The Swiftie and The Scholar - Fate vs. Free Will in The Prophecy

Episode Date: April 23, 2026

We are getting witchy today as we dive deep into The Prophecy from Taylor Swift’s 2024 album, The Tortured Poets Department. Uncle Jerry teaches us about some specific references to tarot and the occult in literature, and how that shaped a few of his interests. Angela tells the story of a tarot reading that Taylor received from a friend, and how she thinks it inspired this song.  Works Cited:The Collected Poems of W.B. Yeats – William Butler Yeats – Aff LinkRosicrucian FellowshipThe Secrets of the Belline Oracle – Sylvie Steinbach – Aff LinkCrowley Thoth Tarot DeckVisconti-Sforza Tarot Cards – The Morgan LibraryVisconti Sforza Tarot Cards Cards – Stuart R. Kaplan – Aff LinkMiniature Rider-Waite® Tarot – Pamela C. Smith – Aff LinkRider Waite Gold Foil Tarot Deck – Aff LinkThe Original Rider Waite: The Pictorial Key To The Tarot: An Illustrated Guide – A.E. Waite – Aff LinkTarot Revelations – Joseph Campbell, Richard Roberts – Aff Link A to z Horoscope Maker and Delineator – Llewellyn George – Aff LinkA Treatise on the Astrolabe – Geoffrey Chaucer – Aff LinkAntithesis – Rhetorical DeviceGimpel the Fool: And Other Stories – Isaac Bashevis Singer – Aff LinkThe Miller’s Tale – Geoffrey ChaucerMorphology of the Folktale – V. Propp – Aff LinkAarne-Thompson-Uther IndexTaylor Swift’s Tarot Card Revelation Proves None of Travis Kelce Romance Was AccidentalInclusioThe Swiftie and The Scholar Grading MatrixFollow Us:Patreon⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠Threads⁠Angela’s Instagram⁠Uncle Jerry’s Instagram

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Are you one of those media strategy people clicking through slides, scrolling spreadsheets? Yes? Good. This is for you. Because on Spotify, there's an audience that's different. Locked in. Loyal, invested. They're called fans. Fans don't just listen to music. They feel seen by it, like it belongs to them. So when your brand shows up on Spotify, that's who you're talking to. And you're right next to artists like me, Lizzo. So, are you ready to talk to fans? Spotify Advertising. You're among fans. Welcome to The Swiftie and The Scholar, the podcast where we examine the lyrics, lore, and literary legacy of Taylor Swift.

I am Angela McDowell the Swifty. And I am Dr. Jerry Coates, the Scholar. How are you doing? You know, I've been looking forward to this. Good. Yeah, because we recorded August, Betty, and Cardigan in a marathon session. Certainly did. And it's been a couple weeks now.

Yeah, and you had to drive home after that. Yeah, that was exactly. No, Chase was here. Oh, that's right. I got to ride home. Okay, good. Yeah, I just got to sit. Because I have to admit to you, I went in there and lay down on the couch and I said, I got to watch something to get my mind off that and I fell right asleep.

I was also exhausted. Everybody was like, Uncle Jerry seemed hungry because you were like, let's go have dinner, like three times. No, it was fun, though. It was good. It was fun. I liked those three pieces together. I like that whole idea of, you know, trying to examine the Rishamon effect. And I don't know.

It's fun. Yeah. But we have something. Completely different. Totally different today. Today we're going to get witchy with it. Okay. Today we are doing the prophecy.

This is actually this song that our patrons chose. Prophecy. Yes. Okay, good. That's from a movie in case you didn't know. I didn't. I thought you were just having a moment. No, it's actually from a movie.

The prophecy, speaking of movies, always just makes you think of Harry Potter. Oh, is that right? Because he has the prophecy, like, in the ball, you know, that they go and, like, they have to be serious black guys. Let's see. No spoilers. Yeah, I have a prophecy in this. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and all that do is like smash it or something and it will speak to me.

Except it's like real rock, so I don't know. Not easy to smash, probably. No, probably not. Okay, the prophecy. The prophecy. This is chosen by our patrons. We did like a March. This is going to be a weird one today, I think.

I'm ready. Yeah, just set it there. Perfect. Okay. Good. Um, Patreon chose this. We did like a March Madness tournament of a bunch of songs. I think we had 32 songs. And we, um, went round by round. And the prophecy is what ended up being the one that they want to hear your thoughts on the most. Okay. Um, which I'm excited. I love this song. I, probably about a year ago, it like hit for me, probably around the same time that Peter and the Bolter also hit for me. Um, this is from the second half of the tortured poets department. So that, um, the anthology. the second, the surprise double album that we didn't know was coming. I didn't know.

Yeah. Actually, it's almost today, today that we're recording this is the two-year anniversary of Tortured Poets Department. Happy anniversary. I must have gotten sleep since the last time we did. Thank you. You must have, and I have not. I think I see the grim.

Okay. This is the prophecy. is written and produced by Taylor and Aaron Dessner. We're losing our prophecy? Yeah, I thought I'd get it out of your way. It's not in my way. Okay. And that's kind of it.

This one is very fun and witchy, and I do kind of think that this song is exactly the culmination of all of Taylor's work up until that point. Okay. It really kind of, I think, rounds it all out and says, like, this is what I've been writing about and hoping for my whole life, and why am I not getting it?

That's what I was going to say. Okay. Take it away. Well, let's see. First of all, yes, there are tarot cards here. Yes. Yeah. And, of course, so why would I know anything at all about tarot cards?

Because, you know something about everything. I know everything about something. Okay, so here is the, um, the dark secret about my fetish for tarot cards, I do collect them. Yeah, I have more than 60 decks up there on a bookshelf, all stacked up and stuck back. And so, of course, it begs the question.

Why? Why, yes. Actually, I read the poetry of William Butler Yates. Okay. And I love William Butler Yates as a grad student, and I read a biography of them. It's still back on my shelf. And one of the things that you discover about William Butler Yates is that he was a master of a Rosen Christian fellowship.

He was interested in the occult. Many of his poems referred to tarot cards. And so I became interested in tarot cards. So that was like a, like you said in grad school. Oh, yeah, in grad school. This was a long time ago. Okay. So like from my whole life.

Yeah, don't hold. Thank you. Yes. You weren't quite born yet. Yes, thank you for reminding everyone that Uncle Jerry is old. Yeah, it was in the 80s. I'm from the 80s too. Yeah, okay.

Thank you, Blondie. So, yes, I got interested in tarot cards. I joined a Rosa Christian fellowship via the mail. It was in California. So I don't know. I became interested in them, and so I started collecting them. I have all kinds of tarot cards, and I took down some samples to just show off. Look.

I mean, I don't, I branched out. I not only collect tarot cards, but I collect all, this is the Oracle Belleen. Oh, yeah. Yeah, she was a prognosticator in the 1960s, and she took an older deck and kind of made a 53 card set of kind of prophecy cards, if you will. This is old. Oh, yeah, this is, yeah, I'm sorry, this is the, you can see the, I've taped up. Yeah. I know.

So I used to do tarot card readings. I used to go to fairs and things like that. What? Yeah, and I would do tarot card readings. These are cool. Yeah, this is my favorite deck. So this is the Alistair Crowley Tooth deck. So it's got these really, really nice illustrations.

Oh, you can actually see that. Yeah. Yeah. It's got really nice illustrations that I love. Yeah, those are fancy. Yeah. These are really fun, so I used to use this deck. I mean, I literally have had this deck for 40 years.

I have a brand new one. That's the same? Yes, exactly the same. It's never been unwrapped. It's back up there. And so I just keep it in its pristine shape. I have a copy of the oldest tarot cards. So this is the Visconti Svorsa deck.

