The Taproot Podcast - 🌱💊Exploring the Impact of Micronutrients on Mental Health and Chronic Inflammation

Starting point is 00:00:00 Eat my greens, nutrition You ain't on my vibe, then I don't gotta listen Working out, sleeping in, taking vitamins Vitamin A, vitamin B, vitamin C Vitamin D, vitamin bitch, vitamin please Hi, it's Joel Blackstock and you're listening to the Tab Root Therapy Podcast I'm here today with Corey Rasmussen and Jared Hardy of the Hardy Nutritional Company And I've seen their products do some pretty amazing things

Starting point is 00:00:25 with different people. These aren't people who approached me and told me that, you know, they had a product and they wanted to partner or something. And they're also not anybody who's advertising I'd ever encountered. What happened was, you know, we're a treatment resistant clinic and complex PTSD clinic. And we work with people that have been in a lot of different kinds of therapy. A lot of times dopamine disorders, especially, um, you can deal with the trauma that is fueling the genetic expression of, you know, the gene causing the dopamine disorder, but you're always going to have a little bit of a dopamine disorder, you know, schizophrenia or, um, bipolar disorder or, um, OCD are, you know, hard to treat without medication,

Starting point is 00:01:07 but also if you've got a very treatment-resistant form of a condition, a lot of times you've got to play with the medication all the time. You know, stress can make it not work as well. And trauma therapy helps, but we heard from multiple patients independently that they had tried all these different things and they were having good luck with Hardy. And so I was interested and I looked it up. And, you know, unlike a lot of the fad stuff that is kind of pseudoscientific out there, because a lot of people, you know, have a critique of psychopharmacology and a lot of the systems that we use in this country that aren't great. But they use it to push a product that is also a scam. You know, you can have a very good takedown of the system,

Starting point is 00:01:47 or you can have a very good critique, and then still be pushing something that is fraudulent or unhelpful. And the hearty stuff, you know, there was no like, oh, our secret ingredient that works for everybody is, you know, hornet venom from China or, you know, on the mountainside of Tibet, there's a rare blue flower that will cure, you know, there wasn't any of that kind of, um, marketing. It was just that they were talking about bioavailability and how, you know, um, chelation, they have one of the most advanced

Starting point is 00:02:17 chelation processes in the world, which is how you make the vitamin, um, be available to the body. If the, if it holds on too tight, tight, then you pass it and you don't get it in your system. And if it doesn't hold it at all, then it will break down in the container. So a lot of things that are labeled to contain a vitamin that you take doesn't really mean that you absorb that vitamin. And they use micronutrition, you know, with different time release things. There's a lot of science in it, but they weren't reinventing the wheel. They were just saying that we are actually taking lots of steps. Our product is expensive, and it's because it's built to make these things available to the body when and where they need them during this digestive process.

Starting point is 00:02:57 And because it wasn't some secret ingredient, kind of going back to the drawing board and saying I was interested in it and looked more at the science of it. So I wanted to have those guys on today to talk about their product. You can order it from their website. You know, one day I would like, you know, our clinic is started with just me and now we have some other therapists that do other things. And we now have the QEG brain mapping and neurostimulation. But the goal was to collect all of this brain-based medicine, you know, a myofascial release practitioner, someone who could do gut health and nutrition, and have all these people together so that we could start to build the future protocols that we're going to need to treat trauma

Starting point is 00:03:36 and change the kind of things that we want to change. And so being able to collaborate with them is helpful. And having, you know, the QEG brain mapping, being able to learn what's working where, and what order do you need certain kinds of treatment. I mean, that's all part of the stuff and part of the reason why we want to do all of this stuff in the same building and collaborate with each other instead of just referring to providers that talk once or twice. And I hope one day Hardy will be part of that, that we can, you know, have a supplement program or something. We don't now. So I don't have any business affiliation with them. They did send me some free samples in the mail after the podcast. So I appreciate that. You know, full disclosure, I got some free things. But, you know, I use their stuff. I think it's very helpful. And I wanted to make it available to more people just because I'd heard success stories from patients. So I'll go ahead and roll that interview. And I appreciate you listening. effects, plural, really, of what you're doing. From our experience, it really is an important addition.

Starting point is 00:04:48 We're doing a nutrient synergy. We're trying to be as complete as we can and to optimize that. And it works well for the majority of people. Many people also benefit from individualized treatment. In addition, things like N-acetylcysteine added to what we're doing. It's been shown to break down biofilms of organisms in the gut, and that can be very useful, make antibiotics more effective, make antimicrobials more effective, antifungals, for example. And we see a lot of people with gut health issues. So we work with a lot of

Starting point is 00:05:34 different practitioners specialized in gut health, specialized in psychiatry, of course. We need medical doctors to help people come off medications because that's essential. When we add the nutrients, they need to come off the medications. Eventually the optimal dose of medication is zero in the majority of cases. That's true of thyroid hormone as well. You're talking about medical things where you can get the body to make what it needs, like, you know, and it's also seen as a precursor for glutathione. That's right. And so, you know, having a universal antioxidant at the peak capacity that your liver can hold

Starting point is 00:06:12 is useful because, you know, if you're at least in America, you're probably going to encounter a poison somewhere, you know, so going ahead and you can't take glutathione orally, you just pass it. You can inject it, which is kind of arduous and expensive. But if you take the ingredients your body needs to make it, then you're always running at the highest level of having that. And when you encounter high cholesterol or you get the triple baconator or whatever, you breathe in fumes in the city or something, you're just better prepared to be able to handle that without liver inflammation and a lot of other things. I think it helps with neuroplasticity too.

Starting point is 00:06:52 Exactly. So our focus is on providing the body with all of the raw materials that it can't make on its own. We need those essential nutrients in optimal amounts. And in some cases, it varies from person to person by genetics. So we provide a foundation which works for most people for many different mental health conditions. We have extensive research right now with ADHD in adults and children showing that nutrients are very effective for attention to restore optimal attention for people but in addition to that the studies have looked at the clinical global impression in these trials for children and adults and it's very effective for mood and anxiety components of the adhd and that matches our experience in the other publications that have happened, dozens of publications, in fact, not all of them blinded. We're just getting into the realm where researchers are starting to do blinded trials. Would that be the same thing as like a randomized controlled trial we do here?

Starting point is 00:08:01 Is that what you mean by blinded? Yes, a randomized controlled trial. So they randomize individuals to different groups some receive our daily essential nutrients treatment and others receive a placebo do you make blends for specific conditions yeah have you ever thought of that i mean the daily the daily, you make like a, you know, kind of a general micronutrient vitamin. Do you make specific things for different issues? In a way, it turns out that we do. We don't have specific, well, we have additional products that we add as needed. And so we're creating our own blend by adding more relevant products so inositol for example is very useful to take the edge off anxiety do you combine that with choline with choline yes choline is excellent for racing thoughts and so it's individual reduction and obsession yes obsessions racing thoughts

Starting point is 00:09:08 yeah the the inositol is excellent for physical symptoms of anxiety and there's good research for it on its own in psychiatry but in synergy with other nutrients it seems that we don't need as much. Do you do anything with L-theanine? L-theanine? Yeah. Yes, in some cases that is very useful as an add-on. I was just curious. I mean, not that you should. Those are sums that we have seen a lot of good effect with treatment-resistant mood disorders.

