The Team House - Former Green Beret & Army Ranger Tells All | EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

We’re joined by Jack Murphy today former Green beret and Army Ranger.Jack’s workhttps://thehighside.substack.comSupport the show on Patreon:⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouseNew merch, patches, and stickers! ⬇️https://theteamhouse-shop.fourthwall.comFind Mick Mulroy here: Fogbow ⬇️https://fogbow.com/Lobo Institute ⬇️https://www.loboinstitute.org/Twitter ⬇️https://x.com/mickmulroy?s=21&t=-Ze3F_Ix2vlJ18KFvORTCALinkedIn ⬇️https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-patrick-mulroy-31198b52/Bluesky ⬇️https://bsky.app/profile/mickmulroy.bsky.socialMick’s publications ⬇️https://www.loboinstitute.org/publications/publications-of-michael-mick-patrick-mulroy/Find Andy Milburn here: Twitter ⬇️https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fandymilburn8LinkedIn ⬇️https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmilburn2023Substack ⬇️https://amilburn.substack.com/Andy’s book ⬇️https://www.amazon.com/When-Tempest-Gathers-Mogadishu-OperationsBluesky ⬇️https://bsky.app/profile/andy-milburn.bsky.socialFind Jason Lyons here: LinkedIn ⬇️https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-lyons-666873316?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_appBluesky ⬇️https://bsky.app/profile/bgsilverback73.bsky.socialBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

Now I see what Dimitri has to deal with every day doing this show. And it's just one of them. This is just one of them. Okay? There's two others. No wonder why you're trying to Shanghai me into doing that. Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Aizan geopolitics.

I'm here with Andy Milberg, Jack Murphy, myself, Dimitrikan. I wish we could have recorded what we were talking about beforehand, but we're not going to put that out. Not yet anyway. So stay tuned. What's that? More coffee, less commies. Look at that. Jack's fucking.

representing you know who gave me this was uh jason lyons okay shout out so it works yeah yeah it's all connected oh so mine must be in the mail hey you got to he must be sent it to the u.s address that's the only reason i haven't received it yet you got to put in your face time andy i'm uh i'm going to jason's house for a memorial day barbecue on saturday as am i right i will also be attending yeah yeah he's a great guy being geographically separated from the core group, I think it explains a lot. The satellite office.

Why I'm an outsider, I mean, trying to figure this out. Yeah, right. I mean, mixed geographies in the other side of the country. He's in Montana. It's a British accent that really casts you out.

Yeah, too limey. You're not going to a barbecue in Montana. In Montana? No, no. Jersey, bro. Jersey, Jersey. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Jason's in Jersey by Mixing Montana.

Yeah, yeah. Montana, I've met Mick out in Montana, out in a whitefish. It's beautiful out there. Andy's been to whitefish. He was on that stuff show. That's right. That's right. Yeah, so what was that called?

Clear it hot, right? Cleared hot with Andy Stump. Yeah, Jack was on that. Dave was on that. So quick plug for our viewers. Turn off this one and go to Clear Heart. And Google me, Jack or Dave. and watch a really good quality podcast.

Yeah, who set those up, man. What a great producer. Yeah, it was Dee. Don't worry. You're going to get plenty of stroking during this show. I better. You get to that at a moment. That's contractually obligated in this show.

Montana was a completely new experience for me in a good way. I mean, the only problem is it's a long way away from the ocean. That's number one why I just couldn't be there. And number two, it's got that. that I don't know whether you felt this way, Jack, but there's a feeling about it as though something really bad's about to happen. You know, like, why? It's just the wide open spaces and like desolation of it.

And I mean, for me, I think it's like coming from New York City, I live in Brooklyn. And whenever I make like, when I go to a place like Montana or Iceland, like just like the loneliness of it like really hits hard. And then you experience it again when you come back home like, holy shit, there's so many people here. This is crazy. You see, I could not live in New York. I just couldn't live with that many people around me.

But I think Montana, I think it was yeah, partly that and partly, you know, the people are kind of, I mean, they're very nice, but kind of creepy. There's a lot of militia-looking people. A lot of ZZ top beards. Yes. Just something really bad is going to happen. But

I can see why like most of them are preppers and stuff and survivalists kind of. There were towns I drove through over there that looked like something right out of the set of a Wild West movie. It sounds wild. You know what? I get that kind of same feeling of anxious, like anxiety when I go to, I'm sorry, Andy, but when I go to fucking Tampa, I get that for it. Well, not Tampa proper, like in the city, but when, like, you're out there, you go, like, my family in Tarpon Springs and stuff.

And you're driving there. And it's just, like, flat and fucking highway. and Wawa, Starbucks, 10 miles, Wawa, Starbucks. All these housing communities that help

they all have cute names like Hidden Grove. Yeah. You know, there is some truth in that. And I don't attribute these comments purely to the fact

that I knock Brooklyn with, you know, every time that I'm on. Every episode. That's also contractually obligated. There is something

concerning about Florida too. And again, it's probably the flatness. and the flatness gets me and florida man who is a truly uh a species all by himself there should be like a david attenborough fucking documentary about the florida man i've heard tell me that like central florida like inland and the central part of the state that it like really hasn't changed since the civil war yeah i can i can believe that i mean i've driven

from where we are up to tallahassee and i mean it's beautiful countryside but yeah Yes, it is really, really rural. It's like nothing I have seen before. I had a wedding in Florida last year in Marathon, Florida. And like if you're a fisherman or, you know, you love the water and stuff, I understand why that's probably awesome for you. But I drove from Miami to Marathon and it's just one road. And once you get into these little towns where it's Marathon or whatever,

the eyes like you go along it's the same thing it's fucking it's trailer parks wowa starbucks trailer park wawa starbucks around that many trailer parks in florida you're making marathon in marathon they were yeah i mean it's not like north carolina what's the joke about you know what's uh what's the difference what's the similarity between a hurricane and a divorce in north carolina someone's going to lose a trailer home I mean, it doesn't, doesn't get it. But, you know, Florida feels like home right now.

