The Team House - Army Special Mission Unit Operator | Adam Gamal | Ep. 276

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

Support the show here:⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ADAM GAMAL is a pseudonym created to keep the author and his family safe from harm. Gamal served in the most elite units in the US Army, deployed more than a dozen times, and finally retired in 2016. His awards include the Bronze Star Medal, the Purple Heart, and the Legion of Merit. He is currently an international consultant for a security organization.Grab Adam's book here⬇️https://www.amazon.com/Unit-Inside-Americas-Secret-Military-ebook/dp/B09Y457JN5------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------To help support the show and for all bonus content including:https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse-AD FREE AUDIO-AD FREE VIDEO-Access to ALL bonus segments with our guestsSubscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouseOr make a one time donation at: ⬇️https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouseTeam House merch: ⬇️https://teespring.com/stores/my-store-10474963Social Media: ⬇️The Team House Instagram:https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_linkThe Team House Twitter:https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePodJack’s Instagram:https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_linkJack’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21Dave’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/dave_parke?s=21Team House Discord: ⬇️https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6SubReddit: ⬇️https://www.reddit.com/r/TheTeamHouse/Jack Murphy's memoir "Murphy's Law" can be found here:⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Law-Journey-Investigative-Journalist/dp/1501191241The Team Room Reading Room (Amazon Affiliate links):⬇️ https://jackmurphywrites.com/the-team-room-reading-room/Intro music by https://www.youtube.com/user/RemixSampleWant to sponsor the show?Email: ⬇️[e-mail]#theunit #jsocBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

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Covert Ops. Espionage, The Team House, with your host, Jack Murphy and David Park. Hey folks, welcome to episode 276 of The Team House. I'm Jack here with Dave. Our guest on tonight's show is Adam Gamal. He is the author of The Unit with Kelly Kennedy, My Life Fighting Terrorists, as one of America's most secret military operatives. Adam is one of the very few people we've ever had on this show under alias whose identity is being

censored for some valid reasons that you'll probably be able to pick up on as this interview goes on. Adam, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Thanks for inviting me. So let's start at the beginning. You know, you are a immigrant. Can you tell us a little bit about like how you grew up overseas and sort of what your immigration story was? Yep, absolutely. So I was born in Egypt, went school in Egypt, a year or two after high school. I went to law school. So law school in Egypt is after high school, not after college. Europe and a lot of other countries other than the U.S., they have that. And when I was in college, Egypt was still under some sort of a martial law just because of the assassination of President Saddam.

in 1981. So I had a college professor who was like the guy with a lot of wisdom and he's like, hey, by the way, whatever law you study in here, most likely you'll never practice because we're going to be under laws of emergency for a while. So that I have a light bulb just goes on in my head. And I'm like, well, it's time for me to leave to go somewhere else. I had a lot of back and forth fighting with the Muslim Brotherhood running against them in a student body in college. I got beaten by them a few times. I was like, I know what? Maybe I should leave.

So I wanted to, initially, I was like, okay, I'll go somewhere in Europe. It's easier to travel to Europe than to come to the US. The US was very hard to get a visa, to get a student visa and an immigration status. So I went to the embassy of Austria. They said no. We're not giving you a visa.

So I went to the embassy of France. There was around Desert Storm, right after the embassy. or so and so France was not given visas to anybody to travel outside of Egypt at that time so in the way back there is a US consulate so it was three of us trying to travel that one guy was like hey man we can just stop by the American consulate and I was like well these other two countries didn't give us a visa what makes you think the US will do us a visa so he's like well nothing to lose we just stop by and get an application so I get an application fill it out then I go to up to go for the interview the lady who's like You're supposed to have, like, you know, bank statements shows that you have money.

You have properties. You have all of these things. So I go and I have nothing, honestly. I didn't even have the money to pay for the visa. So I, when for the interview, the lady was like, hey, you're supposed to have, do you have any of those things? I said, well, the application doesn't say I'm supposed to bring any of these things. You didn't tell me. Nobody said anything.

So she's like, well, if I let you go and come back, would you bring it? I said, yeah, absolutely. Exactly. So she's, when can you bring it? I said, whenever you want me to come back. She's like tomorrow. I said, this is not the US, it's Egypt. It's going to take me two days.

Can I come the day after tomorrow? So she's like, yeah, you can come the day after tomorrow. So I go, come back in two days with one of those small bags that people carry with nothing in it. Like literally nothing. I walk in and the lady asked me, did you apply for a visa before? I said, yeah, I was here two days ago, and I'm coming to submit the documents you guys asked for. She's like, do you have it? I see the ad send his bag, you want to see it?

She's like, no. And she's like, she asked for the equivalent of, I think, $3.50. That was the fees for the visa. That time, when I was going, my brother gave me the money. And he's like, hey, you never know. Just take the money with you. So she's like, it was like 29 Egyptian pounds. So I gave her 29 Egyptian pounds.

And she's like, give me your passport. I go in the afternoon to pick up my passport with a visa on it. Two weeks after, I was in New York City. So that's the first step. And what kind of visa did you come here on? Like, what was your game plan? So I didn't have a game plan. I was like, let me just get the fuck out of here.

So initially, so they give you a tourist visa. My plan was I'm going to come on the tourist visa, apply for student visa, and change my visa. So I went to Hunter College to learn English as a second language. And then you can go through that to apply to change your business. your visa status from tourist visa to student visa. So that's what I did. But I didn't have a game plan, honestly.

I was like, you know what, I'm just coming. I borrowed $500 from my sister. I didn't have any money. I didn't speak in English. I landed in New York City in JFK, not far from here. Took the subway. It took me like an hour to get out of the subway because I didn't know how to get out of the subway.

Spend the first night in the YMCA. Couldn't dial a phone to call a friend to come and pick me up. some junkie guy standing by the bathroom saw me go into that phone like 10 times think he gets sick and tired of seeing me that phone number I have did not have one in front of it with the area could so I'm dialing the phone number somebody in Jersey and just if the operator said something in English I didn't understand I'm like what the fuck it gives me my quarterback finally that guy is like him let me

let me get this number so the guy took the number he dialed the one dialed the number I called the friend was like two o'clock in the morning by then a guy who was a scout with me when I was in Egypt. I tell him what I'm at. He's like, don't leave. Just go back to your room, lock the door and put the bed behind the door. Just don't move. Next day he came and picked me up and took me to a place where a lot of immigrants live in there, so slept on the floor with no mattress, nothing, just on the carpet for the first three months. And then I started learning English and I started doing things. And then here I am, fucking guys.

What was the culture shock like? So it was huge for a few reasons. Number one, I came in July and it was fucking raining. I'm like, man, it doesn't rain in Egypt in the summer. Number two, the year before it was the movie Pretty Woman. So I see Richard Gere, Julia Roberts, the limo. So I'm coming here and I'm like, you know, I'm coming here to see all of these great things. I land and I'm like, no Lemos, no Julia Roberts.

Nobody. So it was huge. And then I was terrified, honestly. I didn't understand what anybody was saying. And then the YMCA in Egypt is a decent place to stay at for students. Obviously, the YMCA here was not the nicest place to stay. I was hiding my $500 in my shoes because I was terrified. And then a lot of, then you come honestly and it's not like, what you think you think the US is that clean everywhere nice everywhere beautiful everywhere well some areas as you guys would know that not what you would think right right but yeah that's the thing then there is another cultural shock where in Egypt for example police officers guys that you don't talk to here actually the guy who helped me to get out of the subway station with a police officer who's

very kind very nice the guy who helped me to dial the phone number with a junkie again was really nice so you start seeing that people helping you without you having any connection with them. So that's the positive side of the cultural shock. And so you got your student visa, started going to school here, and how did things start to evolve for you over the next couple years? So you get your student visa, you work. So I kind of like I pumped gas and gas stations.

So New Jersey, like you said in your book, it's I think the only state with full service gas stations. Yeah, yeah. So I'm the guy standing pumping gas. I worked in a bakery, delivered bread to hotels, like super early in the morning. So my day, some days would start, like, from 2 o'clock in the morning to go deliver, like, cakes and bread to hotels.

Finish that, work in a ladies sportswear store in Bayonne, New Jersey. Finish that, then go to school to learn English from, like, 5 until, like, from 6 to 9 o'clock. Then those days will keep going. Then Hunter College is expensive, so I moved to another community college in New Jersey. Again, doing all of these different odd jobs, moving. I moved, I think, like 11 times between different houses in the first like two, three years. One day I'm working in a steward and an army recruiter walks in. The guy dressed nice, looks cool, and they give you this pre-asvap, like a 10-minute test.

And he's like, man, if you take this, you can, you can, you can, you can. and you passed, then you can join the army and we'll pay for your call. So he just kind of came in cold calling with like this? He's just walking. He's just walking around. At that time, I did not have my green card yet. Yeah. So I could not join the army.

Obviously, I didn't tell the guy there, but I took the test, the pre-test. Then I kept the number. I kept everything. Then I lived in Jersey City, in Bayonne, New Jersey, between those areas. And like any immigrant, like do you go to where people who look like you are there? The community. The community. So there is a mosque in Jersey City.

So a lot of people are like, hey, you can go there and people will help you. So the blind shake from the First World Church Santa Barbara was there. So I'm like, I left the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, and then I come here and that guy is sitting there. He was not doing the sermon or anything, but he was just there. So after a Friday sermon, he's sitting down and talking. I was like, well, let me just sit and see what the guy has to say. And people are saying and asking him a question. And I'm like, let me just see what, like,

that guy with all of this wisdom, what he's going to say and what people are going to ask him. So one guy, I think it was the first or second question. One guy was like, I want to ask something. Is oral sex forbidden in Islam or not? So the guy talks, and I'm like, so now you have this opportunity to get from this wise guy, the answer to how you're going to go to heaven.

and he asking him that. So I put in the book what the answer was. And then I was like, you know what? Maybe I'm just saying in the wrong place. Right across the street from that, honestly, it was a recruiting station. By then, I have gotten my green card. So I went to the recruiting station.

And I said, hey, I'm here I want to join the Navy. And an army guy met me. And he's like, why do you want to join the Navy? I say, you know, like I grew up in and ridied by the water in Alexandria, Egypt. I like the water. I think the Navy would be really cool. The guy was like, we have boats in the army. And if you want to join the Air Force, we'll have aeroplanes in the army.

You should join the army. And he talked to me, talked to me, talked to me, talked to me. And by the time he was done, he was a Puerto Rican guy, by the time he was done, I was going to take my ASVAP to join the army. and sold how long did it take you from the time you landed at jfk to like getting your green card and then like signing your papers from the military four years four years for you so i uh three three and a half but between three and four years

because initially when i signed for the army i signed uh on a delay entry program because i was in college i was taking college classes and they wouldn't uh they wouldn't take you out of college to joined so they put me in the delay entry program for I think about four or five months then summer of 1995 is when I was shipped to basic training and how old were you at that time 25 25 so you're you're an old man by military standards yep absolutely and and I think it helps too because all of these mind games they play with you in basic training you've know you've seen it because you join in an older age you didn't because you were a young guy still not very young but young so once you join in the age your drill sergeant might be I was 25 my drill sergeant most likely was like it

was like 24 yeah so it was kind of like odd yeah but we had a guy who was 31 who had a female she was 30 31 she grew up in between Nigeria and the UK she was a lawyer so we had all of this mix of people. What MOS did you come in under and start training for? So initially, when you're not a US citizen, there are limited jobs you can have. So initially I was what used to be 71 Lima, which is admin, administrative club. And I told the recruiter, like, hey, I want to have a really cool job. So if you read the job descriptions in the Army manual, every job is a cool job.

Right. So the administrative specialist sounded like, as a matter of fact, like, you know, the guy who puts gas in cars, it says petroleum specialist and you read it, he's like, wow, this is an awesome job. Yeah. I'm going to be like an oil engineer. A specialist. Exactly. So I was a 71 Lima, which is an administrative specialist. Cool. So you get through basic training and start your army career as an administrative specialist. What's it like for you? Are you enjoying the army at this point? So basic training is horrible for a lot. people basic training was not too much fun for me either you know like the first day in basic training when they do this ice break and things and they talk to people and you know where are you from why you joined the army so when you tell people I'm from Egypt that that it's something not expected they you the first guy

most likely they've ever met right from each I used to have people in basic training just tell me talk because they've never heard that anybody speak with an accent and I was like wow this is really weird so the drill sergeant made it didn't make it fun either but then after that my first assignment was so I was holdover in basic and in in in not in basic training in AIT so after basic training I was hold over for security clearance holdover although 71 Lima does not require right so I was wrecking leaves like more than like I became a like an expert

and how to wreck leave I was like these guys that they can have me do a lot of other things but I'm wrecking leaves everything it was like the fall so you can wreck leaves and then tomorrow you have leaves everywhere then it was Thanksgiving of 95 is when I got shipped to for two Texas when they're obviously I'm terrified I still can't well let me take you back a bit when I signed for the army there is something I think it's called like nine whiskey or something where they put on your contract to basically be evaluated for English. Okay.

So I didn't know that. And so I went to basic training, not knowing they're supposed to evaluate me if I can understand English enough to go to AIT after that, or they'll send me to San Antonio for English as a second language. Well, I memorized the smart book. So they thought I knew English. So people will ask me like, you know, what's this? I'll say a cup of coffee because the answer is a cup of coffee. Right. But not knowing really what's going on.

So the drill sergeants, they said, this guy can speak English good enough to be in the Army. So I'm like, great. So I didn't know that until they told me after. Then when I went to Fort Hood, Texas, I was assigned to a military police unit. The military police unit, I have a sergeant first class took me under his wings, and the guy really,

I tell everybody, like, when he joined the Army, you want to go, so there is a strategic assignment and tactical assignments. I tell everybody like, go to a tactical assignment in the beginning, learn how to soldier. If you are lucky, you're going to have a good supervisor. He's going to teach you how to, what's important in the arm. So the guy was like, hey, man, make sure your boots are pitch-hined. Your uniform is starched and you have a high and tight haircut.

Make sure you can run. If you do those four things, you're going to go places in the arm. I'm like, you know what? This is the easiest job ever. because every Sunday I would spend my time on specializing my boots. I take my uniform to get it stork, go have a haircut, and just run. And I'm like, you know, this is easy. So they start sending me to take some computer classes, PowerPoint classes.

The unit deployed to Bosnia four months after I was there, five months after I was there. So basically, I deployed for nine months where this is immersion. This is language immersion, military immersion. You are there with military for nine months. My first book that I really read that was not in school, I've read when I was there. My platoon sergeant was Sergeant for the past green, gave me the book and he's like, hey, read it, and I'll help you with it.

University of Maryland went there. I took college classes. And then you soldier in 24-7. Yeah. You go sleep and you have your PT uniform and your fatigues. And you don't even have any other clothes. So you're doing that 24-7. So I came back, English is a lot better.

I can read more. And when I came back, I felt like I can soldier a lot better. And then when you're there, you're exercising, you're doing PT. I used to go out with the whenever they were short, like, you know, gunners. I'm a guy who's fit, Sergeant First Class Green trying to help me out. So he's like, hey, man, just go out with whatever. whoever is going on patrol. So I would go out with units, squads going on patrol,

come back, do my job. I did that for the entire nine months. I was in Bosnia. When I came back, I was like, well, I've done something cool. Let me PCS. So I asked PCS that they sent me to Germany. And was this in the, it's still an administrative field? Yeah, so I was in an admin guy.

