The Swiftie and The Scholar - The Reinterpretation of The Fate of Ophelia

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

We have officially entered our Showgirl era, and we’re kicking it off with The Fate of Ophelia. Uncle Jerry teaches us all about Ophelia’s role in Hamlet, one of the Ophelia paintings Taylor may have drawn inspiration from, and a couple of feminist critics’ takes on Ophelia. We then get into the song, Angela weaves in a few nuggets of Tay-lore, and they round it out by discussing the feminist issues with the track,  watching the music video and listening to the voice memo of the writing of the song. Works Cited:Hamlet – William Shakespeare – Affiliate LinkWhat are Foil Characters?Representing Ophelia: Women, Madness, and the Responsibilities of Feminist Criticism  – Elaine ShowalterHearing Ophelia: Gender and Tragic Discourse in "Hamlet" – Sandra K. FischerDesolation Row – Bob DylanThe Story of Ophelia – The TatePre-Raphaelite Women – Jan MarshDante Gabriel Rossetti – Ash RussellThe Essential Pre-Raphaelites – Lucinda Hawksley – Aff LinkThe Language of Flowers – Margaret Pickston – Aff LinkThe Country Diary of an Edwardian Lady – Edith Holden – Aff LinkThe King’s Two Bodies – Ernst Kantorowicz – Aff LinkFollow Us:⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠Angela’s Instagram⁠

Welcome to the Swifty and the Scholar, the podcast where we examine the lyrics, lore, and literary legacy of Taylor Swift. I am Angela McDowell the Swifty. And I am Dr. Jerry coach, the very confused scholar. How are you doing, Uncle Jerry? I am, you know, I'm doing really well, but I am trepidacious with fear today. Yeah, okay. But we're excited to be showgirls, yes? We're excited to be showgirls and excited to be doing what song?

The fate of Ophelia. Oh, man. Yeah. So I, you know, yes, we're going to do it. Okay, I have two things first before we start. Do it. One, I brought two vinyl. Oh, that's the back.

Oh, yeah. And this is the original cover. This is a variant. And one of these is for you, and you get to pick which one you want. Oh, really? Okay. There haven't been open yet, so there's all kinds of goodies inside. Okay. So you don't have to decide now, but one of these for you.

Oh, I think I'm going to want the one that kind of looks like the Ophelia painting. Yeah. I do. I like it. Yeah. So good. Yeah. Yeah, I like it. Okay, perfect.

Thank you. You're welcome. Okay, the other thing I want to bring up is the song reactions. Okay. We did try it on one episode, and I didn't post that. It was all too well. And like it just felt like a performance And like

The people that y'all are watching That are reactors are great at what they're doing They're listening for the first time They're hearing the lyrics for the first time And that's why they all like lose their minds And when we're listening we just sit here Like let's do a reenactment of how we listen to the songs And how you react to the songs

You ready? Okay I'm listening a song Oh I see she stresses that word Oh, her voice goes up on that, okay? Yeah, it's just, that's all it is. I'm taking notes, I'm writing comments, I'm listening for her to reinterpret the words through her vocalizations.

Yeah, and so it's just not, you're not missing anything. There's a million reaction channels. You can go watch all of those. Somebody did leave a really great comment that was like, this channel is more about analysis than it is, a reaction to anything. Yeah. And exactly.

So we're just going to keep doing that. If there's something exciting that happens while we're, while we're listening and it's like a, like a fun thing that just happens, something catches you off guard, like the bells in so long London. I put that in because it was exciting. When the bells happened, I went, oh, yeah. That was the biggest reaction, I guess.

Yes, by far. I'm going to lose my mind. Yeah. Yeah, we're just sitting here. And, okay, so I have something before we started. Okay. So I'm going to make a confession. I am tainted.

It's true. I'm tainted. So what happened is, first of all, Taylor Swift and her new release and her movie and the half a billion dollars she has made in the last two and a half weeks, has been all over the news. And secondly, I really hadn't, like, I haven't read all of our comments back. I do try to remain fairly separate because I'm the scholar and I really want to just do literary analysis. And Angela said after Maroon, I really need to look at some of the vampire comments.

So I started reading him. As a consequence, every time I open up my news feed now, I get a Taylor Swift thing along with the newsfeed. feed. And I know I control my thumbs but only partially. You know, it's like oh, there's someone commenting on something about Taylor's song we've done.

I want to listen and I hit it. I do. I'm tainted. So I did hear, I did read actually a couple of critiques based on Shakespeare about Ophelia that I want to address. Go for it.

But well, we'll talk about it while we talk about it. Okay, well, I'm excited. hear. Yeah, well, I mean, I thought that it was fair because it was something that I had already taken notes on and already been through. So I'm making excuses for myself now. But you also heard this in the in the movie. Well, I did. Yeah. So I'm doubly tainted. I've seen the movie. I've heard the song twice. Actually, twice. Yeah. Yeah. I've not heard it since, but I've heard it twice. Yeah. But yes, I'm just saying, I am no longer the independent style of who's merely reading this is poetry. I am now a reactionary scholar who is biting back.

Oh, no. Oh, no. Okay. Okay. Then, yeah, on that note, let's just, let's just get into it. I think we all know, like, I feel like you don't need a lot of information on this one because you've been here. I have. You've been part of this whole thing. But, yeah, this is the fate of Ophelia from The Life of a Showgirl from 2025. Okay. Two weeks ago, three weeks ago. This is this whole album is by written and produced by Taylor, Max Martin, and Shelbach. Max Martin is just the king of pop hits. He has like a Catrillion number one hits. Some of them are Taylor's.

And it was, I was like excited to hear them work together again, but also I was like, but where's Jack? You know? Jack is gone. But I do love, spoiler, I love the way this, I don't, I think I've said this already, but I love the way. but I love the way this album sounds. Like, I think it sounds great and, like, expensive and lush and a little different than anything we've heard from her before. So I am very happy with all of that. And on that note, take it away.

Okay, well, so I feel like I want to talk about the background as much as the lyrics, because, you know, usually I start with the lyrics and we go line by line, and I talk about the poeticism, talk about the literary devices and the rhythmic patterns and things like that. but we have this gigantic allusion to previous literature that is just hanging over everything. All of it, yes. So I feel like I need to talk about Ophelia. Yeah. So if you haven't read Hamlet or if it's been a while, I will say that I've taught Hamlet many times.

So, you know, I loved the moment in the movie when she said, I love Shakespeare and then she kind of laughs at himself like that's kind of a stupid thing to say but I find myself saying the same thing you know I mean who doesn't love Shakespeare well yeah he's the most often performed playwright in world literature the whole the whole history of the world so yes to say I love Shakespeare is kind of a minimizing thing um it so okay so ophelia is is an interesting character She's a minor character or she's a major character. She's a foil character.

So I guess we have to talk about foil characters. Okay, yes. In the play Hamlet, right? Hamlet is obviously the title character, primary character. It's also the name of his father, King Hamlet, who has died. He's been killed by his brother, Claudius, young Hamlet's uncle. You know, and so in the play, there are a number of what we call foil characters. And those are characters that parallel the main.

character, the protagonist in some particular way, and we're supposed to reflect on the way that the foil character parallels the protagonist. Okay. Okay. So, for example, there's a guy named Fort Embross. You may not have seen him if you watch the movie because he's written out of most of the movies. Oh, no. Poor guy.

