The Steve Dangle Podcast - Sliding Doors | October 17, 2025

Starting point is 00:00:00 Sometimes life throws your curveballs and you don't have time to get to them and that's where TaskRabbit comes in and I think you should check this out because here's the deal. One of the things, one of the weird quirks about my condo building is that they use my floor to repel down and clean all the windows but they never clean my windows. And their way around on that is like, well, it's a patio window, you can do that yourself. And I'm like, well, hang on a second. What if I don't want to? I don't have the stuff because you got to have that scraper thing and the washer thing.

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Starting point is 00:01:10 download that TaskRabbit.ca code Dangle. Don't you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life? You know, the same way you can skip an ad. I get it. I'm Siaya and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned. And today, I'm still figuring it out. Somehow, things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently, that's how I roll. So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Don't miss the new season of North of North starting September 8th on CBC Gem.

Starting point is 00:01:44 Spank Andy. Woo! S. D. D. P. P. The Steve Dangle Podcast.

Starting point is 00:01:51 With your hosts, Steve Dangle, Adam Wilde, and Jesse Blake. Let's go! Big show today. Kevin McGrann is joining us to talk about his book, Austin Matthews, A Life in Hockey. This is going to be a really fun interview. We've never had Kevin on. It was long overdue.

Starting point is 00:02:05 Remember when I was like, we're going to have Kevin on for 15 minutes? Yeah. And it was 50. It's going to be, you're going to love this interview. That'll be at the end of the other part of this episode, the second half, I guess, of it. To get through some things really quickly,

Starting point is 00:02:17 because we are in a bit of a time crunch, Easter Seals, the link works now, and I'm starting to get donations too. The link's always worked in these episodes. Oh. i guess i just gave drew the wrong link i don't know i don't know but thank you because everyone's donating now rachel's raiders is now over 10 000 and the tournament is over 78 000 let's keep let's keep cooking rachel's raiders goal is 50k and the tournament's goal i believe is 500k so

Starting point is 00:02:45 let's cook great and uh speaking of we've got a live show tomorrow uh the rec room at roundhouse downtown toronto and it's the it's hilarious because seattle is in town uh and i don't know if you guys know this but seattle and toronto are facing off in another notable series so a lot of seattle are the supersonics back yeah no no they're not not yet they will be in a couple years uh but yeah lots of lots of seattle toronto i did not make that connection yeah and the jays are not playing so the jays will play tonight then then the leafs in seattle will play and then the j and so if the leafs beat seattle that counts towards the j series i think that's how it works Yes, just wanted to crack and win.

Starting point is 00:03:24 It does. What's the crack in schedule? Because would they stick around? No, they play the Flyers in Philly on Monday. I was like, maybe the flyer, the Kraken team can stick around and cheer on their other team. It would be cool, but they can't. I guess they got to get cracking. I got news for you.

Starting point is 00:03:38 They ain't cheering on the Mariners. Why not? A team full of Canadians. Stop it. Oh, Steve, you missed the big Vancouver kerfuffle. Oh, I know. because a lot of vancouver fans were like hey you didn't cheer for us in 2011 so why would we cheer for you and i was like hey wait a second um uh because there's 2011 uh uh where is this argument

Starting point is 00:04:03 happening this is how it was a huge thing in vancouver canucks like media and twitter uh this past weekend a huge it was huge i'm not it was huge uh and it was a i was watching it going wow I think it started with Don Taylor from Donnie and Dolly and went from there. It's a lot of Vancouver Mariners fans going, why would we cheer for stupid Toronto? Fair enough, but don't blame it on us not cheering for the Vancouver Canucks in the 2011 Stanley Cup, which, by the way, you think people from the East want to cheer for Boston? Are you out of your mind? Come on.

Starting point is 00:04:35 Yeah, this was before all the Game 7 stuff. Yeah, but I still hate Boston. Are you kidding me? Well, I just with with Canucks pockets of hockey Twitter, I've always found it very amusing that for years and years and years, they've been like, don't fuck yourself to absolutely everyone. And then they're like, they hate us because they ain't us. It's got nothing to do with our general demeanor towards anyone who's not us. I've never in my life hated a Vancouver team. In fact, when the Leafs were bad, you know who was great?

Starting point is 00:05:07 The Canucks. They were fun to watch. The Canucks won the president's trophy. We're not cheering for Goliath. No one's. No, you should. Cheer for the big guy. The reason I asked where this thing was happening,

Starting point is 00:05:19 because sometimes these arguments happen and they don't happen with anybody outside of their cell phone. Right. They're not based in reality. No, it was definitely content. Okay. Yeah. All right.

Starting point is 00:05:29 It was content. Now, let's talk a little bit about, I just need to talk about the fact that the Jays frigging won the game last night. and the fact that jesse is here and able to speak is a freak is it's a miracle because there were some moments where his voice i told you when he screams it's like a buzzsaw he's got the deep sex he's going on though i don't have that range but i try yeah it was great vocal cords crap out um uh and i think it's important to start with this okay because this relates to hockey i know we're

Starting point is 00:05:56 a hockey podcast but um i just want to give you vladimir guerrero jr stats so far this this and this is from the mlb account so you don't even have to question me on it okay um he is 15 for 33 that's a 455 average good lord he has five home runs amazing he has 11 rbis wow and his ops uh is a 1.47 now a good ops is what jesse like if you're throughout a regular season yeah no that's like when you get into the uh when you put in the one in front of it you're you're otherworldly you're just the one yeah if you get to a single one yeah yeah that's like one and a half he's at a one and a half yeah so so here's what i want to impart to our audience um just a reminder specifically to leaf fans uh myself included who have made excuses for players

Starting point is 00:06:45 so many times uh when you're in the playoffs your best players need to be your best players every night for you to win and when vladdy wasn't hitting in the first two games of this series what was happening uh they were not winning and what what's happened since he started hitting they have won and what happened in the yankee series when he hit they won i just want to throw that out there instead of blaming the backup goalie uh or blame in uh third line guy who gave puck away and believe me i've been the guy i've done it uh best guys need to be best at hardest time of year you need a little bit of everything you know uh jimenez um yeah that's the number nine hitter yeah back-to-back games with two run shots home runs in back-to-back games has he ever done

Starting point is 00:07:31 that professionally like ever i don't know um you know barger with a couple you know he struggled to hit sometimes but he's made a couple great catches you need all those things but if you don't get the big guys swinging the bat the way they are do you win exactly and i just again want to make it about the leafs because that's what it's always about kerfoot gets uh six points in seven games against the habs he does better than anyone could possibly expect spezza gets three goals in that series is better than anyone could expect big big guys don't show up you die yeah that's that's how it works now I want to just quickly mention uh Max Scherzer because it's also important to have complete psychos on your team we've all by this point I mean the game's in

Starting point is 00:08:13 a few hours at the time of this release so I'm not gonna I'm not gonna dwell too much but we've all seen the interaction between him and John Schneider and then John Schneider after the game going I thought he was gonna kill me it was great yeah but I want to read this one little blurb from Keegan Matheson, who writes for MLB.com for the Blue Jays. He's a really great reporter. He's a great writer. And here's what he said. Mad Max did not earn his name by accident, nor has he grown up, nor has he grown any less mad. In the hour leading up to first pitch, he paced the outfield frantically and without pattern. He'd jog in a loop, then he'd stretch his neck. He'd sprint 100 feet and then throw a few invisible pitches. By the time Scherzer made it to the bullpen,

Starting point is 00:08:56 he was arguing with ghosts one pitch he'd be flailing his arms out to the side upset with a ball with a make-believe batter uh that the batter watched sail by again make-believe the next pitch he'd be pleased then fire a pistol with the tip of his finger towards the catcher and blow the smoke third base coach carlos fabulous and pitching coach pete pitching coach pete walker uh were both narrowly mowed down by scherzer in the dugout at different points of the game as he stormed back and forth for all they know they may have just been baby blue blurs in scherzer's vision this man is psychotic 41 year old man 41 year old man with that kind of fire in his belly i hope he never retires i don't want to know mad max in retirement what the fuck what's he gonna do that

Starting point is 00:09:48 rage yeah yeah that's gotta go somewhere that's uh oh my god that goes so hard oh my god we're if they end up doing the thing we're getting that in the office you know that right yeah we're getting i think we might need to get it anyway we might need to get it anyway oh my god now this is the thing that i think other other teams and listen i the jays have not won anything they've not won anything they've tied the series that's great but i have seen time and time again in hockey that the team with psychos and perhaps the team with the most psychos tends to win you need psychos you need psychos again best players need to show up you need psychos you need psychos and you need them to stay in the game because i can already hear people

Starting point is 00:10:28 going well you ran cadre out of town well no cadre ran cadre out of town yes he did yeah and also he ran uh cadre out of town uh via going through the opponent's brain yes um on several occasions having these people in your lineup is the shit you need it you need it you need it um thank you for coming to my ted talk psychos are okay steve does that picture remind you of any particular least picture screaming at the coach no it are you sure nothing jogs your memory here uh jesse what do you what do you got i know what you're gonna say what do you matter do i need my glasses maddie oh i pulled up radko gudas yelling in joseph wall's face this and the bennett stuff and what was happening here i believe the least were they winning

Starting point is 00:11:29 uh the florida panthers were celebrating ending the leaf season on an ill-gotten goal that should have been a penalty because they were holding kelly yarn croak stick which last time i checked you're not allowed to do unless colin campbell's son works for your team um yeah you want to know why tampa's fines were so high i uh oh yeah well you know they hurt uh colin campbell's son's team you're never wrong for bringing that up because those emails exist no i'll forever be salty about that those were those are legal documents yeah that exists that they were tampering with the uh the way the rules are doled out to specialize for certain people that they like and they don't like.

Starting point is 00:12:09 Who's that X man that who can like slow down time quick silver. I don't know. Or like the flat. You ever see those things where, um, like I think in the Sonic, the hedgehog movie, he's able to slow down time.

