The Swiftie and The Scholar - The Cinematic Imagery of Father Figure

Episode Date: October 30, 2025

Step into our office and leave it with us. We protect the family! Join us as we walk through Father Figure from The Life of a Showgirl. Uncle Jerry gives his theories on the inspiration for the song, including many different movies, and Angela works out where she thinks the narrator changes mid-track.Pour yourself some brown liquor and you won’t be sleeping with the fishes.Works Cited:A Star is Born – All Versions RankedAll About Eve (1950)Goodfellas (1990)The Godfather (1972)The Freshman (1990)Ragged Dick: The 1868 Classic Rags to Riches Tale – Horatio Alger – Affiliate LinkFollow Us:⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠Angela’s Instagram⁠

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start a period of per Records. Welcome to the Swifty and the Scholar, the podcast where we examine the lyrics, lore, and literary legacy of Taylor Swift. I am Angela McDow, the Swifty. And I am Dr. Cherry Coates, the scholar. Hello, Uncle Jerry. Hello, Angela. How are you doing today? I'm really good. Thank you. How are you? I'm good. Are you feeling like a showgirl? I have never felt like a showgirl. Actually, I have. Oh my gosh. No, I know. I know. You were, you were, you were, in a play. I saw it and you were playing a woman. I saw it. I remember this. Yes, I have felt like a showgirl. Yeah, I was in, um, what was the name of that musical? Hairspray. I was in hairspray, yes, and I play the mom character who is usually played by a guy. Yeah, in the movie

that's, um, John Travolta. Yeah, except I'm much better than he is. Of course. Because I didn't play with a weird southern accent. I mean, I don't get it. Edna's a, she's a Jewish lady. lady from Baltimore and she talked like she was from Georgia you know and you're not a Scientologist I am not a Scientologist no

okay okay today hopefully we can find some video from that performance of you I remember like having a really good time watching that like thinking it was so funny it was it was fun yeah yeah it was a great cast

and a wonderful director the drama professor at our campus. It was really talented. Yeah, that was fun. Okay, so now that you're in your showgirl headspace. Okay, I'm in my showgirl headspace. Let's talk about father figure. Territory.

I'm sorry, okay, I'm good. I'm having flashbacks now. I'll start singing in a moment. More flashbacks. Okay, today we're going to cover Father figure. Father figure. From the life of a show. Girl, 2025.

Thank you for re-underscoring my masculinity. You might be a father figure to all of these people. I hope not. But in this way, not great. Okay. Okay, so this is another Taylor, Max Martin, and Shelbach track, as are all of them from Showgirl. Yeah. Let's just kind of get into it.

So we do know she did talk about giving George Michael. writing credits on this song. Yep. Great George Markle's song, as a matter of fact. I love that song. And she talked to his estate, his family, and they were very excited for that. I did learn, however,

that George Michael also wanted to own his masters. Oh, really? And he did not ever get to. And so she credited him as a writer instead of a producer on this so that as the writer, he gets like his estate gets like more money for it. Oh, well, that's nice.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's equitable. I mean, you could be ironic and say, well, she's got plenty of money to give away. But no, that's a really equitable stick. Yeah. I mean, I think it's like it's sure about the money, but also just about the principle of the matter behind it. It is.

Yeah. She's just proven a point. Yeah. Well, and having been shortchanged herself. Yes. Yeah, I would think that she would do that kind of thing. Yeah. Okay, so let's just get into it.

I don't have anything else to say up top. Okay, well, I am a little confused by the song, by the poem. Okay. You know, it's like I feel like it's about three different things that are all very different. Okay. What are those three things? None of which are apparently what you think it is. Because Angela gave me like this little tidbit of she knows what this song is about.

I mean, I don't know, but I know. Okay. So when I was sitting in the movie, right? So we went to the movie and I first heard this song. I thought of another very famous movie. Okay. A series of movies. And when I read through it, just the first time, I thought, man, oh, man, this feels like a star is born.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Right. I've seen the new star is born, not any of the others. So there are four different versions. I've seen them all. Do Girl Lady Gaga. Yeah, there's a 1937 version with Janet Gainer and Frederick March.

And Janet Gainer for me is just okay. Frederick March is absolutely wonderful. I think he's an amazing actor, which I love him in the role. I think it's a great film, a great watch, black and white, get ready. You know, 1954 was the year that Judy Garland played the role. And James Mason plays the mentor. Wait, James Mason is from Odd Man Out. You are correct, ma'am.

Oh, my goodness. Yes, I told you I'm a huge James Mason fan. I even like him in Journey to the Center of the Earth, and that's a terrible movie. But James Mason's in it. He's got this beautiful British voice, you know. Yeah. And, I mean, I like him in the role. Judy Garland sings beautifully.

It is not the best version. I remember just out of high school, okay, I'm dating. myself. The 1976 version with Chris Christopherson. Okay. Pop singer, pop songwriter. And Barbara Streisand played the role. And then

of course we've got the 2018 version, which I ran right out to sea with Bradley Cooper and Lady Gaga. And I think she's wonderful in it. She is. I would have handed her the Oscar. I love her voice. I love the songs. She sings.

You know, I can listen to that all day. And, of course, the movie is about a, you know, a mentor-mente relationship where the mentor is on the downside of his career and the mentee is just coming up in her career. And, you know, he mentors her into the music business or the acting business. And so, yeah, I was reminded of that in this particular song. Yeah, yeah, I can see that. The only flaw is, of course, Taylor Swift is not on the down. side of her career. Yes.

Yeah. I'm hoping not. You know, just for her. But, you know, I mean, goodness knows, you know, she made a half a billion dollars the last couple of weeks. So I'm going to say she's still relatively popular. I would think so. Yes.

But nevertheless, the song does kind of mirror some of the elements of the movie of Star is born where you get mentored. The one that really is. struck me was another movie and I wondered how much of a movie buff she is. I did, I took film studies class as an undergraduate.

