The Steve Dangle Podcast - The Shanaplan | May 23, 2023

Episode Date: May 23, 2023

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, 00:00 Brendan Shanahan details the timeline of Kyle Dubas' termination 1:32:30 You Can Bet that With Sports Interaction 1:37:30 The Florida Panthers can't stop winning hockey games Recorded: May 23, 2023 Visit https://sdpn.ca for merch and more. Any opinion expressed is not advice, a promise or suggestion that increases the chance of winning. Gambling can be addictive, please play responsibly. To learn more, visit: https://help.sportsinteraction.com/hc/en-us/articles/216779528-Responsible-Gaming-Self-Limitation-Self-Exclusion Or if you have concerns about a gambling problem, call ConnexOntario 1-866-531-2600. Ontario Only. Must be 19+ or older to play. Visit this episode's sponsors: https://shop.muskokabrewery.com/ https://sportsinteraction.com/sdpn Follow us on Twitter:@Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram:@SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Reach out to https://www.sdpn.ca/sales to connect with our sales team and discuss the opportunity to integrate your brand within our content! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Steve Dangle Podcast, powered by Sports Interaction. Want to bet? It's back at you. Woo! S-D-P-P. The Steve Dangle Podcast, with your hosts, Steve Dangle, Adam Wilde, and Jesse Blake. Let's go! I'm a hot guy.

I'm just wondering. A big-ass man. A guy with a handsome face. i'm i'm actually i was putting this show together and i was wondering where the hell to start and i think you know the way our last show ended we knew that um shanahan was gonna give a press conference at three o'clock the kyle dubas news broke in the show uh and then it was sort of like oh great now we're gonna get a long weekend press release news dump or whatever and we didn't get that we actually got shanahan yep and on my drive up to uh my wife's family cottage we listened to

it and my daughter was in the in the back going like daddy daddy i'm like mike everly i love you so much but you you gotta you gotta put a sock in it at the moment shanahan's talking darth vader's uncle brendan uncle brendan is talking and i i think uh what unfolded after that and i i'm listening to people who who do this for a living you know we look at press conferences we break them down steve's been to a few uh and i've been to i went to a dolly parton press conference once that's uh that's as close as i've been to a real press yeah have you met dolly parton i met and interviewed her afterwards have you shook her hand yes and she's amazing hilarious that's unreal how was her handshake uh strong strong but like not too strong didn't crush her fingers i believe you

yeah no she's awesome i had sweaty hands she didn't it was great uh but she's charming and amazing royal um does i wish that brendan could handle a press conference the way dolly parton could cannot uh but it doesn't mean that it was bad it was some of the most captivating sports drama i think any of us have ever seen and i'll tell you all the reporters down there in every single article that i read said i've never seen anything like this before in not so many words so i think we start from the beginning uh with the new face of the toronto maple leafs and whether or not you want this to be the case the new gm is not the face of the leafs uh the new the current or new coach you know whether it's key for somebody else will not be the face the players

are no longer the face success or failure brendan shanahan because of this press conference is the face of the franchise and he will be the one wearing this we're back to the shana plan you will you don't get to go on tv and say the things that he said rightly or wrongly whether you're team shanahan or team dubas or somewhere in the middle we'll talk about it um you don't get to do that and not be the face of this and i don't know he doesn't do many many media avails but he might have to start doing more because uh he's just put himself in a territory a la messiah jerry uh but without the success without the success or the trade leading up to it because And remember, Masai was under some heat, too, when the Raptors got LeBron-toed.

So let's get into it. Jesse, can you fire up the beginning of this press conference? We're not going to go through the whole thing, but I think it's important we hear Shani's timeline of events again. For a lot of us, it's been three or four days. Last offseason, I approached Kyle in his office at the Ford Performance Center and explained to him that he would be not receiving a contract offer prior to his final year of his contract. I tried to reassure him that it wasn't a reflection on his future with the club. I reminded him that it was a situation I found myself in a few years prior as well and

that it was my hope and it was my intention that at the end of the year and after being judged for the full five years of his contract that we would be extending him and moving forward. Kyle took it very well. I thought he was a pro. He addressed that in his opening season statements, that he was comfortable with that, and I thought that he had done an excellent job. I thought Kyle had a great offseason. We had some difficult choices to make.

If you're judging him on the work he did last summer, some of the decisions of letting players of signing some players. I think it's a challenging job for any general manager. And I think Kyle did an excellent job. We came into the season very well organized, many options. I thought the team, typical season of highs and lows, but had an excellent regular season. Going throughout the year, the way that the team was managed, I had no issue with that. As As a matter of fact, I thought that again, Kyle did an excellent job. The trade deadline, again, going back to his process and the way that our team does this here under his leadership, there's a lot of input and I thought that he made some very

good moves and I thought he had prepared the team to the best of his ability as any GM can do after the trade deadline, there's not as much for a GM to do. So it was important for me shortly after the trade deadline around the middle of March, I approached Kyle in his office at Ford Performance Center and told him that I had seen enough in my mind that I had wanted him to be our general manager going forward, but he should go home and take some time to think about it. And if he was comfortable with that idea, I would start talking to ownership about that. Kyle appreciated that.

We had a good relationship the whole year. That day was nothing different. He came back to me about a week later and said yes, that he was comfortable moving forward and he gave me the name of his agent or he said his agent would reach out to me, but that he didn't want this to be a distraction for him and I respected his wishes that I wasn't going to discuss it with him any further at that point. So fast forward to the end of the season, getting through the end of the regular season, the playoffs, I had many good conversations with Kyle's agent, felt we were making progress.

I wanted to be in a position, A, to respect Kyle's wishes and not discuss this with him as it was going along, but I knew his agent from time to time was giving him updates. That's really up to them. I don't know exactly what was going on there. um but I felt those conversations which were productive it put me in a position that when the season ended um or even if it was between rounds um because at a certain point I felt either if however round two ended even if we were moving on to round three that this was something that needed attention now and I felt that those conversations and the communications I got from

Kyle had put me in a position where I could come to him with something that was pretty much a finished deal that reflected what he wanted financially and what he wanted as a general manager, what was important to him. When the season did end, unfortunately, abruptly, it was very important to me that I was ready to go early. I expressed to Kyle that night that as disappointed as we all were, I thought he had done a good job. It's a tough time for the players. It's a tough time for management. It's a tough time for all of us. It's a tough time for Maple Leaf fans in those moments after a loss. But we had a day

off on Saturday. We communicated a little bit through text on Sunday. We had a team photo here. We went up to my office. I had another good conversation with Kyle. I presented him with what i thought was a framework that reflected what his agent and i had talked to and a good finishing so so i want you to really tune in here because this is where it starts to get interesting you've got shanahan saying i presented him with a con a contract and that he thought was along the lines of what kyle's agent uh and and shanee had talked about before okay this is really really where it gets to be important continue in place in the effort to to get this done as soon as possible um and kyle took it he seemed fine or he seemed uh

pleased to to receive that news so quickly we then talked about the hockey team for another a couple of hours and we went home and we knew the next day we were having exit physicals and media we talked a little bit about doing media I had expressed to him that I was it was not my intention to talk to the media until I had something settled with him I expressed that I thought it was maybe a good idea if he didn't either but Kyle said he really wanted to talk to the media and and and I respected that he he felt that he his players were speaking his coach was speaking and that he should as well and I respected his wishes so um the next day when you know and let me go back I would also say part of our conversation in my office was that this was

hard on his family in fairness we talked about that how quite frankly it's it's it's it's hard on all our families we it's it's a difficult thing it's hard on the players um the parents but it's it's the job we choose it's the sport we choose we're very fortunate to be in it but it it does not come without a toll on the families I completely acknowledge that and we talked a little bit about that the next day though I would say when after while watching Kyle's press I think at that point it there was a shift in in in my thinking at that moment a dramatical shift in my thinking as I drove home that night that as Kyle expressed he might not want to be our GM and I have to take that very seriously I as I had said to him the day before I I understood

those feelings and the pressure and the pressure that players are under the pressure that management coaches, family members are under. But it was a very real possibility for me at that point that I would be needing to look somewhere else. Okay, so let's hold there for a second. So let's recap for just a second, and then I'm going to let him finish. So what we find out is that Dubas is not going to be

signed to an extension last summer. He's comfortable with that. He goes through the year. Shani's happy with his moves in the summer. He's happy with the team he ices. He's happy with the trade deadline. and around the trade deadline, Shanahan goes to Dubas,

do you want to stick around? Dubas said yes. Then he's going to go to management and try to convince the board, which we found out with CJ last week on our show, that, you know, Rodgers and Bell

were not on board with this, allegedly. Larry Tannenbaum had wanted to extend them the entire time. Shanahan's job is then as the co-governor and president is to go to the board and say,

here's why I believe this person should stick around. Let's look at the entirety of his deal, not just this season. Although it did seem a lot like they were measuring it just on this season um and they get he gets the board approval and then negotiates with the agent present presents a contract and so all of that effort and all of that time leads up to the Leafs going this is the guy we want

and what you're about to hear is how over 72 hours an entire year's worth of decision making a very deliberately long timeline is undone so let's keep going he's done nothing he said nothing other than dubas has done a good job so far and it's as part of my job that is what i began to do while still hoping that kyle and i could come to some sort of a resolution what i would say then was in the next few days um i didn't get any more clarity Tuesday, Wednesday, Tuesday Kyle and I did not meet privately. On Wednesday we did meet privately and we discussed this again for a long time. I had probably more questions than answers and I did not have clarity.