And, but I didn't really do a lot of, I mean, And I did the admin work, but I did the other stuff. Like when I was in a military police unit, I did the military police stuff. Yeah. When I went to Germany, I was in an infantry unit. So they sent me to do infantry stuff. So I've learned a lot from that. And then when I was in Germany, I got my citizenship.

They sent me back to Texas to get my citizenship. It was really cool. And the guy who did my citizenship test, he's like, what are you going to do next? You can do anything you want in the army now. You are a U.S. citizen. I'm like, awesome. I might be an officer, I might do something else, I might be an MI guy, but I wanted to be an interrogator.

So I called the interrogator branch, and I said, hey, guys, my US citizen now. I want to be an interrogator. And the guy was like, what language? I said Arabic. This was 1999. 98, 99. And the guy was like, what language?

I said Arabic. He's like, I have no need for you. I'm like, so I wanted to expect. I'm playing to him more. I said, by the way, three, three Arabic native, you don't have to send me to the ally. I'm going to save you a lot of money.

You just send me to school. And it's going to save the army a year of training. He's like, what language again? I said Arabic. He's like, I don't fucking need you. What part of that you don't understand? What part of Serbo-Croat do you not understand there, Adam? Exactly.

Adam, just to back up, like, when you were in Basic or any of that other time, did they ever have you, like, take the D-Lab, take the DLP, do anything. Did they ever recognize, like, your language skills and look to groom you because of that? He's given the military a lot of credit, man. I know. Well.

Absolutely not. So I'll tell you, actually, the first guy he said something about language, the guy who drove me from MEPs. When he drove me from MAPS back to, like, to where I live, and he's like, okay, I'm going to ship, like, you know, like a few weeks or a few months after because I was in the Dillian Enter program. The driver was like, he spoke to me in Spanish. And I said, well, I don't speak Spanish. And he's like, what language do you speak? I said Arabic. He's like, man, it would become very, very handy for you.

Just the driver. But after there, nobody ever said anything to me other than making fun of my fucking accent. And then with my real last name, it sounds Spanish. So everybody spoke to me in Spanish. So I've learned some Spanish. Even when I was in Germany and I thought about ETSM, and so my supervisor who was my supervisor for about seven eight months major russell and he's like what are you going to do i said i'm going to go to d l i to teach in d l i if i

if i e t s and he's like who the fuck want to learn spanish everybody speaks spanish i was like i don't speak spanish and he's like what did you speak i said arabic he's like what did you learn arabic i'm like i'm native so nobody ever uh offered that this is my shocked face yeah i see this is my shot face But what I did is I took the test on my own. Okay. I went and I said, you know what? It is like a language test.

Let me take it. So I took the test, get 3-3. I call and I'm like, guys, I want to change my job. And then there was a sergeant first class Pringle. She was the signal intelligence branch manager. There was no email was not very common. Like, not every soldier had an email back then. So I get a message, like one of these, I think it was like called telegram messages.

So I get one of these messages if you want to read class to Signal Intelligence call me. So I call her. And I'm like, I got this message from me. She's like, we'll give you $20,000. If you re-enlist, stay in the army, change to Signal Intelligence. I'm like, say again. So this interrogator guy doesn't want to even take me. You're going to give me $20,000?

Where do I sign? So, and she's like, so I did that. And so I came from Germany to, she's going to send me to school to a good fellow, their force base. And I get assignment to follow-up assignment to D.A. To teach Arabic. So I call her. I'm like, I'm just a brand new soldier in that field. I didn't want to go to D.A.

And I was, I was an E5 then. So she's like, where did you want to go? I said, Fort Bragg. she's like you get to be the dumbest guy in the army send me a 4187 fax it so I fax her a 4187 next day I had a follow-up assignment

to Fort Bragg and I was like you know what this is what I want to be and everybody was like so you got the opportunity to be assigned to the ally and you said no yeah in Monterey California with like 9 to 5 work hours

no homework weekends off I had I have no regard And you went to Fayetteville North Carolina. She offers you steak and lobster and you're like, I think I like the beans. Exactly. Exactly. So I went to airborne school in a route. So in airborne school, the black hat is like, what's your MOS?

I'm like 98 golf. So it used to be 98 golf before it became 35 pop-pon. He's like, what the fuck is that? Like they really didn't, like it was so unique. A lot of people didn't know anything about it. And he was like, I said, I was like, like, I was like, like he got to be one of those smart guys. So first jump in airborne school, I bounced off the fucking ground like a sack of shit. Like, and then the black hat comes with a big fucking one of those mega horns.

And he's like, hey, November, did you break your fucking leg? And I was like, I was very light. When I went to airborne school, I was, when I went the 80s, I remember the way in. I was 128 pounds. When I joined the army, I was 112 pounds. Wow. So when I went to airborne school, I used to see everybody landing and I'm like hanging there. And I'm just, I'm like, when am I going to come down?

Of course he come down and he bounce off a few times. I was like, man, I think I broke my thigh. I had a picture like really, really bruised and blue. But I've learned really like how to, like again, English is improving as you move on. And then I go to the 18th. and I'm the first, it was an MI battalion within the 82nd. And I was the first, so they were changing that battalion from Spanish to Arabic. So again, I go there and nobody thinks I spoke Arabic.

This guy, Spanish unit, he looks Spanish, he must be Spanish language. So everybody's speaking Spanish. And the guys, I swear I don't speak Spanish. But the S3 Sergeant Major was a good guy is to run with all the time. So there was a deal between DUD and the FBI. When the FBI needed linguists, they can borrow from DOD. So we had a guy in the unit, his name was Muhammad. So obviously if the unit has...

Spanish speaker. No, actually, he was a supply guy. So obviously, if the unit has one Arabic speaker, it must be Muhammad. So when the FBI asked for the Arabic speaker and the unit had one, so they went to Muhammad. They were like, hey, we need you to go to the Arabic. for the FBI because they need an Arabic speaker. Mom's like, I don't fucking speak Arabic.

So the S3 Sergeant Major goes to the S one, the admin section, and they're like, hey, who speaks Arabic? And she's like, you're running buddy, speaks Arabic. So he comes to me and he's like, hey, Sergeant G, what fucking language do you speak? It's Arabic. And he's like, how the fuck did you learn Arabic? So everybody really for the longest thought I spoke Spanish.

So I ended up going to the FBI for three months in 1999. And what were you doing when you were TDI to the FBI? So the FBI, they had one part I can't talk about, but it was related to the bin Laden personality himself. And then the other part is they had the Al-Qaeda manual. They had it for a few years. It had a lot of military terms in it, and the FBI linguists couldn't translate it.

So they borrowed three of us from the military, who had another army guy and a Navy female. The three of us wanted to do that translation. And honestly, it was one of the easiest jobs because the translation from Arabic to English was actually retranslating back what was translated from English to Arabic. Oh, that's interesting.

It was an actual army manual. It was an actual army manual. The security guard of, the private security guard of bin Laden used to be a supply clerk in the army. It was an Egyptian-American army. Yes. You worked at Special Forces.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He worked in Special Forces. And in order for him, he was building the manual for them. So he took a lot of U.S. Army manuals and translated into like how to do a Swiss seat, how to seize an airfield. Yeah. So a lot of these things that, how to do land nav.

So for me, it was like, this is going to be the easiest job ever. Yeah. And you're going to give me a certificate of appreciation from the director of the FBI. So I think it took me. less than three months to translated, but I sat there for three months. Were the other two people that were working with you, were they both native speakers or were they DLI trained? No, they were DLI trained.

I was the only native speaker. I was like, and I'm sure you guys know this, so in the Sagan branch, the Army Manual said, in order for you to have a TSSCI, you have to be a U.S. born. Believe it or not. You have to be a U.S. born or U.S. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah.

You cannot have foreign relatives. Oh, interesting. So a native has to have foreign relatives because we don't grow in trees. Sure. But there is a caveat there where they can do compelling needs. Like somebody has a military unit or an intel organization can sponsor you to do a compelling needs to say, okay, we're willing to give that guy a clearance because the risk. Yeah, operational requirements. Operational requirements.

So that's how I got my clearance. It took me four years to get my clearance. So I was one of very, very, very few needs. At that time, I was one of extremely few natives in the SIGN branch. And since you were in Signals Intelligence, I mean, were you learning the signals field as well? I mean, when I think of someone like yourself, I think like, oh, cryptolinguists, like that would be kind of the position for someone like you. So, yes, I was learning the signal stuff.

And honestly, knowing the language gave me an advantage. because you would spend time on sergeant's time on Thursday to practice your language. For me, I didn't need to do that. I would just try and I would get equipment and just play with the equipment. And then when I was in the unit that I read the book about, they had the equipment and if you break it, it's okay.

So I'm like, okay, let me play with this equipment to figure it out. So I had more time to spend on the equipment where other guys were spending time on learning the language. So I see it like the guys who were DLI trained and knowing the equipment, they work twice as hard as I did when it comes to language. And we had guys who were phenomenal linguists who were DLI trained. But a lot of that was their own personal effort that went into it.

Like if somebody came out of DLI and then NID didn't like pursue it on their own and didn't really kind of try, like DLI leaves you with sort of a good working knowledge, but a flat level also. Correct. DLI gives you a foundation, but the guys who I've seen, they were like phenomenal linguists. After DLI did immersion training, they went Middlebury for training, they went to DLI East for training, they went overseas. But we had guys who were extremely smart in the unit where like there's a guy, and I talked about him in the book. In the beginning I was like, there is no way he learned Arabic in four months.

In no fucking way. So I sat with him and we watched like soap opera and I'm like, what did they just say? And then he would tell me exactly what they said. And that was like Egyptian Arabic. I was like, let me change it to Lebanese Arabic. Yeah. So I would change it to Lebanese Arabic.

I was like, hey, just tell me what just happened. And he would say it. And I was like, that guy learned Arabic in four months. Yeah. So we had guys who were like gifted. Yeah. We had a guy learned Somali in about three, four months. And those guys used to humble the heck out of me.

And I'm like, man, I'm the dumbest guy in the room. So I got to work harder. So they really encouraged me. to work even harder in knowing the equipment or then I went and I've run some I took some Farsi classes I took some Swahili classes I was like an order for me to keep up with these guys I have to do something to learn something you cannot just be that hey man I grew up learning I grew up speaking Arabic and I've learned English in the streets of New York and look at me I'm smart and no so you really have to to work twice as hard this is a really sort of nerdy

question about this but for people who are listening and don't understand what we say a TSSCI. We're talking about a top secret clearance with sensitive compartmentalized information, which is, you know, it's a very high level of clearance. I thought you had to have the TSSC to go to Goodfellow. I thought the whole, doesn't the whole SIGNT, like, sort of umbrella require a TSSC?

Yeah, they give you an enthrum. Oh, okay. Okay. And I had this enthrum for a good three, four years. And then I was in the 82nd. I was in Fort Bragg when 9-11 happened. But I was supposed to go to A-Nock, so advanced non-commission officer school,

to B&E 7 after that. A knock or B-Nock. So I was going to Wachuka for training, and that was like a few months, I would say maybe two or three months after 9-11. When I'm there, so phase one is Common Core, there is no required clearance there. Then phase two, and I excelled in phase one,

and I was like, you know, I got like, you know, all of these, you know, exceeds the course standard, and I'm super happy, I'm like, I'm a guy wearing my maroon beret. I'm from the 80 second. That's right. And then first day in phase two,

I get pulled aside and the, our fact advisor, he pulled me like the NCO guy teaching us, he pulled me aside. He's like, I'm sure you heard what's going on, so, you know, we need to go talk to the security. I was like, honestly, I didn't hear anything, what's going on. So they pulled me aside because they suspended my interim client. Wow. Randomly after 9-11. Wow. And the reason is you fill out your SF 86 that's

your when you apply for your clearance. So my SF 86 that was a question it's one of those it was like an application like a paper not nothing online and it says one of the questions it says do you you hold like something like do you hold or have you ever held another passport so the question two questions in one and the answer can be yes to either so I answered yes because I did hold another passport in the past then the question right after that what's your passport number and that's your yes passport number so I put my US passport number and the security lady in Wachuka and forth Wachuka pulls me aside and she's like hey you have an

Egyptian passport you didn't tell us about. So me being an 82nd guy smart ass, I was like, well, you know something I don't know. I'm glad you know that I have an Egyptian passport because I don't have an Egyptian passport. She's like, well, here, and she showed me, and I was like, well, if you read the question, yeah, English is my fucking second language, but I can read. If you read the question, it's double, it can be either. Right. It's two questions in one. And she's like, well, you have to show me that U.S. passport that you're talking about with this number. So I was like, well, I didn't know Arizona's outside of the U.S. I needed to bring my passport to come into Arizona.

So obviously he's like, okay, you're smart-ass. You have 24 hours to show us your passport, or are you going to be kicked out of the court? So I was kicked out of the course. Oh, my God. So I went back to brag. The battalion sergeant major had a fit, because he's like he had an NCO got kicked out of school.

For nothing wrong, I've done. Yeah. I exceeded course standard that I was doing very well. So he's like, fuck this compelling neat thing. The clearance thing is taken forever. So they got some CI warrant officer from installation. So they did some extra interviews. The warrant officer, he did the interview, asked me all of these different questions.

He had like a three-hour interview with me. And he's like, I'm not supposed to tell you this, but I'm going to write the strongest recommendation for your clearance to be finalized. During that time, I had been interviewed, initial interview, to go to the unit. I had an application, and I sent the application right after 9-11. I was going to leave the army, honestly, before 9-11. 9-11 made me stay. So I ended up getting my clearance because I got kicked out in school, so that expedited my clearance.

Then I went back to FIS II, and I passed. Did you visit her office? I didn't. So I was like, that lady, most likely if she sees me, she's going to choke me. So you've made E7, you went through A-Nock, you already have in your mind now after 9-11 that you've heard of this other unit out there that you'd like to go and try out for. What was that process like of applying for it and then going to selection? So honestly, I've never heard of the unit.

I was, they were recruiting in Ford Bragg, and my first sergeant was like, hey, there is a good recruiting. There is a unit recruiting. I think I was an E-6 at that time. There is a unit recruiting, you should go. I had no idea. There is a unit exist. I was like, I like to tell people, like, I was really one of the dumbest guys in the army. I'm like, I have no idea what's going on in the army.

I've heard of Delta. I've heard of, like, you know, the Greenberry, the Rangers, obviously, everybody knows. But I'm like, what's this? So when they were recruiting, I had gotten married, my wife getting her master's from Faydville State University in Fort Bragg. We just bought a condo. I'm like, that's it. I made it.

I arrived. It's the life. It's the life. So when they came and they gave me a packet, I took the packet and I ignored it. 9-11 happened. And I got another call from the recruiter who I spoke about in the book. One of the smartest guys I've ever met in my life.

And he's like, hey, with everything happening, we're just checking what is your packet. I said, you know what? You'll have it, like within days. I went home that day filled out the entire application, which is a thick application. You write stuff and you write, you do hand writing stuff and obviously if English is your second language, you like, how the fuck. So I'm like, you know, I'm writing and I'm taking my time and my hands hurt. And then I fed back to the packet to him like a few days after.

Then I get invited to go to selection. I had no idea, like what's this about? And I think it's part of the selection process is, are you willing to take a leap of faith? Are you a guy who willing to do something without knowing what's in the end? What's at the end? And I think it's designed that way. It's like, are you willing to, if I tell you go out through that door, not knowing what's on the other side, are you willing to do it? I think that's what they were looking for, somebody who's just willing to take the risk.

