The Swiftie and The Scholar - The Many Literary Themes of All Too Well

Episode Date: September 25, 2025

Come walk through the door with us, cause the air is getting cooooold. Our 10th episode is here, and we were hoping you had 10 minutes to spare for this one. We are digging deep into the All Too Well universe, and Uncle Jerry compares both the original version and the 10 minute version, what he thinks about the lyrics that were redacted for the edited version, and Taylor Swift’s masterful use of metaphor and other literary devices in every line of this song. Works Cited:The Prelude – William Wordsworth – Affiliate LinkOrality and Literacy – Walter J. Ong – Aff LinkBirches – Robert FrostMending Wall – Robert FrostMetaphors We Live By – George Lakoff and Mark Johnson – Aff LinkIn Just – Spring – e.e. CummingsPoetry – Nikki GiovanniLet me not to the marriage of true minds (Sonnet 116) – William ShakespeareA Rose for Emily – William FaulknerFollow Us:⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠Angela’s Instagram⁠

Oh, nice, perfect. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. All right. Enjoy. See you in like four hours. Unfortunately, that might be true.

Okay, ready? Ready. Welcome to the Swifty and the Scholar, the podcast where we examine the lyrics, lore, and literary legacy of Taylor Swift. I am Angela McDowell the Swifty. And I am Dr. Jerry Coates, the scholar. Hello.

Hello, Angela. How we doing? I'm a little scared. Yeah, I think this will be our longest episode, yes, so she's going to get right into it. Yes, I've also been told by Angela that this is like her favorite song or one of them. So she qualified it by backing off a little bit because I think she has like 50 favorite Swift songs. So I want to, I'm playing with kid gloves on here. Okay, but I do some of your honest opinions.

Yes. We all do. Of course you do. Okay, so this song is like a phenomenon. Ah, okay. As you know, there are two versions. I do know that, yes. I have both versions.

Okay, so let me talk a little bit about why we have two versions. Okay. So, I actually have... Well, wait, can I ask something first? Yes. Why do we have two versions? Thank you. I thought you'd never ask.

So the reason we have two versions is that the 10-minute-long version was written originally. it was written off the cuff. She was in a tour rehearsal and came in in a sad mood, started playing some chords on her guitar. Her band all kind of joined in with her, and then these lyrics just started pouring out of her. And then she said that at the end of the rehearsal,

her mom went over to the sound guy. So they did that, and it went on for like 10 minutes or something. And her mom went over to the sound guy at the end of rehearsal, and I was like, hey, were you, like, recording that by chance? what just happened and the sound guy was like yeah and handed her a CD. Oh, cool. So then Taylor took this and went to Liz Rose, who we talked about on the Cold as You episode.

She worked with Liz Rose a lot in her early career and they whittled it down to what is a normal track length. Still a long song, but, you know, that could fit on a CD in 2012. And then she told us at some point, I don't remember when she told us that this 10 minute version existed and everybody was like, we're going to need that, you know. And we didn't get it ever. And then once she had to start her re-record project, she decided to re-record her albums. Red is the second album that we got in the re-record project. And what she did when she did those re-records, those Taylor's versions, is that she put

vault tracks on them. So there were tracks that she had recorded, written, recorded. but didn't actually make the final cut that we got released as Taylor's versions. And she also put the full version of All Too Well on this. Oh, okay. So that has like 30 songs, I think, read Taylor's version. Oh, okay.

So we got it in 2021, but I think it was originally written in like 2011. Right. Okay. So what I'm interested in hearing what you have, have to see what you think about what she cut out, why she cut that out. Right. If you think this is the best song ever written, those kinds of things. Without prejudicing beforehand, right?

Okay. Okay, first of all, can I give you a history lesson? Of course. Okay, so why would she only record the shorter version? Because it's conventional, because most listeners listen only to popular music of the 20th and early 21st century, and those tend to be two to four or five minutes long. Yes. Okay. The reason why, do you know why they're that length?

I do not. I assume to fit onto... That's one of the reasons. Like to fit onto modern. Yeah, there are two main reasons. One of them is technology, and one of them has to do with a radio ad, Oh, okay. So early recording technology, I have this.

What? Oh my gosh, we have props. It's my show and tell. I know. This is an Edison gold record. So this is a record. Wait, is this what they put into space? No.

Oh, okay. Because that was called a golden record too, wasn't it? Yeah, it was an actual gold record. Okay, okay. It was recorded on gold. So this is an Edison gold. Edison started recording on these cylinders in the late 8th. What?

And so you could only get, I mean, you can see the limitation of the cylinder is you could only get about two minutes worth of recording on these. So he developed later ones that you could get up to almost four minutes on. But if you narrow the groove, then I know, see how narrow the groove is? Okay, I see the grooves now. I couldn't even. Yeah. Yeah, if you narrow the groove, you diminish the sound quality. Ah, okay.

Right. So one of the reasons why we have shorter songs is because, The technology required the shorter songs. So we move from that to oh, these. Yeah. So this is a 78 record. Right? This is a 10-inch 78 record.

Again, you can get this from Pathet. This, by the way, right over here is my PATHA player. Oh, I never knew what that was over there. Yeah, it's a PATHA. So again, you could record two to four minutes or so. So what if you have a work by Beethoven and you want to record Beethoven, you know, say you want to record the 40-minute long 6th symphony or the 45-minute long, well, actually the 75-minute-long 9th symphony. Okay. You can't get it all on one of these.

You can't get it all on both sides. So they made these. Yeah. They made 12-inch discs like this. And these are very fragile today. So I collect these. I've got more than a thousand of them stacked around. Well, what if you have an artist who has a whole album that he wants to release?

Well, then you release it like this. Oh, is this like several. Yeah, so this is Hogi Carmichael, and he's got several of those 78 records. Okay. Which is like this? Right. Tortured poets. But it's, yeah, so it's like one song on each side.

So you have four of them packed in there or five of them packed in there. You get 10 songs. Oh, only one song? Right, one song on East. Oh, okay. So different than that. Yeah, so after that, they started coming out with these.

So this is an eight-inch long play record. Okay. So this is the entire soundtrack of singing in the rain, and it's got little grooves on both sides, and so you can get the whole soundtrack together. But then they went back to these. Oh, no. Uh-oh.

These are 45s. Okay, yes, yes, yes, yes. So this is the monkeys. I'm a believer, not your stepping stone by cold gems. I have it framed because I love the monkeys. Of course. Yeah, so I have a bunch of 45s. And it's in the original slip cover.

So kids would take the slip covers off and throw them away, stick the 45s in a 45 holder. And so the slip covers are kind of collectible. Oh, okay. Yeah, so that means, of course, I collect them. Yeah. But again, you're still limited. by technology to record those.

So one reason is the limitation of technology. Another reason is because of advertisers. You know, advertisers on radios really wanted songs two to three minutes in length because they wanted to play a song and hit the listener with an ad. Play a song, hit the listener with an ad. Yeah, can't do 75 minutes without an ad. So, you know, it becomes somewhat common in the 70s, Kat Stevens, early 70s, to start recording those longer.

versions of songs. But a lot of it has to do with technology and advertisement. So, of course, she's going to release the short version, and we're going to come back and release the long versions. When CDs came out, by the way, the CD capacity was about 75 minutes, and people

used to say it was so you could record the Beethoven Night Symphony. Right? So you get the entire thing on one CD. How goes back to that. Right. It goes back to Beethoven. Anyway, so there's your history of last year. Yeah, okay. So this is like a pretty common thing.

You know it is. I mean, I will say that long tracks are, they're meditative. They get inside of our soul. I'll never forget when the long track Indigata Davida came out. Do you know that song? No. Oh, man. Yeah, you know, we used to listen to it endlessly when I was in college.

Jethro Toll's Thick as a brick. Okay. Came out. Jethro Tull. You know Jethro Tull? I know that name, but I don't know anything about him. agree. But yeah, Iron Butterfly was Indigata Davita. Okay.

My favorite long track song, and we'll see if Taylor measures up there. Bob Dylan's sad-eyed lady of the lowlands is a beautifully written poem. And, oh yeah, by the way, a nice song. Yeah. But sad-eyed lady is stunningly well-written. It's one of the reasons why Bob Dylan won a Nobel Prize in Literature. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, you know, yes, has long ones.

Pink Floyd has long ones. Obviously, Kat Stevens. So it becomes something that people do to release their long tracks. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's fun, fun knowledge to have. Yeah. History of recording. Awesome.

Okay, now you want to know my reaction to her work. Yeah. I'll talk a little more about the track, just the details. and then we'll get into it, because I know you have a lot of notes over there. I do. Just full transparency, we've talked about this for a bit because you've had this one for a while. We haven't recorded in a minute. Also, we should say that there's been a lot of new news in the Swifty World.

We'll talk about all that next week on the next episode. Today we're focusing on this. Okay. But you've been out of town. We had a backlog. And now we're back. And so you've had this one for a while, and you called and said, what's this girl doing? This is so much.

Yeah. And I'm like, this is a lot. It is a lot. But this is what the people want. Oh, we want to give you what you want. So the first. But you can't always get what you want. But you try sometimes.

You just might get what you need. You do. Yeah. Who sings that? Gosh, I don't know. Rolling stones. Are you kidding? I know.

Nick Jagger. I know songs, but I never know who they're by. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, read the album. Okay. Came on in 2012.

This has been since 2012, my favorite Taylor Swift album. It's the saddest of albums. I mean, probably tortured poets is sadder now. But I just love it. This all too well was originally my first favorite song from this. And then, um, As time went on, I realized that that was a really common sentiment. This was never a single, but it's just like a cult, Swifty favorite.

You don't understand that first favorite implies that there will be multiple favorites. Oh, sorry. And the whole application on the word favorite would imply that, okay, I'm going to stop until you. Yes. This actually is, it is my absolute number one favorite. Okay, no pressure. But there are tiers of favorites. Okay.

