroom and i came back out my wife's like hey uh reinhardt scored and i was like okay good and then to just salt in the wound brad marshand who is i believe second only to Gordie Howe with points against the Leafs in the playoffs in their career gets the empty netter from Luster Ryan

Starting point is 00:35:17 and that line was unbelievable and deserve all the flowers when Gordie Howe did that he did it while being Gordie Howe but also there were only six teams yeah like the odds of Marchand running into the Leafs this often it's psychotic on

Starting point is 00:35:33 the Reinhardt goal Chris Tanev like it's Craig says again on the on the broadcast talking about assignments like he kind of blew that he just didn't have the foot speed to keep up with Reinhardt and you want your goalie to help you in that situation it was an overall mess of off of a face off draw everybody didn't know what they were doing and it was a disaster all night though Jesse I'd say there's I think we've gone through like enough examples to know that that's how they played all night you know what I don't understand I don't understand how the Leafs defense could get the puck in their own zone

Starting point is 00:36:05 and have nobody to pass it to. I don't understand how the Panthers would pin them and pin them and pin them. And the Leafs wingers just don't know where to be. Do I need to be down low helping out? Do I need to be up high covering the point? They just seem to not, again, know what to do, where to be, trust in the training that got them there.

Starting point is 00:36:25 No. Well, you know what that is, though. I don't. Fan pressure. Matty, if you want to bring up the goal visualizer there, this is the Reinhardt goal. It comes directly off a face-off draw. No, Jesse, we can't use the goal visualizer. Why not?

Starting point is 00:36:41 It's so biased. All it does is it shows what happens on the ice. There's 20,000... Fans? ...ne'er-do-wells who are trying to make the team that they paid $1,000 to come see lose. They're trying to make them lose, yeah. So on the goal here, if you guys want to see this one,

Starting point is 00:37:05 what a bunch of do i want to see it are you asking me if i want to see this yes jesse do you think i want to see this are you i'm watching you locked in i'm watching all right so face off draws one and you see reinhardt just go get this puck and nobody's covering tanf's trying with all his might but he can't keep up because he loses his assignment there aren't enough bodies in front to block the puck matthews comes in very late to try and help and joseph wall can't make a save it's bad all around from the Leafs and this was all their play all night

Starting point is 00:37:37 so I wish the goal visualized we didn't get the last goal visualized can you show me the Marchand goal this is actually an impressive empty netter if I'm not going to lie after you show this one can you show all of the goals three more times

Starting point is 00:37:53 oh yeah oh there's Marchand Marchand shoots it from the other end you know why hey you know what's crazy about where here actually i do want to show something off yeah go to the go go to okay so there's a board battle here there's yarn croak right yeah okay patch ready high uh mcbay low there are four leafs down there four and all of reckman larson is just getting on the ice but where is brad he's high covering the defenseman who also had a rough night jake mccabe brad marchand is in position to read this play you know why because he's high because

Starting point is 00:38:29 as a winger you're supposed to stay high you're supposed to if the other winger's deep you stay high grab it from their defense he does it perfectly i don't this is something that they taught us in house league and the leafs don't do that and they didn't they didn't do it last night well you didn't have fans booing you did it again you're right you're right a couple other games so so i would have showed up to harron park arena and booed you if i do i think i think steve wants talk about the fans no i so now let's keep going let's keep going so now the game's over yeah and you see what no the reason i keep bringing that up is i think there's so much depth and nuance to what happened last night and what has happened over the last few years

Starting point is 00:39:13 oh yeah and this morning by people who make six and seven digits it's being blamed on the fans you are lame dorks we're not getting into how the fuck you stink let me just stink i want to play this clip because i want to get into the post game stuff right i want to hear what people had to say and to be honest with you i'm just not interested in i just sent it to you just sorry i'm just not interested in what the panthers have to say i understand that we have to talk about it but i don't care what paul maurice has to say i don't care what brad has to say i don't care what matthew kuchuk is loving this he's loving going on chiclets this morning he's loving this he's digging the knife and he should he should it's the first time we talked about him all serious oh he was

Starting point is 00:39:58 invisible but he's man like a lot of people are gonna be like man they forced them to seven the panthers are broken there's so many players on their team who are playing sub 75 and kuchuk is one of them yeah but they have other guys they exactly yeah exactly leaves do not but like i don't think forsling's 100 i don't think barkov's 100 like matthews ate his lunch i really think so kachuk is probably sub 50 he couldn't move and that's why bill zito's like i'm gonna go get brad marshand yep and and uh seth jones and they had other guys but like i'm sorry you can't beat the panthers now you're not beating them i don't know if anybody can beat the panthers uh they're i could see i don't know carolina might give them trouble whoever they play in the west

Starting point is 00:40:53 is going to give them trouble they might win the cup again it's definitely possible they're in the final four austin matthew but no no sorry as busted up as the panthers were don't tell me it was close because it was seven they lost by five goals it came down to one game it's a one game series you lost by five goals you weren't close matthews and the worst quote of his career oh i mean um you know first period i thought they came out a little bit hungrier than us i thought we you know last half of that period we got our game going and then um i don't know i don't know how it really got away from us i think uh you know just not uh not on the same page in different areas of the game pause there not on the same page that's a precursor that's not you know what

Starting point is 00:41:44 i respect about this press conference from austin is he finally doesn't give a shit and this isn't even that crazy but he finally is saying what we've all been seeing it's and he's the one guy besides berube the one guy who is being honest i don't think this is the worst press conference of his career i think it's one of his best and i and i respect what he said because he said it honestly which is something we cannot ever get i appreciate to a degree what he said there there's a quote coming up where i'm just like austin go ahead and press play not really are you tired of doing this uh does that phone look familiar that's that's my phone oh is that jesse blake You should have just Jesse Blake, SDPN.

Starting point is 00:42:32 Pull up my phone. Was that you who asked, are you tired of doing this? There you go. That's my phone there. You didn't ask that question, did you? No. Are you tired of doing this? No, that was Ken Campbell.

Starting point is 00:42:40 Oh, Kenny. Jesus. Kenny. Ken. Ken. That is such a Ken question. No, Ken walks into the scrum and is like, all right, guys, I got this. Ken is the king of, and I say this as a compliment.

Starting point is 00:42:52 Ken sees this. He's not going to be mad at me for saying that. He's like, here's, I'm going to pull the pin on the grenade, throw it, and walk away. Here we go. Ken is 5'5", a fuckless attitude. 5'5"? What are you doing, spotting him three inches? He walks in.

Starting point is 00:43:09 His name should be Fuckless Campbell. Change his name legally. He just walks in. You're so right. He's literally just throwing a Molotov cocktail into the... No wonder Matthew said what he said. Now I have the full context. ken campbell ken makes a point in the press box to sit down for the american national anthem and

Starting point is 00:43:34 make sure everybody can see him sitting down because he's pissed he doesn't give a shit man i'm telling you everybody's gonna see me sit for the american he's great ball energy he i've i've heard several times like before he sends a tweet he just like nudges someone next to him he goes watch this he loves your angry yeah so yeah he uh threw this grenade in there hilarious that's what we got from austin page in different areas of the game can you describe the disappointment you must be feeling not really are you tired of doing this uh yeah i think we all are i mean i think there's 31 teams that go home very disappointed and obviously we're one of them So it's not a great feeling.

Starting point is 00:44:18 You can understand the frustration with the fans, though. There's some throwing jerseys on the ice. Greg Ross. There's a lot of booing in this game again tonight. I mean, what's your message to the fans who have had to deal with this year after year after year with this team? Yeah, it's tough to kind of gather, you know, thoughts on all that so quickly after the game.

Starting point is 00:44:39 I mean, I think, you know, you look back on training camp, just all the work that you put in to get yourself to this point, And, you know, it's very, very frustrating, obviously, for us as well as them included. So, you know, it's tough to kind of gather your thoughts on that right away. What were your thoughts on the group coming into this one? I felt like we were ready to play. I felt like we were, you know, in a good mindset. Like I said, I thought the first, you know, 10 minutes we didn't, you know, they came out strong.

Starting point is 00:45:13 I mean, the next 10 minutes, I thought we controlled play, you know, and then I just thought we had too many passengers throughout the rest of the game and just weren't on the same page. And, you know, they get a couple of goals and momentum like that, and then you're chasing the game. And it's hard to hard to get it back, you know, when you're down three against a good team that plays sound defensively like them. OK, let's leave it there. So the quote is the passenger's quote. The quote is, there's too many passengers. And people were using this, especially out of town media. They love this. And I don't wish I don't disagree.

Starting point is 00:45:51 Hang on. I don't I don't blame them. I'm sure this is the most satisfying thing. It's bank bank material. Yes. And they're doing it publicly. What I love about what Matthew said there was that it was honest. There were too many passengers.

