The Steve Dangle Podcast - So Here We Are | November 13, 2019

Episode Date: November 13, 2019

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, Adam Wylde's forgets his baby and Steve and Jesse argue (00:00), who wore the crown? (12:00), do the Leafs really start slow? (18:00), Michael Hutchinson has been sent down (22:30), the Leafs play the Islanders tonight! (41:00), the Los Angeles Kings have kick started the rebuild (51:00), is it time for the Devils to start their rebuild (1:10:00), what do we think of Colorado's stadium series jersey's have leaked (1:21:50), the NHL GMs are meeting to discuss video replay (1:24:30), and we discuss the fallout of Don Cherry being fired from Coaches Corner (1:29:00). Originally aired: November 13, 2019 Watch the full episode here: https://youtu.be/J3GCHDdbAEQ Merch: https://teespring.com/en-GB/stores/fancydangleshirts Follow us on Twitter: @Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram: @SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Subscribe to us on iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/steve-dangle-podcast/id669828195?mt=2 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do I fan off? Steve wants the fan off. The fan! Oh, the fan. Panago Pizza presents S.S.D.P.P. The Steve Dangle Podcast. With your hosts, Steve Dangle, Adam Wilde, and Jesse Blake. Let's go!

Okay, is everybody having a fun week? So good, so nice and quiet. It's great. And chill. Nothing's happening. Nothing has happened. Really good comment sections all over the place Especially on Facebook

Oh yeah There's been nothing said on Facebook this week So many A lot of really well done memes That don't look Talk of the prime minister Is it weird to you Or at least for me that I'm so thrilled that the

Houston Astros story came out Just today so we can move on from something The Astros stealing signs with cameras Man that's great And John Boy, who I want to say I brought up, I love his baseball videos. He's a, I don't know, YouTuber, but he also puts the videos on Twitter or whatever you want to call him. That guy's a star now, especially after last night, because the story came out about the

Astros stealing signs, and he went, all right, let's take a gander, and he went back and he found the games, and sure enough, clear as day, you can see the pitcher's about to throw a changeup, and you hear bang, bang. Throws a fastball, you hear nothing. Unbelievable. Straight up brazen cheating. And, like, stealing signs is obviously a thing. Is that cheating, though?

It is. It's illegal. It's against the rules. With a camera. With a camera. It's one thing you've got a guy standing on second base. Because that, to me, is, like, that's gamesmanship if you're standing on second base. Why would you ignore what's in front of you?

It's true. Right? I mean, you play baseball, Jesse. Your thoughts? Yeah, well, stealing signs is definitely a thing. Like, if you're standing on second and you can see the number of the fingers that go down in the catcher, then you definitely try and relay it to the batter. Like, it's definitely a thing.

It's just, I like it because as time goes on, we just realize how terrible the Houston Astros are. Right, and they were the total organization. And they were everything everybody was striving for, and now we're just like, they're kind of pieces of shit. Yeah. Wow. Crazy. Hey, listen. I just want to say a quick shout out to somebody.

I have apologies to make to Steve and to Jesse and to another co-host from another show, Jack. So essentially this, when you have a child and this will happen to you from time to time, you will get into what's called a jam. And both of you will forget that you're working. My wife went back to work at seven weeks. I don't suggest that you have to do that. It was something she wanted to do. And so, but she's been like, she's lucky in that she lives in the freelance world. So when she's on, she's on for like two weeks straight and then she can take a week off.

And it's not necessarily a week off. It's a week like recovering. But she's home with the baby more than I am because my job is just a little bit more regular every day. However, my schedule is more predictable, so I'm home at 2 o'clock. So if she's not home and I'm not home, then we know that we book somebody until 2 o'clock. I'm home at 2. No problem. Easy.

I take the baby for the rest of the afternoon and put them down at night. Whatever. However, yesterday evening at 8.30 at night while I was just about to fall asleep, I said, wait a second. Caprice is doing a shoot tomorrow. it's a 12 hour shoot 7 a.m to 7 p.m and i have the podcast it is wednesday tomorrow check the phone yep wednesday i called her because she yeah wait sorry it was gonna be wednesday tomorrow yeah i call her from the bedroom because she's still awake downstairs i didn't want to make wake the baby up no more shouting in the house at night and i said hey uh did we book anybody for tomorrow

she's like yeah i said till when two ah shit and so i tried to figure out every which way i was going to find coverage and then i was like okay you know what maybe i'll i'm starting to panic now i'm like uh can we move the day no we can't really move the day uh okay you know what i'll call in i'll call in i'll try to steer the ship and i'll call in and and i'll do the whole show on the phone be hilarious make a joke out of it no big deal i walk in this morning and it's been weighing on me all night i didn't sleep that well last night my head is throbbing because when i don't sleep well i get massive headaches and i i look over at my co-host and i go does anybody have a babysitter. Does anyone know anyone

that takes care of children? And Jax goes, I take care of children. She's like, is it your child? And I was like, yes. And she's like, when do you need me? And I said, this afternoon after two o'clock? Please. And then she said, no problem, I'll be there. So I just want to say, today's show is dedicated to Jax for saving it.

Thank you, Jax. And please tweet her at JaxOnAir to say thank you for saving the SDP. Now, let's figure out who wore the crown, shall we? But there's one important issue we need to get to. Oh, let's not figure it out. Steve and I have I've been walking out of the tunnel for a long time now to this boxing ring. Okay.

Are we? Okay. All right. I was like Floyd Mayweather. I had 50 Cent and Justin Bieber walking down with me as I walked to that ring. You were kind of like McGregor, underdog. But everybody knows you were coming to this fight and you're not experienced. Wow.

This guy is not even a boxer. He's going to try and take me on. Okay. Okay. You could have gone with Logan Paul. He just lost a fight and he's a YouTuber. KSI. Am I right, kids?

Yeah. Is that his name? His real name, I think, is JJ. Oh, okay. That makes me feel old. I'm like, I don't know who that person is. Anyways, I threw out the option that we could totally just move the podcast to tomorrow. I know we don't like moving the podcast, but if it came to that, tomorrow is an option.

And Steve says, no, I have something to do at night. And I said, what about the rest of the day, Steven? I had the LFR. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I've got to spend probably four freaking hours round trip getting down here. And I've got the podcast. And then I've got the Easter Seals draft party that you're not coming to tomorrow night.

What time does it start? What time is this? I think 6? Oh, 6 p.m. Wow. Yeah. Well, and I don't know if you know this. Well, of course you wouldn't.

You never have to drive home from this podcast. It's a nightmare! And it takes forever, especially on Wednesdays! I didn't know if we started a podcast at 11 a.m. wrapped up around 1 that leaving here, Queen and John at 1pm

wouldn't leave you enough time to get to a dinner at 6 I'm confused as to how time works It's weird Is 5 hours enough? I guess not It's just weird that the guy who knows we never start on time

thinks that this would all go according to plan It's so strange how I'm the reason we never start on time. And not the guy who has places to be. I just think it's funny how... Yeah? Oh, yeah. Finish the sentence.

No. If you have something to come back at. That's cool. Steve shows up late, and Jesse's all mad about it, as he sets up the cameras for another half hour. It could have been done while you were waiting for the big burden of the show. Could have been done while you waited on old Iceberg Steve, old Boat Anchor Steve. How many parts of the Titanic am I?

I'm the iceberg. I'm the anchor. What else? Do you want me to move the goalposts? No. What now? All right. Jesse, I wouldn't want you to move the goalposts because goalposts aren't flexible.

I just want to see a little bend. Totally. I'm the one who's got to come down here for this. Watch this. Watch this wobble. Okay, I'm the victim. Okay? Forget your baby.

I am the victim. What are you going to say? You ever seen a guy take a real nice slap shot in slow-mo? Yeah. You ever watch that? Satisfying. And you see that hybrid stick. The bend.

Oh, that bend. The flex. I'm going to bend for you in this argument right now. All right, let's go. I'm going to bend like a nice hybrid stick. Okay. Let's say we start a little late. Let's say we start at noon.

Oh, man. Oh, wow. Okay. We set it for 11, but nobody shows up till noon, and then we kick it off at noon podcast goes 90 minutes It's 1 30 1 30 to 6 p.m. You can't get home. Wait, you can't go to a dinner was the plan to start the show at noon We can start any time the studio's free tomorrow. First of all, we can't always start at any time I'm like can we start earlier? No, we can't why because it's a it's a radio studio

What time do you want me to get up for the freaking LFR? You want me to get up at 5 in the morning to do that thing? I don't go to bed at the same time as you, Jesse. I'm telling you, Steve. What? Game ends at 9.30pm. Yes. I'm giving you from 9.30pm to 9.30am

to 1. Get 8 hours of sleep. Fit that in. 2. Do an LFR. Probably fit that in. And then at 9.30am you leave. They don't require any prep. No. And everyone can do it, too.

Prepping isn't watching the game. Everyone can do it. We can all do it, right? You can all do it. It's so easy. It's so freaking easy. Sportsnet will just let any idiot work for them, won't they? Well, if you believe the Facebook comments.

No. Let's not throw in. They took all. They took Doug McClain and Kip Rios and Cherry Salary and they gave it all to me. You freaking mouth-breathing idiots. What? Let's not throw in the fact... Who am I fighting with?

Let's not... Let's go! Let's not throw in the fact that you weren't even supposed to do your last LFR. Why wasn't I? Hat guy was supposed to... That's right. I could have kicked my feet up as hat guy did the last LFR. Somebody didn't live up to the bet.

Yeah, well, somebody recognized that that would have been a shitty idea. It is actually time for Who Wore the Crown? Because we're running out of time to get to it. So let's get to it, shall we? Jesse, I have one last thing to say. That you could have totally done it, the podcast, tomorrow, and there's plenty of time in a 24-hour day. You are perhaps right, but let's not forget,

this is all Adam's fault. Yeah, that is true. It is Adam's fault. That is true, and the true victim here is Everly with the bad parents. I'm sorry, Everly. Okay, so who were the crown? What did she do, though? Yeah, right?

Paperweight. Paperweight. Now, I mean, she's a paperweight with arms, so she occasionally carries stuff. And I've got to tell you. All right, all right. Very different reactions. Something that, listen, if you haven't gone down the kid highway yet, I will just write,

I just want, around month four and a half, five, they start to, like, they already, they're already starting to look at you and smile, which is amazing, and they laugh or whatever. Yeah. Is what they do. But then they start, then they start to reach out to you. Somebody's gonna clip that. Yeah, yeah. That's what babies do.

I'm just an adult. That sounds like that as well. But they start to do this, like, they start to put their hands out in front of you when you walk a friend of them when you walk which means pick me up and hug me caregiver love me yes and boy oh it breaks your heart every time you think it might wear off after a while no it doesn't and i could almost cry right now thinking about it so let's move on oh couldn't i swear to god it is oh oh anyway it's so fun watching all my friends turn into dads we were at a bachelor party i used to be hard as fuck no never but we were at a bachelor party

Now you're just a soft motherfucker. Yeah, that's right. Add soft motherfucker. Bachelor parties used to be all about like, oh, just party, party, party, drink your face off. But now we have like a gentleman's day, which is like we sit down, we pulled a long dinner table in front of a big TV, and we had giant steaks and scotch. Oh, wow. We watched Star Wars Rogue One. And then for any of you who have seen it, my stardust part came on.

And our friend, who it was his first weekend away from his kid, his daughter, just like in the movie, he just started crying. It's fun watching all these, like, yeah, I'll drink 24 beers, what's up? Now crying at Stardust. Adam, who wore the crown? Who did wear the crown? Well, you guys know that if you live generously, life will treat you royally. Why not pour yourself? Why not?

Why not pour yourself in a friend a crown? Well, because we're going to talk about who wore the crown. We do this every time. We recognize a Leaf player from the last game Or the last couple of games since our last show That has really given it all for the Leafs And the hashtag is OurTownOurCrown If you want to get involved with this

Live generously, life treats you royally Let us get into it Steve, from the Chicago game Who wears your crown? I want to go with me On account of It was 4-1 when I turned the game on In the car

And so according to goals That I saw I believe the Leafs beat the Blackhawks 3-1. Wow. So I'm going to say I wear the crown, but in absence of that, I'm going to say Austin Matthews. Now, why do you say Austin Matthews? That was a really disappointing game. But he, over the past three games, I'm going to say,

we've been asking this guy to give more of a damn, right? And it should be easier for him to give more of a damn and be a takeover-type player with John Tavares back in the lineup. It lightens his load. And sure enough, he's been a monster. That is a scary, scary player. I haven't been focused too much on his two-way game because he has the puck the whole time.

Which is sort of what would take away from it. That makes him a great defensive center. Right, right. And there were a couple ones where he was on the ice for it, but I don't necessarily think it was his fault. Takeover game, most assists he's ever had in a game, He had a four assist game against Chicago Completely wasted

I'm going to give it to Austin Matthews Great I was also going to do the same Okay And I want to do the I wanted to say Austin Matthews Because of one particular play And I forget whether it was goal three or four

But they're in the offensive zone And it's almost right away It's a face off Blows through the guy Gets the puck What is it? To Nylander? Yeah to Nylander

And that goal right there That was the duel all night That was Yeah there was And I think that particular goal for me Sorry, half the night Was so what we want those two to be Oh my god, yeah

I want that to be automatic for them And I realize there's some time left that they need to develop But I believe, truly That those two can be so unbelievably dominant And it's You can see flashes of it When you see stuff like that, you're like Why can't that happen all the time?

And it can, and I think they'll get there But it was nice to see them kind of feel like Alright, great Now, there were some reasons why they didn't win that game, partially on all of them, but... Well, yeah, we'll go through that. We'll go through it. In the same way that Matthews needed to step up in absence of Tavares,

this is the biggest stretch of William Nylander's career. And the team's record isn't great so far in the Mitch Marner's gone era. I want to say they're 0-1-1. But Willie's been great. Arguably their best player or second best. Wait, what? Hold on. Repeat that last sentence. Willie's been their best player, our second best.

There's the crown right there. Hold on, hold on. I thought what he said was, you're right, Jesse. I can get my LFR done and a podcast in the same day. Did I hear that right, or am I... I think he said that as well, a little more under his breath. And then he followed up with, LFRs are easy, you guys. You can do it too.