I mean, I really don't. I mean, I'm not, I mean, I'm supposed to be in Saudi Arabia. So, yeah, I mean. So now you're itching to get back to Florida, I'm sure. I've met quite a, quite a few people that are kind of like you, Andy, that, you know, you've kind of served in the military and probably towards the tail end of your career, spent time down in Tampa at McDill and so on. And, like, really just took to it and settled down in there.

there are quite a few service members who find that that station to be kind of like the best kept secret in the army i guess or the marines in your case yeah hey did you go to softly no i didn't i was actually going to go but just decided i have other things going on um other events and stuff so i'm just prioritizing thing i'll probably go next year yeah yeah i uh you know i haven't been in in a few years actually you stayed at my place a couple years ago. I sure did. I was smoking cigars in your hot tub while you were gone. Yeah, I was finding all kinds of things floating in my hot tub. After that, but yeah, on, you know, on soft we come and benevolent about it. I, you know, I loved seeing the guys that I see, but this, this also that kind of distasteful part of it, and maybe I'm just being too picky and all these

kind of fat, loud contractors walking around. talking about the old times and, you know, the Hale fellow well met doing selfies for LinkedIn. And it just reminds me that, I don't know what it reminds me, but it does, you know, there's a camaraderie aspect of being in the military. But then there's kind of the, there's kind of the blowhard going on and on and telling story after story after story aspect of veterans that just balls me. Yeah. Sonseless, you know. Is shot show similar? shot show is like soft week and steroids it's like 10 times more insane um but you're you're right

you know like whether shot show or soft week i think they're both great events in the sense that like you will see dudes you served with that you haven't seen in like 17 years and it's like oh shit and that that's really awesome to like link up with all those people again but there is an aspect of like what you're talking about that like i won't say any names man but there's like one guy there and all he did was tell stories about Somalia. Every single person he talked to, every time he got up to say something or Somalia. It's like, dude, come on, bro. Like, you got to let it go at some point.

And they find a way to weave it into every single conversation. Yeah, yeah. You know, either a specific, the one time that they did a, you know, a combat deployment or just the fact that they were in the military and it's just. It's like, it's especially at an event like that, it's like, bro, we were all over there. Like, it's not. Exactly. Who cares? I know. It's like telling, yeah, I couldn't agree more. It's telling war stories over and over.

And, you know, on that note, speaking of all stories, and by the way, I do want to say for the benefit of any of our audience who is still left watching this, that Dee had a terrific show lined up. Incredible. And we sabotaged it at the last minute because we don't often get a chance to have the great Jack Murphy on the show. In fact, it's about once every three months. Seriously. Not true.

Not true. He comes on. It's about once every three months. When you guys are together, it's about one in every three months. And I can track it back. And there was one time that I missed in July of 2023. And I couldn't sleep for a week. And it was.

And I think because I was not on it and Jack was, we had like, you know, record viewing figures. Actually, you know, second highest record viewing figures. figures the highest viewing figures we ever had for eyes on and i think it's like almost 60,000 was when we had do you remember that we did the pia yeah yeah yeah with mic and mark the discussion with mick and uh mark p and and and mark p yeah hey guys it's jack i just want to talk to you for a moment about how you can support the show if you've been watching it enjoying it um but you'd like to get a little bit more involved and help us continue to do this you can check out our patreon it is patreon. patreon. It is patreon.com slash the Teamhouse.

And for $5 a month, you can get access to all of these episodes of the Team House ad-free. The same goes with our affiliated podcast, Eyes On, with Andy Milburn, Jason Lyons, Mick Mulroy. That one, you will also get all of those episodes ad-free. And you support the channel and the show, and we really appreciate it. The Patreon members are literally what has helped this company, this small business survive. especially during our early years, and you are what continues to help this thing going, even as we navigate the turbulent world of YouTube advertising. So we really appreciate all of you guys.

There's going to be a link down in the description to that Patreon page, and there is also going to be a link to our new merch shop. So if you guys want to go and get some Team House merchandise, we got stickers, and we also have patches. And I should mention, if you sign up for Patreon at $10 a month, month, we will mail you this patch as well. So we really appreciate that. But they're also for sale on the merch shop. And additionally, they got T-shirts up there, water bottles, tote bag, coffee mugs, all that good stuff. So please go and check them out and support the show. We really appreciate it,

guys. Thank you. Yeah, that was big. But I, you know, with Jack brings that stark quality. So back to the topic. You can touch our tips. I have two of the creators and the lead men of the team house, actually one of them behind the scenes and Jack. And I really want to hear some stories from the team house, having being a victim of many of your stories of the team house. We almost destroyed 80's career. Destroyed my career, certainly my confidence, lost me friends,

and it had a catastrophic effect on my life. but I would. Stop. Did you really? Come on. Come on. Of course it's true. To you, yeah.

That's the reverse. That's the inverse of the team house. I still remember. Yeah. And I don't want to even mention the episode because people are going to go back to it. And then it's all going to start again. But yes, the fact that you were forcing. And I do want to just say again, publicly, that I had just flown from.

Yeah, you got you got fucked on that one. I agree with you. Yeah, we didn't get you. food pizza nothing yeah you can get me no it's a fucking food desert there by the way no the first time when a the second show when and the second show when and he takes off his shirt and flexes for everybody no no that was that was in our old studio that was in our old studio but that was the second time he's ever been on and he had flown in from fucking somewhere and i got pizza no we didn't get pizza and you guys got shit faced yeah but the other the subsequent times at the

new studio we've got we've made sure there's pizza there we did yeah I think that was a good idea because you poured whiskey down my throat. But actually, and I would never go back and look at that one episode, and I want to get off the topic of me on the Team House. But, you know, do you remember what I was talking about on that episode? I was talking about corruption. You know, first of all, I was risking my life for Ukraine, but I was saying, hey, you know, Ukraine has some problems to address.

One is corruption, and the other was the fact that neither side, was hands clean when it came to atrocities and mistreating prisoners and things like this. So, you know, that was my point and it became and it skyrocketed into this huge. Yeah. Also, the fact is like you weren't saying like, all the Ukrainians are taking scouts. It's like they were videoing POWs, right? And that is a war crime. And like, yeah, yeah.

And, but, but, you know, it just became. You know, I've thought about it a little bit. And I think that a lot of that reaction comes. from a lot of the war hysteria that was present at the time. And I think that after October 7, there's also a lot of war hysteria. After 9-11, there's a lot of war hysteria. But back to Ukraine, you know, when I ran that story about sabotage cells in Russia, like the amount of like jeers and pushback and anger and people calling me names and stuff, a lot of that is just because there's so much war hysteria and propaganda at the time that I was telling them something they didn't really

want to hear, I guess. But yeah, I will say I have a copy of Tim Weiner's new book around here that confirms the thesis of the story. That book will be out this summer. So people can read it that. It's pretty good. Also, cut to like 12 months or more later when the New York Times comes out with a similar story and they fucking do a victory lap, like they just broke the fucking story.

shout out to those rats if we're just if we're just talking here and doing improv like you know improvising and making jazz I'll call it out like Jack had that shit like in July of 22 four or five months after the invasion finally printed it out

after Rolling Stone fucked them and his fucked them over printed it out on New Year on Christmas Eve 22 so Rolling Stone had I'm not saying it Jack Rolling Stone had Jack go through like three or four months of editing, three or four months of fact checking.