Okay. Good. And we'll get into that later. But, um... Okay, I get it. So, Red 2012. Also, it's the first week of, of fall here. Mm-hmm.

And fall to me means the Red album and specifically all too well. Right. It's gold. It's autumn. Yeah. So that's why. There are leaves falling like pieces of puzzle. Oh my gosh.

He already knows it. I know. You can't even have been over and over and over this. This is, as I've said on most of our episodes now, track five on this album. Oh, it's track five. So we got another one checking off the list. Yeah, so written by Liz Rose and Taylor.

The original is produced by Nathan Chapman, who produced a lot of her early work. The 10-minute version is produced by our buddy Jack Antonoff. Oh, Jack. Never forget him. Yeah. So I do think, I've struggled with. with how we were going to cover this song, because I do think they're two very distinct things. But we're just covering them as one.

And we'll do another episode later on where we cover, you know, her, the short film. This has become a, it's a whole thing. The music video, she called a short film. Okay. We'll cover that later, the interviews she did about it. the things she said about it, all of that, that will come at a later date. Today we're just going to do the original five-minute version, then we're going to do 10-minute version,

and then I think we'll watch the Airs Tour Performance. Oh, boy. Okay. Okay, so that's all for me. Okay. Tell me what you got. Can we start with the five-minute version? Of course.

All right. Okay, wait, let me back up. Okay. I like the idea. I did not know. which version came first. But I like the idea that the chicken is bigger than the egg. Okay.

So the chicken must have come first. And I like the idea that it evolved organically. It does remind me a lot of the prelude by William Wordsworth. Okay. Not so much by content, but by structure. And I just happen to have right here at my left hand a copy of the prelude. Of course you do. Oh, that's beefy.

Oh, it has three dates. Okay, I see where you're going with this. Yeah, it has three dates. It says the prelude 1799, the prelude 1805, and the prelude 1850. Okay. So our man Wordsworth is out walking the lake country with Samuel Taylor Coleridge and his and Wordsworth's sister Dorothy. And Wordsworth liked to recite or workshop poems, especially with his buddy.

Coleridge, and his sister would doifully take notes. She also was a poet in her own right and wrote some very nice things. Check her out, Dorothy. But when he developed the prelude, the 1799 version, I've actually written on this. The 1799 version is much more oral and organic in many passages longer. He lengthens it in 1805. It's got a lot of elements of orality. We've talked a little bit about this.

See Walter J. Ong's book, Orality and Literacy. It's a classic. But orality has in it a number of different common traits. That is, it doesn't necessarily have to speak in whole sentences. You and I understand one another when we just have a phrase. It doesn't necessarily mind repetition, right? When you say things over and over again, it's reinforcing in the oral world. Right. So that's why we have oral formula. Like when we say prayers, we say, Amen at the end. When we start with a fairy tale, it begins. Once upon a time. Right. There's an oral formula. Right. So the early versions of the prelude have a lot of oral elements in it. And what he did by 1850, the year he also passed away, he was reediting this. And he made it more literary. And for me, he sanitized it.

Okay. Right. And so I like the fullness of the oral versions. Okay. Yeah. I like the redundancy. I like the immediacy of the text. Yeah, it's like a little messier, a little more real life. It is. It feels that way. That's edited. Perfect. That's perfect way to put it. Yeah. So I'm going to say, you know, I really, I love the second version, the 10-minute version. Yeah, I have a question about that. You said that they were in the Lakes District. They were. And by that, you mean in the UK?

Yes, in the UK, in the Lakes District. You know, Lake Windermere, you can walk around and see Tinturn Abbey. He composed a few lines written above Tinturn Abbey. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Taylor has a song. Can't wait to get.

Called the Lakes. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, I really like early Wordsworth. You know, late Wordsworth. so much. Okay. Yeah. But yeah, his early poems are just fantastic.

That is one of our, the late Spike Taylor. That's the song I used to convince you to do this. I know. And it is one of the most requested from people. And I will say that I do have it on the schedule for pretty soon. Okay, good. Yeah, I like that. So it's so, I feel like you're going to love it.

Okay. Okay. So I'm going to look at the sanitized short version. Okay. So this is a version that she clearly edited or redacted. There's a difference, right? Editing, you just clean things up, take things around. But redaction, you actually remove things.

So I wondered, I mean, if she were here, I would ask her, Taylor, is this a redaction? Did you not want to reveal the full emotional power? Did you not want to reveal just how hurt you felt? Yeah, I do think that that, is a little bit what it was. Because I think, as we will discuss, I think there's way more of a range of emotions in the longer one than there are, there and there is in the shorter version. And I think Taylor's brand at that time was just like, I'm not like almost, you're not allowed to be angry. You know, I think there's a lot of anger in the longer one.

Whereas she's just supposed to be sad about a breakup. She's just supposed to be the girl that writes the breakup songs. And it's like sad and heartbroken. But see, what I miss is the specificity. Absolutely. The immediacy of the moment she's remembering living is sometimes removed from this first version. I agree. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So the first version of All Too Well. Yes. I'm not going to go through everything that I saw in the second version because a lot of it's redundant. But I want to talk about the redactions, the things that she took out. So in verse two, we only have four lines of verse two. And then we have this redaction.

The whole moment of anticipating he's going to say, it's love, is gone. Yeah. Look at the words that are missing. Dead, gone, buried, pulse, grave, wonder. You know, all those words. are redacted from this early version. And so the emotional power that she feels buried, that she feels dead inside,

because the declaration of love never comes, is removed from this version. Yeah, and that's interesting, because that also feels a little bit to me like Taylor. So we should say also that you probably picked up on this, but she was 21 when she wrote this song. Oh, yeah, she mentions being 20 in the book. Yeah.

Yeah. And so she's very young. She's very much, like, her image is very clean, very, very good girl. You know, I get my heart broken, but I'm certainly not talking about, like, how much I want to die. You know, like, the mental health aspect is not brought into it. And also in 2012, it was a little less, it was, like, more taboo to talk about those things. Right. Now we talk about mental health all the time and for the better, you know.

But so I think when you're calling it the sanitized version a little bit, I'm like, but it absolutely is like it is the more, yeah, sanitized for society, for the for pop culture at the time. And it's less revelatory, right? She just shows a reveal to us the depth of her anxiety. Well, like you say, she redacts that I wanted to die. which may be hyperbolic, you know, and hyperbole is obviously a literary device. She uses very effectively. Yes.

But it's also questionably a matter of mental health. Right. And she just doesn't want to open all that up. Right. Yeah. Okay. So we have the chorus, and the chorus again is four lines long. And so what does she redact?

Well, you know, go back like I did. You know, if you're a Swifty out there, you're really interested, print off the long vision print off the short version and then start marking them up yeah what she redacts are words like secret um oath sacred prayer right the best line she's ever written in her whole life i know i think too i thought we'll get there i mean the chorus just says we were in the middle of the night we were dancing to the refrigerator lie down the stairs i remember it oh i remember it right but then what she goes on in the long version is to say i thought we had this oath i thought we should shared a sacred. I thought we had a sacred prayer, right? And so, I mean, the idea not only of

matrimony being a sacred moment, you know, but even more sacred than that, you know, the perfect love that two people can share should be a sacred thing. Right. All of that is removed from this text. Yeah. And, you know, I think it makes it more sanitized for general public consumption. Yes. I missed those Absolutely. Agreed. Yeah.

Then we had the bridge. Uh-huh. Okay, we love a bridge. Yeah. And at the end of the bridge, she just adds too well, right? Mm-hmm. But instead, she redacts this whole death image. Yeah.

Right? She redacts words like end, hell, double cross, die, weeping. I mean, if you just go back through and just look at the diction. Just look at the words that are missing. And hell, double cross, die, weeping. And she redacts the little scene with the actress, the party scene, who asks what happened. She redacts herself crying in a bathroom. And that's incredibly relevant to all of us.

I don't know. I mean, I'm sorry. I was in junior high school once. I've been dissed at a party by someone I thought was a girlfriend and you're looking around so you don't cry in front of the guys. Yeah, and you're like, okay, I got to go. I know. I'm telling you, it's like it is a, it's a moment that's incredibly relevant to your life, but it's also a revealing moment. Yeah.

Super vulnerable. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Incredibly vulnerable. And then we get to the end of the song And we've got this huge reaction Right

Yeah the biggest one Right yeah Verse 4 isn't there The outro isn't there You know what are we missing Words like maim, wind Down sacred rare And she repeats it

Mame win down secret rare And she repeats it Mame win down secret rare Right She just continues to roll over and over and over and over this in her mind. And, you know, instead of lengthening the song for radio consumption or for play on streaming services, by the way, I didn't mention this with my technical talk, you know, you get paid in

streaming servers usually just by the hit. Yeah. Right. Not by like the minute or. Right. So it doesn't matter whether you have a two-minute song or a 15-minute song, you get one payment. Right.

And so it's to your advantage to have a shorter song. It's also to your advantage when you re-release albums to add new songs. Yes. Very much so. You get more hits. And you start climbing. I mean, what has Justin Bieber just done? Have you heard about this?

Yeah, where he did the same thing where he put out like a double whammy. So yeah, he puts out one album. And then two or three weeks later, he puts out additional songs in the same album. His album was beginning to decline. I heard a report on it on NPR yesterday. They said it had dropped to number 17, and yesterday it was back up to number four. Ah, okay, yeah.

Because he releases the album a second time with new songs. Justin Bieber fans are going to go, ooh, new songs. Yeah, exactly. And so they jump in and they want to listen. But, yeah, I mean, we're missing all of that, the reverberation of emotion that she has in the fourth verse and just trailing out through the end of the song. Yeah, I agree. So the short version was absolutely my favorite Taylor Swift song since 2012.

