The Swiftie and The Scholar - The Peak of Innocence in Seven

Episode Date: July 23, 2026

This week is the one year podcast anniversary, and Angela saved this song especially for this episode. But before we tackle seven from folklore, Angela and Uncle Jerry reflect on the past year and Angela surprises him with a little quiz to see just how much he’s learned about Taylor Swift and swiftie culture.Thanks for being here with us!*Links with an asterisk are affiliate links, which allow us to make a small commission on your purchase at no cost to you. Thanks so much for your support!Works Cited:7 as the number of completionApostropheImperativesPastoral PoetryDramatic IronyAssonanceTo His Coy Mistress – Andrew MarvellAmerican Primitive – Mary Oliver*The Swiftie and The Scholar Grading MatrixFollow Us:Patreon⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠Threads⁠Angela’s Instagram⁠Uncle Jerry’s Instagram

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reminding us to make every martini cocktail count. So, go on and make every moment count, because there's no better time than now. Grigus, make time wait. Sip responsibly. To The Swifty and the Scholar, the podcast where we examine the lyrics, lore, and literary legacy of Taylor Swift. I am Angela McDow the Swifty. And I am Dr. Jerry Coates, the scholar.

Hi, Uncle Jerry. Hey, Angela. How you doing? I am celebrating the fact that we've been doing this for. How long now? One whole year. What? Nah, it can't be that long.

Isn't it crazy? It is crazy. Thanks for sticking with me for you. I remember when you pitched the idea. It was a funny moment. I was terrified. You were irrepressibly cute. I was nervous.

She literally was going, look at this. And you just had her PowerPoint up saying, and look at this. What would you say about that? Funny. But here we are. A year later. You baited me in with romantic poets. I did.

I knew what I was doing. I knew my audience. Yeah, unfair hook. I did pull some numbers for our one-year inverse. Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. So, so far, not counting this episode today, we've covered 48 songs. Taylor's current GPA at Dr. Uncle Jerry University is a 95. That's really good. I mean, I would expect it would be fairly high.

Yeah. Well, first of all, because, you know, I don't want to offend our audience. No. But, no, seriously, I don't like grade inflation. but she's like is she not like one of the world's most successful recording artists. Yeah. And so I would imagine her songs would be fairly well, not just received, but conceived. Yeah, agreed. Six songs have earned a 99 or 100. Oh, really?

Well, actually seven, but one of those was I knew it, I knew you, and Gillian gave that grade, so I didn't count it. That's true. Oh. She had a guest. This is a guest grader that day. That's right. But that is Marjorie, which took about 100. Marjorie's good.

Peter, which has a 99.8. You know, that image of them flying in different directions comes back to me from time to time. Me too. And I have to admit, I'm just going to admit that as an older gentleman, I see that I'm farther and farther away from Peter's tailwind all the time. I know. It's true. It's true.

But, yeah, it's just such a beautiful image. It is. That whole song. Yeah, the recession of childhood from our lives. Yeah. And how we still try to touch it. We took the grandkids out for an evening at main event. Fun.

Great. And, you know, just watching them play games. You know, it keeps you in touch with your childhood. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Okay, then we have State of Grace, which we just did, 99.2. All 2-0 10-minute version got flat 99. Yeah.

And Cardigan and Clara Bow also got 99s. Oh, really? This is a good selection of songs. Yeah, those are good songs. Yeah. Total views across all the platforms. So this is views, streams, downloads, all of that, is a Taylor blessed, there's a 13 in there, 1.3 million views.

Wow. Wow. Over a million views. Over a million views in a year. And 32,000 subscribers across platforms. And then 1300, another 1328 Patreon subscribers. Thank you, Patreon subscribers. Yeah.

Exciting, right? Yeah. You guys are the best. It is, you know, I don't always comment, but you're the comments that I read consistently. Yeah, we're in there. Yeah, yeah. And I really take a lot of your comments to heart. Some of the criticism.

And, but certainly, you know what gets me the most are the stories of their lives. Thank you, me too. Yeah. You know, or the story of your lives, you know, the people who say, you know, Yes, this was a good song, but this song helped me through. Yeah. Yeah, the reason I love this song is because of this moment or whatever. Yeah.

Yeah, the relativity to our lives is really, really fun. Yeah. It's fun to see it touches us like that. Okay, and I have a surprise for you. Oh, okay. I don't think you're going to like it. Okay. I prepared a quiz to see how much you've learned about Taylor.

Oh, no. Oh, no. In the past year. Now you've got me kind of scared. I have tested this on my mom and on Chase. Neither of them got a perfect score. Okay, that's a relief. My mom has been on this journey with me from the beginning,

and she still didn't get a perfect score. So it might be too hard. Chase did pretty well. Chase got like, there's 13 questions. Okay. Chase got like 10 or 11 of them, correct? I think my mom got like eight or nine. Okay, you ready?

I'm ready. Okay. How many questions? 13 questions. 13 questions. Okay. Okay. What is Taylor's favorite number?

We're going to cut this from, if I don't do well. It's 13. Yes. Okay. Okay. Who are Taylor's two most frequent collaborators? Jack Antonov and not Shellback, the other guy. Dressor, dresser?

Yeah. Yeah, what's his name? Desner. Desner. We're going to count that. You guys close enough. Okay. How old was Taylor when her debut album was released?

Okay. 14, she signed for a songwriter, 16 at her album. Wow. Got that in there for you last episode. Okay, we'll do that one last. What did Taylor call her re-recorded albums? Taylor's version. Okay.

Okay, let's try. this. Name as many albums as you can. Oh, no. That's not fair. There are 12 of them, I'll tell you. Are there? Showgirl. 1898. Close enough, okay. 1989. Red, your favorite.

Yes. Midnight. Yes. Folklore. Yeah. Uh, the other one. Uh-huh. Yeah. No, folklore and, uh, Forevermore.

Oh, yeah, close enough. Evermore. Evermore. Uh, dead poet society. Okay. Yes. Um, um, um, cowboy one, cowboy two. I don't know.

I don't know what those are. This is pretty good. I know some of these we've only covered one song from, so it's kind of not fair. Okay. How many is that? One, six, seven. You've got more than half. You've got seven of them.

Oh, okay. Yeah, that's... Those are the ones I expected you to get, so... Yeah. Okay, we'll move along, and then we'll see if you can get more. This one you have not named yet, so... Which of Taylor's albums did she write completely solo after critics said she couldn't possibly be writing her songs? Ooh.

We've only colored one song from this one, so it's kind of a not fair question. Yeah, I don't know. Okay. I don't know. Which one is it? Speak now. That's an album? Yeah.

Oh. We've only done enchanted from that album. Oh, okay. I never talk about it. No. Okay, so no. Okay, so you don't get that one. I did like the song Enchanted.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, what was the name of Taylor's last tour? The Eros tour. The Eros tour. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I had no idea. You know, I think I told you. I think I mentioned in another episode, you would talk about the Aeros tour, and I thought it was E-R-O-S.

Yeah, like from Greek mythology. Like the Greek god of love. I don't know. I thought she was like in the kinky love image. I'm doing the Aeros Tour. Really? I'm doing the Aphrodite Tour. Maybe we should get together.

Yeah, it was the Eros tour. The different eras of her. But I got that one right. Yes, you did. You got it. Okay. Where in the track list does Taylor place her most vulnerable and personal song? Number five. Yeah. Okay. This is going to be tricky, but we just did this.

What song includes the lyric about friendship bracelets? Oh, yes, we just did that. Let me go back to you. Oh, man. It's the one that Stevie Nicks liked. Yeah, I know, I know. It's, oh, I don't remember. Don't tell me.

Oh, you got this kid. It's close. It does Indian kid. It does end in kid. It does end in kid. And you... It's not you got this? No.

