The Steve Dangle Podcast - The D | February 26, 2020

Episode Date: February 27, 2020

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, who wore the crown (00:00), Leafs beat the Lightning (11:00), Jake Muzzin is out for four weeks with a broken hand (21:00), Hutchinson, Freddy, and Jack Campbell (36:00), let's talk for a second about Mitch Marner (40:00), THE HOTTEST Tavares take from local sports radio (54:00), Joe Thorton to Toronto? (1:05:00), Tyson Barrie was NOT traded (1:17:00), who won the trade deadline in the East? (1:18:00), who won the trade deadline in the West? (1:29:30), Trade deadline WTF moment (1:38:00), Buffalo Sabres (1:39:00), Andrew Ladd and Zach Parire trade (1:55:00), and the press conference: more on the Houston Astros saga (2:04:00). Originally aired: February 26, 2020 Watch the full episode here: https://youtu.be/QgQR0yDTc9s Merch: https://teespring.com/en-GB/stores/fancydangleshirts Follow us on Twitter: @Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram: @SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Subscribe to us on iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/steve-dangle-podcast/id669828195?mt=2 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Panago Pizza presents S-S-D-P-P, the Steve Dangle Podcast, with your hosts, Steve Dangle, Adam Wilde, and Jesse Blake. Let's go! Leafs win! Woo! Stars showed up. Woo! The kids showed up. Woo!

Jake Muzzin broke his hand again. Woo, woo, woo. Woo! Am I right? That's no fun. That's no fun. Is it not, though? I think we could have some fun.

We might have some fun. Well, did you... Listen. You know, when my team's best remaining defenseman breaks his hand, you know what I want? An inspirational video posted by Kyle Dubas. That was the Chinese farmer video, right? That he posted about that?

I think it was. I'm going to have to check that out. I didn't get to watch it in full. Oh, Adam. He's so deep. You know what? The first time I heard it, I was like, Dubas, shut up. I'm mad at you.

The second time, I was like, you are wise, as you are handsome. Luke Fox tweeted today, imagine if they had traded Barry. And I said, yep, imagine if they had. Would have had to throw Troy Stetcher in that first-round pick on the ice. That would have been a problem. Quick thing, we've partnered with Crown Royal, obviously, to live generously. And our friends at Crown Royal have generously offered up the chance to win tickets to the Sea of the Toronto Maple Leafs this season. Maybe with Jake Muzzle.

because the contest runs until March 27th. If you're a resident of Toronto, visit crlivegenerously.com and tell Crown Royal how you've been inspired to act generously for a chance to win a pair of tickets. There are a few prizes left throughout this contest period, and the prizes range from $422 to $834. Odds of winning each prize depend on the number of entries received by an applicable draw date during the contest period.

The contest closes, as I said, March 27th at 12 p.m. Entrants must be 19 and a resident of Toronto to enter. Sorry, 19 plus, that is. The selected entrant must answer a mathematical skill test in question in order to win. Good luck. CRLiveGenerously.com. Let's get into Who Wore the Crown. I am bursting.

Why are you bursting? Say the thing so I can say it. Why not? Why not? Pour yourself in a friend of Crown Royal because it's time to talk about Who Wore the Crown, where we, with the help of you, recognize one Leaf player who gives it their all for the blue and white because it's our town, it's our crown. It's not what you have, but what you have to give.

We're going to crown a leaf that lives generously by giving it all for the team. Brought to you by your friends at Crown Royal. Live generously, and life will treat you royally. Let's get into it. Steve Dangle. Smart guy, Adam Love. Very smart guy. You're a smart guy?

Yeah. Okay. I think I know who you're going to pick. I think I know who Jesse's going to pick. I think. You don't know these things. I don't know. I don't know a lot.

So I know who my pick is, but I think Adam's going to pick that person. Sometimes When you talk a big old bunch of shit about someone And they do well You gotta give it to them Oh, listen I'm here for it Please, please prove me wrong

Based on what we said last episode I'm ready for that, that's what I want I'm gonna give it to Travis Dermott Why the Dermster? You know what Well, it could have been a Dermster fire I see what you did there You see, because, again, big brain, big old brain.

Listen, when Muzzin went down, the Leafs got outshot 14-3. It was all bad. It was very bad. All that was left was Dermott and Sandin. And Sandin took a penalty in his first shift of the third, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. It was all bad. And Sandin played five minutes and ten seconds in the first two periods on for both goals.

Yeah. Well, and he was on for all three. And then he was on for the third, yeah. And we'll get into that. But it was basically on the left side up to Sandin, who is 19. Like, I have a hard time going at him too hard on account of he could be doing his victory lap in high school right now. Travis Dermott, even still, I mean, he's been in the league for a while, but he's on his ELC. He's coming up on the end of it, but he's on his entry level.

And I thought he had a good game. He battled. It wasn't the Mona Lisa. It wasn't perfect. But he got in there, and he did what he knows how to do, and they won the frigging game. So I'm going to give it to Travis Dermott because forget the third period against Tampa.

It sounds like he's going to be relied on pretty heavily for the next four weeks. I just want to throw this in there. Sandin and Travis Dermott basically split the third period in shifts. So Sandin might have played five minutes in the first period. By the third period, he played 9.34 just in the third period alone. He played half the third period. And Travis Dermott played the other minute 12. Or 11.

Sorry, minute 12. 11 minutes and 12 seconds, basically. In the third. Yeah. That's what he played in the third. Travis Dermott played 11 minutes in one NHL period. Yes. They didn't have a choice.

That was the thing. Yeah. But, like, I mean, what do you do? Right. What do you do? They don't cancel the game. Mm-hmm. And there's no emergency defender.

So, he just had to do it. That's true. Imagine. Just pick a guy out of the audience? That'd be worse. I could see how that would be worse. Yeah, for sure. Listen, my crown is a collective crown.

Interesting. Now, what did I say last episode? What was mostly my point? My name is Adam Wilde. Montreal is going to trade Jeff Beechery. That was my second mostly point. And we'll just forget about that because it didn't happen. I think you said the Leafs will beat the Lightning.

Did I say that? I don't know. Okay. Well, what I do want to say is this. The Big Four showed up. All of them showed up. And that's what the Leafs need to do to win. There was a lot of people, specifically Mitch Marner fan people,

and they are their own subsection, who messaged me and were very upset with me and went about it in various different ways. And I understand. I get it. I understand why you're upset with me. You should have been upset with Mitch, but you were upset with me for calling out Mitch specifically. And let me say this.

William Nylander, Mitch Marner, Austin Matthews, and John Tavares all got at least a point last night with Tavares getting two goals and Nylander with one of the best goals we've seen in a Leafs jersey this season. That Nylander goal was so good that it distracted from how friggin' sexy that Tavares backhander was. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was great, too. But let me tell you this. The Leafs will live and die by the big four this season and into the playoffs

and in seasons to come, as long as the four of them are together, making close to $40 million on the roster. They live and die by how those guys perform. All four of those guys are locked up for the next four years. And all four of those guys showed up against a very, very, very good Tampa team. So my crown goes to all four of them. You guys deserve it. Thank you for coming and showing exactly why you're getting paid that much.

Jesse Blake. Saturday night, Leafs lose the game to a Zamboni driver who works for them. Have we talked about that? I don't think anybody has mentioned it. Did you watch Colbert? No. They had a Zamboni driver on. Same guy.

It was interesting. What? It's so small world. Actually, Tim and Sid were like, hey, we should talk to David Ayers. I was like, nope. I was like, I'm going to put that on mute and feed the baby because I don't care to hear that anymore. Last night on Ice Surfing, so it was a very busy night. I had a difficult time getting on.

And Kevin Biexa was the co-host instead of Jason York. And I had some tweets. That's my job. Got to come up with some tweets. And I had David Ayers tweets. People were making David Ayers jokes, you know, because Tampa was losing it. Oh, bust out the emergency goalie. And BX just goes, hey, when you get on in another hour and a half,

make sure you have something other than emergency backup stuff. That's brutal. You can see the exact moment where his heart breaks. Wow. Superman punched my heart. You should have done the impression that that one guy in, what was the, yeah. Vernon Fidler. Yeah.

The Vernon Fidler impression of Kevin BX is one of the... I haven't seen it. Jesse, you have to look it up. I should have busted that out on deadline day. Even Alvin Vigneault, who was his coach at the time, is hysterically laughing on the bench. Yeah. I guess BX was probably chirping him from the bench and he's just... Oh, it's awesome.

It is so very, very good. Are you looking it up right now? Yeah, it comes up on Google there. On the Google machine. You should look it up, or you should watch it. None of you can see it. Those Dallas jerseys suck. It's on the Canucks official YouTube channel.

If you look up why Alan Vigneault was laughing, full story, Canucks TV. The Canucks do social really well, and their YouTube channel's really good, too. And their YouTube community's really good. They have two big YouTubers there. So, Saturday night, Leafs lose to a Zamboni driver. Sunday, Mitch Marner's $10 million aren't on the ice. Oh, 10.893. Oh, my bad.

But William Nylander's modest contract is. He's out on the ice practicing with that same Zamboni draft. How does he get by? Tuesday, shows up to the rink in Tampa, Florida. What does he do? It's where his father used to play. Where his daddy, who he passed, used to play. shows up, scores the game-winning goal between his legs.

What more can William Nylander do? I can't wait to find out. Probably crush a water bomb between his thighs. He's going to put up 35 goals, be second-leading goal scorer on the team after the guy who's probably going to end up leading the league in goals. Maybe. Amazing season. Keeps killing it.

Front of the net player. Yeah, actually he is. He really is. He won't stop scoring goals in front of the net. My crown goes to him. Wow. And that, you know what, that was a great goal. And it was nice.

And one of the best road goal scorers in the entire league. All I could do was watch that game, and I forget who was on the broadcast last night, but whoever was on the broadcast last night doing color was just raving, raving about that goal. I was like, oh, let's see that again. Was it Millen? Yeah. Was it Millen? I think it was Millen.

And I was like, yes, somebody my dad's age is finally going to tell other people my dad's age that William Nylander did something good. That's the biggest game of the season so far. Yes. Until Thursday. Until Thursday. Every game now I think will be the biggest game. And then Nylander shows up like that.

It's undeniable at this point, at this, what are we, 60-whatever games into the season, that he's a fucking star, boys. You can deny anything in this day and age. Now, that's Who Wore the Crown for this week. Brought to you as always by Crown Royal. The next time the puck drops, why not? How about you? No, no, no.

You know, he tries some new things. Why not? Next time the puck drops. Why not? Live generously. How about it? That didn't work. How about you?

I believe that's what you said. Treat your release through. I didn't do it. To a Crown Royal old-fashioned. Woo! All right, Leafs win. Tavares scores twice. Matthews with his career-high 74th point of the season.

Yep. Never done that before. Willie, with the best damn goal ever, and the broadcasters raving about it. Before we get into the Muzz and stuff, because I know that's sort of the main story now, anything from the game that you want to hit on? Obviously, we talked a little bit about it in the Crown segment. We finally got some star players doing star player things. Travis Dermott really stepped up.

In that third period, Rasmus Sandin really stepped up, even though he was against the goal for Yanni Gordon. He's 19, though. um uh what what else do you take away from that game that maybe allows you to trust because there were people like hey do you already have faith in the Leafs again now that they've beaten Tampa and I said no no my faith in the team comes when they meet and they meet whoever in the conference final I don't have the faith um I'm excited I'm pumped I don't have faith it's different I've seen them do stuff like this like last Thursday in Pittsburgh but what are we going to see this thursday in florida that's my question what gives what gives you hope steve dangle oh what gives me

hope um we've been talking about kyle clifford's magical powers and how he's going to get uh the rest of the team to play nastier and we were talking about kapanen who i actually thought except for the breakaway was kind of pedestrian actually against tampa goat for god's sake Threw a hit Threw his body around And would you look at that, it led to a goal For God's sake Actually, so Stephen Stamkos

Did not play in the third Which I didn't even know until after the game But I had to go back to One Mount Pleasant There at Sportsnet and we're Trying to figure out what happened to Stamkos On his last shift And he

Laid two hits One was against Clifford, looked fine and the other was against Goat, which you're not as big as Goat. What are you doing? And I thought his leg sort of buckled, and Tampa called it a lower body injury. So Goat was in there having an impact. Clifford whiffed on the puck, which led to a muzzin goal, so that was great. Sure, he did it on purpose.

And Jason Spezza, I would literally vote for him if he ran for office. He's the best. Isn't he unbelievable? I love him. I love him so much. And then after his goal, did they end up crediting him? No, no, it's Muzzle Guy. No, I thought it would have been.

Yeah, they still gave it to Muzzle. And then after his non-goal, they sent him out there with Matthews and Marner? Yeah, which he does, like, a lot. It's just you've got to sort of look for him. But it's so weird to have the guy that you bring in as the veteran presence, fourth liner, and now we're nearing the playoffs, and it's like, oh, he's the guy we're going to send out on our top line for energy because he's that damn good.

And the guy who you don't play in all 82 games because he's old. Does he look tired? No, he does not look tired. He never looks tired. No. And from what I've heard, too, Toronto's the only place he wants to play now. Good. So if—

Do you have him and Thornton next year? Well, we'll talk about that. But yeah, I mean, that could be pretty fun. Apparently. But the—and Freddie battled, which when Freddie battles, he's at his best. But one of my main negative takeaways— you look at the Leafs defensive personnel

it's awful and you look at it today and holy shit like it's how is that it's almost player for player what they won

the Calder Cup with yeah except for like Vincent Loverdi yeah and Andrew Nielsen and Adam Brooks and oh

well that's not defense he's up the middle damn it oh uh the whole roster no no I mean it's getting there

but um boy the forwards really have no idea what they're doing in their own end um and i didn't like last night maybe tampa just did a much better job of exposing them sandian was on the ice for all three goals and it's it seemed clear to me that tampa was going after him specifically they they look they say 19 year old that's the weak link and on the first goal second goal is pretty easy to explain uh he got

bullied by patrick maroon there's no amount of push-ups he could do that will have him win that net front battle it's just very large man against not as big boy that's how that works but no one had paquette he was completely wide open and that's tavaris hyman and marner out there who he taxed with shutting down pasternak marshand bergeron yeah yeah how did he even get to seven the first and third goal um were sandin taking on two guys with no help and lilligren was on for one and i'm looking at him going what's he supposed to do he's not the flash and i'm looking at hall on the third one going what's he supposed to do too they have no forward support and on the first one it's stamkos passing to kucherov those were both sandin's guy what's he supposed to do

like i wouldn't put any of the three goals on freddie and i wouldn't put any of them on sandin either. The Leafs forwards need to figure it the hell out. And it's different lines. That icing especially, because people were like, well, it's Sandin's icing. I mean, it passed through two Leafs players, that first goal. Passed through Engvall, and I forget the other guy. Oh, it was Kerfoot.

And you look at them, and it's like, why did you let that go? Like, you should have had that puck. He literally lifted up his skate, and it went just right on by. It was weird. And so, I have a hard time blaming him for that. You know, I wonder about the... I didn't even bring it up in the LFR.

No, because it's not worth it. It was a silly sort of line. You know, it just happened. I mean, you can ice the puck and still stop it. Yeah. It's not an automatic goal. Exactly. If you're doing your job.