Sometimes they make Elliot do them. Elliot FRs, am I right? Then what I said is, Adam, I'm moving downtown. Into a place that you own, with exposed brick. It is your dream. When you wish upon a star. Give you a great deal on rent. Can I?

I'm going to give my crown to William Nylander. No way. Because he has been arguably the best player on the Leafs in the last ten games. This is, have you, who did you pick last week? I, if I can remember correctly, it was William Nylander. Okay. Alright, I wasn't sure. Alright.

But I also want to give a half crown, or if I can get two crowns this episode. A tiara. I'd like to give a tiara. A half crown, sort of. To Shailen Brady. Shailen Brady. What's up, Shailen? I love Shailen Brady.

She tweets this all the time. Shailen Brady on Twitter sent out this video, and I think this video deserves a shout out. Okay. Because listen to Shailen Brady. Is this a TikTok? Why not? Why not? That's a tip.

Why not? That is actually a pretty good name. That's a damn good Steve Dangle. Yeah, wow. Why not? Why not? Hold on. Did she say that's her?

I don't know who the person is. There's two people in the video. Are you sure that's not Steve? I would think it was Steve. But there's she saying. Why not? Why not? The other person.

You just got to frigging give her. Is the other person actually doing Steve? Is that a Steve impression? That's an impression, yes. There's two people in the video. No way. I don't know which one, Shailen. No way.

That's not my voice. One more time. That's not Steve. Hold on. That's frozen. Why not? Why not? Wow.

Isn't that good? That's really good. Holy. That's really good. That's a good Steve. That's a good me. Whoa. So, yeah, let us know who's doing the impression in the video because there's two of you there.

Damn. Yeah, shout out, you guys. That is so awesome. One more. Why not? Wow. Why not? Why not?

The pace The cadence And interrupting at the perfect time That's key Beautifully timed Well done I give them the crown That's amazing

That's who wore the crown for this week Brought to you by Crown Royal as always Next time the puck drops, why not? Live generously and treat your Leafs crew To a Crown Royal old fashioned Now let me ask you this Was the Leafs' loss in Chicago painful because they stunk or painful because they came back? Yes.

I mean, that's the Leafs in a nutshell, right? Like, they... This is... Okay, here's their last three games against Chicago. Ready. Their third game of the season last year, that 7-6 carnival with the matching ear goals and Morgan Rielly wins it in overtime. That was also Garrett Sparks' first game of the season last year.

what a carnival of a season that was, that was fun. 7-6. Last year, Leafs are down 5-0 to the Blackhawks. I want to say heading into the third. And the Leafs, knocking right on the door, like, they scored four goals, and I want to say they almost tied it. There was a controversy in the final minute where the Blackhawks knocked the net off. That's how close they came. Then, there's this one, they go down 3-0, Willie scores, that's why he got the crown. Then it's 4-1, Leafs storm back. Brandon Sod scores that goal. They still almost storm back.

Willie scored again in there. Don't forget that. Yeah, that's true. They end up losing the game. Maybe start on time against the Blackhawks, and you'll kill them. Maybe. Maybe don't go down 2-0 like you did in the 7-6 game. Don't go down 5-0 like you did last year on home ice, you disgraces!

And 3-0 like this one It's torture because you just see what this team can be And I know they need to tighten up defensively And they need to do this better And they gotta do that better And Babcock likes to put them through the ringer Let them score goals They are what they are

The only deniers bigger than climate change deniers on the internet Are the Leafs actually do start on time deniers What did you guys say to that? Do they deny it, or do you mean they support it? Oh, the Leafs do actually start all the time. So the earth is flat. Yeah, but it's just, there's so much evidence against it, even though the fancy stats make it say that they do.

No, but it's not about, like, shot attempts or even scoring chances. It's the just tie Hutchison to the goalposts. Just tie Freddie to the goalposts. just not showing up and like it's it's startling how it's almost always the first minute and there are so many games where I want to say it was the Philly game either this Saturday or last the Leafs had a good first 10 minutes but in the first 30 seconds Philly pings it right off the crossbar and that's almost right in the back of your net uncontested shot great quality like

they don't they're asleep at the start of the game and it doesn't matter who they start like i remember i was getting cranky because it i felt like babcock always had this tendency to start the kerfoot line and i'm like what are you doing start with you have two first lines and you're not using either of them to start the game what are you doing uh but it doesn't matter who they put out there like it's been the matthews line it's been the kerfoot line it's been the tavaris line uh i don't get it i just don't get it now this one might be that it was hutch And are we getting into that? Well, yeah, we are going to get into that.

And I think, you know what, I think the people that have made the argument that the Leafs do start on time have a point. And I think they would tell you this in the fact that the goaltending has not been good enough. It just flat out has not. And, you know, I know that we've seen the stats in October. And, Jesse, you brought this up a couple times where, you know, hey, listen, if you got rid of the 7-3 game against Tampa, Freddie Anderson's save percentage would be in the 920s and everything's fine. Except that not. Except that they continue to lose back-to-backs

And Freddie has not been great I don't believe If you look at it in like If you look at it in like maybe three game chunks Or something I think you can see You can see the improvement in Freddie Without moving the goal post too much

Sure Fred Vember has been phenomenal Fred Vember has been a barrel of monkeys Been amazing So I don't want to discount what they're saying Because like you know We make fun and we joke and that sort of thing But I also don't want people to think

That we're like going in on them for that There's other people I would rather really go in on for reasons that actually exist. Where, you know, they make a good point. And it's important to know that maybe their rate of play is good. But then after that first goal went in, boy, it's like the air is sucked right out of the tires. Now, Michael Hutchinson was waived after this game. And this is not the first time. It's like five goal, four goal, four goal, five goal.

He did clear waivers. He's going to the Marlies. It looks like Casimir Kaskisuo. Or Kaskisuo! So, yeah, let me put it right out. Leafs PR is saying Kaskisuo. But we had a Finnish listener send an audio file to this show that said Kashimir Kaskisuo. I'm going to go with Kaskisuo until people beat me up.

Is he in shape? Kaskisuo? Kaskisuo. Oh, Adam. No? Oh, Adam. No? Anyway.

Oh, dadum. It looks like everything goes to plan. It looks like he's playing in Pittsburgh on Saturday night. Yeah, have fun with that. No Crosby, but you have... And they're also on a back-to-back. They play on Friday. Oh, good.

Okay, well, that's good, at the very least. So here's the problem for Kaskiswo. He's not facing Crosby, but he is facing Super Malkin. Malkin is always good, and then whenever Crosby's hurt, he turns into Super Saiyan Malkin, and he's also a Leafs murderer. I was just going to say, he's like Ovechkin, just a guy that loves the Leafs.

Just loves playing the Leafs. For many years, that was everybody. Yeah, yeah, true. Eric Stahl. And I'm like, well, his whole career, they've sucked, so yeah. If you look at Ovechkin's numbers against the Leafs, though, it's sort of stupid. Like, I think like a ninth of his goals have happened against the Leafs. It's so stupid.

It's a stupid number. It really is. Like, I would love to know actually how many goals Ovechkin has, and I would love to calculate the percentage of goals that Ovechkin has scored in his career against the Leafs because I think he scored the most goals against any team that's against the Leafs. I believe that's the case. Gretzky never... I can pull it up here.

Okay, pull it up. Never had to play Who was that guy the Leafs got from the Red Wings Years ago, I forget his name Brett Lebda I forgot his name Man, I remember every Leaf That's how forgettable he was

Trending topic on Twitter years ago Do you want the numbers? Who's he scored against? Alexander Ovechkin splits first opponents Number one on the list Is the Tampa Bay Lightning He's played 69 games against them So most at any team.

No, Carolina Hurricanes would be the most who come in second. Oh, hold on. Gathering the numbers. They're not in order. Oh, of course. So one, Tampa, 69 games played, 47 goals. Two, Toronto, 50 games played versus them, 41 goals. That's insane.

Hold on. How many goals did he have in a year? Toronto's three. Winnipeg is two, 65 games, 47 goals. That's Winnipeg slash Atlanta. Yes. Right. And those were some bad teams.

Toronto's 350 goals, 50 games played, 41 goals. Then comes Carolina, 78 games and only 40 goals. So there you go. Those are the top four. So he has 671 goals in his career. You want to have your mind blown right now? Sorry for the convoluted numbers there. Want to have your mind blown?

Yeah. Ovechkin has 41 goals in 50 games against the Leafs. How many goals do you think that is on an 82-game pace? What is it? 67. That's fun. Oh, my God. Just looking over the numbers,

I think that's the highest percentage versus any team. Versus, like, Minnesota, he has 15 goals in 16 games, but... Oh, my God. Yeah. But of any team he's played, like, over 40 times, the Leafs look, appear to be the highest. How do you calculate percentage again? It's it's for what so if I were a small number no big number divided by small number big number Divided by small number. Okay, so 71 divided by 41

16% of his career goals have happened against Leafs One in every 16 goals no small number divided This is such a struggle so 41 how many goals 6% All the same. That's still a lot. 82% of games he's scored against the Leafs. Anyway, I don't know where we were going here, but I think the point here is that the Michael Hutchinson thing wasn't working.

And you could talk to me about the Leafs not playing and hanging him out to dry and whatever. You could even... No, don't talk to me about Garrett Sparks. I don't know why people keep bringing him up. Chicago Wolves, shout-out streak, record holder. That's right, and that's great. I don't think

I think there was more Than Garrett Sparks' play To deal with last year I think there was A personality conflict In the room That's what I honestly think I have no proof

But And we know he's good In the AHL Yeah Who's like Oh my god But Kaskimir Kaskimir Kaskiswo

Kaskimir Kaskiswo Has a chance now He's got a 928 I believe In the AHL Some really great stats You were tweeting Actually the other day

And I'm looking Him up right now He led all goalies In the playoffs Last year Yeah, because he had a bad first month or something. He had a bad regular season. I think it was 39th and 38th in goals against and save percentage amongst all eligible goalies.

Really bad first three months was his problem. I haven't read the Scott Wheeler article that I retweeted in full. So where is it? Here it is. Here it is. Because I was doing some research, and during my research, I'm like, Oh, Scott looks like he's already covered this, except he did it a month ago. So, here's what I tweeted.

Casimir Kaskisquo has a 928 save percentage in 8 AHL games this season. In his first 14 games last season, he had an 866 save percentage. Is that good? In the AHL. It is abominable. But, he had a 919 in the 16 games that followed. Followed by a 927 in 13 playoff games. He's earned a look, I'd say.

Caskey Swole was injured last October And once he was healthy He was yo-yoed like 40 times Remember that? Casimir Caskey Swole has been called up Casimir Caskey Swole has been sent down All the while he was waiting to become And finally became a father The Leafs traded for Hutch in late December

That was when both Freddie And Sparks were hurt But after they came back Caskey Swole was sent down and actually played That's when the turnaround began And Scott Wheeler has an article on him From the athletic where he goes a little more in-depth than that, but by the numbers He was a 919 in the final 16 games of the regular season last year

He was a 927 in the playoffs and his stats that so far this regular season compared to The playoffs are virtually identical. Hmm. So that's encouraging. Here's the rub. He hasn't played an NHL game yet right Garrett Sparks is hands-down Disputed the best goaltender in the American Hockey League. There's no disputing it. His last three seasons, he's been virtually unbeatable.

And this season, he's been almost literally unbeatable. 9.53 save percentage. Get out of my face. But he faces NHL shooters, and they friggin' torch him. He got called up for a little stint with Vegas. He faced 12 shots. He allowed two of them. There'll be so many people that disagree with you on that just because they'll be like,

well, he's defense. Sure. Well, he's defense. Well, but back-to-backs. That's not an argument. It's so, I mean, he does strike me as the sort of guy who, like if Garrett Sparks one day does work out, and he becomes like a consistent NHL goaltender,

I won't be shocked because he appears too good for the AHL. He's like the T.J. Brennan of goalies. Is he just a 4A guy, though? Maybe. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, I wonder with him, too. No, he didn't mean goalies. He meant baseball.

Oh, I know, I know. I was trying to take it and apply it at the end. It didn't work. I don't know if you guys are new here, but that happens a lot. I think with Garrett Sparks, the issue that I always had was he's a down-and-out guy, so he'll make this spectacular down-and-out save. The problem is at the NHL, you have to be so spectacular to make a spectacular down-and-out save. It's just that much more.

And that's not to go against what the AHL guys are. They're extremely talented. However, you don't have a lot of guys in the AHL scoring 120 points. You know what I mean? Yeah. Are you guys at the next level scoring that kind of... Like, there is quite the chasm. There's a jump.

Yeah, like, for the longest time, the Marlies record for points in a season, I want to say it was like 70-something. Yeah. It's rare that you see that true dominance. The Leafs... Elliot Friedman said they're not that worried about the position right now. But they apparently passed on Louis Domingue. Twice, he said.

Yeah, twice. As waivers and a trade target. And then they said Eric Comrie might be an obvious play for them. Because he's got the same cap hit as Hutchinson. The other ones who made sense were Tristan Jari, Casey DeSmith, and, interestingly enough, Alex Staloc. Who was here. Who the Leafs basically got in a trade. And then almost, like, it was one of, it's a story that we don't talk about enough.

But he came here. And they didn't treat him well. Um, no, I don't think it was that um, I think because that's when I was covering the Marlies it was Man, the Leafs were just garbage garbage and getting rid of everybody and they were gearing up for a long playoff run The Marlies the Marlies. Yes, and they had they had Chris Gibson who again, there's another guy they gave up on He's got great AHL numbers keeps getting called up to the NHL keeps getting chances keeps getting shelled It was Chris Gibson and Garrett Sparks And Garrett Sparks wasn't playing as the starter

Because he had just played games with that miserable 15-16 team But was hurt Remember, it was him and Bernier At the end of the season, it was horrible Because Reimer was traded to the Sharks Right So, and then they got There was another goalie who ended up joining them

I think it was Kaskiswell Actually, he joined the team And they made this trade for Alex It wasn't for Alex Staloc He, I want to say, was part of Either the Reimer trade or the Polak trade Because they made those two trades And like, didn't Rafi Torres come that way too?

