The Steve Dangle Podcast - You HAB to Believe It | December 15, 2025

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast: 00:00 The Fowler Bus 04:15 OH NO the Penguins 34:30 Minnesota Wild Stanley Cup odds 42:30 CJ joins to talk Quinn Hughes and Leafs! 1:27:00 Oilers embarrass the Leafs 2:06:00 Sabres finally fire Kevyn Adams Visit this episode's sponsors: Get an exclusive 15% discount on Saily eSIM data plans! Download Saily app and use code DANGLE at http://saily.com/dangle Get 20% off your first order with JENNY BIRD by visiting jenny-bird.ca and using code DANGLE at checkout. Visit https://www.skyscanner.ca/ to book your next trip today! Skyscanner connects millions of travellers, in 52 countries and 37 languages, to more than 1200 trusted travel partners so they can find the best flight, hotel or car hire options. Add flair to your game-day attire with official lululemon x Fanatics NHL Sports apparel from Fanatics! Visit https://www.fanatics.com/ to wear your pride on your sleeve. Feel “too young” for stiff knees or a tight hip after sports? You're not alone. Genacol offers natural, clinically proven joint care solutions featuring their exclusive AminoLock® Collagen to help reduce joint pain and maintain mobility. And if inflammation is part of your everyday life, Genacol Anti-Inflammatory brings added support with Turmeric Curcumin and BioPerine®. Take care of your joints now. Your future self will thank you! For all the odds, T’s and C’s, and to learn more visit ⁠https://betmgm.com/DANGLE⁠. 19+ to wager. Any opinion expressed is not advice, a promise or suggestion that increases the chance of winning. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact ConnexOntario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Watch all episodes of The Steve Dangle Podcast here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLk7FZfwCEidkgWpSiHVkYT7HrIzLPXlY Watch clips of The Steve Dangle podcast here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLk7FZfwCEieOJuIrqWyZPWSIJtVMCbLz Buy SDP merch https://sdpnshop.ca/ Check out https://sdpn.ca/events to see The Steve Dangle Podcast live! Watch hockey with us! Live on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLk7FZfwCEifCTX0vkKEaGg9otrW4Zl2k Subscribe to the sdpn YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@sdpn?sub_confirmation=1Join Subscribe to SDP VIP!: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0a0z05HiddEn7k6OGnDprg/join Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/thestevedanglepodcast Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sdpvip/subscribe - Follow us on Twitter: @Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram: @SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Join us on Discord: https://discord.com/invite/MtTmw9rrz7 For general inquiries email: [e-mail] Reach out to https://www.sdpn.ca/sales to connect with our sales team and discuss the opportunity to integrate your brand within our content! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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S-D-P-P. The Steve Dangle Podcast with your hosts, Steve Dangle, Adam Wilde, and Jesse Blake. Let's go! Wow.

Well, it was quite the weekend and it started Friday night. Steve Dangle and Jesse Blake did a quick recap on the Quinn Hughes trade. And we're going to have an even bigger quick recap with Christopher Johnson.

Actually, it's not going to be quick at all. It's going to be a bit of a segment. Chris? um uh of the christopher johnston show you ever heard of that uh that will be coming up in about 20 minutes here uh in the meantime though there's a couple of things that we got to hit first and it's not going to start with the leafs we're going to start with the pittsburgh penguins and i know already that people are pissed at me because because we didn't talk about jacob fowler getting his first career NHL win

against Pittsburgh. That's great, but it wasn't that. I was riding the Fowler bus real hard and Adam put his Ford F-150 right in front of it and derailed the bus.

Listen, it's good for any weather, any terrain, including derailing Jesse. No, listen, Jesse, it's so funny that you told the Jacob Fowler story last week before he got his first start

because it's exactly what Hockey Night in Canada did and they showed the clip of him. Actually? Yeah, and they showed the clip of him going like listen like i was not made this team and it pissed me off and i was like i'm watching this kid talk like this in his interview with i think it's from the crave show the the what do they call the montreal show what is it the blue the rebuild it doesn't matter it

doesn't matter they're behind anyway you have to believe it you have that's what it's called that was really good uh it's really good on the off the top of your head to believe uh but i'm i'm watching this kid who's like 17 or 18 years old talking to that that's the title of the show by the way um and he's like he's like tony robbins yeah but in the non-grifting way he is literally a he is like i was like oh my god i would run through a wall for this this not even a man described a scout talking about him and teared up yeah i love competitiveness because i love sports I love competitiveness and I love athletes who are the ultra competitive amongst the ultra competitive. Yes. And Jacob Fowler seems that way. That's why I'm so behind this kid. I think

he's got it. I think he's got the right mentality and you start with that and then you build down from there and then you hopefully can back up your skills with the mentality. But I think he's a winner. Oh, man, he sure seemed like it. Anyone. How about that? Yeah. But what I really wanted to talk about was the Pittsburgh Penguins. Don't worry, you're not getting away. Pittsburgh Penguins who tie into jacob fowler's first win because patrick waugh ken dryden and carrie price all got their first career starts and first career wins against the pittsburgh penguins jacob fowler also did that what like how does history just repeat itself in those ways to be fair ken dryden and patrick waugh played the penguins pre-mario lemieux and everybody beat the penguins

pre-Mario Lemieux. The Bluegwins. Yeah, they were the Bluegwins and they were awful. They still count in the W column. Sure did.

Wouldn't have been that hard. They were awful until Mario showed up. Now, Pittsburgh Penguins this season off to a hot start but this weekend

is crazy because they were, you know, this is a team ultimately, if Pittsburgh wants to make the playoffs, they should beat

the San Jose Sharks and as a Leaf fan, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. L-M-A-O. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Woo! Anyway. The Sharks got

10% of their wins last season against the Leafs. Yeah, and they don't play in the same conference and guess what this this season the Leafs also just recently lost to them. So I'm saying this knowing full well that that happened blowing a lead home. So they're back to back at home and

the other team they're playing is Utah. Another team like Pittsburgh had a hot start and then has fallen off a cliff a little bit. Yeah, right a lot of fantasy darlings in October are now just kind of guys i'm needing jj peterka to pick it back up again and desperate for yeah to do that remember schmaltz scoring three points a game yeah it's weirdly unsustainable wow and it's so

weird that he's now not featured as one of the prominent ufas next year but so here's the here's what's so interesting about what happened because i i turn on the game i literally turned on the third period of the penguin sharks game because we had just got home from seeing santa claus wow and uh and my daughter was like coloring my wife was working i'm like well hockey night canada is not on yet but it's the game before that so i'll just watch the third period and imagine my shock and surprise as the pittsburgh penguins go from five one to five two to five three to five four to five five and lose the game and then the next day yeah are up three nothing and then it's three one and three two and three three and they lose in overtime and what's crazy

about this is they both happened in the third period on back-to-back nights at home at home And they get two points out of it. Yeah. Hey, good for them. It's not a good league. Can I give you a stat? Give it to us. This is from Adam Gretz.

When leading by three goals or more after two periods this season, the Pittsburgh Penguins are 2-1-2. That's three losses. The rest of the NHL is 73-0. What? That is psychotic. Nobody in the league has given up a third period lead after leading by three goals or more,

and the Pittsburgh Penguins have done it three times. I'd love to know who the goalies were for all five. I know Seelov's was, what, two of them? I think so. Yeah. Maybe Jari. I don't know. I'd have to go back and look at it.

Hey. Wow. There's a play in particular I would like to highlight, though. Did you guys see the John Klingberg goal, and did you guys see the celebration you know which one i'm talking about oh my god did you see john clingberg undress sydney crosby like it's 2018 vintage john clingberg is back listen crosby is nowhere even in the same continent as cooked he's not i haven't seen anyone tug on superman's cape that hard in a long time look at this celebration john klingberg and

macklin celebrini looking at sydney crosby now john klingberg has seven and seven by the way seven goals seven assists now you're talking about a fantasy darling you know what's just as fun as looking at klingberg's face the reactions of the pens fans in the crowd you see this woman man here this person here i can't really tell but their hands over their face this guy hands in his face this person turning around to the person behind them what the fuck winter classic right next to crosby's head on the right side of his head this one hand lean back oh my goodness not again this is just a painting of a photo it's a that is you got to have that in your basement when you retire right that's got to be the photo of john

clinkberg's career is that one guy picking his nose i think he's scratching his face so perplexed yeah man he does look like he's picking his nose but you're right this is this hand over here that's all why i oughta how about buddy next to clingberg just he's already getting up this one good enough to leave me yeah i can't tell what jersey that is he's already getting up um uh no time no time to process no uh we're gonna raw dog life and just not not deal with this one jesse i sent you the nhl sort of recap thing i'd like to you i'd like to go over this because i think this is like we didn't see this john clingberg in toronto but he only played seven games right i don't think edmonton saw this john clingberg but it seems like san jose john clingberg

is having a good time and enjoying the fact that he's got a really fun young group that have admittedly been up and down this year sure but more up lately than down and you know you've got guys like colin graff stepping up and having a you know three goals in three nights really good you've got macklin standing up for will smith after a bad hit macklin celebrini thought someone awesome stuff crazy uh and then you have this and this is macklin celebrini setting up john klingberg but john klingberg makes this goal happen and what's so incredible is that this is a guy that was never supposed to play again oh i thought he was done a plane ride took him out people forget that a plane ride took him out we saw all three of us saw him play in person

leafs canucks then he took a flight with the team to sweden for the global series he never played another game in a leafs uniform his hip was messed up it's crazy plane ride surgery done and then doesn't come back until the following what early winter he didn't get surgery done for a while though and i remember a story uh being we're all like well klingberg swedish so he's gonna be in the lineup in sweden and then he wasn't and we're like okay he must be hurt but they're not really disclosing it and how like them yeah he was he was in the locker room like he was getting interviewed in a stall i remember all of that and that was he never played again never played again so yeah forgive me for thinking he was cooked jesse let's have a look at

this uh can we have a look at this play so this is by the way john clinkberg has been past the puck at this point you look at him he's at the blue line and he's got uh latang covering his direct route to the net and so he decides to go across the blue line and find you know gives macklin a little bit of space so he can pass it to him and the guy coming at him is one of the best defensive centers of all time and that's Sidney Crosby right it's one of the best players of all time just incredible one of the best players currently which I think is a part of this conversation right yeah so let's have a look at what happens next he uh Crosby's gapping up him as he should and Klingberg waits for him puts it through his legs and now he's got a wide open path to the net