No. Oh, that's the new Nike slogan. No, I don't know. I don't wait. It's... No, I've been seeing it in the World Cup. They say, you got this. Oh.

Yeah. I think it's the Adidas slogan. Okay, yeah. of I don't take care of your grandma kid Not Marjorie No it's the one where she says

You can You can face this Yeah you can face this yes It's the very poignant comment That one of our Patreon folks mentioned That helped her get through a personal crisis Very sweet

I mean more than sweet Right genuinely poignant Yeah Um, Rosen lasagna, medium power, 15 minutes. Sounds like Ojo time. Let's play.

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It doesn't start with you. It does. Right? You can do it, kid? It's actually your. Not you, your. Your. Your.

What's the next letter? You're on. You're on fire, kid. You're on. I don't know. You're on your own, kid. You're on your own, kid. You're on your own.

You're on your own. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I'm glad I got that. Also, Chase and my mom also got that one wrong. Oh. Wait, do I get partial credit? Yeah, you'll get half a point on that one.

How many album of the year, Grammys has Taylor won? I don't know how many grannies she's won. Grimmies. Album of the year? Yeah, she has the most of any, anyone. I'm going to guess. Five. Four.

Four. Oh, okay. Gratz. This one's tough. Which album was a secret double album with 15 extra tracks that we didn't know about? Oh, that's the one with Peter in it. Uh-huh. Yeah, where I thought Peter was absolutely brilliant.

Yeah, and it's just at the end. It was, yeah, at the end. Is that the poets? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What is my favorite Taylor song? We're going to have to do that whole album.

Yes. I mean, I would like to read them all. Yeah. Your favorite is Red. No, Song. Oh, Song. Your favorite song? Your favorite song?

From Red. From Red. Wow. I don't know. Have we done it? Is it a 10-minute version? Yeah. Yeah, okay.

And what was Taylor's first Pure Pop album? It's got to be 1989. You did pretty good. Shah! I'm a scholar. That was pretty good. You only missed three,

and then you got seven of the 12 albums. Okay. It's pretty good. Thank you very much. That's a lot of knowledge gained in a year. It really is frighteningly so. That was fun for me to put together. Thanks for indulging me.

Thank you. That was fun. I had no idea I knew so much. Yeah. You killed it. You know about track fives and friendship bracelets? Okay. Okay, let me ask you a question.

Okay, oh gosh. So with more than a million views. Yes. Did you anticipate a year ago we would be doing that? No. Not even a little bit. I mean, it's like you hope. You hope that it's going to do well.

but there was no world in my mind where we grew as fast as we did and we gained as many, like, as many, like, people that are here every single week and that want to support, like, on Patreon and stuff. Like, I thought maybe we would just now be getting to where we could maybe consider starting a Patreon, you know? Like, yeah, it's been such a fun journey. So what, I mean, this is a generalized question, but what has... it meant to you personally to be able to do this? I mean, does it like assuage, does it massage your need to be attached to Taylor Swift? Yeah, I think it's fun because, I mean, I think there's like seven different answers to that question, but it's part of it is that it's very fun to be, I've always been part of the Swifty fandom online, but I've always been like a lurker.

A lurker. I've just been lurking. I'm not like, I'm not commenting on things. I'm not you know, I'm just taking it all in. I know about Swifty content creators. I watch them. But like, now it's crazy that I am one of those, you know? And it's just been so fun. This is such a, like, fun creative outlet, which I think has been the best part for me is, like,

getting to choose the songs and knowing we're going to sit down and, like, have these fun conversations. And then I get to, like, choose how to promote and which clips to pick and, like, see which, what I think people are going to, like, resonate with on social media. And, yeah, it's just been so fun. Like, also, I feel like, what I feel like a lot of people in the audience also agree with is that we know that we love Taylor's work and we knew that it was good, but maybe we didn't

always have the words for why it's good. And we didn't have, like, the explanation for, like, why we think she deserves all of the success. And I think you have come in. and shown us that and like giving us the words for why we love like listening to her stories, you know? Well, it's like we said last week about shake it off, right? The, you know, you listen to it, you think about it, you think, well, it's a light glitter gel pen song. I know what glitter gel pen means.

I know, I didn't ask about the pens. I know. But, you know, what I said this last time, you know, that it's, there are, there are a rhetorical elements embedded in the song that make it good. Yeah. There are reasons. I mean, that's what's fun for me. Yeah.

Finding the reasons. Yeah. And it's just been fun. Like, I think this has been such a fun, like, it kind of did exactly what I hoped it would, you know? It's just to, like, bring a level of seriousness to talking about these things, talking about Taylor's work that I think it deserves. And also, it's just been fun.

And like, the journey of you from not really trusting Taylor as an author, as a writer from the beginning. And like the first few episodes, you're like, okay, sure, sure, sure. And then, like, to see as you've gotten more of her work under your belt, like, understanding, like, oh, maybe I can, like, trust her and know that she's doing any things on purpose and, like, understanding her kind of signatures and stuff. Like, it's just been so fun. I love to turn people into Swifties, you know? Yeah, I'm going to have to make a, well, I've made that list of the typical tailors. Yeah, the typical element she sticks in her work. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I can tell you what's been most fun for me is when I read the comments. And, you know, one of you mentioned that you listen to this with your child, you know, and having been a teacher all my life, you know, it's fun for me to go back to teaching, having been an administration. in the last couple of decades. And it's fun to go back to teaching. It's fun to have an impact on other people's lives who get to hear about poetry in a way that they don't usually think about it. Right.

That's incredibly. And I love working with you. Yeah. We're having so much fun. I know. I know. I just, I think you and Chase are the best. We are the best.

Thank you. So, yeah, it's fun to hang out and just talk. Yeah. I'm having a great time. This has been such a fun year. Exhausting. Yeah, it's... It's been a lot more work than I was expecting, I think,

just maybe because of how fast it grew and how many people are interested in, like, chatting and having conversations, which I love. That's also a fun part, is now I can share something about Taylor on Instagram and I get 100 people that want to talk to me about it, whereas before it was like two of my friends, you know? Right. Yeah.

That's funny. It's like really expanded my circle of like being able to talk about these things that I really care about, you know. Well, that's it when I mentioned Christina Rosetti's goblin market last week. And people, you know, maybe two or three of them will go and read it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, they're always linked. I go read them. I find the links and I link them all and I pay attention.

So, yeah, it's just been really fun and a little bit unexpected and just a really cool journey. Good. Okay. Yeah. Maybe we should do it another year. Okay. All right. Okay.

Today's episode. Shall we start with this one? Yeah. Okay. Okay. I have, I, I, this song is really special, I think. You have not given me any clues about how you feel about it. So I'm interested.

But I think that this is such a fun. You've, you've seemed to have kind of gravitated towards the songs where Taylor's talking about childhood and kind of going. back to her childhood or in this case I feel like she's actually talking about from her childhood perspective and so I wanted to save this one for today. This is seven

from folklore. This is the seventh track on folklore in case you were wondering. Cute. August is the eighth because it's the eighth month in case you're wondering about that as well. It has nothing to do with what we're talking about today. It does demonstrate a high level of intentionality. Yes. This is written by Taylor and Aaron Dessner and produced by Aaron Dessner.

Okay. Take it away. Yes, I gravitate toward the poems about children. So I like this one. Okay. Yes. Good. Yeah, I can't wait to do.

You know, there are albums that absolutely intrigue me. Folklore is one of them. For sure, yeah. And, you know, when we, when, if we ever do finish a whole album, if that ever happens, I think I'd like to stack all my notes together and for that album and, you know, to kind of re-compartmentalize them so that they're more systematic and then take a really strong look at just this album. Yeah, definitely. Okay, seven. Yes. Obviously, it's about a seven-year-old.