Yeah. You know? So, you're positive about that game, but then going into Florida. And I wonder about this, too, because Florida's on Thursday, right? Yeah. And they had a big run against Arizona. Arizona fans losing their mind last night. I don't think, home ice, I don't think there was a single Florida penalty.

They were losing their minds. Edmonton's not thrilled about the officiating, too, but we'll get to that later in the show. I think it was Elliott Friedman said he was surprised there wasn't a homicide after the game. Because Rick Talkett, right? Penalties have been wonky this season because the Islanders might set the record for most games without a penalty called against them. They're at like six right now, and the record's nine. Holy shit! Yeah, Friedman was mentioning it in 31 Thoughts.

So I don't know what's going on with the penalties this year, but they're either calling a whole bunch or they're not calling any. And it's not like the Islanders are a soft team, you know? The league, in terms of officiating, is going backward. Wait, sorry. Penalties called against them or in their favor? Against them. So, like, on them. Oh.

Yeah. Weird. I don't mind the fact that certain teams don't have penalties called on them throughout a game because if they didn't do anything to warrant it, that's fine. Sure. But call the things that are penalties and don't try to even them out. What are the odds that an NHL team is going to go 60 minutes without doing something? Well, yeah, true. But if you call two penalties on Steve and then you call one on me just to even it out because it's fairsies, that's stupid.

I think that's ridiculous. No, no, no. Sports are fairsies. That's how you play sports. If you saw Tavares get, like, there was a, I forget who it was, but, like, somebody pushed him again. And then he, like, swung his stick at the end because it was like, dude, what the hell? The ref's right there. I wish the clip was zoomed in on the ref's face because I'd bet every dollar I have that he said, watch the stick.

After all that, Tavares takes this little swipe. Hey, watch the stick. Oh, yeah. Like, looking right at it. And this is why. So I was saying I don't think it's that the refs are bad. Refs saw it. The directive is don't call anything.

The sport's going backwards. And this is so bad for the Leafs. It's not just that it's ramping up to the playoffs, and then in the playoffs it's more violent. It's they bet the farm on the sport going a certain way. And the people in charge at the NHL went, and slammed the brakes on that, and they're going back. So what do you do? You get Kyle Clifford, I guess. But, like, what do you do?

The Leafs bet everything on the sport going in a certain direction, and it's not anymore. Like they just change midstream And it's not that it's going back to like Fighting or something like that It's just that you're allowed to get away with No but it's going to I think fighting is going to make a comeback No way

They let this shit keep going Jean-Gabriel Peugeot got in a fight last night Like come on In his first game? Yeah it was awesome actually That was a great game I didn't see it That's $35 million Jean-Gabriel Peugeot to you

Wow You know what they always say about Lou Stingy Yeah right He signs great contracts Anyway He'd be a good I would love to have him

As my team president I don't want him making any Oh nice decisions I just want him to be The I want him to be The player police force I don't want him to run anything

I just want him to be there To be like Oh are you thinking about Doing something bad tonight Yeah Well you won't Can we create team dad Yeah team dad

Can we be team dad To sit on the bench Team dad, that it's proud of you occasionally, but most of the time just looks at you like, nah, I don't trust you. I like it. That's what I like. Great's not good enough. Yeah, yeah.

That's the kind of team dad I'm after. Great's not good enough. That's right. I want you to be questioning everything. But in all honesty, the Leafs without Muzzin on the back end are not going to look great. And he's been so unbelievable, too. He's hit another gear. I mean, well, he had eight points, I believe, in three games.

Did he? Or something like that. No, was it eight points in three games? Five games. No, he was on like a five-game point streak. He was doing good. And then he was on a six-game point streak because he scored again last night. So it's a six-game point streak for Jake Muzzin.

Yeah, and that's offense. Like, he's holding it down on the other end, too, and friggin' out a month. Right up until this injury, though, Toronto had, and I don't think Toronto fans feel this way, but if you actually look at the number of man games lost, a very manageable injury load. It's unfortunately for this team. First off, we're not used to major injuries to major players because the team's quite young. And we've been lucky that, you know, the most we lost Matthews ever for was like a month last year, which was big, but not that big. Well, and they did pretty well during it.

Right. So you almost don't remember it. And it wasn't through a crucial stretch either. No, it was the beginning of the season. And then, you know, Mitch Marner at the beginning of this season, Tavares for a bit at the beginning of this season. It's felt like star players or big players. And unfortunately with the Leafs, if Morgan Riley goes down, it's like Tavares and Marner going down.

Because there's less talent back there, it's far more amplified when Morgan Riley goes down and then when Jake Muzzin goes down. Tweet for you from MangameslostNHL. This was tweeted February 21st as well, so it's not even up to date. NHL top five teams impact of Mangameslost games lost by average time on ice law of skaters lost number one pittsburgh no shock number two columbus i mean uh eunice corposalo seth jones pretty bad detroit well they're not really trying to do anything are they number five chicago number four the leafs so if it feels like it like

yesterday i tweeted throw this season in the garbage and everyone's like what's the matter What's the matter is no one's in the lineup. Why did you tweet that? Yeah, why did you tweet that? That's not true. To throw the season in the garbage? Yeah. I tweeted it after they announced Muzzin was out for a month.

Okay, but still. No, I didn't mean stop trying for the Leafs. I meant I was angry at the way the season has gone. All right, calm down a little. Listen, listen. You may have gone a bit overboard on that one, I think. Never. Maybe.

Throw the season in the garbage. Throw it in the garbage. So, yeah. So, you know, okay. So it's been a little bit hectic on the injury front. There's still no excuse. You know, the teams you named there, Columbus is in the hunt. Pittsburgh's in it.

Detroit is definitely not in it. Who was the other team? Chicago. Chicago's definitely not in it. They were in it for a very long time. Oh, whatever. We knew Chicago was going to be in it. Come on.

Stan Bowman is literally losing his mind. I don't know what his deal is. But the fact is, we're not used to major injuries here in Toronto. in the last three and a half years. We just haven't had many. And it's amplified when it's two defensemen, and it's the two best defensemen, frankly. So what do your lineups for the Leafs defense look like?

Oh, that's fun. What are the pairings? I did this, and I was so close. My top pair is Dermott Hall. Okay. Which used to be a pair for the Leafs. I mean, granted, third pair during injuries, But now it's the top pair.

My second pair is Sandeen Berry. My third pair is Rosen Lilligren. And why that one? Why Rosen? Oh, because they played together in the AHL. Now, before they actually came out, I was like, Steve's dreaming. But anyway, we'll get into that in a second. Before they even came out.

So Marincin's being hopped by everybody? Marincin is actually in for Rosen. So Rosen is the seventh. I was bang on except Rosen for Marincin. And I thought, I was like, Steve. I saw that tweet. I was like, Steve, if you think Marincin, mid-January contract Marincin, extension man, extension Marincin. Penalty killer.

Is not coming back for a minimum 85% of the games without Muzzin, Barry, and Riley in the, sorry, Muzzin, CeCe, Riley in the lineup, you are dreaming. Now, I'm not saying that Steve's wrong. I think you're wrong. I think the Leafs are wrong about the faith they have in Martin Marincin. They need a penalty killer. I think you were wrong. No, do they need a penalty killer? Yeah.

Callie Rose has played, like, 11 NHL games, you know? He's not a proven commodity. It doesn't mean Marincin should have played more than 11 NHL games. Guys, I'm sorry. Oh, my God. Just because he has played doesn't mean he should play. And listen, I was a guy that was like, give him a chance, give him a chance, Give him a chance.

And every time they put him out there, I'm in the field position on my couch. Well, dude, two years ago, I was like, no, stop. Because he was great at the AHL level. And you're like, what is it, man? Why is it that when you get the puck, it's like, I sure hope he can throw that grenade far enough. I don't know. Like, he just, he doesn't even Roman Polak blast it around the boards. He just loses it.

It's gone. I think Marincin has earned the right to lose that job. I think you give it to him. And if he fails miserably, then you pull the plug. But he's earned the right to slip into this lineup now that everybody's injured and just give it the old college try. Jesse is literally, here's literally what Jesse's saying. Literally.

Marincin has earned the right to lose his job of ninth defenseman on the Leafs. Ninth. Literally ninth. Cassisi's out, Riley's out, Muzzin's out. Ninth. Marincin's played 222 games in the NHL. Yeah, he's been around. That's a lot.

Remember all his days at Edmonton? That's a thing. He didn't play much at Edmonton, did he? No, he played 80 games over two seasons. He played two half seasons. Yeah. That's not bad. And then 65 with the Leafs in 15-16.

Yeah, on the top pair. Yeah, yeah. That's when Connor Kerr was playing top four minutes, I think. Let him go out there and be Marincin. That's your... No. That pairing, that Lilligren-Marinchen pairing is getting like five minutes a night. You guys know that, right?

Sure. And I got to say, Lilligren impressed me last night. There was one play. I liked him. First period. I did. Did you see him blast in and get a shot on Vasilevsky? That's all confidence, right?

Yeah. It was like, oh, that's what I want to see. That was great. Yeah. That was great. And I think if they continue to warm him up and move him into the lineup, you know, keep it at six or seven minutes, eight minutes, nine minutes towards the playoffs. You can have him

playing 10 or 11 minutes. That is all you need. I think if Mnuchin had, like, one of those relaxation tees before each game, his performance would go up 50%. He's very, very good. His passes are crisp and on the tape, and they're great. Denying entries and everything. When he has the puck in his own end,

it's like he's standing on a paint shaker. Like, and he just throws it randomly everywhere. They could give him a ringette stick, a goalie stick a shovel, and it would be the same result. Have you seen toddlers learning to try to catch? No.

That's what Martin Marincin is with the puck in his own zone. What, it just hits? Like you have it? Oh, fella. Those must be adorable videos. Listen, it's adorable for the other team. I just, I just, I think Callie Rosen,

Callie Rosen's going to draw in, and Callie Rosen's going to do a better job. We don't know that. That's what I think. See, I don't remember if they had him kill on penalties. With who? The Marlies? They do need it. On the Marlies. Like in the minors. That's the only place he's played is in the minors. Exactly. At least one guy's been

on the first sparing. Let him lose the job. Or get it. One or the other. Give him a shot. Here, help me out here. So, who are the Leafs? The Leafs need four penalty-killing defensemen. Who are they? Dermott? They've had Sandin sparingly.

Barry? Nope. Well, you might as well have Sandin in there because he's anchoring the second power play, and that's never getting on the ice. Hall. Yeah. And Lilligren, I think, has gotten out there a couple times. That's your four? There's no good combination of four. Okay, but what I like about Rosen is he's a good skater.

He is a good skater. And why, isn't that the whole point of a penalty kill? From what I understand, and from my limited hockey knowledge, and again, I was told in my DMs, which I'm not sure why I have open anymore, to be honest with you. You should very stop that, like I've been saying for a long time. I had several people go,

Listen, I disagree with everything that you say, and today is no different. But clearly, you never played competitive hockey. F you. Shut up. F you with that argument. Hashtag played the game. The point is. That doesn't even matter.

You can have an opinion on hockey even if you've never played. Yeah, it's not F you. It's not really F you. It's F that argument. But in all honesty. I'll say F you. What I want to say is that, and I'm saying this jokingly, but what matters on a penalty kill is quickness. Paul Correa was never the fastest player in the NHL.

He was the quickest. It's acceleration. It's one, two, three. Your first three strides are what matter. And I can guarantee you, I can guarantee you that even though Martin Marincin's legs could probably reach over Callie Rosen's forehead, I can bet, I can bet that Callie Rosen could beat him to the blue line or beat him in the first three strides. I bet. So, but that's, so with Paul Correa, you're talking about a forward.

Like, do you not need one guy who's just like, get the fuck out of the crease? Is Marincin that guy? No. He's the Frederick Gauthier of defensemen. This is the big problem. He's huge. Listen, I've got this gigantic body. Am I going to use it?

Nope. Nope. This is the big problem, and can I say something that I never thought I'd say? This is where the least miss Cody Ceci. No. Is Cody Ceci big? Yeah, he's big-ish. He's not strong in his feet or anything, but he can sort of let you know he's around.

The best thing about Cody Ceci is that he's going to be healthy by the playoffs. And you know he's going right back into the lineup. If there's anything I want, it's a cold Cody Ceci. Exactly. Ice cold. No, but he's going to be ready by the second last week of the season. Him and Riley are both projected. And then now Muzzin's kind of last game-ish first round of the playoffs.

So here's a tough thing for the Muzzin comeback tour. And I've had my eye on this for literally months. The Leafs' second-last regular season game is their first game against the Red Wings since Muzzin knocked out Mantha. Someone is going to do something really, really stupid that night. I feel it in my bones. Dude, he punctured his lung. I don't know if Mantha's played since.

Someone's going to do something very stupid that night. Is Steve fear-mongering right now? Yeah, I think he is. What do the Red Wings have to play for? Steve is the Rush Limbaugh of the Red Wings Leafs game on Game 82. Listen, listen, all right. What is the water doing to the frogs? Listen, listen.

It's turning the frigging frogs into a tanking team that's going for Lafreniere. Who? Lafreniere. Also, I want to shout out. He's still a thing that exists. I want to shout out the entire play where the, and it starts with signing the contract with Zach Bogosian, and then Zach Bogosian taking the ice against, in Tampa Bay, and then firing a direct, a puck directly into Yanni Gord's penis.

That, that. No, it's Brayden Point. Oh, Brayden Point's penis. Brayden Point's penis. Who tweeted this? Who tweeted this today? It was so funny. Oh my God.

Are we literally both, are we both looking up the same tweet? Yes, we are. And it's, it's like, do you remember? Do you remember when Bogosian? No, that's not what I was talking about. Oh, my God. Suicide Pass. No, what did he say?

Suicide Pass tweeted, fun fact, Bogo, the Bogo nickname stands for burst or gonads open. What? Which made me actually gag on the train down here. Juno the Leafs. Remember when the Bulls acquired Zach Bogosian and he immediately fired a puck into Braden Point's penis? I remember. He hit Braden in his point. There we go.

There it is. By the way, you know what's hilarious, and we'll get to trade deadline stuff, but all the Zach Bogosian stuff out of Buffalo, because everybody, including our favorite Mike Harrington, were like, did they not turn on Game Center to watch a Buffalo game? No. But they were basically saying, you know, Tampa, good depth pickup. And he's like, I don't know what they're talking about.

He's not a good depth pickup. And I'm like, this is Harrington. Yeah. And, you know. He's free. That was my argument the whole time. He's free. And also, yeah, he's a body.

And I also... Like, literally just see if it works and scratch him if it doesn't. It doesn't matter. The Leafs are on defenseman number nine. Like, you can't have too many bodies. Right. And we're not even in the first round. They could probably use aggravation right now.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. I think they withdrew their offer to him after the Carolina game, though. That was what I heard. They switched... They switched years after that and they said, no, we're not doing that. We're not doing anything for anybody.

Screw you guys. Figure it out. You lost to a Zamboni driver. Yeah, yeah. Now, let me think. I want to go positive with the Leafs for a moment here, for a second. Why? No, I'm kidding.

Go. The Leafs' likelihood to make the playoffs right now is 75%. And that's because, mostly, they only have to fight off the Panthers. Now, assuming they can do that, they have a good shot at making the playoffs. That's pretty good. 75%. Not bad. Those models piss me off, though, because the Leafs lose to Florida tomorrow.

