The Team House - BREAKING: The U.S. Cuts Intel Sharing w/ Ukraine | EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

Episode Date: March 5, 2025

Marc Polymer returns today with Jack Murphy to talk about the US cutting intelligence sharing with the Ukrainians and what the fallout could be with all the CIA Officers being let go.New merch, patches, and stickers! ⬇️https://theteamhouse-shop.fourthwall.comSupport the show on Patreon:⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouseMarc Polymer ⬇️https://x.com/mpolymer?lang=enhttps://web-cdn.bsky.app/profile/did:plc:4hfd6gooiddj6aelubt7jlrzJack Murphy:⬇️https://x.com/JackMurphyRGR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5EauthorWe Defyhttps://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1NThe High Sidehttps://thehighside.substack.com/Find Andy Milburn here: ⬇️https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fandymilburn8https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmilburn2023https://amilburn.substack.com/https://www.amazon.com/When-Tempest-Gathers-Mogadishu-Operationshttps://bsky.app/profile/andy-milburn.bsky.socialhttps://open.substack.com/pub/amilburn/p/journal-of-a-plague-year?utm_source=app-post-stats-page&r=emo6q&utm_medium=iosFind Mick Mulroy here: ⬇️https://fogbow.com/https://www.loboinstitute.org/https://x.com/MickMulroy?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthorhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-patrick-mulroy-31198b52/https://bsky.app/profile/mickmulroy.bsky.socialFind Jason Lyons here: ⬇️https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-lyons-666873316?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_apphttps://bsky.app/profile/bgsilverback73.bsky.sociMusic by - Karl Casey @ White Bat AudioBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

It's interesting, there's a, there is a smaller parallel. I mean, what's going on now is unprecedented, I think, but a smaller parallel would be during the Nixon administration. Nixon saw the CIA as part of the deep state. Like, they're against me. And he made a bunch of cuts to CIA that actually came into effect during the Carter administration. And my point there is that there's like this sort of like story.

there's some mystique around it even about all these laid off CIA officers who went into the private sector. And from there it was like the Wild West for these guys. And it's going to be interesting to see where this generation of disenfranchised intelligence officers end up. I mean, some of them will end up working for the Europeans, the Australians, you know, things like that. Some of them might just go over to the other side. What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Eyes On. Today is a special one. We got Jack Murphy and Mark Puymeropolis. A lot going on.

More fallout from the chaotic meeting in the Oval Office last week. We just found out literally just now before we got on that the U.S. has paused or suspended intel sharing with Ukraine as well as the military aid from the other day. So what's up, guys? Mark, how are you? What are your thoughts? Okay. Before, you know, well, first of all, it's always dangerous for the team. house and for eyes on to have jack and i on together um because this can now spiral into uh not only kind of gloom and doom but also some rage now this is great i'm always happy to be back but i want to say thank you you guys i received a package in the mail yesterday and my wife is like what is this like a fucking car bomb letter bomb no it was two t-shirts appropriately double extra large because

i'm fat um from the team house so thank you guys i will wear them proudly i am honored um Love it. Great bullet. I mean, who doesn't love like, you know, Bling? It's good stuff. Swag. Swag. Swag. So thank you. Thank you both very much. Our pleasure. Good show. That was great. Just a little quick merch plug. I loved it. So yeah, back to reality, unfortunately. Yeah, this morning, I guess it just popped off that the U.S. has cut the flow of Intel into Ukraine, which is, insane to me. I feel like the next the next step is Starlink probably. Oh yeah. And so but one key

thing on this just for the kind of the this will probably come out in a couple hours or maybe tomorrow, but just you know, that story is confirmed. I'm hearing from all my contacts, both in the government and on the Ukrainian side that the intel has been has been stopped. There's some confusion on, not confusion. There's some discrepancy on whether it was targets inside Russia or cutting off the intel targets against Russian forces inside Ukraine. But the bottom line is, I think that that is confirmed. And John Rackleff, the CI director just went on Fox just this morning and said the same. So this is, you know, I think this is something that I was dreading happening after the cessation of military aid. But it really does kind of put this in perspective. And Jack will

understand because it's not just on the Ukrainian battlefield. That Jack, you might be able to address this in a much more professional manner than I would based on your background. But overall, I mean, our durability and credibility as an intelligence partner globally, I think, is going to take a hit. So, you know, again, there's never a bottom. And I think we're still plummeting downward. But Jack, welcome your thoughts on the military effects of this. Well, I mean, it's going to definitely put Ukraine on their back foot. And I don't, I'm like you.

I mean, I'm trying to understand or like search for some sort of like logic or sense behind some of these decisions, but can't find them. You know, Russia is within put up basically on the ropes. Their economy is cratering. It's a position that we've never really had the upper hand on them like this before. And I don't know why we would sacrifice that advantage in this. era of, you know, pure, near-peer competition or whatever the hell we want to call it, New Cold War. So, yeah, it's a mess, obviously, for Ukraine.

But as you point out, Mark, it signals to the entire rest of the world that we're not reliable, that you can't work with us. And, you know, there's some thought that the reason why we fought so hard in Vietnam, sort of a somewhat obscure country in Southeast Asia at the time. that not many Americans had ever heard of. The reason why we fought there so hard was because we're trying to prove to Europe specifically that we were willing to stand up to communism. Right now, what we're doing in Ukraine, doing this heel turn on them, it signals something to Taiwan. It signals something to our partners in Europe and also our partners closer to home, such as Canada,

that just got slapped with a 25% tariff just yesterday. I think one of the things is that, you know, the little like I say, you know, I wake, I get up early. I got up at 5 in the morning. Often I have to do TV at that time, too, so I'll kind of roll into my computer and I'll do a hit on MSNBC. But, you know, every morning there's three or four different stories, which are kind of headspinning. And then that only is based on that day because just 24 hours or just 24 hours. earlier, there were three or four stories that also were head spinning. So it's, you know, the news cycle is such that there are really significant ramifications for these national security for

these moves by the administration, but I don't even know if we have a time to even kind of do a deep dive or dissect because it's just eclipsed by something else. The cessation of military now, the cessation of intelligence sharing. Yeah, it's intentional. You know, it's, but ah, you're right. It's intentional. I mean, isn't that the, what Steve Bannon talked about? What was it? Yeah. Yeah. It's also following the playbook of that weirdo Curtis Jarvin, who came up, his whole plan

to like break the government. And they're pretty much following it. They're following the game plan. I saw it today. Another one of those head spinning stories, Veterans Affairs intends to lay off 89,000 employees this year, which is pretty wild. VA is a big organization. It's funded almost or has been funded.

We'll see how long that holds out to the tune of almost $300 billion a year. And there are a lot of complaints about VA. But that organization has also come quite a long way in the last 20 years. Thanks, you know, a lot of it, thanks to public and congressional pressure that people are like, fix this. like because they feel that veterans deserve better care. You know, especially all the things that were, you know, people were hearing about the GWAT veterans, 22 a day and all this sort of stuff did have an impact.

