The Swiftie and The Scholar - The Cultural Critique of The Last Great American Dynasty

Episode Date: February 12, 2026

We’re off to Rhode Island by way of St. Louis in this episode! We’re breaking down Taylor Swift’s ‘the last great american dynasty’, a track from 2020’s folklore and the final song she submitted for induction into the Songwriters Hall of Fame. Uncle Jerry explains how his opinion on this poem changed from his first few readings, and Angela talks through her thoughts on the five submitted songs as a whole and why she thinks Taylor chose them.Works Cited:Blue Blood – Craig UngerA Rose for Emily – William FaulknerRebekah Harkness’ Starfish BroochThe Outrageous Life of Rebekah Harkness, Taylor Swift’s High-Society Muse – Elise TaylorThe Great Gatsby – F. Scott Fitzgerald – Aff LinkThe 100 Best Songs of 2020 – PitchforkJacob’s Pillowthe last great american dynasty lyric videoFollow Us:⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠Angela’s Instagram⁠Uncle Jerry’s Instagram

Welcome to the Swifty and the Scholar, the podcast where we examine the lyrics, lore, and literary legacy of Taylor Swift. I am Angela McDow the Swifty. And I am Jerry Coates, the scholar. Oh, hello, Uncle Jerry. Hello, Angela. How are you doing today? You know, it feels like a long day already. It certainly does.

So let's make quick worth of this. Okay. Okay, it's a poem. I feel like maybe you've changed your tune, no pun, and, intended on this song, but we'll get into it. I have no idea what you're talking about. Okay. But before we get into that, we are discussing today the last great American dynasty. And the reason we are talking about this one today is the last song for us to cover that Taylor

submitted to the Songwriters Hall of Fame to be inducted. And we do now know that she was inducted. Congratulations, Taylor. The ceremony will be in June or something. but whether or not we agree that these five songs are her best work, which I would say probably are not. It worked. You know, I would have listed So Long London and Peter.

Yeah. You know, that's okay. But I do have thoughts that we'll talk about at the end of why these five specifically, why I think these five were chosen, you know, how they kind of highlight her range and her depth and her lasting impact. But yeah This one is such This is so classic Taylor to me

This kind of song And so I'm excited to hear what you have to say This is Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off Are you really excited to hear? I'm excited what you have to say but not yet This was written by Taylor and Aaron Dessner This is on from Evermore

Sorry, folklore, not Evermore This is from folklore And produced by Aaron Dessner and I think we will hear later that Aaron Dessner had this track completed and sent it to Taylor

and then she wrote the song to the track. Oh, okay. So he wrote the music? Right. All right. Yeah. Okay, now I'm ready to hear what you have to say. Okay. First of all, I would like to I was reminded when I said, oh, so he wrote the music. I did want to respond to something one of our listeners wrote

and that is, you know, if I were to listen to the chorus on this song, and when I was reading that, I thought, you know, you do know that I have never heard these songs before. So I look at them purely as poetry. That's what we do here. Yeah, that's what we do here. And so the last great American dynasty, I've never heard this song, kind of interested to hear, you know, I'd have no clues.

I mean, it sounds like kind of a pompous title, but it works for the story. So, yeah. So. Okay. Jumping in. Yeah. What did you think when you heard the title, when you saw the title? I really did think about, I made a list, the Rockefellers, the Vanderbills, the Kennedys, right?

I thought about great American dynasties. And I did think about if Taylor Swift was going to kind of prefigure herself into that group. Because, you know, she's created a music dynasty. She owns all of her music now, the rights to all of her music, which is something that artists have been doing more and more of lately. I certainly empathize with any artists who has their music taken away. For sure. And, you know, the more I've learned from you about what's happened to her music

through the record companies, the more I have become attuned to that kind of thing. Same. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because I heard an interview with Don Henley, you know, of the Eagles, in case you haven't heard. The Eagles greatest hits, by the way, past 40 million album sales. It is the number one selling album in world history. That's crazy.

Well, it's their greatest hits. But he was talking about how he struggled with record companies early. You know, they kept trying to tell him what to do and how to phrase and what types of music were going to be successful. You know, so I do empathize with that. So, yeah, when I saw the last great American dynasty, I wondered if she was kind of placing herself in this group. It also reminded me of a former time in our cultural history here in America.

I have to specify here in America because... Because we're so international. So international. We had Chile. Yeah, the people from South America listening, Germany, all kinds of different places. It's so fun. So fun to see you guys' reactions. So, yeah, you know, earlier in our century when we had the Rockefellers and the Vanderbiltz and the Kennedys, you know, obviously people amassed great wealth and lived very lavish lifestyles.

And so I wondered if it was hearkening back to that former time period. Okay. Yeah. And then I started reading the poem. Yeah. And guess what? It kind of does. It really does focus on the 19.

40s, 50s. You know, so it starts off with Rebecca rode up on the train, the afternoon train. It was sunny. So clearly a kind of biographical tone and I wondered who's this Rebecca. And then I thought, oh wait, last great American dynasties they couldn't be talking about Rebecca Harkness.

Yeah, so I had never heard of Rebecca Harkness before this came out. So when I first heard her, talking about Rebecca. I'm like, who's Rebecca? What are we talking about? So I understood once we got to the bridge exactly what she was talking about, but I had to go like research who Rebecca Hardness was. But it makes sense to me that you know who she was. Well, you know, I think one of the reasons why I know who she is is she married into standard oil, right? And so yeah, I had taught that in American history class. But I also had observed our dance teachers as the dean.

of liberal arts. It was my job to go in and make evaluations on different professors on campus. And I went into dance appreciation courses and they talked a little bit about dance and her name came up. And I was kind of interested. There's a there is a biography, Blue Bloods, written about her. I have not read the biography. And no, I don't have a copy. They're waiting to see you reach back and just pull it out. No, I don't have a copy. And that's okay. But yeah, she was a dance of Vasario who supported a number of different dance companies, including her own. And so it became really clear four lines in who this was. And she kind of lived an infamous life.