Sorry. Yeah, sorry. But his father has also been killed. And rather than sitting around going, hmm, what should I do? How should I revenge my father's death? Fort Embross raises an army and attack. attacks the new king his uncle, right? And so he's a

foil character for Hamlet who sits around at wonders. Fordham Bross immediately takes charge, raises an army and gets after it. Just like gets into action. Right. There's another foil character Laertes, the brother of Ophelia, right? Laertes has just returned home from school in order to attend

the funeral. Hamlet, in fact, has been off at school, and he has just returned home from school to attend the funeral. You know, eventually Hamlet kills Laertes' Father, Polonius, and Lierites is faced with a choice of should he revenge his father's killer. Well, guess what?

Someone has killed Hamlet's father, and he is faced with a choice, should I avenge my father's killer? Okay. Okay, so you see how foil characters work. Uh-huh. Okay, so now we have Ophelia. Ophelia is obviously a young woman. She's in love with Hamlet or has had a liaison with Hamlet.

She's faced with breaking up with Hamlet, and she goes insane because of the pressures put on her. Interestingly enough in the play, Hamlet pretends to be insane. Okay, so Hamlet says, I'm going to pretend to be insane so I can have free reign of the court. I won't be challenged at court because people know I'm about half crazy anyway. They assume it's because of the grief of the loss of his father, and so he can investigate his father's death. So he pretends to be insane.

Ophelia really goes insane. Okay. Okay, so again, a foil character. Gotcha. Okay. A second thing to think about Ophelia is she is the nexus of what we call the Ophelia syndrome. Okay. That's a psychological term.

There's also a literal medical syndrome called the Ophelia syndrome that is not what we're talking about. Okay. Important distinction. Right. So psychologically, the Ophelia syndrome is a female who is embedded in patriarchal system. society and is so overwhelmed, controlled, abused by the patriarchy that she goes insane or she becomes suicidal or she kills herself or she kills someone else, generally a man. And, you know, that's named after Ophelia.

Okay. I mean, if you think about the number of men who oppress Ophelia, it's pretty daunting. Yeah. Right? Early in the play, Ophelia gets approached by her brother and he says, are you still seeing Hamlet? You shouldn't see Hamlet. He implies that they might have had sex. She says, no, no, no. If you look at the scene, you'll see that Laertes talks a lot, and Ophelia has one-line answers. And frequently, her one-line answers are questions. Like, what am I to do?

Oh, no. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So very controlling. Then her father, Polonius, comes in. He lectures Laertes, and then he turns to Ophi. Laertes leaves. He wants to get the heck out. out of there. And he turns to Ophelia and says, what is it that you've been talking about? And she says, you know, marry my lord about Hamlet. And he says, ah, Mary, be thought. That's exactly what I wanted to talk to you about. And then he lectures her about Hamlet and says he doesn't want her to see Hamlet again. Don't take any letters from him. And he implies that she is going to make him a fool, which in Renaissance terms means she's going to have illist sex or has already had sex with Hamlet.

She keeps saying, no, no, he's only given me words of love. And his response is, I, springes to catch woodcocks. So a springe is a trap and a woodcock is a little bird. Okay. But, I mean, come on, anytime you hear the word cock. Yeah, he implies that she

is laying a little trap to catch a woodcock. Okay. Okay. I'm with you. You know, we could even write a song about wood. We could. So here she is abused by Laertes, accused of sexual dalliance, abused by her father, accused of sexual dalliance. And then Hamlet comes in and tells her that, you know, they're no longer seeing each other. He acts crazy to her.

He sneaks into her a bedroom at one point with his pants all undone. Jesus. Yeah, he holds her at arm's length. He shakes. He stares at her. He walks out. Doesn't say a word. She thinks he is going crazy.

she goes and tells the king and the queen and her father, and they want her to spy on Hamlet for them. So now she's being manipulated by the king. Okay. Ultimately, Hamlet comes and she wants to give his things back to him, and he says, oh, I never gave you those things. And by the way, you shouldn't have children. Get thee to an unnery, right?

Very famous, get thee to an unnery. Yeah. She goes crazy. I mean, yeah, the gaslighting is crazy in that last. It is absolutely crazy. Ultimately, Hamlet is going to put on a play that he calls the Mousetrap in order to catch the killer of his father. And during the play, he acts with an antic disposition. Yeah, I'm quoting Shakespeare.

He puts on this antique disposition, and he runs, and he sits down at her knees, and he puts his head in her lap, and she says, oh, what are you doing? And he says, oh, it's a fair thing to put your head between a labor. these legs, you know, and I used the word head and a reference to her is certainly bawdy. All of the commenters would have thought that was a hilarious, dirty joke. But it is a dirty joke. And it's at the cost of abusing Ophelia. Right.

So what we see throughout the play is just this consistent abuse of Ophelia. She finally just springs, right? And so she goes off. what is interesting to me about the play and my new album is that everybody talks about the famous John Everett-Millet painting of Ophelia and certainly we need to talk about that but before she does that when she actually goes crazy

and people should have noted it but they don't I mean only Gertrude Hamlet's mother seems to notice that she's just crazy. She sings songs. Oh, okay. Oh, another. Okay. That should be something that attracts Ms. Swift, right?

Yeah. She not only sings songs as she's going crazy, but when she does fall into the water, and this is an ambiguous point, you know, she's been waving all these posies, and she is trying to hang them on some back, of a willow. Of course, a weeping willows, an image of sadness, often lost love. And she's hanging flowers on a weeping willow. And she falls into the water. And an observer says she made

no effort to get out. So the idea is, did her clothes and did the garlands wait her down, or is she committing suicide? And we really don't know. It's ambiguous. It's one of the delicious things about literature. Yeah. Which we've talked about a lot. Right. One note. Yeah.

Taylor also has a song called Willow. Oh, does she really? Yeah. Oh, that's fun. So now I feel like we need to talk about Willow. Talk about Willow. I don't do that. Yeah, I mean, certainly symbolic.

Interesting. Okay. As she is lying there drowning, guess what she's doing? Singing. She's singing. Okay. Yeah. So I love the connection that she is singing and that Taylor's

Swift as a singer. I think it is just highly appropriate that she uses Ophelia as an allusion to her life circumstances. Yeah. Okay. So now back to my being tainted. I did get on my news feed this article that said that she misappropriated Shakespeare. And I'm going, well, what exactly does that mean?

She misappropriated. Oh, you know, somebody called ice. I don't know. Yeah. It's like, what do we do here? The idea is that she takes this character and changes it for a happy ending. Gasp, I gasped. How dare she?

I know. Have you never seen a Shakespearean play where they change stuff? Also, Taylor has a song from literally 2008 called Love Story, where she compares her and a fictional boy to Romeo and Julia, and she also gives them a happy ending. Oh, there you go. And she talked about that, I think, in the movie. She, beforehand, I think she talked about how she doesn't like that that happens to Shakespeare's characters.

Oh, that's right. And so she wants to change what happens to them. Yeah. Well, guess what? People do that all the time. Right. I mean, look at Westside story. It's clearly not the Romeo and Juliet story in its complete and truest form.