You know, so I was particularly reminded of a 1950 film all about Eve with Betty Davis. Okay. Yeah, and she, Betty Davis plays a role. Everybody knows a line from that movie. Okay. She's standing on the

staircase and she says it's going to be Bumpy Night. Oh, yeah, yeah. In that, in that movie, Anne Baxter is a young artist who wants to break into the

New York play scene, drama scene, right? And Betty Davis is the old experienced actor with all kinds of awards. And Anne Baxter plays her. She plays the play

right. She plays the producer. Okay. And essentially, she wheedles her way in in order to push Betty Davis out of a prestigious role. Okay. And so it's a very famous film about what happens in New York

Drama Circles. Yeah. And it's also a famous story about a conniving understudy who manages to push and push and push without seeming to push. And essentially she lies her way through it.

Okay. And she pushes the Betty Davis character out of a role that eventually wins a Tony Award. Oh, rough stuff. Right. So, you know, my second theory is, oh, no, it's not about a star is born where you have this kind of amiable mentor-menti relationship. It's about a mentor-menti relationship where the mentee turns out to be a lying, conniving, pushing person.

Okay. And that may be one A and one B. I'm not sure. Okay. I also felt like I had echoes of Goodfellas and The Godfather. You know, I was waiting for there to be a line about a horse's head in the bed. I felt like this was about the character, Johnny Fontaine, in the Godfather. Johnny Fontaine, if you've never seen the Godfather, first of all, if you've never seen the Godfather, shame on you.

If you've never seen the Godfather, you should watch the Godfather, then go and watch a movie with Matthew Broderick called The Freshman. That's about this young kid who goes to New York to NYU to do film study. And his film study professor does nothing but watch The Godfather. That's funny. It's funny. I haven't seen that. Martin Brando is actually in the movie.

That's funny. I love that. But yeah, I mean, it did feel like there were moments when in the Godfather, in Godfather first, the first one. This character named Johnny Fontaine comes to see the godfather. He invites him into his office and he asks for his loyalty and he promises to talk with a movie producer about getting him a role because his career is slipping a little bit and he asks the godfather for some help. And the character of Johnny Fontaine is actually based on Frank Sinatra. Oh, right?

Yeah, Frank Sinatra was trying to break into movies. he felt like the role of from here to eternity would be perfect for him. And so he is supposed to have gone to his mafia godfather and asked for some help. You know? Yeah. Now, if it's not true, and my house burns down next week. Yeah, we'll know it wasn't true. Or we'll know it is true.

Yeah. So that's theory number two. Okay. Theory number three is that it's about a relationship that Taylor Swift had. with another person and I'm just going to have to admit you know I have yet again been tainted

you know I mean my whole deal is I do not consult other sites I do not consult other readers I read these things by myself as a literary reader just reading a poem but the truth is that in the last couple of weeks

Taylor Swift has been all over the media and I pick up my phone and I open my news feed and there's a Taylor Swift article about how this is a poem, a song about Olivia Rodriguez. And I'm thinking, well, I thought it might be a song about someone whom she mentored. And here's an article about Olivia Rodriguez. I have no idea about her music at all.

I have no idea about their relationship. It was just that assertion. And I went, dang it. I didn't want to know the name. Well, if it helps, I don't think that's what it's about. Okay, good. So those are my three theories. I will say I do think that was a lot of people's first instinct was to throw Olivia's name in there.

And I just don't think that there's really that much. A lot of people think there's like tons of beef between them. And I just don't think there is. But that's the story for it every time. I have no idea. I have no idea what their relationship is. To be honest with you, if I have heard an Olivia Rodriguez song, I didn't know it. So I have no idea.

I thought it might just be some relationship she had in the music, the music business. You know, back to the godfather thing, I thought that might be once again bringing that bringing that old beef against the record company that held her the rights to her for six albums. Yeah. So I actually do think that is what it is. Oh, no, you really? Specifically, the man who owned that record label, Scott Borchetta, is who I think this is, the Oh, really?

Okay. And I think we have a little change of narrator halfway through. Okay, yeah. All right. Cool. So I think she's, I think this is, it starts off with things that like an older man, we're just going to say it's Scott for argument's sake. All right.

Says things to her. And then at some point in the song, and I do think there is an auditory clue as well in the music. Okay. When it switches. I still am arguing a little bit to myself where it actually does switch, but then I think it switches, and I think the rest of it is told from Taylor's point of view. Okay. I like it.

You know, that was one of my three theories that it was about the record company and, you know, couched in Godfather language, you know, which in literary circles, we call that throwing enough crap on the wall. Something's going to stick. I do want to say that. have this song at first I was like wait what and then like maybe a week later it something clicked for me and I simply cannot stop listening okay because it makes me feel like I'm tough and powerful when in reality I'm not she is just last just ask Mr. Mcnavall I did ask him last night I said

Am I tough and powerful? No, I said something. I think I maybe literally said like you'll be sleeping with the fishes before you knew you're drowned. And I said, that sound tough. And he was like, no, not a little, not even a little bit. And I was like, no, I am tough. Y'all's comments about me giggling too much, don't ruin my day.

They do. She, you know, she's a delightfully happy person. And what do you, you don't like that? Sorry for having fun. I'm going to have to laugh more. Yeah. Sorry. That just sounds evil, doesn't it?

It sounded like a vampire. It could be. Okay, let's get into it. And let's see if you, what, if we can, if we can figure it out. Fine, okay. Yeah. So, so verse one. Yes.

When I found you, you were young, wavered, lost in the cold. And so I have to tell you, this does remind me of all about. Eve. Oh, okay. Because when Betty Davis, you know, when we first see one of the Ann Baxter character, the Ann Baxter character, she's like in, she's mousy, she's tiny, she's got a hat on, she's got a cloak wrapped around her, and she's literally lost in the cold. Yeah, but that's intentional on her part.

She's so conniving in the movie. It's a delicious film. You need to watch it. Yeah, I guess I do need to. But, yeah, she's like, oh, I'm so small and poor, and I just have always admired who you are. You know, and so, yeah, I did feel echoes of that character. I do think Taylor is a big movie, buff.