It further made me feel that there's a strong possibility that rightfully anyone's right to do so, he might not want to be the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. So my focus then again continued toward the path of what do we look like next year with a different general manager. Thursday the next day Kyle had said that his agent was going to call me and that he would reach out to me as well I got a call in the afternoon from his agent and basically a new financial package was presented to me by the agent the conversation was brief I did not hear from Kyle throughout the day and I went

home and just before dinner time I got an email from Kyle saying that he did want to be the the general manager of the Maple Leafs. At that point I have to if I'm being honest I I was I had gotten to a different place about how I felt about the future of the Toronto Maple Leafs and what was best and as hard as it was and as hard as it is to make a significant change to somebody that you're close to and that you've been working with for nine years, I even though I was presented with well a gap had risen within the contract status and but nevertheless the email that I received from Kyle I just felt

differently and i felt that the long-term future of the maple leaves might have to change and slept on that so uh so then shanahan goes on to say that he went into kyle's office at the performance center and told him that they were going to go in a separate direction and which he named the ford performance center three separate times during that statement good day it's it's good brain which i found like was ford pressuring him to get reads in or was he he he very deliberately paints a picture here he wants you to envision everything that happened and he wants it ingrained in your mind and i think that's part of the reason so many people have taken this as 100 gospel the other reason is dubas hasn't said anything and right before the

show dubas released a statement that i still haven't read go ahead and read it okay you want me to read it and have you react are you gonna be able to react on the fly what do you think i'm gonna be able to okay go go so this is kyle dubas and his family have released a statement uh following his departure from the maple leafs i got this from sports nets uh instagram it's he posted himself oh well then yeah he tweeted it out from at kyle dubas it's not a sports net pretty good way to do it while i understand there is interest surrounding the circumstances of my departure i will not get into the specifics of what i consider to be reasonable and consistent but private discussions in the days that i felt i needed to assess and evaluate my own view to the

future both with respect to the necessary direction of the club and ensuring that i had the full support of my family for what i knew would be required in the off season and years to follow the organization as is their right to do decided to go in a different direction in the nine seasons since being afforded the opportunity to work in the national hockey league for the toronto maple leafs we have had the chance to learn a lot and have grown significantly through the ups and downs we have watched our family double in size while developing meaningful relationships which will last a lifetime it was an honor to be able to work in such an inspiring place with dedicated loyal people and an extremely passionate fan base the impact of that and the

relationships with all of the people at mlse from the board of directors through to the ushers at scotia bank arena will forever hold a dear place in our hearts to the players coaches and staff at the facility each day past and present thank you for your passion and commitment to every step of the journey together it was a tremendous pleasure to work alongside you each day we will roll from here the dubas family so the first obvious omission from that is brandon shanahan and ownership the person that well mlse is mentioned oh yeah that's true um the people at mlse they're not talking about he's not talking about the guys who signed the checks he's talking about the employees uh as he should he says the board of directors he does say it so yeah yeah yeah

adam's right i don't think and who am i supposed to interpret this being about well and this other than brendan yeah well and the one guy you didn't name i think that's what it's about though and i think that's what i want you to take away from this conversation when i started this off and i think steve and jesse know it in their heart of hearts brennan shanahan is now the face of the toronto maple leafs welcome to the new era welcome to uh welcome to whatever gm whatever coach whatever players are brought in shanee's the face of this and dubas was the face shanee started as the face then he got dubas to be the face you know lou was in there in the middle but this is this is for real now and this is shanahan's last chance he and this is where it's what's what's odd

to me and i'm sure it's odd to kyle dubas his last chance is going to be to fire and then fire everyone and hire all the replacements well it's a bit of a high stakes last chance i think i think it's funny and i think it's interesting and i want to start here cj pointed this out in his article uh for north star which is absolutely blistering by the way just an i've never seen Like, I love CJ's writing anyway. I'm biased, but I've never seen him write anything like this before. And what is it? You know, the Leafs are supposed to be, or at least they put off this air of we're a process driven organization. Everything we do is very deliberate. We stick to our process, whether the wind's going in our direction or it's not. what is it that makes someone change their mind after a plan in places plan is in place for a year and i'm speaking specifically about kyle dubas's press conference last monday where he said this was hard on his family and he'd had to think about it which shanahan then outlines

they'd had that conversation the day before hey it was hard on my family yeah me too you know it's just this is a demanding job no shit and he's not doing that for sympathy i think he's being honest about it both guys are being honest about it but what's interesting for me here is in one press conference kyle dubas was somehow unable or was somehow able to undo the decision decision making process that had been taken up a year in advance it had this had been going it was the guy for the job and then and they liked the job that he had done prior and then driving home that night and shanahan says this fucking toronto traffic ruins everything yeah maybe it's that imagine if he had a short commute he would he'd do this would still be gm right well that's what he gets

for friggin gardner if you live in the west end that's what you deal with the west end of toronto's traffic is horrible gardner wrecking the leafs yet again but he's saying sorry when he drove home that he changed his mind and i jesse steve guys if you have a decision that's a year in the making are you gonna let you're gonna let one press conference or 72 hours completely unravel it There are, you know, I think you've seen my video and I am largely against what Brandon Shanahan has done. I'm almost less against the idea of Dubas not being GM anymore and more just against the way Brandon Shanahan and everyone, basically everyone above Kyle Dubas has handled this. they thought this guy did a good job they said he did a good job uh and they thought he was the guy to carry them forward he had a bad press conference and i don't think in this maybe

unpopular with some i don't think kyle dubas is blameless here um nick kiprios had a very spirited rant about dubas you know used his family in the media i think that is harsh well he said it was as a negotiation tactic is what his words were i think that's very harsh um and i don't see it that way i have a hard time believing this fan base would go you know what gosh i feel so bad for him give him some more money like who is that benefiting maybe how would that work and do maybe he's maybe what what kipper is thinking is you know the absence of something makes it more valuable right so maybe kyle in in kipper's mind here and this is again it was right after the press conference right so you know you're going off of what he knows at that moment so i'm giving nick

that for sure where he's saying well i'm not going to go anywhere else but i may just not want to do this for a little bit kind of in in in certain circles people would see that as a way of jacking up your value i think that's his what but then he completely takes a negotiating ploy off the table for himself in that very same press conference by saying i don't have it in me to go anywhere else right so if if the goal was to jack up the price say yeah i could go anywhere is isn't that the ploy isn't that the move yeah there's 31 other teams that would be happy to have me now obviously So you can't get in front of the microphone and say that because the Leafs will say, all right, we'll go and find them. But he said in front of a microphone, there's lots of other teams.

Now he's, and I know we're going to get to this. He's been granted permission to speak to the Pittsburgh Penguins. He can do whatever he wants with his life. And who would turn down an excellent role with an excellent organization and an excellent ownership group. But if he takes that job, he's going to look foolish. you just told us you weren't going to go anywhere you didn't have it in yourself well as we've seen though over 72 hours things can change a lot of things can change but you specifically said and and you didn't you didn't like put a contingent on it it was just it i read it and i think most

people read it as i'm either going to be the gm of the leafs next year or i won't be a gm in the nhl for now for now uh so if he ends up going to the penguins or some other team after saying that yeah i think he's going to look a little foolish um i think brendan shanahan and the board were caught off guard by the fact dubas was even using an agent like because again and there's there's a reason i pointed out the ford performance center stuff i think brendan shanahan was very deliberate painting a picture and there are little breadcrumbs throughout um elliot friedman noted that rogers or the telecom brass do not like surprise last minute changes in contract well that's not no kidding i've worked for both of them they don't yeah tell me about it so

oh boy um so they don't like that brendan shanahan in that statement mentioned that dubas gave shanny his agent's name so i think the agent is a relatively new player now you've negotiated with agents and lawyers and stuff before what is brendan having these long conversations with kyle for and then the next day having a conversation a brief one and that was deliberate too saying it was brief brief means cold right so it was a new financial package and we had a brief brief conversation that sure makes it sound like here's my dollar amount take it or fuck off that's that's how shanahan has has framed it that's how shanahan again paints the the photo but then so you speak to dubas about all these things then you have a

brief conversation with the agent and then the next day dubas sends you an email saying that he still wants the job if that's how it happened that's sloppy on dubas's end your agent if they have a role in this if they're doing their job shouldn't they be the one sending that email my client is willing to blah blah blah blah yes normally that's what if you're the one who brought the agent into this conversation why are you the one sending that email that's sloppy and it's very strange from someone that's what would normally contracts all the time now the whole point of an agent if you've never had one before is so that the management group you work for hates your agent and not you honestly that's their job their job is to be ask alan uh his job is to negotiate on

behalf of the players so the players can focus on hockey and what focus on hockey means is they're not yelling and screaming on the phone and telling the general manager to fuck off when the offer's that's alan's job or or don mian or uh pat brisson or any of the people that that do that job notably has it have you do you know who kyle dubas's agent is isn't it a guy named chris armstrong yes so he and this has been going around uh his agents chris armstrong works at the agency wasserman which is a big agency and one of their clients is austin austin matthews and that sucks a lot that sucks a lot and it's cause for concern so those are some of the things that dubas has done that uh i didn't like in all this but here's what i would say um you know

he floats it out there that he might not want to be the gm which i don't believe is what he said it's just how shanahan interpreted it um it sounds like the agent rubbed shanahan and or the board the wrong way and it sounds like this all happened very quickly now they are operating on a very tight deadline but who created that deadline brendan and the and the board and the board. What I would say is adults should have been able to come to a resolution here based on the information Shanahan has given us. I think they should have been able to work something out because all you told me in that statement is you think he's done a good job. You thought he was the guy for the job and he slighted me. And so I fired him and people are talking about, oh, he wasn't

fired his contract six just expiring no no six and a half a dozen guys like this he was yeah he was summarily let go yeah he's if you're told to stop working six weeks before you're supposed to stop working you were fired however they want to call it uh not renewed however you want to guys we are not in court right now we're just talking as human beings he was fired um like does that is that not how you read it as well that the board and or brendan shanahan reacted very emotionally to how that press conference went and how that um and how that sequence of events in the days that follow went i want to hear what jesse has to say you guys outlined like the whole situation very well and i feel like the missing piece of the whole situation is why was kyle dubas's job

hanging it by a thread. Because the conclusions that we're drawing here is that it seems like a very rash decision. But the only reason you're making that rash decision is if you are not confident in Kyle Dubas and that his job was hanging in the balance and that any moment it could have gone sideways. That contract that they put in front of him for the extension, it wasn't concrete. It sounds like Brendan Shanahan and the board were looking for every single excuse to not re-sign Cal Dubas. They waited the year. Only Larry Tannenbaum wanted to do it. They waited until after the Florida series to offer the contract extension. Once they saw a little bit of shaky in that press conference, they pulled it right from him.