And now since 2021 that we got this longer version, I'm like somehow this is, somehow it feels like a totally new song. It feels totally different. Some of that, I think, is the production. Some of it is obviously just, there's so much more to the story. But, yeah, I think that the 10-minute version is, like, so much better somehow. Oh, it's so much better. Yeah, the powerful words that she adds, I love the addition of things like oath and sacred prayer. You know, for me, for someone who takes marriage seriously.

You know, I find that to be a lovely, moment, a sad moment. Yeah. Right. I feel her piercing sadness when she adds words like that. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah.

So. Okay. Okay. Next. Let's get into the whole. Or do you have more about that? More about the redactions? Nope.

Okay. I'm good. Where are we going next? Just right into the 10 minute version? I guess. Okay. Yeah. I am.

Man, I marked this one all up. Yeah. I like to see that. Um. Okay, so we could start with the title. Yes. Yeah. What do you think of the title?

Sure. All too well. Okay. It's an idiom, right? We say, oh, I know that all too well. Or I've been there all too well, right? Mm-hmm. Which is generally considered to be ironic because it's, you know, she's not well.

Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. So, you know, obviously she under, she remembers it all too well. but she herself is unwell. So we have, right. So we have an ironic title. I have to pause you.

Stop you there for a sec. Okay. I have an Instagram account that I haven't told you about when I do a little writing based on Taylor Swift lyrics. Okay. And that account is called All Too Unwell. Yep. That would not be ironic. No.

No. Very real. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, so I like the title. Yeah. I love the Yosidium. I love the irony in it, you know.

I mean, I know immediately it's going to be one of her, oh, I broke up songs. Mm-hmm. Right. But not just an ordinary, oh, I'm crying in the bathroom song, right? It's my party and I'll cry if I want to. Yeah, because I have learned through your careful tutelage that she does something more. Yes. And she does a lot more in this.

Like a lot. Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about the poetics. Okay. It's primarily iambic. Okay. That's one unstressed, one stressed syllable. So it's bab bum, right?

So it would be babum, babum, babum, the shades of night were falling fast and through an alpine village fast. Yes. Except it's not like that, which is bad poetry for Montfellow. You know, it's more like reading Robert Frost. In Robert Frost's iambic pentameter, he writes blank verse, which is unrined iambic pentameter, so it doesn't rhyme. So he writes poems like birches or mending wall. Okay. Don't know either of those.

Oh, really? Yeah, I only know his one that they make you memorize. I don't know. Yeah, that one. Yeah, my little horse must think it's queer to stop without our farmhouse near. He gives us harness bells a shake to ask if there is some mistake. I've never read that one. Yeah, totally.

We can tell. We also talked about iambic pentameter in the last episode, Champagne Problems. You know, this is not strict iambic pentameter. It tends to use iams rather loosely. Okay. Right. So I walked through the door with you, the air was cold, but something about it felt like home somehow, right? Okay. Yeah. You hear all the IAMs rolling through there? The first few words are not necessarily Iambic, but the rest are I left my scarf there at your sister's house. I left my scarf there at your sister's house. So that's five Iams. That's ionic pentameter. But something about it felt like home somehow, right? Five. Okay. So five is pentameter. You have five of the those iambic feet, those iambic rhythmic patterns.

So yeah, it reminds me a lot of other poets. Why use iams? Iems tend to be serious. They tend to be somber. You know, Shakespeare's plays are all written in iambic pentameter, all 37 or so, depending upon which one you believe Shakespeare wrote.

So, yeah, we've got really nice use of um, iambic pentameter at times, certainly ions rolling through. You've got a sort of intermittent rhyme scheme. Um, you can see cold somehow, house now. Mm-hmm. So, um, somehow and now rhyme. Gays, plays, days. Mm-hmm.

And then upstate and plays rhymes. So you kind of got A, B, B, A. Okay. Um, so, you know, she's not consistent with a rhyme scheme, but consistent enough that, I would call this a rhyme. a rhymed, rhythmical poem. Okay.

And pretty nice, nicely done, you know, in 19th century poetry, especially in American poetry, we wanted consistency, right, the midnight ride of Paul Revere,

you know, the, oh gosh, the poem about Christmas, you know, the one I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, the mice and the...

The mice and, yeah. Yeah, we wanted that kind of rhythmical rhyming consistency. You know, today we're less, you know, fastened to that. Okay.

Oh, man, and then you get into the poem itself. Okay, can I make an overall comment? Oh, I love that. Overall, one of the things that I wrote down and I noticed was, I mean, I wrote after my second reading, And I read these things multiple times. Yeah. Right. And for those literary scholars out there, I mean, you guys know, you have to read a work 20 or 40 or however many times.

I mean, I've read The Odyssey 20 times and I still find new things in it. So the thing that I wrote down was it was very cinematic. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So if you go through the poem and you divide it up into scenes. Okay. I did that.

Okay. Okay. That'll be interesting when we actually do get to watch the short film to see if she cuts it into these same scenes. Yeah. You know, I mean, I was fascinated. So, Angela and I talked, I called her and I said, this is so much. And she mentioned that there had been a film. And I said, what?

One of the things I wrote was, this is so cinematic. And I started working on the scenes. So anyway, I wrote down 10 scenes. Okay. Okay. The first scene, walking through the door. to meet him. Mm-hmm.

Okay. The second scene is riding in the car. Uh-huh. The third scene is arriving in a small town running a red light. Mm-hmm. Fourth one is meeting parents looking through a photo album. Mm-hmm. The fifth one is the middle of the night dancing in the kitchen.

Uh-huh. The sixth one is after the break crying in a bathroom. Seventh is after a break at a party with an actress inquiring about what happened. Uh-huh. Side comment. Bitch. of the eighth scene, remembering when he met her dad, right, and him telling the dad's stories, you know, joking.

And then immediately the ninth scene, which to me was one of the most, one of the most, once it hit my heart, was the dad seeing her watching the front door missing him. Okay, so why did that hit me? Because you're a dad of daughters. Because I'm a dad of daughters. On the way here, I've thought about nothing else for the past few weeks of Dennis recording this, but on the way here, I was like, I feel like I need to ask Uncle Jerry if that line is what hit him the hardest. It really is.

It's one of the two or three that hit me the hardest. So both of my daughters have broken up. Yeah. Right? Yeah. One of them broke up with a long-term relationship. and I you know she may be watching so

hi I love you so much and I just if I could have fixed her broken heart I would have and she had a broken heart for weeks and weeks and weeks and you know

as a dad as a parent your heart is broken with her and you just there's nothing you can do you can't fix it you can't put your arm around her and say it's all right, because it's not all right. Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, I love that moment where the dad is watching her, watching the door.

You know, and so I'm going to say later, this is one of the major themes of the work. Yeah. The 10th scene, the last one, is remembering the plaid shirt days and knowing he still has the scarf. So we have articles of clothing that are linked up. Okay. Okay. So essentially, I mean, I went through and I just thought, okay, we've got scene after scene after scene after scene.

And the scenes are stitched together by her chorus, by, you know, the recitation of her that it's all too well. She remembers and she remembers. Right. She's remembering. So essentially what she's doing is sort of remembering the scenes, not necessarily in a chronological order, but in an order that is meaningful to her heart. Yeah.

So this is this, again, this one is not. not really in, well, it might, I, we're going to have to go through it. And I honestly can't really even remember if it's really in chronological, chronological order. But the last song we did, Champaign Problems, was completely shuffled around. See, I liked that. Yeah. I said it was like a Quentin Tarantino movie. Yes, yeah.

Yeah, the beginning winds up being the end. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

So those are the scenes. This is making me so happy. I feel like you're getting something out of this one. I'm getting it. Okay, so let me give you a footnote to the cinematic elements. Okay. This reminded me a great deal of different movies. Okay.

Because I am a movie buff. Yes. Right. And so, you know, they're riding through an open car in autumn. How many times have you seen that? Yeah. It's like every Carrie Grant movie. Yeah, it's like a scarf.

Yeah, she's got a scarf going. Yeah, it's in To Catch a Thief. It's in Topper, where he dies, by the way. Oh, dear. It's in Bringing Up Baby. Okay. Right. It's in The Heartbreak Kid.

It's in When Harry Met Sally. Oh, my gosh. A classic. It's a classic. Yeah, I just, You know, I love it. It's in Roman Holiday. It's in a place in the sun.

It's in Sabrina. It's a notebook. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's in Garden State. Okay, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's like how many movies. It's like a movie cliche to be writing through the countryside. And so, I mean, I don't know.

Is she channeling all this? I mean, I think everybody has seen at least one Kerry Grant movie where he's writing with some woman who's got a scarf trailing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she's usually blonde and it's blowing her hair. Yeah.

Yeah. And I don't know. I just felt with the opening scene, especially set in autumn. You know, I had echoes of that ending scene of big. Yeah. Yeah. Or the opening scene of Hoosiers where he's driving into the camera. Okay.

Yeah. So autumn scenes are unforgettable. One quick thing. This also what you just said about being in the car and stuff, this is the, I didn't bring the voice. final today, but this is the cover of Red Taylor's version, and she's in a car, the top down, you know? And so that's, and here's another picture that's like on the inside.

And I just, I've never really, like, connected that like, oh, this could be the car that's in all too well. Yeah, she just needs to carry a grant setting next to her driving. I guess so. Should I tell you who this song is about right now or at the end? Yeah, tell me. I honestly, I don't look these things up. Yeah.

I consciously stay away from it. So who is it? It's Jake Gyllenhaal. Oh, is it really? Uh-huh. Mr. Brokeback Mountain. Yeah. Oh, wow.