But we'll talk about that. Yes. Okay. So Rebecca rode up on the afternoon train. It was sunny. Her salt box house on the coast took her mind off. St. Louis. Okay, so you know, one of the things

I like about her writing is, and the more often, okay, I'm going to confess when Angela first gave me this, I said, really, this is one of the ones she gave for her best song? You know, it's just, it's a kind of biographical thing, and

the writing is really good. Yeah. Yeah. So she, salt has a taste in your mouth, a salt box, you're on the coast, you can hear the ocean, you can see the White House. You know, so she's attacking our sensor, sensory imagery. And it's sunny outside.

It's sunny. You can picture that. And you can feel the warmth on your skin, you know. So she's got a lot of sensory imagery already in the first two lines, doing what she does really well as a writer. So, you know, I think my first, my initial first read-through was, this is okay. Yeah, because it's just, it's, it's. It's simply written. It's written in plain language.

Right. Like, this isn't like a poetic masterpiece, you know. But there is, right. There is something there. Yeah, about the third or fourth time I'm reading through it, I'm thinking, oh, this use of imagery here is really nice. And I started wondering about the saltbox house. So, yeah, I used to live in Arlington, Virginia,

and we would go up in that direction when my dad on vacations. And a saltbox house, if you had a saltbox house, if you don't know, is one of those houses where like one side is bigger than the other side. So literally they used to have a salt box which had a slanted lid and you would put salt down in and you'd like

lift the lid and get the salt. So it's one of those cantilever houses and it looks like it's off kilter like it's tilted or twisted somehow. And I thought oh, I wonder if she means this as a metaphor for her life that

right, that Rebecca lived a sort of off-balance life. Yeah, I thought that was pretty cool. And I thought, you know, if she doesn't, if she didn't do that intentionally, it really works. Yeah, it still works, yeah. As an image, because of the asymmetricality, try saying that. Good grief. No, thank you.

Of it is really cool when you compare it to Rebecca's life. And then later on, we're going to compare it to Taylor Swift's life. and the way external parties view her life is that she's off kilter somehow. She's twisted, she's contorted. Interesting. Okay, I love that. I like it. So this is a biographical narrative.

It's also a culture critique. And one of the things I like about it is she puts it on her album Folklore. Okay, so if you take that apart and make two words out of it, it's Folklore. So who's talking about Rebecca? It's the townspeople. It's all the gossip, right? So do we ever get to hear from Rebecca in this poem?

Never. We don't. Do we ever get to hear from Taylor Swift herself? Yes. Okay, but only at the end. But I don't know her at all. Like, you know, the example I always use is, I don't know what she eats for breakfast.

I don't know. I have no idea. I would love to know what Taylor eats for breakfast. You think? Genuinely. Is she cuckoo for cocoa? Popps? Maybe.

Yeah, you know, that's one of the cool things about the poem. So she meets Bill, who's the heir to the standard oil name and money. Okay, so she'd actually been married before. She lived in St. Louis, where she grew up. Her father was upper middle class, you know, fairly wealthy. And she'd married, got divorced. And she marries this extremely wealthy man. and the town said,

how did a middle-class divorcee do it? And the implication is she's a flawed character. Yeah. Right? She's middle-class, so she's not like us. She's not like Bill, who's upper-class. And she's a divorcee, so she's tainted. Two strikes.

Exactly. It's literally two strikes on her, and the town throws this label out at her. Okay, so you use the phrase the town, is personification. It's also a kind of apostrophe where an inanimate object makes an address. Okay. Okay.

Yeah. The town literally cannot speak. Okay. Yeah. Right. You know, and it was at this point, I really thought of a short story titled A Rose for Emily by William Faulkner. I don't know if you've ever read this. In a Rose for Emily, Emily lives a secluded life in her own house.

and no one's ever been inside the house. And everybody wonders what it's like in there, what it's like in there. And they're shocked when they finally, when Emily dies, because all the gossips of the town go rushing in because they want to see. Right. And so, you know, one of the themes of that particular short story is you just don't know what goes on next door. Right. You don't know what the other person thinks, does.

They don't know Rebecca Harkness. No. You know, they don't know her husband. and they don't know how and why he came to fall in love with her. You know, but they speculate and they pin labels on her. You know what that line makes me think of when it says, and the town said, and then they're like disparaging to a woman is the opening of Beauty and the Beast.

Oh, yeah, that's right. That's what I always picture is like that little town, you know, like Marie, the baguettes, hurry up. Like I always picture them, like, you know, talking about her. Yeah, she's walking through the town. They all speculate about how she's air. And she's always got her nose in a book. And yeah, they don't know her. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, this is sheer speculation. The wedding was charming, charming, if a little gauche. Okay, so we got a really nice, I sure there. And, you know, so we go from one direction to another direction, right? And so, you know what that makes me wonder? What? What is Taylor Swift's wedding going to look like?

Probably charming but a little ghost. You know? Will it be filled with celebrities? I'm sure it will be. I would assume, yes. Yes. Is there going to be a flashing diamond ring? For sure.

Absolutely. Yeah. You know, is it going to be an exotic location? Yeah, that I don't know. I have no idea. I feel like no. I'm going to guess she's not going to go to, I don't know, the just of the piece. Well, no.

Or maybe she's booked a suite in Terre Haute, Indiana. Yeah. Beautiful. there, right? Not that there's anything wrong with Tara Houghton. If you got married there, let us know. That's right. So the wedding

is charming, if a little ghost. There's only so far new money goes. So it's like you know, she's just new money. She doesn't have that much experience. They don't have that level of. Right. No taste. They

picked out of home and called at Holiday House, which sounds a little frivolous to the townspeople, their parties were tasteful, if a little loud. Again, we had this nice sussura, and you notice how they objectify this newly married couple. They picked out a home.

Their parties were tasteful. So the doctor had told them to settle down. It must have been her fault. His heart gave out. So poor old Bill, Mr. Standard Oil, died about nine or ten years after they got. got married. And they used to have wild parties.

And so the implication is she just wore the man out. Yeah. It's all her fault. Yeah. So if we go back up through the stanza, I do like the juxtapose terms. He's an heir. She's middle class. The wedding was charming, if a little gauche.

The parties were tasteful, if a little loud. And later on, we're going to find out at the end of the chorus. that she had a marvelous time ruining everything. And so, you know, people acknowledge that things are pretty amazing, but they find flaws in everything. And I wonder if this isn't going to become a theme, dear readers. Yeah, I think this is one of the themes of our poem. For sure.