That's the missing puzzle piece to me. It seems like we have a giant jigsaw that's missing this one piece and that piece is what was the relationship with brendan shanahan and kyle dubas in so much that that contract that was in front of him could have been pulled at any moment you saw some resistance now there's also another very deliberate bit that i forgot about brendan shanahan referencing the fact that he also went through a full season without a contract for the next just because brendan was a good little boy and worked that year without a contract and went through the stresses of all that doesn't mean that everyone should have to go through that and everyone will handle it the same and those dudes do not have different jobs we went like a

calendar year without seeing brendan shanahan's face and it didn't matter you know what i mean kyle dubas uh is much more front facing the cameras on him during every game watching him throw water bottles or sorry recycle them expeditiously you know still making jokes with the media and and everything i mean the captain of this team is on this team because the islanders were like yeah we're not gonna sign him heading into this season and you know you can talk about you know john tavaris led them to believe this or led them to believe that you left yourself exposed but they they wanted to do that yes because they didn't want in the end they didn't want to bring back kyle dewis they were okay with leaving him

out there because there was a situation and it played out where they would be okay with losing him because of whatever that i think that's there's there's this missing piece in that we don't want to go all the way and talk about hey the interpersonal relationship with brendan shannon and kyle dubas wasn't great because we don't know how it played out but there's enough there's enough seeds there that we know that they didn't get along in some parts of of their tenure together over the course of this nine years yeah and when kyle dubas made the decision to try and we allegedly he tried to get a little bit more power with his new contract he tried to get a little bit more money he went rogue and did that press conference brendan shanahan just put his foot

down and said no go ahead no no i want you to go after you're done after you're done i'm gonna go why i want to support jesse's point you mentioned you mentioned that uh why was kyle dubas's job hanging by a string the reason that and you mentioned the conversation that chris armstrong and uh brandon shanahan how shanahan described it as brief new compensation package what's emerged since uh is and this is not totally surprising this was suspected on friday that there was a power play. And this is a corporate power play. This is one where Kyle Dubas came back and said, I need autonomy. I need autonomy to get the things done without running up the chain through Brendan. And so essentially what happened here is the agent crafted a proposal last minute

that not only said he's going to be the GM, but also some higher ranking position, Probably president or something like that. He'd be GM and president. And therefore, it would allow for, based on the organizational structure of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment in the Leafs division, it would allow for Kyle to go out and say he wants to call Doug Armstrong and make another trade for Ryan O'Reilly next year when Ryan O'Reilly signs in St. Louis. He would be able to do that without permission.

And it seems to me that the MLSC board, Larry, Bell, Rogers, and Brendan thought that they were throwing kyle dubas a bit of a lifeline not that they weren't happy with the job but they obviously weren't satisfied and they thought listen we're gonna give you a raise we're gonna give you some more years to get a crack at this but like you're on thinner ice and kyle's opinion is i'm not on thinner ice in fact i've done a very good job you told me i've done you told me i've done a good job. You're willing to extend me, but you need to up it. If you really want me to do this and really want me to take my process to the next level, then I can't be interfered with by the guy that's getting in the way that the intermediary between the board and the hockey

team, which is Brendan Shanahan. Now, Brendan Shanahan on Tuesday, I doubt very highly Brendan Shanahan made any sort of decision on Monday night in his drive home. I think what the nail in the coffin was here was kyle dubas's agent presenting them with a new compensation package because what happens if the board accepts that if the board accepts kyle dubas's new management structure by the way i'm not i'm not guessing at this this has been reported on if if if the board accepts that brendan shanahan essentially does not have a role outside of the business and then I saw a lot of people absolving him of any responsibility in this firing. And I thought that was such a bizarre way of thinking.

No, this is Kyle Duba saying, I want Brendan on the business side. I want me on the hockey side. That's what I want. And the board would then look at Brendan Shanahan eventually. And Brendan's not stupid. They would go. Hall of Fame player, by the way. They would three times Stanley Cup winner, I think.

Yeah. And I'm going to be cut out of hockey decision. Yeah. And they're going to look at him and go, Brendan, why are we paying you so much? when you just manage the business we can get anybody to manage business there's plenty of people with mbas and doctorates in business and they and they aren't former hockey players maybe they're running they're better at running a business the reason we hired you is because of your nhl experience your championship experience and your experience at nhl head

office you know if you don't know this um when the least we're looking for a president larry tannenbaum called gary bettman and said uh who should i hire and gary bettman said brandon shanahan that is how shanahan is here today and now shanahan is going to betman for new candidates yes and so i think to support jesse's point it was the new compensation package people are making this about money of course if you're going to be the president of the united or the united states president of the toronto maple leafs yeah you're going to want more money with that title but typical of a major corporation they'd love to give you the title just no money no i'm kidding uh they they would love to but they would love to keep him in the organization but shanny is not

going to let somebody take power away from him and so shanny's got to make a move there shanny's got to go hey listen if i take this to the board and they accept this then i am i am basically signing my own resignation eventually if so so he has to so he has to go well i actually you know it's it's the fan it's the conversation that he had with the press that's the thing that's the thing I don't want now listen you could be pro Dubas or anti Dubas you could say he needs different voices in the room with him whatever it is but what happened here was a corporate play and Dubas lost he did he did and I think uh like as as much as I don't like the way MLSC and Brandon Shanahan have handled this Dubas wears some of this um I also think that statement uh before I continue

that statement was the wrong move kyle statement yeah um he needed to make one and this is what i was saying uh because people kept saying well you know we only have shanahan side of the story we only have shanahan and therefore mlse side of the story well the only reason that was the only side of the story we had is dubas hadn't spoken yet and then he did speak and then it is his right to do so and i know he didn't want to air air it all out there but he's he just said you know we're keeping it private and i was under the impression these discussions were private now maybe it's not in his best interest professionally to air out all of his dirty laundry the the way brendan shanahan did but now that shanahan gave his side of the story

and it was airing dirty laundry and dubious released a statement and basically gave us nothing um i'm forced to simply believe what shanahan told us i don't i don't think you are no you're no no no no no let me finish well i think you're until people break news to the contrary like it's very convenient and i think it hurts brendan shanahan's words that he said all of those things and aired all that dirty laundry without mentioning what elliot friedman reported with the power structure and wanting to go to the board because the fact that you gave us all those details and you didn't give us the one that made you look like the bad guy sort of takes away everything you said or it at very least it weakens it certainly changes the

the potency of the story it changes how i view it but how many people are going to hear that report versus how many people have seen that press yeah that's the thing you're you're asking him to be transparent so that his his hand is all out there but he's playing the same corporate game that kyle dubas is playing like he played that press conference to paint this picture a very direct way and you're asking him to be honest you're like brendan stop be honest with him to be honest i'm just that's why people seem to be taking sides here and this is why i'm saying there's blame to go around what if there's no side to take because here's what i want to say both sides and i agree with cj completely on this both sides will regret this where is yes

Where is Kyle Dubas, and this is no disrespect to the Penguins, or I know the Flames are announcing their GM today, wherever he ends up next, and he'll get a job, and he'll be president and general manager, no question. Where else is he going to have the financial resources, the nine years to build this team deliberately, slowly, finding great people, bringing them into the fold, making sure your different teams work together? Where's Dubas going to get that? It's he's going to go to a market and he's going to have the issues that every new general manager has, which is you need to make a move and you need to make this team better immediately. When he came to Toronto, the expectation is that the Leafs were going to be ass and ass for like three years. And in fact, they ended up being better sooner than we thought. And and and so so those expectations are going to be completely different. You go to Pittsburgh, you got to win fucking now. And whatever they're missing, you better you better skin graft that onto the team.

right now because the core is there he's dealing with a core three in pittsburgh if he goes and and i the other thing is so so we got that where's kyle duba's gonna have that kind of lead up time that sort of highway that liftoff to to really be confident in all the team members that he has and get to know everybody and that sort of thing then you got maple leaf sports which has built this program and it's been quite successful with the exception of the playoffs all the way down echl team's been good ahl team's been good championship they have developed players despite i don't know why people are saying they haven't developed players they for sure develop players yes they have been bit of a lull and then you have a hockey player you know one of their first

round picks is cancer and and so they're but they've got players in the system that are coming in matthew nice was one of them yeah he's well drafted and i mean no one's gonna want to hear this but a lot of the players they've uh drafted and or developed they've traded uh and but they they got value value back trevor moore was a key piece in a key trade and that dude was a college free agent who played like a fourth line role in the minors leaves call him up he's actually competent so competent that the la kings want him and yes he's turned into a key piece for the kings but no there was no guarantees on that yeah there was no guarantees on that and also uh the leafs needed a goalie extremely badly and they got one who they used for two years so so then where is

maple leaf sports going to find a general manager to be able to step in make the kind of moves they have to make and let's go through that list very quickly uh resign austin matthews uh make a decision on what you're going to do in terms of what this team is going to look like um neil Nylander as well. And here's the thing. Now you're further hampered by what CJ broke yesterday on the CJ show. Brendan Shanahan. Oh, can we play that?

Yeah. Do you want to play it, Jess? This is really important because it's hamstrung. Any moves the new general manager would hope to make with a team. He's, by the way, stepping into a job with a bunch of people who are pro-Dubas. Everybody that's worked there, Dubas put there. Mm-hmm. which shanahan gave him autonomy to do yes and he let him go because of a few bad days

so this is where i wonder about and jesse's just pulling the clip here i wonder about how this benefits either side and i've spent my weekend wondering if if it's not a good idea that maybe this later this week they pick up the phone call and go maybe we really fuck this up but let's play this what's interesting to me is that brendan shanahan phoned each of the least top players last week to share the news about kyle dubas and that those players came away from those conversations believing that shell that brendan shanahan's intention is to bring the entire core four back now that's not written in stone and obviously we don't know the gm is maybe the new gm has a new has a different perspective on that but i do think it's interesting that as much as we focused on the

possibility for change maybe even the need for change that those players actually believe that that they're going to be back together at least at this point in time I was a little surprised by that I mean just just because there's been so much talk and obviously even Kyle Dubas had opened the door on his last Monday press conference saying that everything would be on the table if he was running the team uh well well Brendan Shanahan's the top voice in the hockey department and you know I don't know if he gave assurances or promises you know we might get into semantics here but certainly those players I don't think are bracing to be traded now even even as much speculation is out there it just seems that they believe the organization wants to move forward

with them as a core four so that that'll be something to watch so so now you're bringing in a general manager just to recap you're bringing in a general manager who's got to figure out dubious as people and figure out who of them are on side and willing to work with them too because remember that all plays a part of this too are they are they are they loyal to the leafs are they loyal to dubas and you have like half a cap to work with and now yeah and now you can't really trade the big guys because you know shanee's not going to approve it dubas was finally willing to move on from at least one of these guys maybe two and the day he said that was the day you were like you know what maybe he's not the gm for us so now like we're as we gather evidence as we hear more

reports from fridge from cj the less i just believe what shanahan said uh well you knew it was always going to be one-sided right you know if you're going to hear from one side of the equation it's one-sided yeah but there's there's like dubas was willing to move on from guys shanahan's not willing to do that so if the decision's already made for the new guy i'm wondering what incentive there is for the new guy to come on board what are they even going to do that's a lot of money i'm sure it's a lot of money but what what are they even going to do uh if the decision is made for them and this is why it's such a short-sighted position and this is why i thought there could have been some sort of resolution here so you know dubas and his agent

bring you the package at some point i would have hoped for like a line in the sand conversation where you at least say here's our line and we are not willing to go over it and dubas can do the same and if dubas walks fine if you draw your line in the sand and you walk fine it doesn't sound like that conversation happened it just sounded like you know what i'm done with this and he was let go and it's extremely short-sighted because it's now left them in a situation where like Brad Treliving is the top candidate, it sounds like. The Calgary Flames won't let him work the draft. By the way, Sports Interaction, Brad Treliving is the number one at 220 to one.