Starting point is 00:12:22 Okay. My son watches it. If I could do that and I knew I wouldn't get caught. One of the first things I would do is go down to the hockey hall of fame with a jackhammer and remove Colin Campbell forever. Um, and, uh put up i don't know maybe a picture of aaron rome in its place when you're talking about

Starting point is 00:12:40 psychos adam i think like the first thing i think about with you relate that to hockey is the florida panthers yes they have the most psychos they are psychotic it's this radko gudas play from the 2014 playoffs it's sam bennett from the last one elbowing everybody he ivan barbachev with the friggin golden knights in 22 oh yeah yeah but the florida panthers i think are the psychos right now about the blues 2019 running someone from behind uh i don't even remember who it was and scoring the game winning goal and they go on to win the cup and who wasn't there anymore yeah gregory campbell was not there anymore you're not getting that call jesse the uh on a roster you know in a dress lineup the psychos per 18 yeah i think you go through that lineup

Starting point is 00:13:21 everybody out there is willing to do the things that it takes to win in the nhl and win the stanley the amount of people that i saw celebrating and this is crazy i know not toronto people like other markets who have not played florida in the play of celebrating or being like good when dimitri kulikov went down oh i'm like dimitri kulikov apologies no apologies but even on the surface level you don't think of aaron ekblad as that player no but then it's like steroid mcgee's coming out and he's gonna elbow people you know so everybody in that lineup has that in though when you talk about uh you know dna change has been a big topic here president rules paul paul maurice they had joel quinville we'll never know how that would have

Starting point is 00:14:10 gone um because he was there for like five seconds we'll never know how that would have gone obviously he won cups andrew brunette to paul maurice crazy they won the president's with andrew brunette they've gone to they've gone to the san lincoln final every year paul maurice has been their head coach because he's prison rules paul he's crazy old i don't think you can be more right about that assessment of where that mentality comes from because paul maurice like a fart sniffing paul like everything that he is that is his team yep and the reason they play like that is because from the head coach down and he's a master at this thing and there's a reason they got back to backups yeah the the jets weren't good enough they didn't get

Starting point is 00:15:01 enough saves while he was there and that was something that followed paul maurice around for a lot of his career um like i was either head coach during pav electricity i i think um the talent there the goaltending there and the fuck you there that was a great team if this is a copycat league literally copy the cats copy the florida panthers and uh they're the champions they're the current standard and whatever happens to them happens that's how i look at it if their guys get hurt what am i supposed to do feel bad fuck you also fuck you too yeah and what pulver is always in the media throughout that entire both playoff runs all he's talking about is the great group of guys they have and now everybody's such a team and i feel like that's

Starting point is 00:15:52 that's an underrated part of this thing yeah they love each other and they hate everybody else yes you know they're all in it for themselves and they don't care who's trying to get in their way because they're for the next guy next to them on the bench there shouldn't have been a handshake line that night never should everybody just been a team brawl actually yeah palmarese agrees actually yeah no like you screamed at our rookie goalies face we should have all just taken turns beating the shit out of each other but oh you mean like the leafs this night yeah no that it's it's not you guys can't see it now but it's been on jesse's screen the whole time and it's just making me i'm you can throw it up yeah i'm relating to matt to max scherzer more

Starting point is 00:16:33 and more the more i look at this photo one of my eyes is currently turning brown that's that's how friggin i hate this photo i hate this fucking all right so this is the one we got to put up immediately left and went to uh and went to a nice market where there's no uh no fans no fans yeah according to radco uh i happen to be a ducks booster this year because i think they're good but i should be austin's cell phone background you know yeah if you want somebody to get motivated like the way you're sitting here getting frustrated at this thing he needs to be reminded like this is what can be done to you at the nhl yeah you know what also happened in that series jesse that that i think could be somebody's phone background that's the first time that i saw uh sam bennett

Starting point is 00:17:17 torpedo somebody's entire playoffs and what he did to matt nice yep if you could that if you go back and you look at that play and you freeze frame it it's violent yeah and matt was killer in that series and once he was out leafs didn't stand a chance it was like he was one of their bright spots i uh i don't want the leafs to try to win their first game against the panthers just kill the panthers yeah seven game series you can yield one go straight to the net no puck i don't give a shit all right i apologize no one follow the leader well let's go you're gonna get a you might big get a big monetary fine for mr cole the campbell man uh who fucking care open up a tree planting business pay all the players because it doesn't matter there's no consequences

Starting point is 00:18:03 for goddamn anything do what you got to do there's no smoking gun i uh i'm kidding um thanks mark also lost in last yesterday's game i want to say the other thing that i wanted to highlight very quickly as we get into the leafs and rangers here is that communication is key one of the things i you know i made a joke about uh the leafs having a bit of a like a daddy kink with uh anthony Stoller's out there because he yells at them all the time but Vladdy yelled at Max and you don't talk to Max Scherzer on game day but he yelled at him and said Max hold your hold your glove in a different way hold it closer because Max likes to hold it out here because you're tipping the pitches and what happened when he did that the inning turned around well if Vladdy tells you

Starting point is 00:18:44 I know what's coming you listen yeah yeah I know you're nuts but even psychos want to win and i thought i mean that is great team communication and guys being engaged in every play jesse the the thing you bring up the radco goodest thing yeah i thought you were going to bring up the mitch marner clip from uh the amazon show where he's like go and fucking hit somebody no no we don't know you don't need to see dry hair mitch yell at people yeah go go and watch the the paul marner weird cbc doc from when mitch was 12 and let me know if there's a line in there that seems eerily familiar sometimes life throws your curveballs and you don't have time to get to them and that's where task rabbit comes in and i think you should check this out because here's

Starting point is 00:19:24 the deal one of the things one of the weird quirks about my condo building is that they use my floor to repel down and clean all the windows but they never clean my windows oh and their way around on that is like well it's a patio window you can do that yourself and i'm like well hang on a second what if i don't want to i don't have the stuff because you gotta have that scraper thing and the and the washer thing chemicals you gotta have the right chemicals see what i'm saying that's why i used task rabbit and i employed a tasker here's the thing task rabbit connects you with taskers in your area for furniture assembly home repairs lawn maintenance mounting window cleaning all that stuff here's the deal 3.4 million pieces of furniture have been assembled 700 000 home

Starting point is 00:20:06 repairs 1.5 million moves and counting go ahead and get ahead of your to-do list 15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.ca or on the TaskRabbit app using the promo code DANGLE. Taskers across Canada book up fast, especially for same day tasks. Get $15 off your first task right now with the promo code DANGLE at TaskRabbit.ca or the TaskRabbit app. You should download that TaskRabbit.ca code DANGLE. Don't you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life you know the same way you can skip an ad i get it i'm siaya and i live in ice cove i've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way i planned and today i'm still figuring it out somehow things usually get worse before they get better apparently that's how i roll so bundle up

Starting point is 00:20:54 and come along for the bumpy ride don't miss the new season of north of north starting september eighth on cbc gem jesse there is a picture that i i wanted you to show up this picture goes hard check this out this is austin matthews and william nylander after a great give and go that won them the game leafs were i think guys to fair to say dominant in the first two periods or or really dominant in the first second period you could split third was all rangers um and is you know the question steve is is igor shishturkan good and you talked about this a little bit on your lfr last night uh he's pretty good he is other he has a losing record uh two wins three losses it's two two and one because this was an overtime he has a losing record with a 962

Starting point is 00:21:40 save percentage through five games that's that's the i don't have words for that the rangers i i was i was telling you on wednesday you didn't believe me this team's gonna be good they're gonna be fine things are gonna turn around they just need to figure out their scoring and i think we underrate how much turnover happened with this rangers team yeah you got a new coach half the rosters changed new leadership group they need to figure out how to play mike sullivan hockey and score goals and that shooting percentage to come up comes up because of how they're getting towards the net and the shots they're placing on and you talked about how they're bumble fucking a lot around with the puck but it was bad those little details they'll figure

Starting point is 00:22:20 themselves out and they have a vesna caliber goaltender now i i want to i just want to address something you said scoring is the issue right what if you had a guy that had 52 goals and then 36 goals and then 39 goals and then he fell to only 22 but then he's got four goals in four games to start the season what if you had that guy chris crider didn't forget how to play hockey huh his back just couldn't hold up last year you have to unless you're the sabers bet on sports science you have to um these guys are coming back man i growing up you got the wrong injury you were toast yep there were so many guys hey whatever happened to you got injured that was it they say that bobby orr's injuries on his knees he would have played 20 years if he if he had those injuries today

Starting point is 00:23:03 he'd be out a couple months let me give you a more recent one jonathan chichu oh man talk about a career robbed a 56 goals now you can be like he was a thornton merchant whatever you still have to score them who gives a shit yeah and it wasn't uh like he was taken off of thornton's line like he had he had an injury right the the eichel thing had never been done in the nhl it's worked a charm it's got a cup and now it's been done a few times the hip the hip resurfacing with patrick kane had not worked it's worked um you you gotta bet on sports science the the advancements are crazy i you know this is anecdotal but i but i told it before my uncle had one of his hips replaced it was like 15 years ago the procedure took it was like four to six hours i can't remember

Starting point is 00:23:56 um he just got one replaced within the past year it was 45 minutes the procedure like things are changing and chris crider like we said most of last year did not forget how to play hockey he was just hurt so here's what JT Miller had to say after the game I want to just do a quick focus on the Rangers because they are a dichotomy right uh he said if you're mentally weak you're going to go off the rails because this isn't working on paper it's about getting the look it's not about if it goes in we're we're going to keep pounding pucks at the net and outplaying teams we're playing against and it's going to work eventually and if you look at the advanced stats they way outscored the Leafs in terms of scoring chances

Starting point is 00:24:36 last night they couldn't connect on a one-timer they couldn't the passing clearly like they're still working but but jesse mentioned it perfectly and i think this is a part of the leafs problem too when we get to them is there's a lot of new blood injected into that lineup and it takes 20 games to sort that out or more they're too comfortable giving up those cross slot passes because i think they're very confident in what they can do in front of their own net and they do a good job right like there will be rebounds and they clear it um and they clear it with poise too right like they don't just go and get rid of it that's why i was so disappointed by that riley icing a couple games ago against detroit like there was no need for that whatsoever um

Starting point is 00:25:18 the stuff they do in front of the net all the time that i think would get you yelled at in most levels of hockey they're able to do it because they're they're confident but this all the stuff just outside of that little bubble um they gotta clean up jesse that's a crazy graphic so yeah i just wanted to throw this up there because adam you outlined briefly like how the game went and i feel like the expected goals the analytics back up exactly what kind of happened in the game the expected goals at five on five all game long it was very even second to third period hits the rangers kind of take things over and they had the higher share of expected goals um it's right there in the third period is kind of where the jump is made and then in overtime it's three on three

Starting point is 00:26:02 it's pond hockey who really it's a coin yeah you can't really you know so i feel like how it played out with a one-one game throughout the whole thing and then they they have the tiebreaker to finish it off it's kind of what is the correct result this two teams were very close and the rangers had a lot of chances they just couldn't finish and their little details aren't quite there yet at this point in the season maybe you want to criticize the coaching for not having them ready for these little details, but I'm willing to give them that leeway and just say like,

Starting point is 00:26:28 it's give them some time. Hey, you just got here. You just got here. If you're trying to figure out who's going to win in the playoffs, take the standings, take every overtime or shootout result and make them a tie.

Starting point is 00:26:45 Make them a tie and try to work it out from there because at least we're 10-2 in overtimes last year. You need those wins. those wins are what got them the division it's what got them home ice advantage but it doesn't necessarily give you an accurate portrayal of what the team they were pretty good in overtime against the Sens too they were pretty good time against the Sens I want to say uh Anthony Stollers

Starting point is 00:27:06 was absolutely unreal last night oh oh 10 bell saves sometimes if two three times in a row I thought it was strange that when his goalie mask fell off they didn't blow it dead and one of those I thought you had to do that I'm curious if that was a late whistle or if there's there's some sort a weird language where it's like if there's an imminent scoring chance continuation i think is what they call it yeah and there was an imminent scoring chance and he stopped it yeah um nice scores again opening the scoring for the leafs he's been unreal to start the year beef beef beef just go to the net willie's weird little shot pass it's it's weird it seemed too high to be a pass too weak to be a shot whatever it worked um one of my little bugs and i'm a big oel benoit guy

Starting point is 00:27:51 um i actually think they're a really great top pairing when they're on the ice i or top pairing bottom pairing i was like when they're on the ice uh my issue is that every game one one or or both takes a penalty except for nashville and last night again benoit takes a penalty and you go these and it's not like the penalties are great penalties to take you got beat and you got to pull a guy down or whatever it's stick in glove bullshit um and i i'm so i will be watching uh for the next little bit to see how many games we actually get of those two one of those two or both not going to the box i i they need to play cleaner games because the leafs need their other guys they're better guys to be in positions to make things happen on the offensive side and they need