I mean, Maria lives. I mean, Juliet doesn't live. Yeah. And everyone loves that. And everybody loves it. It seems all the more tragic that she's lying there holding. Tony's body. So I feel like I have to give you a little history lesson here. Shakespeare's dead by 161616. In 1642, Puritans revolt against the king, Charles First. And so 1642,

you've got the Civil War. It's pretty much over by 1647. They capture Charles. They behead Charles in 1649. And we have no king in England for 11 years. We have the Commonwealth. But in 1660, we have the restoration of the king. Okay. So the period after 1660 is called the restoration. Oh, okay. Okay. When the restoration of the king came back, they wanted happy plays.

The Puritans did not like theater. They thought that it was nasty and ungodly, and so they banned most theatrical performances. So when the restoration comes along after 1660, they're very happy to have plays again, and they want them fun. And so they take Shakespeare and they rewrite them for happy endings.

Oh, interesting. Yeah, for the ensuing 100 years, guys like John Dryden and Davenant and Garrick, all kinds of different writers would take Shakespearean tragedies and revise them and rewrite them for happier endings. For example, Romeo and Juliet. Right? In Romeo and Juliet, they both die in the tomb. Uh-huh.

Oh, no. Where did they change it to? Oh, they changed it to, you know, they've got this drama poison, right? Juliet drinks half of it. I'm sorry, Romeo drinks half of it. Juliet comes in and finds Romeo dead, and she drinks the other half and collapses dead on him. She doesn't take his dagger and stab him. Okay.

And then the families get together and say, oh, we were so stupid, we should have let these lovers marry. Oh, how could we have done this? But then the brother who sold them the poison shows up and he says, Good news, it was not poison. It was merely a sleeping dram. Wake them up. And they give them a shake. And Romeo and Juliet wake up and get married.

And live happily ever after. Exactly right. So to those haters out there who said, oh, she changed the ending. You know what? People have been changing the ending for hundreds of years. Like many hundreds, apparently. it's okay okay fair enough okay so yeah we got ophelia tragic character wonderful illusion i think really really fitting for her particular time in her life yeah um if you want to read more about

ophelia i've got a couple of articles for you oh of course okay yeah back in the 1980s elaine showalter who was a terrific feminist critic um she wrote an article which is considered a classic i think in 1987, 86 or 87, titled representing Ophelia, Women, Madness, and the Responsibilities of Feminist Criticism. Ooh, okay, I'll link that. Okay, yeah, it's greatness. It's actually in a collection of articles.

Okay. And it's in a book. And, yeah, you can order the book. It could be a little pricey, but you can also buy the article online, and it's not too pricey. I really like Sandra Fisher's Hearing Ophelia Gender and Tragic Discourse in Hamlet. I think they're both really good. Okay.

You know, it's where you get a good look at the way she talks, her discourse. Okay. And her limited discourse that's frequently posed in questions. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, really interesting analysis of what she is. I like Show Walter. Show Walter points out that people have always used Ophelia, that, you know, Desolation Row. Yeah, Bob Dylan uses Ophelia in one of the stanzas.

Oh, okay. Now Ophelia, she's neath the window. for her I feel so afraid. On her 22nd birthday, she's already an old maid. To her, death is quite romantic. She wears an iron vest. Ooh. Yeah.

It's really interesting the way people use Ophelia. I think that Show Walter would be interested in this song. Yeah. You know, because one of our points is that you can track this kind of historic use of the feminine. And I think this is yet one more really interesting use. uses of the feminine. Okay. Yeah, that's an interesting thought, that she's just one in a line of, like, artists who have

used Ophelia in a different way. Right. Yeah. She's not unique, but she certainly lends a new voice and a little bit new interpretation, especially because it's, you know, semi-autobiographical. So I like it. I mean, I like the use of Ophelia in this song. And to haters would say, oh, she's changing it, you know, go get a life someplace else.

You're actually allowed to do that. Shakespeare's dead. He won't say anything. Okay, that's super interesting. I love all that. Okay, now we have to talk about the painting. Okay. Okay, the painting. First of all, I should say, I love pre-Raphaelites. This is my book, Pre-Raphaelite Women.

Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's got all kinds of terrific paintings of pre-Raphaelite women. You see them frequently posed with red hair. and... Oh, and she had red hair in the... in the video. She, in one of her characters. Guess what?

Elizabeth Settle, who sat for Everett-Millays, had red hair, or at least a red wig. Yeah, you see these beautiful representations of women. This is all by Dante Gabriel Rousetti, who's not only a great poet. Yeah. Well, a really good poet. And a really good painter.

To downgrade. Yeah. Well, you know. There's something called the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood, which originally were seven artists who got together. And the idea of pre-Raphaelitism, I mean, I'm a huge fan. And I came to it actually secondhand. A guy named John Ruskin was a 19th century British writer

who wrote about Pre-Raphaelites. And he's got an essay, Pre-Raphaelites. And he also writes a very famous essay, Stones of Venice. But Ruskin defends a pre-Raphaelites. The idea of pre-Raphaelitism is that the lushness, the beauty, the detail of art reached its height during the early Renaissance. Okay. So Raphael might be the height, and so they wanted to paint as pre-Rafelites.

Gotcha, okay. Right, so Raphael, people like that. I was trying to figure out, like, I've heard you say, pre-Raphaelites a few times and I'm like so but were they called that at the time because how could they be something that they were pre but now I get it yeah because they look at Raphael as like the height of this sort of lush detailed work gotcha okay and so they wanted to emulate that period before Raphael that they saw was the purest element of the Renaissance make makes sense so so yeah their works are are filled with detail filled with symbolic meaning they're frequently highly

allegorical. You know, the question is, would Taylor Swift have run into them and did she know them well? Or is she just picking up on one painting by Ophelia? I don't know. We'll have to ask Ms. Swift ourselves. Any day now. Yeah. I mean, I would guess that she would.

It seems like it. Yeah. This painting is in the Tate Britain. The Tate Britain has more traditional and frequently 19th century works. And it is filled with pre-Raphaelite works. Okay. So she, you know, having been in London, I would wonder if she has been to the tape Britain. And she may actually have stood before this painting.

Maybe, yeah. Another thing she might be familiar was everybody goes to St. Paul's Cathedral. And St. Paul's has really one famous painting in it, and it's a pre-Raphaelite painting. Okay. So you can't go around London without seeing. Yeah, they're there. Right. not saying pre-raphilites.

So I guess I should have marked this. She's in here somewhere. Ophelia? Yeah, Ophelia. But I bet you can put a picture of her up. Yeah, yeah. People have been talking about the painting a lot. Yeah, these are the essential pre-Raphaelites.

Yeah, put a picture up. I will. And take a look at her. Do realize that to both pre-Raphaelites and to English culture, European culture, flowers are symbolic. Okay, so when you look at the painting, you will see, forget me nots. Oh, gee, I wonder why the painting would feature, forget me nots.

Interesting. Right. You'll see a very realistic image of a broken willow with new shoots rising out of it. So the willow is already a symbol of lost love, of sadness, and it's broken lying across the frame. You'll also see red flowers. Those are poppies, symbols of death. And around her neck, you'll see purple flowers. Those are violets.

They're symbols of promises, steadfastness, purity. Okay. Okay, so Ophelia made promises and kept them. She was steadfast. She was pure. Interesting. Right. So all those flowers you'll see in the painting.

And there's, two different songs. One song where Taylor mentions poppies and another where she mentions violets. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, see, you know, we've got to put some of these together. I know.