To me, a GM who is not able to work the next five, six weeks for the Toronto Maple Leafs is a non-option. That's a non-option. You can't hire that person because what are you talking about? We have the draft. We have a number of players to re-sign. and potentially trade. Marner's no move kicks in.

July 1st. Although he's not getting traded, the decision was made for you. Matthew's no trade kicks in. Although, you know, he's not getting traded, the decision was made for you. Nylander's no trade kicks in. Although he's not getting traded,

the decision was made for you. I'm just wondering what the job of the next GM even is if they can't work over the next month and a half and all the decisions have already been made. well and maybe you're seeing why kyle dubas submitted that last minute change no shit it sounds like kyle dubas would be he'd be fine with the outcome of this situation if sticking around was contingent on having autonomy and be in being moved above or at least on par with brendan shanahan and making the decisions for the organization because if he wanted that autonomy

and he didn't get it then he's perfectly fine with leaving the organization yeah so the the hey i wish kyle dubas stuck around is like kyle dubas didn't want to stick around because he wouldn't have had the decision making that he wanted so there was no place for him here which which brings me to and on and just on brendan's side if he wouldn't give up that decision making so there was kind of no resolution here if that was the only thing on the table both guys should say no to that i think there was a level of immaturity to both sides but where's the resolution if both guys want that a ton you have to give both guys would have to give a little you know the great the best they weren't willing to agreed agreed and and the best negotiations are ones where

both sides both sides walk away feeling a little bit like fuck i left something on the table i mean but we came to a resolution i think you know the best negotiations best compromises are you're not fully happy but you got some of what you wanted shanahan could have given a little yeah dubas could have given a little dubas asked for some things and the leafs could have told him no yeah and they could have come back yeah fire brendan you're dealing with a person in brendan shanahan who's not willing to lose the negotiation at all not willing to give anything up so it's it's that i do wish they negotiated with their players like that yeah that's the start and end with with shanahan this is how it all ended with a with with an agent which is a little too cute

I think that's unfortunate because I think you should be able to give and get in those situations. And if the power was the whole thing, it's a start and stop with Brendan Shanahan. And I don't agree with that at all. But that's his thinking in this situation. So there's there's sides being taken here. Brendan was in the right. Kyle was in the right or Kyle was in the wrong. Brendan was in the wrong.

And I think that clouds the bigger conversation of the Toronto Maple Leafs, the health, the state of the Toronto Maple Leafs is far less healthy than it was last week. They're in a really, really bad situation. They are. And they might come out of it fine, but signs are not pointing that way. And I don't think there's real sides to pick. like the picking sides is kind of it's like a fun game but we don't know everything that went on so you can't really pick the sides and also these are two guys who are playing corporate politics that's what's happening and there's no good or bad and there's no right side or wrong side

it's an unfortunate ending and this is what how it played out agreed and i i think i think you're you're nailing it jesse and i think the problem here is that neither side benefits from it no nobody is better off today for it so if you have two reasonable sides working towards a conclusion you will get there you will get there but we didn't have that here and and and i think and i'm sorry to cut you off there and i think this is where you know we're we're really going to see this is why shanahan is now the head of things this is why he's the face of things so when you are angry about the next gm's moves don't be you know who the gm really is but it's and with the plan i know when did he stop becoming the face of things well because he allowed for dubas to take

more of the the good and the bad his guy his guy who he brought in and i go back to what i said before this whole process started how does brendan shanahan have this bullet he shouldn't have this bullet this is this is your guy this is your guy everything about it and maybe maybe the reason he gets to spend the bullet is they're satisfied with the job he did so i ask again why isn't he the gm of the leafs today well i i wondered guys over the weekend and this is going to sound far-fetched and probably isn't going to happen but i think it's worth bringing up to me it's going to make sense someday in retrospect these guys this week should phone each other they should they should stop what they're doing and they should work this out and that's not really a proposal that's been

tabled but there is no way that either side is better off without each other so somebody dropped your ego pick up the phone and make it work you think he comes back i don't think either side comes back but that is the better resolution here all right you see you said like that's dubious is shanahan's guy but maybe dubious grew into somebody who's not his guy because he's not subservient because that's that's what that's what it sounds like it sounds like dubious is no longer doing the shana plan and he wanted even more power in the situation and i don't think so the whole thing that shanahan outlined is like we're very happy with dubious and like everything that went on like i don't believe a lot of those words i don't believe that you were so over the moon about

dubas's performance over the last nine years and since last offseason he's made every great move i don't believe that i believe you disagreed with a lot of his decision making he's no longer your guy so you got to get rid of him and bring in somebody who's your guy again and the the you know it's funny they brought in a young guy and i think the perception is young guys you know you can push around and boss around a little bit and then he grew into someone you can't boss around now they want a gm with experience and quote bite and yeah bite no so by the way that i saw that graphic going around i don't think friedman ever used the word bite he did he did he did yeah he said he's looking he didn't say it i have to listen to it again he said for his sources told

him that's they're looking for someone with bite yeah it was hockey dine can intermission second intermission did 32 thought segment he said bite so i i just ignore that word uh it was very funny they want an experienced gm right that's what everyone has said and to bite you and yeah and the iron big old chomp get you they i i think you know a gm with bite could or a gm with experience could be the sort of gm who is willing to get into fuck you matches with the president um and ownership um and maybe that's the sort of guy they need i highly doubt brandon shanahan right now is going i want to hire someone who's going to tell me to fuck myself i think he had that in kyle dubas i think he had that in kyle dubas so sometimes and i'm not trying to insult

anyone specifically um but i think sometimes these gms who get recycled and passed around the entire league these experienced gms have a track record of what success well no a lot of the candidates who are up for this job do not have a track record of success so what do they have a track record of i think it's a track record of obedience there was somebody in minnesota who you really loved who was general manager who just how the fuck is his name who just did what the owner said and then i believe he was in philadelphia and he just kind of did what the owner said all the time i had someone reach out to me that someone on the board um someone on the board actually brought up chuck fletcher's name and that to me indicates someone on the board doesn't

watch fucking hockey well are you surprised by that ridiculous the people that run the game don't watch the game no they're too busy they're billionaires they have other things to do if you're listening to this shut the fuck up forever never have an opinion on any hockey thing ever again go to the side and shut the find another job get coffee for the rest of the board you think chuck fletcher is the best guy for this job holy shit are you jim benning like if you look at the some of the names who are available it's a lot of guys who before they became available reed fired um we looked at their job the that they did and we're like are they able to do their job or are they just the yes man for ownership who ownership pushes around chuck fletcher

uh uh jim benning jim benning i almost said let me let me let me get the odds for you here and uh and uh i mean brad treliving left because he didn't he had that reputation he had that reputation i don't think calgary let him do a damn thing that he wanted to do where he left though he's he has no winning track record at all no he's at never made it out he's never made it out of the second round in his career i mean and really the only time they made it to the second round with that flames roster that was outrageously talented and so disappointing was against was last year against edmonton like like they were a one and done team one and done team one and done team if they made the playoffs so ignoring because some of these guys have a track record of success as

AGM and doesn't count general manager can you read some of the names well so true living's at a 220 never made it Brandon Pridham's an AGM but you're saying no uh no I'd uh well it's an internal hire it's different when it's see Shani Shani to me I think people are getting thrown off by what he said he said he's looking for he said an ideal candidate would have some general management experience right that's what he said I'm paraphrasing that to me doesn't mean that you were a general manager it means that you have worked as gm with your name be that assistant or or regular you've been on a trade call you've made a a proposition we need to get this guy you've done a negotiation which why which is why i think everybody's going well the list of

current like gms that are that are unemployed that would be good for this position is rather small yes do you really think the leafs are going to go no uh we're not going to look at anybody with an a next to their gm but we haven't heard the names like matthew darsh in the conversation we have you know we leave one and if if you're looking at the cast of agms people like that should be the guys you're interviewing and it's weird that we don't have the reports and the most reported names are these old guard general managers who are bergevin who by the way is a big name why is his name coming up mark hunter is nine to one on sports interaction mark hunter and i said this and a lot of the grumpies came out he doesn't have professional hockey experience oh he was a

player fucking when who are you talking about mark hunter and oh mark hunter 80s and 90s here let me look it up i want to see the last year because i know mark hunter was the head coach for one year of the saint john's maple leaves and that i believe was in the early 2000s mark hunter like i the balls for anyone to fucking say this to me hunter played seven games in the 92 93 season for the washington capitals that was his last year um in the nhl and he played 28 games with the baltimore slapjacks of the ahl that was his last professional hockey playing experience he has one year as a professional hockey coach the st john's maple leafs lost in the second round in 96 97 other than that he has two years as the director of player personnel with the leafs

followed by two years as the agm he's 60 years old and it's fine that he's 60 years old but generally speaking if you're going to hire an inexperienced guy you don't go with the older one this dude does not have professional hockey experience yeah look at the uh the championships he's won with london i wish i could properly express express my tongue doesn't work how little that fucking matters it's it's the ohl it's not the fucking same and then people go yeah well what about dubas dubas was hired to be the assistant gm under lou lamorello they developed the guy so he wasn't just thrown to the wolves they dress they got a hot prospect guy brought him in developed him and they liked him so much that he was with the organization for nine years

four of which i think he was the gm mark hunter could have stayed on board by the way but dubas got the job and he said i don't want this i'm gonna go back to my comfortable spot in london i don't think his name is high up on the list it's not high up on the list and it's being put out there and bergevin come on guys and stan bowman come on guys stan bowman i'm just completely disinterested in it's just not it's just not even gonna happen shouldn't be let back in the nhl like forget being the gm of one of the biggest franchises on planet earth yeah are we doing quenville do i have a moment yeah take it um i am completely not on board with uh joel quenville potentially being uh the head coach of the leafs um or even being reinstated um i know we posted

odds yesterday that you know he was the odds on favorite to be the new coach listen is he the best hockey coach available yeah maybe maybe um am i desperate for my team to win yep do i want him to be the head coach of my team absolutely not under no circumstances do i want him to be the coach of the toronto maple leafs because at the end of the day this is about fandom and cheering your team on and i can't cheer my team on if joel quenville is the head coach um this is the anniversary of the chicago blackhawks winning uh the western conference final over the san jose sharks which i believe is the day all the blackhawks brain trust including joel quenville were told about the accusations made against brad aldrich by kyle beach i don't know if kyle beach was named

um in that conversation stan bowman was part of that conversation and joel quenville got upset that that those allegations could disrupt the team and prevent them from winning a championship Do I think Joel Quenville is the only coach who would react that way and say those things? Absolutely not. Not a chance. But he's the one who did. But he's the one who did. Do I think Joel Quenville regrets behaving that way and acting that way and reacting that way?