And backhand pass to Celebrini, who does not shoot, gets it through another stick because the Penguins do come back to cover and Klingberg absolutely buries it. Unbelievable play. Unbelievable. Man, John Klingberg, like John Klingberg, John G, that John Klingberg, John Klingberg. like when he scored the that high bomb against the leafs to tie it i was like well yeah that's what he does yeah sure this crazy oh my goodness i had to check my calendar it's crazy yeah i didn't know what year it was i don't think it goes through oh it doesn't go through his legs it goes no it's worse it just lazily goes through the triangle there you go yeah just what are you

doing under his stick and uh outside of the uh outside of the foot there is that a miscommunication between him and latex no i think it's just him getting beat real real bad three on three it's a little tricky it's even worse jesse it's two on three because the sharks were changing it's a fantastic play by klingberg there's no doubt about it and the uh the little back and forth to underrated uh macklin going right back to him for the slapper the winner what a moment for sharks i don't know if the future's teal the present might be teal yeah it's sure seeming that way and it's funny because the sharks have like their top defensive pair is orlov klingberg right i actually thought i was surprised they weren't more in on uh the quinn hughes thing

because i feel like he would have completed their lineup but perhaps perhaps they need to be further along in the development yeah you can't first of all if i'm quinn hughes you're still committing to a rebuild there um and also uh some teams can pull that trade off without a guarantee of an extension the sharks can't no absolutely not you do that and he doesn't extend you've done it for no reason that side of the world seems like where he wants to be you know minnesota's i think family's in detroit yeah brother's playing over new jersey he's in minnesota that seems like a good little area that he could potentially resign in we always underestimate how far the how long the continent is it's far it's big it's a big continent um anyway long story short

incredible and then yesterday obviously against uh against the the utah mammoth oh yeah that's just the first one like freaking happens come on i i said this about like the the 16 17 leaves had a huge problem with this some of it is you just don't know how to defend and they were young and not good yeah on defense some of it is you just don't know how to defend i'm sorry the rest of the league is 73 and oh you're two one and two in these situations that's mental some of that is coaching could be could like is dan muse coaching in such an such a bad and irrelevant way like that the rest of the league is 73 and oh and the penguins are two one and two it's i think it's a conversation to be had because we played the clip what a week ago now when he got defensive about

the guys he put out there in those in those moments so one thing he got defensive about wasn't it yeah he didn't get defensive he got defensive having eric carlson out there and adam you questioned it is like these damn users up there saying these are the guys that got to trust in this situation no are these the guys you should be trusting maybe there's something with the deployment he's using or just not having the team playing up to the standard it should be just to hold on to fucking leads like like three on three is three on three like i don't want anyone to get caught up in you know that we're criticizing that goal no they allowed three goals and i think it was four minutes and three seconds like it was five one they allowed one but then they held the

for like another 10 minutes something like that three goals in four minutes and three seconds at home no that can't happen and it definitely can't happen thrice which it has by the way do you think that dan muse would sell one of his children for a win oh no oh who was that that was ryan warsawski from san jose listen or at least hold a third periodly oh no is that how they did it it might have been oh man how did they come back what we haven't been asking the right question we need to ask where his children oh no this was dan muse after the sharks uh comeback win on saturday sleep not an acceptable third period i'm sure in anybody's eyes i guess my

question is from your point of view what happened and why does this keep happening and what can you do to fix it before he answers they ask why does this keep happening it happens again less than 24 hours later i was about to ask you was this which one was this and they're like why does this keep happening and then he's gonna answer here but it already it has happened again by the time like with this we're existing here in this reality and he doesn't know it yet on his face he doesn't know that this is about to happen to him again please tell me the next words out of his mouth are i I guarantee this doesn't happen again. All right, here we go.

Yeah, it's that pause. The beats. Yeah, here we go. What happened and why does this keep happening and what can you do to fix it? One, two, three, four, five, six. Yeah, it's it's clearly and you can go back. not just this recent stretch but other games

that are in the year like obviously we have to be better closing out games like that doesn't need to be stated I think it's something different every time

I don't think it's always the exact same thing the common thread is we play one way for the great majority of the game and then sometimes it's

a one goal lead two goal lead like it's been three different situations but the common thread is four we get away from what works we start sometimes it's a little structurally we get away from what works sometimes we just

put ourselves in bad positions sometimes we've taken poor penalties in unopportune times giving them momentum and we haven't done nearly a good enough job of gaining that momentum back and we then look like a different team and so I'll take responsibility on this too there's been enough of them where I'm not believe me it's it's all this we have to be better with it on the ice i have to clearly be better because it's happened a number of times now and we'll find a way to it's just it's cost too many points up to the already all right all right that's a coach out of answers holy cow well he doesn't have the personnel man like listen the reality was in the carlson situation which he

was not on the ice for this one that's not the guy you put out there that is just not the guy you put out there and that is the at this point in eric carlson's career even at eric carlson's peak i'd be like don't put him out there that's not what he does put mark mathod out there that's what he does um i think with brett kulak added to the fold uh especially if they want to pump and dump his numbers you know get something significant for him at the trade deadline if they're not going to be in it uh man what a great opportunity for kulak to step in and be a bit more of a shutdown role for them but i for first off i listen to him and i'm like he sounds like a young mike babcock he's got a little of that accent that you're not really sure where it comes from

a little bit um but but beyond that your phone uh is this oh by the way is this him the next day yeah so if you want to hear the utah one it's the same suit but glasses now that's the only thing that's changed uh all right oh you want to hear oh yeah okay what are we waiting for dan muse after once again uh pittsburgh blows it dan just how do you fix this uh in terms of the uh multi-goal leads surrounding them late in the games oh it's even longer we gotta do it wrestling style every time they blow a lead the pause gets added a couple seconds they add a couple seconds of the pause you gotta do this wrestling style all right play it play it

play the games one two three four five six first of all like not a million years that i think we'd be back amazing okay here's uh here's that pause one more time no first of all like not not a million years that i think we'd be back here today 24 hours later having the exact same conversation and I'm probably going to sound like a broken record. I hear it. It has been a little bit different each game, but when we get away from it, we aren't able to get it back nearly as fast.

And so the chances that we're giving up, they're big ones, most of them. And so in today's game, I don't think even in the first two periods, It wasn't like it wasn't it wasn't the same as some of these previous games where I feel like we were carrying play. And then suddenly, you know, in the third period, like we kind of we don't. You know, today, I think we gave them a lot of chances, you know, from the start of the game. You know, Sergey made had to make a lot of saves.

Too many chances there in the third where their shooters are just given, you know, way too much time and space. and so we have we have to we're going to continue to work on those areas we're going to continue to work on those details if there's things that you know we're implementing that aren't working then we'll change those um but i've never seen something where it just feels like it's it's the same thing um coming in different ways it's you know our closing we have to we have to learn how to close games this group has to take a take that step obviously i i said it last night i say it Again, we're sitting right back here. I have to do a better job of fixing that, helping fix that.

Can I offer an idea? Because I don't know if Tristan Jari was in net for any of those three losses where they had a three-goal lead or more in the third period. They're 2-1 and 2 in those situations. uh it hasn't been discussed enough when it comes to the pittsburgh penguins that they might actually miss tristan jari um like listen someone gives you an offer like what edmonton did for jari you take it sure um you try to unload the guy last year you waved him you played him in the minors he has two years left at over five million dollars you do that deal 100 times out of

100 but this season jar is nine three and one he wins dan muse games or one dan muse games right yeah the other guys are one one and two and four four and six yeah but you got it you got to get out of from one of that contract while he's playing i know i can trade him i agree and And this is what I'm... And let Stuart Skinner try to. I definitely see a situation here where both goalies get better. Jari in Edmonton looked all right on Saturday.

And Skinner in Pittsburgh. And the bar is beneath the earth for both guys. jari's got to be better than oilers skinner and pickard and skinner's got to be better than murashov and silovs yep i think they're gonna be fine well and i think skinner's gonna do well and i think if if kyle's smart and i think he's very smart uh especially with trades man uh skinner's gonna be on another team headed to the playoffs if the penguins are not it maybe like muse is gonna play the wheels off him like one thing uh and it's it's weird how often i've encountered this in my time as a hockey adjacent person coaches will like like alien crazy calculations

planet planet swirling around their head when it comes to anything that's happening on the ice and then you ask them about the goalie and they're like stop the puck yeah you know why is this goalie struggling i don't know i don't give a shit stop the puck they don't know they don't care they want to put the goalie in there and if there's a shot on net they want it stopped so if i'm dan muse i'm like the guy you just traded stop pucks and our first two games without him we've blown yeah three and four goal leads in the third but there's like the reality is you do that trade a hundred times out of a hundred yes there's even if you lose every game from now until the rest

of the season, you still make that trade because you were supposed to suck. That's an asset you don't want for the next two years at that price. It's a perfect trade for Pittsburgh. It's revisionist history. If like Jari is incredible in Edmonton and they win the cup

and he continues to be incredible. You had a window to trade him because he's been playing well. The overwhelming evidence from the past two seasons is he He's not going to be able to do this at least sustained. Anyway,

this is the ultimate like window to sell high on a guy. Yes. He was on waivers last year to get Skinner who might be okay. Kulak who might be okay and will definitely net you a draft pick at the deadline and an actual draft pick that is a draft pick didn't seem possible last year. No, you had a window to get it done.

You got it done. organizationally you're happy to get it done as a fan you're happy they got it done uh you understand why they got it done but i think head coaches are way more in the moment and they're like you got rid of the one goalie who gives me saves i hate you yeah i i think dad muse can't think no i i think i guarantee you he thinks like that he's an nhl head coach look at the entire team and be like i wish i had jari back and he even if he thinks that he understands why you don't have him and he can't like look at this as a negative situation i think he understands it until the moment he gets behind the bench during a game i think dan news did his job steve yeah he

made jari tradable damn and he just got trade he just got signed this year dan muse and i think he's actually a good coach when i was there as much as the rangers you know whooped them in the third period uh that it's yeah developing pittsburgh was in it and and what would you see one of the five yeah i see it i saw uh one of the five losses you mean like okay uh they had three they've had a three goal leader more in the third period five times no it wasn't that it wasn't that no no they only scored two in the entire thing but i was there for ben kindles for school um i think what i saw was a team that felt a lot like what sheldon keefe's leafs were trying to look like a very free, freer flowing, quick moving, reload quick and get to the neutral zone and back into

the Rangers zone. I think he's a good coach. I think he's having, uh, I think he has mismatched personnel. I don't think that like, do you think that the meeting with Dan Muse and Kyle Dubas this summer was anything other than we got some bad contracts here. We're going to have to make some changes. Maybe we'll keep Sidney Crosby and Evgeny Malkin. Maybe we won't, but everybody else around them we got to find ways to make these guys look good and attractive and move them on and i think you know you're looking at that eric carlson's got a lot of points this year there's going to be a lot of interested suitors at the deadline if they're out of it um i you know they're they're not going to get out of out from under the ryan graves deal like it's just not

going to happen ah they got up from under jari and that looked impossible well yeah i think you're going to need more than than what you've seen so far from graves but i think the the point is that Dan Mews knows exactly what situation he stepped into, and he did goal one, which is get them out of the worst contract on the team, which was Tristan Jari's. Now, that doesn't mean that Tristan Jari's going to be bad at Edmonton.