Yes. And I think there are reasons why seven. I think there are a lot of reasons why seven. Okay. So I made a list. Okay, great. I'm big on lists. Have you guys figured that out now?

There have been a lot of lists. Yeah. Seven. Seven is the number of completion. For those of you who are in a numerology or those of you who are not, Please understand that ancient societies were. They viewed numbers, geometric figures as being symbolically important. So three is the number of the godhead, not just in Christianity, but in a number of religions.

You know, why? One of the reasons is because three is a triangle. And the triangle is the first two-dimensional figure above a line. Okay, yeah. Okay, and so geometrically, it's very important to ancient cultures. So it was considered magical, okay? Four is the number of the earth.

Okay, okay. Oh, the elements, there's four elements. We have four elements, four directions, four seasons. Oh, gosh, okay, yeah. Right, so four is emblematic of the earth. And if you put the heavens and the earth together, you get seven. You get seven, yes.

And by the way, if you multiply, them you get 12 12 12 people on a jury 12 zodiac signs 12 months of the year yeah and so numerology you know numerology is very important and you know seven is the number of completion it's the number of perfection okay um there is something perfect about the the child the memory of the child narrator in this poem um you know so i think that seven is important for that. Seven is also, I mean, you see it all through ancient history, literature, religion. There are seven days of mourning, seven days of commemoration in Gilgamesh.

There were seven days of the flood in Gilgamesh. Okay. There are seven gates of the underworld in the Sumerian godhead. You may know that the seventh son is considered to be the blessed, child with second sight. Okay. So the seventh child had a special sight. Interesting.

Right. So for this poem, I mean, I don't know if that plays in here. You know, originally before they discovered more of the planets, they were thought to be seven celestial bodies. You know, if you look at the Bible, there are seven years of famine and seven years of plenty, right? So, or the other way around in the Joseph story. But, and so you may know that seven is a very very important. important number in the Bible. You know, a sin might be visited on, on a person for 49 generations. Well,

why 49? Seven times seven. Seven times seven. You know, there are seven days of creation. So it's considered to be, again, the divine hand of God, divine perfection. It's also considered to be a number of community. There are a number of folk tales. Wait, what's the name of this album? Folklore. Yeah, there are a number of folk tales in which seven is a symbolic number that means community. So, for example, there are seven dwarves. Okay, yeah. Right, or seven daughters in the Pleiades.

Okay. So there are seven girls in the Pleiades. They're being pursued by Orion, the hunter. He doesn't give them up. And so Zeus takes them and scatters them in the heavens. And so they form the seven little stars of the Pleiades constellation. So, you know, I don't know that Taylor Swift has any or all of these in mind, but I think seven is highly symbolic, and I think that it plays well here. I think it's also that age at which we're just coming out of first grade, you know, and it's an age of awareness, but not fully acknowledging, you know, our here.

humanity as a child. Right. It's the age when we see things, but we don't often understand things. Uh-huh. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So it reminds me of, I remember my dad was in the Navy, and when we lived around Washington, D.C.,

he always had this rule that once a month we're going to go someplace. Okay. You know, we lived on the eastern seaboard. We're going to go to a museum. We're going to go to a famous battlefield. We're going to go down and watch an Apollo launch. you know, we were in the car once a month and we were going someplace up to Niagara Falls

over to New York. Nice. And everywhere I went, I realized that there was this one road and I couldn't understand that this one road seemed to lead everywhere. I don't know if you've seen it. You drive down the highway and there's a sign that says

frontage road next exit. And I remember finally asking my dad, why don't we just take frontage road? Because it seemed to go everywhere. Yeah, there's always a frontage road. You know? And so, yes, when I read a poem like seven, I have to admit that I put myself into this child narrative. Yeah, that's a perfect way to describe. The thing that you were saying with awareness, but still like, you have an awareness,

but you're still like a very, like, naive about everything. I could see the sign. I could read the sign. Read it, yeah. It said frontage road. Yeah. Why don't we take Frontage Road? For our non-American listeners, a frontage road is like a side road.

Yeah. And so there's always, there's, it's not a road called Frontage Road. But when you're a kid, all the rest of the signs are names of roads. Yeah, they're all straight names. Yeah. Like Wilson Boulevard. Yeah. Yeah.

And I kept passing Frontage Road. Frontage Road is just that road you pull off the highway to get gas. Yeah. But fronts the highway. I didn't know that. Yeah, I just kept reading about Frontage Road. That's funny. So, yes, when I was reading this poem and I saw the child narrator who didn't quite perceive the universe in its fullness, I thought about myself as child.

Yeah, that's funny. That's a perfect comparison, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so Seven has lots of different meanings. certainly that number of childhood when a level of awareness is just awakening. And so we start with verse one. Yes. Please picture me in the trees.

Okay, so she's making an appeal to us, please. She's addressing us directly in an apostrophe. So, you know, the speaker in the poem is talking to an unknown listener, right? That's called an apostrophe. And picture, picture me. Okay, so I love the word picture. It engages us in an act of imagination. Okay, yeah.

Okay, because she's going to ask us to return with her to her childhood. I didn't live her childhood, but I lived a childhood. Right? So I can't, I can't, you know, know her childhood, but I can picture my own and place her in it. Yes, yes, exactly. It's a wonderful act of engagement, isn't it? I don't know. To me, it was just a lovely way to invite us into the poem.

Agreed. You can note the use of the imperative verb. You know, this is a, it's a kind of collaborative memory. It's not a perfect, objective memory. She says, come into my memory and think about it with me. And then we have the trees. Okay. So there's a pastoral poem.

Okay. So, you know, I'm reading it, and I'm immediately thinking about Emily Dickinson wandering in the trees outside of Amherst or Robert Frost writing his poems of New England. You know, this is a pastoral. Actually, what came to my mind immediately was Virgil, you know, the Roman author. Okay. Publius Wriglius Nala. Yeah, totally. Yeah, Virgil.

writing his ecologues, you know, poems, pastoral poetry. So why a tree? Well, tree's a symbol. A tree is a symbol of growth. Okay. Okay. We've got a child. Rootedness.

Okay. Trees can be long-lived, timelessness. You know, this is years later that the memory is going to be occurring. They're also tall. and so to be to be to imagine the tree is to look down on the world to have another perspective interesting right so she's inviting us to see the world from this tall perspective well the narrator really isn't a child the narrator's an adult correct yeah so she's taller now but she's looking backward in time and down on herself as a child cute yeah isn't that cute yeah I love that

I do too. So for me, the tree works as a symbol several different ways. And again, I think if you ask Taylor Swift, which one of these does she mean? I hope she says, oh, all of them. Yeah. Yeah, I love the tree, especially from a perspective of hope. Yeah, from up above, and we're just like watching it all from a higher place. We're reengaging with a memory.

Yeah. And then you've got the nice poetic elements, please, picture. alliteration with the piece. And then me, trees. You see the internal rhyme. And please too, right? And please, yeah. Please trees, me.

Yeah, you're right. Yeah. So, gosh. All we have is apostrophe, imperatives, pastoral tradition, alliteration, internal rhyme,

and symbolic imagery. Just casual one line? Yeah. She does, I feel like you, You, the first line of all, like, so many of her songs, her poems, you can spend so much time on. Yes. You know, I think, again, if you go two weeks ago to the kid poem. Yes.

Whatever the rest of it is. Oh, yeah. You've got this, kid. You're on your own kid. That's what I said. Yes, if you go back to that first line again, like you said, like you said, you. I could have just stopped with the first line. That first stanza in that poem to me is consummately good poetry.