So this Conti Svorsa were. And a couple, yeah, these are cool. This is a reproduction, obviously. The real ones are actually in three different collections around Europe. Like you can go see them or people have them. Yeah, they're on display. There is no single copy remaining of these cars because they were handmade and hand-painted. So you can, you know, you kind of see they're really, really beautiful.

Yeah. And so this is a facsimile reproduction. So this is the size of the original cards. And it was made for these Italian families probably in the mid-1400s. Whoa. Yeah, kind of fun. And so, oh. This is the one I have, but the regular size.

The rider weight. Yeah, this is the rider weight. Yeah, I have that one. And I was like, I need to get those before I leave. And then I forgot. And I was like, it's going to be fine. Uncle Jerry, that's a lot. I had this little tiny one, and it's a mini deck, so you can carry it with you anywhere you go.

So, yeah, this is the rider weight. They're so cute. I know, aren't they? I had to get it. As a matter of fact, I had to get it. I know this is when you know you're dealing with a collector because I have one that I actually carry and use, and then I have another one up there. It's unwrapped. It's like keeping your favorite toy in the box.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, I have a riderweight mini. Just in case. All unwrapped. But this is the most recent one I bought. I know. Anytime it's got a magnetic closure.

So this is actually a right or wait, but it's done in this beautiful black and gold foil. Oh my goodness. Can you see that? Yeah, you can see that. So this is the adverse side. And then these are the cards themselves. So cool.

People are going to be so impressed that you have. So shiny. Another thing. It's another thing. I know it really is. I mean, it's kind of crazy. I got way into it. And mostly through poetry.

I mean, you know, it was Yates' poetry that made me think, okay, so how and why are these important Yates? What do they mean? So I started studying. I got the pictorial guide to the poet, to the tarot. This is by A.E. Wait. So A.E. Weight was the riderweight deck, right? So A.E. Waite was a British occultist, and it's also someone who Yates studied and met. So, yeah. So, you know, that's the way.

I mean, this is the Joseph Campbell book on taro. Yeah, I know I've got lots of these. Wait, does that say, sorry, I've never looked at this section of your books shelf here. Does that say A to Z horoscope maker? A delineator. Yeah. Yeah. I can talk about that.

So this is the cabala, and this is a book about the Kabbalah. Okay, yeah. One of the layouts you use when you do tarot card layouts is the Kabbalistic tree of life layout. So I usually use the Tree of Life or I use the Celtic Cross, which is a really nice card layout. And I can also do the four card daily. So if you want your daily run after this. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, after it, not during it.

I just got into tarot and astrology in the pandemic. Because there was nothing else. I mean, I was, like, kind of into it before. But then I, like, bought a bunch of books and started, like... Visit BetMGM Casino and check out the newest exclusive. The Price is Right Fortune Pick. BetMDM and Game Sense remind you to play responsibly. 19 plus to wager.

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Okay, so this is a fun story. You were there for a second for this story, but you left. Now I'm wishing you kind of would have stayed. At my bachelorette party slash wedding shower was hosted by your daughter. And I wanted to do a Taylor Swift theme, but I also wanted to make it kind of witchy and tarotie. And so I did what was, the theme was the Aura's tour. Oh, okay. Instead of the Ares tour.

And so everything was Taylor themed, but then we had an aura photographer and a tarot card reader. Okay. And so we all got readings. We all got our aura photographed. And then like everything else was like Taylor themed. Like there were tailor decorations. There were Taylor puns for all the food. Wow.

Okay. It was very fun. That's all on my Instagram, my personal account. There's like a couple of reels about it and a story highlight that y'all can go look at. Have you ever had your aura charged or massaged? No. Okay, well, I have. Where?

Well, actually, I was going up to Denton to when I was learning taro back in the 80s. And I really kind of, I was doing it mostly by my own reading and by taking the correspondence course through the California Rosa Christians. And I thought, you know, I'd really like to check this to say how authentic it is. I couldn't call William Butler Yates because he was dead. And I couldn't summon him. Not yet. No. So I happened to be at an occult bookstore in Dallas when I was buying another tarot card deck.

And there was an advertisement for a witch who gave lessons in Denton. And so I made an appointment with her and went up and took some lessons from her. She was very good. I mean, she was very patient with me because she was very patient with me because she was. She knew that although I don't subscribe to what they purport to be able to do, nevertheless, I wanted to know how they work. So I could understand the literature better. And she was very nice.

And she, on my second lesson, she asked if it was okay to bring a friend in, she was an aura master. And I said, that's great. And she brought a friend, and she gave aura charging. She essentially stands over you and rolls her hands around, never touches you, but massages and charges your aura. Did you feel different after that? Yeah, I said I couldn't tell if it was better either or a before or after.

And as I recall, she didn't like the humor. I would assume not. No. Well, that's fascinating. Yeah. This is all fascinating. Do you think? Yes.

Are you guys really going to find this interesting? Yes, they will. Okay. It's in the prophecy. I'm telling you. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, shall we talk about the poem? Yeah, one more story.

Okay. Um, I just went on a trip with my friends to Asheville and we are all friends because of Taylor, like online friends. It's a long story. But, um, we, when we get together, we like to do PowerPoint parties. As you know, I love to make a PowerPoint. That's what hooked me. Um, and we decided this time to do your perfect Taylor album. And we, the only role was 15.

songs and you could it could be whatever you want it to be so it could be like you know a sonically cohesive it could tell an album it could tell a story it could be your favorite songs that you just think all go together like anything and i actually did two because i i did one and then i was like well i have another idea and mine was my second one was um the album was called invisible string which is another Taylor song and the prophecy was the first song on that perfect album and I did it all about um all of her it was all the songs that where she talks about like fate and stars and astrology and you know the universe like being in charge of our our fate and stuff and so that was like my second perfect Taylor album that's fun yeah so you guys did like power points to prove your point and

who won there was no winner oh we we're all we're all the winners Oh. Okay. So, yeah, that was just like this, this is kind of coming at a perfect time that Patreon wanted to do this one because it's all fresh in my head from making that PowerPoint. I mean, I have to admit, I was kind of excited for this because I, I mean, I like tarot cards. And when I saw it in her work, I thought, oh, that's pretty funny. Yeah. And I hadn't really, I hadn't thought about tarot in literature for a little while. Oh, yeah. So it really took you back.

Yeah, it really did. took me back. I was really interested. I'll tell you one more story and that is I when I got this book. I want that book so bad. I'm going to buy that right now. Yeah, the horoscope by Llewell and George and it tells you how to create a natal horoscope and yeah and and what what it all means. And so I studied and studied and it took me months to learn how to do it. And by the time I thought that I was really getting proficient, someone made a computer program where you can just put in your data birth and location and it pops out the whole natal chart. And I was pretty upset. Yeah, that is upsetting.

I mean, I learned a lot by learning how to do it. Yeah, I think that's probably a crucial step. Because I haven't learned how to do that. I just go to those online things and say, make me a chart. There you go. You know, Chaucer actually wrote a, um, He wrote a book. It's not a big book.

He wrote a short work, I guess I should say, called a treatise on the astrolabe. And he sent it to a son, and he asked his son to translate it back to him. And so it's kind of fun. To see if he looks understanding. Yeah, and proficient in languages and understood how to use an astrolabe. So if you've ever seen the movie The Name of the Rose, the Sean Conry character has one. he has an astrolabe that when one of the monks comes to his room he quickly covers up because they were methods of divination which was kind of against the law or it was seen to be handling your own

future when you should be relying on God so right right which which is why these tarot cards got a bad name I think you know that I mean some people believe they're they're like anti-christian well you know yeah they feel very yeah but But it's not. It's, most of the imagery is religious imagery. It's very, yeah. Right.