So I get invited to selection. I go to selection and my wife was pregnant at that time. selection was brutal for me there are some guys in selection they were with me you can tell these guys like they got some intel like they know what's happening they know what's next exactly yeah yeah so they know what's happening next and my advice to anybody don't just go with it yeah just go with it yeah because when you go with it you really know they don't know what they expect when they tell you run run they tell you walk walk and they're not going to tell you how much or how long or how far.

You just do it. And don't quit. Then you'll make it. So the first few days in selection, again, I was doing, I came from a tactical, you know, it came from the 80 second. So in the 80 second, you do a lot of land navs. So I'm good with land navigation.

And the first few days in selection, I think the first two, three days, I think I did everything wrong. Like everything they gave me to do, which was a lot of land navigation, and I'm like, and they talk really fast, I don't understand what they're saying. And I was like, after two, three days,

I go and lay down on my bunk bed and I raise my legs in the air because they are sore. I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with me? Like, I'm just doing everything wrong. And then I thought, I was like, you know, every problem has a solution. I just need to calm down. I need to get my shit together.

And I put it in my mind, like, these guys, they asked me to come to selection for a reason. I must have something that they are, looking for. So I just need to calm the fuck down and just do what I need to do without expecting any, there is no feedback. Without expecting any feedback, just do your best. And then from day three, I think, things turned around for me. I'm like, okay, you know what? If they asked me to run, I'm going to fucking run. I'm going to give it all I have. And if I didn't, if I'm not the first guy, because I came, again, I came, I was like, when I was in, in Germany, I was

like soldier of the year. I was like in the 80 second I was a guy who runs around the formation and annoy the fuck out of everybody because you're the guy who can run. So I'm thinking I'm special. I mean you go there and everybody there is special. Right. And I'm not special. But you said at the same time if I recall right from reading your book that you know there were like special forces guys that didn't make it through this selection course. We had guys again because I think when you go to selection thinking you special. Yeah. It hits you hard when you realize you're not. Yeah. You're not. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, I'm having this hard time.

So let me just, let me do my best. So if there is an obstacle course, I'm going to do my best. Obstacle course in the military in general, in air assault school, in any, honestly, any obstacle course is not designed for short people. Yeah. And I'm like, what the fuck? So part of this obstacle course, I'm like, I'm going to, I'm coming down like an obstacle. And I'm like, I'm holding with one arm.

I'm like, am I going to reach? like what's there or I'm gonna fall on my ass and it's high and you're like this is gonna fucking hurt but again that's that leap of faith and then there is a that was like one of the cadres down there

I think I don't know they felt bad for me or yeah like whenever I had a guy that fucking short going through his help not so some guy goes and he's like hey and they they have like different names for you so he calls me that name

just move your fucking like to the right a bit just reach out to the left a bit and then just let go, man, let go. And I'm like, man, if I let go and I fall, it's going to hurt. Then finally again, I froze honestly for a bit, and then finally I let go. And I landed in another pipe.

But none of the obstacle course in the Army design for sure people. I think they need to revisit that shit. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Hey, Adam, before we kind of move into the unit, I would love to ask you about the 98 golf field in general. because, you know, and it's 35 now. 35 papa. 35 papa, just for like any viewers who might be thinking about because, you know,

it's rare to go to a tackle position in that job. Like a lot of people go to, you know, listening posts and, you know, sit in a nice area and whatnot. What was it like for you? Was the 82nd using Cigerners the way like a SOTA might? be used were they used do you have vehicles was it like land-based what was that kind of yeah what was it like to be so we had so the 80 second of that time was using we had jamming guys we have LLVI which is like the low-level voice intercept guys and we have the collector guys in a system called the turkey okay which is a truck the jamming guys it was a telkey whatever

that stands for but when you turn the jammer on It fucking fries your goddamn brain. I think that's why a lot of singing guys have daughters, no sons. I was in an LLVI team, which is basically you jump, supposedly you jump into, you jump with the scouts, and you carry your stuff and you go set up a high site and you do collection. That's in theory. It was the 82nd or I met fourth ID guys in Iraq.

I met a lot of the tactical units in Iraq. Honestly, none of them was doing that. So after that, when 9-11 happened, if he asked me what the 80-second Sagan guys were doing, we were PMCS in the motorpool. We just spend a lot of time in the motorpool to make sure all our home viz are lined up. They have the, there is no oil drips. It's not dripping oil, and you fucking inspect the vehicle every week. Just without you driving the vehicle at all, you just inspected every week.

Because that's how you keep soldiers busy. So tactical units are good to learn soldier in, but they were not. As a matter of fact, if you didn't have a final clearance, it was okay because you don't have access to anything. Access to the gear. Yeah. And even the gear you had were tactical gears,

so you were not really doing a lot of things. My recommendation to anybody who wanted to join that field, still go to a tactical unit first, because you're gonna learn how to soldier. You're gonna learn how to, where you're, your uniform, you're going to learn discipline. Yeah. Then go after that, if you go to a strategic asylum,

if you go to the NSA, I mean, you go to the NSA and you see, like, SIGN guys will never been in a regular army unit, and you look at them and you, like, dude, do you know how to put your uniform on? Yeah. But you still need to, that discipline of soldiering. I feel like the SADES really proved their worth,

like during the G-WAT. Do you feel that the big army just doesn't understand how to employ their sighingers? Yeah, to a certain extent, because again, you fall under, and I think they changed a lot now, but I'm talking about things like 20 years ago.

You are under like a combat brigade team. The brigade commander is like when you go tell him a SIGN team and they got to jump with your scouts and he's like, no, my scouts are going to do all of these things. Why do I need these Sagan guys?

Because he doesn't know. Yeah. They are not, again, it's a very, very small field in the army not a lot of people know things about it they know you're gonna put your headset on you're gonna listen to what we don't know but obviously Sagan is I mean these huge arguments between Sagan guys and human guys which one is more right important I think both of them are important obviously after 9-11 the whole thing changed right Sagan became to a lot of people became a lot more crucial than human again I I don't agree or disagree I think you can use both but tracking bad

guys through sigen became very efficient yeah during the Gwatt and that it became like you know that the game and I've seen human guys using sigen equipment the track guys it just became to the trend I guess yeah and when when you went to selection Did they tell you or were you able to request or did you know were you going to be continue to be a signals intelligence guy or were they going to try to bring you into the human intelligence side? They don't tell you in my first week. So past election, I think we lost about 65 to 70 percent. So I'm not going to get any exact numbers. Past election, they said, hey, your wife is pregnant. You can postpone your PCS. I said no. I don't know if the GWod going to wait for me.

I gotta go. My first week in the course, it was me, another two or three guys. They pulled us aside, and they talked about possibility of moving us. And for me, it was an no start because I'm like, I just PCS from Ford Bragg

to where I'm supposed to be. And you guys are going to move me again? And my wife has given birth like in a week or two. I'm not playing that. But they ended up, the sicken side trumped because we were singing guys. I think if we came from a different MOS,

it would have been more negotiable, but they don't tell you. And honestly, you don't know even, you don't know the structure of the organization until after you graduate the course. Right, right. So during the course, you're like, what am I doing?

Like, why am I here? Right. Again, they break the course into phases, and every phase is different, it's something different, and they're like, hey, next week, You're gonna just make sure you pack your bags for being in the jungle. Then you pack and you don't know where you go and you don't know what's going on.

And it's part it's designed that for you not knowing what would be there. And I think it plays with your psychology. A lot of us in the military when you take a PT test. They count. I mean, you're doing your PT test and you count one, two, three. Where in that community they don't. So you do push-ups and they don't tell you. they say start and you keep doing it and they stop and you're like okay how many did they do

did they pass so they trying to select people are not looking for feedback they're not looking for validation they know it's psychological yeah if you have the people who was looking for validation i think that that could become like risky with with the of uh of the training pipeline that you went through after selection what were your favorite and least favorite aspects of it it's a good question. So I'll talk about that, not classified stuff. I love fucking crashing cars. So you go and you like, you drive, you take this defensive driving course. And you crash cars and you drive like a maniac and I'm like, man, this is just like Egypt. It's like a traffic circle, right? It's like a traffic circle. Yeah. I'm like, I'm back home. So that, those, some of those,

like defensive driving course is really cool my least favorite was like the lack of fucking sleep because you are given there are some tasks you do as a team but there are a lot of tasks you do as a singleton and as a single thing you're like am I am I doing the right thing am I not doing the right thing do I need what time do I need to wake up what time do I need to sleep and then you are there are things that you're doing and in order for you to do it right I mean some guys would like you know just finish it quickly go to sleep by 10 wake up up at six next day they got their eight hours of sleep but we had guys who were like no I'm

gonna stay on it and is it did I do it right can I do it better and you keep doing it better and better and better and then you realize well you have only three hours to sleep then you sleep those three hours and you wake up and so they lack sleep and then my wife just had a we had we just had our first born baby and I'm like I'm not going home or I'm going home just to sleep for a couple hours so my wife needed that that family support and we didn't have anybody we didn't have anybody right we didn't have family in the US so I think after like three months after my first daughter was born my wife took her and went to Egypt till I finished the course yeah and then she came right before graduation two months after I graduated

again this was during 9-11 two months after graduation I went to my first deployment so my wife ended up traveling again not because she because we didn't have that family support structure. And if it's snowing and she had a baby and like literally she would call, you know, like other unit guys wives and she's like, I'm really, really sorry, but it's no and I cannot take my daughter out, my car stuff, can you get me diapers? And we did have other family members who were going buy diapers and bring it to the house. So the unit, I'm not going to say the unit as a structure did that because we didn't have that

family support group like regular army units do. but we had the guys went through the course with me and we became like a family. So she would call one of the wives to do that. But yeah, least favorite thing is lack sleep. And again, driving like crazy I think I love that shit.

So you get qualified, you get your certificate and all that good stuff, and you said you're out the door in two months? Yeah. Whereabouts are they sending you? So I went to the Middle East. I went to a golf country. We talked about it in the book briefly, but it's like you go to college and when you graduate college, you realize that you don't know shit.

I'm like, man, I just went training for like, you know, a year. And I was like, I thought I was on top of my game. And I deploy, and my first deployment, one of the guys who was the class before me, I'll call him Mike for this. But he used to be driving. I'm sitting next to him with the equipment and he's telling me so click on this icon

open this drop-down menu and I'm like is he fucking really like is he seeing what I'm seeing or he's just he had it in his memory like he knew the equipment inside out he spoke Arabic he looked like an Arab guy he was Mexican-American and he went through like

step by step and then I realized and all the stuff I've learned is nothing. I'm now learning. Then the guys you deploy with first, they teach you. And they are patient enough to like, okay, this English as a second language guy would take him step by step to teach him. But then I was helping them by like going to the

walking with them in the streets and speaking Arabic and everybody. Right. Right. And then I was like, hey man, just you don't have to talk. They're going to think who both were just Arab guy to go smoke some shisha together. Did you, you know, obviously Egyptian, you know, is very distinct. Did you practice it all,

or did you work on, you know, like different dialects in order to sort of try to fit in more in different places? Yeah, so in some of the deployments, so this first deployment was extremely funny. We had a gate guard in our house, and the guy was like,

if you didn't speak Arabic, I would have thought you are an Arab. But once you speak Arabic, I don't think you're an Arab, because your Arabic is broken. And I was like, that's the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life. But then you pick, you talk to the guards,

you talk to people in the streets, and then you start picking, there are very distinct words from one dialect to another. So in deployments, I did that. To the point, if I was there for like, you know, two, three months, after two, three months,

I could carry a conversation with somebody, they would think I'm local. Okay, so you're not, because you're not just talking about, like the colloquialisms, like Shlonic, but also like the the the Egyptian gh right which yep Egyptians they say gha other they say ja so you pick those things and then that the different words and then for example every

like the country like for some reason the word money it has different there is a different word for it in every so in Phaloos and in a lot of the Arab countries and then the country that we were in that was another country they said Zalat and Zalat means rock yeah and you hear it and I'm like why why are these people talking about rock and then you realize actually they use it for money yeah and then Masari in the Levantine dialect it's for Flos for money yeah so you start picking those things in different countries and then when you listen to them you'll be like huh that guy's from Lebanon or that guy's from Syria or that guy's from Yemen you pick you're picking those things. Yeah. What can you say about that first deployment that you went on as far as like

now you're essentially you're an army spy and you're working in counterterrorism mission? I mean, what did you think and feel about all that? So, you know, when, like after 9-11, I think anybody in the military deployed, they felt they are in the top of the world. I'm fighting this war. I'm catching bad guys. I'm going to go catch all these bad guys and make sure this doesn't happen again. And then you deploy in with one of the most unique units in the military that a lot of people don't know. And then the status I was deploying in, in that deployment, I was flying and there is an older

American lady sat next to me. And you got to love older American ladies because they love to talk. So that lady is asking me all of these questions and I'm like, is she testing me? Is she trying to figure out my cover? Is she, then you're like, okay, you know, nice lady. Let's just move on. But then you go, and as you're learning from other guys what to do, and then I broke equipment.

I was like, infamous for breaking equipment. So I'm running the equipment more than a lot of, like, we had guys obviously, they're like, you know, I'm going to just run the equipment from the house. I would take equipment out and run equipment and take it to the dust, take it to the heat. Stress test it. And honestly, it wasn't even intentionally tested it.

I was using it. So it would break. And I would call somebody back home in the States and say, hey, the equipment broke. And he's like, again, we had guys I used to think really, they looking at the manual, but it was in their head. Yeah. So I was like, again, I got up my game. I got to, these guys know the equipment inside out. And then you go and you're like, okay, now we're going after bad guys who did this.

So you really, really feel like proud and happy. and you're like, okay, I just finished this selection and course. We started too many people and we ended up very few, so you are on top of the world now. And you're like, then two or three deployments after they get hit upside your head to realize I'm not invisible. I need to come back to the ground. You can not be in the sky.

And then in 2003, of course, Iraq happens. Were you over in the country? I mean, looking for Saddam and his boy. So after that deployment, the first deployment, I came back. I came back, I wanted to say, a month after I came back, they were like, hey, we need guys to go to Iraq. And I was, send me. I'm going. So I was in one of the, so we had some guys in the invasion from the unit.

And then after that, I was the first deployment after that. It was me and four other people. And we were in the group looking for Saddam. We were attached to Delta. We stayed in Baghdad for a bit. I get to see the lions that Saddam's kids had in their house. I'm like, why do you fucking have lions in the house? And then obviously when Saddam's sons ran away,

they left the lions with no food. I'm like, now lions are hungry in the kids. So we stayed in one of those houses. And then my first day, in context, tree in Iraq I ended up me and another guy you know him Robbie he and I went out in a mission and I think in that mission we we hit maybe 10 to 15 houses and obviously we're like night missions you out in the evening and there was this older guy with us in that in the vehicle in the panther and I don't like man this old sergeant major

why is fucking out with us and I was like again I was like I think 30 years old and I'm like you know I'm in shape so we go out and then Robbie comes to me and he's like hey man you might want to be careful when you talk to this old guy he's a general I'm like why the fuck the general going out with us in a mission and like oh whatever man then we go back I think I think we hate like maybe 10 houses at that time then when we go back general Stan McCrystal stands in front of everybody takes his black vest off. He was the one of startup that fine.

He was about to be the J-Soc commander. And he talks to everywhere. I'm like, probably you're right. The guy's a general. And I was talking to him like, he's my buddy. But then the Delta guys, honestly, were awesome. After four or five missions with them, they built that trust. And they're like, hey, man, we're firing out in the bag.