Jake Gyllenhaal. But he made that film about the disaster where the winter closes in on them in New York City day after tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, and he also made October Sky. I like that movie. Yeah. I like Jake Gillenhall. I used to make Jake Gillenhall.

He also is a little bit older than Taylor. Oh, yeah? Okay, a little bit? I want to say like, it's like 10-ish years, maybe nine years or something. Okay. So better than John Mayer that we've talked about before. Yes. But there is a line at the end where she says that we'll get to where she's like,

I'll get older, but your lovers stay my age. Yes. Jake Gyllenhaal is now 45 and he's been in a real. relationship with like for like seven years with a woman who is now only 30 so just throwing that out there that's cool nice work if you can get it oh that's interesting i like knowing that yeah so now when you're when this first chorus or first verse when she's talking about your sister's house that's maggie jillen hall is it really i love maggie jillen hall yeah yeah really yeah she's really a funky fun yeah she's Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I like both of them. I mean, I used to like both of them. It's okay. You're allowed to still like Jake Dillon Hall. Okay. Yeah. I never really wanted a broke back mountain relationship with him.

Okay. The poem. Yeah. So now you've got some faces. Okay. And I've got the whole cinematic element out of the way. Yeah. And I've talked about some of the poetics, the rhyme meter, the rhythmic pattern.

the poem begins. Yes. I walked through the door. Yes. Which is a metaphorical. She walked into the house. Okay, yes. The air was cold.

Okay, so cold. Okay, so readers, when a writer ends a line with a word, and if the word appears in the first line of the poem, please take note. The poet is, trying to tell you this is an important word okay okay so she sets the scene with the word cold yeah right so what's going to happen to the relationship it's going to go cold it's going to go cold um it's

said in autumn autumn is that season just before it gets really cold it gets really cold winter when all things die right oh no right so these are called artypal Images are archetypal symbols, right? So night is a symbol of death. Day is a symbol of life. Yes, winter, symbol of death. Autumn, symbol of impending death. Okay, okay, yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, please notice the archetypal symbols when you read. You know, this immediately hit me. This is foreshadowing. Yeah. Which is one less than five shadowing. But foreshadowing is when she gives you a hint, when a poet gives you a hint of something.

something that's going to come along. So, I mean, I read the first line. I think, okay, this is not going well already. Yeah. I never caught onto I walked through the door being like, we're beginning this thing. Yes. Like this is a metaphor for this relationship starting. Starting, but it's already cold.

Dang. Yeah, I know. It goes bad fast. But, and we can't read through the whole thing. That would take like three hours and we would lose most of you. something about it felt like home somehow. It was kind of like home. So here we have a simile comparing their relationship to a home, not just a house, something that's comfortable.

I left my scarf. Okay, so we had the scarf, the article of clothing, the personal bit, something that goes around her neck, you know, that she leaves it at the sister's house and you've got it in your drawer even now. So the question is, is he keeping it as a momento or is he keeping it as a trophy? Right? So it could be one of the other. And I guess if Taylor were here or maybe if Jake were here, I'd say, Jake, my man, are you happy with that scarf because it's a trophy of having had this incredible woman or is it just a memento of the wonderful months you spent together?

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I would hope the latter, but, you know, he's a guy. Oh, I just slammed all men everywhere. Okay. She says, oh, your sweet disposition in my wide-eyed gaze, which is a form of metaphor. We're singing in the car.

There's that scene. Getting lost upstate. Okay, so she's lost. Okay. Okay. So, you know what I always tell students about good writing is it's intentional, right? There is a high level, a high degree of intentionality in well-written poems, novels, plays. I don't think that she's getting lost by accident.

Okay. She's ready to lose herself, but also she's lost in a relationship that's not going to end well because it's autumn and it's cold and winter's coming. Okay. Interesting, yeah. Yeah. Autumn leaves, keep fall. like pieces. Here we have a simile. And I can picture it after all these years.

I love the image of picturing when you've got these images of puzzles falling into place and pieces. Because, you know, what happens when you get all the pieces together, you see the picture. Right. And then she says, I can picture it after all these years. So I love the linkage between the puzzle and the picture. Yeah, that's nice. Yeah. between those two.

It's also very alliterative, pieces, puzzle, pieces, place, picture. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So you've got this alliteration that ties the words together. Again, you know, bad writers use alliteration just because it's there. Good writers use alliteration because it's meaningful and it ties important phrases together. Gotcha.

She's tying important phrases together. Okay. And then we have the chorus. I know it's long gone. that magic's not here no more. Okay, comparing it to magic is a metaphor. Let me just tell you, I lost count of the metaphor. Yeah.

I did start typing a list of the literary devices. Oh, my goodness. Here are the two pages of them. Wow. I know. It's crazy. You know, I mean, you want me to run down them, walk through the door, felt like home, sweet disposition, wide-eyed gazed, leaves falling down like pieces.

I can picture it, you know, comparing it to a picture. Long gone. Magic's not here. Ran the red, wind in my hair, past future, drive down. We were dead and gone and buried. It just goes on. Keep this one page. So if you're interested in metaphors, and some of you have actually written that you're interested in metaphors, this is the Bible.

Okay. Yes. So this is Metaphors We Live by, by George Lecoff and Mark Johnson. This is my copy, and it's been well read. It was published in 1980. Okay. And so it is considered a classic, you know, literary analysis and linguistic analysis. Okay.

What they do is they talk about metaphors and they classify them. They're spatial metaphors, personal metaphors, ontological. metaphors. And, you know, if I really want to spend the time, and I did, actually, I stopped counting ontological metaphors at 13. Oh, my gosh. That's an important number for Taylor. You know, there are different types of metaphors, and you can go through her work and you can see patterns, these sort of revolving patterns of metaphors. The reason why they wrote the book is because metaphors aren't just comparisons, you know, like she was a soldier. Yeah.

Right. We've got that comparison between herself and a soldier who comes back half her weight. Yes. It's not just meaningful for the image it gives us, but metaphors actually link our lives. They help us understand the way we view, feel, touch, taste, the universe around us. Okay. I mean, they've got a, they have hundreds of examples of metaphors. So literally, if you're a student, I mean, this is such an important book.

They start off in the, in chapter one, I'm just, I'm going to read this to you. They give you the metaphor of argument as war. Okay, okay. Love that. Yeah. So when people argue, it's like a battle, right? Your claims are indefensible. Okay, yeah.

That's a war metaphor. Uh-huh. He attacked every weak point in my argument. Okay. Attacking metaphorical. His criticism were right on target. Okay. War metaphor.

I demolished his argument. Okay. I never won an argument with him like you win or lose a war. Uh-huh. You disagree? Well, okay, shoot. Oh. I know.

If you use that strategy, we'll wipe you out. Okay. He shot down all of my arguments. Oh, my goodness. Right. And so again and again and again, you get these kind of subtly embedded metaphors in the language we use every day. Yeah. That's just one example.

The book is filled with them. And it's, I guess I was overwhelmed reading this poem, realizing the depth of metaphorical language that she really engages in. Yeah. It's stunning. Yeah. Can you feel what great I'm going to be? I'm so happy. Okay.

She says, I might be okay, but I'm not fine at all. That's oxymoronic, right? Yeah. I've always, I've always wondered about that line. Yeah. Because it's like, are okay and fine that different? Mm-hmm. No, but that's why they feel different, right?

Yeah. They're both qualifiers. Yeah. Right? I feel okay. I feel fine. But she's not fine at all. Yeah.

Yeah. I love that. Okay. I love the way she uses the qualifier. Okay. Oh, gosh. Okay, so I just said we can't read through everyone in this poem because there are too many. You know, in the chorus, you almost ran the red.

Okay, is this an allusion to the title of the album? Maybe. Because you were looking over at me. He's infatuated. But, you know, it begs the question, is he in love? Right. I never called it when it was. Yeah, red is either the color of love or it's the color of blood.

Yeah. Oh, no. I'm going to say, again, this is not accidental. Okay. So the wind is in her hair. She remembers it all too well. And then we have that cinematic scene. Them at the parents' house or at the sisters.

Yeah, at the sister's house. Yeah. And so they're looking through a photo. and his cheeks are turning. Also red. Red. Yes, because he's embarrassed at being open and revealing himself to her. Or is he embarrassed because they're pictures of the naked baby in the bathtub?

Maybe both. Right. And, yeah, I think that what we get is one of the best qualities of modern poetry is ambiguity. Mm-hmm. Okay. You know, E. Cummings is an artist at ambiguity. He says, in just spring, the world was mudlushes, and the little lame balloon man whistles far and we. But the word just is at the end of the first line, in just.

And what does the word just mean? It means just like correct. But it can also mean just like only. Oh, just or only. I was going to say barely, but yeah. Or barely, just. It just barely spring, right? Yeah.

So which meaning is the correct? one. All of them. Whichever one you choose. Exactly. That's the nature. That's the beauty of ambiguity. Yeah.

Right. And so is he read because he's embarrassed or is he? Yeah. Or like is he read because his mom pulled out these photo albums telling stories and he's like, why are you doing this? This girl's not going to be around very long. Right. I'm not sure.

I'm going to. Yeah. Right. I don't know. Yeah. It's kind of delicious to think about both. Absolutely. Yeah. They're all images of him.

They're all stories of him. And you remember the picture in the eighth line, I can picture it all now, and now she's looking at literal pictures. Actual pictures. Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, the language connects really seamlessly in the poem. He, they're going to drive around.

He tosses the car keys at her and says, fuck the patriarchy. So normally the guy would drive, but he says, oh, what to happen with that. Yeah. Okay. So I have, I want to talk about two lines here. Dig into these. So first that, we can talk about that one first.

You're tossing me the car keys. F, the patriarchy. Yeah. So that's a thing that I think, um, is a newer phrase. And it, it became, um, kind of like a super popular thing. I want to, I would say like, you know, 2018, 2016, maybe, like with the rise of Trump, you know. Um, um. And this was supposedly written in, like, 2011.