And a great deal of it is, in fact, Christian imagery. And some of it's not. Some of it belongs to other religious traditions. But it is, it is a religious imagery. Which, you know, in itself was interesting to me because, you know,

my dissertation in history is on history of religion. Right. So kind of fun. Kind of ties it all together. Right, it does. Yeah. But, yeah, I was really disappointed when I learned how to do the horoscope, and all of a sudden there's a computer program that just pops it out. Cheaters.

I know, cheater. The prophecy. Right, the prophecy. So, obviously, I read the title, and it's something prophetic. And I did wonder what we might see in the way of divination. And I wasn't disappointed. Yeah, it's all there. It's there.

Although with the first line, I didn't think it was going to go that direction. You know, it starts off hand on the throttle. And I thought, okay, so what kind of hand on the throttle? You know, usually they talk about a foot to the pedal to the metal, right, or your foot's on that throttle. And I thought, well, a train has a throttle that you have to hold by hand. It has what's called a Dead Man switch where you have to keep a lever pull. down and you have to hold it. So if you ever let go of it, the train will immediately power down.

Oh, okay. That makes sense. Right. The same thing's true of steamboats. They also have a throttle. So I was kind of interested in, I wonder what she's envisioning for what she's on. But hand on the throttle had an antique sound to it. Okay.

Yeah. So I was kind of anticipating perhaps an antique story. and then it also puts her in the driver's seat, right, if she's in the throttle. So she's in charge. She's in charge. She's always surging forward. And then I started thinking about the word throttle. I mean, I wondered, did she choose it because it has an antique sound?

Is it because it shows her in the driver's seat? And then I thought about to throttle someone means to choke them. So I wondered, wait a minute, is this one? one of her, I'd like to choke the guy. Interesting. Yeah, because to throttle someone is to put her hands about them and to choke them. Oh, and then, yeah, the next two lines, because it's like, well, that was, that, that's over. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Yes, it's like the next line comes up and it's thought I had caught lightning in a bottle. Okay, that's an idiom to catch a sudden dramatic success. And here's lightning again. We've seen that in her other song. I sound so knowledgeable about Taylor Swift now that I have 35 songs. That's what, is that like 15% of her total output?

Maybe, yeah. Well. But she thought she had caught, but no, it's gone again. And it is a general reference pronoun. Okay, there is no noun antecedent. And so I think that she doesn't. purposefully. She understands a bit of grammar. Yes. So I think

that she wants us as the reader, or as a song listener, but certainly for me as a reader. I still haven't heard the song. I am really curious. I love this one. Okay. I really am interested. I want to know if it has a spooky sound or if it's a little angry or just what.

Yeah. Yeah, she wants me as a reader to ask, well, what is it? Yeah, what's gone again? Right, what's gone again? And since it's again, I think it's probably a relationship, another lost relationship. So, yeah, I'm putting the three lines together, and I'm thinking, oh, I wonder if she intentionally has ambiguity.

Take your first drink of the day. I wonder if she hasn't, you know, that is one of her poetic techniques is intentional ambiguity. Yes. I'm wondering if she's being ambiguous with the word throttle to mean to surge forward or to choke somebody. Yeah. Right. And I think she might mean both in this context. Interesting.

Never considered it. Yeah, that's fun. I like it. I mean, I like what she does with ambiguity because she's very purposeful with it. So it's gone again. And I'm thinking, oh, darn, is this going to be another one of those? I'm so sad I lost my love poems, but it's not. It's better than that.

And it was written. Okay, it sounds very biblical. both Jesus and Paul in the New Testament say it is written and then they quote some passage or other right this is just how things are going to be right yeah and I also thought of the the expression written in the stars which is also sort of Shakespearean there's a form of it in one of his plays so written in the stars could be prophetic right and so now I'm thinking oh yeah it's your fate your prophecy yeah it's right it's right prophecy, it's fate. And so I'm thinking, oh, this is getting interesting. So it's illusion, right? It's kind of a reference to biblical literature, but also maybe prophetic literature. It was written. Okay, so what's written? I got cursed, like Eve got bitten, or was it punishment? So I love the, it's both an illusion and a simile, right? So I'm like Eve, and it's a reference to Eve from the Old Testament.

She got bitten by a snake. And was that punishment? I don't know. By the way, there is a whole theological discussion about that. You know, a fourth century writer, sorry, it's time for your Bible lesson, kids. Wait, hold on. It's time for your Bible lesson, kids. And can you tell what just changed?

Yeah, find what changed behind us. It's like one of those old magazine things where you have... Find the difference. Yeah, find the difference between this goose and that goose. She's the goose. So, no. Silly goose. Okay, so there's a fourth century writer, Augustine of Hippo or Augustine of Hippo.

And he writes that, you know, that this is original sin. Well, the phrase original sin never appears in the Bible. This is his theological idea. but it has seized hold of the way most people interpret the Bible that, you know, Adam and Eve's fall is somehow an original sin. There's a lot of other literature, a lot of theologians also say a lot of Jewish theologians as well, an 11th century theologian, says that he thinks it's in fact intentional that God wants us out of the Garden of Eden because he wants us to have free will. Okay. So, you know, she eats, she eats of the, prior to eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, she has no knowledge of good and evil.

So how does she know what's good and what's bad? Oh, and how does she know she's doing right if you don't know? God said it was wrong, but the snake said it was okay. Who are you going to believe? God put the snake in the, in the garden. All of this is problematic. Yeah, I mean, it is. So it is, there are a number of theological questions.

like the fact that Taylor Swift says, I got cursed like Eve got bitten or was it punishment? So was it a gift to go out and seek your free will or was it punishment that you get ejected from a so-called perfect relationship? I don't know, you know, she's got to discover that. That's interesting. Right? So, yeah, I mean, I like the allusion to Eve because I think she's doing something fairly complicated with it. Yeah, it seems like it.

Right. So, I mean, the question about Eve is, is she ejected from the garden as a matter of punishment? So she has to endure pain and childbirth and eventual death. Or is this a kind of gift of free will where humanity gets to discover our own needs, wants, desires? You know, and all of that is the question she's asking of the prophet, you know, who can tell me this prophecy, you know, am I being punished? because I keep losing relationships? Or is this because there's a better relationship out there and I'm supposed to seek it as a matter of my free will? Wow. I get goosebumps. Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

So I liked it. And maybe I'm making too much of the whole Eve illusion. No, that's amazing. Yeah, but I liked it. I thought that that was really fun. So she says pad around when I get home. You know, her word choice, her diction is really fun. And so you've got to stop and say pad, walking quietly.

Yeah. And you think of the pads of your feet, the soles of your feet. So, I mean, is she walking without shoes on? Is she barefooted? Is she pacing? It feels like there's a sense of comfort and at-homeness with the word pad. Pat around when I get home. Interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. I guess a lesser woman would have lost hope. a greater woman wouldn't beg but I looked to the sky and said we gotta stop so the lesser woman lost hope the greater woman wouldn't beg

are both idiomatic right they're kind of idiom it's also a technique called antithesis so you've got these anathetical rhetoric so lesser versus greater lost hope versus begging it's also juxtaposition or foil writing

where you've got two different women and you're supposed to reflect back and forth on them and they're in kind of a binary opposition Yeah I always So this this little segment right here Like pat around when I get home I've never thought of it as like

Home is like kind of a comfort Like that's your home You know like that's where you feel the most yourself maybe But I always just picture her like she's just at home, like, pacing around and then saying a lesser woman would have lost hope and a greater woman wouldn't beg. That always to me is, like, she's talking about herself as she's just, like, a normal girl, like, in the middle, a normal woman in the middle. Like, she's just an average woman. Right, yeah.