Do you want to come with us and fire some rounds downrange? So I was there for about three months I was in Baghdad for a bit Then we went to Crit From listening to a lot of the chatters and from being involved in Interrogations I was like Saddam got to be into Crit He can't be anywhere else Right right there

Then me and another guy went to Crit Then Robbie and another person Went to Mosul And we had an analyst I think he went to Mosul with us there to get together because he didn't come with us. And then we ended up into CRET. I think I came back a week or two weeks before the calls

said, I was like, what the fuck? I couldn't say it. So you were operating some of the technology to try to find him and the Delta guys were actioning the targets that you were able to find? We were doing, so we were doing a lot of different things, honestly, so we were doing technology, we were doing some interrogations.

We had, in the task force, we had other human intelligence attached to us whether OGA or DIA I mean we had and everybody was coming with hey there is a source said Saddam goes to this house every Friday morning to sit with this family and we would go hit the house we would go stage overnight somewhere to hit the house at three o'clock in the morning and then Saddam was nothing but it was singing intelligence human intelligence it was all kind of was interrogations everything he can think of all the resources were going against that trying to find the guy

And then me and another guy were going out, so it was four of us, four operators and one analyst. The four operators, me and another guy who was half Lebanese, half Irish American, he and I used to go out a lot with the Delta. So during the day, we would run our equipment, do everything in the evening, we would go out with them with the Delta guys and hits. The other guy was fast open on top of some houses with them. I was going out with them in different locations, but we were doing both. The technical stuff and just going out and hits as well. I know this is, you know, so we've been in these wars for about two years, two and a half years now. For you guys, is the technology changing quite a bit?

Because I know there were significant changes over time, but are you guys already starting to see that where, where these contractors people where they're like oh like are you sending requirements back like we need

something that does this or whatever absolutely we were actually tracking and it was really interesting because we were seeing as technology changes we had guys

who were sitting back home like hey man now these guys were using push to talk I think they're going to use cell phones but Iraq didn't have cell phones at the time

so they had high power cordless phones but these cordonist phones with like a big antenna can go like 100k a hundred kilometers then they were like okay they built in the gSM network in iraq so eventually these guys will use that so there were like engineers there were guys in the government whether military or non-military they were thinking ahead yeah which i think one of the best things that 9-11 was a horrible thing but it brought some good things too because it made us get advanced with technology yeah made us think ahead it made us predict

We talked about earlier, hey, do you guys need Arabic? No, we don't need Arabic. Yeah, right. Nobody was predicting ahead. Right. 9-11 made people think, okay, the bad guys, what are they going to use next? Let's be ahead of them. And I think we were ahead of them for a bit.

Yeah. Unfortunately, I think these guys start catching on. Yeah. And then they were like, okay, well, we get caught through this technology. Let's go back to the old technology. Yeah. People can find us through smartphones because smartphones, back then there was no smartphones, but now I'm assuming

there are guys who are like, I'm going to use this old Nokia. Right. 111 or 1011 phone that I bought for $10 that doesn't have emails, doesn't have GPS, doesn't have these, doesn't have. So it goes back and forth. Yeah. But yeah, we were trying to learn. It was really interesting, like watching both Iraq and Afghanistan,

and the enemy adapt to American techniques. And, you know, sometimes they'd get it right. You know, they'd be like, because if they didn't understand, like, ISR platforms, they might say, oh, well, we're getting bombed because we're wearing metal. They can sense the metal. But then with, like, with phones, you know,

when they start plugging charms in and things like that, it's, you know, it's really fascinating, just how quickly some of the things they picked up on. Yeah, absolutely. The other thing to you, it's, for some reason, during that at that time, and people might go and say, well, you're talking about these things now. Well, back then, nobody knew, like, exactly how we were doing. But you had the TTPs, but you had, like, you know, congressmen or people like in TV or whatever going and saying, well, this is how we found that guy. Let me tell you exactly, step by step.

How we found the guy. And then all of a sudden, these calms will drop. Yeah. And they'd be like, who the fuck just talking? Then we start seeing guys mixing their phones. Bad guys just mixing phones. In terrorist training camps, I think we didn't have any, I think they used to have like this box, everybody drops his phone going in, they go do the training, they come up, everybody grabs the phone and just move on. So you could not find, okay, you know, like now I used to listen to Jack on this number. that doesn't sound like yeah who's this guy who's this guy and then that just keeps you

going confused and then you realize after two three weeks oh it's dave and then two days after it's not dave yeah oh it's adam uh so it was like who's gonna be smarter than who yeah uh so the combination between human that's why i believe like we need all the ends yeah having human guys having singing guys so you had human guys on the ground they say you know what this guy I've got swapped phones and this is how do you do it. Yeah. And then you start realizing, okay, well, if I have the 10 phones, then I can do this and I can sift through it and I can do process of elimination.

And then without giving away any TTPs, but you might change your phone, but your entire family is not going to change their phone. Right, right. And I'll find you somewhere else. I'll find you through your girlfriend. Yeah. Yeah, they got. savvy that was interesting I remember one guy would you know high value target would like

anytime he wanted to make a call he'd get on a like his motorcycle drive you know ride someplace standing from the same compound or around the same compound make his calls so so from a significant perspective that guy losing that that guy losing that compound you know you know what what's really dangerous is when we and I used to see this a lot when we think was smarter than everybody else yeah when you think he are the smartest guy in the room you are the dumbest guy in the room. Yeah. So we used to think these guys are not sophisticated, they're not smart.

Then, I mean, we have, these guys were like in their emails, they used to not send emails. They just put the email in the draft box. And guess what? We have general officers after that when they have mistress. They do in that. So they learned, actually, our own guy has learned from the bad guys. How to, and this is public record.

But they were always looking at because these guys are not dumb. They are like, okay, so-and-so just got killed. Let's do an AAR. And maybe they don't call it AAR, they call it something else. But they go through the same thing and process. And they're like, you know what? They found Jack because Jack knows Dave and Dave lives in this area and he wants, let's change. And they'll change.

And so we have to be step ahead. And the only way we can be step ahead if we have the, the cooperation and the collaboration of the different ends. Unfortunately, I feel we were on a honeymoon after 9-11, where the military and the CIA and the FBI and the Treasury, everybody worked well together. And we were all looking out for each other. And if I saw you downrange,

I didn't care what patch you have in your shoulder. I didn't care if you are green, black, or white. I didn't care about anything. I think towards the end of my career, I start seeing back of, man, I'm CIA and you're not, so fuck you. The Fifton's building back up. So everybody went back to, hey, I'm better than you. No, I'm better than you.

No, I'm going to keep this. My ops are more secret than your own. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. We're not going to share information. You talked about this in your book where people are not communicating well enough. Which, by the way, I do commend you for your book and how you're trying to show people how to learn from.

Again, we did this, we did it this way, we can learn that, how to do it differently. So all of these things is like, I think hopefully we don't go through another big event to bring us back together. I think we are, we should reconsider how we do in business and just start sharing more information. You know, on that note, in addition to the technological piece, I'd really like to hear you talk a little bit about the people because you write about that in your book, a bit about the piece. a bit about the people in this unit, the type of people who end up there, what it's like working with some of these guys where, I mean, they sound like very colorful characters, actually. So, yes. Honestly, as you guys know this, in the Special Operation Command or in the military in general,

your most important asset and I mean it are the people. You could have the best equipment on the planet. You can have the best weapons on the planet if you don't have the right people. and sadly I feel there are some like higher commander they say this but they don't really believe it but they say they keep saying it it briefs well it briefs extremely well

and I'm like well if he's saying it maybe you should behave differently maybe you should give more having lower enlisted guys a percentage of lower enlisted guys on food stamps is extremely unacceptable you shouldn't have guys fighting for you worrying about how they're going to feed

their family. But to go to the unit. So for some reason, I think the way how they do the selection process and I give the psych, the psychologist, a lot of credit. Because I think the psychological profiling they do to bring guys in, somehow it brings just the right guys to that environment. And I'm not sure what, I'm not sure what psychological profile they do that, but we had guys that, like I said, when I went through the course. So in the first, in the beginning, of the course, they have guys go and they, I think at the beginning of, the end of the first week. So they give you a week to do a PowerPoint presentation as an intro about yourself. And again, I'm like, you know, I'm a guy who was born in Egypt, came to the US, not speaking

English, $500 borrowed, I got to be a fucking rock star. Then you go and you sit and you go through, and I think I was like towards the end of the briefings. And the first guy goes there, and he's like, I was the first guy that got his picture on a milk carton because he was kidnapped. Holy shit. Because his father kidnapped him. And took him out of country, took him to the Middle East. And his mom was looking for him. So his mom thought, how do I find him?

And she got this idea. And she's like, I'm going to put his name and picture in a milk carton. So he goes there and he say this, and he grew up in the Middle East. And his grandmother raised him. and then he went to live in Libya for a bit. And he sat there and I was like, I'm nobody. And then second guy goes, and he's like, I was the mayor of my town for one day during a revolution.

He came from the eastern block. And I'm like, okay. Then another guy goes, and he's like, oh, I grew up in South America. This is a white guy. He's like, I grew up in South America. I speak Portuguese, Spanish, French, and I'm from Alaska, and I'm going to do like, you know, I go like, he does this snow fishing, and I'm like, dude, I'm going to go speak after all of these guys.

Then a girl goes and she's like, I went to West Point and I'm a world-class swimmer, and I can swim and run better than all of you guys. I'm smarter than all of you. And I'm like, so you see those things. And then we have a guy, he goes and he's like, I lost my eye in training. I have one eye, and they didn't kick me out of the army because I fought the army. the army wanted to kick him out to medically board him

and he fights Ranger qualified going through the course did very well in selection with one eye and he like oh Adam and you complain about you being fucking short so you have nothing on those guys so and then

these guys like I said they humble the fuck out of males and females we have one she went like cross-country skiing in Europe and she rode her bike all over Europe and she's a warrant officer. So you look at the group of people you are with and you're like, okay, I really need to work harder. So it encourages you to work harder. And then when you deploy with these guys,

you realize, okay, this guy speaks five languages. Adam, your native Arabic speaker, good for you. And you can barely speak English. Great. So really working with them and deploying with them and then you have the guys who can build computers in their own they sit in their basement and and then a lot of people think well he's just a nerd I'm like yeah that nerd runs his two miles in 11 plus minutes

right that nerd can care can weight lift more than you and that nerd looks like a really really nice cool guy but he can punch the fuck out of you and kill you or the guy I said in the book he looked like Elton John he went to Ranger school when he was 40 and he passed Rangers school I'm like so you see all of these things and you're like okay, well, this unit is made out of very unique characters, and I was lucky, I'm fortunate to be one of those, hopefully unique characters. Do you find, because it's like, these sound like very, like, intelligent and driven, motivated people, like, do you find that they have these sort of, like,

eccentric hobbies and things like this that they... Yes. Yeah, like, the guy with the one eye, for example, he, when we, during the course, they'll tell you, like, you know, I don't want to get into... any like sources and methods but let's say they tell you like build do a concealment device something to conceal something in sure so I'll go buy a box of chocolate and I'll unseal it and put things in he will build the table and he'll fucking and he has all the carpet and stuff and he'll build the table and he'll have the table delivered to your house and he'll send you like step by

step how to get your things out of the table and I'm like that guy just built a fucking Like I said, you have guys who are like, hey, man, I'm just going to take the Appalachian trail all the way for like a month. And you're like, that guy just walked for a month. Yeah. And what do I have on these guys? So those are the guys, those are the hobbies. And you're like, hey, Adam, what do you do? I like to read.

I'm like, okay, good for you. But yeah, yeah, but they all had. And honestly, those things. help in the mission and those are the things that they look at you and look for for selection yeah so if you're gonna deploy and you're gonna and you're saying hey you're a carpenter you're gonna be able to do carpenter shit yeah for me if I'm going and I'm saying like I can't go and say hey guys I'm a private security guy okay mr. 5125 pound you can't be a private security guy but I can be a driver

yeah I can be a guy who blends in I'm very comfortable with going to any environment I can go to like during training I went to areas where this is after 9-11 and as an Arab looking guy you go into a hotel telling that lady working in the hotel I need the layout of the hotel and I need every exit I need every camera I need everything because I'm casing the hotel and it takes a talent and it takes that very friendly comfortable environment to make her feel comfortable to give you the information and the lady did she gave me actually everything I asked about speaking of that I mean the another thing around this time frame I want to ask

you I we're probably shooting forward a couple years from Iraq and Saddam but being deployed to the Levant during that during the 2000s what can you tell us about that so that was after after Iraq right so one of the things to during Iraq what I talked about to in the book is Iraq was the cool things for the bad guys the cool place for the bad guys to go so when we were in Iraq we started noticing

like I started I was helping with a lot of interrogations start seeing people from Morocco coming all the way from Morocco coming all the way from Mali through North Africa all the way to Somalia crossing to Yemen from Yemen to Saudi

making it all the way to Iraq then we start seeing a lot of this is during the beginning of what's known now as ISIS. Back then it used to be on Nusra Front. This is where I started. We started seeing all of these characters coming from everywhere, coming from Chashnia.

Yep. Coming from Bosnia. And he's like, I was in Bosnia a few years before, and I used to call it, you know, those are Muslim lights. They don't know, they think Ramadan is three months. They didn't know anything about anything. And all of a sudden they're going to fight. Right.

So they got, they got turned into extremists because of all of these. Then we start seeing, and we were like, how are these people coming to Iraq? They're coming from Africa to where, to here. Then we started deploying people. Like McChrystal said, it takes a network to catch a network or to defeat a network.

So we started deploying people to West Africa, to East Africa, to the Levant. Then I was one of the first guys from my school. water to deploy, I was the first one, to deploy to the Levant. And at that time, I go there and the chief of station, my first day there, he's like, initially, so to go back, the unit said, hey man, the agency wanted some of you guys, so I'm going thinking, you know, the agency asked for me, or they asked for us, and they sent me, I'm going there to a friendly environment. So I go there, In my second day, the chief gets me and this other guy from the other side of our unit.

And he's like, hey man, I've never asked for you. I don't need you here. I have my own people. You have a month to prove why you should be here or I'm sending you home. So I'm like, holy shit. That's wild. I just got a warning. If I don't prove myself within a month, I'm going to go back to my unit with my tail between my leg and saying, hey guys,

I got fucking kicked out of the country. Yeah. But like I said, I went thinking, this is a friend of the run. These guys are they want me. Yeah. So I was like, I gotta fucking work my ass off. So I start,

this was, by the way, it was about seven, eight months after I was shot. So here I am, I'm still recovering from a gunshot wound. They sending me there to, like, hey, this is a good place for you to recover. it's a decent friendly environment and the agency will be nice to you.

When I go there and it's not. And then this is one of the extremely high threat CI places where you have surveillance left and right. You have surveillance most likely from the day arrived. I walked to the embassy the first day with my diplomatic passport and the Marine Guard is like, did you find this in the street? Because I looked like a local. And I'm like, this is not a friendly place, man. So nothing was going my way.