Right? That looking inside from the outside, their perspective is always going to be skewed. Always. Yeah, they just, they really. We don't know. We don't know. And so all we see is the glitz and the charm and the beauty. And so we have to find fault because that helps make our pitiful little lives feel a little bit better.

Yeah. Like I don't have all that money, but it's fine because I'm not, you know, gauche. At least I'm not like that. Yeah. I didn't kill my husband because I wouldn't stop partying all the time. Yeah. Yeah, really, she killed him. He died of a heart attack because he had such a good time.

Yeah. Well, poor guy. And so we get to the course. And they said, right again, that outside perspective, there goes the last great American dynasty. Who knows if she ever, if she never showed up, what could have been? It's like, oh, she just stayed out of his life, you know, where might his life had gone? There goes the maddest woman this town has ever seen. Okay, we talked about madness last time.

We did. Mad women specifically. I pulled out my copy of, you know, the mad woman in the attic by Suzanne Gilbert and Gubar. You know, I think that that's a really interesting theme that tends to run through her poetry, through Taylor Swift's poetry. Yes. And I'm very sorry, everyone. They all got so mad at me for not mentioning in the episode that on, um, this album, there is a song called Mad Woman.

Oh, see, I had no idea. Yeah. Yeah, see, that's fun. I mean, you know, Mad Woman in the Attic is just perfect. It's that evaluation of 19th century writers and some of whom I know she knows. Yeah. She knows the Brontes and she knows Emily Dickinson. For sure.

And so, yeah, I think that she likes that characterization. Yeah. And it's that idea that, you know, powerful and maybe sometimes eccentric. women are somehow mad or expressive women are mad. Yeah, loud women. Just loud women. Yeah. So she had a marvelous time ruining everything.

And I haven't been talking a lot about the poetry. You know, there's not a lot. I went through and looked at a rhyme scheme, you know, Sunny Lewis money. So Sunny and Money rhyme. It goes, goes, house, loud. House and Loud kind of have a little slant rhyme going on down against slant rhyme. But not a lot of rhyme until we get to the chorus. We have Dynasty bin seen rhyme in the middle of the chorus.

But the rhyme is kind of subtle and a little bit withdrawn. So it's kind of the opposite of the blank space where that was so. And that's what we talked about. Like this is from folklore. Everything was a little, you know, looser. It was not the straight pop album. And so she has more fun with the rhymes. Right.

On all of these songs as compared to like 1989, where everything was like pop, you know, radio friendly. Yeah, she's still hitting on alliteration. You know, so if you look at the line, she had a marvelous time ruining everything. You look at the R's and the INGs, you know, so that the consonants really tie. that line together.

And it does, it's really nice when you just read it aloud marvelous time, ruining everything. Yeah, it's fun. It's fun to say. It's, it's, you know, dances trippingly on the tongue. So,

yeah, it's pretty nice. Yeah, agreed. Oh, and then things go dark for our girlfriend, Rebecca. Yeah. First two. Rebecca gave up on the Rhode Island set forever.

So goodbye to all that. Thanks, townspeople for characterizing me as a mad woman and for killing my husband. You don't know how much she loved him and he loved her. We don't know. Yeah. We don't know that he didn't want to stop the parties. Right. Yeah, absolutely.

We don't know any of that. She flew in all her bitchpack. Bitchpack friends from the city. Oh, no, not the city. The city girls. Yeah. So again, you see the juxtaposition. of town versus city.

Uh-huh. Yeah. Oh yeah, we've talked about this before where, yeah, one's bad and one's good. Right. Yeah. Town bad. I mean, town good, city bad. Town, pure, innocent, loving folks.

City, jaded. Yeah, we talked about this with Tis the Damn season because she was going back to the big city and she was in her hometown and, you know, it's like the trope of the Christmas movies. Right. Poor Los Angeles. It really takes it on the chin. Yeah. Just must be an awful place to be. I do have to say I have a group.

There's a group of four of us that we met on the internet and we've become friends and we are friends because of Taylor. And our group chat is named bitch pack friends because of this line. And I do have a bracelet right here from one of them that says bitchpack friends. Does your mama know about this? Yeah, I think she's seen the group chat. Oh, okay. I think she said that girl's an adult. She can do whatever she wants.

but also I still barely can say a bad word on this podcast because of her. Yeah. You know, it is interesting how we manipulate words. You know, when I was in high school and college, I used to be on debate teams. And you know what you call a really good guy, or at least we called a really good male debater was called a killer. That guy's a real killer. Okay. You know what you call a really good female debater?

A bitch. A bitch. Yeah. Oh, she's a bitch. You know, and if you think about the pejorated use of the term, you know, why isn't he something, you know, something a lot worse that starts with a B? Yeah. You know, and it's because we have, I think, two different valuations of males and females in our culture. We absolutely do.

Yeah. So, too bad. I think it's something that she acknowledges. I think that she uses bitch peck pretty proudly here. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of women have kind of taken that back. You know, they call their friends, you know, they're like, hey, bitch, you know. And it's like turning it into like an endearing thing rather than a...

At no time have I ever called my friends. No? No. I could try it. Hey, John, you bitch. I don't feel I'm watching. I think he would like that. I'm going to have to tell him.

He subscribed. I saw him. Good. I don't know if he watches. I'm not making that up. I do have a friend named John and so. Hey, John. He really did subscribe.

Yeah. I should also say that this is biographical. So Rebecca's group of friends work called the bitchback. Yes. So a lot of what we see in here is pretty strictly biographical, literally her friends. And, you know, one of the reasons why they were called that is they were kind of infamous for playing jokes on people. Oh, okay. So although I haven't read the book, you know, I did read an article about her in the context of being.

a dance emphyseario and one of the things that they said that she and her friends thought was a funny thing to do was put mineral oil into drinks at parties. Which makes people... I actually read the same thing. Did you? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So they got the label maybe for reasons other than they were just pranksters. Yeah. Yeah, that's a little... That is a little bit silly. It is. And rude. Mean. And they fill the pool.

with champagne and swam with the big names. Okay, so I love this, you know, because to swim with the big fish is a cliche, and they fill the pool with champagne. Yeah. And this is our typo-e Taylor Swift, where she takes a cliche, and she has to play with it. She has to change it somehow.

