The Tape Library - Archive of the Paranormal & the Unexplained - The Disturbing Cisco Grove Incident: California’s Strangest Real Life Encounter

Episode Date: March 5, 2026

In September 1964, bow hunter Donald Shrum climbed into a tree stand deep in the forests near Cisco Grove, expecting a quiet night deer hunting in the Sierra Nevada mountains. What he claimed happened next would become one of the strangest and most terrifying close encounter cases ever reported. As darkness fell, Shrum witnessed glowing unidentified craft descending into the forest below. Moments later, humanoid figures reportedly emerged and began advancing toward his position, attempting to climb the very tree he was trapped in. Armed only with a bow and arrows, Shrum claimed he spent the entire night fighting off unknown entities while strange lights surrounded the woods. By morning, the objects were gone. But the questions remained. Who — or what — surrounded Donald Shrum that night? Why was the official investigation so strange? And why has the Cisco Grove Incident remained one of the most overlooked UFO encounters in American history? In this full paranormal documentary, we examine the original testimony, the aftermath of the encounter, interviews conducted by civilian UFO investigators including members of MUFON, and the enduring mystery behind what many researchers call the UFO Siege at Cisco Grove. This is the true story of one man, alone in the forest… and something watching from below. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Support the channel with Patreon - www.patreon.com/thetapelibrary Do you have a supernatural story to share? Drop me an email at [e-mail] You can check out The Tape Library in audio form on all of your favourite podcast providers. Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetapelibrary Tiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@thetapelibrary Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/people/The-Tape-Library/100094332411836/ Archive of the Paranormal, the strange and the unexplained. Additional footage and audio from Evanto, Artgrid, Epidemic Sounds, Singularity, Midjourney and Pexels. Music includes Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio and the youtube audio library. All other footage used under fair use. CHAPTERS 00:00 Cisco Grove 04:51 The Hunt 09:18 The Object 14:23 The Beings 19:15 The Battle 27:16 The Return 30:50 The Truth 42:06 What Really Happened? 51:07 Wrapping Up SpectreVision Radio is a bespoke podcast network at the intersection between the arts and the uncanny, featuring a tapestry of shows exploring creativity, the esoteric, and the unknown. We’re a community for creators and fans vibrating around common curiosities, shared interests and persistent passions. spectrevisionradio.com linktr.ee/spectrevisionsocial Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You've felt it, haven't you? I felt that energy in the room shift a little bit. That chill. We were woken up by this howling. That shadow. And you would see this shadow just kind of creep out from around the corner of the dining room. You're being watched. Six-na-foot-tall and skinny came from behind me.

Others have seen it, felt it, experienced it. And suddenly, they're these loud, bang, bang, bang. And now they're ready to tell you everything. I saw an entity. Playing on a Ouija board and summoning a demon. Join us in darkness as we share first-hand encounters from beyond the veil, told by the very people who lived them. I felt a giant lick right across the right side of my face.

Yeah, that was strange. This is Geist. All new episodes. Now channeling from Spector Vision Radio. These are unidentified flying objects that people say they are seeing now. Are they proof that we are being visited by civilizations from other stars? Or just what are they? The United States Air Force begins.

an investigation of this high strangeness in a search for the truth. What you were about to see is part of that 20-year search. Vincent Alvarez was walking through a forest just to the west of Lake Tahoe. The sun had set and he was trying to find his way back to camp. He wasn't alone, not exactly. Alvarez had come out hunting with two of his work colleagues. The three men had taken three different paths around a ridge, but it turned out to be a much longer walk around than expected, so their plan to meet up again had become complicated. Still, all three men were experienced hunters and knew that this was not a good area to be caught out alone in the dark. They would all be heading back to camp independently. Alvarez's attention was very quickly drawn up

to the night sky. When he saw what he thought was immediately. meteorite, crossing the darkness above the forest. Just this bright light shining above him in the distance. But it was moving so slowly, getting lower and lower. Could it be a helicopter? Alvarez didn't have long to think about it when he heard a crunching sound coming from behind him. He spun around just in time to see another light. Alvarez jumped, before realising. it was the beam of a torch. He began walking through the trees until he found the source of the light. It was Tim Trueblood, one of his companions.

Alvarez looked back towards the sky where he had come from, but the trees obscured much of his vision, and his thoughts went back to the immediate danger. The two men began to head back to camp. Alvarez didn't mention what he had seen. It didn't seem important. But when they got back to camp they realised a third member of their party, Donald Shrum, wasn't back yet. Shrum wasn't experienced outdoorsmen. They thought he would be fine and would make it back in no time.