Yeah, Rafi Torres, noted Leaf Retired as a Leaf Never played a game Never played a game Hey, you got your Toronto-born player, everybody Staloc, they basically I want to say he had like a young family And they were like

You know, we got you because you were a body in this trade, basically. You're not going to be playing for us. Go home and be with your family. So I think to treat him poorly would be to have kept him. Okay, because there was an

article in The Athletic a couple years ago about how he wasn't thrilled with his time here, but maybe... Well, they never gave him a shot. Yeah. So maybe he wanted that. Yeah. Which I think that's understandable. Absolutely. I have a question that's a little unfair. Go for it. But I think it'd be fun.

I don't think it'll be the last one today. Is the not signing of Curtis McElhaney the worst 2020 hindsight move that Dubas has made? If you're ranking all of the worst decisions he's made with perfect hindsight, you're ranking them. Is that the worst one so far? It's a pretty bad one. But you could never have known.

That's why I'm saying it's unfair. Yeah, the, again, like, I'll still, someone, you know what's funny, I was arguing with someone in person recently, and I went to my usual argument of, listen, I stand by the logic of that deal. You're getting rid of the 35-year-old who just played the best hockey of his life, and you're banking on him not repeating that. But also it's at the risk of losing two good, promising-looking young goaltenders, and Calvin Pickard and Garrett Sparks. Well, they ended up losing Pickard, and obviously they lost McElhinney to waivers. Sparks completely didn't work out, but I agree with the logic. And what the person argued back at me was, what are you talking about?

Sparks was 26, or he was like 25, or something like that. And I know goalies tend to take longer, but I don't know. That was his opportunity. And also the back-to-backs. That's the gig. And McElhinney stood on his brain. Stood on his brain for this team. I don't know anything.

I don't profess to know anything about how Curtis McElhinney's done this year. What I will say is that we gave Mike Babcock and have given Mike Babcock a hard time for a lot of things. But one thing he was absolutely correct on. He wanted Mac. Not just that. It's not that he wanted Mac. It's why. And why he wanted Mack was not just because he,

I don't think he was even expecting Mack to be the same goalie that he was this previous season. He wanted Mack because Mack had played at the NHL level and he'd won and he could do it. And he was a backup. And it's exactly, and it's such a, it's such a weird thing to say, because you look at it and you go, well, how could, look at all the numbers that Sparks did. How could he not have that? We just didn't. And, and I don't know what the reasons for that would be,

but I can tell you that there is a huge jump. You talk to any goaltender that's formerly played in both leagues and they will tell you the first time I heard there was a goalie once has had a party. I'm not going to name him. And he played for Nashville and he played like two games. It was not a it was not like a long stint, but he came out of the HL thinking, OK, I think I got a pretty good shot here. And he was first.

It was like Colorado or something like that or Philadelphia. One of the two, Peter Forsberg, walked down the wing and fired a shot right over his shoulder. and he's like i didn't even move i didn't i didn't even react it was so fast and he said the difference is huge and i think mike babcock because we give him so much shit deserves credit for saying you know what winning at this level is just different because the shots are different because the players are different because the play is faster because of all these things and on that in that in that regard and i'm a i'm a mike babcock fan despite what i say on this show I'm generally a fan of what he does

I think he was absolutely right But again, Kyle Dubas Like you said, the logic's there The logic's there And to your point, to your story Because Ben Scrivens is another guy Who's like, holy shit, they rip it At this level

One thing I want out of the NHL's data A lot of people were ripping Glenn Healy's I think he had the radar gun that measured I think it measured how fast a player was going But also he did shot speed sometimes I'd be fascinated to know the average speed Of a shot in the NHL

Versus AHL I bet that dad exists I don't know, maybe I want to see NHL players compared to other NHL players But I want to see the difference in level I'd also like to know about the torque On one of those shots Maybe better sticks as well

Potentially, for sure I don't know why There was many things about Glenn Healy as an analyst That I was like, oh, don't like that I met Glenn, I like Glenn, he's a great guy I just disagreed with a lot of the stuff he said But I thought that was one of the cooler things he did And I thought at least behind the bench the guy had something to say

There's a lot of guys who call games now Like only with Glenn gone Where I'm like well at least he had a bloody opinion He wasn't, yeah he was friendly off the ice He wasn't friendly behind the mic But at least he's not a yes guy Yes, yes No that's not an insult at all

That was his strength I think people were criticizing leaning on the radar gun, which fine, but I'm fascinated to know the info. Yeah, I think that's cool. It's still fun stats. Yeah, guys can rip it. Another thing, so Babcock was right, but part of me wonders if it was another example of Mike and his I'm right parade

with just refusing to let decisions that he disagrees with work. Garrett Sparks played two games last October. He had no shot to get into any kind of rhythm. Now, I know that's the gig, but you couldn't find one other game, Mike, one other game, two, get him into something. I know you're playing to win every night. This will help you win. This will help you win in February, March, April.

But based on the way Garrett Sparks played, Mike's argument would be no, it wouldn't. Yeah. You at least discover sooner Sure Like his hand was sort of forced Yeah if you're going to make a mistake Make it quickly Hotch has already played in five games

Because his hand was forced They've had five back-to-backs Yep Right And they're about to have their sixth So his hand was sort of forced He got a lot more of a chance Than I guess

Sparks did I suppose So maybe that's what he was talking about It's also interesting In terms of Development Because like in the AHL I don't think you can let a goalie

Start all the games Because you are I don't think It's like a forward Sort of where they go You want a team full of first liners Right You want everyone to be a star player

No I think there is such a thing As a starting goalie And a tandem goalie and a backup goalie And McElhaney was a great Backup goalie and I don't think it's a role Sparks is suited for I think maybe tandem because that's what he did with Pickard and they were both really good um but that backup life especially that role with the leafs tough

it's just what we're not talking enough about how they did make a point of saying we're gonna get freddie more rest this year and they've done nothing to address it nothing hutch was never gonna get a weekday start on rest what are you talking about so if caskey swole gives them better goaltending on the second half of back-to-backs, and maybe they pick up a few wins. Wonderful! It solves nothing. Well, it does solve the problem of not winning the back-to-backs.

Okay, it solves... 50% of the problem. It doesn't solve enough. Fair. It doesn't solve enough. I'm not trying to split hairs, but I like it. And to, I guess, maybe Babcock's point, McElhinney plays last year. Do the Leafs get home ice advantage against Boston?

Maybe. Who knows? Who knows? I don't know. They could have lost it at home. Could have lost it. Which would have been great. Hey, so tonight versus the Islanders, obviously, Tavares' next, next return. But at least Freddie Anderson's starting this time.

No Mitch Marner. And it's funny that... The Tavares Leafs have not lost to the Islanders with Freddie Anderson in that. Well... Just saying. I'm sure somebody sold some tickets to that game tonight. Mitch Marner is out Elliot Friedman

interestingly in his column said I think Nick Batan really deserves an opportunity I didn't realize this because I guess I really noticed Nick Batan

when he is playing he's only played five games this year yep I didn't realize it was that little I think they gotta give him a shot shot

like an actual shot I haven't seen what their lines are do you have their lines? I can pull it up have they posted them yet? Let's check Any tweets

It doesn't look like he has Lines Going down Let's check My idea was keep Janssen Matthews Nylander together Have the second line And Hyman's playing

Yeah it's difficult Without Hyman in the lineup I had Patan with Tavares Put Patan on the left of Tavares and Moore on the right It's a difficult line to deal with It's completely different, but it's difficult to deal with With Hyman in the lineup I'm struggling

To find a spot for Patan Is Hyman back tonight? Yes he is, and I don't want to shove him on the Fourth line, because I don't think he succeeds In that role Here's Christian Chilton Defense, they've done nothing, who's surprised Oh

Okay Janssen, Matthews, Nylander Hyman, Tavares, Kapanen I don't blame them, but I disagree. Mikheyev, Kerfoot, Moore. That's fun. Patan, Shor, sorry, Gauthier. What did Spezza do to Mike, man?

Shor has not been that good. And you need, especially on the power play, Hyman doesn't provide anything there. He doesn't play on the power play. You need a little bit of playmaking. You need a little bit of hands. Oh, stop. If Spezza doesn't play the next home game,

just forget it with him. I haven't hated him. He's been fine. A couple dumb penalties. Sure he's taken penalties. And then he went out there and killed them and didn't do a great job of killing them. You don't like that they're yo-yoing them? They're not.

They're not switching back and forth. Spezza played last game. Yeah, because Marner was out. Now Hyman's back and he's out again. Yeah, and then he'll be back on Friday. Spezza was in out of necessity. They were both in last game. Yeah, and then he'll play Friday or Saturday.

I'll believe it when I see it. He'll play Friday or Saturday. There's a back-to-back. He plays neither. No, okay, now I'm just being ridiculous. Timoshev is out of the lineup right now, though. Do you want to bet another hat guy LFR that you're not going to do? God, no.

Well, I don't honor it, so yeah, sure. Timoshev's not even in the lineup tonight, so. Yeah. And there's a guy who, like, I don't think deserves to come out of the lineup. And for as much as Babcock appears to love him, he doesn't friggin' play him. Tim Schaaf's always playing like 8 minutes I don't know I'm waiting for Dubas to

do some Galaxy Brain stuff because I'm getting pretty fed up We keep hearing out of like different injury reports you'll hear like a little like one line here or there that they want to give the lineup a chance Whenever there's like trade rumors

people are like oh it's time to trade somebody or this guy's coming back is always like oh but Dubas wants to see them go at full force But how long can you wait on that before you've got to make a move? Until Christmas, apparently, because that's when they're going to be healthy. So, optimistically, because Marner, they said, is out a minimum of four weeks. Yeah, because he's on IRs. He's got to spend the whole time there.

I've seen some doctors say four to six. Now, the only benefit... We'll see him in January. Yeah. Yeah. There's no point rushing him back. Bring him back for the kids game, December 23rd at 2. I love the kids game.

It's really cool. It's a great idea. I can tell you they're already working on the intro for that. And last year was all Fortnite themed. So they made the Leafs all Fortnite. And the ice for it is so cool because obviously they got that ice projector. And so we ran through and I was actually reporting for Leafs Nation Network at that point. And we actually got to see it run a few times.

And they bring the kids out and it's just, oh, go to that game if you can. Go to that game. And they actually do something that we suggested years ago on this podcast. Now, not because we suggested it, but I think because it's a pretty easy. Yeah, they were listening, and they're like, you know, those guys with 2,000 listens a show, they're the ones that we want to listen to. No, what we said at the time was there should be a fans game. Fans game.

And I'm glad they turned it into a kids game. Not the shitty fans first game, the free preseason game that no one cared about. No, not that. What I suggested, and I think we talked about, was that every year, instead of getting 41 tickets as a season ticket holder, you get 40. And one game goes to people So anyone can buy a ticket Right, is that what this game is?

Well, it's that But it's different because I believe That a lot of the tickets Which are held by season ticket holders They reach out to you and say Listen, will you give them up for this game And a lot of the season ticket holders will That's awesome

It's a cool kick off to the holidays too Because a lot of people, it's a two, you just can't go So it's the season of giving Hey, you want an early Christmas present? Here you go And last year, it was just after, it was like on the 28th or something. Oh, was it? Yeah. And it's always just Carolina.

And they had just come back from Carolina. Yeah, they had just... This is the third straight year. Interesting. I don't... I guess Carolina's like, sure. We'll play... We'll do it.

I guess. Yeah, it was weird. I saw that weird game where they shelled Scott Darling a few years ago. No, it's a lot of fun. But yeah, they'll get a little bit of cap relief, but they'll also not have Mitch Marner in the lineup which I think is a terrible trade

not worth it well LTIR so well do you want enough enough cap room that you can afford

Tristan Jari I guess is that going to move the needle oh yeah but it does give Dubas some room if he does want to

make it but room is like 700 grand room is like being able to have spares on his roster

oh when Mitch Marder comes back does Jason Spezza then have to go I don't think that's the case anymore like I don't think

they'd have to wave him anymore which is a big deal that's possible it is a big deal because it was gonna really honestly we knew injuries were coming at some point

but it really would have sucked to see him waved like even if he got waved and went back to Ottawa which would have been a fitting thing like if Ottawa had claimed him that would have been amazing

whatever the guy's from here his family's here he has a house here he's in a neighborhood here he's involved he doesn't suck he doesn't suck

he's actually quite a good addition to the team like I don't and you know what one of the most telling things I think for me was because the Leafs went through a really shitty October, and let's be honest, it wasn't great, and you could tell it wasn't great.

Luke Fox even said, in this reporter's opinion at the end of one of his articles, the Leafs are better with Spets in the locker room. Now, that might just be, again, you probably show me all the stats in the world that tell me he's not really an effective player anymore, whatever. I still think

some of that matters. I still think attitude and atmosphere matter. And having a guy that's been to the Stanley Cup Finals before who has been through it again and again and again and who really could use a Stanley Cup on his resume, like, man, wouldn't that be a nice cap on the career? Boy, it would be just so nice to have him there. Do it for Spets! With Patrick Marleau. Like, Patrick Marleau's presence in the locker room meant something.

And if he wasn't $4.25 million a year, you keep him for that reason. $6.25 million. Oh, sorry, $6.25 million. Mark Cook doesn't know how to treat veterans. Well, it's funny because he's apparently a veteran guy. No. Well, like, with Zetterberg and Datsouk and, like, Abdelkader, I think he picks his veterans.

