The Swiftie and The Scholar - The Nature of Fame in Mirrorball

Episode Date: May 28, 2026

We’re back in our folklore era with mirrorball today! Uncle Jerry had some extra time with this one and doesn’t even know where to start the discussion. We get into the uses of mirrors in folklore, how this was made during the pandemic, and discuss the many facets of celebrity. Make sure you come back next week for another song discussing the nature of fame.Works Cited:The Philosophy of Reflection: Mirrors as Symbols Across CulturesCatoptromancyThrough the Looking Glass – Lewis Carroll – Aff LinkPerseus and MedusaA Discovery of Witches (2018)'Spirit mirror' used by 16th-century occultist John Dee came from the Aztec EmpireConceitAnaphoraInclusioOuroborosAlbertus Magnus and the Magic MirrorLoafing Him was Bread T-Shirt The House of Fame – Geoffrey ChaucerThe Temple of Fame – Alexander PopeThe Swiftie and The Scholar Grading MatrixFollow Us:Patreon⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠Threads⁠Angela’s Instagram⁠Uncle Jerry’s Instagram

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You're among fans. Welcome to the Swifty and the Scholar, the podcast where we examine the lyrics, lore, and literary legacy of Taylor Swift. I am Angela McDowell the Swifty. And I am Dr. Jerry Coates, the Scholar. Hi, Uncle Jerry. Hi, Angela.

Is that loud enough for all of you? I'm sorry, I was very quiet in one of the previous episodes and so I'm trying to be vocal. Angela has just returned from a trip Oh gosh, yes I've been gone for a long time I don't really remember How to do any of this

We recorded a lot of episodes for y'all So you wouldn't miss me That's right She like was loading them up on ships at sea Yes literally I had I was gone for two weeks I had one episode done before we left So I was like amazing

I had one episode like mostly edited Before we left I finished editing it on the Eurostar from France to London, from Paris to London. And then I was like, well, I'll just get on the boat. I still have like several days. It was like six days before it needed to be uploaded. So I was like, I'll just get on and I'll upload it.

It'll be fine. Sure. You didn't need to be relaxing or anything. Right, right, right, right. So then the uploads each one, like Patreon took like probably eight hours. And then the other two platforms took like, I don't know, six or seven hours. So I did it overnight, so it's fine. I wasn't, like, sitting on my computer, but it was a lot of work.

So thanks for being here. And I'm tired, and I hope this goes well today. Well, from my part, I think it will. And that's what we're all here for anyway. I've just been sitting around Texas. Yeah. And for, you know, the biggest news in my end of Texas, we opened a new Waterburger. Oh, my gosh, huge news.

You went to the opening of Waterburger. Leslie and I went to the opening of Waterburger and I got this. Did you like go stand in line? Yeah, we stand in line. We were customer number 0-000-000-00-12. Nice. I know.

They had all kinds of giveaways. They had like a record and a hat. I have a hat that says Waterburger, official hamburger of the Dallas Cowboys. And yeah. I like that we changed lives. Like I was at the Cheshire Cheese while you were at the Waterburger. And normally it's the opposite of that.

Okay, so for those of you who do not know, Waterburger is a Texas hamburger chain that was founded in Corpus Christi. An institution. It's an institution in Texas. And I, you know, I'm not really fond of their hamburgers that much, but I love their breakfast. I don't think you're allowed to say that. Oh, yeah, biscuits are God probably done. Biscuits and gravy.

Their breakfast is the best. A tequito? Yeah, tequito's great. Honey butter chicken biscuit? Are you kidding me? I know. Well, I'm glad you had a good time. We had a great time.

It was crazy. Like the mayor came out. The city council was there. This is how big Waterberger is in Texas. So you're probably sitting in like Australia or in Argentina. And you're thinking, what? It's a chain. Yeah, Texas is weird.

But like the whole town has been waiting for this Waterberger for months. They've been building it. And it's right down the middle of the main thoroughfare through town. and everybody goes, where's it going to be done? Because, you know, they keep looking and looking like me. Did you get something for being like the first 100? Or is that what all this stuff was? Yeah, I got all kinds of swag.

No free food, though. No, we didn't get coupons for stuff, a free breakfast to keto and a free burger with a purchase and stuff like that. Yeah, it was really, I mean, it was a goofy thing to do on a Wednesday morning. Yeah, that's fun, though. But, yeah, they opened at 11 a.m. and Leslie and I were in line at about 10.30. So we didn't sleep overnight or anything. Just not camping at the local.

I wasn't waiting for tickets to a Swift concert or anything. Luckily, we don't have to do that now. We just have to be in the computer waiting room. And I bet they're waiting to hear what song we're doing. But not yet. Not yet. Because other things happen while you were going, I got this, a tiny tarot card deck just for you.

so you can always have a deck of tarot cards with you. Okay, wait. More tarot cards, but these are taro. Oh, okay, taro. Taro. It's one for you. Oh, how fun for me. And I have a little mini one too.

Thank you. Oh, that's so cool. Thank you. Thank you for sending. I love this little mini deck. This is so fun. So I can put in my backpack. That's right.

You can carry it with you. Anytime you want to, you do a four card layout for the day. Yeah. So morning, early afternoon, late afternoon, evening and you flip them and you say, oh my. I don't have to clean today. The cards don't say it. All right.

Let's see more stuff. Oh my goodness. One of my good friends, John Shoemaker. Hey John. Hello, John. He went to the record, guys. I hope we get an endorsement for this. Oh, cute.

Yeah, and he got you. This. Oh, my gosh. I didn't get to go. Yes. Yes. It's the Taylor. Elizabeth Taylor

single. Yeah, this is the record store day exclusive. Oh my gosh, so many gifts. I know. So thank you,

John. John got me one. He got you one. How fun. Thank you. Yeah, that great. I was pretty bummed.

I was like, I really should like see if I can find one second hand or something, but I don't like to support the scalpers, you know? So thank you.

That's very exciting. Yeah, that's really fun. Well, John's a very thoughtful guy. He's a good friend of mine. We went to a baseball game while you were gone. Oh, fun. We are.

You've been really having an American time. Baseball and Waterbury, Texas. We went to see the Cleburne Railroaders. It's a minor league baseball team. I've never even heard of them. Yeah, so those of you who are football fans in England, it's like a, it's not even a tier two. It's like way down there.

Is it the same as the Cats? The Fort Worth Cats? Yeah, it's like the Fort Worth Cats, except the Cats are defunct. Oh, R-I-P. And since you meant and cheese, I didn't. didn't want to show this off. Yeah, you can't have this, but this is like my book of the cheese. Yes, the Cheshire cheese.