You know, so that story had been fucking picked and prodded. They were, they were worried that they would release it, right? And then... So what happened was, I'll tell you, Jack, you can correct me if I'm wrong. So three or four months of picking and prodding,

editing, fat checking, do whatever they got to do. They go to the CIA for comment, right? And usually, like Jackie told me, it's like one or two days, max. you give them to give you a comment. They stole, they installed it. And some high up in the CIA,

I don't know if I should I say his name or not, I don't give a shit. It's a deputy director. Yeah, okay, calls up Jack's editor on the one hour where Jack isn't available to be on that fucking conference call and gives him off the record quotes and tries to make him change the story. Then the editor goes to Jack's like,

oh yeah, maybe we should change this stat, the other thing because of what this guy just told me off the record. And then they, instead of publishing the agency's denial and putting the story out as we had planned, they sat on it for like a week and a half and then, oh, what shows up in New York Times? Yeah. About like what's the guy's name's daughter?

Duggen's daughter that she got killed and how, oh, this was a Ukrainian rogue element. This had nothing to do with the United States, this, that, the other thing, like literally like a week later. Right. Okay. Yeah. The Russian, yeah. Yeah, that was deliberately to sabotage the story that I was writing on. Ha-ha, sabotage. Ha, get it. Because think about it, Jack, if it came out in Rolling Stone, like, that's a fucking huge story. Like, that's going everywhere because Rolling Stones, whatever and established media outlet. The outlet that brought McChrystal down. Right, right. I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on there. I'll just say that, I mean, it all kind of came out in the Washington. I think. And you wrote about it and released it on Substack, right?

And it did. No, on his own. I put it on my own blog. Um, and I ran it and I felt really good, you know, like times where I published something, and I felt really good about it. I published that thing Christmas Eve.

And then I drove up to my parents house afterwards and I had a smile on my face the entire trip. It was funny. Jack, I remember you text him. He's like, yeah, it's out. I'm like, what? Where'd you put?

He just fucking decided on Christmas Eve to just, throw it out there, which I don't blame you. It should have gotten out there fucking months before that. And some people thought it was part of some master plan. Like you're like you're gaming it because like you think no one's at work on Christmas. I'm like, no, dude. It's just like I'm not waiting any longer. And here it is. But I mean, the whole like backstory to all of that was just kind of like a learning experience. And it does leave you kind of like bitter because you realize is that like this whole like journalism thing, like from a national security perspective, for sure. If you think there's like these journalists out there at the New York Times or the Washington Post or these big outlets that are like looking out for you and like they're meeting with secret sources and underground parking garages and like diligently trying to get to the truth, that ain't happening.

That's not what they do. These these editors just want to get official leaks from the deputy commander. of this unit, the deputy director of that agency, and then publish it because it's the safest thing for them to do. It guarantees them that there's not going to be government pushback. They're going to have career progression. They're going to continue moving up the rungs. They get to pay their mortgage. They get to go home and watch Netflix. Everyone's happy, except for the American public that is basically completely lost faith in the press at this point. And I think a lot of it is because of this sort of acting as stenographers for, you know, the highest levels of

of the U.S. government. Yeah, I mean, that's a really good point. That was an excellent article, by the way, and I was glad to see it did well when you did release it. Yeah, thank you. And I, yeah, I do understand what you're saying about war hysteria, and that certainly certainly was gripping the nation at the time and continues to do so.

And there was also in kind of that, the land of the online media, just this undercurrent of quickly a volatile emotion, right? And even in the vet world, you know, you look at the vet bro thing and the back and forth on who, you know, it just seems like one icon after another is falling, is crumbling in front of us. And they each have supporters and detractors. And it's like proxy warfare online, right? Right. It's the vet for a cinematic universe, man. Yeah. It's because we don't have a war to fight, so now we fight each other.

Yeah. I know. It's like, you know, Tim Kennedy or Jocko, you know, they all, I mean, if you, you can name like half a dozen others, right, who have risen to great fame. And then Sean Ryan. Yeah, former comrades come out of the woodwork. And, I mean, it started with Dave. You just had dude who does all the fitness stuff. You can't kill me. Yeah. I mean, all of them. And it's just, it's bizarre. It really, really is. And it becomes such a, well, you guys have been involved in. We're part of the Vennbro Industrial Complex. For sure. We're there. Although I keep it at arm's length nowadays. I'm happy to let Nate and Jay and who are some of the other big ones out there. Nate Valhalla VFT. He does a lot of that. Jay Dorley. I kind of let those guys, I'll let those guys take that lane more than happy to let them deal with that.

But you know, they get insane amount, they get an insane amount of view as just doing this. People love drama. Yeah, it's low hanging fruit. But I mean, I'll tell you like, and this is interesting. Well, maybe your mileage may vary. But I've been out of the military for like 15 years now. So like the way people like when I see people like wanting to go back in time and like, like relitigate the military, the war, their career, whatever.

Like to me, it's like going back in time to like argue about Little League games that I played when I was seven years old. It's like, who fucking cares at this point? So you see, yeah, the Vet Bros Cinematic Universe and all these little cleaks and people fighting back and forth. And it's like, I don't give a shit, man. Like I'm going to go to a bar in Brooklyn with my girlfriend and have a drink now because like I'm a normal, well-adjusted man.

You know, like, have fun with that. Yeah, you think you were more into it, like, while you were doing soft rep and you were like, and you were closer to it. Yeah, I didn't have as much distance from it. So I was still like emotionally, I think wrapped up in all of it. And now, I mean, it's not that I don't like love the troops and I don't support special operations. I do. It's just I'm not like personally invested in it the way I was 15 years ago. I guess is what I would say.

Life moves on. And no, life moves on. I felt exactly the same way. And I think probably when I got out in 2019, I felt a little bit differently. The memories are very frank. But now I find myself, you know, around, I tend to work around people who were in the military.

And I just don't even have an interest in talking about things. Not that I, you know, I'm not pretending that I'm on that in the realm of the vet pro people. But I don't find an interest in talking about experiences from that long ago. They just seem almost irrelevant and they're locked into the past. I'd rather talk about other things and what is happening now. And, you know, on that note, and before Jack slips out of our lives for another, or my life for another few months. Yeah, I've got you guys here.

And I do want to talk about the team house. We started on that. A, because I think it's an awesome show, and that's not me just plugging it. I can pick up and watch any of your interviews regardless of who you're interviewing, and you've interviewed some very bizarre people, just because of the kind of the style and the fact that the way you guys interviewed them. But I've got to ask you, so best and worst experiences on the team house. So, I mean, let's start with the worst.

What was some of the most painful experiences? You know, the most weird or painful experiences are the ones that, like, nobody has ever seen because, like, something went awry. And there are quite a few, actually. But, I mean, I'm not trying to be melodramatic. Like, there's, I mean, there's the time, like, I took the train back to New York City to do this interview and this guy canceled on us. Like, as I was, like, walking into our office. Yeah. So I'm like.

It was like an hour out, an hour and a half. out you get stuff you get stuff like that i mean just that this week we had a fairly well-known former cia officer i had her scheduled for week months really i must have been six weeks or i was yeah yeah and uh i i hit her up yesterday because we were supposed to interview her today and i was like hey just to remind you we have this interview at this time blah blah blah and she's like oh sorry you know i i schedule i i scheduled the wrong date and now i have a another commitment for that time. I can't do the podcast now.

