The Team House - 160th Special Ops Aviation Pilot | Joel Funk | Ep. 191

Episode Date: February 13, 2023

Joel Funk served as a MH-47 Chinook pilot in 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment.  Today's Sponsor: Battling Blades ⬇️ For 20% off your Battling Blades order, go to https://BATTLINGBLADES.com and enter code "TeamHouse" at check. Learn the way of the blade at https://BATTLINGBLADES.com and get 20% off with the promo code "TeamHouse" at checkout! Thank you for supporting the companies that support the show ! To help support the show and for all bonus content including: -AD FREE AUDIO -AD FREE VIDEO -Access to ALL bonus segments with our guests Subscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Team House merch: ⬇️ https://teespring.com/stores/my-store-10474963 Social Media: ⬇️ The Team House Instagram: https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_link The Team House Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePod Jack’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_link Jack’s Twitter:  https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21 Dave’s Twitter:  https://twitter.com/dave_parke?s=21 Team House Discord: ⬇️ https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6 SubReddit: ⬇️ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheTeamHouse/ Jack Murphy's memoir "Murphy's Law" can be found here:⬇️  https://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Law-Journey-Investigative-Journalist/dp/1501191241 The Team Room Reading Room (Amazon Affiliate links):⬇️  https://jackmurphywrites.com/the-team-room-reading-room/ Intro music by https://www.youtube.com/user/RemixSample Want to sponsor the show? Email: ⬇️ [e-mail] #160thsoar #specialoperations #nightstalkersBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

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why don't you just send us an email and we'll talk about it. Special Operations, Covert Ops, espionage, the team house, with your hosts, Jack Murphy, and David Park. Hey guys, welcome to episode 191 of the team house, hopefully without any technical issues tonight. I'm Jack, here with

Dave. Dee's back there producing the show, and our guest tonight is Joel Funk. Joel served as a Chinook pilot, including with the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, the Nightstalkers, where he flew MH-47 missions in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and elsewhere.

So we're really excited to have him on the show tonight. Joel, thank you for joining us, man. Yeah, no, thanks for having me. It's a really great opportunity. Yeah, absolutely, dude. So start us off telling us about your upbringing and sort of what your path was that took you towards the military. Yeah, so I'm from southern or southwestern Illinois. I live just across the river from St. Louis. I grew up on a farm, you know, kind of a cool story in and of itself. You know, farms have been to families since the 1830s, seven generation. And so for me, growing up, you know, I really had three passions in my life, you know, largely influenced from my dad as well, which was obviously the agriculture, the military, which is tied to history and finance, which is kind of weird. But, you know, if we wind up going down that rabbit hole, a lot of farmers are involved with finance because there's a history there using futures to come.

kind of hedge through crops, but also, you know, within my dad's generation, a way to supplement income and to make money work for you when you don't have it in the ground. And so for me, and I guess really the other thing that kind of drove me to the military is I live five miles south of Sky Air Force Base, which, you know, and that's, you know, later in life, you know, all my Air Force friends thought it was kind of funny that I want them going in the Army to be a pilot even by the Air Force, but I always figured I'd accept a challenge to make life a little more difficult for myself than the good little chair force. But I say that, joking, I got a lot of friends in the Air Force because being there, Air Force, a lot of them

go into, they're still in the Guard, still flying. I got, you know, Casey 135 pilot friends, and, but it's a huge part of the community. Most of my, a lot of my good close friends were military kids growing up. And so, uh, go ahead sorry no no so it was a kind of a military community in a way is that what you're saying that like a lot of them were military brats yep uh exactly so we uh and in fact i'm a school board member now so you know that's a huge part of the conversation we have because that's the that's unique you know community and they have their own challenges but deployments you know even though we may not be you know at war anymore you know they still do their deployments you know

overseas. And so like my graduating class, you know, about a third of us, you know, not me, but a third of the school district is military. We have a distinct separate elementary school for the, for the Sky Air Force Base kids. And then they integrate at the middle school and the high school level. Interesting. So when you were growing up, I mean, did you have relatives that were in the military or were you just exposed to it because of your proximity? So my direct lineage, no, except for my grandpa on my mom's side, did a few years in the Air Force. He actually wound up being an early computer programmer in between Korea and Vietnam. He was out in the islands, you know, off the coast of Japan, listening.

He had a signals intelligence role. So he did a couple years. But then with that training, he wound up working from Lansanto for like 40 years because, you know, he had this technical. background from the Air Force and it was an early adopter and user of tech within within that company, which ironically is interesting because, you know, Monsanto and, you know, GMOs and right. Right. It all kind of connects in a weird way.

And then on my, my dad's side, I had a Navy veteran and uncle who's now since past, but he, he was a chaplain's assistant. And, yeah, I don't think he had any military in his family, but, you know, it just happened to be. He just wanted to go in the Navy. That was during the, during Vietnam War. And, you know, that was an option. He went down, you know, during that time. So what type of farm did you grew up on? Because I know there are like livestock farms, yield crop farms.

Right. It's not just, it's not just every farmer does everything. Right. And in fact, that's a huge distinction now within agriculture. You know, a lot of people have this vision of, you know, that picture of the portrait of the farmer's wife and the farmer's standing next to the old, you know, farm building. And, you know, they got all the red barn and cows and pigs and their crops as well. And that's not really the case anymore. Most of agriculture separated either went livestock or even, you know, row crop, you know, from a, you know, from a, you know,

an efficiency standpoint, that makes sense, you know, if you want to just do one or the other. And a lot of people wanted to get away from livestock because it ties you to the ground. Like if you don't have, you know, the cash flow to have farm hands, like, you're there. It's a 365, you know, year-long job. You have to work. And in fact, we're dealing with an in April because I got 500, you know, 500 birds and a half a dozen goats. And we're going to go on vacation. and we've got to kind of figure out who's going to, you know, we got family,

but, you know, you got to work that end of your plan. It's not just, hey, we're going to go on vacation. I got to make sure I don't have to go to work for a week. People don't put up like goat sitter like things on the, on the old telephone pole. Yeah. No, they don't. So, but from my dad's generation, he was ropecropping. He had some pigs when he was younger, but that market, the bottom of that philip.

out or fell out in the 80s and he got out of before I was born. And so he's been corn, wheat, soy, and then they got rid of wheat probably about 10, 15 years ago. It's been corn and soy only. But for me, I've always tried to do something to do things differently and sometimes, you know, take on the challenge. So I'm trying to integrate livestock back into that rotation of the model as well, become a more diversified and retail farm to table type of.

type of model. So how did you, how did you end up in the military then after after high school? So I, um, I was directed to the history of it and I don't really remember what kind of moved me to the interest of going special operations, but the special operations role and, and was something I always strive for at one point I thought it was going to be a seal. And jokingly, my mom put me in a lifeguard, training to try to deter me from that. She didn't think I was not like it. I want to direct myself towards the Army instead. I thought, and of course, I bounced around back and forth.

I thought I might want to go to Ranger route or I wanted to go Green Beret route, but I think the one thing that really stuck in my mind that I came back to you when I thought I wanted to fly was in high school. I went to school with, I'll go ahead and say her name. I don't think you mind, Teresa Lucas, who was the youngest daughter of Captain Keith Lucas, who was the first KIA of the 160th. So he passed away in Grenada during Urgent Fury.

And, you know, it actually passed, so that operation was October of 83. So he actually, you know, he passed the month I was born, which of course found that out later. And there's just another irony, you know, coincidence. It was just story just going to stuck with you. So, but for how I came about knowing that, we had an assignment in English class, controversial issues. And so because, you know, the, for those that have read their history, they know that, you know, special operations now, even though it's still classified and still

controlled on the information, it was all a different story in the 80s. you know, I mean, you can read a Sean Naylor, but know a lot more than a lot of guys get ridden on, you know, in programs now. And but back then, it was, you know, no internet. I mean, hush, hush. So, you know, she told the story where her dad, you know, died, didn't come home.

And the government told her mom that he was, he passed away in the bombing in Lebanon, which happened the same time. Holy shit. And so for, yeah. And so for years, she was. trying to get, you know, the truth. Because back then, like the 160 was, you know, it was task force. One 60 was on the compound at Fort Campbell. And, you know, it was, it was locked down. Like, it was, you know, not a lot of people knew about it. And so she told that story. But the one

thing that stuck with me was how closely tied the unit was to hurt our family, you know, from that on. You know, it's, it's not well known. But the, the regiment of commander will sign, you know, I hand-a-written note, a letter to all the Gold Star families on the anniversary of their families, their soldier having passed away, you know, up and until now. You know, they, the Nye Stalker Association is very close-knit. You know, it's, you know, when you're in, your family. And so that was a, wow, that's, you know, that's really powerful. Like, I might want to be part of that someday. And so, you know, that was kind of the, you know, that was kind of.

the goal and then just trying to figure out how to get there. So I applied to West Point and with the nomination process, my congressman at the time, I did get a nomination, but I was on the waiting list. And so in typical good, you know, not being in the military yet, but having a second and third order, you know, effect plan, having continuously planned built into the plan, I applied to the Citadel as well. And so I went there for college on the, an RTC scholarship, but the intent of becoming an officer. So what was the Citadel like when you showed up there? Was it the dream come true?

Or was it taps? No, so it, when I was there, they definitely pride of themselves and having at least, regardless if it was true or not, the reputation of being the most difficult military school in the whole country. So, you know, a freshman year sucked. I mean, lots of, you know, You know, your head's shaved.

You're running around all the time. You're always getting yelled at. I mean, it's, it was intense. But I chose that route because I was actually offered a four-year scholarship to go to Embry Riddle on a Rossi scholarship. But I had this idea that if I didn't have the structure, I was going to flunk out in first semester. I probably would because I wasn't, I wasn't an angel in high school. And I was like, I really, I need.

to buckle down. I need to add this structure. I need to be a curve to you, get my grades right and graduate and pursue my dreams. And I worked in granted. I still got in trouble, but, you know, if you get in trouble there, then you don't leave the campus. So it was difficult, but I really kind of came into my own there, I think. Yeah, I mean, the joke about the citadel is you build, you know, it's a place you hate to be, but you love to be from. and being a Yankee in Charleston, South Carolina gave me a whole other perspective as well. And that's something I've always had baked into my life is I want to know what I don't know. And so going to a Southern military college and being within that culture definitely widened my aperture a good bit.

