The Steve Dangle Podcast - Toews Takes | December 20, 2023

Episode Date: December 20, 2023

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, Steve got Sharks gear (00:00), the Rangers bounce the puck past the Leafs (08:15), Jimmy Vesey speaks on the Leafs Amazon Doc (21:30), more on the Senators firing D.J. Smith (31:00), Devon Toews calls out his teammates (45:00), Rod Brind'Amour's Hall of Fame case (1:03:00), Nolan Patrick retires (1:11:00), do you miss Ryan Reaves? (1:20:00), and Ovechkin vs Jarry (1:25:00). Visit this episode's sponsors: https://kingstonfrontenacs.com/ Follow us on Twitter: @Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram: @SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake For general inquiries email: [e-mail] Reach out to https://www.sdpn.ca/sales to connect with our sales team and discuss the opportunity to integrate your brand within our content! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire

and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. New from Nespresso. Blend wellness into your coffee routine with the Coffee Plus range. Infused with functional benefits. Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins. Like Coffee Plus B12 to help support immune function. And Coffee Plus B6 to keep your day moving.

Or go with the flow and choose Ginseng Delight. Our new double espresso with ginseng extract. Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning. Let your morning change you. Discover Coffee Plus on Nespresso.com. with your host steve dangle adam wilde and jesse blake that's some it's a nice get up you got there huh nice uh nice little ensemble what are you talking about i mean it's this this cool starter jacket if you're if you're listening to this show steve is wearing one of those 90s starters

check is. Oh, thanks, man. Stand up one more time. With what Americans call a beanie, but the correct name for it is a toque. Ah, there it is. There it is. And there's that Steve Dangle booty, which we're all really here for that. It's a good fit. Steve, how did you get all this

San Jose Sharks gear living in Ajax? Well, I bought it like anyone else. Didn't you? Steve, we all know that you're still wearing the clothes that Nike bought you from 15 years ago. Hey, it's like 14 yeah pretty close to 15 listen first of all it's actually much harder to hear with this toucan second of all i just want to shout out jonathan betcher the uh president of my san jose

sharks until january 6th and 9th and then after that my san jose sharks uh for shouting out and showing love to someone who has always been the biggest sharks truther in the national hockey league because listen my san jose sharks did not start the season well we all know that it was well documented it was televised even but after that ah adam didn't i tell you not to touch it because the plate is hot. The San Jose Sharks, except for last night, they've been great.

They've been on one. Our Captain Logan Couture is nearing return. We're doing great. Sharks truth or Steve Dangle in the building and warmer and more stylish than ever before.

I'm taking the two cough. I think you should. Yeah. Now read the note. So I can hear. Oh, yeah. So I kept waiting for him to get to the note

and I'm like, he didn't get to the note. Give me a cue. the hot's like the hot the hat is hot yeah yeah i know i know i that's how i would feel if i was burning because i got a i got a warm head you know what i mean you know what i mean sorry that was actually the first line of the letter the cue is uh it's on official san jose sharks letterhead Steve! He knows my name. Welcome

to Team Teal. Sharks territory is everywhere. So we thought you should represent we'll be listening dot dot dot somewhat ominous. Teal together, Jonathan Betcher. And Jonathan is the president of the

Sharks. The president of the San Jose Sharks! And also underneath this starter jacket What do you got? Oh, this is buttoned up. Sorry. I obviously just threw this on over my head like a moron. I got a starter shirt. Hey, there you go.

I got the full outfit. Are you going to wear that the whole show, though? Are you going to be a little hot? No, you'd be a little hot. Okay, all right. You'll be good. Adam burns like a furnace. That's why he wears a t-shirt every show.

And you got Jesse and I over here like, Adam, what do you want to talk about next, man? You keep it quite cold in the studio, but that's how you have to have studios. You know, with all the gear and the lights that shine very bright. Cold is funny. Yes, that's right. Also, I'm sorry for your Sharks, though, last night.

Yeah, they allow Dave Rittich to pick up his first win of the season in his first start. 15 saves on 16 shots, and they lost to the Kings in the Battle of California. You know, big save it, David. You know, he does sometimes save it the day for them. Kings looking good. Kings looking good, but that's okay.

What is it? Items, objects in the rear view mirror are closer than they appear. And here come, here they, oh, Jesse. You hear that? I'm going to not tell you to look at the standings. No, no. Here they come. They're coming.

The truth is out there, Jesse. They've been playing real well. It's in the ocean. Also want to let you know that the Steve Dangle podcast is taking over. We haven't worked out a takeover with the Sharks yet, although we'd love to. Not yet. That would be cool. We were invited to the game.

It's just that little matter of the flight to California. Yeah, I hear those are not cheap. The Kingston Frontenacs and Steve Dangle Podcast are teaming up for Steve Dangle Podcast Night, January 21st. You get to see the game. You get to eat, and you get to watch the show, all for $50. Go to kingstonfrontenacs.com.

And also, look at the menu at the Merchant Taphouse. I don't know. Do you guys go to a restaurant and like to be surprised by the menu, or do you like to know beforehand? Ooh. Because my wife Natalie won't go to a restaurant Without looking at the menu Gabby's the exact same way

And it's not even like I need to look at the menu She needs to do it for like an hour And decide and know every single meal And this is the one I'm getting And you show up, Maddie's the same way Maddie, you need to look at the menu and everything I'm the most indecisive person ever So I need to look at the menu

I need to look at everything I want to know if I want to split some apps with someone I want to know if I want to I need to be plopped into the moment and go, what do you want now? That's not going to get a woo out of me. That's going to get a rrrr. Well, you know, sometimes it's a rrrr. He's got to do a dog noise.

Because it's Mad Dog. Mad Dog. By the way, the reason we call Maddie Mad Dog is... She hates it. We tried to write Maddie once and it turned into Mad Dog. And now it's like it was like an Apple autocorrect. Who did it the first time? I think it was Chris Johnson.

Yes, it was Chris. On my birthday. Oh, yeah. We were saying happy birthday, Maddie. There's a happy birthday, Mad Dog. And now we just call him Mad Dog. Naturally, we all just went, oh! The food thing is a little intense.

It is intense. I just want to be drunk. I'm with Gabby and Natalie. So go to the Merchant Tap House so you can check out their menu there and pick beforehand. Or, you know, just come and hang out and feel like what you're feeling that night. All right? Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Now, let's talk about goals that go in off of defense. You know, son of a gun, both of my teams had bad luck yesterday. They did. And actually, the Senators did, too. One went off Chikrin. Did you see that one? Well, there are no more.

Your third team. Your third team. The Ottawa Senators. You know, who won the August Cup, but the June Cup's looking a little shaky. What happened in August, Adam? They won the Cup. Who? The Senators.

No way. They did. They did, yeah. Yeah, they did. It was crazy. We were all there. I can't believe you can't remember it. But if these seven or eight things did or didn't go their way,

they'd be in the playoffs right now. I know which core I'd want. Yeah? I know which core that I'd be. That's going to be better. They blew a three-goal lead with your new coach behind the bench. That's right. Not great.

I do like Mark Mathot. He seems to have a really good sense of humor. Jumping on Twitter, because he said in 2021 that he thought that Sen's core would be way better than the Leafs core. by this year, and he was like, So, correct me if I'm wrong, Daniel Alfredson has been behind the bench for two games for the Sens.

One in Sweden, one in North America. And they've blown a three and four goal lead. Was that the Sweden game? It was 4-0 in Sweden. Detroit erased it. That was the Stutzla baseball swing in overtime with two seconds left. So they ended up winning,

so all is forgiven, no one cares. But they did blow a four goal lead. That was the James Reimer duck. Which, in person, I had a view of it, and we were all like, did he? And then we saw the replay, and we were like, he did! So, yeah, they blew a 4-0 lead and a 3-0 lead with Alfie behind the bench. Wow. Not great, Bob.

Not great, Bob. Not great. The Leafs had three of their four goals go in off of their own defenseman, I believe, last night. One of the only goal that I think Martin Jones probably should have had... Was the only shot that beat him? That's right. And it really was, it was a good rush by the Rangers player. I forget his name at the moment.

Braden Schneider. There you go. But, you know, it goes in through the five hole, and you're like, eh, I probably should have had that one. You know, I'm sorry. I'm not like everybody else that gives a goalie a pass on everything. He should have had that. You need that save.

By his own admission. Yeah. You know. You need that save. But I've liked Martin Jones. I never thought I'd say that. I've really liked Martin Jones. You know what he seems?