Yes, I did post on Instagram stories that I went to the Cheshire Cheese because we talked about it on this podcast before. So, yeah, look on your post because she's got a picture of the Cheshire Cheese. And it's, you know, it was from 1667. The book is actually published in 1901. But this is the fourth edition, which is like the one you want to have. So cool. Because the early editions are just like little pamphlets and stuff.

So this one collects all the information. Oh, and puts it all together. Yeah, about the Cheshire cheese. And it talks about Johnson and Dickens and it tells stories of the cheese. And it's just fun. So fun. Yeah. That's a cool little place.

It's great. It's just so historical. Yeah, you know, I went and sat down where Dickens sat, you know. Then I move over and sit down where Samuel Johnson sat. And I have pictures of me in both places. And I don't know what I do with them except look at them. and smile. I did take another picture for you.

I totally forgot to send it. There's, you know, there's different places in London that have like a blue plaque on them that say like somebody lived here. Like I saw one where Vivian Lee used to live or something. Right. Yeah. But then I saw one that was John Keats. Oh, really?

Yeah. And I took a picture of that, but then I totally forgot to send it. But I was like, oh, this very Swiftian scholar coded as well. You know, John Keats once wrote a poem about the nature of fame. Oh. Oh my gosh. I know somebody else who has done that. Really?

How's that for a segue? That was really good. Completely unintended. Yes, about fame. Today, we are going to be discussing Mirror Ball from folklore from 2020. This is one of my favorites. This song is very special to me. Oh, I better be careful.

Is that what you're telling me? No, no, no. It's okay. Okay. But Waterburger. Call us. I went this morning. Um, yeah, so Mirabal, this is written and produced by Taylor and Jack Antonov.

Oh, I could have known it. Um, I love this one. The folklore is just, there's not very many songs on folklore, but I'm like, I don't love that one. But this is one of my very first, like, from the first listen, I was like, that is, that's, that's a song. Yeah. And, um, yeah, I'm excited to talk about it. I actually wanted, I moved this kind of up the list because, um, um, So many of you have message and asked, and we will get to it, I promise.

I just have not been here. Taylor was recently recognized as one of the 30 greatest living American songwriters. And there was a long interview with The New York Times, and she talked about several songs in there, and one of those was Miraball. Oh, did she? And so I was like, yeah, we should talk about this one. Yeah. Because it's a fun one.

And she, I do believe she has said that this is one of her favorite songs that she's written. Okay. So she's right, is what I'm trying to say. And yeah, that's all I have. Okay, well, I'm not sure where to start. Okay. I should also say that I sent these to Uncle Jerry before I left, so he's had these for a while. Yeah, you know, and I think you should never give me three weeks with one of these again because, because.

There are a lot of notes on that page. Yeah, she sent a couple to me, and they have driven me insane. I'm sorry. Yeah. So I don't know if you can see, but yeah, can they see that? Yeah. I just kept writing and kept writing, and then I started typing. So I've got five pages of additional notes.

I probably should have just written a paper and just sat here and read it. Yeah, maybe so. Completely non-interactive podcast. It's just me reading. So we're going to buckle up for a long episode today, I guess. Maybe. I don't know. I'm going to try to speak fast.

And loud. And loud. So Mirabal, I mean, seriously, all I can say is, what's that thing that holds the water back? Damn. Yeah. This is a heck of a work. You know, I So let me talk about my methodology.

Okay. Okay. So, you know, obviously I read through it once. I've told you guys this before. I read through it one time, just like trying to get the feel, the tone, the mood of the piece. And then I read through it again, thinking, okay, what are the thematic elements? And then I take my pan out after I read it two or three times. I start marking it up.

You know, so there's a lot to talk about when you look at. at a good work of literature. You know, so you can talk about its, you know, symbolic relevance, its thematic elements. You can talk about the poetic elements. And sometimes they even forget to look at the poetry. You know, if like in a work like this, which is so strongly dominated by imagery and symbolic structure and thematic impetus, it's hard to remember to look at the poetic Galleries. I mean, it really is.

Because you're just like taken over kind of by the story and what you're seeing in your head rather than like focusing on the rhyme or something. Yeah, it's so weird. Like it was three days before I even went back and looked at the rhyme scheme. I mean, I'm serious, you know. And when I looked at it, I thought, okay, no mirror ball tonight, floor, beautiful. Hey, there's no rhyme here, right? There's literally no consistent rhyme scheme in this poem.

Interesting. Right? The poem is driven by the imagery. and by the voice of the mirror ball itself. Okay, so we've almost removed one poetic element from the picture in order to focus on other elements. Interesting. Yeah, I think it's kind of clever on part of the writer.

You know, it does have a rhythmic pattern, but the consistent rhythmic pattern doesn't show up until the chorus. Okay. So obviously I'm talking about rhyme and rhythm first. Okay. So hush, when no one is a rhythmic. my dear, you'll find me on my tallest tiptoes, spinning on my highest heels, love shining just for you. And it's that accented, unaccented, accented, accented, unaccented syllable thing, right?

Hush, when no one is around my dear, right? So you can kind of really stress it and hear it. You'll find me on my tallest tiptoes, kind of a hangover, an accent syllable, spinning on my highest heels. love shining just for you. I know they said the end is near. Okay, so it's bubump, bum, bum, bum, bum, bump, bump, bu. So you do have a rhythmic pattern in the chorus, but you really don't, in the verses,

I want you to know, I'm a mirror ball, right? So it's more, it's a little bit more conversational. Although in English conversation does tend to take the shape of unaccented and accented syllables, it tends to be iambic, English conversation. Our words are set up that way. But yeah, it's more conversational. So, I mean, you know, and it took me several days to actually come back and look at those elements.

Okay, so what did I look at when I was first reading? First of all, I look at the title. Yes. Mirror ball. And then, so the important question to ask about literary examination is why. You know, why does the author make this choice? So good authors, you don't have to ask why. I mean, you have to ask why because they're good authors and they have an intentionality built into their work.

Lousy authors, you don't have to ask why. It just happened that way. It just says just a choice. Baby, baby, I love you, from your head to your, no shoe. Yeah, you don't ask why about that kind of thing. So why a mirror ball? You know, what are the qualities of a mirror ball? why a mirror, why a ball.

So you begin to break down it into two words. And then you remember this comes from a particular album. Folklore. Folklore. So then I began thinking about mirrors in folklore. Uh-oh. Oh, no. I know.