Yeah, I do. I do think he genuinely regrets that. However, the next wrinkle that I think a lot of people forget about because we're so obsessed with that singular moment is he also after learning of these allegations gave brad aldrich a glowing written uh endorsement endorsement for his next job for his next job uh well and jobs going forward because i doubt he threw the letter away um when it's joel quinville uh stanley cup winning definitely going to the hockey hall of fame coach joel quinville gives you a letter of endorsement and brad aldrich used his stanley cup pedigree with the chicago blackhawks and

endorsements like that to go work at a high school and rape a minor that happened do i think joel quinville do i think people make mistakes absolutely do i think joel quinville regrets that deeply and sincerely i hope so and i bet he does do i want him on my team no i i i think people deserve second chances and i i i think you know there was the idea of it being presented as baggage uh by some in the media uh and like i mean sheldon keith had some baggage too right like he he had a checkered past um i can't get past this and you know should he be reinstated into the nhl it's it's not it's not even your call it's not my call but as a leafs fan do i want this guy to be the head coach of my hockey team absolutely the fuck not i don't like the

precedent that would be going on if he was reinstated for like fairly soon like this summer or something like that because it was october of 2021 that he didn't he wasn't fired he wasn't uh like taken out of his position because of what happened joel convo was allowed to resign after coaching his final game they let him coach that game knowing everything was happening and he got his final game and then he resigned and that was in october of 2021 and hasn't been two years yet and if the punishment for going through everything you just outlined is hey you get to resign on your own terms and then just sit out two years and then you're back that is an awful precedent to set within this league in this organization how could anybody respect the

institution if this is what your punishment is you get to go away on your own terms and just chill out for two years and then you're just back what and like what are you doing like i'm sure you're doing some thinking and repenting but really it's also just about the public forgetting yeah you took time off so the media narrative would kind of go away and then you could just rejoin your group of guys in hockey and and i think it's important that i read this specific quote because i talked about the endorsement so this is and this has been going around recently this is from frank saravalli uh from the report and i believe he's talking about the general block report joel quenville wrote an evaluation of brad aldrich on june 29th uh 2010 like this is mere

weeks after receiving these allegations uh after aldrich had already resigned from the organization in a june 2009 unsigned performance evaluation quenville wrote that brad did a great job to accommodate the coaches preparing for meetings and their everyday needs i believe going forward brad can be more efficient by being in a separate working environment and not in the middle uh constantly being disturbed in his last performance evaluation dated june 29th 2010 after aldrich had separated from the team but uh unsigned by quenville and aldrich quenville wrote aldrich did a great job for the coaching staff in preparing us for all of our meetings and coordinating several tasks that we uh forward his way brad has several people relying on him

at the same moment and has a way of deflecting and accommodating everyone at once congrats on winning the stanley cup exclamation mark when interviewed quenville stated that he did not recall whether he wrote the june 29 2010 evaluation of aldrich or if he knew whether aldrich uh had been separated at the time but did not dispute that he may have written the evaluation he further stated that the review looked to him like something he would write additional performance evaluations of coaches dated june 29th 2010 also unsigned by quenville were similarly written and contain the same language congratulating the employee on the stanley cup win i think i i think a team as image conscious as the toronto maple leafs are um first off they haven't made any phone

calls until today like that didn't start till today they have a head coach they do have a head coach so everybody that's worried about it kind of important to mention like yeah but you know it's an understandable question about like you know the new gm wants to bring in their coach totally understand we all know how this works but but i i do want to say that that uh um the fact is the toronto maple leafs are an image conscious organization there are a lot of organizations in the sport that are not remember uh who is the la kings defenseman that was banned from the league that yeah there were teams that wanted him i could tell you that the toronto maple leafs were not one of them specifically not because they didn't need right side defense

help because they fucking did but because they know that their fans would have an issue with it and everybody saw what happened with with boston and mitchell miller right everybody saw that if you think the response would be less than that with leafs nation and the hiring of either of those two guys you're out of your mind they know the leafs know listen they they maybe made a stupid decision with dubas or maybe they may ended up making a smart one but they're well aware of how the public and how the people in this town feel about that sort of thing and i i i would i would be absolutely gobsmacked if they even made the phone call i don't think the leafs are interested in that and and i i think that they already know and cj said it in their article they have knowingly

now plunged themselves into chaos and so now with the chaos they're gonna have to what what do you do with chaos you try to bring it back down into order right and creating more chaos would be doing that the safe choice is probably what they're going to go with safer and younger they're going to go with somebody who's got experience and i think they want a bit of a track record with a team that's won things not necessarily stanley cups but i don't believe for a second that they're just going to revert back i think that's a lot of media speculation i think that's uh website speculation i have not heard a single thing that leads me to believe personally that they've made a phone call to gary bettman about either of those two people and i know that gary and stan

are supposed to meet after the playoffs and and stan bowman interviewed for the calgary job right before conrad got it which means the flames interviewed stan bowman yeah yes yeah that's what that means no no so no no like what what the reason i'm posing it that way is i mean of course stan bowman wants that job of course he does but it's wild the flames would consider him yeah he was on the list and they talked to him about it and it's not that wild when you consider how the flames operate no but on the business side it's not that wild it's not surprising stan bowman and there's a reason i've talked about quenville more than bowman um i want to read more about uh what happened to remind myself of stan bowman's role

and all this because what i remember is the blackhawk spoke so glowingly of stan bowman on his way out that at the end of it i was almost like how are why are they even firing him like if if oh he helped so much with this and so much with that and we bless him for his role and all our cups and what he's done for this organization by the end of it i was like jesus just keep the guy what was the name of the president john mcdonough we we know for a fact they hated each other well and john mcdonough is the one who carries if there was a in those three or four guys that were in on those conversations john mcdonough is unquestionably the person that carries the most blame because he was the one that told them no don't go to the cops we'll

keep it internal i'll handle it that's what he did and so um you know i think it's important that that people do know that john mcdonough who is no longer in the game who's too old he's i think he's retired um that's the guy that first off everybody hated him everybody was fearful of him and in the organization and he's the guy that that ultimately made those decisions i'm not letting either the other people off the hook but i do i do think it's important that we understand that structure and i think there are teams that just plainly don't give a shit about their public perception and i appreciate the fact that you re under you know that you've you've brought the quinville stuff back to light 100 get that i don't think that was ever a consideration for

the toronto maple leafs not a fucking chance their brand is already even if you keep dubas this this there's a huge question mark next to the toronto maple leaf brand right now because frankly what are you gonna do to to get through i don't care that you're in the toughest division i don't care that you outplayed the panthers look at boston you and the carolina hurricanes by metrics all the metrics have outplayed the florida panthers and should have won their series they should be called the florida fuck metrics and and look at that the florida panthers are up 3-0 and by the way we will get to that series and i apologize to all the fans of those teams um well this is our first show after a long weekend where leaf's twitter was apoplectic

yeah and i i two hours so you know we we sort of did talk about this but i i think there's jonah siegel pointing out in his article to me this is what shanee's quote was on the general manager situation. There's an urgency to do that. I don't think it needs to be rushed. I want to really say I'm not going to be hasty. I want to be very thoughtful and thorough, but I do think it's a priority and it needs to happen rather soon. And I think this sort of backs up what Steve said about Bradtree Living. I'm really surprised that a guy like Bradtree Living would be involved in these sorts of discussions. Not because he's not good, but I didn't see a whole heck of a lot of huge success like he's he's drafted some good prospects um he did make some

good trades i do think everybody's like all that huberto contract sucks maybe it does but i do think uh there's a reason he fell from 120 to 65 points and i think that the flames are going to be much different because of the coach that he wasn't allowed to fire that's right like it but i don't think nothing to me says brad true living should be an nhl general manager for the toronto maple Leafs that's a promotion and I don't see how I don't see how in the court that's how you're supposed to look at it well and but also the core of the Leafs is objectively better than the current core of the Flames just skill for skill so don't tell me that he he would deserve a step up this is why a lot of people it's like wait a second here let's all calm down Shanahan's not even made

the first fucking phone call yet and and Chris said this perfectly on on the CJ show yesterday he he was saying listen that might be the odds on favorite right now but you never know after that first round of phone calls how things go maybe they say something in the meeting that that pisses brendan off maybe one of them goes you have to trade one of the core four and brendan goes fuck that we're not going to do that well that would take that person out of the lineup right so i think i think everybody bring it down on the on the speculation part because we don't even know who they're phoning we don't even know who's on the list we don't know who they're talking to By the way, the Leafs should never do a favor for another team ever again.

Absolutely not. Okay, so to my understanding, Tampa's jerseys used to be, it was black, silver, blue, and white, right? Some combination of that. The Lightning had to get permission from the Leafs to be blue and white. That's my understanding. Yes. And the Leafs went, yeah, sure. Which is so stupid.