Starting point is 00:09:41 Yes. Yeah, it can be very useful. And that is part of our clinical reference for health practitioners. We've compiled from experience with clinicians and patients over the years what seems to be most effective in different situations. And with anxiety, L-theanine, it can be very useful. So we have a protocol there to add. It can be different for different people. It needs to be optimized for dosage for different people, of course.

Starting point is 00:10:16 But we start with the base of the essential nutrients, and we add from there. So depending on the individual situation, some of those add-ons can be very useful and important. Could you speak briefly about some of the newer advancements? I mean, newer as in 20 years and some of these, but some of the newer information that we have about, one, bioavailability, two, taking precursors to get something that you want instead of just eating the thing that you want and then three um synergistic

Starting point is 00:10:50 the two things by themselves have an effect or no effect but combining them gives you none of the individual effects and a completely new one because there's a combination you know a lot of this stuff needs to be thought more of like baking soda and vinegar. You know, it's not that, you know, if you drink baking soda and vinegar, you have a total, if you eat a handful of baking soda and taste what that's like, and then you drink vinegar and you taste what that's like, that's nothing like mixing them together and drinking the thing that's just the water and salt left behind. I mean, there's a reaction. And, you know, obviously your liver metabolism and gut health is a little bit different than that. But, you know, a lot of the things that are not quite yet commercialized or not all the research is even available yet is saying, you know, if you seed the gut with the right thing, you know, because the gut is one of the only other places, the only other place other than our brain that has neurons. I mean, we have an enteric nervous system, which not a lot of people know.

Starting point is 00:11:40 So there's, and it's talking directly, you know, to the body brain. They say your gut is your second brain. And we know from experience that you have to have a healthy gut in order for the nutrients to uptake appropriately. As a matter of fact, if your gut is unhealthy, if you don't have the proper microbiome there, you can feed that nutrients and actually create more of a problem. It just feeds off of that stuff. So it's different than a medication. a medication gets into your bloodstream pretty quick we're talking about an ecosystem which i think is harder for people to understand

Starting point is 00:12:13 yeah than a pill yeah and harder to microbiome is a synergy effect the more complicated your treatment the more pushback you're going to get from research, you know, because you can't turn it into a number. You know, if I eat Welbutrin, I know exactly what that does to a neurotransmitter in 90% of people. If I'm saying, okay, what if the gut, this bacteria goes into the gut and then it takes root and then we rule out the people where it didn't actually respond to that. And then you feed that bacteria, this combination of thing, and then that produces a desirable byproduct i mean that's a lot bigger and harder of a study man i got to get my phd yes so as long as we can fit everything into one capsule we can do a study and it's not much different than studying food because food contains many factors and it's kind's the synergy of those factors that keep us healthy.

Starting point is 00:13:08 You know, if we're eating well, you know, so it's, it's really not a stretch, but the reality on the ground is research grants, for example, for so many years, for, for decades and say the last century, for example, for so many years, for decades, and say the last century, you know, there's been an explosion of science, but it's been one factor at a time. It's been researched. Which doesn't measure through two or three things working together. I mean, that's why to get these protocols, the biggest breakthroughs in mental health have not been when somebody came out with a new antipsychotic, because antipsychotics are very expensive to research. And so it's like these pharmaceutical companies, I'm trying to give general listeners a little bit of industry information about the assumptions you guys are acting on, you know, so that they understand this.

Starting point is 00:13:56 But like it's very easy to create a new statin, which is a cholesterol medication. That's why we have like 20 that we don't need because they're all about the same. You just play with a sugar molecule until you get it to be slightly different. I bonded this here and now I can patent it. It's a new thing. And so you, you fudge some research that says, Hey, this one's slightly better for your liver than all the other statins because statins are not great for your liver. And then, um, you, you know, two or three years into it, they do some more trials and realize that actually it's about the same as a torvastatin and all the ones that we already had. But by then it's generic anyways, you don't care.

Starting point is 00:14:29 And you get to advertise that to every like old guy that's sitting in front of the TV, you know, screaming at the news and like eating fried chicken. So like you make a bunch of money making a drug that we don't need. What we really need is antibiotics and antipsychotics because we have germ resistant bacteria and we have mental health conditions that are very hard to treat. You know, the majority of the people that I see for bipolar disorder that is treatment resistant and extremely genetic, you know, like it's been on, they've been on all of these different combinations of meds forever. The symptoms are never going to quite go away. We got rid of the trauma that was underneath the genetic expression, but the genetic expression,

Starting point is 00:15:02 even without the trauma is still very high. And that's where Hardy comes in and has been very helpful. Um, and so there's a huge resistance to researching these things. And when you're, you're, it's been pretty recent that they've started to research how things work together. And the biggest breakthrough in antipsychotics, which is come back to where I started is not that they came out with a new pill. I wish they did that. They need to do that. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to do. If you ever get one, it's going to be where there's some kind of socialized sector of research like in Switzerland. But the biggest breakthroughs have been when they discovered that when you take a mood stabilizer, an antisuppressant, an antidepressant, and an antipsychotic, and you combine them, that there is a synergistic effect

Starting point is 00:15:42 where they behave totally differently and it's able to stabilize a condition sometimes because you have a paradoxical reaction where you can't get any more anxious so then it pushes you back to your baseline sometimes where there's a combination in the brain that we don't really understand but it's been combinations of medication that have become the bigger breakthroughs in mental health not a new discovery we need new discoveries and we should fund those um and there's like a lot of corruption issues there that drive me nuts. But that this combining these things is very hard to study, which is why it took mainstream medicine so long to do it. And you guys are kind of on the frontier of doing this in a new way. I think research is not going to validate for a while because there's nothing in it for them, not because it isn't evidence-based. Yes, it's certainly not nearly the lucrative opportunity that patentable medications are. That's for sure. But we have researchers independent of our company who have done these blinded trials. And they do it because they care about solving the issues, the real issues at hand.

Starting point is 00:16:46 And it's not the quick get rich way. Let's leave the clinical psychology students, because it's never a clinical psychologist. It's always a clinical psychology student that just took their one-on-one class and has decided, I don't know what research is, you know, 10 years into my thing. It's like, I've run randomized controlled trials to do it i'm not bad at reading research i just know if i can replicate something in the room over and over again then that's the thing to follow but it's like they'll send you an email being like well this isn't 15 years old yet i don't know if you knew that like correct yeah well we've you, we've been doing the nutrient treatments and we call them treatments because they, they replace for ADHD. I mean, I definitely think you can get there with

Starting point is 00:17:47 nutrition where I'm really careful to talk about going off medication, even though I'm not a pill pusher, but I also am not totally anti-psychiatry. Schizophrenia and dopamine disorders, schizophrenia, obsessive compulsive, and bipolar disorder, you can lower your baseline some of the time, you know, but the odds that you're never going to need to be on that medication ever again, I think research really, you know, a lot of people get really angry with me because I can't tell them I can, oh, you can look at light and color and I'll do the pointer and we'll do somatic experiencing. You'll just never have schizophrenia again. That's just not how it works. And the psychotic break is so damaging to your, to your brain and to your, you know, practical reality that I just want to make clear that when you're talking about that, you're talking about, you know, addictive medication or medication that could be better treated with therapy and health.