Consequently, I've got all these notes written down the side. It's like, okay, what does a mirror symbolize? How are mirrors used in culture, symbolically in folklore, a mirror is a symbol of wisdom. A mirror is a symbol of self-knowledge. You look into it, you see a reflection, you think about things. It's a sense of self-reflection. Okay, but it's also associated with the folklore with narcissus.

You know, the character who is looking at his self in a pond and becomes so enamored of his own image that he gets stuck. You know, he's eventually turned into a flower, right? By, you know, by someone who lets him off the hook there. It's a symbol of vanity, you know. It's a symbol of deception because what you see reflected may not always reflect the inner self, right? So the outside versus the inside, the mask versus the real person. Interesting.

Okay, so is Taylor Swift working with all these ideas in this poem? Like, yeah, I think so. Yes, I think she's talking about the nature of vanity, the nature of self-deception, but the nature of self-knowledge. It can also be a symbol of truth and illusion. It reflects only exactly what it sees, but it's also an illusitary truth, an illusion that comes back at us. It can be illusion and deception, deceiving what's on the inner side. It can be a symbol of the unconscious or subconscious mind.

So here I'm looking at myself as I think I see me, but how do other people see me? How do I perceive myself sometimes when I'm walking around without the mirror? Or how do I wish for my own self-conception when I'm looking in the mirror? And now your heads are spinning like a mirror ball. Like a mirror ball. That's exactly right. So why do we choose a mirror ball? because the spinning itself reflects the spinning of the earth,

the spinning of the orb, the turning of our own vanity, the turning of our own self-consciousness, the spinning of the nature of fame. Okay. Which one of those does she intend? Yes. I hope the good author's answer is all of them.

Right. So am I saying the title is ambiguous? Yes. All right. Cross that off your... All Vivians. Yeah, we do have on Patreon for the... Those of you aren't there, we do have bingo cards now.

And I think ambiguity is one of the popular spots. Yeah, it comes, you know, I mean, thanks, Vivian. It comes up almost every time, right? Yeah, it does. I also thought about how a mirror ball creates false space. A mirror creates false space. Like when you hang it on a wall, it appears like the room is larger than it really is. like fame is bigger than you perceive it to be.

Isn't that great stuff? And we're not done with the title yet. Yeah, that's crazy because, sorry, I know you've still got more, but I think a part of the discussion when this first came out was like, why did she say, choose mirror ball over disco ball? I'm getting there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think because the mirror is a more important, more powerful symbol.

Yeah, that's the part. That's the important part is the mirror. Yeah, you hang a, mirror on the wall, again, it gives false depth just like the falsity of what fame really is and brings. Or how fame lasts or does not. Or how you maintain fame or cannot. Right? Isn't that great stuff?

My mind is blown. I might be too tired for this. You know, in old folk traditions, they cover a mirror. You know why? When someone dies? No. Yeah, because they think that the mirror is a window into other dimensions. Oh, okay.

And so the person who is past, their soul can come back in the mirror. And they miss you so much they can reach out through the mirror and drag you into the nether world of the afterlife. Okay, we haven't talked about. I always have trouble with this word. Catatramancy. Catatramancy. Cataptermancy.

Okay. C-A-T-A-P-T-R-O-M-A-N-C-Y. Okay. Mancy. I know that one. I don't know what the first half of that means. Cataptermancy or catatramancy is gazing into a mirror or gazing into a ball. Ah, here's a little one.

Ooh. Look, I'm going to gaze into my ball. Okay. Yeah, this is a really nice one. This is cool. Yeah, I don't know how much they can see that, but it's rutilated quartz. It's got little tiny mineral striations.

Yeah, that's pretty. Yeah, so, you know, telling the future by looking into a ball or into a mirror, you know, gazing into a mirror like the, there's a certain witch, I think, in a fairy tale. Like, who's the fairest of the mall? Who is the fairest of the mall? Yeah. In the Snow White story, you know, she gazes in and wants to know. And at some point in a future moment,

someone's going to take that role. So wait a minute, you mean at some point in a future moment, no matter how famous you are, someone is going to subsume your fame, and your fame will not last, but someone else's fame will lunge forward. It might be a little Easter egg there. I don't know.

I was just completely consumed by that. I just kept writing and writing. You know, there's a folk tradition that you don't let babies gaze into the meat. or they'll lose their souls. Oh, like it'll go through to the other dimension. Yeah, go through into that. Yeah, it is that idea that the mirror itself is a portal.

So it's, oh, let's see, Lewis Carroll. Uh-huh. The looking glass. The look through the looking glass, right? So you have Alice walking into another land through the looking gas. Perseus and Medusa. Perseus polishes his shield so he can find the Medusa. Oh, okay.

Or in some stories, she actually carries a bronze mirror in and gazes at her through the mirror. So the reflection cannot hurt us. So the reflection in the mirror is not the true us. Right. Which is kind of an interesting, is fame ever the true us. Is the reflection ever the true us? Yeah. The image that is, yeah, that's projected out there, right.

So, yeah. So it's so funny because stuff like cascading is, this is the problem. giving me three weeks. So, Leslie and I were watching the show Discovery of Witches. Okay. And in it, they go back to Elizabethan Times. They meet John D., who was Elizabeth astrologer, astronomer. And I thought, you know, I wrote, I have a biography of John D.

right up there. And I thought, wait a minute, John D. had an obsidian mirror. He took a piece of black volcanic glass and had it polished, polished, polished, and the rumor was he could see demons in the reflection of an obsidian mirror. So whatever you do with mirrors, don't get a piece of black volcanic glass. Yeah, I guess not. Let's see, Palsanias, the Roman author writes about them. You know, I don't know. It's just, it just completely consumed me this was such a fascinating image.

If you think about the physicality of what a mirror ball is, you know, does it have any real substance. Well, no, it's hollow inside. So it's just this vacant space inside. It almost reflects the vacant space that mirrors themselves create.

It also hangs. It pens, it turns pendulously on a single wire. You know, always almost ready to break and fall. I think that appears later in our poem. So did I like the title?

Yeah, it was filled with folkloric references. It was filled with terrific imagery. And then you read the poem. And there's so much imagery still to come. Yeah, it's pretty great. Oh, wait, I've got one more. I'm sorry, I wrote down the side. Down in the margins of both sides.

One more mirror reference. Okay, so this is, if you take a mirror bowl and turn it inside out, if you will, so that all the reflecting glasses on the inside and put yourself in the middle. Have you seen the Matrix series? Yeah. You remember in the second Matrix where at the end, Neo is faced with the choice?

