The Team House - From MACV-SOG to CIA Paramilitary Officer | Frank McClosky | Ep. 202

Episode Date: April 17, 2023

Frank served in MACV-SOG during the Vietnam War and then with the CIA where he was awarded the intelligence star for action in Central America. Today's Sponsors: MD Hearing Aids So, if you want MDHearing’s smallest hearing aid ever, go to MDHearing.com and use promo code TEAMHOUSE to get their NEW Buy 1/Get 1 $149.99 EACH offer when you buy a pair. Plus they are adding a FREE Extra Charging Case, a $100 value, just for listeners of this show. So, head to https://MDHEARING.com and use our promo code TEAMHOUSE and get their NEW Buy 1/Get 1 $149.99 EACH offer when you buy a pair. https://MDHEARING.com use the code "TEAMHOUSE" Thank you for supporting the companies that support the show ! To help support the show and for all bonus content including: -AD FREE AUDIO -AD FREE VIDEO -Access to ALL bonus segments with our guests Subscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Team House merch: ⬇️ https://teespring.com/stores/my-store-10474963 Social Media: ⬇️ The Team House Instagram: https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_link The Team House Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePod Jack’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_link Jack’s Twitter:  https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21 Dave’s Twitter:  https://twitter.com/dave_parke?s=21 Team House Discord: ⬇️ https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6 SubReddit: ⬇️ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheTeamHouse/ Jack Murphy's memoir "Murphy's Law" can be found here:⬇️  https://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Law-Journey-Investigative-Journalist/dp/1501191241 The Team Room Reading Room (Amazon Affiliate links):⬇️  https://jackmurphywrites.com/the-team-room-reading-room/ Intro music by https://www.youtube.com/user/RemixSample Want to sponsor the show? Email: ⬇️ [e-mail] #macvsog #ciaparamilitaryofficerBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

Hey, folks, I just want to take a minute to ask you to go in rate this podcast, let the Teamhouse know how you think we're doing, go and rate us on whatever platform you're listening to this on, whether it's iTunes or Spotify or whatever else. Those ratings really help us out, and we really appreciate the feedback to let us know what you like and what you don't like. And if you do like the Team House and you'd like to support us, go check out our Patreon page and you can actually support the stream in well as get access to our team house. the team house and you'd like to support us, go check out our Patreon page and you can actually support the stream and well as get access to our bonus segments and bonus episodes. Yeah, if you're going to give us a great review, please do. And if you're going to give us a not so good review, why don't you just send us an email and we'll talk about it. Special Operations, covert ops, espionage, the team house with your host, Jack Murphy,

and David Park. Hi, everyone. I'm Jack Murphy, here with David Park, Dimitri, producing. Special guest over here in the far corner that's off camera who's actually just visiting. And our actual guest on episode 2 and 203 tonight is Frank McCloskey.

Frank had an amazing career. He served in the Army in the 101st, served in Special Forces with MacV. Saug in Vietnam on two different recon teams. Then went on to become a police officer after the war and through a roundabout way, sort of came to serve as an officer in the Central Intelligence Agency and a paramilitary capacity down in Central America for many, many years. And then went on to some other interesting things as well. So, Frank, I've wanted to have you on this show literally since we started this show. So it's been like three years that I've wanted to do this interview.

So I'm so happy to have you here tonight. Well, thank you for inviting me. Yeah, absolutely, Frank. Let's just start from the top. I love to ask our guests about sort of like what their upbringing was like, like where they grew up and sort of how that took them towards military service. If you could kind of tell us about that. Well, yes, I grew up in western Pennsylvania right outside of Johnstown.

My grandmother inherited a 200-plus acre farm up there from her dad, who was a dentist in Johnstown. We grew up in a row area, not much around. My uncles were into guns. My grandfather was a World War I veteran, and he had brought home a 1917 Colt Revolver. And he let me wear it all the time. And, of course, we were out shooting alive when I was a kid.

So weapons, and then he had a uniform hanging up in the bedroom, his blouse from World War II, World War I. And he had wound chevrons on, three of them. and he never talked much about the war, but the Mongol joined the Marine Corps probably in the early 60s, and I forget what grade I was in, but anyhow, that had a lot of influence on me.

Yeah, I went down to Paris Island to watch a graduation. I wanted to be a Marine. In high school, I, more or less an average student, any less than average, I guess, and I liked sports. I wrestled, I played football, I ran track.

But one day I went to the library and I saw a picture of Rodney Donald when he got the Medal of Honor who would be the first mental honor winner in Vietnam. And I said, well, that's what I'm going to be, a green beret. So from my high school, well, this was early on. My wrestling coach came from ROTC. He was a second-tent or first-attent in Germany. And he kind of mentor me into the military. and I decided to join.

I was going to join the Marine Corps first. But I went up there and they told me that couldn't be airborne where I wanted to be a character. So he sent me down to all of the Army and I enlisted the legislative enlistment program, which gave me a little bit of the edge for rank over the other guys when I wanted in the Army. Anyhow, I joined in February before I graduated.

and I graduated and I graduated in June the first part of June I was on the way to Ward Jackson for induction into the Army my uncle the Marine he showed me how to make

creases in uniform by using your teeth your saliva and he taught me how to call his shoes obviously or boots and then he also gave me his manual, and I knew how to do this, the left face, right face, baffa,

anyhow, it turns out the first day we got our uniforms in the poor Jackson, I spent all my whole day pausing my boots and putting those creases to that uniform. So, like, next morning we had a formation, and I looked pretty sharp

compared to everybody else, and they just look at bags on. So anyhow, this is real sharp. B7 came on in the D-I and he says, hey, McCloskey, you're my new squad leader because you've got some shit together. So anyhow, I spent the whole base training in his squad leader thinking I was going to go to the infantry. So I graduated like made PFC out of basic and I got orders for the government engineers training in borderline, Missouri. I said, what the heck? I don't want to be infantry.

Yes. It would be airborne infantry. The guy said, well, look, the GT score is probably high enough to get you a little bit above the guys who want to be infantry. So he said, just do what they tell you to do because they can't change their orders. So I went to Fortland O' Wooden, and they put me in a leadership program at that point, and they gave us like a week and a half or two weeks of indoctrination to help out the instructor. So we basically knew what's going to happen during our AITA.

advanced individual training at the uh at the uh come in at your school and it involved a demo some you know a lot of construction building bridges and all that anyhow i uh i uh went ahead to suffer to that but i did all right i mean i was squatting there also and uh i played football there for a little bit but i got hurt to you about it and actually they offered me they said look we're gonna that was a center i was the snapper center and I played pretty good those fast and I played pretty good football but I was getting my butt-tick by these college guys who were drafted but they offered me I said okay I want to put you in OCS for engineer OCS but you'll

never go to OCS you just here to play football I said no I don't know I want to go to jump school so I go football and ended up going to jump school I finished jump school and we got orders for the first grade and I'm from serving morning vision one of my best friends, me and Chris Edwards. We both wanted to be infantry. So we get over to Vietnam. When we report in to the fan rang at the first brigade, we went to our first sergeant at 326th seasonaires.

We said, look, we want to be in the infantry. He's okay. That ain't a little big deal. Go on down to the 5-0-duce and tell me what to be in infantry. And sure enough he sent us down there. And we went to Charlie Company. that was a carpenter Bill Carpenter was one to call it napon in napal mid in his platoon during the doc foe in June so anyhow they took us he wanted he want to

one platoon I want to the other and so I ended up being a machine gunner and got my M. W. Chained and got my CID and it was probably a the first part of my tour is okay. There was no big, I mean, it's like pump on the booths. We were nomads of the, of the, of the anomaly set. And they kept us in the field all the time. And we were out, out, out, and days and days and days. We never split him six days. So, we never hit anything until, like, May 18. I heard on the radio that I was right behind the RTO as a point gunner in this formation.

And I heard, we know the B Company was in trouble and he got ambushed on us. It's called Hill 424. So we were set up on a little kind of semi-perimeter and we're heading to relieve them. We're trying to flanks the ambush. So I was a point gunner, and there was a point man from me, and the slack man, they called him, and then there was me, and then behind me was the assistant gunner, and then, of course, the RTO would move in the opportune leader.

So we go into this area, and I could hear rounds going off all over the place. But being new with that stuff, I really didn't pay attention. So the point man, Rose, was a veteran of Doc Clover. He was getting ready to go home. So he took off and he was hiding. He was kind of up slope and he pointed to this bunker to me. And I was, and I went up to the bunker and I kind of put my, I was an M60 gun. So I put my gun in there and started firing.

Next thing I got a hit in the back of the head. And I thought it was my assistant gunner, shop. you by accident. So I flew over to the bunker and landed down, my helmet rolled down hill a little bit. So I was kind of out of it for a minute and I thought, well, my God, my God, and brains were going to come up. You know, one of those things. You're shot in the head. He said, oh, my God, I'm going to die eventually shortly. You know, so anyhow, the whole, the whole day, I spent, I spent a lot of time trying to get my humble back, and then had a big hole in it. So I got my helmet bag, and we've actually got out of there.

and I got to the hospital and they took my home on and I said hey that's my that's my souvenir well the bullet they left it in there because the guy so I think about a bullet out without any anesthesia or no mosaic or nothing I say you got you got to knock it off he's okay you idiot I'm gonna go ahead and let it heal up you go back to your unit that's okay don't fine but you know that gave me a lot of trouble the whole time I had to just this just fragment in my under my scalp. They gave me a lot of

trouble. As a fact, one of the attacking into the SF training group called me bullethead. Because every time I jumped up an airplane, it was feed-ass and

head, usually could have gone backwards. It would cause me to ooze stuff. Did you ever figure out where that round came from? Because as I'm visualizing in my mind, you were firing into the bunker with your 60.

Oh, what happened was there was a bunker behind us. Ah, okay. We walked into his bunker complex. The lieutenant stayed behind and he said, okay, he sent four of us forward. And there was a bunker behind us. We didn't know it because he was very concealed.

So he shot like three of us before we knew where he was. But anyway, he eventually got, I mean, he shot one, two, three of us in that but two. And the problem was that we, they were very concealed, they were very good because concealment. The bunker behind us, we couldn't even see. And everybody was in front of that bunker.

That's why I got hit first. Then he got the RTO and he shot an engineer until one of the sergeants decided, okay, would not be nowhere he is because he shot everybody. So they, you know, they neutralized the bunker. we eventually got out of there, but Beacon took a beat and we had one metal bar there. We had like 20 KIAs. That was one of the biggest firefights we had. And eventually, you know, later on I found the guy that evacuated.

When I was flying helicopters for CJ Systems, I went to a similar training and I ran in this guy and he says, I pulled everybody out of Hill 424 on 18th of May. So he was, he took me out of there, as a matter of fact. But anyhow, once I got back from the hospital, they tried to put me on KP. I think of me, this is, no, you're a spec 4, now he can't be on KP. I was why don't even know?

I didn't even know as a spec 4 because the infantry, they don't tell you nothing, you know. So my, the two, you know, the two. sergeant was for my hometown. T.K. Bennett. He's look, you already did your time. I'm going to put you in supply and all so. I'll get you a good job back here to rear. I'm going to get pack of that horse. So I spend my rest of my tour as a machine gunner. And we had one more big heat fight in September 29 where a bunch of guys got killed. And I was the point gunner at the time, which is lucky. Because our point gunner got hit, didn't die, but he got hit pretty bad.

So anyhow, you'll be to keep going? Yeah, yeah. I mean, go ahead. Well, anyhow, I got, I got the, during my, I was pretty well liked by the, you know, the Petitou so on everybody. And right before I left, one of the two officers, I'm going to do your favor of making a sergeant. He's still there?

Oh, he tells them. All right. Okay. He's going to do it. you're in favor, I'm going to make you an E5. He said, before you get back to brag, because they're going to put you in 80 seconds. I said, okay.