I mean, there's a lot to that, of course. but I remember growing up in Illinois, like we would have Lincoln impersonators come in and talk about all the great things that Abraham Lincoln did, you know, bringing the slaves and went on the war. And you go to things might be a little different now. But Lincoln was like, you know, the devil incarnate

in Charleston, South Carolina. He was not a look favorite way he palm. We were gray. When you went to the citadel, like you had this idea to be a pilot in the I assume in the army because you wanted to get to the 160th eventually did that affect

the like the courses at all did that affect is everybody just the same while they're at the Citadel do they break out the infantry guys did you get to choose what track you wanted to pick when you went into the Citadel how did all that work

so once again back to that bouncing back and forth thing like I actually went to the Citadel with the intent of being going the medical route I wanted to be a trauma doc and you know and come to find out like you actually had drama doctors on the back of you know Chinooks and you know when you're deployed and they it would you know there's special you're smooth you know built around having these highly X you know experienced doctors didn't know that of course at the time but then I changed my my major when I got there to political science because that was, you know, politics and history was something that I was always fascinated with and I liked.

I think I'd go that route instead. So at that point, I actually thought I was going to go the ground route, but then, you know, I also realized that I don't really like running a whole lot and rocking. You know, the aviation routes seemed a little bit more appealing to me in that sense as well. But to actually answer your question about, you know, how you're racked and stacked at the citadel, only about a third of the people that go there going to the service. Oh, interesting. And even, yeah, most of the Citadel grabs go, the highest population of those that are from South Carolina or North Carolina.

And another joke with the Citadel is, you know, you have a class ring. And the ring won't get you a job, but it'll get you an interview because it's how. highly respected within business and within government that you can get through four years of that shit, then you can probably, you know, you can probably do the job. And you can bring a certain amount of discipline and resilience and grip to whatever job you're going to be doing. And it's not just the Army. The Army has the biggest ROTC unit there, but there's a bunch that are in the Air Force and the Navy and the Marines as well. So I got friends that fly 53s in the Navy. I got Air Force officer friends.

I don't think I have any pilots there. I do have a pilot friend, but I went to high school with him, which is another kind of cool thing about coming from a military community. Like I had 130, in high school, 130 people I graduated with. And I got friends that work for, you know, space industries, three-liter agencies, one that's still in the Army, a handful that are still in the Air Force, flying KC, one to 35s. you know, a small farming community in the middle of, you know, southwestern Illinois, but a whole

lot of government military as well. But the citadel is one of five senior military colleges. And what I didn't know about this until when you're going the officer route, you have officer basic between your junior and senior year for the army. I can't speak for the other branches. And there is where you put in your branch choices, whether they're going to be armor or infantry or aviation. And for a senior military college, those would be Norwich, Citadel, A&M, North Georgia, and I think I'm missing one, DMI, sorry, VMI Grez. You're going to hate me for leaving you last because there's a huge, you know,

the BMI Citadel game every year. everyone that's not in one of those five military colleges aren't just fighting for their branch. They're fighting to be active duty. So you actually get wrapped and staffed. You even get on the active duty roles. Then you get your branch assignment. The senior military colleges, you go active duty automatically if you want it. But most of the grads of the Citadel want to go in guard.

They didn't go active. So I got friends that are South Carolina. Montana Guard, Montana Guard. And then your senior years when you get your branch assignment. And so you got branched into aviation, and then what is that pathway then to actually becoming a pilot? So you get branched aviation,

and then you go to the little mother rucker, Silk Rucker, Alabama, to go to fight school. At the time that I was going through, you know, we're talking 2006, so we're in the middle of the surge, a huge expansion in the military, I was backwled.

I didn't start school, actually going through the flight school program for about six months. So I think I started May of 06, and I graduated October of 7. I remember. It was about 18 months for me. But the Apache pilots when I was going through, they took close to two years.

Because the Apache course is longer. So you go to Rucker, and then you go through, initial pilot training. When I was there, it was a Bill 2-06, which is like a traffic copter. Now they fly Lakotas. So you learn how to hover and fly, and you learn airspace, and you know, you just learn the basics. And then you go to BNAV, which is you're actually doing more of a tactical role. You're flying point to point. You're going NEOE's NAPA or a load of the ground.

You're flying in more of a combat role. And then, but still not in your advanced airframe. At that point, then you go to the aircraft selection, and then you pick the aircraft you want. At the time that I was going through, you had all four and you had Kiowa, Apache Blackoff and Chinook. Kaya wasn't gone now. And so then you go to your advanced airframe.

You learn that airframe and that mission set. So, you know, for the gun guys, they would, they would do their advanced stuff and also incorporate their gunnery in it as well. And then depending on how many tasks that you had to learn your course was, you know, longer or shorter. So they patch these with longer because they had the most advanced armament system. I think the Black Oaks were the shortest Chinooks and were kind of in between there because we had probably not too much longer than a Black Oaks. But I'm a little bit more focused on doing external loads and some of those mission sets that Black Oxone too. And then you get orders to wherever you're going.

For me, I was coming out in 2007. And assignments at that point was very much aligned with what it was called a cab. It's still called a cab, a combat aviation brigade. What brigade is going overseas next. so they would kind of line you up for about a year, year and a half of state-site training before you would deploy. At least that was the goal because they were trying to man the brigades before they'd get deployed. And so I went to Port Drum and got there in 07 and then had about a year to train. I started out in the maintenance platoon because everyone in an aviation brigade, the PLs for the most part are aviation.

officers. So going to maintenance was good at first because it gave me a chance of kind of, because the whole time we're going through flight school, you're not really learning any of this army stuff, like how to do an OER or NCOER or, you know, how to manage property. And then you kind of show up and you're like, wow, there's all this Army officer shit.

I didn't learn when I was learning how to fly. So it gave me a chance to figure that stuff out before, you know, I then went to the flight company a couple months before deployment and we went to Iraq. 0809. So let me... Before we move on, let me just give a quick shout out to the sponsor for this show.

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where you can get access to these episodes ad-free. Yeah, and let me tell you, LeFroy is not free. And, I mean, anybody who subscribes, likes, and subscribes to our Patreon, you know, you keep us in the booze, and we appreciate that. So, Joel, your first deployment was to Iraq with an aviation brigade, assigned to 10th Mountain Division, I assume. Yep. Yeah, we're 10th cab, so 10th Combat Aviation Brigade. We fell under 25th ID, those are headquarters element.

Okay. Out of curiosity real quick, did you pick the Chinook? Was it picked for you? How did that process work for you? No, so I picked it. on purpose for a couple of reasons. You know, A, I wanted to use the 160th, and I think the number is about a third.

I'd have to go back and double check, but about a third of all Chinooks in the whole army or in the 160th because they're heavy on 47s, as opposed to, you know, in a whole aviation brigade, you have four battalions. You have, at the time, it was basically Apaches, Kiwis, Hawks, and then you had this weird thing called a G-Sab. Am I coming in?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of echoate. Okay. In the G-sab, you had a company of Hawks that were A2-C-2, aviation control, command and control. So they have special consuls in the back, so brigade commander and division commander

can fly above the mission and do air-assault command of control. So you have a company of Hawks doing that. You have the company should. And then you had the company in Medibank. So the G-Sabs is a weird amalgoration of the ship they shoved into a battalion that didn't fit anywhere else. And so, you know, so in a whole brigade, you have each one of these battalions. You've got three companies of a flight. So you got basically one to five companies of Hawks, you know, and a brigade and one company of Chinooks.

I mean, just the ratio is different. So I went to give the 160th, and I figured, you know, if I flee Chinooks, they had that mission set already. on any of my belt, that would make me more competitive. And also, from a survivability, longevity standpoint, and from just my own personality, the Chinook appealed to me. Most aviation accidents happen because of pilot error. It's not the aircraft. It's both guys are inside looking at something.

They're either hitting the ground or they're hitting something, and then I was supposed to, and they want to crash in the aircraft. Chinook is like a family. You got both pilots at front, and you got two or four more sits of ice in the back. They're just as worried about you laying on the ground the way that, you know, if you come back from, worried as much as you are up front. And so, you know, it was a family, it was a, you know, that communication and that aspect of people to me. So that's why I picked the Chinook. Yeah.

And so what was that first deployment like to Iraq? So it was 08 to 09. And it was the tail end of the surge. So, you know, we were definitely more in, we're still doing coin, but much more stability, trying to kind of dial back our footprint and let the Iraqis kind of take back over. So I did one air assault the whole year I was there. And as a junior officer, I was basically trained to be the air mission commanders. I was in the jump seat.

And, you know, back to the whole, you know, military college. And it was cool when, you know, we did a face-to-face with the ground force infantry. I think I came to remember of this battalion company. But a guy that I was in a political science class in college was one of the PLs. And he just thought it was so cool that, you know, Joel was sitting up front, you know, flying the helicopter even though it wasn't, right? So, you know, he was really happy about telling his Joe's, you know, about that. And that was down. That mission was east, northeast of Baghdad.

But the rest of the year was really just doing air movement, so moving people and stuff from base to base. Because, you know, we figured out that, you know, the biggest threat to U.S. forces in Iraq was the bomb being on the roads. And so we were moving as much as we could through the air. And because of the Chinook, I can't remember what year it happened. Chinook's a big target. And the man pat threat was huge. So, you know, we flew. We lived at night.

We were vampires. Which was great because all my mission hours are all night. So that helped me understand and be once again more competitive to assess and, you know, try it for the 160th because I had this night fishing goggle hours. And it was, you know, that one kind of second nature. I spent a year doing it. And so I apply. Go ahead. No, no, no, I was just going to ask, please finish that and then I'll ask you my question.

So I applied before I deployed with the full well-knowledge that, you know, I didn't come out of flight school with, you know, as the grad or any soft background. And so I figured they say, at least I was hoping for it. I didn't think it would pick me on private for the game to go because I had no combat experience, especially in this, you know, dynamic and environment. where combat was, you know, everyone was getting deployed. And so they came back with me and said, hey, thanks for applying, get deployed, assess when you come back. So I had the assessment scheduled to happen when I got back in Iraq. And so for me, that was like, you know, I probably got to none a lot more preparation physically.

That was the really thing I was worried about was the physical side of it, you know, doing the PT test and doing all that aspect and, you know, hoping I was going to be, you know, a PT stud. And so I had about a month and a half, two months back home. So I worked my ass off in the gym to get ready for assessment. I assessed and I did good enough, right? They took me on board. I was, I was thrilled. I love that.

I did good enough because it's not an easy assessment. What do you think, like, the attrition rate is for the, for the whole assessment process? I don't know. I mean, I mean, really, if they've picked you up for an assessment, what I've been told is they already have a slot that they're looking at you for. So if you're going to Campbell with an assessment, it's yours to lose because they want you, they have a slot ready for you. They don't need to fill that slot.