But I don't know that these things go together until you start talking. Ah. So, of course, I have books on these. Of course you do. So here's a little book, The Language of Flowers. So cute. You know, and it talks about, you know,

it has, it's sort of in handwritten. and it talks about the nature of the flowers and how they're symbolic. How old is this book? Oh, it's not that old. Oh, okay. It's actually a reprint. This one is the country diary of an Edwardian lady. So it's a little over 100 years old, and it too features, right?

Oh, my gosh. Handwritten elements with flowers and butterflies, and in some places, talks about the symbolic meaning that drives this kind of floral world. Love it. Yeah. So, you know, one of the things to remember is that in the play, while she's walking around crazy singing songs, Ophelia is handing out flowers and herbs. She hands out her rosemary, and she says, Rosemary, for remembrance. Okay.

So remembrance of her lost love, but also remembrance because in the next scene she's going to go die. Of her, yeah. Right. You know, when Malay was painting it, you know, he used his model. and he put her in a bathtub. And, I mean, you may have heard, you may have read that the water became cold, and he was heating it with these lamps,

and the lamps went out, and he just kept painting. Eventually, she became ill. She got a cold. But, yeah, he actually painted her in water. Huh. That does, like, really go along with the cover of the album. It really does, yes.

She's literally in this tub. Yeah. And then Malay went out, and he found a particular location by a stream, and that particular location has been discovered. Oh. Yeah. And he kind of set it up and painted that.

So we have images of modesty, steadfastness. We have images of death. We have, you know, images of, you know, kindness in the flowers of forget me not. A lot has been made in the painting of her pose that she has her hands uplifted and that she seems to be looking skyward. And so some art critics have said that she looks like a sceptive. saint or a martyr. So is she martyering herself to love? Yeah.

I think the important thing is she is lying there in this water, singing, dying at the same moment. Are there specifics about what she's singing described in the play? Yeah, in the play, some of them are actually bawdy songs. Okay. Yeah, so, I mean, she's been accused by all

kinds of people, by her father and her brother. Yeah. Of playing the bawd with this guy. Yeah, so it's like, okay, that's what you want me to be here, I'll be it. All right, I'll just sing these songs for you and you catch them. Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, go back and take a look at the play, take a look at the artwork, and then think about the poem, and we're done. With part one. Oh, wait, we haven't talked about the poem itself. I'm sorry, that was a lot. That was good. I mean, I think that's all, like, helpful to pull a lot of different things together in not only this song, but in more of Taylor's.

work as well. You know, I really am fascinated. I have said jokingly, you know, I'd like to ask Taylor Swift about this. I would, in real earnestness, like to have a conversation with her. And I'd like to say, so what did you think about Ophelia and how were you using her? How conscious were you of manipulating the image from the play? You know, and she does quote the play in the poem. Yes. You know, so other people have found this. Yes. Yeah, it's kind of a famous quote. So I'm not surprised.

Okay, shall we talk about the poem? Sure. Let's do it. Okay. I feel like I've talked a lot. That's okay. It's good. We all need this lesson.

Okay. Maybe I shouldn't speak for everyone, but. So poetically, I'm going to say that I was interested because for me, this is one of the most strictly rhymed and metered poems that I've seen her write. And I would assume that is homage to him. Hamlet, Shakespeare? Maybe, or it may be the influence of our co-writers. Okay. Yeah, I don't know.

Oh, like very strictly pop, very, like, it just follows a formula almost. So it fits into the music just right. You know, I heard you calling on the megaphone, you know, just count the syllables. I heard you calling on the megaphone. Ten syllables. Every other syllable is stressed. Iambic pentameter. That is perfect, iambic pentameter.

You want to see me all alone. That's eight. all IAM, so that's Iambic tetrameter. Okay. Right, so four IAMs in the second line. As legend has it, you are quite the pie row.

It's okay in Iambic pentameter to add an extra syllable from time to time. That's okay. So back to Iambic metameter, you light the match to watch it blow. Okay. So she has alternating lines of Iambic pentameter and Iambic tetrameter, and it's rhymed

AABB, Megaphone, alone, pyro, blow. And then you go to the pre-chorus, me, melancholy. And then myself and I lit up sky. Right. So C, C, D, D. So she's working with rhyme couplets. She's working with alternating lines of ionic pentameter and I'm tetrameter.

You know, it's very scanable, very consistent metrically in the first couple of stances. Yeah. Um, and then the lines themselves. So I heard you calling on a megaphone. I'm going to assume that, you know, she's having a little play on words here. I heard you calling on the phone. So I think it's even more metaphorical than that. Okay.

Because I think this is her calling. So the reason her and Travis are together. I assume you don't know this part. I do not know. So, you know, he and his brother have a podcast. I couldn't remember that it was actually Travis. have us until after our first episode. Sorry, people.

Ask me about poetry. Yeah. This is why I'm here for the less important stuff. So he and his brother have a podcast. And during the Erez tour, Travis called out that whenever she was in Kansas City, they never met before or anything. And he called out, like, I made this French. chip bracelet with my number on it and I was trying to give it to her but nobody would let me in

to see her and then after the show he like called that out on the podcast and he was like I just was trying to meet her and she nobody would let me get near her and so he like literally like called her out on a podcast that like millions of people listen to okay cool and then people that he knows eventually was like hey you need to like this guy is actually good guy like you should reach out to him so if we do that what's the likelihood that taylor swift might call us um probably pretty low but but taylor we want to talk shakespeare yeah well i assumed it was kind of a play on words with phone megaphone yeah but also it's a cheerleader image uh right and the the football imagery is pretty consistent through the poem yeah so i also assumed it was cheerleader i didn't know

the story about the podcast and the number. Yeah. So she like, he like literally called her and was like, hey, I'm trying to like get to know you. Want to see you all alone. Okay, so she calls him let's see. Oh, you want to see me all alone. Okay, literal. Yeah. As legend has it, you're quite the pyro.

Okay, so pyro, I wonder if it was a metaphor for Firestarter, lover, but also I wondered if it was a play on words with the word, pro. Oh, okay. Because he's a pro.

Yeah. So I heard you quite the pro. Yeah, okay, that's interesting. Yeah, the pyro, this, this confused me at first. The fire imagery. But then as I thought about it more, I'm like, the fire and the water, she was, she says later she was drowning. Oh, yeah.

And so in this, like, I feel like normally the water is like a good thing. it washes you or it's like cleansing. But I feel like in this song, the water is the bad thing. The water is the thing that's killing you. And the fire is the thing that comes and lights up your life. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Well, and the fire imagery certainly works because the next line is you like the match to watch it blow.

So it explodes away. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I wondered about watch it because it is a general reference pronoun. There's no noun and a seat. And I was wondering what it is. Right. What is it?

Yeah. I was just assuming it was the match, but it could be anything, huh? Yeah, you like the match to watch it blow. Yeah. Interesting. Could be the match. Yeah. The pre-chorus.

And if you'd never come from me, I might have drowned in the melancholy. No. Drown to the melancholy, both a hyperbole. and a metaphor, drowning in melancholy, you don't literally drown, you metaphorically drown. And, of course, just as Hamlet, you know, just as Ophelia and Hamlet drowns. Yeah. So I also think the melancholy is a callback to a song that she has on Midnights called Lavender Hays. Okay.