Relaxed. he's very relaxed and i love sammy um everything he does just emits stress feels jumpy right now yeah it's um everything feels panicked his movements are way too like jones you know what i like the most about jones he stands in his net he just stays in the crease you know why if you're a goaltender tend the goal like jones has actually been a calming presence back there although last night while on the phone with jesse we discovered one of the most mind-melting stats i've ever seen so jones was in the middle of playing a very good game when we were on the phone and i i looked at his season last year he had an 887 save percentage but a record of 27 13 and 3

that doesn't make sense uh i believe philip grubauer had a better save percentage by a pretty wide margin yes but not not the why he was still under 900 yeah maybe not wide margin but 887 to 895 895 feels a lot closer to league average yeah 87 yep he was last i know it's not a huge difference last year he was at 895 and what was his record 17 14 and 4 so below okay above betman 500 but below real 500 he lost 18 games and won 17 jones was 27 13 and 3 and i said to jesse there's got to be something to that like surely that's a record yep for having a save percentage that bad and having that many wins and i looked it up and turns out i was actually kind of right since the 2000 2001 season no goalie in the nhl has had a single season save percentage

of 888 or lower and won more games than martin jones he won 27 you have to go all the way back to the 95 96 season who was the name bill ranford wow he had 34 wins with a save percentage of i think it was 887 and that was 95 96 if you look at the numbers was still juiced and right after that one or two seasons after that the dead puck era comes roaring in like real fast but 95 96 was still high flying goal scoring is back up at around the 80s ish pace so it sort of makes sense But what were the Kraken on where they won 27 games getting sub 8-8-8 goaltending? And it wasn't just him, by the way. No.

Well, Grubauer was also bad, but they couldn't win games with Grubauer in net. They could win with Jones in net. Explain. It's weird. They could win with Jones in net, stopping a smaller percentage of the pucks. Explain. Like over a ridiculous sample size for both goalies. Explain.

I don't get it. Did you get some answers from Kraken fans when you tweeted that out? I did not. No. I did not. But Kraken fans, please respond to this video or just tweet at us or email us, whatever. What's up with that?

Why did Jones have 10 more wins than Grubauer despite not saving as many pucks? That's a good question. I don't get it. Well, and so I think what we've seen with Martin Jones so far in Toronto as a stabilizing veteran effect. And I'll be honest with you, I have not been a Martin Jones fan

since he was probably just getting into San Jose. He had a good couple of years there. And when the Leafs signed him this summer, I was like, well, I hope he doesn't have to play too much. And he's been- Straight up the starter. Right now he is. He's the starter.

Until Wolfe's back. And he seems calm. And it makes me wonder when Wolfe does come back, what, like Sammy's, I know Sammy's got the contract, But if he hasn't turned it around in the next, I guess, four more weeks that Wool's out, is Sammy the one sitting in the press box? No, I think they find a home for him.

There's got to be a deal there. Oh, you would trade him? See, I think they go into the playoffs with all three of those guys. I mean, it'd be nice to have all three, but can they afford it? Yeah, you'd lose them on waivers, would you not? Well, you definitely lose them on waivers. You don't do that. You don't do that.

So you've got to find a way to get some assets back for that. I mean, you want a playoff series with this goalie. No one can say they want a playoff series with the Leafs since Ed Balfour, who has been retired quite some time. Whatever they got to do to get him back on track. If that is not playing games, do it. Do it. There's a goalie there.

We know there's a goalie there. He's got talent. We got to find him. No question. No question. It seems to be between the ears for Sammy. And you know what? one of the things that that plays a part in this and people will scoff and laugh but um having a

new kid which he does yes does interrupt things it interrupts your flow and athletes are very like routine driven and they like their sleep and they like to do this and they like to do that when you've got a kid at home it's not about you anymore it's not about the routine that you feel that you want to be in the kids like this is what i feel right now and i'm going to scream about it and maybe that's a part of it too and i don't mean to be like well you shouldn't have kids as an athlete but like yeah i could throw you off absolutely can i give you a stat this is how mind-bending martin jones is i don't understand the school tender okay uh jack campbell in the american hockey league this year has a record of four and six with an 888 save percentage

wow that's terrible martin jones has a two one and one record with an 870 that's bongers what that is bonkers why does he win how does this goalie win games there's gotta be something there where his size or positioning and guys just aren't taking shots they would take on other goal please someone explain or is it just pure luck please someone explain yep maybe he plays to the score so if it's like a four goal game like he has a four goals for his team he's like i can allow three well he allowed a grand a grand total of one bad goal last night and it was the game winning goal so i don't know i'm just saying like maybe the larger sample size like oh they scored seven i'm gonna allow six and the grand fuhrer strategy yeah he did it on purpose you see yeah

of course of course that's how it went i think i think uh it's it's it's a nice story it's a good story you gotta you gotta enjoy that story right you gotta as a leaf fan you gotta be like man this is this is awesome that we have goaltending depth and the hilda beast waiting in the wings in the ahl right yes dennis hildeby uh i can look it up yeah adam's looking it up this dude first of all i think he might be the biggest person to ever play for the leafs organization uh or when he plays a game in the nhl he'll be the biggest person to ever play for the leafs organization they have had six foot eight guys like on the marlies and on the growlers maybe even no not six foot nine six foot seven and six foot eight um but dennis hildeby if he makes the

leaves he'll be i think the first six seven player yeah he's six seven two twenty twenty two years old that's a big boy it's a big boy and what are his stats uh his stats with the marlies this year are pretty good. 6-3-2. The Marlies are okay. Yeah. But his goaltending stats, like his save percentage right now

is a 9-2-9. Damn. The gap between... His goal is against average? Yeah. And I know we don't like that stat as much. No, it's not good. 1.82.

Like, if you score... That means if you score two goals, you're more likely to win the game than not. Martin Jones is an 8-70 on the same team. still above 500 and Hildeby is an 8 sorry a 9-2-9

if I'm looking at this from Leafs management's perspective if Ilya comes back and starts playing better and then Joe Wall comes back and the high ankle sprain isn't deterring him because if you're the Leafs management right now you are not rushing Joseph Wolbach you're letting him go as long as he needs to go

because they prepared for this and we've seen them scramble in years before for shit that they didn't prepare for michael hutchinson matthew nice last year think about that um but uh i think that they're okay with this and if you lose one of those two guys if you lose sam you lose martin jones or whatever it is in a trade dennis hildeby's having a great year he's had in 21 22 with far your stad he had a great record um last year he split time between the marley's and far your stad and both And, well, the Marlies record isn't great, but the Fajrstad stats are crazy.

And then this year he's been amazing with the Marlies. So I don't think, much like Joseph Wohl last year, especially at 22 years old, are you afraid to bring him up for a couple of games should you need him? I don't think so. No. You don't want to, but I'm just saying, like, you are dealing from a position of strength here. To me, you need to be forced into it. You don't call him up to give him a shot.

You call him up because you have no other choice. That's right. You have no other choice. Someone's injured. But I'd be comfortable with having a gander. Why not? A couple of games? Why not?

How old is he? He's 22. So he was a little young. Yeah, he's definitely young, but he was drafted. I want to know who in Kyle Dubas' Leafs regime was the guy who was like, I want to draft 20-year-old Dennis Hildeby. I'm pretty sure he was 20 when they picked him. When he got drafted?

Yeah, so that's overager, I think, times two. um and if i'm not mistaken he was the first player drafted in i think it was 2021 i think it was the montreal draft where the all the phones went out um i think he was the first player drafted from that draft to sign an nhl deal they wanted this guy wow they wanted him and they wanted to get him to north america as fast as possible took a couple years here he is and he's playing great. I'm excited for the Hilda Beast. Me too.

It's going to be great. Now, with the Leafs, obviously the Rangers get their revenge. The Leafs embarrass them at home. The Rangers get a win on the Leafs' home ice. I don't think it was an embarrassing win, but it was a win, and I'm sure that felt good for them.

CJ did tweet this yesterday. Austin Matthews casually has 11 goals in his last seven games. He has nine multi-goal games this season. He is on pace for 67. Yes, that's right. 67 goals this year. But you know what?

It's not. Last year, the way he was getting goals, we're like, ah, those are playoff-style goals. He's tipping them in and he's banging them in. This dude's scoring Austin Matthews goals. He is ripping them. And he's finding the open ice, which he seemed to really struggle to do at times last year

and the beginning of this year. And his shot is as good as it's ever been. You know, I don't expect him to score at over a goal a game forever, but he is ripping the biscuit. The first one he scored was really nice, where he shot it from like behind him and kind of just wired it and it went over Shostakovich's shoulder there. What do you do?