You know, I hope that, I mean, that's a very famous film. Yeah, yeah. So, hopefully she's seen it. So you pulled up in your jag, obviously a demonstration of wealth, turned your rags into gold. This is one of her favorite tricks, right? We take a cliche or an idiom, and she changes it a little bit, you know, so you're not, you know, you don't want to use a cleats. or idiomatic writing, but she twists it. Instead of rags to riches, she says rags to gold.

That's nice. The winding road leads to the chateau. Again, all images of wealth, the jag, the gold, the chateau, you remind me of a younger me, I saw potential, which is actually, again, back to a line from, it's not an exact line. You know, you remind me of myself. Oh, okay. I see such potential in you. Okay.

From all about that. All about Eve. Okay. Yeah. I haven't heard anybody on mine talking about this being about, all about Eve. So I hope that this is correct and she's like. Well, you know, Taylor's watching this right now. Even if it isn't, I like it.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I don't know if she's seen the movie or if it is indeed. But certainly it's about that, I guess you could say it's that same plot idea where you have someone who needs the help and someone who's willing to give the help as a mentor. Yeah. So mentor, mentee relationship.

I love the use the word chateau. I think it's really good. Yeah, me too. I like that whole line. The winding road leads to the chateau because I feel like that is, that's like her whole story, you know, in one line. It's like we took this winding journey. Yeah, this long journey takes, you know, through the music industry.

Wait a minute. I was going to call that out as a metaphor. I'm so sorry. Yeah, so it's a metaphor, right? Yeah. It's the famous journey metaphor, the winding road. Yeah. And Rags to Riches, by the way.

is a Horatio Alder, you know, kind of reference. Okay. You're thinking, who's Horatio Alger? Okay. I got one of his books back here. Of course you do. Horatio Alger wrote a series of novels about boys who become wealthy. They're always like poor kids selling newspapers on the street, but they become the newspaper editor

and then the owner of the newspaper. So it's always ranks to riches, that story. Okay, so she even has quotations around you remind me of a younger me. And so we feel immediately that she's not narrating to the audience necessarily, but that this is a situation where we have a speaker and a listener, right? So we have an interlocutor, someone with whom we are having a conversation. So she is addressing the you, you know, when I found you. So the mentor and the mentee are there together.

You know, the mentee never says anything. Yeah. Which makes this a dramatic monologue. Okay, yes. Okay. So we talked about dramatic monologues before. A dramatic monologue is a little tiny slice of a much bigger play or movie. Yes.

You know, it's just a moment in time where two people are together or one person and several people are together and only one person does the talking and so the question is well who is talking what's the situation who are they talking to what's the tone you know

what's gone on before what's going to go on afterward right dramatic monologues are fun Robert Browning is the king of the poetic dramatic monologue you know and I love dramatic monologues and so yeah I like what she does in this particular poet

him. So, you know, we're talking to this mentee. You remind me of a younger me. I'll be your father figure. Uh, you know, so we start the course. Yes. So he or she offers to be the father figure to drink the brown liquor. I kept trying and trying and trying to think if the brown liquor was, uh, anything other than like whiskey or bourbon. Yeah. I mean, that's what I. I, that's what, that's all I've come up with. Yeah. And I'm just picturing it like, you know, like, I'm just wondering if it's supposed to just be an extra image, you know, of like a man, like a rich man sitting in his like, you know, dark room with the mahogany and just like smoking a cigar and drinking his whiskey and. Yeah. Yeah.

See, this is what, this is what took me to the godfather. Yeah. Yeah. You know, when, when the character of Johnny Fontaine comes to visit Vitoquist. Vito Corleone, you know, he's ushered into his office and they walk over and they shut blinds, you know, and it's got this giant mahogany desk and he's got the liquor and, you know, he's, the godfather's sitting very famously behind the desk, you know, and Johnny is pleading his case in front of him. And he slaps him and tells him to be a man.

Yeah. Yeah, that just feels like it. Yeah, it's just adding to the. the imagery of the scene, I guess. So he says I can make deals with the devil because my dick's bigger. It's a masculine world. Yeah. It's like a metaphor for power, yes.

It is a metaphor for power. Yeah. It's the whole, you know, sausage measurement thing. Yeah. And the deal with the devil obviously is from the Batman. And so. Of course. So the very first Batman movie.

But I do think that you know, making a deal with a mafia boss Is always a deal with the devil And, you know, back to your idea that it's And I can't remember the guy's name Scott. Scott. Great, Scott. If it is old Scott,

who is holding, you know, who has chains around her first six albums, then, you know, her making record deals with him was always a deal with someone where payback was coming. Yeah. Yeah. When we saw this in the movie, it was the clean version.

And in the clean version, it says, because my check's bigger. Ah, yes. So we do, I mean, that would be fine with the first verse, with all the wealth imagery, right? With the gold and the jag and the chateau. Yeah, so my first instinct was to say, like, honestly I kind of think like my checks bigger is like a bigger like gotcha moment you know

it's like a bigger flex but then as I've gone along I'm like maybe it's not because because I feel like that is about power and obviously money gives you power as well but like I just feel like it's like a like a more straightforward metaphor with talking about her D. Right. Well, and so if the speaker here, the I, yeah, is our record label host, you know, is our magnate, then, you know, she is that young kid at the very beginning of a long and winding road. Yeah. To quote the Beatles. I'm sorry. I had to.

You know, and what we have here is kind of an Ophelia moment, you know. Oh, you're right. Yeah, because Ophelia is oppressed in a kind of patriarchal world. She's got Lairtees who tells her what to do, Polonius who tells her what to do, Hamlet who tells her what to do, the king who tells her what to do. And ultimately it drives her crazy or sinks her into melancholy and despair. You know, having the dick being bigger, you know, just is that oppressive, masculine voice that says, here's exactly what you're going to do.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Now that's interesting to pull Ophelia into this. You're right. Well, I do think, I do think that Ophelia is an overarching metaphor that runs through the song. I still haven't gotten to read all the lyrics of all the songs. Yeah. But I'm really interested to do that because I think that it is an overarching metaphor for her conquest of that Ophelia self to avoid the fate of Ophelia.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And she does that in this poem. She does, yes. Because she's got the place surrounded. She does. So what is love? Love is prophet. You know, I mean, and, you know, we're back to the godfather.