Which, like, she's obviously not, but at the same time, she's just a human woman, you know? When you're at home and you got your shoes off. Yeah. Yes. You're just a girl. Right. Yeah. You know, there's a great saying by Robert Heinlein.

He wrote in one of his novels. He's a science fiction writer. He said, everyone looks equally stupid on a commode. Twizzlers keep the fun going. Yeah, I know. I just stopped whatever you were listening to to tell you that Twizzlers keep the fun going. Well, irony isn't my forte,

but twisty, chewy, yummy Twisler sure is. So think of Twislers as a little palette cleanser for whatever's queued up. which, by the way, should be coming very soon. Like any second now. Okay, Twizzlers, time to keep the fun going. It really caught me off going, but that's very true, though. It's just like, we're all just humans.

When you're at home and you got your, when you got your socks off and your feet up, or you're just messing around the house, you're just walking back and forth, asking yourself, what is going on, when is this going to happen? Yeah, you're just being very human. Yeah.

Okay, so you go back up to Eve, And I think that ties up with Eve because, you know, like I said, the question about Eve is, is she being punished and ejected? And does she have to submit to pain and death? Or is this a kind of gift? I mean, I can't put it to humanity to be free, to be given that choice in life. Yeah, to go live your life, how you choose to live your life. Right. And so a lesser woman would would live.

look on that as having lost hope. Oh, no, I'm going to live in pain and die, you know. But a greater woman wouldn't beg for it back. I don't want back in the Garden of Eden. I mean, I'll say it again. I don't, and own it, I don't want back in the Garden of Eden. I want to be free to make my own choices so that at the end of life, if there is a summation, that we can sum that up and say, well, he was either a jerk and talked about people in commodes or he was not a bad guy, you know. Right. Yeah, I mean, he tried to do right by his family and by people at work and by friends. Yeah, I mean, so I'm not going to beg to be back in the Garden of Eden.

I'm going to be okay. Interesting. Yeah, I like that antithetical rhetoric that's going on here, both with Eve and with the lesser and greater woman. Okay, this is just occurring to me now that Cassandra is the song after this on the album. So it goes to the prophecy and then Cassandra. Oh, who is prophetic? Yeah, so that's fun. But also in Cassandra, she's also talking about, like, you know, patching up the, she's at home and she's patching up the cracks on the walls.

And I've never connected that. Like, both of these are her, like, at home. Oh, that's great. Like at home in a bad moment. Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's the deal is you take your good moments, your bad moments home with you every night. Yeah.

You just do. You kick your shoes off and you pat around and you try to assess, you know, where is this all going? Right. Exactly. Or sometimes you look up and you say, please. I mean, the first time I read this, I have to admit, I laughed out loud when I hit the word, please. I know. It's so fun, but I look to the sky and said, A Greater Woman in bed.

but I look to the sky and said. Yeah, and I'm anxious to hear the song, you know, again, for those of you who are first time listeners and still with us. After the come out and talk. I have never heard these songs, so, you know, not having heard this song before, I'm interested to know how much of a pause there is between I look to the sky and said,

you know, is she talking to God, talking to the stars, talking to the prophetic, you know, beings and elements. And the only thing she says is please A single plaintive word I've been on my knees Okay so we have to talk poetry just a little bit Okay, okay So, you know, she really does have nice rhyme going

If you go back up to the first verse, Throttle and Bottle Written and Bitten You know, she doesn't do it in every line but she does it often enough that she's sort of playing with rhyme. There's no consistent rhythmic pattern. But most of the lines are at least six syllables, and then you get to the single line in the chorus, please.

It really kind of makes it, like, stand out. It's emphatic, yeah. Yeah, and that's something that all good poets do is when they do alter the rhythmic pattern, they alter it in a way that is trying to get a message to the reader. Right. And the message is, she really needs help, right? Please, I've been on my knees.

Okay. This could be ambiguous. Okay. Wait, let me try to get there. Okay, so I'm always thinking I've been on my knees because I'm begging. Yeah. But also. Oh, like you're down, like you're down on the ground.

Like you're down and out. Yes, like you've been knocked to your knees. Okay, okay. You know, I get knocked down. And I get up again. But I get up again. You're never going to keep me down. Chabababwamba or whatever that's going.

Chumbabwamba. Chumbabwamba. Tub thumping, I don't know. What a classic, though. It is great. I bought that whole album. Remember when you just have to do that? Yeah.

By the whole album for that one song? I did. I bought a whole CD for that one song. And it's like, oh, I just wanted that one, really. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I thought it was, there's a level of ambiguity going on here. been on my knees. She's on her knees praying. She's on her knees because she's been knocked down

by life. You know, she's on her knees because she's like down and out. So, yeah, I liked the expression. Yeah, that's fun. So she uses it both figuratively and literally. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So literally she's on her knees praying, but figuratively her, she's been emotionally knocked down. Yeah, so. She wants, she says, change the prophecy. Do it. Just change it. And, of course, that begs the question, is this possible?

You know, I don't know. If it's a prophecy. It just is written. It is written, yeah. She says that up in a previous line. But we don't want that to be true. But she doesn't want it, no. She says, don't want money.

of course, I am going to have to pause and say people with money can very easily say, I never wanted money, you know, while they're counting. Right. And, you know, but nevertheless, I understand she would be willing to give up her wealth. Yeah, like I'll give it up for. Right. For just someone who wants my company. You know, and when I saw wants my company, but wait, does she own the record company? She is the record company.

Does the word company, is it ambiguous? Oh, God. I'm going to go, I'm going to choose no-up for the sake of my brain on this one. You know, it didn't work for me. I don't think that she wants someone to buy her record catalog over again. Yeah, I think that she means literally her companions. Somebody that wants to hang out. Right.

Yeah, which she's been writing about forever. There's a song on Red called Stay, Stay, Stay, Stay. and she's like, I've, and it's about, it's like not about a relationship, it's about like an imagined relationship where she's like, this is what I want. And she says, I was thinking it might be nice. I can't think of how it exactly goes, but she says to hang out for the rest of our lives, basically, you know, we're just going to hang out. And then also this section, which I know we haven't done this and we need to,

but Elizabeth Taylor, she says in that song, which we know is the first song that she wrote for the life of a showgirl Elizabeth Taylor was the first one that was written so this was like very early on in the her relationship with Travis when that song was written it's the only one that has a little bit of like anxiety about like will this work out and she says I would trade the Cartier for someone to trust but then she follows it with just kidding Because, like, actually, yeah, I can't have it all and I do want to have it all, you know? But, like, if I needed to, like, maybe I would give it all up, you know? Right.

Yeah, I guess. Would she? Yeah, I mean, who knows? Yeah. What if she just gave half of it? Let's say a billion. Yeah, but I don't want to make fun of her for having money, you know. I understand the emotional anxiety that she's dealing with here in the song.

So, yeah, in the text of the poem. I'm willing to be a forgiving reader and say, she just wants someone to be with. And she says, let it once be me. And of course, let it be is a Beatles song. I think there is a song I didn't look it up, let it once be. But I have to look that up and see.

And, you know, who do I have to speak to? You know, now it should be with whom do I have to speak. But you realize the use of the word, whom, has almost entirely fallen out of the English language, especially in American, in standard edge at American English, we're supposed to use whom, but when we speak, almost no one says. Rarely, yeah. Right. So who do I have to speak to?

About if they can redo the prophecy. She wants a retake. Yeah. Yeah, let's go back. Yeah, and she's like, who's in charge here? Who do I have to speak to? Is it God? Is it these planets?

Is it the fates? Is it the stars? Something. Someone has got to be able to fix this. Yeah. Yeah. Then she turns to tarot cards. Yes.