Sure enough, I made E5. So when I got out of the field, I was brand-new buck sergeant, and I was back in the rear and getting ready to go home. And I had a read, I had a very bad case of malaria in, in like August of 67. That almost killed me.

I had to tell someone malaria. I was in a hospital for a month. And I didn't know what it was for a while. But anyhow, he promotes, he gets me promoted. I don't know. He liked me for some reason. I don't know. Tonya, I get back to this. I get an order for the 82nd Airborne base.

And I ran to some S.F guy on R&R. And he said, how can I get in special forces? He's well, go back to go to Fort Prague and find the first guy with a green gray. And why not do it? And I said, okay. So sure enough, I got it back to the States, but I had a reglass in my area. So they took me in the Savannah Hospital, and somebody in there, they never saw my area before. They finally got me good enough where I could do part of my leave.

So I went back to Port Bragg early, like 10 days early before I was supposed to report to the 8th second. And I see this green brain hitchhagging down Brad Boulevard. So I pick them off and I said. said, hey, look, here's a deal. I really want to get Special Forces. How can I do that? I'm going to take you right there. So he took me down to the Center, Center for Pless Warfare, you know?

Yeah, the Special War Center. We called the Center. So the, there's a Sergeant Major there. Oh, dude, yes. He said, how can help us? Well, I'll get Special Forces. He said, oh, your second guy just showed up. It had to be an E7.

in there with me he said okay we're gonna we're gonna give you guys a test it was a written test that was it i don't know it was like stupid so we both him and i did the test we both passed if his name was uh what was the name uh he was the next golden night i'll think in a minute anyhow he's we got out of the test we're both us we both got our orders change and he says I'm going to the BOQ where you stay in us I don't know he said well come on the BO Q the BEQ so I said nah I just go to the barracks and sign in I just sleep in the barracks with my leaves up well I didn't realize the soon you sign for linen in the military you're in you know I mean there's your leaves gone I signed for

where my linen and here I am they sent me to Delta company which was a full of medics. I was going to go weapons because it was the shortest course. And I wanted to be a medic, but I didn't have a ton. I had to read list of what I wanted to be a medic. So they put me in this Delta Company barracks. And oh, my God, these guys killed me. These guys had so much experience in the military already.

They've been a whole year's with a training son. They'll have to coast. You know how to ghost me visited. They know how to get out of work. So every morning, He could go out to report the first sergeant hated me because I was a 19-year-old Bucks sergeant. And he, you know, I don't know. So he just resented the fact that I would thank you for him to the Bucsard.

I said, I can't help him. I can't help him first. He had to be a Vietnam. He promoted me. Anyhow, he had to march a bunch of the medics down to the, down to the center for, they call it slave market. On Saturdays he'd get down there, you take them all down, and they put them all down. on details. These guys are experts

that are getting out of work, the medic, because they were very small. Most of them had degrees. Some of them were half-ass doctors, you know. They were good. So I'm marching them down there, and I see a bunch of them disappeared in cab behind. The back of my formation,

the back of my formation disappears. So I get down there, and I'm losing half the guys. And here's that first order to be so. And then I, you know, I just come back and we know what I'm going to give a shit about Mark. and troops and I was I just told them I just don't rest up down here. He wanted me to march and down here like a bunch of I don't know whatever.

I got trouble so I had a March troops around the parking lot for a couple weekends in a row because of because I just you know couldn't do drill ceremony you know so anyhow I got through SF training group I was a weapons one two weapons light and heavy and actually during light weapons we had two three seals came through our course free from shell team two and they tried to convince me the leaves they asked that training go go go to buds they like me I don't know why but we hung out all the time together and they took me up to morphoicum I saw this guy out there's two two or three guys out in the middle of the ocean middle of the bay where it was swimming in the snow and I said

he said that's buds right there I said what happened if you failed buds? He said well you see that big boat out there that's where you're going if you fell buds I said hey I want to be a green beret so this guy

this guy Joe Silverwell he was a name he retired Master Chief he says so you want to be a green marae huh I said yeah I'm going to be green beret so anyway I finished training group you want to keep warm Dave can you give a quick shout

out to the sponsor for the show tonight. Absolutely. So tonight, our sponsor is MD Hearing. And I will say that as somebody who wears hearing aids, taking care of your hearing is important. And, you know, a lot of us, whether it's too much combat, too many rock concerts, whatever it is, you know, we need hearing aids. But hearing aids are expensive. So MD Hearing is a company created by an E&T surgeon that is direct-to-consumer

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And make sure you hit the bell icon and select all notifications so you get notified and we go live. And if you look down in the description, there's a link to our Patreon. And if you sign up, it's $5 a month and you get access to all these episodes ad free. So we really appreciate all you guys who help keep this stream going. So Frank, back to you. So you have decided against the seal recruiting pitch, and you're going to stay with special forces. I want to take just a moment to ask you. You know, you were a young, as you said, a 19-year-old buck sergeant, you know, you enlisted, you wanted to enlist in the infantry and then volunteer for special forces all during the Vietnam conflict.

And I just wanted to ask a little bit about what was going on in your mind at that time, what your thoughts were about the war and, in, I mean, this was something, obviously, you really wanted to be there. This is something you really wanted to do. And I was wondering if you could tell us about what was going on with 19-year-old Frank. Well, I think during my time with the infantry platoon, I realized that we're just numbers to everybody. I mean, we've had some KIAs and stuff on it. Nobody really cares. I mean, they do a little ceremony where to put the boots up with the helmet and the M-16.

but in a long run, nobody really cared about the infantry or a soldier per se, I don't guess. I mean, I'm talking about the higher ranking officials. I mean, when I was Vietnam, if you're a lieutenant, you've got one firefight, you've got a superstar. Try to get a superstar as though, the NCO or a, you know, a PFC. But I don't know, I got, it was mostly for my friends. I mean, I have peer pressure. When my platoon sergeant says, hey, take this job supply and write out the rest of the war, I couldn't do that.

I mean, I said, no, because, you know, I got friends out there. I couldn't live with myself, but I didn't go back and suffer through what they were supposed. Infantries were rough, especially in the hundred first because we never went back home. We never went back to a base camp. I said one time I when I got malaria I was out in the field for 54 days so I was delirious and the in the matter of act temperature was like a hundred I don't know the they had a matter of attempt to let you out of the field unless you're 104 or something I don't know it is like a killer so that but we were down in the Someday Valley and he's got

to pouring water on me all the time to keep me from dying and I was taking Darvon to my temperature down. But nobody cares. I mean, they didn't care. But then what I was saying is, like when I got a helicopter back, I had no, I can't remember even getting on the helicopter.

I was laying there and I was freezing. And I got to this rear area. And I was, the first time I ever sat down and took a dump, because we, you know, we're in the field all the time. So I'm sitting in this guy. I said, man, you steak.

I said, yeah. I know. I've been in the field for 54 days. I haven't had a bath, but 54 days. Look at my uniform. You know, so, I mean, they were rough on you. I'm not going to remember one time they came out and they try to give us a hot child one time. And this guy comes out in the risk rear area. I don't know what he was. I don't know if he was a sergeant major.

I can't remember. He wanted us a dry shave out there. We didn't have water to drink. He wanted us a dry shade to get this hot child. Yeah. He told him to go screw himself. Hey, look, you know, we're going to get, we're going to get all kind of infection for dry shaving out here with no, with no water, and we're dirty as shit in the first place, you know. Yeah.

But anyhow, I think it's a lot about your, your peers and the people you're with, and, you know, back then it was, I forget who the president was. Maybe Johnson. Yeah, Johnson, I guess. I got a, the second tour is what I got pissed off of Johnson and McNamara, but. The first were, I just really didn't know. We never knew where we were. We relied on the platoon leader who sometimes an OTC guy got a loss all the time. You had to rely on your platoon sergeant.

We've been around a little bit. I mean, I don't know. The war then at the time, I think I was more worried about our attitude against with the civilians when I was in the infantry. like at one occasion we went to this village and this lieutenant told me to start burning hooches i said i'm not burning the huches these people this is their life their livelihood so he's burnt to rice and burnt the hootches i thought that was totally wrong and i couldn't overpower i mean i couldn't use the lieutenant yeah but in another occasion he the same guy we were down the same

valley and this lady comes in to complain they had a we had a scy one of those guys with us who spoke to be anese. He's a Vietnamese. And, you know, she was complaining because somebody killed her son and a cow. I don't know, or a water buffalo. So I'm right on a, I'm out on a trail when she walked by me, and then she's coming back on a trail. And he passed a word, he said, McCluskey, take her out.

She'll her shoot her in the back. I said, I said, you know, lieutenant, go ahead yourself. You want to shoot her? You shoot her. But that wasn't our mentality at the time. We went in that valley, they said, this is what kind of got me turned off about some of the policies over there. You know, we were told to go in this valley, and they had evacuated. They said, okay, if it's living, kill it.

It does not kill it. If it's not living, burn it. And, you know, that wasn't good for the populace too much. So I think a lot of times in the year I was there in the infantry, We probably killed more civilians than we ever killed Vyakon, taking truth.

That's my opinion. But, you know, I could be wrong. You saw Special Forces as like being a little bit smarter about how they fought the war? Yeah, because we're working with the indigenous people already. I had an indigenous team

and were on their side, and they knew that. And I think Special Forces were a little different because they worked with the populace. and they knew how to, you know, the medics out there doing their deal out there with the villages and all of stuff. So I think that was, when I got into Special Forces, that was a different story. So you graduated the Special Forces Training Group in 67.

No, no, 68. 68. Okay. And then you're heading back to Vietnam. Can you tell us about the second experience going back with SF and what happened you got in country? Okay, well, first of all, I stand in line with all my guys that graduated. We just graduated from phase two. They called a phase two back then. And all these, in the side of Nizola, who called me bull it at all time, I hear all these guys saying, where do you want to go, where do you want to go?

And he says, Vietnam, Vietnam, Vietnam. I really don't really have carried by going back with these guys. These are my little guys. You know, my, they might have been older me, but they're PFCs and the second one. So they all went to Vietnam, so I said, Vietnam. And I was also, good choice, McCloskey. So I ended up at the end of the fifth group.

So I get over to, I knew I was going to saw, because it says right on the orders, SOA special races and augmentation in the orders. So, you know, we had to do the Ontario Island thing and a little orientation stuff. And then we went up to the Nang, which is CCN,

with the headquarters of CC. saw CCN with the headquarters. That would be before. When I got there, there were four or five guys from my weapons class would be. They split us up. They sent Doug Luternan, they called me a Frenchman, sent them to buy, and above a shore,

John Shore, up to Fu Bai. I stayed at the name and they sent cloud down to and another guy that killed eventually was, David Me, was, I can't know his name, but anyhow, he was a common guy, so he was assigned to the talk.

So he, I didn't worry about him. Anyway, how they sent Clow down to SO-4 and a guy named Sheridan. Sheridan is the one that got missing, and so I Bob Howard got him in honor and went back to get to Sheridan's body. That was in December, 68.

But, you know, what we're talking about? So, yeah, you get, you get the CCN to command and control North. And you said, I think you told me initially that they didn't put you on a recon team. Right, yeah, they said me to, they signed me to QC, which is camp, can't defense us. And I hated mortars and shit. I didn't like borders. And that was a heavy one. Well, I was in, I could tell you a good story, but anyhow, we had to, you know, they had attacked that place in August.

68 I think and a lot of guys got killed. So the cat defense was important, but I wanted to be able to reconty. So anyhow, I went around, shopperon, and finally got on the R.T. Anaconda with Hood Gibson, Kevin's first thing. Anyhow, who was the stats ward? But he had been in 1001, so we were like brothers, you know. So I was his one-one. I supposed to carry his radio, right?