That's 62%. It's 42%. They lose 10 games. Oh, it's 50%. No, it doesn't fix that. It'd be like down to two. But, you know, you look at the spread. Yeah, those models are annoying because it's sort of like the percentages change so rapidly.

Moneypuck had 67%, I think. And this was before Florida won. And Muzzin was announced being out for a month. Right. So I got to imagine that model is less. And the percentages only stick during the, like, 16 hours of the day when there's no games. Right. Because as soon as, like, more games happen, then all the percentages move.

Yeah, there's got to be a better way to calculate this. Team goes up 1-0. Listen, listen, I'm just throwing this at you. 75% is what I read. And let's say, so the Leafs make the playoffs. And let's say Martin Marincin draws out, Callie Rosen draws in, steps in, plays solid bottom-pairing minutes.

Guys, does it then not mean that Michael Hutchinson saved the Leafs season with his play earlier this season? Adam, I saw that white-hot volcanic take today. And I have to say, bravo. Thank you. You're absolutely right. Thank you. You're absolutely damn right.

By Michael Hutchinson being bad, the Leafs ended up with a better Jack Campbell, frankly. Oh, yeah. And they got Callie Rosen back, who could potentially save their season by just being a guy who played more than 11 games in the NHL. By existing. By existing. Being there. speaking of jack campbell we went from talking about him being the starter to forgetting he exists very quickly well because freddie started right well also david airs sort of took the airs

out of that uh but i i think i think uh when we do see jack campbell again he'll come in and do great but what i do like about jack campbell is the not only is he the warm blanket when he's in the net he's the warm blanket when he's not isn't he that guy pats everybody on the butt oh he is a And I mean that in the best way. I don't mean it in the Pierre Maguire. That was super weird when we saw that in the playoffs way. I meant that in the he's one of the best team cheerleaders out there. And what did you say back in the day, Steve?

This is pre-Jesse Blake on this podcast. Wow. We're going way back. PJB. PJB. PJB. PJ Bizzle. Peanut jam butter.

This would have happened probably in the first 10 episodes of this show ever. Wow. Steve said something about a goaltending tandem that the Leafs did have at that point. The goaltending tandem at that point was Ben Scrivens and James Reimer. Hell yeah. And what did you say that Ben Scrivens did for James Reimer? He put him in his happy place. Didn't I say that?

You did. How do you guys remember this? They promptly traded. I remember it was one of the first takes that sort of like hit me. I was like, whoa. Like it stuck with me. It must have. The Bernier-Reimer was awkward from the first day.

What happened was the Leafs had a clear starter in James Reimer who dragged them to the playoffs. He had a bad third period in which the Leafs were awful defensively against Boston. And all of a sudden, it was his fault. And, like, Glenn Healy back then between the benches and, like, and then, you know, Dave Nones, who was horrendous at evaluating goaltending talent anyway. And then he traded. So they traded Matt Frat Sanity Fratton and Ben Scrivens to L.A. with, I think, a first-round pick for—was it a first or second?

No, it was Bernier—sorry, no, it was Scrivens, Frat Sanity, and a second. That's right, for Bernier. And Bernier was unproven at this point, so this is the second time we've traded for an L.A. backup. He was a backup who was going to be better than Patrick Waugh. And he was small and quick, but small. And that's part of the problem in the NHL is you've got to sort of be big. But he wasn't quick. That's why he got traded.

They wanted him to be. And then they immediately, Jesse, signed him to a $4.5 million contract over two years. Immediately. And so what happened was it was like, oh, they're going to have some competition. It's pretty good to have healthy competition. And what happened? They had worse goaltending the year before, and they couldn't find a starter. Both of the guys were not good enough to be the starter.

But they had a guy. Reimer fell off hard and battled injuries. Right. He was susceptible to traumatic blows to the head. That's right. That's right. He was injured very quickly. That's my favorite line in hockey ever from Dean McCammond.

Do you think you're prone to concussions? No, I think I'm prone to traumatic blows to the head. So what's happened or what happened was that there was an equilibrium that was thrown off, something that worked the previous season with James Reimer when he stood on his head. You can go back and look at all the numbers. The numbers show you exactly what happened. It was James Reimer and his merry men. and you're talking about

that was the shortened season the top pair was Mike Koska and Dion Phaneuf now when you look at the way the Leafs are now Freddie Anderson needs to be Freddie Anderson from last night every game, in fact he probably needs to be better than he was last night

Freddie Anderson from last year but if there's a guy that's going to put him in that position not challenge for the starting job but encourage him and everybody else to be in a good mood and be better is Jack Campbell. And I like that. That's what you need in your backup goalie.

So I'm so glad that he's there. And you do see it on the bench, you know, every once in a while a forward will get off and he'll be sitting next to Jack Campbell and you get a pat on the back or something like that. You'll just see the gloves swing. It's like, good. Thank you.

That's great. We like that. And I hope we get more of that. And I think we need that. Now... They need to be... We've said, like... It's a great point.

Do they look like they like playing with each other? Do they look like they enjoy hockey right now? Any kind of positive influence whatsoever. We especially talked about that with the Ford group. People had a serious issue, just so you guys know, serious issue with my take that the Leafs might not like each other. Well, you brought it up. No, that was me.

But I said that I backed you up, and I said the Beatles hated each other, especially towards the end. Oh, I saw that one guy. No, you should have seen my DMs. And it's funny. If you look back at, like, Kobe and Shaq hated each other. Like, publicly. Yeah.

There are people, guys. I don't know if you know this, And I know that this sort of breaks the fantasy, but if you think that 20 guys flying on an airplane all the time are going to get along all the time and that there aren't certain subsections like there were in your high school class, you're crazy. You're out of your mind. You're asking too much. And so people, merely the suggestion, when I backed you on that, that the Leafs might

not like each other necessarily all the time, they might hate each other. Some people on that team might hate each other. That's possible. Yes. And you may never find out about it. Why is that a shock to people? Because I think... That somebody you work with you might not like.

Because in your fantasy world, and I get it. Sports are fantasy. That's all this is. This is entertainment, man. This is supposed to be fun. It's not always fun, but it's supposed to be. Super happy funsies. You want everybody to get along because in your fantasy, the narrative you have in your head,

Hey, I'm in the NHL and I'm making lots of money and we can get along. Everybody thinks like I do. Well, no, they don't. They have different backgrounds. They think different things. They like different music They have different opinions and they have different levels of preparation for games and different executions I don't know if you've been to If you've been in an office setting when somebody's not pulling their weight and everybody else is

Boy that makes them a popular person look at me for no no not you. Would you look at me? No, you're doing great You're doing great. You're doing so much better than you used to Wow! That was passive aggressive. That was good. No, but that's not true. Steve's never not brought it.

But the point I'm trying to make here is, guys, it's not impossible that these guys don't necessarily always like each other. And in fact, it is very possible that there is some capital H hate. That's possible. That's possible on the best teams. People are like, oh, yeah, well, Joel Quinville and Stan Bowman didn't like each other. Sure worked out well. And you assume that the players wouldn't be like that, too?

Or even something, like I've done this before, where someone wants to talk to me, but I'm mad at them. But I know I'm going to forgive them. I'm just like, not right now. Yeah, that's possible. Come back to me in three days. In three days, I act like nothing ever happened. But it's just not right now. I don't want to hear you.

But do you really get to do that on a hockey team? No, you don't. Don't get away. On the bus, at the rink, in the locker room. Get out of my face! There are even simple things like language barriers that are just going to create cliques. Sure. You know, the guys from similar countries and speak the same language are going to hang out together.

I think the Swedish guys are going to hang out. Right. It's weird, right? It's weird, but people just don't make that simple connection. Like, hey, maybe this is just like everyday life where not everybody gets along. By the way, that's okay. Right. That is okay.

It's normal. It's normal. And so I just want to throw that out there for everybody who had an issue with my take on that. And there were many of you. You're wrong. I will say this. I will say this. And first of all, Adam is right.

Adam is often right. There's so many times where someone will be like, I disagree with Adam. And I'm like, I said that. Yeah, people do often get your takes confused. Yes. We look so similar. No, you disagree with me. Screw you.

And by the way, I was right too. Yeah, I was right. By the way, none of this, by the way, do we ever take personally. So please feel free to mess with me. I do. We just prefaced this by saying sports is fantasy and it's entertainment and it's fun. This is all supposed to be fun. Listen, I'm just throwing it out there.

Come on. I will say this. At the beginning of the season, it did not look like Mitch was having a fun time. No, no, it did not. He was having a horrible, horrible time. He makes too much money. Maybe. In fact, if you were to write down a list of the things that he did not like at the beginning of the season

and show it to other players. No, I'm sorry. Anyway. That took me a second. I was wondering what you guys would catch on. But he was having a bad time, and he got hurt. Yeah. And that sucks.

And he gets brought in as team puppy when Babcock gets fired. Literally got brought in as team puppy. He was the team therapist, that poor guy. Yeah. And that whole thing breaks, and then he comes back to the lineup, and slowly but surely, holy shit, look at Mitch go. He's had some rough patches. It just seems like he's lost that again.

He looks miserable again. Didn't look too bad last night, though. Looked like he got it back a little bit. There were some defensive lapses I noticed, especially on the penalty, on the power play. When the one power play where Tampa had the two shorthanded breaks. Do you remember that? And Mitch was the other forward back, and he made a just terrible play on the puck. Like, he just went for it, and they passed it around him.

Sometimes it's between the ears, right? It's such a chaotic game that you can see that. And listen, I'm the one being kindest to Mitch, and I was the hardest on him last episode. I was genuinely impressed. Based on how bad the Saturday game was, the step up was phenomenal. Here's the reality of the world. He's making people who are going to be hard on you money. Yes.

You wanted it, you got it. Like, this is it. You're right. And the way the team is constructed, if you're going to move out any big contracts, he's the most logical one to move. Yeah. It makes the most sense to move your $10 million winger as opposed to your star centers. Pills that are hard to swallow, Meme. Like, that's just logic.

And also, it is easier to get those assists back than it would be to get William Nylander's goals back. Goals pay more. I will say, listen, none of us are enthused about trading Mitch Martin. No! None of us. I, what I want is for him. I want them to win! I want him to read.

Please win! Win? Every year. But you know what will help them win is him refinding his happy place. Yeah. Because, I don't know, maybe it's. maybe i'm reading too much i bet i guarantee you i guarantee you we get at least one story next next training camp um where mitch marter talks about man that contract really messed with my

head and you almost always see it when they get a second big contract a hundred percent you're gonna you're gonna see somebody say listen mitch marter had a really tough time because he came back after a pretty contentious negotiation and it messed with his head and and and it did with William Nylander clearly plus he held out and I think you saw it with Johnny Goudreau a couple years ago too and Sean Monaghan remember they both signed big contracts and then came out

in the first couple months that happens and that part of it is a psychological part of the game and something Jesse just said I don't know if Goudreau struggled more than Monaghan I do know he was making more which means

he's struggling more If they can have the exact same amount of points in the exact same amount of games, Goudreau's struggling more. Percentage of money to performance. That's how it works. That's how it works. Who makes more? Okay, you score more.

Who makes more? You're supposed to play better. That's how it works. If you want people to stop talking about the money that these guys make and putting pressure on them, if that's what you want, you're worried about their psyche about that, that's great. Get rid of the salary cap. The whole damn season has revolved around their salary cap situation. Right.

Get rid of the salary gap. We can't ignore it. If you don't want to focus on that, then get rid of it. That's the main narrative of the Leafs in 2020. It's the main narrative of the league. It's teams that can afford to reach the bottom, and it's teams that are just trying, fighting within $20,000 of hitting the top. If Florida's going to cut, what is it, $10 million in salary by next season as their goal?

Is that ownership given a big old middle finger to Dale Tallon, by the way? Because why are they cutting exactly what Sergey Bobrovsky makes? Right. Like, that's tough. That is tough. Dale Talon makes odd moves. One day we're going to do a deep dive on Dale Talon's career. Oh, yeah.

Because it's odd. Imagine if I did a trade tree on just everything he ever did. It would look like a brain in a galaxy. You can do a book on that. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. Dale Talon, what you thinking? By Steve Daniel.

Jesse, what were you going to say? No, that was the... Oh, that was it? Okay, I thought you were going to say something there. Would you switch up the top six? With the Leafs? Yeah. Well, as it's currently constructed, how?

Let's go through that. Yeah, so Hyman, sorry, Hyman, Matthews, Marner, Nylander on the left, I think, Tavares, Malgan, which it's weird to me that he doesn't look bad, but like the Malgan was just sort of hot potato. I think he's a seed filler on that one. I think he's a seed filler. And I think they're trying Willie on the left side

because they have the ability to do that. He wanted to try that. It makes more sense passing-wise. just because he's open to the ice when he's on that left side. And also, well, and I don't know when this is going to happen or how realistic it is because I keep thinking the Leafs have this weird, you know, we keep, oh, man, when CeCe comes back, when Riley comes back, when Muzzin gets back,

Mikheyev is a really big factor on this team. He was playing so, so well, and he's a left-handed guy who I think was playing on the right. And all of a sudden, well, Willie's right wing, Mitch's right wing, Cappy's right wing. You're going to put Mikheyev on the fourth line? That seems like a waste. Willie moves over to the left and does well.

All of a sudden, Mikheyev slots in there? I think that's what they're doing. I think they're warming up. I mean, he's been on the ice. It looks real nice. He's on the ice every day doing shoot-arounds. Yeah, and I don't know. It's going to be tough because you're ready when you're ready.

But, like, he didn't shoot a ton to begin with. So, I don't know. Don't force him back. No, I'm not going to force him back. But with a fully healthy lineup, I think this situation helps. I don't think Mikheyev's shot is anything more than a bit of a muffin anyway. I think it's Mikheyev's shot. Can he shoot the puck and handle the puck?

That's great. More importantly, can his forearm withstand slashes to the forearm? That's really what needs to be healthy, right? Is his forearm strong enough to poke the puck loose? Yes. He's a long body and a really good skater. Yep. Yes.

And one of the things that the Leafs immediately lost when they lost him was a really good defensively responsible forward who always, always got back to the point. Always got back to the point. It was awesome. And it allowed, I wonder what the defensive points are like since his injury. That's a good question. I wonder if it's gone down. Because it always felt like the defense were involved in the play when Mikheyev was on the ice. Anyway, I'm saying all that because I just feel like...

I think they're doing this Nylander thing because they're waiting for Mikheyev to come back. Boy, that's a month and a half. Like, I just want Mitch to get going. And, like, I don't mean an assist. Listen, Mitch in a slump is still going to do better than... 99%. On a down season, it looks like first career is going to throw up 70 assists. Yeah.

In his sleep. So many people are going to hear what we're saying and be like, but he, he's being paid but he money. Like, it doesn't matter. Mitch Marner's getting paid 100 point a season money, though. If he gets 85, it's a letdown. It's unrealistic, but I want to see, I want to see a crazy breakout performance like the Carolina game.

Dominate. Yes. Dominate and look like a child on Christmas morning. I miss Mitch's smile, man. Yeah. I miss him. Well. You know what I mean?