I don't know if this is, you know, when I first read cards on the table, immediately, obviously it's a cliche, a famous cliche, an idiom that says, let's open up, let's be transparent, right? Yeah, my cards are on the table. Right. My cards are on the table. Here's what I've got. What is.

have you got. But I do have to say since the title of the work was prophecy, even on my first reading, what popped into my head, what tarot cards. That was for me too. It instantly, I was like, oh, she's, because she talks about cards a lot, like, um, playing

cards. And I feel like that was a lot of people's first reaction, but, and maybe it is ambiguous in that line, but I feel like she's specifically just talking about tarot cards. Right. I, I do too. And a read, a tarot card reading. Yeah, I probably should have prepared this.

Have you seen The Fool? Mm-hmm. Not in that deck, though. But if you look at The Fool, you know, she says after the cards on the table, mine play out like fools in a fable. So here's the Fool. Or you could probably find a nice picture of the Fool. The Fool.

Yeah, you can see that well. Okay. So, yeah, the Fool is, he has the sun over his shoulder. He looks like he's doing pretty. too well, a rose in his hand, a stave with a satchel, or sometimes it's a gourd, a double-represented gourd. In this particular one, it's a satchel, and he's walking straight off a cliff, looking straight up at the sky.

And his dog is kind of leaping, and the question is, is the dog jumping off the cliff too, or is the dog trying to get him to stop? Trying to get him to stop. Yeah. And it's usually interpreted as the dog is trying to get him to stop. There is a Hebrew idiom from non-canonical Hebrew literature that says a fool walks with his dog behind him. Right. The idea is that, you know, the dog, if you're in an ancient society or if you're a shepherd, you know, the dog should be going out in front of you.

so it can see if there are any dangerous animals or any enemies or there's a cliff or something like that. But this guy walks with the dog behind him because, well, guess what, he's a fool. And she says the fool's in a fable and that made me wonder what fable is she talking about? She's not just talking about the card, but is she talking about, I wrote down Gimple the Fool,

which is an Isaac, but she was seeing short story about a character who's kind of a fool. His wife cheats on him, poor guy. And so there are a number of fools in Chaucer. The Miller's tale, the poor old Miller is pretty foolish. So there are a number of fools in different fables. None of them ever come to any good. Right.

You know, being the fool has your wife cheat on you, has your daughter become a cheat? have you losing all your money, losing all your livestock, all the stories of fools always play out poorly for the fool. And she says, mine plays out like fools in a fable. So we should probably stop and admire the use of alliteration. Yes. Right, the Fs and fools and fable. You know, a lesser writer would have said fools in a story.

Right. Right. Yeah. Oh, it was sinking in, sinking in, oh, slow is the quicksand, poison blood from the wound of the pricked hand. You know, usually I don't like two-word rhymes, but quicksand and pricked hand. Yeah, it's kind of fun. It's kind of fun. I liked that, yeah.

So I do have to say I like this whole passage because you've got the quicksand, which is a metaphor, right, for light. is sucking her under to her death. It's, you know, loneliness. She's sinking the gradual process of realization that none of this is working out, that the stars and cards are aligned against me. That's fun, like, sinking in on the line above. As she's saying, like, I'm understanding that I'm always going to be the fool. Right.

But then when you put it with the line underneath it, so it was sinking in, and then she's like, I'm sinking in quicksand. Yes. And also fun that slow is the quick. So the use of sinking is not only idiomatic, but it's also ambiguous. Yeah. Take a drink. Because sinking, she has a sinking feeling, so emotionally sinking, but also literally sinking in the sand.

And then you've got poison blood from the wound of the pricked hand. Obviously a sleeping beauty reference. She's bringing in your fairy tales that you have. is. This is, I looked it up just so those of you who have your morphology of the fairy tale handy. Okay, yes. Yeah. This is number 410 on the Arn Thompson scale. Okay. So, you know, Stith Thompson. Arn and Thompson are the two that create this whole list of different fairy tales. They cataloged them. So this is number 410. There are a number of stories where the young girl, usually pre-pubescent girl is told by way of a prophecy,

hence the use here, that she's going to be pricked. And in some of them she's going to get a piece of flax stuck in her finger or under her fingernail. So flax is actually, would be something that a common person would make. You know, flax is a stalky plant. Okay. So you take the flax and you cut the stalks and then you lay it in a river or you soak them and you take them out and you crack it. And the hard shell comes off and you have all these nice pieces of stringy flax. And then you can weave it together.

Okay, gotcha. But it has these little slivers in that process. And so you can get them stuck in your hand and it's really painful. or it's a spinning wheel, you know, in the classic Disney story, it's a spinning wheel. Staples Preferred Business Membership, built for busy business owners, because you've got bigger things to think about. With Staples Preferred, get free delivery, no minimums. Staples Preferred unlocks up to 3% back, plus 10% savings on print and exclusive wireless offers.

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to survive and reach the gut alive. When it comes to gut health, Activia is the number one family doctor-recommended probiotic yogurt brand. Choose Activia. Feel good from the inside out. Visit activia.ca for more details. And that that prophecy for sleeping beauty is that she has to, she goes to sleep. Yes.

And the only thing that can wake her up is true love. Yeah. So you have the evil witch, the evil prophetess who says that she's going to get pricked and she'll die. And then you have the good fairies who say, well, we can't do away with the whole prophecy, but we can change it slightly. Right. And the change is she'll only go to sleep until she is awakened when true love's first kiss. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Right. So in that case, the prophecy does change. Uh-huh. Which is, I wondered why, if she's using it here, because Cinderella, in the Disney sense, is a story of a changed prophecy.

Okay. So is that like a tiny bit of hope in there that maybe it can change? Little bit of hope. Yes. Pull that sliver out and she's going to awaken and to her true love. Interesting. Yes. The last line of the verse, Oh, still I dream of him.

The prince who will come and awaken her. Yeah, because she's a sleeping beauty. Right. So she's dreaming. Okay. Okay. Interestingly enough, in the Arn Thompson number 410 index,

where they mention both the flak stories and the needle stories, put the kids to bed now when the prince comes he pulls the flax out from underneath her fingernail or he awakens her with a kiss only after he has sex with her and so she is impregnated while she's asleep that feels like rape to me it's not great no but you understand that these stories come out of other cultures

where yeah the masculine hegemony is pretty firmly established too. So again, as a feminist reader, I read that part of it and go, yeah, someone needs to be prosecuted right now. I mean, she's asleep and you have sex

with her. Straight to jail. Yes. So, but, yeah, she's looking for that man who will be her response to Sleeping Beauty. Maybe not necessarily the whole thing.

The Disney. version. She wants the Disney version, I think is pretty clear. Yeah. Then we go to the chorus and she's back on her knees. Please, she plaintively cries. I've been on my knees. I've been down here, right?

She's been, so again, we had that and, you know, the ambiguity of meaning. She's been knocked down time and again. She's prayed time and again. So I think that both are in charge. Change the prophecy. Don't want money. Just someone who wants my company.

Let it once be me. I like the infusion of the word once. I didn't mention before. You know, it's just one time. That's all I'm asking for. And I want the one-time guy. You know, I don't want the guy for six months or six years. I want the one-time guy.

So love the word once. It has a multitative meaning. I didn't use the word ambiguity. Who do I have to speak to about if they can redo the prophecy? And that, by the way, is enjambment. Who do I speak to about if they can redo the prophecy? Okay. Then we have the bridge.

Yes. And I love this. I do too. Her bridges are usually the poetic gems in the middle of the song. Absolutely. And, you know, I have said before that there are times when I think I could do without the final chorus or the outro. Yeah. And I think that some of you who listen, your ears hurt when I say that because you love the songs and you need the whole song.