Yeah, there's no rhyme or reason to it, really. But, like, not playing Medano in his 1500th game, get a clue. I can't remember exactly how Alfredson was treated. Mike Commodore, we obviously know that story. Jason York I know for a fact was a guy who was Buried basically by Babcock And then he got traded and went on to play

Another two and some odd seasons In the NHL after Signing a new deal It's weird this guy Man he He decides he doesn't like you And then when he does decide He likes you

It's out of nowhere and extremely weird How is Justin Holl on this team this season He was not a hockey player last year He was a hockey practicer He was a hockey practicer And whenever he had to go on the lineup Remember that frigging Justin Hall Igor Ozhiganov pairing

That wasn't even fair Like one of them playing their off thing Wow Justin Hall looks terrible Yeah! He didn't play He didn't play Josh Levo just one day I like him And Dubas is like cool I have to trade him now dick

he had to he had to it was get him it was get Carconi for him or get nothing so he chose Carconi and then the Sens went we'll take Carconi

and Dubas said yeah well that's about right it's like giving away Josh Levo in the deal where they lost Connor Brown as well

you know a much cheaper guy would have fit great on this year's team probably provided a lot of things Babcock loves You know

Don't wait until it's too late there Mike It's so So strange Such a strange coach I don't know Yeah Well it is nice to see him In the lineup regularly

Now we're going to move on To something quick here Or not quick We're actually We've got lots to talk about But I want to do I want to talk about the LA Kings Who to me

Are quickly becoming One of the most interesting Franchises in the NHL For a while there They were great And then they were not And we were wondering What the hell they were doing

We know their AHL team Is doing well We know that they've got Some great things in the pipeline And now You better have a good AHL team if your NHL team sucks Yeah, for sure And now, we're finally starting to see what exactly

Rob Blake is doing Because for a while, I was like, what are you doing? You signing Kovalchuk? What are you doing? The museum of the LA Kings Yeah, why are we doing this? And a lot of this is stuff he inherited, to be fair But I would argue That they could have been better faster

If they'd made the moves they needed to make If they hadn't signed Kovalchuk If they'd traded Tyler Toffoli last year said it. There was moves they could have made sooner, much sooner, that would have propelled this faster. However, they believed, I mean, 18

months ago when they signed Kovalchuk, they believed they were a playoff team. You know, it's funny, because we rag on certain teams for their cap situation. By the way, Kovalchuk was the second bell of the ball on the Tavares year. So it was Tavares, Kovalchuk, and LA stopped San Jose from getting Kovalchuk.

And Boston. And Boston, which is a shame. Boston wanted him bad. I bet he You're right in Boston though Damn it Yeah probably Yeah 40 goal scorer I don't remember What I was going to say

So here's what's happened today Oh sorry We've dumped on a lot of teams For like cap management And trades they should have made The Kings have largely escaped That score on this show Because

I don't know What I would do Well yeah They've got Dustin Brown still has 40 years left on his deal Like I don't know Where you're supposed to go

And Jeff Carter whose deal isn't bad his cap is not even enormous but he's not that good anymore right

and he's not the direction this league is going 18 months ago I think you would have been able to get more for him or retained less

or whatever it is you'd have found a taker but you would have found a taker and you gotta convince him here take 5 or 7 years or whatever it is

left to him from like a sports franchise business perspective I always understand the Stanley Cup team or the team that's good for a long time

holding on to those old players just for in terms of like season tickets and fan base and you want to sell jerseys of those guys because the fans like them

yeah we sold 40,000 of these jerseys we must keep this player but from just a sports management type and it was just like hey we want to win you always got to

cut ties with these guys early and they didn't do that at all that was Dean Lombardi's biggest problem though he was too loyal like the Mike Richards

situation did Dean Lombardi it just did I don't want to get into that right now Kings won the cup a few months after you joined the show it was a long time ago yeah but it was a long time ago

and now it seems like now they're back to okay we're setting the standard higher we may not win more but we are setting the standard higher Ilya Kovalchuk has been benched officially today for the foreseeable future so what they said

and again there's an update on this But I'm just saying what initially was said Is that Ilya Kovalchuk will sit And the thinking was Well, he's got a bonus to be paid to him I think it was December 15th Yes Because his salary is only 700 grand

It's a signing bonus John Shannon, formerly of Sportsnet, wrote this today Sure appears inevitable that Kovalchuk's time in LA is done At present, he is still a member of the Kings But that could change Pure cash, he's owed 6 million this year And 4.25 million next year Any buyout, if it occurs

will be at 100% because it's an over 35 deal. What was the thing Elliot wrote in 31 Thoughts? He's like, even if he goes to the moon, he still gets his $6.5 million because he's 35 plus. Some fun like that.

What a silly, silly deal. It was a silly deal. And at the time it was like, everyone was like, well, why don't you just take a chance? $6.25 million is not taking a chance. That's making a bet. For three years, he got Marlowe's deal yes yes taking a chance is jason spence at 775 that's taking a chance they made a bet it pushed it made up poorly and i i remember saying at the time i'm like are we sure that guy who

hasn't played in the nhl for four years is now 35 years old is still a guy that can play here in a league where the skating is completely different you know like he changed he plays a little old he still got this like civil war canon shot that like he doesn't even need to be mobile To use He's still mean He's still a jerk But you're not getting Old Ilya Kovalchuk

But if you get Ilya Kovalchuk At three million dollars And you're a team That struggles to score And I'm thinking Arizona Coyotes here I was thinking them

I was thinking I don't know what Their cap situation is like Remember they were like Right up against us Oh yeah Which is weird But he's not even

A goal scorer anymore Well he's not with the Kings But you gotta remember The Kings don't score goals anymore Not even Jeff Carter does If he's got a good setup man I don't know, Connor McDavid That's fun

Imagine you've got Connor McDavid or Leon Dreisaitl And you've got Neal with one And Kovalchuk with the other Neal's at six or five something But Kovalchuk's at two and a half Three Whatever his deal is in half

You could keep that Dreisaitl-McDavid-Cassian line Together And then have like Neal-Nuge-Kovalchuk That's not a bad top six. It's a really weird line. For something cobbled together. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, the one issue I think with Kovalchuk would be sort of keeping up

if he was going to play with McDavid is the speed, right? Everybody has that issue with McDavid. He's so fast. But, boy, it sure would be cool to see a power play with him on it and that cannon. Because then you can always, you know McDavid's going to draw two. Dry saddle you have to have somebody on, which means Kovalchuk's open. Ooh. Ooh, that's an idea.

Yeah, Adam, I don't know how they afford it, but it's an idea. It's not... Well, I wonder if they look at, like... Dallas can't score? Dallas can't score either. They love their veterans. They love guys that are super old. They got Radulov.

They do have Radulov. They've got Pavelski. KH online. Let's go. Yeah, true. That's true. Yeah, Dallas should just go full old. Well, that's what San Jose's doing.

Sure, yes, they are. They're full old and busted. But I love... I like the idea of him and Edmonton because I think it would just be so much fun. I think Connor McDavid is the type of guy who can take a guy with some of the skills that he still had. Maybe not the speed he still had, but the hands, the shooting, the brain. He's so unfair. You see that goal he scored against the Ducks?

Man, it's nuts. He got a hold of his knees at the face-off dot, got up, made four more moves, and scored at full speed. He's dumb. Yeah. So why wouldn't you surround him with, if you're Edmonton and you're right up against it. By the way, they've only got half a million bucks in cap space right now. The Oilers? Yeah, so they have to make a move.

Smarter than I thought. But maybe you say to them, okay, listen, we'll take Kovalchuk, but you've got to take... Chris Russell. We'll take two years of Kovalchuk, but you've got to take one year of Sam Gagne and two years of Chris Russell. Sam Gagne is interesting. So you trade us $10.25 million over two years, and we'll give you $7 million this year, assuming they can make it. You know what I mean? you could find a way

I like that you're getting creative man I also don't hate the Arizona Coyotes idea because they're currently sitting two points back of Edmonton

with a game in hand for the Pacific Division so if they're looking at their team and they're like hey we're better than we thought 20 games in

we could be first place in division why not go get somebody to bolster the lineup reward the guys for starting off the season great

you know why not yeah and you can really you can get them for nothing like you just We'll give you literally a player to be named later

Right And then you have the all outcasts Like winger line Kessel, Kovalchuk That's pretty awesome Yeah Yeah like I think we're in agreement That he could be a contributor to someone

Sure But three years six and a quarter was insane Based on the system that they play He sure would look good in Boston too He would Please no He would. I know. Listen, I don't want it either. Imagine Pasta in the bomb slot on PP1 and then Kovalchuk in the bomb slot on PP2.

Just stupid. And the thing is, Boston's able to pull off dumb trades like that for some reason. Or Kovalchuk at the point. Yeah. Don Sweeney's really good at pulling off trades. You go, really? How? And they do. You never see anyone complaining about Boston trading their first round picks for Ryan Hartman and stuff like that. You know what I mean? Or did they trade him? No, it was Nashville that traded their first for him.

But he ended up in Boston last year Man, he played everywhere I don't even know Fun fact too And this one will make you hate yourself Because Boston's so flippin' good The only player in the NHL that's played 100 minutes Without being scored upon

Who is who? So this player's never been on the ice For a goal against this season It's not Bergeron No, it's not Bergeron It's not Marchand No, it's not Marchand It's not Pasta

It's not Pasta, no Is it Bacchus? Not Bacchus No I don't know I'm trying to Think Really think This hurts

I'm going to make you think Krejci Nope Dabrask Keep going Now I'm just naming All the Bruins Corrali

Nope keep going Friggin Swedish guy Scored on the Leafs in game 7 I can't remember his name Who's our team? Our team? Did I say our team? No, no, no. Our team.

Leafs. Leafs, yeah. And then think of Boston. Yeah. And then think of, so think of the... Oh, is it a former Leaf? I don't know. Keep guessing. Who's a former Leaf on Boston? Adam, I didn't sleep last night. Who is it?

Perlin Holm. Oh my freaking God! No! Yep. He's been quite the ad, apparently. But luckily... We got Nick Pertan. In return they got guy Babcock won't play At least Per Lindholm played right? Oh, yeah, he played he played like 60 games

You know what I will say about that trade so they went with oh, let's see what we got in Patan unfortunately Dubas is just out there on the dance floor making an ass of himself because he doesn't have a partner in this friggin relationship If they had just kept Lindholm We wouldn't be going through all the Spetsashore drama. Evidently. We wouldn't be going through this Patan drama. You would just have a fourth line center and a penalty killer who could take face-offs

because that's the position he plays. Now, apparently, apparently with Per Lindholm. Apparently. A Per Lindholm-ly. Evidently, one of the reasons they made the trade is because he did not have a contract and was a UFA, and either they didn't want to pay what it was or they didn't think he'd sign, Which means that he didn't He had one goal

Right However My understanding is Maybe he didn't Maybe he wasn't thrilled With the way he was played Can I Can I read you a

An exchange between Steve Simmons and Craig Button On Twitter Over this Over this Discussion Here's the problem One of these men is smart

And And the other is A guy With a Twitter account, which is really what you could call me. I'm a guy with a Twitter account. Are you okay? You might as well have gone, Steve, do you want me to just keep fucking up the silliest timeline? Go for it, Jesse.

This won't crack the Mount Rushmore of weird shit that is even on this episode. Steve Simmons wrote, Tolvanen was the most explosive player in the Olympic hockey tournament in Pyeongchang 2018, but has just one goal in the AHL this season, which tells you how poorly the quality of that Olympic tourney was. Ilya Kovalchuk, also impressive in Korea, L.A. now wants him out. Craig Button says, Kovalchuk was never impressive at Olympics in 2018.

He was a fourth-line winger and Russia doesn't win unless they move him to a spot where he wasn't relied upon. It was a bad signing by the Kings. He was no longer capable of being a productive NHL player. Okay. They put him in a ridiculous position to succeed in St. Petersburg, too, on that friggin' Monstars team that was just decimating all their shitty little KHL opponents.

It was never good. I thought that was funny. It is funny. Craig Button just coming back being like, Hey, the opposite of what you said is actually true. Here's some information. Backed up by these weird things we call stats, not advanced ones. Mike Kelly, actually, from Mike Kelly NHL,

interestingly tweeted something, and this is for Toronto fans only, but Toronto will miss Mitch Marner on most special teams. Leads forwards in PKI's time and is tied for the lead in power play points. At 5-on-5, though, 0 goals and 4 assists in 18 games. That's not good enough. Matthews, Nylander, and Mikheyev have been the Leafs' most productive even-strength forwards all year. They're still in the lineup.

Who was that second name? Nylander. Mikheyev. Man, the third name's the important one. Come on. The other two are at least paid to be. Soup. Soup.

Interestingly, too, the Kings apparently are, like, obviously really shopping Tyler Toffoli. He's another guy that's just going to sit. So they sat him, and then they put him on the top line to showcase him, which in L.A. is okay. and then he may be benched again he's getting the

Mariusz Tchaikovsky treatment I remember that from when I was a kid he either wouldn't play or he'd play with Sundin and it drove me insane it was weird so I just don't know how you trade a guy like Tyler Toffoli and you know what for that matter Kovalchuk but I think Kovalchuk's pedigree is what

sells people on him not that Toffoli's a bad player but he may not be the player he was I'm surprised his career's gone this way how do you sell Toffoli when you're scratching him. Is it an effort thing or is it a skill thing? I think it's a try to protect him

or make sure he doesn't get hurt thing. Ah, okay. Took a penalty against the Leafs and looked like he was not loving life. His dad said hi to me at my Oshawa Costco book signing that no one came to. Did he just pop in and say... No, he was just like,

Hey, how you doing? I'm Tyler Toffoli's dad. Oh, that's cool. And it's funny, I saw him walking up. I love Canada when you see someone wearing a weird team's gear. Yeah. You see someone walking around with a Minnesota Wild hat, and I'm like, there is at least a 50% chance you know someone on the team. I told you, I swear to God, I saw David Steckle's dad at a Tampa Bay Lightning game.

Because it was Tampa Bay versus Nashville in Tampa Bay. And you saw a Steckle jersey. And I saw a blue Leafs Steckle jersey. I'm like, that's David Steckle's dad, and he lives here in the wintertime. Did you talk to him? No. Oh, you should have done investigative journalism. I should have.

You know what? I do regret that now that you think of it. I just don't like bugging people. That's fair. I was in Calgary once, and I was eating at a restaurant, and I looked over. Sure enough, it was Jerry Seinfeld. Oh, wow. Wait, what?

Jerry Seinfeld was doing a show in Calgary that night. I looked over. There's like three people on this patio. It's downtown Calgary on the weekend, so nobody's there. And there's this street. I want to say it's 7th? And it's beautiful. It was 8th.