Starting point is 00:18:32 You know, it's not in every condition. You know, you're not saying that you can, you know, 100% cure cancer, that you can remove that. Because then, you know, it's a mental health podcast. A lot of people say that. So I just want to qualify what you're saying. Right. Yes. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:18:43 It's psychiatric medications we're talking about and we can only remove the psychiatric medications insofar as the nutrients are effective in replacing the action of those medications yeah so you know it's not the same in every case but in the majority of cases, certainly we've seen with bipolar disorder, it looks very much like a treatment. Psychiatrists use it that way. At least we can choose different words and say that people can manage the rest of their life without symptoms by using nutrients alone. That's what we see and it's people can replace uh mood stabilizer medications with mood stabilizing nutrients which are what nature intended for mood stabilization uh you know to to regulate anxiety well and with

Starting point is 00:19:42 childhood with childhood issues everything's off-label anyway. If you've tried the two or three that are approved to be, you know, treatment-resistant bipolar in children, whatever you're being prescribed is not approved for what they're prescribing for anyway. They have to prescribe off-label because there's not anything there. Why not try the nutrition, you know? It's amazing, Joel.

Starting point is 00:20:02 Most of the people, I'd say 80% of the people that come to us are on a medication, an antidepressant, antipsychotic, or were just recently on one. So the principle that Jared's talking about, we've learned, it's actually a false positive. So this is what happens if a doctor's not involved and they just go to the internet, find our product, and they're on two or three medications. Let's throw a Fexor in there or Abilify, Wellbutrin, and they start taking our product. They're going to feel okay, maybe a little bit of a placebo. I'm excited to try something different, right? First week, second week.

Starting point is 00:20:35 Into the third week, they start feeling groggy and all these symptoms and the brain fog and maybe the electric shocks at the back of the neck, and they're like, what is going on? Well, the only thing I changed is I started taking this expensive vitamin mineral supplement so they stopped taking it and the electric shocks go away and they start thinking it'll bits the hot been that stuff but what is actually happening is if they went to the internet drugs comm rx list comm Google and they type in effects or over-medication side effects. They're going to find all those things that they're experiencing.

Starting point is 00:21:10 Are you talking about heart of dyskinesia? So what's happening is, yeah, the body's actually producing all the things that it needs for serotonin to occur properly. And it'd be like giving a person that doesn't need medication that medication what are they gonna feel you feel over medicated and so it's an indication that they need to start titrating off slowly some of those meds man you can't just drop them you have to go by one sixteenths one eighths you know and we've learned that over the years our our group has had to learn that and when someone comes to you and they're on 15 medications, which one do you work with first? We know if you're giving them the nutrients that their body needs, their mind, their synapses are going to start firing appropriately. I want to share my screen just for a moment just to kind of demonstrate, and this is well thought, well laid out in science. This is a tryptophan metabolism or serotonin synthesis.

Starting point is 00:22:15 Keep in mind, some people are going to be on the audio. So if you can just kind of qualify what you're talking about through the visuals, always nice to have for the video. Sure. There's a group of medications called SSRIs. They're selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. So they're a medication that affects the serotonin pathways. They don't actually make any more. They just sort of stop you from getting rid of what you've already made to keep, you know, a higher level in the brain, which can also cause some issues. And I mean, I'm on an SSRI, like I'm not anti, I just always am afraid of sounding like Alex Jones. I mean, this'm on an SSRI, like I'm not anti, I just always am afraid of sounding like Alex Jones. I mean, this stuff is science. It's not. Sure. But you can see here just in this

Starting point is 00:22:51 pathway, we got a riboflavin, vitamin B6, iron. We've got phosphorus in there. You know, there's a, there's a potassium. These are things that are, that are needed in these pathways in order to strip the fan or serotonin the proper way. When you don't have those things in your body to the proper levels, these are going to suffer. So medications in that sense can come in and help that. But what happens when you're giving your body all that it needs, it's going to start. It's like a map, right? Your body just needs ingredients to follow the map and once it it's not fast uh vitamins and minerals do not happen quick you know quickly but once it starts taking effect and you've still got

Starting point is 00:23:36 the chemical in there medication in there there's there's a contra you know you've got to choose one or the other um i don't know if I'm explaining that very well, Jared. Yes, this is a critical concept. And I appreciate you delving into this, Corey, because this is so critical to what we do. What we try to do there with all of these medication interaction effects we've dealt with is we work directly with clinicians. We leave the medications as much as possible squarely on the shoulders of the experts who are trained to manage medications. We need to train them about the interaction effects occurring between nutrients and medications. Corey delved into a pharmacodynamic interaction effect. That is, as the nutrients act in the body

Starting point is 00:24:39 to change the underlying issues of the condition, the medication is needed less and less. The body doesn't need as much manipulation when the underlying issues are solved. And so we see that with many... The blend changes, the idea of just a daily multivitamin that works for 100% of the people 100% of the time, no matter what's happening is it's kind of a misnomer. No, and we're not claiming that's happening for sure. No, I mean, what you're saying is, you know, when I'm the first day on trying to change lifestyle and doing micronutrition, once I restart some of these metabolic pathways or

Starting point is 00:25:16 build back up precursors, I mean, a lot of different things, I'm oversimplifying it, but that you're going to need something different a month in, then you're going to need seven months in, which makes sense to me, you know, more so than it works for everything all the time. Yes. So we need to replete individuals who need to be repleted of nutrients for functions to work optimally. And these nutrients are needed in every cell of the body. And they work together naturally. So the synergistic effect of all of the essential nutrients, we're talking about all of the vitamins, all of the essential minerals, omega fatty acids, and amino acids. We supply all of those. The products are produced and distributed in the United States with very high quality ingredients. You talked about bioavailability is evidenced in results. That's what we focus on.

Starting point is 00:26:30 So the blinded trials, independent of us, none of these are paid for by our company. The researchers are arm's length. They have independent funding. They just publish what they find and it does not show that everyone is miraculously well but the longer people take it with with the blinded trials and the follow-ups from the blinded trials number one it's safe there's there are no side effect differences. You're not going to build tolerance to it. That's unheard of with any psychiatric medication.

Starting point is 00:27:10 It's a night and day difference in terms of side effects. And for that reason alone, many parents and individuals just prefer it hands down. The stability is greater than what medications can offer actually over time we don't need to find a new treatment because the old one stopped working as it was before and that's a common thing in psychiatric pharmacologic treatment you know it needs careful management. And the nutrients help people manage eventually on their own. They just take nutrients. And there are factors in their lives like sleep and managing stress and so on. They're always relevant.