You took it away last episode. Did you know that? I know. You are responsible for Mitch Marner feeling bad about himself, and I just hope you can live with yourself. I don't know. Maybe. No, not maybe.

Definitely. Definitely. Again, according to my DMs. Definitely. Are you going to post those? I think I might. Sounds like you really like him. No, you know what?

Honestly, it sounds like a bad time. No, it sounds... No, no. You know what? Maybe I won't. Here's the reason I'm thinking I might keep him open. The reason is, it's good to hear opinions that are far and away different from yours. Sure.

And I think it's good to be challenged. You don't need open DMs for those. Well, yeah, that's true. How about unsolicited take? How about unsolicited this and that? The occasional unsolicited personal attack stuff, too, is like, whatever, I can roll that off my back. I don't care.

I think the thing is that there were a lot of people last episode, unquestionably, who, especially with Mitch Marner, because he is so beloved, who hurt for Mitch Marner. And I respect that. Totally. I get that.

I get it. That's called being a fan. You think I don't get hurting for a player? No. None of the criticism leveled at Mitch Marner, I don't believe, was unfair. I don't believe what we said was unfair about any of those guys. Have the stakes ever been higher? They haven't.

No, that's the thing, right? But they're making high stakes money, baby. You're at the game. You're at the poker table. We have Stanley Cup expectations from now until this window closes. It's not like he's the only one. Right now, it's wide open. No, exactly.

It's not like he's the only one. Austin's not really getting it, but I think people would feel stupid on account of his You score 60 goals in a season. How are you supposed to criticize that? What else is he supposed to do? Tavares is getting it. Well, and that brings me to my next thing. So I got a message from, you bring up Tavares.

Now I have, there are some questionable takes on sports radio in this town. There's no question. And the fact that this was even a conversation for me is sort of odd. But I understand why, from an entertainment perspective, you would have it. Okay? Oh. So this is from Crossich on Instagram, and he sent me a message. He said, hey, Adam, Brian Hayes and Craig Button on Overdrive are questioning if Tavares was the right choice to be Leafs captain as opposed to Morgan Rielly.

I'm curious to know what you guys felt about it when it happened and if your opinion has changed since. Rielly's not in the lineup. If it wasn't for Babcock, would John Tavares be captain? Bingo. You nailed it. Rielly's not in the lineup, so Rielly can't look bad. But I don't know if you remember this. Morgan Rielly did not look good

and then he got even more injured well yeah, and Babcock was playing him half an hour a game I think Keefe did it too but that's a silly question to ask like if Tavares being named captain was a Babcock thing but you can understand on a radio show why you would ask it

because you're going to engage people everybody's going to have an opinion, that's why you bring it up because it's polarizing, yes or no and I feel this way because of this facts tend to kill compelling radio because I would immediately, I'd be a terrible co-host for that show because I'd be like, Morgan Rielly is literally the only player Mike Babcock thanked on his way out.

Bingo. Literally the only one. But to answer his question. He thanked the guy who wasn't even there anymore. He thanked Lou and he didn't thank Kyle. To answer the question, which I said we would. Because he fired him. I think it's a fair question and I like getting questions like this.

How did you feel, all of you, both of you and then me, How did you feel when John Tavares was named captain? Go, Jesse. It was the right decision, especially at the time, because we were thinking it was Matthews or Tavares, and then Matthews came out and said, I did these illegal things, and I didn't tell my GM or coach or anybody. I tried to cover it up, and we're like, all right, so it's Tavares.

By the way, Chris Johnson was bound and determined that it was going to be Austin Matthews. He knew something. Yeah. And I think last minute it wasn't. But you're right. Sorry, Jesse. And then Tavares comes out, and we see this video of him

being the most stoic man in the world after being named captain. And you're like, that's the captain. That's the leader of the team. He's the most veteran guy there. You know, just bring him in. He's hometown boy. He should be captain. You need to know what to expect of your captain.

Yes. So do you think Tavares was the right choice or Morgan Riley, which apparently was not? I don't think that was even. I think either would have been fine. Either would have been perfectly fine. How did you feel about Tavares getting it, though? That's the question. You liked it.

OK. I liked it, but it was conflicting emotions because all summer I was like, it's going to be Matthews. It's going to be Matthews. And then the story breaks out of frigging nowhere and through everything out of sorts. I hate to read too much into it, but Morgan Rielly had a bit of a funny expression sort of the opening when they were announcing everyone for the home opener. That seemed a little strange. I don't know.

I'm probably just reading into that too much. It's not like Morgan's going to be like, hey, and mug for the camera or anything. Do a dance. TikTok faces? No, he's not going to do that. But, you know, I've been told so many times by, like, former players who have won, you need more than one leader. And the Leafs do. But, again, back to the question.

Sure. You liked it when Tavares got it. Yes. I liked it, too. Has your opinion changed, Jesse? None at all. Have you ever looked at John Tavares, Steve, and said, he shouldn't have that? Completely no.

If anything, the season has affirmed my opinion that he should be captain. Right. Right. And this is the thing. When people, when teams start to lose, especially in sports intense market, I mean, like anybody from New York knows what I'm talking about. If the Yankees went on a 10 game losing streak, which they have never really done, never 10 games in a row. If the Yankees went on, had a bad streak, if the Yankees lose a game, you should hear the things they say about the Yankees on New York sports radio. You should see the things that are written. It's far worse than it is here. And in a good season, that's still like 60 times. Yes, 100%. So this is the thing. Tavares, you would have to do something legitimately wrong to undeserve the captaincy.

And you would have to do, I mean, what did John Tavares do last year that you could point to that says, well, he doesn't deserve it? Other than the fact that he hasn't been here that long. Fell three goals shy of 50. Right. That's a huge problem. What a bum. This is the thing. When teams start to lose, and they start to lose spectacularly, the way the Leafs did on Saturday, weird conversations like this start to happen. And it's your job not to react to them.

You are one of the hardcore sports fans. You're listening to this show? You're listening to a show that is, by rights, a show for hardcore hockey fans. You know, you have to seek this show out. Radio shows are just there. They're on. You turn on your radio. It comes with your car.

Yeah, you put it on your iHeartRadio app or your Apple CarPlay or whatever, and it's on. By the way, we are on iHeartRadio for everybody that has it. Damn right. But it's there, and I know this because I'm in radio. When you are on a podcast, you're seeking this out. You are actively listening. You're actively downloading this. And if you don't like it, it's a little bit your fault.

So it's... It's a little bit your fault. You came here. We were just talking. The point I'm trying to make here is I'm telling you this because I know you're one of the hardcore people who's passionate enough to go, can you believe, and tweeting it out. And I understand it because I've done it too. Can you believe these idiots, these morons, these highly paid professionals on the radio, by the way, could say something like this? Well, yes, I can.

Yes. Well, I can believe anybody said anything. Oh, Leaf fans. One of the things that annoys me, oh, Leaf fans are saying this. Leaf fans are saying, there are millions of Leaf fans. Yeah. You can't paint with one brush. Think of how many people you know.

How many of them are stupid? Now put that on the scale of millions of people. I don't care who you are. You don't know millions of people. You know... 20 people. You know... 20, 30 people.

You have, like, over the course of your life, 750 people who you have known their first name at one point and maybe forgotten. Yeah, because you went to high school. Yeah, because you went to high school. oh within 10 years of that shit that's gone yeah that is gone I can't tell you how fast I've lost that I'm brutal so you put that on the scale can you believe someone said Ilya Mikheyev should be the backup goalie yes you believe that someone said what if uh Marincin played wing yes can you believe name any stupid thing can you believe it yes there's so many people right well that's

there's so many people and every time a sports radio show and you you see this tweeted all the time every time a sports radio show tweets something they or or people tweet something about it like i can't believe so and so said this guess what that's that show just won yes that show just got free exposure from you so they're doing it right that's how you do it now that doesn't mean every take is stupid that doesn't mean every take has to be that mean doesn't mean every conversation but i can guarantee you in sports radio shows there are guys who those guys know these people they're not stupid people it's and i'm sure sometimes the conversations drive them nuts but they gotta have them and it's okay to have them and everybody relax but the john devar

stuff to put it to bed there is nothing wrong with the captaincy situation here what's wrong is you've got a very immature team and you've got four guys making a lot of money three of them under the age of 25 and i'll tell you something if you haven't hit 25 26 yet just so you know a reckoning cometh things change and they change rapidly after you hit 25 26 it's you don't even see it happening and all of a sudden you go from we're partying oh it's a long weekend that means we can drink friday saturday and sunday night to i haven't been out literally in months and that happens within like a year i used to punish myself dude looking back steve used to do highlights from cbc and drive six of us home dangled drunk that's that's where no sorry you guys were drunk yeah no

not you yeah not you well yeah i was working till 2 30 but uh yeah like and it's one of those things i'm gonna sound so old saying this you're living in it and you don't realize it you're like yeah no this is fine like yeah this is like and now i'm i look back on like four years ago and i go what the fuck yeah oh my god i get a hangover now it lasts for a couple days guys like i'm not even talking about that stuff yeah like yeah anyway the point is the point is there was maturity that you can't they're so mundane that they'd be pointless to bring up the maturity thing on this Leafs team is going to be an issue that's going to continue to be an issue now you might say well you should let them off the hook for that no they have to learn them faster why because

they're the leaders on this team they're making the most money and they're in Toronto you sign the contract here you played here you want to be here you want to make that kind of money here you are going to be held accountable before the average person would be held accountable raspid you said it today steve raspid sandon he is he is anchoring this the leaf second power play when a lot of people are doing their second round of grade 12 yep that is mature beyond your years and what we are asking the big four specifically three of them is to be mature beyond their years and most of the time they're okay but honestly the willpower this year up to this point the the flipping and flopping and the up and down has not been good enough be even sure beyond your years we're

asking much of you because much is given jason spezza is playing like the oldest most experienced guy he's the best i just love watching him play so close to getting a spezza jersey oh i think i might have to i love him just for fun can i give you another can you believe oh please this person said this let me hear it title of this article no maybe the Leafs would have been better off with Babcock and Lou after all yeah I can believe it I can believe it now no let's play a game uh uh is it TSN Sportsnet or newspaper newspaper this is It's Damien Cox. I'm going to say.

Damien Cox. Is it? Yeah, it's Damien Cox. Oh, do you know this for a fact? It's Fabian Cox, yeah. Yeah. No, I didn't know that for a fact. I just.

If it's not Steve Simmons, it's Damien Cox. I was going to guess Toronto Star, because Toronto Star would at least ask the question. Yeah. Toronto Star would be like, Leafs would be better off. Right. Kyle Dubious. With whoever the two older people are. At least the star got to put the question mark on it.

And then says the ridiculous thing. You noticed that? Has Kyle Dumas voted for Justin Trudeau? He has not denied it. Joe Orrington. Joe Orrington. My column of them. My column.

Bobby Depp, Gino. Love it. Yo, so Joe Thornton to Toronto. What do we think about that? Elliot Friedman said this. These are the quotes from... By the way, I was shocked. And we're getting into the trade deadline stuff now.

I was shocked that Joe Thornton wasn't moved for a bag of pucks. Doug Wilson. Doug Wilson. Like, I guess the whole thing was, please, he said to Doug Wilson, please move me to a team with a legitimate shot at the Stanley Cup. No, no, he said, I've been playing in the league for 800 years, and I just want a shot at the Cup. He's slowly becoming Gandalf.

And then after the interview, he threw it into the bottom of the ocean, and that was the end of the stupid movie. Sorry. Yes, Adam? What? I don't know what that is. I thought you were doing Lord of the Rings. No, that's the same thing.

No, not the bottom of the ocean. It was a volcano. He threw the ring into the fire. Yeah. I thought you were doing ocean. I thought you were doing ocean because he plays with the sharks. No. I thought you were being creative.

By the way, can we just talk about the end of Titanic and how selfish that lady is who threw the ring in the bottom of the ocean? You could have sold that and given it all to charity. That was in a movie. Or to your kids. Or anyone. Her daughter's right there. And they're clearly not rich.

I'm surprised Celine Dion didn't cut herself off mid-song ago. No, no, no! I wouldn't have had to go to Vegas if you just sold the thing! Anyway, Titanic. True story. Happened to a friend of a friend of mine. There was a boat and everything. Yeah, it was crazy.

Now, so these quotes suck, and this is, by the way, from 31 Thoughts, which was a banger today. Here are the quotes. It would have been nice to at least have a chance, Joe Thornton said in Philadelphia. I wanted a shot, you know? Believe it or not, I've been hunting this thing down for 22 years, so I wanted another shot at it. Back to the grind, and that's how it is. Joe Thornton was drafted in 1997.

Sharks GM Doug Wilson made it clear that interested parties had to be legit Stanley Cup containers to make a pitch. I heard Boston never went far down the road, and Dallas' interest wasn't huge. Thornton's hilarious personality obscures his burning pride, desire. But don't worry, it's there. Now, let me throw this at you. If you're Joe Thornton, shouldn't you just be like,

Just get me into the playoffs. Like, do what Wayne Simmons did. Just get me in. Buffalo will take you. Close enough. Yeah, I'll go. I mean, people were laughing at that. Buffalo is not far out.

And it's not like third spot in the Atlantic is ironclad. Let's not talk about Buffalo yet. Yeah, no, I know. I was just throwing it out there. Because I have some things. I got to give it to Joe Thornton a little bit. because I was very caught off guard by these comments that, oh, I'm disappointed and everything,

because I swear a couple days before, wasn't he going like, oh, yeah, you know, maybe I'll think about a trade. Wasn't that what he was saying? Oh, yeah, maybe. Yeah, I think that's what he was saying to the media. Right. You're also caught off guard because you never hear a hockey player

speak up this honestly about wanting to win. Well, and that's what you do when you've been in the league for 46 years or whatever it is. If you're Joe Thornton, and I don't know who it was. There was a breakdown somewhere. Doug Wilson, Joe Thornton, not sure which it was. If Joe Thornton's directive to him was, trade me to one of the four teams with a legitimate shot at winning the Stanley Cup, then Joe Thornton screwed that up. Get to the playoffs.

You don't know who's going to win the Cup. Look at the 2011 Kings, who got squeaked in and won. You just don't know. 2012. well um uh if it's doug wilson waiting make me a pitch i'm sorry what make you a pitch doug wilson are you out of your mind make you a pitch these teams don't have time to make you a pitch it's can i get an asset back for joe thornton we're trying to do him a solid do the sharks know how to be sellers no i don't think so i don't know but what's i'm just gonna look up joe thornton

stats this year okay not that i have no idea by the way not that you're expecting big numbers at this point but the guy has four goals in 63 games right and what do you have last year 16 did he what do you have the year before 13 really i thought he was single digits and seven the year before oh there it is he's not a big goal scorer never has been no but where's his where's his assist 23 assists this year uh so tell me why if you're dallas or boston or vegas or anybody or anybody why are you listen i will listen to a conversation if i'm any of those jams about joe thornton fine but why am i making you a pitch i'm sorry i'm tampa bay i have to go get blake coleman i'm sorry i'm boston i have to make the danton heinen nick ritchie trade oh i'm sorry in

vegas i gotta trade for robin lennar i gotta go the former vesna trophy winner i don't have time for joe thornton who's probably gonna sometimes get into my life he's a fourth liner on any top to your NHL team? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe that. Maybe. He doesn't have the wheels.