Like as a goalie, what do you do? There's no wind up. There's no nothing. It's just immediate. Yeah. the puck touches his stick and flings away like it's got a negative magnetic pull like how the what are you supposed to do about that how do you prepare for that shot and i think this is the way he started this year it's even more evident to me and i think it should be to least fans that

he was not completely healthy last year and and he was clearly playing with with a bit of an injury and when you get off to a slow start and there's a bit of an injury and you you don't have your full off season to train it really affects your game and it clearly affected him for the majority of last season and this year we get a fully healthy austin matthews who had a full training camp a full summer to prepare and now he's on pace for 67 goals that's so silly yeah that is so silly man uh 67 molly walker had a really great article uh she's a post reporter for the for new york post reporter uh for the rangers uh and she talked to jimmy vc about his time in toronto and i don't know if you saw this quote but i sure did there was an episode and we talked

about this with our you know the amazon doc where uh it's an episode two sheldon keith takes jimmy vc aside and says i just want to i want to be sure that you know that it's been very vanilla as in his play vc responded by saying he felt like keith was telling him that he didn't know or didn't like his game and as a result he'd be out soon and he was waived by the end of that episode now um it apparently got so bad for jimmy that he was just going to go to europe but it was the devils that extended a pto and he's been able to turn around his career since what was very interesting though he's been great on the rangers yeah uh back on the rangers yeah because he was good the first time on the rangers uh she uh keith was asked about vc during his post-game press

conference and he said are we done oh you know what that was over a year ago that was over a year ago that was over a year ago oh yeah that wasn't last oh that wasn't last night but the quote that still the quote that i thought you'd find interesting is what vc had to say about the way he was portrayed because he said i haven't watched it but i don't think i should have been featured as prominently as i was that means you watched it from what i heard vc said in a documentary about a team that lost in the first round of the playoffs and i wasn't there for it i think they had the final say on what went in and sometimes you have to point the arrow somewhere other than yourself you know what that's salty as hell but leaf fans aren't going to want to hear

this i understand he's right see i don't think he is why why because i think if you've watched any of the other amazon documentaries part of because they do this with other teams right that in hockey we have this insular thing well they've only done it about us um they've done this with like juventus um and what they do is they talk about the team and its movement throughout the year yes jimmy vc was brought in to score 20 goals for the toronto maple leafs on the second line so it was a story it was a story when he didn't work out so i understand why jimmy's saying that i understand why he's hurt by it but it was the second episode of like an eight-part series and he was out early and that is a story let me correct myself then he's right for the wrong

reasons okay um because he's making it sound like well that just shouldn't have been in there it should have been in there needs to be in there it needs to be in there a hundred percent The observation I have made several times since that documentary came out is Jimmy Vesey got a raw deal compared to the other guys on that team. The Leafs and the people who edited that documentary protected guys who stayed on the Toronto Maple Leafs after the 2021 bubble season. Yeah. We know there was stuff cut from that documentary that did not make them look good.

Make certain players look good at all. players management too management too didn't make them look good there's there's stuff that was left in like i think sheldon keeve telling the goalie coach to fuck off was pretty funny dubas after going to shanahan to get the approval for a trade for felino yeah yeah yeah that didn't look good on either of them frankly um but like the goalie coach was also gone shortly after jimmy vc was placed on waivers claimed by the canucks so we don't need to save his feelings who cares he's not on the leafs anymore these other guys these guys who make all the money the star money no we got to save their feelings it's not going to make them very happy if we include this on the doc

in the documentary so it is not the job of documentarians to be like well no everyone needs to look good so like all the jimmy vc stuff the calling him vanilla him getting claimed off waivers the clip of brendan shanahan really not giving a fuck when he got claimed off waivers um all that should have been left in the documentary but they did not treat the guys who stayed on the team the same they didn't do that to anybody else no no they didn't give them the same benefit of the doubt the same grace jimmy vc was no longer under the mlse umbrella when they're editing this doc and they said hey go ahead you can show all this about this guy because he's no longer in this organization i think if he is upset with the way he was portrayed i think he

has a little ground to stand on because of that i think but everything that everything that was portrayed was also accurate i my problem with that my problem with that documentary frankly at the end was how they wrapped it up they're like well we lost the game seven do it again next year yeah here's the here's kyle dubas's empty empty board in his shitty office uh that before they lose in They never captured how outrageous it was that they lost. They never captured how ridiculous it was that Montreal beat them so soundly in those last three games. They never captured how – and it's not that Amazon didn't want to.

It's the Leafs wouldn't let them. Yeah, if you go back and you watch the playoff portion of that, it's sped through. That's one of the – Everyone went to the playoffs. Oops. Yeah, we went to the playoffs and we lost, and that was it. shows over now like they they clearly did not have as much footage during that time because clearly they didn't want the cameras everywhere during the playoffs and that portion is a little

disappointing and seeing behind the scenes because i assume there isn't much behind the well actually i will say they do have the footage from what i have heard 70 of what was shot or what was in the original documentary was cut by the leafs well i had final decision lots of stuff is gonna get cut no no but the way they'd framed it i think there was some neil anders stuff his agent didn't like it anderson anderson stuff yeah but i'm talking specifically about the playoffs yeah they they left all that out or it wasn't there and that's a decision you know we don't want to go into this because it wasn't a happy ending the marner stuff after game six hey man you good yep all right and he just walks off yeah but vc vc we can torch him so that guy will

embarrass him so that's why i'm saying i understand vc's frustration with the documentary yeah he's right he's right i i leave fans i'm sorry he's right i understand it but i i disagree with it right i think you got it i think you got it if a guy who's supposed to come in and score 20 goals on your left wing doesn't do it i think that's a big story oh he was given a golden opportunity and failed yeah here yeah then he picked up his socks and he figured it out in new york and he's doing great um i wanted to you know when we finished the show last time dj smith had just been fired we get we get nothing on the rangers oh what do you want to talk about with their shut up um excuse me best power play in the league they did look good they did look good number

number oh shut up number one power play in the league don't take penalties toronto uh two for two alexis lafreniere breaks a 12 game goalless streak pots one on the first power play panarin comes out for the second one wires it home yeah they might they might score a power play goal on their own next time yeah rangers looking good none of those none of those actually went in their intended target they went off of leafs they went in the back of the initial shot that's all that matters that was panarin's goal was william lagasin's first career nhl that's right all that matters is that the best power play in the league delivered two times consecutively and it was a beautiful thing to watch and what well rangers you know they like up let's go we should spend

some time on how invisible the least power play looked in that game they didn't get any yeah because you know what the one thing i know about 60 minutes of hockey is there's there's no fucking way and i'm not even joking here there's no way that any team goes through 60 minutes of hockey and is perfect that's such crap i'll say bullshit i believe are 29th in the nhl in power plays for power play opportunities yeah but the style they play the style they play though that has changed over the years and has changed drastically this year has changed uh it doesn't welcome it you know if you say it enough times it just becomes true yes oh true like jacob truba who defeated the toronto maple leafs last night like like lil wayne saying i'm the best rapper alive a bunch of

times and jay-z also saying i'm the best rapper alive yeah his their fans going at it online about who was the best rapper alive i think if you told refs the sky is green enough it would just be the reality like dylan larkin i thought had a great quote uh that came out yesterday where he found a way to compliment the refs and criticize them at the same time where he's like oh i think they're the best refs in the world it's just the way they call the game comes from their bosses right it's it's on down he's right i just thought that was very clever i just want to know how you're ever gonna stop braden schneider so i don't know um by uh making sure the leafs stop um acquiring guys and giving them away for free like eric gustafson who give him the puck he got the primary assist on

that damn goal i i i don't get it he was a good leaf it was a good leaf it was a good leaf for a hot minute and then they're like you know what let's overspend on john klingberg instead of keeping cheaper less injured john klingberg yep very frustrated um two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer that's why every step and dollar raised matters on september 19th Join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.

New from Nespresso. Blend wellness into your coffee routine with the Coffee Plus range, infused with functional benefits. Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins, like Coffee Plus B12 to help support immune function and Coffee Plus B6 to keep your day moving. Or go with the flow and choose Ginseng Delight, our new double espresso with ginseng extract. Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning. Let your morning change you. Discover Coffee Plus on Nespresso.com. I want to talk about the DJ Smith stuff because we didn't really get the chance to jump into it.

it just happened but we did that little addendum at the beginning of the show um i was thinking about this and so this this tweet really stuck with me and it talks about the senators and their previous head coaches and i want to go through it because uh trevor shackles uh ottawa senator's writer um uh basically said this after being fired these are the previous these are the coaches that have been fired and what they've done since and we're going far back okay dj smith uh uh obviously just got fired that was days ago gee boucher never an nhl head coach after that dave cameron never an nhl head coach after that paul mcclain never an nhl head coach after that cory cluston never an nhl head coach after that craig hartsburg never an nhl head coach after that and john paddock

never an nhl head coach after that wow that is ugly man and and and this is a league that recycles these guys like they're they're tin it's crazy like these these guys there's like 40 guys who can do this and no one else can do this so maybe it's good that the senators are giving people a try but jacques martin head coach a team after the sense i think he did pittsburgh if i'm not oh maybe i or no maybe you remember he coached somewhere else he did coach somewhere else but and he's 71 and it was good by the way he's 71 yeah he's 71 he's not gonna be the coach forever he's just trying to that's why he's pretty good that was a part of the narrative of he'll never take over this job he's so old like a 71 year old not looking to be a full-time head coach and

all of that was nonsense i don't think he's gonna be a head coach for like years and years no but i'm telling you they're gonna wait until the end of the season and they're gonna hire jay mckee that's what i think is gonna happen okay well that's fair uh or here let me throw another one out there steve stayos is the president and gm of the sense keep going who the oilers just fire j woodcroft j woodcroft and that's where steve stayos came from i got one for you j woodcroft's house what he went where did steve stayos come from at j woodcroft's house oh okay bakersfield right yes okay i got i got one for you that's a little closer to home uh we have a we have a football coach in toronto his name is john gruden he is the current coach of the toronto marlies