So, yes, there are only about five literary devices going on here in the first line. So I think she hits her peak in the first line. Second line, I hit my peak at seven. Okay, this is hyperbolic. Yes. Right? She's being exaggerative. You know, no one hits their point.

peak at seven or well hopefully hopefully yeah um it's also dramatic irony okay okay you remember different types of irony verbal irony is where you say one thing and you mean another but dramatic irony is where you the reader know more than the narrator or someone in the poem yeah so she says she hit her peak at seven but we know she's an adult writer and so we know she's going to hit a peak later on right yes it's when she meets Travis. And, you know, but she's, but the narrator is establishing that this, this poem is from the views of the child, of childhood. And so life's peak is, you know, is only, you know, life's highest peak is childhood where

you're at your most innocent. Right. Okay. Okay. So if it is her peak, it's at the. peak of innocence. Okay. It's where you think frontage road really is a road that leaves somewhere.

And there's a sweetness to that. You know, there is an abiding sweetness to this poem. Agreed. Yes. Feet in the swing over the creek. Okay, please tell me who is not swung out on a swing. And so, you know, yes, you have that kettesthetic imagery. Yes.

Everybody's felt it. And so when she talks about her extending your feet, you shoot your feet, you shoot your feet forward in order to impel the swing. So you can go higher. So you can go higher and higher. And you want to be as tall as the tree. Yeah. Right?

You want to be as tall as an adult. You want to have that perspective, but not quite. But the memory is still in the motion of things. And then you've got the creek as a symbol. You know, the creek is transition, risk, possibility, the boundary between safety and adventure. You know, you think about a river is frequently a symbol of memory. This is another one of our memory poems.

Yes, for sure. So, yeah, she's remembering, but, you know, understand that a river is a symbol of memory because it flows out to a greater ideal. And also the water that you remember is never the same water, right? It's always, it looks the same. I just spoke my mind a little bit. It looks the same, but it's not the same water, right?

It's filtered through the mists of time, through the memory that you recreate. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. And I think that the swing itself is a symbol, right? You know, swinging the child back and forth between the earth and the sky, you know, pending like a TikTok pendulum going back and forth, time passing, and it'll never be the same. It'll never be the same swing. It'll never be the same moment. And you've got lovely internal rhyme with feet and creak.

Yeah. She begins and ends. Just as she began and end the first line. Yeah. With that internal rhyme. Okay. Two down. Wait, but this is fun because it's, it took me a long time to pick up on this.

Like, I hit my peak at seven feet. Like, she's in the swing. And she's going so high that she hits her peak at seven feet. Yes, because she swings up at seven feet. But it's her feet in the swing. And she's seven years old. Right. So we're using the word feet as a double entendre to have two different meanings.

Is that enjambment? No, in jambment is when you put two. Actually, yeah, the lines can. Because couldn't it be? It could be, yeah. I hit my pick at seven feet in the swing. In the swing while I was in the swing. Yes.

I hit my peak at seven feet in the swing. over the creek. So if, but if your feet are in the swing, you understand how dangerous that is. Oh, yeah, you can't, you shouldn't stand on the swing. Unless you're being daring. Yeah. Yeah, and so it's ambiguous, right? Yes.

Are we talking about the pendulum being seven feet high? Like, her feet are extended forward or are her feet dangerously in the seat of the swing? I know, which one? I don't know. Ask Taylor. I was too scared to jump in. You know, so does you ever jump out of a swing? Oh, yes.

Do you ever hurt yourself? Oh, yes. Yes. I only ever hurt myself. I know. And it's so funny because I think that she taps into memories of childhood that are so familiar that she, that we have to engage. Mm-hmm. You know, I remember swinging high and being getting, I thought, I'm going to go

all the way, all the way, all the way. You're going to figure out how to flip over it. Practically. And then the change would like jerk when you hit that place and you kind of almost scare yourself and you think, I can't jump now. No, yeah. It's get crazy. You know, so I would almost dare myself. And sometimes there would be obstacles. I remember, I literally remember playing ball one time with friends and then going and swinging and we put a bat down in front and we tried to see if we could swing so far. could jump past the bat. Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, one of the kids landed on the bat. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Of course he did. Yeah. It wasn't me, thank goodness. And it was a lesson to, that's a bad idea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so literally, the child is too scared to jump in. This introduces emotional conflict into our poem. Okay. Okay, we're going to see emotional conflict play a big

part of this one. For sure, yes. Yes. Yes. The child fears the water, fears maybe the feet in the seat of the swing. Metaphorically, it's life's uncertainty suspended between this kind of limitless imagination. How far can you go and fear? How, you know, what's too far? Yeah. What's going to like hold you back? Yeah.

Right. And there's also a homonym in here, two and two, T-O-O-excessive and too toward. I was too scared to jump. Oh, okay. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. But I, I was high in the sky. Okay, she repeats the word I.

You know, the rhythm is necessary. But also I think that she's trying to mimic a person who's recalling a moment. Like where you stumble a little bit. Right. You're saying, it's like, you know, I remember riding with my dad in a car and seeing, yeah. It's like I, I, you know.

Right, right, right, right. Right. And so. I like that. Yeah, she's giving, she's adding a little verisimilitude, right, a sense of truth and reality, barisimilitude, Latin, veritas, you know. Yeah, the truth serum. That's truth, right.

It's also the motto of Harvard. Oh, right, of course. High in the sky, okay, internal rhyme. So this is another line, eye, sky with three of them. High high sky. Yeah. Wow. I know.

Wow. She must be a poet. I think we've established that. I think so. It's a symbol, you know, why the sky, limitlessness, freedom, you know, reaching beyond ourselves. I think all of those work. It's a metaphor of freedom, emotional transcendence, the limitless possibilities of child. You know, who knows what the seven-year-old will become one day.

You know, and that's the beauty of considering the child. And then I was so interested in the next line, which brings us immediately off the symbolic landscape. Right. And right smack down into the world with Pennsylvania under me. You know, and I really worked in. work with this line. Okay. Because I thought, okay, so she wants to reintroduce the facts. The fact is she was in Pennsylvania. But she says with Pennsylvania under me. And I thought, well, no, not yet. It's the entire state. It's Pennsylvania. Oh, no. So it's still not grounded in reality because the whole of

the state is under her. It's like a dreamlike landscape where she can see the whole state stretch out in front of me. Oh, that's nice. Right. I'm flying so high. I'm way up here. It's like climbing a tree as a child and getting up there and you look out and you just see forever. Yeah, you think you can see the whole state. You see the whole state. So it's still this symbolic landscape that is the world of the child. Interesting. Yeah.

How big is the world of the child? It's immense, right? The whole state. Yeah. So you've got this juxtaposition in the line between the child's imaginative perspective. and the real place, Pennsylvania. Okay. And what it caused me to do was reflect on the psychology of childhood.

Okay. Right. I mean, you know, for a child, the world is big. Everybody's big, you know. And, I mean, although the state's big, that perspective lets them wrap their arms around it just a little bit. Right. Because obviously the world is much bigger than Pennsylvania. Yes.

But Pennsylvania is like maybe an easier concept to grasp. Yes. Take this as your sign to go. Just get out there and go. This summer at Best Western, get 1,000 bonus points and a chance to win 250,000 bonus points. Life's a trip. Make the most of it at bestwestern.com. No additional purchase necessary for sweeps.

See bonus point teas and seas and sweeps rules for details. Okay. So we come to the end of the verse. Uh-huh. Can you tell I like this one? Yes, this is what I was hoping for. Yeah. So the last line,

Are There Still Beautiful Things, is so generalized, so vague, so open, and yet I think it's one of the most beautiful, poignant, rhetorical questions of the poem. Agreed.

You know, what's she talking about? Are there where? What? I mean, the speaker is asking not necessarily about Pennsylvania. Right. You know, are there still beautiful things in Pennsylvania? Well, yeah. She's asking is, you know, as an adult, are there still beautiful things?