Starting point is 00:46:08 And people were like, well, he had two shots. I said, he was a passenger. and you know what like you could argue the whole damn team was i i listen matthews is not going to escape criticism we'll get to singular effort get passengers when four guys take up half the cap well exactly and so i think we've been saying this for years so i think that when we look at that quote what i respect about it is he said what everyone is thinking if you're going to be upset with him for performance i get it but at least finally along with berube and we'll get to that finally somebody didn't look the camera dead in the face and said actually cody cc's numbers were

Starting point is 00:46:46 great i can't stand that with this organization where it is we are just we're going to deny you what you saw with your eyes we're going to deny you what you see on on paper in terms of stats actually you're dumb and we're smart austin said there's too many passengers he's the captain he is going to be at the end of next season barring some injury he's going to be the leading score in leaf's history all time i love love that he was honest i love that he said that i can't stand that people are mad at him for a quote like this if you're out of town media and you're jerking off to this fine but but from inside inside as a leaf fan which i am yeah i want some honesty that's what's been making me feel so crazy over the last nine years what are you i'm a leaf fan

Starting point is 00:47:39 oh bad guy yeah exactly automatically so let's go the reason they lost i in fact jesse i am and you know also worse than other fans yes on principle because you know nobody nobody has a bigger fan group than only the toronto maple leafs now let's talk about craig berube no no here wait uh i want to stick on the matthews thing oh okay sorry go ahead so i think back to a really annoying Instagram post from Zdeno Chara and it's only annoying because it's Zdeno Chara and he's so great he's so great and he rides his bike

Starting point is 00:48:12 looking like he's still doing marathons he's annoying so he posts this on Instagram and it's just him pointing at the camera and it's basically when you point a finger at someone you're pointing three back at yourself

Starting point is 00:48:27 and I always put my hand like this and go Zdeno that's not true but when he points like this that's what my mother used to say to me hey yeah oh yeah and i just what do you think about that style of leadership versus what matthews did because okay there's too many passengers is he talking about who's he talking about he's obviously talking about someone i think he's i think where you're what what people are we're missing from that quote was him doing what Chris Tanev did saying I take responsibility for that to my part in that and I don't expect after a devastating game and those guys coming out Tavares looked

Starting point is 00:49:10 heartbroken oh you know I think those guys were devastated and so for him to speak absolutely 100 perfect at a press conference I'm giving him a pass on that I do think he meant himself in that too and I like I don't think you watch you listen to the tone right if you if you read that quote you're like hey f that guy what the hell is the tone is much better than you listen to that tone you know what he means yes right you're it's inferred and so honestly i honestly think like a lot of the reaction of that just people getting their yuck yucks in oh i think it was just people he says there's a lot of passengers everybody wants to get their yuck yuck things yeah including yourself it's the same thing with the mitch marner yelling at the bench part where yeah in the middle

Starting point is 00:49:48 of the second where you see him yelling on the broadcast wake the fuck up i think yes and everybody wants to get in their jokes about hey just yell that to the mirror like it's we're whenever at least things happens you're gonna get that react yes agreed and and i and i i totally understand that but from within maple leaf's fandom and i'm speaking directly to you uh that's what we need we need somebody honest and is he going to be perfectly spoken every time he steps in front of a mic no but i love that now can we do are you guys good on that or do we move to because i think berube also nails it and i'm grateful for that because sheldon keith was not allowed to nail it sheldon keith was not allowed to step up and said what you say what he really

Starting point is 00:50:32 thinks and i think part of that's good because sheldon was so emotional that if you heard what sheldon really thought on a game-to-game basis i think the team would implode within you know a couple of weeks sheldon was too angry yes yes craig is craig was as pissed as i've ever seen him on the bench after that third goal went in in the in the second period it was like holy fuck guys get it together yeah and here he is after the game and i think it speaks to where we're going to go with the show next the past playoff series with this team but you're aware of them obviously when you took this job how much of that baggage with the guys that have been here a while play a part in a moment like tonight where it looks like the moment's too big for them

Starting point is 00:51:13 well i look at you know i don't think the moment's too big for him you know i think it's we went to ottawa and won game six and won a series we went into florida and won game six to make it a game seven you know so the moment's not too big it for me it's all it's all between years it's a mindset um these guys are capable of doing it um you just got to execute it and we didn't execute it we didn't execute it in game five we didn't execute it in game seven you know i don't have an answer for that why but that's that's the bottom line thanks oh wow that's that's a very don't ask me no more bullshit uh get up no it was the last question

Starting point is 00:52:00 yeah but he got up pretty quick berube it made it seem funnier yeah it was there was pierre lebron he had the last question they're like last question that was beer yeah that's a great question yeah berube nailed it it his mindset and what's been amazing over the last nine years is we've been fed that it isn't we've been told that it isn't and i think chris johnston you guys heard of him no new show out today i've heard he's so good oh yeah they recorded this morning new show out today i can't wait um chris johnston said i don't think that those guys in that room could sit there and believe that the other guys in that room along with themselves could get it done that was i'm paraphrasing but that's sort of what he said in the in the tsn sort of

Starting point is 00:52:44 sports center hit for this morning and i just as a leaf fan again finally somebody says it finally we're getting there it it makes me it triggers something in me um and it's difficult to remember because it was right before covid but the lightning the 2019 tampa bay lightning i remember we did a segment and you guys were a little iffy on this take and you guys were correct in 2018 the lightning have a three games to two lead over the capitals in the eastern conference final the last goal they scored in that series was in game five holtby shuts them out in game six and seven tough tough way to lose a series what happens the next year they take it out on the whole rest of the league they win 62 out of 80 games to win the president's trophy set a record

Starting point is 00:53:44 swept not just swept they were up three nothing in game one of that series blew it and blew the rest of the series kucherov takes his ball and goes home cries about or he was not cries about was angry about like certain contracts and players not showing up and he's talking to the russian media and i believe he was talking about alex colorn and i remember the take being if you're a member of the tampa bay lightning because they were talking about the potential moves they might make i was like if you're in that locker room how do you look to your left how do you look to your right how do you look across from you and think yes this is the group that we get it done with and what happens the world stops and they don't they win a cup in 2020 they win a cup in 2021

Starting point is 00:54:35 they won two cups in like 10 months and they went to a third stanley cup final in a row in 2022 they had those traumatic losses dude keenan thompson got on stage and goofed on the lightning for like an hour at the nhl awards to their face that's how humiliating they were they were the punchline how did they respond not like meek little lambs that's for sure they responded quicker they won the damn cup they went to three straight finals the leafs are not the only team that bad things happen to they just never rise to the occasion when it matters most and but but what i think too is that they never make anything uncomfortable for people what what matthew said was uncomfortable what berube said is if you're a manager imagine you're you're you're keith pelly

Starting point is 00:55:33 this morning keith pelly being the head of maple leaf sports oh no i'm gonna have a job no matter what if my if my if my head coach if my captain is saying too many passengers and my head coach is saying it's a mindset because he the one thing berube did say in that press conference and i think this is 100 true and leaf fans might not like to hear this these guys do care this wasn't a lack of care this is a lack of execution and it's a mental block yeah and that's what it comes down to in these games when i look at how this press conference those two guys played out i look at this as a bit of a page turner or turned excuse me the chapter is over they all know it and that is going to be the thing that they're going to have to change you know what this reminds me of

Starting point is 00:56:22 is uh it was either after the 2003 or 2002 loss in the playoffs do you remember there was a big story about all the leafs after getting eliminated um not going to a team dinner they got into like little clicks and all went out to different places and that was a big story and all the locker rooms fractured and all that this kind of reminds me of that because that was a hmm this iteration of the team is probably over moment i mean this iteration of the team is clearly two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer that's why every step and dollar raised matters on september 19th join thousands in toronto for the princess margaret cancer foundation walk challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life

Starting point is 00:57:12 saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer register today at pmcfwalk.ca also uh john devar spoke to the media he said emphatically he wants to be a leaf next year like immediately yep he said he wants more more shots at it uh he had a great season morgan riley obviously was very thoughtful after the game he's always i think his quotes aren't great uh in media circles but i thought he was very thoughtful he has an unfortunate amount of practice yeah he sure does and that's that's interesting you brought up the practice thing because i thought he had a really good quote because steve simmons asked him he's like do you hate coming here every season and doing this dance again and giving us these quotes

Starting point is 00:57:59 and morgan's like i don't care about coming here and doing this it was very honest of him he's like this isn't anything that bothers me and i'm sorry he said i'm sorry if i repeat myself or if i say the same things over and over again but i don't care about this what i care about is the fact that we lose every scene no no no no no no that's not what the panthers said that's not what chuck and maurice and marshan weirdly said a lot often into a mic so who are you gonna trust the guys who just beat them six one and said actually they weren't very bad or morgan riley i thought i thought it was really it was really honest of him and i thought he was honest during his whole press conference just saying like the losing and being on the ice and not advancing and all of that is

Starting point is 00:58:45 really hard on him and who cares that he has to come and do a scrum after these games he just hates losing here sorry i missed your call just recording a podcast that's um you know the leafs got eliminated last night when michael buble uh calls you and you miss it oh i didn't know what you were doing freaking uh you know my phone is star studded once a year there you go once a year Uh, let's, I have one, uh, this, uh, this is Paul Maurice talking about, uh, chastising the media, uh, for how we're going to speak about the Leafs after losing six to one. Listen to me on this, but I would caution you from applying or assigning an, uh, you guys are going to do it anyway.

