The Team House - From Marine Recon in Desert Storm to Naval Intel in Afghanistan | Jim Sisco | Ep. 311

Episode Date: November 24, 2024

Support the show here:⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouseJames R. Sisco is the Founder and CEO of ENODO Global. Jim draws upon an extensive military career in US Marine Corps special operations and Naval Intelligence to lead ENODO. He brings to ENODO a unique understanding of risk analysis and a wealth of knowledge and experience in leadership, management, intelligence analysis, strategy development, and counterinsurgency warfare, developed through military operations across the globe where he immersed himself in diverse cultures. Career highlights include serving as Military Liaison to the Afghan President, supporting the US Director of Intelligence as an authority on Afghanistan, and establishing the US Navy’s Irregular Warfare Office. Jim earned a BA in Political Science and Economics from Indiana University of Pennsylvania and an MS in Strategic Intelligence from the National Intelligence University. Jim has been published in numerous professional journals and co-authored Left of Bang: The Value of Sociocultural Analysis in Today’s Environment.Find Jim here:https://enodoglobal.com/___________________________________________________Subscribe to the new EYES ON podcast here:⬇️https://www.youtube.com/@EyesOnPodcast/featured—————————————————————-Today's Sponsors:⬇️GhostBed⬇️https://www.ghostbed.com/houseFOR 50% OFF!!!____________________________________Pre-order Jack Murphy's new book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" today! ⬇️https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/——————————————————————To help support the show and for all bonus content including:https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse-AD FREE AUDIO-AD FREE VIDEO-Access to ALL bonus segments with our guestsSubscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouseOr make a one time donation at: ⬇️https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouseTeam House merch: ⬇️https://teespring.com/stores/my-store-10474963Social Media: ⬇️The Team House Instagram:https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_linkThe Team House Twitter:https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePodJack’s Instagram:https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_linkJack’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21Dave’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/dave_parke?s=21Team House Discord: ⬇️https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6SubReddit: ⬇️https://www.reddit.com/r/TheTeamHouse/Jack Murphy's memoir "Murphy's Law" can be found here:⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Law-Journey-Investigative-Journalist/dp/1501191241The Team Room Reading Room (Amazon Affiliate links):⬇️ https://jackmurphywrites.com/the-team-room-reading-room/Intro music by https://www.youtube.com/user/RemixSampleWant to sponsor the show?Email: ⬇️[e-mail]0:00 start #navalintelligenceBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

Hey guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to talk to you today about a way that you can help support the podcast if you're not already. To support the channel is to become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon memberships that start at just $5 a month. And when you sign up, you get access to all of our episodes ad free. That's the big bonus for that. I mean, we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for our subscribers. But this is the biggest and best way that you can support the Team House channel and podcast if you'd like to, and we really appreciate that. So go out and check us out at patreon.com slash the team house. Special operations, covert ops, espionage, the team house with your host, Jack Murphy and David

Park. Hey, everybody. Welcome to episode 311 of the team house. Dave Park. Jack Murphy is currently on the top secret mission. Our guest tonight, Jim Sisko. Jim, thank you so much for being with us. Happy to be here. Yeah. Jim is a former Marine Recon and Naval Intelligence. And before we get to Jim, I'm going to shout out to our sponsor so we don't have to interrupt the show. If you sleep hot at night, you know just how disruptive it can be. Whether you're having trouble falling asleep,

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and use code house at checkout. Again, that's ghostbed.com house with code house at checkout to save a whopping 50% off sitewide. Check out their pillows, their bedding, their mattresses. Everything they got there is great, folks. Jim, back to you. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. We really appreciate it.

I feel privileged to be here, to be honest with you. Listen to a couple of your podcasts, and Gus were incredible. Hopefully I'll be able to live up to their standards and yours. We appreciate it. We 100% live up to the standards. So we deeply appreciate you being. Excuse me. little tickle. So let's start with your origin story. How did you start out? Who were you? How did you grow up?

And what led you to the military? So I grew up in New Jersey and really wasn't academically, you know, inclined. I grew up middle class and my dad was a union guy. And I remember he, you know, It kind of was pushing me to go to the union. And the other thing is my family life wasn't that structured. My mother was married three times. My father was married three times. So I was always in divorce and issues like that. So it wasn't a good foundation for me.

And I wound up living with my grandparents for a couple years, which was probably the best thing for me. They really were able to instill those old school traditional values and helped me with that. But I really knew that I wasn't ready for college or, you know, further my education. And I really decided that I wanted to serve in the military and decided that I was going to join the Marine Corps.

And was there a reason you chose the Marines? Honestly, I didn't know about the SEALs at the time. And I learned about the Marine Corps in force recon and recomb. So that really drove my decision making. You know, in retrospect, knowing about the Special Forces community, most likely would have joined the Army to go to SF or the SEAL teams. Yeah.

So where did you enlist? What happened? And most importantly, were you San Diego or Paris Island? So this is pretty funny. I actually joined the Marine Corps on September 11, 1986. You know, the significance of that day. shipped out to Paris Island. So that answers your question.

And I was a 3rd Battalion I Company guy. And everybody knows about Paris Island, third battalion, all by themselves. And wound up being an undergrad out of boot camp. And it kind of set the tone for my career, which we'll talk about. Yeah, okay, great. And so you are infantry, I assume?