And I have a number of friends who are veterans who work at VA in different capacities in different parts of the country. And they're already impacted by this. When I was telling you earlier, Mark, I mean, it's a little hard for me. me to grasp or understand. Like, if you go and log on to Facebook right now, all I see is retirees, military retirees, just cheering this on. And they will tell you with a straight face, these were all DEI hires. They were all woke. We're cutting the fat. We're getting rid of unnecessary spending. Hey, don't worry. This isn't going to affect anything as far as veterans care.

and it's like who where are we going here um i'm all about trimming some fat but yeah if if you're like firing the mckinsey consultants or something sure but they're firing like the therapists and you know people who actually work there this is madness i mean again it's i think it's part of the disinformation bubble i'm sorry this is the the bullshit on fox news i mean i have friends who work there but you know it's it's you know if you turn on fox news you don't hear about any of the pain um you know this administration, you know, you know, says it supports veterans, yet it's crushing them right now with these cuts. This administration says it, you know, there was a touching moment last night on the president's address to Congress about a young cancer patient that, you know, kind of got a lot of

attention, except they're cutting funding for cancer research. And so, pediatric cancer research. Pediatric cancer research. There's the actual truth of what is going on, which is gutting the federal government without any kind of plan. Look, I think all of us here in the show would say, sure, there's a ton of waste in the federal government, but it has to be done in a smart systematic fashion.

And then passed by Congress, which they're not even doing it because they just passed a budget in the house that raises the deficit by $400 billion this year. So, so, you know, none of this is all, I mean, just as someone, you know, okay, I'm from New Jersey, so deal, you know, you guys, Brooklyn and Queens folks will make fun of but, you know, I wasn't born, you know, yesterday.

I have kind of a brain in my head. And so it just, none of this makes sense. I mean, you know, it's just, it's the, it's the bullshit PR versus actually what's happening on the ground. At some point, perhaps it'll catch up to them. Jack, you're right. It's the former intelligence community, a lot of folks, too, who are on LinkedIn, which I actually got off because I couldn't take it, who cheerily or cheerleading

all this stuff. And now I'm going to get the audience all pissed off. It's a bunch of old white dudes. It just is. It's old cranky white dudes. guys were really angry for some reason about the state of the country or cheering this on. But I think there's tangible effects. Let me throw one of the kind of thing out there. I got an email, a signal message. Let me be very clear on that from a case officer,

CI case officer who on Monday was fired, a probationary officer. They're starting to fire probationary officers, but they're doing it based on anyone who had any kind of blip in their file, a security violation, some kind of bad performance appraisal. Every single one of us in the IC would have been fired then. I had security violated. You screw up every once in a while you leave the station one time, you don't spend the lock in the safe in your office. You get a violation. It's not ever career ending.

It's just saying like, hey, tighten your shit up. They're fired now. And this case officer was absolutely stunned. Someone had gone through language training, spoke fluent Russian, served over there in that part of the world. and was less than two years into their probationary status. And now they've been walked out the door. Again, these kind of cuts make no sense. And I think that the only question is,

will the American people ever kind of step up and understand what's happening? Mark, I'd love to ask you if there's a bit of an insider's view you can share with what's going on with Ratcliffe at CIA. And that's one of the appointees. Like, at least I haven't seen in the news too much. Or I haven't heard from people I know so much yet. Like, what's going on behind closed doors?

Like, because I remember during the first Trump administration, there's a lot of concern about Pompeo. But I talked to people who said he was okay. He wasn't bad as DCI. I'm one of those people you talk to. I mean, now that's a radically different administration because there were adults in the room. you had, you know, Jim Mattis, you had various national security advisors, but ultimately HR McMaster and John Bolton. You had people who would stand up to Trump for kind of his crazy ideas, including Pompeo. Pompeo, who clearly was partisan, nonetheless, let the director of

operations do its job. And so, I think you're right. And he was visible. You know, he actually, you know, went to work and you saw him. And I remember in, you know, even in briefing, with him when we asked for something like concurrence to do something, he'd be like, why are you asking me this? Go do it. And that's kind of music to our ears from the operation side. I think this is a different time, though, because there are no adults around Trump. And so, you know, the best characterization of what I think those in the Pentagon and the

intelligence community are feeling now is disoriented. And that's just, you know, it's just there's so much coming at us. And it's both based on policy, such as the abandonment of Ukraine, but also your job security. People don't know if they're going to have a job. I just got a message from a friend of mine from the I see, hey, I'm going to work. I'll text you later if I have a job when I get back. There is, you know, fear is the wrong word because fear is something you use when you're in Afghanistan or Iraq and getting shot at. But I think, you know, you know, significant concerns.

is probably better because you don't know if you're going to have, you can pay your bills. You know, people have mortgages, people have health care. I mean, this officer who just got fired doesn't have health care right now. And so people are extremely nervous because it's both, you know, trimming the fat if you want to call that, you know, with reductions in force at the top or this idea of getting rid of kind of the lower level employees as well. And so I think the people in the IC are just disoriented right now. And it's what the Jack, the thing is that of course nobody, I mean, I hope some of your viewers, listeners will understand. There is no deep state. There's no cabal of people stopping, you know,

Trump from anything he wants to do. People put their heads down and they just do their job. I mean, I literally had no idea what anyone's political orientation was in my old shop until after I left. I retired and then I see someone and they turn out to be from the left or the right just because they're Americans and they can say that. But I think now there's just, Again, there's significant worry about the U.S. role in the world now since we've switched sides to our enemy. Remember, Russia is an enemy of not only the United States, of the CIA. That is one of our absolute, it's not just a competitor, not even adversaries, it's an enemy. I mean, Russia put bounties on U.S. soldiers with the Taliban.

They've, you know, they've done a tremendous, you know, harm to colleagues of mine. So again, combination of we've, you know, flipped sides, but also, you know, do I have a job tomorrow? That's not a good mix, by the way, if you want, you know, what I think is, you know, you want our kind of nation's first line of defense to be kind of at the top of their game. Specifically about Ratcliffe, what are you hearing about him behind the scenes? I got it. I mean, I got to be careful on this. Exactly. I mean, you know, I think that, that, you know, what you'd want to see someone, how do I say this in a more positive light, I think the director and the deputy director have to be more visible to the workforce at a time of upheaval, which means doing things like Leon Panetta used to do, George Tenet used to do, literally go down the cafeteria

and sit down with a unsuspecting case officer, analysts, and have lunch with them, which happened to me. it's you know and that's that's really and I think that was even a scene in uh zero dark 30 um with the character of pen that stuff used to happen so so the director of deputy director have to be visible especially at times of of turmoil so if I would have any one suggestion I think they should be more attuned to to upheaval in the workforce what she was there that was very nice that was pretty professional mark you held it together what are your thoughts on the director of national intelligence going on news and

basically parroting kind of Russian talking points and stuff like that? Well, Dee, I expect you to be up at 5 a.m. from MSNBC hits. So if you were to have been up yesterday, you would have seen, because this is the only thing I addressed from 5 until 515. And then I actually have forgotten it because it was so early and I was so tired. But look, this is totally not with what someone who had role. as an intelligence chief should do. So basically, President Zelensky gets dressed down

by Trump in the White House in the Oval Office. And what happens usually is the rest of the government then who has contacts with the Ukrainians will be like, hey, that's in the political sphere, like things are going to be okay. That's not what happened because Tulsi Gabbard then went on Twitter and basically was cheerleading and dissing all over Zelensky.