Starting point is 00:59:40 Those games are so tight. the emotion the build-up to the games right like when we score the first goal we own the first 10 minutes of the first period they own the second that 10 minutes that's it they're both teams we all agree if you flip it you'd say oh they came out right we came out right they found the answer to come back at us okay then what's the truth right we scored a goal and then we got those two and it's just a puck to the net it's not so much closer than you think but you're going to kill these guys and they don't deserve it that was that's seven games and we played well i didn't like our first period game one we played well in the two losses

Starting point is 01:00:23 none of you are going to listen to me like paul you beat them i i hate this bashful aw shucks bullshit it's it's i i don't want to call it bad faith like i don't think he's a liar the two games you're talking about like he said this like three four days ago right so it falls flat no no they played great when you beat them 6-1 at home in game five and game seven comes around the same thing happens and you're like oh you guys are gonna I killed him, and it's unfair. Oh, shut up. We punched Anthony Stallers in the head.

Starting point is 01:01:04 It was by accident. He's our friend. We beat them. We outscored them 12-2 on home ice in games five and seven. You know what? It was a lot closer than you think. Oh, I didn't like our first period in game one. Oh, we get it.

Starting point is 01:01:18 You're smart. Like, holy shit, Paul. This is the patronizing part that I can't stand. What do you get? What do you get? A second ring for being the best on the mic, too? Go and win a cup. Jesus.

Starting point is 01:01:28 The patronizing part is that Paul Maurice stepped up in front of that microphone and said, sorry, but you guys are dumb and we're smart. And I hate to throw that because Paul Maurice is an extraordinarily smart guy. That's why he said it. I know he doesn't believe it. I know he's foolish. He also has no idea what he's talking about. Like, I know he was the Leafs coach. You don't know what pressure is.

Starting point is 01:01:53 Like, the pressure here, he has no idea. the teams you coached here, Paul were not close to being close. Your goalie sucked. Yeah. If you had some goaltending, you would have. And by the way, you didn't have any problem killing them. I remember him coming on sports net and being like, we had no shot with those guys in net. You didn't have any problem killing them then. Cause it, cause it served you. It made you look good, Paul. And this makes you look good. Oh, good guy.

Starting point is 01:02:19 Paul getting in front of the media and talking about the team that got out, scored 12-2 on home ice and they're good and you guys are bullies. Fuck off. You're such a liar. Ugh. I do find it...

Starting point is 01:02:32 Nauseating. I do think it's interesting that Thomas Drance tweeted this morning. He was talking about the Kachuk appearance on Spittin' Chickless, but he did tweet this morning.

Starting point is 01:02:40 He's like, these are not media comments about the actual game. These are recruitment videos. Yeah, they don't want Sam Bennett to leave. They don't want Sam Bennett to leave.

Starting point is 01:02:48 They might want to get Mitch Marner. Yeah, why not? go out and get them so like like give it a shot and and matthew kachuk said today you know you know what i love is is when a multi-millionaire on a chaise long made out of bent poor people who pays zero state income tax is like you know what we're just chill here and uh you guys aren't and that's that's why i wish you guys wouldn't care so much yeah i wish you wouldn't care so much is that that that's why you do all the documentaries there there matthew and that

Starting point is 01:03:22 that's why you do all the magazine covers and everything i haven't even that's why you do the chicklets interview is because you want less attention you're prince harry and megan markle you know that right that we want privacy we want privacy no you don't what no other league operates this way and listen when the players tell you toronto hard place where people don't care easy they mean it and i think they're right but you have to understand this is the only professional sports league this applies to it's it is anti-professional sports and if you genuinely believe this i don't believe you're pro sport i think you're pro hockey this doesn't apply to the nba it doesn't apply to the nfl it doesn't apply to the mlb it doesn't apply to european south

Starting point is 01:04:09 american friggin anywhere soccer other than the mls maybe maybe and and who who wins who wins like who is routinely done well like the galaxy and and like messy has he'll play and come off the field and fans leave you know what i mean generally speaking fandom and fanfare is what sponsors and and and pays for everything oh when you're not begging for taxpayer dollars um for a new arena taxpayer dollars by the way that you've paid zero dollars towards because it doesn't come out of your paycheck in florida right i don't know how the hell they pay for anything right attention and fandom is

Starting point is 01:05:06 why they lost. It makes me sick. It makes me sick. Can I give the Matthew Kachuk quotes though? Not really. I don't give a fuck. But we still have to. Go for it. What does this rat have to say after having no impact on a seven game series? He said if you're going

Starting point is 01:05:22 to play tentative, this is what he said last night, you probably don't belong in these games. And that is a shot at all the Toronto Maple Leafs because they played tentative and he's right. And then this morning tentative false here he doesn't want to get hit and then this morning he said if their team was not in toronto dealing with all this crazy circus stuff outside of it they'd be an unbelievable team why'd you lose in the four nation face off like so he said what so he said both things yeah and

Starting point is 01:05:48 i think what's happening here and you saw marshan you know like he was saying that you know he grew up a leaf fan and that you know uh he told you know bissonette on the tnt broadcast well i just believed yeah and this is a troll job i already knew marshan was a leaf fan because he mentioned that the last time he beat them fuck i i think this is where i get frustrated because people are going to fall for this people are going to fall for this uh people fall for worse things it's all right and i look at here let me give you here's a devastating stat are you ready for a devastating stat hit me hold on Leafs outscored 12-2 at home in the final three games in what other market league whatever with fans who care is that going to be okay Brad Marchand career game

Starting point is 01:06:37 seven points versus the Leafs five Matthews and Marner career combined game seven points with the Leafs five that's from Sportsnet stats the Leafs move heaven and earth to keep them together matthews had a goal in this series marner had a goal in this series marner had two shots in the final five games tavaris had no points outside of the one game he had two goals zero points zero points do you got willie in there do you want to do well i got him don't worry adam i prepared it on my phone on the train on the way in here because Matthews and Marner and Tavares like losing their production hurt losing Willie's production is what killed them it's devastating it's devastating because like he got them through the Ottawa

Starting point is 01:07:27 series like I'm looking at game one goal and an assist game two assist game three assist game four uh two assists game five no points minus three no one looked good that night and then in the deciding game two goals one assist plus one crazy legitimately unreal over the course of the series against ottawa game one against florida two goals one assist they win one goal they win two assists but they lose game three a game where they had a two nothing lead and a three one lead that is the one that got away and then and that was the last point he had no points minus one no points minus one no points no points minus one losing William Nylander's production was the beginning middle and end of this series and what will slam the

Starting point is 01:08:22 door shut on this chapter is other teams who just beat the Leafs making excuses for the Leafs it's like aren't you humiliated isn't that it's quite embarrassing I don't want sorry excuse me did is david going out and saying you know goliath he was quite the guy after i killed him man like are you kidding me here i just i look at people like well you know the better team one well aren't you the smartest person on fucking planet earth all the better team one no shit but it's also fair to say these other things toronto's top four guys expected goals five on five we're in at about 50 all sure throughout the entire series which isn't good enough by the way uh like exactly it's not good enough it's oh well it's you know it's even they're not losing the minute okay but they're

Starting point is 01:09:14 not winning them now you're leaving it up to lot and lorenz yarn crow who by the way got caved five on five expected goals and also probably had their two best chances and you're leaving it up to uh max i need to be sheltered domi and patch already bobby i haven't scored in these playoffs mcmahon and elderly max patch ready who has like like so many years past there's performances where you go damn you got that performance out of this guy and you lost you got nearly a point a game at a max patch ready you lost just like you did with kerfoot in 2021 spezza at at 49 years old had three goals against the Habs. Three! Yep.

Starting point is 01:09:59 Yep. Holy shit! People forget, don't they? Oh my god! Max Pacioretty had 13 points this regular season in 37 games. He had 8 and 11 in the postseason. Legitimately hilarious. And I want to say this because, again... His

Starting point is 01:10:15 Leaf picture on MapleLeafs.com is still him with the Capitals. I want to say this again. Oh my god! I want to say this again. Say it again. But when it comes to, people go, well, they didn't, the Leafs, they marginally won their minutes with the top four guys. The top four guys take up over 50% of the cap.

Starting point is 01:10:36 How many times do we need to say that? Nathan McKinnon marginally won his minutes. Stop. Stop. I am looking, I am looking to these players to not just marginally win their minutes. And by the way, I give Tavares a bit of an excuse. He's in the last year of a seven-year deal. Guy's 34.