But they want to see you, you know, give it all you can. and the most important thing is you don't quit. You know, you can fuck up. You can fuck up left and right. But you just can't quit. You can't keep trying. And so, I mean, there were guys that, you know, because I, once I assessed and I went through the training

and I was in the unit, I wanted to go back out in the conventional force to be a company commander in 1001st for a year. And there were guys that I thought were studs. And I was like, you got it. You know, I didn't tell them how to beat the assessment, that I gave them enough to be like, you know, to have kind of, to give them a little bit of understanding of kind of, you know,

these are the things you're looking for. And they came back and they didn't get picked up. And I don't know if it happened, you know, if it was physically or if it was in the cockpit, because there's a cockpit, you know, assessment as well. But they put you before a board. And, you know, one thing I had, one of my mentors when I was in, 10th cab when I was deployed in Iraq

with a former night stalker. And he put it well. And this is probably the best prep I had going to that. It was when you coming out of the board, you should feel about this big because they're going to tear you apart. Like if you don't feel like you were absolutely worthless piece of shit walking

out of that room, they didn't pick you up. Like they're going to rip you down until they see you break. Then they're done. And so for the people who didn't feel like an inch tall walking out? Was it because the board just didn't see it in them and so they didn't tear them down?

Or because they just had oversized egos and thought that they were like acing it when that's not the purpose of the board? A good question. I mean, I was never on an assessment board. He was because he was the regimental ask one. So he saw a lot of boards. So he had a lot of experience in there. Um, yeah, I mean, maybe the incident answered a question right.

And that, um, yeah, I mean, I can speculate. Yeah, and the one guy that I, uh, you know, I was a leader for that went. He thought he knew what questions he answered wrong that it didn't like, but you just don't know. Because you know, and you walk out of the room, they talk and they, they vote. And, you know. So without giving any, without giving anything. about the board away because we know that like boards are an important part of the selection process for everything are the questions personal are the questions technical do they run the gamut

like how all the above okay um yeah so they definitely they hit the personal you know because they have they have your application they're probably due as well and so you know they'll and the application is as long and you also go through a cycle valve before you go as part of the assessment. And so they're looking for transparency. And also, you know, it's kind of trippy up a little bit. You know, I remember a question that they have where it was you'd rank a bunch of stuff, you know, a bunch of different qualities of leadership.

And I think I had integrity not too far from the top. And, you know, and it's a hard list. I mean, it's like 20 words that are, you know, there's some army values in there. And so they're like, so why didn't you put this at the top? And I was like, sure. I listed a couple that I did list at the top five. And I try to rationalize it.

And I remember who was on the board. And I'm friends with them still. And, you know, after the fact years later. And he even told me he's like, just stop by your head. Like, yeah, that was good enough. I started talking myself into a circle. Yeah.

Can you talk about the relationship between, first off, the difference between officers and Warren officers in the, in the helicopter community and then the relationship between them, and maybe even if it's different between the conventional forces and the 160th? Because I don't know. Um,

I mean, definitely some similarities, some differences too. But I've often said that I was raised by warrants. I had some very strong warrant officers in my life. And I also had an officer that's a peer of mine who's still in. He's doing great. He just got promoted to Lieutenant Colonel. And he gave me that lesson. He was like, you want to be raised by the warrants?

Like, they're going to help you. They're going to tell you they're going to help you in the cockpit and also how to lead because they get that experience as well. I think I was, I don't know how odd this is or not, but we had two Rangers regiment guys. They're a Ranger regiment enlisted before they weren't war officers in my company. There were very strong personalities, I'm sure you can imagine, and great leaders and mentors and both in the cockpit and also. from a personal standpoint. And so that, you know, that relationship's, you know, different. I would see probably the closest you would see that anywhere else is within, you know,

within the Green Berets and the ODA teams. You know, the warrants are strong. They're there longer than the officers. The officers' role is much more managerial. You know, you're going to get, you know, you get promoted out of the cockpit where the warrant officers are there. I mean, that's your job. And that's true.

I would say the only difference between conventional army and regular army is it's even more true within the regiment because those warrant officers, you know, they, you know, they're the backbone. They definitely stay within those companies, you know, for decades. You know, I had a battalion commander that one of his challenges, because he came from a little bird community, he was a commander there. And he's like, when you walk in, you realize that, you know, three quarters, I don't know, it was half or three, quarters of your your pilot population could retire tomorrow. But that brings a whole other challenge. It's a whole level of experience that you can tap into and, you know, is of so much value. But it brings to your other challenges of, you know, that pecking order and also from a

retention standpoint because, you know, we don't get, we're not spring chickens anymore as we get older. Right. Right. How do you as an officer who outranks these people, even if they have more experience in the cockpit or on operations? How do you manage that? There's lines. And, you know, so within the cockpit, you have a pilot in command.

So the pilot and command is the guy that's in charge. I mean, he's the one that's going to, you know, for lack of better words, the ones at the wheel. He's going to get the ticket or, you know, a, a, you know, a. something goes wrong. And so there's a respect there. And there's different roles within the mission as well as an officer. And in fact, this is a little bit different within the commissional versus the special operator than the 160th. Within conventional, a lot of times the AMCs were warrant officers. I don't think there was ever a mission that an O officer was on within the regiment where the O was not the ANC.

And so a lot of times, especially if you're a junior officer, you're sitting in a jump seat, at least with a mission of community, seeing in the jump seat, doing the radio calls, doing aircraft, de-confliction, you know, doing that role within the command and control element while the warrants are leading. And then the flight lead is always going to be a warrant officer. Because, you know, they're either the most experienced warrant officer, the flight or they are a experienced warrant officer in training to be a flight lead and when you

say AMC is that assistant like assistant mission commander uh air mission air mission commander so air mission commander so it's always going to be the officer in the 160th yeah i couldn't tell you if there was an if there was an officer if there was a low in the flight um the AMC was going to be an O. If there was no O, then it'd be, you know, probably the most senior warrant. But then, but then a conventional is a different story in large part because in a flight company, you're going to have three, three lieutenants and one captain. And those lieutenants are junior and they're young. And, you know, they're definitely have less experience to command because your job as an air mission commander is to command the flight. You're overall in

charge of where that flight's going and to complete the mission and to run through that contingency plan too. So, you know, if you have an issue with an aircraft malfunction or a weather event, you're the one that's kind of in charge of figuring out the big picture of, you know, that do we need, how are we going to get maintenance here? Do we need security, you know, if you're in a deployed situation or if you're in the state, So, like, all right, where's everyone sleeping? You know, if we're doing insensitive items, inventories, and checks,

and where are we going to put the weapons? And, you know, you're much more that managerial admin role. So, Joel, once you got picked up for 160th, what was the training process? I know there's, like, additional training you have to go through to become, you know, a 160th MH-47 pilot. Right on. And not only that, you also have to figure out where you're at within the pipeline of training and school within the conventional army.

So here I am, I got promoted to, did I get promoted to captain? When did I get promoted to captain? I also, when I was in Iraq. Yeah, I made it to major before I got out. So captain, I got picked up in Iraq. And then, and so picked up for captain, and then you get the captain for course,

and I get picked up for the 160th. So they're like, hey, you've got to be green for them, but we're going to knock out Captain, course first. So I'm at Fort Drum. I basically swing through Fort Rocker for six months to the captain's tour course en route to on orders to go to Fort Campbell. So Fort Campbell, the Greenputton six months. You got you got ground school. You have what's called B-E-NAV. And then I called, I said B-Nab earlier when I was talking about flight school, but that's basic, basic warfare skills, different thing. But, you know, acronyms all kind of merged together and you had over the

years. Yeah. So ground school is all just that. You're going through medical, you're doing, you're flipping out the map and you're doing your land navs, you're doing some ruck marching, you're shooting. Really one thing, the two things that were probably the most fun in my whole career was doing, doing a lot of shoot house stuff and going on the range, both in Sears School, because you go through Sierra Sea at Fort Rucker doing through flight school, and you do

a couple of days of shooting during basic ground school. I think they call it combat skills in Green Patoon. And so you do all the ground stuff, all the, you know, Hula Army stuff. Then you go to BNAB, which is you and a little bird, you know, watch and a compass basically going from point to point trying to hit your targets plus a minus 30 seconds off on,

you know, an old school map that you and your rest of your plan, your flight, your planning cell is put together. So you're going through the old school methodology of time, distance heading to get to the target. And then you go to your advanced aircraft where you, if you're not already a Chinook guy or trained in that Chinook, so for me, like, I flew the old D models when I was in Iraq. And so we're talking steam gauges. Like there was no digital stuff, no moving maps. We had a moving map that they actually had to mod the aircraft for when we were in Iraq. It was a kneeboard that it was like a little, you know, clunky iPad or like iPad that was on your knee that actually had a moving map on it.

It was only movie map we had. So we, you know, we went through a lot of paper and ink in Iraq because it was, you know, map printing every night for every mission. So older, older Chinook and then more digitally connected, MH47 golf. So I was trained on the golf, so we went through flights or Green Potato. doing in the 160th. And at the same time, the rest of the Army was doing the conversions from the D model and the F model. And so at that point, you know, you fast forward a couple years when I went back to the regular Army, I had the golf model transition. So I understand more the advanced avionics architecture that the system had. But there were still differences

on, you know, how some of the things were within the checklist and just the aircraft system, methodology was. And then, you know, the other differences between the Gulf versus the regular army as the Fox is the fuel probe and the hoist and the fatter tanks. And so there are other systems attached to the Chinook within the 160 of it, make it an image, a modified helicopter, or sorry, a multipurpose helicopter that's heavily modified. And so how do you, what? what's the rest of the 160th pipeline that takes you until you're, you know, a, I guess, certified pilot in the unit?

Yeah, so Green Patoon's about six months. And then once you graduate from Green Patoon, then you were, you're not, I'm trying to how they word it. I think you were, I think you come out of this at B&Q. You still have to go through what's called progression when you get to the unit. So even though you basically have the certification, you go on through Green Patoon, you have the qualification of that aircraft. once you get to the company.

And at that point, it should just be basically a, you know, a check mark on your records. Because if you got through the pipeline, you have the ability in this, in the experience to pass the check ride when you get to the company, but you still have to go basically prove that you know what you've been, what you said you knew. And then you were then ready to deploy.

The 160th. Oh, please, go ahead. No, no, I was just going to say, the 160th, conducts, I think sometimes miracles, right? The pilots do stuff that people are just amazed that they can do. Were there times during the pipeline, you know, during your green team, when they were telling you what they wanted you to do and you're like, oh, shit? Or do they work it up in a way that makes it all attainable?