That is absolutely against what any kind of professional intelligence chief would do. It's not their role. What should have happened after that is that the CIA and the Ukrainian side would get together and say, look, our political masters are having a big shitstorm, but we're going to work through this. That's just what's done it. It happened to me when I was at the agency when, you know, Trump won when, when, you know, Trump would insult Angela Merkel, the German chancellor in a Twitter rant, and then I'd have to go, you know, men ties here in Washington with the German intelligence chief. And so, you know, that's just what is done. If you think back to the first Gulf War, I know I'm dating people here, but this is when

when King, then King Hussein sided essentially with Saddam Hussein in the invasion of Kuwait, if you remember that. So the Jordanians were, quote, neutral. But the CIA and the Jordanian general intelligence director, GID, kept the ties open. And King Abdullah, the current king now, credits that for the current state of U.S. Jordanian ties. He said, hey, I remember that you all CIA, you know, stuck with us under the table. Now this is done on purpose, of course, by design, because you work through those political differences. Tulsi Gabbard, going on Twitter and cheerleading for, you know, Trump's kind of, you know, evisceration of Zelensky, absolutely throws that into question. And I can't imagine the migraine headache, my old colleagues and the

operations directorate had realizing they'd have to know, try to figure out how to unscrew this with the Ukrainian colleagues. And then, of course, that falls or that now we see today a suspension and intelligence sharing. And so, you know, Gabbard is, as I said on TV, so I'm not going to, I'm not going to try to downplay it here. She was not fit for the job. And she's acting like a political toady to Trump. And that's just not what her role is. And that is, that actually feeds into all the worries we had about her as the DNI. Just a, an awful moment. And, uh, and, and this, this is just not me talking. This was kind of a, uh, you know, my colleagues, you know, my, the, the farmers, um, even across the political spectrum, I had Republican friends who were like, yeah, she really

shouldn't have done that. You know, what is she doing here? Hey, guys, it's Jack. I just want to talk to you for a moment about how you can support the show. if you've been watching it, enjoying it, but you'd like to get a little bit more involved and help us continue to do this. You can check out our Patreon. It is patreon.com slash the Teamhouse. And for $5 a month,

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The Patreon members are literally what has helped this company, this small business, survive, especially during our early years, and you are what continues to help this thing going, even as we navigate the turbulent world of YouTube advertising. So we really appreciate all of you guys. There's going to be a link down in the description to that Patreon page, and there is also going to be a link. link to our new merch shop. So if you guys want to go and get some Team House merchandise, we got stickers, and we also have patches. And I should mention, if you sign up for Patreon at $10 a

month, we will mail you this patch as well. So we really appreciate that. But they're also for sale on the merch shop. And additionally, they got T-shirts up there, water bottles, tote bag, coffee mugs, all that good stuff. So please go and check them out. And so please go and check them out. support the show. We really appreciate it, guys. Thank you. Yeah, it's an interesting time and it's challenging to talk to friends, colleagues, et cetera, in many cases. I mean, something is happening within the United States government and to the United States government right now that I don't think most Americans have like, it hasn't sunk in yet. They aren't really clear about what's going on or what's being done or how this fundamentally takes

America in a different direction and maybe it's not the one they think. So, Jack, that's a really good point. So, you know, there's, there's the kind of the day-to-day, you know, outrage or concern over, over what's happening. But then there's the bigger picture, you know, in the sense of, you know, who are we now? This, you know, and, you know, this, this kind of war on the, on government. There's always going to be a debate on how much kind of government intrusion in our lives is necessary. But I think we could also say that, you know what, it's good thing to have weather forecasters, you know, on the government payroll. They were fired the other day. You know, I mean, it's a good thing to have people fighting wildfires out west.

They were fired the other day. And the same thing with, you know, workers at the VA, including many veterans. And so I don't know if the American people have woken up to the fact that this is a complete dismantlement of the federal government. And people hate government until they need government. Yeah. And so to me, I mean, again, there's, you know, this is, you know, go back to, you know, your old kind of theories of politics. I mean, I don't know. Are we going to turn into, you know, Anne Rand? I got to go back and read Anne Rand, the whole idea of total libertarianism. There's no government at all. Is that really what we want? Because that, you know what? No one's picking up your garbage. No one's fighting your fires in your house. There's going to be a tornado. It's going to

demolish your house. No one kind of warned you about it. So there's there's parts of this that I just kind of I think are and the last part of it, let me just say is as a former government employee worked for 26 years, you know, at some point, you know, I'm starting to get irritated. You know, I don't need a patent ahead. I work with the CIA. No one ever knew what we did. But this hatred on the federal workforce is, is wearing a little thin. It's, I mean, what do you attribute that to? I mean, touched on it a little bit about some of the anger. Like there's something, not to like wax poetic or play Sigmund Freud maybe a little bit too much, but I mean, there seems to be this like total disenfranchisement with the very idea of governance that that government can come in and through

policies and reforms that can improve conditions for people. It seems like there's just no belief in that at all anymore across the spectrum. And just the other thing I would point out is that a lot of of people are treating politics as entertainment. Yeah. And I can't really totally blame them either because our politicians and our media have both packaged and branded politics as entertainment to them for decades. Yeah. And I think that has led us to maybe where we are today. But I mean, what are your thoughts about, you know, why? I mean, this is clearly, there is clearly some support, public support for this at the moment. There may not be in another year or two. Yeah. Where do you think some of those things come from or that difference in perspective?

So I think, you know, so let me, let me answer this. You know, I was in New York City after 9-11 and I saw how New Yorkers came together, which was remarkable. I mean, I'll never forget, you know, I lived up on 80th in York, a nice Upper East Side living there. And I remember there was a pizza guy on 2nd Avenue in the 80s somewhere. He was Egyptian. And I was worried about him. and he hung American flag outside his pizza joint, and he was embraced by the community.

Really impressive. I remember President Bush saying that, hey, there cannot be kind of any, they cannot be anti-Muslim sentiment based on this. You know, this is not, we're not going to war with Islam.