in i was like pinball clemens is not signing with the audible senators in 2017 2018 mr john gruden won the super bowl when he captured the memorial cup is it the moral cup with the hamilton bulldogs the gray cup wait jesse you're so you're confusing me john gruden the hockey coach so the hamilton bulldogs won the championship in 1718 yes whatever that championship may be john gruden was head coach at the time owner of the hamilton bulldogs when they won that championship michael ann lauer michael ann lauer oh his ties to the hamilton bulldogs run deep maybe as the ottawa senators love to do love hire guys from the maple leafs organization players coaches everywhere around the Leafs organization they love bringing them to Ottawa

maybe Michael Ann Lauer and Steve Stales go get their former well Michael Ann Lauer's former head coach and they bring the Marlies head coach to Ottawa I like that that is a great theory Jesse that's a good theory my point is this to this day or to this these last few head coaches from Trevor Shackles uh not great it's not great that they didn't go on to do much and and I was thinking about this a little bit and and then i got down the wormhole in my own head about dj smith you know there's a lot of senators uh accounts right now that are posting things that like you know daniel alfredson and jacques martin have you know a couple of games under their belt and you've already got clips of daniel alfredson going over and talking to players when they're just out for

a skate saw that there's going out for a skate and he's like what the hell was that castellick with a little bit of light cardio exactly cardio what are they what is it not cardio merchant Cardio merchants. And that's just not going to fly in Ottawa anymore. DJ Smith in Toronto, when he was the assistant coach under Babcock, was known as the good guy. And he made some baffling decisions in Ottawa as a head coach. You know, he was never given a great roster.

No. But really, he also made some baffling decisions with that roster. They never outperformed what they were supposed to be, which is a sign of a good head coach. And it makes me wonder what kind of baffling decisions were made when he was working here and it's it goes back to like i wonder like i don't doubt that dj smith is a really good guy but i also do doubt the decision making process now that i've seen it out in the open and seen it in ottawa for five years i mean the dj smith leafs could not defend

their way out of a wet paper bag they were awful how were the senators on that not much better five years and and the thing is like the highest that he got them was like 25th oh in league standing yeah i think so like it's not good it's not a good it's really not a good record and i'm not trying to like dump on dj smith i'm just trying to say like listen uh as a toronto maple east fan how do i make this about me it does make me question what the hell was going on in those early years now he was highly sought after though he was he was like in terms of uh at the time i don't remember what year the sons hired him but you know i think it was 1819 1920 1920 so first in terms of uh coaches that you could bring in at the time he was an up-and-comer

uh he was remember he was assistant and good guy supposedly on the leafs in the middle of a rapid turnaround for the team um and he won the memorial cup with the oshawa generals as head coach before that and and just to note before people get upset with me the hamilton bulldogs won the ohhl championship not the memorial cup i thought it was jay mckee they won it with uh in 1718 the ohl championship was uh mr john gruden gosh darn yeah darn and maybe maybe j mckee was also on that staff i'll do a little dig in here maybe i'm just i feel bad for sense fans because i think now they're finally getting i've said that a lot i feel bad for sense man i think they're finally getting a coach at least in jacques martin that is going to clean some of

this shit up and i don't know that that was in dj smith's nature right like when you're the good guy and things are going well that that all feels good but when you're the good guy and things suck well what what do you make of them letting him run a practice and do his media availability and then fire him it's it feels melnicky um it's and and very strange isn't it yeah and especially because like um i think uh um some of the guys from ottawa like ian mendez wrote an article in athletic about how he was frozen out by the Sens for four years but DJ Smith would always talk to him oh my oh I did see that and you know what Ian's so friggin classy he is he could have made such a stink out of that for those of you who don't know the Melnick Senators yeah they froze

Ian Mendez out and were basically I don't think he was the only one I think local podcaster was too oh that's right i don't think he was even accredited oh really i don't think so we'd have i mean i'd have to ask no idea ian's been a supporter for a long time but he has too much class to make himself the story but like that's an outrageous story that we don't like your coverage because it's not positive enough towards our shitty team so we're gonna freeze you out for not praising our team that's doing poorly that's garbage and now it's good to see him at least back in the organization's good graces um and by that i mean the senators uh support journalism again i don't even think it's about supporting journalism i think it's because

they can't the senators couldn't possibly have more bad pr in ottawa and and somehow the fans stuck around didn't reject the the brand the logo the players uh but that ownership was a disaster total disaster and I and and you could see it in everything that's happened since 2017 so I wonder with Alfredson on the bench that carries weight Jacques Martin the coach of their best years that's got to carry some weight I wonder if these players start to turn a corner and and you know I've wondered that about the Pittsburgh Penguins because we saw what happened when Knobloch took over in in edmonton i know they lost last night three in a row but they won eight in a row to start there's usually a heater there's yeah john heinz as well yes yeah john heinz who did not start

mark andre flurry against the penguins weird really weird i think the the like coach bump theory thing i was expecting it last night and it happened right away you know you get a three goal lead and then you blow that lead but i think like there's a little stretch here where ottawa was going to play decent hockey but i don't think this season they're looking at it like how they looked at it at the beginning of the season where it's hey we can challenge for a playoff spot and all that yeah they might get the little bump here but i don't think it's gonna all these players are all of a sudden gonna take this team to the playoffs they they have that coaching staff has a really difficult job mentally here like you have to play even if you have like a minuscule

chance of making the playoffs you have to act like you still have a shot oh yeah because there's so many freaking games left there's what is it like 50 probably more than 50 for them like something like 55 games that's so many games uh it's still possible for you to make the playoffs like you need to build towards something for god's sake um you know and you almost gotta develop good habits on the fly right like sometimes you maybe sacrifice doing the best thing for winning in an individual game for sticking to a theme that'll help you in the long term it's just like i just see how the players and the fans are starting to match how each other act yeah like it's dejected and almost like an acceptance of this is a lost season you can't

look at it like that you gotta push through there's too much season left you can't become failure the Ottawa Senators currently sit last in the Eastern Conference with 22 points they've played 27 games and oh boy yeah they're five back of their nearest competitor the Columbus Blue Jackets who have 27 that's crazy it's not acceptable for the Ottawa Senators to finish the season and I know Montreal's been a bit of a heater and the Sabres have disappointed but in their division it's not acceptable for the Senators not to finish ahead of at least the canadian did any of us have the sens last no in their division no we thought they'd be a fringe playoff team they ought to be i mean you know what's what this league really doesn't have anymore

except for maybe a couple teams bad teams like i feel like last year genuinely terrible last year i think there were three very bad yeah oh yes the sharks ducks and blackhawks yeah but you know what we also had, first of all, don't disparage the Sharks. You know what we had last year? Conor Bedard. And Macklin Celebrini doesn't have the same fanfare. The Blackhawks

are still bottoming out. Everyone else is interested in winning. Like, even the teams at the bottom don't want to be there. They have no aspirations of being there. The Sharks had the really terrible start. They've won a bunch of games. The Blue Jackets

not doing great at it but they're trying to win freaking games they hung nine on the sabers last night the sabers who by the way are not trying to be this bad the sends are not trying to be this bad yep who's actually tanking yeah it's like one team for this season yeah 100 yeah yeah it's it's probably the sharks and the blackhawks are the only two teams that are really trying to be bad and even the blackhawks like they didn't mean to be like this like the cory perry said they overspent on Corey Perry to bring him in. They overspent on Nick Foligno. They brought in

Taylor Hall. What's the point of that? You stink. Well, Hall got injured. Corey Perry. No, but I'm saying you brought in Taylor Hall in the hopes of, alright, put him on the wing of the kid and we'll let them be our Batman and Robin little duo. I don't think they were trying to be good.

I don't think they were trying to be good, but they weren't trying to be the worst team in the league. um listen there are years where teams are very obviously trying to do that and i think this year you i think you're 100 right in that there's probably just two who are the two sharks and blackhawks the shark no how dare you have lost three in a row and are nine and twenty and three you know what i'm putting i'm putting the toque back on to keep myself shelter there are minus 61 in gold difference yeah because you're still caught up in

They're bad start to the season. I'm not going to let your false narrative interrupt my shark's truth. All right? Yeah. I'm allowed to say that they're bad right now. Jesse, I sent you a video. And I was just hoping you could play said video. I think this season's been really good for hockey fans.

I think we've had, if you're like, obviously, it's team variant. So I'm sure that there's Ducks fans who are like, yeah, I disagree with that. But as an overall NHL season, this is one of the best seasons I can remember for storylines and drama and people being honest. It's been really compelling. Really compelling. And what you're going to see here is Devon Taves, who is one of the best defensemen on a team with a lot of great defensemen. He's one of the best defensemen in the league. I cannot believe the Islanders gave him up for what they gave him up for.