Look at the Leafs right now. Who do you kick out of the lineup? No one. Goat? Not a single player. Goat. Goat. Goat.

Goat. You sure? I would try him over Goat. I'd try him, but he wouldn't have like a spot, like a concrete spot. You can have Joe, or you can re-sign Jason Spezza. Oh, you're going to have to re-sign Jason Spezza. Okay, this one's out of date. You can have Joe or Timoshev.

I think he'd take Timoshev because of the youth factor now I like Joe's personality though I like the influence on the room that's the tiebreaker, like Timoshev is not so special that he'd pass up that opportunity you can get Timoshev back if you really wanted him that badly

if you're a place like Buffalo maybe you bring him in just to sell some jerseys reignite the fanbase that's very upset we gotta talk about Buffalo later because there's a whole thing with this that's really strange. Not even just that. It all goes

back to Jack Eichel with Buffalo, but I'm going to get to that in a second. I just want to say, I'm not trying to besmirch Joe Thornton, and I would have loved to see him be a lead. But, the whole idea that some Stanley Cup contending team has to make the

Sharks a pitch, that to me is a definite goof up. And frankly, if the Sharks are at a stage where they're like, well, we're not going to make the playoffs which they should be. I don't think they're going to make the playoffs. No, not even close.

So why wouldn't you try to get at least something? And before the deadline. If the Leafs were able to turn Michael Hutchinson into anything, 887 to save percentage Michael Hutchinson, you have no excuse not to get something back for Joe Thornton. I'm sorry. What's the return? Like a fifth?

A sixth? Conditional seventh on his. Dude, if you're the Sharks, just to do him a solid, literally do a conditional seventh based on him re-signing, which he's probably not going to, which means it's free. Or like playing one playoff game. There's no reason for him to be there. And Doug Wilson, who, I'm just going to say this,

the reason Doug Wilson has been there so long is because of guys like Joe Thornton and Patrick Marleau and Brent Burns. Like, the reason that you are there, Doug, is because those guys performed for you well into their late 30s. Otherwise, you'd be gone. That's just the game, man. If they had fallen off early and those guys had those contracts, Doug Wilson would be gone. Dude, goaltending, for sure.

Injuries, for sure, in San Jose. But they didn't have goaltending last year. And before the injury, like, we talk about teams being in their happy place. Sharks ain't there. They are not having a good time. They are not in their happy place. What would be interesting to me, I want to see, I would be very interested to see Joe Thornton with another team. I don't know about Toronto, maybe.

Here's what Elliot Friedman said. Because I could definitely see him having a much better season next year, despite being as old as he is. I agree with that, too. I agree with that, too. And there's lots of reasons I agree with that. I think on a better team, he does better, frankly. He's used to playing with high performance. And I bet, as you said, I think the Sharks are just not in a happy zone this year.

Now, and sorry, one one last thing. We had the Jason Spezza. Should he play every day conversation? He definitely should be. Joe Thornton should not. Right. OK. Joe Thornton should not. So no matter where he goes, according to Elliott Friedman, if Thornton is not sold on the Sharks and they have been his comfort zone in the past, of course, of course, and they've been amazing. He's willing to seek, so if he's not sold on the Sharks and he's willing to seek out a new life, Friedman's prediction is Toronto will be a factor. He said, I can't confirm this, but I believe the Toronto Maple Leafs considered adding him now. Two things stopped it. Their decision to not make short-term fixes after the Carolina loss, rightfully so. One game screwed it up for Joe. And are they really a legit contender if they have to go through Boston or Tampa Bay or both?

That's a good question. Joe losing to the Bruins would be tough. When GM Kyle Dubas said he wanted to see how this group would respond to its tough stretch, he meant it. Thornton would have erased the tension right now, but the organization wants to see everybody from top to bottom and how they react. Next season's a different story. Thornton made it clear he will make his salary fit. He's a left-hand shot who could feed Austin Matthews, John Tavares from the strong side. They have plenty of time with Zach Hyman and William Nylander on their weak sides, although they've both had strong seasons.

There was a Greyhound connection there, too. People forget that. Thornton's been through the ringer. The playoff series I covered for Hockey Night in Canada was Boston and Montreal in 2004, where the Canadians came back from 3-1 to win. Thornton came under huge criticism with articles demanding he be stripped of his captaincy.

He survived, and he will walk into the Hall of Fame. Good message for Toronto's young core. Anyway, something to chew on. Now, I would love—I think Spets is back next year. I think that's a lock. It has to be. If you're Kyle Dubas, you must have Jason Spezza back. If you can get your hands on Joe Thornton,

despite all the things that we just said about his play, you do it. You do it as soon as you can. And you do it, if he says he's going to make his salary fit, you do it for the $700,000 that you're paying Jason Spezza. If you can have those guys in the room, that stuff matters. And people are like, well, it didn't work with Patty Marlowe. Well, it did, actually.

except that Patrick Marleau was making seven times what Jason Spezza makes. That's the problem. Patrick Marleau was making more than Austin Matthews at the time. I would have gladly had him back this year if he made Spezza's money. Yeah. Well, what he was making with the Sharks. Imagine the Leafs are in a position. Imagine the Leafs trade positions with Tampa.

So Tampa's wonky streak continued throughout the year, and the Leafs came on strong, and they're right there with Boston. Are you telling me the Leafs aren't in on Patrick Marleau at the trade deadline? I think they would have been. I thought the Penguins gave up a ton. They did give up a lot for them. It could be a second if they win the cup. And if you win the cup, you don't give a shit.

But I thought it would be something like a fourth or a fifth. And I'm like, take it. For sure. Think of the kick in the ass it would give the room. Paddy's back! Think of how happy they'd be. You talk about Mitch instantly being back in his happy place. The Greyhounds factor makes me cringe a little.

Why? Well, everybody brings that up now. Well, I'm just looking down. So, well, besides, like, okay, Dubas, okay, another Greyhound, we get it. Thornton's last season in Sault Ste. Marie was 96-97. Do you understand that was the first year of the Wings winning back-to-back cups? Yeah, that was a long time ago. That was, Bill Clinton was president.

Yeah. Was that his first or second term? Like, that was, that's ancient history, man. Anyway, there's people that know Kyle that know him, and that's probably why. Okay. Anyway, I want to move on from this. Tyson Berry, the reason he was not traded at the deadline. So apparently what the Leafs were looking for was a Shattenkirk a la 2007 trade.

And according to Elliott Friedman, they would have taken Troy Stetcher, but the Canucks didn't have the picks and made it very clear that certain prospects were not available. 2017, you mean? Sorry, that's what I meant. Okay, I was like, how long is Shattenkirk going to be? Yeah, no. It said 2017. Ergo, no match.

So it came down to assets available. Toronto was looking for one of those Kevin Shattenkirk 2017 returns rather than, say, a third rounder, which is what most teams offered. That's right out of the Brian Brooks School of Managing. Don't make a trade for less than you want because everyone knows you'll eventually cave. So had JT Miller not ended up in Vancouver, I highly doubt Vancouver would even be where they are without JT Miller. I thought that was a crazy trade at the time. It's turned out great for them. But that first round pick is in Tampa.

Which I believe they then parlayed into Blake Coleman. Now, I want to ask you something about this trade deadline. You were there the whole time, Steve. You were there. Jesse, you watched a ton of it. I want to know, guys, your winners for the East. Who's your East trade deadline winner? Well, Carolina got significantly better.

Don't go through a list of teams. Tell me who your winner is. like i'll just take a tampa take a look yeah why do you say tampa uh they will not putting my damn foot down they will not do this year what they did last now you were saying at the beginning of the season that they were broken and look something snapped look at them now something did snap they weren't in a playoff spot like around christmas something like that um or at least in the beginning of december and they like the oilers you know when they went through their little streak i went oh there go the oilers again told

you they suck and something has changed something's changed with them and something has changed with tampa tampa added some meat which they really lacked blake coleman's contract rules uh he's meat and skill a first for barclay goudreau is in some sort of acid trip that was weird i didn't understand that i don't there must have been another buyer on barclay goudreau elliot friedman gave me a damn heart attack because i got he was uh he said first for goudreau and it was like goudreau to tampa and like everyone went what he's like barclay barclay and we all went oh wait what like yeah it was a different what um they have more meat and they have an attitude that they did not have last year and probably the most important factor an unconcussed victor

headman yeah that's a big one that's so big yeah screwed them yeah so but whoever team is deep as tampa i know victor headman's one of their big guys but it should not make you lose to columbus in four games. So now here's the funny thing about Tampa's fate. So I think they're going to win the East. So they're going to finish first, which means they've got to play a wild card team. Well, the two wild card teams right now are the Islanders, who juiced up, and the Hurricanes, who juiced up.

Oh, man, the Hurricanes had a great time. Where have I seen this movie before? Where have I seen this before? Oh, yeah. Tampa playing a wild card team that juiced up. Unless they hop, and I don't know even who they're hopping. Who's the top three in the Metro right now? The Penguins, the Caps.

Oh, in the Metro? Whom am I forgetting? It is. You've got Washington with 84, Pittsburgh with 80, and Philadelphia with 79. That's another team I was wrong about, man. I was wrong about all the Orange teams. Yeah, really underrated. The Flyers.

Killing it. The Islanders are basically a win away, and they have the same. They've played one less game than the Flyers from basically tying them. I don't know what their head-to-head over the season is, though. Columbus is the second wildcard team, which is un-flippin'-believable. Carolina is the first team out. The Rangers are the second team out of the wildcard, and they are tied with the Florida Panthers,

but they are up on the Florida Panthers as they have a game in hand. This is what I was saying last episode. There's nowhere to hide in the playoffs. So you're one of those teams. Your prospects are finish second wildcard, play Tampa probably, finish first wildcard, play, I guess, Washington. Washington or Pittsburgh. Or finish third and play Pittsburgh, yeah.

Demons. Yeah, it's awful. It's awful. There's nowhere to hide. Jesse, who is your East winner for the trade deadline? I think this team deserves the biggest round of applause for turning around not only just, like, the PR around the team, but also just the hauls they got asset-wise in terms of hockey deals.

Third round pick 2020 from Winnipeg, 2021 conditional sixth, a 2021 fourth round pick, a conditional first, second, a third, Matthew Pekka, a 2021 fifth. The Ottawa Senators. Yeah. Damn. You understood how to sell. Like, they sold and they sold hard. Because they didn't last year.

Because they didn't last year. But you've got to give kudos to the team for doing what they should do, and I think they nailed it. Is it weird of me to say that I think they got more for Peugeot than they got for Carlson? Kind of. Ooh, what did they get for Carlson? It was like DeMello and –

They might end up getting the first overall pick for Carlson. Yes. That's true. Lafreniere. Whoop, and you win. Yeah, you do, you do. And you win. And the Matthew Pekka deal, I know – I think it was Friedman who had it.

That was to kind of top up the AHL Senators, because they're currently third in the AHL and first in their division. Bing Hampton. Bing Hampton. And then Pekka's going to go down there and give them some help. But I think Ottawa did a great job selling. They got so much for Peugeot. They sold DeMello.

They sold Nemesikov, which is a free asset. And yeah, I think they have a great haul. And Tyler Ennis as well. I forgot that one. I'm surprised they didn't get more for him. Great pickup for Edmonton. Yeah. Steve, I'm also going to go with you on my East winner.

My East winner is Tampa Bay. My East winner is Tampa Bay because of the bodies they added. And listen, I think the price they paid was pretty high. I mean, the Tampa Bay Lightning gave up Nolan Foote and a first-round pick in either this year or next year for Blake Coleman. However, Blake Coleman's contract's great. The Devils got more for Coleman than they did for Hull. Yes, they did.

Yes, they did. Crazy. Straight up. They got Zach Bogosian for nothing. And listen, is Zach Bogosian a great game-breaking defenseman? No. Free. But you know, how many defensemen did Vancouver use on their run to the playoffs in 2011 that you keep talking about?

13. 13. Yeah, you love that number. So you kind of need defense. You look at the Leafs. We're a month and a half away from the playoffs, and the Leafs are on their ninth guy. Brian Burke loves bringing it up, but they used nine defensemen when the Ducks won in 2007. Between February and the end of the playoffs, which I thought was very interesting that that was the timeline he used.

not the beginning of the playoffs from the deadline to the end of the playoffs dude you need more than six defenders you need more than uh 12 forwards and in some cases you need uh more than two goalies and the barclay goudreau signing or not signing trade while odd to me it's odd uh because it's a very expensive one um he's a bastard and he is yeah this is a guy that you don't want to play against and I think Tampa recognized and I think that the Leafs are starting to get there and this is the whole thing with the Leafs and this is where I'm excited about this and Greg Millen brought this up on the broadcast too last night he said I see Tampa as the Leafs three years from now because what Tampa has done is they they developed and draft based

on skill the problem with the Leafs for years is they didn't they draft they developed and draft based on he's tough and can kind of score sometimes and what that translates to in the NHL is he's not an NHL player. So what the Leafs went out and did is they got a bunch of skilled guys. And what you can do with skilled guys then and prospects, like with Nolan Foote,

like with your draft picks, is you can go out and get the guys that are NHL-level players but are also bastards. And let's talk about Clifford, the big blue dog. We got Jake Muzzin. There will be more ads like that

in the coming seasons. Kasperi Kapanen developing into an SOB to play against really tough developing and there will be more guys and i i bet you the leafs get it's not tough it's that skilled tough i don't like playing you it's annoying to put on my pads and know that i gotta play blake coleman and barclay goudreau oh and by the way kucherov stamkos and all these other and yanni gordon and brayden point and all these guys these other guys at the con smith gala uh for easter seals doug gilmore got up on stage and talked and like he still remembers he's like i remember going out there and against the chicago blackhawks

and before i even get on the ice i'm like all right who who we got we got chris chalios he's gonna take my head off i got dave manson he's gonna take my head off and he just goes down the list i can't even remember all the names we got this guy he's gonna kill me and then take my head off he's you know just going down going down the list it's it's we we we talked about it who on on your team makes you go ugh yeah who on the other team there are guys in the other team who can ruin your day before you even lock eyes with them that's right and they get in your head beforehand now that's going to be tough against boston who is a bunch of players that are like that you know tampa and boston are going to meet this playoffs you just know it's going to happen

i feel it in my bones but who was on who is who's uh was on the ice for a goal for the blues talking shit to the Bruins bench saying saying and I quote you guys are fucked said to the Bruins who said it Patrick Moran dude it's you know what as long as we're going retro with podcast references I did nail something a few years ago I frigging nailed it what'd you say guys like Tom Wilson are going to become the market inefficiency they are no one's got big guys who can play anymore and the best teams do it's the new market inefficiency and now that the nhl has decided to completely pull the brake on this whole uh little guy speed game it's becoming a problem for some teams man tampa is and they got maroon now too

yeah it's they're no joke there's no possible way they repeat last year i'll be stunned and And with Tampa, is there a line on Tampa that isn't a pain to play against? And after a seven-game series, which might only last four games against Tampa, they are going to grind you down. And I think they added the right guys. I think Goudreau is a high price to pay, but I really think they can win. I think he's eighth in the league in penalty minutes, which I think is absurd. I think that's part of the game he plays, but yeah, it's a little hard.