Yeah, like, do I still have that? Can I still look through the eyes of my seven-year-old self? Right. and find goodness in this world that it doesn't seem so good right now. Yeah, can I look at a tree and imagine, you know, I could put my hand on that branch and I could put my foot on that branch and I could climb way up. I could see the whole place.

I could stand on a swing and jump right over that creek. I could fly seven feet high. I could fly taller than any adult I know. You know, do you still, you know, when you're swinging and you get that heaviness as you penned downward toward the earth and then the lightness of being when you're up. Yeah. Yeah, does that still bring flutters to your stomach, you know, or is it just that queasy feeling? You wish you hadn't eaten all that old leftover spaghetti. Yeah.

Yeah, I just, I think this is the perfect climax to the end of this first stanza to say, are there still beautiful things? Like, can we still touch childhood's eye and see the beauty in the world and in our lives? And, you know, still out there? It's also fun to think of this, maybe not fun, but it's also interesting to think about this in the time that Taylor was writing it. So this is the pandemic album. Oh, that's interesting.

Yeah, I had not thought about that. So it's interesting to think about it in the terms of, okay, here I am, like, barricaded in my house and I'm not supposed to go anywhere and all these people are dying and everything feels bad and half of the world believes this is fake and half of the world understands it's real. And, like, are there, like, are we going to get out of this? Like, are there still good things to come? Right. Yeah. Yeah. What is where where is the beauty now?

Yeah. Yeah. I just, I don't know, you know, she takes, she takes one part nostalgia and one part existential uncertainty. Oh my gosh. That feels, that, that sentence you just said just kind of blew my, that feels like the, the Taylor Swift's thesis, like the pieces of her thesis. Is this nostalgia and existentialism? and put them and mix them up. Mix them up and gives us the perspective of a child.

Yeah. And looks for beauty in the world. The chorus. Yes. Sweet tea in the summer. I have no idea how she's going to sing this. It's got to be a quiet, there's got to be a sweetness to it.

So you've got this, to me, I wrote in my notes, That is a beautiful sensory time capsule. Absolutely. You can taste it. You can feel how cold and refreshing it is. Exactly. You can see the sweat coming down the glass. That's right.

And the fact that it's summer, right? It's hot. It's bright. You're outside. You know, there's nothing like that cold glass of tea on a hot summer day. Yeah. It's a representation of innocence through. an ordinary experience, right?

It's just having a drink, for goodness sakes. You know, but it's that special drink at a special time. And so it's got wonderful sensory imagery. It's got wonderful representational symbolism. You know, why summer? Summer is that age of youth, that age of experience, that age of growth.

You know, why is the tea sweet? Well, because life is sweet at that time. And she's a sweet little kid. And she's a sweet kid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, lots going on in five whole words of the first line of the chorus.

Cross your heart won't tell no other. Okay. It's a childhood ritual. Cross your heart. Hope to die. Yes. It's a ritual of secrecy, a symbol of intimacy. So, you know, now it's like she's talking with someone else.

It's a symbol of absolute trust. I'm handing my secrets over to you. You'll notice the informal use of grammar, childhood's diction. Won't tell no other. Won't tell. Yeah, it's a double negative. You know, now in English, we're told you're not supposed to use them. That's a silly.

You've told us before that. You're allowed to do that. That's right. You're allowed to do that. Great writers have always done it. Shakespeare does it. This the most unkindest cut of all. Multiple superlative.

Yes, when you do that, you reinforce the negativity. You don't do away with it. So, you know, I will never, ever, ever tell anyone else. And though I can't recall your face, I still got love for you. So I keep using the word poignant. She's telling you to a childhood friend. and she's going to share secrets with that childhood friend. And then for the life of her, she cannot quite remember the child's face.

Yeah. And it made me stop. Yeah, me too. Does it? Yes, literally every time I hear this song. This song like has a real effect on me. So I, you know, when I was in elementary school, when I thought frontage roads led somewhere. I mean, I had three great friends, and they all had funny names.

Well, Jeff Jeffreys. That is a funny name, you're correct. It sounds redundant. And then John Johnson. No. Yes. It's really from a children's book. I know, Jeff Jeffreys, John Johnson?

I know, it sounds like I'm making this up. And then there was Jim Nellons. Okay, that's normal. Yeah, that feels normal. Anyway, we were the four Js. Okay. Oh, yeah, that's cute. Yeah, Jeff, John, Jim, and Jerry.

And Jeff, John, Jim, and Jerry went everywhere together. And I saw Jim Nellon's years later at an event. I didn't expect him to be there. It was so funny to see him as someone graduated from high school. Yeah, like a grownup. The others I haven't seen. And I remember John, Jeff's face I cannot remember, you know. And it's funny because I remember his, I remember he was the shortest of the four of us.

I remember he was very thin and very wiry. active, terrific at kickball. That's what you need to be as a friend. That's right. That's right. It's important. But the memory of his face escapes me. And so I asked why.

You know, why preserve the memory of the emotion but not the detail of the face? Is it too painful to recall? Maybe, but also I feel like how people make you feel is more important than how people. how they looked. I think that's part of it. Yeah. That's a really good analysis. Yeah.

How you make me feel is more important than... Than literally anything else. You know, like our friendship is the important part. Right. What you looked like when you were seven is not that important to me, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, like the first couple of times I read this, I felt like a devastating admission.

Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah, that is upsetting because it's like you were very clearly important to me. So why can't I remember your face? But the fact is the next line redeems it. It took me two or three readings. Okay. Okay.

Yeah. It really did. But I realized, oh, but it's the fact that the love for the person survives. Yeah. And it transcends the image that failed. Right. So, yeah, I can't remember your face, but I just remember how much I love you. Yeah.

And it really, you know, I kept, I don't know, I kept thinking about the psychology of the child. It explores the psychology of autobiography. You know, how do we shape childhood memories? You know, what impacts us as a child? I mentioned taking the grandkids out to the main event and playing games till nearly midnight. You know, Oliver is 12. And I thought about myself as 12, and I thought, I hope he remembers this. I thought he'll remember the joy he shared with us if he doesn't remember how.

how many game tickets or what prize he came away with. Specifics don't really matter in the long run. Yeah. It's the feelings and the experience. Right. That and that's... Being with people. Yes.

The important people. I think that's how the child shapes, you know, her memory in this poem. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, I can't recall your face. And it's okay because I still got love for you. I just, the simplicity of diction, you know, again, I still got. God, love for you, you know, is very monosyllabic the way a child would talk. You know, it strips away everything else.

I mean, I think what she does very delicately as a writer here is she's not giving me metaphor. She's not giving me imagery. She's not playing with other poetic devices. She does use assonance. You know, she ties words together. Got love for you, see all the O's. Yeah. I think the understatement of it is just so raw, elemental emotion.

Agreed. Right? So I don't know. She does that when it's necessary. She strips all this stuff away and she just like tells you what she wants you to hear, you know? Right. Yes. The, you know, the glitzy stuff that makes her a poet drops away.

And that makes her a poet too. Right, right. Knowing when to use things and when to not. Exactly. Yes. your braids like a pattern okay so she doesn't remember her face she remembers the emotion

and she remembers the braids okay so it's a simile the braids are like a pattern so I think she throws a simile at us because it's important you know how are the braids symbolic well a braid a braid is

connection it's weaving lines together you know like their their lives were woven together. That's exactly right. Their lives are woven together. It's, you know, it's a continuity of friendship. It's a pattern and patterns are mnemonic devices, right? The reasons why we start fairy tales once upon a time. The reasons why they're always three, you know, there are three bears and three couches and three beds. It's so we can remember. And somehow the the interwoven continuity of the braid itself becomes a symbol of a mnemonic device.