And that at the beginning is talking about what we assume is her long-term relationship that she was in before this. And she says, you don't really, you don't really read into my melancholia. And so I think it's just, she's, I feel like she feels like she's just been like languishing for years and years. And then he comes along and she's like, oh, actually life can be fun. Yeah. Oh, she's changing Ophelia. it's okay she says that

I swore my loyalty to meet myself and I of course you remember violets are symbols of steadfastness and loyalty which we see in the painting and previously she had only had herself to rely on I'm guessing but now she has someone else because he comes in and he lights up her sky

yeah I have another bit of lore for you on this too so those same Kansas City shows on the Aeros Tour in the summer of 2023. She always used to, in the days before Trump, used to have this crazy Fourth of July party at her house in Rhode Island, and they were always like fun, it was like all her friends, and there were like fun pictures from it. They call it like Tamerica, very silly. We hadn't seen her do that in a while, but then that year, she posted this photo.

I took a screenshot for you With some of her friends And said Happy belated Independence Day From your local neighborhood independent girlies See you tonight, Kansas City So these are like all single girls So she's like basically saying like

I'm independent girlie on Independence Day And this is like the weekend That Travis showed up at her show And then like the next week called her out from the megaphone Oh is that right? Yeah Oh so this is all the single ladies Yes All the single ladies?

Yeah. So that's what I think I swore my loyalty to me, myself, and I. That's why I think she's kind of alluding to there, which I think is kind of fun. You know, okay, so I guess I should say, you know, you've been giving me a lot of biographical stuff. This poem, although it's very consistently rhythmically, rhythmical and rhymed, it feels a whole lot more autobiographical in this first section. Mm-hmm. Right?

Yeah. That may be something that I was going to say, but I'll say now. And that is, you know, when she starts verse two, the eldest daughter, I think she starts a narrative. She becomes a story tale. I agree. Yeah. Right. So up to now, it's kind of her life.

Because we go to the chorus. Yes. All that time, I sat alone in my tower. Okay, well, you know, I mean, a tower is a very common trope. It's a metaphor. Tower is a symbol of isolation, right? It's a fairy tale trope. Yeah, that's what I pictured, like Rapunzel.

Sure, Rapunzel's in a tower. You know, you remember the Walt Disney version of Cinderella. Cinderella's in this. She's in an attic room that looks like a tower. Yeah. If you Google towers and folk tales, you'll find dozens of people, especially women who are trapped in towers. Towers are symbols.

Okay, yeah. They are cylindrical. erect edifices, and women are trapped at the very tip. Okay. If you remember, Rapunzel, as a matter of fact, the sole access to the tower is through the little hole at the top. So a tower could be a symbol of being trapped in a patriarchal world. Okay.

I'm just saying without going any farther than that. We got you. But you notice she throws the hair down around the face of them. Oh, my gosh. All right, then. And we moved to the next line. You were just honing your powers. So he was a pro.

He was working on his football skills. I think that's literal. Yeah, it could be, yeah. Yeah. I don't think that it's, you know, he's a Superman or anything. Yeah. I think it's literal. And he dug her out of a grave, late one night dug her out of a grave.

And here we have another metaphor and another allusion to, Hamlet. In Hamlet, Act 5, scene one, Hamlet goes down to the graveyard, and there's a grave digger, he's digging a grave. Hamlin doesn't know, but it's for Ophelia. Oh. Right. And that's the very famous scene where he picks up a skull. He says, hey, who was this? And he says, oh, that used to be the court jester. And he said, oh,

I used to know him, Yorick, you know. And so he says, alas, Yorick, I knew him, Horatio. You know, and he talks about the skull. He talks about the nature of death. He says, here hung those lips that I kissed so often, you know. And he's contemplating the nature of death. And then a funeral procession comes by in its Ophelia's body. Okay. And they drop Ophelia in the grave, and her brother, Laertes, says, I need to hold you in my arms one last time and he jumps into the grave to hold his sister. Well, that's really sweet, buddy. Weren't you the one that kind of called her a hoe back in the first act?

You made her crazy, bro. I know. And then Hamlet jumps up. Hamlet runs up and says, Oh, get out of there. He says, I loved her 40 times more than you did. Yes, he literally says that. And then they start fighting.

And so they're fighting over her grave. And so, you know, he proclaims his love for her. at last when she's dead. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you can see the really tragic element of the Ophelia syndrome, and you can see how incredibly tragic a figure Ophelia is, and you don't want to meet that fate.

No. You don't want to have your brother finally say, I love you beyond words, sister. I want to hold you one more time. After you're already dead. After you're dead. And your lover to jump up and say, I love her 40 times more than you do. And so it suddenly becomes this wrestling man. over who loved the most.

Still becomes all about the men. It is. It's all about the men. It's not about love. It's about possessing her. The power. Right. I also thought of a lyric parallel for this one,

for you dug me out of my grave, like a Taylor lyric parallel from So Long London, when she's talking about two graves, one gun. Oh, that's cool. I have not thought about that. Yeah. Oh, that's good. Yeah, she was in that grave.

Okay, so when we finally finish all 200 and how many songs? Yeah, I don't know, like 250 or something crazy. We'll go back through and we'll look at all our notes. Yeah, and we can finally put it all together. We'll put together the comparative dictionary of Taylor Swift's catalog. Yeah. Okay. That sounds really fun.

Can I quit my job and we do that right now? Tell your friends that we need subscribers. Please help me quit my job. job? Okay, so yeah, they jump in the grave, they tussle over her. He saved her heart from the fate of Ophelia. And it's the first time at the end of that full chorus that we hear in the title of this law. And so it's kind of a lovely thing. She didn't want to be that sad, melancholic woman who is abused and rejected by the entire patriarchy of controllers. in her life until it winds up that she's dead.

And then they miss her and remember how much they love her. Of course. And, you know, I'm really wondering if she's mixing up images here both of her love relationships, but also of, you know, since I, you have told me there were problems with her first six albums and problems with her record company, you know, she's mixing up images of that patriarchy as well. I'm pretty convinced that she's talking about more than just... Just love.

Yeah. I think a lot of her songs are probably like that where they're inspired by one thing and then they mean many things, you know? And yeah, I mean, I feel like it could be very much about her music. It could be about fans, like coming to the Eros tour because we know this was like this album was written about her life offstage at the Erez tour where she was like, oh, this is like this amazing magical thing. that these people are doing for me.

You know, like, I think it could be all of those things. Yeah, I think so. I think that that's the combined patriarchy that she's struggling with. And, you know, forgive me for being a feminist, I think it's the combined patriarchy that all women have to go with. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

So, yeah, I'm in touch with my feminine self. We know. We know. Okay. Then you get the post chorus. Yes. I do think it's funny. We have a pre-corrhosis.

a chorus in a post-guise. I thought they were just verses and choruses and bridges, but apparently there's more. So we have a post-chorus. Keep it 100 on the land. Okay, so 100 is a symbol of completion. It's also 100 yards on the football field. Land, see, and sky. Well, you know, he's a blocker and a pass catcher.

Oh, okay. So land and sky. Yeah, I wondered if that had something to do if that was something from Hamlet. Because I couldn't quite put that together. Yeah, no, I mean, I don't... Not really? I don't think so. I mean, they do mention the sea.