Starting point is 00:28:00 Those are always important. Diet. Those are synergistic effects. But when we have a foundation of nutrients, those things are much easier to manage. People can shop for healthy foods, prepare them. They can get out of bed to do this. So it's really critical to have the synergy that we need. Excuse me for a second here. My battery is running low. A lot of what you were showing on that diagram and what you guys are talking about is, you know, the newer, not just nutrition, but, you know, all medications. Now they're doing this for psychoactive medications and to try and see how genetic testing could inform, you know, what you're prescribed. But there is the idea of metabolic pathways, that it isn't just that you take the thing, now it goes into your body, now you have the thing. It's that, you know, there's going to be a tree of, if you have the right thing to combine it with, it's going to react to this, and then you have that thing. So when you're trying

Starting point is 00:29:11 to control five or six different reactions to make sure it ends up in the right place, you know, that's the science that takes a while and that you have to be careful with. I mean, one example is if a lot of people say, okay, for dopamine disorders, you want to go take huge doses of, you know, B12, and you can't absorb B12 very well orally. So get the kind that stays under your tongue that sublingually goes directly into your blood. Well, you know, the two ways that you can get that are cyanocobalamin and methocobalamin because your body's going to take that and it's going to have a reaction to it. Now, if you're taking cyanocobalamin, which is the cheaper form that's going to be, you know, the store brand a lot of the time, then that is producing cyanide.

Starting point is 00:29:49 And the FDA would say, OK, well, that cyanide that it's making is beneath the level that would matter. So it's fine. But, you know, until I'm caught behind enemy lines, you know, I don't really want to eat cyanide personally. So I'm going to buy the methylcobalamin. But, you know, how many people know this stuff or understand it? I mean, and that's one pathway for a relatively simple vitamin, you know. Oh, did we lose Jared? I think we lost Jared there. But I'll segue off of that to what we were initially talking about. It's true.

Starting point is 00:30:17 Doctors years ago would say vitamins and minerals don't work. They're just expensive urine, you know. And you can actually see it. It's way more. And I was like, well, my, but man, look, my cholesterol changed. And he was like, wow. But what's, what's, what's different in our product is most multivitamins take just a couple hours in manufacturing. Okay.

Starting point is 00:30:39 Put together our mineral blend just alone takes several days. And what we do is we take the minerals and we make them so that they're organic in nature, similar to what you find in broccoli. And that's chelation. And we have a special type of chelation. You can get chelated products in the health food store. Usually they're expensive because it's hard. It takes a process to do. Can you explain chelation, the difference in that? Go ahead, Jared, yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:08 I'll take a stab at that. So there are natural chelators in nature. And what are the process? Just scientifically, chemistry, what is chelation? Yes, so chelators are binding minerals. The stabilizers. And some chelators are very strong chelators. Key laters are binding minerals. Stabilize them. Some key laters are very strong key laters.

Starting point is 00:31:32 And so they bind minerals and deprive our body of them. You can bind it so strong that your body can't get it off of what you're using to stabilize it. It's like with the yard when you've got, you know, if you do forestry, there's like sand will let the water be pulled out of the ground but it won't hold any water so there's as soon as you dump the water on the plant it's gone clay will hold water for 10 years but the problem is the plant will hold it so well that the plants can't get it out so you need this kind of blend of sand and clay in the middle in order to be stable enough and that's you know the moving target that you guys are trying to hit for the most amount of people the most amount of time. Good analogy.

Starting point is 00:32:05 Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. We need a reversible chelation. So it's bound and delivered to the body and the natural chelators do that. There are multiple forms of natural chelators. In fruits, we have malic acid, we have citric acid, we have other organic acids that can serve as chelators. And there are natural chelators in soil as well.

Starting point is 00:32:37 And they help the body, the plant rather, uptake minerals. The fungi are, are, you know, breaking down the rock form minerals into forms of the plants can use. All of these natural chelators are quite complex. And we're just trying to recreate that the best we can with our proprietary Nutratech chelation complex. We're creating for all of the minerals. This is just a process for minerals, not vitamins. We're trying to bind the minerals so they can be delivered more optimally to the body. That's the key for bioavailability. And it's bulky.

Starting point is 00:33:23 So the blinded trials are done using 12 capsules per day and the majority of that is is the bulk of macro minerals calcium phosphorus magnesium there's just one way to make it small we're delivering yeah our bodies need them in gram amounts every day and so it takes quite a few capsules to deliver those. But they're effective. For example, magnesium has a lot of overlap in mechanisms, an astounding overlap in mechanisms with lithium. And lithium is used as a mood stabilizer, and has been for decades in psychiatry. You know, we replace lithium entirely in most cases. In some cases, people use less than 20 milligrams of lithium together with the daily essential nutrients.

Starting point is 00:34:16 And I'm talking about psychiatrists. It's useful. Lithium, we have a very small amount of lithium in our product, one milligram in those 12 capsules that have been studied. And that's about as much as people will get in food and water each day. We have some lithium that we intake every day. And there's some fascinating research about how that helps with mood stabilization. So we're treating it as a trace mineral. But magnesium seems to do the bulk of the job.

Starting point is 00:34:49 Lithium in pharmacologic levels, as used in psychiatry, seems to be a poor substitute, if I can say it that way, for the designed action of magnesium. So as soon as we start giving the body the levels of magnesium that really take care of that mood stabilization in a more effective way, people feel like themselves. With lithium, they don't. They have plenty of side effects. They feel headaches and tremor. It's difficult to find just the right level and to have them feel like themselves. With magnesium, with the full set of nutrients, I should say,

Starting point is 00:35:33 including magnesium, we, it's critical to have a balance of magnesium and calcium, sodium, potassium, our bodies are designed to have these nutrients from food and they're present in a natural balance. You know, there's a reasonable balance that soils and plants throughout the world will give us. In some places, for example, iodine is deficient in soil that needs to be supplemented somehow. Or, you you know we need to have foods from other areas where the iodine is not deficient in order to avoid deficiency of iodine similar with selenium and with other trace minerals so it helps to have a broad variety of foods in our diet to meet all these needs that's kind of that's what we're doing with the nutrients we're ensuring that the body has all of these nutrients at recommended levels and it they function so that's the synergy aspect

Starting point is 00:36:31 that you asked um if we could address um you know you could think of the the functions of the body working together like a dam holding back water. When the dam leaks and breaks, our level of function is lowered in different ways. in our research is look at the number of people who don't meet just the minimum requirements to avoid deficiency disorders. That's the recommended dietary allowance. And that's only good for 97 to 98% of individuals in theory. They estimate an average need, they go up a couple of standard deviations, and in theory, that will meet the needs of 97 to 98% of apparently healthy individuals. What we believe from our experience, we're working with the tail of that bell curve. So people who are not meeting their needs, even at rda levels yeah but the reality is not people many people are not even getting the rda levels and so it's not just that two percent of people who are deficient

Starting point is 00:37:55 in these nutrients and it's not just one nutrient they're deficient in they're chronically low in these nutrients. And so it becomes really useful to use a supplement to top up these levels. The Institute of Medicine in creating these levels stated that the RDA would not be deemed sufficient to replete individuals previously undernourished. That's the situation we have in our countries. We eat a lot of calories, but they're often nutrient poor calories, not nutrient dense. And so, you know, it's a slower process. We could try to eat more nutrient dense foods to replete ourselves. And that's useful still, absolutely useful. But it helps to pop up these essential nutrients with a supplement. It happens more quickly from our experience.