Starting point is 00:28:38 oel for that too ben part of ben was usefulness in the leafs lineup is killing penalties yes um you know it's it's interesting because there was that high stick or delay a game call rather against detroit matthews goes to the box i guess they review it and they're like oh it was actually ben one ben one goes to the box and where'd the leafs get beat right in front and i'm like ah you need matthews but like god that's why benny's in the freaking lineup uh he's not gonna play every game if this keeps up oh yeah four points in five games i know he's been great on the offensive side i'm just begging them not to take penalties i am too jesse uh just on the stallers mask thing because i took me a second to bring up the article but luke fox's gamer from last night

Starting point is 00:29:22 his game article um was on that uh the staller situation in the mask because uh stallers was very open about wanting change for that rule so luke wrote um play can continue against a mask maskless goalie in an event of an imminent scoring chance. Stahler suggests the book could use a rewrite. Stahler said this is the second time it's happened. Happened to Aiden Hill the other night as well. So hopefully we can find a compromise. It's not like goalies are trying to knock our helmets off. I mean, without the buckle, you can't really see the puck. You can't really track or do anything. As soon as you move your head, it falls off. So hopefully the league can look at it and talk to some goalies or people who have knowledge of the position and we can come to some sort of

Starting point is 00:30:03 compromise where safety isn't put at risk there i think it's very interesting that you have an nhl player calling out the rule books it's not often that nhl players speak out against things you know maybe ignorant question but like can we fix these masks like can we yeah it seems like any direct hit it's popping off well you probably want that though because right want it to you don't want it to stay on maybe because it'll hook the head to the side or whatever you probably want it to fall and probably dampens the impact yeah that's what i mean all right yeah well no you're we're we're we're on the same track yes so i think just fucking blow it dead man you get the difference between now and like the 50s yes somebody will abuse it but the difference

Starting point is 00:30:47 between now and like the 50s and 60s when like jacques plant finally put a mask on was that they all had wooden straight sticks yeah and they could not shoot the way they can now one of those pucks hits you in the head you could die that's the end of it like that is straight up what it is so if a player on the ice a player player loses their helmet they got to get off goalie loses their helmet play can continue because there might be a scoring chance what so where's which which part of the safety are we looking at the reason that the play can continue with the goalie without a mask is because pucks are coming towards him yes because somebody else might take another shot so we need to continue this play so that you can face an imminent scoring chance so that means

Starting point is 00:31:32 the puck is coming at you without the math yes this is completely against safety and everything that makes sense just don't have mass like i uh i got big problems with the way that that rule is written as well and matthew nyes when in his post game scrum he said um i was a little scared to be honest like that like there's an nhl player he's defending his team and everything but like i was supposed to be tough everybody in that situation should be scared for a dollar this guy had a concussion four months ago yeah but again okay is this dangerous yes do we want to keep players safe yes are guys gonna cheat like crazy also yes you think a goalie is gonna shake off his yeah a million and that's when you have a ref call a penalty or even a penalty shot yeah yeah

Starting point is 00:32:26 i like a penalty batter penalty shots are bullshit i'll take a penalty all day over or the option yeah or the option yeah penalties decline it's gonna be in two minutes that's exciting isn't it yeah i understand the fan base like if it's if the rangers score there but it's called off because his mask is off let's say they change the i get them being mad about that i that yeah you should be mad about that because you would have scored if that mass stays on and there's a goal there yeah so maybe it's it's okay that the rules are written this way i just hope they blow it faster you know like don't wait for the leafs to gain full possession maybe if you just know that like the rangers aren't directly shooting it into the net blow it dead yeah because they took a couple

Starting point is 00:33:06 passes there and still has made a save and everybody after the game's like oh old school you made a save with no mask it's the 40s again yeah but it was actually really dangerous hey have you seen any of those guys faces they're broken they're broken i unfortunately we've lost a lot of them by now but like that that photo of terry sawchuck is absolutely insane i got to speak to john uh johnny bauer once in my life i got to ask him two questions and after the first one his top dentures popped out um these these guys like have have been through it um and but to me that play was how you know the rangers don't have championship dna because no no because they tried to score yeah you got to put yourself in the mindset of the florida panthers oh you should

Starting point is 00:33:57 kill the goal you tee it up and aim straight for the teeth yeah no actually eyeball between eyeball you're much more likely to kill them yeah you're trying to murder him yeah yeah whatever and then and then and then you play you know dark this is all a game of president you play your joker which is but i'm his friend and he's such we're such good friends he's one of our guys fuck off all right now uh let's talk about matthews and neilander in ot vintage matthews neilander play and i think i had to remind my wife of this she was like you know they talk a lot about matthews and marner and paula she's like they did play together for 10 years like i started i'm like no they didn't no they were banned from playing together for the first three and a half

Starting point is 00:34:39 years who did austin matthews play with have we all forgotten it's william nylander it's i felt i feel like they got it wrong the whole time babcock is like matthews and nylander play together mitch can fuck off keith goes austin and mitch play together willie can fuck off and by the time that actually berube always had mitch with matthew because i think that that was a player request ah they don't run the asylum what are you doing there's a very popular saying about this you have the craziest one-two punch on the right wing in the fucking league and you handcuffed yourself by not alternating yep why why anyway glad they connected they looked great uh how do you feel about that

Starting point is 00:35:34 i can't i know it's complicated i like to keep a level head i like to keep a level no like dude you can't score for like a week switch it up you have two 11 ish million dollar right wingers and the best goal scorer on earth and you're not even gonna tinker with it oh my god this organization well they they have to now now they're forced to it's sort of like when uh it's sort of like in your favorite movie the one movie you've seen money ball money ball where they trade a player so that art how can't play him steve watched money ball and was like okay i'm done yeah that's all the movies for my lifetime yeah well that was it i've seen a lot

Starting point is 00:36:19 movies have peaked at money ball i don't need more movies that is an accurate depiction of mark shapiro yep and uh that everyone involved is very happy with how they were portrayed no like they'll play cowan with matthews and nice and then in certain situations they'll put willie there and i'm like right on time boys by the way right on time worth noting cowan did not play in the third period he did ugly not ugly game ugly game hey rookie rookie rookie not his best not as bad it's interesting because i actually thought he made some of the best defensive plays of his career um on account of his three games yeah okay um but also a lot of give a lorenz going to be in it looks like tomorrow against seattle uh he should be i don't love him but who's coming

Starting point is 00:37:14 out well he was hurt that's why they wanted to just give him extra rest no but yesterday was well he was eligible they reported it as a healthy scratch which i didn't like because he's coming off an injury you know what i mean so he was cleared to play okay let's okay let's get to the real question which is what who's coming out who do you have an answer i have no idea oh i i i don't know what the lines are right now um i could look it up my guess my guess is robbie um and i'm not picking on him his game was fine uh yesterday robertson hit robertson i thought that was very funny so it's interesting matt matthews didn't practice he did do some skates before but he's taking a breather today like knee lander did yesterday uh they're playing a lot and

Starting point is 00:37:56 yarn croak sat between nize and cowen so we don't know it looks like it's gonna be yarn croak you think so yeah coming out really based on those lines would be lorenzo and joshua i thought he was very good robertson domi mcmahon michelli tavarez neilander nize matthew cowen based on those practices i'd like to see yarn croak domi mcmahon that's fun that could be i like i like mcmahon on the right yarn croak can play the left uh lorenzo joshua doesn't seem like a very good time uh for the other guys yeah that's interesting i don't i don't love yarn croak coming out but like there's got to be a rotation here blay hasn't even got into a game yet um and you have to give austin a shot at the rocket you know because if you leave yarn croak in there he's gonna steal it

Starting point is 00:38:42 from austin and you don't want that it's like it's like still lead the team no i know i think austin does now yeah oh because he is the two empty net anybody that took yarn croak in fantasy just had the best week of their lives and I would encourage you to drop him after this. Who on God's green earth took Yarncrow in fantasy?

Starting point is 00:38:59 Deep leagues, man. Deep leagues. I don't know. You got to have a 24 team league or something. I don't think anyone in his family took him in fantasy.

Starting point is 00:39:07 And if they did, they're in first. I would love to know if somebody took him and actually got the points for it. Like actually addressed him too. There's no way. There's just no way.

Starting point is 00:39:16 Anyway, so like listen, what do we take from last night's game? obviously it's game five or six i don't even know uh what do we take um uh they're a more organized team than the rangers i would say there's a lot of the rangers played nervous they played really nervous jumpy hockey and yeah as a leaf fan i would know i can already hear you screaming it i would know um it's good to see austin get his cookies willie's getting his cookies will he's up to nine points uh-huh i know some of those are on empty netters

Starting point is 00:39:51 i don't really care and i don't know he does he has seven and five nice has seven um they're both doing really well the big guys are performing you're getting a few depth performances which is nice stolars looks really sharp like overall if you just look at the individual pieces you're getting what you want out of the lineup are they still kind of disjointed yeah i tell you the player i'm cheering for the hardest every time he takes the ice just because i don't think he's playing poorly hold on jesse who do you think he's gonna say i don't know who is steve i don't think he's playing poorly i think he's doing a lot of good things and i just don't think it's going his way uh i am gonna say uh oh it's not are you gonna say nick roberts don't mean you're both

Starting point is 00:40:34 wrong matthias michelli oh okay all right i like the things that are going on when he's on the ice he works really hard and he's fighting it i think he's fighting it i think he needs to slow down a little um because he's had so many sexy setups that either haven't ended in a shot or a goal and one of them's gonna damn well go in and the building's gonna go holy shit who's this guy um it hasn't come yet and i hope it comes before he finds his way into the bottom six and potentially out of the lineup i agree okay don't you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life you know the same way you can skip an ad i get it i'm siaya and i live in ice cove i've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way i planned and today i'm

Starting point is 00:41:31 Still figuring it out. Somehow things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently, that's how I roll. So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Don't miss the new season of North of North starting September 8th on CBC Gem. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk.

Starting point is 00:41:59 challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer register today at pmcfwalk.ca um now we had a ton of requests to do this one specific thing and it's called uh and i've sent jesse the initial clip but we got a few uh because we're moving off the Leafs now welcome to Evan Bouchard corner uh I'm so excited it is the first uh so Jesse I sent you a a Twitter video and then I'm going to send you a YouTube video which has the rest of this stuff but I before we get into this uh specifically I can't look at the screen uh you can look at the screen it's no problem I want to read you what Evan Bouchard's coach and defense partner said

Starting point is 00:42:49 about him after the game so Chris Knobloch said Evan is one of the best defensemen in the NHL But tonight was not his night. Matthias Ekholm said, I'm sure he knows he could have made some other decisions tonight. Oi. Oi. Other decisions? Bouchard said, when it's not going my way, I got to find a way to make different plays. And I'm setting you all up for this because Mark Spector pointed out in his article,

Starting point is 00:43:16 games like this one are something Bouchard simply cannot seem to outgrow. and it will extinguish any hopes he may have of making Team Canada's Olympic roster in February because you know who was at this game? Oh, no. Who? Julian Briseois, assistant general manager for Team Canada.