Yeah, it is because there is a simulator at, you know, that they build into the training as well. So before you're actually behind an MC 130, trying to put the fuel probe into the back of the basket and trying to get, you know, basically do formation flight, you know, you know, behind a giant fixed-mean aircraft. Like you've done it, you know, in a simulator. And so they, they go, they definitely prepare your friend. I mean, for good reason, right? I mean, it's a dangerous thing. And you want to basically kind of build up your, not just your experience, but your resilience and kind of your familiarization for you really doing in real life because not only is the dangerous, you know, you get money involved as well in training time and hours.

So, yeah, I mean, it's, they build you up to it, you know, the overwater stuff. I say the helicopter air to air where he fuel is probably the most dicey. But, you know, that in dust, means. I mean, I only know, I got one friend that, you know, that, had an accident behind an MC 130. He lost blade and he had a really nasty

crash landing in training. We actually flew together. We were platoon leaders together down in Savannah. He doesn't have fond memories of that flight. But most of the accidents

and the, you know, the ass-pooker in moments usually have to do dust landings and really allow the fatalities. Yeah. And especially the smoke community because that's, you know, you're doing that a lot. I mean, because that's your mission, especially in Afghanistan, the ground is pottery. And every landing is going to be a dust landing.

And that was probably the thing we practiced the most and did the most because we, you know, I had a good friend. It also happens to gotten, he's gotten into agriculture and farming since he's got out. You know, it's, it's been part of his transitions, his means to, you know, live and enjoy life that he joked. He gave me my flight, my check ride at the end of Green Patoon. And he said he's, he lost more landing gear in a semi-trailer in Afghanistan. And I believe it, there was a lot of snap landing gears left in Afghanistan. in. And that, and that, but that also fueled the pipeline and the technology that came out to make

this dust and it's easier. And they're still working on tech now, you know, using virtual reality and trying to find ways that you can see the ground without really seeing the ground with your eyeballs. Joel, for, for people who might not 100% understand these concepts, can you tell us what a refueling with a C-130 feels like. And can you tell us more about why a dust landing is so challenging for a pilot? So I'll touch on the dust landing first. So if you've ever driven through the fog at night where you can't see shit,

and then imagine you're not on the ground. And then you, you know, instead of a steering wheel, you have a basically a joystick in your hand. And you push it a little bit too far to left or the right. and you try to slow down, but are you slowing down or are you going backwards? And are you, are you drifting to the left or are you starting to flip upside down? I mean, that's what you're dealing with in the dust landing. Like, you can't, you can't see. So you go in with enough inertia that you're, you know,

the thing you're constantly saying over your, into your head is forward and down, forward and down. And so, you know, it's a lot, especially with the aircraft's landing gear within the snook, it's not very tolerant left you right, but you can smack it into the ground. You got a little bit of resilience and resistance there, and you can come back out of it.

You start doing side-to-side action. You're in trouble. And so I guess that's the best way I've explained it is you're in fog, but you don't necessarily know what sides up because your tire is on the ground anymore. Yeah, I mean, I remember climbing, gone to the back ramp of MH47 in one of those kinds of dust landings. And it's like something to describe as like, you know, like you're in one of those movies where there's like the depiction

of hell and there's just like red dust like swirling all around you and you can't see a damn thing. And even on the ground, you know, as an infantry guy, where is this helicopter at? And when you see the crew chief, you're like, oh, okay, thank God. Yeah, it sucks. And I can only imagine for the for the pilots, it's like, must be like landing underwater. I mean, you don't, you don't know where the hell, what's up, what's down, except for your instruments, of course. Yeah. And you have to coordinate that with the ground force as well, because you don't want to,

the last thing you want to do is have the LZ set up. So you're overflying your people. Right. A, because you're not, you're trying to dust them out, but you also don't want to land on it. Right. And so you try to offset enough, but also not go so far that the guys have to go a quarter mile to get to the vacuum ramp. So, you know, you got to try to stick it where you want to stick it.

And, you know, and hopefully no one's underneath here. Yeah. I know, by the way, when the blades are turning, I can't remember what it's called. But you get a light effect as well. It's the electric static. Yeah. Yeah. The electrostatic.

Yeah. And it's like for people who haven't been to Afghanistan, like there's this dust. It's like moon dust. It's like talcum powder. And so when you guys are coming down in your. helicopters and once that starts kicking up you're just in this fog like you say that you can't see anything and then the media are refueling so in that um and so the you know you have flink of procedures because you're trying to line up with the aircraft you know at the right

altitude and the right the right heading and so but even there like once you line up you know there's a there's a function of a system where you basically you get through a certain point on the aircraft in formation when the droge comes out and then you, you know, you come in behind it and you line up and you're kind of like, it's like jousting because you get the fuel probe. And the cool thing with the snook is the probe is actually, it doesn't extend like the hawks does. So, um, so, um, so you line up on the probe and then you, you know, you're actually, the droge is actually coming up underneath the rotor blades. So you have, I mean, you got to hit it right.

Like you tilt aircraft forward, you come in, you hit the probe, and then you can't just stay there. Like you have to come up into the refute position. So you hit it, you connect, and then you're physically dragging it up into space with enough slack that it doesn't fall. The probe doesn't fall off because then you've got to completely reset. But then you can't come too forward because then you don't. going to crash into the dam, you're going to hit the wing of the airplane.

So there's this nice little, I guess, you know, that would be better because you can't see that. Three feet, three feet margin. So, so this plane, this airplane is traveling, you know, how, whatever they're, I don't know how they're not, whatever they're trying, I don't know how fast refueling happens. But this airplane is going, this helicopter catches up, hits this probe, rotates up. Yeah, and then you're hanging, you're hanging out there until you get enough gas. And the other consideration, too, is, you know, when you're dealing with aircraft, not only are you talking about speed and, you know, you're also dealing with the amount of power you have.

So as you're taking on gas, it's taken away. And so you have only so much power that you can pull. And also the aircraft has its own, you know, the MC130 has its own limitations with airspeed. So it can't slow down too much because then it'll fall out of the, out of the, sky. The reason we can get behind an MC 130 is their stall speed is lower as opposed to the, you know, the big boys. 14 is up at altitude. And so they can't slow down. And you can only go so fast because as you're getting, as you're bringing on more fuel and more weight, then at a certain point,

you can't pull any more power. So depending on the mission of the altitude and in the temperature, you know, a lot of times, I mean, not a lot of times, but in Afghanistan, you might just fall off the probe because you can't keep up anymore. Right. And then, you got to, you got, what you got, get in the back of the line. And then because the Army feels this isn't challenging enough, you also have to do it at night under nods, you know, you can add that extra. Yeah. Extra, extra little, you get that little extra high off of that experience.

Doing it all in a green world. Yeah. So let's talk about life in 160th, man. What was, what was like the first deployment that you, you hopped on with the unit? So my first one, one thing that was, so all my flying rotations, and because I came, I was in and I came out and I went back in, all my flying rotations were in one year. And so my first rotation was, I was a battle captain. So I was in a staff position. You know, my job is mission tracking, but also coordination. So I was, I was liaisoning with the ground force. and what missions they wanted to do.

So, you know, it was in, I was in Kandahar, and we were in support. At that point, you know, my element was in charge of, in large part, what many would call the vanilla soft. So the seals outside of six, the Green Berets and Marsak. And so we had the Siege of Soda Commission, the Combined Joint Special Operations Task Force. and so each component had a different region. And so my job is basically say, hey, all right, so to West. What missions do you want to do this week? So do north, so to south.

And then trying to de-conflict that so that we can support as many as we could in alignment with our own limitations of crew rest and really how many crews we had. Because there was more missions that were potential than we could actually fulfill with the capabilities that we had. Because at that point, it was 2012, and we were very much in the village stability operation role. So we were still doing most, the rest of the regiment was supporting the TST counterterrorism, you know, go finding, you know, the local Taliban or bond builder mission. Our job was supporting that, you know, we would drop off a team one night. They would walk into town. they'd presence patrol shake hands to figure out where the

getting an idea you know put the boots on the ground you know showing that they were there and of course throughout this whole time the vast majority of people were flying for athletes so we would have CETs in the back but most of it was Afghan commanders so we would drop them up one night they'd walk through during the day and we'd pick them on the other night

the one the biggest challenge we had was a lot of times we were doing two missions a night. And so we would, you know, pick up a team out in the helmet, drop them off, and then fly back to either Kandahar or, I'm trying to remember where that. Actually, I think both, I think West was in the helmet out in Bastion. And then I think South and Southwest are both at Kandahar. And then we had the team up in a TK, Terran Kot.

I don't know if either when you guys is familiar with that. But it was kind of a city. the middle of the mountains in like a bowl. That was fun to try to get into. So we were flying, you know, two missions a night. Well, I wasn't. I was one coordinating it and getting yelled at because trying to deconplete this.

And, of course, weather would come in or aircraft or break. And then you know, your, you're, your margin for trying to make the mission happen is more difficult when you're trying to do two missions to one night when shit starts going sideways. So that was my first one. And then a couple months later, I went back for my flying rotation. I did two months flying similar missions as well. Was this when you flew some sort of escort for the president?

Yeah. So my, yeah, so that was late spring, early summer, 12. That was when Obama came. I think it was the only time he went to Afghanistan. He met with Karzai in Kandahar. And so they took elements throughout the country. And that was really cool. I mean, granted, as a junior, you know, 168 officer,

I was basically kind of just, you know, like a wallflower. Like all the mission planning was happening with the senior guys, all the warrant officers, and one or two senior officers. We're talking, you know, company commanders. The company commanders within the regiment seem like, same as the SF community. They're majors. So, platoon leaders and team leaders, team leaders in SF and platoon leaders and the 160th are captains. And so, but it gave me a chance to see the other guys within the regiment and make some friends and chair stories and talk that stuff while the mission planning was going on.

But then also, you know, being there and seeing how many assets and how much. and he went into really a couple hours mission, right? You know, how many contingencies? I didn't fly the commander or the commander in chief. I didn't fly Obama, but I saw him on the tarmac. And then, but I got to fly behind the, we had Army one that night. It was really cool. And he came over the, you came over the SATCOM too, and thanked us all.

It was, that was a moment to, that was fun. It was one of those historical moments to be involved with. Yeah. And being, that was great. Yeah. Not many people can claim to have been in the same room with an American president. Yeah. Now, a lot of 160 guys were after the bin Laden happened.