Two seconds. And he has something to say About people on his own team And as NHL players They never say anything bad So this I think you will find Fascinating Adam do you want to be proud

I was a good boy I knew you would have this prepared And I knew you would be excited about it I haven't watched it Oh even better here we go Can't wait It seems like you guys never really got going in that one, but what kind of unfolded in that one from your perspective? Yeah, we came out pretty well actually. You know, power play goals obviously helped.

At some point, you know, they're going to get power plays back too. It usually tends to even itself up and, you know, break down. Except for a penalty kill for the third goal, but besides that, no, we didn't really get to our game much. much you know it looked at times like we were and then we just don't I think it's frustrating right now. I was going to say you seem really visibly frustrated what is it that's just so upsetting about a loss like that? No it's just self-awareness of knowing the situation and knowing the way the game's trending and we have guys that are you know going out against our structure and doing things that we don't do as a team

and that's what's frustrating you know when you have 20 guys in here that are working towards the same goal and have the same you know goal in mind it's fun to play you know that's how you win games in this league and when you have 14 guys that are that are playing to the structure and six that aren't it's really tough to win in this league that's you know you know or many guys to go against the way your team wants to play in order to in order to lose a game and just our self-awareness of knowing when we're playing well and knowing when and you're not, it's just not there.

We don't have the self-awareness of what it takes to win as a team and what it takes as an individual to compete and play your best right now. So it's frustrating when, you know, as a collective, you're not pulling for the same goal. Not done yet. This is maybe a silly question. How do you fix that?

I mean, it's self-awareness. We need guys that know, you know, know how to play in our system, how to play our game and know what it takes. And we have guys in here, I think we've got some guys that think they're playing well, and I think they're kidding themselves at this point. It's frustrating to play out there when you've got guys that think they're playing well and they're doing things that you have no idea what play they're going to make

or where they're going to be on the ice. It's tough to play in this league when you don't know where your teammates are going to be. So, you know, that's where a lot of the frustration stems from. Wow. see it starts it sort of simmers and then he got it finally goes you know what fuck it i'm going for it wow i love this by the way where was this posted uh gorilla sports i think had it but it was a post game and okay you know they lost three to two to chicago i was like third goal came in by tyler johnson with uh at 819 in the third so you know what what's there's a few things there

but i thought the thing that was most interesting is not the thing that's maybe making headlines is He's like, you've got guys who you don't even know what play they're going to make. That's icy. Because the whole thing about playing hockey at that speed is knowing where your teammates are on the ice in the positioning. And if he's just like, they don't know or I don't know where they're going to be, that's a big shot at just those guys playing NHL hockey. Like, that is a huge deal, what he's saying. Six guys.

I assume that this has been talked through in the dressing room. This is the last straw for Mr. Taves. You know, going to the media and complaining about it publicly because they've tried to fix this internally. And he's fed up. Yeah, right. Oh, yeah. I think we have a good read on that.

I also think that that room, you know, any room with Nathan McKinnon in it is going to be held to a very high standard. Yes. You know, and Nathan McKinnon can be ornery, right? When Zdorov was talking about it, he's, guys, could we save the chocolate bars for the offseason? I don't think Zdorov was making that up. I think McKinnon got pissed that Zdorov told that publicly.

But I think that that is their mindset. They won a cup. That's why they're so successful. They have been. Listen, they've only got the one cup, but I think they've been one of the most successful teams for, what, half a decade now? That sounds like Nathan McKinnon speaking through Devontaeves.

Doesn't it? It sounds like their captain, or Nathan McKinnon, is giving them the mentality that they need to go win. And the 14 guys that are buying in, like they seem to embody him and there's a bunch of guys that don't and they need to get their act together so let's play the game name name who is it names come on devon well like is it okay based on what he said do we think he's talking about guys who were on the cup winning team or new guys i think it's gotta be new guys you'd think also just everybody corrected myself when i

briefly called mckinnon captain i know it's landis cock so i'm looking at it right yeah bowen byram devon taves josh manson kiel mccarr all buy-in guys all guys who were on the team their chips are in the middle of the table they're buying in buying in yep nathan mckinnon miko ranton uh valerie nakushkin um was logan o'connor yeah logan o'connor i believe was on that cup winning team i don't remember if andrew cogliano was i think he might have been on the stars we just pulled up at the time uh all those guys were on that team that won landis cog is obviously like that's a big power vacuum man i know he's still around the team but he's a big that was a big leader with a lot of history if you're not there every game and you're not there

playing it's different like i know they don't want a captain but like right now there is like a well it's why the leafs kept playing ryan reeves when he's when bobby mcmahon is clearly a guy that should be playing right it's that you need the guy for the message to matter and it doesn't matter if you're the captain and the best player in the team or you're the right winger but you're the vibes guy you have to be playing for that message to sink in and you know what i was just looking at their long-term injured reserve i saw our tory leckanen was there so this devon taves clip comes a week maybe less after miko ranton called out arturi leckanen's dad for criticizing him in the media this is a very grumpy group right now now if they get it together that's

scary isn't it oh it's incredibly scary well because look look who's on their team logan o'connor by the way was on the cup winning team yeah i thought he was yeah so here here are some new guys ross colton uh i don't know he scored a cup winning goal played against colorado in the cup final um ryan johansson is a new guy that's interesting miles wood put a little guy put a little star next to that one yeah andrew cogliano i would be stunned he's 36 there's there's a guy who probably knows what's going on. Probably. Jonathan Druin is kind of interesting.

He's gotten some opportunities in the top six. You're a buddy of one of the guys. You make it be a little too relaxed. Put a star next to that one. I don't know. Joel Kiviranta. Joel fucking Kiviranta. We've got to come up with six, remember.

Yeah. And Frederick Olofsson. What's his role? What about on the D court? You would assume, like, is Devontae's pissed about a D-to-D pass? Is he pissed about a pass up to the forward? Yeah. Or is he talking about, like, is he getting so into the weeds

that he's talking about fourth liners? I don't know. Well, like, Curtis McDermott, I can't remember if he was on. He was. Curtis McDermott's been on for a long time. He was? Oh, okay, so I missed him. So now you're down to Sam Molenski, Jack Johnson.

Who was on the team. Who was on that team, actually. And Caleb Jones. I think it's a forward. Guys, there can be players that were on that team that are not as bought in. well people do go well i got my cup you know what he's on a point streak but what about nathan mckinnon could be him it's probably it's tase versus mckinnon i've always said he's but

actually jack johnson was not there yeah i thought he was in pittsburgh yeah no jack johnson no eric johnson yes yeah yes that's what we got confused with but who was the guy wasn't jack johnson on the blackhawks but they let him on to the Cup banner celebration? Oh, yeah. No, no. I'm wrong. Here's Jack Johnson. Yeah, I was looking at Eric Johnson. I just assumed that was the Johnson we're talking about. Jack Johnson

played 74 games in that season for the Avs. There you go. Jack Johnson. I think they might have got him from Pittsburgh. Maybe that's what it was. Interesting. Maybe he's mad at Pavel Frantzouz, who's no longer Frantzouz is still there, right? Yes, long-term injured preserver.

Probably mad at him for that. there's there's a lot of burakowski who plays for someone else i don't even know what place this man is making so surprising this is the last team i would think this would come from well i guess the last thing is probably the lightning second last team i'll be honest um lightning i would expect it just because they've been together so long maybe we should expect it more from the lightning and the avalanche types because they've been together so long and they hold themselves to the highest standard i think on a team that is middling and they're they don't they've never won they've never competed deep into the playoffs they probably don't think this

like taves probably isn't so upset if he's on a middle of the pack team but this is a team with stanley cup aspirations and he knows every night we need to be thinking like that it's the same thing john cooper talked about earlier in this year when he was complaining about the compete level and he's like is this a game 34 or is this what i'm gonna get on game one of the playoffs so these guys who are like we gotta buy in they know that your effort in the middle of the year in the middle of december needs to be at a level where i can see that it's gonna work for the playoffs i have a question and i'm gonna go nba on this one kobe bryant interesting uh is you know known for a lot of things uh but one of the things that he's most known for is his competitiveness

and his intensity on the court the mamba mentality that's right and there's been books written about it and you know his trainer was also michael jordan's trainer i've read that book it's a good book um and i wonder and i i remember this towards the in the waning years of kobe's era there were players that could hack it on the lakers and then there were players that could not hack it on the lakers just like with the bulls right when michael jordan was super intense the thing was that i think kobe didn't retire at his peak like michael did so we saw the waning years where his body just wasn't holding up anymore and i'm not saying that's where mckinnon's at or tase or whatever is it possible that that message has or that type of

intensity and the way you go about it has a time frame and i'm not saying that the colorado avalanche are past that but sometimes you can take when you when you live on that edge you can take it too far and you can get people to go you know what fuck off but then i don't want you on my team well you can't match my salary triple hard salary cap league good luck yeah well fuck off like if you can't match my intensity and all i'm trying to do is win get out of here it's it's If you want to bring up the Lakers, Dwight Howard. Dwight Howard couldn't hang on the Lakers because he didn't care about basketball enough,

and Kobe hated it, and he ate candy. Yeah. Lots and lots of candy. Lots and lots of candy. Are the Flyers not following the exact trajectory that we expect out of John Tortorella? Yes. The beginning season where he comes in and he goes,