Starting point is 00:43:37 And so you're going to see here, this is 344 in the first. This is not the first major giveaway of the game, but this is the first one that results in a goal and an eventual hat trick. So I have not seen this. so there's bo horvat and there is evan bouchard at the top at center ice and bo horvat merely just taps his stick and he is gone oh dear uh you keep calling him bo horvat but i believe that's matt

Starting point is 00:44:04 barzell oh is that barzell for that one yeah that's barzell sorry yeah barzell's already yeah my bad that's barzell stupid idiot uh the uh so here stop there yeah what where does bouchard go with this uh because this feels like a very he just kind of cuts in yeah why are you doing that all the islanders just in the middle of a line change flip it over them no don't go to ekholm yeah go to ekholm who goes to manjapani who goes for the easy zone entry and now you're cooking um here now that we know how this kind of plays out i'm gonna show you the zoomed in version because it's even worse maddie bring that off and i'll show you this one where you get the up close on just how terrible this move is so here you go so here he is bouchard and he tries to dangle

Starting point is 00:44:51 barzal here and it just rolls off his stick and he never has it look at his mouth hey i'm evan bouchard i'm gonna go just dangle barzal i'm gonna go right by him i'm gonna go a little right to left oh i never had the puck he never came with the puck on the move yep it never do need that it never stuck on his stick he never had it and barzal just picked it up he forgot the most important object on the ice and which is black which is what jesse the little black disc they call a puck ah it's crazy oh no anyways it's embarrassing that's not it no there's more that wasn't even the first one so jesse i have sent you the the highlights from the game i'm going to ask you to go to 27 seconds into the highlight pack oh that's not now when you get

Starting point is 00:45:46 a game in 10 on on the sports net youtube channel yeah you expect there to be like there's a face-off or a shot or something like that or an entire commercial break yeah that happened that happened to them last night yeah they left a commercial break people to edit stuff no ai can do it they make so much money that they should not have errors like that because people should be checking their content even if you have ai do it and have a human check it before it gets posted yeah nobody reviewed it yeah and i feel bad for them because now they're going to get blamed for it when really it's the people that don't employ enough people that are to blame it's just the toronto maple leaf sun the national rights holder

Starting point is 00:46:21 so so here's the uh because i bet i would bet a thousand dollars that the person who had to edit that video by the way uh is overtaxed in their job yes uh now let's let's go to this once the the ads clear so it's 27 seconds in jesse evan bouchard steven do not look uh uh evan bouchard what i showed you was a neutral zone play yes how about we show you one where he's behind the net And let me ask you this before I tell you, you know, that this is going to be a giveaway. This is very early in the game. First minute. Where, where is Evan Bouchard putting this puck where he ought not to?

Starting point is 00:46:59 Got it. Because the first one that we saw, that's, that's a puck rolled off a stick. That's a mistake anyone can make. Yep. That's not a true Evan Bouchard corner. Is this one a true Evan Bouchard corner? This is Evan Bouchard almost in the corner. What do we, where does he put this puck?

Starting point is 00:47:14 Right in front of his damn goalie. Wow. Crazy how you could just pick that out. jesse uh let's do a screen grab our way through this one so bouchard is behind the net and there's a number 13 for the islanders that's uh beau horvat right adam yeah he is is he is he notable in any way as uh matthew now okay now you're number two in this scenario steve jesse hell yeah what are your options um you could fire it forward ring it around the board yeah i don't know who's there backwards if you take a quick look and you got a couple players there you know

Starting point is 00:47:48 what i don't do i don't send it at stewart skinner well you can also just hold on to it for like a second longer like barzal's he's not really even skating towards you he's trying to pinch you as you yeah he's trying to cover an angle go farther and then but the longer you hold on to but the more you open up Dreisaitl. Right, which is who he tries to find. Poorly. Yes. And this is where we get to a scenario

Starting point is 00:48:16 where you're trying to find Dreisaitl and Dreisaitl is swooping in in front of Stuart Skinner. And what can happen when that happens is you maybe miss the pass or maybe it bounces off number 13, which is exactly what happened. It bounced off number 13

Starting point is 00:48:34 and you might see a number 21, And I believe it's over there. And that would be Mr. Kyle Palmieri, if I'm not mistaken. I think you're right. And that is an awkward spot for the. Oh, and there it goes. It's just it's so October Oilers.

Starting point is 00:48:50 Yeah, they just got a shutout. You know, you quiet down some of the Stuart Skinner stuff. You're feeling good about yourselves and you you're number one defenseman, one of the best scoring defenseman in the league, one of the highest paid defensemen in the league lays an egg against the frigging islanders who should be in the mckenna sweepstakes now that was the first mistake which led to a goal the second one is the one i showed you on camera right okay yeah and then and there's more and then before the third period ends jesse go to 434 of this video um and i'm sorry the scrub is not as good as it

Starting point is 00:49:27 used to be last season we will have to figure that out but uh this one is his third you're gonna have to get more descriptive yes third major turnover of the first oh and it's rich in net against the this should be how many people picked up skinner last night because they're like easy win i played him in fantasy did you and how'd that go uh i got a l couldn't have gone worse than me getting hofer the other day you get points for l's right how many else you get really i lost i lost i got 12 negative 12 points from joel hofer oh i'm dead like i was doing fine i'm dead i'm i have no chance to win this week okay now what do we get jesse got it here yeah yeah 434 434 okay so let's watch number two he is on the puck carrier top of your

Starting point is 00:50:14 screen near catelli protein and you can kind of see that oh he gets the puck look so here look he gets the puck this is 51 seconds to go okay gets the puck has the puck has options look there's trent frederick oh but he fell oh what is happening oh my god oh no what happens now that's that's a little unbouchard like right yes he's a good skater but look how many oilers are around him there's a play to be made here even from one's knees oh my god nobody nope there goes the puck and echo uh whatever but and uh i believe stewart skitter bails him out on this play yeah yeah He was not feeling it. You know, you had a bad night when they start showing the plays that didn't result in gold.

Starting point is 00:51:02 Yeah. Now, Jesse, let's go to 650 of this video. Yeah. Oilers on the power play. And, you know, sometimes this happens to the Leafs, too. Sometimes when you're on the power play, you're so focused on the offensive side. You get pinched at the blue line. You get you get passed at the blue line.

Starting point is 00:51:22 And you don't even know. Okay. Now, you know that Bo Horvat. Is it Bo Horvat? It is Bo Horvat. Got it. This is for sure Bo Horvat. Is a guy that also kills penalties.

Starting point is 00:51:37 He scores goals and kills penalties. That's why you got him. He didn't make a good Canuck, I think. Weird that they never had him. um i just want you to see this because you don't even you don't even see the the the defensemen either of them swivel their head because they don't know and it's evans guy uh so here we go uh you're gonna see the the the play now the puck in bouchard's you can look uh the but in bouchard's uh defense the puck is in the corner right there are three islanders down low when you are a hockey

Starting point is 00:52:13 player you gotta count right you do have to count that's a part of it i gotta know where everybody sort of is and look if you're watching this game and this is the only screen you see this is the clear play here for the islander player is to just dump it down that's uh pajo i think right but what's pajo do uh he's protecting the puck yeah and then oh and then a nice little shovel backhand pass to look at how far Horvat is ahead oh no he had no idea like literally no idea oh no and as great a skater as Evan is you're not catching Bo Horvat and you bet and he both scores that yeah this was a shorty right yeah you know Colby Armstrong this he was the first guy I ever heard this term from he talked about panic crossovers that's a funny uh yeah i think

Starting point is 00:53:08 you gotta go the other way i've never seen bouchard do that once no i've never seen him do that one here's the crazy part is we do this in the regular season yeah and he's known for his not bending his knees and stuff like that being a christmas decoration out there but in the playoffs i've seen him do it i've seen him be dialed and make defensive plays and be really strong and oilers fans going see we told you listen i get that but also there's this bless kale mccarr bless him because you you look at the points that bouchard puts up and you're like how can he not be on team canada oh thank you there's your tim hortons thank you kale mccarr blessed blessed be the card blessed be um kale mccarr could have just decided to be that he will win

Starting point is 00:54:01 the norris he didn't have to try to play good defense uh no what was the four nations six uh it was mccarr it was taves it was theodore until he was injured morrissey harley harley was a late edition sanheim and i think we're missing a righty in there pareko pareko evans is he seven no and and petrangelo didn't go no adam says quickly no i mean spec said it i don't need to say it uh well like okay we need someone to run the power play okay kale and then okay we need someone else it does like anybody anybody it was it's team canada they can all do it dowdy oh that's what you forgot dowdy pareko harley morrissey theodore mccarr sanheim taves that was their forename by the way i love that thomas harley is the rare canadian born in the united

Starting point is 00:54:59 states yes oh syracuse yeah what the look at that i didn't know that um that is a pretty solid defense unit i don't i don't know if uh they also it's cracking that they also won so you're you're not moving off those guys unless someone puts in a crazy performance oh canada hockey canada does love a good old confirmation bias any of these names there you're taking out for bouchard no are arguably morrissey arguably doughty you can't take doughty's no daddy's bit not they're not they're not taking winnipeg is going to come the entire city is going to come to ajax and burn your house well no so what i'm what i'm trying to remember is who was who were the six for the gold medal game because obviously theodore was hurt i can pull it up i don't think

Starting point is 00:55:45 morrissey played but i think he might have been hurt harley was playing i know that he was unbelievable harley put so i think it was either morrissey or sanheim so they had the chance by the way when petrangelo pulled out to get bouchard and they said no that's the thing they were already playing a guy short he didn't get an invite then someone got hurt they brought in another guy and it still wasn't bouchard yep dowdy harley macar pareko sanheim caves those are your so morrissey wasn't in there sanheim yeah those are your six who played uh for canada and harley had an assist now we're not done i yeah what i don't think he's cracking the roster is what i'm saying uh 919 this is a scenario where the oilers are trying to tie the game up

Starting point is 00:56:27 because yeah i don't know if you know this but bo horvat had two matt barzal had one it's crazy how much bo horvat's numbers come up and i'm just gonna give you a hat trick uh he had a hat trick oh son of a bitch so you know the answer and also he had a shorthanded goal and then he had a power play goal and then what was his third goal i scratched him for tavaris oh that sucks that's right that's an en so he had an sh a pp and an en and the reason he had an en will be on the screen and be available to you as... It's good. Oh, it's on.

Starting point is 00:56:59 Okay. Dying minutes of the game, Bouchard misses his man. And he is down at the bottom, by the way, if you're looking. He's got an opportunity here to head this off. But completely,

Starting point is 00:57:10 this is about body positioning. Look at what happens along the boards here. Look what happens. Evan, if he is a foot to the right, this Islanders player cannot do this. But he goes along the boards, Islander player swivels around,

Starting point is 00:57:25 fires it to one of his guys and all of a sudden we have a two-on-one on an empty net i want to say that used to be brock nelson's number the first few weeks of the season i'm like who the hell are all of you yeah i can look it up i think we're okay yeah holmstrom uh yeah so my point is uh it looks like it was jonathan drewan actually drewan was able to a new islander he was able to spin away team pass the puck up and eventually that ends up in the back of the net that is just flat out body positioning that's all that is and that's a game you should win like look at that it's the islanders it's their backup uh you're out shooting them 32 to 24 it's mcdavid and dry sidle versus big save dave that they've seen this guy they know what he's about hockey is obviously

Starting point is 00:58:09 such a team sport and it's so rare any one player wins a game and so rare any one player loses a game that's one where you can look and be like if you're if you have a mediocre night we win that game right and they couldn't even muster that that's brutal that's tough it's bad that is a tough uh that is the uh that concludes our first evan bouchard corner but first of many i'm sure uh throughout the season uh doesn't make him not a great goalie though edmonton don't worry it does make or not no evan bouchard's a terrible terrible goalie um if he were a good goalie he'd be paid to do it jesse in terms of timing how are we looking here because i want to make sure that we're we're rolling we're about an hour 50 total for the okay so all right so we had here's what