We're back to the good fellows. You know, it doesn't matter how much you love me. I need my 10%. Yeah. Yeah. So she also has another song on Tortured Poets called Cassandra. Oh, okay. And it is about the character from mythology.

Right. And there is a line in there that says blood's thick, but nothing like a payroll. Okay. Which feels like it's like a direct call to this. Like this love is pure profit. Right. You love me because I'm making you so much money. Yeah.

Ultimately, in the Godfather trilogy, Michael Corleone kills his own family member. Oh, sorry. Spoiler alert. So I think he does. I can't remember. But yeah, he does. He kills his own family member because, yeah, blood is thick, but eventually it's about the profit. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's, and loyalty because the family member was disloyal. Yeah. Gee, is loyalty in this poem? Sure is. Oh, my. Yeah, just step into my office. That's kind of a cliche. I'm surprised she didn't do more with it.

You know, it feels like she doesn't usually just drop a clue. You know, unless it's purely an image from the record office, you know, the record magnates office or the godfather's office or that kind of thing. Yeah. Dry your tears with my sleeve, you know, reaches out with a sleeve and wipes her face. Yeah. That's very, I mean, I don't feel like that's an image of kindness. Do you? I mean, I feel like it would be in other circumstances, but with what we've just read, it feels like.

like I am here to take your money, but also pretend like I'm helping you along the way. Yeah, it's almost controlling. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. So then we get to the post chorus, leave it with me. I protect the family. So again, I'm back to my godfather reading.

And essentially that's what the Corleone, both the original godfather and Michael, who eventually takes over, you know, Michael. becomes this cold calculating. I'm not going to say entirely heartless because he takes care of the family. Yeah. Yeah, that's what they do, right? They protect their family.

You know, at one point in the godfather, Tom Hagan, who was kind of an adopted brother and the concierge, he is the attorney for the family, he says that he has complete acceptance of the paternal divinity. Oh. Yeah. He says he is absolute loyalty and the paternal divinity.

Interesting. Yeah. So when he says, you know, I want to be your father figure. I'm going to protect the family. Yeah. Yeah. People did pick up on, I did not pick up on this. She says, I protect the family in this six times.

Okay. And you were just saying her first six records. Oh. Like she's nice. Yeah. that she's protecting. Oh, she's protecting her family of work. Oh, I didn't get that.

I'm going to have to write that down. That's cool. Yeah. Oh, that's a nice interpretation. Yeah, I also didn't pick up on that. I can't take credit for that. Yeah, I like that. Yeah.

I'm going to put it on record. We can go back and eliminate the part where you said you read it someplace else. Okay, yeah, we'll just edit that out. I think the family is her body of work. Yeah, I would agree. That's a good reading. I pay the check. We're back to the dick's bigger, the check's bigger.

And you could re-echo I pay the check before it kisses the mahogany grain. It'd be kind of nice to have it be check. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the artist's choice, which word to use. Right. Yeah. But I think it would work with check in both spots.

I agree. And as you pointed out, mahogany grain, it's just wealthy. It gives you that old smoke-filled office where deals are done. Yeah, and I'm like so rich and powerful. I'm not even going to let you pretend that you're going to pay for this. I'm going to snatch the check before anybody ever puts it on the table. Yeah. And then they said they want to see you rise.

They don't want to see you rain. I love this line. Okay, I do too. That's poetry. It is poetry because it's a divided line cut by the pause in the middle, the sysheera, but also the last word of each half, rise and rain, are alliterative, right? And so she loves alliteration. We saw that in the movie.

She's very conscious of those poetic elements. Yes. So I think it's intentionally alliterative. It's intentionally positioned, intentionally paused. And so it's like, yeah, people want to see you get better, but they don't want to see you at the top, I'm the guy to take care of that. Yeah, and like, I think this is another,

um, we were talking about when talking about Ophelia that, you know, the, the, the, the, the,

the burden of the patriarchy kind of, you know, made her insane, we could say. Right. And I think that they want to see you rise. They don't want you to rain is kind of an echo of that. Like, we want you to go out there and become a star.

and rise as high as you can and make us all this money, but you're never allowed to be in control of that. That's right. You can't be in control. Yeah. Angela, you know, I mean, a few more of these you might not even need. I do genuinely feel like I'm getting so much smarter. I actually was going to point out that I thought the word rain connected with the Ophelia story.

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for stepping on your toes. No, no, I love it. I think that's great. Yeah, I do. I think, and your interpretation runs exactly what I was thinking. It's like, yeah, we want to see you ornamentally, but we don't want to see you in control. Yeah.

We want to see you making money for us, but we don't want to see you pulling the strings. Yeah. Yeah. And Ophelia fits right in there, right? We want to see you married off to Hamlet or to Laerite, you know, to whomever works. But, you know, you're not. going to have any real power. They're in charge.

Right. And I showed you, you know, I showed you all the tricks of the trade, right? So don't worry, I'm the pro at this. Uh-huh. And then all he wants is our loyalty. It's not much. No. Just your loyalty.

Just loyalty. And, oh, yeah, a substantial portion of the profits. Yeah. Yes. Because don't ever forget you're my protege, my. And then we have this dear protege. Like, oh yeah, I just love you. Dear protege.

You're very important to me. It's almost infantilizing, you know. And so, yeah, I think it's very controlling. Yeah. Okay, then we have the chorus. Yes. And we're back to being a father figure, drinking the brown liquor,

making a deal with the devil, Dicks bigger, love is pure profit, step into my office. The change is they'll know your name in the streets. So, you know, that could have a double meaning. Okay. You know, on the one hand, you'll be very famous and common people will know you, right? But to be known in the streets, to have street cred is a kind of gangsterism.