I think it just means that they needed to get Tristan Jari out of there. The narrative all summer long was this is the only team that is so bad on paper that they are selling. Yeah. Everybody, 31 other teams were like, oh, we might be in it, but Pittsburgh was always so bad they're supposed to be selling,

and all of a sudden, they're good, and they've had a really good start to the season they've outperformed expectation but that doesn't mean you have to let go of the long-term goal which was getting rid of some of these players like Tristan Jari one of the things Jesse that that I'm reminded of and this is early in the Shanahan era one of the jobs of Mike Babcock I believe it was Mike Babcock was to make Dion Phaneuf look good uh I'm pretty sure in that last season was he not or was it somebody else don't I'm pretty sure hold on i'm gonna look i don't remember if enough and babcock overlapped and if they did it was for less than a full season yes and i believe that was the point uh toronto maple leafs yeah 15 16

yep oh okay when he got traded to ottawa uh he had 24 points in 51 games and was playing a lot on the power play and the leafs made it so that his numbers looked good so somebody else would want him because remember he was on that seven times seven deal seven million dollars a year when the cap was a lot lower yes and so they needed to move that deal that was priority one so the leafs and i've heard this from multiple people inside the organization they made a point of protect for enough make them look good make them look attractive show him show people his best attributes and let's get this contract off the bus and they fleeced the sense all they got out of it was a cup uh a conference final appearance well 100 i mean it worked out for

the sentence right yeah of course but my point is that you know i think that that is what happened with jari and i don't think that that's a bad thing i actually think with a goaltender it's probably best to play to their strength as much as possible because then you get the best out of them and look at the start pittsburgh had i you know you talk about that conversation or hypothetical conversation between dubas and muse it's an easy thing to agree to like yeah you know there's going to be some pain this season yep easy thing to agree to before the season then the season begins and you're good and it takes like two and a half months for the pain that you talked about to show up now it's hard well yeah because now you you sort of believe

that you could but i mean there's still a lot of october they're not right now they're not one point okay they're one spot out sorry what is what is that up on the screen i was gonna bring that up but uh you've beat me to it so there we go thanks steve uh back when steve used to actually work for a living he did trade trees and this was the dion funuf trade tree uh he did in november of 2020 you spoke with brian burke about the trade as well i believe to get some info on the trade tree but this was uh what happened when dion funuf was traded in february of 2016 wow talk about your trade tree uh so the leafs got for fina so they wow god i forgot how huge that trade was can you zoom in because the font on the ottawa part is too small to read no no no sorry there you go

so the leafs traded dion finoff matt fratton ryan rupert casey bailey and cody donaghy to the ottawa senators for colin greening milan mahalik screw screw screw the screw you want the other way yeah there you go tobias lindberg jared cowan and his second round pick in 2017 which i believe they traded but now the font is so small i have no idea you see this name down here oh the leafs traded tobias lindberg in a sixth round pick to get calvin pickard he was good in trial wow really and then there's the other side of it a calgary didn't do so good yeah staging gave them a lot of good years i liked nicholas hagman in toronto i thought he was good i did too that's why he was part of this deal yeah so this trade

tree is still technically going because pickard's playing and uh who else a couple of these guys are still in the league and everything you know did the leafs trade picker no the leafs lost him on waiver so that leg of the trade tree actually ended is that how you end it yeah i thought it'd be when they retire no it it ends when the leafs it ends when one of the teams involved in the trade tree stops recouping value they didn't get anything back right ah that yeah see this this is why i used to do it the job you know i've i get messages about trade trees all the time yeah they require so much work it's almost like everything requires work everything yeah well this requires more almost like it's just you know it's get done it's so funny because steve steve will be like

yeah like i don't know if i can do those because they were like sort of a sports that thing i'm like i don't think sports that has a lock on on the on the strategy of breaking down a trade you want me to start doing them yeah yeah i think everybody does everybody's asking you to do them everybody's really asked me i think i think for everybody's asking five years now people have love these and they've wanted them back hey maddie do you want to start helping me with something that takes just an enormous amount of time no she says no maddie said no here just for the just for the mic there yeah just just what was your answer again no no okay well then we can't it's maddie's fault oh yeah no it's just we'll talk about it all right we'll talk about it anybody wants to

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And by slumber, I mean, interrupt his schedule on a very busy day to make time for us. But welcoming back to the Steve Nangle podcast of the Chris Johnston Show. Chris Johnston, everybody!

Hey-oh! Sorry I'm not in studio with you guys. That's the only miss here. That's okay, buddy. How dare you? How dare you? We want to have you

anytime you have time but we know how busy you are so listen cj uh steve and jesse did like a great breakdown on friday of everything that was going on with quinn hughes from like a fan perspective and what we knew at the time but you know what occurred to me over the weekend is we had a whole bunch of reports uh from the vancouver side from the minnesota side we saw press conferences we saw bill garren talk about it we saw um quinn hughes talk about it himself i thought we would get the insider perspective uh i wanted to know specifically what was the straw that broke the camel's back here why did queen hughes say to the canucks apparently over american thanksgiving yeah i'm not going to sign here in 18 months yeah it was about three weeks

ago was when that conversation happened and you know i don't know that there was one thing i think it was the accumulation of a number of factors starting with the fact the team isn't very good I don't believe we're sitting here having this conversation, you know, in an alternate universe where the Canucks got off to a great start this year. Everyone was happy. They're winning. You know, it probably creates a different circumstance around Quinn Hughes to maybe think differently upon that.

You know, the media in Vancouver, I know, you know, was something that started to weigh on him, obviously. You know, very demanding market. He's the captain of the team. You know, he's not the one building out the roster, but, you know, you're kind of weighing things. And, you know, let's face it, Even you can go back to last year, everything that happened with JT Miller and Elias Pettersson.

You know, I don't think that was an easy situation for anyone with kind of a leadership stake in that club trying to get them through that. So, you know, my understanding really is it was just a combination of a lot of the factors that built up over time. And obviously, every day that was passing, you know, he was getting closer to July 1st, 2027, which is, you know, when he'll become an unrestricted free agent. when he has the ultimate control that a player has got to spend a lot of years in the league to earn. And, you know, he was not at all at a position where he was thinking about extending in Vancouver. And, you know, I think, you know, when you look at the return,

it's hard to argue that this wasn't the best time to trade him because the closer and closer that deadline became, I think the Canucks would have lost leverage. And so, you know, ultimately, I think everyone kind of comes away with the best case here. I mean, probably the best case would be the Canucks being competitive. But, you know, that wasn't the case. and as a result here we are today what it what on earth is going on in vancouver because for years

the canucks have struck me as a team that should be better than they are and one year they were and i bought into that i bought into that and i was like well this is this is what they are now they had that seven game series against the oilers if they have brock besser maybe it goes the other way who knows we'll never know but there was like a supposed rift between Horvat and some guys Horvat's gone there's a supposed rift between JT Miller and practically everyone he's gone Rick Tockett said I don't want to be a coach here anymore leaves and now Quinn Hughes who a lot of Canucks fans refer to as the best defenseman they've ever had some the best player they've ever had uh is gone like i think they did really well with the package here and we'll get into that

but what's going on it's a difficult question to answer you know i mean they've refused to do a rebuild i think that's kind of if you want to call it the original sin is is sort of just committing to a specific um you know plan of attack for building out the team you know they they don't have a practice rink which is you know sounds like a small thing but when you look at the amenities that teams are building out around the league they've kind of lagged behind in some of the things they can offer you know players who play there it's a very difficult market it's not the only one in the league but they have a lot of you know coverage they have you know a lot of people in the marketplace and i give them credit who are not afraid to call a spade a spade when it comes

to certain situations and so you know with you add it together it just seems like they're kind of piecemealing it and you know i i don't know that it's one thing that you can say like this is what's going wrong there but you sort of look at the totality of this and you're like man they've had a lot of good players pass through even um even with the way things have gone and honestly it's not like the management's made exclusively bad decisions they've made some pretty good trades i think it's just they haven't been able to to collect it all together and make it work and and you know the the jt miller stuff last year you know that's that's kind of like an earthquake on a team i mean you look two seasons ago you know both he and pedersen were 100 point

players obviously quinn hughes one of the best defensemen in the world thatcher demko is a top i mean they had they had the pieces lined up in place if they could have made that work where you're like you can build a winner out of that now it was only going to last so long miller's getting up there so you expect some decline as time goes along in his game but you know they did have it kind of arranged and it's all fallen to pieces here and you know i think if there's one positive quite honestly is they did pretty well in my view in this trade for quinn hughes it's never never a good situation when you're trading hughes but they they made a hard decision because the truth of the matter was he wasn't staying and you can sort of stick your neck in

the sand and pretend that isn't happening or you can get out there and you know basically make the deal they did and and you know i kind of wish we saw more of this around the league i actually give them not credit for putting themselves in this situation but you know at least once they were in that situation i think that they've actually done pretty well here at least they didn't lose it for nothing jess yep yep yep oh sorry you're jumping in okay well pennies on the dollar like they got good value here this is three first round players all under the age of 25 and a first round pick i mean that that's a haul that could have been the mitch marner return uh now i i listen i might be reading it could have been though uh you're not like that's not just we know it could

have been it could have been it could have been had they made you know had they been decisive about it the toronto maple leaves that is also yeah and if they had done it 18 months before he was a free agent instead of in the last year when he already had the no move clause exactly get out of my head Quinn didn't have Quinn didn't have any trade protection right there's a part of this not now so that that was also a smart call by the Canucks management now I I have seen Canucks fans and I think they have a point say the biggest mistake the Canucks made was picking JT Miller over Bo Horvat which has cascaded and you couldn't have seen it when the trade happened but has cascaded into the scenario we're in right now, because it was, from what I understand,

Bo Horvat and JT Miller not getting along. They chose JT Miller. Well, you know what version of Bo is showing up to the rink every day. And Bo Horvat, I believe he's hurt right now or was briefly hurt, but he was an outside contender for Team Canada. CJ, do you think this is a sliding door sort of moment for the Canucks? Had they chosen differently with Bo Horvat? Are we in a different scenario today?

You know, we have the massive benefit of hindsight, but I think it's fair to say that, you know, I don't remember if I thought that at the time, quite honestly, but, but looking back, you can definitely say it. And, you know, just as a small point of correction, I think Bo Horvath's on the inside for team Canada right now. I mean, we'll see where he's at health wise. But I think he's very much in the mix to make the team, you know,

obviously probably is a 13th or 14th forward, but that's how good his season has been is that he's, you know, he's right there the islanders have been a better team i think than a lot of us expected you know some of that's on matthew schaefer being generationally good to start his career but it's also players like corvette you know taking a step forward so you know there's there is probably that alternate universe where that could have changed some things i mean no one was saying that when i can't remember that that year what miller had but he had over 100 points i remember like no one was probably saying that right in the immediate aftermath of the trade when that

happen but you know over time that that looks to be you know a fission point um it's hard man it's like at the end of the day it's it really is difficult to build a good team i'm not letting the canucks off the hook here but you know i i do feel like they you know that's probably where it's more frustrating in a sense they haven't been like laughably bad at any point right it's more like you know it's not like they they're not in sabers territory here you know in terms of just an inability to like get even anywhere off the runway but they've still had trouble keeping the plane together and um you know i think if horvat was there we're probably talking about a different scenario who knows like you start playing that game it's like well maybe hughes never leaves like

there's a lot of what ifs right about all this stuff um they let chris tannev walk years ago i know tannev um was a player that quinn hughes was very fond of you know i see why by the way yeah but you can also see that i mean the problem is he went for four years to calgary uh you know with the tail end of it being in dallas and and he held up tremendously under that contract that the canucks were wary to give him but now you know look where he is in toronto he had a great year last year so that'd be the fifth year since leaving vancouver but but now he's unfortunately been hurt most of the season i think that durability was always just a concern frankly because of the way he throws his body in front of pucks and puts his body on the line

so consistently so you know i i do think it's a series of things that lead to today it's almost like death by a thousand cuts um to that that lead to the point where you're trading quinn hughes at age 26 and you know i think the canucks will be fascinating their side of this how they proceed i mean they might who knows they might luck into a number one overall pick this year i mean that that's one thing they've sort of not gone down that road but you know even with a win in new jersey you know they're still right near the bottom of the standings and are likely i think headed to to favorable lottery territory and you know they could end up sort of bouncing back quicker than we think if they get a great player in this year's draft now uh jesse and i made a

video like right after the the trade happened and i was reached out to by a few friends of mine who are canucks fans but they're not necessarily dialed into the prospect system of the minnesota wild they were they were mourning the loss of quinn hughes to another western conference team but i started getting messages like is this zeve bulliam kid actually that good and sure enough he has two points in his debut what can you say about like how zeve bulliams looked at league wide well very favorably i mean i would never come here and say he's going to have quinn hughes career because quinn hughes won a norris trophy and is probably on most people's top two or top three list right now and so i don't know if his ceiling gets quite that high but certainly a number one