So I remember you for your braids. And then one of my, I don't know if this is one of my favorite lines, maybe, love you to the moon and to Saturn. So she says she loves the other person. I still got love for you. Your braids are like a pattern. Obviously another female child. Love you to the moon and to Saturn.

Well, it's a cliche in idiom. There's a typical Taylor. Yes. Taylor typically takes a cliche, and then she changed it a little bit to match her work. So it should be love you to the moon and back. But here the child says, I love you to moon and Saturn.

Okay. Why Saturn? Well, it's bigger than the... It's huge. It's huge. Farther away. She expands her love not just to the limit of the moon, but to that tiny, tiny, tiny...

dot in the sky that's this giant planet, you know. It also is kind of fun because it's like you probably like kind of just learned about Saturn, you know? Right. Yeah, this is an age when you're learning about dinosaurs, volcanoes, and planets. Yeah. So yeah, she's learned about Saturn and Saturn seems like this giant place. It expands her love beyond the moon.

It's right. It's like thrown out there into the cosmos, which I think is just great. Yeah, me too. You know, I think it's symbolic of immense distance. It's symbolic of love immeasurable. Right. Just lasting forever and ever. That's right.

It's like an infinite scale of love. Okay, why Saturn? Why not Pluto? You know, if it were Oliver, he'd probably say Uranus. For obvious reasons, because he's a 12-year-old boy. You know Saturn has a system of seven rings. Oh, my God. Right.

So. What the hell? heck. I know. The title of the poem is seven. Saturn is also, you know, that need to get my astrological delineator. Yeah, astrologically, Saturn is interesting because there's something called the Saturn return. Okay, so you know about this?

Yes. So 29 and a half years, you know, Saturn makes its return and it depends upon where it is when you were born. Yeah, sometime between like 28 and 30. That's right. Yeah, you have your Saturn return. That's right. So, you know, you're born and then at approximately age 30, you get your first Saturn return. Well, why 30?

Well, you're in your early adulthood. You're finding out life and jobs and all that stuff. And then again, at age 60, while now you're approaching retirement. And again, at age 90, if you're lucky. Gosh, that's crazy. Grandmami and, like, your mom have been through three Saturn returns. They certainly have. Yeah.

Wow. My dad did too. Yeah. So, yeah, so it's symbolic of cycles of life. Right. Right. So, you know, I love you to the moon and to Saturn. I think she's also implying throughout my entire life.

Right. Right. So when I'm 30, I'll remember you here as writing the song. When I'm 60, you'll still be in my memory. Wait. If I live to 90, I'll still remember you. Taylor literally was 30 when she was writing this. Was she literally 30?

Yeah. Well, I think Saturn is a really good choice instead of Uranus. Yes. Saturn can also be a symbol of karma, can be discipline. It's a taskmaster. It can be structure. So there are a lot of reasons why Saturn is just the perfect choice for this. Taylor has a song called Karma.

Just putting that out there. Oh. They all just heard it. You heard you say that. Okay. I just need to say it. Yeah, they talk. You guys talk about when she rolls her eyes when I say one of these things, huh?

You know, it's not poetically a beautiful line. I just think it's kind of perfect for this poem. Yeah, I just love it because it's clunky in the way that a kid would say it. Yeah. And, but when she sings it, it's fun to sing. Like, there's something about. the poetic of it or the melody, I don't know

but it's fun to sing. I think this is probably one of the lines that people use the most is like people get a tattooed. Probably you could ask Chase like... Really? They put this a oh to the moon is... Yeah, people like or they get just a moose. Like I've seen like

friend tattoos or something like somebody will have a moon and somebody will have a Saturn which I love that. You can, who knows how many cards and stuff I've put this in Chase, you know, we could ask him. I use it all the time. It's just such a fun line. So are you guys getting tattooed? Maybe. Really? No, well, we did get tattoos when we went to New York this year. Oh, okay. The shell? It's a soup dumpling. A soup dumpling? Well, yeah, it's funny

because Leslie and I were talking about, hey, how about that soup dumpling tattoo? Wow. We always eat soup dumplings in New York City, and we were in New York, and I was like, Like, we didn't have any plans. I was like, you know, she should get tattoos. It sounds fun to get a tattoo in New York City. And then I was like, let's get soup dumplings. And here we are. Hey, y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair.

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And you people make a big deal out of the things you learn about me. She's got a soup dumpling. Next time I'm going to get a moon and Chase's going to get a Saturn. Oh, that'd be so cute. Okay. Next line. Yes. Pass down like folk songs.

Like folk songs assimily. It would seem to be central to the album since it's titled Folklore. Yes. Friendship is like folk songs because it lies in the oil. moral tradition. Right. Folk songs are sung and passed down generation after generation. Friendship does that.

You know, it's interesting because, you know, both my girls reached out to me this week. Diana and I would have passed our wedding anniversary. Yes. So, you know, she passed away, and I had to send them a couple of stories about that day. Okay, yeah. You know, they weren't there. No. No.

Yeah, but you're passing it on like folk songs. I was passing it on like folk songs. And yeah, and then I read this and I thought, oh, that's very sweet. That's kind of what I did was passing that story on. You know, those are stories that they won't know. And soon no one will know, I mean, you know, since I haven't passed away. And, you know, the only person who might remember might be your mom. Yeah.

You know, and thank goodness she doesn't know everything. Oh no, she's going to call you after this. Maybe. My dad's going to call and say it, listen, Jerry. We're going to need to know those stories. Those stories, yeah. I just, you know, and the fact that they had stories, again, underscores the braids as community, right? That these two lives are intertwined.

They're interwoven. That, you know, love survives. more through the retelling than it does through documentation. You know, I mean, you can see Kathleen put on her Instagram, my daughter, a picture of us the day we were married. And so she's got a picture, and it's a great picture. I'm somewhat thinner. Hair's a different color.

Hair's a different color, yes. But, you know, unlike the common idiom that the picture would tell a thousand worth a thousand words. You know, it's only in the telling of the stories that you can document the actual love, the actual moment. Right. And the survivability of their love in this poem certainly depends on that. Yeah, it depends on talking about it.

That's right. That's why she says, the love lasts so long. So she kind of completes the simile of the previous line, down like folk songs the love lasts so long that the memory preserves that affection. Right. And we're at the end of

that chorus. The chorus. The bridge. I love this bridge. And I've been meaning to tell you. Okay, so a shift to the second person direct address. Yes. Who's the you? Who's the narrator talking with?

The narrator becomes emotionally present here in this line, almost reluctantly. Because she says I've been meaning to. I've been hesitant to. Still talking to her friend, I think. I think your house is haunted. I just loved that line. The first time when you said this to me,

and I read through it the first time, and I hit the haunted line, I thought that is so perfect. You know, what kid doesn't thrive on the story of a house being haunted? It's a lovely example of childhood misunderstanding. Absolutely, yes. It is Frontage Road. Yes, yes.

Right. Yes, I think your house is haunted. Your dad is always mad. And that must be why. I think you should come live with me. and we can be pirates. Then you won't have to cry or hide in the closet. I'm sorry, I had to read that all together.

I was so good. Yeah. So the child misunderstands a situation. Yes. And we don't know what the situation is. I don't think that the narrator in the poem understands a situation. Right. Right?

The adult narrator never was privy to understand what was wrong in the house. Yeah, what was going on with dad. Right. Yeah. You know, it's a child's attempt to explain the world that they don't understand. And so they reach out, and the only thing they can think of is ghosts. Yeah, there must be ghosts here. Right.