So I went on a mission, I went on two missions with Oote. But the first one was a disaster because all the norbeaten of the world came down on us. I mean, I don't know if I can tell you this, but we landed on this ridgeline. And it was wide, it was open. There was not, that's not an elephant grass. And I was with Gentry was a, Gentry was one of the guys that did the hayvote jump off CCM. gentry and I were listening to food on the radio I said who you look over there the whole north of these armies in the world's region armies coming after us I said we got to get out of here

you know let you call airstrikes or something you do something so he gets at a radio and he calls for an X field so they pick us up at this time we were using hughies from the 100thurt van like being there in loud they got all scared and stuff so they picked us up and of course they dropped us all on another LZ which is work Oh, my God. But luckily, luckily a whole bunch of people got hurt because they dropped,

these guys are so nervous on the first guys. I mean, I don't blame them because they get briefs and go to loud. It says, holy shit, going to loud, give you a break. We used to use King Bees, which were the Viti B pilots in our 834s. So they dropped us off and a bunch of people got hurt, so we ended up getting out of there. It was a really bad target. I don't think that, I think the last thing went in there.

at my age, they just missed, oh, just disappeared. I didn't want to be a disappeared person. So we get back and, I don't know, I have to tell you about Edington was, Pat Edington was an Asian American guy, a big guy. Yeah. Yeah, I was the first group. So he asked me, said, we, you, you want a strap hang with him on a mission camera radio? I said, yeah, sure, I'll go with you.

He didn't have anybody to go with him. And he dressed like NBA all the time. his team is all NBA dress and all that. So they sent us up to the DMZ to snatch a prisoner inside of DMC, which is, we were across the river, I think. So we're actually in North Carolina, I think. I don't know.

I can't remember. Good, good answer, Frank. Maintaining that plausible deniability. Well, I don't know. You can't remember what they cross over or not. Anyhow, we were in a DMZ, we were supposed to be in the Fulw aren't supposed to be there. Anyhow.

So the first LD, we were on two King Bs, and I was in the first one, he was in the second. And I got the King B, you know, I'm carrying his radio, so I'm running up the hill. And all of a sudden, the whole world starts opening up. And there are some rockets are going off. And we were being supported by the Scarface, what we call the Marine gunships. They're at Mike Mawter Gunship. And I told him, I said, check fire, check fire. He said, that's not us.

He said, you're in big trouble. There are fire rockets down trying to knock up out Eddington's second ship. So anyhow, we get out of there, and he says, man, he said, you're something else, but please, do you see all the green traces come by your ears? Because I was trying to climb up the steps of the CH47, which is just two steps.

enough in there, but there been one of the indigenous guys was hanging on my legs. We get in there and we get out of that one. So the second time, this is the same mission now. So the second day we tried to go in, we went on the hilltop.

And sure enough, and I was like, I was supposed to shoot someone in the leg and they were supposed to fall down and we're going to get them. Right. I had a silence, 22 pistol. And I had an NBA, shirt on, but I didn't look like an NBA, you know, but my team looked like him even editing. But prior to getting there, we landed LZ fuel, which is the Marine base. So we

landed at 834. And here's my point man sitting on the front door where the pit helmet on AK and it looked like an NBA soldier, right? And there's a whole line of RICO Marines sitting there, right? Automation. They locked on us. So I got out. I said, no, no, no, where I'm in America. And they said, why? They're still pointing weapons. And I said, hey, I said, hey, you're the team leader. You got out of handling.

No, you handle it. So I get out there and I'm talking to this major shows. I says, who are you people? I said, we're just, I said, this is classified project. That's where, you know, don't ask any questions. He said, what's your rank? I said, I said, I'm a colonel.

I didn't tell him that. I said, no. I said, no, I told him with a captain or something. And I lied to him, and we got out of there. I said, man, we almost got killed in there because of the region. And they start calling my guys' dukes and stuff. And they, you know, these guys understand the words, you know. And I said, you don't want to mess with my people. You know, I had like a, probably a six-man team on there.

And they're a bad asses. They don't take any, they were getting paid good money to kill people. So, anyhow, we get on that target. we get on the ground and sure enough a patrol comes up and I see a couple guys going from the side of the ridge

and it's probably about a squad I guess so he starts talking to our point man and their dialects are completely different and the point that gets nervous and he opens up he kills everybody

in a squad and everybody starts to open him up now I'm thinking oh my god I'm carrying the radio so I'm called so Eddie says

Pat says hey call called for a prayer for emergency I'll be right back I said what are you going he said I'm going to go get prison I said no

this is the bravest guy this is the bravest guy he's on Delta he was on Delta anyhow he goes he leaves me and I'm out there with these guys and I've known

the whole North Indian Army comes this hill and my guys are in the whole perimeter and the king news are coming in sure enough I hear a bunch of shots down below where eddington went and he said I couldn't get it further he goes back up I said what

okay all right so the team days came in they had to chop some top some trees down to get in to get us they ruined their blades and now we got on board we start taking rounds to tell him at 4.7 around it think big bowls

and we got out of there On the way back to the man, though, these Vietnamese piles, they flew over the bay and they were chasing ducks. They were killing ducks with rotor blades, and they're pulling ducks up. That's a dinner. No, that was just strap hang with Eddington. I should have won in a team, but, you know, he's a great guy, but he needed somebody to look Asian, so eventually he got out. A guy, Rual was like a Mexican-American. He looked Asian, so they ran together.

Did Eddington ever end up capturing some enemy prisoners? Not that I know. We've talked about it on the show before how MacB Sog, MacB Sog wasn't penetrated, but the command was penetrated because of the, did you guys know that, like, because every time you guys, guys got dropped off. Like there was a massive force waiting for you. Were you guys aware at that time that there was,

there were penetrations? No. I just assumed that since we went in by helicopter that they heard it and they put tractors on us and, but you're right. They, they were right on us. And what they did at the time was they,

they would let you like, I'll give an example. I went to the Ashire on one target. It was right. It was about, I don't forget how across the port. It was in support of the hamburger hill operations, the honor birth did. But there was so much stuff coming down in the Ashlar Valley.

It was incredible. But they sent me into a target on the 19th of March. It was Ashire 1. And I didn't realize at the time of any pay attention. But my friend got killed in Ash R2 on the 9th of March. But me and North Vietnamese, they had Ashford's in their name. It took them weeks to get the Hatch Force out. So here they are, turning around, send me back in there.

Six guys, right? Against the whole more than his army, basically. And as soon as I got on there, I picked up trackers. To this get there, regret, regret, not getting out of it at the same day because my point, man, Sal, I was behind it. We went to hill a little bit off the LZ. And I saw a whole opportunity out there. And I said, and this is the first time I never carried a radio.

And I'm thinking that they're not going to let me out of here. So I tell until my R11, you know, tell me we've got to leave. I shouldn't declare for emergency if I didn't. And I should have just engaged that platoon and got out of there. But I wasn't sure how much air assets were going to get killed or knocked down or whatever. it was like a hole to and

we stayed the night but that was a bad night I mean they were all around us there was they were banging bamboo and and everybody's you know we're all nervous

and the problem was I ran into was when I first RLN was Ron and Louer and ever remained overnight was kind of concealed when I got up and started moving they told me

Covey told me to move north, for what reason? I don't know. But anyway, it was wide open. It's like being in the forest in North Carolina. There's no cover. I said, holy shit. Then we picked up a tracker, and he kept shooting warning shots, you know, to try to channelize our movements.

And I thought, well, maybe just back into them and try to get out of it, because I already told him, see what are going to have a prayer farm urge here shortly, you know. and again, there's some air assets on the line standing by, you know, because during that time there's a bombing hall, Johnson has a bombing hole. So we moved, and I started going more. I tried to get up in the background. And as soon as I broke the, the ridge line,

I saw everybody eating rice and the shit and was empty. There's a whole base camp. And it's just me, me, it's ill, I'm four indigenous. I said, I said, well, let me back out of here. So as soon as I thought about leaving, before they saw me, the tailguner opens up, and he kills the tracker, right? Oh, man. The next thing I know, everybody's throwing rice bowl around, and they're getting our shit together.

We're running. We ran down the hill, and I got that point where I could probably get out because I was talking. Unfortunately, I didn't have a radio. I should have been talking to Covey. See him talking to talk to Covey. So I know I got that spot where it was far enough away where we get out on the strings of the Marlars. So I'm sitting there and we put McGraughtman in the sow were sitting together

and we're putting our Swiss seats on. And they hit us. And I mean, hit his heart. He threw about, I don't know, six. It's about six grenades at me, at me personally. The rest of the team was kind of behind on a little drop-off. It was just me, Sal, and the M-Sat 9 guy, up a little bit higher behind the tree. And the tree, first thing in the tree disintegrated in front of my eyes when I was sitting there.

They just missed my head. And then all of a sudden a bunch of grenades came. And I think Sal fell on a grenade, I think, and it blew up. And he was dead. If this guy, I regret not getting the mile there because the Buddhist believes that it had to have the body back. on it. But I just didn't think I could manage him and get the whole team out at the same time.

Because we had to get on strings. And of course the huge, you know, the military, the hundred first piles, they always take three people. Yeah, give me a break. There's five of us and they're little guys, you know. Yeah. If you don't take all of us where someone's going to die, one of the two. Because they were coming down that hill. You know what to be? I was way down. I went the way down and got in the collie.

I jumped on in me in the other indigenous guy on the second rig on the third rig. And they got all pissed off at me. We got back to underbrose me. My legs were like, they're, they fall sick because we're in a Swiss seat. That's your blood off. But I tried to continue. I couldn't talk to tilt because we're doing a, we're doing nine knots on the string, you know. You tell me. to set us down somewhere because I was dying in this rig because I had enough a guy with me. If I get back to

Cap Eagle, they set us down on LZ and this pilot, I couldn't even walk. The pilot goes to him. He says, ah, what are you doing? I told me five people, blah, blah, blah. I said, you know, it gets screwed, man. I'm alive. I can care less a bunch of helicopter. So you overtorped it. Who gives a shit?

You know? I'm going to get a guy there, you know? I'm a hell of it, but I know. So, anyway. For, just to clarify, because people might not appreciate, like, what, what you're saying right now. So for people don't know, like, a Swiss seat is you're tying nylon webbing in a specific, it's like a climber seat with nylon webbing. And then basically hooking into the bottom, hooking into the helicopter, so it flies off and you're dangling underneath it, correct? Or on the skid? Well, what happens?

They send a, they send a McGuire rig with. a big piece of canvas. You're supposed to snap into that, just as security. He was going to sit in the Marlari. It was a bad system. You put your hand up there, but if you're two of you in there, forget it. But mine, I kept falling out of the Swiss seat out of there, the big canvas. Loop.

And I was just hanging by the Swiss seat. And so your circulation is getting cut off because all of your body weight is like basically hanging. Hanging off my family. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you're cruising underneath this helicopter while it's boogging back to base.

Yeah. We're trying to avoid, because the Vietnamese are lighter than we were. A lot of times on a, when they would drop strings, we would, they would wrap around the Vietnamese because they're higher than we were. And they would strangle the Vietnamese. So we had to, you know, maintain the separation. we put our arms out and try to keep everybody

separated on those rigs. They weren't, then they came out with a stable rig which is much better as like a parachute harness. We hook with Cape Wells. Frank, that was, was that your last operation with Saga

before rotating home? Yeah, that was the last one. I decided I wanted to go home. That almost killed me there, that one. And was that, was that why you decided to,

leave the military at that point? Well, I was going to reinlist for flight school, but actually, I was going to relist and go to the flight school. And somebody he ate told me, he said, no. Because I was really close to getting out.

He said, just going to be a cop. Get out of this nonsense, you know? Because if you go to flight school, you'd be back quite twice before he'll have to get shot die. Who knows? That's my second tour, so. I got out and joined the police department. And yeah, so tell us a little bit about that about, you know,

your post-Vietnam experience joining the police department in D.C. And, you know, kind of like what that was like for you. And what year was this, by the way? I got out in May of 69. And I didn't get, I was only, I don't know, I wasn't 21 yet. So I couldn't get on to, I couldn't get on to police barman anyway. I was trying to go to the Pennsylvania State Police. And then I was having issues with my friends because they, you know, they didn't understand where I was coming from.