We're going to war with Al-Qaeda. But there was a feeling of kind of collective goodwill. And then I remember that, and so then compare that to then, you know, what happened to COVID. A million Americans died in COVID. And there was a point in time where there was, a feeling of unity amongst the country. But that then all fell apart. And why is it? I'm trying to

answer your question. Because government, I think, took measures, which I think were understandable at the time in terms of mask mandates and quarantines and shutting down basically the entire country because they were scared and people didn't know what to do. I mean, my stepbrothers, an ER doc in New York. He had dead bodies piling up. I mean, the doctors have still a PTSD from this. He said they had no idea what they were doing. They would treat a patient. They're coming in they looked okay, they'd send them home, they're dead. There was bodies, one of my stepbrothers' fellow doctors committed suicide after this because they had such trauma for, I mean, literally hundreds of people dying on shift.

Yeah, my mom worked in a hospital and they had like the refrigeration truck out back. It's stunning. It's stunning. And so, but then the government reaction to this, which I think was very understandable at the time is, you know, and they got some things wrong. But, you know, whether it's shutting down schools, which was very harmful to kids, but mask mandates, which I thought were fine, but people kind of freaked out about. And I think that is where you see this hostility to government now, because there is a large percentage of our population thinks there was huge government overreach on there. So I was thinking about that the other day is, you know, why this hatred of the government, but I think it was people saw that as an infringement on their rights.

And that's the only way you can explain how this fucking nut job is now our HHS secretary in terms of RFK Jr. I mean, the man is certifiably insane if you talk to any medical professional. Yet he's lauded last night in the state of the union as well. Well, why is that? Because he, again, is part of this kind of, you know, anti-government sentiment. I don't know. So I think it goes back to a reaction to, you know, government measures during COVID. perhaps it's more deep-seated than that.

But to me, that was, and by the way, that is not, that's across the political spectrum, too. I mean, this is a silly statement what I'm going to make is, you know, my son's big baseball player. He's played baseball in college now, but it's high school season that, you know, was canceled because of COVID. This was a season in which they thought they'd win the state championship. And most of the people I live in Northern Virginia certainly are not Trump voters. And they're still furious about this. You know, why did they cancel school? And, you know, and so maybe it's, maybe it's just the reaction overall.

to COVID. I mean, that's definitely interesting. I hadn't really thought about that, but I'm sure you're right. That did pull the country apart in more ways than one. I mean, I don't know. Like, I mean, I'm like, there's something off with me now. Well, there's probably a lot off with me now.

But every time I go on a goddamn plane, I get sick. I get the flu. I don't get caught. I've had COVID a million times. But so like I was on a flight the other day and I wore a mask. I might as well have had a giant dick growing out of my head. Like I was like, like people are staring me. like I was a pariah.

And I was like, you know, hey man, like I'm not getting the flu again. I've got to go on this, you know, I got to go on this airline flight. But, you know, wearing a mask. I mean, there are measures in certain states banning the wearing of masks right now. That's the, that's the reaction to COVID. And so, yeah, maybe that's. I mean, it's interesting that they want to ban masks and like want to talk about like, you know, your body, your choice and like you could do whatever you want to do.

But if I want to wear a mask, that's not right. Wear a mask. That's what I'm saying. Like, if you don't want to wear a mask, that's fine, too. Like, why you getting so triggered over the fact that somebody wants to wear a mask in an airplane with, like, 300, you know, 200 other people? All right. I have a great, I have a great little plug for a show that hopefully the listeners are like. There's a show on Max now called The Pit.

Have you guys seen it? It's about an ER emergency room in Pittsburgh. I saw like clips from it. Phenomenal. It's an incredible show. Again, my brother, who's an ER doc in New York said it's 100% realistic. But there's a great scene in there in which there's someone who's against masks comes in, and in the ER, and she's screaming at other people for wearing masks.

And then she's about to roll into surgery. And the doctor says, ma'am, I just want to clarify something with you. You know, is it okay if the doctors here wear masks as we're performing surgery on you? And she said, well, I don't know. You know, why? He said, well, you know, if we don't, you know, you can get infected and you might die. But if you tell us, you don't want us to wear a mask, we're happy not to. and she looks at them and she says wear a mask there you go yeah yeah um all right

swinging back to ukraine and stuff like that um can i ask a question can europe fill the void oh great question i saw so you know i'm i'm a member of about 45 different signal chats on this on ukraine so i got i got to i got to roll through them every morning but you know the majority of of people i talk to and again as a former intel officer i'm not a former you know uh professional military officer or strategist. But I think there's a lot to be said that, that first of all, Ukraine can hang on. And just remember, we have written Ukraine's death, you know, obiturate death notice so many times. And so just keep in mind that, and Jack will get this. You know, there's a couple things in war that I think are relevant.

One is, of course, material resources, but also it's the will to fight. And the Ukrainians have that. And that's kind of that intangible. But if you look at the battlefield, So much now is less dependent on kind of the, I think, the way we thought of things before with, you know, with maybe with armor, with tanks or even things like that. And now it's now it's all these kind of not only drones, but indigenously produced drones. The Ukrainians have an incredible capacity for these FPVs, these FPVs. And so ultimately, I think they're going to be able to hold on. To me, I think the big thing would be air defense. and getting the Europeans to kind of step up on that. But again, we've written Ukrainians, you know, obituary many times. And so at some point, I think, and this is not a bad strategy, Europe should say, well, fuck it. The United States has switched sides. Goodbye.

You're not relevant anymore. And I can't believe I'm even saying that. But I think there's something to that. And that's if the Europeans can get their craft together and lead. And there are a lot of signs that they will, you know, in terms of leadership from Germany, from France, from the UK. and then don't forget the kind of the smaller front line states who are just savages, you know, go talk to the Estonians or the polls about what they want to do and how they want to kill Russians and it's fun. Yeah. We've kind of like resisted the idea of like, not Europe being unified economically, but being unified militarily is something that we've kind of like discouraged because Germany will ultimately become the leader of that army.

And there are some historical things there that we don't. want to repeat. But there's also the larger question also of Five Eyes and how that relationship is going to work because we're talking right now about the Europeans filling the void that we leave in Ukraine. But if we really are completely out, I mean, how does that affect the Five Eyes relationship and our European partner's ability to collect intelligence? Sure, sure. And so just for kind of the background for your listeners. The Five Eyes is this incredible, you know, a decades-long partnership between the U.S., England, the UK, Canada, New Zealand, Australia. And it is an intelligence sharing relationship in which we share things such as human intelligence. That's, you know,

reporting from our spies on the ground. And then signals intelligence. That's the communications intercepts. And I think that on the signals intelligence side, there's been a lot written on this. There's there is interoperability in the sense of like the U.S. and the UK share systems. It's very hard to break that. I don't know how you, you know, how that gets broken apart because the NSA, national security agency, that's our outfit, and the GCHQ, that's the British one, are in essence one. And so breaking that is going to be difficult where I think, I think it's already happening

for sure because I talk to my especially old friends in the British security establishment, you know, if I get them, you know, drunk a little bit, admit this to me. On human intelligence, that's a choice. And so when British version of Russia House, and I know you've had former Russia House folks on the Team House, so when the British version of Russia House collects something based on their penetration of a member of Putin's inner circle, they have a choice. And in the past, they would share that with the United States. They would sanitize it, probably not tell us the identity of the source, but they would sanitize it to a degree, but still provide critical information. You have to remember for an intelligence service, they have a

sacred duty to their agents, to the sources to keep them alive. And so I don't think anyone in their right mind in the British Security Service right now is going to say, hey, we can share this stuff with the Americans like we used to. And what you'll see is there won't be a stated policy of it because that would risk the wrath of Trump, but they will just slowly ratchet this back. And I've talked to numerous British officials on this. And they say that's exactly what is happening. You just will never know until you wake up one morning and you're like, you know, we don't get the same kind of stuff from our counterparts. And I'll tell you, no CIA officer would say that they don't understand what the British are doing.