I'm really sorry. You know, let's work out another time. And I was like, okay, hey, shoot me some dates and we'll pick one. And she never got back to me. It's just like you get these people sometimes who like, they want to use you. Yeah. Like that's it.

There's no relationship there. They don't give you shit about you at all. They don't really care about the content of the show. It's like they want to promote themselves. And if they think that you can't do that adequately for them, then they don't give a shit. Another, this is kind of a funny story. Again, another interview that never happened. But we're like, we're closing in on, I think, like, what, 400 something, how many episodes do we have daily?

We're at 348. 348. Wow. So as you can imagine, I've spoken to, like, a lot of different people, a lot of different types of people, different personalities. and most of them I really like. There's one guy I was trying to, I was introduced to and told I should schedule a pretty well-known national security journalist.

Sounds like a great dude, great, great, you know, guest. Guy has a lot of experience in the Middle East. So we're emailing back and forth. He keeps losing the address to the office. Oh, yeah, this guy. My phone number.

He keeps, like, I'm going back and forth and back and forth with him. Like, it's like I'm talking to like emailing Mr. Magoo here. Finally, he wants to talk to me on the phone. And so the first time we get on the phone, he's asking me about like how to get to the office. And I'm pretty sure this guy is from the upper west side. He's asking me how to get to the office. And he starts asking me like, is it dangerous there, Jack? I'm like, dangerous. And in fucking Brooklyn? Like, like, what do you? And like we're going back and forth and I'm like hey bro didn't you like work from bagdad for like seven years or some shit like this and he's like oh well but this is different this is different all

i'm taking my spouse with me that goes on then he he wants to get back on the on the phone with me again like a week later i'm like okay we get on the phone and he's got more questions for me and he says jack in brooklyn do they have food there Like, bro, it's the largest borough in New York City. And you're asking me if they have fucking food there. Is this, like, are we serious right now? This is a grown ass man asking me this question. And then it gets even weirder.

He starts like going in like saying, he's like, so from your office, about how far a walk is it to the Hasidic community? And I'm thinking about it for a minute. I'm like, you know, they're all the time. I mean, we're not that far away. No, it's not that far. And I tell him, I'm like, I think that's probably about a 30 minute walk if you were to walk there. And he's like, okay, okay, okay.

It's like, I would really like to go and see them. I tried it when I was a young man in Israel, but it just didn't take. And I'd really like to go and see them. I'm like, what's going on here? Like, where are we? What is going on? Like, bro, you can hop on the train and go see the Hasidic community anytime you want. Anytime you want, yeah.

go go talk to them you know they'll talk to you uh you know we we i've rented places from them that's not a problem um i was just what that was the weirdest experience uh i've had with like trying to book somebody and then of course he canceled on us after all that like got scared of this whole thing got scared of hipsterville yeah we're literally we literally work in my editor needs me to work on a piece no one else can do it i got to go i got to go right now okay man instead of just saying, hey, I can't do it. It's bizarre, isn't it? Some people just cannot, they cannot say no.

Yeah. So I mean, for every one of those experiences, though, I have to say, there are another 10 to 15 where you contact somebody and they're like, Jack, really? Like, you want me to be on this show? Like, you've had all these amazing people on there. And they're so stoked to do it. Yeah. It's so excited to do it. And so you always have to keep in mind those, like, funny.

or bad experiences versus the good ones. And it's always many more good ones. You know, they're just incredible people I've gotten to meet. Yeah, I mean, have you had any, any standouts? Any, were there any kind of jaw-dropping moments where you're just like, someone said something and you didn't know how to follow up? Of course, you were very well, okay. Yeah, a couple.

One was when Greg Smith came on the show and was dropping bombs about Eric Prince. I was like, holy shit. Like, this guy's spilling the tea. Yeah. Another one was we had Eric Deming on this show. Yeah, that was crazy. He accused Jocko Willink of murdering someone on Target and around. And murdering a source.

Yeah, murdering a source. Just the first brown guy he saw with an AK, he just shot him. And I had no idea he was going to say that. Really? No, I had no idea. I knew we were going to talk about some like spicy Navy SEAL stuff. I did not know we were going there. I was like, holy shit.

Was there any fallout? Did he hear any fallout from that? No. Did they ever send him a cease and desist or anything like that? I haven't spoken to Eric in a few months, but the last time I spoke with him, no, nothing. Yeah. Because that made a, that had a mention on Eric Denning, what he said there on the show had a mention on. What was the one that you just mentioned, the Valhalla? Yeah. Yeah. No, he was on, he was on Jay Dorlius' Chronicles of a Green Beret. I think Nate probably talked about it too. Nate talked about it.

No, everyone's talked about it. I like, so I've watched some of the ones. I like the fact that you bring in a collectic characters from overseas and you've gone through. So, for instance, you've gone through the whole pantheon of SAS dudes. And the Brits, the Brits have, you know, the SAS has, like they, they are media stars, right, once they get out more so than anyone you can name. in Delta. I mean, you're talking about guys like Phil Campion. Phil, I know Bill. Yeah. Or Peter McAlees. By the way, you brought on, like Peter McAlees was kind of one of the, he's not so well known. But his story was astonishing.

I mean, he was involved. He was the older generation of SAS. He was involved in that mercenary thing in Angola, the mercenary trials. And who was the guy, Colonel Callan, who was a former British. Yes, psychopath, former British para had been discharged from the parrars and was running a mercenary unit in Angola on behalf of, gosh, I can't remember his name. Joshua, am I getting, was he fighting against you, Nita? they were fighting. I'm pretty sure they were with the MPLA fighting against.

No, no, no. They must have been you need a fighting against the MPLA who were the communists. There's a third group called Fenla, which broke up right around that same time where Bacon, George Bacon, a former Mac V. Saug guy was a Merck with that organization. And he got killed out there in an ambush. And then Macalese pulls out at kind of like the last minute he got out of there. And Callan ended up meeting his fate, I think a few weeks later. Well, Calin went to trial and was executed, right?

Like three of them were executed. So if you look back at the newsrails, Callan's in the courtroom. He's being charged with multiple war crimes. And he was clearly a war criminal. And McAlees was one of the first ones to kind of not testify. against them but talk to the media about shit that he was doing. To Callan, just to be clear for

people, he's the guy that like brought in a bunch of British volunteers. They were not veterans or soldiers. One of them was a street sweeper in London. Some of them were teenagers. And when they got there, they refused to fight. And Callan lined them up and just machine gunned them.