I already did two toward meeting on. I need people. They had no clue what was going on over there. Nobody did. They didn't care of life was going on. And I had friends getting killed. So I almost re-enlisted. I was almost going back in.

I was going to relish for the first group in Okinawa. But then I got to learn my friends said, no, don't do that. He said, they're going to dis, they're going to disband the first group, or whatever, blah, blah, blah. He says, he says, things aren't the same here. When I was running to recon initially, we had Colonel Warren was our commander. And we've got Colonel Isler, who really didn't give a care, he didn't give a shit about us. I mean, he put you back to back, back, back, back, back.

that. Like Jimmy Pruitt was a good friend of mine. He went through training group together. He got two DSEs. You got put him from out of water twice. He didn't get it at an easy time. But he went back to back to back. And he was a spec for him. And they had him carry a guy on up there for Devon because they had two DSEs and all his ribbons, a little bit of a couple of other wards. But they didn't care about you. They just let you all the ground. A lot of I think was because I think they were, this is my opinion, that NSA was using us to generate traffic from the North Vietnamese. The Air Force was using the excuse that we were in trouble to bomb because he couldn't bomb.

And I realize stories about it. He's like four-mile pilots and nine-four pilots are frustrated because they couldn't bomb. They would come to help us and they could only bomb when we'd call for a break-fire. emergency or whatever. But I think, you know, that's too many restrictions. We've got to win that war in 65 with the Air Force. Would it save $50,000 a profit, you know? We got to kick their butts with the Air Force,

especially those guys flying out of Thailand and the ones that sported allows, the law is still. What's the question? So after the war, I mean, so you have to, You had to wait until you turned 21 to join the police department. Yeah. Yeah, I worked. I started drinking pretty heavy.

And then somebody gave me one of the guys that took it to the bar. So he gave a job as a bartender. I went to drinking. And I wasn't even 21. He didn't even know it. So I was at a bar. And anyhow, I got jobs with underground construction. I was doing, I was drilling rocks and blowing them up.

It comes back to the reason why. agency. Anyhow, I was loaded holes and drone holes and put dynamite blown and sit up. So anyhow, my neighbor's son was a detective down in D.C. and the neighbor recruitment veterans. I said, this is great. I'm going to screw the PA state police. I'm going to get out of D.C. And they offered 8,000 a year.

I have big money. So I passed all the tests and went down to D.C. and got on the DC police party. And during that time I was a uniform, I joined 11 special boards group reserve even because I didn't know they had one, but they did. So I stayed reserved most of the time I was in the police park. I spent two years in uniform and I was one of the first uniform officers to get accepted into homicide. So I spent another eight and a half years in homicide. In DC at the time when I joined, we were under the federal government

retirement system. So a lot of guys are bailing out for various reasons. Most of them are reverse discrimination stuff. And a lot of guys bailed on and went to ATF EPA and stuff like that. And I applied to ATF. You want to tell me how I'm going to tell you how I got the ATS?

Yeah, yeah, please. So I applied to ATF and I went and took the test and I was pending on ATF because he didn't need to I don't have a degree so well I'm up talking to somebody at a reserve meeting Roger Shields he's a big old black guy from he's ex-New York cop we were friends so he says hey what are you trying to go I'm going trying to go to the ad give me your he says let me ask you some you know how to you still know how to trip a cap you know on a plastic cap I was of course he said okay

Give me your, back down the 171. So I gave him a resume. Next thing I got a call. It was supposed to be the Department of the Army, which I knew it wasn't. So I got down and did an interview with one of these off-sites in D.C. And sure enough, they hired me. My wife was all pissed off. Because I had like almost 12 years on the department, and I only ate to go.

But, you know, basically eight years, even then after you finish, it wouldn't kill me in the first place because I was working night shifts. Homicide, you're constantly working, going to court, going to trial, all that stuff. So I just wanted to break. I said, you know, I got to get out of here, you know. And this is a good opportunity. And I, you know, I can travel and, you know, maybe go overseas, whatever. That's what I'm going to do.

So they hire me. And I actually got hired by OTS, the DDS and the DDS and the tech operations office. And that's all demo stuff. I don't know if you guys know about OTS or about it. I mean, DST is a director of science and technology, right? But tell us about OTS. OTS is the Office of Technical Services. They have, I don't know if you saw a movie, was the one where the guy, he's one of our guys.

He was a disguised guy, went over there and took all those Canadians, all the prisoners out of, he pretended like in the film, film produced. Mendez. Mendez, yeah. Yeah, Tony Mendez. He was an OTS. We were to say, Bill, and I knew him and his wife. Anyhow, OTS has a bunch of, they have the skies and a bunch of stuff that you can get it to.

Mostly scientific stuff, but in the SAD, back then it was called Special Activities Division. We were like their knuckle draggers. It was a demo thing. And basically, when I first started, we were, actually going to go back. When I reported it in for the first day, I see this guy in the back of the room. room was a big huge career and he's like six three and I we're the only two guys in that look like we're knuckle trackers the rest of them are shoes out so it was the first day orientation so I go back and I said hey I was going he says good where you

going I said OTS he's where it's the SAD he said me too turn to be a Navy seal who was detailed so we we got on anyhow so when I first started we we were reading, you know, we were trying to defeat some of the initiation devices. Like terrorist devices, we were looking for terrorist devices.

Basically, I was sitting there message driving about any terrorist device in the world and try to try to analyze it to how they were initiating explosives. You know, bomb. And one of the worst ones, Turco and Wilson were both

agency guys, and they developed a decade timer when you're in Libya. That thing, you put a naval barrier on and blow the whole world up, you know, basically. But anyhow, and we're teaching, it was a teaching thing. And, but then we go into the control one. And they said, that's when they sent me down to Honduras for, for, my first TDI. As a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a demo guy. Yeah, but we were doing technical stuff.

We're teaching them how to search vehicles. We had like portable x-ray machines. They were very considerate. They wanted to try to stop the arms movement, you know, into these countries. But, you know, we had all this technical stuff who were given these people. We would go down there and train them a little bit how to search vehicles. looked for concealants in vehicles, looking for arms, not drug with arms. So the first tour was kind of bad.

Honduran's, I never really respected his officer too much. They were mostly state, kind of thieves. I didn't like them too much. So I only went there for about a month, and then I went back and then I ended up and walk a month. That was my favorite place. And we were doing the same thing there. We built a nice facility, and we had a,

same situation where we're looking for arms, interdict to arm traffic into Guatemala. And they had been searching there. But it was, you know, we backed up traffic from Guatemala City all the way back to Panama. And we never found nothing. So I didn't speak Spanish at time. So I just captain Petasina, or they put a theme. I say, look, we need to start collecting Intel, but that was my. my theory.

So he agreed with me. So, okay, let's try to focus this on the borders. I said, where's most of the problems? He said, Mexico. I said, okay. So this is about the fireplay. Anyway, he agreed with me,

and I didn't speak Spanish, so I was going through an interpretant. I felt very bad because I couldn't talk. And what I really wanted to say to him. So we go to the way with Tanango and talk to the S2 up to it. he spoke perfect English because he went to West Point and he was a he was a criminal or major he told us he said don't go to that village because we met we met a civilian similar we were going to with civil defense they were just indigenous guys

carrying him ones you know they try to protect your village but do not so we were going right on the border north west border of guacamala to arbor sarah was the village where we met this guy at the military base and he was going to meet us the next day. So we drive all the other than it. We're hungover because, man, he's going on the long they drink. Well, you know, we're driving up there and I was half full and sleep all the time. So we, I had my interpreter and one driver in the cinema.

We get to the village and where he gets out, he's talking to Damien, and all of a sudden the whole world, there's, there's a village. there's a big firefight started. So Edgar, he wakes me up and says, Hey, go with Jorge. All I had was, the agency issued me a briefcase

with an oozy three magazines, right? So I get the Oozzi out. I think I took two. Maybe I took all three magazines. I can't remember. But I had three weeks of them. Now, I'm running behind Warhe. And there's one Indian behind me with a carbeat.

So he's trying to flank the, fire fight from the opposite side. The right front is now we're going to go right. So what we're going on in his corner. I see all this, all this looked like a whole platoon walked through there. You can tell on the lead, you know, on the ground where somebody really marched through there

to get on top of that hill. So he started up the hill and we start taking fire and he didn't pay attention. I mean, I started hearing like, it was probably five, five, six. and it's popping over our heads and I said, I got to tell him where he's stopping I don't know how to tell him to stop, you know.

So we get this big boulder on about halfway up to slope and I'm huffing and puffing and he decides go out and open the go he decides to go flanks that stupid ambush by himself. He had an M-16, we were in civilian clothes.

I had an eye that shirt on and put brave hands, right? And dockers. So he goes out past that rock and it's all of a sudden to hear this 7-62 open up and I know it's a foul here boom boom boom and all of a sudden he starts screaming

he's calling for me you know I said god no continue Frank so he's out there screaming in the end in he looks at me and he he poised his weapon like he didn't have an ammo he's gone right he leaves because he knows

they're in trouble so I'm thinking oh this guy's going to I got to go and get him but I'm thinking that guy that shot him was pretty good you know would have found because he he's someone automatic I'm thinking I'm kidding they don't have much animal so far I have a magazine on my

Ouzi and I run out and I grab Jorge and luckily didn't shoot at me but I should have got his I should have got his bag of grenades in his M16 so he was a indigenous bag to watch the can be made some magazines.

Come here and something close. Well, that's his M16 land out there, which is stupid. You know, I keep you on this rock. And he was hit bad. I mean, his intestines broad. He hit through both thighs. He was hurt. He asked me, he gave me his, he gave me his Beretta.

He wanted me to shoot him in the head. I said, I'm not going to leave him. I try to put him in a farmer's carry, right? to garen down to get out of there. And he started screaming. He said, no, no, no, no. Yeah, he said, I don't know. The best time I had a blot over my end, he wouldn't go. He wouldn't move. And I said, okay, let me see if I can figure this out of how to tell him what to do. So I ran down to the, there was a border fence. So they shot him a few times one way down there, and he stood up. And I started firing. I gave my hand, come on down, hurry up. So I kept shooting. And I was down

of like five rounds in my last magazine. And I kept, you know, because I thought if I put on automatic, I got plenty of ammo, you know, even though I was running out. So anyhow, he gets to me and I get him over the fans, then we get out of there. And the other team members came and got us in a truck, but he was hurt. I didn't even get him. I came, huh?

Frank, just that, who were these dudes who were shooting at you? Like, how did this all happen? Well, these are the ETP. with the eresto poor with EGP. Anyhow, they were a guerrilla group out of Mexico.

Oh, man. They were the ones who were smuggling arms across the border? Well, they're the ones. They were fighting, like, the Guatemala had three fronts with the EGP, the Orp and the FAR up in

the, up in the batan. And these are insurgents. They were trying to take over the, you know, take over the country. You know, just like El Salvador, same thing. But they're mostly based on a Mexico up there in Miami. Okay.

So you get your teammate down to, I mean, you extract them out of that situation. Well, we went, we got in that vehicle. I didn't have to give him mouth to month because he had a really bad. I knew he needed a chest tube because I was a homestide detective. I know exactly what they're needed. But we're out of nowhere. So we had a, we had no radio, no nothing. So we get down to this village and I sent a telegram back to the, my technician sent a telegram back to the city and told them what happened.