The Leafs getting dinged for the practice facility stuff, the Leafs getting dinged for flying their own prospects overseas, and now Bradtree Living being held hostage by the Calgary Flames. If a team, if any one of the 31 other teams call up the Toronto Maple Leafs asking for anything, you fart into the phone and hang it up. Even the waiver wire pickups. Yeah. Oh, exactly. I would love the Leafs to leave a little bit of fuck with you room. like uh just leave a couple roster spots in some fuck with you room to claim guys off waivers well then you got the right guy in charge based on how this week went if you want a lot of fuck with you

then brendan shanahan you should you should be confident in the shadow plan well i guess because like because adam you talked about two reasonable people come to a reasonable decision in in negotiations well one side is unreasonable that we know of i don't know about kyle dubas because he hasn't talked but we know one side is acting unreasonable so you got the right person in charge steve should be very happy maybe who knows maybe he's the right guy for this league maybe dubas was a little too polite and too cordial and too willing to help people maybe it's a ruthless league full of frothing assholes and they need one of those i just don't get the impression bradshaw living that but the man who is going to be dictating what bradshaw living can do

can be that as as as as evidenced by this week maybe maybe he's the perfect match in that brendan shanahan will still be in charge but brad will be like ah you know what it's still better you know what i still have more power than i had in cal did your confidence in the future of the maple leafs drop because of what happened this week yes significantly significantly can i read something that summed up how i felt from down goes brown sure sure who by the way another person who's just on an absolute fucking heater again he's he's the whole orchestra playing as the titanic sinks just one last reminder of there's still beauty in the world the the title of the article is for the first time in a decade it feels like the old leafs and he said under brandon

shanahan that feeling of the old leafs went away until today least fans know the feeling i mean it's the sense that this team doesn't know what it's doing that they're a never-ending source of drama and not the good kind that they're a sideshow that nobody in charge has a firm hand on the wheel or any real plan the maple leafs wanted to take a season to decide on their path forward after almost a year sorry after most of a year they made their decision and then they changed their minds in four days based largely on one press conference i'm looking for a way that this story reflects well on this team i'm not finding it instead this feels the way the old leafs would do things rashly brandon shanahan by the way uh was around for the old leafs well he was arguably

the transition away from it and i have to give him credit for that yeah huge credit for that yeah and i think the era that downs down goes brown is talking about is like post lockout era from 04 through 2012 when they did not make the playoffs any of those years piece of shit yeah those were the real awful years yeah so apparently like not even rebuilding like just doing nothing oh we're second last oh we gave away our first pick fuck um fridge on 32 thoughts uh said uh one of the names uh that is making the rounds a lot right now is mark hunter that doesn't mean he's a candidate it means his agent or his pr person is dropping his name yes by the way non-option so you know how it works non-option and he said i think you're going to

hear the name mark bergevin i mean bergevin has at least he's a hockey resume he went to a cup final uh here's the thing with bergevin he win he absolutely fucking blows half of his trades uh but then the other half they were pretty good and and i would do not want mark bergevin running this bergevin on paper is a very good candidate to take over the toronto maple leafs so oh except for the fact that he sucks well so here before you get into that worth mentioning because a few people were alarmed at the fact that his name isn't lumped in with the other group there were two active people in nhl front offices who were supposedly oh yeah well they were in the blackhawks organization uh when what we just talked about with kyle beach happened shovel day off of the

jets was actually in the room and was absolved because apparently he had no power i'm wondering why he got a stanley cup ring um and then there's mark bergevin who was the director of player personnel i believe was his title and were to believe he just didn't know anything about it which i said at the time and i will reiterate i have an extraordinarily difficult time believing so that some people have the ick from him because of that other people have the ick because they just don't like some of the moves he did the coaches he hired the way he handled players i hated the suban trade it ended up working out pretty well for them didn't look like that at first you know but i didn't like the coaches that he hired how he treated players remember was uh

was uh what's his name the uh um uh he ended up coaching the pens as well terrian and like i think pa parentel the story is that he showed up to camp after having a really good year with montreal terrian's new coach and he goes i don't like the way you play hockey i want to change everything about your game cool and terrian was and habs fans you know this one of the worst coaches except for ducharme has got to be the worst coach the habs have ever had got to be the worst but but terry i don't like that guy no because he's and guess who made both hires mark this is why i don't like him well he he i want to say like what is it 18 months ago or so he resigned from the habs uh he left them in a great spot by the way they're doing great

uh actually thank god for the guys that they did bring in because they're making great moves now and uh but he was there from 2012 and it's it's funny though because we've had this conversation before about well you judge a gm based on how he left the team he left them a smoldering freaking ruin and like yeah they did have some pieces to build off of but like who's their goalie for example um not every young prospect you think is going to hit is going to hit i'm personally of the belief that the habs are going to be pretty good in short order um so maybe that will reflect well on him but remember it took two years of being unwatchable well i also want to throw this at you he left them with two boat anchor contracts that would have stunted their development had it

not been for career-ending injuries shay weber's contract and carrie price's contract what what where would the haves be today i look at i look at what sergey bobrovsky is doing right now and i don't believe the carrie price thing if carrie price was healthy he could be doing the exact same thing okay okay well he did it he did it three years ago right he did it okay on the other am i think yeah so the other guys that names name came up and this is from the cj show is doug armstrong and i'm not sure and cj wasn't either why doug armstrong's name is being put in here because um he first off former guest on agent provocateur i'm gonna throw that out there great interview he was awesome uh he's perfect around the press if you talk to st louis fans

doug armstrong says a whole boatload of nothing which is why they were so surprised when he was on ap and he just talked for an hour um but doug armstrong has the experience he has a recent cup i think that matters 2019 uh and he's doing a real quick turnaround on those st louis blues man they're going to be a power again in like a year or it might even be next season i'm a fan of what they're doing um but he's the st louis blues general manager and why would st louis three years why would st louis give him permission to speak to the leafs it made no sense now i don't understand where it came from and why people thought that it was could happen if he has three years left on his deal i wonder if where there's smoke there's fire though because brian burke

was the rumored like this is the next gm of the toronto maple leafs and do you remember the big problem with that he was gm of the calgary flames no he was gm of the anaheim ducks oh and i'm ducks my bad and he this is uh i'll take a sidebar for a little story that's in the book um this is when i almost got fired from my internship as there was a a tv on in the bullpen the old bullpen where all the interns cut clips and the producers made calls for their shows and brian burke was on the tv and someone jokingly said to me oh look brian burke just resigned and i went what oh my god that's amazing and i ran to the studio because i was going to get a coffee order anyway and i told them look up at the tv uh brian burke is on and i think the guest they had lined up with steve

eiserman i'm pretty sure and they were gonna hang up on him so that they could talk about the breakthroughs of brian burke resigning wow and i told them that instead of going straight to get the coffee i went back into the bullpen just by chance and i said um oh i just told them and everyone in the room goes you told who what what are you talking about and i go i told them that brian burke resigned and they go you fucking idiot like and like they start buzzing everyone and i ran down the hall and i told them because they were messing with me because they knew i was a huge leaf fan but the what the press conference actually was was brian burke holding a press conference to be like i am not leaving the ducks shortly after he left the ducks and then he joined

the leafs so yeah doug armstrong is under contract doesn't mean he always will be right simply saying listen i don't happen before i don't think he's going to be gm of the leafs i don't but it has happened before yes okay well all this is to say that the real conversations sort of started this weekend and right now they're set they're lining up schedules and talking to people and i wonder too with the current makeup of the organization how much of this is going to leak because a lot of it didn't leak before but i we know from spezza immediately resigning uh talked about having he immediately resigned when dubas was gone those guys are so going to ottawa um it by the way i had some dms this weekend uh people uh saying that one of the

only topics or the only topic that kyle dubas follows is senators on twitter now i think he clean that out he grew up a sense fan now the one thing i will say is i think the sends and dubas are a great match uh based on what i've heard they're gonna have to up the salary of what the gm of the auto senators makes oh yeah i'm pretty sure he might be 32 also pure uh their general manager must be like what the fuck man yeah hey i'm here i'm still here and i've put up with bullshit years of bullshit i had to put up with pierre mcguire yeah we're on the up yeah i just got out from under pierre mcguire phrasing new dog's gonna buy us and snoop dog's gonna buy i have i want to work for snoop dog get this kyle dubas nonsense out of there yeah poor pierre dorian

um uh so yeah i i here's what i want to say too and i said this on friday and i think it's important uh steve how did you how did you describe leaf's twitter this weekend what would be apoplectic and then there was another one feral feral i think that you don't have to like the way this went because i certainly don't uh you also don't have to take sides either uh because we don't know the whole story uh you can root for dubas and root for the leafs you can even root for shanee and if you're a leaf fan you're rooting for shanee to make the right choices you don't have to like what he did but you you do have to root for him to make the right choices don't you and i'm rooting for that and as my therapist likes to tell me um just because your brain goes to the

worst case scenario does not mean the worst case scenario is actually about to happen no and as leaf fans you cannot be faulted for feeling like holy fuck here we are again you can't be faulted for that nobody nobody from the leafs organization nobody from another fan group not even other leaf fans can fault you for it truly fault you if they're being honest for going oh fuck but you got to allow for this process to take place you can react however you want to react this could end up being good it could be good for kyle it could be good for brendan and it could be good for you now everybody else that's freaking out about austin matthews and signing the extension guys way too early i don't even think they can sign them until july 1st anyway i yeah and that

the supposed text message well he may not want to sign if that came from his agent judd moldover moldover if that was the source on that and i don't know that it was um of course his agent is going to say well he's not sure if he's going to sign because the the the signature is going to come when the dollar amount meets the expectation also so what agent's going to go yep he'll absolutely sign with the Leafs for sure just just make him an offer put whatever number down you want another Wasserman uh agent recently said yeah we're not sure it cost the guy his job but the other guy wasn't Austin yeah I think there was some confusion because people are talking like Elliot Friedman doesn't know that Matthews can't sign a contract before July 1st I think he

knows fellas um it's but we all know how this works there is tampering quote-unquote although he's your own guy i think there was an assumption that a framework would be in place by july 1st and now it sounds like there won't be unless there is a number on it come on and i i also want to say this in the least organization kyle dubas tried to pull a power move that's pretty clear kyle dubas hasn't won anything whether that's his fault or the player's fault or the analytics fault or the or the or the punch to the face fault or the ref's fault whatever you however you want to fault this kyle dubas hasn't won anything so kyle dubas tried but ultimately found out that he did not have the type of leverage you need to have to change the organization

structure austin matthews on the other hand has far more leverage because he knows as you do that he's probably the best leap there's ever been so he'll sign when the number's right so anything you here otherwise he wants the team to win and he wants to have a chance at the cup and he wants the number to be right so you just said this could all work out this could all work i'm going to return to a question i asked what's your confidence in it all working out well it's low because i'm a leaf fan but things have done pretty well under brendan shanahan wouldn't you say things have only really gotten better under brendan shanahan wouldn't you say i think the argument that kyle lubas hasn't won anything applies to the guy above him as well they've created one of the

single most difficult teams to evaluate in all of sports that's how do you evaluate a team that is elite every regular season and shit the second the playoffs begin not shit shit the second a game that matters happens games one through five and sometimes even six they're great tampa that tampa series goes to seven you think they win probably not probably not it would have been at home too again oh no oh no no like they're they're the single most difficult team to evaluate uh like yeah they're gonna take a like next season when they take a regular season step backwards i'm gonna be like yeah doesn't matter apparently the recipe for success is uh make the playoffs because Pittsburgh fucked a random Blackhawks game.

Oh, Pittsburgh. Dude. They're the biggest loser in this whole thing. The Panthers shouldn't even be in the playoffs. And now here they are wrecking shop. But I guess we'll save that. No, no, we can keep going to it right now. You don't want to talk to David Bastel?

Oh, yeah. We got to talk to Dave. 90 minutes in. Our head coaching odds, our GM odds. I'm glad I mentioned them before. Let's talk to Dave. and then let's talk about how Alex Lyon was starting the playoffs for the Florida Panthers.