I heard, because that's the coolest award. Yeah, probably the. the most prestigious award that I was able to, you know, I got and I'm able to, you know, to have in my uniform that I didn't do anything to deserve because I had just finished Green Patoon when that mission happened. Like I was, I was sitting in Savannah waiting to sign into the internet, and then that raid happened. And, you know, every component that was involved in the mission got a presidential unit citation. And, you know, and then finding out later and being able to fly with the guys that were on. You know, that's, and that's, and that's, and that's, you know, and that's, you know, and that's. I mean, that's probably the coolest thing about being in that unit. Looking back and being part of that, too, is, you know, Durant wrote the book and the company of heroes. That's the God Alpha fucking truth. Yeah.

The history, I mean, being taught by guys that wrote the book and had been there and done that, we're on Roberts Ridge, you know, flew the Russian helicopter out of Africa in the 80s. You never read about that. That's a cool one. Yeah. I mean, it's a lot of history, a lot of legacy and heritage and just pure awesomeness in that unit. A lot of secret squirrels, too. Fun stuff.

And a lot of guys that have done a lot of great things, you know, since then, too. Yeah, I, uh, the quick aside, you know, Durant ran for Senate this last year and never met the guy. But, you know, I connected back on LinkedIn a while back, and I sent him a little bit. message because I got some campaign history in my background too and I thank him for long and I was I was sad to see him lose because he that's the type of guy we need you know you know leading this country both not just you know those those individuals put themselves out and served

their country within the military but then I also step back and said you know I'm not done you know there's there's things I can do to help you know lead and to have the character can do it. You know, that's the type of guy I'm convinced, regardless of what I always on. You know, he would have done good. And that was my message to him. You know, it came out that he had said that,

you know, he was lo-jaded. He wasn't probably going to do it. And I was like, no, like, you keep doing it. You lost your first one. So did I. Keep at it. And then something that was not secret at all, of course. You flew out, you did a Super Bowl flyover? Right. So after, you know, like I mentioned earlier, you're trying to, the regiment is also trying to get your guys promoted to. And so, you know, the promotion board looks at your achievements regardless. You know, they see your records and they see evaluations, but, you know, they might not necessarily see company commander on your, on your OER or your O or B. And for the uninitiated, you know, won't understand a captain.

and the 160th is pretty much the equivalent, or the platoon leader on the 160th is in large part of the equivalent with the company commander in the regular army. And so they did it, they heavily push as many non-company commander complete captains in the 160th out to regular army to get the company commands, you know, to bring them back in so that they could get promoted to major

because that was, we were doing the downsizing in the late 2000s, or, you know, we're talking 2000s, 12 of 2014 so army is getting smaller we're having retention boards and whatnot so anyway so went to the regular army went to the 101st and then this flyover thing comes down the pipeline I've been company commander for like too long so like and I remember my battalion commander calling me he's like hey so I got this coming down the down the pipe like we were we were stressed like we were short man we had all these uh all these training missions we were lined up for that we had to complete he's like we got this tasker you're gonna tell me that you can do this

right? I'm like, yeah, I'll figure that out. So they sent all, they sent the airframes to Newark and, you know, it was it was fun. I mean, flying over the Super Bowl, you know, being at, and of course it was that night as well, which was also advantageous because

all of us, you know, the unit had just come from being in Afghanistan. I'd spent all these hours flying in Afghanistan and I came on and, you know, they had the hawks the Apaches and the Chinooks in the back. Yeah, that was fun. And it was, go ahead.

No, please. Go ahead. Finish that and then I'll ask you. I was going to say it was in and of itself, you know, worthwhile because it gives you a chance to, you know, I worked with a different battalion commander that wanted to become the brigade commander, you know, seeing how he handled things. And it gave you a chance to get away from the mothership and kind of, all right, well, I'm in charge you. I got to figure some of this stuff out. Like, you know, if we have a downed aircraft, or we have maintenance or, you know, just dealing with that stuff that you won't necessarily

deal with when you're at home station. Like, you're on big board rules and you got to, you know, adapt, make it happen or get fired. How many, when you're doing that, like, how many conflicting interest are there? Like, there's, do you guys, there's whatever, you know, there's the FBI, their local police, like, who are you working for at that point in time? For the Super Bowl flyover? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we had, we had battalion, we had brigade level representation that was dealing with local authorities. I guess the biggest de-confliction was airspace and having, you know, that having a liaison

on with the FAA because we were flying low. And we had to have special permission. And really, I think the most, the restrictive part was also, I mean, there was that, you know, flying basically, you know, at the level of, you know, the Super Bowl coming down low. But then also flying up and down to Hudson

because you're talking about some very restrictive air space rules. So, you know, I didn't have any of those conversations, but those those conversations happened they were pre-briefed you know we were told what our left and right limits were and so that way the expectations are known we have approval and then you know we just follow through so yeah i don't know if we had to de-conflict with with FBI or you know what all federal agencies we had to i know the fAA got involved that way they you know they they knew not the to throw any red flags up and scramble anything. Should you guys.

Intercept. Yeah. Yeah. So are you guys the black helicopters that people complain about flying in U.S. cities that NATO is coming in to invade us? So it's funny you would mention that. So I look at Drudge Report. That's kind of my news aggregator I go to. Just because it's got a decent mix of all sorts of stuff.

And since 2016, I haven't seen really, well, I mean, there's been a couple pop-up. But I remember, like, I'm trying to remember the name of the exercise down in Texas that had everyone all shipped out. Yes, that. Thank you. Yeah. And I don't think the 160 even had anything involved with that. But there, I mean, that is, so there is a very dedicated effort to get, you know, the flight lead program within the 160th is very important because you're talking about

the progression, the training, and the certification of a person that is expected to be able to take any mission anywhere in the world and get our most elite forces there plus or minus 30 seconds. And so that's a very high bar to jump over. And so, you know, there is a, you know, there's authorities and there's a training program developed to incorporate that into. And, of course, that's mutually beneficial both for the ground force and for the air assets. And so, in short, yes, if you ever see black helicopters landing in downtown L.A., yeah, it's probably, you know, probably some friends of mine. It's not the U.S. Yeah, it's not like they can reproduce those situations on a military base and the ruts,

the realistic urban training. Right. Yeah. Right. And so they have to, you know, take an abandoned building. They have to take a space someplace where it's a realistic training environment, correct? Right. Right.

And really the only time that goes bad. And when I say go bad, I'm talking about it in the media, is when the local community isn't brought in. And that's not within the DOD side. That's always the local officials that failed for whatever reason to get the word out. And that people get freaked out. And once you basically say, hey, this is what's going on and this is why, they're like, oh, okay, understand it.

But if they don't, then you start getting those news reports that, you know, and granted, it was really bad between, let's say 2002 to 2000 not years wrong 08 to 16 where the news have come out

with like oh we're conditioning the population for you know for for martial law and like no that's not what's happening like this happens all the time like we do on a quarterly basis it just doesn't get the news all the time right right yeah I've heard some funny stories over the years about

you know, like the local populace tearing into the local mayor. And the next thing you know, some squadron commander has to appear in his class A's doubted it. That it's small. Sometimes it's in like Smallsville, USA, not just big cities. Like, yeah, well, this is kind of what happened, you know. Yeah. Actually, on that note, you also mentioned that you flew time sensitive targets for the Ranger Regiment a few times. I's wondering if you could tell us what that experience was like.

Yeah, so I mean completely different mission sets. So, you know, much more the, you know, we would go in, you know, me and the flight lead in the morning and really that happened more so when I went back there for my second flying rotation at the end of 2012. And we still did the, you know, the village stability operation stuff, but they, you know, we started collapsing our footprint more and more focus started going towards, you know, there's only so many assets, right? So that got picked up by us as well from the guys that I was with.

And so we would go in, we'd get our, you know, Intel would have their, you know, their list of potential targets and their their fidelity on different locations. And so we would get grids. We'd get, you know, basically a heads up at, hey, we might be going to these locations. And then, you know, there was a cutoff point where we basically said, hey, at this point, like, we got a shit and get off the top. Like we either got to, we have to have a grid and we have to, you know, develop this plan to make it by this time or we don't and this isn't happening. And then, you know, we had as much information pre-canned as possible so that, you know, all we needed was the grid and then we could basically, you know, we'd made it an efficient process and so that we can get out the door, make the mission happen and, you know, then land and drop off the guys. they do their admission. We would go loiter somewhere and then come back and pick them up and carry on the next day.

I remember you guys making us all each individually stand on the scale in full combat year, and weigh us. I mean, that's like, but I mean, that goes to show how exact your planning process is. Like you want to know the exact weight of every single soldier with water in their canteens before you take off. Yes, especially in Afghanistan, depending on the, firemen as well. I mean, there's, there's, there are times of the year and, in altitudes, you have a little bit more margin for air. And, because I remember in Iraq, like, a lot of

times we could, we could take as much as we could throw in the bat. I mean, I never, you know, there's seats out waivers, you know, it's a much more. So, like, a seats out waiver, like, you, you know, you, uh, if you don't have it, then everyone's got to be in a seat and buckled up. And so on. I didn't even know they had seats in a 47. I didn't even know that was a thing. Yeah, so. What the fuck? I've been cheated. You've never flown luxury.

I was cheated. I mean, sometimes there are, like, it's just another lie. Sometimes there are hostesses bringing like drinks and snacks down the way pre-mission. Yeah, I, I remember in Iraq when I was in 10th cab, like how much of a pain it was to get a seats outweigh for, for a mission. And within the regiment, it was just kind of like a, that was like a pre-existing. established thing that was just kind of there. It was done.