And it makes it better, you know, it makes it not a cliche, but she owns it. Also, you like the reference to champagne. Yeah. I think she has a song about that, Just a little bit. Yeah. Some problems.

Yeah, that's right. And, you know, I like the idea that champagne is emblematic of a wealthy class. And, you know, so she's just throwing money away. Yeah. And I think she really did this. This was real. Apparently she really did this. Yeah.

Filled up a pool with champagne. And now you have to realize I just said she was throwing money away, right? But was she, I mean, to you or to me that, might be throwing money away. But I don't know when you're the inheritor of the standard oil fortune. Yeah, it kind of doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. It's like a drop in the bucket to fill your pool with champagne. Or a bottle in the bucket. Um, oh. Again, we're making, you know, valuations of her behavior from the outside. Right. Right. We don't know who suggested the champagne of the pool. We don't know, to what extent.

and she bought into it, it may have been her, and certainly it was her money. And they swam with a big name. She had an A list of friends. And it's kind of like what you think about Taylor Swift. I mean, obviously, I'm not the Taylor Swift fan you are, but I'm sure you could name 10 different people that she knows or has been seen or photographed with by paparazzi.

Yeah, for sure. Which makes me want to sing the song, Paparazzi now, but I won't. Because we know you're a low monster. I am. Yeah, gets her paws up. And she blew through the money on the boys and the ballet. So, yeah. She did like ballet groups.

She supported the Joffrey Ballet. She supported Jerome Robbins. She supported her own Harkness Ballet Company. Some people said that she did extravagant things. Like she not only bought them dance venues. but she also bought them places to stay in New York. At one point she tried to open a home for retired dancers or for dancers who had been injured.

Well, you know, I don't understand why that's excessive. Yeah, I mean, this is taking care of people who's already like, right? Yeah. And if you love ballet, if you love dance, you know, I have, I'm going to say I have two very good friends, both of whom are dance teachers. And, you know, as they have hit 40, you know, it gets tougher. It gets hard.

Yeah. I mean, I've observed their movement classes. And I watch them and I think, man, I could not do that at 45. You know, I couldn't walk in that class and conduct a, you know, a one-and-half hour or a three-hour workout. session and with them leading and setting work on a dance group. And I do know that they have from time to time suffer different leg ankle injuries, knee injuries. And if you love dance, if you love ballet, if you're empathetic to the relative longevity of that career, which can be very short, why would you not try to open a kind of home or a place for

them? Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense to me. If I had all the money in the world. Sure. Like, you know. Again, you know, this is us looking from the outside. Yeah. Oh, she spent money on the boys and the ballet.

You know, let's not pass up the alliteration. Yes. Right. And blew through the money on the boys and the ballet, the BBB. So nice. Yeah, so nice. And you remember, alliteration, just sticking a bunch of consonants together is not. artful alliteration.

Right. Right. You want to use alliteration so that the sound that it resonates creates creates meaning in the sentence. And so the bees, the bu, blah, blah, blah, right, are kind of like hard, bouncy, you know. And I think it's supposed to be the harsh valuation on the way she blew through money. Yeah. Agreed.

So it's perfect alliteration. Can you feel a high mark coming from? I can. and I'm so happy. Poetic elements, yeah, I know. And losing on card game bets with Dolly. Okay, she knew Salvador Dahl. Yeah.

Okay, wait, can I show off? Yeah. Okay, excuse me? Uh-oh. Just a minute. Oh. Oh, it's right there. Right here.

Oh, goodness. This is my copy of Macbeth. Okay. So it's a box copy of Macbeth. I know. Look at the funky illustration. Can you see the funky illustration? Yeah.

So the illustrations, this is a first edition of 1930 and it's all of the illustrations are done by Salvador Dali. What? Yeah, it's a, it's a very freaky, funky kind of fun. Oh, yeah, there we go. So it's a copy of just of Macbeth, but with pencil illustrations drawn by Salvador Dali. You said from 1930? Uh-huh. Yeah, it's fun.

It's a nice box book. Cool. So she knew Salvador Dali. He did work for her. He kind of famously designed a brooch. I actually read about this when it was resold. So it was resold, I think, in 2023. He designed a starfish brooch that she wore.

And so, of course, it's covered with diamonds and other precious gemstones. And it's in the shape of a starfish with two detachable butterflies. I know. That's what I thought too. Charming if a little ghost. Charming, exactly. Charming if a little ghost. That's great. Who bought it? Why? I don't know. Did Taylor buy it?

No, I don't know. I'm wondering. Yeah, it was sold. I don't know. I mean, sold for a million dollars. That's crazy. So I thought, who has that kind of money? Oh, wait. Yeah, I know a girl. Yeah. Taylor Swift, do you have that bro? Tell us.

And detachable butterflies. I mean, I saw a picture of it. It's got these little butterflies that clip on two of the arms of the starfish. So interesting. A butterflies and a starfish. Those don't live together. It's Salvador Dali. Right.

So Salvador Dali would frequent her house. They did play cards. They laughed about how they cheated each other. He designed her funerary urn. Oh. Yeah, she loved dance, and so she wanted one that spun around. And so Dolly created this funerary urn with all kinds of gemstones on it that cost $250,000. Now, once again...

That was way back in the day, though, right? Well, I don't know, 1960 or so. That's a lot of money. I don't know exactly when he... Yeah, it's a lot of money. Yeah. It would be like spending a couple million dollars on your finery. And the story goes...

that when she died and they cremated her, not all of it fit in the urn. So she couldn't all dance and they took some back to her house. Oh, no. I hope it wasn't her feet. Yeah, so I don't know. Oh, yeah, the Starfish sold for a million dollars. Dolly made a sketch of the Starfish when he was getting ready to design it. The same person bought the sketch for $42,000.

It's an original Salvador dolly. I mean, that's cool. 42,000 doesn't seem like that crazy to own an original dolly. I know. Not that I have $42,000. No. But, yeah, so if you're going to call Rebecca Harkness crazy, I mean, you got to realize that somebody just a few years ago was just.