Starting point is 01:10:52 The contract year. Yeah, but it's still your second line center. still your second he wasn't good enough now let's go through this because there are certain you know we talked about the talked about the game talked about the post-game comments we need to talk about the specifics now by the way can i just weigh in on brad marsh and oh please by the way no points in his final four games as well that whole line was neutralized oh you did so yeah the the his his little bit post-game where he's talking about the fans and and how hard it is and the pressure and and blaming them it truly felt in the moment there in in the room a little

Starting point is 01:11:27 surreal because you never hear somebody that honest and and brad marchand like he he is a master at these post games and he talked about how in his career um he didn't realize the moments that he wanted to savor and it was it was great insight because he talked about that and how he's getting close to retirement and how this game seven here in the second round wasn't pressure to him because he's been in actual game sevens that have actually mattered he's played in the game seven of the stanley cup final that he lost and he was like a rookie when that happened well the blues won when he lost in game seven the stanley cup final and he had like kind of a big part in it and and he's like i'm getting to the end of this thing and this career flew by so

Starting point is 01:12:16 quickly and i sit here and and i played my heart out in this game because i know that like there's better games to win here dude he got better as when the series began i was like oh man brad got old they and holy shit like nope he hasn't lost a step he hasn't lost a single thing they won their seventh game of the playoffs that's only halfway to a stanley cup the leafs it's less no the uh the the florida panthers sorry i said i said i said seventh because game seven they won their eighth game of the playoffs they're halfway there that's halfway to stanley cup that's not that's 50 like the job is only half done and brad marsh and had that perspective in that moment and he used that perspective to troll leaf fans and whether it's trolling whether he's trolling

Starting point is 01:13:09 and he's good at it and we got to give him that it's great you can you can call it trolling or you can call it just hockey players siding with hockey players the smirk he gave that fan on his way off the ice after game five he knows what he's doing come on and he's relishing it and i'm not calling him a bad guy for doing it i'm just calling him for what and he talked about that moment and he said i love those moments i i love interacting with the fans because i can take it and i like to dish it out and if you can't take it and you can't dish it out then you can't have that back and forth so he knows how to take the heat he knows how to deliver it out and he used that all of his knowledge to spin the narrative that's weird his teammate thinks that that's like

Starting point is 01:13:49 what makes you lose so i don't know they should have like a little talk about that that matthew yeah yeah i think he knows what to say too very strange i think that's brilliant insight no but like he he used that to spin it to a narrative to support the guys at the other end of the ice like he's in this moment and all of the stuff he's been saying he's just supporting other hockey players that he had to defeat on fortunately for him he got to go up against the Leafs because they don't have it and he got to beat them but like he didn't want to dump on the Leafs in that moment and the easiest narrative for him with all of his knowledge about the game and the media and the fans was to spin it on to the fans so don't believe Brad Marchand please like he's not

Starting point is 01:14:30 operating in your best interest or in defense of the Leafs he's in defense of his hockey brethren and he's using that to you know spin it a narrative that looks good for the Panthers man and it's in his best genuinely in his best interest

Starting point is 01:14:46 to keep the Leafs looking like this like we can go out and defeat them yes he's the first ever player to have five game seven victories against a single franchise that one's that of course and he He ties the all-time lead for Game 7 victories. There's six guys who have won eight Game 7s,

Starting point is 01:15:06 and now Brad Marchand becomes the seventh player ever to win seven Game 7s. That's pretty cool. It's all against the Leafs. Sorry, eight Game 7s. That's spamming. I also believe the Leafs are... Brad Marchand's a Leafs merchant.

Starting point is 01:15:19 Yeah, it's a bit of an easy code on him. Like infinite money. It's like you're playing the Sims and you play infinite money. Did you want to play the Brad Marchand clip? No, I'm not fucking interested No, I'm not fucking interested What about the people who haven't heard it Go for it, play it

Starting point is 01:15:37 For the sake of news in our program Here, let me have a conversation When you win a cup and you play in some of the games That this team played in last year These are not high pressure games When you're playing for an actual cup And you give up a three game lead And then you're in game seven

Starting point is 01:15:52 That's a high pressure game So in game seven, second round yeah it's a high pressure game but it's not compared to some other games the guys have played so when you actually look at that and then when you see the pressure that toronto faces and and you know everyone's talking about whatever the 20 30 your build-up i don't even know what it is but you see the fans and the way they're talked like they just beat the pressure into this team and and it's it's got to be tough on those guys to to walk to the rink every day and not feel that because i mean you see the way the fans treat them at the end like

Starting point is 01:16:24 how do you not feel that every single day um you know and when you go through big games like you realize which are actually big games and which are just you know big moments yeah and we can we can move on because we did like a 10 minute preamble before that i just wanted to actually get the clip he said it right off the top there these are not high pressure games yeah yeah he just fucking said it to you no but then so everything they say afterwards nothing fine maurice could shock all of it it's bullshit no no no what he's saying is these aren't high pressure games and the fans make it high pressure games which is wildly unfair um then then you know what they pay your salary then leave then leave so i think that's a perfect

Starting point is 01:17:13 segue into like so marner's contract's up yeah shanee's contract's up he can leave As far as his contract, Jeff. So let's go for the ramifications of the game for each player. We'll start with the least interesting, which is William Nylander. He'll be back next year. He signed a long-term deal. He loves it in Toronto. He had amazing efforts in the first round.

Starting point is 01:17:33 Some good stuff in the second round. He was horrific in Game 5 and horrific again in Game 7. Completely invisible. Terrible. He just wasn't a factor. And also, yeah, not a factor and not... I know when William Nylander's dialed and I know when he's not. I've watched a lot of William Nylander hockey.

Starting point is 01:17:47 so have you guys so is everybody listening we know what he looks like when he's going to take a game over and we know what he looks like when he just doesn't have it and i don't know if it's i think some people have unfairly coaches specifically have unfairly labeled it as he doesn't give a shit i think the point is he does give a shit but i think sometimes he just doesn't have it you said it earlier they all care they all like brube brube said it you're referencing it like they all care so that's where i think the brube quote comes into play here is I don't understand what they lose when they care, but their body can't then just do the thing that they've already done and

Starting point is 01:18:26 shown whatever that mental gap they have. I don't know if the Leafs this off season need to take every dollar they made through these playoff games that they had and just invest in sports psychologists for the entire room. I think so because it's a hundred percent of mindset white noise machines. I don't know. like you've made enough money like you could you could probably like look at the schedule when it comes out in july set aside the important games don't let fans in okay don't let them in i think

Starting point is 01:19:00 no it's it's your cross the bear it's your burden and you have the power just say no to the money just say no willie willie in in game seven and and like i don't think he had a really good game six either even though like they handled things you didn't have a good games four through seven yeah it wasn't it wasn't great but like i don't think it's because he doesn't care about performing and winning these games i don't know where it comes from with any of the players where they all obviously care a lot but they can't execute on what they know austin matthews second most boring he'll be back next year unless he requested a trade or something like that and the leaps could still say no uh it's it's a uh those two guys seem to be the guys that the Leafs are going to build

Starting point is 01:19:47 around going forward the other two guys on Austin Matthews I think there's a conversation to be had at some point in in this tenure as a Toronto Maple Leaf that is still premature to give him the captaincy I would love to know who he was talking about when he talks about passengers because my first thought was Willie hmm interesting I'd love to know who he was talking about well I think most of the team the stats bear out most of the team yeah yeah that's that's that's gonna get clipped by those really shitty aggregator sites like i'm saying it's matthews talking about willie i don't know who the player is but my first thought i think it's most of the team and i'm sure he meant he means himself too yeah if you again we could go back to play the clip again

Starting point is 01:20:29 i think he inferred basically everybody i would have liked him to win in one of these games before getting that c from tavaris okay or i would like tavaris to win in one of these games before getting I would have liked them to not have a captain like they they don't execute in the moments when you need players to perform at their highest level and I've never seen an organization reward people for doing nothing how about this one how about this one how about no no not no letters how about this one uh we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings so let's have Matthews and Marner split the assistant captaincy for four years yeah that's the thing we wouldn't want to make anyone uncomfortable now would we yeah this is the issue i have this is a team babcock and steve

Starting point is 01:21:12 reminded me of this on the on the train in babcock said we want to make it a safe place to play meaning you want players to come come here and feel protected from the fans who oh man they like it and we don't want big bullies like mark masters and chris johnson coming to the game and making these guys feel uncomfortable or lest they be held accountable to the actions on the ice hey a little ken campbell's there ken yo ken campbell is there and you know steve simmons makes his obligatory one-time appearance uh you know to ask a snide question or two and steve you know what you're doing you know what you're doing it's okay listen you you've made millions i'm sure you've made millions of dollars over your career steve's got an angle and that's his angle not you other

Starting point is 01:21:53 steve i'm looking at me up to the millions of dollars i was like wait what i'm sure he has made millions yeah so here's the here's the the part where it gets interesting boys two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer that's why every step and dollar raised matters on september 19th join thousands in toronto for the princess margaret cancer foundation walk challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. When WestJet first took flight in 1996, the vibes were a bit different. People thought denim on denim was peak fashion,

Starting point is 01:22:43 inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when WestJet welcomes you on board here's to west jetting since 96 travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years i'll go with the third one and this is more interesting it's john tavares as i told you john tavares had two goals in the series nothing else they happened in the same game there are seven games in the series this is a player who reportedly is asking between seven and seven and a half million dollars no the leafs are not comfortable with anything more than about five and that is those are the reports that are out there that is the scuttlebutt and i'm wondering

Starting point is 01:23:29 i'm looking in this and i'm wondering are they even comfortable with five and it's not because john can't go out and put a put together another great regular season where he's almost a point of game sure but i am looking at this and going okay it's not that these four players singularly and And the younger guys, especially, you know, Matthews, Marner, Nylander, are not singularly unbelievable talents. But what do we always go back to? It's the mix of people. It's the mix. So if Marner is truly walking, and we'll get to him in a second, if he's truly walking, the mix is still largely the same if you bring 75% of it back.