Like it was approved at all the times. So, but yeah, I mean, weight's important because that, that's a difference between getting off the ground or not. And or getting off the ground and damaging, according to the aircraft, then you have a multi-million dollar assets sitting at the, at the flight line for a couple of days after you broke it. That could be new missions. Can you tell us a little bit of the chat?

challenges between like Iraq and Afghanistan because like Afghanistan, sometimes like a load would be 10 dudes where like you said in Iraq, as many people as you, as many guys you could fit on the on the aircraft. Yeah, I, you know, I remember if it was how crazy even number was in Iraq. I mean, like 50 dudes. It's not crazy, right? no I want to say I want to say 55 to 60 I mean we're talking packed in there like sardines but yeah Iraq you know during the summer you know we would have issues with weight but we would usually we would usually cube out in Iraq once again we're talking

one of the difference is also between a C.H versus an MH the MH has a much larger fuel capacity I think it's double, right? 67, 600 pounds in a conventional on 13,200, 200 in an MH. So that was another thing we could we could work with within the MH community, is you can regulate how much fuel you had in. Now granted, you also had to make sure they had enough on board to get you from point A to point B, but you didn't necessarily, and we hardly ever went out the, went out the door with the ground force with a full tank of gas, because you did, and that's, you know, for every 250 pounds, if you have a fuel tank, so you don't need,

that's one less guy in the back and you don't have a target. So, yeah, I mean, weight planning was important in Iraq, but not nearly to the extent that it was, you know, in Afghanistan, because you're dealing with much surface elevation and the Kandahar was, what, four or five thousand, you know, right from the start. And I'm probably off. It's been a little while since I remember. I mean, Iraq, like, you know, you're not a sea level, but you're not nearly talking, you know, a thousand's feet right from the start

when you're taking off from the ground. And after all the these fun times flying around, you did a couple tours as the Siegeosotif J3, 2015 and 2016? Yeah. So when I finished my company command and I went back to the 160th, I filled a deputy operations officer role at the 06 level command that was in charge of all air in Afghanistan. And so they had, you know, it was a joint command, so he had mostly Air Force, but a handful of nightstoppers working in there, both to be subject matter experts within the air component. I mean, really, that was it.

Like we, they wanted someone there that understand, understood our mission set and weren't just, you know, AC130 or MC130 pilots. It was truly a joint demand that we could all, you know, share information and work with, which is great for me, not just the unit, because then I got to actually work with AC130 pilots and MC130 pilots and get to understand their missions set and their limitations and how they looked at, you know, what I did as a rotary rig pilot, but through their eyes as well. and then also understand more of the ISR component and then, you know, what the Special Operations Weatherman did. I mean, it was truly, you know, just, I mean, it was every aspect of soft air in a room. And I just, I learned so much. It was great. And it gave me a chance to step back and see the overall picture of what was happening, and not just, you know, much more of a tunnel vision, tactical sense.

It was great from a professional development standpoint. So special operations weathermen are guys who do like a four-man stack on an incoming cold front? Something like that. I mean, I remember first hearing about seeing those AFN conversations sitting in Iraq. I mean, like, oh, really? You guys need a piece for that? AFN. Armed forces network for those of you who didn't have the privilege of watching TV.

God. In Iraq? Yeah. It's like being one of those dystopian futuristic movies where like they're playing propaganda everywhere you go. Yeah. But yeah, so that was, we for real had a special ops weather guy in the C.JSOAC talk. Who had time, you know, with an ODA out in the field doing weather reports, you know, for the, you know, for hire. But like sarcasm aside.

like what does a special ops weather a guy do? Like we've never had one on the show before. We've never really spoken about it. And I know they're the butt of many jokes, but like, and if anybody knows one, we'll have one on the show. Yeah, no, for real. I'd be happy to. Talk about Chinese weather. For real, though, like, what do those guys do?

So, I can't speak on how important they are now in the much more digitally interconnected, you know, all weather, you know, you know, data capable world we live in trying to string words together to make them sound

sound right but definitely in you know in previous years where you if you rolled into a country like I mean that was the guy that was on the ground that could actually make a forecast you know make a determination based off of you know wind speed temperature uh pressure altitude and and uh and due point if if it's going to rain or if it's going to be foggy or you know what can we actually get helicopters here or not? I mean, so for, you know, for an air component, it's important. You know, much less, I guess, important for somebody that's kicking in a door and, you know, isn't so worried about the weather, but the pilot coming in or out of there is.

So, yeah, I mean, that's what they had systems and they had technology that could look at the current weather conditions and forecast what it was going to look like in the next. 12 24 hours and kind of speculating here. But yeah. The next assignment was, if you could tell us about how you got assigned to fifth group and what that job was. So I, at the end of my last time with the 160th, I kind of saw, I started getting the inclinations that I wanted to get out. and it was time to kind of hang up like I'd

both of my personal standpoint but professional like it was you know get out while the going's good and you know because I was you get promoted up as that's another thing that's great about being a warrant officer

you know if I wanted to you could fly forever you can fly forever as an officer you're going to get promoted out of the cockpit in one way or another sooner or later and I had enough time on staff that you know, if I don't like what I'm doing, I hate life and I don't do it do it on my job.

So, yeah, I was like, maybe it's time. And then from a personal standpoint, looking at where I was in my life and my family, and, you know, when you have a family business and the older generation is kind of, you know, he's there, but you don't know how many more years it's going to be around. And then we're talking about my grandpa. You know, it's like, no one's getting younger. Like, I should probably get home and figure out this other thing before, you know, know, the force to bite. And so anyway, so I got, I got picked up for Command General Staff

College and, you know, the chance to get a master's in a year, you know, basically full-time active duty with the obligation that I'd served two more years. So I went out to Fort Leavenworth. I did, you know, did that. I was seeking an assignment as close to home as I could, you know, for my kids and while I was there also, you know, I met my, met my wife. And that's a whole other, it's a pretty cool love story. She's still in the service. She's a Missouri National Guard's schooling. And so I was seeking a place.

I actually tried to get assigned for the Sky Air Force base because it might not be well known, but there's two four-star commands here. You have the Air Force Air, Air, Air Mobility Command. So anytime you hop on the C-17, that's A&C. That's where General Meehan is. He's blowing us all up with those memos. I guess. You don't know about that?

I wasn't tracking the name. Yeah, he's sending out memos saying how we're going to be at war with China in a year or two. I got to go Google that one. You Google that. Yeah, it's a it's a lively memo. But anyway, I'm sorry. Continue. Well, he's got kids in the school district.

there's another connection there um so they got amc but then they also have transcom so transcombe is the overall four-star strategic command over all you know the strategic transportation command and they have army component there called sddc and so i actually got a by name request to go on the uh stdc staff uh from the two star general there but uh you know aviation branch was like um i'm sorry buddy like you're you're an aviation officer, we just sent you to command zero staff college, like you're not going to go work for the, you know, for a transportation command for a couple years.

Right. Next, what's next? So I was like, well, I like Fort Campbell, I've been there. Like, being with fifth group would be cool. Oh, by the way, I knew where they were and I really wanted to, I really kind of wanted to get to Syria. I figured if there was a place, you know, to finish my career off to not only be impactful, but also for my own professional development and understanding

I mean, I was a political science major. I mastered in security studies, like international relations, and, you know, what we're doing in the world is important to me. And that was definitely a place where a lot was going on. A lot of things kind of hinged on what was happening here. I mean, we had ISIS, we're allying with the Kurds. You know, we spoke earlier. I think if you want to have an understanding of a true history

and what's gone right and wrong in the Middle East, you just study the Kurds. I mean, they've been worked both sides by different superpowers, you know, for generations. You know, what's happening in the region is definitely important from a special operations background. Our standpoint is trying to understand, you know, how it works. I mean, Syria, that's where you would want to study. Because for the most part, from a doctrine of standpoint, you know, special operations is something that is in large per kind of a kind of supporting effort to the conventional force.

Like, it's this thing happening, but the main fight is the conventional. It was a completely different operation in Syria. Like, Syria was a soft mission being supported by conventional. I mean, so the soft was the main effort. That's not normal. And so from an academic standpoint, but also operate, like it was like, I wanted to go there.

And I had the opportunity. So I wanted to deploy in there for four months in 20, 17. Yeah. So, yeah, feel free to Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I have, I'm fascinated by Syria and

the conflict there, and I could pick your brain for hours about that, but I'll try to hit the kind of the wave tops on it. What was your role when you hit the ground there? What was the job? So there, so I went to the fifth group, and I put in for that, and I was accepted. I went there as the group aviation officer. So it's an 04 billet at the group level.

And then you have 03s at the battalion level. And the other thing that was cool, too, there was, you know, I'm a former 160th officer. I got friends in the regiment. I think one thing that's great about fifth group and really made my real job really easy is they have an established relationship with both the 101st Aviation Brigade and the 160th. So getting air support for fifth group was not hard.

you know, it was, you know, I had an NCO that had been an amazing job, but pretty much did everything that the group aviation officer or other groups would have to do, which unfortunately made me more of an event manager and a, you know, 15 to 6 investigation officer, but that's a whole other story. So, so I got to Syria because they needed a fire support officer to work a 12-hour shift because one of the battalions that had, you know, they had a, actually, they didn't have an O or an NCO. So you had a warrant officer sit in the day shifts and they had me sit in the night shifts. And at first I was just doing reports because most of the, most of the fires missions and the approval was down at the, at the SOTO's level, not at the, actually, so, no, I was at the SOTO's level.

And so, you know, I was basically just looking at what they did, you know, reporting it to hire, you know, in large part just for record keeping, you know, that way, you know, we took track of where things were landing and what, you know, that way, if something were to come back and there was collateral damage and there was an investigation, like we had a record of what aircraft, what time, what munition, you know, from a, from that. standpoint. And then we got back filled with actual fires guys because as a Chinook guy, I didn't have a lot of experience dropping bombs or shooting things. So my guys in a backwood, but not so much for me up front. But and so they, because Syria was such a hot topic issue, we had so many stars rolling through as VIPs. It became, it basically gave me the job of being the VIP management officer. So every time, you know, Votel or one of the staff members or Funk, which is cool, because my entire life, I had heard about this general funk that was out there.

And I know you're related to him, right? Like, no, like, probably dissonantly back in Germany because Funk is the equivalent of Smith and German. But so I finally actually had to meet Funk in Syria when I was, under his charge because Funk had the overall mission both in Iraq and Syria at the time. So whenever Fong or Votel or any other star or

high GS level employee would roll in the town, I would help coordinate who was meeting them where they're going, all of that fun stuff. But then also being integrated with what was going on at the time with both at the strategic level and our level with

you know, if Turkey was invading a certain area of Syria, the Kurds, but then all of a sudden, you know, stop fighting ISIS because they were trying to go help their buddies that were getting shot at by the Turks. Like it was, yeah, a lot going on. Yeah, yeah. I mean, since you had this sort of like big picture view of what was going on in Syria at that time, can you kind of like lay on us, like what was going on on the ground in Syria with the special operations task force? I think it was called the EFT at the time the expeditionary I'm sorry ETF stands for

Expeditionary Task Force I in my role had nothing to do with that you still got me yeah we got you I can hear you okay sweet my seven year old was trying to FaceTime me

I'm still trying to FaceTime me no that's it's all good um anyway i'm gonna keep talking am i breaking up at all or is it coming through right the screen is moving but we can hear you okay okay so um so you basically had in large for just like you did have anywhere where you have an operation going on you you're going to have uh uh what where i was at was much more of the the conventional fight but with soft forces so the fight that we were supporting with the ODAs was with the Kurds. We had the SBA, the Syrian

Defense force. Yeah, defense force. Or Syrian democratic forces. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, but okay, you're right. Second time. So we were basically fighting a conventional fight with a terrorist organization that had ground. And so we were

fighting against them, pushing the back, taking back, you know, no shit, you know, geographical terrain in a conventional fight. I remember being in the talk one day when they were joking about, you know, like all these SF guys had absolutely like we're actually doing, oh crap, what's the terminology for it? Train symbology, you know, drawing stuff on maps, right? Like actually doing like defensive positions. Oh, like doing map overlays?