Because, again, you have a sacred duty to your asset, to your agent to keep them alive. And the U.S. cannot be trusted now, not only with, you know, you know, dopes in charge, sorry, of the U.S. intelligence apparatus, but also the notion that we have, in essence, switch sides to Russia. You know, the one thing, Jack, that I want to throw out to you, this will be a fun exercise. Because if we had this discussion three months ago, so many of the things that we would be saying, we would have said, well, we'll never do that. We'll never fire officers of the CIA. We'll never withhold, you know, intel or military aid. We'll never gut the VA because that's insane. So one of the really interesting things is if you look at, let's even get, you know, move forward, U.S. pulling out of NATO.

the U.S. telling the Chinese you can have Taiwan. I mean, I think there are some things that in the past we would have said are absolutely beyond the pale we would never do. I think we should consider because when people, you know, call me up and say, you know, well, Trump will never, you know, just declare himself, you know, emperor and run for a third term. I'm like, I don't know. I mean, you know, nothing is sacred anymore. So what are your thoughts on that?

And what are some of the things that in the past you'd say can never happen that perhaps could happen now. Yeah, I mean, I totally agree. I mean, we have to get over that, that hurdle that we have mentally of, you know, that could never happen or that shit doesn't happen here. We need to get over that real fast because it is happening. And yeah, throughout just my life, you know, relatively short period of time historically, a bunch of things that would never happen actually happened. I mean, everything from Brexit to the 2016 election of Donald Trump. I mean, all these things we were told repeatedly would never happen took place. So I think that, yeah, we're moving in a direction that is more authoritarian.

You're right to point out that some of these things can't just be undone. You know, if we pull out of NATO, it's not the same as us like renaming Fort Bragg every four years. Like there's a little bit more to it than that. But I think that, you know, when I make this argument, I'm at it, I feel like I'm at a disadvantage because quite frankly, making this sort of argument for international cooperation is not as compelling as the America First argument. It's saying fuck all these other people out there. They're taking our money. They're cheating us. And we get nothing for it.

I admit, my argument is not as sexy. or as compelling as their America First argument is, even though I feel that it's really America last, that our partnerships are of vital strategic necessity for us. And, you know, our enemies acknowledge that. That's why the Chinese and the Russians and others are always trying to attack our alliances around the world. Well, you're right.

Mark, can I say something about the America first thing? And I agree. It's like an easy rebuttal to what you're saying in terms of like being involved, internationally and like giving aid or whatever. The problem is America first doesn't happen. Our quality of life is not better.

You're telling me even if we pulled out and we cut our budget in half in terms of defense and foreign aid and we saved $500 billion or a trillion dollars that something would happen for the regular middle class person that's struggling day to day to pay rent, to pay for groceries, to do all the things that they need to do to just live a fucking life.

If you were talking to, me maybe I'd be a little bit more on the America first side. If they were like, you know what, we're going to save money from here and we're going to give you guys some type of affordable or universal health care that's quality that the rest of the world has. Basic things that people should deserve. Then I'd be like, you know what? I'm kind of on their side too, but I've yet to fucking see it. The only people I see benefiting are the robber barons, whether it's those mosque deal. Correct.

If I was a hedge fund manager or a significant shareholder in a big company, yeah, I'd be loving it too. But I'm not. They might not be loving it much longer seeing the way the stock market's going. Right. Yeah. So this is my Jersey blue class, you know, upbringing right here. You know, I just went to see Dropkick Murphys, by the way, in concert. I think I told you guys that.

Yeah. It's awesome. That's like the new resistance. We're actually, I was talking to Adam Kinsinger. Like, we want to get like a Dropkick Murphy's, you know, resistance concert form. But one of the things that I, you know, the amount of grift that is going on is stunning. I guess the American people don't care that you can go and, you know, pay a million bucks to have dinner with Trump or this golden visa where for $5 million, anybody including a Russian oligarch can now get citizenship. I mean, it's just it's one thing after another where kind of the blue collar guy and gal, the middle class, is not being advantaged whatsoever.

And, you know, how about the tariffs? The tariffs are going to crush the working class. So the whole thing is just, you know, preposterous. in terms of, you know, I didn't do that well in economics in college, but I'm, you know, I know a thing or two. It just doesn't even make sense, you know, with economics. But I think one of the things to look for is what I thought was kind of interesting is these town halls. People are kind of pushing back to the point where there was a kind of a directive from the Republican leadership in the House saying, don't do them anymore. Well, if you can't face your constituents,

I mean, from the Republican campaign committee, which is like you go to the town hall to try and, you know, make some money and raise some money. Indeed. And, you know, if you look at, again, I'm going to quote the American Enterprise Institute, AI, that's a think tank in the United States. That is certainly not, you know, the abation of progressive liberalism. It is a conservative think tank. And in their study on Ukraine aid on 150 plus billion, you know, a huge majority of that actually went to defense. contractors, which who do what, they employ American citizens. And so it actually, the aid to Ukraine is excellent for the U.S. economy. Now, you can make the whole argument like, oh, my God, this is the military industrial complex, blah, blah, blah. But ultimately, the American worker is benefiting from our aid package to Ukraine. And so I think that's the way you kind of, and by the

way, most of these jobs are in red states. And so that's the way, that's the retort. You say, well, well, we're giving all this crap to Ukraine. I said, yeah, but your brothers and sisters down the street and, you know, in Alabama, have a job because of it. Well, yeah, you want to talk about bringing jobs back to the United States. I mean, the war in Ukraine brought back the artillery shell manufacturing based to the United States. I mean, we made them all along, but we ramped up production, like, drastically opening up a number of new facilities to do that. And a lot of Americans, they don't understand that, you know, how foreign military sales

in general work. And it is a little scary when you, you know, hear about it because it does sound like a military industrial complex. But the larger point is that when we give this military aid to a foreign country, Israel, Egypt, Ukraine, whatever, we're not just like giving them money. And we're not just sending them war material. We're basically giving them monopoly money and saying, hey, you have $5 billion. You can spend it on whatever American defense, you know, weaponry you want. And so that money never even leaves the United States. Yeah, it's like store credit.