So I was like, well, I got to really work hard. I start developing, like a target, start developing a target list, start doing things in the embassy, outside of the embassy. After a month, when we're supposed to go back to the chief to brief him, I go me and this other guy from the organization, but from the other side. And the other guy's like, hey, man,

we got only 30 minutes with the chief. you go first because it's going to take you five minutes, then I'll breathe. I said, right? So I go. So I started briefing the guy, and my five minutes became 25 minutes. So he gets only five minutes, the other guy. After I finished the 25 minutes, the reason it was 25 minutes, because the chief kept asking, how did you get this, how did you get that, who else is in the network, how can we defeat this,

how can we prosecute that, how did you really do this? And I was like, well, actually, I went in the street and I pretend like I'm a travel agency. Literally, I was like, hey, man, I work for a travel agency from Egypt and I need to get to this location. One of the places we were looking for, what we're looking for guys coming through, coming through that country, going to Iraq. And these guys were using very specific travel agencies in that country. And literally, I would go in the street and say, hey, man, I'm looking for this. Literally, I was like asked. because again

you're asking the kebab guy I'm asking the kebab guy or I take a taxi I'm like hey can you take me to this location because again I'm not I blended in I looked like a native I mean I am a native and I looked like

a guy who's local so after the month when I showed the chief all of these things and he's like what else can you do because he did have requirements he could not have anybody doing it so we finish and he sends a cable

he's like I need two of this guy not one So they moved that, they actually ended up adding one more guy from my squadron. Then a month after, I'm walking to the embassy in the morning. I lived really near there. So the door I walked through was like a door for people and there is another gate for vehicles. So I walked in, I worked in the third floor. By the time I made it to the third floor, I hear an explosion.

So we had a civilian engineer in the office. working in the guy goes down in his knees pulled out his rosary and he started praying he was please god make this a drill the guy did what he knew what to do and I was like hey dude this is not fucking drill this is an explosion for real and then we hear gunfire and where I'm at there is a vault so we initially your training kicks in so we're like okay it's about four or five of us here close the vault call and call home say hey We might be going through a destruction plan. We're going to disrupt everything.

It goes to your mind. The Nairobi, the Kenya, Tanzania, embassy bombings. It goes to your mind, the Tehran embassy, people being taken hostages. All of these things goes to your mind. And I'm there as a civilian. But I had an M4. We had our stuff shipped. There was another unit guy there with me.

And I'm like, okay, if I open this vault door and walk out. and there is a Marine running, he's going to see an Arab guy. That's the guy most likely he asked him, do you find his passport in the street? He's going to find an Arab-looking guy with an M-4. So I might get shot. And scenario two, I opened that door, and the bad guys are there because they took over the Marines,

and I'm going to get shot. So I'm like, so I'm the enemy of both sides. I'm like, fuck. So finally, I'm like, you know what? I have no choice. I got to open that door. and I got to go downstairs. So I go downstairs to the defense

at the chair's office. I find somebody talking. He's under... What they tell you is like, there is an explosion, you go under the table. So everybody did what they're supposed to do. And then I hear somebody else talking.

And I'm like, man, I'm not fucking gonna get shot again. Like in my mind, that's what I'm saying. So I hear somebody saying, did you get shot before? And somebody about to have a conversation with me, I'm like,

This is not the time of our conversation. So I found the other unit guy who got to the rooftop. The Marine who asked me like two months before, did you find that passport in the street? He's sitting there. Marines are very well disciplined, as you guys knew. He has his weapon. And he comes.

Me and the other guy are there on the rooftop as well. A couple of agents, you guys came with us. And the Marine looks at us. And he sees that we have really cool weapons with all that bells and whistle. and he's like, is either one of you guys outrank me? So the other guy outranked both of us. The other guy was a master sergeant.

I was in E7 at that time. So the other guy, who's the coolest guy in there. He was really cool, calm, green beret guy, unit guy. And he's like, a master sergeant, so and so. I got you. The Marine just calms down. And the Marine is like, I see guys across the street with weapons, should I shoot? And we're like, no, man.

Those are the guards are shooting at the bad guy. So that firefight goes back and forth. The master sergeant finds a grenade unexplored. He disarmed it. He threw it at the or so. I think the RSO about shedding his fucking pants because he threw a grenade. So the whole thing lasted for about, I want to say like an hour. At the end, I put a lot more details about that in the book.

But at the end, we hear this huge explosion. So the car the bad guys were in that they were supposed actually to enter the attack the embassy with they had propane tanks they were supposed to blow up the embassy they didn't and they didn't because they found an old the guy was driving that truck small truck found an old lady crossing the street he didn't want to hit her he avoided her hit the pillar rather than the door and then that fire part went back and forth the local the local guards from the street yeah they saved us although hostile country not friendly at all

but they did their job to protect the diplomatic mission. I mean, a couple questions. I mean, I guess, you know, first off, were you guys able to disrupt some of the terrorist rat lines that you were looking to interdict or identify in the country? And is that why the embassy got attacked? Was it because of that targeting? So we were able to do, disrupt a lot of those.

We were able to get guys taken out. We had guys get taken out in country. we had guys get taken out as soon as they went to Iraq but I don't think it was related I think it just these guys I mean the embassy was in a very vulnerable location excuse me they were in a very vulnerable location and I think it was more an attack against the local government not us so they were trying to show the local government is weak oh I got you so and then it was an easy target so I think that that was the reason I mean nobody really knew exactly what was

but you gotta realize during that time when the Iraq war was going on we had enemies all over the Middle East I mean everybody was like blaming us because I know some people agree or disagree a lot of

a lot of people like me in the military I don't think the Iraq war was justifiable I think this was a bullshit thing happened and there was no weapons of mass destruction there was no terrorists there we did everything possible like you gotta find any terrorist affiliation in Iraq it was none yeah after that when the regime collapsed it drew them in yeah it drew the man because it became the

wild wild west and they like that drew the man the other question i wanted to ask you about this the particular deployment that i think would be interesting and not to spark the big debate about what is tactical and what is strategic but the CIA normally gather strategic intelligence the army is oftentimes more interested in tactical intelligence although there's some strategic missions there too. I just wanted to ask about your experience working out of the embassy with them and like two kind of like two different mentalities from an army guide to an agency officer. So I think it was very, very personality driven.

So for example, in that mission that I was just talking about in the Levant, the agency guys were super cool. We were all, we felt like a family because we were all in the same shaleigh together. Right, right. We got each other backs. Hey, you had surveillance today, so if you don't tell me about it, the guy who surveilled you today might surveil me tomorrow. So we would share a lot of information.

Look at East Africa. East Africa, we were going to Somalia together. That was like a Black Hawk team, called the Black Hawk Team. So we were going to Somalia together. Again, personality driving. We had a guy who was a Black Hawk team leader, who was a former Marine. he's like I know better than all of you guys so fuck all of you guys

you're gonna do what I tell you to do so he would grab his phone and openly call internationally talk about things like him and you shouldn't be talking about this then fast forward there was another guy after him who was I think a high school

used to be a high school teacher in New York who came and became the team leader really calm really smart again extremely personality But there is, that was like still, there was some competition there. Sure. That was like, I'm J-Soc, your CIA, or he's like, I'm CIA, screw you. So it was, and for us, we were able to operate under Title 50 and Title 20.

We're able to operate on the boat. So one of them is like, you know, you operate in clandestinely. So for the unit, Title 10. Title 10. Yeah. So Title 10 and Title 50. so we were able to operate on the bullet. Yeah, it's an interesting thing that your unit is able to conduct covert operations,

clandestine operations, or conventional military operations as well. So it depends under which title you were in and who's on top, is it CIA or us, and how we're going to do this together. But there was some deployments where we worked extremely well together. Some other deployments where just we never, again, I might be biased, but we never hated or disliked them or dislike working with them. them but it was like when you go in a mission and you come back and the CIA guy changed the door combo and you're like dude I thought what one team that's super passive aggressive exactly

and you like did you ever was there ever any correlation for you between the age of like the person running the the agencies operation like we're we're younger if there was a younger guy there was he more or less you know easier or harder to work with yeah I think that yeah no no again personality driven yeah there was like some younger guys were really really easy going nice to work with you would think older guys would be more mature and there'll be like okay we mission focused but then you have older guys who are like you know who's going to get credit for this right in one of the deployments and one of the missions we had a guy who pretended to be sick he stayed in the hotel room he all he did is just he fucking eight pd

pizza all night next day and he's like I'm sick and next day he wrote a cable and I was like dude you either have we detained the guy that night me and another guy went out with the locals we got the guy I mean we did the whole thing

he just stayed in the hotel room but he wrote the best cable ever and I was like that guy man I was like dude you either have a very wild imagination or you did something I didn't see but we were not honestly interested in taking credit yeah we were like you know want to take credit for it, so be it. So 90% of the military guys I worked with, like on our

field and you guys know it and being in the same category of, dude, I just want to get the mission done. Yeah. Who takes credit for it? I don't care. Now, did most of the agency people that you work with, did they have a military background or did some of it, did it vary quite a bit? It varied. And the guys that was hard to work with were the guys who, uh, never had military background. There was a guy, one of them, again, Warenna, in a very, very rough country. And he and I go and I're doing a lot of things together.

And he and I, like, discussing something. And he's like, you know, I think, and I want to just phrase it how he said it. Because he's like, he's a smart guy. And he's like, I never been wrong. but I was wrong only once and that one time I was mistaken and as soon as he told me that I was driving

I pulled over on the side of the road I said dude say this one more time I'm gonna fucking kick you out of the car yeah yeah if we're both on patrol in Vietnam only one of us is making it to the LZ right and then I told him when you look who looks local me not you you are a 6-4 6-3

white guy in a country the tallest guy most likely is my height. Yeah. So just say this one more time. Yeah. But again, and then you realize, and the guy was like, you know, he's like, dude, I came from a culture where you have to show that.

Right. And you have to show that how good you are. And I was like, dude, but we hear together that we might die together or live together. Yeah. So you cannot tell me that you're never been wrong. Because when I tell you, we're going to make a left here, we're making the left here.

Yeah. But again, that guy was never in the military. So I've seen that. And I've seen the guys who are like, who got your back 100%. There was a guy with me in Iraq, and he's like, a brown branch guy, older guy. And honestly, I was like, he came out with me a few times. He did a lot of things. And when you see the guy, you're like, man, that guy with the experience he had, with the knowledge he had,

I should be saluting him every time I see him. But he was like, hey, brother, what do you need? So you have, it's personality driven. Big next. The other thing I don't want to gloss over and miss is, as you mentioned, there's this incident where you get shot. What happened there? Where were you and what happened? So I was in Africa.

And we were doing a lot of things in Somalia, in and out of Somalia. And the exact reason why I got shot, honestly, nobody will ever know. When we put things together, again, we have an analytical mind. So a few days, a week before, we were in Somalia, and there was an ambush set up for us. We got really lucky that we were supposed to go land and get from point A to point B. They set up the ambush in the way. Well, when we landed, again, this is 100% luck, that we had some equipment in the end. airfield where we were landing, that we haven't serviced for a while.

And I said, guys, I think we should service it. And I want to stay here to service the equipment, me and another guy. So the rest of the team said, no, we're not going to leave you. We'll just stay with you. Way out of the plan. And this is something just happened in the last minute. So we stayed. So the al-Shabaab guys who were ambushed us, they were like, they expect us.

They land and they move. well we didn't move and we stayed for about an hour messing with the equipment they thought we're not going to point B so they started to come in

our way so the local guys we were dealing with they had checkpoints the al-Shab guys start running over the checkpoints killing a couple of guys guys getting radios they called the guys we were with hey man they're attacking you

you need to leave the pilot that we had at that time, local pilot from the area. Again, this is not a military aircraft, this is a local. So the pilot, he understood, he understands Somali. Very calm, usually, but all of a sudden, he's no longer calm.

He's like, we need to leave now. And I've never seen that guy that way. And I'm like, if he's saying we need to leave now, we need to leave now. It was six of us, six U.S. guys, and the pilot. So we ran to the aircraft, We grabbing our equipment, a commo guy from the agency, grabbing his equipment, dropping shit.

Case officer wearing fucking sandals for some reason, because he thought he was going on vacation in Somalia. So we made it to there, and we took our equipment with us. When we took our equipment with us, we start getting through the intercept. And basically these guys were, hey, six white pigs just landed, ambushed, do this, do that. A voice recognition of some of these guys. One of them was Somali-American. Interesting. So the immigrant communities here are a lot smaller than a lot of people think.

People know each other. I know your cousin, your cousin knows his wife, and his wife knows my sister. So four or five days after, one of the linguists that we have, who is Somali American, clear, TSSI guy, calls me, So that happened, the ambush happened on a Saturday. Or the attempt of an ambush happened on a Saturday. Tuesday evening, I get a call from my linguist. I was the team leader at that time.

And he's like, I need to come to your house now immediately. This is Tuesday night. I'm like, it's 9 o'clock night. And I was like, can it wait until tomorrow? And he's like, nope, I have to come now. So he comes. And apparently, the wife of the Somali American was involved in the attack, somehow I think I don't like if his bank account got for something happened to him

his wife knows the sister of the linguist the wife is in the country we are in she calls the linguist she meets him they have dinner she gives him a phone numbers like my husband would like to talk to the CIA the guy knows we don't work for the CIA the guy freaks out he leaves her come straight to my house so that's Tuesday uh Thursday we go out in a mission in the morning, we come back, and then I leave the house later that day, I come back, there are three guys by the door of my house, one of them, shall be here. Again, people can say, well, it was a robber. Nah. Possible. And then people can go and say, well, when you put all of these elements together, there is possibly an ambush, because you were getting ambushed literally a week before.

As a matter of fact, not even a week. Five days. before so Saturday Tuesday Thursday Thursday so Thursday night I get shot and again I get out of my car if a guy robbing you he's not gonna shoot you right away because he doesn't want to shoot you right right just want to take your money yeah I'm driving a very expensive car for that country didn't try to take the car didn't try to take my money too didn't take my watch I took my phone and took some IDs I had in my pocket but they didn't well first off obviously they didn't give you the coup de grace and they did they try to

kidnap you and no nothing that's like very very weird i get out of the car literally i get i'm we live in a compound it's about our house is about 50 meter away from the gate so even if the guy came back came after me to the gate he would have he would have not made it with me i mean i'm driving he's walking or running yeah yeah he would have not made it with me. No, he was there. And then so I saw a gun in his hand and he squeezed the trigger. I was like, okay, I didn't feel it.

So I was like he missed. It's a ricochet. I felt like, you know, a very tiny pinch. So I was like, he missed. So we're getting a fist fight. Trying to take the gun. He's trying to get off me. I'm trying to choke him. He's trying to... So we're getting to this for a few minutes. then one guy comes and then punch me with the bottom of his pistol so the other guy had a gun as well

so I get punched in the chin and I'm like fuck that hurts then finally they get the guy off my hands they tick off I knock in the door well I put my hand in my stomach and I feel like you know warm liquid yeah and it's dark and I'm like I'm like fuck I got shot So I'm knocking the door, get my buddy to open the door. It was me and another guy living in the same house. I was like, hey, man, open the door, I got shot. And he heard all of this shabang going on outside. And he's like, I didn't know what was going on, so I wasn't going to open the door.

And I don't blame him. Yeah. I mean, I'm like, okay, you hear all of this. Yeah, it's a local thing. You don't know what's going on, and it's happening right in front of your door. Yeah. Then I was like, okay, call the embassy. Let's get fingers in the right process.

think, and you said this, you're like, I'm not going to die. So in my mind, I'm like, I can't fucking die. Yeah. My dad passed away like less than a year ago. I just can't die. Yeah. My wife is young. I have a newborn. She's like less than two years old. So I don't know what, I think your training takes over, things take over, you don't know what's going on. I'm like, let's call the embassy, we call the embassy, we call post one, send an ambulance, etc. Africa, no ambulance. I sit and I sit and I sit and I sit and then I sit down and I think I pass out. But me thinking I didn't pass out. My buddy is like, hey man, you keep passing out. So I get a towel, stop the bleeding. Then finally, like I think I wake up and I'm like, where's the fucking

ambulance? He's no ambulance. So I stand up. I'm like, I can't because every time I sit down, I feel like I'm passing out. So by then, the compound we're living in, the guards are there, there is like, you know, a lot of people around, what's going on. So I look at one of the guards, I mean, do you have a car?