When I say that, I mean, as a poem, as a poem, I'm not sure you need the redundancy, the repetition. I think it must work in a song, but in a poem I might edit it. Yeah, just on the page, it's like we're just repeating this. But in a song, you can like sing it differently. you can take it to a different, you know, key maybe. You know, the sounds can be different behind it. So it's like a different thing than a poem. I think I like her.

Her bridges tend to be so strong that they almost feel like a final moment of the poem. So then like, why are we going back? Because that was a great final word. Yes, well, because it's a song. Yeah. So I treat it like a poem. She says, I sound like an infant. Okay, so it's a simile.

So how does an infant sound Someone who whines and cries? Yeah, I'm just like having to meltdown Well, and allegedly, right? Because... Oh, I know what I can understand. An infant is mulling and puking, I'm quoting Shakespeare now. Oh, I was like, oh, no.

Oh, yeah, a line from Shakespeare, people. Look it up, mulling and puking. Like an infant. Feeling like the very last drops of an ink pen. Okay, so she's got the whole pen thing. Is this a... I wrote a little... question mark. Is this a quill pen? Yeah, I mean this does feel very quill pen. But that just to me,

like that line is, I've got no more words to write down. Like, I've written all the songs. Yes. I've been through all of these feelings before. Yeah. And I have nothing left to say, like, except for change the prophecy. Where is he or it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I agree with you completely. Yeah. She's just, it's like, I'm tired of writing about this. I would like to write a different song or write a different poem. Yeah, I've had the very last drops.

And I also thought of last drops of blood, you know, because she is literally, I think she feels like she's bleeding out her life. Both of these are similes, you know, like an infant, like the last drops. The last drops of an ink pen, by the way, also very old-fashioned, very antique feeling. And I think that it goes with the sort of antique ambiance of the poem. Yeah, agreed. Right. So we're dealing with prophecies and old fairy tales and tarot cards.

And so I like it that she uses this antique simile. Okay, you just saying that it sounded like blood to you, like she's bleeding out on the page. For tortured poets, for a lot of her albums, she has actual poems that she puts inside. the, you know, in the vinyl covers and stuff. And TTPD Tortured Poets had two. One by Stevie Nix and then one by her. That is like the summation of what the story of this album. And it ends, which people really want you to dissect that one.

They want us to like cover that like it's a song and have you look at the poetry. But at the end of that, the very last line of that poem in tortured poets says, my veins of pitch black ink. Oh, that's fun. So you literally just called that. Hey, buddy. You're not a fool in a fable. I'm not the fool.

Although I have occasionally drawn the card. The next line, A Greater Woman stays cool. So we're back to the Greater Lesser Woman thing. A greater woman stays cool, but I howl like a wolf at the moon. So like a wolf at the moon is a simile, howling wolves. We got werewolves.

I still see no vampires. No, no. Just witches this time. Just witches. That feels so wicky to me. Well, so there's a tarot card. The moon. The moon, yeah.

Yeah, and now I need to go back through and find it. There's the moon. Love it. Yep, we can see it. Yeah. By the way, you may notice in the moon we have a wolf. howling at the moon. Ah, so she says,

I howl like a wolf at the moon. The moon can be a symbol of error or danger, but also the image of the moon, the goddess of the moon looking down between the two towers, has a very placid expression. There's a lobster, a clawed creature coming up at us out of the water almost unseen in the card of the moon. Like there's some danger lurking.

Yeah, it can be an ominous card. So she says, I howl like a wolf at the moon. That's also very rhythmical. I howl like a wolf at the moon. So we have dactyls, the dactylic meter. Maybe that's why I like, that's one of my favorite lines to sing. Oh, really? And maybe that's why, because it's like kind of the only one that, like, has that.

Yeah. It's dactylic, so you have two unstressed syllables and one stress syllables, but I howl like a wolf at the moon. That's actually how she sings it. Oh, is it? Like it's got that rhythm in the song. Yeah. Alfred Lord Tennyson, when he writes, the charge of the light brigade uses that same rhythmic pattern. Okay.

Because it's horses running. Okay, yeah. So they're just galop. Half a league, half a league, half a league, all in the Valley of Death, Road, the 600. so they're charging forward with their horses. Makes sense. So she seems to be running headlong into her disastrous life. Yeah.

Yeah. And I look unstable. See, I wonder why. Because she is staring, howling like a wolf at the moon, which can be a portent of some kind of error or coming danger. And she's screaming like an infant. She's screaming like an infant, you have babbling. So she's gathered with a...

coven round a sorceress's table. And again, we had this really wonderful rhythmic power gathered with a coven around a sorceress's table. So I have these alternating trokeys and dactyls that are really fun. And you have the witchiness of the coven and the sorceress. By the way, how many witches in a coven? Is this a joke or a really? A real question. I don't know.

Usually 13. Really? I wouldn't lie about that. That's Taylor's number. Oh, what? Is that her number, really? She loves 13. Oh, that's right.

You've told me. Yeah. This isn't the 13 song, is it? I don't think so. Okay, good. That would be too freaky. I do have to tell a story that came out after we got this album. Okay.

Because I was always picturing that, you know, like we're just, there's a bunch of women, like, with tarot cards, and we're all, like, trying to figure out where we're going next. And then we learned a story. Do you know who the model Gigi Hadid is? You know, I have actually heard the name, but I don't know the face. There's no reason that you should. But her and Taylor are really good friends, and they have been for a long time. She has a sister. She has two sisters.

I don't know how many sisters she has. One of them is also famous in this other lady. Is her name FF? No. Okay. I just thought it's Gigi. I actually don't remember what her name is. But she, Taylor invited them to one of the shows on the ERIS tour,

and they rode with her on her plane. And this woman, Gigi Hadid's sister, I should look up what her name is. So I don't just keep calling her that. Gigi Adid's sister. Mariel is her name. Ah, Mariel. Mariel did a tarot card reading for Taylor. And this was, I think, when they had just,

she had just started talking to Travis and she did a tarot card reading and was basically like, this says you should go for it with this guy. Oh, wow. And so then Taylor gave it a shot and went for it. And so I'm wondering if this whole song was inspired by like that moment

of a tarot card reading from this woman who just was like, hey, go for it. And then she wrote this like beautiful. You know, you're engaging in biographical criticism. I know, but I just had to pull it in this time. It's okay. I'm the one who's supposed to try to, because I am happily and vacuously unaware. Yeah, I just think that's so fun.

Because we got the song first, and that's what I was picturing in my head. She wrote that perfectly, and then a couple months later got that story. This, Mariel went on a podcast and told that story. And I assume with Taylor's Blessing, because I think that's how everything is, works with Taylor. It's that like, she's like, sure, go for it or don't you ever, you know? But yeah, I just think that's so fun

that there could have been like an actual moment that inspired this whole song that was based around a tarot card reading. So she got the, like, the ten of heart, the ten of cups and not the ten of spades. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Ten of cups would be fulfillment in a romantic relationship.

Okay, okay. Ten of spades would be death. So, yeah. Yeah. That's a, fun story though. Yeah. Yeah. It does give the reason to the, you know, to the song. Yeah, like just the inspiration

behind it, like how she came up with. And you realize Mariel is Little Mary and when she's talking about Eve, the antithesis of Eve is Mary. Oh, goodness. Oh, dear. Oh, gosh. For those, for those who haven't noticed a nice

statue of the Virgin Mary lately, the Virgin Mary is usually depicted standing on a snake. So she is crushing the head of the snake that threw Eve out of the garden. So Eve, Eve is the reason why we have free will, but Mary is the reason why we have Christ the redeemed. Yeah, salvation.

Right. Yeah. So there you go. That's interesting. Aren't you glad I'm here? Yes. That probably has nothing to do with this song. So they're around the sorceress's table.