It's absolutely beautiful. It's like a walk It's like you walk down and it's an all pedestrian street Absolutely beautiful in the winter In the summer or whatever And it was early spring and it was a nice day And it was one of those weird Chinooks that come up So it went from minus 10 to

20 degrees in the same day So you're outside in your shorts and t-shirt while there's snow on the ground And I looked over Sunny and beautiful and there's Jerry Seinfeld And my co-host at the time, Danae and Fuzzy Gave me the biggest hard time For not saying hi to him And I was like no I just can't

I can't do that. I don't want to bother him. That's the right move. Every story I've ever heard is Seinfeld would be like, hi, thanks. He's not a big, I don't think it's that he's unfriendly. It's just he doesn't like people walking up on him, I guess. And after 30 years of it, I can imagine that it would get a little bit annoying. What's the deal with people saying hi to me?

Oh, my God. How many times every day do you think he gets what's the deal? Oh, my God. Oh, man. What's the deal with you wanting me to validate your parking? You gotta think about Like the places on earth That he can walk into

Where he isn't The most important person In the room It's like Or the most famous Or the most famous Yeah The most famous

Is probably the better way To word it It's like his house Like when he's in his house I assume everybody Acts like he's normal Yeah But then you leave your house

And you go everywhere And you're Jerry Seinfeld Like that must be difficult Does he have kids? Yes His kids Do they refer to him As Jerry Seinfeld?

I don't think so Probably dad. Jerry Seinfeld, read me a bedtime story. He should have a Christmas book called What's the Deal with Christmas. What's the Deal with Christmas? It's like Harry Potter, but what's the deal with the Philosopher's Stone? What's the deal with the Chamber of Secrets? You know the idiot's guide to whatever?

It should be the Jerry Seinfeld version of What's the Deal with, and then it's advanced mathematics. What's up? It's a demand time. You're lame. Anyway, I try not to bother people, even celebrities like David Steckle's dad. But, you know. Sorry. All that came from I saw a man wearing an L.A. Kings jacket, and it turns out his son was on the L.A. Kings.

Okay, so same thing. In my neighborhood, I'm like, I was walking down the street with my dog one day, and I'm like, nine, with a couple of my buddies who are twins, and they live closer to this person's house. And it is, like, she is decked out, decked out in this one particular NHL team. You won't even say I'm not going to tell you But it's weird Why not? Not a Canadian NHL

And it's like And then No no I'll tell you Okay And then I just don't want to ruin the story yet And And she's like

Are you going to watch the game tonight? And I was like Yeah go Leafs go And she's like Nope And I was like And I turned to the guys afterwards And I'm like

What's her deal? Like how do you be How are you in Toronto And you're not a Leaf fan? And they're like Well that's Chris Traper's mom She's like Like I'm talking

Decked out Red Wings Right down to her shoes And he was a big Leafs fan as a kid I know that for a fact Because we had the same grade 2 teacher And my grade 2 teacher was a Habs fan Who Chris Draper had this big Maple Leafs jacket

And as a joke He'd be like yeah no you're not allowed to bring that in here You hang it in the hall with the rest of the trash Was grade 2 when you got the nickname Dangle? No No it was like grade 11 I thought it was way earlier I was there when he got it

You used to write it on the chalkboard. No, and it wasn't a nickname. No one called me that. No, but it was something that you wrote on behind, right? Yeah. It was a pseudonym. Interestingly, Darren Ferris did something, and the world did not find out about it. It's weird.

What? I know. So, strangely enough, Darren Ferris had a meeting with an NHL GM, and CNN did not report on it. Wow. Shocking as it is, New Jersey GM Ray Shiro and Darren Ferris... Taylor Hall's representation, also Mitch Marner's representation, were tight-lipped about last week's pizza summit in Calgary,

according to Elliott Freeman. The one thing about Ferris is his history is to tell his clients to wait, especially the UFAs, and see what the market will be. That's a big no for the Devils. But if Hall listens to the Devils, and there's no evidence that he won't, they all know an in-season decision is unlikely. Well, if you're the Devils, and you're playing like this, don't wait, man.

Don't wait. Make the trade. Make the trade. And you know what? While you're at it, blow it all out. Gee, that's tough, man. It's November. You know who I traded to?

You know who's desperate? Who's desperate? San Jose. That's not the issue they're facing. Trade Subban while you're at it. Well, that's what I mean. Why not? They don't have enough right-handed D.

Why wouldn't you trade those two valuable pieces and go after... Or actually, you can't really trade with San Jose because Ottawa's got their pick. You need to trade with a team that still thinks they can be good Dallas Oh, dude The second they trade Taylor Hall, the team's cooked, right? Like you're just dedicating the rest of your season to tanking You gotta be flying over that arena

Just birds of prey waiting to pick at the carcass You gotta be ready Can you maybe get a chunk of flesh? Is Damon Severson that little chunk of flesh? Is it P.K. Subban? Taylor Hall, you get the turkey leg. If they become available, it does make you wonder if a guy like P.K. Subban is somebody the Leafs would take a run at. And you're probably asking, how the hell would they do that?

Well, math and figure it out. I don't know. That's the GM's job. The Devils are set up to rebuild right now. Let me see. They have no contracts left going forward. Guys, keep going. My bids show break.

As usual. As usual. So here are their upcoming UFAs and RFAs. Taylor Hall, UFA. Wayne Simmons. I need my glasses, that's how blind I am. Taylor Hall, UFA. Wayne Simmons, UFA. John Hayden, RFA. Jesper Bratt, RFA. Kevin Rooney, UFA. Andy Green, their captain, by the way, for those of you who want that bar trivia question. He's going to be a UFA. Sammy Votnit is going to be a UFA. Mirko Mueller is going to be a UFA, and Mackenzie Blackwood, who I keep dumping on, he's not having a good season, but he was good last year, is going to be an RFA. You are not wrong, Jesse.

Don't you look at that and be like, if they could have a sale right now, get so many assets, and have all the cap space in the world to set up for a nice run in the mid-2000s. Yes. Or mid-20... 2020. I don't know how to call them. Definitely not 2000's how I refer to it And then you make your franchise cornerstones

Nego Heischer And Jack Hughes No more of the Taylor Hall thing You missed your window No more of P.K. Subban You get rid of him You get rid of Hall You move on from Cory Snyder

Well you try I mean if you're going full tank You keep him And you wait until the very very Deadline to trade Wayne Simmons Surely someone's going to give you far too much But still a UFA, you get the assets for that Adam, take a look at New Jersey's Cap Friendly

And tell me they couldn't Have a fire sale in the next Two years and have All the assets in the world There's another guy they could have a crack at, by the way Sammy Votnin, cap hit Is not far off from Cody Seas Yeah, that's the funny thing

So, Sammy Votnin Is up after this year Andy Green's done as well Oh, we just went through all of them. Oh, sorry. Okay, sorry. But there's so much money coming off the books, right? You know, with the exception of Corey Schneider,

I look at the Devils, and like you said, Jesse, to kick this off before I went to the bathroom, they are perfectly positioned to do this and build this team around, and I would keep Severson, I would keep Will Butcher, and I would keep Nico Heischer because you don't have a choice. Obviously. But other than that, who...

That's your new core, though. Yeah. Heischer and Hughes. Is that a bad core? It's not a bad core. No, but the issue is... Jack Hughes, obviously. They're perfectly positioned to rebuild.

They're also, because of all that money, perfectly positioned to sign Taylor Hall. Right. Yeah, but there's no point in signing him if you're not good. I think there is. There's no point in him signing there. Yeah. If they're not good. Right?

And I like Pavel Zakha, too. Sure. He's okay. I think he's a good guy. You still need guys. That's not a... No, he's not a star, but I like what he... That's a piece.

Yeah. It's a piece. And you need pieces. Yeah, you do need pieces. You're a piece. Competent bums. You need pieces. I am a piece.

Exactly. I'm just saying, listen, man. I just, you know. I was just saying, like, Subban's fine, but he doesn't match your window. Taylor Hall's fine. I don't think he matches your window. You build for the future. Mackenzie Blackwood is your goalie of the future unless you find someone else.

He was good last year, not very good this year. I was just saying, you keep Corey Schneider if you want a tank. Nico Heischer is your big piece Who you just signed Jack Hughes Jack Hughes It might be time I think it's time

The idea of trading Taylor Hall isn't as Wild as you think However, knowing what we know About ownership And knowing that New Jersey ownership From all accounts, and there are a few But from all accounts are passionate and...

As opposed to aloof owners. Well, there are aloof owners. There are some. Larry Tannenbaum's a passionate owner, but he's aloof. He doesn't get involved in the day-to-day operation. People report to him, but he's not going to go in and go, well, you have to make this trade.

My understanding is that New Jersey ownership, which I believe is two people, split. New and Jersey. Bill New, Bob Jersey I want that to be true so bad

That would be great The town's named after them They are Bon Jovi's dad Collectively Bon Jovi's dad No but what I What I do want Is for For us to consider that maybe management thinks

That the team's really good and maybe Even if Ray Sherrill wanted to rebuild Maybe he's not going to be given the opportunity Oh you think you might get canned Didn't they just re-sign him Yeah. But if you trade Taylor Hall, it's like, okay, your time's ticking, you know? I think, you know what, if there's a guy that I, I don't mind Ray Shiro rebuilding the team either.

Like, Ray Shiro's not dumb. But how often do you see a GM get the go-ahead for the rebuild and then he sticks through the whole thing, you know? Or the coach. Or the coach, yeah. John Hines is there still sticking around? Because it's usually, okay, you can go do the rebuild and then you suck for like a year and a half in the ownership. And they're not going to do that. All right, let's change it, you know?

They can suck for a year and a half They can suck for a year and a half But they've already sucked for a year and a half Not at stage two Here's how dire things are for the Devils They're at stage three Stage one is uh oh we suck Where they have the early season

Frustrations of Yeah none of us are happy And everyone's doing the locker room head down thing And it's not even necessarily after a game It's just the theme of The week is you suck um the you suck week you suck week um part two is our goaltending sucks let's go do something about it so they've already made the move there part three gm and big ufa meet face to face

in november i mean good on you for studying ahead of the exam but that strikes me as a alright what are we doing here conversation that strikes me as a doing your homework not necessarily just to re-sign a free agent but is this blow it up time

I wonder if the reason Darren Farris didn't say anything because he doesn't need to apply pressure to New Jersey they're going to trade Taylor Hall he needed to apply pressure to the Leafs and it worked Does he need to do the same with New Jersey?

No, he left... He doesn't. Adam, he left $7,000 on the table. So that he could get his junior number in there. He left $7,000 a year. How dare you? How many years did he sign for? Was it seven?

Mitch? Yeah. He signed seven years? I don't remember. I don't even know, man. It sucked. It's just... It sucks.

I think you know how it was six. Six years? It was six. So he gave up $35,000, $36,000? If you put that in the bank with 3% interest. He gave up an SUV that he would never buy. He gave up a compact SUV, a low-level SUV. Which, by the way, I...

He would refer to you as an SUV for poor people. Yeah, a Honda CR-V, like what I have. Mitchell Marner signed one, two, three, four, five, six. First name still. Last name Matt. Mitch Marner signed for six years. Great. Good.

Six times seven. Thank you for your sacrifice. $42,000 is what he gave up. Oh, wow. Oh, because math. Plus interest, guys. Plus that's American dollars. Whoa!

Right? Holy smokes. That's crazy. And it's funny. We're like, oh, man, making all that money. And then you see the way his leg bent. And I'm like, ah, you know, maybe players deserve money. Also, we were talking about New Jersey.

Oh, yeah. Nah. Yeah, but we've moved on to, like, you know, a team. Oh. Real team. You can't even chirp Devils fans. They go, yeah, we suck now, but, like, fuck you. It's 20 games in, and there's still plenty of time for every team to rebound

and every team to fall off the map. Unless Mackenzie Blackwood is the new Jordan Binnington. Yes and no. Maybe. He could be. It's sports. We could never have called Jordan Binnington being Jordan Binnington, And so there you go.

Speaking of new jerseys, Colorado's winter classic jersey leaked today. It is poo in fabric form. What do you thought? I don't hate it. I don't think it's poo in fabric form at all. It looks like a bib. It is one of the best extra jerseys I've ever seen in my life. And I don't like extra jerseys, but I'm considering buying one with Kadri's name on the back.

I like it that much. I think it's awesome. I think it's amazing. I really do. I think it's freaking phenomenal. Do they put drugs into the vents here? No, man. I think this is a great jersey.

I think this is a really well-done jersey. You're both incorrect. Jesse's got it on the screen. It looks like, you know in the dead of winter when it's really dry and you wake up and you blow your nose and it's a little bloody? It's up on the screen right now. That's what that logo looks like. I don't hate it.

I like the little mountain in the middle. Man, I like it. I like it a lot. It's old school. No, the A looks like, for Red Dead folks, it looks like Reverend Swanson's tie. That's actually what it looks like Mr. Morgan I like how the A is the little mountain

And it leads into the stripe in the middle It's kind of cool The mistake that they made is they didn't do the Colorado Rockies jerseys That's what they should have done With pinstripes? No, no, no, the Colorado Rockies hockey team Oh, I'm thinking baseball That's what they should have done

Who are the Rockies now? Is that the Devils? I think that's the Devils and they would own that Pretty sure Yeah, but like that hasn't stopped other teams from doing it like stop the Jets. Yeah, I don't think you can I Think cuz this I'm with you it stays with the organization. Yeah, do you really think an organization's gonna get in the way of that? Yes, I will way no way. Why would you buy that that nah, you wouldn't do that They are barely named the Jets. They are the New Jersey Devils Man, I can't believe Don Cherry was the coach of the New Jersey Devils once that's so crazy

Right? This is how the NHL views things. Is this the transition? Team, no. Are we doing this? No, no, no. Not at all. But we will.

Landon McDonald, former New Jersey Devil. No, we know it's stupid. Team stuff should stay in the city. Period. End of story. Stop it. Rockies jersey should have been it. That's it.

But if you're going to have an extra jersey, and I've been on record as saying I don't really like them because it's sort of ridiculous, can we stop the clown show and just have the jerseys and that's the jersey? However, don't mind that one. And I don't even, I don't own. Has Dale Harawchuk ever been to Arizona? Oh, he is. Like for an event.

Bringing on some of our great alumni. Craig Jenny. Jeremy Roenick. Who also played there. Alexey Zhemnov. Like, I don't know if any of these guys. They had a good little team there for a while. They did.