Starting point is 00:58:49 i was going to get to but you know these are just smaller things goalie fights in anaheim uh yeah the goalie's gotten to fight uh anaheim carolina great without that you can go look at up later oh my god sometimes the late night stuff i miss when i'm doing lfr that's crazy uh paul maurice did you guys see his face when the ref changed from this is a good goal to not a extremely funny funny guy extremely god i hate that he's hilarious um this is i wanted to just give you an idea of how insane some professional athletes are uh sam montembeau is a nut job um he knows pretty much every player in the league's handedness and what color of stick they use and so the person that interviewed him uh which i believe is i forget who i think it might be um

Starting point is 00:59:37 someone who covers the haps it's uh dretel stape i i've never heard of this person but here's what it is he said i pretty much know everybody's uh handedness and what color of uh tape they use uh the host says really what if i say crosby's like left black tape he's like okay uh what if i say david pasternak he's like righty black tape uh and he's like adrian kempe lefty white tape tyler sagan righty black tape nice lefty white tape frederick gaudreau freddy gaudreau righty white tape anze kopitar lefty black evander kane lefty black uh ryan donato lefty black he just just knows them i knew pretty much all the handedness the tape is that's psycho stuff that's crazy that's sicko stuff um out of san jose and i'm just doing quick hits here uh will

Starting point is 01:00:26 smith big willie style uh was moved to the bottom six in sharks practice because according to shang pang uh uh this is oh actually i'm wrong that is a parody i almost got uh oh no but he was moved so that's interesting i wanted to really and i want to hit one more thing two actually two more things jesse can we bring up the new utah mascot tusky i need we need to see tusky oh i've seen tusky and i gotta tell you i like tusky a lot tusky's back we're getting back to scarier mascots which you remember uh when i on the vip episode i introduced jesse and steve uh to the philly's original mascot the flying dutchman and his rat and they are from 1889 and they're terrifying yes i hate it tusky feels like one of those movies that's like a uh uh one

Starting point is 01:01:18 of those uh like friday night at freddy's characters where it's supposed to be a children's character but he's actually going to kill you right you know what i mean yes um so i i hear look at girl you are serving look at that look at that look at the the the hair the blue hair the attitude that and and the eyes are all black and and can i just say can i make a term even cooler by saying it at 37 that that photo is aura farming right there is it look at him he's aura farming right now he's aura farming that's serving that's not aura farming that's serving yeah can i have one piece of criticism for tusky overall a nine out of ten i have one i'm not i have one as well i'm not hating here i'm just saying you could have made a little better

Starting point is 01:02:04 i don't like how the bottom half is just man um you should have gone monster um like think of like gritty the bottom half is the mascot and then they're just wearing a jersey webbed feet gritty's a full commitment keep them they went with just hockey man with a head on it you should have gone like mascot the why is the body of a man and not of a tusky thing yeah of a mammoth yeah that's my only thing so eight out of ten i'm dropping you another that's uh that's misogyny uh nepotism uh he only got this job because tusky is a female mascot yeah it could be uh but they only got this job because they have a very uh famous uh brother uh in the league um and that's carolina hurricanes gm eric tusky that was bad that was bad no it's very good i think they i

Starting point is 01:02:55 think they uh gave up halfway through this mascot and they should have just kept going yeah they it's like hey we got the head done it's great but should we should we worry about the rest now we'll get that later in the summer with the head and then they just put a fucking hockey player yeah okay yeah so we got the logo what if we just did that yeah what if we just did that with like you know what my brother has a bunch of costumes from rejected blues clues characters uh i got one that i think will be perfect and they you know what it looks sick the jersey's sick i don't care i don't give a damn good for them they're gonna have uh i i think right now jesse they're listening to this segment oh what if we made their costume more

Starting point is 01:03:39 cumbersome they're like shut the fuck up it's crazy how carlton the bear is a full bear carlton even wearing a backflip in true bear fashion naked down there no pants yeah just no pants hell yeah uh now uh free balling it listen uh tusky's he's obviously got something to hide you know what i'm saying he's wearing pants uh now let me let me say animals don't wear pants people jesse mascot jesse last thing i think trunked up i think he's trunked up uh i think i found the coolest jersey in the ncaa and it is the fighting irish third jersey or special jersey this year now the fighting irish have one of the best logos anyway it's the irishman with the like let's go yeah notre dame come on but as ncaa hockey gains more prominence and it's gaining

Starting point is 01:04:29 very quickly uh we're going to start to see cooler shit like this and i love this take i think it's so cool this is one of those jerseys where you're like i just want to own it because it's cool i'm not even necessarily a fan of the school where do they play i have no idea i don't like i should know that why are you asking me that i know well i don't know you know some american adjacent stuff i think every american hockey fan is like you're a dumbass and i'm like well they probably play on campus somewhere i don't know yeah we got an arena on campus it is college sports can i look to my left you can't uh we oh there it is so he's got we got the fighting irish but this time he's holding a hockey stick and he's gonna do a slap shot i like it i love this jersey i like it the

Starting point is 01:05:14 only other thing you could have done and i'm sure it was pitched is uh just the fighting iris logo but there's gloves on the ice at his feet oh that's a good idea but then that makes the logo a little busy uh i i like this also probably you want to portray him playing hockey maybe not fighting maybe on account of i don't even think you're allowed to fight in ncaa but it's uh no that's that's excellent steve are you asking where like the arena is or like where notre dame is i don't know where notre dame is indiana yeah you could have given me all day oh yeah no idea interesting it's near south bend indiana i don't know what i would have said i have no idea fascinating i don't know where notre dame maybe that's a fun game we can play on some other

Starting point is 01:06:02 episode like where they play for time i give you the name of college football teams no idea universities in the states and you got to tell me what state they're in all the ncaa like i'm trying to think of the teams from march madness yeah any of the ones that don't have the place in the name duke vanderbilt duke that's i don't know where duke is carolina the rivalry with north carolina oh so i thought you were telling me they were in carolina yeah oh they are in carolina yeah yeah so is duke the name of the university yes duke university all all of them i don't know i don't know why why do i that's a fun game i don't know for the american listeners obviously oh yeah university of miami of ohio why are you fucking with me

Starting point is 01:06:50 baylor baylor um let's go with arkansas texas okay yeah baylor's baylor's uh in texas near waco yeah oh that's uh home of the waco team i want to move on there was some famous events that happened we don't need to go there that was part of the hesitation you know need to go there all right so listen we we promised you kevin mcgrann and we're going to give you kevin mcgrann one of the scariest media uh is joining us to talk about his new book with austin matthews right now Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters.

Starting point is 01:07:39 On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. Don't you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life?

Starting point is 01:08:05 You know, the same way you can skip an ad? I get it. I'm Siyaya and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned. And today I'm still figuring it out. Somehow things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently, that's how I roll. So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride.

Starting point is 01:08:26 Don't miss the new season of North of North starting September 8th on CBC Gem. so kevin kevin member of the of the dog pound here to scare players out of town toronto media um kevin uh we've got we will we will be asking you about that a little bit later but i i want to start with why you're here which is this book on austin and you know we were talking off the air i asked you how long it took so it was two years putting this together so from the time i signed the contract with simon and schuster to the time of the book launch was just about two years on the nose okay and i mean i i remember sitting uh like it was a book that i had in my head austin's young

Starting point is 01:09:11 life is so interesting and so different from anybody any other hockey player is a book i said i just need time to get it all out that's all i need and they said okay well we'll give you and they gave me like more than a year to write it and i thought oh i i won't need that much time right and i did like it's is there an author out there who ever hits their real deadline no well i hit i hit the deadline for everything i wanted to write okay and then they said but we need to include what was last season in it right so i just had to wait for like the four nations and the playoffs and the the marner trade and all that to happen before i could finish it right so there was a lot of like it it's done and now i have to wait for it to be

Starting point is 01:09:59 really done at what point in the process did steve's blurb on the back of the book come in oh you take credit i sure do i have a card reader in my back pocket 2025 did you deliver that on time steve he did he was okay oh yes i did it it was awesome it like it was a big surprise for me like this is my first book so i didn't really know what the process was but i've read enough books to know there's supposed to be a foreword by somebody and i was like who's gonna write the foreword for this and then i kind of i asked other people said well what really happens is you write the foreword and somebody puts their name on it okay i could get that so i was really i was very I got very, very close to, um, uh, Lou Lamarillo doing it.

Starting point is 01:10:44 Oh, that was so cool. And then the, the, my editor said, no, no, don't worry about that. Forwards don't really sell books. We're going to get some, some big names to, to read it and, and write a blurb for you. And that's really what's, what's going to matter. Big names. So who else did you get? Please tell me you, you, you were more ambitious.

Starting point is 01:11:05 Well, I thought Lou, through the whole process, Lou was, Lou was like one of the best guys to talk to about really right he was just he loves austin matthews he loves the family he loved everything about that story and you know he's lou's a big usa hockey guy and austin's a big usa hockey presence now so there was a lot and i i always got along with lou in in so many ways when he was the general manager in fact we're already off topic but that's fine that's that's That is what we do. I changed Lou. And so I don't know if you remember this,

Starting point is 01:11:41 but so I went for lunch with him maybe as end of the first season with him. Right. Okay. And I asked something like, Lou was sort of like, is there anything we can do differently? Is there anything we can do whatever? And, and I said, yeah, well, why don't you

Starting point is 01:11:56 release dollars and cents when it comes to contracts? Because like we all find out three seconds after you announce it. So why don't you just announce it? And he said, well, his first answer was, because that's what we've always done. And then he realized how that sounded.

Starting point is 01:12:14 And this wasn't an interview. I got home from that lunch. It was at 11. I got home from that lunch, and the Leafs, I think, had signed Callie Rosen. Callie Rosen. There's a name. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:12:27 And they released the terms of the deal. Whoa. And I'm like, I changed Lou. Yeah. and then he went to new york and immediately changed back and didn't even know it's players for his time in toronto he was like okay we'll be a little bit more graham's not here yeah yeah i got finally got away from a grand man that was tough that's uh that's so interesting that you would say he loves austin this story and i feel like that's an eye-opening revelation for a least

Starting point is 01:12:52 fan listening to this because you don't think that lou likes anything you know no he feels like the mob boss sitting in his ivory tower and he has no heart there so he's just all strictly business so it's cool to hear that you chatted with him about like an athlete he loves yeah and lou isn't i guess he's got that persona you know the godfather he knows where the bodies are buried he probably buried a few of them himself but he is allegedly he is a big sweetheart he will go to the ends of the earth for you right he he does things for people that will never his book would be a great book if you would ever open up and write i have a feeling he will never do that I don't think he will ever let the secrets out.