Starting point is 00:38:50 And then people can manage with an improved diet much more effectively. We find people's needs for the nutrients are variable depending on the nature of their diet, the nature of gut health, nature of genetics. Some people have a higher genetic need for certain nutrients, and that's reflected in what the Institute of Medicine displays as a bell curve of nutrient needs. Some people, you know, the majority of people need that average need that they estimate, and some people need higher than that. And so in a famine, some people will fare better than others. We've seen this in real life. In the Dutch famine, for example,

Starting point is 00:39:40 there were higher rates of mental disorders documented. It's well documented there. And who had those mental disorders? Presumably, those who are more genetically susceptible or who have poor gut health. And of course, those who did not have quite as good a diet. What they're eating may not have been quite as nutrient dense. Can you extrapolate a little bit, Jared, for those that are listening and might not understand what happened in Holland, World War II, and why that happened? Yeah, so I think it's a useful case study for what's happening in a larger way in our society. You know, we think of a situation of famine. And we think, you know, that's, that's extreme. None of us are starving. Right. But we are starving for

Starting point is 00:40:37 essential nutrients. That's what many people don't realize. The calories in one sixth of total calories in the United States of America is from sugars. There are zero nutrients in those refined sugars. So all of us immediately, that's one sixth of our total calories. Yeah. More than that. Not contributing to our nutrient needs. And then there are added fats in addition to that. Those are very calorie dense and nutrient poor when they're refined. So what we really need is the whole food with the nutrient dense minerals and vitamins from those plants. Well, and we evolved to seek out things that contained salt sugar and fat and then yes because of starvation and ice ages and droughts where we needed to carry weight and

Starting point is 00:41:32 now we're in a position where you know we can just pull salt sugar and fat out of any vending machine and all of a sudden um you know what our what our what our body feels like it wants is not actually what it needs and to explain the complexity of what you guys are doing, it's like, you know, if the car is reliable, you know, human, humanity is on every continent other than Antarctica. I mean, we're one of the most diverse and what we're able to, you know, as a species and what we're able to live through and live on and live around, you know, and so the genes are different globally because, you know,

Starting point is 00:42:04 people live in different areas and now, you know, we can get on airplanes. All of a sudden, you know, and so the genes are different globally because, you know, people live in different areas and now, you know, we can get on airplanes all of a sudden, you know, it's not like you can feed everyone in this one region. Like they evolved the same, you know, if somebody needs to be able to synthesize vitamin D and they're from Norway, their skin is a little bit lighter. If that's where the gene pool came from, then somebody who needed to protect against skin cancer and block out the sun and have more melanin in their skin, you know, in the equatorial place, you know, so there's all that together. And you're trying to say, okay, this works for the most people, the most of the time I'm suspicious of anybody that says their thing works for everybody all the time. That's kind of, you catch the grip. Um,

Starting point is 00:42:37 and you're trying to make that work, but that is complicated because just because we're living and alive and whatever, it doesn't really mean we're getting what we need. I mean, like you can take a Toyota Camry or a geo tracker and just, you know, beat the hell out of it and never change the belt and never change the oil and probably get 250,000 miles on it. You know, the radio doesn't work or whatever, but you can do that to the car and it's still going, but it, you know, it is the car as a person metaphor. like we don't feel good we don't think clearly we're not in a good mood we're not achieving our potential right um we're not treating our mental health we're spending all this money on therapy we're spending all this money on

Starting point is 00:43:13 whiskey we're spending money on weed yes you know and then those have some secondary effects too that we treat a top level symptom but make the bottom level symptom worse right that's worse yeah i love that so much love that analogy so i wanted to go a step further with this and talk about salmon in our day glyphosate roundup in farming is just poured on crops yeah glyosulfate there's essentially there's studies where one third of a pound of glyphosate runs into lake erie for example from every acre in the lake erie watershed every year it's it's poured onto the land on crops and and there's it's sprayed on even spot treat anymore i mean just so people are familiar with what this works round Roundup is glyosulfate, and glyosulfate is cancer for plants. What you were doing was making cells mutate, just like cancer, to where there is no more, what's it called? There's no more telomere on the cell. And so it is just replicating until the plant kills itself with tumors.

Starting point is 00:44:19 So that's how you kill plants, which we used to say, okay, well, if there's a little weed in your yard, you get the spray bottle and spray it on it. We don't do that anymore. Okay. What we do now is we say we're going to grow Roundup Ready crops that Monsanto owns. There is a patent on that seed. So if you go and pick some of the seeds off that corn, you just broke patent law because the Supreme Court has said that you can patent life now, which is kind of an insane thing. And so this, they own that genetic structure and you cannot be a farmer and make any money unless you're growing this potato, this corn.

Starting point is 00:44:55 So it's all the same thing that you're eating, right? And we don't spot treat weeds. What they do is they grow Roundup Ready plants whose DNA have been developed to resist this poison that causes plant cancer. And then we pour it on all of it. And you're lit. Yes. Just because it was genetically resistant to the crap. That's our system.

Starting point is 00:45:17 Right. And people... Sorry. Sorry to interrupt. I've been interrupting you guys a lot. Like non-GMO foods. And that's a good thing in this situation. You know, we don't want, and what we really want, though, is Roundup free foods. Because there are non-GMO crops that are also sprayed with Roundup right before harvest.

Starting point is 00:45:41 Fields of oats and wheat. And those are staple crops. Even if we're trying to eat a good whole food diet, including those whole grains, we could be depriving ourselves of minerals in a significant way because glyphosate, the active ingredient there is a patented mineral chelator. That's what it was first patented for.

Starting point is 00:46:05 It's very effective. Speaking with a plant pathologist from Purdue University who spent his career after World War II researching the effects of these sprays on plants, he made a very fascinating statement. This is Dr. Don Huber. And he's done some fascinating research and presented some of this information about glyphosate and its damaging effects.

Starting point is 00:46:31 Much of that research is not his own, but he's compiled it and presented it. He made a very interesting statement based on his personal career, his own career researching plants and the chemicals the chemical effects on plants he said i don't know of any herbicide that's not a mineral chelator that's a incredibly important statement in my mind too like it's not it is it isn't uh um it is not a pesticide that is not uptaken into the plant's system. It is. So whether or not the plant dies of plant cancer doesn't mean it's not in there chelating things.

Starting point is 00:47:11 And you're, you're saying, I was saying glyosulfate later, cause I'm running into the problem that I had when I was like eight, where I was like reading above my reading level. So I'd say subtle. Cause I was reading things that I hadn't heard people say, you know, I didn't know how to pronounce it. So, you know, you curl't know how to pronounce it. So, you know, you curl up with scientific journals by the fire. That's the other thing that makes me frustrated is the people who send me

Starting point is 00:47:30 emails saying that I don't know how to read research, typically read less research than I read. But so I'm anyway, thank you for correcting me because I read this stuff, but there's not a ton of people that are willing to talk about it with me. My wife. Yeah, no problem. The concept is what's really important. And that is, you know, when we're intaking the sprays that are depleting us of minerals on a daily basis, we have a famine. We have a very real famine of minerals, essential minerals that we need. And so that's in addition to food choices.