defenseman on your team type of potential um and you know he's he's been a winner too i mean that's that's the other side of this he's done a lot of winning with usa hockey uh to this point uh really at every age age level including the world championship last year and you know i think there's still development and it's going to take a little bit of time because he's so recently drafted but you know that's that's the win here if you're vancouver is getting a prospect with that kind of potential that that he could become potentially somewhere near what quinn hughes was plus you get the center that they've badly needed i mean discussions with the wild on marco rossi go way back you know several months ago the canucks were originally trying to get him you

know liam ogren i think is a little bit more of a modest prospect but you know an nhl player who's still very young, and then you get the first-round pick. I mean, I think getting that kind of return, like each of those pieces is meaningful, right? Like there's not a lot of – there's no fodder just thrown in there to make it look like, hey, we got a bunch of magic beans here. Like, you know, Marco Rossi had 60 points last year. I know he's maybe a little smaller than some people like

in terms of, you know, being a front-line center in the league. But if you get to a point perhaps where he's your number two, and look, he might be there when Elias Pettersson's healthy for the Canucks, I mean, that's a pretty good asset in and of itself. We're talking about all these teams around the league looking for centermen. The Canucks just got one plus a prospect that could become Hughes. So, you know, that probably doesn't fill you with joy if you're a Canucks fan who, you know, probably bought a 43 jersey and, you know,

spent the last number of years believing that Quinn Hughes was going to take your team and your organization to levels it hasn't been to. But, you know, I think under the circumstances, it really is as good as they could have done. And with William in particular, I mean, he was, he was a tough draft prospect and I don't think they've seen any decline in his game. It's just, you know, there's a learning curve typically for defensemen entering the league. I mean, Schaefer's who I mentioned earlier might be the one guy that seems to be defying that. But if you look at pretty much any, any player, you know, entering the league at 19 or 20 as a defenseman, it's usually takes a couple of years to start, you know, bending the game to your will. Yeah, I think most rational Canucks fans look at that trade like how you described it and that like, oh, it's pretty good for Quinn Hughes. We kind of got everything we wanted. But I think the majority of Canucks fans, and I agree with them, look at it as we reached a point in our franchise's tenure where we had to trade our captain and we had to trade the best player in this trade and we had to lose one of the best defensemen in the league. and that in and of itself is a problem and for me that comes down to ownership and francesco aquilini so i don't know if you have any insight into how he's perceived amongst the other people

within the game and if he's messing too much with the franchise his fingers are a little too much on the canucks as we know he's very involved but if i'm a canucks fan today or on friday like that's who I kind of am looking at for the reason as to why we reached that point. We might've won the trade or at least come out looking good in the trade, but we should have never reached the point where we had to make the trade at all. Well, ironically I can tell you that Quinn Hughes thinks highly of Francesco

Aquilini and not just because he thanked him when he did his press avail in Minnesota. I mean, there's, I think there was a real good relationship there. So it's, it hasn't got to the level where necessarily players share this, but I understand why the media have zoned in on him in particular and the fans because, you know, there's a common denominator here, right? He's owned the team for quite some time. And basically this entire period, you know, going back 10 years of decisions, I mean,

really since Mike Gillis was the GM of this team, the Canucks have veered in all sorts of wild directions under, you know, his tutelage or time as the owner. And so, you know, ultimately he's, the buck stops with him, right? in his family, but he's kind of the front-facing member of his family that runs the team. And so, you know, he's not universally thought of the way you might see him characterized by fans or the media

within the sport, including with Quinn Hughes. And I think there's a lot of appreciation with the way that Canucks actually handled this exit. There's a lot of relief, too, right now for Quinn Hughes. You could see it. I mean, you watched the way he looked in Minnesota. I mean, that guy looked like he had a 1,000-pound weight lifted off his shoulder.

um you know just i think getting that fresh start having it not drag on even longer i mean this might be the worst thing that could happen uh if you're a canadian before the olympics is quinn hughes you know getting to getting that that sort of weight and burden off himself getting a chance to be re-energized you know playing now in minnesota for the next you know five six weeks ahead of that olympic tournament with you know a few players that are going to be part of you know including Faber and Boldy that are going to be part of his teammates at, at, in Milan. So, you know, I think that the reviews are mixed on Aquilini depending on who you're

talking to. But certainly doesn't give the impression of an owner that, you know, look in a market like Vancouver, there's just so many opinions. Like he, he doesn't give you the impression he fully gets, you know, what, where, where the criticism's coming from. Right. I mean, it's, there's like a disconnect there. It feels like between the message that, that he feels he's sending. And then, but what the media and the fans are hearing I don't know how you

solve that, that fact. You know, as I say, like what makes the Canucks hard to break down for me is it has not been universally good or bad. Like, I feel like it's, it's a real mixed bag of things. And then yet we're sitting here talking about them trading a recent Norris trophy winner at age 26. I mean, it's, there's no, there's no good way to put a spin on that. I mean, unless you're trading that for like, you know,

another superstar player in real time. And it's, it's a true star for star trade, which is not, I mean, there's, there's some hope built into this, that, that the prospects and young players are getting are going to help them collectively. But I mean, now I'm looking at Minnesota, quite honestly, guys, is there a team that has its cup window open? I think it's that significant of addition for them. I'm aware of, you know, what your follow-up is probably going to be.

If we talk about the wild end of this about, you know, their center depth not being, you know, typically what we see with a cup contender but I mean you you you win Stanley Cups because the players like Quinn Hughes like there's not a lot of players like him in the league that are true difference makers I mean it might be 10 or 10 or so it would be my just rough estimation so the fact that they've got two now and Kaprizov and him is is pretty special for the wild so I've got a couple of conspiracy theory questions because uh because I think it's always good to ask these especially with somebody as well connected as you are CJ but I will tell you

part of the message i think just to comment on what you said there part of the message that i think is not getting through to canucks fans is something you referenced right off the top of this segment and steven jesse and i when we were at sport check in the playoffs we're talking about the fact that canucks do not have a practice facility francesco aquilini's business the way that he makes money which is not the vancouver canucks you know most of these billionaires are using them as tax write-offs. He makes money by developing real estate. There's absolutely no excuse that a guy that plugged in to British Columbia real estate can't figure this out. It seems as though that is one factor as a part of many that has led to the scenario that we're in,

right? It's not the whole story, but at the same time, it's like, yeah, well, it's nice that he's a nice guy and it's nice that he handled Quinn Hughes well. But this is a this is a fumble of epic proportions. And I think Canucks fans were right to point that out. And it didn't have to be this way. Now, the question I have for you, there's two. But the first conspiracy theory question I have for you is Quinn Hughes notably did not thank Patrick Alvein in the Instagram post, did not thank Patrick Alvein as far as I could see in the press conference. When he says thanks to Jim Rutherford, does he mean Jim Rutherford and his administration? Or is there some tension there i'm not aware of any tension specifically but i think in this case

um the reason he's thanking jim rutherford is because he he handled the trade all right he he he took the reins on you know dealing with pat person and and quinn's agents at caa um you know keeping the hughes camp informed of where things were going giving prep person the ability to speak to the gms you know above board about that were involved here trying to make the trade and so So, you know, I think it's it is more a reflection on the fact that Jim Rutherford basically ran the show here from the Canucks end of this deal and that Quinn and his family were very appreciative of how he conducted himself during that. I mean, Jim Rutherford has a sterling reputation inside the NHL as being, you know, I realize he might take some arrows for decisions the Canucks are making in that market. But in terms of how he conducts business, he's widely respected, very straight to the point, you know, get a deal like this done. right doesn't doesn't drag this out for six weeks because really this trade came together in days

um and you know that's not always the way things go thank goodness honestly like yeah let's go movement hell yeah yeah but honestly like the thing is is some some people aren't that decisive in the league right and some people like to just kick tires and have all these calls and drag like you can imagine yourself i mean if you've ever dealt with i don't know made a fantasy hockey your fantasy football trade like it's nice when you can just get down to business and and two people sit down and talk openly and get it done so um you know i i don't read into that as much as you might there could be something there but honestly adam i've never heard any whiff of that in conversation so you know i can't really i think it's just more it's just it just highlights

that titles don't matter yeah because patrick all beans the gm but let's face it jim jim rutherford as the top decision maker in the hockey operations department. And he conducted the trade, essentially. Okay, I guess my other... And I've talked to a few people. There's questions about Jim, but this is not my other question.

Questions about, you know, he's 77. CJ, do you think he's still going to be running this team next year? I do. You know, Lou Lamorello just ran the Islanders until into his 80s, right? Yeah. You know, I'd be surprised if he wasn't.

I think that that he's still game for it. And, you know, I again, I think that at the ownership level, he's he's in good standing. So, I mean, I guess there's a world like let's just hope he's healthy enough and all those things. I mean, you don't want to take anything for granted, but I do think he'll be back. Now, I my other conspiracy theory, and this is the real one, is you mentioned the Minnesota Wild center depth and how it's potentially lacking, especially with a 60 point center like Marco Rossi gone. We saw Pittsburgh blow two historic, like crazy leads this weekend. They are falling back to earth. And I know Penguins fans are going to hate it specifically coming from me because I've been so hard on them the last couple of years.

But I have to ask the question. Marc-Andre Fleury still connected to the organization. Bill Guerin, Crosby's former teammate, running the organization. If Sidney Crosby becomes available, do the Minnesota Wild become a factor? Well, say it this way. I mean, it's still a monster if City Crosby becomes available to anyone. But all the teams that would like to have him can really do is put themselves in a position where if that day comes,

that they can be a spot where it would make sense for him to consider going. And I think that just on the surface, you now see in Minnesota the conditions where it might make sense. I mean, he would step in as their number one center, in my view, and would be on their top power play and still be joining a team that I think can be considered a credible cup contender, a place where he might be comfortable given the relationship he has and given that he could basically go try to help a team do something

it hasn't done. I mean, to me, the Minnesota Wild in their entire history have never been more relevant than they are today by the moves that they've made in the last few months. I know that they made those monster signings back in 2012, getting Ryan Suter and Zach Parise both at the time They were two of the top free agents. That was maybe close, but that experiment didn't pan out.

I think when you look at how elite their goaltending has been this year, having Kaprizov signed, now having Quinn Hughes in place with Faber, with guys like Boldy, Eriksson-Ek. I mean, all these players are locked up too, right? They don't have the kind of question marks sometimes a team has where you're like, ooh, is this guy going to extend in a year? And what's the number going to be? And is that going to blow the cap situation?