You can bet that with David Bastille. Brought to you by Sports Interaction. Get in the action and make a play. 19 plus. Please play responsibly. Okay, so we got this a little bit in at the beginning of the show, but I do want to revisit it because the Leafs head coach and general manager are both available for a nice little prop bet at Sports Interaction on the app and on the website.

And Dave, the list is, you guys put a big list together, Dave. I was going to say, and it keeps on growing, Adam. You know, I think it's every single available coach past and present since the early 1990s. And exclusively here now, I will tell you this, we've added another member of this list, steve dangle 201 to 1 at sports interaction come get some 201 to that's it yeah that's it

dave what the hell yeah dave adam and i are sitting here as great candidates as well i hear you i should at least be added to the gm conversation don't you feel come on now now so steve's on the head like making a donation to sports now all of this is we don't even know if sheldon keep is going to be let go so this is the coach that immediately goes after sheldon keep whether it's now or it's later okay so so the thought process is and you guys have talked about this is new general manager comes in new general manager wants dot dot dot his coach right exactly you know it makes sense and i okay it is speculation but yeah it's exactly it there is a there's a situation where sheldon keep very well could be coaching this team come uh october what

is it going to be 10th uh but chances are likely that there will be a new head coach so tell us who it's going to be uh and as you guys mentioned that list is uh thorough to say the least i was i was laughing with someone about the list uh we were talking about some of the unrealistic things on it and i'm like well is it any more unrealistic than the leafs hiring an 87 year old don cherry and then i looked it up and he's actually 89 i don't think he's gonna be i'm not i'm not putting two dollars steve on that uh uh the the other thing no no no no we got there is who will be the next gm and the first three are the three that we sort of mentioned on the show uh last week tree living brandon pridham and eric tolsky uh what is hilarious is you threw on guys like

mike keenan eric lindross and doug gilmore just because you never know right you never know it could be a former player apparently a lot of phone calls are being made today uh i would uh i don't know like true living seems like the sure thing so i might take the coward's bet there too here's what i don't understand and we i know we talked about this earlier but like this guy is the he's just the candidate because just because he's there because he's a warm body who has gm experience yeah correct i would and i also i also am hearing that the tree living tannenbaum friendship is very mighty i'm just saying it would make jim jim true living obviously one of the guys yes so he would yeah okay i was gonna say all of a sudden all of a sudden scotia bank place is called

boston pizza experience um okay maybe not i like hayley wickenheiser at 30 to 1 though she's the agm special assistant the agm already so i mean you could do worse yeah she's already with the organization yeah anyway you check them out right now uh sports interaction.com stp and dave thanks so much for joining us as always thanks guys if you want a perfect beer in an obnoxiously large can that's independently owned skoka brewery tread lightly might be for you it's the new 568 milliliter tall can offering more liquid at great value so you can stay seated seated on the couch and watch the eastern and western conference finals i would say steven on the couch steven on the couch uh chicken wings fries juicy burgers that's that's what they say to pair this stuff

with obviously over the long weekend uh maddie gave it a shot maddie how was it really good do i get to talk about my favorite part of the beer i'm sure the percentage four percent the perfect percentage for beer it is it is and it's also available in two fours and six packs at your favorite beer sizes you can buy it at the grocery store you can buy it at the beer store uh and you can buy it at the lcbo grab muskoka brewery it's independently owned and operated in the heart of Muskoka employing a team of 120 strong, a true Canadian crafted beer tap room located in brace bridge off of highway 11 and one 18 fresh beer on tap to go and tours available along with live

music on the weekends in the summer. It's a beautiful patio. You should go check it out. Steve, or you already did. Well, I did. And enough of your read.

Listen, you ever try a light beer and it just tastes like yellow water. This doesn't taste like happiness and greatness. There you go. Check it out at your local beer store. I'm going to give you some stat lines. Are you ready? Three games played.

One win. Two losses. 92 saves. Nine goals against. A 3.26 goals against average. And a save percentage of 902. Who am I speaking about? I think it's Alex Lyon.

Remember at one point, the Florida Panthers were down and had to change their starting goaltender to their much maligned questionable 10 million dollar backup dude the and he's the backup because spencer knight is out yes sergey bobrovsky i think entered the playoffs as the third best goalie in the panthers organization he was 24 and 20 in the regular season he had a 901 save percentage and a 301 goals against average in the playoffs he has as many losses as alex lion did the panthers second most recent loss was to boston right in the first round game four now this is the good news hurricanes fans the panthers are unbeatable except they've lost both

game fours they lost to boston and toronto so this is going five at very least he is 10 and in the playoffs he has made 465 saves 215 goals against average a 935 save percentage his regular season save percentage is 901 his regular season goals against average 307 and he was 24 and 20 and 50 games for the florida panthers this year 901 this year is like bang average on the low side of bang average this guy is going to win the con smith easily he may win the con smith and even if florida loses yeah this could be a john sebastian jaguar situation although if if you're if you're bored go look up what jaguar did in that run in 2003 where they lost the cup but he won the con smith they they swept minnesota he almost shut them out the entire series

the first goal they scored on him was in game four he was crazy i'm not making that up uh that's that's crazy he went 15 and 6 one game one win shy of the cup a 162 goals against average a 945 save percentage five shutouts 945 with five shutouts that's stupid absolutely stupid it might be what it's probably the best i mean do you is there a better goaltending performance all time not just loss um bobrovsky has been unbelievable and there's a lot of people leaf fans included who are like hey wait a second we did get goalie so you know what's funny is uh i don't know what changes the bruins are going to make but it sounds like they're due for a retool of sorts right the leafs just fired their gm the hurricanes are almost for sure gonna lose their agm

eric tolsky and as a friend of mine likes to say agms do all the work so maybe it's even worse than losing your gm the panthers are not just wrecking shop on way to the stanley cup final which they haven't earned yet they still gotta win that fourth game but they're wrecking shop on way to the Stanley Cup final. And they're like ruining every franchise they play. Along the way. They're making everybody question everything.

Reminds me of the 2011 Bruins. I said the Panthers were going to truck the Hurricanes and I said in six. I said in six just because I felt stupid betting hard against the Hurricanes. Well, how could you?

They're a great team. This Panthers team is insane. And you know what's hilarious is that Carolina took five penalties throughout the game. Last night's game. Panthers took two.

And then the third one happened two minutes for roughing after the game expired. Which is... Why are you even calling it? It's not a thing. And they didn't call the Goss's Bear penalty.

I've been waiting for that, Steve. Where's your rant? Where's your Edmonton Oilers were jobbed for the Carolina Hurricanes rant? How many times can you do that rant? there was a there was a clear penalty at the end of regulation and it wasn't called because that's how the game works these days and it's a shame that this is the national hockey league and people

try to gotcha me uh where were you when uh tj brody high stick brandon hagel at the end of i think that was game six i said at the time and i'm saying now they got away with one they should have called it the tampa bay lightning should have began the overtime of game six uh with a power play in the same way that the leafs should have began overtime of game five against the panthers with the power play they're just letting everything go and what i said last night and i can't believe the pushback i got is the things that happen on the ice need to matter they don't like what do you mean they don't they don't need to or you're saying they know they they don't currently and everybody kind of knows that the things that happen on the ice don't matter and so far the

number one argument against that appears to be where so i think i might be right here um and listen don't just talk to leaf fans there are lots of people i talk to who are in the sport who hate the leafs who are stunned by how little anybody likes the product the one other dorky thing that i've seen out there is uh uh if the panthers make it to the cup final it'll be the fourth straight year that a florida team is in the cup final and and the big hockey markets must hate that i don't care about your hockey team i'm upset that my hockey team is not in the stanley cup final but i'm not like oh oh i hope the team from raleigh gets in instead oh right what i don't give a shit dude i don't once the once the leafs get eliminated like fucking whoever can win

i'm just there for the entertainment yeah yeah that point it's the same thing with cheering for a canadian team like fuck that that's not i'm not all of a sudden rooting for the canucks because they're in the playoffs and the leafs are out that doesn't make sense if i had one criticism of the florida panthers uh because you know the calls going one way or another the panthers have nothing to do with that that's it's the officials and the league choosing to not make calls with with the with the panthers getting the calls it's like the panthers are better at this than you oh yeah like all these you can't you can't complain about the panthers getting away with stuff because they're they've just been the better team in every situation and it's been fantastic to

watch and it whether they know how to play the system better or they're just more physical in the playoffs which you can get away with they're just better the one criticism i have uh and it's not an actual criticism it's just i wish it were different is they're too dominant like now that i have time to just sit back and you know watch hockey and whoever wins wins i mean geez you guys are rushing a little bit don't you or don't you think like they're just they're just mangling the competition um same with vegas actually are they up two nothing or two nothing okay yeah yeah tonight might be if Aiden Hill keeps uh playing like Sergey Bobrovsky the series could be a quick one well so yeah the only thing I would say is like geez I like when

it's a little close so right now I know they won two games in overtime but in in the NBA right now the Lakers just got swept by the Denver Nuggets four nothing the Miami Heat are up on the Boston Bruins three nothing Celtics that's Boston Boston Celtics three nothing in the NHL the Florida panthers are currently up three nothing in their series and then the other side vegas is up two nothing it is awful semi-finals in the playoffs right now and tv's just been a waste well yeah and like it's it's teams that well at very least from a canadian perspective like no one's jacked about this final four at all so revenues were already going to be low and it's going by fast yeah like if both vegas and florida sweep their series are they gonna start the cup final sooner

they have a specific date the earliest it can start so it'll be on that date i don't know what i don't have offhand right now said it on our show and i can't remember yeah yeah there's a date that's like this is the first day that stanley cups and starts it'll be that day so there'll be a little bit time off in between but uh carolina's played well this whole series they've been in it it's so many the couple overtime games like that can go any bounce but florida just always finds a way to pull it out and they've just had that little edge like it's not away man i don't like the comparisons with the leafs and carolina in terms of how they've played florida because carolina didn't have that game three that the leafs had yep it's not we're not

it's not the same it's apples and oranges here in terms of their competitiveness versus florida and just so we're not all high and mighty and giving them the stanley cup all of a sudden because vegas and dallas are in the west and they do they do look really good um the sergey bobrovsky uh mr van breeze van beersbrook comparisons are completely fair because how did that playoff run end van beesbrook oh is he the goalie john john van fees brook van beesbrook uh led the florida panthers to the uh stanley cup finals 96 96 immaculate season he had a 932 over the course of those games wow unreal run with his weird little mask ended with a four-game sweep at the hands of the colorado avalanche it sure did and a bunch of rats i feel like the