For a first-round pick. I'd be curious to know Penalty minutes are not Necessary penalties They could be fighting majors They could be a game misconduct Kerfoot I don't think is among the lead leaders In penalty minutes

But boy that guy takes a lot of minors You know what I mean So I don't know if Goudreau is like that I think if you're top 10 There's a there there It's like if you're a Minus 5 in a game your team Won 7-5

You know, maybe plus minus means something in that instance. I think if you go top 10 in penalty minutes, your penalty minutes might mean something. It might mean that you're a tough guy or you take too many minors. But in 2020, to be top 10 in penalty minutes, get into half a dozen fights. That's it. Yeah, it's true. He's only got 80 penalty minutes this year, guys. Like it's not some major.

80 penalty minutes used to get you traded for being soft. Yeah. It's not much. It's nothing. A first-round pick just seems like a lot. It is a lot. There's no question. It is.

It is, but Tampa's banking on it being 31st. Unless that's Vancouver. Who is your West winner? Man, I have done a complete 180 on this team. They're legit. I think last night they showed they're legit, and the deadline just they did such a wonderful job. The Edmonton Oilers.

Yeah, man. That was bad. So what do you like? You got Andreas Athanasiou. You got Tyler Ennis. And by the way, that line looked ridiculous. How great has Tyler Ennis' life been? Like, you were stuck in Minnesota.

They wouldn't play you. You come to Toronto, revive your career a little bit, get your back in order, sign in Ottawa, knowing you're not going to be there probably very long, and they're not going to be a very good team, but you're going to get a spotlight on you, and all of a sudden you're playing with McDavid. Dude, and you know what? I was wrong about how good or bad the Oilers would be this season at the beginning. I still don't feel bad about having that reasoning at the beginning of the season.

They didn't look good on paper. Kehler Yamamoto, though I said they needed wingers, Kehler Yamamoto comes up and he's been fantastic for them. It's a really unfortunate injury for him, but it's offset by they go out and they get – Andreas Athanasiou is not the best player in the league, but he's one of the fastest. That's what they needed.

Now you – You have the best player in the league. and you have one of the fastest and now you have the next guy who can play next to him it's amazing all you need is Kisperi Kapanen you can shut down McDavid you can shut down McDavid if you lock in on him

and then you're hoping that his teammates get the puck and you're just hoping for the best really now with the fantasy you you're fucked and then Tyler Ennis over there too and again what I was saying is I didn't think

I know their cap situation was screwed up, but it wouldn't cost much to upgrade the Oilers' wing situation. And you nailed it. They paid a fifth for Tyler Ennis, who I was surprised they didn't sign him. Ottawa got him for $800,000, and he's from there. What did Athenasiou— Athenasiou was two seconds, and they solved a little bit of cap issue by sending Gagne the other way. Right. Sam Gagne.

20-20 second, 20-21 second, Sam Gagné, and in return, Anathiasius. Anathanasius. Adam and I only know that because we went to school with one. No, really. The Anathanasius clan. We called him, I think I see you. A. Heller, Ryan Kuffner. Ah.

Oh, right. Kuff Daddy. Yeah, we always call him. But I think, how can you not say the team that won in the West for trade deadline is the team that built an entire first line? You know? Now the Oilers are set. They have this McDavid line. So that's your pick, too, is Edmonton.

That's 100%. And then even Mike Green is a depth defenseman, but he's a body. It's like they got that also. So I think 100% Edmonton did a great job. I think he's very good in the right situation. I think Mike Green's great for a power play situation. That only looks like power play is a problem. Clef bombs down with an injury right now.

But imagine, say, Clef bomb is that injury goes into the playoffs or someone else goes down. You've got Mike Green, and he doesn't need to score 30 goals like he used to. Green offsets that, yeah. Yeah, he knows what to do. At this point for Edmonton, it's really about, can I get a defenseman up there at the point who can think the game? If he can think the game and get Dreisaitl, McDavid, the puck, boom, done.

We're good. They're going to be a problem in the playoffs. They're a problem. I'm not totally sold on their goaltending, but, boy, they look all right, man. They look all right. And, like, forget the burners they got. But, again, the playoffs are different. You're going to spend four to seven games with Zach Kassian,

Jujar Kara, and Darnell Nurse. And people forget what a shithead James Neal is in the playoffs too. Like, oh, that's going to be so very, very not fun for you. Kassian's out, right? I think he's only got a couple games left or something. Yeah, it's going to be ugly when he comes back. Now, does he go back on the first line with McDavid? No.

Unless you need a tough guy up front if someone's trying to push McDavid around. People always forget you can just change line mid-game. Yeah. And his first shift, never mind. I'm going to go with a different one. And I'm going to go with the Vegas Golden Knights. Vegas Golden Knights are my West winner. And I think Vegas Golden Knights are going to the finals, guys.

Again. For the third straight year. Despite only making it once. Let's go. I think Vegas is going to the finals. Robin Leonard is a hell of a pickup. Now, Marc-Andre Fleury's had, I guess, a bit of an up-and-down season. But if you look at, by the way, if you're not watching the Pacific Division right now

with a big old bag of popcorn, you are missing out or you're dead inside. Or both. It's a lot of fun. It is the best. Oh, I love that division. Vegas, 76 points. Vancouver, 74. Edmonton, 74.

And Calgary, 72. And look who's squeaking into a playoff spot. nashville how many of those teams you just named will have new head coaches head coaches they didn't start the season with can you say the teams again now nashville by the way is in the is in the central i'm throwing that out there but i just was throwing that out nashville is one calgary so you got vegas vegas vancouver edmonton calgary one two three four the point spread is four points from first to the first wildcard. Where's Arizona?

They have 70 points. They're fourth. And Winnipeg also has 70 points. Are they in the playoffs, though? They're not. Nashville is. Arizona's not? No.

After getting Taylor Hall. No, because they have played 66 games, and Nashville's only played 62. I know I got mad and said a lot of mean things about Darren Ferris over the summer. Taylor Hall is throwing money in a volcano

oh my god yeah also thanks for nothing Coyotes yesterday letting Florida beat you yeah seriously thanks for nothing

not good and Winnipeg is still in there god bless them just not can't stop won't stop the Jets dude

I think especially the goaltending I know they got Alec Martinez and some other players as well but to me

Robin Leonard what's that Martina's on fire. Anytime you have the opportunity to add the previous season's Vezina winner. Nominee. Nominee, excuse me. And you win the Masterton, right? Yes.

Anytime you have the chance to do that for a second round pick, you do it. They paid shit all. Nothing. To have one of the best tandems going into the playoffs. And you weren't confident in Malcolm Subban. They had the same similar issues that we'd had with Michael Hutchinson. Man, I think it was a great pickup. I think they paid a lot for Alec Martinez.

Two second-round picks is a lot. However, he's going to be—this is a win-now team, and he's a win-now player, and they needed him, and they couldn't wait for those second-round picks to develop into players. That's for five years from now. That's not what they're worried about. Let's not forget the Leafs also acquired Robin Leonard and then subsequently traded him to Vegas. And he's going to wear 90? And someone jokingly said, oh, is that for David Ayers?

And he said, sure, why not? Would anyone be shocked if Robin Leonard did that? Like, on purpose? I'm pretty sure he's exactly the kind of person who would do that on purpose. That would be kind of funny. It would be kind of funny. I wish that it was. But, yeah, Toronto's paying $2.5 million of his salary so he can play for Vegas.

We bought ourselves a pro-rated. Now, technically, it's $200,000. Oh, is it? But we bought ourselves a fifth-round pick for $200,000. That's not bad. So some people, yeah, I saw a lot of people, Man, $2.5 million for a fifth? No.

No, prorated is... Do you know what prorated means? Yes. It's also that money wouldn't have mattered. No, exactly. Even if it was $10 million, MLSC would just sell a couple jerseys. I did not know Martin's Jerk House... Oh, no, we'll sign another sponsorship deal.

Come on. I didn't know Martin's Jerk House still existed. I didn't know he was still in the leagues. Yeah, no. It was funny. Getting his quotes, he's like, it was nice to hear my name out there. He's like, I was kind of surprised. I was having my nap, and my phone blew up, and he's like, I didn't, I just, it wasn't

even something I thought about. I don't know what Vegas is, sorry, did he end up with Vegas or Chicago? Vegas. Vegas, yeah. I don't know what their farm team's like, because I've got to imagine it's still not all that robust on account of they just got here. Do they have a team? I think they split the Wolves with someone.

Yeah. That would be with Chicago. Oh, wait, no, that's San Diego. No, Chicago's got Rockford, which is confusing. Who's got the Gulls then? Because there aren't 31 AHL teams, right? No, they're not. No, there's only, like, 20.

I think it's just the Chicago Bulls. Oh, okay. Interesting. I don't know. Okay, well, listen. I'm not sure. I got to ask you guys this. What is your trade deadline but why moment?

Why? Your but why trade? Oh, but trade. It could be a moment. It doesn't have to be a trade. Got to be a little bit Wayne Simmons, right? That's my pick. I'm Wayne Simmons all the way on that one.

Well, and he didn't really want to move all that much. It sounds like he wanted to be closer to his dogs. Like, that's legitimately a reason, and I feel that. Children as well. He has kids. I never heard that brought up on Ice Serving once. It was all his dogs. Yeah, they were talking about it.

They were doing this on Trade Center, and they were talking about, hey, he's going to be closer to his dogs than somebody who's like, and he has kids. And I was like, oh, that's a good point. And they're like, yeah, that's probably a good point, too. For sure. Are they based in Toronto, then? Yes.

He's got a bunch of property here, too, in Scarborough. Good for him. For sure. I don't know. Like, is that the devil's doing him a solid? I guess maybe he only wanted to go two places, right? Toronto, close to home, or Buffalo, I guess, is the second closest. Buffalo's sort of in the hunt.

Yep. Why not? The thing is, they're not that far out of it. I mean, they're pretty far. It was a bit confusing for me. You know what? I'm going to defend Jason Botterill, though, because what do they give up? A fifth?

That's nothing. That's nothing. The Leafs bought one for 200 grand. At some point, like, dude, like, the whole Dwayne thing. Try. Show the fans you're trying anything. You don't even have to succeed. Try, for God's sake.

Like, you should have enough picks in the friggin' system that you can afford to spend a fifth on Wayne Simmons and the chance that he might get you two home playoff dates. There was also the thing about them just needing bodies because they sent out Shiri and who was the other player? Rodriguez. Evan Rodriguez. Dominic Cahoon. Yeah, and they just needed guys in the lineup, you know, and Simmons was a free gift. Apparently he's got a great attitude, though.

And I knew Wayne growing up. He's a great guy. And so I'm assuming that's changed. But Buffalo not maybe have that like an attitude problem they do and this so that's why I want to bring this up That's why I wanted to save this discussion now Buffalo is for sure my what-the-fuck moment of the of the trade deadline because it the first time it and it doesn't have to me It doesn't mean it doesn't make sense later, but at first you're like what why? Barclay Goodrow for the thing also Thornton not going after requesting a trade

That's mine the hundred-year-old guy being like I want to I want to leave it go Doug Wilson going, come to me. Right. I am Duggeth Wilson. Duggeth. The third. No, I, okay, so this is my thing, and there's something, and maybe Sabres fans can help me out with this one because they don't understand it.

Every time Buffalo gets somebody, it's, this guy hopefully will make Jack Eichel happy. Do you not hear that? Now, that's what the outside media is saying about Buffalo. The inside media, like Mike Harrington, is not. Mike Harrington said, you idiots, you morons. Of course they're making a playoff push. They're not that far out of it. That's what he said.

And then he retweeted a bunch of people that agreed with him. And he was like, see, right? Exactly. Oh, my God. Yeah. Listen. Oh, I'm sure I got a lot of views from Buffalo. There were a lot of Schadenfreude views in there.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I just, I got to ask the question. And I understand why Jack Eichel wouldn't be happy. I get it. I don't think the entire city of Buffalo, every Sabres fan, is pissed right now. However, Jack Eichel is the common denominator now. I know what you mean.

And I'm not suggesting he's the problem. I know what you mean. But at what point is Jack Eichel going to be the solution? And it's got to be more than on ice product. Jack, you're the captain. What are you doing to set the mood? we've seen your weird ridiculous uh uh the thing that you do before the game what are you doing and this is just a question i'm not suggesting that he's not but i haven't heard a lot about

you're not hearing a lot about well jack eichel takes the rookies out for eating food for eating food food eating i'm not saying it doesn't happen but is that happening is jack eichel being the guy that's helping to try to set the mood here and if why is it that ryan o'reilly guy who goes on to win the stanley cup who notoriously had a great attitude everywhere else he went and he said i lost my will to play the game jack jason whoever the coach is now i don't even know ralph kruger what is it guys what is it i wonder like we never we've never done this to mcdavid right no because nobody was this miserable yeah like even mcdavid well we were talking about like Man, he's going to request a trade.

Dude, if they had not performed this year, we'd still be talking about it. But they turned it around. Ken Holland's done a great job. With McDavid, it was more, he's going to leave because everything around him sucks. Here's with, hey, what's going on with the guys who are there? And it seems like Jack Eichel's the guy who's there. He's the guy that keeps being there. And every year we keep hearing about how everybody's unhappy in Buffalo.

Who's the guy that's not been traded yet? It is an interesting thing. I'm trying to... Is it Rasmus Ristelainen? Is that the guy bringing the room down? Is it Zemgus Gergensen? He asked for a trade. He did.

I was, you know what? I'm a little surprised Rasmus Vistalina didn't go anywhere. I think their asking price for him is just too high. They think he's a great player. He's not. He's okay. No, he's doomsday when it comes to a trade because he puts up, he makes a lot of money, puts up tons of points, and is bad.

It's not a good combination, right? He puts up tons of points. He puts up tons of points and has tons of skill, and he's huge. Yeah. Everything, you're checking off all the GM friggin' dream boxes. Can't defend. What do you want? We should also throw in Jeff Skinner, who's gone from 40 goals to 12 goals and 9 assists.

Now, so we brought him up, and Sabres fans are like, do you know who his line mates are? And I can't even remember who they are. That's how bad it was. Well, maybe his line mates are that because he's been terrible. You know? You can't. You can't. Especially from the wing.

You can't do that. You can't just put a winger with not very good center, not very good. I want to say he was with Marcus Johansson, though. Why isn't he playing with Jack Eichel? Well, that's what he was brought in to do. And that, you have to think, might be Jack Eichel saying no. It's Olofsson, Eichel, Reinhardt, Skinner, Johansson, Simmons, Vesey, Lazar, Froehlich. Curtis Lazar is still playing in the NHL, by the way.

I didn't know that. Gergensons, Larson, and Ocposo. Oh, that's an expensive fourth line! Jesus! Ocposo's $6 million until 2023. And, like, that's not all

his fault. No, he's had some pretty bad health issues. Holy shit! Wow. One thing that's great about Buffalo is they have a lot of expiring contracts after this season. Yeah, they might be able to do some damage, but the problem is they brought in Johansson, and they re-signed Skinner, and it didn't make a difference.

What is it? And this is the thing. At a certain point, yes, it's miserable, but if you're the leader and you're making the most money, it's time for you to step up. It is an interesting thing that sort of goes unaccounted for. Like, a lot of guys at the top of the draft, they're the best, obviously. And if you're the best, you win, right?