Yeah, it goes, it goes to the United States arms manufacturers in American jobs, as you point out. In red states. In red states. And then that, that war material is sent over to Israel, Egypt, Ukraine, wherever. So, yeah, I mean, it's important to understand that. Hey, I got to, let me just, let me switch topics just because something was on my mind. that was that was what came up last night in the president's address and that's uh that uh obviously in an operation run by the intelligence community um and with the help of the pakistani government uh it looks

like we're going we're about to we're are extraditing one of the masterminds of the abbey gate bombing at uh hk i at hammond karsai airport if you remember 13 american marines not not all marays oh sorry and and then some other uh folks as well from i think uh Navy and the Army were killed in a suicide bomb attempt. But so President Trump makes these remarks yesterday. A couple of things on that. And then, of course, you see all this stuff on social media, which I have to stop reading, from the FBI director, from the CIA director, et cetera, et cetera,

from people around the Trump National Security apparatus saying, this is Trump. He did this. Again, so we take an event which I support, of course, which is the apprehension and extradition of a terrorist. And we fuck it up. And this is how, because number one, this operation, a high value target operation, takes months, if not years, to germany. It's intelligence driven.

The agency was following this individual. It's been out in the press already. And when, you know, when we finally get them on the X, we can do a couple things. We can, you know, conduct a drone strike, call in a J-Soc brothers and sisters, or go to Pakistani liaison for help. And that's what we, that's what they did. They went to the Pakistanis and they captured them. this has nothing to do with whoever's in power.

And literally the, you know, the Secretary of Defense and others were saying, this is a victory for Trump. We made this a priority to get the perpetrators of Abbey Gate once we got into power. And that is utter and complete bullshit because this operation has been going on for months and months. This was a high value target. Everything is intel driven. And to compound all that, then Trump goes out and says in the state of the union, thanks to the government of Pakistan,

who right now is having a fucking aneurysm because if you understand Pakistani domestic politics, it goes like this. We'll help you, but please don't tell anybody about this. So now we've screwed up a relationship that if we're trying to rebuild with Pakistan on CT, which has always been strained. Now it's kind of gone down the shitter.

It reminds me the Soleimani strike of several years ago. Righteous strike, killed a really bad guy. But then Trump has to brag about it. So there's this inability of this, and every administration is going to try to take credit. But in particular here, saying that chest-stumping, saying that this was a priority of Trump, that's just total bullshit. This is based on dogged work by the intelligence community following a high-value target for years. And it finally comes to fruition. And I know this because this is what I did for a living for years and years.

And it doesn't matter who's in power. You get the guy in the X, you figure out a way to bring him to justice. Either kinetic strike, maybe put, you know, J-Socke. on the ground or you go to liaison for assistance. But they take they like taking curtain calls even when they don't. It's just, it drives when you crazy. No, every president does this.

Sure. But at the same time, like you could probably do it in a better way where you don't expose or kind of like expose your allies in terms of the people that helped you. Because Pakistan and the Americans intelligence sharing has kind of been

a tale of two fucking faces, right, for the last 20 years, right? So this literally it's been called the Trump operation. And I'm just like, oh, my God. And it's, you know, anyway. There's like this interesting, like, desire for instant gratification right now. And people talk about, oh, he's a businessman. And, you know, it's transactional, but transactional's not bad.

You know, there's a give and take. Like, okay, I get that. But when you're really just looking for, like, short-term successes and victories that you can tout in the media, you're sacrificing the, deferred gratification, the long-term strategic successes. Especially when in South Asia right now at the rise of ISIS-K, and I'm sure you've had guests on talking about this, you know, ISIS-K is probably the biggest threat to U.S. interests at this point as a kind of classic old terrorist group, not so old.

But we need that we need all of our allies assistance because we have no boots on the ground. We have no eyes or ears in Afghanistan anymore. And so the Pakistanis, as much as I find them completely irritating as I was subject to multiple 107mm rockets, fired by the government of Pakistan at my base in Afghanistan. I've talked to you about that story before the Pakistanis and AQ were kind of shooting at us. But ultimately, Pakistan would be an intelligence partner that's worth investing in again, if we can in some fashion. but but kind of thanking them globally. It's not something to package to any government.

Because domestically, it's that, no, now they're going to be on kind of under the gun. Anyway, that was just kind of something this morning with all this kind of chest thumping that they're doing. And it's a great CT success. The other, and but again, what I find this administration and others are guilty to other administrations, but. And I've criticized by the administration when they did stupid stuff like this. but the idea that somehow this is the, you know, the political masters kind of taking credit for this is ridiculous. I mean, there's a lot of work in the intelligence community and military that probably

went into, well, I'm sure went into this. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure they've been looking into this since that day in August of 2021. Again, it's not like, you know, so the press reports were like, you know, CI director said on his first day, this is going to be a priority, except it was a priority on his, you know, the day before he got there because, you know, conceivably my old colleagues have been working on this. again, it's high value target operations

don't just kind of come from the snap of a finger. He didn't walk into a 7-Eleven and somebody called the cops and they got him. Right. You know what I mean? Like that's what it sounds like. Right. And so just, you know, again,

it's just, you kind of just. Something that's breaking right now, I guess, in a response to the tariff stuff, Chinese embassy. If war is what the U.S. wants, be it a tariff war, a trade war,

or any other type of war, ready to fight to the end. Great. If you're China, right, and you see what's going on with Ukraine, and obviously there's a different relationship between a bit of a different relationship between Trump and Xi and Trump and Putin. And you see that America's going to probably invest in like our own U.S. made manufacturing chips, the chips that are like the high end chips. Well, that's what he says. Yeah. Right.

If you're Taiwan or you're China, I'd be freaking out if I'm Taiwan and I'm licking my chop. and I'm licking my chops if I'm China if they were really serious about taking Taiwan. So Bill Burns, who was the CI director, obviously before Radcliffe said in a speech a couple of maybe a year or so ago that 2007 would be when the U.S. assessed China would be ready to invade.

And I will tell you that we're basically given him a green light. You know, we are not going to stand by Taiwan as an ally. We're not going to put U.S. lives at risk. And I think Trump, again, we'll see this as some kind of weird transactional thing. But if I were the Taiwanese, I'd be crap in my pants. And let me say alongside that, if we were to come to the aid of Taiwan in defense of Chinese invasion, we would have to have a significant U.S. military buildup. And right now they're cutting the Department of Defense.

Now, there's a whole other issue on that, you know, whether you believe in kind of a defense buildup or not. But DOD right now, I don't think is configured to fight a war against China. And the defense budgets with this kind of cost cutting, this doge cost cutting, are not going to reflect that as well. But I think our allies would be very well served to look elsewhere. That pains me to say that. By the way, I'm getting texts right now from a good friend of ours who should be on the show. Are you really? Nick Mulroy is asking that shit that's going on.

So, you know, what the hell? He should be on with us right now. That's so funny. I think he might have texted me also. I didn't get in a second when I get off here. I said, hey, we're just talking about you. Yeah, he texted me. me too, texting the group chat.