The NHL GMs will meet next week in Toronto. This, again, according to Elliot Friedman. Because he's the only one that reports on this stuff. Like, it's weird. Chris and Elliot. are the only guys, like I see a little bit of it on the NHL network, but rarely. I see a little bit of it on NBC,

but I don't see a lot of people going, hey, some of the rule change stuff, this is also happening too. And it never happens in article form. It might be a tweet that gets like, you know, 20 retweets from other NHL nerds, but like, you know, no one actually reports on this and writes about it.

And I wish there was a little bit more of this. NHL GMs to meet next week in Toronto, there will be conversations about replay, including two recent rulings. The first was Colorado's Jared Bednar, who challenged a Radek Faxa goal in Dallas. And there'll be some other ones as well. The problem with that one was that it wasn't a penalty. It couldn't have been overturned because that wasn't a penalty.

But the ref didn't tell him beforehand. So they were like, oh, you're embarrassing the coaches by going and doing the replay, even though he challenged something that couldn't be overturned. Because he thought it was illegal, because his stick snapped. He scored a goal with a broken stick. Yes, but that's not, he's like, oh, you can't do that. But you can do that. It's only if you play the puck with the broken stick.

His stick just snapped on the shot. But then the ref's not like, hey, you can't challenge that. The ref let him challenge it, and then it cost him four minutes and penalty minutes. Because he had lost a challenge earlier. Yeah, so they got a four-minute power play because he challenged something that wasn't going to be overturned, because it's not against the rules. It's a pretty significant fuck up Hey you should probably let him know before you go to the booth

And do it but they're like no if he says I want to challenge this it's not up to us To let him know that that's not a rule So that's where that one was very interesting Sorry for the long guy drive That's a ref If that's what happened That's a gross amount of involvement

In the game You're spite challenging something Is it his responsibility to let him know the rules of the game Yes The ref? Yes that's what they're there to do do. Okay, then there needs to be a change there. Because they're saying, if the coach wants to challenge

something, and has to go look at it, then that's on him. Colby Armstrong pointed something out last night when I was walking out of ice surfing. He was pointing at, I want to say it was Adam Werner? Did you see that story last night? No. Okay, so Colorado,

I think, must have turned down an Enchantress that tried to offer them a rose at their front door, because they're the most cursed team in the NHL. Rantanen's hurt, Landeskog is hurt, and now Philip Grubauer's hurt. They're starting goalie. Who's Colorado's backup? Come on. No, I wouldn't expect anyone to get it. Pavel Frantzouz. No idea. Did you make that name up? I might have. He made his NHL debut last year. He was their backup. 30 seconds into last night's game against the Winnipeg Jets,

Mark Shifley crashes the net, cold cocks him, like out snow angel cold. So they got to throw in the next guy. Well, the next guy is a 131st overall pick from 2016 who has never played an NHL game in his life and I want to say has 13 North American games to his name. He ended up making 40 saves in a non-shutout because he didn't play the first 30 seconds. Which I think is absolutely ridiculous. And they won. Wow. I do not remember why I started telling this story.

I don't either. Because my brain is an Etch-a-Sketch right now. Oh. I was talking about the rule there. Oh! Here it is. Colby Armstrong pointed out on my way out of the building, Jesus, that Werner had color tape on the butt of his stick.

And that's illegal. Oh, wow. You're not allowed to have color tape on the butt of your stick, because during a goal review, it could be misinterpreted as a puck. Right, if you're doing the overhead cam, and it's confusing. And it could be, and, dude, I covered the sport, and everyone else in the room was like, what? No one else knew that was a rule. So, I don't expect a coach or any player to know every single rule. And including

After everything that this league Has been through over the past like three years or so What is and isn't reviewable I don't know So if the puck hits the mesh It's reviewable now Everything is reviewable essentially In the NHL

There's already been a goal this season That hit the mesh and it counted Did they review it? I don't remember If they didn't review it then I guess it's their fault But I don't know I think that's ridiculous that the ref's like well it's against the rules but I'll go do it anyway

that's stupid I agree and that's why they are having these Board of Governors meetings to change these things that's right we got a lot of time I just stayed to decide I'm sorry

so listen Pavel Frantzouz it's been a heck of a week for Pavel Frantzouz it's been a heck of a week for anybody that covers, loves, enjoys, plays broadcasts with the NHL. Especially Pavel Frantzus. Pavel Frantzus

has had the biggest week of us all. Yes. But there obviously was on Sunday we didn't have the complete picture of what was going on. No, we got an impassioned reaction to Ron's

apology. Right. Ron. Ron only. Yep. And so, listen i don't know if we could give you a take on what we've seen with the don cherry stuff that you haven't seen on twitter already that you um it's already that would be fresh it's jumped the shark that was already jumped right what when i saw don cherry on tucker carlson i thought it was a photoshop same and i waited till i saw the video to announce to the ice surfing room, I'm like, the entourage is on Tucker Carlson

right now. And I got like a couple, and I'm like, no, for real, look. And a couple resounding, are you fucking kidding me? No, but he's also been on, he also went on The Rebel. Did he? Yep. He went on 680 News, he went on City TV, he went

on CTV, he's just doing the media rounds. And actually, Elliot Friedman mentioned it. I loved what he wrote at the end of 31 Thoughts. He said, it's very hard to explain the seismic nature of the last 72 hours. We jokingly called Ron and Don the circus when they traveled together because they were larger than life. I won't work with anyone else in my career who commanded the attention and had the profile Don has.

Never. No, and that's fair. There were a few of us watching together last Saturday, and we were slack-jawed in amazement. The whole thing is sad. There are no winners. The aftershock will continue for a long time, exacerbated by this media tour. And he means Don's media tour. I felt horrible for—

Oh, Don's making it worse? i felt horrible for co-workers hurt by it for viewers who felt targeted by it and for the ugly never-ending social media battles for ron and for uh any career to end that way uh there but for uh the grace of god i go is how he ended it now i don't want to really go into the dawn cherry stuff because you've heard our opinion on it you know how you how we feel but i do want to talk about something that i'm that i'm seeing and that i believe sure uh i leave i believe genuinely that we are living in a very stressful time and i don't think that's a hot take i think everybody kind of knows that there's a ton of i can't help but yeah there's

a ton of social upheaval right now and i think most of it's long overdue uh however when you have a bunch of social upheaval like this and if you look back through history you look at the 60s is another great example of a ton of social upheaval in a very short amount of time it's like upheaval on rocket fuel most of the time things change over decades we're talking about a couple years like the civil rights movement's a great example uh the gay rights movement at the end of the 70s was another great example well it was building building building and then enough people finally said enough right so beyond the dawn thing i'm talking about overarching here when you have upheaval like this you inevitably have two types of people you've got people that

are for the change and there are people who are sort of afraid of the change it puts people in a place of fear because the rules of life that they've come to expect and live by and feel like good people by are changing and it's not just a few rules that we're dealing with right now we're talking about everything that people were used to that grew they grew up with it it could be 60 70 years on the earth and by the way i cannot relate to what it's like to be 60 or 70 years on this earth yet i don't know i can tell you 31 and and frankly we are being challenged to change and we are being challenged to try to be a little kinder and i want to say this the response to many people from this from this these these changes that we're seeing the changes are good in nature

the changes are be better to women the changes are try to understand what it's like to be a person of color in these in in our countries in our in our hemisphere try to understand the history try to understand why uh people don't feel like they fit into one gender category or the other try to understand but what that does because that all all people are asking is please be a little kinder but that response that really is it that really is it the response to that is often fear and that fear leads to vitriol spruing like spewing left and right and and it's frankly understandable like i understand that in the sense that you have to you have those who fear the change and those who fear will never change enough and they're both both sides there's people who are

leading the charge for the change and people are like holy shit i don't want to change everyone's scared what i do want you to do right now is think back five years there are a lot of movements that we've seen in the last five years alone that we had never heard of never even conceived five years ago that was a leaf well yeah yeah um the me too movement hadn't happened you know like just that that's a for instance there's been many things but i'm just bringing that up yeah you know harvey weinstein was still top of his game at miramax you know what i'm saying uh by the way you got to read that book you have got to read that book but think of the gigantic leaps forward on social issues we've seen and positive stuff i'm talking stuff about understanding gender understanding

sexuality pay disparity women's rights how women are treated in the work in the workplace massive step forward and i guarantee you still lots and lots of work to go but that was always going to cause a lot of people a lot of stress because nobody wants to believe in their heart of hearts that they are a bad person. Nobody wants to believe that. So your first reaction when somebody says, hey, well, that's casual racism.

You go, what the hell are you talking about? You don't know what you're talking about. I've been on the... It's a fear-based and anger-based reaction. And there are those in our society who are smart enough to capitalize on it. And I don't need to name them, but they are people that go...

There's a ton of people out there who feel in fear right now. And I can take that and I can manipulate those people because you're... The most, the people are most manipulatable, I don't even know if that's a word, when they're fearing things. Impressionable? Yeah, well, impressionable is different.

When people fear things, and you tell them, don't fear, I've got the solution, chances are, the chances of them being polarized and following you are greater. Vulnerable. That's just the reality. Yeah, vulnerable. Now, these people think, ah, we'll keep things the same. And if you've studied history, you know that's just not how it works. Change happens. What I'm hoping to say here, and I know it's long and I've got this written down, and I need to do more of this, but I think we all need to do this.

If you can, whatever side you fall on, try to be as patient with people as possible. And I know that is easy for me. I'm a middle class kid, white kid, to talk about being patient. And I'm not always patient. I'm, in fact, very impatient. And I'm talking, I'm not asking you to be patient with the treatment. And if someone treats you like shit, don't stand for that. I'm asking you to be patient with people's views and changing them because change is

really slow. And I'm going to give you an example. And it's going to take everything in your body to be this sort of patient. So one thing that pisses off one of my friends who's gay is that she's got to explain and re-explain and re-explain and explain again and explain some more the various differences between lesbian culture and what has traditionally been straight mainstream culture. And frankly, what's different about about male gay culture, right? Female gay culture, male gay culture, different, very, very different.

And over and over and over. And like this is somebody who it's like literally sometimes she gets a call from like a news organization and it's like, hey, so you're gay. You want to weigh in on this? You know what I mean? And and it's annoying for her. She handles it beautifully, I got to say. But it's got to be frustrating, and it's got to be painful.

In hockey, whenever something happens with a black player, there's the same group of four dudes they call. Yeah, JT Brown. And I've spoken to them, and they hear the news story, and they're like, yep, my phone's been blowing up with interview requests, because it's my time to shine. Right, and it's shitty. frankly it's shitty yes and it's something that you don't want to do and and it's it's like this for a lot of people it's a lot of people who have who are of different race um uh there are people you know whatever your differences are what you know the least the less understood points of view in our society that are finally coming to the surface unfortunately that's going to be a side

effect because if it affects say a black hockey player you gotta ask the black hockey player Although it's annoying And it's not always The right thing to do Like I think When the Don Cherry Stuff happened They basically asked

Anybody of color In the NHL With immigrant parents And JT Brown's wife Lexi LaFleur Yeah Was speaking out About that

And she's like Well what's He's damned if he doesn't Damned if he doesn't Yeah Alright Yeah it's a tough spot To be in

Yeah and like Nazem Kadri Sort of went to bat For grapes And like What did you expect Him to do Yeah

He went in the Hockey Night in Canada studio and got a smooch from the guy. You expect him to blast them? And he's not going to do that because Nassim Khadri does not want to make news on top of Don Cherry news. Also, the locker room,

I don't know if you've noticed this, is not a great environment for nuance. And if you're expecting a really deep, thoughtful response, man, before the game, after the game, you aren't getting it. No, maybe next summer. Yeah, it's also just ridiculous to ask a hockey player that question regardless at this time.

How don't you? Yeah. Like, what are the reporters supposed to do? Right. They're doing their job, and the hockey player is doing their job by giving a non-response. I guess, so what I'm trying to say here, and this is something what I've gone through. I've gone through from my perspective. you sometimes are and i was awoken to things that i may not even have realized were bad

you realize that you're that you are you could be affecting others negatively and not even know it and so when you tell people that the first time they go what the hell are you talking about i'm not doing anything to these people right these people i haven't done anything to these people to those people i haven't done a single thing but then you you kind of say well wait a second what about x y and z have you considered that which people did with me and they were patient with me and that's how change happens and it happens slow it's painfully slow i was flooded with messages from people who were extremely upset with our portrayal of don cherry last episode some people and don't react to this some people went as far as to call us hateful and objectively we

were not but you disagreed with us so much you're like that's hateful and you're you're you're you're you're putting him in the sewer and the guy's a legend and blah blah blah but in in explaining i went through my dms and in explaining and re-explaining why i felt the way i did about this particular subject i don't live the dawn cherry thing every day it's different for somebody who's person of color person you know different gender you know things like that but in just this one day going and explaining and re-explaining re-explaining was such a pain in the ass so i can only imagine what it's like for people i can only imagine but you start to literally any woman on twitter yeah oh my god this is what i'm talking about right there's some accounts where i'm just

like god this this just looks so exhausting yeah it's terrible and you give specific examples and what i found was some some just responded negatively and continued to and it's never those people are never actually arguing they're just saying you're a snowflake you're a bitch you're a cuck you're whatever it is some respectfully disagreed and said you know i still don't see it that way and then you had others who started to at least see why people were upset and and i know it's annoying and i know it's impossible over and over to re-explain this stuff why something so obvious to you you've lived it you believe it it hit you this way whatever it was it could be dawn cherry be anything else why why is it so obvious to me

and you the idiot you idiot moron does not understand this this is so easy yeah but you got to remember that they're coming from a different perspective too and i think if you can stand it and a lot of people get really annoyed by it there is value if you can stay patient enough and remember look after yourself first to try to continue to patiently and kindly explain your point of view change is slow and i got it the fabric of our society guys is changing hugely very quickly. And there will be divisions. There are divisions. But if we stay as patient as we can with each other, which is something we've all not been good at, we're going to we're eventually going to work our way to a new equilibrium where, you know, more people are included,

treated fairly overall, happier. I'm looking forward to that day. But then what's going to happen is several generations or a generation later, it's going to happen again. It's going to keep changing. And one thing I want to say is with Hockey Night specifically, they have an opportunity right now to take a show which in my opinion and i'm just not going to mince words here has been pretty slow this year my opinion is that hockey night in canada has not been representative of the majority of hockey fans that i know that we talk to all the time i think it represents a certain part of the population but because it runs on canada's national broadcaster and it is owned by one of canada's biggest telecoms i believe it should

represent more and i don't know what that looks like but this is their opportunity to have better voices different voices different points of view and different age groups there's an opportunity to modernize this broadcast that has lost touch lost touch with its audience and it has it absolutely has you have we are living right now in a seminal moment for many reasons and this is a small one yeah americans europeans you you don't understand what this broadcast used to mean it's enormous yes it is enormous and i've said this repeatedly uh the the canada channel the only channel in canada from south like that is it's not totally untrue it's not totally untrue cbc and Hockey Night in Canada specifically

is that big a part of the cultural fabric. Right. Right. Or was. And could be again. What a great way of putting it. Damn. I think that they've I think that they have tried to hang on to what they had and then tried

a few modernization things. They tried to get Strombo in there. I don't think they introduced him properly. Kind of left him out for the Wolves. You don't just, it's like, oh we're going to pull Ron McLean out and throw it to Strombo. No. What you do is you make Strombo the secondary host and you send him out a lot of interviews and then you work his way up.