And I remember some criticisms originally, like, she definitely wrote this, like, in 2021 when she was releasing it. And I'm like, you know, I kind of feel like that is something that in 2011 or 2012, Maggie Gyllenhaal would have been saying. Oh, yeah. I get that. And I also, I was convinced that, now, I know it's in quotes here, but I was convinced. here. I was convinced that F. the patriarchy was written on the keychain of like Maggie Gillen's, Gillen Hall's car keys that he tossed at her. And then, but with it being in quotations, it does feel like he said it. And so I don't know. I've always, I've always wondered about

that line, like, is, because then she sold a keychain after this came out as merch that had that on there. And so I'm like, okay. Yeah, baby. Yeah, exactly. Get those dollars. So it's like, is this something he said? Was it on the key chain or both? With it being in quotations, it does feel like that's what he said.

You know, I didn't, I love the idea that it's on the key chain. Yeah, yeah. I didn't think of that at all. Yeah, so it's just like a thing that he was tossing at her and it like literally was like flying at her face, you know. See, I took it as, you know, something he said and he's like masquerading as a feminist. Agree. Absolutely. Yeah. And so, you know, no, I'm not one of those guys. You know, here, you can drive.

Mm-hmm. Which, again, is really, you know, isn't that nice of him. Yeah. I suppose she should drop and say, oh, thank you. Yes. Thank you for letting me drive you around. Yeah. But I love the idea that's on the key chain.

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know, that's one of the things I would like to ask her. Yeah. But the line before that, you taught me about your past. thinking your future was me. Yeah. I feel like this might be the most underrated line in this, in this song. Yeah, that's why I marked past future as one of our literary devices on my.

Because this, this, this song is clearly chock full of like, line after line after line, like banger after bangor after bangor. Like, you know, her pen is on fire when she's writing this. And this line I never hear anyone talking about. But it feels so magical to me. Like what a sentence to say like, Like, she's here. She's listening to his mom tell these stories, seeing pictures of him, you know, playing

T-ball when he was a kid, and seeing him in his little twin bed wearing his cute little glasses. And she's like, oh, my God, this is, like, going to be my family someday. Right. I'm thinking he wants me to all know this. Like, he wants me to know all of this because I need to know all of him because we're going to spend the rest of our lives together. Mm-hmm.

But actually his cheeks are turning red because he's mad at his mom for telling her these things. Yeah, I love it that his past, she thinks is going to be his future, their future, but instead it's just now her past. Yes, yeah. Yeah, I love the juxtaposition for being past and future. Yeah. And again, very metaphorical. You know, I love the language she uses. The words are not careless.

Yeah. Or maybe the word is careless. I love that he tosses the keys. He doesn't hand her the keys. He doesn't throw the keys. He tosses them at the, like, it's almost like flipping. Yeah, it's like kind of careless. Oh, that's what you just said.

That's what. That's carelessness. Yeah. It's like, it's not even like, I care so much that I'm, like, angry and throwing these at you. And it's not like I'm being nice to you and just handing them off. It's like, me, whatever. Because later on, in fact, he will be careless. Yes.

Yes. So, yeah, I don't know. He does toss her. You know. So, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I just, like you said, every line has something that made me want to stop and reread. Thanks, by the way. Yeah.

When we came back from our trip, I did nothing for four days but read this. He just instantly dug right back into Taylor. Yeah. Yeah. And then we get to the end of the verse where we're dead. and gone, you know, he's going to say it's love, but you never called it what it was. He never says the L word. Yeah.

So, oh, sorry, this, we're getting into the juice of it now. But, um, so he's going to say it's love. Anytime now he's going to say it's love. You never called it what it was. So he, like, never says he loves her, but she's clearly like, this, this is love. This thing that we're doing is love, but he never says that. In a later album, she has a song called, Call, it what you want.

Where I think it's like this, and I always, I always think back to that because to me, that's, that song is about how it literally does not matter to me. If you say I'm your girlfriend, if you say I'm whatever, if you tell me you're loving me, because I know this thing is so real. And that's like what she was looking for here, but never got it. Man, oh man. Jake, I thought you were smarter than this. I mean, he played a NASA engineer.

October's die. I think that's just called acting. Oh, you mean he was only acting? Okay, so no, they doesn't, it's not love. Um, until we were dead and gone and buried. Okay, metaphorical. Right. They're not actually dead and gone and buried, but their relationship is, right? So here we have this, the extension of the metaphor throughout the end of the stanza, check the pulse. come back swearing it's the same after three months in the grave. So, yeah, they're dead. I also thought that it was interesting that they were in a previous line. I was thinking on the drive down, but they're going upstate.

Oh. So the direction downward would hit the grave. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I thought, I wondered if that was intentional where she talks about it, characterizes it as a drive down, and then she dies and gets buried. Oh, maybe so, yeah. And then, so this kind of, so after three months in the grave, you come back swearing it's the same after three months in the grave.

Does that to you mean like they had broken up for three months and then he comes back? Yeah, it feels like they were dead for three months and then he comes back. It feels like he reaches back out. She just apparently said, you're a vampire sucking my brother in blood. Go back to the grave. Yeah, we do have, so the red album is like a lot of songs about this relationship. Oh, yeah. And she has like the glitteryest of glitter gel-pin songs called We Are Never Getting Back Together.

And in that, it has a like spoken word part. And she's like, he calls me up and he's like, I still love you. And that's why I always picture is when he's after three months in the grave, it's that phone call. Can I just tell you I really dislike spoken word moments and songs? It's very, very dorky. Is it? But I kind of love it. At first, I was like a little cringed out about it, but now I love to do it in the car.

You know, even Elvis had a couple of songs when he does the spoken word thing. So, yeah, it's kind of weird. Or think Debra Harry and Blondie, the man from Mars, he eats guitars. Do you know that song? No. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. But now I have fun because I can do it perfectly with her.

So I like, I'm like, she's a couple of songs. Your favorite Taylor's song, Shake It Off, also has a spoken word. Shake it off. The only one I knew prior to our new beginning. Yeah, that one also has a spoken word part in it too. Okay. Silly. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. And then, are we moving on? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We get the pre-chorus. I know it's long gone. So, yeah, they rhyme because of.

the vowels, right? And so we have both alliteration with the ends and the G's. And, you know, we have assonance with the vowels. She just constantly throws literary devices at us because they are sonorous, they sound good. And it's repetition, you know, I think to remember that she's remembering this over and over again. and then we get to the scene in the middle of the night

where they're dancing around the kitchen in the refrigerator light and again how many movies have you seen where they're dancing at the refrigerator you know it's the movie frequency it's the movie big chill I don't know these are older films but there are a ton of movies where they're dancing by the refrigerator dark it's nighttime but the light is only coming from the fridge they're in the kitchen

A kitchen is, you know, it's where the hearth is. The hearth is the home. You know, it's where the family gathers to eat. But also remember, it is a refrigerator. So it's actually cold. It's cold. Ah. Ah.

The very first line tells us, it's cold. So, yeah, they're dancing. It seems romantic, but it's cold and they're down the stairs. There's that down. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe I'm reading too much. I don't think you are.

And then we have more similes at the end of the chorus. You kept me like a secret. Well, that's cold. Yeah. But I kept you like an oath, a sacred prayer, and we'd swear to remember it all too well. All lines that were omitted in the early version. And these are some of my favorite.

lines in this poem? This is my absolute favorite line she's ever written. Okay. When this song came out, um, as I've talked about before, we get the new albums. We get them at 11 p.m. than like the Thursday before. Um, at this time, I was living like downtown Dallas. I don't recall that. Chase was upstairs asleep with the other dogs. I had juniper with me. I, when the re-records came out, I would always just, I would skip the original album because I needed to go to sleep. I would listen to the new songs.

And then I would do the rest of the album the next day. And Chase got up and ran down to listen to you? Absolutely did not. No. He at this point, like, I think just kind of did not understand. He does now. I'm beginning to. I'm with it.

So I'm like sitting on the couch, down. stairs, down the stairs. And I'm like so hyped because I know I'm going to this song first. I'm like, I've been waiting since like 2012 to hear this. I'm going to it first. I think Juniper had had enough of my energy and she left. So I'm just completely alone. And I watched the lyric video. And when this line appeared in front of me and I heard her, I think I had to stop and like, cry. for a minute. Like, what in the world? You kept me like a secret, but I kept you like an oath. And then I made this line my personality for like the next four or five months. My coworker at the time, Amy can attest to this. Hi, Amy. Like, I could think of nothing else because I've been

there. You know, it's like you think that this is your forever, your thing, your person, and you're actually, like you're keeping them like an oath, like a sacred prayer, and you're just actually a little secret. Yes, you think it's a sacred thing, and somehow they don't worship at that same altar. Yeah. You know, and I don't mean that in a pejorative sense. I mean that in a real sense. Yeah, yeah.

I know, like I said, this was this and the father scene were my two favorite moments. And I love how you painted that scene, by the way, of you down there just listening to the song. There's a great line from a poem by Nicojivani. Okay. She just passed away a couple of years ago. Yeah, yeah. She wrote a poem titled Poetry, and she says, the poets wrap their loneliness around them at night and sit at a keyboard and type.

Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of a wonderful thing to wrap your loneliness around. you late at night and to do something you love and that for you is clearly listen to these lyrics. Yeah. And so it probably intensified the way it struck you. Absolutely. Yeah. I just like I still can't get over it. Like I just think it's so good. So did you hear echoes of Madonna with sacred prayer? Um, no, but now that you say that. Yeah. I wondered about it. Yeah. I mean, I don't know that there's any pop music that doesn't have like echoes of Madonna, you know.

since Madonna. And by the way, a great video. Okay. Yeah. And a lovely song. It's a really good song. Yeah. I'll have to listen to that on the way home.