But the hours ticked by and still there was no sign of him. Alvarez sat by the campfire and thought about it. The light in the sky. It had just been a shooting star. He was sure of it. They were both worried about Shrum, but just kept telling themselves he could take care of himself. He would get back to them as soon as he was able. They had no idea the trouble that Donald Shrum was truly in.

Somewhere, out in this dark Californian forest, Donald Shrum had been cornered by something that seemed more dangerous than the local wildlife, or a sudden drop in the dark. As they sat around the campfire, Donald was up in a tree, looking down at something that he couldn't begin to explain, terrified and wondering if he would ever see his family again. Donald Shrum was about to embark in a battle for his life against something that, well, what exactly he would be battling is hard to explain. Tonight would delve him back into the tape library archives. to a case that took place in 1964.

One of the strangest stories I think we've covered so far. This one is equal parts unbelievable, yet somehow terrifyingly, it feels like there could be some truth to it. It seems something did happen that night in the forest. But what exactly? Well, that's for you to decide. Get yourself a warm drink,

then the lights and get comfortable. It's time to hit play on another tape, another chance for us to delve into the history of the strange and the unexplained. This is the Cisco Grove incident. Welcome to the tape library. Around 60 miles northeast of Sacramento, California, you'll find an area of forest in the footshills of the Sierra Nevada Mountains, called Cisco Grove. It was a Friday in 1964, September 4th to be exact. When free friends, Donald Shrum, Tim Trueblood and Vincent Alvarez, set out for what they intended to be a relaxing weekend of hunting and camping in the wilderness. The men all knew each hour from work.

They were employees at the Aerojet Corporation, a company that at the time was developing some serious advanced missile systems, including the Polaris Project. The US's first submarine launched ballistic missile. These were hard-working serious men, who were long overdue of a break. There were seasons where you were allowed to hunt for deer with firearms in the area. But that season had not yet begun so the three men came along with bows and arrows instead. Shrum, who was a seasoned bow hunter, actually preferred this. Being quoted later as saying that he often had more luck with the bow.

They set up their camp, close to a small lake. As they began their first hunt, they came across a rattlesnake on the path. The men had no idea at the time. This would be their only kill of the weekend. By Saturday, they would be rushing back to civilization, and that their understanding of the world we lived in would be turned on its head. Late in the afternoon, they set out for an evening husband. hunt, hoping to get some time in before the sunset. Shrum walked along a higher up ridge while

the other two men took lower paths. While they were separated, they all tried to keep within each other's line of sight. They shouted up to Shrum to head around the ridge, and they would meet him on the other side. But it was deceiving how far the ridge reached round. When Shrum got to the end, he was met with a steep drop. So he decided to backtrack and head down the way he came. By this point though, he had lost track of his other companions, and the sun was beginning to get low in the sky. As he reached the bottom, Shrum ended up in very brushy country.

This combined with the fact that the sun had now set, not only slowed him down considerably, but made it extremely difficult to move. Quickly, Shrum decided that. this was not a safe situation. Despite being covered head to toe and camouflage, it was too dark. He was in unfamiliar terrain and there were predators out there that could pose a risk to him. In fact, there had been numerous bear sightings in the days leading up to their trip. Rather than stumble about in the dark, Shrum decided he needed to get to higher ground and wait

until morning. Shrum saw a large granite cliff face that had a foot wide crack in it. He walked up it and found a tree right on the edge of the cliff. The first branch was nearly 12 feet high, but by using the rock he was able to reach it with relative ease. Trum sat on one branch and rested his feet on another, trying to find a position that would be safe to stay in. It was frustrating. He was He was only about a mile away from camp, but it just wasn't worth the risk. A night under the stars wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, he thought to himself, as he braced for what was likely to be an uncomfortable night of rest. It was a little after 7pm by the time he had himself perched in the tree,

and nothing much of note really happened, to begin with. He wondered if his companions were still trying to make their way back to camp. He thought it would be unlikely they would still be out looking for him by this point. He was alone, with just a gentle breeze through the trees, and the sound of distant wildlife, to keep him company. But then, at around 9pm, everything changed. Just to the north of his position, below the mountaintops, he noticed a light in the sky.

It seemed to be moving in a westward direction, but its movement wasn't straight. It seemed to almost be bobbing up and down as it moved. At first he thought it was just a distant flashlight, but it was moving up and down across the tree line. The movement instantly made Shrum think it must be a helicopter. Had Alvarez and True Blood called for help, it must be the forestry service, looking for him.

Shrum thought about how to get their attention. He climbed down from the tree. began to gather up from dry bits of bark and plants and pulled out his box of matches. There were three large rocks, about ten feet apart from one another by the tree he was hiding in. So Shrum lit a fire on each one, sure that this would be enough to draw the helicopter's attention to his location. He then stood between the fires and began to manically wave his arms around, yelling as he did. The light in the sky stopped moving, turned, and began to quickly head in the direction of shrum.