Still wanted that, yeah. Was just as crazy. Yeah. So, yeah, I guess it really depends on how much money do you have. You know, like, like I said, three or four times. through, I got these echoes of the Great Gatsby, don't you? Mm-hmm. You know, the Great Gatsby,

there's a passage in the Great Gatsby about putting champagne in the swimming pool and women wearing outlandish outfits and crazy jewelry. There's, Taylor's a couple of songs that are, that have allusions to Gatsby. And she does have another, a song that, where she says we were

swimming in a champagne sea. Oh, really? Yeah, from reputation and so before this. But that song feels very Gatsby to me. Right. And Gatsby has that same kind of narrative style where it's told through the eyes of Nick Carraway. But, you know, although he walks with Jay Gats

and he listens to Jay Gats and he interviews people who knew him, we don't really know Jay Gatsby. You know, we know that he wanted Daisy, but we, you know, we don't even know there are mysteries. I mean, that's one of the things Nick always says is where did he get his money? Yeah. Um, people said he got it making bets with, uh, Myra Walsheim in the novel, but we don't know.

Yeah. You know, like Nick Carraway, we're on the outside of that immediate group. Right. Yeah, he sees it, but doesn't know it. And I kind of got echoes both in the extravagance of the use of money, but also in the narrative style. Okay. Yeah. In the looking in.

Yeah. The looking in. Okay. So let's see. We get to the, oh, they're good. They said they're. there go the most shameless woman this town has ever seen oh she's shameless so she was the maddest and now she's the most shameless so she's bad she's shameless yeah i know it sounds like um i mentioned

that very famous characterization of lord byron you know where he's mad bad and dangerous to know yes yes yes yes very rebecca harkness she's mad bad and dangerous to know well then we get to the bridge Yes. And once again, we start with they. They say she was seen on occasion. Prancing or pacing the rocks, staring out at the midnight sea. Oh, like an old ghost. That's pretty nice.

And, you know, again, you get this, the language that use a lot of imagery, right? You hear the ocean, you see the midnight. Yeah, you can see the moon shining down on the water. and she's just like in a nightgown, like, you know. And the noise of it, the fact that she's pacing the rocks. And so the ocean is breaking against rocks. You know, again, with the use of imagery, a mediocre writer will say the ocean broke loudly against the rocks. She doesn't have to say that.

She says that there were rocks and she says that she's out of ocean. She shows us. She doesn't tell us. Right. So there they are and we get to hear it. And in a feud with her neighbor, she stole his dog and died at key lime green. And again, that's a biographical note. Yes, except that it was a cat. Oh, was it really?

Yes, it was a cat that they died key lime green. Yeah. But Taylor's a cat lady, and I think she didn't want a cat to be dyed key lime green, so she changed it to dog. Or it's some sort of weird, unreliable narrator thing. Really? Wow. Oh, I like that. That's kind of fun. Yeah, maybe it is an unreliable narrator.

I mean, I don't know. Yeah. No, but it sounds like the kind of thing that Taylor Swift might do. Say, no. 50 years is a long time. I like that line. It's so simple. And I have to say it's one of my favorite in the poem.

Okay. And the reason is because she reminds us very simply. And, I mean, just look at that line. 50 years is a long time. And there's, it's so straightforward and without pretense. you know Rebecca Harkness lived this long life and she did these many many things

and she knew these many many people and how many of us really knew her you know and you might think about summarizing a person's life with a few catty remarks she was gauche she was shameless she was mad but 50 years is a long time

no one is gauche for 50 years yeah she did a lot of things yeah no one is mad for 50 years No one's shameless for 50 years. Holiday House sat quietly on that beach. So I love the contrasting imagery between the loud crazy parties and the quiet house, the saltbox house, just waiting. Free of women with madness. I know, and I need to pull up my copy of Mad Woman in the attic.

There are men and bad habits. Okay. So who had the bad habits? The men or the mad women? So I was just about to ask you. I think it's ambiguous. I think it's intentionally ambiguous. And then it was bought by me.

What? We have the introduction of the first person narration. How did she get there? She just shifted narrative voices on me. I like genuinely whenever this happened, whenever I remember, I could tell you exactly, I'm not going to go into it, but I could tell you exactly where I was, listening to this for the first time. because it was during the pandemic.

And I was like, oh, this is, I was understanding, like, when she said Rhode Island, I was like, oh, this is about that house that Taylor has there. And then when she switched it to then it was bought by me, I, like, my brain, like, exploded. I'm like, what are we doing here? You know, but I love when she does this. And this is a thing that she does often where she tells a story of someone that came before her. And then at the end of the song, it's like, oh, she's telling. telling that person's story while she's telling her own story.

Yeah. And I am going to have to admit that my first time through, and you got that that reaction. I did. I did. Yes. I know. When I said, I don't understand.

Why is this a great poem that she throws out there for a competition? And I think I said that she feels a little self-important. You know, because she always has to interpose herself. Yeah. You know, so, oh, here she is. And I bought it. And that is just such a typical male thing. And I do apologize.

The more times I read it, the more I understood how she was making their two lives relevant one to another. And the more I really, really put myself in Taylor Swift's, sizable shoes. shoes. I have big feet. Size 14. So, yeah, the more I did, the more I thought, you know, this is, this is really good. I liked the turn and the shift of the first person narrator.

But it took me a few times. So, you know, please forgive me for being slow on the update. I mean, I honestly, this was not one of my folklore favorites whenever this album came out, but this one had to grow on me too. But now anytime I hear it, I like, I'm like,

everyone be quiet. We're listening to this story right now, you know? Right. But, like, I didn't, I didn't, like, love it at first either. I think it took me a minute to understand, like, oh, like, what I was just saying. Like, this is, these are the things that all the people have said about Rebecca, but now these are also all the things that they have said about Taylor. That's right.

Yeah. It took me a minute. Yeah. And my knee-jerk reaction is, oh, this feels self-important is just one more thing that people say about Taylor Swift. I know I fell right. into that groove, didn't I? And so, but I jumped out. The other thing that I will admit is that I don't do research for these things. Like I don't do biographical research. I want to read this just as a poem. But then I, but I knew about Rebecca Harkness and I knew something about her life and career. And I did respect her as a ballet and fessario. I like ballet and used to take students to ballet. But I think, but I think. thought, what?