The architect, you know, talks with Neo, and Neo has reflections of a thousand responses he wants to give the architect. And they all settle down to one, right? And the architect asked him another question. Neo has a thousand different responses that he thinks about. And if you think about this is how we, conduct conversation.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You know, like someone says something to you, and you think of the, it's almost instantaneously in your brain, you think of the 50 different things you want to say back, but only one comes out because, and the others are all cast away because the others are all false images of self. Isn't that great stuff? So, I mean, essentially, the matrix shows us a mirror ball in its inverted state.

Interesting. Yeah, that's kind of fun. Okay, that's all. Shall we get to the poem? I know. It's like, oh, when is Angela going to get back? I need to stop thinking about this. I had dreams about it.

So I need to get it out of my head. Okay. Can you tell I'm going to like this one? Oh, my goodness. I really didn't know what you would think about this one. I just really hoped that you would like it a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. I is the first word in our,

poem. Yes. So we have a first person address. Yes. And the question we should always ask is, who's the speaker? Well, I want you to know. So they're impelled to tell you, I am the mirror ball. Okay, so the mirror ball is speaking to us. But not really, because the author is Taylor Swift. And arranged by Jack Antinoff. I don't know. I wonder how much he participates. I think if you're in the room, you get a credit. Yeah. Yeah. And they're, you know, they're always, those two always are bouncing crazy ideas off each other.

Yeah, just like balls. So, yeah, the mirror ball is speaking to us. So right off we have a metaphor of a talking ball. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And that metaphor is going to be extended throughout the entire work. The I speaker, the first person,

narrator in this entire work is going to be the mirror ball. And so when you extend a metaphor throughout an entire work, it is called a conceit. That is correct. So we have a metaphor for a performer, but a performer who is glued together out of fractured bits. Okay, so this is a very introspective work. I came to see it on about the sixth day. No, I mean, it was pretty prevalent early on

That what she's doing is she is looking at herself As if she's looking in a mirror And she is thinking about her fractured self And how she spins and dances in front of audiences You know, and she's glued together out of fractured bits We all are glued together out of fractured bits I'll show you every version of yourself tonight So she is there

But I mean if you think about a concert She looks at people She interacts with audiences I mean you've shown me enough audience I've never attended You've attended one or two Yeah just just one or two Yeah

10 Ten So crazy But like we wouldn't be having this much fun here right now That's true We're all are you guys having fun I don't know But I am

Okay, I hope you are. Okay, so yeah, she reflects the nature of the audience, right? She interacts with them, their joy, their tears. You know, again, I've seen those audience. Always crying. People are always crying. People are singing, so they're clearly interacting with her. It is a mirrored situation.

For sure, yeah. So I show you every version of yourself tonight. I'll get you out on the floor. shimmering, beautiful, and when I break, it's at a million pieces. Okay, so the floor, the dance floor, another metaphor. It's a resonant metaphor with its being a dance with a mirror ball, and so you have this extended, a metaphorical situation, the conceit. You notice the use of the eye that resonates throughout the entire verse,

so she's using anaphora. Anaphora. That's right. It's anaphral all over again. So, you know, I mean, we've got this great setup where we see the conceit where she's a mirror ball. And, you know, then you have to ask, okay, where is this going? You get the chorus. Yes.

Hush. When no one is around, my dear, you'll find me on my tallest tiptoes spinning in my highest heels. Love shining just for you. Okay. So there's very little punctuation here. It seems like one long sort of run-on sentence with ideas. It's rhythmical, but no rhyme scheme to break that up at all. And we do have a moment, again, of indecision, of ambiguity in the third line.

When you read it, spinning in my highest heels, comma, love. Now, is she addressing us as her love? Right. Or? Yeah, is this a noun of direct address? If it's a noun of direct address, there should be a comma after love, but there is no end-stop punctuation throughout the entire chorus. So is it omitted in order to be resonant with the rest of the chorus?

Or are you supposed to read it like this? Spinning in my highest heels, love shining just for you. I love shining just for you. So she ellipses, she omits the first person I. Which there's a lot of in the first verse. Right. So is she, is this a noun of direct address or is this an ellipsed I love dancing for you? I love shining for you.

Interesting. I think it's both. And intentional multality of meaning or whatever you said last time. I was trying to avoid the word ambiguity. So, yeah, I mean, it's intentional ambiguity. It's intentional. She creates a proliferation of meaning. I don't know.

How many ways can we be ambiguous about ambiguity? Exactly. So when no one is around she's doing this, you know, where do you write your songs? Where do you practice your dance steps? Where do you rehearse? You know, when no one's around, right? So we think about all the stuff she has to do in order to entertain us, in order to spin before our eyes and reflect us at a concert.

So, you know, I like to make predictions on what the song will sound like. It feels like this song with the word hush, repeated. And it feels like with the mystic elements, this is going to be like a quiet, mystical piece. You know, I almost feel like it's not one of those pianos. It feels like some kind of like organ or synthesizer, you know, kind of thing. What are you shaking your head about? I just, I just, this is just incredible. Well, no, I mean, it's just, okay, so it is what we call tone and mood, right?

Yeah. So she's not a mirror. She's not gaily spinning, reflecting the joy. She doesn't use those words. If you go back and consider the diction, I'll show you every version of yourself, you know, the good, the bad, the happy, the sad. You know, she is shimmering and beautiful, but she will break. Yeah. Right.

So you look at the word choices. You're shimmering and beautiful because you've broken into a million pieces. Right. And that's the reason that mirror balls are so pretty. Right. And the idea is it almost seems as though she's going to break by falling, you know, at some point. predicting at some point in her life in her career in our lives a fall

and we see that later on so yeah I would say that we're going to hear a hushed tone throughout the work probably the it feels to me like the chorus would pick up a bit because of the rhythmic elements yes I do like the hush I think that's really fun I don't know why like it's just like everybody shut up I'm here well and just

just settle down just let's be chill yeah she's she's working when no one is around, my dear, you'll find me on my tallest tiptoes. She's still working hard, still performing. And you know the image that I thought of was a ballerina in a music box. Oh, yeah, just spinning on your toes. Yeah, and what's always behind the ballerina in the music box? A mirror.

There's always a mirror there. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, when you open it up, it's like instant music, instant performance. And all you have to do is wind it up. Interesting. That's fun. Yeah, I almost wish that she had pushed that metaphor towards the ballerina and a music box. Oh, I should say that if you Google disco ball or mirror ball in poetry,

you'll see a dozen poems using this metaphor. Okay. You know, so it's not original necessarily. I just think it's very, it's deftly handled here. Agreed, yeah. Right. And I think a lot of the. that is bound up in these images.