So he played where, BU? Boston College, I think? Yeah. Boston, whatever. Sorry. Better than BO. That's good. Hey, that's going to drive Boston people crazy, because I know there's two universities, they

have virtually the same name, and they hate each other. Anyway, he played for the red one, right? Whichever one that is. Oh, he played for the communist school. I see. Ah, I think he won, what's it called, the beanpot? I don't know. Dude.

They love it. No one else cares. Let's move forward with the point. I ate a lot of quads. No, no, no. But he likes, that dude likes two things, scoring against the Leafs. And winning. And winning.

Yes. He usually only does one of them. Scores against the Leafs. Scores against the Leafs. And you won that game. Good for you. Doing, you know, winning a regular season game, something any shit team will do 35 times. You know what I mean?

Unless you're Detroit. Then you might do it 15 times. What are they at? I think they're at 14 wins. Yeah. Will, the race for 15 is on, ladies and gentlemen. They're at 15 wins. Sorry.

They got their 15. The race for 16 is on. If Kyle Dubas' inspirational YouTube video that he posted is to be believed, the Red Wings are about to go on a winning streak. Yeah, that's right. Hey, getting rid of all your players, is it a bad thing? Maybe. Remains to be seen.

Remains to be seen. Adam is making a point that will be misconstrued as a hot take, but Jack Eichel is indeed the common denominator. Jason Botterill, I think he's done a terrible job. I agree. He's done a terrible job. Objectively bad. You are not mincing words.

No, he will not have his job next year. He's going to get fired. Okay. Like, there's some GMs where I'm like, I think he's getting fired. Jason Botterill is getting fired. He's done. That's when big change happens. And then I don't know what the Sabres offseason is going to look like.

But if you have a new GM, they bring in a ton of different people. They have a lot of cap space to play with, it sounds like. and nothing changes you're not looking to move off of jack eichel he's too good but you are looking for something some move of significance like you are like do you got to take the locker room away from him is that it do you take the c off him how do you do that i don't know that's a no win it's a no win but your job like okay it can be the smallest thing the leafs literally went into arizona shelton keeps first game that with no mission of winning that game we are getting tyson berry a fucking goal yeah that was scored first yay your mission is to make

jack happy maybe what's it gonna take maybe jack's mission should be to make the people around jack happy maybe so here's the thing good when you're the captain what okay it might not be but here's the thing look at this let me i don't know i mean what else could it be at what point like process of elimination how many coaches has he had yeah how many gms has he had i know what you're doing right you're going through okay is it the coach well abc is it the gm well abc is it wingers well ABC. Is it at some point it's you. You've been there the whole time. Right. And again

this isn't a personal attack. It's maybe it's maturity. But when you're the captain and he's captain at a young age Not everyone can do what Taves did, man. True. Captain at a young age in a tough market in a frankly an organization that has just been a disaster.

I do not hold any of that against Jack. I understand that. No one looks at the Sabres and goes, boy, they're really putting jack in a position to succeed no they've done everything they cannot to however he's going to have to react to that anyway he's living that he signed there he decided to sign the the you know the 70 million dollar contract there so you're gonna have to deal with it and and i think or was it 80 million i think it was 80 and i think here's the thing when you're a great player the thing that you need to focus on is being a great player right you're a great player and you

focus on being great you do whatever you can to make it great when you're a great player and you're a captain you have to focus on being a great player and you have to focus on making sure that the dressing room is all rowing in the same direction and i'm not saying that he's not i'm questioning whether or not it's been effective and i'm questioning why i'm questioning why and i'm not blaming but at a certain point here people are the spotlight does come to you and i think jack eichel's done everything he can to be a great player i'm wondering what the heck the sabers need to do to get that leadership sorted out and frankly to get some better players in there are you kidding me with some of these guys you can't find depth options that are better

than this and and let me throw this out that's not fair to jack either right so i'm trying to be as fair as possible tampa choked in the east last year who choked in the west i know my pick I have to think about it. Sharks. Oh, yeah. To me, the Sharks choked, and you can throw that at Vegas. What was the series again? Who did they play?

They played... Well, they came back from 3-1 to beat Vegas. Right, which was just crazy. In that game of shenaniganery. In that game that you guys thought Vegas shouldn't have had because of the OT call. 100%. Whatever. Stop the power play.

Yeah. Stop the power play once. At all. Wasn't it like three times? I forget. It was three or four goals. It was insane. And then they tied it again.

And anyway, the Sharks should have won the Stanley Cup last year. They couldn't get a fucking save. And Buffalo has had, after the Hashek years and the Ryan Miller years, it was so infuriating that the Sabres went immediately from Hashek's prime to Miller's prime. Pretty much immediately. It was very frustrating as a Leafs fan. You need a frigging save. And over the last little bit, they've actually been getting it.

They just beat the Jets 2-1. They beat the Penguins 5-2. They got friggin' steamrolled 7-4 by the Sens. We're not going to talk about that. The 5-2 game against the Leafs. 4-3 win against the Blue Jackets. 3-2 win against the Red Wings. Lose 3-2 to the Ducks.

Win 3-2 over the Rangers. They've had a nice little run. They've actually been getting saves. Yeah. They need some. Yeah. Okay. You know what improves attitude?

You know what improves morale? Saves. And winning. Winning. Yeah, you feel a lot better when you feel like your goalie can make a save. Yes. And I know he probably would never want to do it, but Robin Leonard and Buffalo sure makes a lot of sense this offseason, doesn't it?

Oh, man. Well, and I don't think he would ever go back. Again, because there's a whole different thing with that. That dude got a tattoo of Long Island. Yeah. He was there for five seconds. Literally, like, 40 games he played. Something like that.

Apparently, the reason he was traded to, according to reports out of Chicago, and Blackhawks fans are pissed about this, is that Stan Bowman wouldn't go more than two years with him. Like, why? You need somebody to play goalie. Like, I just don't get it. I mean, he's an odd duck, right? Stan? No, Leonard. Sure.

And I'm talking beyond. But his numbers have been great on a bad team. I believe, isn't Chicago number one in high danger scoring chances allowed? I don't know. Like, it's crazy. Those two goalies have worked their asses off. They have. Dude, Crawford-Lenner is unreal.

And I remember when they signed Lenner going, oh, they're trading Crawford. No. That's what I thought. I don't know how you fail with a tandem like that. And the Chicago Blackhawks are like, want to bet? And they went out and did it. So congrats for beating the odds there. And now the best tandem is arguably in Vegas.

But, like, he's – Lenner, like, I just – you read his Twitter and you're like, so hey what's your deal and like it's mostly fun but like i just i wonder if because we we always talk about how stuffy hockey culture is i wonder if like the blackhawks and the islanders and they just go yeah he stops the puck but you're weird that's too bad and then vegas is like welcome to the capital of weird yeah we can do weird he might have a great time in vegas they might love him there because welcome to the mecca of weird and mark stone was another guy who's he's like he's so quiet it's a little weird like he's so you've seen the butt of a stick no he takes like an entire roll of tape look at i'll try to weird guy no yeah weird guy the other weird moment from the

trade deadline is the moment that didn't happen which is when zach parise and andrew ladd both raised waved their no trade clauses and the trade didn't happen so uh it was between the wild and the islanders lad i don't believe is even on the nhl roster at this point and this is point number 19 and 31 thoughts from elliott freeman both andrew ladd and zach parise wave their respective clauses to switch teams it's going to take some time to figure out what happened here but here's the best i can give you at this time the move was on the table last summer but then while gm paul fenton steve you're going to want to listen to this yeah i'm listening then no no it's because This is Paul Fenton.

Paul Fenton rejected the idea. Both sides revisited over the past few weeks, but the issue was money. Parise has $37 million in cap to go after this season. Only $19 is actual cash. Ladd is $16.5 million, $12 million in cash. $9 million of it is signing bonuses, which Parise has no more of. There were all sorts of issues to consider on keeping money slash sweeteners to do so. There were rumblings that Kiefer Bellows was going to be a part of the deal, for example.

People were concerned about Lou Lamorello's reaction if it got out prematurely. For very legitimate reasons, Minnesota was concerned about cap recapture issues if Parise retired early. Because remember, he's in one of those weird deals. And isn't he like 37? I don't know. Yeah, he's mid-30s. And he's got a crazy amount of years left? Although I'm sure the Minnesota native would have been amenable to the solutions.

It's not an easy deal to make, and who knows where it goes from here. I do know the Islanders had interest in Mikko. I do believe the Islanders had interest in Mikko Koivu. Who preferred to stay put? And he said he exercises no trade. I'm not going. Lou, again, like, listen, we praised him last episode. I'll stand by that.

Should not be a GM. No, he should be team police officer. Yeah. And, like, even he's, like, he brings a discipline and a culture to a team. Like, no one can argue that the Islanders are worse off, right, since he got there. They're much better. But that guy leaves financial ruin in his wake. Well, and that brings me to the Peugeot deal.

What is it? It's, oh my God, let me pull it up. Sorry, I've just processed too much over the past week. No, that's okay. 48 hours, 72 hours. Okay, Jean-Gabriel Peugeot. Give me a sec. It is $5 million until 2025-2026.

He has a no-trade clause in the first two years and a modified the last four. How old is he? He is currently, I believe, 27. 27. And it's a five-year deal? Yep. Takes him to 32. Five million bucks.

Five times five is what he got? Yep. No, he got six times five. Oh, six times five. Yeah, so he got a $30 million over six years. I don't hate that. I don't hate that. It also costs them a lot.

It costs them a first, second, and a third, man. Yeah, that's true. But if you're going to spend that much on a player, you might as well keep him. You might as well get Barclay Goudreau. Am I right? And yeah, you flip that shit. No, you have to keep them. And the third's only if they win the Stanley Cup.

It'll be a first and a second unless they win the Stanley Cup. It's funny, that's the throw-in. All right. Hey, we won the Cup. No, dude, like a second-line center in the NHL costs $7 million these days. So to get Peugeot... Who's the third-line center? Can be second, I think.

Or like a second-third. He can be your 2.5 center. For $5 million, I think that's all right. Okay. Does well in the playoffs. I don't hate that. I don't hate that. There are things to pick on with Lou Lamorello, but I wouldn't do that one.

The thing I'd like to pick on with Ottawa is the fact that, first off, Ottawa fans were pissed. And I understand that maybe you don't want to keep Peugeot because you want to get some assets for them, and he did get assets for them, but that's a local guy. Local guy who's been there. They weren't going to go term with him, though. Yeah. You got to sell. At some point, like, that one disappoints me.

Like, because there was also, when I saw Duclair didn't get traded, I'm like, oh, yeah, maybe they'll keep someone. Like, you got to keep someone for crying out loud. The fact they wouldn't give that money to Peugeot, who can, like, he can obviously be a performer. People like him there. Can be, over the years, can be a vet to the young team that they're going to have to have

because of the way they're building. The fact that Ottawa wouldn't spend $5 million a year on that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I totally get where Sens fans are coming from. Now, Sens fans are never going to be too unhappy with this team, at least between now and the draft lottery,

because if the Islanders miss, and the Sharks are going to miss and the Sens are going to miss, If the Islanders miss, Lou only top three protected that pick. It is unlikely, but it is entirely possible the Ottawa Senators could pick first, second, and fourth in 2020. They have seven draft picks in the first two rounds. This draft.

Also, you've got to keep around old guys to mentor the young guys. They have those guys. Bobby Ryan's 31, Anisimov is 32. Like, they have guys who've been around. We did underrated thing last night. Bobby Ryan celebrated 100 days of sobriety. It was his first hockey game since November 16th, and he made his comeback there.

So, yeah, I thought that was really cool. And with all those picks, you can, if you wanted to, I'm not saying they're going to do this or even that it's a good idea, but if the right fit happens, you can flip those picks for a vet. Yeah, or just try and hit on three first-round picks. I wouldn't trade one of the first. But I'd be like, I have three first-round picks. LOL seconds.

Right. You got four seconds. Spend them like a drunken sailor. Yeah. Or you just try to hit as many times as you can. But the Belleville Sens are already awesome. Right. And what happened to the Marlies when they were awesome?

They all graduated, and now they're on the Leafs. There you go. I'm very hopeful for the Senators' future. That's all I'm saying. But Peugeot could have been a guy. Right. That's a perfect mentor. Yeah, if you're a Saints fan, I got to imagine you're like, which one are we keeping?

Like, are we even going to keep Brady Kachuk at this point? Like, we just get rid of everybody. Like, when is... Kachuk's the guy. Here, let's just ask the question. When is Eugene Melnick opening his wallet? You just answered your question. Kachuk.

Kachuk. You have to keep it. You must keep it. There's your guy. That guy is Peugeot. You talked about Tom Wilson. Peugeot was a now deal. You talked about Tom Wilson being the market inefficiency?

Yes. That's what Brady Kachuk is. 100%. And sorry, I should say, he did open up his wallet for Tom Shabbat. But that's it. Dude, it takes more than two players! No, but that's your starting point. Also, Ron Hainsey's on the team.

That's true. They're Stanley Cup contenders. Also, if the Sens do pick first, second, and fourth, the Sens are in for a rude awakening. They have to sell this frigging team. That's a big jump. I know. No, but heaven forbid they get the first, second, and fourth, right? And they're awesome.

Of course they are. They're first, second, and fourth. Or even you just get, I don't know, first, eighth, and twelfth. Who cares? You got the first pick, right? You got to pay them. Take it from a lead man. Here's the really shitty side effect about good players.

You got to pay them. That sucks. When are the Sens going to pay their players? I guess when they get some good ones. Like, all these picks mean nothing if they don't plan on keeping anybody. They're going to be around for three years under their ELC. And then, bye. That gives them three years to sell them.

Right. Yeah. And you flip them for picks? No. And then you don't pay those guys either. You answered your own question. Pay someone. It's Shabbat.

It's Kachuk. It's three first-round picks. You got a lot of veteran guys already there. You got Belleville doing amazing. They're set up. I'm not too worried. Listen. You'll get a goaltender eventually.

there's there's there's a framework for this working but it involves spending a little money sure and maybe will they do that maybe hopefully someone is in position in ownership who is willing to spend that money when the time comes yeah because right now it's not the whatever however it happens hopefully somebody in ownership is there at the time who will spend money whether it be Eugene, whether it be someone else, hopefully that person is there. Mean Gene. Good old Jeannie Melman. Eugene Melman.

Let's do a press conference. The Presser SDP. The Steve Dangle Press Conference. Very quick. I thought one of the most interesting things out of trade deadline was, and I'd like to hear your opinions on this,

trades can still be made post trade deadline. Yes. Because of the... They bring that up every year. It's not a trade deadline. It's a playoff roster deadline, is what Monday was. So non-playoff teams can make a trade. No, any team can make a trade.

Anybody. Oh, they can't play in the playoffs. You can add guys, and they cannot... Do you see this year being the year where a team adds a guy, say the Leafs, if more defensemen go down, he plays these last 18 games, and then they make the playoffs, everyone's healthy, and he has to sit out? If he's got term, it sure makes sense, doesn't it? And he has term.

good that's a very good well i'm not throwing out i thought it was fascinating the least would be the experimental team to do it and i know dubas wants to see what this team can do if they suffer one more injury you literally just need a roster like let's say let's say okay so we were talking about life without just uh tyson berry let's say he gets hurt what what on god's Green Earth is your team. Dermot Hall is already your top pair. Sandean Lundgren is now your second pair. Rosen Marincin?