No, there's a better term for that. arts and graphics. Yeah, I'm drawing a blank. Anyway, basically, yeah, doing overlay being like, hey, we're putting up, we're setting up a defensive fighting positions, and we're doing tank, you know, ditches and, you know, all that stuff. And so the stuff guys are like, we don't, we don't do this. We're having to, like, kind of look like the book,

looking at doctors to see what these lines mean. And so that's what, then that's what I was involved with. But parallel to that, there was the CT mission going on of taking, you know, our elite guys in and kicking indoors and taking high-value targets back to detain them. So that was going on. That I occasionally saw a mission brief just for deconfliction purposes, like, hey, we're going to be here just for your essay. Okay, cool. And what state, I mean, while you were there, I mean, how did you guys perceive the conflict as going? And what was even the goal when you were over there?

So at that point, I think ISIS, I don't think ISIS is out of Mosul yet. We called it the Merv, the Middle Euphrates River Valley. So this was after, is it Raqa, is that the right? Rocco was the ISIS capital. The capital. So Raqa had fell. And so I think ISIS was down to maybe a third of the terrain that they at their peak had had. But they were still dangerous.

Really for us, we spent, I felt, just as much time trying to figure out what the Russians and the Syrians and the Turks were doing as we were what ISIS was doing. Like, it was seriously, like, I mean, it was, you know, we were worried, you know, there, there were pot shots going between the Turkish and the Syrian border. And, you know, the Ski-F was worried there. And Urdu, Erdogan was, you know, pushing into enclaves that were primarily Kurdish. But so for the ISIS standpoint, and I guess what I'm trying to get to is it was all of that, because our primary focus was the defeat of ISIS like that. was their mission. That was why we were there. But there were other, you know, geopolitical actors at play that were preventing that, because every time Erdogan would be like, hey, we're going to go take care of these Kurds,

and we would lose our fighting force or inability. And that's why in large part, like, we actually had to go into a defensive position on a pause because, you know, a large part of the Kurdish force is like, hey, we don't have the manpower right now. We've got this other problem to take care of. Like, it will be all right. And we'll come back. I'm like, well, what else we're going to do? Like, our fighting force is saying, we're not going to go in the offense right now.

So I got to see that, like, we were making ground, then we stopped, and then we paused, and then right before I left, we started going into the offensive again. And I think by the time, you know, I actually left the group to go back home. Like, I think ISIS pretty much was gone at that point. I mean, granted, their capabilities were all up. I mean, they didn't, they no longer pose the threat. that they did at the height of their power. But we were also seeing the transition

where they were starting to go underground. And they were starting to be like, like, you know, going back into the shadows and doing what AQI did. 10 years, I mean, because that's what ISIS, you know, was born from. They were just reverting back to their own, your old ways.

And then you were there for the whole shit show at Derazor? I think so. Remind me. I remember the name, When it was announced, when it was kind of abruptly announced, we were going to pull out of Syria. And then it was like, well, no, we're going to stick around and keep the oil fields. And then the Bradley's came in.

No, that was after I left. I was there when Red Line got crossed and Tomahawks got dropped on. All right. A side locations. And then I showed up a couple months after we had wasted away about 400 Russian mercenary. Yeah, the Wagner. Yeah, so that was, that was, I mean, I wasn't there for that. I got to see some of the video after the fact we had a conversation for the guys that didn't see it.

And, and, you know, I, it was, I didn't, the officer, the overall, you know, former SMU general that was in charge of that, you know, I remember hearing the story, they didn't talk to him about it. I definitely met him. about how he was basically just kind of like looking at his screen and going, all right, kill that, kill that, kill that. Because we were, apparently like everything was in the air, everything was rain. And the moment they launched munitions in the wrong, right, you know, just close enough in the direction of some of our guys that, you know, that was the trigger and all hell broke loose and they just got.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, Joel. But didn't we, we actually did use like the red line phone with the Russians and ask them like, hey, are these your boys? And they were like, not us. They're like, okay. That's the story I heard. And then it was just mayhem after that. Yeah.

Well, and actually, when I was there, they did try, it looked like they tried to do the little green men, you know, little green men approach as well. And then we deterred that with a bomb. Like trying to infiltrate, you know, your lines with irregular. Yeah. Yeah.

Some people never learned, man. Well, I mean, Putin has his objectives, and we definitely see what's happening in Ukraine now. I mean, this isn't, you know, like I mentioned earlier before the call, like, I've been benching, you know, a lot of frontline lately and kind of rehashing, you know, the narrative of Putin from when he came into power until now. And, you know, it's, it's, you know, the threat is there. regardless we're talking about Georgia or we're talking about Chechnya or we're talking about Syria or now Ukraine. Like the same approach has been happening. He's just pushing it a little bit further until he finally gets because he hasn't been stopped yet. Right.

Right. It's sort of the same way. Yeah, Russia is still a democracy. I'm just always the president forever. Of course. Right. So, I mean, if you have any recollections, I mean, that was. Early on in the, pretty early on in the Trump administration where, you know, we fired, it was in response to a chemical weapons attack, right? And we fired a Tomahawk missiles on some of the regime targets. What was that like from your standpoint being in Syria?

Um, it was concerning, right? I mean, because we had to heads up that it was going to happen. Um, I remember. there were some jokes about gas masks and freaking out the battalion command or the uh i mean battalion he was this you know the soda commander about the exo walking in with the gas mask and you know just freaking him out like hey sir like are you ready um but yeah i mean i remember taking a you know i was trying to be careful right like i didn't let many people know where i was going or where i was but I remember the day the next day like you know I woke up and there was a praying mantis on the steps outside my my little chew I took a picture of it and I was like hey we're still here it was just kind of cool you know you don't see many of those ever and then you know here he is

hanging out in my you know my front porch in Syria but yeah it was we were watching it you We saw the, you know, we knew what was happening before it happened. We watched the speech on TV. And it appeared that we de-conflicted as best we can. Like, we told the Russians what was going to happen. If you take a look, you look at the open source information that's available now, like the Russians moved all this stuff, you know, out of the way. But yeah, so, but yeah, the movement, the giving,

Curtis ground to turks that happened after I left. I was there, though, when we were preparing, because we were moving, we were trying to prepare for phase three to face four. And for those that aren't aware, you know, you get five phases of operations within the military. And phase three is like kinetic. Like, you're, that's the moment really. You're killing each other, shooting each other, you're destroying each other's forces.

But then after the shooting war stops, you get into, you know, more stability operations and trying to, reestablished public services. And so we were, you know, trying to do our due diligence and trying to prepare for what was going to come after, ISIS was gone. And so I was there when we had that, you know, weeks of preparatory information and putting briefs together when, when it went to the, you know, the president's desk,

and then the next day it was announced that he made a comment about leading. And that was unexpected because that wasn't part. of, you know, obviously we weren't leaving yet because the mission wasn't complete. Isis still had ground and it was still very much not just a terrorist threat, but a no ship like military, you know, thread that had terrain, had grounded, they had, you know, it, anyway, so, you know, that, that definitely was a seismic shift, you know, even in the, in the defect, you know, we really had it, we call it a defect, you know, because we, our local, you know, our food was locally provided or made by local Syrian Kurds.

And, you know, we had those conversations. I had that conversation with one of the chefs. He was worried. Like, like, these guys are working with us. You know, they were worried just like, you know, South Vietnamese were when, you know, the North Vietnamese road in, like, what's going to happen to them if we just pull out? Right.

And that was up and up and down the chain. You know, that's just in the kitchen, but, you know, the guys that were trying to fight ISIS, It's like, like, we're working with you. Like, we can't do this if you guys leave. Yeah. He just to say that kind of got smoothed out and we continue to work with them. And as far as I know, I don't know to what extent we still have, you know, troops on the ground now and support of them. But, you know, courage are strong people.

After that deployment, you decided to retire from the military or get out of the military. And I'd be interested to hear. a little bit about your transition process and where you are. Do we have any questions for Joel? We have a couple of comments. Let me get those real quick. A couple of comments questions. So

Joel, why don't you just hit us up with kind of like what that transition was like for you? So I for me I did my best to plan for it. I mean, I've definitely heard all the stories of how difficult could be, and in large part, it's, you know, it's still ongoing.

Like, you know, trying to find that, that post-Army job that works. Like, because you, you know, I'm not flying. You know, I'm, you know, I did have a plan of always getting into agriculture. But then, you know, you have a certain set of skills and experience and understanding, but also you haven't been home for, you know, however many years have been gone. you try to fill that gap and you're also dealing with physical constraints so for me the best thing I did was I came across a program through the career skills program so I was able to sign up and get my my group commander to sign off on allowing me to come home on an internship so I interned

our local farm that was doing pasture raised to regenerative agriculture so I was you know I was still getting you know I was still on Army dime so I had all the benefits of working for a farmer learning his skills and his trade so I could apply that to what I wanted to do. And so that was beneficial. Yeah, I mean, it hasn't been easy. I'm still working on it, still figuring out. I mean, I got out in the summer of 19. It's 23 now, right?

So that's what? Four years? It's a process. Yeah. It is, but it's good to be back and to be able to, you know, have that experience, have that wider aperture to bring back home. I don't know if I actually answered the question or not. So, yeah, I interned.

I did the farming thing. I'm still working on the farm. And that's, of course, a gradual process, because it's, you know, anyone to tell you when you start a business, you know, at least what I've heard, you're talking, you know, at least five years so you're really profitable. So, you know, I'm working on my taxes now and we're projected, you know, right now, you know, I guess the sole source of farm income is just selling eggs,

which I wasn't planning on having a giant, you know, egg shortage across the country. And I have raised my prices, even though everyone else has. I raised prices earlier this year due to the inflation, you know, pressures. But, you know, we're expected to have about $25,000 worth of sales, you know, this year. Of eggs? 500 birds. We talked about this before the show, though.