toy rats that they throw on the ice are smaller than they used to be they used to be these big 30 pound bastards and goalies would like hide in their net to avoid getting hit by them and patrick was big tough guy moment because he's so weird um was to just stand in his net and let rats pelt him what i want to know is is there a florida panthers fan forum featuring one or several people claiming to be the person who threw the rat that hit wa on the head that's what i want to know yeah someone out there is like i did that yep it was my rat that hit him if you don't know what i'm talking about look it up look up patrick wah rats that should be the only thing that you have to say i'm curious to find out if this run is going to be the 2012 kings or if that's going

to be the 2020 montreal canadians i want to play this clip for you uh rod brendamore after uh the loss uh because i love rod brindamore's honesty he almost seemed happy well i think he's got to at least be happy with how the team's played like you like how do you how could you not be i get like as a coach i think you're just like did i do my job and if you're rod brindamore you did your job probably ought to feel like you did have a listen that's been well it's been three games. I mean, we can't do much more. I mean, we like how we're playing, clearly. It's just

we've got to find a way to put one in. I mean, defensively, we're giving up nothing, you know, really. In three games you would have said to me you've got one of the highest potent offenses you're playing and you give them 20 shots

a night, I mean, you'd be pretty happy with. It's just we're creating offense. I think we hit I don't know, felt like we hit couple posts tonight let me two or three and we're just you know it's there for us it's just we gotta we gotta find a way to put it in didn't like i think we had one power play maybe tonight one or two one that's kind of strange in a game that we're dominating like that but but we didn't do anything with it you know that was bad and then they had a couple power plays in a row there we

did a decent job and then obviously that's the difference in the game right there one i think went off slab will stick too which that's just the way things are going with for us this series it's kind of you know we got to find a way to just break through and give ourselves a chance maybe to get back in this but you know it's tough like you said because we have you know played really well here here's the difference i think is there's reason to believe if you replayed those three games carolina could also be up three nothing sure of course or it could be two one one two whatever if you replay the first three games of the leafs panther series i think best case scenario it's two one cats i think carolina's got a lot to be happy about with their play like

as he said all you can do is coach and then the players just kind of see how the puck bounces and they've done a terrific job in the series and that just hasn't gone their way and that's to the credit of the florida panthers and their relentlessness and the unbelievable goaltending they're getting from Bobrovsky yeah am I misreading the discourse or are there some people who think that the Panthers prolific nature in these playoffs is all their goalie so it doesn't count no no I don't think there's well no is it no one's making Carolina's getting goalied and the Leafs are getting goal no there's there's people trying to make excuses for the Leafs based on how dominant florida has been with carolina teams have goalies yeah and also like i think

we got a good view of this this season with the amount of goalies who the leafs had to use and their different styles and uh you know goalies make your team look good they make coaches look good but i think uh defenses that match their goalie um like i i mean defenses can really set up their goalies for success and you know is is is bob extremely good is bob going above and beyond in terms of helping his team to win yeah but how many miracles is he pulling off i guess is what i'm asking right he's not the only reason for their success is all i'm saying and i think when people just go ah goalies and they throw up their arms i think that's really weird they're allowed goalies are allowed to go off and it doesn't mean that your information doesn't count

but it also doesn't mean right off the florida panthers there i promise you if the panthers win the cup they're going to hand out more than one ring on the other side i heard uh friedman elliott bring up sean burke in uh in vegas and the jobs he's doing oh there there's a great there's a awful situation with a great goalie coach who's able with along with bruce Cassidy in the system they got there to get the most out of their goalies and you had during the regular season Laurent Brassois Aiden Hill uh Patera Thompson and Quick all goaltenders who started throughout the year for the Vegas Golden Knights all above a safe percentage of 900 because of the great system that they run there in their defense and Sean Brooke who's their goalie coach

doing a great job and Aiden Hills just stepped in for Brassois and hasn't missed a beat and has arguably been better well and both of them stepped in for Logan Thompson yeah I thought logan like this team without logan thompson would be cooked a few months ago i don't think that now i think the point is that goalies are a part of your team and you're allowed to develop and have a great system that can support your goalie and also have a good goaltender and you can win that way and that's allowed well other players are allowed to step their game up yeah you're also allowed to fluke your way like let's be honest uh uh sometimes you have a goalie that gets hot and and he feels great and he feels great and he's and and not fluke i guess i guess that's

the wrong word but i we have seen this before in the playoffs we mentioned jaguar we mentioned the kings we meant and the kings by the way proved it wasn't a fluke and won it again a couple years later ducks couldn't score like yeah yeah it was just jaguar would close the door until someone found it you know how many overtimes you need tonight boys three all right keith carney up the up the boards to leclaire don't take this away thomas yeah don't take this away from the panthers i think this is these stories are the ones that we this is why the playoffs are special because something completely unexpected happens every freaking year every year this is exciting you should enjoy it and i think vegas by the way uh vegas being up 2-0 should not

go unnoticed as well man like that that that team is man jesse you so nailed it like in the first round it's like they're sort of mid at everything and yet they're great all together that makes them great being just decent at every single aspect of the game as has just done them wonderful in the playoffs and that's kind of how you got to win and but with carolina when we sat here in the least we're down three or the florida panthers we didn't write the obituaries for uh the leafs until they officially lost that fourth game in game number five. So let's not rule out the miracles. 100%.

For either of the stars, like stars wouldn't even be a miracle. They're just down 2-0. And Carolina, they could always pull off a Boston Red Sox and come back from 3-0 down. Who knows? I do want to say one more thing about Jaguar. And this is so dead puck era. So the Anaheim Mighty Ducks,

because that's what they were called at the time, played 21 games. who is their highest scorer and how many points did they have gets laugh Rob no he was drafted that year nah well sorry I'll give you the score it was Adam

Oates but in 21 games how many points did he have what year is this 2003 oh my god you went far back that's that's when he won the consmith despite not winning the cup 15 13 13 oh my

gosh their leading goal score had seven in three assists someone else had six no one else had five wow how how I think that's a lot of credit to their head coach Mike Babcock

what are what he's doing Mitch Marner had 12 points against the lightning yeah yeah was Babcock on the odds for coach no no no they didn't even do it for fun like a 200 in a while or something?

They should have. That's a fun. That was stupid. By the way, I should mention that as the show is taking place, the Flames have officially hired

Craig Conroy to be their general manager. Brad Paschal gets promoted to vice president of hockey ops and Leaf fans know him well. Dave Nonis will be the senior vice president

of hockey operations and assistant GM. Yeah, I mean, people can grow and learn. Yeah, he's sort of been out of it for a while. I mean, he was with

anaheim for a while right just as in the in behind the scenes like agming and that's yeah i i'm not gonna read too much into that i mean uh flames fans are jacked about craig conroy so i would focus on that and you know dave notice i'm sure is capable of being a good assistant gm he i mean he might be another one of those guys who was good at the agm job but bad at the gm job do you want to tell your favorite story you like telling every couple of years on the podcast about the potato versus dave known as in vancouver oh man you're playing puppets was it dave known as versus a potato is that is that is that not what the blog was where they had a potato as so they set up the writers at canucks army set up a bot called sham sharon which i always thought was set

up by cam sharon but it was just in homage of their buddy and basically they took a look at the Canucks during Nones' tenure, I think. And they did who would do better, Dave Nones or a potato

in terms of drafting. So a potato cannot sign guys or whatever. Cannot trade. Cannot sign free agents. And the potato automatically selects the highest scoring major junior player with the next pick it can't go off the board they took down the article no the

original art i went to go click it because you could still click to the link and it's down damn it so basically it's basically there were a few picks that dave known as nailed but for the most part the potato that simply drafted the highest scoring major junior player who is available so that that also eliminates european free agents yeah i'm sorry european draftees uh like college guys and it mopped the floor with dave notice's actual record wow like one of the guys they could have picked was like claude geroux and it was it was bad it was bad that's rough that sucks that we're not able to post that yeah they have like one where they did uh shamsharon takes over all 30 draft tables how did he do and in this article

it links to some of the if a potato could do better if a potato named shamsharon blah blah and the explaining ones and they go on to 404 page oh page not found our landing pages i think we're confusing two articles because there was one that did the canucks not just dave notice it was the canucks draft record versus a potato or versus no no it wasn't versus a potato it was the canucks draft record versus sham sharon and then it was dave known as as a gm versus a potato and it's just you have to re-sign guys at their qualifying offer or something like that it was anyway dave known as lost wow to a potato but people can change and they can learn and they it embrace new things this was the analytics era when it was just coming in and and uh and you know

the Leafs were famously against it and their fans were crying for them to be for it and Shani took over and then Dubas eventually came in with Mark Hunter and then Lou Lamorello and the rest is history now um I want to quickly uh just say that it was fun to see Bruce Boudreaux on WWE last night that was really cool that was very cool he continues to be just the coolest guy Kevin Owens and sammy zane and brucey just living his best life yeah love it love it for brucey he deserves it you know what we'll wrap it up there because we have another show coming tomorrow so we're right back at it cool we'll talk about other shit i guess uh now no we'll spend the whole time talking about the leafs we got vegas and dallas tonight we'll see because every team

that's won in this series has not lost shut up that's mind blown every team that has won in in the in the eastern and western finals has not lost um we'll see if that record changes tonight are we gonna get a double sweep have we ever had one of those oh it's a good must have good question must i feel like uh sweeps really went out of style but like in the 90s oh there's sweeps all the time loved a good sweep yeah yeah me too you guys care about the tv ratings discourse it feels like this year there's more of the oh these teams are bad for tv rays i'm like i don't care i'm gonna watch the hockey either way it was bad hockey if there are three i'll still watch i don't know the flame the florida panthers fans sure showed up last night there and they've been

they've been loud i i i have to be honest man like uh the tv part for the business it's a story because it's the business but if you're a fan why do you give a shit yeah right like i i think um i think it's great we know hockey can work in florida because it does in tampa as someone who was there i do not expect fans to be like oh man i hope rogers revenues recover from this yeah it's weird that i don't expect you because if you care about the tv ratings like oh this matchup is bad for tv region so you are also like sympathetic to these big corporations making an extra well i think a lot of people saying it are working for those big corporations and are hoping for big names to get through so maybe that's where it's coming from i think people also want the fucking

cap to go up yeah to that i would just say you have no control over that yeah that's that's up to g bets and uh he's not gonna let it go up i don't think this year bummer bummer yeah but it could go up by as much as 10 all right let's uh uh let's call it a day let's call it a day have some candy yeah i want some candy did you buy the sour patch kids yep we got sour patch kids and m&ms now we have where are the m&ms i gotta put them in the container oh that's amazing the steve dangle podcast powered by sports interaction wanna bet follow the guys on twitter at steve underscore dangle at adam w y l d e and at jesse blake connection complete