Did she really buy that house? And I looked it up. Yeah. So she used to have, which we'll get to in the next chorus where she says there goes the loudest woman this town has ever seen. So she used to have these huge summer. They're like Fourth of July parties with like all of her friends, her celebrity friends. It was like, you know, Ryan Reynolds and Blake lively and like, you know, Tom Hiddleston was at one

of them all these models that she was friends with and they would have these huge parties and like at the end of the night they would all be singing karaoke you know with you know because like ed sheeran's there and and they you could hear you there's videos where people are standing on the street like down the street from this house and you can hear them like singing and having fun and stuff and so i think probably her neighbors are like get this woman out of here like we don't want her here and um so it's yeah it's just kind of the same It's like a woman comes along and doesn't fit into this exact mold that people want. And so we're going to say the same things about you and this house that, you know, 50 years before we were saying about that lady.

Right. Yeah. That's, you know, that's exactly what I read. Yeah. But I assumed you would tell me about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, these Fourth of July parties that the neighbors complained that they apparently shot fireworks and they had loud.

music and they really complained about the paparazzi. Yeah, of course. Just hundreds of people would show up to take photographs and try to force their way in and around the neighborhood. And, of course, it would be so intrusive. I would hate it. Yeah, for sure. Plus, I wouldn't be invited.

Yeah, invite us to the party and then we won't be mad. Right. So, yeah, I had no idea. Yeah. So I thought that was such a fun turn. And so, yes, I broke down and I looked up Wikipedia. Yeah. I said, did she really buy the Harkness House?

I said, I'll be darned. She actually did. And then I read that she also bought another one in Los Angeles. It was a historic home. And she's renovating it. And in the original 1920s, 30s style. And the historic foundation there has given her lots and lots of compliments and advice. They're very happy she's there.

So, okay, so we dive into the first person narrative. Who knows if I never showed up what? could have been. There goes the loudest woman this town has ever seen. It's like, yes, I am and I own it. I had a marvelous time ruining everything. Yeah, I ruined your peace and quiet and boy, we had fun. Yeah.

Yeah, I love the way that she's echoing, you know, that whole, the juxtaposition of terms is done here in whole stanzas, which is kind of fun. Yeah. And then in the outro, she says, I had a marvelous time ruining everything, a marvelous time ruining everything. Marvelous time. It was a marvelous time. I liked it. I liked it.

I liked it. I'm having fun. I don't know about the rest of you. Yeah. So I wrote my notes that Taylor Swift and Rebecca Harkness, they shared a house. But they shared the same scrutiny. They shared the same judgment. They shared the same criticism.

And they shared the same labeling. Interesting. Yeah, the labeling of mad and loud and shameless. Those labels fit both of them. Yeah. But so does the label marvelous. Yeah. Ooh, that's cool.

Well, then there. Yeah. Don't say anything else. Well, themes, obviously, we have a strongly feminist theme. You know, how does society react to powerful, independent women? You know, well, they shouldn't be spending their money that way. Well, they shouldn't be living their lives that way. Really? Have you heard about Epstein?

I mean, you know, it's, it, women tend to catch this, you know, the idea that it's just a wasteful, wasteful life. You know, I liked, I made another note, Holiday House serves as a narrative anchor. It's the lynch pin in the poem that connects both ends of the narrative, right? The Rebecca narrative and the tale. narrative are both pinned together using holiday house. And, you know, she didn't come up with a name, but she could have. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because, you know, from an external point of view, their lives are like a holiday.

They have no troubles. Right. Really? Have you heard her other songs? Yeah, I think that the house itself transcends the decades and time itself. And that's why I like the line, 50 years is a long time. Yeah, and you can also tie that into talking through a feminist lens. 50 years is a long time.

50 years ago, they were saying these things about a woman living a certain way. And now all these years later, a long time later, they're still treating me the same way. Right. But we're acting like things have changed. Yeah, oh, we're so modern now. No, we're not. Yeah. We still bash women over the head just because they're independent and,

they have a sense of self-worth and they have real genuine worth. Right, right, monetary worth, yeah. Okay, so I'm going to say one more thing. And that is, I did feel one sense, you know, it's so funny because people who buy expensive homes or historic homes or that kind of thing do come under a level of scrutiny and criticism just because of the extravagance. You know, the idea that you would buy this brooch designed by Salvador Dali. Yeah. But it's funny because this week I was watching television. I was watching a soccer game.

So I'm a huge soccer fan. Football to the rest of the world. And yeah, I love it. I love the sport, you know. I love it that you don't have to be this giant, massive hulking thing to play soccer. All you have to be is, you know, slick and quick and good. Yeah. I mean, you can be Leo Messi, right?

Shout out thought. Cantina. And I really like Newcastle because I was there a few years ago, did some work at the Durham University and Cathedral Library. And I went up to Newcastle and looked at the stadium. And one of my favorite players is Gordon, who's one of their strikers. And I read that he got a new contract. And I thought, oh, I'm just going to look him up.

And yeah, he's making like 20 million pounds, 15, 20 million pounds a year. And I thought, man, What kind of house could I buy with that sort of money? And I got on this website called On the Market, which sells English homes. Okay. And the first one that pops up is a 20 million pound home that's a grade two listed historic house built by the former mayor of Newcastle back around the year 1800 with 11 bedroom, seven baths, and an indoor swimming pool. That could hold everyone I know. And I thought, you know, if I had his case.

kind of money. I might buy that house. Yeah, absolutely. Like a historic house that you could work on and like restore to its former glory. How fun would that? Now I have no need for a giant house. I couldn't keep a giant house. I mean, you and your husband are looking at homes. I mean, if you had Taylor Swift money, what would your budget look like? Yeah, it would be a lot different. And it would, I wouldn't be buying a house. I would buy one house here, but I would buy a lot of houses. Yeah. Yeah, it would be fun, wouldn't it? Yeah. So I began to be a little less condemnatory of Taylor Swift.

Yeah, like, of course. I got to spend the money on something. Right. I got to make investments. In real estate's a great way to do that. Gordon, by the way, has a 25-year-old making $15. I hate that guy. Well, look at all those guys in the Premier League or in La Liga or places like that. they pull down some coin

for sure yeah well should we listen yes okay okay we are going to watch the lyric video and then we are going to watch from the long pond sessions which I think I've showed you one thing before where Jack and Aaron and Taylor

all sat around and played the whole album oh yeah cool we're gonna watch that as well okay okay we'll be right back tell me your thoughts okay so you know I said this I think every other time, but I always learn things when I hear her sing it because it's like listening to the poet read their poetry. You know, their intonation is never quite exactly what I would have read.