Starting point is 01:24:06 Yeah, that's pretty fair. I'm like, you can just move on from John Tavares. Yeah, and he wants to be here. One of the rare guys that does. If he would, for me, he's a perfect candidate for a deferred salary sort of contract. If he would take something, I'm talking outrageously cheap. I think five is outrageously cheap. Like for what he brings.

Starting point is 01:24:27 What's he bringing you? What role is he on this team? That's what you got to look at. If he's third line center and you've got your second line center lined up, it's going to happen. Then you cannot go into next season with John Tavares as your second line center. You can't go into next season with Domi, Kampf, or Lawton as your third line setter. There's not enough change there.

Starting point is 01:24:50 Let's list the centers in the series. Barkov, Matthews, Lindell, Tavares, Bennett. Okay, so where does Tavares fit in the pecking order there, and why is it fifth? Even at $5 million, that's not enough change to the roster. It's still Matthews and then Tavares, and we've seen that not work. I'd like to see some change here

Starting point is 01:25:15 Do something My hesitation there is I don't know about this Free agency class If he signs something cheap I'm open to it You can't have him at second line center I think that's fair

Starting point is 01:25:30 Or it's like a committee Middle six sort of thing But anything is better than what you have Because what you have you know doesn't work Yes Even if you're not a fan of the free agency pool i don't i don't think that's an excuse no like even if he's the best free agent that gets to the market on july 1st he's the best center option out there he shouldn't be your center

Starting point is 01:25:54 because he can't play with the rest of the roster and now there's marner it's the same thing they fired kyle dubas five weeks before marner's full no move kicked in and then after it kicked in these idiots these idiots said hey what if you waved and mitch i can't even be mad at him goes no then they waited a while and then they asked him again and guess what he said no you got that a month before his wife's due to give birth they're like hey you want to go to carolina you want to uproot your fucking life stupid yeah no like the leafs lost the 2024 stanley cup playoffs and the 2025 stanley cup playoffs in 2023 in june 2023 and i said it at

Starting point is 01:26:56 the damn time i didn't say specifically oh they're gonna lose next year in the year after but like you're going to you're committing to this you're committing to seeing it through and i i don't like that the conversation's getting away from the truth online is oh man fans who think marner walking is good they're stupid that it's not up to the fans a lot of fans i think most fans when that very obvious like dubious was subtle as an axe that contract was designed for hey we're gonna get to this point and if we haven't accomplished anything by this point i'm trading this person he had a parachute he yes dubious smartly put a parachute on his back when he jumped out of the plane and shanahan cut the thing yes and then strapped it to brad and he and

Starting point is 01:27:59 he told brad you don't have control of your parachute i control it hi brad you have five weeks uh to figure shit out here and get everyone's number and also you're not allowed on the draft floor for the first round and like it's herculean that brad did as good a job as he has over the last year and a half i've liked the brad's job this year shanahan completely fucked him yeah like shanahan completely screwed this person who he hired shanahan should be unemployable well we'll get to that please let's not go there yet but go to marner 2023 was your last chance to get something for this person like we're uh some fans are gonna resent you oh man they could have had ranted in they were never getting ranted you idiots you idiots he had a no move clause

Starting point is 01:28:54 that you had years of warning was coming you let it click in and then you got mad at him for you tried to trade him multiple times what's the matter with you you had a moment to trade him you could have got the sun and the moon for him and you spit in the face of that opportunity and then resented him when he exercised the thing that you like you didn't take this person seriously you said mitch marner who him and his camp and his agent fought you tooth and nail in the media and in public and everywhere when you design that contract and and you were confused when he exercised the fruits of that negotiation you're genuinely stupid unserious people what they tried to trade him once they tried to trade him again no no he made it very clear

Starting point is 01:30:05 that I am going to use this thing it kicked in he used it and we all went oh now I think the Leafs are bad for him I think he's bad for the Leafs like I think the relationship got toxic and i think he should have been open to a trade i think but i'm not him all right i'm not him i'm not in his family i'm not in his camp he had this no move and honestly like as a husband as a dad i'm not up i'm not uprooting my life right now because you're fucking dumb and didn't trade me a year ago yeah my wife's seven eight months pregnant yeah mitch marner staying here isn't his fault mitch marner staying here is brendan shanahan's fault yes sorry i am going in circles beginning middle end this is shanahan's fault you're getting nothing for marner because of him

Starting point is 01:31:06 yes so that's the asset management stuff comes down to brendan shanahan doubling and we'll get to that but i think it bears repeating because mitch was getting booed every time he touched the puck and I do want to go back to I want I want to explain the Marner situation in a little bit more depth because I think it's been people are trying to boil this down to a tweet and you can't this is a lot of there's a lot of history here yeah and it starts with this this kid getting drafted who Mike Babcock didn't want and the story goes that Mark Hunter told him to sit the fuck down and drafted mitch marner and he comes in and babcock's real hard on him and the leafs say you can't get schedule a bonuses we don't give those away and then promptly give them to

Starting point is 01:31:52 austin matthews mitch marner was drafted fourth austin was drafted first they both probably could have had schedule a's honestly both negotiations were stupid if you remember because matthews wasn't even signed until august yes because he was like lou was like i'm fucking lou and like it's the first overall pick what are we all doing here and then and then everyone just trying to big dog everyone instead of marner's put on the fourth line because babs is trying to get on we all know list gate where he made a list babs made him make a list of all the players that he on the team that he didn't think were working hard enough and you know cadre and bozak were named and fucking mike babcock goes to the middle of the dressing room and goes this is what this player is saying about

Starting point is 01:32:32 you yeah what a horrible person fuck off forever mike babcock yes okay this is not mitch's fault not 20 year old mitch he came to 19 year old he came to the toronto maple leafs and was promptly fucked out of schedule a bonuses and then like literally tortured by his coach and then put on the fourth line and then at the worst time ever Mitch's contract comes up and the worst time ever because the Leafs had already signed Tavares to an absolutely monstrous deal they used Mitch in the video that they used to recruit John Tavares had they Mitch Marner's camp with a year to go said we'll do eight over eight and the Leafs said no we'll wait till after this season happens and remember the cap was lower and even eight over eight was a lot was a lot but it would have been

Starting point is 01:33:25 a great deal it would have been spectacular and so then he goes out and he scores 94 points and the guy he helped recruit and austin matthews did the work also gets his contract done over the course of that season and immediately after this is where it turns on mitch it well because his dumb ass of an agent so dumb ass so the second matthews contract gets signed his agents in the toronto star spouting off about how um that's it was a bad deal and blah blah blah so stupid and beyond beyond stupid and all the while mitch has a arm's length from his agent but let me tell you something oh stop let me tell you something your agent doesn't do anything unless you approve it and you know there is there that became the summer of way to go paul on online and by paul we mean

Starting point is 01:34:21 paul marner coincided with a popular meme and what happened was uh darren ferris through various members of the media was funneling things like well mitch could get as much as 14 million and from what you understand columbus offered 12 to 13 million for him on an rfa deal and he just didn't sign it because he didn't want to and then there was a story offer sheet and then there was the story that oh he's going to go play in Zurich and then the Zurich Lions are tweeting about it and then you know it was a whole bunch of bullshit right we get to the day before camp and the Leafs cave on every demand they give him a no move clause in the final two years not the final year the final two and they pay him about two and a half million dollars more a year than they wanted

Starting point is 01:35:07 to and then they say your number and then they say in front of the media we made the right call we think he's going to go with it and by the way had covet not happened maybe they did and the one piece of of context you're forgetting is the william nylander deal uh chris johnson wrote about it then when he did his partner breakdown that was the longest holdout of the salary cap era and the leafs are coming off of that negotiation and what he signed he signed with like five minutes left until the deadline exactly eligible so what did they do guys they caved to every knee lander demand yes so so they're coming off of that and mitch marner sat out the first day of training camp and they immediately acquiesced because they said they don't want that again

Starting point is 01:35:50 right in back-to-back seasons so then so then and let me just let me just say this because some of this is Mitch's team creating this some of this is fans reacting to this and going frankly doing terrible things because there is another side to this story all right Mitch and his family his dad specifically his agent specifically mishandled and bungled his PR over that negotiation that is a fact this was the most popular player on the team talking about the 2019 yes oh he was a care bear they people loved this person they would have died for this person and those guys got arrogant and thought you know what it doesn't matter what we do people are going to love this kid anyway and we're going to go get the maximal dollar and you could kind of see how

Starting point is 01:36:40 they thought that that would have worked except for Toronto Maple Leafs fans are largely blue collar and I know Toronto downtown there's the finance and all the lawyers and whatever Toronto Maple Leaf fans are not just 4-1-6. There's a lot of people who have never friggin' been here who think they know what Toronto is. This is a hard working, very

Starting point is 01:37:02 expensive place to live, Southern Ontario. People don't have a lot of extra cash, and these tickets are among the most expensive in the entire league. And I think it's important that we acknowledge and recognize that they bungled that. That they destroyed part of his reputation, and frankly, with some fans, it never recovered.