Okay. The Bridge. Yes. Lost in Translation. Yeah. Bill Murray, Scarleton. Yeah. Sophia Coppola.

Directed the film. And it's obviously a great film, you know, Academy Award-winning film. and also a metaphor. It metaphorically treats us as though we don't speak the same language, as though we're linguistic speakers, but I'm saying something you can't understand. Interesting, yeah. Right.

And then the word lost, we've seen elsewhere in the same poem. Yeah, she's lost of state. Right. So, yeah, she's, again, she doesn't reapply these words accidentally. It's very intentional. Yeah, so I love the phrase. Yeah, I love the phrase for more than. than just the cliched element of everybody knows the movie.

You know, I love it because it's a metaphor. I love it for the reiteration of the word lost. I just connected, you saying that just made me connect to something later where she says, I'm trying to be my old self again, but I'm still trying to find her. Oh, yeah. She can't find her because she's lost. She's lost. Right.

Yeah. That I say this is going to be one of the themes. Yeah, it's one of the themes. Maybe the thing was a masterpiece till you talked. Pour it all up. Okay, we've got a metaphor. I mean, it's like, how many can be fact? I literally stopped counting at like 20 plus.

Yeah. It's almost 30 throughout the work. So again, thesis. Get to write in, guys. Just this poem is kind of stunning. You know, earlier we talked about how he pictures it or how she pictured it. We talked about a puzzle coming into place. So this image.

of people together. It's like the snapshots of these scenes that I described. Yeah. Right? Yeah. It was a masterpiece, so it was perfect. It should have been beautiful. It should have been admired.

Now it's just trash. Yeah. Yeah. So she's running scared. She remembers it. It's like a promise. She is, and this is another one of my favorite life. Yeah.

And this is, And this is in the original. This was like this, this I think is the standout part from the original version. I'm a crumpled up piece of paper lying there because I remember it all, all, that's a great line, a metaphor.

Yeah. Right. And so not only is she physically crumpled, like she's physically maimed, but why would you crumple a piece of, of paper. Because you messed up. It's like it's a mistake. Yeah, it's got errors. Yeah. And what do you do with a crumpled piece of paper? Throw it in the trash. You throw it in the trash. There are so many ways this metaphor works. Yeah. And is this piece of paper, this crumpled

up piece of paper, pieces of the masterpiece that he tore up? Could be pieces of the puzzle, the torn pieces of the masterpiece. Yeah. Yes, yes and yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So good. Yeah. I think so too. I think the internal. I think the internal. resonance, ooh, I like that phrase. Can I say it again? Yeah, do it. The internal resonance of the poem. That is nice.

It is really nice work, and it's fun to hear. I mean, I read this aloud several times. Yeah, just, I mean, you got to read poetry aloud. Yeah, right? Because you're not going to catch things. No, no, that's it. You see it on a page, and we're so used to being literate people that we forget that there is an oral world. There's an oral world, and there's an oral quality to all of these things.

And so, I mean, obviously she sings it, you know, but I haven't heard the song. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, we haven't even said that this time. I know. You're getting all this just from the words. I know. Well, and for me, reading it aloud, probably sounding a lot like Taylor Swift. Yeah, for sure, for sure.

Okay, they say all as well that ends well. Of course, you know, play by Shakespeare. Mm-hmm. But also, it doesn't end well because they say it. Yeah, yeah. They don't mean it. Yeah. Right.

They say it. But she's in hell. Yeah. You know, and that, by the way, people, is a metaphor. Is this also what I've learned from you is an internal rhyme? It is, yes. Well, hell. Yeah.

Yes, that's internal rhyme. Thank you very much. Yeah. Around us, I sure. Oh, my goodness. Look at us go. Every time you double-crossed my mind. Double-crossed mind is a metaphor.

How many metaphors can be stacked in one? I love this line. You double crossed my mind because it's like you're double crossed me. Yes. And you're crossing my mind over and over again. Yes. I love that. I do too.

Yeah. Yeah. I love it that double crossing, the crossing of the remembrance is what she's also talking about. You said if we've been closer in age, maybe it would have been fine. Again, comma in the middle, Sysheira, that made me want to die. It's hyperbolic. It's also metaphorical. it made her want to feel terrible.

The fact that they're not the same age, is that something she can help? No. No. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, okay, that's not, like I can be anything you want me to be except for older. Yeah. Or, and you can't be younger.

Yeah. So we're helpless in that regard. If that's an impediment to love, I'm quoting Shakespeare. It's from a sonnet. Look it up. Impetiment to love. No impediment to love. Love is not love that alters when it alteration finds.

If that's an impediment of love, that's something I can't fix, dude. Yeah, yeah. Which kind of feels like on purpose from him. Yeah. Like, because I think he does, like it feels to me like he knows she will do anything or be anything that I want her to be. So I have to choose the one thing that she can't be, that neither of us can change. So that way we have no choice.

Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of things you can fix. You've got bad breath. Well, I'll brush my teeth more often. I don't like your hair. Let me see what I can do about that. You know, I don't know. You know, you can't fix the age. There are some things you can't fix.

Yeah. You store, get a CPAP. I don't know, but you can't fix age. The idea you had of me, who was she? Never know exactly what you think of someone. else, right? Yeah, I don't know if you've ever read William Faulkner's A Rose for Emily. Okay.

It's a little short story. Okay. That does feel familiar. Yeah, it's really nice. Emily falls in love with some guy, but apparently he leaves town and she never gets married. And years and years and years and years later, Emily passes away and everybody goes into her house to see what it's like. They want to know how Emily lived.

and they find the dead guy in the bed. Okay. Okay, I do not remember that. Well, and one of the ideas is you never know what goes on next door. You know, you never know exactly what another person is thinking or feeling. You know, I mean, I like to think that I am open and honest with my spouse and she knows exactly how I feel and think. And that's true, about 96.3% of the time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there's that 3.7%. Yeah, that's very deep down in. Yeah, that's really hard to open up. Yeah. So, yeah, another good line in this poem. Agreed. She's never need a never needy, ever lovely jewel whose shine reflects on you.

So a jewel is an ornament. Is that all she is to him? Yeah. Just an ornament. That would, by the way, be a metaphor. Yeah. Do you get tired of hearing me say it? It's also alliteration, love, Lee, Jewel, never needy, you know, never, ever internal run.

Just interlocking loveliness in the poetics. And then not weeping in a party bathroom, as we said, we've all been there. Anyone who lives through high school, or she arrived. And some actress asking me, what happened? You, that's what happened. You. Oh, you know, and we've all had that person who comes up and asks. Yeah, like, oh, my God, that's wrong.

Yeah, I know. And sometimes with the best of intentions, like we don't know if this actress was a jealous biotch or was she? Genuinely concerned. Genuinely concerned. And we don't know who it was. I want to know so badly. This was. Okay.

Can I take a personal moment? Yeah. So when my first wife passed away, obviously you lose someone that close to you, and I was injured for months, months. And I would try to go to the church we had attended for 30 years. And every time I went well-meaning people who just I love and they love me. would come up and say, how are you?

Oh, gosh, the worst. You know, and it wasn't ever, hey, how are you? Yeah. You know. They said it like this. Oh, yeah, and they would always reach out and touch me. It's like, how are you? Mm-hmm.

Oh, well, how do you think? Yeah, so I don't know how the actress meant it, but there's no good way to ask that question. No, no, never. No. So, yeah, important safety note for those of you. Just don't ask. Just don't ask.

We all know everyone's thinking about it, but you don't have to ask. Smile and talk about the weather. Yeah. Okay. And then we get this dad scene. You know, the dad is helpless. You charmed my dad with those self-effacing jokes. You know, so he is putting on a persona.

Not being genuine. Yeah. Right. It seems to be a consistent element. Yes, yeah. And then I love the line, but then he, the dad, watched me, watched the front door all night, willing you to come. And he said, it's supposed to be fun turning 21.

So fun and one internal rhyme. Great line from the dad. Watch, watch. So nice. And then the remembrance of the front door. Oh, at the beginning we walked through the front door. We walked through the front door. And now she's waiting for him to walk through the front door.

Oh, no. I know. I'm telling you the internal consistency of the poem. Before we move on. Oh, yes, please. I do want to say that we have two things. We have a whole song about him not showing up to this party. Oh, really?

Uh-huh. From the original red album, it's a bonus track. Son of it. So we had that first before we had this section. Ah. And so this section of this song, which came out in 2021, really helped to, like, put all of that in perspective. Also, we know this was her 21st birthday, because her dad said it's supposed to be fun turning 21. And so obviously she had a bad time at her 21st birthday, but she has a song also on this album called 22.

That's all about, like, it's fun, glitter gel pin, pop, perfection called 22 about being 22. And it never occurred to me until, like, this song came out that she made 22 such a big deal because she had such a bad time at 21. Oh, I see. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun how the songs resonate. Yeah. That kids is why you should listen to the whole album. Uh-huh. Right. Yeah. That is such a terrible thing about streaming services. I'm sorry, they let us cherry pick. Oh, I agree, yeah. And I listen to Pandora all the time.

And I do. You know, and I put it on my 50s station. No, I don't. Well, sometimes I do. But, yeah, I mean, it cherry picks the songs. Yeah. You know, we forget that the songs are supposed to resonate one or another. And I'm for Taylor, I'm very much like an album.

girly. I love the story. Okay, come on. We've got to get done with this. Sorry, keep going, yes. Time won't fly. No, it won't. No.

Hey, you know what? We're like, I'm paralyzed by it. That's a metaphor. It's like every line. It's like every line's a metaphor. I know I got tired. I read you less than half my list. Yeah.