Starting point is 00:48:12 So we're already cutting out a lot of minerals by refined flour, for example, by added sugars and fats in our foods. And we need these minerals for function. What we're finding is we're just getting to that threshold like in the dutch famine where people can't handle such a low level of nutrition that's what we seem to see people we don't know what's making us sick we think we need more pills and and it's not even like we need a supplement or something we just need food we need nutrients right there's all those nutrients in the cell it's not like okay well you need Hornet venom because you're low on whatever. It's just like your body is designed to have a lot of micronutrients doing things in cell walls and microglia in myelin, uh, in your liver. And if you don't have that, you feel bad and you keep

Starting point is 00:48:59 being like, Oh, I need to go to gym. I need to go to therapy and buy this product. And it's, it's not that it's just ground up. If you don't have this stuff in your body you can't make cells work it's what we're made out of like if you were to boil us down you get a bunch of water and you'd have a little pile of what what is that and you know our body is made out of it so if you give your body the ingredients that it's made out of it has a map in it and it will we find that it repairs itself over time like if you cut yourself the body is going to send some white blood cells it's going to create a right it's good it knows what to do but the body needs the ingredients and we're not we're not anti-pharma but you know uh abilify a body like that's not like what if you boil it down like that's not what it's made out.

Starting point is 00:49:48 And when you give your body what it's made out of and it starts to fix itself and start getting all these neural pathways going, the synapses start firing properly. It's a wonderful thing to see. Jared says they start feeling like themselves. Normal. Yes. You know, it's yes. People feel like they come out of a fog they they have clarity of mind they have stable moods you know they're still of course the

Starting point is 00:50:16 regular emotions that we feel it doesn't blunt emotion like people describe with medication with psychiatric medications in many cases but you know it's just great to have the option. You know, we're not anti-medication, but many people choose to give the nutrients a try and even try them first before medications. And we found that that's very useful. And, you know, so... When you're ready for therapy, you're ready for therapy when your brain is working. I mean, it's like so much of the stuff that's environmental, I can't really change. And

Starting point is 00:50:47 even brain-based medicine, which is working on the brain's desire for, you know, the parasympathetic and sympathetic to re-sync and this, you know, to get trauma out of the sub-brain. I mean, what's the thing that all the brain-based medicine practitioners tell you if you go do QEG brain mapping or neurostimulation, or you go do brain spotting, or you go do emotional transformation therapies, drink a lot of water, you know, increase neuroplasticity, get some rest, drink water, eat healthy for the next 12 hours so that you're, you can actually build new neural net connections. Yes. Yes. In that way, I'll go a step further here. So we've talked about vitamins and minerals, and it's pretty clear based on what's happened in a in on a large scale that we need minerals we've seen that those are key in therapy we find amino acids enhance

Starting point is 00:51:34 effects as well so we we try to provide provide a foundation of all the essential nutrients for human needs and and so we have the vitamins and minerals in our daily essential nutrients product. We add omega fatty acids to ensure the brain has those. Those are essential. And then we add amino acids, especially when there's healing to be done in the body. When the body's expressing genes and needing to change receptors. That's all the work of amino acids. So what we've done is we've adopted another aspect of nature. We've tried to just go right straight to nature.

Starting point is 00:52:18 And what we've done is we've combined free form amino acids, both the essential ones and the non-essential ones, in the same ratios as in mother's milk. And the remarkable thing about this is when we did the research, mother's milk in Thailand and Japan and Europe and Africa is almost identical in amino acids, very little variation. It's by design. It's a level of amino acids for human needs. And so we just decided we can't find anything better than that. So we're giving that ratio of amino acids in a pill, and people use it for healing from concussions, healing from trauma. And we rely on practitioners doing the work of therapy to get those neurons connecting. Just the nutrients by themselves, in this case, you could see, are not enough. We need to fire those neurons together and wire them together. The firing happens with therapy and the wiring happens with the help of amino acids.

Starting point is 00:53:36 As well as vitamins and minerals and omega fatty acids, they all need to be there. We're not just choosing one among these, and that's key to the outcome. I don't want to take up y'all's whole day with this. We really appreciate you sitting down and giving information, you know, that helps people make a more informed decision about different things. But can you say anything about microglia? Have you looked at any of the newer research on the brain mechanisms that looks like maybe Alzheimer's and different things, why some of the things that work work and why some of the things that we will invent in the future might work better for brain health or like

Starting point is 00:54:16 myelin in the brain, anything with the neuroplasticity, are you familiar with those? Right. So I'll just speak in more general terms here. The glial cells are providing support for those neurons, nutritional support. And where is that coming from? Well, you need to have it in your body in the first place. And then those cells will function as they should. You know, we focus on neurons a lot, but there's a lot happening there.

Starting point is 00:54:53 So I would just say in general terms, we're just providing the raw materials. The body does its magic. It would be fascinating to see what changes come in scanning studies, in brain mapping. We have the QAG Brain Mapping Clinic. We are looking in the future. I mean, I'm not anywhere where you can do it now, but Deanna and Jay don't have the aversion to academia and publishing that I have. They both have dual degrees, PhD, whatever.

Starting point is 00:55:19 And so it may be something in the future we could start to look at. Does the key change just with supplementation? Yes future we could start to look at. Does the QE change just with supplementation? Yes, we'd love to do that. We are open to research with our supplements and others. We've worked with clinics doing QEG, and they find patterns that change the nutrients so that they can find, they can identify patients for whom the nutrients will work very well. And it's a broad set of patients based on the patterns they're finding the nutrients. And it's not going to hurt, you know,

Starting point is 00:55:59 it's not going to hurt them. You know, there's not a doubt if you try it and it doesn't help you, then stop taking it. I mean, it's not like you're going to withdraw. It's not going to hurt them. You know, there's not a down, if you try it and it doesn't help you, then stop taking it. I mean, it's not like you're going to withdraw. It's not, there's, there's not a huge downside. Um, and you know, it's expensive nutrients, but there's not a giant initial investment, you know, like there are with some of these other things. And you guys were talking about people who are able to go in and then, you know, tear down off of, you know, some mood stabilizers and antipsychotics, you know, or, you know, mood stabilizers and antidepressants. But it's like, how much of that is just a total misdiagnosis anyway, that you're skipping when somebody is coming to treat it that way, instead of going through the doctor, getting on the drug, doing this. I mean, how much of it

Starting point is 00:56:39 isn't even the nutrition as much as that you didn't have? Because I mean, like when I was first starting out, you know, we have kind of a pretty specific referral pathway now, but when I was first starting out, I would get referrals from psychiatrists that are like, this person's on a horse dose of antidepressants. It's an 80 pound woman. I can't put her on anymore. You know, I mean, this is kind of my proverbial, obviously they're not on, you know, a horse dose of medication, but they're like, I can't raise that, you know, sedative anymore. So you need to go to a therapist for anxiety. Well, what goes on in your house? What's your routine look like? Well, my husband beats me. Okay. Well, I'm not going to do Zen meditation while you're experiencing domestic abuse. We can talk about why you're, uh, you don't feel like you

Starting point is 00:57:17 can get out of this situation or you don't think you deserve to, or we can talk about practically what you can do. And, you know, we have referrals for different things to support you and education about the cycle balance, all this stuff, right. That is the right way to go. And we're medicating that because somebody said, are you anxious? Check. Is the anxiety show up this way? Check. All right. DSM five definition, Matt, moving on. Like the environment is the, which I mean, the DSM says you should check the environment, but they don't do it um you know and yes and we're so quick to medicate that person who goes yeah you know you're looking at um all the things that the doctor is not checking for like what's going on with their body what's going on there um yes so a lot of this anyway short version is a ton of people on these medications it's not appropriate

Starting point is 00:58:02 for them or they don't even need it. They just need to talk to somebody. We do medication first and therapy later if you run out, if the medication doesn't work. Half the people that go to effective therapy need less or they don't need the medication. We've had to create a support center over the years, kind of like a call center, and teach staff to talk about a few things to help them along. And the other side of our business is scientists like Jared, Taryn, and Dallin. They teach doctors. So doctors will come in, and they'll ask their questions. We'll consult with them.