Holy fuck. Yeah. Yeah. And he bayoneted one guy, a Brit, like, you know, in the back, pinned him on the ground. I mean, he was a, he was just a complete psychopath but there was a small cadre of guys with experience, mostly former Paris and then they had

Macalese who was a SAS guy who had fallen on some hard times at the time and then ended up in Angola. So I was amazed to see him on your show. Do you remember how you even heard of him? Yeah, I do. Well, I read his book and I reached... No mean soldier

was his book right down. And I'm trying to think about how I got in touch with him. It was, it might have been through another Rhodesian, uh, military veteran. Um, and I got Peter on. And, uh, yeah, that was, that was an incredible interview. And, and, uh, you know, Peter has passed away. Um, so, yeah, we're, we're really glad to have that interview, um, on our channel, um, for posterity and for history's sake. He also had a crazy story about, uh, gearing up and spinning up to go after Pablo Escobar. Yeah.

in Columbia. Yeah. Which is wild. Yeah, the guy, and, you know, the book, which I recommend to anyone, is called No Mean Soldier. It's really good.

And it is very good. And there are, you know, he, as I said, he fell on hard times. He went through two years of heavy drinking

and his marriage was falling apart. And I think he went to jail, actually. And again, almost went to jail in the aftermath. I think he may have,

been kicked out of the SAS two or three times due to punchups at the bar. Yeah. But, you know, I think that was in an area where that, where you could return, right? I mean, his stories, like Phil Campion was another great, another guest of yours. The guy is a natural raconteur. Yes. He can tell a debt, as the Brits saying. It's just hilarious. And even if you've heard his stories before, they're still really funny. But the guy, you know, the, the, guy was like in and out of the glasshouse as the Brits call it all his time in the conventional military now in the U.S. there's no way you'd get a shot at Delta if you had a record like that right but I mean you just wouldn't and maybe it's that way now in the British Army but

the thing I noticed with the SAS guys least the NCOs they more often than not have really blue-collar backgrounds like really like working class dudes that grew up rough Yeah. Yeah. I was watching an interview, Phil Campion interviewed a guy named Billy Billingham, who was the former Sarin region. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I don't know if you've had him on the team house, but he was in, he's in that British show essay. There's some Who Dare's Wins or something where people go through all these strange. We had his buddy Mick Hawk on the show, who they got captured when they were in Lexerio. Big Hawk. Yeah. Yeah, there's another one. So these guys go from kind of podcast to podcasts, and they refine and polish. They're just very good at telling their stories.

And they do have remarkable stories. I'll tell you a little bit of behind the scenes is like there are like PR people who handle like all the SAS guys. And I'm in touch with one of them. And honestly, the guy has been awesome. He's like most of the SAS guys you see on the team house are because that guy put me in touch with them and facilitated that, which I'm very grateful to. we just had an Australian S-A-S-S guy on the show that Dmitri found. Coming out Friday. Yep.

Good. First one ever, we haven't had one. So, I mean, I like the fact, too, though, that you bring, you interview guys who are not so well-known, but still have remarkable stories. You know, I mean, guys like, I mean, Mark, okay, so Mark's a big name now, right? Mark Polly, Polly. Yep. Mellopoulos.

But when you interviewed him, he wasn't, anyway. He was going through all that stuff with Havana syndrome after Bing and Moscow. And that story was not well known outside the agency. But I thought that, but A, he's just, he's a really, he's a great reconteur. He's a, he's a really, despite the fact, despite his Greek background, he's actually, you know, he's a super talented and very funny guy. but that's incredible this point i'll tease out a few here um we got a dev group guy a scheduled um we got a uh a unit member scheduled yeah don't say yeah i don't know if i'm allowed to say the d word uh we got a guy who's an expert in ubiquitous technical surveillance coming on uh i got an

MI6 guy scheduled. First one ever. Yeah. We're going to have to like blur out his face and all that stuff. Have you, but have you seen him before? I mean, have you seen him online or in an episode of anything before? I believe he's written a few,

maybe he's writing spy novels and that's sort of why he's out in the public. I'll have to look that up though. I actually don't know a lot about him or his career right now. I got a couple retired specials. Forces General scheduled for this summer that I'm really excited about. One of them I know quite well. And one of them I don't know really at all except by reputation. And he's kind of a legend.

I'd rather not give away the names at this juncture. But it's one of those things. If you know, you know, I'll tell you later, Andy. Tim Weiner, I mentioned. We have him coming on in July to talk about his new book. book. For some time, it's probably going to be in August, Seth Harp talking about his book about all the shenanigans down at Fort Bragg. And then we got a couple, we got a 160th guy this summer. We got a FBI, CIA counterintelligence dude this summer. And we got, I think, yeah, early June, I got,

Do you know this guy, Andy? No, I don't. Yeah, he's coming up in a couple weeks. He is a U.S. Marine with two decades of experience. He held positions at the Defense Intelligence Agency, National Security Agency, Marine Forces Special Operations Command, and the Marine... Oh, hold it. It's Blade. Blade Hackett.

Jonathan Hackett? Yeah, so you know this guy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he's very well known. yeah i contacted him and uh and i got his book obviously i'm going to give this a read before we do the show so he's coming up yeah you made sorry go ahead d no i just i'm saying like why i like the team that's not because i work at it work it but that's one of the reasons but we have people on that like most vet bro pods don't have on you know and uh that's why we're the fucking best The other thing that's cool is that it's not a lot of chest beating, you know, it's not, there's, there's no posturing. It's like, dude, you've had a lot of trigger time. Yeah, man, there was this one time. It's, you know, that's one thing I like about it, and it's got to, it doesn't take itself too seriously. I do notice that the drinking has been toned down in the coverage. I don't know.

somewhat i mean i i've i've made a personal uh resolution to not pregame uh episodes anymore good yes i approve so i have like one or one or two glasses during the show of scotch and call it call it good that's perfect we need to keep it right there yeah by the time the last one who is the um the cia guy the whistleblower we interviewed i got pretty sloshed on oh john karyaku yeah john kiroaki yeah you were fucking mangled and you could tell like you could tell when jack hits that point it's like a switch kind of i like trying to get the words out yeah tell me a little bit about that john's very good like he's very good on the mic he can really spit yeah yeah john um had a really interesting CIA career obviously Greek dude um we got him to tell the story about the assassination

that's cool yeah what is it what is it what is it 17 November D. Yeah, they try to, they clip the MI6 guy. Like, like five cars, 10 cars ahead of him. Yeah. In the 90s. Wait, what, who were they trying to get? Who was this?

There was a Greek terrorist organization. And I mean, who they really were, who they really, like, what they're, like, there's a lot of murkiness around that organization. And so they kill an MI6 guy. And they send a letter, I think, to either the British or the American. embassy and in the letter they say yeah we killed your MI6 guy and we saw the CIA dude five cars back and you know we didn't tag him this time and that was kiriaku yeah so like greece was like super he had an armored up car and everything like that he took it wasn't like a it's not

paris you know where it's like a chill kind of vibe and then and then he talked to some journalists about things that the united states government thinks that he should not be talking about, such as the CIA's torture program, for instance. And John did some, did some prison time. And so his prison stories were pretty funny, too, about being a pretty like, yeah, I mean, he's a CIA case officer, smart guy, of course, but not some, not exactly a prison hardened felon by any means. I didn't realize he went to the slammer for that.