So they finally sent a helicopter to give us. But Jorge died like five days later maybe. But he told everybody that I saved him. I don't know if I did or not, who knows. But at the time, the agency was going to fire me because I was on, I was on, I was on, probation and they said I put myself in harm's way and I didn't know this at the time but surely after that surely after he died I was even part of that funeral which is very rare for a gringo to be nearing a cask I mean and I kind of opened up relations with the Guaramo

because they didn't trust it because carver cut him on and most of their military gear came to Israel. So I was probably instrumental in that position right there to open up our relations with the Guatemal more than anybody because they love me. I mean, I was going to get fired. Huh? You proved yourself to them. Yeah. Well, I stuck by Horanagan. Who were you told me some of the same my life. Anyhow, I'm probably getting ready to get fired. So I'm at this meeting with all these intelligence groups from all over to Central America. And I just speak ordering Spanish. So my boss said to me, he said,

hey, they're talking about you. I said, what do you mean? He said, they're talking about you. This colonel shows up and he gives me this, Bruce de Merit, no, what do you give me? Bruce of the Forza de la Tierra. It was just a minor award, it's a metal. But there's a decoration from them for St.

Jorge. So that forced to hand at the 18. Are they going to fire me? Right. Right. Make the fire me not. The ball and gave him a medal. So then I find out later to see, let's put me in for the dome score.

So I stayed there for, let's see, how old, I went back after my TDIW, I forget. Anyhow, that's some men of me with the bottom one. I was like in with like playing with those guys. And then how long did it take your before they awarded you with the intelligence star? Oh, it was exactly one year for the date of that combat. I was in Spanish language school. And I got notice that I was going to get the intelligence star. When I was the 25th of May, 1984, I got to tell them to that actually happened on one year prior to the date.

Wow. And Casey signed it, but McMahon was the deputy director. His son of a cop in D.C., so he really wanted to present it, so he did. So I got it from deputy director McMahon. That's very cool. Yeah. And the intelligence star for people who are to know is equivalent to a silver star. Yeah, yeah, yes, exactly.

Yeah. And then you had, you spent a lot of time. going back down there, back down to Central America, after, you know, Spanish language school and everything else. You want to tell us about, well, before we dive a little bit deeper into your time down there, could you tell us like kind of broadly speaking from your perspective as a CIA officer, what was going on in Central America at that time? And why were we there?

What were we trying to accomplish? Well, I'm going to more on in El Salvador, it was a counterinsertency type situation where's that. So when you're Sanneita, the Nicaragua, providing weapons and arms to the insurgents in Guatemala and in Guatemala, in Guatemala, in Nicaragua, they're already taken over. So I was, can I get back and say what happened? Yes.

After all this, I was getting, I went down there, PCS and to, this was a, this was a TDIWI, I want to get that middle, the television store. So I go back and my boss, Jack McCabody, he takes me down there on a PCS to set up like an Intel net in Guatemala. And I worked there three years, I guess. And that's when I started flying because they didn't want me out there in the road anymore. So they ran the helicopter. I got my private and commercial hormone helicopter license.

And basically just to do my job because it's out in the boonies. And I was just setting up communications gear and all that stuff, which I hadn't learned about because I had no clue what to do. And, you know, they sent guys down to train you and you end up doing it yourself. So I did all that. And then Jack left my best, my best buddy, Jack McCabble was going to COS. He was the best boss ever had. And he went to El Salvador. The new guy, he didn't like anybody that was friends with Jack, I don't think.

And there's this big party at the new guy's house. And Alan Fires, who was the chief of the Senate of the Marine Task Force. So I'm talking about wife, and I said, what the hell did he want to give him to my wife? You know, because he was a snake. I'm sorry, Alvin. But anyhow, he comes over to me. He says, hey, Frank is he speaking of that Indian dialect time? I said, no, why.

He's what? I got a proposal. because I want you to take over the mosquito coast for us with the mosquito Indians up in Honduras. I said, yeah, I'm going to do that for you if you want. He says, yeah, but I really need to do it. And here's the deal was it was a political issue because Congress wasn't going to vote for money for Congress again. So they needed to use the Indians as they were persecuted by San Francisco. So in order to get the boat, they needed the Indians on their side, you know,

or basically use them as a way to get the funding. And the guy that was out there, I mean, he was out there stuck in the middle of nowhere. He couldn't. There's no roads out there. And I felt so hard for him because he stuck out. They sent me out there to check it out. I said, I told Alan and said, look, I don't know. I take the job, but you have to give me a helicopter.

He can't get around out there. He said, okay, you got a helicopter. No problem. I took the job. That was one of the best jobs they had, really. I was in charge of the Atlantic Front of the contra board. They had the ERM was the main contras, and then we had the Atlantic Front.

I mean, those guys are peaceful. They're just the Indian. They didn't want to fight. But they did a good job for me, and I helped them. And I guess I got their funding guys at their conscience work. We had Rick Prado on the show before, and I mean, he talked about how, like, the Indians, the mosquitoes, like, became very proficient at what you guys were training them to do. Yeah, yeah, they, like, I'll give any example. They gave me a target, Zikarwa, and they wanted to hit.

It turned out that it required more than I could have been an SF for a little time. Last time I saw a mortar, you know, back in Vietnam. So I ended up taking my guys and trained by the Special Forces guys on how to set up a, I was setting up a specific target with my Indians. And they accomplished what they were supposed to do. Basically, I gave them all the targeting and where to set their mortars up and stuff. They did it all around because they were using pangas, you know, Seagongong and pangas were just a 35-foot fiberglass boat.

with a boat fiberglass liner with a couple of inches on the back. You know, they're going down there in Lankajosia, and they're good people. They know what they're doing. And I sent them on that target and that's probably what elevated me a little bit because they weren't really doing much when I got there and some people were avoiding giving them any equipment and I got them equipment and I got them. I had a hard time with this. one that are in the military out there with these guys, you know, because they're refugees kind of,

and the colonel didn't like me at all. And I can tell you why, I stopped buying rice from it. He was stealing my guys, my Indians rice and put it through his machine that shook the shell off and selling it back to me at a inflated price and it wasn't even a hundred pounds, you know what I mean? So my Indians told me They say hey that you're still in our rice I said okay let me tell you something How did you do it before the machine You said well

The women threw it up in the air and a shell small Well start doing that Because there's no sense you take a rice from down there Bring it all the way up here And I got to get all the way back down there You know so I was trying to educate them And I told him I said look I'm not going to be around forever I said you start planting beans

And start cultivating rice because I won't be here record and you need to start being self-sufficient, which it became, you know, basically. I even got to move across the border into Colorado. And so can you tell us about some of these operations that you were able to send the indige on? Well, the only big one was they sent me, they wanted to go after a bar lock radar site down in Portugal, Asas, which was, I was, I did the mobile site, and I said, kids doesn't make sense because they're just going to pull them out the the rest of them are

going to put new one in there you know but basically they were they were sending uh we were sending we were sending the plague uh planes down the coast to drop stuff to the in the concert in country there in in nicaragua and this barlock radius i was lock onto them they're they're afraid we're going to get one shot down like awesome foods you know got shot down at dc 10 or not DC 9 bc 9 Anyhow, they wanted me to knock out of radar. And it took a while to plan on that. At first I started teaching them because we had 82 million.

We had the silient mortars. And I started teaching them, but I forgot all about, I forgot all about parallel guns and stuff. I said, I have a way I could do this. So I said, look, let's let the SS guys do it. That's their job. You know, these guys, they're experts. So we took them to a second place and they trained them.

And they loved it. They thought they were. I forget where they thought they were, but they had no clue where they were. Because there was a black flight out of there and from there back to Honduras. Yeah. Anyhow, they, they launched under boats and knocked that site out for like, not 48 hours, I guess. So they got a kudos for that. And then, you know, the other thing I did was,

the sort of a fortune sends these two guys out to me. Well, actually my boss says, hey, you got two guys in Solven Fortune magazine. They've been hanging out with the regular concerts, and they say, all the regular concerts is doing it going in a circle, and they're going to Nicaragua. So they want to know if you can give them to Nicaragua. That's his course. So they send these guys out, and one guy was a writer,

he had the photographer. And I flew them down to the Rio Coco, which is the border from Honduras to Nicaragua. And I hooked about with my Indians. They took them in there, and they got in all kind of trouble with the San Luisas. I mean, my guys ambushed a column, which was too big for the category. Anyhow, they finally got back. And one guy says, man, this is called the Mfleski Weight Loss program. They both.

They both lost like 40 pounds. But I got them both back safely. And they hands me a canister of the film. He took before they left. And they wrote it in a good harvest called Mosquito. Mosquito ambush was called. Remember the name of the author, Frank? Because I have this book from Peter Kukalus, Soldier of Fortune writer.

Peter Kukalas? Yeah, it might be. Did you anything about Afghanistan? Dan. He was all over the place, man, but I know he was down in Central America a few times. I got a picture,

but I don't have his name. Oh, okay. So those guys got out of there in one piece? Oh, yeah. I had a six-pack of Hineas in the back of the helicopters. They're all appreciative. The guy, the writer was,

Ian did a story about Afghanistan about the Mujahideen. I took it around the same. The photographer was just a photographer. You know, he was good. You know what he was going. Yeah. And, you know, you shared some of those pictures with me.

I think one of them is on the banner image for this, for this video of you out there on the mosquito coast. I mean, it's incredible stuff. Yeah. Yeah, I have good pictures out there. So the mosquitoes, I just out of curiosity, because they just wanted to live their life, right? They didn't care about the Contras or the Sandinises or democracy or communism. They just wanted to live their life. Like, how did you sell them?

I know they, I know you said they were sort of, they were persecuted by the San Anises. But is that essentially how, what got them involved in the war? Well, I think they just wanted to be autonomous. You know, parallel to my working with the Milton. military side of the mosquito Indians. They had a political side, which is a stubborn faggot and I forget, Brooklyn Rivetta.

They had an old political side that was run by the State Department. Okay. Unbeknownst to me, they were negotiating with San Francisco way before. I knew it. You know, so eventually they didn't want to go fight because they're

very peaceful people. and they didn't want to go in and get their asses to care. I picked a lot of them up, a lot of them with jellicotty got blown up with landmines over the other side because they would go across and try to see the families and get, they step on a landmine or, you know, it's bad. I mean, they're just, they were just very peaceful and they really didn't want to be fighting war,

but they wanted their land back, you know, so they would do what they had to do, you know. And they had gold up there. the northern part of of Nicaragua like the last part of my tour we were out there pan of gold for like I don't know

a month before they were you know we're out pan of gold and Rio Coco with my Indians you know because they that was their they had like five pounds of gold and a nations are all me to take back

to the States of cell for them I said I can't do that yeah but I was ordered picks and shovel, bean seeds. I was trying to make them self-sufficient. Yeah. And try to get them to, and I moved them across to the very edge of Honduras Nicodava, moved across into their habitat, where they lived in the first place, you know.

And so, Frank, were you flying also at this time? You were flying the helicopter? Well, yeah, I had a helicopter very much. I was assigned one to take rent for me. But see, the law was that I couldn't talk operations within 20 miles of borders. I had to get on, pick a bob, drive them up to 20 minutes. But, I mean, but I help because I could medevac some of their wounded and stuff like that. So this is, I mean, a really, like, interesting, unique thing you were doing, Frank,

because, I mean, you were an advisor to this paramilitary force. You were flying helicopters. You were trying to create a self-sufficient community. building up their agriculture and, you know, panning for gold. I mean, you were kind of like a one-man band down there, it sounds like. Yeah, yeah, that's, the Indians love me. They, uh, well, I thought ordered, I would start order some shovels and stuff for the, the gold thing. My boss said, what the hell are you doing order to eat season gold?

I said what, I mean, beat season, shovels and picks, that's about. I'll tell you later. Because I knew at the time, negotiating peace. These guys, we stuck with a long-known military, and those military guys, the whole-de-military blast, they were still on everything they had from them,

you know, the whole and everything. They were very bad, you guys. I got the big argument that Corona off there, and he says, he told me he was the king of mosquito. I said, no, I'm a king of mosquito. Me, I'm the king.