I love the idea that she's on her tallest tiptoes. Again, it's balanced precarious, you know, with the danger of falling. But we've already said she might break at the end of the first first. She's in her highest heels. She is stretching out. She is dizzily spinning. So again, precariousness. I feel like that tallest tiptoes and spinning in my highest heels.

goes along with, is it in the, the bridge? Yeah, where all I do is try, try, try. Right. Like that is just showing

like all of this is a huge effort. Like none of this is effortless. Like I am going out and I'm trying so hard at all times, which Taylor has talked about before. She's like, people love to pretend like your, like, she says like effortless is a myth. Effortlessness is a myth.

Yeah. Because nobody's, everybody's trying. Right. You know, and it's like, but everybody wants to appear as though it is effortless. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, you can push that analogy to any, any performance, any sport, any, you know, when I hear Yo-Yo Ma play the cello, that's not the first time he sat down with a cello. Right, right, yeah. Yeah, I mean, any time, you know, someone plays, sings, performs, I mean, I do watch soccer players on a pitch, and it is the beautiful game.

And sometimes you'll see a back kick goal and you say, wow, that was lucky. No, it wasn't lucky. No, yeah. That guy has practiced that since he was four years old. Yeah, it's like 98% effort and 2% luck. Right. Yeah. Yeah, it really is.

It's stunning to watch great performers, great players. And I think that's what she's saying when she says when no one is around, you know. And not only does she give us this sort of spooky aura of the disco ball hanging alone in an empty dance floor, which is this terrific reverse image, like the inside of a mirror, reverse image of the mirror ball at work when she is showing every version of ourselves. So, you know, even when she's hanging there when no one's around, she's practicing, working, you know, preparing. Yeah, she's in the background.

And then also, or she's like at home, like out of the lights, you know. But also that from the first verse, I'll show you every version of yourself tonight. Like, obviously she's talking about the reflection. Like, the metaphor is the reflections of all the things. But that always also takes me back to just, like, all of her music. Like, she knows what she's done for us is that she's, like, put her feelings and she's been so, like, vulnerable enough to put all of her, like, hardest feelings into songs. And that helps us then to...

you know, figure out our own feelings, you know, that helps us put words to our feelings. The ambiguity is crazy in this one. Like, I feel like it's a thousand of her meanings for every line. Well, like a thousand broken pieces of mirror on a bowl. Exactly. Yeah, I love hearing you say something like all of her music because I don't know all of her music. I now know like 42 songs, but then that's, you know, that's not nothing. I'm working towards 18% or so.

Yeah. Yeah. And you gave me, you sent me a couple of really good ones. I mean, this one and the one we're going to do next are both really, really interesting. I thought you would like the next one. I wasn't sure how you would feel about this. But I'm glad I gave you so much time. Very much.

Yeah, and two, both with that same thematic element of the nature of fame. Yeah, I have to say that I'm, people have constantly speculated, oh, he's a Swifty now, he's a Swifty now. He's a sweet, you know, now. Today, today. I think I am pushing with these two. I don't know. I read this and I just went, wow, that's, it's really fun the way she puts us together. And yeah, I have read other mirror ball, disco ball poems.

And this is right up there. This is really, really good. So she says, hush, I know they said the end is near, but I'm still on my tallest tiptoe. spinning on my highest heels, love shining just for you. And I thought, what does she mean by the end is near? And then I looked at the day 2020. And I remembered what you had told me that she was working, working, working during COVID. So this is one of her COVID pieces.

It is. Yeah. Yeah. So I kind of, I began to intuit that, you know. Yeah. I do feel like that is, I feel, I feel two things about that line. the end is near in that yeah COVID has happened

she's writing this like in lockdown after her she was supposed to have Lover Fest so Lover came out in 2019 she was doing something totally different she was just going to have like play these like festival type shows and those all got cancelled so she's just like at home

like what's even going to become of my career you know if I can't be out there with shining for these people yeah it's just going to be an eclipse They love when you do that. What? And also, in that same time period, Taylor put out a documentary called Miss Americana, and in it she was talking about how she was like almost 30,

and pop stars really have like a really short shelf life. Wow. And, you know, once you're over 30, you're kind of discarded for something new. Someone knew. And so she was kind of like, I think this time right now is like my last chance for success, which turned out to be absolutely untrue. Like obviously she's never been bigger now at 36 years old. It's Travis that's going to be the end of her career.

Marriage, happiness, all of that will bring her down. Yeah, totally. But yeah, so I think there's, again, every line in this, I think it just has like a thousand meanings. Yeah. Like a mirror ball. Okay, before we leave the chorus, I do have to say, tallest tiptoes, is it enjoyable for a ballerina to dance on point? I have to assume, no, their feet are all messed up. Right, they are all messed up.

It is painful to do that. Now, you know, having been in the musical hairspraying. Yes. Someday we'll put up that picture. Showgirl Uncle Jerry. Because I was Edna in hairspray. I had to wear high heels when I make the transformation in the beauty shop. And I had to practice.

Actually, the director of the play, I'm very serious, made me walk around my office and my heels during the afternoon. So you got this Dean's office and I'm walking around. Also, if you don't know, because why would you? Uncle Jerry's like, I don't know, 6.3? Yeah. 6.3, is that right? That's right. So there's just a giant man walking around an office in high heels.

Three-inch heels. Oh, my gosh. So, yeah, I can attest to the fact that walking at high heels is painful. And so I think that she wants us to think about that too. You know, dancing on point, wearing high heels. Those things, while they're glamorous and beautiful, they can hurt. Yeah, and, like, do actual damage to your feet. Right.

And so all that preparation that, as you, I think, correctly point out, you know, is not something happenstantial, you know, is also something that you have to be dedicated to and can be painful. So I think that's maybe all. And let's not forget the dizzy imagery with the repetition of the line spinning, spinning. Right. So it can be dizzying as well. I think another reason why she chooses the primary metaphor, focusing metaphor, is mirabal. Right. First two.

Yes. I want you to know. Again, she's impelled. You know, this reminds me of that song, the Dear Reader song, where she is giving us, you know, that. Yeah, the advice. Right. So I want you to know, I'm a mirror ball. I can change everything about me to fit in.