Starting point is 01:37:18 No. And and that resentment builds. So then. We have series like the Montreal series, we have series like the Tampa series in 2022, Boston series in 2019 and Columbus series, and I want you to understand from Mitch's perspective how things have gone, because I think this is important to. okay this is a guy who after one of those series had people dumping their garbage on his front lawn this is a guy finally doing this yes this is a guy who uh at his cottage had people throwing not just montreal canadians gear but garbage on his lawn there golf balls golf balls we also and flat out garbage like no no flat out garbage we had this is a guy who was walking his dog and a kid approaches him on the street and yells at him and says, why haven't you got the contract done? This is a guy

Starting point is 01:38:13 who was robbed, allegedly at gunpoint for his Range Rover with his wife in the car. And they didn't know who Mitch Marner was. And they didn't know who Mitch Marner was. I don't want people who don't know that story to not be confused. He's had a rough few years. Those other examples are like hockey things.

Starting point is 01:38:29 This was just like... They wanted the Range Rover. Yeah, somebody targeted the car and they didn't know who Mitch Marner was. So his, I don't know what it's like to have a gun waved in my face or even have a knife waved or be threatened to get out of my car, but you bet your ass I'm getting out of the car and giving you the keys. And beyond all that, I can understand how with the golf balls and the garbage and the Montreal Canadiens merch and the everything else, and then getting robbed, why you would

Starting point is 01:38:55 have sort of a shitty taste in your mouth about the place that you live. And also the schedule A bonuses, the Mike Babcock stuff. You don't, I'm sorry. you don't forget that i know i don't forget that so i'm caught between i i perfectly understand being bitter about the schedule a bonuses but i'm also like okay when when do you drop it like you you then signed a how much was this contract 65 66 67 million when do you when do you stop being mad yeah when do you realize you're scrooge mcduck you did the timeline is like you got screwed on those bonuses but then the leafs gave you everything you wanted

Starting point is 01:39:36 in the next was already done yeah but then you got everything you wanted no but the damage was already done because they marner's camp again this is both sides marner's camp screwed that up they thought his pr image was unbeatable couldn't and by the way it was but they thought it was bulletproof and it wasn't and then what happens is you get fans on him harassing family members uh messaging people that know him and you also have a group of people around him that frankly don't do the elliot friedman thing which is don't send them the articles about themselves no do not do that and so what you have now is you have an objective situation where people in his orbit hate the media and they hate the fans and you i don't know how mitch feels

Starting point is 01:40:26 about any of these things specifically i can tell he doesn't like the media but i can also say i don't expect him to that yeah i don't expect him to either i don't really care um but i can also say that mitch cared a lot yes the guys in the room love this guy yeah love this guy very popular teammate okay so this is a scenario where this is a bad relationship and it's ending and who do i put that at the feet of i put that partially at the feet of the people that were the the grown adults in the room over the age of 50 who were leading him the wrong way in those 2019 negotiations i also put it at the president's foot of the toronto maple leafs he's the reason they're losing him for nothing but one literally one of the greatest players who's ever played for

Starting point is 01:41:15 your organization mitch isn't getting any blame there well i i hundred percent well i mean he's Because you've got seven assists and no goals in 20 games. Because this is where I'm getting to it. And I wanted that context because now what I'm hearing after these games, because I get messages from people, they're going, yeah, after game five, nothing. After game six, the messages I got were, yeah, what are you going to say about them now, assholes?

Starting point is 01:41:44 Wait, did you actually get a message? Is it from who I think? No. No. and because I talk to people and and then it's and then after game seven it's he's probably out of here can't wait for you guys not to be able to mess around anymore and I and and here's the problem what it's gotten to I think within that camp is that they think it's the fans and the media's fault it doesn't matter they feel like whatever they do everybody's gonna hate Mitch

Starting point is 01:42:17 anyway and by the way people don't hate Mitch I asked at sports check here um who their top selling jersey this year was and recently it was Nylander and Nyes and they sold they sold well over 3,000 jerseys this year and they were selling about 150 every home game for the playoffs okay jeez it's crazy wow at one store guess guess who the highest selling jerseys murder of course and you know what's interesting is as a media member when I hear this stuff back as feedback it feels a little bit like twitter feels twitter feels like you know people could say hey i love your content you're like great someone goes hey you're a fucking loser it sticks with you all day right yes yes we in the media have draped these guys in laurels when they've done well all we

Starting point is 01:43:04 have done is sung their praises and by the way as a fan that's all i want to do there's no equity in the bank of goodwill you could say a hundred thousand good things about mitch marner it doesn't and it's a leaky bucket but when it comes to when it comes to criticism there they go see see and it doesn't matter six against Montreal you weren't very good what it does and it just deletes the last half decade it doesn't matter to them that Mitch Marner had two shots on goal in the final five games of the Florida series it doesn't matter to them that you know Mitch Marner's I think game five, six, and seven point totals. I think he's played over 20 games total

Starting point is 01:43:45 in a five, six, and seven. Seven assists in 20 games. Seven assists in 20 games. Also, I think that's three shots now because he had two last night. Oh, he had two last night. Three, excuse me. So he had two in one game, one in another,

Starting point is 01:43:54 and that's five games. Guys, what I'm saying here is that it's toxic on both sides. What I will not accept is that it is Leafs fans' fault. It's insulting. You don't have to justify it. What is it about that that we had any control over?

Starting point is 01:44:16 What in any of what I've just told you did the fans have any control of? Other than their emotional reaction to, okay, you want to make this much money? Here's the expectations. Adam, to be fair, I kept sending him passes into his feet. I kept doing it. He asked for it a little in front of him, and I couldn't do it. If Mitch Marner had just scored ever in his life in a game seven, all of this is fine it goes away completely and that's if you just if he just performed on this

Starting point is 01:44:45 is where like i all of this for me falls on him because his job is to perform on the ice and if he was the type of player that could perform in the playoffs and carry this team to victory even one time in one of these important games like i'm not talking about game sixes i'm talking about the final games if he had ever done that and shown up everything's fine you know people have been saying this like a like a gotcha but like i agree with you marner's gonna go somewhere else he's gonna win a cup yeah probably yeah it'll probably unlock the playoff side of his game you know he's gonna play with mckinnon oh that actually makes a lot of sense you might go to the abs and just be their next guy running there like ranting was and they'll win a cup and he just becomes mini

Starting point is 01:45:28 mckinnon yeah like instead of martin this this this meek uh persona that he's had in toronto he's just going to turn into like a chickpea pasta master and frigging just beat up anyone who ever eats a car but i think i think steve like you should expand on it's not a dunk on the least fans that he's going to move on and be successful we all kind of expect that like listen i i think the the fans and the media and all that i think i obviously think it's laughable but it it definitely applies to certain people of course it applies to certain people and towards the end of his tenure here like i i was yelling at brad who had just got here like you gotta move this guy before his no move kicks in but once it kicked in my attention sort of became why do you

Starting point is 01:46:21 want this what like you you wear the jersey like a weighted vest it's and it's so obvious and it is a burden to you and some guys can do this and maybe he could at the beginning and things happen we change his people under the circumstances yada yada i don't think being a leaf was good for him uh towards the end so i like i think that's valid i don't know why he wanted it i think he wasted two years here yeah and at the end but like i i 100 think he's gonna go somewhere else and he's gonna have the weight of the world off his shoulders he's gonna become the best skater in the league he's gonna win an art ross and he might win a con smith it's gonna be hilarious two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer that's why every step and dollar

Starting point is 01:47:11 raised matters on september 19th join thousands in toronto for the princess margaret cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. CJ, in his article about Marner and like what happens next, he made the great point that Mitch is the first member of the Corps 4 now that is coming due and he has the decision now to break up the core it's no longer on brendan shanahan or kyle dubas to just keep the road steady and continue now we have somebody who might not want to be a part of this anymore and is now on one of the members to be like yeah i'm done with this

Starting point is 01:48:01 experiment it's it's insulting the news of shanahan's firing hasn't come down while we've recorded it's it's it has been unjustifiable for years it gave birth to the i just got here well unfortunately this morning keith pelly is gonna have to get out of bed and do his job and uh take a dog out back like dude it's insane this guy is still the president holy shit are you kidding after all this after all that he is the reason things got so toxic he is the reason for the booze because fans can't believe you ran this back they cannot fucking believe and if you were on the ice brandon it would have been you getting booed they cannot believe you ran this back yeah when you're and you're the reason they're getting nothing when mitch marner he sat the final three

Starting point is 01:48:58 minutes of the game the uh craig brube refused to put him out there on the ice but when he was out there the brief moments before that before brad marchand uh scored the empty netter he got booed by the fans but the fans aren't booing mitch directly some of them are some of them for his performances on the ice because they have not been good enough but the fans are unhappy because the guys above them decided that mitch marner is the guy for the team yes guy the guy i refuse to blame brad for this god i refuse god is brad sure living in his interview with brendan shanahan i assume had to had to agree to brendan shanahan's plan that he wanted to keep things together i don't think brad's living out of choice in any of this the fans some a lot