And we had a big argument, and he almost started to kill me a couple times. He had sent people to kill me in the Fortalanta, you know. They tried to shoot me in the back and stuff like that. He tried to throw me up on the troll boat one time, you know, trying to take it. Yeah, he, what was the rice deal? I cut off his money and I wasn't paid, you know, the other guys were, I told my boss, he said, why come he can't get along with Colonel?

What was his name? And how come he can't go on with him? I said, let me tell you something. I even have to be with the Indians or have to be with him. with the Honduran. What do you do? Okay, I'm an Indian, so I've got to be a bad guy at Honduran, you know. And he didn't like me.

Bad, it was bad. So. I heard a couple times because he actually took me out of trouble one time, told me he was going to show me some sites of the mosquito coast. And he said, okay, we're going to play a game out here. He had two of tennis with them. And he said, we're going to see who's going to throw Major Frank. me a major. I didn't want a major. I was special force as that. Yeah, sorry the first class.

So yeah, I said, I was going to try to throw Major Frank off the boat. And I looked at him, I says, no, no, Colonel. And the first thing I did was I throw him off the boat. They're doing like, they're doing like 15 knots, you know, and they're going to try to throw me up both these two lieutenants. So what it is, I throw him off of him off of him. He gets all pissed off. Then I had a white team with tenants. I threw them off. The next thing you know, they're all wet and drunk. They're too drunk to even good, you know.

So we go back to Portland Pid and I said, look, I'll buy a case of beer and let's call it even, you know. But don't try to kill me in Canada. They'll try to take me out there and dump me in the middle of nowhere, where I can't go anywhere, you know. But he and I didn't get along the whole time out there. Yeah, man, yeah, talk about Dicey. Yeah, did, did,

Did the U.S. government respond in any way to him, like, trying to have you killed or anything like that? No, I never told him. He threatened to come out with the helicopter and shoot up my Indians because when I moved them across, I had a couple of villages on the river on Honduran side. So he threatened to go with the gunships and shoot up my Indian camps. That's there. Let me tell you something, Carl. I gave these guys three red eyes.

He said, go ahead and try it. I had given them three, I had three red eyes out there that I trained them on. Oh, shit. So, you know, then he got scared. He said, he got red eyes. Oh, shit, I got red eyes. He didn't know it. I said, don't try to hit my people, please.

You know, because they'll shoot you down, you know. So how did that deployment come to a conclusion then? What happened was peace broke ice and they gave the UN the Indian problem and it was so sad because I was out there and the UN was dropping food to them and they're putting it right in the swamps. They're trying to do three drops with rice and beans and it just burst it all over the place all over the place. Yeah. It just looked at me, says, can't you stay? I said, I don't know. You in says, I can't stay, you know.

But it was bad. So when I left, they, they, they, uh, it was still in the peace process. So I ended up, uh, I mean, my boss asked me to stay until December, which my wife wanted me to come home. So I said, nah. And I was getting burned out because they had so many problems out there. one man he can't handle it. You know, the UN get mad at me because I would go into the refs you can't

to where my Indians fan who lives and try to help them. They would get all pissed up because they called me a war monger and all stuff by them. And I had this one hospital out there in a was any place that was close by where I took a couple of soldiers

and they they basically warmed up to me because I brought people in there and the doctor in there was was a mosquito Indian. They called me a war. They were very religiously. They thought out of a war monger.

They called me. I said, then eventually they started to bite me up to play volleyball. I said, okay, that's a good thing, you know. But I had to be, I was by myself out there. I mean, it was different. And so after that trip down to the mosquito coast, I mean, what was the next step in your career with the agency?

see? Well, I was heading to El Salvador, so, but I didn't, I couldn't go see what I looked in July. So I did some TDIWise, that's why I got in that drug, you still there? Yeah, yeah, I'm here. Getting this low system resource may affect you. Yeah, sorry about that. So I can get rid of it or? No, we can hear you fine. Yeah, you can get rid of that.

So I'm back in the States and I did another TDIW back to Honduras to help somebody out. I just filled in for Thanksgiving or something like that. So it's okay, we want you to get on and try out this cardinal archer program in Mexico City. I said, oh, it doesn't sound good, you know. Did I tell you this one? I told you. No. No, you haven't told me about this.

I never heard this story. So I got a Mexico City, it's just a TDI, and they want me to, Brown Branch had set up like an arrest team kind of situation where they had this group of Mexican soldiers that were at this base and they had trained them and all kind of stuff. I don't know. I didn't know the whole story because there was no message traffic. They said it was restricted to Hamings.

They treaded everything every day. So I get down there and I, and I was supposed to deal with the Minister of Justice for the... He's the only one of what's doing. And so I'm getting briefed by the boss. And I guess the scariest thing they did is they gave me a copy of the Camarena portrait tape. They said, this is what you get. So they said, this is what you're getting in, too.

I said, well, I don't know what this job. or not. You know, so it was very bad. So they gave me a target up in Matalong. Guy named was Cochi Loco. He was, he was in the movie Narcos Mexico. He was a guy carrying a, he was a, he was a village guy out of those big smuggler getting everything across the border for Al Descartes. Honey, I go up there to meet his team and I didn't trust them one bit. And I had this target so they took two new times when we down to Monceola and they dropped me off the DEA's office. And I talked to the DA guys. So man, you burnt now because you walk in here. Everybody knows the DEA. So it's a quick story.

So anyhow, the two guys, we will buy at Coach E. Occo's house, which is a palace. I mean, he owns a couple of hotels and Mr. Frog, all kind of stuff. He's very wealthy. By this time, he was walking. He was going a lot of cocaine for for Pablo Escobar across the border. So I'm looking for him, and he, he wasn't home in his palace. So they dropped me out at the hotel.

He's two lieutenants, and I said, I'm out of here. So anyhow, I'm in a bar drinking with a Spanish tourist. This guy, we were drinking tequila and sangitas. So he said, let's go to the disco. So we start walking. talking about his hill from my hotel. And this is a really nice disco. But I see these two guys.

They're watching. They phone me. They're watching the lie. They're not in the lie. I think I'm taking me in trouble. But anyhow, we get to the, him and I are one of these stand-up bars. And this guy shows up and he says,

he tells me to look over by the bar, on the bar, he points. And look over there, these two guys standing that I saw behind me, well, you know, way behind me. one of them pulls his coat over and he's got a saw-daw shotgun in there. So the guy told me, he said, it turns out of the silly guy out. He said, we're going to take you outside and put that shotgun in your mouth.

I said, nah, not tonight. If you're going to kill me, you're going to kill me in here. Well, I try to talk a way out of it. Look, he said, there's very two kind of gringles that speak Spanish like you do. And that's the DEA or CIA. And I said, well, then I knew he knew what it was. I said, now, I don't know. I was in the 7th Special Forces Group down in Panama.

I said, it's put forward to all the time. And this is all in Spanish. And my Spanish is really good because they lived in the Mesquita Coast, but they're big word of English for like a year. So he starts laughing stuff. I said, well, I'm not going outside of here. I can tell you that right now. He says, okay, okay.

He tells me, maybe you can come up to my farm tomorrow and ride Appaloosa with me. So I asked him, he's gay. I said, are you a Coletto? And he started, you'll see how much of colloero I am. He's kind of right out. He's like the head of the Cinelloa Corpelt.

He was a silly guy. You know, so he wants to kill me. I thought, I'm thinking not what I'm doing. But I had given the Spanish guy, the VA guy's card, and the guy saw me give it to him. And I said, go call this guy and tell him I'm in trouble. And I never thought,

he would call the guy, called the DA guy, right? The all was the number. It was back then, I mean, so it was all, it was all whether you can get a phone booth, you know. And that guy did because he, he heard that guy say he's going to kill me, right? So next thing I know, the two bodyguards, they leave. And I'm standing at the bar. I think, what am I going to do now? Because the DA guy initially, when I went in the city, he says, take my 45 because you're going to need it.

I said, no. They locked me up here in Mexico. They won't allow me to have a weapon. I'm working counter-narcotics. I can't have a weapon. So anyhow, he comes and gets me. He said, that guy owns the city. I said, yeah, he said, I know.

I said, well, he got me down to Portoia. I went back to Mexico and see him. Hey, keep your job. I'll see you later. But I reported all that stuff. So they had to get you the hell out. Get you out of dodge. He got me out of there.

He said, you're lucky. So that guy, he's ahead of the whole thing, a little cartel. So did you keep working that Mexico City mission, or they get you out there? No, no. I went back and I told me, I said, I want your job. No, thank you. I'm looking for a real safe counter-conservency. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. But I knew I was going to end up what I saw what it was, which I did. That was the next stop. Yeah, the next stop. went down in Salvador and I took over. They had a, we had an advisor to their special operations group, special. They called the boy, the group of operations specialities there. My buddy set it up, and it's just like CCN.

He had the recon teams and hats and forths, right? So that was the perfect spot for me. But they don't need any advice. All they need is money. So I got there, I'm not sure we gave me any advice. I didn't share me any advice because they do what they're called. That's their country, you know. But I was like their bag man.

You know, and I'd give them stuff that we might want them to do or might want them not to do, stuff like that. It's like Guatemala. My boss told me, Guatemala, my boss told me, Guatemala, says, Frank. Your primary job here is to prevent the Walmart from committing human rights violations. And I did. I saved a lot of civilians with Guatemala. because they were brutal. The soldiers were brutal. And everybody that wasn't a soldier was an enemy, you know, to them. I try to convince them you can't do that here. I try to be more like a SF kind of guy. You know, you got to get people on our side. We got to have them on our side. Otherwise, otherwise you're going to lose a whole war. Eighty-five the city of countries, Indians, you know, ethnic. know, anyhow.

But the same, now, Salon or the, those guys are very, those guys, all of, someone had been to the SF training group. So most,

most of the, all the piles of training at Rutger, they're the best possible for someone like. And, I started running the, but I didn't run it, I just was the advisor to that group. And I was like the deputy chief of air ops.

Mm-hmm. And, in the meantime, I used to be on the OTS, which is way, I was way out of that parameter. So somehow, paper, it put me into a ground branch. I didn't even know it until Pang Lut told me in hallway. Hey, I could be able to shut me off this one? I don't know where it is, basically. So then I, when I, when I, I really took, I took one of them, they attacked the city in

sell work. And my air off boss had a family and stuff, so he decided to bail out. So they make me to achieve their ops. So now I'm an air branch. Because I'm flying, you know, I'm flying

just about every day. You know, we're just, we had these listening sites on these mountaintops. And we would be amazing out every five to ten days, picking supplies, wasn't a big deal. It just as a trash hole, you know, but we had to do it. And sometimes it was dangerous because of the wind's not stuff. What I might tell you is that when there's one night to San Deneas, a plane crashed out in the

South Coast by Usuala Town, and it's full of SA7's missile, not full of a load of SA7 missile. Oh, my God. So we're thinking, I'd have got a missile. Well, sure enough. The first thing they shot down, we had just finished overhauled on these two AC-47s

with turbine tarbent packs, which was a lot of money. And they shot, the first one they shot down with the AC-47 with the missile. And then they shot my friend down, and he built, one bad guy built, it was A-37,

a little dragonfly. fighter bomber. They shot him off the tailpipe and it blew up the copilot side. A pilot got out. So now we know we've got missiles. Now we're in trouble. So we started flying at night so they, I convinced my boss Hank, who used to be like the big boss in the ground branch to let me go to,

he was the liaison, she said. He says, I have to get a night visit gargle course. and fired off on it. And I was out there flying around a night with a settlement. And it was fun. I had a good time. We had the flight of gun ship a couple nights, you know.

We even dropped bombs out of the Huey. We jumped 500 pylons off there. Off a Huey? Yeah, we had a bomb rack. We had an Israeli bomb rack with two 500 ponderers on the inboard rack. The outside of a boatboard rack was flared. I'm telling you.