All you have to do is raise corn and get those sweet government subsidies for that high fructose corn syrup. Right, right. I'm trying to take it a different direction. So, you know, and there's a lot to be said. And for those that you're interested in, there's planning to be, you know, to watch or read about it. You know, if you look over the course in the last 50, 60 years, agriculture has gone the way of many other industries. There's more automation. There's more centralization.

There's, you know, you've lost margin to scale. So, you know, if you want to be a wholesale farmer, you're raising corn, you're raising soil, you're raising wheat, and you harvest it and you take it to the, to the, to the, you know, market. You know, your margins are pretty thin. So you have to be able to make any money off of it, you've got to get thousands of vagars. And we don't have that. We got a couple hundred.

And so for me, as I'm looking across the spectrum, and that's, you know, another reason why I went into the military. My parents didn't encourage me to go into farming. They saw how much work it was and how much it doesn't necessarily pay off. But I think it can and it will. take a different direction. You have to use a different business model. You have to use, you know, be a little bit more, be more innovative and go away from the wholesale concept to a retail concept and work with customers and your steps in the marketplace. It's,

it's more, definitely more intensive and you're operating basically as a CEO, CFO, and your own marketing agency. But that for me, and granted, I'm still in the process of making it happen by no means a resigning success story yet but you have to increase your revenue per acre and you have to add value to whatever you're selling.

Got questions for Joel? Yeah. So first off thank you very much from Jungle Jim Scott two Citadel Bros, CIA vet Basil Baz, a former guest on our show and I

Jungle Jim Scott send our congrats for your Roak 160th service. Jack is going to interview my friend James Files, the CIA mercenary who shot JFK soon. Jack has had my cell number. Call me later. Go dogs. Awesome.

And did he say what company he was in? He did not. No. And for for him, I was a battery battery boy. It was a palm metal battery. We had to fire on the cannons at parade.

what are the different companies there I probably they've added more since we've left but everything's alphabetical you got A through alpha bravo Charlie all the way to like tango I think they added a quibback and they probably have an extra at this point

damn quick Canadians are everywhere these days and Joe's got you thank you very much does one six step any role in advising and training other countries special operations national aviation units like are there exchange programs where you go over to learn or teach this level of aviation i i completely forgot i kind of gloss over that so at super bowl was cool you know flying with a bomb oh was cool but my favorite training mission ever was going to columbia south america and and that's exactly what we did and so yes we do no granted they don't have

nearly advanced you know they don't have to you know nearly the budget we do but to kind of recap that mission we were the first as far as I know and that's what we were saying at the time organic helicopter unit that self-deployed from Savannah Georgia to Columbia South America so we flew from Savannah to Florida then to the Dominican Republic we helicopter air to air refuel en route to there and then Dom Rep I actually depending on you ask I broke the helicopter and the helicopter just happened after the stress fracture in the blade

because of my really shitting job of hooking up to the MC 130. They hung out there for a couple of days and then we went to Columbia South America. In Columbia, we did training at two locations. They have a base in their Carpahania, which is based kind of like their Fort Benning and their Fort Rucker shoved together.

So they have aviation and they have infantry. And so some of the pictures that I sent over showed that. So we were doing we were doing jumps. We were doing over mountain and really one of the scariest flights I ever had. You know, I didn't think I was going to die. But it was one of those ass-pookering moments, was trying to fly over the 80s at night in between cloud layers. We actually flew, we flew back because we had one of the aircraft exceeded an air temp

or an engine temp limit because we were pulling so much power to try to get up. get over the mountains at night, of course. So, yeah, so we were, everywhere we were going in Columbia, we had a Colombian aircraft working with us. And then we were doing stuff with their ground forces. And then when we went to up near, no, Cardahania is on the coast, Tullamida. So Carthagena is where we did the ground,

the water stuff. We worked with their equivalent of like seals. So, yeah, that was great. That was fun. That was a fun trip. And then this is actually just a comment that somebody pointed out that Alan Mack, let Funk know I say hello and wish him well. Alan's scheduled on the show.

NSDQ. You have his book. NSDQ forever. Awesome. Thank you, Al. I was going to plug your book at you into this because I don't have one. So I'm glad you're going to be on the show. So Al never flew with him.

I would have loved you of. He was the S.P. when I went through Greenportton. And so that man, that's a national treasure. He's got a lot more cool stories for me. And is NSDQ, Nightstalkers don't quit?

Right on. There you go. So, Joel, I mean, you made a run for Congress. Do you have any other political ambitions, dare I ask, that we got into that territory on this podcast? But, I mean, what are the points for the future? I do.

So, you know, I'm 39, right? So I'm young. You know, I've, so I ran for Congress. I lost in the primary. I'm going to keep this as nonpartisan as possible. Thank you. You know, but I lost the primary by a couple hundred votes out of 50,000. So that's a pretty good, pretty good number.

But I'm a, you know, I'm a product of gerrymandering, right? So there's no point in me running for Congress for the next 10 years because the district I'm in, this is the bottom third of the state. It's got like 35, just 35 counties. And if anyone, you can pull the maps and look at it, but,

you know, the guy that's there is going to be there too. He dies or retires. And it's not much better at the state level. And I ran for county board this last cycle. And same thing. Like, you know,

they've, the lines are drawn. So if you've got a particular letter next to your name, you're pretty much, you know, up, 5% you're going to either win it just because of the letter next year because of the way that the lines have drawn.

So yes, I will run and I will continue to run. I'm on the school board for a couple more years until I'm up for that reelection. But I mean, we need good people in office. We need people that are devoted to service that aren't just, you know, screaming and yelling and just, you know, just, trying to be in office is to be in office and actually make stuff happen. I don't think anyone in this list and this will agree that our politics is not broken and dysfunctional. And that has some very deep root causes, which is the two-party system, the winner take all.

And we need election reform. So until, you know, I'm a believer of markets and the marketplace. And the marketplace to me means more than just, you know, the stock market. I have interest in finance. I'm working in finance now as well in addition to the farming. What marketplace to me is ideas and people. And the more diversity you have, the more fair it is, you know, the best product wins, the best idea, the best candidate, as opposed to just, you know,

the party that you know the monopoly that happens to be in place and so things like bring choice voting you know will I think advance that I think you know we haven't had another thing is increasing the number of congressmen or congresspersons that we have in DC we capped at the 1900s and so you know what that allows for is a more stratification of our population rural urban and so So the more we're divided, you know, and I don't want to be hyperbolic about it, but, you know, if you look at places that have fallen apart, whether it be Afghanistan or Libya, I mean, you see where a breakdown in civic discourse and in governance will then transpire into, you know, eventually, you know, violence, where, you know, one demographic, usually, you know, you know, not necessarily always geographically, but often geographically, it was like they're disenfranchised. And then if politics doesn't work, politics is, you know, the way where we take legitimate grievances, and we hash them out, and we try to make bargains and make things that's fair.

And if people don't be like the grievances are being heard and, you know, things are getting better, then government is no longer legitimate. Right. Further escalates. And that goes for all sides and all segments of the population, right? Right. Joel, where can people find you if they're looking for you, if they want to subscribe to the Joel Funk newsletter, you know, Joel for Congress? Or move to your district and elect you or buy your eggs.

Right. So I'm not marketing eggs. outside the local area thus far. So, I mean, you can you know, really, you know, I still hold a political page on Facebook.

You know, it's Joel Funk as opposed than Joel D.Funk, which is my personal. And then we had the Funk Family Farm Facebook page. But I would say, you know, really, you know, focus on finding local, local farmers, local producers,

buy local, you know, get to know your farmer. You know, once again, I'm a firm reliever in the marketplace. So, you know, use, don't just vote, use your money and vote. So if you don't like the way things are and you don't like the fact that, you know, local producers and small businesses and family farmers aren't making it anymore, you know, buy from them, get to know them. Don't just buy everything on Amazon and, you know, buy your vegetables or your eggs at Walmart

and use your vote with your dollars and the ballot. Right. Like people can complain about a company like Monsando or whatever. But if they're not going to their local markets, if they're not going to like their the farmer's markets, like you can complain about it all day long, but if you're

still giving these companies, these organizations, your money, it doesn't matter what you're complaining about. Right. Yeah. Just get to know them, elevate the the voices that are out there trying to make a difference like Joel Salatin, you know, and others within the regenerative agriculture movement.

Yeah, or, you know, I'll give him up, my friend Charlie Jordan, you know, near Ford Campbell. Al knows him,

knows him very well. He's, he's getting into flowers, or he's, he's been into flowers for a couple years now. You know, great guy. He's a guy that gave me a,

you know, like I mentioned earlier, he gave me my check ride. I'm leaving the beam of cute. or leaving the office agreement too. So, guys, this coming Monday, we're going to have another show. We're going to have Chad Collins on the show. A little bit different.

He's an actor. Yeah, he is the star of the sniper franchise. He has taken the reins from Tom Barringer and is the star of the show. Jack is going to fan boy out. And he is also, he also plays a character in the Call of Duty video games. So he's going to be on Monday. And then on Friday, Tim Weiner is coming back on the show. Nice.

For a second appearance. We'll be talking more about contemporary stuff about the intelligence community. So that'll be Friday. Joel, thank you so much for coming on the show, spending a few hours of your Friday night with us. Thank you so much, Joel. Yes, it's been a really good one. Yeah. Awesome.

Thanks, guys. I appreciate you having me and let me tell my story. And it was great to get to, you know, connect. with you. I mean, I guess one one last thing or two last things. I was going to say that a take away is, you know, regardless, you know, just kind of back on that transition conversation. Like, you know, you don't lose until you quit, right? So, you know, every time you hit a hurdle, you get a stumble, you know, it's just a process towards where you're going. You're not a loser until you quit. And that's why I, you know, that's why I, you're, you know, that's why I max off his little quick. And also, I just, I just, it just left me. What was, what were you saying? There's another take.

There's another takeaway? Ah, crap. I can't remember. Something about you, if you want to tell us, we'll post it everywhere. If you remember, just like message us. Or we can sit, we can just sit around and everybody be quiet for like the next five minutes. And if it comes up.

Well, what were you just saying? We were talking about Joe. We were talking about Joe. We're talking about Jack fanboying out. We're talking about politics. Tim We're talking about. Tim We're talking about eggs and local farming. Monsanto.

God damn. I can't remember. It was not quitting. And yeah, whatever. I don't agree it. I'm supposed to be the one who's drunk on this show. It's okay. All right, guys.

We will see you on Monday and then again on Friday. Joel, thank you so much. We deeply appreciate it, man. Thanks, you guys. Take care. Take care.