I am John God-starred Tortorella, and I'm going to scratch all of you. i don't care if you have 70 points and also i don't like interesting things to happen in hockey you will get down and you will block shots and you will eat wood and other things that make you tough and next season we will see an improvement well look at what always happens look at that yeah eat wood eat bark i don't like that eat tree bark that makes me uncomfortable too eating wood no it's just good stuff i don't think we can title the show eat wood i don't think sticks and branches things of that nature and we all go oh john that's ridiculous and then next

year you go gosh darn it they're in a playoff spot yeah yeah that's what happened and he yelled his way into the playoff spot yeah but then what happens is around year four ish after a couple years of success people go that's enough John and then they don't play very well and he gets fired and then he goes to the next team where we repeat the cycle of I can't believe another team hired John Tortorella he's a culture coach yeah they improved oh my god they're in the final four oh my god they're in the first round and oh my god they kind of stink and oh my god and they and they can never score never score the watching the John Tortorella show like the reruns aren't very good you can't watch it over and over and over again like the office eventually you're like

i don't want to see any more of this this stuff i've seen this time and time again and then you go get a new show and there's a new season you're like oh it's good and then there's more reruns you're like nah so what i'm saying my point with tase and the bringing up of the kobe thing is maybe there how many people did you go through there that have been there since the cup there have been a lot of there's a lot yep it feels like it's shake up time i feel like they did there's a lot of new like even though there's a lot of the core is still there but like ross colton like that's a pretty big deal miles wood they made a big commitment to uh ryan johansson's a pretty big deal they have new guys and here's the funny part is they have

this crazy sense of we gotta be up here and they got ryan johansson well ryan johansson is an extraordinarily talented hockey player who is known for did not work under under uh uh torts in columbus it worked out okay in nashville but he's not exactly known for being mr intensity could it be a challenge to a guy on the team who was on the on the cup winning team who's maybe younger like a bowen byram i has byron not been playing well i could see something like that i'm throwing it out there yeah i mean as long as we're throwing names out there it's not like we've nailed it i feel like what needs to happen and i don't know how they do this they need to nazem cadre and the avalanche need to be reunited it's wrong that he's not playing there anymore he he he needs

to get out a calgary and and and error uh the avalanche could use him again cadre and huberto to the Avs for nothing. 75% retained for a fifth. For the Avalanche to pay for a quarter of their arena. Yes. I honestly think there may be... Listen, sometimes

this stuff's dealt with in the dressing room, but we got the Mikko Rantanen quote, and now we got the Devontae's quote. There's some unrest in the hills, and I'm just wondering if there's not a big trade coming. And I think we should be less surprised that it comes out of that dressing room now that we've talked

it through i think these teams that want to win the stanley cup are held to a higher standard and the reason you're successful is because you have guys like taves who are willing to say this kind of stuff can you imagine they had done an amazon prime documentary about the avalanche and and then they lost in the first round nathan mckinnon be like leave it all in leave it all in i want them to see our failure so we never do this again yeah that would be that would be an avalanche attitude and i fucking love that yeah the journalist who criticize ranting in is who dude that'd be great it'd be amazing two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer that's why every step and dollar raised matters on september 19th join

thousands in toronto for the princess margaret cancer foundation walk challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. New from Nespresso. Blend wellness into your coffee routine with the Coffee Plus range, infused with functional benefits. Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins, like Coffee Plus B12 to help support immune function and Coffee Plus B6 to keep your day moving. Or go with the flow and choose Ginseng Delight, our new double espresso with ginseng extract whatever lies ahead don't change your morning let your morning change you discover

coffee plus on nespresso.com by the way as we were recording uh jeremy or yogurt 51 years old is playing uh on the second line right wing for cladno a team that owns and he just picked up a primary assist wow okay so jeremy are 35 years and counting as a professional hockey player i'm gonna clap adam you have the clip in front of you are the guys defending him trying or is this a putin playing hockey so no they are trying like like it's again it's the big ice yeah and so the gap control is a little bit wonky to watch when you're used to watching north american hockey the the defenseman doesn't grab them quickly enough but it's a good pass okay it's a good pass the putin hockey video is the funniest video of all time it is oh my god it is dude's being like i

don't want to go in a hole i've read i'm not playing defense i've read entire articles about that and the political effect it had on russia him playing hockey yes and why he decided in his 50s to learn to play hockey because it was all part of this mask you know those there's those shots about of him on a horse with his shirt off shirt off imagine joe biden working riding a horse with a shirt yeah or him working out in his home gym there's like rudo there's a masculinity thing that he was trying to impart and hockey was a part of that. It's a whole political thing for him.

It's wild. The way they do politics in Russia is so bonkers and the way they run that country is so bonkers. Anyway, we won't get into it. Devontae's love that. Rod Brindamore.

Is there a case for Rod Brindamore to be in the Hall of Fame already? And here's what I'm going to throw at you, okay? I believe he... Oh, this tweet was deleted. That's stupid. Oh, yeah, because it was wrong. Oh, it was wrong.

It was wrong. That's hilarious. So the tweet was... was I think he's the first person to ever play 1,000 NHL games and coach 400. That's not true. That's not true, but 1,000 games and coaching 400. Forget that he's not the first. I believe the actual thing is first player to play 1,400 and coach 400.

Which is amazing. He's like top 20 all-time in games played, something like that. He's way up there. So let's ask that question then. Forget the tweet being wrong. This question still stands. Do you put Rod Brindamore in the Hall of Fame right now? He's won a cup as a player.

The Carolina Hurricanes have struggled a bit out of the gate, but they've been a perennial threat to win the cup since he's been the head coach there. Is it time? If I'm mistaken, you don't get both. You go in as a player based on your resume as a player, or you go in as a coach based on your resume as a coach. You don't get to combine the two for your Hall of Fame eligibility.

That's how I understand it. Now, as a player, I would still feel like he'd have an outside shot. He was a very, very good player. And you look at his stat lines, and stat lines are amazing, but what you need to look at is Rod Brindamore, the centerman that allowed other centermen to be themselves. He was the guy that was defensively responsible and could score and was in insane shape as well.

Great with the Flyers, great with the Hurricanes, just an animal. you know how um every generation has someone who was always in the selkie conversation yeah rod brendamore he was so often in the selkie conversation he won it back to back years in 06 and 07 and in 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 in like 10 different seasons he was nominated or voted on for something he came within 16 games of playing 1500 games in the nhl that's he had he also came within 16 points of having 1200 points that's a lot of points i feel like that's a hall of favor right that's a hall of favor what and for a defensive center yes who that's what he was known for i no one wants to hear this and i don't feel good saying it but you know who kind of screws up

a lot of Hall of Fame conversations for me is Paul Correa. He was a point-of-game player during the dead puck era. So that's extremely hard. So should he get into the Hall of Fame based on that and his career was cut short due to injuries?

Yeah, I'll definitely hear that argument. But Rod Brindamore also played during that era. He won the first post-lockout cup as captain. He has two individual trophies and the Stanley Cup, like when you start adding things on top of each other, there's no reason to have him out of the hall. How many goals does he have?

452. Very few players, and I talked about this in Dangled Data, a video that you can find on the SDPN YouTube channel. It is so rare to hit 450 plus goals. it's even more rare to hit 450 plus goals in the role that rod brindamore played there are a couple guys from like those 90s flyers teams that should be in the hall and aren't rod brindamore is one of them and my line mate john leclaire that dude should be in the hall man yeah his numbers are nuts and another guy with a cup yep yep another guy with a cup this is why

uh you know some people a little lazily rely on yeah but he doesn't have a cup for uh hockey hall of fame arguments it does kind of matter because there are guys with a cup and hall of fame conversation numbers that don't get in and it sucks that you can't combine well he was one of the best players in the league for a very long time it's certainly at his role and he's also one of the best coaches in the league for a long time and you can't combine them and be like this person has contributed enough to hockey right he warrants a spot in the hockey hall of fame that's kind of what i was thinking yeah but they're different categories if i remember right but like with rod brindamore and being a hall of famer i think people need a more recognizable the voters

need more recognized the context of the way he played in his game because yeah if the points aren't there you have to realize that he played a defensive role then like his shorthanded points are 10th all-time like it's 10th all-time in shorthanded points and amongst players with 1500 face-offs he is uh first all-time in face-off percent wow because that's his role on the team and if you take into the context of brindamore's career and the way he was deployed to play i think he probably should be in the hall of fame yeah but jesse i mean like here look at it this way he only had 260 nhl goals in 1300 games he never had a single 30 goal season his career high in points was let me see it was 57 like i don't know if oh i'm sorry that's hockey hall of famer

gee carbino um my bad sorry i was talking about the wrong player okay what yeah what those types players who play that role and carbino played that role do get into the hall of fame for playing that role his numbers are not hall of fame numbers yeah he's got the cups he got the cups he played for the habs pre-1994 like okay yeah he got the cups um he won three selkie trophies rod's got two rod the bodge should be in if and and you know rod was also in tough because yerry letnan was a threat for that selkie every year every year yerry letnan last winger to win the selkie it was he was often like top 10 ish uh in selkie voting he he should be in um you should be able to combine i also think also if he can't combine is there a chance based on his record so far as a

coach he wins a couple cups which we all think something there's going to be a cup eventually for rod brindamore as a coach i think can he go in twice no why not i mean if they're different categories based on the way yes you know what damn it you sold me not yet he's not he's not earned it as a coach yet no and i think he would say that but he's a that's a double threat man no but when it comes to voting you know one day his name will come across someone's desk and they'll be like i give it to him doesn't matter what category he goes in as i want him to go in twice i love rod put it this way i think he's a great coach but it'll be difficult for him to have a better coaching career

than his playing career because his playing career was so good. He should be in the Hall. With Bryn Mawr, the coaching doesn't add to his player resume, but the international

hockey contribution is due. He has a world championship gold and he was on the 98 Olympic team in Italy, which wasn't a good team. That was in Japan. Japan. Oh, sorry.