Right. Which is why I love to go to hear poets read their poetry. Yeah, totally different. Anytime there's a poet in town, man, I am there. So, yeah, Rebecca rode up on the afternoon train and then there's Sysheera. It was sunny. Yeah. Right. And so why Sunny? Well, Sunny's bright. Happy. Happy, right? It was no one had bad ideas. No one had bad feelings. No one was calling her mad. Yeah, I liked that. I like that very much. It's separated from all the feelings that the town would have later, right?

Yeah, well, and because it goes from Sunny to then we're like at the midnight seas chasing like in the dark. Yeah. Yeah. And I had not. noticed that until I heard her say, it was sunny. Yeah. So she paused and says, it was sunny. I love the way she says money. Yeah, she said Bill, Bill was the heir to the standard oil name. And money.

And money. Yes, it's like, oh, there's that. So here's the real source of jealousy. It's the money. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, people who hate Taylor Swift, give me a break. Have you really listened to her music?

Have you really analyzed the lyric? or do you just hate the fact she's got $2 billion and Holiday House and other several other houses? Several other houses. Do you just hate that? Does it somehow wrinkle you? Yeah, I love the...

And she does it again. She sings the word money differently and blew through the money she like, glim through the money on the boy. Yeah, she almost laughs about it. It's just like, money. hear you it's like that thing right um so yeah i just i don't know it was fun hearing her sing that yeah um the other thing i really liked was the um when she says and then it was bought by me and then the

percussion drops out yeah yeah so it's much more personal right it's it's all this sort of acoustic feel with no percussion no dress it's like she's undressed you know this this part is all just her Yeah. And so, you know, who knows if I never showed up, what could have been, you know. I also like the way she sings, who knows, you know, because I guess the Sychira there, I was reading past it. Who knows if I never showed up? But she says, who knows if I never showed it? Yeah. Because in fact, we don't know, you know. We don't know what happened because she showed up. Right. Because the bottom line, one of the themes is we don't know. Yeah.

You know, let people live their lives without trying to make evaluations. I also like that the outro kicks up an octave. You know, that's kind of fun too. But I really like the money and the it was sunny, you know. Yeah. Fun. Well, yeah, that was fun. Fun.

Okay, I want to read this real quick. Because this song for me, like I said, it wasn't one of my very favorites from folklore. but now it's pretty high up there on the list. But this is from a music critic talking to pitch for it. Her name is Anna G-G-A-G-A-G-A. I don't know how to pronounce that, G-A-C-A, about the 100 best songs of 2020. Okay.

And she says, a highlight from her summer quarantine album folklore that traces the glamorous, troubled life of 20th century heiress, Rebecca Hartness, With the intrigue of a story song and the intimacy of a biography, Swift delves into socialite anthropology and returns with an epitaph for a woman she'll never meet. The real magic is the winking humility of the image in the mirror. A woman criticized endlessly for being too rich and too gauche,

who knows that living well is still the best revenge. I wish you hadn't read that because I was going to say exactly that. I'm so sorry. That's a lovely way to somehow. Yeah, I just really liked that when I was like researching for this episode. And a lot of people, there were a few different quotes about this song saying that it's like one of the best she's ever written. And I don't know if I agree with that. But I do think it's just such a perfect little like nugget of a story and like the way that she tells stories.

It's just my favorite. And that's why we're here really, you know. Yeah, I think that's why I say I really got it, you know, after I read through it again a few times. So I'm going to throw a literary term at you one more time. And that is this is also in the genre of auto fiction. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Right. So autobiographical fiction.

So it's auto fiction. She takes a, you know, a story about someone who's actually, you know, we could write a biography about and then she applies it to herself. but it's couched in this weird fictional world where we're not really sure. We just don't know. I think she's sure. And what's wrong with living well? Right. You know, it's kind of like I said, you know, I would be duplicitous if I didn't admit that when I saw that mansion in Newcastle.

Like, oh, man, I do wish that I had that money. I know. Just for a moment, I thought, an indoor swimming pool in a historically listed building in, England, in the north of England, you know, I love Northumbria, I love Southern Scotland, I just, I wouldn't have

trouble. I could jump on the train and ride down to Durham and use the library. You know, you could go out to Tynemouth and take a walk by the sea and get fresh seafood. Oh, that would be rough. Yeah, tough life. Yeah, you know, I just need

the money. Yeah, one day, we'll get there, right? I'll still visit. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, and I also just want to chat about these five songs, taking it back to the Hall of Fame. Okay, good. Songwriters Hall of Fame. So I wrote some notes because I just have to.

So first of all, let's talk about the five songs. They were all too well, the 10-minute version. Brilliant. Yes. Blank space, anti-hero, love story, and then the last great American dynasty. So I wrote notes on like what I think. like why I think she chose these five and the different things that they do. So if we talk about all too well, this is like an epic, like this is a 10 minute long song.

This was never a single. But people just loved it so much. And then she told us there was a 10 minute version. We begged for it. We got it, you know, like 10 years after it was originally written. It's just like the, to me is like the perfect narrative, emotional narrative songwriting. Like that is like a masterclass in breakup songs, I think, you know? And then we have blank space, which came out in 2014.

And that is like pop perfection, a huge pop hit, but also takes her writing and she's like, okay, I'm going to write a satirical version of myself. I'm going to take what people are saying and I'm going to write a song in that character, which I think is the first time she ever really did that. and then anti-hero is kind of the opposite of that, which is it's more of an introspective, not what people say I am, but what I think I am.

I feel like there's a little bit of argument about that, whether that anti-hero is actually what she feels about herself or if it's her internalizing what people have said. But either way, I think it's like her fears about herself in a song. And then love story is just, you know, country, songwriting couched in like a Shakespeare retelling I guess metaphor I don't know what we would call that

I liked that song I really did yeah yeah and that you know that's a song from the most awarded country song of all time that she wrote when she was a teenager and then we have the last great American dynasty which I think kind of is like shows off her like historical storytelling I guess we could say

Absolutely. And how she's able to insert herself into stories about all these people that have come before her. And so I think there's just a really big range. Also, somebody did point out that I didn't catch was four of these songs are from her four Grammy-winning album of the year. Oh, wow. So folklore one album of the year, 1989, one album of the year. Fearless one album of the year and Midnight's run album of the year.