Okay, I'd like to be my old self again. Not possible. I'm still trying to find it. she's lost and we've already said that after plaid shirt days and nights when you made me your own

so you know the plaid shirt kind of a cliche is she wearing his shirt yeah a little button up moment and you know

plaid you know I think it could you know now that I think about Jake Gyllenha wears a lot of plaid

I want to his flannel that's cold yeah now you may only back my things I think I've already mentioned that

in Hamlet you know, Hamlet males, Hamlet tries to give Ophelia back the things. I'm sorry, Ophelia tries to give Hamlet back the things that he once gave her. She says that, you know, take these remembrances, you know, that when you gave them to me, they had a

wonderful smell. Yes, yes, yes. But now that, that fragrance gone, they don't mean anything to her. Well, apparently, the smell stays in her... Scarf. And again, I wrote, I wrote, wrote in my notes, is it a momento or is it a trophy? Mm-hmm.

You know, I began to think it might be a trophy. Is there any part of you that thinks the scarf is a metaphor? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, because the scarf is, you know, it's at one point it's a wind in the free and now it's around her neck and what do you think? Well, I never thought the scarf was a metaphor.

Okay. Until this version came out and Taylor, did some interviews. And a lot of people were talking about the scarf being a metaphor for, like, her innocence, her virginity, something. And they do ask her that question. I think she premiered the short film at, I want to say at TIF at the Toronto Film Festival. Oh, okay.

And there's a whole interview, which we'll watch that at a later date. And I think they do specifically just ask her that question. Interestingly enough, at some traditional May Day celebrations, you know, the girls are the ones who wrap the giant phallus, I mean, the pole. The Maypole. The Maypole with ribbons, and they wear white dresses except for a red scarf. Oh, dear. Okay. Well, there we go.

A symbol of their purity. Okay. Or the loss of impending. Okay. we're pressing ahead. Yes. Back before you lost the one real thing you've ever known. Yeah.

Yeah, it's real. Not Coca-Cola. She says it was rare several times. Downstairs, wind in the hair. It was rare. You know, rare can mean unique. It can mean precious. It can also mean underdone.

It can also mean incomplete. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So I wondered how many different meanings of rare we could apply. I've literally never picked up on that before. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and the wind is blowing, and does the wind blow away the puzzle pieces like it blows away the leaves? Does it blow away, just like it blew away the romance, you know? Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And we're going downstairs and not up.

She remembers it all too well. And then in verse four, she says, I was never good at. at telling jokes. Comparing their relationship to a joke. Oh, maybe so, yeah. Yeah, that would be metaphorical. Yeah. But the punchline goes, I'll get older, but your lovers stay my age.

And I wrote, he dates younger women, question mark. Yeah, apparently so. It's been over a decade. He's still at it, so. From your Brooklyn broke my skin and bones, figurative imagery, but also metaphor. You're Brooklyn, a metaphor for his home. And then what I think is one of the most powerful metaphors in the work. I'm a soldier who's returning half her weight.

Yeah. That the relationship was like a battle or maybe getting over the relationship was like a battle and a war that she did not win and returned from unscathed. Yeah. Right? She's lost. You love this line. Yeah, I do.

I love this line. And again, she's lost weight. So we have that loss. We're losing, yeah. Then we get more color imagery. You know, did the twin flame bruise paint your blue, black paint you blue. Twin flame, their loves.

Yeah, so twin flame is, okay, I think there's two meanings to this. So twin flame is like a thing in woo-woo astrology. Some people believe that you have you specifically have a twin flame like your it's like a like a soulmate on steroids Okay um but also we get in another song on red the the album opener called state of grace Um she says twin fire signs for blue eyes they're both Sagittarius's oh okay Which are fire signs good yeah um and so I didn't know that Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's cool.

I like that. Yeah. So I feel like there's two different meanings there. Oh, thank you. Yeah, that's good. And then just between us did the love affair maim you too. So we have the love affair becomes personified. So it becomes metaphor and into some kind of an animal.

Okay, yeah. And did it maim you too? So I'm wondering is blue the color of sadness, yes. Is blue also like a bruise? Yeah. Like was she bruised by an injured? Yeah, that's what I always think, too, both of those things. Yeah.

And then we got the rest of the song. I mean, it just goes on and on. Yeah, so it's just a lot of repetition. Right. Just kind of rolling remembrances. Yeah, what, okay, yes, I love that you said remembrances. Is that, what do you think is the point she's trying to get across with saying, like, I remember it, I was there. You, you, do you remember it?

Like, just between us. Like, there was wind in my hair. We went down the stairs. We set a sacred prayer. Like, what do you, what do you, what's the point? You know, I wonder if it's, it's like that, it's like that bad dream that keeps coming back and back and back. You know, there are, there are things that you never forget. And you try to get them out of your head and that they just keep coming back.

You know, I've had failures and I've had successes that do that. Yeah. And the failures, there are times when I wish I could get rid of them, but I just can't. You know, that argument that I had with my past wife that I wish I could, that was silly and I wish I could take it back, you know, but you can't because she's not here. And you just remember and remember and remember. And, you know, if I could be coached out of it, I would be, but you can't be. Yeah. Yeah.

So. I totally agree. And I also think, I know you've never dated a man who was a major gas lighter before. No. No, that's outside my experience. I have. But. And to me, all the, this whole song and specifically this outro is like her being like, you know, you were in this, this relationship to me was this oath that I made.

I was there. I remember all of the specific details. I know you were there. You remember the leaves falling. You remember going to your sister's house. You remember tossing me the car keys. But to me, it's like he is like, none of that happened. It wasn't that big of a deal.

It was just a fun little thing. And she's like, no, I remember it. Like, I remember these things. Because she says it was a real thing. Yeah. Yeah. I was there. It was rare.

I was there. Yes. You know, I remember him too, by the way. It just always, to me, like the repetition is like,

no, like, why don't you remember it the same way I remember it? What's wrong with you, dude? Yeah. Yeah.

Well. So good. It's really good, you know. So do you want to talk about major thematic ideas? Let's please do. loss obviously you know what's the nature of loss how do you analyze it what do you think about it

definitions of love she talks about an oath a promise that it's sacred that it involves prayer that it's real that it's rare that it's innocent that it's a masterpiece right all of those are definitions of love. These are things I think love are. You know, why didn't he catch a hold of any of them? And so she's exploring the meaning and the depth and breadth of love. Yeah. You know, Shakespeare, by the way, does this in Midsummer Night's Dream. He talks about what a lover is. A lover is a madman. You know, a lover is a poet, you know, and he... That's fun. Yeah, he looks at what love is. And I think she's... she's looking at what love is.

I think she's looking at the nature of memory. Okay. Right. How do we remember things? Which things do we pick to remember? You know, why do they stay in our mind? Well, because they impact our body, right? Because it's cold or because it's dark.

Or because I can feel his shirt on my arm. You know, because I remember the wind in my hair. Right? I mean, look at all the tactile images she uses. Very, very feeling-y. It has to do with sensory perception. Memory is tied to sensory perception. Those five senses, how we get at the world is what enhance supplement, augment, and eventually make permanent our sense of memory.

Yeah. And she explores that in the song. Yeah. And last time I'm going to say she looks at helplessness. Okay. Okay, because she's helpless to forget. Uh-huh. You're helpless to know the other person.

What is he actually thinking? What is his real intention? Sometimes you're helpless to reveal the self, right? She tried to show him how she felt. She waited for the reciprocal response, I love you. She's helpless to change her. her age. She's helpless to alter the reality. And for the father, he's helpless to help. Right. So it's an exploration of helplessness. Interesting. Yeah. So I think, I mean, these are at least

four big themes we've got in this song. You know, I always, I always used to joke with students. I said, if anybody ever asks you, what's the theme of this work? And And if it's a really great work, then you should sit back in your seat and you should say, aren't there many things? Which kind of makes you sound like an hessle. Yeah, it does a little. But, I mean, come on, you read the Shakespearean play, or you read a novel by Dickens or Tom Hardy or you read Steinbeck, you know, what's the theme? Yeah, there's not just one. There's not just one.

There are multiple themes. There are themes on themes. And I'm going to say that for this song, there are multiple themes. Yeah. And the theme of helplessness, the definitions of love, you know, all of those things stacked together for me to be a multity of themes and make it an important work. Yeah, absolutely. You know what you sound like right now? Tell me.

A Swifty. Oh, no. I'm the scholar. What? There's no need to. to do that. We don't need these labels. No.

You never call it what it was. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Are you ready to listen? Yeah, I'm kind of interested to hear how she sings a song. Do you want to hear the original version and the 10-minute version or just the 10-minute version? Oh. It's hard, right?

Yeah. Can I hear both? Yeah. I kind of like to hear both. Okay. Yeah, I will warn you that. So when we got Taylor's version, it was like kind of swifty rule. like don't go listen to those other ones because they get the bad men money.

And so I hadn't listened to the original versions in a while. If we do and she finds out, will she remember it? Yeah, all too well. No, no, we're allowed to now because she owns it all now. Oh. But her voice sounds so young. Oh, okay. Which makes it sadder.

Okay, that's the short version. You know, pretty cool, though. I mean, I learned a lot from listening to it. Yeah. It's still a good song. Yeah. And I like the way she stresses there. I was there.

It was real. She says it was rare. And then she's got that pause. And then I was there. He had that internal rhyme. And I love the way she turns it around the pause in the middle of the line. And then she says the same thing for him. When did my hair?

You were there. Yeah. You were there and you remember it. I know you do. I know you do. Yeah. I liked it. Yeah.

It's so good. It's still a strong song. Yeah. Yeah. If you had never known this existed. then that would be great. That would be a good sign. But now that you know all of this exists, it's like, well, now I need all that.