And he's like, yes. I'm like, you take him to the hospital. My buddy who's like, most like I still have some blood from me on his shirt. He's like, man, I get a change. I can't go to the hospital. And again, he's not thinking. And I want to, like, now you think about it.

I was like, dude, you go to the fucking hospital. You're going to the hospital, the guy who's shot in the guns. Exactly. I'm like, you're not going out in a date. So I jump in this truck, and the guard driving me, it's a pickup truck. I'm in the front, I'm sitting next to him. And I think the guy hit, like, every pothole in the city.

And then you start feeling it. Start feeling like your guts moving. Your guts are shaking. And you're like, okay. I'm like, it's Africa. I can't die. So you make it to the hospital, and then I'm trying to. trying to open the door and I can't and I tell the guard I'm like I tell that the guy was

driving I'm gonna unlock the door and it's unlocked but I think I lost enough blood yeah and I lost your your losing strength yeah and I can't open the door yeah finally the guy comes out and he opens it he opens I get out by then they have this so I don't know what they call it it's like bed with the wheels the gurney the grinning and it's very high and I'm like dude bring it down and it's broken it's not an obstacle course yeah exactly it's not made for short people yeah yeah so I'm like dude bring it down and he's like it's broken I'm like how the fuck I'm gonna get on it so I step on the side of the truck and I jump and again you feel like your gut's just coming out

long story short we go inside x-ray machine is broken so you have to sit up so I ask in the nurse I'm like do you see an exit one that's an in the emergency room now and she's like yes I'm like okay if you draw a lot between the entry one and the exit one. What do you think it hit? She's like, you're kidding. I'm like, oh, thank God, I have two of those. I mean, literally, I was like, but you're thinking at that time,

you think you're going to a hospital here in the US, so they ask you, what's your name, what's your social security? Yeah. So I'm thinking of all of these things. So what's my social security number? Luckily they didn't ask, but I remember, I mean, I memorized all these things. Again, it's not me. Right, right.

Right. Right. And then, so I tell that they, I'm like, hey guys, don't put me in sleep. hey guys don't put me asleep I want to know what to go on because I didn't trust anyway I had trust issues yeah like so finally that my buddy comes the embassy send up the embassy doctor comes the embassy doctor had another doctor with him who's Pakistani Indian British educated but not local to the country who are in but he's one of those guys that you look at him and you feel calm he just he exhibited this sort of like confidence.

Yeah. This guy. And he's like, hey, we're going to put you sleep. You're going to open you up. I'm going to clean you from the inside. Put you back together. And you wake up. So my way of asking the guy, I'm a very proud guy, you know, like I'm a

just a guy, so I'm not going to cry. But my way of asking the guy, am I going to die or not? It's like, am I going to see you again? Yeah. And the doctor was like, he held my hand, squeezed it, and he's like, yes, he will. I'm like, okay, you guys can put me to sleep. So they tell you, like, you know, you put this thing,

they tell you to count to tan. They are like, hey, we're taking you to the theater. My buddy who's with me is like, what fucking theater are you taking him to? And it's the British way of saying, they operate in a room. So I was in, they took me, they operated in me. I think they told me it took about five, six hours.

So they opened me up. They cleaned it. I didn't lose my kidney. Did it go through your kidney? No. It went through my intestines, through and through twice. Wow. So I lost half of my intestine.

The exit wound was half an inch away from my spine. Wow. So the doctor comes in the morning when I wake up. And I wake up and there are a lot of people. There are like, you know, guys from Navy seals, they were deploying with us. They are there. They make them fun of my stomach versus that fucking big.

And the guy was like, man, I'm glad you're not working out. I'm like, dude, it's full of air. Local doctors there, I didn't know who they are, but the local pilot sent his brother, who's a doctor. So a lot of people came. And then there was a Navy corpsman. He was with us in the Navy corpsman. The Navy corpsman was one of the guys helped them to move me from.

So yeah, so I stayed in the ER for, not in the ER, in the intensive unit, the ICU. So I was in the ICU for a day. Then they moved me to a room. regular room. When they moved me to a regular room, they, uh, the unit command, they called me like, hey, we have a plan with Medevaki to, Walter, to Germany, to launch tool, will fly your wife. There, we'll swap docs. Your wife will know it's you. And I said, nope, I don't tell my wife anything. First of all, I cannot move because you didn't know how much your core area. Yeah. You cannot really move. I mean, you are in pain. Yeah. Then you are in severe pain. The doctor who

operated in me, believed in ethical medicine. He didn't believe in painkillers. So he's like, you heal better when you're not taking painkillers. So I was not on any painkillers for like about a couple of weeks. But I told them not to tell my wife. And that's, there are like a step by step when there is like an instant, like an instant report. Okay, this is what happened, notify next scan, notify this,

notify this, notify that three. There are steps. So at that time, I do appreciate the unit command. Like, they actually honored my wish. My wife till now is pissed off. Yeah. We didn't tell her. She didn't know until after I came home.

But the thing is, I mean, I get it because there's nothing she can do about it. And it's just going to spin her, you know, put her into a spin. Like, it's sort of that no harm, no foul. Look, like, I'm here, I'm home. I agree with you 100%. Because to me, I was like, if somebody told her I've been shot. Yeah. And I'm okay.

Yeah. She will not, she's like, did he lose a rip? Did he lose his arm? No matter what they would have told her, she would have been worried. And I didn't want her to be worried. And then, but the unit had the right people ready to go tell her your husband is dead. Yeah. I mean, they did prepare everything.

Like, you know, am I going to live or die? Yeah. I keep surprising people by not dying. did you one of the things that I've always found comforting is the military sense of humor and sort of they okay you're okay let's be callous about it

in the sense of for me that's always been easier to deal to deal with than people's true like sympathy than their genuine sympathy so like when the seals are around you fucking fucking about like your belly and stuff how did that feel for you honestly it was really funny

I mean, like, the guy, one of them, they were great guys. I mean, the two guys, they were there at that time. Those are the guys who were involved in the almost ambush with us. We were not supposed to take rifles to Somalia, but we had it, they had it, we had it hidden, they had it hidden, we didn't tell them, they didn't tell us.

But then when they realized that we're doing something, we're not supposed to be doing, we've all covered for each other. Then they came, they made fun of me, I was like, you know, let's just fucking laugh. Yeah. And then one of them, like a lot of us at that time and in the age, and you can relate to this, Red Bull. We used to drink Red Bull up to the fucking Wazoo.

So these guys, he comes to visit me, one of them comes to visit me in the hospital, and he brings me a pack of Rib Bowl. And I was like, dude, I can not eat a drink. I'm in IVs. I have a hole in my stomach. So he's like, oh, I didn't know that. So he sits down and he's like, I'll fucking drink it. And he grabs it and he drinks it. And we laugh about it and this whole thing.

But yeah, the sense of humor, honestly, once you pass that, hey, this could have been one of us going away. Yeah. Well, you steal on earth, but let's just fucking make fun of you. Yeah. When I left the hospital, they had a picture of my stomach and I looked pregnant. Whoever has that picture, I would give him like $50 if you give it to me. I don't know, they kept it. I don't know what it went.

But they had a picture with that and a purple heart drone on my son. stomach in the picture I mean they really made fun of it yeah and I I did appreciate it yeah I was like huh whatever cool did the army give you a purple heart for that one it took the army a bit I bet it did because the army they were like it's funny so a purple heart is another award it's an entitlement it's a 40 they submit a 41 so the unit was was it an active enemy or not and I was like And I was like, guys, I think somebody's shooting somebody. It felt like it.

Yeah. It felt like an actor. He didn't feel like a friend. I mean. I was like, I think he's an enemy, but you guys can define that. However, so it took the army about four years. Wow. That's wild.

I mean, it's really wild because, you know, think back to like the SEP guys in El Salvador, like some of those guys still haven't gotten purple hearts from that. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it takes decades sometimes. The Army Regulations is always in favors of the service member. So if it's fixed. 50-50 an active enemy or not, they lean towards an active enemy.

I think it was just, and I don't want to badmouth any leadership. But I think it was lack of understanding of the leadership at that time. Once the paperwork was submitted to J-Socq, it was approved within 24 hours. There is no question about it. You got shot, you lost half of your intestine, you were deployed in a military mission in support of counterterror, I mean, all of these things. Right. Together, it's no question about it.

Out of curiosity, and this might be a topic you don't want to talk about, and I totally understand, but the Somali-American, like, was there ever any repercussion for that? Was, you know... No, I mean, the guy, honestly, he did what he thought was right. I mean, I never... Here, in the good dress, he saw the guy passed away a few years. years ago I visited him in the hospital here he didn't think he was doing anything

wrong it's just you have a linguist who's not trained who's not told anything and he got mad just by the wife of a terrorist so he freaks out so I was like maybe if I was in his position most likely I would have done the same no I but I don't I mean him oh you mean the other guy the other one I don't know I honestly I have yeah I hope he went to jail yeah but I don't know there were over 12 Somali the Americans that joined al-Shabaab and I think most of them got killed over there. There's even one event where they did a, they pulled SSE off a vehicle interdiction and the SSE led them back to the United States and the FBI had to go check up on that.

So the guy we have in chapter one in the book, we used to see a lot of, I don't want a bad mouth any initial mouth, we used to see a lot of guys from the Somali American community to go into, they would fly to a neighboring country in Africa, take buses or whatever, go to training camps. During the Bush administration, we had confirmed Al-Qaeda or Al-Shabaab or Al-Qaeda East Africa training camps. And we could not hit any of them because the administration at that time said we have to prove there are no Americans there.

Right. And I was like, the joke was like, okay, we'll just have a guy stand in the gate of the training camp Yeah, check and passports. So we were like, there is no way you can validate that. All we know is... How can you know for sure? Exactly. And honestly, all you know is that all of these terrorist training camps that you see on TV,

like the guy jumping monkey bars and all these, that was there. That was what was going on. Right. You're like, it's a terrorist training camp. Hit it. Eventually they're going to try to come and hit us. Right. So how do you stop that from happening?

You hit it. Right. Well, maybe there are Americans there. well those Americans are going to come back and fucking kill you yeah yeah yeah so uh to a lot of what a lot of people didn't realize the obama administration actually went extremely aggressive yeah again as those guys uh again i i'm not a lawyer so you we also took up took out uh adam adam gamaul in pakistan no uh no uh no that me i'm i hope not adam um i know who you're talking about You know who it's another Adam.

I'm sorry. I know who you're talking about, but we took out Al-Maliki in Yemen, who's a U.S. born citizen. Yeah. I imagine, you know, it's a very delicate legal issue because, you know,

the U.S. government can't, you know, just can't randomly put out hits on other Americans or whatever. Like there's, you know, the rule of law and all that stuff. But also, I mean, hey, if you're kicking it with, if you're kicking it with terror camp, It ain't Disneyland.

Exactly. And honestly, I mean, I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not catching that topic. But all I know is, from my experience during that time, during the Obama administration, we went after Al-Qaeda extremely hard. So if anybody will say, again, from my small, humble opinion, I think the Obama administration broke Al-Qaeda's back. They really went aggressive. People can criticize them. People can say,

he's the drone president, he's this. To me, I'm like, okay, you know, if you are a guy who's in a training camp in the middle of nowhere in Somalia. I was almost... Adam Godan. Yes, yes. See, one letter. Two letters.

I feel like before he even started his term, he locked in that Nobel Peace Prize. So he just, he was like, hold my beer and watch this. But, again, I'm not going into politics

in this, but I look at it as some people like precise Trump sure for certain things am I a fan of Trump no did he do good things as a president yes am I a fan of George Bush and everything he did I was really on board for the Afghanistan thing right

Iraq totally off yeah so I don't think any president would be right in every decision sure but what I saw personally during the Bush administration we had targets target packages ready, like you would not think any president,

especially a wartime president, especially a president during the 9-11, he would not go after them. He didn't. Which a lot of people were like, well, he's just a cowboy, he was going after everybody. He didn't. I'm sure he did it for the right reasons

for him and for the country at that time where we went after, like, a lot of these terrorist training camps in Somalia, Obama went after. He's like, you have a target package approved, go for it. Yeah, Bush also waffled hard on the Iranians. Like, Iranians working inside Iraq and stuff like that. And it's like, it's one of those things that you just, you're left wondering at that level, who's advising him, what information, like, why are these decisions being made?

But, but, yeah, Obama, like, I mean, his administration tore, like, they went. They went full speed, honestly, after Al-Qaeda. I think the bin Laden target package, he takes credit for it, 100% because knowing what I know about the target package, a lot of presidents would have not taken the risk. I mean, this would have cost him his presidency. This would have been desert one again,

the Iran again. But he went for it. And again, I would go and say how many presidents, including the current president, Biden was in that room and he said, don't go. We talked to Mike Vickers on the show and, you know, about how Obama told them, stop making up numbers as far as like, is it 80%, is it 30%? It's like it's a flip of the coin.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, again, I give the guy credit for going after Al-Qaeda full speed. Yeah. Another thing I wanted to ask you about is, you know, during your time in the unit, you did a number of Singleton missions. And that's like something very unique.

Not many soldiers, even in highly elite units, do that type of mission. I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about your experience. And what is that like to be behind enemy lines, so to speak, by yourself? It's terrifying. I'm not going to lie to you. So if anybody tells you like, man, I was this Superman, I was doing all of these things. I'm not scared? No, I was fucking terrified.

first one when I was in Iraq and I went out of the green zone I'm taking a car out of the green zone totally by myself this was a mission supported needed by not just the military but two other government agencies they needed that but it was going after like internet cafes operated supporting Sony extremes. And you're going out and you're like, okay, how is this going to be? And how is it going to be when I'm coming back into the green zone? Because you have maybe fourth ID soldiers, man on the gate. Right.

And they see an Arab-looking guy driving the local car coming back. So that was like the first one. So you go out, you're kind of like, okay, how is this going to be? What am I going to say? Where do I park the cord that I'm driving? How am I going to approach? And then a lot of people will tell you, like, just make sure you have all these plans.

Well, you can plan. Right, but you're still out there. Yeah, and still out there on your own. And I'm not sure how many, you cannot, you can, if what to the wazoo, and you're not going to cover all the scenarios. Right. So I'm lucky I can think of my own feet fast sometimes.

So I go out the first time, and I have a backpack I park far away I had a Glock 26 which is a smaller one in my back I have a concealable body armor and I'm wearing a shirt

kind of like loose so you cannot see it and I go to this inner neck cafe while I walk around for a bit I grab a shawarma I'm like let me just get something to eat you gotta be local so I grab a shawrma

and I'm walking around and I go to this inner neck cafe the owner of the internet cafe is a Sunni extremist. And that's the guy that we're going after. So I'm like, okay, let me see how I can walk in there. So I walk in there, speaking Arabic, but I spoke Egyptian. At that time, they were building the first GSM network in Iraq, and it was built by an Egyptian company,

so they were Egyptian engineers there. I did not think that I'm not going to take credit and tell you, well, I thought that far ahead. No, I go there and I'm not thinking, but I talk to the guy, I'm like, hey, I want to use the internet. And the guy's like, huh, you're from Egypt. Do you work for the phone company? I'm like, yes. And the guy's like, we don't have good signal here.

And he grabs one of these old Nokia phones. And I'm like, you know what? That's why I'm doing this survey to figure out where are the areas they need cell towers. And I take my equipment out of my backpack and I put it. the desk next to the guy. And I'm like, that's why I have this equipment to check where we don't have signals. And now my collection equipment is sitting on the desk with the guy. Then I start feeling comfortable.