I love this line, you know, she's, so all the different refractive. of light. But when you change yourself, when you adapt to being people-pleasing, are you losing your truthfulness? Are you pushing the envelope of not being honest? And if you are honest and people don't like it, then do you return to the previous mode? I wonder when she made the transition. I wonder how she felt when she made the transition from being a country Western singer

to being a pop singer and she was like on tiptoe wondering is this going to work? Right. Yeah. And when it did, did she think about

I don't know enough of her music but does she go back to those country roots? I mean, not really. I mean, there's definitely some. Like I feel like, you know, on Evermore we have like Cowboy like me as a little country.

Yeah, that's right. Cowboy like me. I think there's a few. I mean, I feel like her songwriting to this day like is still very, based in country music, the way that she tells stories and stuff,

and I think she says the same. But yeah, I think it's less of like, I'm turning my back on that and more of I'm evolving and taking that with me and involving it into something else, you know? But, I mean, she's had to reinvent herself for every album.

Every album is like a new, a new vibe, a new look, a new, you know, it's all, her, everything changes. And so she, you know, that's what I, you know, again, I don't know enough of her music, not enough of her music. I mean, I've read sub or poetry, but, but I really can't tell you a lot about her music. I can say I like the song Opelite, right? It is just joyous fun.

Yeah. And I love the video that ends in a goofy dance, you know, and so to me, that is a, an adaptation of herself. Right, right. But she's adapting to her own life in that respect. She's not adapting to our needs. You know, I think that she is responding to her own joy. I think so now.

I think earlier in her career, I think it was less about, I mean, I think moving to pop music was definitely something she wanted to do and something that she felt like she needed to go do. But, like, I think that, I think a lot of what she does is kind of a reaction. to the public's reaction to the last thing that she did earlier on. And I do appreciate you not calling me out for biographical criticism. I like it. I'll stick. I'll stick a, you know, a toe in there occasionally.

But she says, you are not like the regulars. So she invites us to be different, right? she invites us to be special. So the you, you know, now she answers a second question, you know, from verse one. You know, the first question is, who is the I speaking? It's the Maribald. It's her. The second question is who's the you, and I want you to know.

The you is us, loyal listeners, appreciative listeners, people who are special to her and who hold her in a special place. we are not like the masquerade revelers, the observers, the critics. You know, why a masquerade? Because you wear masks, you know. I mean, you hold up this face and you're not being your true self. You're not being authentic. You're just reaching out in criticism. Are you genuine?

No. You know, why are you being critic? Are you jealous? Are you uncaring? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. All of the above.

All of the above. It also, well, it reminded me a little bit of Peter. Was that the man, the men. As the men masqueraded. I hoped you'd return. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

I suppose we ought to do a word search and see if she used masquerade elsewhere in works. But yeah, when I saw the word masquerade, I thought of Peter, and I thought about the disingenuousness of wearing a mask. Interesting. Yeah, so she separates us from them. Drunk as they are, watch my shattered edges glisten. So why are they watching? You know, what are they waiting for? Yeah, they want to see how she's breaking. Yeah, they want to see. Yeah, they want to see. Right. Yeah. So, oh, she's got another breakup. I told you she was that person. Oh, she's not the good girl anymore. I told you she. I told you. she was that person. She's hanging out with a guy 10 years older than she is. I told you she was

that person. Am I back into biographical criticism? Bet I am, people. Leave me alone. This one is like so introspective, though. It's like kind of hard to take Taylor out of it, you know? It really is hard. And, you know, I said I try to avoid biographical criticism. I was my first choice, but you left this with me for three weeks. This is just where you end up if you have to talk. It's where I am. Well, because you've, you've, given me enough of the tailor lore that yeah, I had to speculate, you know, I wonder is she

talking about all those people who are drunk on, you know, here drunk metaphorically, who just delight in seeing someone who has celebrity screw up or fall down. And you know, if you think

about it, that happens everywhere with all types of celebrity. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I mean, time catches up with all of us, you know? We come within times bending sickles compass. That's

Shakespeare. Anything I say that's particularly beautiful. It's always Shakespeare. Probably a quote. Within times bending, sickles compass come. It's a beautiful line. It is pretty. Yeah, I think you can

feel that even, I feel like, you know, we talk about, especially lately, we've been talking about small towns a lot, like with, but daddy, I love him. and um uh tis the damn season but like even if you aren't a celebrity even if you're just somebody in your community who is you know the the big fish in the small pond i feel like a lot of times people still just like hate that person you know and like want to see them fail and like i feel like you can take this down to like any scale of your own life yeah absolutely yeah people even people

at your work you know um yeah i can i can tell you you know when you make full professor or when you when you become a dean or you know people who are formerly your friends you'll come around a corner and they're talking about you in the coffee diner yeah exactly yeah you get a promotion and suddenly the people that were your peers or maybe now your your reports right and then yeah yeah it just changes everything and I do think that that's why people like Taylor Swift is she hits on those things that reflect us right It is, she shows us every version of ourselves. Every version of ourselves.

Right. And this is that sad and bad side of the mirror. The reflection that says there are always going to be detractors who are drunk on our mistakes. Yeah. The chorus. Yes. Hush when no one is around, my dear, you'll find me on my tallest tiptoes spinning in my highest heels. Love, shining.

just for you. Or love shining just for you. It's ambiguous. Hush, I know they said the end is near, but I'm still on my tallest tiptoes spinning in my highest heels, love shining just for you. So it's a repetition of the previous chorus. Yeah, it's exactly the same. And then we get to the bridge. And, you know, it is with the bridge that I was absolutely assured that this is a COVID piece. Yes, yes. Right. Yeah, that's where it really comes in. Yeah. I mean, I think, so. And they called off the circus. It was not something that she wanted to do.

It's not something we did. They did. The COVID, you know, police, the people who knew that we were better off not gathering when we used crowds. The circus is a metaphor for the performance. And they burned the disco down. It's fun that we finally get a little disco in there, though. And we have some.

alliteration, just go down, right? And down rhymes with clowns. So as she actually is going, pushing a little rhyme. When they sent home the horses and the rodeo clowns, I kind of imagine the inverse of that song where they send in the clowns. So, yeah, here we're sending home the horses and the rodeo clowns. And I wondered how much of that is a wink at her company. Absolutely could be.

And I know that she's not calling them clowns in a pejorative sense. She's calling them, you know, she says, oh, we're all just crazy performers anyway. We put on our makeup, we put on our costumes, and we all jump out of a tiny car. Yeah. I'm still on the tightrope, and here her diction becomes really interesting. Because you remember the disco ball, the mirror ball is pendulously spinning on a single wire, and now she's on the tight rope. still in the public eye,

even though we're out on COVID, people are still writing about her in tabloids, people are still blogging about her, you know, probably if we'd been doing this during COVID, we'd still be sitting here talking about her early work, right? Yeah. I'm still trying everything to get you laughing at me.