The first inkling that he got that something might be wrong was that despite the light getting closer and closer, he couldn't hear it. Then, as it was a short distance away, it suddenly stopped in place between two trees, hovering, unnervingly silent. He could see the light on the very front of it that had made him mistake it for a helicopter. But now it was closer. The light looked tiny, which seemed surprising given how far its light seemed to travel. Shrum was terrified. He didn't know what this thing was, but he suddenly felt very exposed, out in the open like this.

He quickly retreated back to his tree. He waited, silently himself, not moving as he watched the objects in the sky, make a large sweeping half circle towards the east, now hovering over a canyon just 60 yards away. That was when he got his first clearer look at it. This certainly was no helicopter. Later Shrum would describe it almost like a cigar shape, although initially he seemed to believe it was slightly more oval. It was difficult to tell. There was the light in the front that made the object appear small, but it seemed now that it was much larger than he thought. It was

hard to really gauge though, because the body of the objects was so dark. It looked darker than the night sky. Then he realised the light on the tip wasn't the only source of light. There were three rectangular panels along the side. There were lit, up, staggered almost like steps along the body of the object. He wasn't sure if they had always been there, or if they had just suddenly begun to glow. But either way he could see them now, these lights seemed to shimmer. In a way Shrum described as almost like reflecting light off a moving sheet of aluminium foil.

The most shocking element though was the size. It was large, very, very large. Some estimates based on the descriptions from Shrum seemed to suggest it could have been as much as 150 feet long. The object just hovered over the canyon for around five minutes, seemingly not doing anything until suddenly something seemed to come from one of the glowing panels. All Shrum saw at first was a kind of flash shooting out from the middle one. The flash went down the hill, almost like a powerful photograph being taken.

But that wasn't what it was. There was a much smaller dark object, now moving across the sky, lower than the initial object. It disappeared off into the trees, about half mile away, before stopping on the side of a nearby hill. Shrum could only make out part of this smaller object. It looked more like a dome. and maybe only 30 feet wide, but it was hard to tell again. Although he did say that this one looked silver, and there appeared to be a flashing light on the top,

that was when he finally heard a sound, a crashing noise. Something was moving through the forest, moving down the mountainside, towards his direction. It only took a few minutes for the first figure to appear in the clearing below. Emerging from the tree line was a short, stocky figure.

It couldn't have been more than five feet tall, wearing what looked like a skin tight, light-coloured outfit. It had something on its head, possibly a helmet or a hood, but its face was dark, which separated it from the rest of the body. It was virtually featureless. The only detail that Shron was able to make out

was two large circular eyes. But they weren't eyes as such. They were possibly a part of the outfit. Schrum thought that they resembled welder's goggles. Then, right behind it, a second one came trotting out of the bushes. Shrum sat frozen in the tree, terrified, staring at these oddly dressed people who were only about a hundred feet away. unsure what exactly he was witnessing. But the two figures didn't seem to be looking for

Shrom, they were more interested in the forest. More specifically at this point, they appeared to be fascinated by a manzanita bush. Then he began to notice further in the distance. Others dressed in a similar style, all walking around looking at the ground, seemingly investigating the plants and rocks. It seemed they either didn't know Shrum was there, or they simply had no interest in him. That was until they began to move closer, still more focused on the plant life.

But one of the figures then went and stood right underneath the tree Shrum was hiding him. A few moments passed, and the second joined it. Then their heads tilted up, and both figures looked straight at shrung. At that point, he now doubted if there were goggles at all. They looked more like large black, silver dollar-sized eyes, staring right into his

soul, their face totally dark and featureless, beyond what looked almost like a low, flat nose on their face. Then one began to make a sort of hooting sound. almost like that of an owl. The large object that at this point was still floating in the sky seemed to respond with a similar sound of its own. Shrum took a deep breath in, but as he did, he suddenly heard another noise, this time coming from the east, from a nearby ridge. He glanced over to see something else emerging.