Starting point is 01:13:30 Right, right. I've heard from a few people that he is surprisingly cool, like when you talk to him. And that's people within the organization or people that deal with him on a regular basis. It's like he's a very engaging, warm individual. That's not what we saw. And, you know, it was so amazing with Lou and Kevin. I want to know if you can tell me about this a little bit. when you interview him on the record uh he was the master at giving enormously long quotes and

Starting point is 01:13:58 saying next to nothing oh he was he was brilliant at that it was much to our frustration it was kind of a thing where it's like you got to get the general manager's point of view or maybe it's a day where there's nothing happening and you just want to are you firing the coach or whatever those questions are that you'd come up with and he was the master of being eloquent and honest and not giving you anything you can hang a story on yeah he would be the second or third quote in the story not said lou lamorello general manager of the maple leaves so what is it like having that magical moment when you're like lou lamorello just said something he just said something consequential and relevant and interesting i have to use this what is that magical moment like well he said

Starting point is 01:14:41 something it's in the book uh i forget the exact quote but it was jesse find it right we were talking about um there's no index anyway we were talking about tanking for matthews right and uh he said something that i thought was quite eloquent he said some people say we did that i don't know or something along those lines so he was intimating that yeah they pulled the rug out from under that team sure at all we can all say it we all saw it happen in live in real time but for him to sort of half admit it was yeah it was but that's the most you're gonna get right right and so so it's interesting about about you know austin and lou and i think you know bringing it back to the book for a second that time was a pivotal change with the leafs you had shanahan who had come in and was

Starting point is 01:15:28 kind of overlooking things i remember like they wanted to re-sign dave boland and he ended up in florida it would have been one of his first moves and would have been one of the worst moves uh was it he didn't bowl and didn't play a whole lot after that um uh you know retains randy carlisle then fires him peter horacek era it's bad it's all bad uh they have these two young players out of those two years so nylander and marner that that come out of it and you know that first year with mike babcock they have a historically high floor for a last place team right they they've i think they finished with 69 points or something like that um and before austin comes in and before mitch and willie are really playing with the leafs this is an organization that has a quote

Starting point is 01:16:14 culture problem and i'm curious about your perspective on the 15 16 leafs and the change when austin and willie and mitch come in in 16 17 because it seemed like a complete turnover over that over that time obviously they kept some key players but kevin can you talk about what predated lou and austin and then you know what happened once they started well i really think it was the 14 15 team that had the issue the 15 16 team under babcock they were remodeling themselves and i think controlled demolition yeah but i i still think the players that were the remaining players like the the tyler bozak's and the james van riem's like some of the james Reimers they gravitated to Babcock they thought they he would be good for them and in some ways

Starting point is 01:16:59 he he really was it was the team before like um you know remember Peter Horacek and the give a shit meter right after the loss in New Jersey like that was like okay this team really doesn't like they're not pulling for each other they're they hate the media I think that was was that is that salute gate around there around that yeah right they handled things very poorly uh they handled losing poorly they handled the fans poorly they handled the media poorly it was it was always kind of weird because like phil kessel was a guy that was really hard to get to but if he had something to say he'd grab you around and he'd just tell you what was on his mind and you thought well thanks for telling us but you should really have said that

Starting point is 01:17:38 right like that's stuff with uh the tweets that had loophole and and and and uh insulting Dion's girl, Alicia Cuthbert. Oh, God. That kind of stuff, right? I remember that. That was all crazy. But they were, for whatever reason, they were just a terrible team.

Starting point is 01:17:59 Like that 13 team that lost, you know, it was 4-1. That was a fun team. It's the same characters, but they just all had gone sour. I guess every story has its arc, and it was time to move on from those guys. when they in that 14 year the next year they were in third place with with 14 games to go third place in the conference with 14 games to go and they missed the playoffs by a lot yeah like so they had the eighth overall pick that year so the the arc of that team the fans were sick of them they

Starting point is 01:18:33 were sick of each other they were they didn't like the coach the coach didn't like them you can't win with phil all this stuff was was bubbling around some of it really not fair to the players i think but they kind of were their own worst enemies in some ways and so then they changed the culture to that and you bring in you bring in you know what was that year seven rookies yeah all of whom quite a few so you change the culture like that and you have the the best of the the guys left over right the cadres the the riley jvr jvr had a great year with mitch yeah uh and then all of a sudden the whole narrative around the team changed to one of incredible optimism and joy and you really haven't seen that from a leaf fan base and maybe since the gilmore years right right and i and so austin

Starting point is 01:19:22 steps into that and obviously his and we don't want to ruin the book this is the fun part about the book but one of the things that you really loved and love about his story is how and where he got here like how did how did this all happen because you know we've heard the story like lightly which is you know a kid who happens to love hockey sticks around the arena all day and just tries to jump on the on the fake ice it's not even real ice um what is it about that part of the story that really sticks out to you as as truly special so so one of the things that you ever see the movie sliding doors yes no i have so basically if you if you the movie starts and uh there's two there's two outcomes you go through the doors or you don't you miss them

Starting point is 01:20:07 and then there's two different the whole movie is two different movies all you know and because a woman misses the sliding door or she gets it and it's like what happens i know the movie invented the term sliding yes yeah so you know she goes she she catches the train she catches her husband having an affair she misses the train she doesn't catch it right and then and then the the life that happens because of that right and i i kind of liken this book to that there's so many sliding door moments that made austin a maple leaf and in my estimation the greatest maple leaf of all time at least by the time he's done and there's there's you know mom has to meet dad obviously that's like that that goes without saying but one of the things is the winnipeg jets have to move

Starting point is 01:20:52 to phoenix in order for his uncle billy to take him to a game right that right that and then he falls in love with the game there otherwise it wouldn't happen he gets a skating coach his name is boris doroshenko he's the most innovative skating coach you've ever seen he doesn't even let the kids play with the puck well he's not his skating coach unless the iron curtain falls and he can leave ukraine for of all places mexico wow to become the head of the mexican ice hockey federation where his he meets he meets austin's dad and he begs him brian begs him to come to arizona and coach his son whoa right so there's these these incredible incredible moments that that if they if one doesn't happen we might not see austin matthews now i'll give him all the

Starting point is 01:21:43 credit he loved hockey he loves being on the ice he's often the first guy on the ice at practice he just he puts the work in but all these other moments add up to him being the player he is and then you've got the leaf things where if the balls fall the other way like if you remember the mcdavid the mcdavid draft the leaf ball was on its way up and it got pushed out of the way by the edmonton by the Edmonton ball it's like well I that Matthews wouldn't be a leaf McDavid would be I'd be right maybe a different book but there's there's these all these just weird little things that just happen that make make Austin Matthews right now the captain of the Maple Leafs right and so when you know uh and again I'm gonna I'm gonna skip timeline a little bit here because we

Starting point is 01:22:31 want to touch on a few different things uh first couple of years with the Leafs obviously under mike babcock you know there's the 40 goal rookie campaign there's the calder trophy um there's the you know excitement of making the playoffs i think on the second last game of the year that they beat pittsburgh yeah i remember that that was just unbelievable what type what type of person i mean he went to zurich which was a totally different thing to do made a million bucks which was smart uh so he comes into the nhl he probably made more in europe than he did in his first three years in the nhl aside but from bonuses yeah but when you know when he steps on the ice in toronto then what type of a player what type of a guy is he because he's a lot then a lot different than he

Starting point is 01:23:13 is now i would say in terms of play uh well in terms of player i mean he's more mature now he's bigger and he was a big guy big guy even then but i i the one thing that i like about his his outlook is that he wants the big challenge we were talking off air about about um players that don't want to be in toronto he wants to be in toronto right the pressure maybe there's pressure i never quite believe it but maybe there's too much pressure for some guys but the guy from scottsdale arizona he wants it and why does he want it i i think there's a i think it's an American thing. I think American athletes want to perform on the biggest stage and he recognizes Toronto as that biggest stage. I think Americans have that, have a bigger ego when it comes to

Starting point is 01:24:06 their own accomplishments. You see it in baseball, you see it in football, you see it in other sports, you see it in tennis, you see it in golf. And I think you see it with American hockey players more so than in the Canadian or the Swedish hockey players. I think Americans are driven that way uh and i respect it yeah i was gonna say like ego can be a bad word but like that's a compliment ego's a bad word in hockey for some reason i don't get it myself but i i only mean it in the best positive way right i think sometimes a lot of hockey players forget that they're also entertainers it's like at the end of the day people are coming in they're paying tickets to see you and perform and they're watching you as athletes but there's also

Starting point is 01:24:45 a role you play in this where you're on television you're in an arena and people are there to be entertained by your skill and your performance on the ice or whatever field you're playing on that's a problem hockey has right because when players start to do that they get poo-pooed so very quickly right so very quickly so you shouldn't be celebrating like like suban and montreal you shouldn't be where you shouldn't have your own youtube channel will you shouldn't wear nice suits pk suban right like they they have hockey has that problem of wanting it both ways of wanting good team guys who are humble and down to earth and outrageous and fun and and you know part of the the daily culture and narrative what's austin like i couldn't tell you you got

Starting point is 01:25:27 what we hear is is obviously we see what we see in front of the camera right yeah uh we know that there's a personality in there uh just you know the odd instagram post or something like that you're like oh yeah there's this what's he personally like well i think he's he's really quiet i don't think he's a larger than life personality at home he's not really a guy that that that seeks the party life you know he's very committed to his body into his athleticism uh there's a a true humility with him in a good way uh he does a lot of charitable works that go unnoticed he doesn't want the publicity i i have a whole chapter devoted to that and i wrestled with whether i should even put it in there because out of respect he doesn't want that publicity the

Starting point is 01:26:16 things he does for for cystic fibrosis and for sick kids hospitals his uncle billy died of cystic fibrosis and so he's always been sort of drawn to doing more for for people with cystic fibrosis and and he does a lot of really good stuff in this city um for it i i did put it in there because i think it it presents a side of his personality that is beyond uh you know i mean i guess you see him with justin bieber at ufc fights and stuff like that yeah yeah and that's that's what we latch on to in an instagram culture but there's there is a there is a more of a depth to him of wanting to at least honor his uncle billy some of it was out there um i was visiting sick kids a few years ago and they're like yeah austin comes in here all the time like just unannounced and they told

Starting point is 01:27:03 me that and i think they were taken aback by the look of surprise on my face like i think they just thought that was out there and everyone knew that like it was just something he always does yeah and and some i mean i contacted a lot of people over for a lot of things but some of the people that that run the programs they were a little reluctant to talk about it too because out of respect for what he wants but i mean there's enough families that he's whose lives he's touched that they were like just effusive in their praise for the things he does behind the scenes what a guy I I uh I want to know the different Austins you've seen under the the three different coaches that he's had so there's the Mike Babcock Austin Matthews there's the

Starting point is 01:27:46 Sheldon Keefe Austin Matthews and now uh Craig Berube Austin Matthews how do they differ obviously you see a maturing adult but beyond that um you know interactions with the coach what was what was his relationships like with those three three well I mean I think at first with with Babs he was just you know the respectful young kid who was going to do whatever the coach said i think he like the rest of us got a little tired of of the bad show um with keith i think it was more collegial like i think keith was a little overwhelmed by the talent that he had in front of him for his first job not just not just matthews but the whole group was great group was outrageously talented uh and fun to watch and so i think that's where austin sort of leans more into becoming a leader

Starting point is 01:28:32 under keith and and now you can sort of feel like he i last year as captain he did things that were very captain-y but he also did things that sort of suggested maybe there's an awkwardness with with him taking over the captaincy from from taveras and both still in the room sort of thing i kind of felt sometimes they didn't want to step on each other's toes a little bit and you can't have that you need a leader and i think this year he's emerged more as a leader and i think part of that is uh craig berube's simple directness not just with him but with everything he approaches you always feel like you're getting the straight goods from craig berube and i think that's empowered austin to be to speak the straight goods as well you were talking about the captaincy and

Starting point is 01:29:15 and what was that movie sliding doors yeah glad one one moment because this is a conspiracy theory i subscribe to i think when the leafs were going to when the leafs ended up naming John Tavares captain. I believe 100% they were going to do Austin. Um, but then the controversy broke with, uh, the, the stuff in Arizona where he was mooning a security. Well, when I was saying he doesn't really seek the drinking life, that was the one, the one thing that stands out as like the one night he got drunk, look what happened. Right. So I'm curious, like how much, how much, uh, do you, do you get, that's got its own chapter. And I, I kind of wondered like, how am I really going to

Starting point is 01:29:54 approached us like what do i think of austin matthews a doing that b how he handled it c the the the fallout from it and and uh and i i reached out to the woman uh and she didn't want any part of it which is fine that's i i can respect understandable um uh so he does this thing he moons a security guard who's an iraqi war veteran which is probably not a really good way to go um doesn't tell the team that's the part that always puzzled me yeah he had an agent right judd moldaver i think was his agent at the time they you kind of think that that leaf security team is pretty good at making things go away and i guess they thought that would just go away on its own and it doesn't break until like a week before they're going to name captain and i'm with

Starting point is 01:30:41 you like i'm not sure that that it was going to be you know we were speculating at the times that Morgan Riley is a logical candidate. John Tavares is a logical candidate, but so is the best player on the team. Yep. And, and I kind of think I'm with you that if he was a candidate that erased any chance,

Starting point is 01:31:00 he was, he's going to get that captaincy that day. It still might've been Tavares cause you know, that might've been a side deal to, you know, we'll come play for a year. We'll make a captain. Like I can get that conspiracy theory too,

Starting point is 01:31:12 but that, you know, and then, you know, when he's, when Matthews is sort of apologizing, In the days after it's revealed, he does a terrible job of apologizing. He just stumbled over his words.