Oh, okay. Okay, yeah. Right. So you're in control of the streets. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of fun. It takes it back to the mafia. Yeah, we're going back to the mafia.

We're not giving up control of our territory. Yeah, I didn't pick up on that. See, I do still need you here. Oh, okay, thank you. I'm still on the payroll. Yeah. Okay, good. Before I turn my page, I'm going to go back all the way up at the top.

Okay. And we're going to notice the rhyme scheme. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So cold, gold. I mean, one of the things that makes her an, interesting writer is her modulation of rhyme and rhythmic patterns. So what's fun is the first two lines here rhyme. So cold and gold, liquor and bigger.

And then family family, grain, rain, liquor bigger, family. And, you know, so that we're throughout that whole first section throughout both the first two verses and the choruses. we have rhyming couplets that start off every stanza. Yeah, that's nice. Yeah, it's kind of fun. Well, it's, you know, it's, I'm not going to say it adds to the interpretive power of the poem, but it does make it a poem. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's really what makes it singable. It makes it a song. Right. You know, so, you know, don't fail to notice the rhyme scheme. Okay, so then we go to the bridge. I saw a change in you, my dear boy. They don't make loyalty like they used to.

your thoughtless ambition spark the ignition on foolish decisions, which led to misguided visions. Okay, so we've got this kind of tumble of conversation, and you've got all kinds of internal rhyme. Yes. Ambition, ignition, decisions, visions, right? So the internal rhyme works really well together, but it's also very, like it is, in conversationally speaking,

controlling, right? Because when you're rhyming like this internally, people can't get a word in edgewise because they're waiting for the completion of the rhyme. Oh, interesting. Right. So it is a cool technique to control. And we have one of those cliches that she plays with.

They don't make loyalty like they used to. Yeah. Right. So they don't make whatever it is like they used to. Well, they don't make cars like. Like they used to do. Right. But here there's a poem about loyalty.

It's a poem about controlling her in the record business. I don't know. Or controlling someone in terms of their mentor-mente relationship. Depends on how you look at the poem. Yeah. But yeah, it's a fun twist on the cliche that they don't make loyalty. Agreed. Yeah.

And we have metaphors going, right? Sparking the ignition. So a car, you know, an old-fashioned, car, you used to have to advance the spark before the ignition would catch. Oh. Yeah. So they called it advancing the spark. So you would spark the ignition in an old car.

Like, say, an old gangster car. Yeah. Like a, I don't know, a getaway car. Oh. Wait a minute. Getaway car. Like, that's kind of fun. It is kind of far.

It's fun, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, the metaphor of sparking. the ignition. Got anything to say about all that? You look like you were... Yeah, I just...

I love all of that internal rhyme. I think it's so fun. Yeah, me too. It feels really like masterfully done to me. But I do think that maybe the bridge is where the narrator changes. I was wondering about that. Yeah, I get it. Yeah.

Okay, so talk about that. Yeah. So I've been arguing with myself whether it changes, the narrator changes in the bridge or in the next chorus, but I do think it's in the bridge. I also think we get, like I was saying, like an auditory clue to the narrator changing in the song. And I think it happens right here. And I think what she's talking about here is like when I read it from, okay, the narrator has changed from this man to now to Taylor being the narrator. And she's like, I saw a change in you.

so she's talking to him now like something changed i thought we like had this like great relationship where we were going to work together forever but i saw something change and so you are no longer loyal to me and you are so ambitious your thoughtless ambition made you think that to fulfill your dreams you had to get rid of me so this is where i kind of um why i'm still arguing with myself because it does sound a little bit like you had to get rid of of me could also still be Scott talking to her. To her, yeah. But maybe that was on purpose.

She does like to be ambiguous like that. Yes. Yeah, I certainly felt that too, you know, because I'm looking for a, for like this cohesive, dramatic monologue. And I feel like it shifts here to be like the monologue suddenly becomes her talking to someone else. Yeah. Or maybe the bridge is like both of them.

They're both thinking this same thing. Yeah. I think that's great. I think it may be both of them talking about each other's relationship. Yeah, they both feel exactly the same. Well, and even like if you go back to interpreting this in the All About Eve or the Star is Born metaphor or image where you've got a mentor mentee, you know, so this is that moment when the mentee is coming up to the level of the mentor and the mentor is now really. the equality of their relationship. Yeah.

And so they're both talking. Yeah. It's almost as though we're getting both of them. That actually... Yeah, having the same feeling. I like that better. I think that's what I think now. It just came to me, but I really do think that could be what it is.

Uh-oh. Did I just change your mind? Maybe. No, see, you've still got me stuck on the record company thing. No, I do think it's still them. Yeah. But I just think that maybe this bridge could be from both of their... From both perspective.

Uh-huh. Yeah, I do like that. I think it's clever. It is ambiguous and, you know, we say she likes ambiguity. I'm going to go farther and say really good writers engage in ambiguous writing. You know, and not because they're playing games, but because they want us to be engaged. They want us to think. Yeah.

You know, she, I think that one of the things that sets her apart from me, one of the reasons why I said yes to doing this is that, she's engaging us in the process and we're not just mindlessly listening to another song. Like I said, I may have heard an Olivia Rodriguez song. I don't know. Yeah. You know. Yeah. But I would know if I heard a Taylor Swift song.

Yeah. Yeah. Now, especially. Yeah. Yeah. Did I tell you how you perverted me? Have I told you this? I don't think so.

Okay. I'll save it to the end. Okay. Yeah. But yeah, I just think this brings. bridge is really masterfully done. I do too. Which I think about probably all her bridges,

but this one, I don't know, something about this just really. And now I'm convinced that it's both of them talking to each other from each of their perspectives. From each of their perspective, right? Because that's why I think I've been confused, is that it feels like she would be the one saying,

or sorry, he would be the one saying you had to get rid of me. But then I'm like, well, maybe it's, but she had to get rid of it. Yeah, there are times in a relationship. where you just got to get rid of each other. Yeah. I mean, you know, where you both realize, wow, this thing really is over.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're almost done. Yes. Chorus. Yes. I was your father figure drank the liquor, deal with the devil, Dick's bigger.