Tell him, we are on air mocking his absence. You're not being in. Anyhow. Yeah. I mean, I guess, you know, one of the things that, you know, Jack, you know, for you to think about, too, based on your, you know, your experience in the military is, you know,

what do you think, or I'm curious, what do you think people in the 75th Ranger Regiment or in the Green Berets are thinking now about this kind of this abandonment of an ally. And I will say that more than likely, just like the officers of CIA in the paramilitary world, probably those in SF as well are generally pretty conservative. But I would think that they're bothered by us walking away from an ally that they spent a lot of time with. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I can't say that I have my finger on the pulse necessarily.

across the board, but I think there's going to be a range of opinions, but probably the predominant one is going to be leaning towards your point, being upset about some of these partnerships dissolving that they put a lot of hard work into, even if they are, you know, whatever their politics are, I mean, it's still, you know, impacting their mission. So I think from purely a professional standpoint, some of them are going to have problems with what's going on. So think about this, Jack. All right. So you're still back in.

You're in the military. We've decided your career in journalism is done and you're going back in. You're like the new chairman of insurance staff. You're leaving your cafe lattez in Brooklyn and your, you know, your poetry readings. I ain't fucking leaving. And you're back in there. But on a serious note, if you were in an ODA right now and let's say you are aware, I'm going to make this up in, you know, working with the Philippine government on their counterinsurgency.

You know, at some point, someone on the, on the, you know, one of our allies is going to say, hey, thanks for your assistance right now. But, you know, can we count on you all? Because we're looking at what you did in Afghanistan. We're looking what you did in Ukraine. How can we? And so the question for you would be, what is your, what is your response to that? And I just say that because, you know, there's the, there's the, there's the. s-f slash case officer model of, you know, case officering or schmoozing your partner, but they're not stupid. Yeah. So, you know, so how do you address that? Well, I mean, I've seen it and I've been in the room for it a number of times, including in the Philippines, actually. And I mean, the answer to the question is, I mean, you're going to give them the party line, which is the United States government stands

shoulder to shoulder with the Republic of the Philippines. We're in this, they're we have the greatest commitment to this country blah blah blah blah blah but as we point out yeah they're not stupid at all and they're looking across the table at you like hmm okay yeah and uh and so as a a military professional you're put in a very challenging position there where it's like you kind of like have to walk into the room and lie yeah at that point and that's not a great feeling i think for most soldiers uh to talk to an ally like that um but it exists. Yeah. I mean, you could say, hey, we're going to be here until we're not. I have a funny story. I was up in northern Iraq with the Kurds in 2002, December of 2002,

before the invasion. And I was obviously that, you know, what is it now, 2025. So that was 23 years ago. I was much younger and younger in my career. And I remember giving a senior Kurdish official that rah-rah bullshit U.S. speech about promoting democracy. And literally, he said, stop. He said, we said, we. have been betrayed by everybody. He said we've been betrayed by the Iranians, the Iraqis, you know, the Israelis, United States, the French, everyone under the sun. So he's going to stop with the bullshit. And I said, okay. That was it. Because, again, because our liaison partners are smart. And so perhaps one of the things that, you know, that notion of the bright, shining city on the

hill, that kind of speech ain't going to cut it anymore. And it's much more transactional. Hey, we're here to help with you right now. You know, I'm happy to do this. The problem is, of course, and what I'm sure you're seeing amongst the paramilitary crowd at CIA, remember, they have been with the Ukrainian since 2014. I know this. You've reported on this. One of the, one of the before I left as ops chief over Europe and Eurasia is, you know, it was, and that was before the Russian invasion, was, you know, investing in this relationship. And so there's going to be some pissed off, you know, you know, paramilitary officers, I would imagine, SF as well, just because it's impossible not to. If you make repeated trips over years to Ukraine, that means you break bread with these people.

You know about their families. You know about people who've been killed. Maybe their families have been raped and murdered. Maybe they've had, obviously, they've had members of their unit killed in action, the Ukrainians. It's just a human reaction for a U.S. national security professional to get close to their liaison partner. And so I think there's going to be some, you know, just as the Afghan withdrawal was traumatic, I think there's going to be some pissed off people here now saying, well, hold on a second.

I just spent 10 years investing in this partnership. I know Sergei or whoever it is. Like, these are my brothers and sisters. And the other thing is Ukraine was a, Ukraine Russia was a David versus Goliath fight. Like this was, we talked about it last time. This was the moral clarity that we didn't have in the 20-year G-Wod, which went all sideways after a while. It was an actual just cause. You know what I mean?

It's interesting. There is a smaller parallel. I mean, what's going on now is unprecedented, I think, but a smaller parallel would be during the Nixon administration. Nixon saw the CIA as part of the deep state. Like, they're against me. And he made a bunch of cuts to CIA that actually came into effect during the Carter administration. And my point there is that there's like this sort of like story.

There's some mystique around it even about all these laid off CIA officers who went into the private sector. And from there, it was like the Wild West for these guys. And it's going to be interesting to see where this generation of, you know, disenfranchised intelligence officers end up. I mean, some of them will end up working for the Europeans, the Australians, you know, things like that. Some of them might just go over to the other side. I mean, especially if that's our new national policy. There was a report a few days ago saying that Russia and China are turning their eyes towards the people that have been let go to see if they could.

Yeah, of course they are. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, think about it. So first of all, one of the, you know, as someone else, someone, a retort would be, well, well, fuck those people. If they're going to go spy for Russia or China, you know, they didn't deserve to be, you know, they're not great Americans. But that's not how the intelligence business works. What I'm concerned about is the, I'll call it the link.

model is that they will be commercially recruited. Now, the Chinese and the Russians are all over LinkedIn. And so someone who has just been let go from the U.S. intelligence community with the T.S. clearance who has a mortgage and doesn't have health care is going to get an email and saying, I'm a Dubai-based consultant. And I would love your assistance on X, Y, and Z. And it's totally done commercially. And people are going to bite at that. And that's going to be the modus operandi of the Russians and the Chinese and going after our folks. It's not, you know, Vladimir from the Russian consulate coming up to someone. It's a commercial recruitment.

And people are going to be desperate because you just are tossing out people with T.S. clearance, top secret clearances who have bills to pay. I mean, one of the amazing things is when we advise other countries on stuff like this, on a purge of the security services, this is the exact thing we say don't ever do. And this, of course, is what we did in Iraq with debathification. If you put several thousand angry, you know, former security service members out in the street, they're going to turn on you. And so I just think that there is a big counterintelligence concern.

And it's not, again, someone walking into a Russian embassy. It's someone responding to a commercial recruitment. And they, you know, and it's going to be over time, but they're going to get wooed by some Dubai-based or Singapore-based entity to end up providing intelligence. That is, I mean, that, you know, my former, my friends in the FBI literally are writing me signal messages saying this is a problem right now. Yeah. A little bit, a couple things to look out for for tomorrow.

I think March, I think it's tomorrow, March 6th. The European Parliament's going to vote on a big aid package, 800 bill. Yep. So we will see if the Europeans do step up. Hopefully they do. Dee Kallas, who is the EU foreign policy chief. She said we need to have a new leader of the free world now. America is no longer the leader.