I had a contract for infantry, but I knew that I was going to take the ring. recon and dock and, you know, back then it was a lot different. In 1986, the recon in dock, you get in a bus at Infantry Training School and they ship you out in this cattle car and all of the windows are blacked out and you show up at Onslow Beach in North Carolina. And the minute you get off that cattle car, you have, I mean, people are yelling at you and screaming, throw them water on you, and you go through the entire in-doc.

I believe we had 80 or around 80 something people go and trying out for the, for recon. And when it was all said and done at the end of the day, I think there was four of us or five of us. Wow. And how long was that, was the end dock? The end dock is almost all day long. You start off with a ruck run where they have all of these Alice packs laying out there, for you. They have sandbags in them and they're wet and you put the Alice Pack on your back and they start you off at the battalion headquarters. You run out past the scuba locker all the

end of the island and back. And that's the first evolution. And then it's obstacle course and push-ups and pull-ups and sit-ups. And the one break you get is when you transit from recon to Area 5 pool and you do the swim part of the end-doc. So you get a little break about, you know, 20, 30 minute drive over there. And then you have the swim portion. And the funny thing that I remember is there were a lot of people who made it. And then once we got to the swim portion, people were just dropping left and right. Yeah.

And then you get back into the bus or the cattle car and you go back out to Onslow Beach. And you did some of those psych drills and training and things of that nature. But yeah. And then five of us were left. So the in-doc is like one day where they just like peel you peel everybody apart. The people who already have it and the people who don't basically. Yeah. And then when you get to actually, when you check into Recombatat, you go through RIP, Recon, Inductoration Program, and that's 30 days long.

And, you know, everybody talks about the SEAL teams and like they talk about Hell Week and, you know, buds. And most SEALs will tell you, when you get through Hell Week, then it's just like a nine to five job. through, you know, the different phases, but back then in recon, you went through Rip, and it was just 30 days of being tortured. Yeah. It sucked. Yeah. Was there any learning during that, or was it just, was it pure selection?

No, there was a lot of learning. I mean, there was land nap, there was, you know, patrolling, there was, you know, we had the rappel tower there. You know, we did train, but it was, you know, you get done training. The Chow Hall is there. on the island. You just can't escape. And then the NCOs would come in at like three o'clock in the morning, drunk and wake you up and, you know, take you on.

And I talked about this in one of my podcasts. And I wrote it in one of my manuscript episodes. I remember there was a NCO who had a Toyota pickup truck. And the NCOs were in the back of the pickup truck drinking beer. and they tied a rope to the trailer hitch bumper. And the rope was behind the vehicle. And at the end of the rope were like eight nooses. And they pulled us out and they put the nooses on their neck

and they would drive the truck down the beach and we're running at night. The nooses are on neck. And I remember at one point, one of the guys up front tripped on something and everybody fell and they didn't stop the truck. They just kept driving and were like holding on to the ropes and getting pulled.

And finally one of them was like, hey stop the truck and so that's the environment that we were exposed to for 30 days and there was no you know you're hazing or anything like that we were out on the island by ourselves they just did whatever they wanted but there was also some fun things that happened like one time they pulled us out individually and we went to the back of the nCO quarters and they had this stump and they're like we're going to ask quality today and we're like okay it's cool and take your cover off, but blindfold you. All right, we put a quarter on the stump

in the night you have this axe and they're all cheering. Oh, a little to the left. To the right, you missed it as you're like hitting the axe on the stump and they take the blindfold off and your cover is just in pieces, you know? Yeah. So there was like fun, but it was also, it was kind of torture. Yeah, the 80s were kind of wild, weren't they?

Yeah, there was, I mean, I remember there's just drinking, smoking, you know, it was, I mean, one time we were driving back to Onslow Beach, and we had gone out to the brown bagger in the bayou on Court Street. And literally, we would pick the person who was the most drunk and make them drive and play with the lights, turn them off, and play with the windshield wipers, the radio, on the whole way back. And it was just a different time that, you know, is how I can describe it.

Yeah, yeah. An unsafeer time. Yeah. So once you get done with Indoc, are you officially a recon Marine? No. So you finish Rip and then you're put into your order of when you're going to go to class. Okay. And that's amphibious reconnaissance school.

And then once you get done with amphibious reconnaissance school, that's, you know, basically the milestone and then you are considered a reconnor Marine. Okay. So how is it that like when you get out to your battalion for battalion recon, you know, and you haven't been a line dog, right? You haven't spent any time on the line. Is there, do they respect you more or less? What's the impression of like the Marines in general to young recon Marines? I believe once you're graduated from Ampipis reconnaissance school, you're accepted.

I mean, you've gone through Rip and then you've gone through ARS and you're training with the, you know, probably the same guys for the, you know, a couple months. And your, your ARS class is about 40 guys or 50 guys. So it's similar to buds. Yeah. Except it's just a lot longer. Yeah. And so, yeah, you're just, you're accepted. How long is the ARS class or the ambiguous reconnaissance?

I believe when I went through, it was almost three months. Okay. We also had, our amphib phase was down in Key West because I went through in a winter, which sucked because we're in Virginia Beach at Fort Story and we're jumping in the water all the time. And, you know, it was, it was, I still hate the cold. Yeah. I just despise the cold. Yeah. It's my kryptonite.