So she's still working. She has those, don't tell me, don't tell me, long pond sessions? No. That's right. Is that right? Yes. Sorry, that was a shake of disbelief.

I thought you were shaking your head because I got it wrong. That was right. I think last time I said Long Water, which is actually the place in London. Yeah, so long pawn session. She's still working. As a matter of fact, when she's writing this, it's evidence that she's still working, right? She's still on that high wire. She's still trying everything she can do to get her attention.

and I'm still a believer, but I don't know why I've never been a natural. All I do is try, try, try. And as you point out, none of this is accidental. None of this is easy. It's all a matter. None of this is natural. You know, no one was born with this song on their lips. No.

And clearly you have to be a good writer to evolve this type of work. I'm still trying everything to keep you looking at me. So even though the disco is shut down, you know, the irony is I'm assuming all the lights would be off. And without light, does the mirror ball reflect? No. No. But she says she is. She's still there.

She's still there. Performing. In this quiet, dark place, not refracting any light, not reflecting anything. Still working, still hanging there, just waiting for us to return. You know, so you look at both imagery and addiction. We've got a mirror ball hanging. We've got a tight rope she's hanging. And she says, I'm still on that trapeze.

So she's hanging on this trapeze. They're all hanging. They're all... Like in precariously hanging. That's right. They're all threatened. Right. And so her career is threatened.

Her existence in the world of celebrity is threatened. And I think that she has made. making, she's pushing us toward a bigger thematic rendering of what is the nature of fame. What is the nature of celebrity? Yeah. And like what does it mean when the light isn't reflecting on you? Right. There is no spotlight on her now.

And so what becomes of her when celebrity disappears? And it's very introspective to me. Yeah. It's, you know. Who am I without all of these people and art and all the things? Which is also a line from chorus line. Oh. Oh, yeah, it's a song.

Who am I anyway? But it's true. I think it's very self-reflective, reflective. Just like a mirrorball. Just like a mirrorball. And then, you know, please let's not forget the anaphra in the bridge. Oh, yeah. And we go to the outro.

notice that it's a cyclical because she begins with, I want you to know I'm a mirror ball, and I'll show you every version of yourself tonight, and she ends with because I'm a mirable. Instead of I want to know, it's because I'm a mirror ball. She knows that's what she is. She knows she is a spinning dancer on a high wire trying to dance on her toes in high heels.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is also a literary device. You know, I've mentioned in Clusio before, which is often more associated with religious material, but beginning and ending is cyclical. It's also called Uroboros. Okay. So. Wait, I know that word. Do you know Oroboros?

Is that something with snakes? Yes, and Oroboros is a snake or a dragon eating its own tail. Okay, yeah. So it's the beginning and ending is the same. So the idea is it grabs a. of its own tale and it forms this perfect circle, a circle being a symbol of eternity. And so if you think about the focusing metaphor of the poem, it is a mirror ball, which is this the continuously evolved circle, right? So she uses oraboro, she uses the Inclusio, not only because

it's probably fun in the song, but also because it paints a word, picture of a mirror ball. Yeah, that's... Is that also like, if it's cyclical and she's wondering what's going to happen to her and her fame, it's like, well, actually, I'm always, it's always just going to be there. Right. I'm immortal now, baby dolls, you might say. You know, and also proper used to say as the world turns.

Uh-huh. Yeah, and so that spinning around also means that your life can turn around, right? So this fame can just be spun off to nothingness. Okay, now I have to review all my notes and see if I hit on everything I wanted to say. Yeah, I wrote, I probably wrote things that are better. I wrote glamour versus exhaustion, which is pretty fun. Oh, yeah. When she's up on her toes.

Yeah. Beauty versus instability. So she tries to be beautiful, but you're always unstable on your toes in those high heels. Adoration versus self-erasure. Do you want to be admired and what's the cost? Yeah, like how much do you lose yourself in that? How much is the authentic me, how much is the authentic Taylor Swift in anything I do if what I'm doing is chasing celebrity? Interesting.

Yeah, so I don't know. I just kept writing and writing and making little notes. Maybe I'm about done. I could talk about the things I will summarize. I wrote a little summary of what the mirror ball symbolizes is, you know, I gave a whole bunch of things that the mirror ball could be, vanity, truth, illusion, illusion, deception, soul, more talented, and I didn't even talk about all the folkloric representations.

You know, Albertic Magnus, a 13th century, 12th century, writer actually wrote a work in which he talks about a magic mirror, gave a formula for creating a magic mirror. St. Patrick is supposed to have used a mirror to expel demons. I don't know, all kinds of stuff. So many mirrors. I know, so many. But the mirror ball, fame. emotional adaptability, fragility,

disassociation, survival through reflection. Oh. And then that's interesting. So one of the things I made a little note about what makes the song to me extraordinary is its ambiguity. You know, how many times can you mark that on your card?

Is the mirror ball magical? you know, if all, so many of the associations of mirrors are magical, Albertus Magnus creating the magic mirror, you know, Lewis Carroll creating a mirror through which Alice, you know, walks into another world. Is it, is it the artificial artifice that opens up a world of magic to us when we go to a concert? I mean, why do you go? Why do you pay hundreds of dollars for a ticket? more than those parking. Yeah. Yeah. Parking is as much as a t-shirts.

I do. This is a Taylor pun. Loafing him was bread. Is it right? Yeah. For her sourdough era. Loving him was red is a Taylor lyric. So you're loafing him with bread.

So? Yeah. You know, it's like, it is absolutely, you're there because you're going to hear these, her words. Her hurt, her breaking into a million pieces. Right. helps you to feel... It is cathartic.

Yes, it reflects back to you and you have that catharsis and that emotional experience with her and with tens of thousands of other people. Yeah, it's the reason why we go to a Shakespearean comedy to laugh, but we go to a Shakespearean tragedy to remember the tragedy in our own lives and to feel that cathartic release when we see poor Romeo and Juliet lying dead. Right. Or alive as Taylor would probably have it. They survived.

So, yeah, is it, is the ball supposed to be magical? Is it supposed to be beautiful? It is beautiful in spinning. But it's also hollow. So is it supposed to be hollow? Is fame beautiful? Does fame spin? So is it fleeting?

Is it hollow? So is it empty? Is it heroic? The fact that she is on the high wire, on a trapeze, daring fate. you know, daring to fall. Is it heroic? Interesting. You know, I think is it not all of those things?