The Sout one orange very smart. They were dropping bombs off out of, when I first, when the first of Texas City, they were dropping bombs on. I knew they'd drop bombs off helicopter because they saw it. They came in with a, aloeette.

But he had was a piece of duct tape on a windshield for the site, you know. Yeah. And he wasn't very accurate. But the way we did it, it was pretty accurate. And they, And I did a couple of, I shouldn't have done that, but I did.

I was out there. Fine, fine ops under night vision. Yeah, we're doing MVP training. Yeah, that's right. But I graduated, I graduated in deep forcing. Actually, I was probably the only ringer ever got a set of several armed flight wings. Maybe not, but I think. They gave me my wings.

Actually, President Christiani. That's wild. And me and one of the army colonels went to the most of the flight train. He got his wings, him and I put together. Ressum were just students. And him and I got our wings together. It was nice.

Were you there when that, when that agency bird got shot down and it kicked off the whole Iran-Contra thing? Oh, no, that was hospital. No, that was hostage. That was, I think I left out of Lomba. Yeah. I wasn't there yet.

was, I think what a ball. Yeah, yeah, that was bad. He's a kicker in Louse for Air America. I don't know if you do that or not, but. I think I heard something about it, yeah. Yeah, he was a kicker in a house. I read a book. He's in the book a couple times.

He's a kicker. That's why they hired him because he's a Marine Corps of Rigger. And he, plus he had, he was a free faller, too. He was free fall. That's right. His brother just bought him that parachute that he used. Well, speaking of which, Since you were down there, were you ever flying like the, like when the Delta guys came down there and stuff, where you flying the military dudes, too?

Oh, yeah. Well, when the, when the girls that talked to City, there was SS 18. In the hotel, yeah. Yeah, that was sharing, I think it was. Anyhow, we try to get to my buddy guys who get in there, but they got shot up pretty bad on the route. and a couple of RPGs were flying around. One day my boss said, hey, we've got to be down to come a lot and pick up these Delta guys to get this SFT team out.

So there were three of us, I don't know, three of us flying hughies. We flew down and picked up these guys and they're wearing a flight suits. That's all. And they're in a big old, I don't know, C-141, maybe one there, I don't know. 141 I think. But yeah, we picked them all, took them all in the city, right? And I knew what they're going to do. They're going to try to hit that hotel. Well, come to find out. Those S.F guys, they were long gone before they, they already left the hotel there, time, time, drink. You know, that's that team. They weren't even in the hotel. They already escaped. They already got out of there. Because we had like 100,

what they called me a 99 I think it was that by the age of South Salvador you still there yeah yeah anyhow I think they did it say we're one of the 99 or something like that but we also had DTLEs working with us in all the

brigade we had we actually had one of that stuff got to get killed out in the more attack out in the military's other four in Chalachanan no Chiloh yeah So like the H. Elton Angle. He got killed down there.

I do working with the Salman Orange. The seventh-pish horse guy. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I'm so sorry. It's squipping my mind. Crohnius. Yeah. Yep.

Greg Cronius, I believe his name was. And when we had Greg Walker on the show, he told us the story about how their camp got overrun. Yeah. The guerrillas, you know, blew up his remains. sadly. Yeah, my boss were out there

the next day. Fronius. I'm sorry, it was Fronius with an F. Yeah. And my boss flew out there. I wasn't there at the time. I was in the normal

where Honduras maybe, but my boss was out there to try to get it all hashed out. Jack was a great boss, but I'm going to hear another story where the couple guys come over from Honduras.

they wanted to pick up some oil go out with their beer or whatever they flew over from uh solacano i think and they landed in la pongo and they're in hughies so i had just i just uh i was flying low level

for a day and i had taken some bunch of rounds i thought i was found us i was swamble up something hughy and i just dropped up a bunch of troops but a radio site place and i was empty and i thought maybe they left my the seatbelt and i heard this

wacking. But actually there's a whole bunch of rounds coming at me. So that's one up this valley. And I knew it was near sent to Pecky. So I tell, I go back and I tell these guys, actually, we're going to kill, picket, and dawson.

I came around with a plaza. Anyhow, they were going back to Honduras. I said, don't fly a little. I said, go direct and go court. I said, because they're shooting at you down there at a little level. they got shot down in the same area and they executed Pickett and Dossah.

Pickett was a colonel and Doss was expect for doorgunner. They finally got killed in impact. And my best friend, my instructor, Jose Mora Ann, the motor, he goes out at night and picks him up. He got the U.S. air metal

for that. but when I'm saying it's it's a danger's down there you have to be careful yeah and it was a it was tough for everybody down there because it was not a recognized conflict by our government like it like for the for all those

for the military guys down there it took them years and years and years after that to even get like awards for what they did down there like you guys were operating like under the direction of the government but without any recognition of the government or support of the government

yeah it's like the guy got killed and Javadren by it took a while for them to recognize the fact that he's killed in action you know

that was terrible yeah yeah yeah so what after El Salvador what was what was the next step

for you let's see I retired down there I was there I was there from 89 to 94 so and my plan

with this I know that what once a piece of course were signed. I mean, actually I worked, I took the UN people out and did some bunch of investigations and stuff and I haul people around it. I had to pay my helicopter to blue away and I had to buy a tan flights. But anyhow, I thought that the narcotics affairs section were one to use my hanger and my helicopters for their purposes with the settlement military. Well, I turned everything over.

to sell when I'm military, but I thought I could get a job running that a credit card of fair section program. But it turned out, they said, no, you're tainted because you work for the CIA. All right, but I know everybody down here. I know this whole country, you know. So, but, you know, I got offered a job up and sat me what them all do with the same thing. But I didn't take it. So you retire from the city. CIA. It's the 1990s.

But Frank McCloskey's getting a little bored now. What did you find to occupy your time? Well, the first thing is my son said one day, said, hey, you get this call from a guy named Scherder. And he's in that goal when he wants to talk to you. He says, he's going to call back

whatever time. You know, I met Michelle on El Salvador. He had a project to take all the landmines out and he had some EOD guys and they were taking landmines out to eradicate all the problems in the field and he had like a two point five minute on contract with you and to do that and he was a funny guy he was a ex former legionaire he had a uh a screwdriver fountain in his house

back he went his house and he just put in there he was black and orange he's he's smuggled like a chimney i mean he just was more worse than me but anyhow anyhow i got to know i took about i took about a couple times to take a them to the sites and stuff. Because my boss would go, but take care of Michelle. So he called me, tell me, on the phone he says,

oh, Frankie, I got this contract with Angola. We're going to go get some diamonds. So, and I thought he'd bullshit, but then I saw the contract. I went down to, you know, office in Georgetown,

right down in the waterfront. I said, I don't know. And one of the, I know what ex COS I knew, was working for him. So I wasn't read the contract. Yeah, the contract was good.

But we were going to have to get bloody. It's going to be bloody. So he had me, I was the Airops guy and one of my Navy SEAL buddies who retired now Salvador was recruiting all of them, the ground guys. And he recruited like 300 people, some from the Southern Army and some from the girls. So everybody's out of work because the war was over. So Dean had, Dean Nelson was the name. he's retired name still

work for up. He had like 300 guys waiting to get on a plane going to, we were going to fly him from El Salvador to to Cuba to Cuba to and Guba that gore. And I already had Colonel

Borrell was going to sell me one mic model gunship or two, or two. Dependent how much money. And then I had like two Hueys in Spain to take a little. through

Morocco instead of putting them on a boat I was just going to try to fly across you know it's all lined up the whole thing

but the problem once I told them I said Michelle you you know we we gave Zabimbi this is the area

where Zabimbi used to work I said we gave them these people were trained they're not they're not gonna take it easy I mean we're gonna lose

some people as especially I don't know how much tough they got left over from what we support It's the United. Yeah, exactly. Actually, my friend got killed him under him and go on George Bacon.

George Bacon on Valentine's, say, in 76. Yeah, he was in a wedding. We were in a training group together. He was an amazing guy. Oh, yeah. He spoke, he was very smart, George. Actually, we had the heir to the Walmart fortune. and John Walton was one of our medics over there.

And back when his dad, it says, it's at a hardware store. When he died, he was worth 40 million. I think I came around. Yeah, yeah, he came from an affluent family. And when he died, he was with Fenla working for Peter McAleese, who we've had on the show, the S-A-S-G guy. Who's that? Peter McAlees.

Oh, I know him, but I don't know. John Walton was just Walmart guy he'd throw a Walmart airplanes. He was one of our medics but he got out he was air he misrigged his his ultralight and trashed die.

Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, he puts something upside down on an horizontal stabilizer instead of going up, he went down and crashed. So, I know him, I met him up in peace quarter

a peace quarter party and I was well here's the thing when I was in the reserves I was one of the SAS we used to combine operations with the two three territorials

you know up in the Devons and I was one of the one of the liaisons with the Brits so what I was there was

like a combined. There was a program that we had for the agency that they needed somebody to go over to England or to the two two SAS headquarters. So they had Colonel Rosen, Mike Rose was the commander. So he was in the office up in, up in headquarters and I worked, I had so many friends in SES. I had an SAS regimental right. And he spots it. He said, that's the guy I want to come over to like to this program, you know. So I ended up going TDIW over to, to Herford for like I don't know we can have two weeks I guess but it turned out to be just a big old boy blow out every day but I did get to see the the the clock tire when they put all the people from that the uh from the falcons on there but I met Mackleys

I couldn't understand where he said because he was he's from Glasgow too yeah heavy Scottish accent. At the time that the people that were boiled in at in the Iranian Bosch's situation that was

he was B-squarred. Anyhow, they had a party because the commander was leaving. And the whole B-square was in a head. And I was there and everybody says,

don't believe him, he's not the second guy in the door, don't believe he's not the second guy the door, you know, because everybody says they're the second guy in the door.

Macleys was the first one for the the throat the match chart. He said, but don't believe him. You know, and this guy should come up to me and he started talking. I couldn't understand what he said. Kurt Rope called me the next day. He says,

how do you feel? I thought, oh, not too good. I said, it's rough out there in the beachwater party. He said, you remember that guy talking to? Yeah, he says, well, he's one. He is actually what's the thing. I know you could understand where he said. So I'll just want you know, he's the one. It was back at least.

So, that had a good thing. The whole, this Angola operation, I mean, you got helicopters coming in through North Africa. You got all of these dudes that have been recruited from El Salvador. I mean, what was like the scheme of maneuver going to be? How were you going to hit Angola? Well, I don't know what. Michelle had to, he was building this whole resort on the coast. And I'm not sure how he planned to do that because I never got that far.

But he was given a reason to secure. for the Angolan government. In exchange for that, they gave us a region for the company. His company is called Edis, IDAS, IDAS, I forget. Anyhow, he got,

if he secured this region for De Beers or whoever it was, one of the diamond companies, it secured it. The diamonds are like four feet on the ground, I say it was very lucrative. So if he secured that with all these people, then it would give us this other region, just for us.

So basically, all of us become millionaires. He said, that's what he said. I don't know. He noticed. He died. He had an aneurysm.

He was doing a, he was salvaging a ship somewhere. He was a character. But he was salvaging a ship and had aneurysm and couldn't get off the boat. He was on. And he died. He didn't leave a will.

And his daughter could have taken, and his daughter would have been alive. We could have probably kept on going, but the Belgian government took over the company. So that is the end of that. So all of us are crying a bomb, but at least I got my phone bills paid. I thought you were going to say you got two El Salvadorian gunships to take home. No, I got to go. But I let the El Salvador to Colonel Burrero, he said, you want to, because I was telling,

I was talking about opening a bar and having a Huey come out with the wall, you know, just a nose portion. He said, you can take any of those hot hughy's not. They're all shot off at their stuff. He's all you can have whatever you want. I mean, you got it. But I ever could take one. So after this, you took a job with Dyncore, right? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I was, well, first thing I, I was home and I was bored. My buddy called me from my old homicide take of Balch, Andy. He was with me when Reagan got shocked. I didn't tell you that story. But anyhow, he was my old homicide partner. And he's talking to just general conversation. He said, I'm going to go to my mom.