And, but then we went down to Key West for our amphid phase. And so it was about three months. Okay. And for the people who don't know, can you describe the difference between battalion reconnaissance and force reconnaissance? Basically, it was the mission. You know, when I was in from 1986 to 91, the Special Forces community was still evolving. There was no Marsok, J-Soc and Silicon were kind of like, you know. So it really was we were supporting the division.

And Second Marine Division, we would go out on cruises. with them and we would be the reconnaissance arm for the division. And where forced recon really had, and that's when they started doing direct action, HRT, and so that's when they evolved and kind of took on that mission. For us, we was, me personally, I was always envious, you know, because they had built as a Halo school and they were doing all the cool stuff. And, you know, we were still like, you're patrolling and doing, you know, the traditional reconnaissance mission.

Right. Which I enjoyed. I truly did. Yeah. You guys were doing a lot of the Lerp Lurst type of, like, reconnaissance for a unit that was using that reconnaissance for, you know, direct, for whatever maneuvers they were doing. Yeah. And we, I think the culmination is when we were on our amphid cruise on a 22 view.

And that's when you got to really execute everything. And that was, for me, you know, it was like a, that was the, that was the, the best part of my time in the Marines before Desert Storm, going out on crews and, you know, doing these operations in Sardinia and, you know, in different places. And I really enjoyed it. So kind of fast forward then to 91 if we can, unless there's anything you want to talk about, Desert Storm.

What happened then for you guys? So, funny story. I am at the end of my enlistment. You know, I have a four-year enlistment and I'm already checking out. I have my checkout sheet in my hand and my last, you know, person to meet with is the battalion commander and the sergeant major. So I go walking in, and by that point, I had very established myself as one of the better operators. You know, I always strive to be technically proficient. So, you know, I had the respect of, you know, my peers and a lot of the, you know, the officers.

And I remember walking in and I'm like, hey, Sergeant Major. what's going on? He's like, hey, Jim, come on in. And I'm like, okay, he's like, go, just go in and see the CEO. And I'm like, Roger that. And I walk in. I'm like, hey, sir, how's he going? Because I'm short time or I'm happy. Right. And he goes, hey, Jim, listen, I got some good news and bad news. Just go ahead to sit down. And I'm like, okay, what's going on, sir? And he goes, what do you want? The good news or the bad news? And I'm like, just give you the bad news. And he goes, well the Marine Corps and his wisdom has ended all E-O-A-S end of active service

for the needs of the Marine Corps Desert Storm is kicking off and you can't you're not going to be able to get out and I'm like okay what's the good news and he said the good news is you can either go back to Charlie Company and you can probably try

and get your team back or you can go to headquarters or we can try and like you know, transfer you. And I'm like, well, hell of that. I mean, I spent four years here training to go to combat. I want to go back to Charlie's company. And I did. And, but that had its own story.

But I think four months later, um, in Saudi Arabia and Desert Storm. Yeah. And then what kind of mission do you set do you guys have during Desert Storm? So that was the weird part because nobody really understood Desert Storm. Like, when I, I wrote a book and I talked about it. It was 1991.

The Iraq army was the sixth largest army in the world. Everybody, they had used mustard gas and biocam weapons against the Iranians. They had like hundreds of thousands of troops and artillery pieces and tanks. They were fighting Iran for decades. And everybody thought that, you know, we were going to have this, you know, prolonged, protracted war and hundreds of thousands of deaths and casualties. And nobody really knew the mission. And we were in a unique position because we are now going to do mobile reconnaissance.

And we're like, what's that? I mean, I've been training in jungles and cold weather, you know, regular terrain. And now here we are in the desert. We don't have any SOPs. We've never done it. We're just getting the first evolution of the pluggers GPS. and I actually went to Celestial Navigation School for three weeks to learn how to navigate off the stars.

Wow. So imagine what you're coming into. Yeah. Yeah. So when you guys got there, can you tell us, like, your experience there? Yeah. So we get into Camp 15,

and it's a sprawling metropolis. HESCO barriers, you know, tent cities everywhere. It's just people crammed in there. Very uncomfortable for me, very uncomfortable for us, because we want to be out. We're operating. We don't want to be stuck in, you know,

basically artillery position, you know. And our time was trying to learn how, learn the environment and learn our operations. I mean, the first time we were doing, we were out there walking in the desert. I mean, how the same was that? Yeah. Carrying the 50 Cal and we're like,

this is not going to work. Right. And, you know, so then we started understanding the mission set a little more. And we started, you know, taking the 50 cows and mounting them into the Humvees, the Mark 19s, and trying to figure out how we're going to do everything. And the best part was when we left Camp 15. And Camp 15 was okay. You had some hot chow and you had some showers and things like that. But the minute we were, we moved like 110 miles north and we were about 10 miles off the border.

And for me, I was happy in a way because we're away from that. Right. But the other thing, it was so isolated and you didn't have all the creature comforts. We didn't have showers. We didn't have hot chow. We're eating MREs every day. At one point, I went 48 days without a shower, which was pretty cool and pretty disgusting because your body starts growing things that you never even know.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then how long were you guys out doing that? I mean, we were out there until the ground invasion. Okay. We were out there. I mean, and the worst part was the kind of the insanity of the Marine Corps.

You know, they have a way of just doing the stupidest things and with no logic or justification. Like, we would move every couple days. And we would move like 10 clicks or five clicks. And you're like, why? Well, they might know our position or this or that. And that was the opt tempo with stand to and stand down and, you know, no hot chow and no showers and just sleeping and sleeping bags.