Yeah. So I've got so many notes. It's silly. Is it fragility? You know, is it the ability to reveal yourself and to show some side of yourselves that are not always so pretty? You know, is it not that? Is it a form of glass temple?

Is it self-awareness? Interesting. Yeah. I think in a lot of ways this is also a poem about self-awareness. Yeah, understanding who she is in her place in society. Yeah. And the tone is so, back to tone, wistful, melancholic. Yeah.

And I thought about all those works that I have read, you know, all those great works about the nature of fame, about its fleetingness, you know, Chaucer's, the House of Fame. I wrote down Alexander Popes, the Temple of Fame. Like I said, there are all kinds of poems about Mirables, but also all kinds of poems about fame. John Keats wrote a poem about fame. John Clare, Emily Dickinson, wrote a half a dozen poems about fame. Maybe I'll read a couple next time. Okay. But that may be all I'm going to say about Mirabal and probably not all that can be said.

Okay, yeah. I just kept writing and writing about it. I find it a fascinating poem. Fascinating work of art. Agreed. So you've already kind of hinted that I was right about the melancholic sound of the work. Honestly, and I don't know why this never occurred to me before, but when you just now said

the tone is wistful and melancholic, that's kind of like my baseline, I think. And I'm wondering now that all of the songs that I like love so much first listen is because they are a little like melancholy. Oh, well, you know, they are cathartic. Yeah. Okay, so we are going to watch the lyric video

and then we will also watch her and Jack talk about this and then play it with Aaron on Long Pond, your favorite movie. Yeah. I really, okay, so someday when we're all done with, I want to watch that whole thing. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, as soon as we finish folklore, we'll enter watch it. Okay, because I keep, because when I do watch it, I feel, sometimes I feel confirmed, and sometimes I learn a lot. So it's kind of fun. Yeah. Okay, we're going to go watch that and join us on Patreon if you want to watch us, watch it. And if not, we will be right back. Tell us your thoughts.

Well, okay, so let me go back to one of the things we started with, and that is the poetic elements. Yes. You know, I mentioned that the verses are conversational, but the choruses are rhythmical. You know, they have that unaccented, accented, accented rhythmical pattern. And she sings it that way. And it made it even more present to me that the verses are conversation, you know, the mirror ball is talking with us. And that the choruses are, you know, speaking to a more generalized audience.

Interesting. Yeah. That there's a little bit of separation between there. So I thought it was interesting the way she interpreted. Yeah, just like the melodies are completely different in the sections. The other thing from the long, from the, I can't remember, from the pond versions. Long pond, okay. She mentions something that I wrote down.

I wrote down, you know, the song asks, what happens to your identity depends on being watched. what happens when your identity depends on being watched? And she asked that same question, you know, who am I if I don't have an audience? You know, how am I when I'm sitting alone beside the Long Pond, you know, and I'm just talking with old Jack, you know, as opposed to on a stage when 25,000 people are listening, what remains when the performance ends, you know? And she has to be looking at that because essentially the performance came to an abrupt, unintentional stop with COVID.

But she's got to know someday she will not be able to get up on stage and sing. She's not Paul McCartney. Her and Paul McCartney are friends, though. Paul McCartney is a Swifty. Is he? Yeah, he's been at shows, passing out trading fringe of bracelets. The only reason why I bring him up is, um, uh, uh, Rolling Stone just reviewed Paul McCartney's new album, and they say it's a masterpiece.

He is just... I know, he doesn't stop. Still going. Yeah, but you know what I'm talking about? Some singers, their voice goes, their performance element goes. You know, so much of her is her body image, and so she's got to wonder what happens when the performance ends. And can someone who reflects everyone still know themselves?

So she says, I will reflect all of you, really? then who are you? You know, how, when, when you turn that mirror inward and say, who am I? Just tailor. Yeah. Are you just everyone's opinions of you? Right.

Or are you still a person under there? Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know if I have any other concluding remarks other than to say it's an intensely introspective and interesting work. Yeah. Agreed.

Okay. You ready to grade it? Yeah, you know, I think ever since our experience with another song where I just gave up on grading, you know, if it has an emotional impact on you, I just, I can't rate it. Yeah. But, yeah, we can do it as an exercise. Okay. Okay, Mirabal from folklore. Yes.

Lyrical strength. 99. Okay. Okay. Narrative and structure. 100. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, I just think it is a, like I said, there are a lot of poems about mirror balls and disco balls. I think that having the mirror ball talk with us and reflect different times and sides of itself was a really a unique way of approaching a poetic idea.

All right. Production and atmosphere. You know, I mean, the song was okay. I like the Long Pond version much better because the other one was more atmospheric and spooky. Yeah. So 92. That doesn't offend you.

No, it does not. Okay. I like the song because of the words. Lore and literary references. Yeah. You know, I came up with a lot of literary references. So a lot of that is generated from me, but it was predicated on my having read this poem.

So I'm going to say, although there are no explicit references, I think that she gives us the openness to reflect on many other references. Yeah, and the folklore of it all. The folklore, yes. Just the fact that it's in folklore, I think she wants us to think about the folklore of mirrors and mirror balls and things like that. And maybe even in the folklore of your own life, it did make me think of high school dances, you know, or other dances I've been a part of. So, yeah, all of that worked really well for me, 97. Okay. And emotional impact.

You know, it did start me thinking about the nature of celebrity and the democratization of celebrity. But maybe we'll talk about that next time. So maybe 95. Okay. Yeah. That's in 97, 96.6.6. And probably if I were, if you take out. the performance. I mean, the song is okay for me. I'm sure it's someone's favorite song.

You said you love the song. But as a poem, I think, this is one of my favorites, right? So I think if you were to take out that performance number and do just the others, it'd probably be like a 99. I think it's really strong. Okay, that's fair. Okay. Anything else? Well, I hope that what I've said today causes you to reflect on the nature of the same. poem. That's all. Okay. On that note, thank you for being here. Thank you for continuing all the support and everything. It's been very fun. We hit 32,000 Instagram followers the other day. Wow. Crazy. So thank you all for being here. And make sure you're following or wherever you listen. Oh, also, we're having a lot of issues with Apple Podcasts and by we, I mean me. I'm in a fight with them.

The IV episode doesn't work there. I apologize. It's available everywhere else. But anyway, wherever you're watching or listening, please rate and review us. Subscribe. Make sure subscribe so you get all the new episodes directly to your phone. You can also follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Swiftie and ScholarPod. You can follow Uncle Jerry at Dr. Uncle Jerry on Instagram.

You can follow me at Angela Wyatt McDow on Instagram. And we will be back next week. Bye, bye. Bye!