Obviously, Rosencrantz and Gillingston are set on a boat and set off, but there's not a lot of sky. Yeah, I didn't. I couldn't figure that out. I wondered if it was maybe about them, you know, they traveled so much while she was on her, like, world tour. And they were on boats and trains or planes and cars and stuff. So I wondered if it was something to do with that or if it was just a fun way to... It was just a fun lyric. Yeah.

Well, and it is an idiom, you know, to say Lansi's guy. Yeah. But I did think, you know, football imagery, especially with the 100. Yeah, for sure. You pledge allegiance to your hands. Well, again, he's a catching. He catches the ball, yeah. To his team, to his vibe, which apparently she likes.

Yeah. And, you know, the pledging allegiance, you know, I mean, you think of a game beginning with the Star Spangled Banner. Yeah. But also, you know, hands. So, you know, Hamlet says she, Ophelia mentions at one time the promises that he made. Okay. You know, that he pledged allegiance. Okay.

Right. And he didn't keep that promise. Yeah. Well, until she was dead. Yeah. And so she doesn't want to fall into the fate of Ophelia. You sang that, that they were like, no, we love you after she was dead. There's another lyric.

And I can't even think of what song it's in right now. But she says, I always thought I must look better in the rear view. Oh, really? Like, it's always better, like, after it's over type thing. And that kind of makes me think of that. Yeah. And then it's about the sleepless nights you've been dreaming of the fate of Ophelia. So she worries that this was going to be her fate, that she was going to be used and abused and then cut loose only to be buried.

then we have verse two and an interesting turn in the song I like this I really do I like it because it turns from about her to about the narrative of Ophelia and now she becomes a storyteller

the eldest daughter of a nobleman Ophelia lived in fantasy but love was a cold bed full of scorpions the venom stole her sanity What a beautiful image. I mean, a terrifying image. It's terrifying, beautiful. And you know, it sounds beautiful because of the rhythmic element.

Okay. Right? Yeah. The eldest daughter of a noble man. Okay. It's perfect iambic pentameter. Ophelia lived in fantasy, right? Iambic tetrameter, but love was a cold bed full of scorpion.

Oh, she did it again. Yeah. And the venom sold her sanity. Right. So again, we're back to alternating lines of iambic pentameter and iambic tetrameter. Very rhythmical, very tight. Yeah. I love it. Yeah.

Right. I mean, to me, this is really nice poetry. Yeah. I think this one, and I know you've only heard the song twice, which usually you've never heard them. But I think this part is super fun to sing, too. Well, you know, I think one of the reasons is because of the rhythmic, oh, it's in the car. I mean, anywhere, but that's kind of how I judge a song is like how. And I have

afterwards we'll get in the car Yeah You start around We can sing together Yeah Yeah we should film that And then And finally you would see our

Reactions Wait that could be our next thing To put out there Yeah How they sound in the car Yeah how do we sound in the car So yeah She's the noble woman

And she lived in a fantasy And if you think about it You know it is a kind of fantasy I mean she is after all The consort Of the son of the king and the king has just died and the assumption would be that he would become the new king

and she would be his wife with the queen. Kind of a fantasy. And then, you know, I guess we're going to watch the video afterwards just so I can have a third view. Yeah. But I do remember very clearly when she's singing this part she's on that ship.

And it looks like a fantasy until she falls off into the water. Yeah, and drowns. Right, and drowns. So we have this foreshadowing element. But, you know, also we had this kind of fantastic element where she's sailing free and this, you know, beautiful outfit and everything seems great until she goes overboard. Yeah. Yeah.

So I don't know. I just, I really like it. Is a cold bed full of scorpions? Is that pulled from Hamlet or did she make that up? I think, well, the bed of scorpions is a cliched. You can look that up. Oh, okay. Yeah.

But also, I do think that you see the poison in scorpions and the venom that stole her sanity in the play Hamlet. How did the old king Hamlet die? Someone poured poison in his ear. Oh, in his ear? Good grief. Right. Okay. So in the middle of the play, when Hamlet is trying to catch, you know, the plays, the thing, we're in to catch the conscience of the king.

and he has these actors perform the death of a king by pouring poison in his ear. He wants to see his uncle's reaction to see if he can catch the contents of the king that he was the murderer. So yeah, poison plays a part of the play. I think poison shows up in the song because she's a pretty smart lady.

Yeah, I mean, I really do want to compliment her for using a variety of elements of the plague. Yeah, yeah. so the poison comes in. And if you'd never come from me, I might have lingered in purgatory. Pergatory is someplace you would linger if you committed suicide

or if you died of your own volition, you know, just of not caring. You know, they would have believed in purgatory. Catholics still believe in purgatory. Yeah. You wrap around me like a chain, a crown, a vine. So in the play, Ophelia is making these little vines.

She has a vine of violets around her neck when she dies. You know, there, her promise her love for Hamlet is like a chain that lays her down. And she would have worn a crown. Yeah, if she had been the queen. If she had been the queen. Okay. Right. But none of that comes to fruition because she dies.

Pulling her into the fire. So he is wrapping around with a different kind of. chain, crown, vine, right? Our friend Travis comes along. And then we reiterate the chorus, right? All that time, I sat alone in my tower. You were honing your powers. Now I see it.

Late one night you dug me out of my grave. Save me from the fate of Ophelia. Save her heart. Right. In the post chorus, we have pretty much the same thing, right? Yep, it's exactly the same. And then, let's say we have the bridge. The bridge.

It's locked inside my memory, and only you possess the key. Okay, that is a quote from Hamlet Act 1, scene three. You remember when she is talking with Laertes the first time, and Laertes says, you know, have you been a little ho? What's going on with you in Hamlet? And you shouldn't mess around him because I have it on good authority that he's not going to be the king, that Claudius is going to stay the king, and Hamlet is going to get out of here. You know, so he is warning her. And after his father talks with Laertes, as Laertes is leaving,

he turns to his sister again and says this again. You know, remember what I have told you. And she says, it's in my memory locked, and you yourself have that key. Okay. So, She's acknowledging that, you know, dominance of the patriarchy again, that oppression of the masculine under which she is eventually going to go crazy. Except for our friend Taylor Swift, you know, for Taylor Swift, she's not locking away the words of laertes that oppressor. She's locking away the love of Travis Kelsey. That's kind of sweet.

I don't know if the use of that particular quote works for me. Okay. Because it's kind of weird that she would take a quote from a guy who is oppressive and turn it around to a guy who is not. Maybe that's the theme of the poem. I mean, maybe so. Maybe it's like, okay, well, I actually have two things to say about this. So Tis locked inside my memory and only you possess the key. She has a song off of tortured poets.

Oh, okay. That is called I hate it here. Oh. And it's like about how her real life is kind of miserable. And so she goes into her mind a lot. And she has these like, she says like the secret gardens in my mind. And that's where I keep all of my like romantic thoughts and stuff because this isn't going to be real life for me. So I just keep them all in here.

And she says that they're like no one has the key. Oh. These are just for me. And so I'm wondering if she's like, oh, actually this person came along and like I, he does actually have the key to like unlock this inner world and like make it real life for me. Right. And and in fact he's he's trustworthy of keeping that key. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. The other thing I have about that is do you know that 13. is a number in Taylor's, like, an important number in Taylor's world. It seems to me like you have told me this before. Although I remember dates and names, that may be one that's left my memory. Not an important one for you. With your key. So she's like, her birthday is on the 13th, and she's made 13.