the first thing he was drawn to was the eyes, but this time they were different. There were two glowing circles, the colour of fire, and these bright lights lit up the face of the figure they belonged to. He could make out a face, a jaw, but it looked metallic. The descriptions that was subsequently given later made the being sound almost like the Iron Giant. As a side note, the novel The Iron Giant was based on would be released just a few years after this story, was said to have taken place. Shrum refers to it as a robot, but he does make it clear that it equally could have been some sort of metallic suit, and was roughly the same size as the other figures below the tree. While he could make out the face a little from the glow of its

eyes, the body below just turned into shadow. It moved in a much stiffer way. than the other figures. This metallic person took an easier route to the tree, going out of its way to take a clear path, rather than forcing its way through the dense brush, as the other figures had. It then joined the other two at the bottom of the tree, and also just seemed to stare, not acting, not really reacting to shrum, just watching. Then, the metallic figure moved again, this time towards what remained of the fire as shrum had set, which were now no more than glowing embers. It stretched its arm out and brushed the embers away,

as though it were trying to put out any trace of the fire. Then it returned to the bottom of the tree. Then, this strange scenario took a turn. The metallic creature seemed to move its hand up to the side, of its face. Then very quickly a white vapor appeared to spray out of its mouth. The vapor quickly rose up into the tree. Shrum didn't smell anything but he suddenly started gasping for breath and then quickly blacked out. Falling onto his bow as he did, lucky to not fall off the branch. Whatever this was didn't seem to incapacitate Shrum for long.

He began dry heaving and sat upright again. This was the point when Shrum realised he was in real danger. They had just tried to either kill him or knock him unconscious. He couldn't be sure. But whatever it was, it appeared to be an act of aggression. He pulled back his bow, aimed it at the metallic being and let go. It crashed straight into the chest. which seemed to instantly create a large flash of light.

A light shrum later described as like an arc welder. It knocked the metallic beam back against some rocks that were two feet behind it. But that was about all it did. The other two beings in white retreated a little to the treeline and continued to watch. The others in the distance seemed to scatter.

He fired again. and then again. Each time the sparks flew, the being stepped backwards. But it didn't seem to damage it at all. Shrum had quickly run out of arrows, so he tried something new. He pulled out one of his pack of matches, lit it on fire, and threw it to the ground. This seemed to be more successful. Both the figures in white and the metallic being moved further away from the tree.

So he started to look to see what else he could burn. He pulled off his cap, set it on fire and launched that towards them too. This seemed to make the large objects in the sky retreat as well, shooting off into the sky with such a speed that Shrum didn't even see it move. It was just suddenly further away. But as soon as the fire started burning down, the beings began to advance on the tree. again. He began setting fire to scraps of paper, throwing them down, desperately hoping to set a bush on fire, but below him mostly consisted of earth and rock. He burned his money, his hunting

license. When that didn't help, he began ripping off pieces of his shirt. Eventually, he was down to just his jeans and t-shirt, with no other flammable belongings remaining. He was successful in starting a small fire, but it didn't seem to be a huge help. He climbed higher into the tree, removing his belt and using that to tie himself to the branch so that he couldn't fall out. Once he was secure, he glanced back down. To discover there was now a second metallic figure standing at the bottom of the tree next to the second. The original one approached again and yet again released a wall the white vapor that seemed to make Shrum momentarily pass out. Luckily his belt held, stopping him from falling. But as consciousness began to return, he looked down this time to see two of

the figures in white, were now climbing up the tree. Shrum in a panic began to launch everything he could down at them. First he pulled a limb off the tree and threw it. Then he followed up with coins. He threw He threw down his metal canteen, but apparently the beings in white picked it up, looked at it and threw it away. This began a cycle. The metallic being would gas him. He would pass out for a brief moment. The beings in white would begin to climb, and shrum would be forced to do anything he could,

to scare them off. In between bouts of dry heaving and slipping in and out of consciousness. He screamed, he shouted, he rattled the tree. At one point he even began to imitate the howls of nearby coyotes, hoping it would lead these creatures into believing that some kind of help was headed Shrum's way. While all this was going on, the other figures in white were seemingly still going about their business, looking at plants and collecting samples. It was just these two, and the metallic beings, that were still still going about their business.

seemingly hell-bent on trying to get to Shrum. This back and forth continued for hours. Late into the night, Shrum thought there was no hope. He was so terrified of what their intentions were for him, but he had no idea why they were so desperate to get him out of the tree. At one point, that fear and hopelessness got the better of him. He looked down the other side, down the cliff. face and considered undoing the belt and jumping to his death in the canyon.

Apparently the only thing that stopped him from doing that was the thought of his young daughter at home, waiting for him to return from his trip. It was, as the first signs of daylight began to fill the sky, that the beings apparently attempted one last plan. The two metallic figures moved close together. They were slightly blocked by the branches of the trees, but Shrum said he saw a powerful glow flooding the floor beneath the tree. The two beings were facing each other, lights flashing between their chests.

Then a much larger cloud of the same white vapour began to drift up the tree. Shrum fell to blast of intense cold, and then everything went black. Donald Shrum woke up. The sun hadn't fully risen, but the sky was light now. This hadn't been just a few moments of losing consciousness again. Some time had passed. He glanced around. He was dangling over the edge of the branch of the tree.