When Ron McClain was ready to retire, then Strombo takes in the seat. There you go. Right? You don't just go, Strombo, everybody. Here he is. What they need to do now is take this season, finish it out, and start planning right now for what next season looks like. This broadcast...

Is this a rebuild year? This is a rebuild year for Hockey Night in Canada. They are... The panels are smaller. They've got a massive studio that they don't use. They're not using the angles on it anymore. They're not. They used to.

5,000 square foot studio, isn't it? Or more? It's big. It's huge. It's big and there's several... It's several sets, really. It is. This is their opportunity to get out there.

They've got some of those guys. They've got some brilliant guys over at Hockey Night in Canada, Punjabi, which I would start with and go from there. Bring in some new voices, guys. Bring in some new talking heads. It was, and it's 25 years old, that idea. Isn't it? Punjabi's been around a long time.

I don't know about 25, but it's been around for a long time. I want to say more than 10 years. And I'll wrap it up. I know this has been long, and I appreciate you guys hanging in here. It is time for Hockey Night in Canada to move on. And what I believe is this broadcast, five years from now, will be far stronger than it would have been had they continued down the road they were going on. I believe that this broadcast is going to come back and come back in a big way, assuming those in charge are ready to make those moves. And they've been very conservative in who they brought in.

But I think now it's time to take a few risks. I think now is if you don't take risks now, you're taking a massive risk. If you don't introduce new names and go, you know what? We're going to try it. Maybe it won't work. Next year, we'll try someone else. But if you don't try new things here That broadcast is going to completely lose touch

Because it's like a ship That's leaving port There's one rope Let's throw some more ropes into that boat And bring it back into the dock You know what I'm saying It's a terrible thing But we

Talk to me Talk to me on my level I'm a 31 year old man And I can't relate to it I'm a 31 year old White dude Who can't relate to a hockey broadcast I can't

And I haven't been able to for years It's time It's time Do either of you I'll ask you guys as the one Rogers employee And you guys are bell scum Do you guys watch Hockey Night in Canada with the sound on? I do

Yeah, I do Why'd you answer like that? Because I don't watch the commercials But I watch the What? That's the backbone of broadcasting, Jesse I watch the broadcast with the sound on, yes. Okay.

Adam? I do. I do, but I'm not always paying attention. Right. Okay. I'm usually on the second screen sometimes. I'm tweeting, if I can tweet. The other thing I do,

I do tell everybody to be quiet for headlines. Headlines is the thing. Yeah. I love headlines. Move that. If you think it's hilarious that there's these betting favorites, like CP24 was running today. That's our local 24-hour news channel, by the way,

for anybody not from Toronto. we're running like, who are the odds-on favorites to replace Don Cherry? Nobody. The segment is done. Segment's done. It's never coming back. It's over. Oh, Brian Burke's gonna... What? No. No. And you know what? It's nothing. I think Brian... He's not even a coach. Exactly. I don't think...

The segment's done. They're not gonna do that anymore. That segment was built for Don Cherry because only Don Cherry could do that segment. It's over. And so that is over. So now they have to reimagine things, and I'm excited for that because usually when there's pressure and there's a big vacuum like that, it means good change can happen.

And there's a lot of smart people over there. And I imagine that they can look at this as an opportunity to create something new. Yeah, and I don't know. I'm just going to sound like a company man, but I walk in that building. Oh, you are, Steve. I know. How does the noise go?

What? Oh, da-da-da-da. I thought you were doing the Adams family. No, I walk in that building. So I walked in Sportsnet today, pre-protest. By the way, 30 people showed up to that.

If that. With a sign that said Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself. Yeah, stupid. Anyway, let's not get sidetracked by that. Anyway, so I walk into the Sportsnet building. I walked into CBC yesterday. And I'm a Rogers employee, but I'm not stupid. I know how horrible everything looks.

Right. I know it's been a tough six years. But you also know the good people that are working there that are trying. Yeah. Hard working people. Yeah, especially behind the scenes and people whose faces you'll probably never see. And I just go, okay, there's something here. Like there's hope, right?

And all you ever hear about are the layoffs. You know, we can't all be the athletic and start with zero. And just be hiring all the time and stealing people. Just be hiring because you're starting at zero. They don't have layoffs because they don't have anyone. They just hired all these people in England. Well, yeah. The previous number was zero.

We can't all be that. Also, the realities of broadcast have changed. I don't think people realize that there's no money in television anymore. I don't think people get it. Not yet, anyway. You're going to start to see it, especially the Americans. The Americans have not seen it yet. It's starting, and it's coming.

You hear the way they keep the statistics for TV and radio. And keep track of who's watching. It's archaic. Those are phony numbers. It's red dead redemptive. Like it's Arthur scribbling in his journal. Hey, this one person in Nebraska represents 10,000 people in and around Nebraska. It's insane.

Our YouTube channel has more accurate statistics than a broadcast organization that we are rated by on radio that's 50 years old. The average person who sends out an Instagram photo and the like count, the like count is more accurate than a view on a television screen. That's one-to-one. That's a person interacted up. Then you get the count of the stat. With a TV watch, a watch isn't a watch. A watch represents all of these different algorithms. So it's not accurate at all.

It's at a base level. It's made up. But anyway, I see all these good people. They do good work. A lot of them are getting yelled at. Some in person, apparently. And you got to hire extra security and all that fun stuff. Super cool.

There's hope here Of course Things are changing I just sound The reason I sound so somber Is I just feel so bad for everyone I work with And I know a few people in particular Had probably the worst week of their professional lives

And had nothing to do with it Yeah they couldn't control it Not decision makers at all Just dealing with the reaction Yes And we'll continue to the entire season by the way Yeah. Oh, my God. I want to say a few things. Well, let's say they do do what, I mean, I'm not in charge at Sportsnet. Bart Yabsley mentioned me in an email. I've actually never met him, though. So I'm really a guppy in this pond here. I think what most people assume

At least for week one Is you move headlines up To the Coach's Corner slot And then you do a feel-good story in second intermission You move Rudy's take I don't know You extend Rudy's take Rudy's take redux

Elliot's going to get trashed CJ is going to get trashed Amber is going to get trashed I mean, they're all going to get trashed But whoever shows up first intermission is going to get completely clobbered and they won't deserve it at all. Like just like kind people trying to do a good job. Sometimes you got to know, like, like, are those people that are clobbering me? Are they worth even worrying about?

No, but there's thousands of them. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like sometimes, you know, hey, well, they're stupid. Yeah, well, there's a shit ton. So there is that. Another thing, so maybe trying to, even looking past a lot of the, well, I mean, the issue at the center of everything, which was Don saying you people. Some people have been asking me, hey, why don't you have Don on the podcast?

And I'll say something that I don't think I've publicly said on the show. Don will never be on this show. Even if he has to be, I don't think he would be, but holy shit, he's been on every other show. Um, I have had the opportunity to interview Don Cherry and sorry, and a little side note, Dave Bedini wrote a really insightful piece on Don Cherry and the, why did we take all these things that he said for so long and even go, Hey, shut up. Grapes is talking. I didn't know that. I should read that. It's really insightful and pretty direct.

Don Cherry is a person that I met within the past year, shook hands with in the past year, uh, taken a picture with in the past year. and interviewed in the past year. And you used to have him as a regular guest on your Saturday radio program, did you not? Well, I was just a fill-in, right? And here's the reality with that show. So Don would do Coach's Corner. I was filling in with Rob Pizzo doing Hockey Central Saturdays, which was a show on, I want to say it was on Satellite Radio and also on Sportsnet,

but it would change during game hours and all that. Whatever, it doesn't matter. After Coach's Corner, Don would just show up. In the studio with you. Yes, like, cause, well, cause it's not really a studio, it's an office, but it's like relatively soundproof. So you can just walk in, it's just open air. Um, and he walked in and I think I told this story. Uh, he just walked in with a tin of cookies and he just starts handing out tins of cookies. Uh, you know, uh, he was super nice to me. uh i think there's a difference between it's it's been an interesting exercise in what is um what what is a good person who does bad things and what is a bad person who does good things i think that's been an interesting little debate um because people go well he's done this he's done

that he's done that and i'm like well i can't argue that those are all good things but what Is that a bad thing coupon? All right. Is that, is that what that's supposed to buy? Yeah. But anyway, I've interviewed Don Cherry and in terms of him coming on this show,

so we get to see him with highlights and viz covering it, uh, for seven minutes next to the most gifted host in the country behind Adam Wilde. That's a lie. Uh, Ron McClain. So Ron McClain is unbelievable.

Unbelievable. Getting to interview Don Cherry for 15 minutes with a co-host made me realize how good Ron McClain is at his job. And listen, man, Don and long-form conversations don't get along. I think there was a time where they would have got along swimmingly, and he could have yelled and screamed at you for as much time. He was always begging for more time. And the last thing Don needs right now Is more time in front of a microphone I don't think

It's fair to him even I think it's something he wants to do It's like a first liner It's like At some point every You know at some point the NHL Said you know what Jager you can't play here anymore Yeah

And you gotta go somewhere else Same to Jerome McGinley Shut up Jesse No, but it doesn't take away any of the things that Yager accomplished, or Aginla accomplished, or indeed, Don Cherry. But like, I was listening back to it, because, I mean, you interviewed Don Cherry, you're sort of glowing in the moment, and you want to go back and listen to your interview with Don Cherry. And I was just like, this is uncomfortable. What was uncomfortable? I was just like, well, I was, I'm like, like, I don't think I'm a gifted interviewer.

I'm like, what, did I do a bad job? No, I was with Rob. conversation was the conversation stilted was it like what was it it just didn't go anywhere there wasn't a theme um and i'm not saying it's because he's old but he is old and had a lot of difficulty he swore and like he didn't mean to he didn't realize he was swearing yeah um you know told a lot of just ancient stories no one cares about no one cares about listen i And to that point, there will be a time for everybody in every career, in every show, in their lifetime. When you're done.

When you're done. We're done here. Yeah. That will come. This show will end. The show I'm on with Virgin Mornings will end. Everything. And the key is, when you're in the moment, have as much fun with it as you can.

Be as kind to people as you can. Because one day it's all over and you can't redo it. And I've said this on the show before. Never heard a co-worker complain about them. No. so here's what here's what i would say to that for for those throwing a parade that this is the way his career ended um i i can't get in line with that i understand there was a lot of people waiting a long time for him to be like okay it's time to pack it in and you

know what we you know that you know what the change moment for me was it was 2013 i was watching hockey night in canada in my mom's basement where i was living at the time and he and this is a pretty famous one uh where he went on and said that he didn't believe women should be in the dressing room around naked guys and that women needed to be on pedestals whatever that's that's making the rounds that is of course now at the time i even tweeted like what the hell don't you cannot say are you are you in your mind that's his generation and ron went back at him ron did go back it because he had time to and heard what he said the so i understand why people have been waiting for a long time for don to go i get it for anybody to go this way is sad it's sad you know

and i i hold on let me finish this sure sure i think it's sad because not because we couldn't see it coming not because it wasn't deserved not because he hadn't deserved it several times before this wasn't even the worst thing he's ever said oh my god it's not even on the mount rushmore what's sad is that a guy who had the platform he had for as long as he had it did not grow and i don't want i don't love the idea for me personally as a broadcaster on a small as far as far as smaller scale i don't love the idea of that happening to me I don't love the idea of going out that way

I hope that when I'm able to go out or whenever whatever company I'm working for at the time, depending upon what corporate buyout happens when I do genuinely love working for the company I'm working for right now, it's been a blast we've had a great year that said, one of these days they're going to look at me

and say, you know what, you're just not a fit anymore, but I hope they say that to me before I force it on them and that's that's how like people are like yes he's gone and i get why but i still think it's sad that it happened at all and i wish it happened the correct word for this entire situation it's just when you look at every single aspect of you look at his tv appearances you look at what he said you just look and then the outrage it's all just sad like you never want an awesome

couple days no you never want people to be reacting this way and to be passionate because of this, and for somebody who has a legacy like that for it to end that way, it's all just sad. I will say this, like, with people throwing a parade and everything, Don did get exactly what he wanted, though. Because

there were multiple interviews, and they all came out. The one quote I saw is he wanted to go out on a shield. Don Cherry was never going to quit. No. Like, in the power rankings of how he was going to go out,

I think number one was fired, and I think number two was death, and number three was quit. He was never going to. He was never going to. He wanted to go out in his shield. He got exactly what he wanted. And now he's doing this media tour, obviously not to apologize. It's like he thinks that it's going to continue. So what's next?

Now he's getting exactly what he wanted. I think the realization for him will hit home this weekend because what we've already seen in the interviews is he's gone from I'd never apologize and I don't regret anything to telling City News and 680 News last night that he would have apologized this Saturday for his choice of words. Three interviews came out right away. It was City News, The Global, and the CTV. And in each one, his response was different to the exact same questions. The questions of what he said and what he meant and then whether or not he would apologize. And then he would awkwardly turn whether or not he wanted to take a shot at Ron also in the interview. And it was three completely different mindsets going at three interviews that appeared to be, what, like hours apart?