Yeah, he did. He did some time in the claim. I think close to two years. something like that yeah but i mean that episode my my my uh public drunkenness aside that was a good episode and i i mean curiosity also when i when i asked some folks CIA folks about um having john kariako on i got fucking bitched out i got fucking reamed out by people like you can't have him on he's a fucking straight i'm like what really oh yeah oh yeah i've definitely gotten some stuff like that over the years but my my thing

has always been like, first off, I'll interview whoever the hell I want. And if you don't like it, just don't watch it. Right. But secondly, it's like, just because I interview somebody doesn't mean I endorse their entire worldview. I mean, we're trying to get these different perspectives out there. And if we were in a different time, like, would I interview former members of, you know, the Vermaqt that fought for Germany?

Like, yeah, of course I would because I'm trying to capture all of that history. it's not to celebrate the Third Reich that's not what we're doing here even like some of the Rhodesians and South Africans we have on the show we're not celebrating apartheid like that's not what's taking place here

Yeah yeah I was going to ask you about that And I know So even Mark Polly You took a bunch of crap for that right Because he had signed a letter about I mean we get a couple of those comments Like every time Mark Pollymeroff was asking him about the letter

asked him about the letter. Meanwhile, we have asked them about the letter in the exact show that they're commenting on. They just haven't fucking seen it. They just want to comment because they're fucking idiots. You're not asking them the right questions. It's unreal. It's hilarious. So on the, you know,

on the topic of drinking on the show, I think, Jack, you play it off very well, I have to admit. And there's only one time where you went in, I don't think this was on air. I think might have been, no, it was. It was towards the end of a show. you went off to take a piss. That's the one where you took your shirt off, Andy,

where we didn't give you food. That's the one, yeah. Yeah, you didn't give me food for this. And it's our fault completely. We apologize. So anyway, those days are in the past. Well, I never say never, Andy. Yeah, I mean, I'm waiting for my next invitation on, but.

Bro, you have an open invite on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, anytime you're in New York. Yeah, I would like to come back. but that one was funny the one where you guys are shit-faced really shit-faced yeah we jack goes to go pee and i'm trying to land the plane they come back they're still talking for a few minutes i'm like all right we got to get the fuck out of here remember our girlfriends were there too watching all

that you remember that the girls we were dating at the time i do we drank like a bottle and a half of scotch that night and staggered out of that studio and there was so much snow too it was like a Foot of snow out. Yeah, yeah. I remember helping Andy's girlfriend over the snow bank that was like six feet high to get to the car. Not me, you know this. I was like, I was lying half unconscious in the snow. And Mark's like, and Jack's like, let me, let me walk your girlfriend home.

That would have been smooth. Andy was still trying to get his shirt on the right way. Yeah, well, like two years later, I found like a sweatshirt or like kind of like, a North Face jacket in the studio and was like, I thought it was my jacket. I went to put it on and like the sleeves only come up to like here on me. I'm like, what the fuck is this?

And I realized, oh, it's Andy's sweatshirt that he was asking me about years ago that he left in the studio. We still have that, Annie. And it was, it was super loose around the chest and the biceps. And there was plenty of, plenty. But just very tight around the gut. I felt like a little kid.

I was like, like the sleeves were just like, Yeah, happy days. So what are you working on now with Sean Neela? Sean is plugging the way on the draft I have sent him about part two of our Havana Syndrome story. Part one was incredible. Check it out on the high side. Really cool.

Unheard stories. Those guys got totally fucked. It's incredible. And then I'm working on two stories right now kind of in tandem. And I'll just say one of them is a J-Sococ. operation. And then the other is a CIA program that that was run in Afghanistan that I don't think anyone's ever heard of before unless you were one of three people who work there, maybe. So that's that's kind of like what's in the pipes right now.

Tell us a little bit about the Havana one. Well, the Havana part two. I mean, some of the stories, some of the stories people have been heard. I mean. There's a video on Aizond. We did an episode on Aisong. You can check that out with Jack and showing a few months back when the first part came out. Checked out if you really want to get the whole sense of it. And if you really want to get in-depth, high side substack, the link is in the description. You're welcome.

The part two, which is not out yet, gets much deeper into the medicine and the science of Havana syndrome. So interviewing a lot of like doctors and professionals about this. other people in the national security sphere who can talk about how we have similar microwave devices. And then we'll also get into some more of the domestic surveillance that some of these guys experienced. And there's some other stuff too. And I'm aware of some things that are potentially happening at DOD right now that I probably shouldn't get into quite yet. but you may see some more information about this topic come out from our government in the next

month or so why so why did it occur in havana i mean i know we have mark polymolopolis at a boy thank you because we just called a mark p you know who went through the same experience in moscow but why do you think it occurred in havana are there any any theories about that Um, there and then. Yeah. Well, so the when has to do with because we were normalizing relations with Cuba at the time. And this was something that the Russians definitely didn't want to see happen. Um, there were a number of other things on the periphery.

I don't know. And this is one of those other like lingering questions is, you know, how much did the Cubans know? Um, now it's basically implausible for them. to have known nothing. The idea that there were like Russian GRU guys running around Havana, zapping people with some sort of microwave device. I mean, Cuba is an authoritarian surveillance state. Like everything is being watched. Everyone is being watched. So to have like teams doing some like kind of espionage out on the streets of Havana, much less zapping people without the Cuban government knowing that is kind of impossible to even fathom.

But, you know, were the Cubans kind of like deceived to some extent where they told, hey, we're going to go install some listening devices. And in reality, they just, they put something that was more kinetic. That's a, that's a possibility that I couldn't discount. Why, I mean, why did these people have such a hard time being heard? You know, we've heard Mark P's story about. Because the CIA didn't want to hear it. They still don't want to hear it to this day. Even as the DOD is like coming forward and like, like, yeah, this is real. This is the thing. CIA is really, though, they're really the last ones at the party who are holding that party line. They're kind of the last agency that's still trying to say, well, I don't think this is real, you know, maybe you got TBI from something else, whatever. And a lot of that has to do with, you know, it became a personnel issue for them that there were already people who were, declining to go overseas. They're like, oh, our friends just came back from Havana or they just came

back from Austria or wherever. And this guy is like in a wheelchair now. Like there's no way like we're going over there with our family and like we're working like a normal embassy kind of tour. So it's already causing personnel issues. And you know, as you had people

getting zapped in Havana, Austria, Central Asia, Vietnam. all these different places. Yeah, I didn't realize it was so widespread. Yeah, all over the world. China was another one that as that happens, I mean, this really did have the potential

to shut down American global human intelligence operations, in my opinion. Because if, you know, CIA people just were not, either were refusing to deploy or would not go overseas anymore, or the agency itself was declining to send them. I mean, it would shut down our human networks globally at some point if it got bad enough. And I think the Russians found a way to do that in a non-lethal manner. You know, you're going to scramble somebody's brain, but they're not going to be able to even prove what was done to them.