I mean, they're in total go mode right now. So I think that they at least present the things that would make it make sense. But at this point, that's not in Sadie Crosby's mind. I mean, I don't think he's looking around the league, you know, wondering where he might go. But, you know, the Montreal Canadiens, it's no secret, have been hoping to be in that position. You know, their season hasn't gone as well as they would have liked to this point. So I don't know if they'd still be in that mix. But I think all the teams that hope to get them can do is just be ready to act.

to you know the biggest issue what i see in minnesota honestly and we're getting way ahead of ourselves here i know i'm gonna that was the point that was the point i'm gonna radio the hell out of myself no but someone's just gonna clip part of what i said and not give the full content good that's good for us okay bad for me good for you yes exactly but the wild might not have the trade pieces to make sense still like that's that that is actually the only part of the equation if we're just fantasy GMing this from 1,000, 10,000 feet that I don't know if it could fit together because they've obviously depleted their young player prospect draft pick pool significantly in the Hughes deal. And those are the kind of assets, if it ever got to the point that Pittsburgh would

be looking for, just as they've been looking for in all their trades, frankly, for the last year or two, the Penguins have been actively trying to get younger. So what remains unchanged is Sidney Crosby will drive the bus on what does or doesn't happen with this. You know, they're still in a playoff spot, I believe, at this point in time. So, like, there's no way he's thinking the way we are. But, you know, it's our job to get ahead of ourselves or to do this sort of idle speculation at times. And so I think if we had have done the list in the summer,

like, where are the places that could make sense? Minnesota wouldn't have been there for me. Now Minnesota would be on that list. Okay. So that was good. Let's try that again. can you just say daniela you're of david you're a check in two first and then we'll edit that back like a few moments into the clip we'll make it into it'll be a sensation on tiktok yeah yeah

is that all right is that okay i know cj hates this so much you know what i well i'm just anyway you got ai at this point i mean i'm sure you can just somehow make it happen like you twist my words any way you want with the computer help so um you know what but look right he's right sorry that was a good conversation the conversation is fun for everyone but penguins fans but you know like you know i think that we all have wondered what it could look like you know it look at what's the excitement over the weekend it's seeing like a player like quinn hughes which is not exciting for canucks fans i realize but switch jerseys play a game like it's kind of weird to see him in the green but then you see him make a few big plays and like like look how electric that

building was in minnesota on sunday like it was and and quite honestly as i said like that team has a level of relevance they have never had in my opinion never because of a trade like this because of the caprizoff signing you know like they're they truly are all in like the way that i think fans of any organization would love to see their gm operating taking some calculated risks all those things i mean this this adds juice to the league it's exciting um and i understand the legacy component in pittsburgh and i and i understand frankly the penguins have been trying to get to the point where they're you know on the upswing again before the end of crosby's career And even a guy like Malkin, right, he's had a pretty good year.

I know it's his last year of his contract, but, you know, they're due to sit down in, you know, six weeks or so time and see maybe if an extension's in place. I mean, maybe they'll keep it together in Pittsburgh. That's obviously what they're trying to do from an organizational standpoint. But, you know, Pat Brisson, who's Crosby's agent, you know, was public in preseason, right, about he feels like Sid should be in the playoffs every year and, you know, he still remains at a high level

despite his age. And, you know, is he willing to let another season go down the drain If the Penguins, you know, go into the Olympic break out of a playoff spot and kind of trending in the wrong direction, you know, could there be a change of heart there? I don't know. I know Crosby doesn't want this talked about publicly, but, you know, you have to think if you're him,

like can you miss the playoffs again? It's just hard to imagine given how productive he remains and how good he still is. Let's bug him after the Olympics, I think. Yeah? Yeah. I don't want him being distracted. Yeah, okay, fair enough.

Fair enough. Bug him after. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family

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You know, I used to be, I used to get made fun of. Now everyone's at an age where they're like, what are those stretches you do? Yeah. People want to know. Yeah. Now, morning stiffness, knees that feel tight after sports, hips and shoulders that kind of catch or they don't move properly, whatever. These are not necessarily old age problems.

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You can find it in the link in the description or I'll just read it out for you. skyscanner.ca slash football dash flight dash finder and set your price alerts to lock in your trip for the biggest games of 2026 cj listen we really really appreciate your time guys you have any other questions you want can i get a leafs question in here yeah let's go cj you're gonna have the best perspective on this why didn't they do it on on saturday night when the leafs drop one to mcdavid and dry sidle and steve dangle sitting in his basement doesn't see austin matthews come out post game to talk does he have a right to be upset when those things happen he has a right to

be upset but i think you know we have to recognize that in every market the the pr staffs manage a player's availability like i think it's my understanding i'm pretty sure both dry sidle and mcdavid didn't talk after that game even though they were the two stars for edmonton and i'm not i'm not taking a run at the oilers pr staff over that i mean the the truth of the matter is there's a huge amount of demands on these guys it is normal operating procedure in the league quite honestly there's almost like a quid pro quo at times between the pr staff and the central reporters that cover the team i wasn't there saturday night i was there in the morning but you know so i don't know what discussions were had about that but you know i understand you want

the captain of the team to to speak to it you know my my guess is is you know the leafs are practicing right now on monday early afternoon i bet matthews will be among the guys that are speaking then i don't i don't see it as the end of the world for a game in december but you know you you also still have the right steve like you have the total right to your opinion like i i certainly am not here to to tell you what you should or shouldn't do it's just the truth is behind the scenes there's there is kind of a negotiation that goes on and and there's an understanding that every player can't speak every day all the time um i don't think that's good for the reporters and frankly i don't think it's good for the player okay uh a couple follow-up questions

is it monday morning or saturday night and do their checks still show up on time i actually think it's december 15th we're talking that's that's a payday in the nhl yeah there you go hey there you go lots of money hitting bank accounts today everyone's in a good mood uh game shmame who even cares if you win or lose you know what i mean high five high five let's go you said it's not the end of the world but what if somebody to my right takes it as if it is the end of the world well you know i've known steve and all you guys for a decade like i don't i don't think i'm gonna calm them down so you know it's been a tough year for the leafs It has. I mean, the fact they've used five goalies and 10 defensemen tells a story.

You know, they're still well within the playoff chase, but but it's not it's far from a certainty. Let's face it. Normally, if we were talking this close to Christmas holiday break, you know, it's it's almost like who are they going to play in the first round? Like usually by now that they have almost such a cushion built up, it's not really a question other than maybe one or two years along this nine year streak that they've had of making the playoffs. So it's been a tough season. And so I would expect that Steve is kind of the voice of the fans. It's not like Steve's the only guy out there frustrated. You know, I hear from all kinds of friends about how they feel about this team right now. It's a tough slog.

So rage on, Steve. If they don't get back into a playoff spot sometime soon, let's say after the Christmas break, and they're kind of still middling where they are, do the discussions about Brad and Craig's job start bubbling up again? yeah because you know i know internally the organization feels it has roughly a three-year window to try to win a cup um you know things could happen that change that plan who knows maybe you draft someone that you didn't expect to be a difference maker you know the the tampa bay lightning's views changed where they got nikita kucherov for example in the third round um and

that wasn't necessarily expected but at this point in time they're operating like they have a very small window here to win a stanley cup and so if they fall well short of even like getting a chance like here's the thing if they get in even if they get in with the last wild card spot i don't think the view will be quite as bad because there is an understanding like the playoffs are a bit of a crap shoot i'm not i'm not letting anyone off the hook for anything that's happened but like it is the truth right like colorado lost in the first round last year and now they're just turnstiling the entire nhl and they haven't won have they won a playoff series since they won the cup one maybe or not anyway point is they haven't had an abundance of playoff success so something

that's due to the format and all these things the leafs need to get back in the playoffs if they don't get back in the playoffs this season there's going to be consequences for that i just i don't see any way around it no does do they happen in season that you know i think it will just depend on how close they are how the team's playing i mean saturday aside that there has been an uptick in their performance i think in the last few weeks as a team it's got to continue they've got to get even better they've got to strain together a lot of wins to get back in a playoff spot but if they're trending in the right direction i think some of that heat will stay away but if this is the start of a slide in the wrong you know direction then who knows where it goes i

mean you know we we had the the president of the team or the entire organization keith pelly say like it's go time right that was his exact line i believe in october like this they they entered this season thinking pedal down we're going to be a factor and they've not been a factor anywhere near to the degree they would expect let's radio cj matthias macelli is a big question mark about how many more games he'll play as a member of the leafs okay there we like that and the last one i want to give you some homework because i was listening to the cj show you know he's doing us a favor right i don't give a damn no no uh homework so uh i was listening to cj show it's my number one podcast on my spotify wrapped

jesse's 100 percenter in for me on saturday too i am yeah i was quite upset at you you were the only one us 100 percenters more credit at the end of last show i got a little i got like some angry dms over that so i mean angry semi-angry but like a lot of people saying hey you're not giving us enough credit which is essentially the message jesse delivered face to face i saw on saturday morning cj i can never be mad at you the question is it's it's a follow-up from something i heard on today's show i would like an investigation into why teams are doing these friday night deals why because you're right it's screwing up our lives and i want them to knock it off here's the thing i'm actually not even saying it as a complaint it's just been a

clear trend yeah it's like it's definitely it not even as a complaint you're right like it's why are they doing this because they're clearly doing this and i've asked a few people and they they kind of like shrug it off like i mean gms and people have made those deals i'm like is there a reason for this like is it just because maybe the world gets a little quieter like you don't you know like you have less of their day-to-day business stuff going on at that time so you can just like lock in and get a trade done i haven't found anyone um who like i haven't found anyone who can give me an answer but it's definitely happening and frankly i know this if i'm being totally honest because i can just think of how many trades have happened when i'm like a little

buzzed like in a social situation and now i gotta say friday was not one of those times but with the quinn hughes deal i mean but like i remember the ryan o'reilly deal to the leafs happened uh-huh like i was in a cab on the way home from a dinner with friends like nothing crazy but you know wine at dinner and i'm like oh my god what is like i think that might have been last year that was a friday night it wasn't friday we were out at some we're at a hotel right yeah we You're in London. Yeah, it was Friday night. It's a thing.

It is a thing. I was sober for random, though, because I was actually in Charleston, South Carolina, because I was doing a half marathon there that weekend. Oh, I remember that. But it also interrupted a planned nice dinner that night. Anyway, I don't expect that Eric Tolsky or Chris McFarland or Kyle Dubas, who made the ROR trade.

I don't think these guys care, because let's face it, they're working all hours of the day. but very few trades happening at like noon on a Monday when I'm like right now I am ready to work guys like I am doing nothing today but working and there's no trades happening but uh it's funny you brought up Ryan O'Reilly uh Adam and I were high difficult to make a video we were baked in Steve's basement so yes at least you're together yeah I did the video that night no no no because Steve wouldn't do the video that night because he was high remember I offered to do it oh you did it Oh, I think I was on team do it.

And so were you. And both of our wives were like, absolutely. Yeah, do not. Jesse did it. That's right. Oh, my God. That's throwing it back. All right.

Well, why are we trusting our memory? Because as I enter team dad phase, I know I'm going to be up at all hours now. Yep. I'm not going to be going out to dinners with wine for the next foreseeable future. half so i'm gonna have an i'm gonna have a leg up on the insiders around the league because i'm just gonna be up work ready to work at any given moment 100 this guy's gonna be breaking the kawaii trade at 3 a.m yeah honestly honestly when it's like that like when you become a parent it's sort of like work becomes your play because everything at home is is a lot of work especially when they're

young you're just trying to keep them from not dying that was well they're like two you wait thing to say what the hell is that wait you wait you know what the most interesting thing about becoming it it's hard about being a dad to be is you get a real range of opinions from people including like what adam just said like all it goes it goes for like this is going to be the worst thing you've ever experienced and you're going to want to like run away and pretend and some people are like oh man it's going to be the best thing ever you're going to change your like it's somewhere in the middle it's in the middle yeah but i like i can't believe the range of opinions i've heard and honestly my ig you should see the crap i'm getting served up with like ig

definitely it's like turning me into a doom scroller about like how i'm gonna be a insufficient parent no you're gonna be great you're gonna be great cj and listen i'm just talking about the first couple of years it's hard like steve you have a two-year-old your whole job is to keep her from dying it's very easy very yeah right i've always said people go through a different experience yeah okay that is life i'm scared that we're having a boy like in my mind i was like we're gonna have like this cute little girl that just sits in the corner and doesn't make noise and colors and it's so sweet and i'm gonna get like just a rambunctious little boy i know it just running into walls i've you know i've got one of each they're both barbarians yeah

remember if they're playing a sport that's not hockey lefty if they're playing hockey right hand that's right you know there i was a left shooter though does that does that get passed down from no push them over cj you can manipulate it when they're a child that doesn't matter right defense cj right defense uh we had a conversation about maybe not getting too serious in the hockey thing unless he really drives it yeah well you'd be ten thousand dollars a year or more if they get serious into it but oh to be honest ten thousand is light yo so is dance though if kids get into dance like i i've know some parents my daughter liked it but didn't love it so there's a lot of parents i know who are like well you should count your lucky stars because that is the most

expensive thing you could possibly do cool kids like boxes and mud and dirt yes yeah that's all your fault 100 um cj thanks so much for making time for us today also guys brand new cj show is out this morning where he goes into further depth on this but we really wanted to uh to have you on because honestly uh you give us depth that no one else can and and uh it had been a while too it has been a while and i got to get back in studio at some point because i love seeing you guys and the energy when we're face to face you know we'll do we'll do something pre-olympics how's that sound that sounds good okay as long as the baby doesn't come early i'm in all right beautiful well cj best of luck and we'll talk to you soon buddy thanks boys you know we talk

about teams that don't have a deep bench you know who does fanatics and jesse you know jesse it's a Shame that you don't show off your Fanatics gear more often. Oh, yeah. Right now, anybody listening, I am rocking some winter classic gear from Fanatics for Florida. They have the scarf that says South Florida. And I got the toque on as well with the Florida Panthers logo on it. It's great stuff. And Steve Dangle is wearing the elevated Lululemon collection because not everybody wants a big logo all the time.