Tying the belt had likely saved his life. He suddenly regained his composure, and his eyes darted back down, expecting to see the figures in white climbing. But there was no one. He looked up into the sky, no object. The smaller object was gone from the further away hill. He was all alone, dangling from a tree. Suddenly the cold of the morning hit him, and shivering he began to unhook himself and hesitantly

climb down. The floor was covered in all the various items he had thrown, and there were footprint that he described as looking like those of a child where he was covered. in moccasants. He picked up his bow and two of the arrows that he could find. Curiously though, the coins he had thrown were nowhere to be found. The rest of his clothes just burnt remnants on the floor. He began to slowly stagger back to his camp, but he only made it about half a mile before exhaustion overtook him, and he collapsed to the floor. After a short while he was awoken by the sound of whistling. It was Victor Alvarez, who had begun the search

for his missing friend as soon as day broke. Alvarez found Shrum collapsed on the floor. His camouflage all gone, now just wearing a t-shirt and jeans, shivering on the ground. True Blood and Alvarez tried to warm Shrum up back at camp, feeding him and wrapping him in blankets. But Shrum was too weak to explain what had happened. He fell asleep for six hours. When he finally got up, the first thing Shrum wanted to do was listen to the radio. He cycled through various radio stations, not speaking to True Blood or Alvarez, who by this point must have thought their friend had lost his mind. He only stopped after hearing a local news report, talking about sightings of a life.

in the sky the night before. Alvarez said that he had seen that last night when they got separated. He said it was like a shooting star but it was weirdly low in the sky and that was when Donald Shrum told his story. By all accounts they shouldn't have believed him but they did. Shrum was not the sort of character to make up wild stories like this and he could clearly see the state the man was in. Something had definitely happened to him last night. Something all three of them struggled to understand. That afternoon, Shrum returned to his home. His wife was shocked by his appearance. In a later letter, she described his return as such. He was white as a sheet. He was walking

as though he had walked for hundreds of miles. His eyes were dazed looking. He spoke in a shaky voice. He had dark circles under his eyes. His clothes were filthy, and he had scratches all over his arms. He didn't say anything as he entered, just sat on the sofa, took a deep breath, and told his wife he had something to tell her. Then he laid out the whole story. Judy Schrum's first step was to contact her father, a recently retired Master Sergeant, from the nearby Maffa Air Force. space. He made some inquiries, but seemingly the Air Force hadn't been on manoeuvres that night. Donald was sick after the incident, often complaining of chest pains, so he

didn't go back to work right away. Judy's brother, a nuclear physicist, seemed concerned about the idea of radiation poisoning, if Donald's story were true, but seemingly it was just a cold and bruising from the tree branch. and no further symptoms developed, or at least not physical symptoms. For months and even years after the incident, Shrum seemed to be suffering from PTSD. He would wake up at night, covered in sweats, screaming about their eyes. The sound of Owl's hooting would set off borderline panic attacks in him. His wife would often find him, sat up at night with the curtains on.

open, staring out into the night sky. Schrum wanted to tell people about what he had experienced, but he was smart about it. All three of the hunters were worried about losing their jobs at the missile factory, so Shrum confided in a few people he thought would take him seriously and offer him advice rather than going public. Initially speaking to a professor Killick from the Sacramento Observatory, seemingly they contacted him the very day that Shrum arrived home. The professor was skeptical, but seemed to imply that he didn't believe that Shrum was faking this story as such. Shrum seemed to genuinely believe this happened to him, and so did his family. Killik sent a letter to the commander of Maffa Air Force Base,

explaining the story, and offering to help them get to the bottom of it if the Air Force wanted to investigate further. Just three weeks after his experience, The shrubs were brought to a private residence, just off of the Air Force Base, and questioned by two Air Force officers. Sitting at a kitchen table in what practically looked like a show home, it was clear that no one actually lived there. Through later discovered documentation, these two men were identified as Captain McLeod, and Sergeant Major R. Barnes.

asked most of the questions, recording the interview using a real-to-reel machine. The conversation went for two hours, and then the Air Force men submitted their report to Wright-Patterson Field. They seemed to be speaking down to Donald, pushing the idea that he must have been mistaken. The theories they proposed to him were a little odd, firstly claiming that it was a group of Japanese people and stating that they had trouble with them during the war. seemingly suggesting that disgruntled Japanese troops were hiding out in the forests of California, causing havoc. When Shrum didn't take this too seriously, they then passed the blame to mischievous teenagers, pulling a prank.