Starting point is 00:58:36 We have modules that we just teach the ABC principles that we've learned over the last 23 years. They're not difficult, but they're not taught in universities. They just aren't, at least to the extent that we've learned over the last 23 years. They're not difficult, but they're not taught in universities. They just aren't, at least to the extent that we teach them. We have wellness advisors if people aren't working with their doctor and just wanna talk with people, ask questions. And we encourage people to call in

Starting point is 00:58:58 and find out everyone's a little bit different, okay? And it's amazing what nutrition can do, but it's also amazing what stops nutrition from working, you know. So we talk a little bit about those principles. Yes. There actually are, you know, Corey mentions that these things have not been covered. There's very little nutrition instruction for medical doctors, for example.

Starting point is 00:59:26 Because it's not patentable. And the person who's teaching them doesn't know it, and they're taught by going into a hospital. And I mean, when I was in outpatient social work and we're a sort of community treatment team, so we got the worst of the worst cases of people in the state that were actively psychotic and going to ERs all the time,

Starting point is 00:59:43 and we're trying to engage them. Like part of my job at that point was to have medical students in my car for part of their residency to teach or not residency. What there's part of their, when they're students to teach them, that was part of their psych rotation. And they liked it because the psych rotation in the ER is kind of boring, but that was like, so many were like, why don't they teach me this in the hospital? Or I can't wait to get out of the hospital so I can learn the way that other things do it. Cause we, we don't think about how much of their school that it's, we think it's all textbook and tests and they come out and they know everything. I mean, a lot of it is just following another doctor around garbage in garbage out,

Starting point is 01:00:15 you know, like if the doctor from 1980 wasn't trained well and isn't doing a good job. And then you put a student with them and tell the student to follow them around, what are they learning? You know? And I mean, really all the students that were bright and fun, they understood these systems. We had these conversations while they're in my car and they were like, how do you know this stuff and where did you learn it? And I could give them different resources, but they're medical students, you know, nearing the end of their thing. Talking to a social worker that's been out of school for an hour and, you know, is has enough obsession to read all night long instead of sleeping. Like what what is our system? Right. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:00:54 So it's it's changing there. There are many psychiatrists we've trained over the years, primary care doctors, nurse practitioners, as well as therapists of many kinds. And we're grateful for all of them. They come with a wealth of knowledge, right? And they can apply that knowledge in the case of medications in a critical way. For example, they're not trained to take people off medications, nearly like they're trained to put them on medications. Um, we'll just talk to them. I don't know if they need the medication. We don't even do that anymore. It's like, right. We shifted medicine to billable services, which, and so with psychiatry, the free market is frustrated because it's like, where's the service? You're not doing an operation.

Starting point is 01:01:41 So it's, you know, we talk to you for anywhere from five to 15 minutes and then put you on a pill. That is not enough time. You don't know me. You don't know what's going on. You know what I want you to know. You know, you don't know if I'm smart enough to trick you. You don't know if I feel like I'm not allowed to say this stuff because of the household I came from. You don't know if my self-image is lining up with my actual, you don't know any of this stuff. Right. You know, the screener about domestic abuse and do i fall in my house and all the stuff that you your reliability management team made me do i spend more time doing that than i do bliss talking to a doctor and the doctors don't read that stuff the crp is supposed to go through it and see if maybe i'm getting a view they don't you know right if there's anything

Starting point is 01:02:20 that's appropriate in in with that approach from our perspective it's nutrients because everyone needs these essential nutrients and you can talk with a person for 10 or 15 minutes and say i wonder if you're needing some more essential nutrients let's try that it won't hurt you know uh in the case of using them together with medications it needs to be carefully monitored because there are medication effects that can increase over medication. Are there any contraindications? Like I'm not a medical doctor, so nothing I'm saying is medical advice. You guys have different training, but you're not acting as SMDs on here, you know, but like if I'm on, you know, blood

Starting point is 01:03:01 thinners, whatever, can I just go grab a hearty product? Do I need to know anything about doctor indications? You do. And we recommend that people work, if they're taking any prescription medication, that they work with a prescribing clinician in the process. And we have a map we've created. We've worked with, trained many prescribing clinicians and those who are accepting patients may choose to list their practice on our website and we have a find a locator i find a health professional locator and it it includes therapists of many kinds and nurse practitioners medical doctors psychiatrists and you, you know, a person

Starting point is 01:03:46 can search for what they're looking for in a practitioner. But, you know, they need to go through individually with a practitioner to assess their needs. It really is. It's more than just throw the essential nutrients at people. And we get a clear, consistent response with everybody. With many people, especially when they're unmedicated, if they try it first, before they use medications, it's a much simpler road. And many people are very pleased with the results. Sometimes it requires some extra expertise. You mentioned L-theanine and acetylcysteine might be useful and other things. Well, a lot of people, they want the product that has the ECCG in it, but the pure green tea extract has a lot of caffeine.

Starting point is 01:04:46 And the best way to come off of Adderall is not to just take a ton of caffeine. Now, L-theanine is able to stimulate focus without being a stimulant. Excellent. Yeah. And we, you know, this is a good point. Even substances like caffeine, marijuana, nicotine, we've seen significant interactions with. And so an individual doing this on their own can get interference effects from these things. So the good news here is people who are drinking multiple cups of coffee or tea a day for the caffeine effect to keep themselves energized find over time they don't need to use as much. That's what we've

Starting point is 01:05:33 observed. We actually have a blinded trial, a randomized double-blind placebo-controlled trial with cigarette cessation using daily essential nutrients. This was done in New Zealand. They found the most robust effect of the trial was they smoked less over time. And the initial observation was not just cigarettes, but marijuana as well. People would spontaneously just lower the amount they were using. But you're just falling asleep naturally. You know, I reach for whatever you're reaching for. Yeah. falling asleep naturally you know I reach for your whatever you're reaching for yeah so the good news is people tend not to feel the need as much or these substances over time as they use nutrients you have any evidence from any of the studies you've done that it changes the gammaBA. Interesting. Well, that's interesting.