I said, what are you doing? He said, well, he's going to be able to work on a murder down there. He says, oh, by the way, do you know Colonel Alpitas? I said, yeah, he's in front of mine. He's, will he talk to you? I said, of course you will. I'm the man. man.

From Guatemala. So I said, okay, put me on a contract. Go with you. So he gets me on a contract, which was, I don't know, $300 a day plus whatever expenses

to find criminal pay that this guy to clear off this case. It was a U.S. that got killed up at the 10. Mike Devine is his name. So I got out there

and this guy refused to talk to anybody, the bureau or anybody. But he, He knew me. We went back away. So it took me a lot of fun because he was an incognito because somebody had put in the papers that he was an asset in the CIA.

So the government, he was getting ready to get executed in a fire squad for being a traitor. Somebody, oh, it was a Boricelli from New Jersey that leaked the fact that he, well, supposedly was an asset for the agency, getting paid. So, and yeah, he was undercut. He was hiding. But it took me a while to find a couple days. But I was getting paid 300 days, so I figured I'd stretch it out because I found him like the second day,

first day or whatever. Second day, maybe. There was a guy that ran a gun shop there. He knew all the military guys. He was best friends with the guy that got killed with me, but it's he not. He says, hey, you know what we're, but pay this and say, yeah, yeah.

I said, tell him I want to talk to him. Sure enough, one day Bob came to me some Frank they're getting nervous because you're not functioning you're not producing so at that night I called Bob

and say Bob calling down I got somebody to see you help me this so that that was about a month's worth of work there you know but during that time when my seal buddy from the agency he's down working in a casino

know in Louisiana. Well, the Chittamuch, a little bit of a Chittamuch, a tribal Louisiana. He said they're looking for Chief of Police, so I applied. Then I'm down there and I applied. I'm about to interview before I went to this

Guatemal trip. And sure enough, I get hired. So now the Chief Police in Louisiana, after I leave Guatemala after this after this debacle with the Divine case. But anyhow, the Vine case turned out okay. And I'll pay this.

we offered him asylum back in the States, but he wouldn't take it. He's not going to stand whatever they say. I'm going to stand trial here. I'm sure he's fine. But, yeah, he's a good guy. But it wouldn't be for me. He never talked to everybody.

The fact is, they didn't understand it word. They brought a Puerto Rican interpreter, right, with them because they didn't trust me. So I'm not talking to him. The Porter Inn guy was clueless because the Guatemal speak, especially non-tar guys, they have all these, all these, uh, says-ocho means to eat dinner, you know, Seiz Ocho. And, you know, they have all these things that he don't know about.

So this, the pen is talking about all this stuff that he couldn't understand. He's a good thing that McCluskey's there. Otherwise, I wouldn't know what he even said, you know. So I drug it out a little bit. Then he got me involved in my stupid Jennifer Harbor. case with the Allman Codda. He wasn't American

it was a nun case. I stayed down a couple of weeks but then I came back and took that chief's job. I ran the police department for a three and a half years there and I went to the sheriff's office. And

man, what happened was I wasn't making much money. So I looked at an article in the chief police magazine and found an article to go to a bond now. I called a number of his nine court.

and who has his home, a mole boss from, one of my boss from DC police. John Collins was a chief, chief of the Csquart, or lieutenant in the second court. And he retired up in chief. And he pushed my stuff through.

And I was in, I was in Kosovo in record time. So I ended up in Kosovo for 15 months, you know. And during that time, my cousin found a job for me flying in Baltimore. because nobody wanted to take the job because it's Baltimore. All these guys are living in Pennsylvania.

So I took the, you know, I went back for an interview real quick, and I said, you want to look at my logbook? And the guy says, nah, man, Chris said, you're okay, you're okay. So we'll see in January. So I'm back and I canceled my, I was going to extend for three months. Because the money was really good. I was making over 100 grand over there, with predeterminal stuff, over 100.

Because I ended up, I was at the sit, deputy contingent command for a while. And that's an extra six-year-hand a year. So you take the job in Baltimore. This was flying again? Yes, I was flying, yeah. For the police department? No, there was a matter back job.

Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, I applied for the Maryland State Police to apply, but they didn't call me back. I just took this one because it was a flying tail. That's what I want to do. I was trying to go to Columbia with DynCorp because they had a program in Columbia, but some idiot shot down a missionary plane thinking that was a murk. Yeah.

That was a big debacle for the agency back in the 90s. Yeah, so that precluded any wringos from going down there and flying. And actually, my friend, Jim Sweeney, had killed in Peru, doing kind of narcotics down there. in like 93, 94, because I buried him in Salwood. He was married to Selwood. Oh, wow. He's an old Air American guy.

The guy had like thousands of hours. He don't know God ran fixed me, you know. Was that when they were down there flying? Because they brought a lot of Vietnam guys, Vietnam veterans in for the Peru stuff back in the day. Yeah, exactly. And Bolivia. Yeah. Yeah, believe me, too.

He was, he was flying for us, and what happened was he married? He was flying contracts for the agency, six-wing at the time, because he was dual-rated. But he married a Salvadoran and didn't tell anybody, so they let him go. Oh, wow, yeah. Which I thought, which I thought was stupid because there's nothing wrong with his wife. His wife ran a trucking company in us all. I mean, she wasn't the terrorist. She won the, and he came in.

see me and he said, hey, can you hire me back? I said, I'm going to try. So I went in the office and said, hey, let's hire Jim back. Because I needed it. We were running low money so we couldn't bring these guys back from our contract guys back to fly. And it was just me and Abilina, what's a Bickrallon guy. And then he needed third pilot, maybe. They wouldn't let me do it. And he said, don't worry. I got a job of Peru. And the next thing in our, his wife came and tell me, hey, you got to have a couple of I said I haven't come bearing but that's so.

Yeah. So you flew the air ambulance job for quite a while, didn't you? Yeah, from 2001 to 2014 maybe. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And do we have any questions for Frank?

We have one question here and then I think we have one on Patreon, right, Dee? And we have a viewer question for you, Frank. Stuart Oth, thank you very much. What year did Frank get into the CIA and what years was he in Honduras and Guatemala? I went to the agency of August 1981.

I was in Honduras the first time in mid-192, and then I spent the whole one year over there from July 88 to July, yeah, July 89, something like that. 88 was one of the ski boats. Yeah. And. We have one others?

I think there's, Ian had one on Patreon. Sorry, we're going to pull it up. Okay. Sorry. You guys got, you guys go my name spelled wrong. We have your name spelled wrong? Yeah, there's an extra E in there. We'll fix that.

Sorry about that, Frank. I'm just kidding. I don't care. No, no, no, it's okay. It's important, though. All right. So Isaac asked, dear Mr. McCloskey, I respect you, sir, and I believe in the intelligence community,

and I pray that one day I can join the agency and do what you did. However, there's a question I've been wanting to ask someone who served in Central America. Was Operation Charlie real? If not, how exactly were operations being funded? My president, Charlie. Well, funding came from Congress, and when I was there, you know, I know that somebody talked a long time one year about the Iran-conscious thing, but when I was there, it was all fun about Congress and U.S. government. We were all working under a presidential finding.

That's what it had to me in Mexico. I asked to see the president's finding, whether or not we had lethal. They give you a lethal authorization to hurt. If you come to it, you can hurt somebody. but I couldn't find it that's what I left Mexican because they shredded it. But no,

everything I worked on was all fundamentally of the government. I mean, that's all I know. I mean, I got cut off sometimes. Yeah, yeah, it did. So where are you at today, Frank? Like, what are you up to nowadays?

Anything that you want to, want to tell people about? No, I'm just out here in Colorado. I left the EMS flying. You know, the older you get to the less sharper you are, we were flying 12, seven days, 12 hours, gargles, and it gets stressful. When you get older, it's a young man's game, you know.

I just thought it was probably better for my crew that I knew one time, one of the time to quit, you know. In 70s, good. whatever. That's good enough. Yeah. You had a hell of a good run, Frank. I mean, flying until 2014. Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. That's a lot. I mean, I had a lot of breaks in there, but when I was cheap, police and all that and stuff. Yeah, I had a good time. I mean, I enjoyed flying EMS and I still miss those guys, but I'm just doing to work for a small college here at the flight school.

try to help these young students get their private license or whatever in their flying. They're fixing one kind of stuff. Yeah. I don't know. But yeah, I have a good time. I mean, I have a good run.

You know, what I got to say. I'm getting old. You know. But I mean, a really incredible career, though. You know, some people don't believe half the stuff because it jumps around quite a bit. But, you know, Army, police,

back to, in the, agencies and back to police. You know, then Kosovo, you know, nobody believed in Kosovo. That was a pretty interesting story there. I mean, I was a Serbian liaison guy there. Because the Serbs were kicked out

and I was helping the enclaves over there, the people that were that stayed to protect their their monasteries and stuff like that, you know. I thought it was a shame. I think that

that was wrong. It deserves that. I mean, I know they're pretty brutal, but the Russians told me why. We work with Russian cops, French cops, all these other cops. The Russians told me what they take. Oh, your Americans open Pandora's box, which is true. I mean, a million Elbadiens got flooding through there, and it opened the heroin route.

It's way open, wide open again, because the Elvadians, I mean, and we just gave it away, you know. I when I first got there I was working with organized crime when the guy that I was working against he's been out of the leader of that country he was my target yeah he did they just banning my unit

yeah that's the UN for you you know but yeah because you get to work with different culture different countries I mean there's a whole lot I worked in German region and and and Pristina I work with the Russians

I can't believe they got going because they're Russian, Ukrainians, Indians, Texan, they're all working together. It's funny. It worked out good, though. I think there's one more question on Patreon, D. So, Frank, I mean, any, like, final thoughts as we kind of wrap up here? Anything that, you know, you want to get out there? No, I appreciate you guys.

Let me talk. I enjoy my time, all my times. and, you know, I really didn't enjoy Reagan and, I'm not Reagan, but Johnson and MacDemar. But other than that, I've had a good run. I mean, I'm still alive, and I got a lot of friends out there, but they're dying off, like, left and right. But I just hope people put away this political division and try to get this country back on the track again, because we're in bad shape. We're going to worry about a lot of things We've got a lot of borders and no energy

It's terrible And being a guy that's To try to save all that stuff We're almost a civil world country now Maybe I better start over on shovels and beat Axes Yeah, painting for gold Panting for gold

I thought of Yeah I really appreciate you doing this man And like I said, I had wanted to have you on this show like for the last three years. And I'm glad that we finally made it happen. It's been really cool. Well, I hope I did all right. I wasn't sure whether I could do it.

But I think that's what you did. We agree deeply, deeply appreciate you coming on and sharing your story. Some unwritten chapters of history being shared. Yeah. It's super cool to hear. I'm not read a book for any days. I try to get to read my book for me. I would love to work with you, Frank.

I'm not a very good ghostwriter, though. I've attempted it before. But I could try to connect you with some other folks, too, who might be interested if you still want to do that. What was our one thing to add to these stories? That's what he told them. All right. Anyhow, thank you guys for everything.

So everyone out there next Friday, we're going to have Kate from Zero Block 30. Actually, I think she's going to be here in studio. She served in the Marine Corps. She was part of the female engagement teams during the G-WAT times. So we're excited to have her on the show. And otherwise, again, thank you, Frank.

We're deeply humbled. We really deeply appreciate you. Thank you, everyone, for watching. And Frank, we'll stay in touch, man. Have a nice weekend, okay? You too. Thank you very much. All right.

Take care, everyone. We'll see you next Friday.