After a while, it was a grind. It was just kind of weighed on you emotionally and physically and psychologically. Yeah. And so then when the war kicked off or the invasion started, did you guys cross the line? Yeah, well, I want to tell like a quick, provide a quick vignette. Yeah, please.

So I was, remember I told you, I was still trying to figure out my place at Charlie Company. We had rearranged the team. So I was in headquarters, but I was supposed to be a team leader. I was going to be an ATL. And they were, the teams in my platoon, did their first mission.

And they went out on mission. And I was on, I volunteered to be on Radio Watch. And we had problems where one of the teams got compromised. I was part of the extract team. I went in and helped get them out. And it was pretty cool doing that, but I still felt jaded because I wasn't out with the teams.

Sure. But we came in and we're sitting down, and it was Mike Cook and myself and Woody, Doc, and a couple other people, we're sitting around in the circle, and we're just, you know, reading letters, eating chow and just bullshitting. And Lance Corporal Stroud says,

Hey, Quipal, Cisco, could you help me with the KY gear? You know, the KY here for the radios. And, you know, typical Marine fast. You know, I'm like, fuck you. What are you a retard? Do it yourself. And everybody just starts laughing you. And Mike looks over at me and he's like, bad dog.

And I was like, yeah, that was kind of a dick move. So I got up and I walked over to Stroud and I started helping with the KY gear. And I was over there for about, I would say, 45 seconds to a minute. I heard this large explosion. Boom. And this explosion was from where I was sitting. And I went running back. First instinct, I go, was just running back.

And I get back and Mike had been taking his 782 gear off. And we had our grenades, you know, and hooked on the little clips. And we would always take the thumb clips off and kind of straighten out the pins a little so it would make it easier if you had to pull them. I don't know what happened, but I believe, like one of the pin got caught on the 780s. gear, the grenade fell between his legs and, uh, I exploded. Both arms were gone.

Uh, powder burn, you know, when people see the movies and see all the blood gus, that's not the way it is at all. And, uh, excuse me, um, you know, everything is black and just basically like the camis were all shredded. And I remember I just looked at him. I was the first person there. I looked at him and I'm like, you know, I can do trakes and I can do IVs, but I'm like, I can't do anything with this.

Yeah. And his head just slumped down. The Corman knocked me out of the way and they extracted him. And he's out on the CH 46, like five minutes later. So that was like very traumatic. First time I ever seen, well, kind of seen something like that, that magnitude. But I knew that we're, you know, the invasion, the ground invasion was the next day. So the other part of the story is this.

I had a friendship with Mike and, you know, and I felt kind of guilty that I was sitting on so. So when somebody dies or gets killed in combat, you have to go through and separate their gear, their personal facts and their, you know, military gear. And the personal effects get sent back home. And I'm like, hey, I'll do it, you know. And I'm going through all those gear and separate anything. And I have a notebook and I have to write down what's, you know, personal, like, you know, his headphones and Sony Walkman. and things like that. And I get down to the bottom of his pack

and I open up his wallet. And I'm like one Pennsylvania driver's license, you know, one credit card, one social security card. And I go into the side of the billfold and I pull out a picture. And I turn it over and it was a picture of my girlfriend. And I look at the back of it and it says, love Ashley.

At that moment in time, I mean just I'm overcome by an emotion that I could never really explain to anybody. Your friend dies, you know, an hour ago. And now you find out that your girlfriend and him are hooking up. Yeah. And I remember I just took a seat for a second and the gunny started to say, hey, are you okay? And I'm like, yeah, just give me a minute. And I walked out in the desert.

and it started sucking down a couple Marlboro Reds and came back in and was like, all right, I'm good, let's get this done, you know. And that night, I went back to my hooch and I had Jack Daniels in my canteen. My dad would send it to me. And I just started drinking and smoking. And I grabbed my Beretta 9-mill and I came out.

And I got a coots and I'm like, tell me, you're going to tell me, what's going on? And so, you know, a couple people the platoon knew and, you know, they let me know what was going on. And I just put it away. I compartmentalized it. I was like, okay, done. The next morning, we are moving towards the breach site. I am in the back of the Humvee behind the 50 cow.

We have guns and roses, welcome to the jungle playing on our boom box. We have an American flag on the whip antenna. I have a green cravat on my head, bandana, a pair of black Oakley's on, and we're just driving to the brief site. And everybody we're going by is just screaming, ooh-rah, and, you know, because they're all in mop-level two and mop-level-4, all-stage. We pull up to the bridge site probably 15, 20 minutes before we have to go through. the APCs come and they launch the Bangalore torpedoes. They blow up everything in the minefield. Engineers put engineering tape up and they're like, go.

And we just go right across. And we were the lead element for second reed division. And we were just mobile recon. And that was kind of like how I dealt with everything. Because I didn't have any time and I'm like mission first. It's, you know, that is a very specific story that I don't think a lot of, you know, many people can relate to. But having issues back home when you're deployed like that and pre- Skype, pre-internet and emails, like, pre-all of that, you just had to bury stuff, right?

You just had to swallow it and, like, do your job. Yeah, I mean, think about this. we were still writing letters. Right. And getting care packages, I would have to wait online for about an hour and a half to two hours back when I was at Camp 15 to get on a U.S.O. phone for five minutes. Right. Yeah. And sometimes you would call and you couldn't get through or didn't have a list of phone numbers.