So is this even fair? Right. Is this, and I hate to be the one to ask the question, but is this a guy that can keep those thoughts straight? This is where I take a step back. Me too. Unfortunately. Me too. There's no further we can take it.

But beyond all that, I don't like throwing, I don't love tap dancing on someone's grave. I don't like that. It doesn't make me feel good. You handle it the way you want to handle it. I just think at the end of the day you've got a you've got an opportunity

and I like to look forward to this you've got an opportunity with Hockey Night in Canada to really reimagine what this is and really go after it get young, get exciting imagine a Hockey Night in Canada that you're excited to watch for more than just the hockey. This will be the highest

rated one in many years long time. I'm pumped don't you just want to see what happens? You want to see if it's good? You want to see if it sucks? Now they're not tied to a legacy anymore. Now it's like, well, we're adrift. What do we do? That's kind of cool.

And I think we're going to see some cool change there. And that's the part that I am excited about. I genuinely am. I think that there are so many smart people in that building. Man, how could they not? They're going to figure it out. And you know what Ron did the day after all that? He worked all day.

Yeah. He went to Will and he worked all day and talked to literally thousands of people. Yeah. yeah yeah yeah um on the patience and kindness thing i'm gonna call myself out by the way can i just ask sure is that unfair i don't think so was that unfair the patience and kindness thing no no no is that unfair to ask people because i'm not a person who's been through those some of those things and i don't live that every day there's there's like there was a there was a good debate recently with like the ellen degeneres george bush thing and she was like you know what

it's okay to have people who, you know, have differences and all that, and people a lot of people were like, you know what, that is a good message, that's right, and a lot of other people were like, well, wait a sec, you should dig in and believe in something. Like, maybe,

you know, maybe that's a great conversation to have. Maybe it's a horrible example. Yeah, and actually I initially thought the same thing, and then I took my tweet down, because people were like, uh, maybe be looking at the... And they were absolutely right. There was a little bit more to that.

We should be kinder to people. Yep. George Bush. Hmm. Right. Don't know about that. There are some questionable decisions as president there. We don't need to get into it. I always think of a Samuel L. Jackson quote from the Boondock Saints. Do you remember when he played Gin Rummy?

He played a white guy who was one of those white guy rappers, but it was Samuel L. Jackson who voiced it. He's been in so many movies. I'm not sure. He said, there are no knowns Things you know you know And there are known unknowns Things you don't know but you know you don't know them

And then there are unknown unknowns Things you don't know You don't know And I think in this entire situation you have to look at There are things here you don't realize That you're missing and you just Don't know you don't know them Whether it be you don't know you're saying

Something racist whether it be you don't Know you should be acting with kindness when you don't Know you should be reacting Against somebody who's prejudiced right now like they're just you just need to take some patience sometimes and watch these things unfold and realize that sometimes you don't know what you don't know if that makes any sense you don't need to you don't need to come in jump in on every argument right right i'm definitely going to listen back to this part it was really good but yeah that's just it's just there there's some

patience needs to be exercised here but there also needs to be action taking absolutely bingo and i well and there was yeah um so me calling myself out so one person was like uh well i got a bunch of people just straight up said fuck you which whatever that's fine yeah it's i mean that's just the day that ends up why i wouldn't work online honestly yeah like we could do any show on anything and a bunch of people will say there were just a couple more i mean oh no what a weird what a weird day i'm having right um no but one person did say something to me i don't even remember what was and looking back i don't think it was particularly inflammatory but i i quote tweeted this person and straight up said hit the fucking bricks now i don't regret what i was standing up

for in my statement you regret how i regret how that's a little that's a little uh i don't know pulling out a bazooka for your rat problem or something like it sorry i'm not calling that person a rat either. My brain's not working at the moment. That's like buying a new car because you need to replace a tire. Yeah, and like there could have been a conversation I could have had there which

it's, when you're getting so much, it's really hard to be like, I'm going to patiently sit down with all this. And you did say it. I do want to acknowledge that it's something I don't have to live every day so it's far be it for me to tell you what to do but it's just a suggestion. And then you go, I'm going to make this better by doing a video on it and it doesn't

make it better and then you go, I'm going to have this tweet thread and then that that all of a sudden sprouts shit branches that you then have to prune and then or you don't have to prune them because you didn't need to plant the shit tree and to begin with um but like i i don't know that i handled that pretty poorly and i don't i see i did what i so often see and criticize in my head which is when people who i believe to be in the right uh go at people a certain way and i'm like what's the goal here like is the goal to be right and that's it or is the goal to change hearts and minds and i don't think i changed any hearts or minds by saying hit the fucking bricks

you know what i mean he probably was like you know he's right I'm going to change my ways Can we just all And also stop going to Twitter For a place of nuance and conversation Yeah you're not going to get it Not even nuance like that would be Whoa we got nuance

Just having a simple conversation Doesn't exist on Twitter And people need to stop looking Towards Twitter for that 280 characters is not enough for nuance on any subject Even with a thread and also I'm not reading your 50 tweet thread Shout out to Jeff Blair for being like

Oh yeah I'm on the radio I'll just talk about it I'll just talk about it for six and a half minutes You don't need to get out your feelings every time on Twitter It's because it's never going to come across As you want it to because you're not Speaking like it's limiting Your vocabulary that you can use

And it's going out to just this limited Amount of people and you shouldn't be Voicing things that are so delicate You shouldn't be voicing this grandiose Opinion just out there in the world and expect a reaction that's not going to come back to you the same way it's being put out. On the patience angle, there was a moment where I had to

actually take a step back and go, wait a sec, who am I arguing with? Because there were grapes misspoke and it's ridiculous that you fired him over misspeaking and grapes was right. You people agree with each other.

Oh yeah, I pulled you people. You guys agree with each other, but you also very don't. Yeah. Those are two completely different things. It's like those two groups decided they were allies. So, okay, let's go at it together. But you're saying extraordinarily different things.

One is, Grapes misspoke and shouldn't have said that. And he regrets saying it and he would have said it differently. Which Don said. Ish. Ish. Later. Sometimes. Yeah, sometimes.

And then there's Just out and out he was right And immigrants this and immigrants that And at that moment I'm like You know I don't think I'm going to get a lot Accomplished here But also saying nothing sucks And also there

A lot comes from standing Up for marginalized Communities especially People in power who stand up for those communities So it always helps to say things Oh and one thing I said last episode that a couple of people misinterpreted and listening back i understand why so let me clarify when i said uh when i was referring to the people don was referring to i said those people

aren't watching don now i had a couple people who are immigrants go uh i'm watching and what i what what i said in clarification was well i'm shocked that you are because we've provided such an unwelcoming atmosphere for you right so you're here anyway yes you're here anyway so you're you're here like out of the kindness of your heart optimism because i love the game yeah like i i just love the simplicity of the story of uh like nazim kadri's dad like i i just where he came here and he i mean this is simplifying it even more so but it sounds like he came here and was like all right canada what's cool to do here hockey i'm into hockey who's who's won the most championships, okay? I guess I'll cheer

for them, and my son is going to play hockey. Right. And then listening to Tom Cochran big leagues on the way to the hospital. Yeah. Which is a song about hockey. Yeah. And, you know, I feel like there's, there used to be a ton of that story, and there isn't as much, because it's like

years and years ago we decided we got this club, and some people can come in the club and whatever, but like it's really difficult for them to get in. Right. You know what I mean? We're getting off... You're not not allowed, but yeah, no, I, and, and a hundred percent. And we talked about that last episode. I don't want to get too far, far down that road because we've done that.

We've said that. I think the reality is it's, it's a tough time right now for everyone. I want you to, I also want you to keep something in mind, like less than 1% of the population has Twitter. If you're on it, it is not a representation of how the world is. And in fact, of the people that actually have Twitter, it's like less than 6% tweet regularly. And people went after me when I said this the first time. But it's actually true.

There are like 6% are power users and like 70% are like, I just look at it. Even Mike Babcock's got a Twitter account. But he looks. He doesn't tweet. So it's 1% and then of that 1%, 6%. Yeah. So it's like social media freaks like us. And so that doesn't diminish

The fact that it has an enormous influence But I would tell you That Twitter's influence is outsized Twitter's influence Is inaccurate To me To how the population feels On one side or the other

I think a lot more people are far more moderate Than what you'll find there And I also think a lot more people are more well thought out But if you've ever argued with your partner On text message You know that shit gets lost in the wash I think that's why people go blow up on Twitter because it's like this. You don't argue with your partner over text.

Don't argue with people on the Internet. Even if you go to one of these Facebook posts and you see, oh, there's 2,000 comments on this and 2,000 of those are negative. There's 35, there's 40 million people in this country. 2,000 people doesn't represent the country. Nothing. And that amount of people felt strong enough to leave a comment. You're only getting the most passionate responses. Which will be, by their nature, polarizing.

Yeah, no one's going to go, well, you know, I understand this, but also this. Well, I don't know what to think. Hey, I've written a book. Let me put it in a Facebook post. Yeah. Right? Like, I've written a book on this subject. And most subjects we're talking about, you could write many books on.

Oh, my God. So, listen, the long and the short is this. It's time for Hockey Night in Canada to move on. I can guarantee you that in five years, this show is going to be better. I think in two years, it'll be better. Oh, yeah. They're going to reimagine it. I believe that they're going to go forward with some new and different and fun voices.

I think they need to make that show fun. It's not a lot of fun. It's a lot of, well, you know, bah. It's a lot of, here's some information. It's a lot of, well, here's an old story from the 70s. And I'm not trying to bash what Hockey Night in Canada is because I used to work at Rogers. In fact, I loved my time at Rogers. I had a wonderful time there.

They were amazing to me. They're really, truly, they were great. They let you on sports radio. 100%. And said, can you babysit Steve? And you said yes. I know the managers there. I know the on-air talent there.

They're all great. And I know that the producer, Jesse and Steve, you guys have worked closer with them. They're great people. This is not a... I thoroughly enjoyed my time at Rogers. I did too. And people from diverse backgrounds. Yeah.

Like, people don't realize, because again, they're producers. You'll never see their face. But like, I feel like the perception is... Is that the on-air matches the off-air? Right. And listen, I can't blame people for thinking that all of, every aspect of hockey is just an army of white dudes. And I can't blame you.

I really can't blame you. The NHL teams sort of reflect that. Yeah, I cannot blame you. But understand it is different behind the scenes. Yeah. And I, so here's the thing. Hockey Night in Canada, my hope and my challenge, not that they're listening to me, is that you guys make this broadcast fun again.

You guys make this fun. the NHL should be fun, hockey should be fun and we had people on there that were not making it fun and it was not going in a fun direction for years let's go, let's get back to what Hockey Night in Canada was supposed to be, it was always inclusive

it was supposed to be, anyway, supposed to be family oriented, that's what the inclusivity part is it was supposed to be cutting edge in broadcast terms, cutting edge in stats, cutting edge I saw that guy from the Boston Globe, Kevin DuPont or whatever, saying, I hope

they don't replace Don Cherry with this fancy stats guy. Dude, come on, let's do that. It doesn't have to be that way. It doesn't have to be like, well, we're going to talk Corsi. I feel like it's like... He's snarky too. I don't even know if he was serious. Who cares? The point I'm trying to make is like, let's Hockey Night Canada was supposed

to be the Bible of hockey every Saturday night. Let's make it that again. Let's get jacked for this shit. This is exciting. We get an opportunity here. The last The last chapter is over It was extremely successful For a very long time

There are some legendary towering figures In that chapter New chapter Fair? Yeah, absolutely And that doesn't mean I want to be a part of it I saw a few articles that mentioned me Really?

And I'm like, dude Why wouldn't you want to be a part of it? You should want to be a part of it You'd be great I don't think you'd be coach's corner My strategy of not asking for stuff Has gone Well

You know, if someone goes Hey, you ready for this? I'll go, I don't know, probably not But I suppose so But right now You know Adam, Enemy at the Gates I'm sure one of your favorite films It is a brilliant film

Something you often talk about One Russian runs in with his gun The other runs in with the bullets Another Russian comes in and grabs the gun Two wars in a row they did that. I mean, I guess I'd rather be the second one than the first, but I did just watch the first one get it. You know, it's...

I'm interested to see what they decide and who's part of it. Like, I work there, but I'm also a viewer. I'm just as excited as all of you. I'm just as interested. Beautiful. Well, I think we can wrap it up there, huh? Is that cool?

Yeah. Do we have anything else we need to do? Say? How are you guys doing? We're at an interesting point in society, I'll say that. Yeah. Sure are. A lot of change.

It's exhausting, isn't it? It's good, though. It's good, but it's exhausting. I think we can all admit it's exhausting. Both sides can admit it's exhausting, right? Whatever side of the coin you fall on on this or any other debate, it's tiring. Are you not socially a little spent? Because I am.

Sure, but exhausting is putting, I think, a bad connotation on it. Oh, sorry. It's growing pains are tough. Sure. It's confusing. Sorry. And I think a lot of it relates back to what I was talking about, where I had to actually back up and go, wait, who am I arguing with? Like, I always love, I don't know, I'm weird in this way where I like reading the arguments.

And it's always funny when you see the argument where halfway through they go, wait a sec, I agree with that. What are you talking about? Yeah. Yeah. It's. What do you mean, Jesse? Do you want to extrapolate on that? On which point?

Well, you just kind of brought up the fact like it's it's it's an interesting time Yeah, yeah, no the the change that was happened happening is it's very good it is because it seems to be swinging extremely and a Positive direction of inclusivity and I hope the people fighting for it Don't stop because the only way that the change happens is if people are fighting for the change Yeah, agreed hearts and minds though. Absolutely hearts and minds absolutely for it sometimes people won't be reasonable and it is time to tell them to hit the fucking bricks i don't think i uh i aim that shot quite truly but uh yes yes patience doesn't mean give up or

back down and with that we're gonna leave you thank you for listening and if you've listened this far we really appreciate it and we really appreciate you no matter what background you're from no matter what is going on in your world we appreciate having you here and it's exciting times ahead unless you're tucker calls yeah if you're listening and you're tucker you can take your bow tie and fuck off tucker carlson i was about to say the exact same thing the steve dangle podcast follow the guys on twitter at steve underscore dangle at adam w y l d e and at jesse blake brought to you by panago pizza order at panago.com and stuff your face with deliciousness connection complete