Oh, you've told me this before. Yeah, she's made 13 like a whole thing. She, like, is obsessed. And she loves numbers. She loves, like, incorporating numerology into. all of her things. And so people were pointing out what you just said that this is seen, Hamlet Act 1, Scene 3. Oh, cute. And she pulled in like 13. And then the deceived, which we haven't got to, no longer drowning and deceived, when she was says, when Ophelia says,

I was the more deceived, that's from Act 3, Scene 1. Oh, cute. So it's just like flipped. So inverting. So I don't, I don't know what any of that means for real, but, you know, it's just funny things that Swiftie find. Swift is fine. It could be so. Yeah. Gosh, I don't know. Yeah, I know. I got the drowning and deceived and I was the more deceived.

When she's handing stuff back to Hamlet and Hamlet says, oh, I never gave those to you. I never said that. And she says, well, I was the more deceived. Apparently, though, he loves her 40 times as much as a brother. 40 times as much. Yeah, later on. Yeah, drowning and deceived. It's allusioned to Hamlet, you know, a metaphor for drowning and.

She's deceived by past relationships. Yeah. And it's locked in her memory, she says again, and all the more deceived. So she likes it so much, she repeats it. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's okay. It works for me. Yeah.

And then really the rest of the poem is kind of... Yeah, it's all the same that we've heard before, yeah. Okay. All right. Tell me your thoughts. Okay. Overarching comment. Yes.

Okay, so just to be honest, Angela and I have talked about this. I do have a little bit of a problem with the use of a character who is oppressed by men, oppressed by the patriarchy, you know, and who is, who finds no rescue. But in her life, she finds rescue in the arms of her life. of another man, right? And so, you know, as a feminist reader, I think, I would wonder what Elaine Showalter would have to say about. She's like, wait, this is red flags. Yeah. And I mentioned to Angela, it felt a little bit like pretty woman, you know, where she's a prostitute on the streets, but a millionaire comes by and rescues her and they fall in love. And, you know, it's a very anti-feminist

movie until right at the end and they try to forgive themselves because he says, you know, what does the fairy princess do after he rescues you? And she says, she rescues him right back. Yeah. Oh, that's so sweet. It's just a perfect love story. It does bother me a little bit that she doesn't have the personal agency to be her own rescuer. Mm-hmm. Your response, please. Yes. Okay. So I am going to admit. that that did, that was the first thing that popped out at me as well.

I did, that was the first thing that I thought, like, okay, this is a person that, a character that has been oppressed by the very society that we sort of still live in today. But I do think that there is a distinction in her saying, you saved my heart from the fate of Ophelia. I think that she's not saying you saved my whole life. She's not saying, um, I had nothing and then you came along and now I have everything. And now my life is worth living. I think she's literally saying like my heart, my love life.

The, I, she, she has been writing these songs for 20 years about like wanting to find a real love. And I think specifically, she is talking specifically about that one area of her life. Like she still has her career. She's not quitting. She still has all of her things, all of her art, all of her work. And it's just the one, this, Travis saved this one part of her. Okay. So like I said, we talked about this.

And when Angela said that, I really do wish you could have seen my reaction. Oh my gosh. That makes real sense to me that she can bifurcate her notion of self. I love that. I think that's, I'm going to use the word brilliant. Oh, no. Yeah, well, okay, so I hunted around because I knew I had read this. So I know you're going to think I'm crazy, but this book is, this book is titled the King's Two Bodies.

And it's actually a study of medieval political theology. Which is what we all read on our Sunday mornings. I know. I know you all get up and say, hey, give me that slim volume. But it's all about how in medieval theology and even Renaissance theology, the idea of a king is that he has two different selves. One of them is the human self, but one of them is the divinely appointed self. You know, that a king is just a guy who's lucky enough to wear the crown, but also a king is a God-chosen ruler of people. And that's one of the reasons why you can't depose kings. It's like in the Bible when the Israelites want a king, and God says, oh, no, you don't.

And they say, oh, yes, we do. And they say, no, you don't. And they say, but the Philistines have won. And we do. God says, okay, but I choose him. And ever afterwards, the political theology is that God chooses kings, and you can't depose them because of that. And I don't know, I loved the idea of the parallelism of the self,

where, you know, she's got a public life, she's got a personal life, she has friends, she has a career, she's got money and possessions and all those other things. It's this area of her life that is still a vacant, it's still a vacuum. And, you know, that he fills that part, which is her romantic self. So, yeah, I think that's really good. Yeah, and I mean, I have no idea. Like, you know, as we've talked about before, like, none of us know anything. But that's just kind of how I, once I dug into it a little more, is kind of like, oh, like, she's, because also in the song Elizabeth Taylor on this same album, she talks, she says, how do you, what do you get for the girl who has everything and nothing all at once?

And I think she is saying, like, I know I have everything. Like, I know I have this, like, amazing career and all this art and I am a complete person, but something about it is still lacking, you know? Right. Yeah. Well, and I liked that, you know, when you explain that. Yeah. Like, I don't think it's anti-feminist to be like, I like this man and I'm going to marry him. Right. You know? Yeah, I agree completely. Yeah, so I think it really, it helped me. Yeah.

So I appreciate that. You know, that interpretation, I think is kind of fun, really nice. You know, and one thing to think about is the artist doesn't always know why he or, she writes, says, draws, plays what they do. You know, you had those moments in your life when you say something in a conversation and then afterwards you think, why did I say that I should never have said that? Literally every day am I. You know, sometimes we do things we're not, we ourselves don't even understand our own

subconscious mind and manner of expression. I mean, it's funny the number of times when people will, ask a writer, you know, why did you write this part? And the writer will say, well, I don't remember that. Or they'll give a response and it will be a different response than they gave in another interview five years before. You know, so the fact is sometimes they don't even know. Yeah, the art is like it's like it comes through you almost and then it probably changes with you. Even the artist, it changes with you as time goes on. Yeah. So, yeah, and the appreciation of the song would change the more times you hear it.

So I'm expecting the more times I hear the song, my appreciation may yet change again. I think it's very fun. Okay. You have more thoughts? I have one more. Okay. You know, the more I started thinking about the fate of Ophelia and the rescue from that fate of death, the more I started thinking about the album as a whole.

Okay. And I think that may be a theme in the album. I think I'd have to go through all the songs and all the lyrics. I've only gone through a couple of the songs with their lyrics. But it does seem to be a fairly consistent element in the album. Yeah, I think I agree. I'm anxious to see some of the other songs. Yeah, we can keep that conversation going as we do more of these.

Sounds good. Yeah, but I agree. I think that this is the album opener and the lead single, and I think it does a good job of like, maybe telling this the whole story and then as the album goes on we get more bits of the story yeah yeah sounds good okay you're ready to listen let's hear it again okay maybe let's just watch the music video let's just do that okay okay we'll be right back thoughts okay so after watching the video again I think this is about vampire oh my gosh

Okay, okay. Okay, first of all, the video opens with her in this white dress with a brocade top. I don't even know what brocade means, but, you know, whatever. So what I do know is that Malay was very proud of the dress he bought the model. Okay. So he bought this white antique dress. Okay. Yeah, that he thought like shone, shined in the water.