You know, there's a little logo. I just got a little one and also a splitting headache because Jesse elbowed me the moment he put that on. wow no i bet you won't apologize for it yeah whether your fandom is in people's faces or a little bit more subtle that's okay fanatics has got it for you and here's the thing this lululemon connection collection is available in all 32 teams so if you love it you can get it for any team that you want including multiple teams for the same household which i know a lot of families are split down the middle with who they're cheering for jesse will not apologize for his elbows nor his fandom i will not uh and you should give nhl fanatics gear a chance fanatics the ultimate

destination for nhl gear including official jerseys hats tees and the brand new lululemon nhl collection combined for premium comfort and subtle team pride for all 32 clubs shop the entire nhl world an elevated little line a little collection line sorry i couldn't say that right fanatics.com two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer that's why every step and dollar-raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family

to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. You gotta try breakfast at A&W. You've got to try breakfast at A&W. And what better way than with a delicious Pret organic coffee, starting with just $1 all day, every day, now until December 31st.

You've got to try breakfast at A&W. At participating A&W locations in Ontario. You know, I think it's fitting that we ended the segment on... Wine and hotels. On the Leafs, because we got to talk about them. And Penns fans will be upset because we led the show with the Penguins failures. But we are here to talk about the Leafs failures, too, because they also gave up a lead to San Jose and then did it again to the Oilers. And, you know, much like the Penguins, the Leafs absolutely fell to pieces in a way that felt Montreal-ish from three weeks ago.

Just, you know, they had a 2-1 lead. It was 3-2 by the end of the second period. and they just said, you know what? How about, what if we stopped playing? It was, I got, I got mad. Like the Sharks one was one that, that got away. It was a real vibe killer. Like they were doing really well.

They played a good game. Like, no, not even just the game. Like they had a really good week, week and a half. They were playing really well. You look like you're playing really well against the Sharks. You blow it. All right, now let's get it back on track. Yep.

for 40 minutes it looked like they did like mcdavid pants them three different times but outside of the best player in the world looking like the best player in the world i'm like they're right in this they allowed a goal with 31 seconds well they scored on their own friggin net we'll start there uh but like shit happens yep then the best player in the world sucks three players to his side of the ice nurse is wide open you pass it to him and he blasts it which he's definitely capable of you're still in it they showed up for work at the beginning of the third period like they hated nothing more in the entire world than hockey i don't know what it was like the oiler score quick you're like oh you know fuck my life all right well damn all right

pick it up pick it okay no like so get it get it out of the zone okay they got it out that was good they got it out of the zone again spending a lot of time in their zone and they're only chipping it out and now it's five two and what are you doing they didn't play well i i thought I was ringing alarm bells on that first McDavid goal because the Leafs defense just sort of got out of his way it was crazy if you all was confused he

thought the puck was somewhere else on that play and then Riley just got completely beat yeah they look like shit McDavid absolutely loves playing against Morgan Riley yeah yeah we can watch the at NHL edge goal visualizer here just to see how

embarrassing it is but But OEL here thinks the puck's going out to this side of the ice. And you can see, if we show the actual replay, him kind of look that way and be totally confused. But McDavid just goes right by him. And then Riley actually just gets beat. So, Oregon. Riley and OEL look bad in this play.

Can you go back to the beginning? Pass. Nikwa. Nikwa. Oh, I was even, there was a bad play from Robertson. Maybe it wasn't this one. Maybe it's not. this is just the first goal but regardless of uh this was an embarrassing thing and i want to i

want to pay particular attention to the post-game comments uh because jesse you were there for these and one of them i'd like to play scott lawton's first if we could because scott lawton for me is quickly becoming a first off i fucking love this player and i think i'm gonna get his jersey what uh and cj did point out to me hey you know he's an unrestricted free agent and i was like i I think the Leafs, if they're going to build anything, they need this guy. The Leafs with like four minutes to go in the third of a period at home. They've been losing the entire time. We're getting outshot like 11 to one.

Yeah. And the only thing that turned it around was one, the Oilers stopped playing. And to Brube put together this line that was like the all give a shit line. I'm just going to start playing the players who give a shit. now he couldn't play them every shift yeah but I wish he did well I I think we were a little hard on Nylander on Friday because he's been sick and I think in Berube even said after the game he only played him 13 minutes he's like there was no point in throwing him out there in that he just he couldn't he took the ice the schedule doesn't stop yeah but I I think you can I think you can

make allowances for somebody that's has the flu I think you can I think you have to I think you have to i think um allowances are for players who don't so routinely look that way aren't bratty with their head coach like all this all the willy aura stuff is real cute when you're winning when when you're losing it makes you look a bit like an asshole so like yeah i know but he is sick on this one and i get you but i think we have let's call a spade a spade here all right in any other game even if they're losing like that willie's playing 18 minutes 18 to 20 minutes he's played 13 18 minutes where he might look like a star or he might not look and i agree with you but he is clearly sick as is dakota joshua matthias michelli missed practice today i mean

there's something going around sure so that one we have to give now scott lawton team in the nhl like that jesse blake scott yes we do we talk we talk we do we give other people allowances no Well, they're the only team that goes through anything. Have you noticed that? They're the only team that ever goes through anything. I am willing to give him that. I am willing to give him that. And I agree with you on all the other points that you made.

You know what? You earn your allowances and he spent them. Okay, fair enough. He had a great start and he's been spending them like crazy. That's fair. That's fair. Now, Scott Lawton says this, Jesse. well it's uh it's hard to uh hard to uh understand um just have to be better we have to be better

managing games and in certain situations you see those guys you know how good they are in uh in moments and then it can turn on you that quick and uh yeah we just got to know it's uh we don't have to make the perfect play every shift it's uh it's a 60 minute game for a reason you got to wear the team down and and go the other way play north make them come 200 feet i don't think we did enough of that how much did their speed play a factor well we played into their speed too so it's uh you can limit them a little bit and obviously they got two of the best players in the world right so but you can make it harder on them um getting up and down the ice but uh yeah we need to be better in every area of the game and um it's just not good enough

i don't know if effort i think uh sometimes when when things go a little bit south you start standing and watching and um they make it look like that too sometimes when uh when some of their guys get going so So pick ourselves up and pick up some points here at home. We've got to start pushing, have some urgency, and get going. Jesse, did anyone rush in and cut him off? Because that was far too insightful and interesting and honest for the Leafs. I think, no, I think, you know what, can we get this guy out of here?

That's not a Leaf. That's not a Leaf. No, you've got to be. He's still a flyer? yeah yeah that was that was flyer that was a flyer talking that was way too interesting and way too honest i know what you mean because scott lawton slowly has becoming one of the best quotes that the leafs can deliver because he thinks about what he's going to say and it's not just regurgitated hockey blurbs you know he's actually trying to give some insight into what happened and

what they can do better and i think that's why guys love him a lot around the locker room he's ultimate team guy and it comes through in his press conferences he's a he's a great quote i also just love watching him play like he plays the game the right way every night and he is he a perfect player no but anybody that's watching scott lutton's shifts and going this guy's bad and the leaf shouldn't have got him sorry you i just can't take you seriously um this is a player that clearly gives a shit wants to be here plays great defensively has had some great opportunities has finally injected an identity and some life into that fourth line and you see how important that is for the Toronto Maple Leafs this year to have that with especially the Matthews line

struggling which we're going to get to they're nothing without they're nothing it's crazy and and you know the team is nothing without nothing yeah yeah so I look at I look at that Scott Lott and quote I'm like that carries some weight the other one Jesse and I I don't know if we want to play Berube or if you want me to just read your quote on it uh I can play it okay let's play it The one about the team leaders, because this has been something I think that, you know, Steve, when you talk about William Nylander, for instance, right, spending his goodwill, I think this is what you're talking about. And I think that it's more than just Willie. I think Morgan Riley's in there. Oh, yeah.

I think that I think Austin Matthews is in there, but we've got to Tavares has not spent his goodwill, but. that that hot starts gone eh well here we go here listen to what craig brube has to say we might have to listen to a little bit of it because i don't have it queued up but here we go well 30 seconds ago in the second period we throw a puck blind to the slot and first of all they should have changed but they don't oh maybe that was the robertson one we get caught on the wrong side of it and give up a goal late in the second period after playing pretty well for two periods just it's not smart hockey and then the third period a lot like san jose game i didn't feel we came out and took control of the period um we let them dictate

how it was going to play puck play wasn't good didn't kill any plays um you know so that's basically the game you've got two great players obviously the cover team down in the front of the especially in the third period they can get those two killer goals yeah for sure we weren't we weren't hard enough around our net 100 percent how much did their speed affect the game well they're quite i mean they're you know i thought we handled it pretty well for two periods um you know you they're going to get their opportunities with speed for sure and um but i thought for two periods you did a pretty good job but third periods like I mean it's been two games in a row um at home where we come out and we just we look flat I don't like so that's the bottom line for me

but it's whatever it is you know we we should have been coming out and dictating how we're going to play that period in the way we wanted to play it and we didn't do it No, it's, you know, I don't know. I mean, you know, I talked to the team after the game and it's, you know, our leaders got to take control of it a lot more than they are right now. And, you know, to me, that's all, it's all a mindset, you know, whether you're down a goal, we're up in the San Jose game, like he's gonna have more urgency and more being more direct on how we want to play um we didn't

do it in a third period two games in a row so let's pause it there um and and i want to i want to pull those up so i will throw it on that um i think when he says something like that you know that is a pretty significant thing like sheldon keith would never have been allowed to say something like that um keith would have done it more emotionally and then had to apologize yeah i think what's happening here is this is a team that like i've been saying since the beginning of the season they're too talented to play like this way more and i know that there have been injuries i know art or act yama was the fifth goalie now and this is 10 or 11 weeks into the season fifth goalie 10d it's crazy crazy that's crazy the reality of the situation is that i i'm

still watching austin matthews look off shots that he would always take i'm still they're still not sure who's going to play the right wing for them which is now changed again today and i know steve's going to get to that in a second yeah um i am i'm just and and you know one of the criticisms i always had for John Tavares guys was yes he could play great the hot start was awesome whatever but when it comes to a moment when you need to be an emotional animal yeah John is going to fall short on that that is not what he does and that is why I felt like it was time for a change at captain to each their strengths that's not what that's not what I'm saying that for like half a decade yeah and it's not because I don't I love that man like build a statue in his honor the