Yeah, it's like the supernatural imagination takes over, and now we've got an explanation. There's got to be goats. Yeah, and it's kind of like, she's like, well, my dad isn't mad. Like, my dad's never really mad. Right. And my house doesn't have ghosts. Right. So your dad is mad, so it must be ghosts.

You know, and I have to say this touched a lot of places in my childhood because I thought about exactly what you just said. You know, my parents were loving, caring, wonderful people. You know them. Yes. And, you know, and I lived a lovely, idyllic childhood. And there was a kid on our block that I knew had trouble. And I didn't understand. I didn't know why.

Yeah, I didn't get it. Yeah, because it's not your experience. And at that point in your life, you only know what you know. You only know what you've experienced. Yeah, you can say thank you for those blessings that I had. And I, you know, I never thought he was haunted, though. But I like this. You know, haunting, I think, is a symbol, obvious symbol of domestic dysfunction.

Right. Right. Something's dysfunctional in the house. The use of the word house is metonymy, by the way. represents, you know, that's when you represent something. So it actually means the family. I think your family's haunted. Something's, your dad is always mad.

And that's dramatic irony. So now we know more than the narrator in the child. Yeah, because now we're understanding like, oh. Yeah, something's wrong. Is he, does he have an abuse problem? Is he physically abusive to her? You know, sexually abusive, abusive to other people. you know, what's the catalog of reasons why, you know, does he have drug, alcohol, gambling, money, what is it, you know?

And so we intervene on behalf of supernatural. Right. Because the child, you know, the child recognizes abuse and an adult anger but can't reconcile herself to it. Yeah, because this is not something that I've ever experienced, so it doesn't make sense to me. But it doesn't cross my experience. I think you should come live with me. Yeah. Okay, so we've got compassion in its purest form, right?

I mean, I'll reach out. And now it's like I'm feeling like that scene in Forrest Gump when Jenny gets to go live with her grandmother. You know, solutions are simple. Right. You know, love fixes suffering. Yeah, yeah. My house is full of love. That's right.

Come live with me. Come live with me, and guess what we'll do? We can be pirates, which I just love that. I know. It's just so cute. Yes, and now I'm like channeling sense and sensibility where Margaret, the youngest child, you know, obviously wants to go off and be an adventurer. You know, pirates, I think, symbolic. Pirates are free.

Pirates can do what they want. They're swish-buckling. They're, you know, they're just like, wait, another character, maybe Peter. Yeah, there's no rules to be Peter, Pan, or to be pirate. Stay up as long as you want, get your sword out, shine it and sharpen it. It is, this is like the child's version of an adult escape fantasy. Right, right. I want to go to Pago, Pago and live on the beach.

Nope, I want to be a pirate. And I think that the adventure is an offer of emotional rescue. you know, because then you won't have to cry. Right. You know, very simple diction again. We strip away the literary devices like symbols, and she just says, you know, I don't want you to cry. You know, the child identifies with suffering. She just misunderstands the causes.

Right. Or hide in the closet. Then I wrote in my notes. I think that's the poem's darkest image, you know, because I can see a child hiding in a closet. Yeah. And dads and mom are in a fight. Yes. She's crying, hiding in a closet.

Maybe sometime the friend, the narrator, was at her house when this happened. And so she experienced it firsthand, like her friend crying in the closet, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And the closet, I think, is a symbol of, you know, fear, secret. survival, you know, early in the poem, she says she crosses her heart and swears not to tell. It is that secrecy. There's a secret, you know. And I made a note, actually, on this one, I said the fact that Swift never explains why the child hides. Why is the adult a threat? And it makes the image more powerful. It really does. You know, if you watch horror movies, I'm not a really

a big fan of horror movies, but the best horror movies to me are the ones that imply threat. Right, right. You know, there's a great moment in Silence of the Lambs, which is a great horror movie. Yeah. And it's when Clarice is going to go see Lechner for the very first time. And the curator of the sanitarium says, don't get near him, don't touch anything. he says this is the last time someone got close to him and he hands her some pictures of a nurse

and he says we managed to reconstruct most of her nose you know and we don't see the pictures right right we see her face looking at the pictures but we don't see the pictures and she pulls the same trick here we've got this pathetic image of a child hiding in

a closet and we don't know why. But I think it's what gives it its powerful impact. Well, and that also allows you to put yourself into that no matter what your situation was, if you did have something bad happened to when you were a kid, no matter what it was, you can maybe put this, then it makes the whole song be able to like transfer into your song. Into my life. Yeah. Yeah, it's what Edgar Allan Poe called that window.

the open window that the best authors leave for the readers. Yes. Yeah. So just like a folk song, our love will be passed on. So repetition creates structural unity here. It also stresses the link to the theme about folk lore, folk tales. And notice in the last line, the shift from the love will be passed on to our love will be passed on. Oh, yeah.

I never noticed that. Yeah. so that their relationship becomes a kind of legacy of love and memory. Yeah. So we change the word. And she'll do that later on too. In the very next line. Yes.

Verse two. Oh, we're so close to the end. This is a sweet little song. Like there's not. It is. It's kind of perfectly packaged. Four stanzas. Yeah.

Verse two, please picture me in the woods. Okay. Note that in. in the weeds. Instead of saying, please picture me in the trees, it becomes the weeds. Okay, so trees imply heightened perspective,

grandeur, you know, beauty. Weeds are wildness. They choke out other life forms. Trees, shade, and protect, weeds kill. Okay, yeah. Yeah. So she does this word substitution thing that she, you know,

in the previous line, the love changes to our love and in this line trees changes to weeds. Yeah, that's nice. Before I learned civility, what is civility? Social conditioning, right? Before I was socially conditioned not to say the things we're not supposed to admit to. Before I had an adult understanding of the world and I could just say anything I wanted to. Yeah, before I learned how to cover up my authentic childhood expressions.

Yeah, before I had to learn to like keep things in and not, you know, not throw tantrums. Right. Yeah. Do I look good in this shirt? Your answer is, well, of course you do. Of course you do. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, does this make me look fat? No, never. Okay, good. Yeah, civility is just a way of covering up. Authenticity. Authenticity. I used to scream ferociously. Okay, so this line surprised me as a reader.

It captures her emotional honesty at finally understanding what went on with her friend. Right. Anytime I wanted. And then she pauses. It says, I, I, repetition, pause of memory, remembering the past. Yeah, she's trying to think about that.

She's trying to think what did happen, something happened, what was it that caused her friend this anxiety? Does she know? Even as an adult. She doesn't know. So we go back to the chorus, sweet tea in the summer. that beautiful tactile image cross my heart

won't tell no other okay notice that there's a change from cross your heart to cross my heart so she's lost track of the other person the promise belongs now only to the narrator herself right

right just like my memories of my wedding day you know are are only mine you know And those are the memories that are hard, you know, and the one sometimes you want to keep dearest. Though I can't recall your face, memory continues to fade. I still got love for you.

Pack your dolls and a sweater. Isn't that all that a child would need? Dolls and a sweater. I know. Why dolls? Companionship, symbol. Why a sweater? Warmth, love, comfort, right?

It's a symbol. It's all you need. All you need is companionship, warm, love. We'll move to India forever. This is like that fantasy like being a pirate. Right. Why India, it doesn't matter. It's a symbol.

It's not geography. Right, right, right. India is far, far away. Yeah. And they do crazy things, and they have interesting food and wonderful smells. And, you know, they're different and mythical. Yeah. You know, it's like a mythical destination.

Yeah. It kind of doesn't seem as a child any far off place. It doesn't seem real. Right. It's just a concept. And it's the concept of escape and a freedom, right? We're just going to go there together. Yeah, there's a great poem by Andrew Marvell, 17th century writer called To His Coy Mistress.