Then I start telling the guy what happened to, we're not going to drink tea. That guy orders tea. We sit down, we talk. I take my stuff. I was supposed to do something to the desktop the guy has there. I do what I'm supposed to do as I'm talking with him. very normal. Finish that, go back.

So I did this a few times after that. Then, okay, it's a war zone. I can call, you know, I can have a squadron of Delta coming and saving my ass if these guys can nabbed me. Then it gets a lot worse when you are deploying to a regular area where you cannot have a Glock. You cannot have a body armor. You cannot have any those things. De LaVant areas, for example. I would go out by myself and do things by myself.

And when you are there, you're like, and sometimes in those areas to go back to Iraq, you are, if the bad guys from, like, if a terrorist organization or the bad guys catch you, you're going to get double whammy because they're going to be like, you're not just an American soldier, an Arab. Right. Then I don't think they're going to kill me easily. They'll torture the fuck out of me. Yeah.

And then at the same time, you're going back to the base and you have, again, a fourth ID guy. standing there and he sees this Arab-looking guy and he's like he could shoot me any time so every time you're going out it's the same thing with the embassy the Marine could have shop so every time you're doing something yeah it's dangerous it's dangerous and you have those things and I always had those things I used to have fucking dreams like about me getting getting kidnapped or captured and how am I going to be torture yeah and I'm like do I know enough verses from the Quran to convince these guys they could spare me so you do all of this is it's in your head it's in your mind all the way it's in my mind all the way it's in my mind until now honestly

and that's a lot of people like well this guy said his height his weight he gave enough information about himself to be using a pseudonym and I'm like what you're fucking walking around the street looking at every five one brown guy yeah saying that might be him so I'm like guys use some fucking common sense but I put it in the book I was like you know the guys who worked with me none of them had any doubt in his mind that it's me. I'm not hiding from you. I'm not hiding here with you guys. I'm not hiding from you.

I'm hiding from a guy might be walking down the street here. And he's like, hey, that's the studio where these guys are recording. Or I'm hiding from a, I travel a lot. I'm protecting my family. I have two daughters and a wife. My wife worked for the government for 15, 16 years. So as a family, I wanted to make sure that we are protected. At the same time,

with social media now you can connect the bots and people can connect me real me to to somebody who knows you then to you then to it's a six degree of separation yeah sure it's not that hard sure but yeah those single the singleton missions from protecting an ambassador in West Africa that she had that threat against her to doing going after the guys who were in charge of the foreign fighter pipeline going to Iraq to go and after bad guys who were going to training camps and the Gulf countries like into Yemen or Somalia

or the Horn of Africa area or going to West Africa and coming from West Africa. So there was some singleton missions where either I was going to Italy by myself from the beginning including going to a North African country and I flew for fucking average to get there and I was taking a diplomatic pouch like a non-procarry with me

and you go through all of these things anybody who went through that it's pain in the ass because you go through airports and I'm here I'm flying through France with this diplomatic pouch they're not supposed to get x-rayed so here in the US they take you through they take it through that

away from the x-ray well in France the guys doing security are different than the guys who are in charge of this. The metal detector. So the police have gas in charge of the metal detector. So they sit me aside until they bring the police, which took about 15, 20 minutes. So I'm sitting aside. And the non-procarry, the pouch is an orange bag. Obviously, I put it in a dufford bag, but the police, they want to see the seal.

So I have to take the orange bag out. So here I am sitting on the side. with a big ass orange bag waiting for the police to come and deactivate the x-ray machine and the metal detector so they can take me through. So I sat for about 15, 20 minutes. This is a singleton mission. What I have

in the diplomatic pouch is equipment I'm going to use in addition to weapons. So here you are. You're going through that in France. They come to stop everything and then I go through and for the diplomatic pouches, cannot put it in a check-in luggage. You have to keep it with you. And you cannot fucking

sleep, by the way. So it's a horrible thing. Then I'm going to check in finally. And then some of the people were going through the X-ray with me are in the same flight as me. So they look at this Arab-looking guy with this orange bag that they stop, this metal detector for him. This is something weird that people don't see. So I'm getting all of this nasty looks. And then the lead issue is like, hey, by the way, you're pouch. doesn't fit in the overhead compartment. You have to buy a seat. So I have to buy a business class seat for these back to sit next to me.

I go all the way I land. I was supposed to link up with the unit coming from Germany. The unit was coming from Germany. They brought some maps and some things that the local, the host country did not approve. They shipped them back. So by the time I went through all of these things and I landed there, mission was canceled.

It seems so weird to me or lazy on the part of somebody. And I don't know if it's the unit or the planners or the leadership or wherever that the end user, the operator, the person who is

traveling in alias and everything else is carrying anything official with them and that there aren't that there aren't couriers that are, you know, faring that stuff for, like, for meetups or drops someplace else? Yeah, no, usually, actually, you'll pouch those things.

Yeah. But this time, because I was in that country, and I did a mission there for two weeks. And as I was getting ready to leave, the chief station in that country, who was a very anti-J-Sach in the beginning, who was like, this guy is the right guy for the mission, I have another mission coming up, I want it.

So he sent a cable, like basically, question an operative or an operator with the following criteria. And when I came back, it was a Wednesday. And the unit command met me and they were like, what did you do? I thought I did something wrong. And they were like, this chief station wrote a cable, the only thing he left out is your name. But we cannot send anybody other than me. And literally, I had just, I landed.

So I think I landed on a Wednesday. I had to fly out again on a Friday. So this is because it was a very short turnaround, I had to carry. I see. But when I landed there, because the unit I was going to link up with, they were going to do something and I was going to be part of it for that mission. Again, this is a, you are a singleton that you're going to be with another group who don't know what you do, who are going to look at me like I'm a guy who speaks with an accent, you look different, but you are told you are part of us. So those are the challenges that I had to go through all the time. Because it's

so compartmentalized. Exactly. Yeah. And honestly, like I said, and after I bought it, after we did all of these things, they're like, yeah, man, mission is canceled because the other group just got sent back. You can spend two days and then you can fly back. So then they pouched everything back. I think, you know, it's interesting because you talk about this, we've talked about a little bit on the show. But, you know, you talk about sort of the fear of being around the enemy, but you've also talked about, like, crossing friendly lines. And I don't know if civilians realize just how dangerous that is for anybody who is, you know, you know, who is wearing civilian clothes.

I mean, it was not super uncommon for guys in J-Soc or other elements to get their cars shot out from underneath them by an 18-year-old 11 Bravo on a 240, even when they're like showing their American flags, you know, the little signals. It happened to us in Tikrit. Us and me and a group of Delta guys were coming back into the base. Yeah. And then we got shot at.

We were lucky that guy couldn't fucking shoot. Yeah. So he shot in top of our cars. But that's, so that's the shooting. Then me coming back from missions being pulled in the secondary in the airport. Again, if I wear, when I was wearing my uniform walking to Starbucks, I have 20 people want to pay for my coffee. But coming back from a mission, after being there for four or five months,

actually either being part of bad guys taking out, protecting the country, then a TSA agent pulls me aside, not a immigration agent, pulled me aside to ask me, if I was born in the U.S., why do I have an accent? And what I was doing. And you get asked all of these questions, and then you have to get out of jail free card. Sure.

But any guy in our community, if you use it, you fail. Yeah, right. You break cover. Right. So, yeah. Talk to us then about, you know, you left the unit at a certain point. You had like a few more assignments in the Army

before you retired, right? Yep. So I left the unit in 2011, I retired in 2016. I stayed in the Daser system, which is the closed army system. It's where it protects the identities of people who are in clean-debted. So for my, I spent 21 years in the military, 15, 16 years out of those, my records are classified, redacted, classified. So when I get asked for my HR record, my NCRs, my reports, you're going to find this guy scored this much in PT. And then the rest of the stuff, he did blank and was successful in blank

and deployed to blank to accomplish blank. So you cannot use this in anything. Then after that, I went to another Daser system unit. I spent some time overseas. We're not going to say where. That was more, again, another sensitive thing. But then I did a retire to of 2016. So you can do the map.

2011 to 2016. I did five years outside of the unit doing other things that we didn't say anything about in the book because I think it would have been redacted. And it would have invited another organization to go through the book and redact more shit. Right. So I intentionally left it out. Can you tell us what the review process was, what was like for you at this? course I can if you have time.

Send it. So the review process. So I wanted to make sure I'm doing it right from day one. I did without saying anybody's name, but I did contact people from the organization to say, guys, I'm writing a book. We can, the book will go through the legal process. I don't want to say what they said, what I said, and back and forth, but we ended up going. And so I was like, I don't want to go to jail.

I'm the first guy who was in operational status in the unit to write a book. There are other books who have written about the unit. So I checked with my co-author. I checked with my agent. I said, hey, guys, I wanted to have a lawyer. They were like Mark Zaid. That's your guy. So somebody did an introduction, contacted Mark.

I said, this is what. Mark is a super smart guy, great lawyer in the area. He's like the best in the country in the area. Mark was like, don't tell me anything about the book. I don't want to know. I cannot know. But this is the process. So Mark contacted DoD and he said, hey, I have a guy who's writing a, who wrote a book,

and this is the manuscript. This is what we have. Mark didn't have the manuscript, obviously. I wrote the book on a standalone laptop. And I told the organization, actually, I said, if you guys want the laptop, you can have it. So a laptop was never connected to an internet, none of that. DoD told Mark, well, email us the book.

And Mark was like, fuck no, I'm not going to allow my client to email you a book that you're going to deem classified after that. Yeah. So we double-wrapped the book. We met the DoD guys in the Pentagon parking lot. We gave him a double-wrap manuscript. And we said, okay, we're waiting for you. Those emails going back and forth between Mark and their lawyer.

So that was August of 2021. That's when we gave them the book. Until like June of 2022, we haven't heard anything. Like, no, not yet. No, we don't know. Then I was like, hey, Mark, if we don't have any other options, let's just sue them. Yeah. So Mark was like, okay, we have a publication date, blah, blah, blah, we have all the right things, so Mark took it to course.

When we sued them, then the judge said, okay, let's give him a timeline and go back and forth. So we went back and forth until September of 2022. So that's a year and a month. This is when we got, and this is by a lawsuit, by all of these things to push them to get us the book back with their final verdict. We got the book in September, so there was a lot of redaction. So Mark, being a lawyer, he's like, hey, you just continue with the lawsuit. You got to tell us why those things are classified. And I said, no, I don't want to do that.

I want to sit with them, and we can talk with their security guys and go over it. So an agreement happened, so I met them in September of 2022. We sat for about four hours. We went over each page, each picture, each read, The title of the book, actually the citations in the bottom. Some of stuff got redacted. So we went over all of these things. So we went over every page with each an agreement on everything.

Some stuff, I said, you know what guys? You absolutely right. I overlooked that. Some stuff I don't think it's classified, but I did respect their opinion, so I took it out. Some stuff I rewrote it the way exactly how they told me. Then after we finished all of these things, I went back, rewrote everything that way, how they wanted. We sent it back to them for approval.

It got approved. Some stuff got taken out, just totally got taken out. Some stuff got taken out and some people, when they read and they're like, okay, this is the order here doesn't make any sense, but again, it's... violating or and and this is like to protect really the guys who still doing the mission right so it's either either violating and telling you a really good story or telling you a balanced story without violating any how how has the unit responded to the publication of the book as you said you're really the first operator unit

member to write a memoir like this so that's a very good question officially the unit did not respond to anything They did not, I did not hear anything from anybody. I'm assuming, like, unofficially, guys reached out to me. Appreciated that, and guys understood. Like, I didn't do it for glory because I didn't use my name. I didn't do it for money because I'm donating. And the guy in the organization, I'm donating money to the no.

So the proceeds came from the book so far, went to an organization supporting veterans. Not all of it. We have another immigrant supporting group that we put in money. Legal immigrants, so people don't get freaked out. But we, as far as like, you know, an official respond from the unit, I haven't gotten anything. No. I don't know. Like, I wasn't one of the guys who's pissing people off in the unit.

So if people decide, like, hey, man, fuck that guy. I don't think it will go very well because again I spent my time there I served with honor I respected everybody I never said anything bad about anybody yeah I mean when you know when the book was first coming out

you know asking around about about you know getting the hall file you know we heard superstar you know you know like we heard you had a great hall file you know

well thank you I'm sure some guys don't like me but this is what I was saying before so there are guys I mean no matter what there are people who will disagree with you you went through your book you could write you could actually buy somebody a cup of coffee and if he doesn't like you he's going to be like that fucking coffee he gave me it was too hot it burned my coffee yeah and if somebody likes you you could shoot their dog and be like hey man jack had a bad day yeah he shot my dog but I know where he's coming from so and then you have people in between so if you get you guys you get you gonna try to please everybody

sell ice cream Abraham Lincoln said if I read every thing somebody wrote about me I'm not going to have time to govern so I don't read any yeah so I've learned from those things like I'm not gonna try to please anybody and the unit knows the guys in the unit

will know me they know that I did not do this to harm anybody and I definitely did not do this to cash in yeah do we have questions we do we do I just want to cover one other really important kind of concept of this book. You are an immigrant and, you know, you came to, the military recognized initially you for your talents and your abilities.

And then all of a sudden, you know, you end up in this unit where you are one of the few people who can actually do what you can do because of, you know, how you look, because of your native language ability. What do you think about how the military handles that now? Like I know some of these units now, they're like, oh, we'll just get guys here and we'll teach them the language.

Like, do you think the military has, had they gotten better, have they gotten worse? So I've been, like, out of the military now for about eight years. So I'm not sure, but I'm not seeing, I still see, and I think it's most psychological, was like people feel comfortable with people who look like them. So I still feel, are we doing a good job?

There is always room for improvement. There is always that we can actually improve what we're doing. There was a program back then called Stripes for Skills. So Stripes for Skills is going to somebody who speaks a language to bring him in two months after basic training. Two months after they graduate, I think. they pin EFI from them. And that was basically to target

certain languages that were very short from the military. So the goal was to target at that time was Arabic and Korean and Chinese, I think. And they ended up a lot of Spanish speakers. So again, the military did not, I think still the military doesn't do a good job.

Just from me talking to people in the immigrant community, when I tell some, like till now there are guys who served in the military. Immigrants, especially Arab Americans. who are ashamed or afraid, not ashamed, sorry, afraid to tell their own community they were in the military.

Yeah. Because they'll be like, you are a sellout, you are this, you are there. And I'm like, well, these guys serve with his country. So there are guys who reach not to me from that community who are like, who are extremely proud of you writing a book, you spoke what we wanted to say,

and given these guys a voice. And I think the more we do, and the military has a recruiting issue. I'm like, and what the fuck are you doing about it? Right. Yeah, we didn't meet our numbers. Because we're going to recruit in the same, from the same high schools, in the same communities, in the same cities, in the same towns. Recruit the same people.

Well, you have a whole legal immigrant community that you're not tapping into. Right. And if you do, it's not just you're going to have. And again, diversity here is not free lunch. Diversity here is like giving everybody the same opportunity, whether he's green, brown, or black. Right. And you will benefit a lot from them. because I don't think you have an award in Alabama between us and Alabama.

So if I'm recruiting people from Alabama to spy in Alabama, you're going to lose. You might want to build that more. So I think we still have a bit more to go. I was in every unit I served in, I was the only guy who looked like me. Again, I used to hang out with the Hispanic guys because sometimes it was safe. for me because I'm like, okay, I don't want people to know I'm Arab. Honestly, I was like, it's just safer to tell them I'm Hispanic. Yeah.