It's not like having your cell phone. You're like, dad, mom, you know, brothers. You know, you have to like write down numbers. So it was really weird. trying to manage that and compartmentalize it. And I'll tell you what, it wasn't until I wrote the book and I started processing all of this to understand how it had an impact on my entire life.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, even in the modern age, with all those means of communication, when there are issues back home, like, it's one of those things that I don't think most people understand that everybody, has either had to deal with it

or has been around somebody who's had to deal with it and manage emotions, manage feelings of helplessness, manage these things and still conduct operations. Yeah, I'm going to say this.

I don't want to, you know, have this podcast, you know, take a dark path and stay down that path. I had some amazing experiences in Desert Storm and things that I will remember forever. And one of those being that I was able to get Intel. I had dated another corporal female Marine prior to deploying and prior to, you know, started to date Ashley. And she was in

Desert Storm and I wound up, you know, finding out, I was walking through Cam 15 and I heard, hey, Cisco! And I'm like, and I'm like, Belinda, oh my God. And so she started giving me intel. because she worked in the J2 for division. And I would take the intel because our officers were just kind of worthless, to be honest with you. And they weren't giving us everything we need for mission planning and for doing the reconnaissance missions. And I got the intel and I would disseminate it and share it with all the other team leaders and everybody loved it. And one night the gunnery sergeant found my Jack Daniels. he found my intel, he reported me to the lieutenant.

The lieutenant was like, oh, my God, you know. And so they're going to bring it to the CEO. And the CEO, because, you know, Corporal Cisco, you're violating this and violating that. And how do you have this top secret information? And I'm like, I don't know. I'm not going to spill the beans and tell me, well, where did you get it? I'm like, done your business. And so they bring me into the CEO.

And the CEO, like I said earlier, he had a good report. poor with me, knew me, technically proficient, one of the better operators. And he's like, and we found this, and he's got Jack Daniels, and where's he going to get this, sir? And so the CEO's looking through all the intel. He's not saying much. And he's looking at me. And he goes, hey, Jim, where did you get this? And I'm like, I can't tell you, sir.

And he goes, that's okay. He goes, can you get more of this? I can go, I can go in any time I want. All I got to do is try back to him. and he's like just keep getting that stuff and give it to me first before you just send it. And I was like, Roger that sir. And he looks at the lieutenant and the gunny's like, are you still here? And that was kind of that vignette kind of explains my time in the Marine Corps, but also my time in the as a naval intelligence officer, which we'll talk about later.

Yeah. I was always pushing the envelope. I was always just just doing things that were fun and always looking at the mission, but always just skirting the boundaries, if you want to say that. Yeah. So you guys are the first cross the breach. And what were your specific mission sets at that time? We didn't have a mission set. Honestly, they were like, just drive.

We're going to Kuwait City. I'm like, okay. And we're doing like 30, 35 miles an hour in our home viz and, you know, screaming through the desert. And we start seeing like Iraqis, like one z, Tuesdays like surrendering. And we're like, you know, what do we do? We can't stop the vehicle, get out, search them, see if they have weapons, you know, the typical five-asses.

We're like, just keep going. I mean, some ways we're throwing MREs out of them, you know, because they were so hungry. And then we started encountering like larger numbers, groups and bigger. and we still were like, we just can't stop because they're on the radio. You just keep going. Don't worry about it. Yeah. And didn't engage in any firefights or anything like that.

And then we start seeing ahead of us, Kuwait City, on the horizon. So we know we're getting close. We're only a couple clicks out, maybe 10 clicks, 12 clicks out. And I remember this vividly. We were, there's high tension wires all over the place. Oil wells and high tension wires. And when we were in Kuwait, I mean, I could send you pictures. There's just oil wells fire burning everywhere.

There's oil in the air. It would be like, it looked like it was 7 o'clock at night in the middle of day. And so we're driving along and, you know, haze with the smoke and the oil in the air. And we're pulling up near these high-tension wires out of nowhere. But, d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d- I mean, we just get lit up. And, you know, the Humvee stopped and we get in position and I'm on the 50 Cal and I'm like, get some. I'm like, loving it. You know, this is my first combat experience. So I'm just, this is what I trained for. And I'm on the 50 Cal and we're just sending, I'm like tracers flying

down range and bullets ricocheting like 10 feet up, you know, above my head on the high tension wires. And for some reason, I looked over and out of the Humvee and and I see somebody just jump out of the other Humvee and the M16, because we had the M16 A1s and A2s back. That's how old I am. M4s weren't even thought of and he jumps behind the tire of the Humvee. And just my nature, I'm not having any of this. And I just jump out, I grab the A gun and I'm like, get on the gun. And I jump out of the Humvee.

I'm just running across and I get over to this ball of humanity and just kick him as hard as I can right in the head. He looks up at me. And I looked down at him and I was in shop. It was the gunny. This gunny who had it out for me. And I go, get the fucking get, get in the fight. And I run back.

So the time I got back, I think this whole thing, 45 seconds, maybe, 30, 45 seconds. And the initial part of the firefight, everything together about a minute, minute and a half. And all of a sudden, seize fire, seize fire. Everybody's screaming, seize fire. and figured out that we were the lead element for second Marine Division. We encountered the lead element for First Marine Division. And I wrote in my book, the world's most elite fighting force encounters the world's most elite fighting force

for two minutes of sustained combat. No WIAs, no KIAs. Right. We were lucky. Yeah. We were really lucky. Yeah. So from here, you guys roll into Kuwait City.