And he's talking to his girlfriend trying to get her to come along with. And he says, I would love you from the umber to the ganges. So the umber is in central England. Ganges is all the way in India. Yeah, yeah. The other side of the world, you know, that most distant land, that mythical place, passed down like folk songs. This is the third time it appears, solidifies the central theme.

Our love lasts so long. I actually felt a triumphal sense of emotional memory with that last one. I think I agree, too. Yeah, because. I hope so. Yeah, ending it with that line is like, it doesn't, none of it really matters because we know, like, this friendship that we had. Like, both of us probably remember, like, how safe and happy it was, you know. Yeah, and I'm recalling that now that I'm 30.

I'll recall it when I'm 60. And, you know, if it happens, I'll recall it when I'm 90. Yeah. Yeah. And we like, we just, I'm just always going to remember fondly these childhood memories with this one person. Yeah, it's like that emotional memory conquers all sense of chronologic time. Uh-huh. Right?

It just transcends. And love can transcend that. It doesn't matter. I don't need to document the memory. I don't need a picture of you. I don't even need to remember your face. I just need to remember the feelings we shared. And that's the end of a very lovely song.

So lovely. It really is. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I made a list of the different devices. the extended symbolism, the pastoral imagery that runs throughout, the use of dramatic irony that contrasts adult understanding versus childhood, innocence, you know, the escapeist metaphors,

the juxtaposition between wonderment and suffering, you know, swinging and hiding. That's kind of sad. It is, isn't it? Yeah. But there's a beauty at the end. You know, there's a beauty waiting. the memory at the end, you know, the fragmented narration that kind of mimics memory, the eye, I, you know, the hesitant fragmented idea.

I don't know. I just thought it was lovely, lovely stuff. That's what I hoped you would feel. Yeah. Want to hear my closing statement? I do. Okay. I'm going to do this.

I like this. I sat down and just like started writing, you know, what I felt about. So I say seven suggests that childhood is not merely a period of innocence, but a way of perceiving the world in which imagination, compassion, and emotional truth coexist. Where children often lack the vocabulary to understand suffering, they instinctively recognize pain and respond with unconditional love. The song proposes that memory does not preserve every factual detail. We may forget places, faces, events, but it does faithfully preserve the emotional significance of our early relationships. Like a folk song, love survives not because it remains unchanged, but because it continues to be remembered, to be retold, and to be carried forward. That's what love is.

Beautiful. Thank you very much. I like this. And if I can also add, you know, I'm constantly saying, I'm constantly telling you people, oh, it reminds me of this poet or that poet or something. It does remind me of Mary Oliver. Okay, I love Mary Oliver. I think she's amazing.

I mean, you know, I mean, of course, the fact that she won a National Book Award and a Pulitzer Prize might tell you that other people kind of like her a little too. It doesn't really matter what our opinions are. Yeah, it has that quiet, emotional. power. It has that simplicity of language, and yet the use of literary devices. And it has the pastoral references that Mary Oliver is kind of typical for. So, yeah, it made me want to reach up and grab my, I have a copy of her 1984 Pulitzer Prize winning collection. And, you know, when you're not feeling great or when you just want a pleasant afternoon, Mary Oliver, you can

take that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So what does it sound like? Okay, okay. So we are going to watch the lyric video. I keep struggling with how, I feel like there's like a hundred things I can show you right now. And this song, like, I don't know, I just love it so much.

So we are going to watch the lyric video. We are also going to watch at the ERA's Tour as we were going into the folklore era. and as Taylor was backstage, like, changing. So the stage kind of changes, and there's always, like, something going on. And as we go into the folklore era, she does not sing seven, but she does a spoken word.

Oh, does you really? Like of seven, so we're going to watch that. Okay. And then maybe that's it. There's also, obviously, your favorite long puddle. There is that version, but maybe we might save that, because I really want to want, like obviously you need to hear the original version,

and then I want you to hear the spoken word. Okay, great. Okay. We'll be back. Well, sorry I missed it. Yeah, the latter half of today's recording has been kind of low key. Yeah. I don't know.

It's just, it's a loveliness to touch on. It is, yeah. Yeah, this poem is the kind of thing that you would read and just stop and think about. Yeah, it just kind of sticks. It does, yeah. Yes. I liked it very much. Good. Yeah, anything else you want grade? Yeah, I mean, I guess I'll grade.

Okay. I just... You have thoughts on what you just heard? No, I mean, it was kind of fun hearing her read it. Like I said, I... You never know quite what somebody else is going to read their own poetry like. Yeah, and it's interesting with Taylor because we hear her seeing her poetry as we're going through it. but not very often do we hear her just speak it.

Yeah, just exploring that balance in the poem between nostalgia and grief is really interesting to me. And it does make you touch and reflect on your own life. And, I mean, you know, I've spent my life in education, right? I mean, from the moment I graduated from an undergraduate, I mean, my first job was teaching in a high school, and I taught, you know, history in English and Latin. Among other things, I taught Latin to eighth graders.

Oh, gosh. But, you know, having spent a lifetime as an educator with students, even in a graduate class, there's a wonderful dedication that occurs, and it makes you, you just have to be empathetic with their lives. And you have to know that in some way you're changing who they are and who they will be. Right. You know, and so when I read a poem like this, it does profoundly affect me. Yeah.

There you go. Good. Okay. Okay. I'll shut up. Seven from folklore. Okay. Lyrical strength.

Oh, gosh. Can I just give it 100? Can I do that? You're absolutely allowed to do that. Yeah. I really liked it. Okay. narrative and structure.

I love the four stanzas greatness. I liked the modulation back and forth between the the childhood, the voice of the childhood memory and almost the voice of the adult. We don't quite get to the voice of the adult, but yeah, 99. Okay, oh goodness.

Production and atmosphere. I mean, it's a lovely song, you know. I mean, I would listen to it again. I would come closer to reading it as a poem than I would listening to the song. But it's a lovely song, 94. Okay. Lur and literary references.

Yeah, that's got to be 100. She knew when to put, when to infuse the line with it, and she knew when to release the line for its own emotional power. Agreed, yeah. Right. And emotional impact. Oh, I'd say that's a 72. Yeah. No, every time I read it, I read it over and over and over again, every time I read it, it grew in its impact.

That's what happened to me. This song did not hit me first listen, like, even the first couple of months, I think. And then all of a sudden I was like, oh, my God, what am I listening to? You know, it like takes a second. So I'll give her 100 on that. Oh, my goodness. Okay, that gives us a 98.6. We're going to round that up to a 99.

Okay. It's right up there for me. Yeah. It's really good. It's almost as good as Peter for me. Yeah. Yeah, I think so too. Yeah. It's just loveliness. Yeah. Well, I did a good job picking this one for the hundredth. I was like, for the one year. Yeah, I was like, I just feel like we need like a perfect song and I was like, I don't know what to choose, but we got there. It's really good. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's, it's, it's. I would say it's a master work in just what I kind of said is when to use the device and when to relent from the device. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And I think the best poet's Mary Oliver know when to do that. Yeah. And this song reflects that. There are times, there have been times, Bluntary twice, where I thought that Taylor Swift was just showing off a little. Which is not a bad thing. Look what I can do. Right.

Yeah. She's got the poetic chops, you know, trot them out. But this one, she, you know, she worked us. Yeah, she knows when to pull back. Right. Yeah. Okay. All right.

That was a good one. Yeah, that was really fun. Nice choice. I feel better. I feel like I passed a test today. Like, I know what you're going to like. Yeah. Okay.

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and TikTok at Swifty and Scholar Pod. You can follow Uncle Jerry at Dr. Uncle Jerry on Instagram. You can follow me on Instagram at Angela Wyatt McDow and we will be back with something else next week. Hey, Coudon! You're an o'waso rapid on Titchie, you? Ben, Monsieur L dindon, I boat de

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