I mean, that to me, these are devastating statements. It might not be wrong. I mean, it's kind of crazy how, you know, that role right now for the time being is being filled by Zelensky. I mean, this guy in Ukraine who he's standing up to both Russia and the United States at the same time. I mean, it's got some balls. The idea that he was supposed to apologize for that Ovaloffal meeting, I think is so patently

ludicrous. Again, I'm going to piss off a lot of people who might listen to this. But what I said on the air the other day is, you know, those who demanded apology from Zelensky, those who are screaming at him for, quote, disrespecting the president, which I think is ludicrous. I've seen the clip a million times. I think it was totally set up. And J.B. Vance was acting like this little yappy terror, a terrier attack dog. Nothing against terriers for the dog-loving viewers. But anyone who says that Zelensky must apologize, that is actually a tacit admission that our president is a.

a petulant toddler who has to be handled with kid gloves. If you're the President of the United States and you have a far ahead of state come, they can have a frank discussion. But Trump is acting like a mafia don. His skin is paper thin too. It's paper thin. And so people who say, well, Zelensky mishandled this are actually admitting that Trump is a toddler who can't handle any type of criticism. I mean, to me, a great leader is someone who will sit there and have a discussion with someone. and you're going to have opposing views. And that whole exchange, even though it should never have been in public, the right retort would have been, you know, President Zelensky, your passion is so admirable.

You know, we'll continue this discussions later. Yeah, that's not happening from Trump, man. Right, but I'm saying, but the fact that it can't be is an admission of his, you know, narcissistic, sociopathic personality. And again, that he's a toddler who just, you know, you know, he cannot handle any type of criticism. So Lindsey Graham, the senator, when he throws a fit afterwards in a press conference saying, you know, Zelensky mishandled this. You're admitting he mishandled it because Trump is, you know, is such a kind of this flawed individual. Well, Lindsay Graham's a mutant.

Like he just goes however the wind flows. You know, like a week before that, he was on stage with Zelensky praising him, right? At Munich, yes. Yeah. So you also saw Secretary Rubio right after tweet, like Trump did the right thing for America. Meanwhile, he looks like he's about to get a colonoscopy when he's sitting down in the Oval Office. But that's what I was saying before about how I think this country's changing in some ways that people haven't really wrapped their heads around. And this like cult leader following is not a healthy direction.

I mean, again, it's, it is amazing to me. You know, Marco Rubio has been someone who's been a champion of human rights. He's very well respected in the Senate. Obviously, Cuba is a huge priority for him. But if you are anti-Cuban, you are just by definition ingrained in your freaking DNA anti-Russian. If Cuban Russia are the same thing. And the fact that he is kind of signed on to this. I mean, there's an article in Vanity Fair yesterday.

Yeah, I saw it. Which talking that Rubio is kind of upset about his lack of influence. I mean, if he had honor, he'd resign. Now, everyone thought he wouldn't last a year. But he wants to be president. He wants to run for president is what he wants. Well, I mean, it's just, I mean, you know, these people have to be able to wake up and look at themselves and their children, you know, in the eye. But, you know, but again, I was, you know, I have kind of this, Jack, I know you kind of like this stuff.

I have friends in like in the Cuban exile community down in Miami who, who, you know, I was talking to them yesterday. And they were big fans of Rubio. And I'm like, well, hold on a second. What's happened to him? Like, this is something's not right here. He's supposed to be anti-Cuban. That means anti-Russian. And he's not signing on to that.

So we'll see if these people who've kind of signed out of the cult ever kind of get a spine. But even, you know, Mike Waltz, same thing, former Green Beret. Just, you know, they're kind of bending the knee to Trump. And I find it. I've heard that Rubio and Waltz are both on the way out. They should be. They should resign. I mean, being, being fired. Yeah. Yeah.

I've heard those things too, but who knows. And, you know, it's, but, but ultimately, you know, you have to be able to kind of look at yourself in the mirror. But this is, this is a cult. And this is, this is a country that is now tilted completely to Moscow. And that just is inconceivable. And that's why I said before that, you know, you said, what's the reaction inside the old, the ICS? It's just, it's disorienting. That's, I mean, you know, what are we doing?

And the other part of this too, and I know we're probably kind of coming to the end right now. There is, and I'm going to be, I'm going to be kind of hammered for this, but there's no bureaucracy going on right now. bureaucracy in national security at times is important. There's no national security council process. And Jack and Dee, you know, you know the way this works is things come to fruition at lower levels. You have meetings at the NSC, then it goes up to the deputies committee, which is maybe, you know, with deputies of different cabinet levels are there. chaired by the national security advisor. Then there's a principals committee where the president might sit with the various cabinetists. None of this is happening now. These guys sit in the oval

and kind of, they are totally winging it. And so, you know, my friends in government were like, literally the freeze in U.S. aid to Ukraine, people, all the national security reporters down the Pentagon who sit in the Pentagon said their Pentagon contacts didn't know. I mean, we're winging it. And so that actually makes it challenging in the media because you don't even know what's happening half the time. There's no people to even tell you that things are going on because they're finding out literally real time. And that's not the way to do really smart, effective policy. You don't want a 400 man, when women, NSC, like President Obama had, which is then stultifying. But you don't want nothing.

And my friends of mine who have been down to the White House recently, I mean, it's empty. The NSC's not staffed yet. The State Department's not staffed yet. We are winging foreign policy right now. Probably not a smart idea. Oh, brother. I don't understand why I never feel good about the end of these shows. Every show we do.

No, not with you, just at you, Mark. I'm saying, like, even though ones we do on the weekends with Mick and Andy and Jason, it's like, fuck, what about a feel-good story? I guess there isn't one. Mark, where can they find you? until I get kicked off. I'm still on Twitter at M Polymer. I've actually decided to go back

on a Twitter full force because it's fun fighting with all the magaloons. But there are a couple people that kind of have normal dialogue with. I'm on blue sky as well, whatever the whole blue sky thing is. And then I'll be on, you know,

I'm on TV all the time. I think I was on MSNBC 15 times last month, but mostly on at 5 a.m. on way too early, which, Hey, I'm old. I get up now early anyway. Jack Murphy, We Defy. The link is in the description.

Mark's links are also in the description. Check them out. Mark's cooking something up to you in the podcast world. So I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, yeah. And get some merch. You know what Mark just said? I love it.

Incredible T-shirt. So the link is in the description there. And the best way to support the show is Patreon.com slash the teamhouse. You get ad-free episodes, both audio and video for both eyes on and the now so two for the price of one. If you join it at $10 level, I myself will send you one of these

patches at the $10 level. So support the show, please. One good thing for you guys is that with this is not a good thing for America, but maybe for the show is with the flu of retirements and people getting fired, you're going to have some new guests coming on. There's that, yeah.

That's yeah, I guess that's good. That's good. thanks guys i will always keep referring people over to you so appreciate that mark