fact that he wanted to stay here is amazing the fact that he's playing as good as he is at his age is amazing but i'm looking at this and i'm going who's the dog who's the max scherzer who's the uh the miles straw i'm talking i'm comparing to the blue jays who is like and i say max scherzer and i say miles straw for for two different reasons max scherzer's a legend first ballot hall of famer one of the best pitchers to ever play in major league baseball and a complete psychopath dog dog dog dog miles straw uh is a guy that kind of pinch runs and and plays the odd saturday or sunday game when they've got you know two games within a 24-hour period because they got a saturday night and a sunday afternoon they don't have anyone you have to talk down this team

that's a great way to put it this team is what everybody accused timothy lillygrin of damn there there is when when the time gets tough they're soft around the net they don't get angry uh and they take losses too easily and you know when they talk when we talk about timothy people say well if there was some bite in that game if there was some anger in that game justin hall same thing if there's some anger there you know we talked about justin hall like you're big for what you don't throw the body even hall would at least fight and get get his ass kicked yeah he was not on occasion he wasn't good but he'd do it this team seemingly you know you see spurts of it and and i say this with marner here too right you'd see spurts of this is what this team could

be if they would just commit to it and i we've been saying that for years at their best you're like that's got to be a team eventually that breaks through and i don't think they're in a stanley cup window right now i'm not kidding myself no but i look at this and i go this team should be a playoff team automatically um i know they've had injuries i know that but i feel like there's a mentality problem here that has persisted and i'm wondering as you said steve who's the guy that gets so freaking ragey after something like that that they have to go yo buddy you need to calm down i'll give you a name michael bunting well they wanted him out michael bunting you know that i they had to calm down and like he was nuts he was like really really emotional

and they wanted him gone and now they got nothing cadre you know listen it was a bad trade uh i'll defend dubas making the trade yeah anyone who says that deal didn't need to be made is it's it's revisionist cope yeah had they made a good deal there you wouldn't say that he cost you two series yes then and no one ever includes this part then he went to colorado or do you want to stay in the cup no he cost them a series then they won the stanley yes which i found it hilarious when he put up that instagram photo later and been like see this is all the people that doubted me blah blah i'm like yo naz people had people had some reasons i love

naz but people had their reasons yeah well like he he wins the cup and then he goes into a microphone on hockey night in canada he goes anyone who called me a playoff liability could kiss my ass it's the equivalent of me going kobe brick kobe brick kobe brick kobe dink dink dink dunky goes in and i go see yeah or or or somebody says this is for anyone who said i was emotional yeah steve dangle yeah for like you it wasn't that you weren't good enough you were one of the top three principal reasons your team lost three years running two different teams

two different teams and then you went check me out so what so this is the thing with the Leafs though is like I who is you to use the Bob McKenzie phrase who's the straw that stirs the drink on this team Scott literally Scott

Lawton I think it's Scott Lawton straw Lawton straw I think that's a problem I think it went he should be one of the guys not all of the guys yeah i think when you're like uh what we're talking the seventh best forward in terms of like pure skill on paper you know like the guy who's probably on your third or fourth line is your emotional leader that's probably not good so one of the years the leafs had wayne simmons and i don't remember which one it was um they were doing really well he got hurt

and they went on a bit of a slump and one of the things they talked about was like yeah well we miss him on the bench like they miss him as an emotional leader on the bench and now it's years later they've changed all this all this personnel they've gotten rid of all the dedicated babysitters that this team has gone through over the years and you know for all the there's too much emotion around this team and everyone there is not nearly enough emotion around the toronto maple leafs i think all the emotion is around the truck maybe what if toronto looks psychotic because these guys are xanax incarnate and we're and we're the ones freaking out like that's why toronto looks crazy because the players are cool as a cucumber about it and

fans are freaking out going wait a second i can't be the only one that sees this right these guys are horse tranquilizer with arms and legs like what if it's that nothing bothers that i would like for things to start bothering the leafs actually two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer that's why every step and dollar raised matters on september 19th join thousands in toronto for the princess margaret cancer foundation walk challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer register today at pmcfwalk.ca you gotta try breakfast

at A&W. You gotta try breakfast at A&W. And what better way than with a delicious Pret Organic Coffee, starting at just $1 all day, every day, now until December 31st. You gotta try breakfast at A&W. At participating A&W locations in Ontario. Can I give you guys two stats I was looking at after the Leafs blew another lead and fell in this game, and it seems like it's a trend, and we're talking about Pittsburgh blowing all these leads, but Toronto doesn't adjust as much.

I got two stats for you guys. Give it to us. Win percentage for the Leafs when entering the first intermission with a lead. Well, the second period's been god-awful. I'm going to say, Jesse, 521%. You know, 0.521. I'm going to say they're 500.

That's exactly it. They are 500 in a win percentage when entering the first period with a lead. So far this season, they are 6-4-2. So that ranks them 29th in the league. The only teams below them are the Blackhawks, who are also 500 in their win percentage. the blues who are 417 and the kraken who are 333 which is no but for me the that's like disastrous right you're 29th it gets worse when you look at when they enter the second intermission with a

lead because you go there and you sort it by win percentage when leading into the second intermission right the leafs there rank 32nd in the league and have only a 583 win percentage when entering the second intermission with the lead they're seven three and two that is the worst mark in the national hockey that's how much of a slam dunk it needs to be by the way um to to win a game that you're leading heading into second intermission they're the worst team in the league seven three and two yes the majority of nhl games when a team enters the third period with a lead 80 of the time they walk away with a win if every 12 games the leafs were seven three and two they make the playoffs yeah they do fine but they're the worst team in the league that's

much of a slam dunk it has to be and this is why um um what was the word you used for willie assurances no allowances allowances this is why i just don't give them any allowances like well they're sick well that's the excuse that's built in this time but they've been doing this all year so i don't give a shit like i don't care what's sore or what bug they have or what do do all the other teams that you play have an unfair advantage yes or no you don't play a full game you never score on the power play i went and looked at the marley's like just for fun i was like wouldn't it be funny if they were like awesome i have horrible news they're last in their division the leafs have scored 11 play uh 11 power play goals all year

so have the marley's combined they have 22 that they have an organizational last the total goals on the power play thing for the Leafs. That's last. Yes. Yeah, it's disgusting. It's well, I again, I keep asking on my

on the streams like, OK, so all of these losses are kind of clouding the fact that that the power plays been anemic. And I just kind of wonder how long can an assistant coach last when you've

got two years in a row with a power place ice cold. Now, this was the time last year when the power play picked up. It was literally midway through December, right? and i was still going hard on it probably a little earlier i think it was yeah okay

i don't get in the late december yeah like like last year you felt like well they they could this year i just don't know and it seems like they don't know every game we've got a different power play setup you know one day nize is on one day we're doing all five forwards nobody can defend uh it's it's like i i we gotta ask the question again is this guy the right guy do you want to talk about who the assistant coaches are savard the right guy i so i don't believe like it's it's the right move to have them there as the assistant coach because clearly there's enough evidence that it doesn't work but you're never going to get an assistant coaching change i think in like just the never see you never see you never see it the nfl does it like they fire

coordinators all the time but the nhl is just not a thing and you know what it should be a fucking thing but i think you play out the string with savard because i don't think there's a precedence for that by the way the Leafs from their assistant coaches Jesse hemorrhaged two great coaches of the last two years Lane Lambert and Spencer Carberry both of them both of them Carberry had an unbelievable power play although it did go a little dead in the playoffs but some of the guys were out uh Lane Lambert was unbelievable with defense last year unbelievable and and they can't play they're not those guys got jobs because they're really good yeah it should be pointed out that the Leafs defense less so but penalty kill has been much better it's been

spectacular you know why scott lotten's back scott lotten scott lotten david alter posted the leafs power play configuration today riley nielander tavaris matthews nice yeah for me what are we doing the 60 minute effort thing it's so clear and i don't know you think the effort died in the third i mean you saw it in person is that how you felt so like effort efforts effort such a tough word because i i think unlike steve believe that when these guys who are on the ice for the Leafs are out there they want to win the game I think I think they want to win the game they're professional athletes who reach this level uh because they are competitive they're all out there giving their best effort but something stops them uh mentally from doing the right things in the

execution to win the game so it's details for you it's yeah I think that's a that's a lot of it a lot of it but whether that comes from like you're not skilled enough like i i can really make the argument that just the guys they have there are just not skilled enough to execute in the proper ways to hold leads i think that just might be true and if this season goes the way it is that could just be the end result and that this team just doesn't have the good enough players to get to where we think they should be and the injuries are a factor in that because you're using 10 events been using five goaltenders the guys you're running out there aren't nhlers at the end of this like some of these are second pairing marlies who you're running out there and that's a skill gap

between evan bouchard and darnell nurse on the other side yes so there is that and then there's the mental side of it of you not taking care of the details anymore once the game gets away from you even a tiny bit so there it's a combination of everything now uh no quotes have been released at the time we're doing this show but like it kind of looks like Tanev's back really it looks like he's gonna be back tomorrow like based on the so the pairings in order listed by David Alter are Riley Benoit God Save Us uh McCabe Stetcher OEL Tanev and then Thrun Myers um that kind of looks like tanf's coming back that's good it is good and he's also mixed up the lines a lot that could solve a lot of problems yeah let's let's go through these lines the four

lines are interesting yeah i'm not a hundred percent sold but yeah nice matthews kneelander robertson tavaris mcmahon joshua wa domi domi is the wing lorenz lotten cowan extra is yarn croak and obviously michelli is sick don't get cowan on the fourth line but the fourth line's been a good factor so okay tanif isn't playing by the way oh he's not uh david alter says tanif calls his current situation fluid but nice to get back to a full press practice craig berube says he won't play tomorrow asked if he would return before christmas he wouldn't commit to a timeline did berube say who would no of course not okay great thanks for that craig um nice matthews kneelander i think that's i think that's craig

berube finally admitting i need my two best players to get going and they need to and maybe they need to find each other i don't know about nice matthews as a duo i'm starting to question it okay tell me why they don't connect with each other nearly enough they're both hard-working defensively responsible like they're similar in a lot of ways um i think the the way they play the game the like on the back half of the ice you see them as very similar players and i like them together on the pk um when they're out there together um with domi i see a player who's always looking for austin and with nize sometimes i think he just tries to leroy jenkins everything and let's do this and i'm just gonna bull in a china shop go through everyone and it works an

alarming percentage of the time but maybe that's better suited with a tavaris that's kind of what i'm wondering um it's less about let's try nice and tavaris and more about like okay matthews hasn't really been going at full tilt all season long no and he doesn't have the puck much no and the consistent thing has been nice this isn't a criticism of nice i just would like another look uh neil andrew matthews yeah okay fine but i don't know i'm not overly sold about i don't know why you break up the third line that for me doesn't make any sense like i i would like to see domi with tavaris because he's got speed on the wing and mcmahon's got speed on the wing too but the joshua wah mcmahon thing worked it's working why why change it so robertson and mcmahon have

good chemistry they they find each other so i understand it but i think i agree with you i'd rather have domi up there and then you have mcmahon like your bottom six has been great yeah that's kind of why i would side with mcmahon on the right of juan joshua and then lorenz like that's the perplexing thing about craig berube hockey for me is it's like you find something that works in the lower end and goes you know what i'm just not going to do it and And, you know, it was like with Domi. Domi played, guys, what, six weeks as a center? And the entire six weeks, everybody who watched the game,

you didn't even need to show them the stats. Everybody's like, he doesn't work there. It's absolutely horrible. Up and down the lineup does not work. Berube's like, no, we're going to do that. You could have played. You know, I know Wa was out for a little bit, but with Lawton gone, you could have played Lorenz at center.