It's not like an assassination where there's a body. And, you know, that's probably going to piss some people off. So I think they found a way to use technology for. a sort of workaround. And there's this whole tit for tat that was going on between the normalization of relations with Cuba, Russia striking back against that, the 2016 election and the Russians interfering in that. And then afterwards, Russia House at CIA got very serious about going after Russia and after Russian intelligence operations. And they really fucked some of them up, too, from what I understand.

And so the Havana stuff keeps coming. And if I were to write a story like a sequel or a part three to my Havana story, I would want to write similar to what I wrote about, what happened in Cuba and talking to all the people there, write that about China because that was the next place where these events started happening. And I think it would be really interesting to sort of peel back the onion on that and get to the bottom of, you know, the similarities and differences of what happened in China.

Do you think it was Chinese, though, doing it in China? Because the Russian model, I won't say it was brilliant, but it was pretty inspired. I mean, when you think about what it had achieved, it caused divisions within the agency itself. It caused an institutional lack of confidence. And it, I mean, the repercussions. were widespread and added time when all those other things were going on. I think the whole thing should be seen primarily as a psychological operation rather than a kinetic operation or whatever you want to call it, microwaves.

Because I think the psychological component was the main effort, not actually toasting people, which happened. I'm not denying or doubting that at all. It definitely happened. But I think the follow-on psychological aspects of it was the real main point. And I mean, the Russians have, they've developed this concept called reflexive control theory, which is pretty interesting. And this isn't in the article I wrote. I wrote something about this years ago.

But basically, the way they look at it, it's sort of a form of game theory. And so the way they look at it is like they will study the institution and its decision-making process. So like in the military, we use what is that MDMP, like the military decision making process. If you look at that process and then from a psychological operation standpoint, look at how can we insert information into that process? How can we get inside that decision making loop right there and insert our own information into it? And again, there are some interesting things about that that once you insert the information and if it's believed, if the institution takes it and does what, you know, you want them to with it, it requires no further input from a disinformation agent or from an intelligence service that it just continues to run. And I think that you've seen them insert

some of these pieces of information into, in this case, let's say, our intelligence community, our intelligence culture. And it continues to, to this day, to have benefits, you know, greatly outsized benefits for the Russians. and caused really fundamental divisions. And I wonder, you know, part of that, part of that is, it's a, to me, it's a problem with the culture within our intelligence organizations. And I'll give you an example. You have, you have guys who've had exceptional careers and then suddenly something happens to them. They, you know, naturally, they want answers and they pursue, you know, they go.

go ahead and get treatment, but they're vocal about wanting to get answers to what happened and saying, no, this really did happen. And the way that the organization, the institution reacts, shows almost a level of insecurity by trying to quash these guys and pretend that it hadn't. I mean, it was extraordinary. The nature of secrecy, I think, shields the CIA from having to take accountability or responsibility for a lot of things. And I mean, it does sound like, I mean, not a very nice place to work. There are a lot of great, I know a lot of people who serve there at this point. And a lot of them, I mean, most of them are really great people.

But as far as like the senior intelligence staff and like how they, how they handle and manage that organization, I mean, there's some truth to that, you know, kind of like cliche that like the CIA is this like backstabbing cutthroat organization. They are like that. But not necessarily when it comes to running operations on our adversaries. they're like that against their own employees when they happen to step outside a very narrow band of approved behaviors they get pretty pissed and very vindictive pursuing them to to this day even yeah i mean it works like a like an organism you know it depoys white blood cells against the the problem you know instead of actually fixing the problem it's like you know how do we shut this person up um and you i mean there's

a lot of stuff I probably shouldn't get into off the cuff like this, but do it. I mean, there's there's stuff like, okay, so for instance, like the CIA never had a me to movement, a me too moment. Really, we had this like all throughout America, from Hollywood to the army, right? There's all this me too thing kind of happened. It never really happened for the CIA because classification is something they're able to hide behind. When you have an organization where everyone has to maintain a T.S. A clearance.

The second someone starts speaking out, you can threaten to take that. And as you know, Andy, I mean, for someone in the intelligence community, that's your livelihood. It's not that you just can't work at CIA. It's that you can't work in this profession. Yeah, it's a license to do business.

Yeah, it's literally your license of business. Your union card, you're done. So there are, there's a lot of toxic shit that happens at the CIA. I'm from dudes just, you know, sleeping with other, their, their employees' wives. I've even heard some weird stories about like cuck holding type stuff where it's like, let me fuck your wife and I'll elevate you and your wife in the organization. I've heard stuff about like a lot of like date rape stuff, unfortunately.

There's some really nasty shit out there. And unfortunately, it doesn't seem like the organization does really fuck all to clean it up until the damn bursts, right? Like that guy, there's the dude who was date raping the local girls in Algeria. And I mean, it wasn't until these girls came into the embassy and were like, yeah, this guy who works here raped us the other night drugged us and raped us. And then they finally have to do something about it. This was an agency guy?

Yeah, this was the CIA officer. Like relatively senior. I can't remember his name off the top of my head. Rolling Stone did an article about him, which is pretty funny, amusing in the sense. I don't think they would write an article like this today, but they basically let this dude say that like the CIA persecuted him because he's black rather than being persecuted because he's a rapist. Yeah. It's like, okay, dude.

And so the Rolling Stone, of course, kind of like runs with that a little bit and is like, oh, maybe the CIA is racist. I don't think that's the point of this story. We're not seeing the forest through the trees here, folks. You can't make it up. Hey, you know, I know we're winding down, Dee, but I just, you know, on that topic, one thing I've told it. Actually, it's not on that topic, except that we were talking about sex, which is not unusual in the show. Andrew Warren was his name.

Yeah, that's him. Yeah, so what era are we talking about? 2009. Okay, so it was a while ago. And he was a case officer? Yeah. Station chief in Algeria. Station Chief. That's, I mean, it's just amazing. So he didn't suddenly start doing this shit, right? Yeah, no way.

No, it's not like he made station chief and thought, hey, you know what? I'm going to go out and drug and rape girls. I mean, someone like that has had a track record. Right. Undoubtedly going all the way back to college. And it's, and that's a frightening thing, right? Yeah, he's gone through all those investigations. He's, well, he went through the farm. He went through in all those years in the agency. And who knows what he did in other countries overseas. And, till finally he gets called. It's like, and this is where I was heading on this, too. So in the military, what never ceases to amaze me of the number of flag officers, generals and admirals, who get in trouble, you know, it's kind of the sun god syndrome, right?

And they get in trouble invariably because of sex-related stuff. It's, you know, time and time again, and we can name half a dozen names of really big things. who've done just outrageous things, and just think that they can get away with it. But then on the other hand, that wasn't something that just came to the fall when they made flag officer, right?