Starting point is 01:31:24 He didn't, you could tell he didn't, he was just trying to say anything. Later, when it gets all settled in court, he does a much, much better job of taking ownership of that particular issue. I mean, that's a highly embarrassing thing to have revealed about yourself that you did that. That was like probably as stupid a thing as you could have done, or certainly in the limits of being that stupid but i thought like he had a good year and you know he he paid the price for it if you will from his reputation and then he he brought his reputation back by being a good hockey

Starting point is 01:32:03 player and a good human being and if you remember at the end of that year he was nominated for the lady bing right so he didn't win it he was nominated for the lady bing so the way i sort to conclude that paragraph if he might not have been totally forgiven for it but it certainly was forgotten by a lot of people so he we all moved on from it i think fairly quickly including him and and obviously the woman too sounds like it would have been probably just too early anyway like if he was a candidate i mean that we'll never know shows it yeah yeah well i mean yeah obviously if he's doing that uh another aspect of all that so dubas was gm and i think he was recently appointed gm do they tell lou if lou's still there do they dare have something like that

Starting point is 01:32:50 happen and not tell you talk about your sliding door moments yeah lou lamarilla had been general manager instead of kyle dubas like there's a sliding door moment right there everybody's playing for a lot less right and willie's probably playing in sweden for a season yeah right like the more time passes the more the more i'm like i wonder what happens if that's the door you open instead were you able to gain cal dubas's perspective on his tenure as matthews's boss no so uh the um i i think this was all kind of driven by the matthews camp the agent judd they didn't really want the book written they thought it was too early in his career for a book like that and i can see their point of view um so i never really encroached too much

Starting point is 01:33:37 but the answer i got from kyle was that it's uh maybe later but not right now oh wow so so he shared those feelings as the moldaver and well judd more or less let me know like they weren't going to stop me from writing the book they weren't going to stand in my way but part of that quid pro quo was i wasn't going to continue to bother that particular camp i wasn't going to bother the mom and the dad or things like that i would go further further out and i kind of like that like if he's got a a more interesting story or a more personal story to tell at the end of his career great i'll read it i'll buy it maybe i'll go straight it i don't know but this was my this was my this was my take on his life and i kind of preferred it that way to be quite honest

Starting point is 01:34:21 with you because it gave me a lot more freedom i think those perspectives are important because you can like have a documentary done on somebody if they're involved you know that they're creating in a way where they want themselves to be shown in a little bit of whitewashing or whatever like glossing over of of some of the nastier details exactly let's not even talk about this right no no yeah just in general sense but when you get that from the third party perspective yeah you get this perspective that i think is the most honest and how things played out and i also think that so the book starts with the four goal game in ottawa basically how did he get here and i think his comments the night he scored four goals are more interesting than his comments 10 years later

Starting point is 01:35:02 talking about scoring four goals in the game right i think right right it's more honest here's what he said that night or the next day or here's what people were saying right then and i think that brings you into the moment more so than oh yeah i remember that game yeah i got four goals right how do you how do you choose the cutoff for a story that's still being written right like he's still playing well obviously that that was an interesting one as i'm writing going what is my ending yeah how do i end this right because so uh i'd written most of it um i now forget so it was august when he got the captaincy from oh boy i think it was 2024 yeah yeah two augusts ago right so i'm like i'm coming to the kind of the end of the book and i know i might have to write the next

Starting point is 01:35:51 season but i don't have an obvious ending um and and when did he sign his extension two years ago so he was was he already captain when he signed the extension i don't believe so i think it was two years i think both things happened around the same time both things happened around the same time right um at any rate i was at a cottage i was on vacation and i get the note austin's gonna be named captain tomorrow and i went i got my ending i raced down to toronto and i took in that in that thing austin as captain of the maple leaves and that was kind of the ending and then had to write his year as year as a captain right so he signed august 23 2023 okay that makes and then a year later i think he was right it was it was 24

Starting point is 01:36:45 that's why simon and schuster would commit to the book because they they knew he would be a leaf when it was released ah okay it's it's at that point the contract extension was the end uh and what anything that happened after but then when he became captain it gave me like a finish almost like an epilogue kind of yeah because he's gonna have his name up in the rafters he's gonna have the all-time leading goal scorer for toronto maple leaf in history but it's it's funny you gotta you gotta cut it off somewhere you know because you just keep going with this and they're i mean something interesting happens over the next the rest of his time with Leafs

Starting point is 01:37:18 there's another chapter or a rewrite or something God, I hope something interesting happens A Stanley Cup would have been a good finish What's that again? Kevin, I Old wooden ship Don't you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life? You know, the same way

Starting point is 01:37:34 you can skip an ad? I get it I'm Siaya and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned. And today, I'm still figuring it out. Somehow, things usually get worse before they get better.

Starting point is 01:37:50 Apparently, that's how I roll. So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Don't miss the new season of North of North starting September 8th on CBC Gem. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto

Starting point is 01:38:10 for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. The book, by the way, is called Austin Matthews, A Life in Hockey by Kevin McGrane.

Starting point is 01:38:33 You can find that anywhere you get your books. But Kevin, I want to switch gears here and talk to you a little bit about playing here. Because you mentioned you think part of the identity of, you know, Austin being an American, Americans are raised to be a little bit more brash. I know that specifically like my mom's an American and, you know, the way that she would talk to me on how to handle situations is much different than my Canadian dad or my friend's Canadian parents. And it doesn't sound like it's a huge deal, but they are not. Americans are not afraid to put themselves out there. That sort of seems to be part of the culture.

Starting point is 01:39:11 And I'm curious about playing here and embracing that spotlight versus so many people who don't. Now, we know the Mitch Marner stuff, it's pretty obvious. He didn't like the media. He didn't like the way he was covered. I don't even know if it was him so much as it was the people around him that certainly seemed to have a problem with it. But I think about a guy like Ryan O'Reilly, who was traded, scored a couple of big goals here in the playoffs, from what I can recall, was a valuable piece of the team. They wanted to keep him. They offered him a comparable deal to Nashville. Obviously, they got the tax free stuff down there, but he made pretty clear on the way out that, A, they needed to emphasize the core four.

Starting point is 01:39:52 He said that. And B, the the media was too much for him, too. and he grew up a Leaf fan you guys don't seem to me and that's why we make the joke like the scariest group of people like if I were to put you and Mark Masters and Terry Koshan and Jesse sitting at the end of the desk there and um Chris Johnson and Sean McKenzie whoever else you is going to show up at Leafs practice and training camp whatever James Myrtle um what is the what is the deal like i don't understand where this fear and this this uh animosity comes from like i understand the occasional like steve simmons will come out and shiv some guys that's steve that's what that's his point of view he's not the only steve that does that 100 yeah there's a few

Starting point is 01:40:39 it's a steve thing it must be in toronto maybe but what is it kevin the what why is that why is the spotlight so bright here uh for so many players what's the deal i think it's the lamest excuse on the planet and i don't know where exactly it comes from i don't really think it comes from the players or their agents at all okay i think it i think it's almost fan induced i remember i i criticized willie uh one time on on twitter in a rookie camp or something like that right because i just didn't think the effort was there and i thought a rookie should be really showing effort right of course and and we can still criticize him for that to this day i got all kinds of hate this is why we can't have good things in toronto it's like really like i just

Starting point is 01:41:22 don't i just like as we were saying off the air like it never seems to bother you know the yankees all those years play in the biggest market those are the dodgers right now um it never bothered man united to be in the biggest basket golden state i said basketball for man yeah uh but it doesn't bother it doesn't bother players at wimbledon when they are you know it doesn't bother them at the u.s open rider bother them at at the masters the fan like the this list is getting pretty long right why should it bother a canadian hockey player i don't know like it seems like a pretty maybe we're we're weaker we're not as mentally we don't have the mental fortitude or maybe that's what it tells me if you think this guy left because of the media then he

Starting point is 01:42:07 doesn't have well i mean they've made it clear that's why marner left i mean that's part of it anyway right i mean that they i find it amazing there's even the reports though that he's like he's found it so refreshing that there's so much less media scrutiny i have i have more respect for any player that wants to play in the big market and succeed than any player that goes to a market to be anonymous and succeed but but then where where does any canadian hockey star want to end up and shine the brightest the olympics yeah right and oh no one covers those like so it's i just i can't i can't understand it and no one no one was looking at the torino team which is like a notably really disappointing canadian olympic team and they go well it was just the media in torino

Starting point is 01:42:50 right i think you i think you're going down the uh you're barking up the right tree with the fan stuff and how the players are reacting to that because a lot of what i think marner talks about when he's upset with the media is fan driven you know it's it's the people who are harassing him in in ways that the media would never do because there's a lot of respect between adults and professionals who are in that room asking him respectful questions and when he's complaining about the media scrutiny what he's really talking about is the unhinged fan perspective you know yeah and i don't and the players always couch it as the media doing those things when it's just the outliers the players say it like mitch would say the media and it's like us like i don't

Starting point is 01:43:30 remember saying anything like that mark masters didn't harass you at your home you know yeah yeah uh yeah it's it's a it's a perplexing one to me i think it's a lame i think it's a lame narrative i think it i i think in martin is a little bit different because i i think he had so many you alluded to this so many people around him telling him what people were saying about yeah whereas you know the guy from from uh the guy from stockholm has his brother right yeah the guy from calgary from calgary yeah the guy the guy from scottsdale his mom and dad might be in town but that's about they don't have a whole bunch of people like oh here's what that grew up can you believe that they said this about you yeah yeah but the guys from toronto do have or the

Starting point is 01:44:16 guys from southern ontario and ryan o'reilly's case probably do have um more people feeding them the bad stuff what's what's the vibe around the team now versus last year to you i just i kind of feel like they well i hate to use this because it's a cliche but they're like just trying to figure themselves out really like they're i don't think they're really i don't think they know what their identity is i know what they want their identity to be i don't think that they are they are there yet i think some of the the new players are still kind of having trouble i think there's a chemistry issue on pretty much every line um and i think they're they they will figure it out like i have a certain amount of faith that this fourth line will be the best fourth line we've

Starting point is 01:45:04 ever seen it might be already honestly well they just need wada win some face-offs right yeah not trusting him to do that right yeah the defensive specialist can't be trusted in his own zone so there's some there are some there are some issues surrounding that i was lamenting last night they they were remember the days when david camp would take the opening face oh god in three-on-three. You've stuck a rage about that, Kevin. It's funny with the two teams.