So the only one that didn't win album of the year was red, which is what all too well is from, which I would argue is the best song on this list. So that's kind of interesting. And also they span from 2008 all the way until 2022. Oh, right. Yeah. So I think it really, it just kind of,

it spans genres. She's switching from country to pop to whatever we would call this. I don't know. I mean, it's still pop, but it's a little bit folkier. It's really great narrative, as you characterize, really good storytelling. Yeah, yeah. And it's also the span of her career, like 2008 to 2022, like that's like kind of a lasting impact. And I think all of those things when I, when I think about them as a whole, just kind of makes it make more sense a little bit. Like explores her role as, you know, she's not afraid to like evolve her craft. She's not afraid to try something new. She's not afraid to switch it up and reinvent what she's doing and change the sound and change the style. And I don't know.

All of that, just like when I think of them as a whole, it just kind of makes sense to me. And I think it's even more telling that I think a lot of people would probably agree that all too well is one of her best written songs. But the other four, I mean, I think I would put four different songs there. And so the fact that she got in without using what most people I think would characterize as all of her best work, I think also says something, you know. But they do. I mean, I like the fact you point out they show a multifaceted writer. Yeah. Yeah.

And I had no idea she won Grammys for four out of five of them. Yeah. Yeah. So she had, so first she was, I think at the time she was when she won for Fearless in 2000, or I guess it would have been like 2009. She was the youngest person to win a Grammy, Grammy for Album of the Year. And then when she won in 2015 for 1989, she broke some record there. And then when she won her third one for Folklore, she was the only woman to ever win three album of the years.

And then when albums of the year. And then when she won her fourth one, she was the only person to ever do that. Wow. Yeah. Well, so, yeah, I know. How do you say no to that? Right. I mean, if you're reviewing her application.

Right, right. Four out of five Grammy winners, no, it's... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you have predictions about Ophelia? Is it up next year? It'll be next year, yeah.

Yeah, so we have a whole year. I don't know. I'm not sure. You don't know what the competition looks like. Right. Yeah. Yeah, okay. You ready to grade?

Oh, can I say one more thing? Yes, please. I'm a big bad. Buddy fan. Oh, he excited? I am excited about seeing the halftime show. He is great. Yeah, yes.

I like who he is and I guess I like his endorsement of his culture and of his locale. Yes, absolutely. Agreed. This will come out after, but we're excited to watch that tonight. As soon as we finish here. Okay. The last great American dynasty. Okay.

Ready? Ready. Lyrical strength. Oh, great storytelling. 98. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Okay.

Narrative and structure. I loved the, you know, I was at first turned off at the shift to a first-person narration, and then I really liked it. And I began to see how the two, one, reflected the life of the other. And so I'm going to say 98 again. Okay. Then we have production and atmosphere. Yeah, I loved the way the percussion dropped out when she comes into the picture.

You know, she comes in with a cooler sense of innocence. And so I'm going to say 98. I hate to be redundant. And then lore and literary references. Oh, see, I really like Rebecca Harkness and her story is interesting. to me. And I think almost anyone who, I don't know, who's a supporter of dance in American culture over the last hundred years, they have to take a rap because people think that it's flighty or useless. You know, one of my bucketless things to do is to go to, as it, Jacobs

Pillow, which is a place where modern dance began in America. Oh, okay, cool. So I'd like to take a pilgrimage to Jacobsfellow and to see a performance there. So, yeah, I'm pushing all the way to 99. Oh, my goodness. This is not how I thought this was going to go today. And emotional impact. I still want that house in Newcastle.

It made you want a house. It did. A different house. Well, it made me, it made me respect her for, you know, I'm just going to say, spending her money the way she wants to. I mean, go mind your damn business. Yeah, exactly.

You know, I'm sorry to have to cuss at all you people, but mind your own business when it comes to this. Ain't nobody got time for that. You know, let her spend her money on a fun historic home if that's where she wants to go. Yeah. So, yeah, I felt like shaking my copy of Mad Woman in the attic out again and saying, leave her alone. So yeah, 97.

Okay. Yeah. That gives us a 98. There you go. It's a 98. That's, this is very exciting for me personally because I thought this was going to get like an 85. Maybe she could win an award with this song. Oh, maybe so.

You think? Okay. Anything else? I think I'm done. I'm ready. Okay. Well, then I think that's it. Please make sure.

Thank you also for following. We just hit overnight 20,000 followers on Instagram. which is crazy. And like last week we hit 15,000 on TikTok. So thank you for following. And please do follow if you're not. I know we took a break and everybody was like freaking out that we weren't there. But I was posting on all the things and talked about taking a break and resting and stuff.

So if you follow along, then you'll know those things, which hopefully we don't take too many breaks. I thought for a moment Taylor was going to call us. Oh, she didn't. We came back in the nick. Okay. And then make sure you're following everywhere on, and subscribed on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. You can find us on Instagram and TikTok at Swiftian Scholar Pod. You can now find Uncle Jerry. He has over a thousand followers on Instagram. And he's posted one thing. I'm posting something else this week. I promise.

Oh, okay. He is at Dr. Uncle Jerry, Dr. Uncle Jerry, and I am at Anson. Angela Wyatt McDowell. And we will see you next week for a new batch of songs. All righty then. Bye. Bye. I'm gonna. And I'm gonna, and like my music, my cabello can't be able to continue my rhythm. For so, Potion Nine, of Sebastian Professional, has all what my hair needs. Nutrition Profunda, protection contraption against the encrespaid.

99% less of rotura and punas abirtas under control. New Potion Nine of Sebastian Professional, the secret professional of who not are people who don't see

the people who they're the business. Convient your passion in a

business and batte records of the payment with the form of

the world. You've heard the best the world.

The incredible system of Shopify facilita the services

on your website and the social and that's music for with Shopify.

Empeza your period of a month at shopify at shopify.