Starting point is 01:06:26 We don't have that specifically. That would be my guess. That's probably why it changes the effect of the medication as well, or it changes the effect of marijuana use or something as well. Yes. We see plenty of evidence that it would be effective if we were to study that specifically. And we're not like a pharmaceutical company with millions of dollars, billions of dollars to pour into this research. And we're not really interested in doing that. We want an independent investigation. Well, yeah, I mean, that's like we're so obsessed with like the, um, the quality of the study internally,

Starting point is 01:07:09 but we don't look at the external system, which is real frustrating to me. I mean, it's like, yeah, they were incredibly, um, the research design was flawless and what, um, uh, these cigarette companies use for 20 years to prove that we really just can't figure out if there's any link between cigarettes and cancer. I mean, that research was so high quality. Some of the best PhDs in the world are on that stuff. Sure. Right. The good news here is we have medications that we're replacing with nutrients, GABAergic medications. And so we have strong evidence from our perspective.

Starting point is 01:07:51 If you're to consult with psychiatrists who have used this for many years, they would say there's strong evidence that we're affecting GABA. What do nutrients not affect in the body? That's the real question. It's nothing. Everything is affected by nutrients. And that's a huge difference between a magic bullet approach of a medication, even a few different medications used together. There are very limited mechanisms of action involved. With nutrients, there are a multitude of mechanisms known and many really sparsely known. Vitamin K has receptors in the brain. You mentioned a blood clotting

Starting point is 01:08:36 medication. That's an interaction that could happen with blood clotting medications. Vitamin K could be involved. We have vitamin K in our product, so it's not a good idea just to add the nutrients. Curcumin is another one you don't really want to take with the blood. Right. So these things need to be carefully monitored. Noxacil can also make your medication anywhere from 40 to 12 times more effective if that's one that it slows down the liver processing of, which is not people getting trouble. Yes, that is a major interaction. So Corey went through the pharmacodynamic interaction where the nutrients are used in the body. We're building the base of nutrients and more serotonin is produced and it's regulated better. More dopamine is produced, it's regulated better.

Starting point is 01:09:23 And all of those functions require nutrients. In addition to that, the liver enzymes and intestinal enzymes, cytochrome P450 enzymes, are a major source of interactions with medications. We speak with medical doctors all the time. This catches their attention. They know they need to monitor medication levels when they learn, and many of them have not. They don't have it on their radar, at least, that the synergy effect of these nutrients used together is known to affect medications. Even taking nutrients separately, considering them separately, vitamin D inhibits nine different cytochrome P450 enzymes that we've found in the literature. And it includes all of the major ones, CYP3A4, CYP2D6. is listed as a moderate or a major interaction effect with different medications involving

Starting point is 01:10:27 cytochrome p450-384 that's the most common one used to process medications in the body and 2d6 these enzymes are actually naturally used for vitamin d itself that Some of them are called vitamin D3 hydroxylase. That's the name of the enzyme. It's used for vitamin D in the body, but the medications come along and the body uses the same enzyme. So it's a competitive effect. The body can't clear the medication as quickly because vitamin D is there. Now you think of the implications here seasonally. Many people in the United States have vitamin D produced in the skin if they're outside. Many people are not, but if they're outside, they can have a lot more vitamin D in the summertime than in the wintertime. They might be over-medicated in the summertime because the vitamin D is blocking the excretion of medication's metabolism.

Starting point is 01:11:28 So the medication builds up in their bloodstream. People say eventually, after a few days out in the sun, they say, I don't feel well in the sun. They think there's something with the sun. Well, I think this might be a mechanism involved. Vitamin D is increasing, and it's increasing the side effects of medications. As a result, more medication is being kept in the body. It's not able to be processed and excreted. And so in the wintertime, the opposite could happen.

Starting point is 01:11:57 Right? Vitamin D levels are low. A person might be lacking medication. They might feel more depressed on their antidepressant in the wintertime when they're not producing as much vitamin D. So you have these fluctuations. I think those are very real. And a person can smooth those out by supplementing with vitamin D and keeping a more constant level throughout the year. But the good news is they could also achieve the ideal in our experience.

Starting point is 01:12:29 Well, in a lot of natural conditions, I'm sorry, go ahead. There's kind of a... Gradually lowering the medication over time with the help of a prescribing clinician, right? And eventually what we find is the optimal dose of medication is zero. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:12:45 Well, and there's a million examples, but if you go through kind of older, you know, ancient world traditions, a ton of this stuff was just naturally figuring out how to manage these things. A lot of food culture is around that, you know, um, it was relatively modern, you know, that they started to make sauerkraut so that people didn't get scurvy on boats because you could keep sauerkraut, but you couldn't really keep citrus fruits. Right. I mean, even going back like the ancient Vikings, I mean, you drink mead in the wintertime. Um, and the mead there is different than what we're making now. When you use honey must, and a lot of the natural stuff, you end up with vitamin K and vitamin D and probiotics that you're not getting as much sun you know in the in the winter because it's cold and to survive in norway you got to be in the meat hauler you know the pit with the fire um whereas in the summer you're out on the on the ocean so you know a ton of those

Starting point is 01:13:40 things are just the society left alone you, naturally figures out how to kind of regulate itself. And it comes up with ways to make these things tradition, even if we don't know why. But a lot of how we sort of are failing to have a myth or guiding principle or any sort of, you know, cultural center in the modern world. We lose all that stuff. And then we don't know why we feel bad. And you guys are part of the project of trying to rebuild those things and and money makes it difficult okay yeah i mean that's the problem yeah if you look you talk about citrus and scurvy on the boats a lot of people have heard about that how long do you think it took them to mandate that over a

Starting point is 01:14:21 hundred years since they first found it out so sometimes things are a little bit slow and but there we talk a lot about science stuff here but there's so much stuff beyond the you know the metabolism and all the vitamins and the lithium whatever it is you got the mom that's sick and tired of going to the principal's office because her kids can't can't be handled in school right and then the mom decides to try this and a month or two later you know some things really start changing and the kid doesn't visit the principal's office anymore you know and we've been doing this for 23 years we got just about 40 medical journal publications 40 of them and the evidence is pretty clear, at least to me, that if you give your body what it needs, that it will repair itself. Nutrition isn't the fast train, but it's the right track to be on.

Starting point is 01:15:14 And we would suggest that give it a try first. If something needs to happen, either medications or you need to change some things, give nutrition a try first and see if it'll help. There are circumstances where people do still need a little bit of medications to keep them stable. Okay. Not anti-pharma, but we understand a little bit what's happening in the body. And we really thank you for your time today to kind of get into these nuts and bolts of things, Joel. It's been really good. Yeah, we really appreciate you guys' time.

Starting point is 01:15:51 Thank you for having me. And we'll definitely put anything that you'd like in the show notes. We'll link to your website, which is hardy.com. What is it? HardyNutritionals.com. HardyNutritionals.com or gethardy.com. Okay. We'll link to that and um you know if anyone has any questions i'll just let them you know reach out to you guys um it's

Starting point is 01:16:10 it's not a product that you can get through taproot right now so you know um you know reach out if you have a question thank you so much for your time guys working out sleeping in taking vitamins vitamin a vitamin b vitamin c vitamin d vitamin bitch vitamin please

The Taproot Podcast - 🌱💊Exploring the Impact of Micronutrients on Mental Health and Chronic Inflammation

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