Starting point is 01:49:39 of that anger is just directed at the organization as a whole yes they're booing the crest and the people who are running it because they've made these terrible decisions consistently over the course of this entire tenure and jesse marner is representative not directly he's representative of those terrible decisions of those because one of the biggest one by the way yeah because he's the biggest one by the way it's let me just tell you something they'll tell you being patient is hard doing nothing is easy and i don't know i found it pretty difficult and i gotta tell you it um i feel like for i think mitch has made some mistakes i think specifically the people around him have made enormous errors but i also feel for him in the sense that the leafs need to be the one

Starting point is 01:50:31 the guys over 50 who played in the league who won stanley cups need to be smart enough to know hey not only is this not working but it's going to get toxic real quick here and and and listen the Leafs not trading Mitch or Willie or Austin or whatever it's not just Mitch but Mitch is the hot point right because Willie could have been traded too in that June he could have been traded because he had an expiring deal exactly and they ended up so when you commit to Marner's deal not expiring or not expiring rather when you commit to letting Marner's no move kick in you had to trade Willie you have to trade Willie and you did and what did they let him do they let him become one of the best players in the league they signed him to a huge contract and now you've just got all

Starting point is 01:51:21 four of them again you idiots like signing willie was all right we're doing this for the next two years and if it works it works and it didn't and so of course you should be fine and that point of you i should see him walking outside behind me where the friggin with a box of shit where is he shanny yes oh one of those like old filing boxes you know there's an ai picture of that i'm sure oh yes there is that was the one that was the one sent to the group chat that's maybe they can find a wheelbarrow a big enough to fucking carry his ego like it's it's insane i think it's insane the decisions he made it's it's important and i said it for years i've gone gray in the beard saying these things and i don't enjoy saying i told you so i'd rather it be hey they listened

Starting point is 01:52:11 I can tell you emphatically that Leafs alumni from multiple generations behind the scenes have expressed a ton of frustration that they're obviously not going to say publicly. Of course not. About how this team plays hockey. And this dates back to 2020 and 2021, specifically the Canadian series. A lot of them think, well, a lot of them thought at the time, and the people that I talked to said at the time, this has got to be over, right? You lose the bubble, you lose the Habs, and then the next year you lose the Tampa. One of those, someone has to put their foot down, for God's sake, and they wouldn't do it. So, the other thing is, from the get, the Leafs alumni, some of the legends, most of the legends, were pissed Shani got hired in the first place.

Starting point is 01:53:11 And said, you know, there were reputational things that they had an issue with. The fact that he was never a Leaf they had an issue with. You know, I don't know if, I can't speak to the fact that Shani wasn't a Leaf or whatever. I don't think that's fair. yeah and i all i'm doing is expressing what i've been told i'm not saying that this is a valued argument ken dryden did a pretty good job yeah and he was a montreal canadian you know like yeah but the point is this guy shanny came in he did turn around a shitty culture he did bring in people that the leafs have right and a lot of wrongs he but then when it came to hey shanny

Starting point is 01:53:52 you're going to have to adjust your plan because the world has changed around you. The cap is flat. COVID is here. The Leafs continue to get run out of the playoffs the same way. And when they lose, like I said on the last show, or two shows ago, when they lose, they lose like losers. They don't just lose.

Starting point is 01:54:11 Vegas lost to Edmonton. Vegas put up a good fight. The Leafs, in games five and game seven, lost like losers lose. Sorry. no it was tight that is what it is and we've seen this tight six one loss and it's oh but if Tavares was healthy oh if they had better goaltending off they had this oh get lost they have gone every year three general managers three coaches probably 15 assistant coaches

Starting point is 01:54:37 oh my god so many and at a certain point everybody is saying the same damn thing and I can tell you there's a couple of legends in particular who are very pissed about how this team plays in the playoffs and it's it is at a certain point this is where your focus needs to be guys don't worry about what kachuk saying about the fans don't worry about uh you know and i i get outside journalists too guys and they're and they're like well the leafs letting marner go for nothing would be a huge mistake yeah we know yeah but they know they made that mistake two years ago like it I only know one language and it's English and all I can do at this point is repeat myself.

Starting point is 01:55:21 We're running in circles here. So then I want to get, I want to, I want to do take a minute here and stand up for the fans because leave fans have taken a lot of shit. You know, you got a player's camp who hates them. Most disrespected,

Starting point is 01:55:35 probably underappreciated fan base in any sport. You guys have seen dramatic loss after dramatic loss and you still put 10,000 people in the square because you want it so bad you want the lower bowl for game six and you paid to do it you paid to be in a building well other teams do that to watch it yeah but still you've sold out the lower bowl i hear rogers put on a pretty good uh show good for them yeah you have put it on tv and you know what i'm gonna i have to say it after game five i saw the hockey night panel go you know the booze really don't help thank you and i'm like i don't think the booze are to help yeah have we how about can we address that have you ever been booing in a productive way

Starting point is 01:56:25 that's good they're shouting fuck you i was yelling boo i paid a grand to be here you're down six one and i find discontentment in that the booing is not to help sorry to break down the fourth wall sorry to blow your mind the booing isn't to help that's that's a good point i don't think they ever thought about it like that well the booing doesn't help yeah we know the booze Is it to motivate the team? I have. Fuck. Fuck a joke.

Starting point is 01:56:58 I have just about had it. Just about had it with the talking down to. What more do you want to put this fan base through? What more do you want to do here? And then to be chided on national television by the fan base that quite literally bankrolls your network. Are you kidding, guys? And I'm sorry. I know they're good people.

Starting point is 01:57:21 I'm not trying to say that these are bad people. Oh, we've got to preface everything with they're good people. But it's a terrible take. Come on on the show. We can't just have a conversation. Come on on the show and explain yourself. This is enough. Enough.

Starting point is 01:57:33 Dude, I would. Hold on. This group deserves so much better. We deserve a local broadcast team. We can't get that. All the games are fucking national. So they got to be. Even with Florida, we got to be neutral.

Starting point is 01:57:45 We deserve a local panel. We get it from TSN. We get it from Amazon. We get it from fucking Amazon. We can't get it from Sportsnet. Jeffrey. It's crazy. I'm sitting here, and I'm looking at the tweets today,

Starting point is 01:58:00 and people going, yeah, well, Leaf fans are toxic. I am begging, pleading with you to watch any other sport ever. Steve said it perfectly. How does LeBron James get out of bed? How does Messi get out of bed? Any NFL player. How does Mo Salah get out of bed? I don't understand how you think.

Starting point is 01:58:19 Listen, is fandom toxic? in certain cases every fan group is toxic hell yeah every one of them i went to a scottish football game first of all there's a chain link fence separating the home supporters from the road and the whole game that ended in a zero zero draw by the way i made a compilation on my phone because i kept trying to get a goal there were no goals so it's just a compilation of scottish people going fuck off pish fuck me

Starting point is 01:58:50 fuck off can you sing one of the songs oh god it'd be like I oh fuck your grandma no no dude I'll be waiting for that fuck your grandma there was

Starting point is 01:59:05 you know what it was they were screaming such vulgar obscenities from I think it was directed at the road supporters and they were screaming it right back and i was like oh my god there's kids here and i look at the kids in the row in front of me and the kids are going right back at them going jerk off motion and i'm like dude it's it's no every kid in europe's born with like a heineken in their hand i'm so grateful i am so grateful for my for my immigrant in-laws i am so grateful

Starting point is 01:59:39 for my scottish in-laws for every time i go so there's a narrative out there and it's that leaf fans blah and my father-in-law it is it's just it's the joke that never fails to get a laugh it's a knee slapper every time this man has cheered for liverpool his whole life you think playing hockey in toronto is hard oh yeah fuck off do you hey hey man have the new york yankees ever won a championship or did no they all buckle under the pressure oh that's crazy because he wants so it overturned this week yeah and they all turned around yeah the entire right field wall turned around when he came out it was awesome i am hilarious no and and and you know what um friggin uh derrick jeter said every home game of his career he peers behind the curtains and he

Starting point is 02:00:28 goes fuck there's people that watch boys you're not gonna like this fans game and this is and he never won a chip this is where it gets frustrating because you you have and i get it it's the nhl they don't want to have uh they don't want to have fans at the games they just want to collect the paycheck i am proud of the fact that i live and die by this team i am proud of the fact don't read that no i'm not i'm proud of the fact i'm incapable i have no eyes i am proud of the fact that there are millions of us who are willing to. And I am proud of the fact that when Sheldon Keefe goes to the New Jersey Devils and says,

Starting point is 02:01:07 well, you're in the real NHL now. Do you think the NHLs wouldn't be better with more fan groups like this? Do you think that Oilers fans, if they'd been through this, would it be any different? Canucks fans, Canadians fans? Because I can tell you those guys get accused of being toxic all the time as well.

Starting point is 02:01:22 But if they went through this shit, they would be Montreal, literally Vancouver, literally riots. Yes. Yes. I just, I think it's obnoxious. And if you don't want to take it from me, take it from a guy who played. Carlo Koliakovo. You guys interested in this? Here's what he said today. The whole narrative that's being created, that it's the media and the fans at fault for putting too much pressure on the team is quite comical. Toronto has the most passionate fan base in the world for NHL. I think, I don't know if we can beat EPL fans.