But this, but she's changing the pronouns here. Yes, she's changing the pronouns. See, you don't need me at all. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do.

I do. I do. Yeah. Yes, she does. And she then says, you want to fight? You found it. Yeah. I got the place surrounded.

Okay. So, yeah, we're back to the mafia world. But we're also back to the whole record company world where, you know, she's got her attorney. She's got her attorneys lined up, buddy. Yeah. And she's got, she's like, okay, I'm going to re-record this stuff. Yeah, I've got a way out. And I know these people are going to make this project.

I know these Swifties are going to make this project a success. I don't think she knew that. but we did make it a success and like surrounded in so many ways. It so tickles me. See, I didn't realize until you told me that she re-recorded those albums. First of all, it tickles me. That is the biggest, pardon me, but F you. Yeah.

Yes. To re-record all your albums. She said people underestimate how far like I will, how far, like, out of my way, I will go to, like, prove a point. Yeah. Well, and secondly, it's just, I mean, it just, it tickles me that, you know, that she would just go, you know, here, you want the old ones? You keep the old ones. Yeah.

You know. I'll make them worthless to you, but you keep the old ones. And I love it when I see Taylor's version. Yeah. And for instance. I never understood what that meant until you explained it to me. I thought, oh, okay, so this is the one she owns. Yeah.

Yeah. But now she owns them all. Well, she owns them all. Yeah, we got there. Yeah. But, like, yeah, it's just like that, whenever I, whenever I hear this line, you want to fight, you found it. I got the place surrounded. I just, like, picture, like, and this is, like, me being wanting to insert myself into songs, but, like, I picture her, like.

You're still a fan. But, yes, her being like, look, I'm not, I'm not all the way to switch. I'm sorry you're going to go ahead. I don't really believe you. Okay. But she's like, I've got the place surrounded. Like I have fans that I know are going to follow me wherever I take them.

Right. And I've got the money to do this project. You had the money in the beginning, but now I have the money where I can make this happen. And then she eventually had enough money to buy everything, you know. So, I don't know, that's just what I always picture. Like, whenever I see I've got the place surrounded, I just picture, like, everybody at, like, an Eros tour concert. Because that's, like, how she got the money to buy all the music back.

Yeah, that's a fun image. Yeah. Well, so, yeah, he found a fight. Yeah. And, you know, I'm not going to say he didn't win. Didn't she pay him just a lot of money for those things? Yeah, I mean, she had to pay a ton of money, but she got what she wanted in the end, you know. Absolutely.

And by the way, oh, yes, she's made more. Yeah. So, yeah, you'll be sleeping with the fishes. Yeah, will he ever make another penny from those things? Nope. No, he won't. Nope. I think that makes her very happy.

Yeah. You know, that she has that knowing that he's sleeping with the fishes. And a matter of fact, he will know he's what? What's that last word of the line? Oh my gosh, we're back to Ophelia. We are drowning. We're drowning. Yeah, that's why I keep saying we have echoes of Ophelia through the,

these songs. And this isn't the only one. I've looked at Elizabeth Taylor and I can't wait to do it. Okay. We have echoes of Ophelia. So I think she's very clever. I'm going to say that with this album, you know, and I've seen that some people go up and down about whether there's a great album, doesn't measure up to the standards of her others. I don't know. I haven't heard the others. Yeah. I've heard only the songs you have played to me to this point. But this is very clever stuff. Yeah. There's so much more depth than people are crediting her with.

Yeah. So whose portrait's on the mantle? Well, that would be hers. Yeah. You know, who's covering up your scandals? No, she's done with it. Mistake my kindness for weakness and get your card canceled. The best with that line as well.

Yeah. Cancelled would seem to be an important word to see there. Mm-hmm. I don't remember if she uses that anywhere else. I was your father figure. You pulled the wrong trigger. You know, yeah, you're dick's bigger. You pull the wrong trigger.

This empire belongs to me. So I'm back to the record company. She now owns all of it. All of it. Yeah. And just for the moment to go back to the poetics. Yes. You know, if we were just looking at this stanza alone at the rhyme liquor,

bigger AA, surrounded drowning, B, B, scandals, cancels, C, C, trigger back to A. Uh-huh. So she see. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you see how she rounds out that seven-line stanza? Yeah. Yeah, that's nice. It's nice.

You know, I mean, I keep, people like to talk about the meaning in the words or behind the words. They like to try to relate it to her biographically. I do want to keep underscoring the idea. This is really good writing. Yeah, without knowing anything else. Right, without, because I'm, you know, still my knowledge of her biography is very skimpy. Yeah. Compared to yours.

I have not spent the last 19 years following her. But, but yeah, this seven-line stanza is really nice, cohesive, rounded back up with the rhyme. I would say good writing. Agree, yeah. And she still uses a Syrahura, and she's still playing with things with really nice words. You know, you go back and you think about the contrasting words like fight and sleep, right, fish and drown. Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah, so you put the words together and the illiterative power, deal, devil.

Yeah. You know. And just father figure in general. Just father figure. Yes. So she's got real poetic power. And I think, again, this stanza shows it to us. Yeah, agreed. I don't know what the whole rest of the poem means. And sometimes I don't care because she's got really good writing right here. Yeah, I just, I'm telling you, I cannot stop telling people you'll be sleeping with the fishes before you know you're drowning. Good. I'm glad. But you got to say it with a New York accent.

Yeah. Yeah. Sleeping with the fish is. I just think like, I don't know. And this empire belongs to me. It kind of gives me chills because I feel like in a lot of Taylor's work, she forgets that she's Taylor Swift, which is a good thing. Like, she doesn't need to go around with like a giant head, like I own all of these things. But even on this album in, um, eldest daughter, she's like, I'm not a bad bitch. This isn't savage.