Is that sort of your end state for what was planned? Yeah. See the cloverleaf of death and the roads with just hundreds of thousands of vehicles and dead bodies. And we're done. War is over. Yeah. We do a couple more missions over the next couple days, but basically war is over. Yeah.

Yeah. And then how did that sort of... So you guys kind of... How long did you say... spend there before you redeployed back to the states? That was the other issue. You know, the war's over. We want to leave.

And we're stuck in the desert and our, you know, five miles, 10 miles off the border, bouncing around doing stupid shit on watch. And before we go back to Camp 15. So it was a little while. And, you know, the first milestone was getting back to Camp 15. You know, just get back there to humanity. Take showers, eat hot. use the phones and things like that.

And that took about three to four weeks, as I remember. Wow. And then once we got back to Camp 15, then it was the arduous process of out-processed, pack-up, you know, all that. So that was another three or four weeks. So it was just a time-sump and it sucked. Yeah. So two months roughly goes by, you get back to the states.

Now you're, are you now eligible to leave service, to leave active? So yes, but hold on. Before I leave the states, before we get back to the states, I have this Belinda issue. I have the Intel issue. I have the alcohol issue. And all of these things are happening

and I'm concerned what's going to happen to me. Right. And the cowardness under fire with the gummy. So basically everything is forgotten. And they're like, don't worry about that. don't worry about that, but I still had the Belinda issue. Because we developed a relationship over there. And it turns out, wind up having sucks, hooking up.

And I start having a relationship. And then out of nowhere, it's a couple of weeks before I'm getting ready to, you know, supposedly head back, she comes to me and says, I love you, I'll always love you, but I can never see you again. So the trauma that I had for the Mike Dine and Ashley, and then Belinda doing this, and she's like, the best thing you can do is just walk away. And I just turned around and walked away because at that point,

I was just like, I'm done. Right. I checked out. Right. Turns out 30 years later, we reconnect on Facebook. And she tells me that she had been sexually assaulted and raped by a couple of the senior enlisted that she worked with. because they found out that she was giving me the intel,

and they threatened her that they said anything that she, they would tell, oh my God. She was giving me intel. And so I, like, I don't know this is happening. And I just leave and I get on a plane and a boat. And next thing, you know, I'm in Camp Lejeune. I am in, well, we fly into Cherry Point and then I'm on a bus.

And I'm back at Camp, June. I'm back at Onslow Beach. Imagine this. Bands playing, you know, husbands, wives reuniting, families there, crying, girlfriends, you know, children they haven't seen. I'm all by myself. Not one person from my family showed up. I get on the bus to go to Anzlo Beach, everything in my mind.

I get to Ansela Beach and I just do what I know how to do. Hey, man, I'll be in charge of the D-Bark party. I got it. and I've been working my ass off, you know, loading sea bags out of trucks doing everything for like a couple hours. And I'll never forget. I turn around and I see my buddy. This is a guy that we went to the same high schools together or similar to the same town. We went through MEPs together.

He lived in the same town basically. And he shows up in his brown Suzuki Samurai. And he's like, hey man, what's up? And I was like, holy shit, Brian, what's going on? And he goes, let's go. I'm like, where? He says, let's go to Myrtle Beach. And I remember as a Marine in just coming back from Desert Storm, being in Myrtle Beach.

And I walked into bars and Brian would go, he just got back from Desert Storm. He was in Recon. And I drank. And, I mean, it was just a different time back then. There was so much patriotism. And, you know, Desert Storm. yellow ribbons everywhere and I wind up like hooking up every night I was down there. You know, girls were just throwing themselves.

You were in Desert Store? You know, come on, let's go. And I'm like, okay, let's go. Yeah. And seven days later, I outprocessed out of my core. No, nothing. Like now Marine, sailors, Army, everybody, they get out, they have like medical, dental, you know, PTSD.

I mean, everything in the world. world. They have classes on transition, tap class, this, that. It's like, here's your DD-214. You throw your boots over the high-tension wires, drive over the bridge at Onslow Beach, and you're done. Right. Right. And so you drive over the bridge of Onslow Beach, and where do you find yourself? I had made a plan. I'm going to college. Okay. And I drive back to New Jersey. Brian's in New Jersey. He's out of the Marine Corps. I'm out of the Marine Corps.

And we lifeguard all summer. But it's like the first week of lifeguarding together on the Jersey Shore. And we're in a bar called Frankie's Bar and Grill in New Jersey. And we're drinking. And I've never liked drinking, but when I got back from Desert Storm, I drank a lot. I mean, not like alcoholic, but I did drink. Not because I was trying to erase my, you know, memories or dealing with traumas. It was fun.

I was 22, you know. just out of combat. I drank. You know, to have fun. But we're sitting in the bar and Brian says to me, what are we going to do? You know, and we're like getting to this drunk philosophical discussion. And as typical, you know, ex-marines and, you know, young guys, we decided we're going to flip a coin. Heads, we go to college, tails, we go to stuntman school.

Literally, that was the choice. And I was happy either way. Flip the coin, heads. We're going to college. So we start filling out paperwork and admissions and this and that. Brian wasn't as smart. I don't want to say as smart. Brian's an intelligent guy, but he didn't do well in school.