He does a fine job. I don't. I don't understand. I think my faith in Craig Berube, like, I'm not saying he gets fired now. and i'm not saying he gets fired during the season but like my faith in him i think is irreparable like i'll never trust trust this guy again no no jesse do you feel that way trust him for which side of do you think he's making a good decision do you think he's the right guy for this team as it's currently constructed i don't think he has the players

to play the type of hockey that he wants to play i think if you look at this forward group and you're ranking them amongst the other 31 teams it's towards the middle bottom half and i don't think he has enough pieces to put together a team that can be competitive in the way that he thinks is conducive to good playoff hockey got it don't he's been playing very different like that that third line could be great you know mcmahon always gets shots in the top six and it never really works out it'd be great if he like grabbed a hold of it um i don't know it's i think it's it's a coach just button mashing right now okay well i guess we'll see what happens uh as far as goaltending goes it it was nice to see uh joseph wool did take the ice don't know if he's going to

be back but fingers crossed that that happens soon and no disrespect to akhtiyamov and hildeby's been playing great i think they made the right call in pulling hildeby in the third yeah that That was an admission that he's played a lot of hockey, that he was a little tired. Craig Brube said it as well in his postgame a little later. We didn't get to those comments, but it's in there. And Hildeby wasn't responsible for that loss. That's a team loss on that. And he's never played this amount of hockey in his life.

It's good to give him just that extra 20 minutes or whatever it was off and let him regroup for Chicago tomorrow. which like you look at that loss on edmonton on saturday and i wonder if the guys didn't take that game seriously enough because of the matchup that they have on tuesday and i think that's a lot of the problem that the team has you know it's it's getting up for the right games and connor mcdavid on hockey night in canada are you kidding but and then so you have the game saturday it's in the middle of a homestand and then if you pick up the win on tuesday against the blackhawks a team that not going to have bedard everything kind of looks good you know and it's better you're happy after that win uh the fans like everybody's everybody's cool like oh they're back on track and everything

so you kind of don't have the you don't have the right mentality going into that oilers game and you might slip up and give up a lead there so i wonder if there's a little schedule watching there uh it might be an easy pickup win on tuesday i'll tell tell you an easy i'm gonna remortgage my house uh nick lardis uh made his nhl debut the other day he hasn't scored a goal yet hey you know we all know what's happening you know how it says is ice cold on the blackhawks who frank first line center nazar yeah but it's not his first nhl game no i know but i'm just saying he's gonna he's gonna kick off his hot his next hot streak against the least he can he can setup Lardis um and by the way Tyler Bertuzzi anytime oh yeah book it man book it um by the

way Bedard is um uh it's looking like the shoulder probably a separated shoulder they haven't said that but he will be re-evaluated in early January that sucks so much face off with 0.8 seconds Joseph well I forgot to say this um original diagnosis was one week oh he'll be out a week it's been more than a week i said uh originally when he went out i was like oh probably won't see him till the new year we're running up on two weeks here and then it's gonna be christmas and the christmas break and then the games after the christmas break um that week timeline is no longer true thanks toronto yeah we need to start actually writing this down they're liars don't you think i think we should write this stuff down uh here let me his last game his last game was

december 4th yeah it's the 15th it's 11 days ago you bunch of liars yep yeah if he misses the next one that'll be two weeks your team doesn't that's 100 more of the time you gave us so you're always like oh yeah full 60 full 60 full 60 so full 60 so the games we know the scheduled game is 60 minutes right so if you can't do a full 60 that means your team does not try you outright lie to the fans what are you selling me other than i'm an asshole that will give you money worked up no like we they're they're a jet no no they have digressing and then we i do gotta take aim at oh no it's not necessarily keith pelly it's not it's not but they have failed so objectively at something they were trying to do heading into the season which is being likable outreach

outreach and being like so you you you tried to become likable by assembling a team that doesn't try and you lie to the fans fuck you can i what are you doing can i ask you a question guys all right all right let me serious question i'm going to the january 1st game okay why uh because i got a free why i got a free ticket i'm going to the december 23rd game for my kid and no other reason i am not paying to watch the leafs right now so my question you guys what joseph will january 1st will he have i don't know i don't need him to play january 1st will he have played yes yeah yeah i i say yes he's on a timeline where he's going to return hopefully by the end okay yeah will anthony so i'll admit that i was well anthony stolars has practiced by that point no no

holy shit are you serious you guys are that good dollars is in narnia is he gonna play ever again like what the fuck it's john mulaney has this bit about an airline i can't remember which one it is uh and that's how i feel watching the leafs i show up and they're like nice jersey fat and i'm like hey man and they then they pull down my pants and i go hey and they go you're a little bitch huh and i go no and they're like say it and i'm like i'm a little bitch and they're like that's right now give me all your money now give me all your money say give me all your money that's how i feel as a leafs fan it's absolutely horrible the raptors seem like they have the best day of their life every day of their lives the blue jays seem like every day is better than the last and then

there's the leafs you know that meme where there's the guy looking out the window at the sun and the other guy depressingly looking at the inside of a tunnel yeah i am i've i live my life in perpetuity looking at the inside of the tunnel as a leafs fan and like i like i i feel like a certain almost like responsibility to the fan base as the guy who has to watch every game you don't need to do this none of the rest of you need to do this you can take a break and i would encourage you to i like we're we're my son wants to see a game he doesn't ask for much he's he asked for one game a season we're taking him you will not see me in that building again and and trust me if i am in there after this you can be like what happened i'll be like i didn't pay hey we got

to record a podcast from scotia bank last year yeah yeah i'll be in a free in the ref's dressing room that was really cool what yeah are you yeah and was it the lead was it because of the lead no is that amazon oh it's because amazon oh my god what am i supposed to thank them for something they never gave me amazon was great amazon was awesome no no when we walked in the room andy patrillo grabbed me by the nose it went and then she pinched my nipple and said said attaboy clown boy and i went that's not very nice and then john forsling uh punched me in the balls by the way uh we'll end on this uh thomas hickey's like no we'll end on adam are you what's that and he pointed at my chest and

then he went like that and did the finger thing and was like stupid adam are you sitting with keith pelly am i sitting with him on the january 1st no no no no i don't think so ted i don't i yeah probably ted and tony tony staffieri ceo of rod okay uh no and you go keith how was your holidays and then he looks over at you and wordlessly spits in your popcorn and that's the end of your exchange welcome to the toronto may police nothing is good i should mention to you guys because we need to end the show but we don't have time to break it down so much but the thing that everybody assumed was happening is now happening kevin adams is no longer the general manager of the buffalo sabers oh breaking news yarmo kekalainen is as of one minute ago

wow and the reason they hey we caught it uh yeah we did we caught it we couldn't make the we couldn't say that earlier they couldn't make the change earlier uh was because yarmo was in finland because his father passed so very sad yeah very very sad so they had to kind of wait But something happened over the weekend. I'm not exactly sure what. And everybody's known about this for 72 hours. But it is now officially happened. Is he fired or ushered off to some other job in the organization?

That's a good question. I think it'd be awkward to fire your neighbor. So I would imagine. The reason Kevin Adams has a job is because him and Terry are just buds. T-Dog. He really likes him. And Kevin Adams worked in the business side of the Pagoola Enterprises and the Sabres. and he ran the youth hockey program or I think that was that's what it was yeah yeah and then

he was like I like this guy I'm gonna make a job with that yeah what I heard he did an okay job with yeah he was really good at that so I and then Kevin Terry was like I like this guy I'm gonna make him GM of my team and it's been disaster during his tenure so ding dong the witch is dead I hope Sabres fans are cheering for this moment because we could finally have this franchise turn around and be a good franchise that they deserve to be because Buffalo's such a good hockey market and you know what I love about this too for Buffalo is Yarmulke won so many playoff series with Columbus and tried to make Patrick Laine into a center I'm so pumped for them to listen at least they made the play now the at least Columbus made the play because at

least you have a person who knows how to do the job doing the job that's the bare minimum of somebody who should be employed to do a job and kevin adams wasn't even that knows yarmulke yarmulke line is a professional who can do this job and kevin adams was not the one thing i'll say because i praise tortorella's going to buffalo by the way oh my god that'd be i hope tortorella's going to buffalo no yes yes i hope yes the uh uh god now that's all i want you know i didn't know this existed a few seconds ago and now it's the only thing i want i don't i don't want my next breath as much as i want john tortorella to be the head coach of the sabers are you kidding me um listen uh yarmo has experience and honest to goodness knows what

he's doing um they gotta give him the ability to hire a couple folks because i praised it at the time when they brought him in because i'm like listen the sabers need more minds and not fewer um so i hope kakalainen's not just out there on his own god it's the fact that he's like actively grieving is such a really unfortunate part yeah of all this i hope they they get him the help he needs to run a professional sports team yes and these things rarely happen when it's convenient it just happens when it happens so anyway long story short we gotta wrap it looks like kevin adams is relieved of his duties based on terry regula's comments he says kevin adams has been relieved of his duties as general manager of the buffalo sabers i would like to thank kevin

for his dedication and loyalty to the buffalo sabers he's been a reliable presence and we are appreciative of his enduring care and commitment i personally wish him and his entire family all the best so it looks like he's being ushered out and it's not an interim like yarmo's the guy now yes and he has been named general manager yarmulke glenn has and he'll be overseeing hockey operations effective immediately this is the right thing to do it took way too long to get here we all knew he should have never had a job and they went on for this tool there's got to be a culture reset there yeah well we know yarmo is probably good until at least 2030 no matter how they do they always hang on to these guys so i mean you can't no that's the thing they didn't

hang on to anyone remember botterill do you know by the way do you want to hear a crazy stat sure i do remember botterill to jump on that and i'm sorry get ready for this get ready for this this is the third gm in sabers history with prior experience that's what the crazy fuck did you just say this is the third general manager in buffalo sabers history dating back 50 years that had prior general manager experience so do you see my point about like yarmo as at least a person who can do this job like a grown-up like a he has he has he has a resume yeah yeah the other guys didn't even have that yeah this is a step up holy shit

why are they bad i it's a good question who doesn't know how to run a hockey team uh it doesn't kevin adams according to the saber report was 178 196 and 42 a 478 points percentage good enough for 26 in the nhl over the course of his time that's honestly better lower yeah what who's lower though well over that time team wise i would think like the sharks blackhawks blackhawks yeah anaheim and look what those teams have to show for it they're really fun exciting young teams that look like they're on the verge of making the playoffs well there's only so many towering defenseman one can draft honestly i feel like they kind of need to do other things but anyway uh that's it man that's it for us you like you like say you like leafs hockey now not so bad

is it no that's pretty bad there's rumors that they're trying to move bo byram to the canucks to try and get quinn hughes actually yeah they were in on they were in on the traits the things they were trying to dangle yeah yeah just like how i in like grade three tried to offer the cool kids my apple for their dunkaroos yeah i'll think about it it's gonna take a little bit more here fellas yeah anyway that's your story for today let's hit the extra oh what a show lots of news we didn't really get to every stream tomorrow night or not i do tuesday and thursday this week And tomorrow night's important because it's Joe Bowen night. And so whether they show that on TV or not, they should.

Joe Bowen being honored tonight at Chicago Blackhawks.