Italy, I think, was the world championships where he won. The 98 team in Japan, which wasn't good, but he made the olympic team which is a show of a standard of his play at the time compared to his peers he was on the nagano team eh yeah no the nagano team just ran into hashik they were a good team yeah they just ran into fucking prime hashik and their head coach didn't put wayne gretzky out

in the shootout unforgivable uh hey uh nolan patrick has officially retired from the nhl after four seasons he's 25 years old he was drafted second overall in the 2017 draft and i can remember because he was a guy that that they were saying like because after the mcdavid and matthews drafts which included eichel and linea and so many other great players and marner and um this was the draft where people were like yeah we're less excited about this this kid nolan patrick this kid nico he sure they could go one they could go to not jeff merrick he came on our show back when we recorded in that tiny room in your apartment that was basically all glass yeah and uh he was talking about this 16 year old kid playing for the brandon weakings and it was nolan patrick

right that was years and years i remember his head coach going on the radio and saying yeah he won't be ready for the nhl in the first year like he's a anyway in 222 games he had 32 goals 45 assists uh it seems as though he um uh he's going to be working as a skills specialist um and just terrible injury luck yeah really that is sort of sometimes life life is luck sometimes just way the way the cookie crumbles i mean good for him like a lot of people don't make that decision in time you know he's how old is he 25 yeah oh my god like that's that's a young man like i wasn't even married when i was 25 i didn't i didn't uh i'm still living with my parents and this guy has had an entire nhl career i believe with enough

games to make nhlpa pension um yes no good for him for making this decision for his health he could always come back if he wanted to who knows um you know but it's it's good uh it's good that he's making this decision for his health and i'm sure as a guy who went super high in the draft there's plenty of ways for him to work within hockey that you know he could become a coach or gm or whatever but also there is a market for people that are young players who need mentors and they use that mentors great young great players and navigating things it's not just the agent i went second overall and i'm retired by 25 that is a fascinating story i would listen to that guy talk every single day of the week about that journey like i think he's got a long career in

hockey no matter he sounds like he wants to do skills work yeah but no matter what he wants to do if it's mentorship or coaching just listening to that journey even at the young age of 25 and as he grows and gets perspective on this portion of his life like nolan patrick is a very interesting person i think who's sorry did it say who he was doing the skills work with no did you say oh no doesn't say that um i don't know i don't believe and i know he was with the golden knights organization this spring even though he doesn't get his name on the cup he did get to kind of hoist the cup yeah because his last season that he played was the 22 season he played 25 games with the golden knights yeah and they didn't return it does suck it does suck that draft

though that 2017 draft just killers all around it it's petterson it's macar it's jason robertson it's nico he sure marty natchez uh robert thomas josh norris like it's a really good draft nobody tanked for yeah nobody was like excited about it there's some great players there wow mira Heiskanen, Gabe Velarde who we were just talking about the other day. What a great game. Damn, what a great draft. You're right. Wow. Even middle status

come into his own. Hedl's having a good little year. I like it. Did you say Robert Thomas? Damn. Nick Suzuki? I didn't even mention that. Drafted by Vegas. Now, Stephen Ellis who was a writer for Daily

Face Off and an all-around good person. He said, if you want to feel old, There were multiple Team Canada players that said watching this player at the World Juniors was one of their favorite tournament memories growing up. Bedard. Bedard. No, I'm kidding. What do you think it is, Steve? This player at the tournament had a standout World Junior Tournament for a particular team.

And these are Team Canada players, so you can assume the Canadian identity. obviously. I'll give you that. What player had a standout tournament that these guys who were 16, 17, 18 years old would have been? Wow, what a memory that was. Alexi Lafreniere. You are correct.

Who is a literal baby. Lafreniere is not an old man. What year was that? Was it 2019? It was like five minutes ago, man. It just happened. 2019. Team Team Canada 2019 IIHF.

No! Amazing. That's good. That's not amazing. That's what those kids say. They watch. Yeah. Now, when you're 16, 17, 18, four years is a long time.

That's so long. I freak out a little bit when you hear about like 16, 15. Wasn't there a 14-year-old playing in the WHL the other day? Yeah, I brought it up on the show. Yeah. That's crazy. And Adam, you're not even right about the year. i'm not the year lafreniere went off was the 2020 world jesus where he had 10 points in five games

like that was like oh my god what who is this lafreniere kid that's 2020 oh my god steve's got his toque over his head for everybody what is it oh my god what is it he's What is it? What is it? It's the world keeps spinning, man. Does it? It doesn't stop. It doesn't stop.

Oh, God. That's so bad. These kids looked up to this Lafreniere in 2020. Like just before. I guess it would have been just before COVID. Yes. Right before COVID. In the before time?

Right before. In the long long ago? Or do they count it like the other one? No, it's 2018 into 19 is the 2019. So this is the 2024 World Juniors coming up. Oh, really? it's awarded in 2024 so it starts that's how they count it that's how they count i'm always confused so it'd be 19 but the world junior was it was 19 into 20 yeah right you know who does

that stupid to the nfl because like 95 of their season is played in one year but then the little bit of the playoffs in the super bowl is obviously in february and i was i'm always confused like okay which championship is this right well they also don't name the year they're like super bowl 47 and i'm like yeah when did it start i don't know what year was man i don't know hey i know you don't know the difference between imperial and metric but we're gonna put this in roman numerals i know they gotta stop that too so they gotta stop stop it um but like this should be the 2023 world juniors no but it's the 2024 well it's awarded in 2024 tell tell tsa is the world championship which is what it's called

is in 2020 get Duffy on the phone I want him on the show get James on the phone I would love as the O-Dog likes to call him tell him to fix the damn championship year this is the 2023 world yeah you know power too yeah oh yeah Jimmy I'm calling Jim

but I call him James he's on the phone Jimmy Mr. Jim um yeah so last story but we can do a press conference or we can wrap it's up to you guys we can definitely but uh aaron rogers it's been reported will not be playing this year and i just wanted to know if you guys had any thoughts on modern medicine and how it failed aaron rogers this year oh i knew it it was what was weird about that was that uh we all knew he wasn't gonna play and he was like nah but maybe and and it just felt

like because zach wilson was getting a ton of attention it did feel like aaron rogers needed it to be about him a little bit oh adam how could you and the vast majority of other people paying attention say that what are you that's all there's a lot of silence that's all i gotta say jesse what do you have to say listen what do you think about that he gets so much air time that he doesn't deserve and he just says the same thing over and over again and it's like yeah i'm not gonna play again this season and we're all like yeah i know aaron like that's not it's not news that is several months ago's news and then you're breaking it now his coach had to confirm that too there's there's no real shot that aaron rogers is going to play this season

aaron rogers loves attention and the thing that he's he loves to do most is is do things that get attention so dragging this out and making like people believe that there's a possibility that he might play was his whole thing for attention and now it's over because there's no shot he's out.

Is he a Jet next year? Yeah, 100%. Okay, all right. I just wondered if he'd want to play on that artificial turf again after literally what it did to him.