I didn't do that well, but I was a little better than him. So we both wind up choosing, you know, we both had like five or six schools that we both got accepted to. It was like slippery rock, IUP, you know, Rutgers, this and that. So being the good Intel officer, I am, I did my due diligence. I went to Playboy's top 100 party schools, saw that IUP was ranked number nine or 10 in the nation. Right. And they had a woman to man ratio six to one. No brainer.

Right. There we go. IUP. All right. So, I mean, yeah, absolutely. That's, that's, you haven't locked on. Target rich environment. Exactly.

So, so what, so you. go to college, have you started thinking about going back in the military at this point? No, not at all. I have no desire to go back in the Marine Corps. Okay. All right, out of the military at all. Junior year, Brian comes up to me. Hey, Jim, I get a great idea.

I'm like, what? Let's go to Officer Cannon School. We're going to be pilots. I'm like, what? He goes, yeah. I'm talking to the Officer Canaan. Oh, so, the Officer Canaan School guy here. Let's go do it.

I'm like, all right, fine, let's do it. I don't want to leave him. I want to do it with him. We go to college together. We're going to go to OCS together. Go through all of the paperwork drill. I get accepted in the program. He does it.

I'm like, how did that happen? So a couple weeks later, I'm off to Officer Canning School for the Marine Corps. And, you know, here I am going to, and a funny story before I go to Officer Canaan school. I'm bartending at a bar in New Jersey, loving life, you know, lifeguard and bartending, and now I have to get to Austin County School for the Bulldog course, you know, the PLC Jr. Bulldog course in the summer. So Brian, in his infinite wisdom again, he's like, hey, Jim, you know, it was the night before I had to go to OCS. He's like, hey, Jim, you know, can you help me out? I need some help with this.

And I'm like, Brian, I've got to pack. I haven't packed yet. He's like, no, no, just come to Frankie's and just meet me here. I just got to do a couple things. And I'm like, yeah, fine, that's okay. I go there. They're having a go away party for me. And I do not get home until four or five in the morning.

Some girl drops me off at the house. I don't know where my car is. I don't know where my keys are. I'm living with my grandparents. I haven't packed. My grandma was like, jam, what are you doing? I'm like, damn, screw the bag. So he picks me up with my car and we're driving to Newark Airport so I can go to Officer Canning School and fly down to Quantico, Virginia, literally threw up on the side of the car, get to the airport.

I'm hungover. I get to OCS. And I just am like, you know, I have been through Marine Corps boot camp. I've been in the Marines for almost five years. Right. I don't want any part of this. You know, drill instructors yelling at me. and I'm like, oh my God, I'm just tired.

And go grab your seat bag. Run over here, run over there, do this, do that. And probably one of the funniest things that ever happened to me in boot camp, and I've done some really fun stuff. We all get in our squad bay. And they're like, the drill instructor's all the way at the end of the squad bay. And he's just screwing with everybody. Grab your boots.

Come out to the ear. And you have to run back and forth and put it in your wall locker. And I'm like, F this. I pull the foot locker over. I sit on it and I'm just hungover and I just, I'm taking like, grab four skibbies. I'm just like holding them up and throwing them. And the guys next to me are like, what are you doing? Don't do that.

Get on. And I'm like, shut up. I've been through this before. I was an undergrad at a boot camp. I didn't know, but the squad bay at the end, there was a door. And these drill instructors are going up and down the passageway, you know, the ladder well. And they looked in and they saw me. And literally, they told me.

And literally, they told me after graduation, we watched you for about 15 minutes. They were laughing their asses off. Like, who is this guy? They kicked the door in, and they come screaming, you know. I had eight drill instructors screaming at me. Like, and I just locked him in position of attention and all yelling at me. I'm like, ah, hungover.

That's day one of OCS. Now, fast forward, I wind up graduating and winning the class. Commodonts trophy as a junior, top national graduate out of Officer Cannes School for the Marine Corps. And had the highest grade point average ever, had the obstacle course time record, you know, and just was, you know,

I was based upon like my time prior service, you know, desert storm, you know, it was just easy. Right. Easy for me. Right. Right. So when you, when you graduate this, Are you commissioned as a Marine Corps officer, as a naval officer? Like, how does that work? So I was just juniors. Okay.

You have to go back for seniors. And when you graduate seniors, you take your commission and then you go to TBS. Okay. But funny story. I go back the next year for seniors. And this time I don't get drunk and hung over and I go down there and I'm going to take it serious. Because now I'm, you won the Commandant's trophy. And when I was enlisted, I was on a poster for Marine War.

or a recruiting poster. So I'm like, you know, hey, Jim, take your career serious because I won the trophy. And at my university, they gave me a trophy and they presented the university with the award too. And a two-star general came down. And it kind of made me think, hey, I'm going back in.

I'm going to be an officer. I'm going to be a pilot. Maybe I should not be a shithead anymore. Right. And so I go back for seniors. And it's the first weekend we have Liberty. And I go out to Q-Town. and then I go out to Quantico and I'm drinking and having fun smoking cigarettes, being gym,

wound up hooking up with this girl. And she's like, hey, you know, come on with me. And I'm like, okay, so wound up hooking up in the back of her car. And she drives me next morning, early, early in the morning, back to the base. And I get on the base and, you know, I'm like, see you later. Thanks. So I'm getting ready for inspection on Sunday. and I can't find my ID card.