You got to do something, or you just tuck your season in. That might be fun. Very interesting. Oh, that would be more than fun. I love that idea. I like the idea of, and it wouldn't be some big defense, but it's going to be a depth move. Oh, yeah.

But it's still cool. No, it's a guy like... It's another Callie Rosen, probably. Like the guy who's on the trade board every single damn year, Michael Delzotto. Whoever is working at Sportsnet right now, just make the 2021 graphic. And Jimmy Vesey, too. He's always on it, and he never gets moved. Yeah, just...

There it is. Remember if the Leafs had signed Jimmy Vesey, William Nylander would have already been traded? That was a fun tweet. Oh, yeah. Bad takes last forever, guys. And I got plenty myself. Take it for me. I know.

I know. Oh, when the Oilers win the cup, I'm sure it's going to be a bad day for me. That would be great. I'd be happy for them if they won. Yeah. It's funny. I feel bad for the Oilers fans who listen to this show because they're like, ah, we like you. Yeah.

And I'm like, ah, most of you don't. I think what it is is that we were always going, we never went after the Oiler players. It was always the management. Right. We went hard on management because management was not competent at the time. And so did Oiler fans. You can't be assed for as long as you were and then go, ha! Right.

What happened all the time you were assed? Yeah. Well, in Delete, no, I'm well aware of how bad they are. Adam, when you were gone, Steve had a 20-minute rant on the Houston Astros and how much he loves the controversy that's happening. So I thought I'd update us. The Houston Astros played their fourth spring training game today. And their seventh batter has been hit.

So the opposing teams are just throwing out. They've been them seven times in four games. The seventh batter has been hit. I think Altuve got beaned like his first at bat. Yeah. Good. I'm sorry. Good.

Bregman was hit today. You're a cheater. Oh, Bregman can shut the fuck up. Yeah. Bean him too. Yeah. Bean him too. It's happening.

Did you see, Adam, the video? So good. This guy brought a, I can't remember exactly what it said. It was like a sign that said Astros with an asterisk. on it basically you know asterisk for the 2017 the staff at the ballpark confiscated the sign they stole a sign wow i did not see that you can't write this shit you can't write this i have never wished astros games are much watched i'm gonna watch the astros more than the blue jays yeah oh yeah oh the blue jays are exciting and if and if they don't bean someone on the

first pitch I'm gonna go boo and turn it off there was uh I was reading an article today and it said the uh the Astros scandal is the best marketing tool for the MLB in decades yes can you imagine okay what's like that's terrible I want to watch the first Astros game in Yankee Stadium and the first where wherever the Dodgers play uh I don't know if they visit them because they only visit one division and in the other league every year so I don't know if they visit the Dodgers. What are the hate power rankings for the Astros? I think Dodgers is number one because they sold

players. Yeah, Dodgers number one and then who? Yankees number two because they beat Yankees in the first round there. You're not going to be able to get through that game. There's going to be so many delays for shit thrown on the field. You're literally not going to be able to get through that game. And I think they play the Yankees.

Don't they play the Yankees? The Astros have an interesting schedule right off the top. Don't they play the Yankees, like, two different series in the first 13 games. Oh, that's good. I heard something about that. I'm just looking at the schedule here. Awesome. That might be a blessing in disguise

for the Astros. Get it out of your system. I don't think that's getting out of anyone's system. Nope. I think that's going to stick with them for a long time. And it sucks for all the guys that signed with them after that, because they're all getting booed too, and it's like, I wasn't even on the 2017 team. No, people know. No, they don't. They're booing them in spring

training. Oh, sorry. You're all going to get booed. But when Altuve goes to the plate, decibels. Just, oh, it's my favorite sports story right now. It's, I know we talk about hockey and everything, but if you wanted, I could just do an hour on how much I hate the Astros. The cheaters! The thing is, it's not even just the cheat to me. It's the pomposity and arrogance of their response, which is, you know, we just have to go out there and show everyone we kick ass.

Which is, the whole point is what you should have done in 2017. If you kicked so much ass, how come you needed all that? And I think beyond what's made this, to me, worse than the steroid thing is the steroid thing, everyone was in on it. And I know there's some degree of stealing signs when you do it. Like, you know, if you're signaling to your batter and you're on the second base, right? That's one thing. But you put in a system that no team had any defense for because they just didn't do it. And you did it not just against, like, Kershaw.

You did it against, like, double-A call-ups for the Jays. Yeah. Well, and remember we were talking on this podcast about you, Darvish, tipping pitches. And they're like, oh, well, he tipped a bunch of pitches. That was what the Astros said about you, Darvish, who's a great pitcher. Oh, and he's been talking shit, too, on Twitter. It's great. And I think that the thing is, the Astros are a good team, and they're going to do some damage this year.

We don't know. We don't know that. No, they are a good team. We don't know if they're a good team. They played good last year. They're a good team. They are. There's allegations they cheated last year.

Steve, objectively, the Astros are a very good baseball team. What if they cheated? Okay, it doesn't matter. Every team cheats. It's a matter of how much. The last three years are shenanigans. The point I'm trying to make here is that the Astros have this thing about them that they are still the Astros from the book, The Astros Way.

Remember that book came out, and it was about how the Astros built their system? And it was like quoting Jeff Lutho, who was the general manager until he was fired and suspended. um they had this whole book about the system it was like the next money ball baseball book wow galaxy brain sort of shit and the hilarious part about it is the only reason that that book even was published was was because a bunch of great players general general manager and and coaches cheated all of them it's insane to me that they have you gotta think think about the ego it takes to sit in front of an author and go well this is why i'm great and the entire time the entire time dirty cheater you're cheating like that and it's not you're cheating a little

bit like bill belichick cheats a little bit every season they get caught the patriots again got caught most athletes cheat a little bit the patriots again got caught with a video camera this year videotaping practice of a shitty new york team it was the giants they're shit they're terrible and yet and then and their patriots are still trying to cheat and that's fine whatever i guess it works for them but we're talking about every team every pitch every game and and i think that i think the best thing was and i forget who said this it wasn't just that they stole the world series you gotta remember al tuve stole the mvp from aaron judge too yeah and one of the craziest things is his home and away splits we talked about this wow but his home splits are just

miles ahead of his away splits which is just and he was my favorite evident that run al tuve was He's like my favorite player in baseball. Oh, yeah. How could you not love him? He's four foot two, and he can hit a baseball 10 miles. It's like if we found out Sidney Crosby has been cheating his entire career. If Sidney Crosby had been using steroids his entire career, I wouldn't even be as upset. No, not even steroids.

He has mechanical skates that skate around for him. Literally change the rules. Is what it would be. A magnetic puck. Right. Or like his stick is actually a little, it's a robot that hits the puck harder. You know? And my other favorite thing about this story is every day there's something new.

Every day. And there's just idiot quotes. You know what it was yesterday? What it was yesterday is, here's the thing. Here's the great thing. There's 162 games a season, plus the playoffs, and everyone is finding video. It's like 400, 500 games they're going through. And there was a playoff game against Kershaw.

I can't remember if it was 2019 or 17. I think it was 17. So when they were definitely cheating, proven. And Kershaw, we go, man, I can't perform in the playoffs. He threw 51 splitters. They didn't swing at a single one. Or was it sliders? I can't remember.

Whatever it is. It was 51 of a certain type of pitch. They didn't swing at a single solitary one of them. That's insane. Not what you didn't fuck up once. Like, let's say you're a brilliant baseball mind and you just, you outplayed Kershaw. You're Ted Williams. You're the best hitter in history.

You went 51 for 51. That's so absurd. I can't remember if we cheated in the finals. But I can't remember. Oh, my God. You flipped a coin and it landed on heads 51 times. Here, I got to look that one up. It's also underrated about.

I just haven't had the chance to talk about this. It's underrated. I wish you were here for that. Oh, man, me too. I was watching it on ESPN. I was in Barbados. I was watching it on ESPN going, I was dying. I was dying watching it because I knew you guys would be talking about it.

But one of the things that I think is just so underrated about this is it's not only exposed how crappy the Astros are, like mentally crap. It also exposes how weak baseball's leadership is. And, you know, you wonder. There's so many problems with baseball. It's slow. It's boring. You know, all of the criticisms about baseball are true, and I love baseball. But there's no reason that a Sox-Yankees game needs to go four hours.

It's just insanity. It's literally a dying sport in that the main demographic, the main watch demographic is males 55 years old. Right. So, before you get to what you're going to say. Which is funny, because Jay's games seem like young. Right. That's the crowd you're around in the stadium.

Right. I guess. I'm talking about national American numbers. We give Gary Bettman shit, but has Gary Bettman ever referred to the Stanley Cup as just a piece of metal? Rob. Talk about out of touch. If I'm an owner, and I'm going to the owner's meeting, you're gone.

Get out. Are you kidding me? And you need to. It's the commissioner's trophy. The World Series needs to be invalidated. It needs to be taken back. It needs to be nobody. I got a couple for you.

Okay, so here's what I was looking at. It's Tom Verducci. I don't know who that is. Tom Verducci. I know Tom Verducci. He had a clip. Former pitcher, isn't he? I know him as a baseball analyst.

There you go. So he had a clip on the 2017 World Series sham. The quote is, Kershaw threw 51 sliders and curveballs that day and got zero swings and misses. Tom Verducci is an American sports writer who writes for Sports Illustrated, not a former pitcher. Zero swings and misses. This one from a Twitter account, N8 underscore B. Kershaw had a 44% swing and miss rate on Slider in the 2017 regular season, 35% on curveballs, and 25% on changeup.

In Game 5 of the World Series, Kershaw threw 51 breaking balls. The Astros swung and missed on exactly zero. The odds of 51 consecutive are 0.00000000372. And if you're the Ashes, you're probably like, well, it can happen. And the tweet ends with, strip the title. We're just good at baseball. Strip the title. To go back to your point about Rob Manfred, no player was punished in any of this.

No. And then he goes and blames the MLBPA about that, by the way. Yeah. He said, well, in our negotiations with them to even do the investigation, none of the players. And I bet you the MLBPA did do that. But then they were like, oh, wait a second. We've got 29 other teams of players who are going to be pissed right now. who are going to be throwing balls at guys 95 miles an hour to punish them

because none of the players were punished. How about Aaron Judge with a bat? Well, let me throw this at you. The whole idea that Dusty Baker, who's now the manager, came out and said last week that it's bad for baseball, that Rod Manfred needs to sit down with all the other teams and say, you know, stop talking shit about the Astros. It's bad for baseball.

What about the kids? He had the gall and the gumption, and I love Dusty Baker. Respected baseball man And what else is he going to say? People are like, well, he's got to say that He's the manager No He's got to say nothing

Nothing These guys made their bed, lay in it And by the way, you shit all over your bed So you're laying in that Good for you And you're going to be laying in this the rest of your career This is the thing Look at Ryan Braun

He still, still gets booed every time he goes up to bat Everywhere he goes Even in Toronto He stole an MVP award Yes And then blamed a poor FedEx guy and got him fired for it Yeah, and was like, I'm going to have him over to dinner, and now we're friends. And you signed an insane contract, and you're wealthy beyond imagine.

This guy who makes 50 grand a year is like, yeah, yeah, I'm the guy that screwed up Ryan Braun's life. Right. Like, what a joke. And this is all going to stick. I love this shit. It's going to stick with them forever. There's so many angles that I wish I had been here for it, because it was one of those things. But we're doing it.

We did it. This is longer now, officially. I bet we did it longer. Oh, man. I just, it was one of those things. It's so infuriating. But the arrogance of the Astros continues to be the shocking part for me. And the out-of-touch nature of MLB's leadership is shocking.

Rob Manfred, you know, people are like, well, at least he stepped to the plate and apologized. No! If I go to your house and I take a plate out of your dishwasher and I smash it on the floor and go, you know what? I'm really sorry. Does that put the plate back together? Is the plate now good? Oh, we're good now because the plate works again. What if you called the plate just a chunk of metal?

Right. What if that play you really cared about that everybody works really hard for? Oh, your grandmother did this to you? Oh, I'm sorry. Hey, listen, it's just a little porcelain. Am I right? Because that's a little... What do you play for, Rob?

Why do you have your job, Rob? It's crazy to me. Yeah. Crazy to me. I don't understand how he's still a commissioner. Or how they're not doing something together. He's got to be gone. It's probably just cost too much to buy him out, to be honest.

Guys, it's February. There's so much time. They've played four spring training games. Guys, are we going full baseball this summer? Is that what's going to happen? No, we're going full Astros. Let's go to the rest of the league. We've become an Astros podcast, an Astros hate podcast.

We literally have a segment every show, what happened to the Astros this week. You know what? We might. Let's do it. Why not? I am into it. It'd be real easy. Dude, okay.

So, for the Blue Jays, tickets are, you know, compared to the Leafs and Raptors, they're not as expensive. Red Sox tickets. Understatement. Yeah. Red Sox tickets are very hard to come by. It's Fenway North. People love the Red Sox here, and you want to beat a rival.

Yankees tickets are extremely hard to come by. Are the Astros going to top that? I'll be at the first Astros game. I 100% am going to be at the first Astros game. Do you guys want to see it? Do you want to go? Yeah. Let's look it up.

Schedule's up. I'll look it up here. It's got to be up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going. We're going. Book it. Mark it down.

We're going. I'll book a babysitter. Let's do it. And I'll just I'll suddenly I'll go to the store that day and remember that I need a bunch of batteries Monday, May 18th

3.07 Central Time So it's an afternoon game in Toronto Monday afternoon, we can go to a Monday afternoon game Monday afternoon, May 18th And then we can go watch and it's Cavan Biggio Hit for the Cycle Bobblehead giveaway day

It is That's good, I love Now, that's home, right? Yeah, yeah, that's the home game. Amazing. Yo, man, I love an afternoon Monday game. That's great. There's a clip.

There's a clip. I literally didn't even need to search. I was just scrolling the timeline and saw this. From SNY TV, George Springer is showered in booze as he steps into the plate, tries to hit a ball far to silence the crowd, and falls to his knee. Guys, he swings himself out of his shoes. Like, I cannot wait to hate watch the Astros this year. Oh, this is the best.

So, I believe that 18th is, that's the long weekend. I believe that's why it's an early game. I think that's the May long weekend in Canada. And Victoria Day, which is great. Let's just go. The tickets are there. It's Victoria Day. You're going to get a bunch of.

Rowdy. That's one of the drunkest calendar days in Canada. Oh, it's the best. We're going. And we're booing. Okay, we're going. I do understand I'm going to drink nothing but coconut oil and not speak for three days leading up to that

so that my vocal cords are ready to... Oh, my God. Listen, we've got to wrap up the show. We've got to get out of here. But thank you so much for listening. We will be back on Sunday this week. Hopefully, the Leafs have a couple wins since then. Who knows what we're going to get, though.

Big bag of tricks. Whether they make the playoffs or not, I get to hate-watch the Astros. The Steve Dangle Podcast. Follow the guys on Twitter at Steve underscore Dangle at Adam W-Y-L-D-E and at Jesse Blake. Brought to you by Panago Pizza.

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