No, it wasn't the turf. It wasn't the turf? The turf didn't do it. Everybody blame the turf. It's ridiculous. Let's do the press conference. Okay. Two in five Canadians

will hear the words you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, 19th join thousands in toronto for the princess margaret cancer foundation walk challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer register today at pmcf

walk.ca the presser s d p the steve dangle press conference this is from bonesy i thought it was a little it's a little jab give you a little chuckle let's have it boner bonesy says how often have you said man i wish ryan reeves was in the lineup tonight i'm stuck at zero times uh okay opening night the second night because that was the one after opening night the third night that's probably it maybe the game against the bruins the first one where he did nothing you like this one maddie sure but ryan reeves is a good one no man like he's in it for the reeves slander okay here's where i'm not loving the conversation though he's hurt yeah like but the i think it's it speaks volumes that you do not miss him

yeah but like if austin matthews was injured we'd be like ah you know what be nice to have austin tonight yeah but should this team be made or broken by a fourth line enforcer being out of the lineup no but i think i think the more important conversation we were having before the beginning of the year is it can't just be him like we saw with kyle clifford and we saw with michael bunting and we saw with wayne simmons he's still around the team and matt martin yeah and and i think it's not that ryan reeves was going to solve the problem but there was an issue on this team in my opinion of of toughness and responding and they were told to be on to be fair to them they were told not to respond physically and a quiet bench too and a quiet bench and they

and they were embarrassed by the bruins early i mean reeves getting a couple fights in the first two games was great and then you know reeves didn't play great the rest of the time we kind of didn't expect him to but we didn't know it was going to be that bad but the other guys started to step up i love i think i again and i've said this a few times toronto loves a tough hockey team all the t's in there toronto loves a tough hockey team they want a team that scores a bunch of goals and which which leaf management focused way too much on the toughness and not enough on the goals for like 20 years yes uh now we focused a ton on the goals we get lots of goals now we've added some toughness still getting lots of goals fun team to watch the leafs are a fun team every night

except for a couple this season you know what uh put it this way i think this encapsulates trauma pretty well the uh like the ron wilson years slash randy carlisle years those were not great years there was some up there was mostly down there were players who were way on the tough side who all the nerds hated and all the olds loved then there were players on the skill side phil kessel for example who all the nerds loved and a lot of the olds hated you know who everyone loved clark macarthur and like that's the type of player and that's going to sound ridiculous but that's the type of player the city loves yes he can score and if you fuck with him he'll beat the shit out of you and he did that a few times he made himself room go look up his fight with yaroslav

spot check he broke his face he broke his orbital bone it was like it was like watching a guy get mauled by a tiger and you're like clark macarthur did that like i've said this for years like william nylander is like a greek god and one day i would love him to grab someone and throw some punches just for the shock of him actually maybe winning a fight he might get his ass kicked you do sort of need to know what you're doing you can't just be strong but like he's an ox matthews is an ox there are players shorter and lighter than mitch marner that fight with some regularity like travis connect me is mitch marner with less fucks to give i love him and ever so slightly more facial hair but not by a wide margin neither of them can baby faces both of them both of them

uh it's in again none of those three guys tavaris included actually are doing the fighting but more of this team is willing to at least get involved physically this is from shawnee shawnee says goals since december 19th alexander ovechkin zero tristan jari one man people got on us for that for that ob talk uh it's december 20th we had that chat uh and then we put it up on i guess tiktok or whatever people got so mad about ob fans got so bad i'm like has he scored since no even with our jinx he had in the last month tristan jari has outscored alexander ovechkin they're gonna need somebody to set him up and shawnee shawnee's question i haven't gotten to it yet uh sorry my question will jari be able to continue outscoring ovechkin

no i don't think so no i don't think so i can't i didn't know he's got a full month without scoring a goal like the that's insane hilarious thing about ovechkin over the last half decade plus is his ability to just look at what the age curve is supposed to be and go no and now what's happening is like just that that line is going to go straight down unless something corrects itself and again if he goes on some sort of run zero people will be shocked zero people will be shocked but if this keeps up do you know how much easier it is to catch gretzky when you can expect at least 30 or 40 goals even 25 yep 25 all right three seasons and i'm there if he's scoring like this there's a really good chance he never gets there one of the things that stands out to me

about a season so far is the number of power play goals which sits at one that's the all-time leader in power play goals that's a man who has feasted on the power play more than anybody else in the history of time and he's been unable to do it this season all right when's the next time the caps play the least just so i know when he's busting out of the slum when he gets a four goal game yeah 100 yeah just so i know i'll take a look look at i don't think it's soon capitals leafs the leafs play i think it's nine games against the blue jackets march 20th oh my god what march 20th the leafs are at the caps it's gonna happen there you go it's gonna happen bring up the cap schedule please i just because i want to know

at some point i know you're trying to win points in the standings you need to dedicate a game to getting him a goal yes yes right so who do they got coming up they got the islanders blue jackets back to back tonight and tomorrow blue jackets second half of a back-to-back none of you should have the puck at all during that game that's a very good point i think that's the let's try and get ovation going and passes to ovi to ovi passes to ovi because oh she with it to ovi after thursday's game against columbus you have tampa then christmas break then the rangers islanders preds so go into january because like i mean rack up points christmas break is coming you don't want to lose momentum man there are some struggling goalies in that stretch bud

look at pittsburgh jari's been good i know he's been good oh that's the battle of the jari versus ovechkin goal race january 2nd jari has a chance to double his lead let's go the devils let's go you can score on the devils are a good team that would that would be incredible who is gonna score more goals the hurricane january 2nd they will be our graphics tnt jari is currently in the lead wow the hurricanes are there oh january is an interesting opportunity to feast oh yeah dude oh yeah like at least in terms of scoring goals i'm not talking about winning hockey games pass ovi the puck do you understand you get him going you get possibly the greatest goal scorer of all time one of the best goal scorers alive today he was still that like a

few months ago yes and he just suddenly stopped doing that dedicate a game to giving the puck to should we put money on columbus on thursday ovi gets a goal no no columbus is gonna have to make a comeback because no wait they want they just dropped nine on the sabers yeah it was crazy so for sure not columbus yeah i don't think he gets a goal thursday great night that's i think steve outlined it well second night of a back-to-back your your legs are a little tired so let's just all stand around and try and feed Ovi against a weaker Columbus team. He doesn't move anyway.

Do the Columbus Blue Jackets take a lot of penalties? Not that I'm aware of. If he's on the power play a lot, you're toast. Dude, the Caps should have 25 shots in that game and 23 of them should be from Alexander Ovechkin. Get him a goal. Get him a fucking goal.

Ovi anytime goal prop against the Blue Jackets might be something we gotta look at. Dude. feed put a two dollar two dollar steve i like that feed him the puck and like at this point just be like stand in front i'll shoot one off your butt that's what he means but like those lucky goals are the usually the ones that break you out slumps right yeah yes and that's when you go remember when marner was in a slump and then he scored two yeah and the first celebration he went

and then the second celebration he goes yeah and that's marner imagine ovi and marner didn't go a month without scoring yeah but ov goals are oxygen and that dude's turning blue but when he starts scoring watch out oh my god what he could what does he have five he could easily end the season with 30 he could have 20 by all-star no one would be shocked yeah absolutely no one would be shocked get him a goal yeah five so how is this this hard how many assists does he have 12 that's not bad yeah it's not great ov is currently one two three four five six on the caps in goal scoring he's tied with koozie with five goals he should can you name the four guys above uh kuznetsov and ovechkin on goal scoring for the washington capitals on the show tom wilson one he's tjo

she's got 10 yeah timothy jimothy timothy jimothy no he only has two goals kuznetsov I just said they were tied. I'm sorry. Yeah. You weren't listening. What? We got three more guys to go. Who's still there?

We can't end the show until you name these three players. What about John Carlson? Incorrect. John Carlson has one goal. 14 assists, though. What? McMichael. Connor McMichael.

Six goals. There you go. There you go, Steve. Did you see Tyler Tucker the other day? Yes. I got into a fight and he was a subject of who's that guy. Who he played for. Who he played for, sorry.

Yeah, all my mentions blew up. I love when that, and that was like, two days after that episode, Tyler Tucker makes news. Like, fuck us. Like, every single time. So funny. All right, you got two guys left. One is the leading goal scorer.

On the caps. They've been such a weird team. We've talked about him. Charlie Lindgren. No, he was involved in something. He was involved. Involved in something. What was he involved in?

What's his name? Involved in like a fight or a suspension? An incident. I am drawing a complete blank. Me too. It was Adam Wilde who incorrectly. Oh, the rookie. Marush Nishanko.

No, it was Adam. No, no, no. Adam Wilde incorrectly placed this man in a knee-on-knee incident. oh it was uh connor uh not connor no no strong dylan strong dylan's so ryan strong ryan strong had the knee on me and for like three minutes into the segment adam wilde kept calling him dylan strong i know but you corrected yourself and there's one more player former detroit red wing now a cap rana no no that's the other way who was the guy that mantha mantha anthony mantha That was brutal.

The leading goal scorers on the Caps go Dylan Strom with 12, Tom Wilson with 10, Anthony Manta with 7, Connor McMichael with 6, Koozie with 5, Ovi with 5. That's how absolutely cracked Austin Matthews is. If you take the top two goal scorers on the Caps and combine them, they'd be three goals shy of Matthews. Unbelievable. When people say he's not worth his contract, which happens all the time at parties where amount i'm like you guys like i'm not i can't i'd have to start from zero i have to start from

the end god created the sun i know i know if he's amazing the steve dangle podcast follow the guys on twitter at steve underscore dangle at adam w y l d e and at jesse blake connection complete Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer.

Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.