And because I think she just feels like she's just a girl, you know? But every once in a while, she remembers that she's Taylor Swift. And she's like, oh, yeah, this empire does belong to me. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She does have control.

Yeah. Yeah. And then in the life of a showgirl, she's like, they want me to die, but I'm immortal now. And it's like, yeah, you are. Like, your legacy is set in stone. Well, it is funny because when I was thinking about this as. as a reflection of a star is born. And, you know, I went back to the 1937, Janet Gainer, Frederick Marsh version.

And I thought, wow, that's almost 90 years ago now. Sure is. And yet I still love the movie. I remember the performances. I think about the way they performed. I think about the masterful way that Frederick March's young man was and how he was 30 years later. You know, there is a level of immortality and great. artists.

And just as these are immortal films. Right. Well, maybe not the Chris Christopherson one. But the other three? I don't know. But just as these are immortal films, I think that there is a level of immortality in some of her songs and in some of her works. Yeah.

Shall we go to the last line? Yeah. I do love the last two lines, you know, because again, We return to a quote. The last line of the very first stanza was a quote, and the last line of this stanza, almost the last line of the poem, is that same quote.

You know, you remind me of a younger me. I saw potential. Yeah. Now is she talking about herself? Yeah. I don't know. Hey, I am that person. I am that talented person who made these records.

I am that talented person who became what I am now. Yeah, I thought I had potential all along. Yeah, I saw it. I saw it. I knew I had this. Right. Yeah, there's a nice level of self-agency here that is very healthy, actually, I think. Now I'm being, you know, her psychological analyst, but.

We did get a comment. Somebody said, does Uncle Jerry think Taylor needs therapy? And I didn't answer because I'm like, how would you? Is he qualified to speak on that? I am not. There is such a thing as psychological criticism. And I have used it before. I used it actually writing a paper about Tesla Derbaville.

But, yeah, Tess is a mess. That should have been the title of my paper. But, you know, Tess gets hanged at the end. Oh, no, spoiler alert. I'm so sorry. But yes, I love the way the poem ends. I love returning to that quoted line. Me too.

Yeah, and realizing that the potential's right here. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of a masterful, full circle moment. It is. It's nice. Okay. Any other thoughts?

I think I'm done. Okay. Then we're going to watch the lyric video, and then we'll listen to the voice memo of her writing. this. Okay, great. Yes. And then we'll come back. Okay. Give me your thoughts.

So when I was watching the video, I love the way she says the word jag in the second line. You know, that pulled up to you in the jag. She's kind of tosses it off. Like, I'm entirely titled to be wealthy. Yeah. Yeah.

Just a normal thing in my life, a jag. Right. Right. Just to, you know, just a jag. and I like the Leave It With Me which is very rhythmically sung and then I Protect the Family

which is very pointed in the what do you call the vocal part where we hear them working on the lyrics? The voice memo. In the voice memo he says Treat that like a vocal drum Oh I didn't hear

I heard him say something about drums But yeah that's interesting I protect the family, which is cool. I also liked in the voice memo, like the line in the second verse, I showed you all the tricks of the trade. One of the things that makes that, you know, singable and nice line is, again, it's iambic. I showed you all the tricks of the trade, right?

So it's iambic. But when she first sung it, she said, I can teach you all the tricks of, but I can teach you is not rhythmical and it's a little clumsy. Yeah. And so she changes it to... Yeah, she eventually got there. Yeah, I showed you all the tricks of the trade, which is kind of fun. In the video, when she says, my dear protege, it's almost condescendingly possessive.

Yes. And I guess I had not noticed that before. It's just like, oh, you know, like you're such a little insect. I'm raising you up. Yeah, a shiny bug, you might say. Yeah, she's a shiny bug that you're raising up. And then while we were listening, you said you think the change in the bridge, I saw a change in you. Tell us what you said.

There's a key change there. There's a key change there. Yeah. And so I'm wondering if that key change is signaling to us that something has changed here, the narrator. See, I didn't pick up on that in my first listen at the movie. I didn't either. Or just now. It took me a bit.

Yeah. So there's a change and the word is change. And the narrative, the narrator changes. I think it's that blended narrator. Yeah. Yeah. And that last line is just sung so sarcastically. Yes.

You know, that's just laced. I like the separation of the syllables when she sings, when she says, you know you're drowning. Yeah. Again, Barry. Oh, you know you're drowning. Yes, you idiot. I've screwed you. You know, I just, yeah, I do like that again, she's pushing beyond sarcasm to really, you know, rub the bad dog's nose in it.

Yeah, it's fun. I like listening to it. Yeah, I just love this one so much. And I did not, when I first listened, I did not think this is going to be like a standout for me. but it really It's very fun I forgot to mention But as I was going over

My notes I also remembered I I wrote down Not just the Godfather But I also wrote Faust Do you know Faust by Gerta Or Faust is the story

Of this guy Who makes a deal With the devil You know Sells him his soul Okay Or did you ever say The movie bedazzled

No Yeah not a great movie But he makes a deal With the devil Or damn Yankees Okay Damn Yankees Yeah

Got this older guy who wants the Washington senators to finally win a pennant, and they just, they need a, they need a long ball hitter. And he makes a deal with the devil to go and play baseball as a young man. Yeah. I don't know. I just had echoes of all those movies kind of rolling through my head. Yeah, it is kind of cinematic. I guess, especially with, like, the mafia imagery, like, that just brings up so many.

Yeah. So many movies. I couldn't leave movies alone once I started seeing the mafia imagery. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, ready to grade it? Okay, I will grade it. Okay. But I have to tell you what you have done to me. Okay, oh no. So Angela came up with the grading scale, you know, these five criteria. And so I just kind of spout out, oh, how about an 88? How about a 96?

And you know what you have made me start doing? Oh, no. Is I've been grading other people. Oh, no. So, you know, I was watching a performer on Jimmy Kimmel a week and a half ago or something, and it was some performer with her brand new song out. And she's singing that song, and I'm sitting there listening to it. And because I am old and they talk fast, I have the captions up.