Okay. And the dress she wears is somewhat similar. to the dress and the painting. Yeah. I think that's kind of fun. Yeah. And then when she says she's all alone, like if you get the, if you watch a video and you hold the words up like I did. Yeah.

She says she's all alone and they move that landscape portrait in front of her. And in the portrait, you've got this vast landscape and she's all alone. Just her, yeah? Yeah, that's clever. Yeah, that is clever. I guess I didn't notice that on just watching quickly. And then when she's singing about lighting up the sky, What's the setting?

She's in a makeup room with lights all around. Right? So literally lighted up the sky. And then when she keeps it 100 on the land, the sea, the sky, the image breaks into kaleidoscope. So everywhere, right? And so you've got this multiple image. You just see all of the things. Yeah.

That's very cool. So yes, this is all I do is I sit here and take notes while we're watching. And I mean, I look up, I take notes. And then her voice changes when she goes to verse two. Not only is there changed poetically from more about her to the narrative of Ophelia. So you're almost like a third person narrator. But her voice changes. And, you know, she's got the, she actually rolls the chimes.

Like she's a kind of. Yeah, she's like. And there's a scene change, the voice change. And you know how in movies when they do the chime, there's usually a wipe or a scene change. So that's exactly what happens. And throughout the fantasy, you saw the mermaids in the water, which is a fantasy. She's fighting men, right? There are nothing but men on the ship, and she pulls a sword, and she's fighting all of them before she finally drops into the water.

Okay, so that's like literally the story. Literally. That one scene is the story. Man after man after man that she has to confront and finally she just drops into the water. Yeah. Interesting. And then when she's sat alone on her tower, you're in the life-saving thing. And obviously the lifesaver, duh. I don't have to explain that, right?

Yeah, we talked about that last, when we talked about the movie. But you realize she's at the top of a tower, right? Yeah. And she's coming down out of the tower. You know, and then the second time she goes back to By land and air and sea You see water displays behind her So it's literally land, air, and sea

Yeah Yeah And then the voice goes back to the When she hits the bridge Tis locked inside my memory She goes back to that same narrative voice She used at the top of verse two So when she goes into like the actual storytelling of Hamlet

That's right She changes When she dives back into the lines from Hamlet, she changes back to the narrative voice. Interesting. Yeah. It's pretty smart. Yeah, I like it. It is pretty smart.

It's very intentional storytelling. Yeah. And telling stories through images. Yeah. And the way that the story is told via showgirls. She's just one in a line of many showgirls, starting back from the story. the models who sat for paintings. Just one in a line of Ophelia's.

Yeah. And happily, this Ophelia seems to have found a different fate. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Okay. So this is like a voice memo of them in the writing room trying to figure out the rhythm. Okay.

Okay. So let's listen to this. Okay. I forgot about the voice memo. Sorry. You know, it was interesting to listen to. Yeah. Because they were trying to get to the rhythm.

this all that time. Yes. Do do, do. But they were just struggling to get there. But you know, one of the things that I wondered about that I didn't say while we were just chatting about it before is Ophelia, you know, I wondered if it was a run on of I feel you. Oh. And in the lyrics that she was making up, she says, I feel you.

Yeah. Interesting. But it's not in the song. No, but you just put. picked up on that it's like the same it didn't make it into the song funny i wonder if she thought that was just too yeah a little on the nose or something yeah too cute um and as i was looking at this i remembered um it's not hamlet that says a bed of scorpions it's macbeth oh macbeth says oh my mind is a bed of scorpions okay so she's pulling an other i'm wondering about that other shakespeare too

How many Shakespearean plays have you read, lady? Interesting. Yeah, I want to know. You know, I mean, of course, there's also a novel of Beto Scorpions, but it's from Macbeth, I think. I mean, we can look it up. Yeah. You guys correct me, but. Yeah, you let us know.

Yeah, I think that's true. That's interesting. That's Macbeth. Well, okay, shall we evaluate? Yes. Okay. So, of our five criteria, the first is lyrical. strength. Okay, love the rhyme, love the metrics, love the change in verse two. I'm going to say this is

just, I know, you sound like I'm pandering. Oh, no. I know. I'm going to say it's 100. What? I'm just going to slap it down and say, I know there have been some criticism of the song because of my dang news feed, but I don't care. I think that this is very strongly written. Oh my gosh, I can't. wait for the haters to watch this. The haters aren't going to watch this. You know what? Yeah. Don't even bother people. Okay. The only other thing that has gotten a hundred I would like to point out is all too well, 10-minute version. Okay. Narrative and structure. Yeah, I love the break between verse 1 and verse 2, you know, that she starts telling her own story, but that she goes back to Ophelia's story and you can tell it because of the vocal change. So, yeah,

That's very good, very nice, 97. Okay. Production and atmosphere. Oh, am I talking about the music video or am I going to talk? Yeah, sure, why not? I love the music video. Yeah, me too. I think that's probably her best one yet.

Is it? Yeah, I think it's just like very fun and very well put together. Yeah, let's go ahead and slap a 99. Oh, yeah, I would much that. Law and literary references. Oh, wow. This one's chalk full. Oh, she changes Shakespeare.

I can't deal with it. She has to get a 55 for this. I know. Because Ophelia lived. Yeah. No, I'm very happy. I think Elaine Cho Walter would be very happy that someone is using. I think she would question the use.

But I think that I think we're all very happy in a literary sense that she's using, you know, a character that we all know so well. And she's using the. the visual imagery of Malay's painting. And as a lifelong admirer of the pre-Raphaelites, I just, I was so happy to see it. So I'm going to say I'm just a hundred. Oh, my goodness.

Say what you want to about me. I don't care. Okay, emotional impact. Oh, you know, I do miss the old tailor where she's just, you know, one more damn guy has left me. I'm so angry about it, or I'm melancholy and I'm seeing through a London fog. Or I've got cleansing rain falling down upon me.

Or a vampire stuck in the blood right out of my throat. I have to admit I miss that tailor. I'm glad she's happy. Emotional impact. I mean, emotional could be happy emotions as well. I'm happy for her. Yeah, sure. 93. I don't know, you know.

Okay. And, oh, that's it. Okay. That gives us a 97.8. So I'm going to round that up to a 98. Okay. Okay, sure. I love this. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Because I do think it has so much more depth than all of you people are saying it does. Yeah. I mean, I get the haters, but. But, yeah, I think that it's, I think it's interesting. Like I said, I just think it's very strong in its storytelling element.

I agree. I'm with you. I love the illusion. I love the way she fills that out. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. 98 for Ophelia.

That's our take. We love Shakespeare. Always have. He's good. Yeah. Have you heard? Okay, any other thoughts? I don't think so.

Okay. I'm anxious to run on to another one of her poems. Okay. Another one of the songs from this album. Yeah. I'll look forward to it. It's fun to have something really fresh and contemporary, so. Definitely.

Okay. That's all for us. Make sure you're subscribed everywhere, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get us, and you can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Swifty and ScholarPod. You can follow me. at Angela Wyatt McDow on Instagram. And you can find Uncle Jerry here reading Shakespeare and The King's Two Bodies. That's for, oh, and shout out to all of our friends in Australia.

And happy birthday, Ramona. Belated birthday. Oh, happy birthday, Ramona. Oh, Ramona. Yes, happy birthday, Ramona. I just remember what you're talking about. Yes, happy late birthday, Ramona. Okay, we'll see you all next week.

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