Barnes's third theory was that it was Air Force troops on some sort of training exercise. In their official report, the Air Force blamed psychological causes for the event to the event. with the beings. But Donald was firm in his belief of what he saw, even showing the men one of the arrows that he had fired at the metallic being. There was what appeared to be melted aluminium on it, and the head of the arrow was bent, seemingly from the impact. They took the arrowhead, supposedly to run some tests, but they never returned it.

He did however provide them with a detailed hand-drawn map of where all the events were had taken place. This was a mistake. A few weeks later, Donald Shrum returned to the site with his brother, Alvarez, and another friend, and was shocked to find it seemed like the site had been picked clean. All of the remnants of Shrum's ordeal were gone. Of course, this could point towards that this was all in his mind, or maybe wildlife had dislodged the items. But, but that he could point towards that this was all in his mind. Or maybe wildlife had dislodged the items. But, but the And it seemed like the ground had been raked, as though someone had tidied this secluded

little area. Whoever it was though didn't find everything. After some searching, Donald found the third arrow, hidden in a bush, just slightly further away into the brush, as well as the remains of cigarettes, different brands. had certainly been here in the last few weeks, and they didn't come alone. Schrum began to quietly contact UFO research groups and ended up sending off the two arrows to be analysed in the lab. Unfortunately, no evidence of any substance could be identified on the arrowheads, although subsequently this has been blamed on poor packaging and

storage of the arrows, making results difficult to obtain due to the methods. metal that was melted to the arrows, flaking off in transit, and the packaging thrown away. A frustrating turn of events for Shrum. In January of 1965, Judy Shrum sent a letter to Major Donald Kehoe, after reading an article he had written for True magazine on the issue of the Air Force censoring UFO sightings. She explained the entire ordeal to him. In the letter, she states that a few reporters had gotten wind of the story and tried to speak to them, but that her husband is so worried about losing his job that they were trying to keep this out of the press. But despite the reluctancy to go public, they needed answers. They need to know what happened to him

that night in Cisco Grove. This prompted the organisation NICAP to begin a detailed investigation into Donald Schrum's story. After years speaking with him, they believed Shrum's account, but were unable to really explain what had happened to him exactly. As part of this long investigation, Shrum underwent hypnotic regression in 1974, a controversial practice that I think we've discussed briefly when speaking about the satanic panic. The main concerns with this practice, is that it's very easy to even unwittingly insert false memories into the patient's recollection. But under hypnosis, most of Schrum's details remained much the same, as they had 10 years prior. But he was able to recall slightly more details about the apparent crafts.

It appears this is the point where the description that it was a cigar-shaped craft was clarified, whereas before he struggled to identify the size and shape due to the darkness of the overall object. Donald had always been worried that he had been taken on board the craft in that last period where he blacked out. But from the hypnotic regression, they were not able to identify anything like that happening, which was apparently a relief to the man. The hypnosis sessions only brought out small details. It didn't change from some sort of. story, which seemed to add some weight to his perception of the events. Ultimately, Shrum, along with others including Alvarez, were let go from their jobs, just

two years after the incident. Shrum believes this was due to the company missing out on a large government contract, but others have suggested that it seems clear that Wright-Patterson Air Force Base had a detailed file on Shrum and his claims. and it is very likely they would have spoken to his superiors about what he claimed to see. While Alvarez confirmed he saw a light in the sky that night, Tim Trubblood has apparently never spoken about the incident. If he didn't see anything or chose to remain silent, appears to be unclear.

But after losing their jobs, he seems to have disappeared from the story completely. Despite losing his job, Shrum was still reluctant to go. public with his story, and while groups like Nycap and other prominent researchers in the field were presenting this case in reports and conferences, he didn't want his name connected to it. The story resurfaced a few times in the following decades, mostly in occasional articles or books, but by and large it became a fairly obscure case, despite appearing in the 1970s NBC show, Project UFO, that recreated a loose version of the events without Schrumm's involvement. Donald Schrum finally broke his silence and went public with the story at a Mufon meeting in 2005.

This led to the first publication of his name in a 2007 journal, and ultimately a book written by investigators Noe Torres and Ruben Uriati called Aliens in the Forest in 2011. This book had heavy involvement from the Shrum family and is the definitive account of Donald Trump's story. This is also the book I have used as the basis for most of my reading on this topic. The book presented a chance for him to finally set the record straight and get his story out there, after decades of it being hidden away, only really discussed in serious UFO circles, and at times being twisted. Years after the incident, in 1969, Donald Trump was on a camping trip. He was there with his wife Judy, Vincent Alvarez, who he was still friends with, and Alvarez's

wife too. The group was sitting around a campfire talking. When suddenly, Donald went silent. Then he turned and looked up at the mountain ridge behind him. Donald had a buzzing in his ear and a strange sensation that he was. He needed to look towards the mountains. After several minutes of staring, a light shot through the sky, so fast and high that it was unbelievable.