Yes. And a greater woman has faith, as opposed to the lesser woman who has no hope. By the way, I guess just because I lived that way, I thought of, and I marked it up in the very first reference, I thought of Shakespeare's Macbeth, lesser than Macbeth and greater. Oh, I know. Okay. I know.

Oh, you know, but probably not for this song, but it just kept creeping into my head when she kept doing the greater and lesser women. I love the next line, but even statues, crumble if they're made to wait. And, I mean, it's a metaphor. It's a truism. You know, metaphorically, she's the statue or any of our hopes or statues. You know, what's a statue made out of stone, marble, something, or perhaps even metal. But, and you think of them as being permanent, but they're not.

Even statues crumble if they're made to wait. you know, Percy Shelley, Middle name Bish. Percy Shelley wrote that... Because he's a son of a bitch. Yeah, thank you. I remember. Percy Shelley wrote a poem Ozimandias. That's the title of a Breaking Bad episode.

Huh? Is it really? Yeah, I always remember that word. And I knew it came from something literature, but I didn't know what. Yeah, it's a poem about a, you know, a great Eastern king who has this huge sense. city built in his name and he has this giant statue erected and on the pedestal of statue you know it says look on these works she mighty and despair um and nothing remains except for the fallen head of the

statue and the pedestal right so that the the inscription is ironic look on these works she mighty and despair is ironic because there's nothing left no works right there are no works the of humanity will ultimately dissipate to nothing. It will just go to sand. And so I love her use of this. I wonder if she's thinking of Osamandias when she says even statues crumble if they are made to wait. Yeah, you know, for me, I really think this was my favorite line, but even statues crumble if they're made to wait. I like it because it's rhythmical, because it's metaphorical, because it's metaphorical, because it's trip reminds me of Osamandias, which is probably Shelley's most famous poem, Ode to the West Wind, and Osamandias probably is too most famous.

I just liked it a lot. I always, you know, there are so many of these songs, poems, where I find a line, I think, that's just a gem. Yeah. You know, that's a gem. Yeah. I'm so afraid I sealed my fate. No sign of soulmates.

I like the word sign because people are always looking, you know, covens or prognosticators with tarot cards are always looking for a sign, a portent, an auger, you know, something to show me the way. And she says, there's no sign, there's no augury, there's no portent of a soulmate. I'm just a paperweight in shadows of grace. So gray and beige. Yeah, gray. Grege is. That was my second favorite line. Yeah, I do love this too.

Like, because Grege became a thing. I want to say like, probably about 10 years ago, I think like your daughter's house might be painted in Grege. Yes. Like it was like a popular house color at that time, like a wall color, you know. Ours is kind of like that and we want to repaint. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's just, I don't know, that's just kind of, you know, she has these like quill pen songs where She's talking about, you know, all of these super old references and then she pulls in gray. It's always just kind of fun, like, because that's very of now, you know. Okay, so we're closing in, we're closing off the bridge, spending my last coin. So someone will tell me it'll be okay. Oh, oh, oh, oh. She's looking for a prophecy that's positive, right? And beg of the question, who is she seeking?

Who is she looking for? Is she looking for a prophet, a priestess, a witch? Is she talking to therapists, you know, a friend? Or all of it. All of those, because she's going to spend all of her money for just anyone to tell her. Yeah, that's, I mean, it was funny because I started thinking, gosh, I wonder if she is treading beyond, if she's padding beyond just the idea of a witch and a tarot card. You know, is she talking about her friends really, you know, I need help with you giving me advice. and holding me up, keeping my statue from deteriorating.

Or is she talking with a therapist or with a psychic or, you know, just to... Yeah. And then, like, you've got to go back through the bridge and look at the rhyming unity. You've got unstable, table, faith, weight, fate, soulmates, graze, okay. It's pretty nice. It is nice, yeah. You hear the rhyming power of the A that runs through every one of those. You know, not always in the same way and not always with the same consonant.

So sometimes they feel less like true rhyme and more like assonance. But that A always runs through all those last lines. And, you know, you combine that with some of the lines that are incredibly rhythmical, but I how like a wolf at the moon or gathered with a coven around a sorceress table or but even statues crumble if they're made to wait.

You know, I just loved the bridge. To me, this could almost be a standalone poem. Agreed. Yeah, it tells the whole story right there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Then we go to the chorus. The chorus is again, this plaintive crying

to heaven, the stars. Please, I've been on my knees. change the prophecy, don't want money, just someone who wants my company, let it once be me, who do I have to speak to about, and now she completes the line about if they can redo the prophecy,

who do I have to speak to to change the prophecy? I don't want to redo, I want another direction. It's completely changed it. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And then we have the outro, as we're rolling out, we go

back to the original hand on the throttle. Thought I caught lightning in a bottle. Oh, but it's gone again. Pat around when I get home. I guess a lesser woman would have lost hope. A greater woman wouldn't beg, but I looked to the sky and said,

please, so she tacks, please, back up on. Yeah. I love the way this ends. The way it sounds when she's ending it is very fun. Yeah. So I do kind of like, you know, again, if I was editing, I think I would edit down the chorus a little bit and keep the outro just as it is because I like tacking the word please on the other.

Yeah, me too. Yeah. And I like this is a very Taylor thing to do. I don't know if we've seen it a ton yet. I think we've seen it a couple times where the outro matches verse one. Like how the song started, she brings it kind of back. Yeah, I keep saying outro. It's outro?

I mean, I think it's whatever you want to be. I think you must be right. I thought we were all just having fun with the Ubi.S. O-Tro. O-Tro. All right. Okay. You want to hear it or you want to talk themes?

Uh, let's hear it and then I'll talk themes. Okay. If you are on Patreon, go listen to the song with us. And, um, if not, we will be right back. Woody! Game as fast as they could. It's been too long, cowboy. From Disney and Pixar.

So that's Lily Pat. Where are you? Some sort of old man toy? What? She thinks you're old because you're bald, Woody. Toys are for play. Tech is for everything. Toy Story is.

back. I want to talk to you device. The long toy. Turn it off. Got responded. I have plastic fingers. Featuring Taylor Swift's All New Song. I knew it I knew you. Available now. No way. Oh yeah. Disney and Pixar's Toy Story 5. Now playing All Neon Theater's

Tickets available now. That was fun. The song is good. Yeah, I just love that one. I don't know. The sounds, there's just like a lot happening in the background and there's strings in there, I think. It's just fun. You know, I mentioned the consistent rhyme or

if you will, of table, faith, wait, fate, fate, soul maids, greys, okay. She does the same thing with knees, prophecy, money, company, me, prophecy, prophecy. Yeah. You know, but as she stresses it because she says prophecy, e. Yeah, plea ease, knee ease. Yeah. You know, and I like several of things that we talked about during the song, like, The Howling Wolf Howl.

Yeah. I like the way she said, how do I, who do I have to speak to? She says it in a slightly different tone. It's like she's standing at a complaint window in a department store. That's what I was just thinking like she's like being a Karen a little bit. Like who do I need to speak to? I know. It's like.

Do I have to talk with the manager? Yeah. Yeah, I liked it. I mean, yeah, it's like she's, I don't know, she's at Dillard's or she's. She's the department store is saying, I got this dysfunctional love life. Yeah, fix it. Yeah, I want a new one and it's got to be right.

Yeah, I have the same thought just now listening. Also, we didn't talk really about paperweight. Oh, yeah. But I do kind of feel like paperweight maybe goes with what we were talking about, feeling like the very last drops of an ink pen, like talking about, like, I can't write anymore. Like, these are all of my stories. You're like, I have all of these stories here, and I'm just here holding them down.

Like, these are the things that I've written about wanting this. And all I am is, like, sitting on these without anybody here with me. Right. I'm just sitting on them. I'm just here. Well, and I think it also matches with one of the previous lines when she talks about sinking. Uh-huh. Right.