It's much richer. Yeah. Okay. Ten minute version. Uh-oh. What? 10-minute version? Uh-oh.

Oh. Okay. Glug. I've been told it's a masterpiece. I'm going to have an adult beverage. Would you care for any? Sure. Do we have glasses?

Right over there. Oh. Oh, my gosh. It's a party. It's a party. It's a mallbec for a rare song. I love a mallback. I know.

You were there. Okay. All right. Here we go. Okay. Oh. I need a little bit more. Yeah.

Gotta last you ten whole minutes. I know. Okay. To greatness. Cheers. We'll remember it. I'm still mad about the dad being played. You know, I don't need some guy walking in, you know, playing with my daughter and meeting me with.

somebody who's not just right you know yeah wow it's good right you know that is good uh i can't believe it was 10 minutes it didn't feel like 10 minutes no it goes it goes quickly maybe because of the wine because it's pretty good wine and so i don't know it is good wine okay i have to queue this up so give us your thoughts while i do that my thoughts yeah your thoughts on any of that if you if you're interested you know um i did i did like the 10 minute version of the song. Honestly, I think I like reading the 10-minute version better. Okay.

Because it allows me to see everything she's doing poetically, metaphorically, you know, how she's viewing the world. You know, another cool thing is, another precious thing, is we have two versions of the same song, and we get to see how she works. You know, one of the problems with things, like Google Docs is so often people will change the Google Goal Goal Goals to Google Docs and we don't have early versions. Right. Yes.

And so, I mean, one of the nice things about times when we use pen and paper or pencil and paper is we've got multiple versions of things. You know, we've got Keats writing a poem and then striking words out and we can see how he thinks. Yeah, you can't just hit back space and then it's never there again. Yeah, while he's building that poem, yeah. Yeah. But so we have two versions that we can kind of see how she thinks, which is kind of precious. I mean, you know, it's fun to see how she recreates one version for the five-minute general consumptions,

play on radio or streaming services, and then how she comes back with the version that really is more meaningful, fuller in poetic view. You know, that's kind of fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I like it. It's like going to, you know, it's like going to the University of Mississippi in Oxford

and looking at William Faulkner's papers or the University of Texas holds a lot of them now, too. You know, and you can go and you can see just how did he write, how did he think, how did he develop those works? Yeah. Yeah, it's a cool little glimpse. Yeah, I wish we had more of this stuff. I mean, I hope that she saves all the versions of her songs and I hope that she donates it to her favorite. Yeah. There actually are some, a few songs out there where she'll release, you know, her handwritten notes that have a different line than what made it onto the actual album.

Yeah, see, those are really cool. I went down to Baylor University. Uh-huh. I know her. And I went to the Armstrong Browning Library. I spent a week there. They had bought parts of Matthew Arnold, a 19th century poet and. writer, English writer born 1822 to 1888.

Okay, there you go. And they had bought some books from his library about 80 books. And in them they had marginalia. They had little comments that he wrote in the margin. That's nice. In Latin. Oh, my gosh. In many cases.

Well, I read Latin. Yeah. So I went down and I was looking at the things he would write in books in Latin. And it's such a fun window. I mean, so it's fun having two versions. Yeah. It's fun hearing two versions. Yeah.

Yeah, and how the production is totally different. Like you said, like the acoustic version, or I mean, sorry, the five-minute version had, like, the acoustic guitar at the beginning. Right. And because that was when she was still kind of in a more country space. So she had a lot of acoustic guitar. And now the one that came out recently is much more like, you know, Jackie Antonoff, like Cynthia a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Fun. Yeah. Air-airy, in fact. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so last thing is her singing this at the Eros tour.

You've got another one. I want you to see the theater kid version of Taylor, you know, with her facial expressions and her, you know, okay. Do it. I still have a little more wine. Chills. Well, okay. Gooseys. You know, I guess I had not remembered that the last words are you remember it.

It's like she needs them to remember it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Surely he remembers. Yeah. It's too much stuff for him to forget. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. You feel like you got all the story now? I feel like you just listened to that so many times. I got 25 minutes worth of Taylor singing one song. Thank you.

Just what you always wanted, right? Yeah. Okay. You want to grade it? Nope. You have to. I have to? Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Okay, so a reminder for everyone. Yeah. We have five criteria. This one, if I were grading, we get hundreds across the board, but don't let that sway you. Okay, all too well. We can do this on anything you've heard or read here today. Okay.

Okay, lyrical strength. Okay, I'm going to give it two greats. Oh, dear. Okay. Okay, lyrical strength for the, um, Five-minute version? Uh-huh. I'm going to say 93.

Okay. Okay. 93. I'm a little bothered by the inconsistent rhyme elements. Okay. But I do like them in the long version. So I'm going to say 99. Oh, geez, Louise.

Okay. I don't think we've ever gotten to 99 before. Okay. Okay. Narrative and structure. Okay. So for the five minutes. minute version, I'm a little prejudiced by reading the 10 minute version because the 10 minute

is so strong in its episodic scenic elements. So I'm going to say 91. For the 10 minute version, I have a strong set of images. I mean, I didn't need, you know, for a three and a half, four-page poem, She delivers a series of images that I will remember anytime I think about her poetry. So I'm going to say 100. Oh, my gosh. I know. I know. Oh, my gosh.

Tell me if I'm exaggerating. You're not. Okay. Production and atmosphere. Oh, you know, I actually liked the five-minute version. I liked the acoustic guitar. We saw the ERIS tour. I liked the ERIS tour version with the guitar.

and someone playing behind her, obviously, when she stops playing. Yeah. Yeah. We have the same playing. Yeah. She's got a live band behind her. Yeah. So I did like that.

95. Okay. For... The five minutes. Okay. 95. Yeah. I thought it was very strong.

Okay. For the 10-minute version, you know, I don't like, I don't know if I like the synth opening. Okay. It was a little airy, and I get that. Kind of smuggy, smoky. felt a little like so long London. Yeah, for sure, yeah. You know, and so 97.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, I still thought it was obviously great music. I mean, everybody knows. Yeah, it's just like a preference to whether you, and I prefer the acoustic guitar as well, totally. Okay, lore and literary references. Oh, yeah. The references, I feel very strongly she's referring to a number of different movie scenes,

especially with the wind in her hair. I mean, I can just see Ingrid Bergman and Carrie Grant or Carrie Grant and Catherine Hepburn. You know, if it has a movie scene and I'm just completely taken,

the refrigerator dance scene, fun. Again, it reminds me of the scene of frequency and a number of other films. Actually, it goes all the way back to 1934 where it happened one night. Oh, okay.

with the open car driving. Gosh. I guess 99. For the five? For five, there weren't as many. I mean, I'd say 92. Okay. But for the 10-minute version, it's a 99.

Oh, my gosh. It's wonderful. I cannot believe this is going to get your highest grade. This is all my wildest dreams come true. Emotional impact. Oh, that's unfair. because when I read the line about the dad. Yeah.

Okay. So that's the, that's only in the 10 minute version. I know. Yeah. I know. Yeah. Okay.

I'm going to say that the five minute versions may be 91. Okay. The 10 minute version, I loved the crumpled paper line. I loved the, you know, the dad business. The oaths and the secrets.

The sacred promises. Yeah, that's 100. Oh my goodness. gracious. Okay. So the five-minute version gets a 92.4. Good, good score.

Solid A. The 10-minute version gets a 99. You know? I mean it, Tadley. Wow. This, brilliant work. I have been so nervous. Since we, since I pitched this, this podcast to you, I was like, what is he going to think

of all too well? Like, I don't think I can handle it if he doesn't, like, it'll do well. But this is above and beyond what I expected. You know, it's not just that I counted more than 30, actually 40 literary devices. And it's not just that the preponderance of them are metaphor similes. It's not just that the rhythmic and rhyme power is really good, strong. And it's not just the scenic elements. I think that the themes are very strong.

Agreed. You know, I mean, if there's, if, if all you're doing is tricking, tricking a poem out with fancy language, you know, it's, it still doesn't drive. Yeah. Those definitions of love, the feeling of helplessness, the analysis of memory, you know, those are important themes in literature. And so, you know, I would say this is an important. work. This has made me so happy today. I just pander to your every dream.

You actually did. Well, there you go. Okay, I'm so happy we've done this. I'm so happy you loved it. I'm so happy that you're on your way past Swift Curious. You know, I am. I will tell you that I walked into the living room last night while Leslie, my wife was watching the CSU game, Colorado State University, her alma mater.

Um, she was watching the CSU game. And I walked in there and I just stood there and she said, what's wrong? And I said, this is such good work. I said, it's just so fun. And there you go. That's exactly it. Yeah. It's just chalk full of everything we've ever wanted.

Yeah, thank you for introducing you to it. Oh my gosh. This is, yeah, this is so fun. Okay. Um, yeah, that's it. Is that all? That's all we got. Okay. So make sure you're following us.

Um, no. the wine's gone. I'm slack in here. Follow us on TikTok, Instagram, at Swiftie ScholarPod. Make sure you're subscribed YouTube, Spotify, wherever else you want to be. You can find me. Oh, I did change my Instagram name to Angela Wyatt McDow, since I introduced myself as McDow here, and then I'd say, follow me at Angela Wyatt. So it's now at Angela Wyatt McDow. Angela McDow was taken.

And so there's another one of us somewhere. And yeah, you can find me there, Angela Wai McDowell. You can find Uncle Jerry here reading all too well probably or reading about metaphors. I'll be studying my metaphors that we live by. Yeah, and that book will be linked in the description as well. It's a classic, but it's that for a reason. Yeah. It's the best.

Yeah. Okay. And then we will be back next week. We're going to answer some of your questions and talk about, you know, all of the exciting Swifty news we've got lately. And then we'll get back into. the songs in a couple weeks. Thanks for listening.

Thank you. Bye.