A few seconds later, a smaller red light followed behind it. Until they went over the mountain and disappeared from view, none of them could explain what they had just seen. night as he returned to the tent to go to sleep. Judy Schrum called her husband, placing a handgun under his pillow. Something he had never done before. While the nightmares did finally stop, Shrum developed a constant fear of the dark and of the forest that he could never shake. He was always on edge when the sun began to dim below the horizon. The experience ruined his life.

This man, a simple man who had no interest in this world of the strange, saw his life turn upside down in the span of one night in his twenties. It left him with a story that he knew people would struggle to believe, but a story that fundamentally changed his world. An incident that left him looking out at the night sky for years to come, wondering, what really happened to him. So, what did really happen? This is a really tricky one to dissect, as we really only have Donald's recounting of what happened to him. The obvious one that people jump straight to for this one,

is that this was all a hoax. And it's understandable that this is where people's minds go to. Frankly, Shrum's story is insane. The man claims that he was forced to hide in a tree, night, fighting off robots with a bow and arrow, while aliens ran around collecting soil samples from a forest in California. But if this were a hoax, it creates a whole lot of other questions. Were Donald's hunting buddies in on it?

If they were, why not create a more detailed story for their experiences? Alvarez claimed to see a light in the sky. blood didn't appear to see anything. But both seemed to confirm finding Donald in that state the following morning, after him being lost all night. So was he lying to them too? Was his wife involved in the hoax? She seemed to play a key part in contacting people to try and get answers. Was this from genuine concern over what her husband experienced? Or was she just furthering the story? I think my biggest issue with the hoax angle is why did he do it?

The main reasons are always attention or money, but Schrum clearly identified the history going public would potentially cause him to lose his job. I don't believe he made any money from it, possibly from the book sales that came from aliens in the forest, but this was released nearly 50 years after he made a claim about his experience. and I'm unsure if he actually directly made any money from the book sales, as he was not one of the authors.

In regards to attention, the shrums were very, very selective about who they spoke to about this. If they wanted to create a UFO hoax, they did a terrible job of it. They very specifically did not speak with the press. And for the most part, no one heard this story for decades. This leaves me firmly of the mind that this was not to hoax. But that doesn't mean Donald Shrum saw aliens either. One detail that has been called into question is that Shrum mentions the craft and what he was seeing being illuminated by the moon at times.

But according to records, there shouldn't have been a moon in the sky that night. Or if there was, it would have only been a tiny sliver. I don't think this discredits his claims. He could be misremembering. He could have wrongly identified a light source as the moon. Or he could have been making up this detail to give credence to his ability to see, worried that people would totally dismiss it if he was honest about how dark it was. But it does bring us to the issue of visibility. One of the elements of this story that sticks out to me is the fact that for most of what he witnessed, Donald Shrum was several feet up a tree in a pitch black forest.

A lot of attention has been drawn to the fact that his descriptions of what he saw seemed to mirror the science fiction of the time. But could his visibility have just been poor? And he began unconsciously filling in details in his mind of what he thought these things looked like. For this reason, I think we have to have some serious doubts about his descriptions of what the objects in the sky and the beings actually look like. On the more out there high strangeness theories in cases like this, there is often the idea that these beings, whatever they are, have a way of disguising their appearance based on the mind of the

witnesses. The podcast astonishing legends brings up the idea here and compares it to the Sand Down Clown incident, pointing out the descriptions of Sam the Sandown Clown. as some similarities to the Cisco Grove incident. Did these beings present themselves, closer to a clown, because they were being viewed by children, but something more robotic to Shrum, something closer to what he may have seen on TV at the time? There was the comparison he had made to the eyes, being like welder's goggles too, and Shrum was a welder. Is there some kind of mental trickery going on here?

Or are they even being created by the minds of those who witness them? But that's a whole crazy rabbit hole you can go down for a very long time. Over the decades, the story at times became confused, with some reports changing details over the years, including a write-up by John Kiel. This wasn't due to changes in Shrum's story though. Just details being misreported. Schrum's reluctance to become a public figure meant it was tricky to keep the record straight.