Oh, I was sinking, sinking in, slow in the quicksane. Oh, yeah, because it's a paper weight. Yeah. would be wading down, sinking. Yeah, I've got all this crap, and I'm sitting on it, and where is my love life? Yeah, yeah. Where is that success that I really want? Yeah.

Themes. Yes. Fate versus agency, right? You know, so how much does the greater woman take charge of her own life and get out there one more time, once more, once more? She uses that, you know, and hoping for the one life. last time, the one. Just once. Yeah. Just once. The cost of success, because she does refer to her money, her company, you know, she does talk about how she has success in just every other realm of her life except this one, and that's the one that matters. Yeah, I think that's the theme that

hits the hardest for me is where she's like, I have all of these things, I have this career, I've made it to the top of my game. The preordination of destiny in romantic loss and love. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, so do you just feel like it's just been ordained somewhere that you're going to have this crappy relationship and that crappy one and that crappy one? And you're going to see the perfect person walk right by and bye, you know. Which it does feel like that.

It feels like meeting the person that you're supposed to be. with feels like that should be impossible, you know? Yeah. And so it does feel like it's all, it is written, you know, it feels like this is how it's supposed to be. And maybe we didn't write a person for you, you know? We didn't write that person. Yeah, there's not one in the cards for you.

There's just, yeah, the pen ran out of ink before he got his name down. Yeah, so sorry. And one more, one more theme that I think is more implied, but I think that this is an intentionally personal one for her. So maybe I am engaging in biographical criticism. Fear of being left behind. You know, I think that

it's 2024 and she's writing the tortured poet society. It's not the happy poets running through daffodil's society. Yeah, and I mean that's kind of that let it once be

me feels like that. Because it's like I've seen my friends meet these people. I've seen my family meet these people and they've gone on and have these happy successful marriages and relationships and whatever it is that they have. But just this one time I need that to be. Yes, I'd like it to be me instead. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I do think that there is a sense of fear or fate of being left behind, just, you know, losing out. What was the theme you said about fame, the price of fame? Yeah, what's the

price, the cost of success? Yeah, I feel like she's several songs that kind of tie that into this one. Like she has a song called Peace where it's basically like, if you're in a relationship with me, like, am I enough to

combat the unpeaceful nature of what our life is going to be? Like you can't go out with me and not be hounded. You can't, you know, it's not a normal life. And like an anti-hero when she's talking about being a monster on the hill. Like, I just don't have a normal life. I'm not a normal human.

So can somebody, because of my fame, so is somebody going to step into that with me? So lastly, well, okay, almost lastly. Lastly, in terms of thematic material, I really wondered, and I don't want to talk about her necessarily, but I want to talk about her work. Okay.

I wondered in the poems when I began to reassess them as you just did, right? When I began going back through anti-hero or that kind of thing. I began to wonder if the poem demonstrates a fear or a concern or maybe even a dark conviction that success in one area may somehow mean lack of success in another. Well, yeah, because we're kind of taught that. You know, women can't have it all. Right. Well, there's an expression. You can't have it all.

Uh-huh. Right. You're not allowed to be the world's biggest pop star and have a great romantic life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you can't. Yeah, you've got to make sacrifices. Mm-hmm.

You know, and I, you know, I dislike the inevitability of it, but I think that that's what the work kind of demonstrates is I, it's asking that question. I wonder if success in this area means that the payment is, you know, that Eve's payment. Yeah, the punishment. The punishment is that I won't have success in this other area. Yeah. And she's beginning to weigh, or maybe the poet's voice is beginning to weigh, you know, well, which one was more important after all? Mm-hmm.

You know, was it the notoriety and the money and the company and the, you know, and the songs and the artistic gratification. Right, right. Or was it just somebody to pat around with? Yeah. Yeah. I said I had one more. Yes.

Your literary device for the day. Okay, yes. I have not mentioned this before, but since I did say that I liked the outro here, and I liked, you know, the moderation, the inclusion of the word, please, I guess I should mention Inclusio. Okay. That sounds like a Harry Potter spell. Inclusio.

Yes, Taylor, you must include. When you have the same line or image or idea at the beginning of work and at the end of the work, it's called an Inclusio. Oh, okay. So hand on the throttle, thought I'd caught lightning in a bottle, hand on the throttle, hand on the throttle. thought I'd caught lightning in the bottle from verse one to the outro. Yeah, it's an Inclusio. Who knew that was the term for that? There you go, Inclusio.

So she likes to do it in her other works as well. We've talked about that before, but I thought that I mentioned it here, especially because the Inclusio is the same except she does change it with the word, please. Yeah, so it's kind of fun. Yeah. Okay. You ready to grade?

Yeah. Okay. Okay, yeah. 99. Uh-oh. Okay, lyrical strength? Are we giving that a 99? Yeah, I, woof, lyrical strength. So I really liked the rhythmical elements,

and I loved the way she uses rhyme and assinance together at the ends of lines. I like the way she sings it. I'd like to hear her read it as well. Oh, that's funny. Yeah, I liked the way she used prophecy, Plee E's. It makes you listen. Uh-huh. You know, so.

And it's like she's really begging. Right. Yeah. So 99. I really, really liked that. Awesome. Okay. Narrative and structure.

Yeah. I thought that it was really good. I liked the little pop-up tarot cards. I liked finally getting right down in the weeds and saying, I'm going to a coven. Yeah. You know, I'm not even going to leave you guessing as to whether I'm referring to tarot cards. Yeah. I am.

I'm talking to the witches. The witches are here. We're doing this together. Right. So 97, I think that was strong. Okay. Production and atmosphere. Oh, you know, the song was good.

I liked the little pensive at the beginning. That was good. So 96. Okay. Lore and literary references. Ooh, so I like the... There's a lot of that going on. Yeah, I think that she said.

clearly it was written. She's referring to the Bible, especially to the New Testament, you know, where they refer to the Old Testament. So, and I especially like it that it was written is frequently used by Jesus and Paul. And they're always referring to the Old Testament, which is where we find the story of Eve, which is the next line, right? So she's not just throwing this crap out there. She's literally coordinating it rhythmically, you know, and she gets to Eve and asks about punishment and then she goes to the lesser and greater woman. How do I respond to that? If I were Eve, if I were blighted with this, or is it a blight, or how does it work?

Yeah. So I'm doing a lot of talking here. You're allowed. Yeah, you're thinking I'm going to give this like a hundred. I just don't know. I'm just ready to see where you're going to go. Yeah. I'm on my tippy toes.

I really am leaning towards a hundred. This is really, I like it. 99.6. Oh, my goodness. And emotional impact. How have you ever felt like the prophecy needed to be changed? Yeah, occasionally. Yeah, I didn't know whom I should turn to.

But yes, I have. But I'm going to say a 94. I didn't weep about it. I'm okay. That's a 97. Yeah, this is a good song. I say that I feel like every week, but I especially like this one because you have elements in it that I'm familiar with in poetry. So I like the use of references to the Bible.

I like the references to the tarot cards and mixing up methods of prognostication fun. All right. Thank you patrons for picking this one. Yes, that was fun. Oh, that's right. Thank you patrons. Yeah, they knew you were going to like it. Yeah, I did.

I really did. Okay. Is that all? Anything else? I think, um, I think that's all. Okay. Make sure you're following us everywhere, subscribed on all of the things, wherever you get your podcast. You can follow us on social to make sure you know what's coming next at Swifty and Scholar Pod. You can find Uncle Jerry at Dr. Uncle Jerry or Dr. Jerry. And you can find me at Angela Wyatt McDowell on Instagram. Okay.

Okay. We will see you. next week. Hey y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home.

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