I mean, look at this dude. Okay, so this is not sex-related, but look at this, so the four-star Admiral, Admiral Burke, who is the Vice Chief of Naval Operations, just indicted, just found guilty of corruption, right, which is not unusual in the nation. not unusual in the Navy, and we know that from Fat Leonard. But his downfall was the fact that he had a girlfriend who spilled the beans, he pissed her off. But I mean, he was doing absolutely

outrageous, outrageous stuff, you know, and, and getting away with it. And it's not as though he suddenly, you know, woke up as a four-star admiral and didn't have integrity in doing that all his, you know, that sort of thing, all his grip. It's quite an interesting story if you read, you know, if you read the background. I mean, not only was he doing nefarious stuff, but he was basically bringing in this company

to teach leadership in the Navy, and the company was going to give him a job when he got out. That was the agreement. And he was having an affair, and he was bringing that girl to all of these meetings. I mean, it was, you know, you just can't.

I guess what I'm heading on this is there is something whatever whatever means that the military and the you know I get your point on the agency it's even more of the closed field but whatever means we do of assessing

people and it's highly fallible and in the military we have this problem of we I think we become too obsequious to people with rank and when you make

certainly when you make general I mean you've seen And you've seen in the military how sycophantic people are to flag officers. It's sickening. And then when people make four-star, they are treated like vice-froys. You know, they travel with this entourage. They, you know, they'll reserve like a whole level on a, the Marriott and, you know, people are lining upside the door to, to brief them.

It's just the way they are treated referred to in the third person. And we kind of... My general. I've heard that. Yeah. My general. God, we build this, we build this culture. I'm not saying it's related to what's happening in the agency.

It's a different sort of endemic problem with the culture. But yeah, we, I don't know what it is. Why do they do that just to get ahead? Like, hey, this guy will fucking promote me and shit or what? I mean, there's definitely that. But I mean, there is also like this sort of like genuine like admiration, if not love, that exists in many cases. And, you know, as Andy's point.

out like kind of elevate these people a little bit too much and and place too much faith in them and at a bare minimum i mean we should recognize that you know they're only human right yeah yeah and it's not you don't see that in other western militaries you don't see that same level of of the sequestness and sycophancy and um it's yeah it's damaging it leads people to to bad behavior so you know we as we end the discussion on bad behavior, which I think is a good, you know, a good note. D, is there anything, anything else you want to say, a wrap up? I don't want to, I don't want to take up too much of, uh, that's right.

He's fine. See the great Jack Murphy's time. He's fine. Hey, we were supposed to have a podcast at some point today, like at 3 p.m. today and we don't have it. So he's free. Jack, going back to China and like, uh, the guy, the people that got hit with the Havana syndrome, do you think that's China doing it, like in conjunction with Russia?

Is it Russia doing it in China? Yeah. Yeah, I honestly don't know. That's why I'd have to go like almost start all over again, you know, because a totally new set of people I would have to go talk to. But I think it might be worthwhile to do that at some point. Yeah. All right.

I got nothing else. Andy, you have anything? I don't. It's been fun bullshitting with you guys as usual. Jackalope, you got anything? Tell me. No, no, man. you know the deal

check us out on the team house I hope you guys have all been joining eyes on and maybe we can do a follow up after the barbecue this memorial day oh yeah we could totally do that that'd be awesome yeah just live stream from the barbecue

I don't know there that I don't want to be seen and it's all the blind players it's just too many personalities at that place like I don't want to fucking have to wrangle that shit true like I'm literally the wrangler uh guys do us a favor like and subscribe if you're listening to us on audio subscribe there and you can rate five stars as well check out in his book when the tempest gathers uh links are all in the description for that jack murphy of course substack the high side link is in the description there too all his links will be there as well and the best way you

can the best thing you could possibly do besides jack's high side sorry besides andy's book is join the Patreon. Patreon.com slash the teamhouse. You get both a team house and I's on completely ad free and early. You get it a couple days early for sure, both video and audio. If you hit the $10 level and you want it, you can get a free patch from us. I'll send it myself. And you help support the show, which is the most important thing. You get us to keep going with like incredible experts like Andy, Jack, Mick, Jason,

and all the guests we get. So that's patreon.com slash the team house. It's very important. I'm not just saying that to say that. I feel like I had something else to say, but I can't remember. So that's it. Cool. Well, as always, great chatting with you guys.

And we'll see you next week. Enjoy your barbecue. Happy Memorial Day. Yeah, happy Memorial Day, everybody. We'll probably have another episode of Eyes on coming out Sunday night with the full crew. probably, I hope Andy Mick, Mick, Mick's a weekend guy. He's a weekend warrior because he's got like a real job

trying to save the world with humanitarian aid. Which shout out to that. His links are also in the description as well. I'm telling you guys, I totally forgot something and I'm trying to remember. That's why I'm stalling here. We'll give you an awkward 15 seconds to remember. I'm not worried about an awkward, awkward pause.

I live on awkward silences. Do you think about that? I'm just going to admire. Jack, is that the same apartment that I stayed in? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that, by the way. At least I could do, bro.

You know what's interesting? Like, Andy stayed at my house, too, before. And he doesn't say, oh, is that the place that I stayed at? I really appreciate it. I just don't remember saying it. If you look up, that's the new pull-up board right there. Oh, right, yeah. Like the one that landed on my...

Like the one that knocked you out. No, this is a new one. That's right. If this lands on your head, it'll actually kill you. I'll bear that in mind next to my visit. That's right. Andy got concussed at Jack's apartment when he's trying to do pull-ups. Yeah.

It was completely sober. All right, guys. Thank you for this. We should do this often where it's just a bullshit episode. Just chat. Yeah, I like that. You're the only human beings I get to talk to. Bye, guys.

Bye. All right. See you next time. Hey, guys. It's Jack. I just want to talk to you for a moment about how you can support the show. If you've been watching it, enjoying it, but you'd like to get a little bit more involved and help us continue to do this.

You can check out our Patreon. It is patreon.com slash the teamhouse. And for $5 a month, you can get access to all of these episodes of the team house ad free. The same goes with our affiliated podcast Eyes On with Andy Milburn, Jason Lyons, Mick Mulroy. That one, you will also get all of those episodes ad-free. And you support the channel and the show, and we really appreciate it. The Patreon members are literally what has helped this company, this small business, survive, especially during our early years.

And you are what continues to help this thing going, even as we navigate the turbulent world of YouTube advertising. So we really appreciate all of you guys. There's going to be a link down in the description to that Patreon page. And there is also going to be a link to our new merch shop. So if you guys want to go and get some Team House merchandise, we got stickers and we also have patches. And I should mention, if you sign up for Patreon at $10 a month, we will mail you this patch as well. So we really appreciate that. But they're also for sale on the merch shop. And, Additionally, they got T-shirts up there, water bottles, tote bag, coffee mugs, all that good stuff. So please go and check them out and support the show.

We really appreciate it, guys. Thank you.