And the accent I have made me like, oh yeah, this guy speaks Spanish. Abla Spanish, I'm like, piquito. Just keep going. So those are the things. But I think you need to have a good environment for people like me to feel comfortable joining. And you need to do a better job in recruiting. It's also, I mean, I hate to like make. make it so trivial, but it's also an important PR message to American people who have a tendency

to believe that, you know, cultures are monolithic and that, you know, people from different areas are only going to be loyal to those areas or to those things that there can be a blend of cultures and that there are lots of people. And maybe not necessarily like from the U.S., but like from the Philippines, we have a huge history of you know you know cross you know serving you know Filipino serving in the Navy and things like that that it's not it's not the issue that people think it is I agree I mean to the point honestly speaking of that we have a lot of Filipino veterans yeah to the point the VA opened the hospital in the Philippines

yeah yeah that's how that's how many Filipino we have during the the Japanese American community yeah they served in the like we have all of these things and again to that it's a lot of I said I travel a lot. And it's extremely interesting. When I'm flying and I have like an older, no, I don't mean anything against anybody, but an older white guy sitting next to me

and he's having a conversation. And initially he's like, where are you from? What do you do? And I see that reluctancy in the discussions. And then, yeah, I'm retired from the military. He's like, which military? The U.S. military. What did you do?

And then when, then that, the conversation changes. But that shock I get in people's faces that when I say I'm a retired yes army guy it just it doesn't even overseas when I tell people

but it doesn't click. It's like because they're not expecting they're not expecting that which worked extremely well for me when I was in by I didn't have to tell anybody. They're expecting a guy that looks like John Sina or

you know one of the you know that the recruitment poster. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. My neighbor when I was living in the Maryland, Northern Virginia area, was a retired Air Force guy. When they were doing my five-year update for my clearance, they went to ask him about me. And the guy, the whole time, I'm a guy who don't go to work in certain times. I'm living in a decent house. I go to work sometimes just like you, Jack now, and wearing shorts and flip-flops. So the guy in his mind, and I look at his panic, I must be a drug dealer. I swear, he thought I was a drug dealer. And he saw me in my backyard one time smoking hookah.

He's like, that's it. He's a drug dealer. He's a junkie. Right. So when they were doing my five-year update and they asked him, and they told me that, they were like, your neighbor had no clue that you actually worked for the government. And that's why he was avoiding you. And I'm like, it worked. It does help me. It did help me sometimes. But at a certain time, too, and that's why I read the book, I'm like, people need to know. Yeah. There are people who look like me. Right. Yeah. Who served? Yes. Who actually were part of the solution, not the problem. Right. Let me get to the questions real quick here.

M. Corbin, thank you very much. Way to rep true American values out there and best wishes on your work addressing Operator Syndrome. Thank you for becoming an American citizen. Also, shout out to Blaze for Brothers. Love My Knife. Do you want to say anything about operator syndrome? Yes. so a lot of people actually PTSD is it became like you know people are okay with it

people are not okay with it people try to blame guys who are applying for VA for PTSD but the first time I've heard about operator syndrome was like a few years ago like maybe two years ago and I was talking to somebody and he explained it to me better is like you know guys like

you both of you guys were Rangers so when you are in that environment, your adrenaline is just kicking all the time. You are, you basically are a guy who's driving on the 50 gear all the time, 24-7. And you feel if you get your foot of the gas, you're going to get killed. So you do that for 10 years, 20 years, 15 years, whatever, the five years. Then you get out, but your brain doesn't operate like, hey, get your foot off the gas. There's some research that it like burns out your endocrine system. Exactly.

Yeah. So you have your foot on the gas still going. And then to add to that, a guy who came from our community, especially if you have a clearance, it used to be like, until now, I'm sure, like, guys would like, don't be fucking weak, man. Yeah. You know, just be strong. Right.

So what I want people to know is like, it's not, and I think, again, the operator syndrome is the guys who are going, and that could be a guy who's in the 82nd Airborne Division. It could be in first, like, it could be in any unit. But when you are at war for 20 years, whether you are deploying on the road. regular army unit or a special operation unit you are an alert 24-7 and then when you retire they expect you to flip that switch yeah hey man switch is off now I'm good well I've been looking for that switch for the last eight years yeah find it yeah there is no switch yeah coming to you guys so I drove around in the morning

and I checked the place and I'm like here's the door here is this that's why yeah drove on you in the morning yeah so you get it you look at all of these things because you're always on alert. I think the military have to do a better job on or do some research on teaching us where to find the switch to flip it off. Yeah. Because when it's on, it's exhausting. It is exhausting.

It's very exhausting. And it's interesting too because, you know, talk about post-traumatic stress. Like, for years, I would have told you I didn't have post-traumatic stress because there's no intrusive thoughts. There's no occurring event that I can't get out of my mind. And that's, I think, what people traditionally think of when they think post-traumatic stress, right? Is that the event, you know, the thing that I just can't get rid of. But operator syndrome explains, you know, along with all the blast injuries and TBI, all that stuff.

But it explains a lot more how, yeah, you may not have, like, recurring memories or intrusive thoughts or anything else like that. but the toll that it takes over time and puts you in that same sort of state. And you feel tired because, like, again, it's a... You were a guy who was sprinting for the time that you were in the military. When we were at war, we sprinting. So you are a guy who's printing.

You are a guy who comes back from a deployment and you get a sprint again to a deployment. Yeah. You are a guy that one time I came back from a deployment and without mentioning the guy's name, we had a troop commander who a lot of guys didn't think very highly of him. The reason he was redeploying me the next day

because I'm still packed. He's like the guy did not unpack yet. And I'm like, that's not a fucking good reason to deploy. Yeah, yeah. So you are a guy and then, hey man, you're going on this mission because we're going to catch the ball in this time. So you're not going to say no to that. Then you deploy and deployment.

So again, you are a guy on the fifth gear the whole time. And then you're tired, but you don't know why. Yeah. Your brain is going. You can't sleep well. You don't know why. You, they kept fucking giving you methoquine. They're giving you all of these different medicine.

When you deploy. They're giving you tons of vaccines. Your case is a red bull. Yeah. Cases of red ball. Dip. Whatever, whatever gets you going. Yeah.

They used to give us ambient when we're flying. So when we land there, we are on that. We just hitting the ground running. Yeah. So you do that for years, and you're special. Yeah. You're very special. And on top of that, though, are also your own internal feelings,

the guilt if you're not there with your guys, the sense of duty that keeps you driving forward. Like, a lot of it is also, like, self-inflicted. Correct. It's self-inflicted, but that's why I was saying. So you're special by being in the game, and then all of a sudden you're no longer in the game. Yeah.

But your brain still is. Yeah. still is. Yeah. You didn't process the amount of the game. Yeah. So I really hope they come find that switch and tell us where it's at so we can turn it off. That's fantastic, man.

Thank you. Semperfi, EDC guy. Thank you very much. Thanks for the awesome guest. Can you ask him how difficult was for him if he had to integrate with big army, navy, etc. on certain missions without telling them who he really is? So I was very lucky. I never had to integrate with a big army other than in Iraq, actually, we went and I think

4th ID were there, a second unit from 4th ID were there. So we went to try to basically coordinate with them, and then I was trying to tell them how to use the equipment, how to do that without telling them who we are, but we had this weird looking badge that gave us access to different areas so they knew we were special. All of them were Russian speakers. in Iraq. So we were like, okay, guys, you might need an Arabic speaker with you, so we were

helping them. But we never really had to do that in a lot of details. There was some stuff with the Navy. Luckily, when we went, we were there as civilians. Because Navy is very, we went on an aircraft carrier.

So we can eat actually with normal people. We didn't have to eat in different areas. Yeah, yeah. But usually those commanders at those units, they know who we are and what we don't, so they facilitate things. Yeah. But they integrate them with big army. Luckily, I didn't have to do that in a lot of details. Semper five, I'm actually not the question.

I'm not going to ask them the question, and the only reason I'm not going to is, Well, it's just for, you know, because whether you say yes or no, the question is whether you know somebody and whether you say yes or no, like I, you know, we'll leave, you know, connections or non-connections out there in the ether. But thank you for the donation. And if you have another question, we're happy to ask that. Let me see. De, was there anything on Patreon? No. I think that is it then. Yep. That's it. So, everybody, please buy and read this book. Buy it for friends. Buy it for enemies. Buy it for everybody you know. You know, it's great. And even if you're not somebody who is, I mean, if you're watching the show,

then you're probably into, you know, military special operations. But even if you're not, it's really a fantastic personal story. thank you I wanted to thank you guys so I listened to your podcast as I got to know you guys before I came

so I feel it's unfair so you guys read my books your recon but I did my recon I did my homework reading listening to your book actually just you going through what you went through

first of all I mean like for somebody who's like 20, 21 years old in charge of like a ranger team and doing an ambush and all of these things and I'm like holy shit it's a little surreal looking back on yeah and I'm like man I joined the army when I was 25 and I think if I was in your place I would have like I would have totally failed and I'm like it's not just the guy talked about like he's like okay you know I did this and I went through it and now you teach him people you're talking about it and you wrote it in your book and you talk about it

So it means a lot to most like a lot of people more than you think. Yeah, thank you. No, I mean, when you write something, you know, you hope it connects with people. And it's very interesting to see how it connects with different people in different ways. You know, like my book, half of it is my military time. Half of it is working in journalism, conflict journalism. And some people, sometimes the military people actually really relate to the second half, the journalism stuff more than the military or vice versa.

So it's very funny to see, you know, and I'm sure you've experienced. experience to two with your book that you know yeah when you write something and put it out there different people connect with it in different ways right yeah and you and the other thing i mean you put in your life out there yeah and a lot of people don't realize like when you write something when you write a memoir you actually telling people look at me i'm standing naked yes i'm seriously i mean i'm standing naked you know you know i was the guy in egypt who couldn't buy a black shoes a lot of people don't want to admit like those struggles they went through

but you're doing these things to hopefully open the door for other people to say you know this poor kid came from Egypt and he was able to retire as a sergeant major in one of the most elite units then I can do it too that's what and then I think I talked about this too I was in Jersey where

I got robbed and somebody hit me in my fucking head with a beer bottle and I'm like man Dave I got something in common with you I'm like, but you got hit with a brick more than me and I didn't pass out. Well, you're stronger than I am. No, I got just, for me, it was just a beer bottle. So I was like, huh. But you don't know honestly how much we have in common until you start talking to each other and opening up and having this conversation.

So people, like, for a lot of the military guys or young guys, I'm like, just open up, you realize how much we have in common more than you think. Yeah. And then we are stronger together than just let's just, you know what, when I see you in the street, you know what, you look different than me, so I'm not going to talk to you. And I look different than you, so you're not going to talk to me. So those are the things. And I do appreciate the opportunity to be here and talk to you guys. Welcome back anytime. And let me just tell people out there, please check out our Patreon.

If you haven't already, there's a link down in the description. And if you subscribe to us on the Patreon, you get all these episodes ad-free. And you support the channel. We really appreciate it. And Adam's book, the link is in the description. There's going to be a link to Adam's book down below as well. The Unit by Adam Gamal with Kelly Kennedy. I hope you guys will go and check out the book.

And on Friday, we're going to have a pre-recorded episode with Command Sergeant Major, Mike Adams, retired Special Forces guy, did all kinds of cool stuff through his career. So you'll see that on Friday. Adam, anything else you want to put out there? Anything you want to shout out before we roll out today? I want to thank Kelly Kennedy and I want to thank the publisher. So Kelly Kennedy, I met her through somebody else who was asking me to self-publish. And she and I, like when we talked and we talked and I was like, so she's the one who introduced

me to the agent. The agent found the publisher, the publisher took a gamble on me. This is a, again, it's a first of a kind book. So I want to thank them for that. then I have received tons of messages from people who are very supportive, who encourage me. One of them is here. But I did receive a lot of things from, like good things from people. Obviously, I received a lot of hate messages as well, which is okay.

Really? Yeah, I got some good hate messages. Nasty grams? Nasty grams. Nasty grams, people criticizing me, people calling me a liar, which is fine. Yeah. I knew exactly what I was writing the book for. I was writing the book for a special, specific kind of audience.

Hopefully, the message came across to balance between classified information and telling a story is not easy. Yeah, yeah. So it's like playing that, being in that fine area in the middle. Yeah. But honestly, I wanted to thank everybody. I wanted to thank unit leadership, current and former leadership, that who, did not shut the unit the book down. I'm not sure if they tried it or not, but they didn't.

You mentioned the hate mail. I also want to tell people, when you read the book, please leave a comment on Amazon or wherever you buy it. One of the things I noticed was that the ratings are lower than what the book deserves, and it's because people want a, they want an in-depth look into the special unit which you're not able to do.

Which you're not able to do. And they don't understand this is a memoir. This is about you and, you know. Yeah, hopefully people respect that too and understand it. Yeah. And people who understand that, they understand like it's an honorable thing. Yes. For me.

But I could have, you know, if I wanted to, I could have just wrote everything without going to publication and put it out there and then harm everybody who's operating now, shut the unit down most likely. So that's not the intent. But the intent is like to give you a glimpse of what, out there in addition to the book is not political right so some people is like well this guy criticized uh that trump administration but did not criticize the biden administration right the book has been in fucking review forever right so if the book actually i i am personally when i talk to people

i do criticize the the biden administration for how we pulled out of afghanistan i i don't think it was the right way, but the book was in pre-publication review. So it's not, I'm not with or against any parties. Obviously, I'm more into the left side than the right side. If you guys buy this on Kindle, Adam said he will update the book with each administration and his critique. I'm just kidding. That's not true. Yeah, so, but yeah, so people read and get in the book looking at, you know, I'm kicking every door, I'm killing everybody.

Yeah. You know, every brown guy we've met in the way we killed. I killed 100 Iraqis by myself. That's not it. The book is more of a let's work together and let's look at have a glimpse of there. And let's look at the different communities and how we can do better together. It's interesting too because like you talking about your experiences overseas, it really calling that calls back when we had Jack Devine on the show

and him saying that U.S. intelligence needs a new path. you know a new sort of class when it comes to you you just especially with technologists waiters you can't just have a bunch of white people working out of the embassy and expect to to gather the type of intelligence that you need these days yeah I mean with the world is changing yeah and if people don't realize that then they are dinosaurs and they're gonna yeah yeah but the world is changing and and we need to be moving with how the world is changing Just an anecdote that I used to say when I was in the military

We have all of these military manuals on how to do everything Yeah how to tie your shoes how to write a memo and what I used to tell people I'm like do you think The 9-11 guys wrote a memo to bin Laden saying he we're gonna go do 9-11 and Ben Laden grabbed the memo and then fold it in half and he's like your signature block is not in the center Right, right and you're not five spaces between the last Ariel font Exactly so I'm like that's That's how they are operating, and if you want to defeat the enemy, you've got to understand the enemy's language.

Yeah. And what I mean by language here, like, in general, not the culture of how they operate. Exactly. So that's how we're going to win. But if we're going to stay divided and say, you know what, you wear shorts and I don't like shorts, and I'm not going to deploy with you because you wear shorts. Right. Then we're not going to win. Right.

So if we want it to win, we're going to do a lot better. I'm going to get Greek lizard camo shorts for the entire army. I'm over there. But thank you guys. Thank you, man. Thank you, Adam. So guys will be back Friday with Sergeant Major Mike Adams. And Adam, thank you again for coming by.

Thank you. Hope to see you again soon. Definitely.