Starting point is 01:45:29 Because he would win the face-off. With the two teams last night, there's so much turnover on both of those organizations over the last year, especially with the Rangers, you know, new head coach, new bunch of players.

Starting point is 01:45:39 And it takes a while to find yourself. And it takes a while to get to play a team game. So I feel like we need to give the Leafs a little space to find out

Starting point is 01:45:46 who they're truly going to be in this next season or this current season. What I found really, really fascinating is like through most of training camp, they kind of look like okay some guy's got to get up to speed but berube was so happy with scott

Starting point is 01:46:00 lawton yeah just incredibly happy with scott lawton and i was i like scott lawton i think you and then he gets injured and because the fourth line center gets injured all the lines have to i do not get it the whole line everybody in a blender entire plan is gonna have the window Well, it's like, you know what, man, we better go back to Domi Robertson. And I don't think that, listen, I know that they're, they can eat, you know, the Buffalo Sabres alive, no disrespect to Buffalo, but they did kick ass last year, the Preds, whatever. But the, that is not a line that you're like prepping for bigger things.

Starting point is 01:46:39 That's not a line in the playoffs you're going to, because you want to. Right. And, and they've looked good, but that is not like, we're not rolling those out against the senators or the Panthers last year. so where it can be helped so i'm wondering what that what that is too is it scott lawton that pivotal to the team well he had good chemistry with with steve lorenz who's not even playing yeah yeah and and easton cowan was was fitting in there in a smaller role where he could just sort of energize the line so that's really their fourth line that line seems like ancient history yeah it's so crazy that was never seen yeah we got what two pre-season games and they were good

Starting point is 01:47:16 Yeah, so I think the removal of Scott Lawton just threw them in, like all the preparation they had done was thrown out the window, they had to re-prepare. And I mean, they'll figure it out, right? Like Nicholas Raw is an NHL player. You can see when he's playing that he can do a lot more than just play defense. Like there are some moves he's got, right? I like him. Yeah. But at the same time, they have to mesh with each other.

Starting point is 01:47:43 and it does to me feel like when i saw when i saw domi between mcmahon and robertson and they just flipped them robertson was now the left winger and mcmahon was the right winger for some reason i thought that's that's the dna change that you said that exactly yeah no he's quoting the show back to us now you say this thing these things because it means like okay we're on the right line we're talking about because you see the exact same stuff i was wondering what's your read on berube because i found him he doesn't give you much he'll tell you very directly what he's thinking but he doesn't give you much in those words like when you ask him about like hey why did you make the decision he'll be like because i want a north south game i want somebody's going

Starting point is 01:48:27 to go chase the puck but there isn't much details behind those words what's your read on him well right now he's protecting easton cowan like if you're there last night and i asked why did you sort of not play him in the third period and his answer was i was just looking for some common line combinations and in my head i'm going line combinations without easton right yeah how many giveaways last five five giveaways last yeah oh you can count yeah that's bad so i mean he's like and he should protect easton count easton counts are going to be a big part of this team's future and if he's having a bad game well you don't want to shake the confidence you want to bring him out you also don't want to make him the focus of the conversation so i think i think craig i think the

Starting point is 01:49:06 world of him i think he's really really smart he may not come across as as like the most erudite man in the world but he knows everything that's happening on the ice yeah and he knows how he wants his team to play and he knows the ways he can make them play and when they fall flat he just it's frustrating because i feel like when he's talking he knows more than what he's giving everybody he does you can see him stop yes right and i'm like just say the thing please but he's so he's such a great hockey mind and i he's never giving it up to the media because he knows what he should say and what he shouldn't and the details of the finer things of the game so he keeps it so simple it's genius i i have a a little uh a little anecdote about him so in a road trip

Starting point is 01:49:53 last year early in the season like it was like november the florida tampa one um he he did his scrum and uh and then he left and i followed him out and i didn't mean to follow him out because willie was coming in after and and i i'd forgotten and and i'd fallen about and he turned to the pr guy and he said oh i think i did pretty good on that one so he's sort of aware of what his relationship is and what a relationship should be and how we should come across yeah um and i i i really do i i think he's he's the right coach for this group i think uh he's i i don't really particularly love berube hockey i can't imagine 82 games of slugging it through the mud but i think they'll be the better team at the end of it all and they've now got like a full season behind him

Starting point is 01:50:45 of his expectations and their expectations of him. And I think they're all going to be a little bit more on the same page. I don't think they were disconnected last year, but this year, even more so. Well, it's the second year of a coach, right? The systems are a little bit more ingrained. I have one more question.

Starting point is 01:51:03 I'm sure the guys do too, but I have one more question before we wrap this thing. And so what was your first season covering the Maple Leafs? First full season was 2006-07. 2006-07 but i and i've done it on and off for from yeah for years years decades before that so i i i want to know when was the last time the leafs had a power forward option like matthew nye's in the lineup well i guess wendell was pretty and and dave andrewchuk was was a pretty i think dave andrewchuk would probably be the best power forward they've ever had that's pretty damn far

Starting point is 01:51:38 back man yeah yeah i mean gary roberts fall into that category at all or i suppose not i think nize at 22 is better than roberts at 35 yeah right because gary was getting on jvr was a pretty good power forward like he was pretty hard to move in front of the net and he could skate like they there are similarities i think nize will eclipse jvr but jvr was pretty good in that position that's top 100 maple leaf of all time jvr no yes as he gave up 21 for 25 that's right that's right a big reveal that night that was uh man i forgot he wore 25 yeah that's right that's right so next year is going to be 20 years full season this would be my 20th season this is your 20 this would be the 20th season yeah so then your perspective on like the

Starting point is 01:52:25 organization as a whole is so unique because like you're in there i go back i covered harold ballard yeah yeah right yeah i mean lance did it more on at lance hornby of the sun did it more on a daily basis but i was there from i i started in sports in 89 wow yeah so i moved around a bunch of sports i'd love to have just i was there i was there for gretzky's greatest game i covered that one game uh what was that game seven in 93 oh my gosh i i would love to have you and lance on at some point and just have a harold ballard episode and all ballard stories but but continue sorry oh i was just gonna say like you in in the room all the time in the organization in those buildings watching everything shift around you but you're kind of the constant you know going through it

Starting point is 01:53:08 how do you feel about like the maple leafs as a crest like do you have is has it been like something where it's like a love-hate relationship is it kind of a standoff because that's my job are you still passionate about it where do you sit right now well that's that's a real interesting question i don't think i've really thought about the crest as the crest i mean i know it matters to players so i will ask that question of them how did it feel to put that jersey on for the first time uh i'm not i mean i when i started in sports i had a veteran's hockey writer come over to me and said you're not a fan anymore you're a fan you're not going to do this job um and so i've stopped being a fan in in that very instant because i wanted to do this job

Starting point is 01:53:47 so i don't have i don't have an affinity necessarily but i do get why the players do Like I get the history of the team. I grew up a fan. Uh, so I, I get all of these things. The, the, my brother was a, uh, was a Canadians fan. So I, I kind of, you know, that little rivalry is always going to be the rivalry. Um, uh, but you know, the, the way the team has changed over the years, I mean, they were a joke of an organization for a long, long time. from from harold ballard and punch him like kind of ruining a very good late 70s team to an 80s team that would punch above its weight in the playoffs right oh they them in detroit or them in minnesota would be who's going to get 59 points who's going to get 60 and then upset the chicago blackhawks and go on a run right like they they would punch above their weight in the playoffs but they were like terrible hockey um and then like the cliff fletcher era really changed the organization into being professional.

Starting point is 01:54:44 Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment comes along shortly after that and turns it, well, it was always a money-making venture. It was always the Carlton Street Cashbox, right? So, you know, that was Ballard's legacy that he could put a terrible team out there and it would always sell out. And so he didn't have to play for players so he could let them go to the other teams in the WHA and things like that. The worm turns for me with, um, with Tim Lewicki and he brings in Brandon Shanahan and Shanahan brings in Lou

Starting point is 01:55:14 Lamorello. And up to that point, um, from a storytelling perspective, from a journalist perspective, you could call anyone in that organization and have it, have them tell you things. Wow. Wow. Just tell you anything, right?

Starting point is 01:55:26 And, and you could write it or just keep it for later or whatever, just anyone in the organization. But from the moment Lou takes over, silence. I mean, there was a point. i i kid you not i've been meaning to ask kyle about this so that you could not kyle was assistant general manager at the time you could not he could not speak to you they had to file reports to lou if any media person ever approached kyle approach and one day i bumped into kyle at the

Starting point is 01:55:57 corner of young and adelaide a red light i said hi light turned green kyle literally ran across the street Lou had him scared so uh Justin Fisher and I are our social lead back in the day we had um uh we had a radio show at U of T Scarborough and when Dubas was named I think it was GM of the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds uh we had him on and he's he's only like a handful of years older than us three four so it was really cool having this 25 year old on he was 25 when he was named gm and we were like 21 uh something like that i'd run into him at a few games and we had spoken like we had we were acquaintances at very least like we sort of knew each other during that little uh blip of time that you might remember where i was covering the marlies and i

Starting point is 01:56:54 was sort of becoming a little bit more regular it's the closest i've ever been to like being on a beat um the marley signed someone out of the whl i think it was someone named like tyler wong and it's the kind of story you would only give a damn about if you were a hardcore Marley's fan or covering the Marley's looking for an excuse to write about the Marley's I go to uh to leave practice I wait for Kyle he comes out does not make eye contact and just goes what do you want to know I ask him a few questions and he just pointed to the press release for this player the hardcore hockey fans are listening to the show no one remembers who this person is and and he just pointed to the press release and then he just turned around and walked away

Starting point is 01:57:42 and that was it lou lamorella had that guy scared shitless wow it was the weirdest thing and then and then they kept it up after lou left yeah right like they kept that sort of structure of the coach speaks for the team general manager speaks once a year twice a year whatever and i always thought that was a it made it it made everything he said amplify more because absolutely right it's a little and now with keith pelly running the organization i i kind of feel like they're peeling that back a little bit like tree's spoken three or four or five times already and when he speaks more it's just more casual it's just interviewed him last week there you go right he's like i'm just talking to the scrums at the right we'll just say tree's gonna talk all right

Starting point is 01:58:26 we'll go talk to him i really didn't have anything to ask him but i'll gladly listen yeah you know uh so i think they're they're peeling back the layers trying to be a little bit more uh media friendly i don't know if you'd notice this yet in on on television it's something to watch for fewer players at the backdrop more players at their stalls yeah i noticed that and i think that's just a subtle sort of we're just guys we're just okay we're not special like we're not to be exalted okay got it yeah okay that's okay this is great so uh any other questions guys or yeah no i just want to say like as somebody who loves sports and sports media and work in this business i appreciate people like you because like the crest changes the ownership changes the

Starting point is 01:59:10 literally change buildings but like the sports media people who are there for 30 plus years like you're a constant and you're gonna tell the best stories about these teams because everything's changing around you but you're kind of the through line through the whole thing you're the mountain it snows it rains but you still you're still there when you write a book like this about austin like it's going to be a treat for every hockey fan who cares about this team and because you know this team inside and out because you've been there through the whole thing so thank you for writing this book it's it's going to be a good read well thank you for the kind words and thank you all for having me on here this is this is a lot of fun well it's a great way to spend a day about time

Starting point is 01:59:46 We had you on. Thanks, Kevin. All right. Cheers, everybody. The Steve Dangle Podcast. Follow the guys on Twitter at Steve underscore Dangle, at Adam W-Y-L-D-E, and at Jesse Blake. Connection complete.

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