But transcripts of early interviews and letters in the book paint a clearer picture of what supposedly happened. Schrum has seemingly stuck to his story. I genuinely believe that he believes this really happened. Could it have been some kind of psychotic break? I think this is a tricky one to discuss. without any evaluations like this being done on Shrum at the time. It seems like this was not an avenue anyone that spoke with him at the time went down,

but then it was the 1960s. Still, each report seems to indicate he appears at the very least to be of sound mind. There were suggestions that the hazardous chemicals from the missile plant could have caused hallucinations, but it appears this theory has been fairly debunked. Of course, there is also the idea of military testing. Had what he witnessed truly been some kind of strange Air Force training mission? Or the more sinister idea? Had Trum been the subject of some sort of test, may be drugged with hallucinogens, but for

what purpose? It's hard to begin to even try to figure out why such an experiment would be helpful in this specific scenario, but I'm sure there are plenty of theories out there that could point to something like this. So what did happen to Donald Schrum out in that forest? Seemingly, no one knows, not even Donald Shrum himself. There are so many weird elements to this story that makes it difficult to really latch on to any one theory specifically.

The idea that these were aliens is, I think, one of the least interesting routes you can go down. I believe that Donald Shrum saw something in the forest that night, something that he interacted with, something that traumatized him for the rest of his life. If that were alien, human, a construct of his mind, or something else entirely, I couldn't say. But it's the something else. else entirely that will keep me awake tonight. Because we love to put events like this in neat little boxes. This was a UFO sighting. This was a cryptic. This was a hoax. This was swamp gas. But I feel this is so based in our perception of reality, our ideas of what

could be possible. When maybe events like this aren't explainable in those constructs. Maybe for people like Donald Trump, they have peered behind the curtain. Into a world they cannot begin to fathom. Maybe they recreate the events they experienced in their memory, in a way that makes sense to them, twisting little details to make it feel more plausibly connected to a preconceived cultural idea. But in reality, these are events they, nor us. could possibly understand.

Maybe there really is something out there, but we just don't have a box for it. And maybe... We never will. That's all for this entry into the tape library. Just before we close up the archive for the evening, thank you for watching this episode. I would love to hear your thoughts and theories in the comments below.

I don't always get to respond to everyone, but at the very least I read almost to the most of the same. I read almost every comment. So please, start a conversation. Tell me what you think took place here. You can help me out massively by clicking like if you're watching on YouTube or leaving a rating if you're listening to the podcast. And of course if you're new here, then click subscribe or follow. I'm back roughly every two weeks, with explorations into the strange and the unexplained. And of course, if you're so inclined you can support the show on Patreon, details of which can be found in the description.

Until next time, my friends, pleasant dreams. This episode was made possible from the kind donations of members on Patreon and YouTube. If you want to join these shoutouts, you can do that by joining one of the higher tiers from Patreon. First up our Tape Library archivists, Shan Harding, Adam M, Edgar Allan Ho, Adam Grantham, Yenok, Aurora, Lee Borax Johnson, now and Zetriks Pat McShay, Pantherpour, The Elusive M, Yorkison away, the bisexual moon cult, emulated Phoenix, Jamie Long, Lisa Marie Sheridan, Gaffy with a G, plum blossom, Gina,

Gina, Thomas Boatwright, Gina, Stephen Lutman, Crystal E, West Virginia, Vegetable Man, Dawn Swan, Tina S, Joel Miller, Juno, Joseph Condola, Jolly, Jolly, Pixelina, Joe, Crimson, DEM, The Detective, Jean-Gene, Dala, Alfredo Sandoval, Geroor, Midiasabine, Dominic D'Angeles, Degun Adolig, Judith Hacker, Eric Salas, Mirashard, Adlin, Ashlust Books, Gabrielle, Umico Grimm, and Sandy Lusk. Then we have our amazing lead archivist, Wynne Lewis, Plague Doctor Is In, Amy Stubble, the original dear, Emmy Bartley, Lady Bet Noir, Ridiculous, Ludicester Harrensen, Emperor Franz, Old Soul Like Mine, Xavier Angle, Sad Gal Callie, Alex O'Neill, Tyler Michael, Alex Goldberg, Van Yell, Brian Baker, and 1000th Coast. and our insanely generous grand overseers,

Harrison the Ogerlord, Leah Carmela, Bad Diddley, Katie, Morning Rain 2619, Agent 355, and Queen of Flatlands. A serious, massive thank you to all those people for just being a lovely bunch, and all my junior archivists on Patreon, and you wonderful members on YouTube.

If you want to join us, then please check out the Patreon link in the description. Thank you. So if you take tarot the way that pop culture portrays it, which is that the cards themselves have some kind of hidden power to predict your future, the jury is very much out. However, if I were to do my own tarot and have such a connection with my own subconscious that when I see these symbols, I could apply any meaning to it,

And I basically use it as a way to explore my unconscious and subconscious mind. There's a lot of things that you don't know that you know that are buried deep inside of you. Through things like meditation and therapy and all of that, you get these epiphanies that bring it out. And I think that symbols are another method to do that, these kinds of internal excavations. And so it actually doesn't require a belief in the supernatural, although it doesn't. totally helps.