Oh, well, yeah. We do that in my house, too, because there's, like, a lot of dogs making noise. Well, I'm not even listening to her saying. I'm, like, looking at the captions, and I'm thinking. I'm thinking, that completely lacks any literary devices. There are no metaphors here. It's just plain upright. And, oh, man, look at that cliche.

She does. She drops it. There's nothing, you know, and I'm thinking, well, I mean, it's not horrible. Maybe this is an 82. And, okay, even worse, we were at the Texas State Fair. Okay. And there's this artist performing on stage. And she's singing a song.

she's a country western artist and she's singing a song and she said she got this idea because her cowboys come home tired and worn out and they just want to lay their head on a pillow and that pillow is a woman's breast and the song is I mean the chorus was you know lay your head on my pillows lay your head on my breast no it was not yes it was And I mean, by the second time around, everybody knew it because it was so dang obvious. Everybody's singing along, hugging on each other, rocking. And I'm thinking, this is just so anti-swifty. And I'm thinking, I mean, the best grade I could come up with was like a 38.

No. This poor woman. It was just, I mean, really, I'm just objectifying the feminine in order to be the pillow for some guy. Oh, my God. I mean... Wow, we really have ruined you. I know, you have twisted my mind. You have ruined me by showing me

A, good lyrics. Yeah. And B, making me do this for everybody else. That's so funny. The one on Jimmy Kimmel was, it wasn't too bad. I mean, it was, you know, a low B. The one at the state fair, uh-uh. No, I'm sorry, I'm not going there. I'm going to have to look up who that was at the state fair and find this song. Yeah, no. You don't really have to. That's so funny.

Okay, shall we grade this? Yes, please. I'm so sorry, but also not. Yeah. Oh, ouch. I mean, it's just, I mean, it's, it's, it's, I've gotten to the point where if I hear bad lyrics, I'm just going, hmm. Yeah, no, that, that's like, that I can't even be nice and give it a 50. You know, that's why I kept, Leslie, sorry, my wife asked me, uh, well, can you just give it a 50?

Because that's like, you know, the gratuitous grade. You give the. poor kid in class. Yeah. Yeah. And I said, no, I can't, I can't do it. Can't give that a 50? That's so funny.

Okay. Sorry. Grade for father figure. Yes, okay. Lyrical strength. Lyrical strength. First two lines always rhyme, kind of fun. You know, love the chorus with the interlocking seven rhyme pattern.

You know, not as strong, you know, she drops a lot of, she, she, she's, she's I can metaphor kind of out of her toolbox in some of these songs. Yeah. I do wonder if that's something that's affected people, you know, the haters who say, oh, these aren't as long. Yeah. Yeah. She's speaking less metaphorically. But I did like the twist on a dramatic monologue, having both speakers have their say in a kind of blended world.

So, yeah, I mean, I thought it was really nice, 96. Okay. Oh. Narrative and structure. Yeah. Again, the narration, the narrative. where we start out with the kind of puffed up godfather record company mentor, whoever you like figure,

and then you sort of transition to the mentee who is finally now controlling her own life. I like that. I like the structure. And I liked, very honestly, I liked not being quite sure when it changed. Because to me, you are never quite sure. when those relationships change, are you? Oh. You know what I mean?

I mean, you know, there's that moment when, I mean, when you wake up and realize, wow, our relationship isn't quite what it used to be. Yeah, but there's never an actual moment where you can pinpoint. Yeah, you know, it was, it was last December, you know, no, there's not a moment. Yeah. So I liked that. So I'm 97. Okay.

Production and atmosphere. Okay, well, I'm thinking about the video. I love the way that she sang it sometimes the way she very pointillistically gets to some of the lines. I love the way she said ambition, ignition, decisions, visions, right? So I liked that a great deal. I liked the shift in the musical tone there at the bridge when she's, says the word change that you pointed out. I thought that's very clever.

97. Okay. Lore and literary references. You know, I can't figure out if she's talking about a star is born or all about Eve or the godfather and good fellows or Faust and Bewitched and damn Yankees.

You know, I think all of it. I did like the blending of a lot the catchphrases step into my office, tricks of the trade, you know, the, um, sleeping with the fishes. Yeah. She did everything, but, um, cement overshoes. Yeah. Uh, 96. Okay.

And emotional impact. Uh, you know, for me, it, it wasn't terribly emotive, but I did, I did think that the lace of sarcasm in the last chorus and in the, um, the, um, you know, for me, it, it wasn't terribly emotive, but I did, I did think that the, Otro. Yes. I did like that. I mean, it kind of is one of those, you know what? Yeah, just twisting the knife a little bit more.

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, we had this amicable mentor-mente relationship, but, you know, you wanted to abuse me. And I'm just not going to be abused. Yeah. Just not. Yeah. And so I like that. I like that defiance.

Yes. So I guess I'm going to say 95. Okay. That gives us. 96. I am pleased with that. I don't know, Taylor. I just, I've got to find a bee in there.

We've had a couple bees. Have we? Yeah. All right. Well, yeah. We've had cold as you from her, from her first album, God of Beat. Oh, yes. And then your favorite cowboy like me with all the cliches.

Oh, yeah. I mean, well, that's a little bit, you know, a little juvenileia. So, yeah. Yeah. And that's okay, you know. Sometimes you just have to get a bee, you know? You know what? If I got a bee and sold as many records.

records as she did. I'd be fine with it. I'd be okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Is that all? I think that's all now.

We should get out of my head with the grading thing. I will. I will not. I am going to Google whoever that was performing at the state fair. Okay. Okay. That is all for us today. Make sure you're subscribed everywhere.

You can also follow on Instagram and TikTok to stay up to date at Swifty and Scholar pod. You can follow me on Instagram at Angela Wyatt McDowell, and you can follow Uncle Jerry straight to the movies to watch the next iteration of Starsborn. The fifth version. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you.