Starting point is 02:01:54 I think he means in hockey. And fans bleed blue and white for this team. I can tell you from someone that works in the media that we absolutely want nothing more than to watch the Leafs win. Exactly. We don't put pressure on this team or players, if anything. Some of us get criticized when we pump this team's tires for being as great as they've shown us they can be and wanting to believe each year will be different. We react the way they play. Is that what you call pressure? So let's be honest. Pressure is built from within and from similar failure. I hate it And I believe every Leaf fan hates it. Toronto is undoubtedly one of the best markets in the world to play because people care.

Starting point is 02:02:34 The spotlight is huge to me. That's what playing sports is all about. Either you want it and find a way to thrive, or you don't. I would have loved to play in these playoff moments when I played for the Leafs. Unfortunately, the closest I got was being haunted by the name Wade Dublowitz forever. You remember that? Yes, I do. Is there pressure to play here?

Starting point is 02:02:55 Absolutely. not because of the fans or the media making it hard. It's hard to play anywhere in the league when expectations aren't met. As far as where the future looks for this team of players, there is no excuse for losing the way they did in games five and seven, but be careful what you wish

Starting point is 02:03:10 for. Leaf fans, winning is harder than the NHL. This is a really good Leafs team that lost to a better Florida team and then he goes on. You could have left that end part out. He was on a roll. And I think he nailed it. He was on a roll up until that last sentence. Jesse, nothing in life is perfect. But this is where

Starting point is 02:03:26 i come back to you don't tell me to run it back this is where i come back to this you're gonna catch a lot of shit in the next few days leaf fans you're gonna catch a lot of shit this is not your fault there are people shanny's salary is rumored to be seven million dollars a year this conversation is psychotic no but i need i want people to feel like they that oh no i know i know it's to be clear i don't i don't mean because people are going to think that that's it's psychotic that we have to say these things unfathomable that the people taking the most criticism today weren't on the fucking ice yeah oh my god that's crazy so i sit here and i just want to tell you you're going to take a lot of shit and they're going to dunk on us and i get it and you know

Starting point is 02:04:14 what it's probably pretty satisfying on the other side i'm not going to lie man i wish i had a target like the Leafs the content would be amazing I would have choreography to dunk on the Florida Panthers this morning but alas so you don't get to see my sexy moves with that in mind I just want you to take this away and go this ain't your fault there are people on this team that need to go and the person who needs to go the most is not Mitch Marner it's not John Tavares it's not whoever you don't particularly like it's brendan shanahan first second and third place i'm waiting for my uh i'm waiting for my notification from leaf's pr i know uh brendan shanahan's been let go but it hasn't he you know what hasn't happened yet i blame him for the mitch marner situation

Starting point is 02:04:58 more than i blame mitch or his people or anything else mitch could have been traded and shanny should have seen that this was going to go this way but he didn't you know why arrogance oh he's stubborn he wants to stick to the shanna plan the plan isn't working hasn't worked for half a decade shanny what are we doing we got to this point and you couldn't get us past and what did you do nothing you did nothing but the same thing you'd always done and so now we're left looking like shit here and you exposed mitch and you exposed austin and you exposed willie and tavaris and the rest of them because you kept them together and now you've exposed the number one most important thing and people forget this by the way you know what fans are uh forgiving

Starting point is 02:05:49 reason you are alive clients we're your clients why do you think anybody wants to sponsor the leafs is it because they do it out of the goodness of their heart it's because fans are like hey i'm there and i love the leaf so much and they want a piece of that i cannot overstate what a complete culture shock it was to go to san jose and experience the sharks i i cannot explain what a complete instead of everything being gatekept and having to earn everything they're like come on in we're so happy to have you they have to earn fans they have to earn fans and they act like it that's It's so weird. Isn't it weird that the one thing we're being told is holding the Leafs back today

Starting point is 02:06:32 is the one thing every other team is dying to achieve? That's the reason the three of us were in San Jose this year. They're trying to grow their organization. So they reached out to a Toronto podcast to come down and see everything. Because they can't get somebody from the Athletic or the San Jose Mercury or any of those guys or anybody from San Francisco to come out and bloody cover their team. And it's not because their team isn't great.

Starting point is 02:06:56 it's not because they don't media is being cut back a lot let's be honest that's part of it yes uh that's the only part they just don't have the fan base right they they have but they with the fans they have it's an amazing community and they you know what they do to the fans they make them feel like hey you're part of this we couldn't be here without you and at that the Leafs are like oh you're here again yeah because they take it for granted like the organization takes it for granted that they have so many fans more fans than anybody what are you doing here yeah fuck off like i get a like i'm not completely shitting on the leafs organization no they've they've been very good to me but you know i do i i have a special life i do uh i've gotten experiences not a lot

Starting point is 02:07:38 of people have and i'm very blessed for that but man there are a lot of ropes you have to jump through uh to be a hardcore fan of this team as opposed to other and you know what will happen this show will get passed around circles and we always know what it does oh they don't listen they don't listen they listen and it'll be like see these guys are the reason no nobody wants to be here i don't think within those walls i think it will be with within those walls we have more supporters than we don't i believe that in my heart yeah and i know it so so that's rant over leaf fans you just keep being yourselves don't shit post uh don't don't you know drop garbage on someone's lawn don't fucking throw golf balls at someone's house don't throw beer on the ice

Starting point is 02:08:23 and don't throw your jersey on the ice during play don't throw things on the ice like just don't don't put things guys are literally skating around they're skating around backwards often you know like it's just dangerous from a human perspective person to person don't throw things on the ice it's not very nice yes that you can boo you know we uh we know a guy who's a hockey coach he accidentally got on the ice with a skate guard on because he's just on the ice all the time he fell and he tore his rotator cuff like that could have happened to any of these guys that could be like literally a career limiting injury don't do that don't be a psycho now i do want to say darren drager apparently reported well not apparently he did report yesterday that the leafs

Starting point is 02:09:04 were had marner want to wanted to negotiate in season the leafs were prepared to offer him 13 and a half million this is pre miko rantanen and he wasn't willing to negotiate absolute psychopath And so they're going to go to market. And I will tell you something. I don't think he's getting that because I will tell you that general managers have eyes. And it's not that Mitch is not a great hockey player. It's not. I think you're totally wrong.

Starting point is 02:09:30 Yeah, me too. You think I'm totally wrong? Here's why I think you're totally wrong. I think that if he wants to go to a team like Chicago, he can get $13.5 million. If he wants to go to a winning team, he's not getting that. Adam, we just spent an hour and a half defending the existence of Leaf fans. I think people think this is Toronto's fault. I think they think their situation is smarter and better,

Starting point is 02:09:53 and he'll get the money, and everyone involved is going to be convinced they're winning a cup. You know how many times I've looked at a pro athlete and been like, ah, nobody's going to pay him that money, and then a GM does? Like, all GMs are, or I shouldn't say all GMs, there's a bunch of GMs out there who just pay people the money. I suppose then Jesse Marner is going to make more money than Austin Matthews next year

Starting point is 02:10:14 Yes he is and at least we're prepared to pay him that too But I don't think he's going to get If he's going to get that he's not going to get it with a winning team I think that's different It depends on what scenario he steps into I feel like if that money If you want that 13 and a half He can find it

Starting point is 02:10:29 There's 32 teams somebody's going to pay it I'm also just going to say this because we talked about the 2019 negotiations a lot Who'd that report come from? Drags oh yeah okay yeah somebody'll pay it so with that that's that's sort of all i have locker clean out this week when is it will come out uh we're not sure yet okay uh so it's not i'll be there when it happens but um when there are firings they stretch things out over a couple days which is interesting so we'll see what day the players just want to get on vacation

Starting point is 02:11:02 get the hell out of here like and they're gonna i'm thinking it's tomorrow but it could be wednesday come on guys we lost at home can't we just leave so we'll see i do think it's worth mentioning too we'll get uh cj show is coming out today and we'll get him booked for our usual post-season end of season thing autopsy after that but jesse might be it might be from carolina it might be from carolina and jesse i uh you know i we are gonna move this show around based on sort of locker clean out schedule because it's important that you're there yeah yeah we'll see well that but i don't know i don't know what day it is yeah yeah stay tuned so we think we're doing a show wednesday but we don't know yet we'll find out um but anyway do you guys have anything else

Starting point is 02:11:42 you want to add yeah i got 20 minutes on uh no i just we're gonna do more we're not done steve after you finished the lfr yesterday how long did it take you to get to bed and what did you do Did you just do scroll and to death because they did tell you to go to bed at 2 a.m. I know that I woke up to the group chat. Yeah. And I had to wake up at a certain time to be on. I was on what chaos at nine that I did CBC at 11. Oh, no.

Starting point is 02:12:16 Everyone remembers they have my number when the Leafs lose. That video is like a quarter mil right now. You didn't want to make it. But I would have rather they be in the third round because it's like booking a dinner reservation at Death Row. They're going to get you whatever you want, but at the end of the meal, you die. S-T-E-P.

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The Steve Dangle Podcast - Shanaplosion | May 19, 2025

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