And I'm like, you're going to have to put it in my left breast pocket. And I can't find it. I can't find my wallet. I'm like, oh, shit. And I go through formation and all of a sudden I hear on the loudspeaker, Officer Kennedy of Cisco report to the drill instructor's office immediately. And I'm like, oh, no, what's going on? So I go run down there, bang, bang, bang,

Officer Kenne's Cisco reporting his order, sir. And you're like, get in here, pig. And I'm like, locked up. And they start asking me all these. questions like where were you this weekend what you do da da da da and i'm like whatever and they're like did you do anything did you meet with a girl did you do anything inappropriate and i'm like now i'm like starting to get back to myself like i don't know what do you consider inappropriate to like lock it up so finally one of the like senior drill instructors goes who's the eighth

person in your chain of command and i'm like oh you know who knows what they're He's like, how about General Cox? And I'm like, okay, great. He goes, do you know the girl's name you were with last night? And I'm like, I think it was Stephanie or something. He was like, how about Stephanie Cox? The general opened the door for the grandmother to let her in the car to go to church and saw my wallet. Opened up my wallet saw the officer can sticker on the ID card.

Next morning at 0.4.30, he's standing in the Chauhall line. I come out of the left face. There is this short little guy and goes, Officer Can't Cisco. I'd advise you to be a little more careful what you do on liberty, understand me? And he takes my wallet and throws it in the eggs. And I go, yes, sir!

And turn and I'm out. Anyway, I didn't win the commandant's trophy again. I got a, like a bad grade for leadership, showing poor judgment. But now I'm always. off. I'm going to be an officer. I'm going to TBS. Put the brakes on. What? What's going on? Well, you need to get another eye exam. It's been two years since you've gotten one and you need to get on. Oh, I'm like, okay, I go get an

eye exam. It's not 2020. Well, you can't be a pilot. It's not 2020. And I'm like, what do you mean? So I go take another eye test, comes out 2020. Then they're saying, well, you might have got refractive surgery, so you've got to go to get this procedure done to make sure you to get it. Now, I'm 26. I'm getting on the borderline of having to get a waiver. Right. And they're like, oh, well, we're not going to give you your flight contract, but you can go back and be a ground or whatever.

And I'm like, no, this is not what I signed up for. Right. I'm walking out of the officer, you know, the Marine Corps recruiting station, uh, office. And Navy guy looks at me. He's like, hey, come on in. And I'm like, okay. Now there you got it. I am now off to Officer Canaan School in Pensacola, Florida,

with Marine Corps drill instructors who find out that I am this former golden child, poster boy, honor grad out of Buchamp, commandant's trophy winner, now I'm in the Navy. Right. Didn't go well. So how does it go? So here's how it goes. I am in a room with a seal, a former seat, well, he's a seal, he was going to be an officer.

Yeah. A swimmer who went to Stanford University who missed the Olympics by like two-tenths of a second. Me and a flight contract whose father was a three-star admiral. Uh-huh. I am sitting there chewing tobacco, spitting in my doorgate clan, you know, door lit up shining. stuff or brass. And the officer canist would come on into our room

and they'd be like, attention on deck and we'd be like, get out of here before we'd kill you. I remember we would go to McDonald's in my car through the drive-thru

and bring McDonald's back into the barracks eating McDonald's. You know, the whole place would stink of McDonald's. Yeah. And everybody's,

you know, dying for food. Yeah. One time, the seal and I, we went down to the drill instructor's quarters. Hey, sir, we didn't get enough workout, PT, and can you, can you let us go to the gym?

They're like, oh, come here, pigs. So OCS was fun for me. And the funniest thing I ever did, and I went during Christmas, so I got to drive home and go for Christmas and then come back. And I brought my Marine Corps uniform with me, and I had a plan. So one night, I sneaked down into the drill instructor's shack, and I take one of their smokies, and I take one of their belts. I dress in my candies. And then after lights out, I change.

And all of a sudden, I just turned on the lights and the batters, start kicking cans, screaming, get out! And I just torture everybody for about 25 to 30 minutes. I have mattresses out. I have people crying. They think I'm a drill instructor who came in in the middle of night just to screw with them. I get two foot lockers and stack them up at the end of the squad bay. And I'm like, get out of here, get online. And they're like, I'm in the Marines.

You know, I was in the Marines. I know how to do this stuff. And they're all standing in the position of attention. I have my head down, like a journal instructor. And I go, Merry Christmas. And they're like, holy shit. It's Officer Canary Francisco. So that was like the funnest thing for me.

I remember that. And then I get done with Officer Cannes School. And now I'm on my way to being a intelligence officer. Excited about it. And I go to Damneck, Virginia, a little creek, and I'm waiting to get picked up for my Intel class. And they're so backed up at that point. I have eight months.

Wow. And eight months. And I'm like, well, what are we going to do? Just drink and hang out for eight months, you know? they're like we got to build it for you you're going to the SEAL team I'm like cool I'm like great that is awesome

I'm going to go you know get to do this shit that I know how to do and I have fun doing it yeah so I'm Little Creek and I go over to the SEAL team and Commander Bozes Chesewski is waiting for me and this guy's like got a great history well respected in the community and uh he's like hey come on in Jim sit down and I'm like hey sir he's like

uh you know What's up with you? And I'm like, well, you know, at Dammec and I'm going through, you know, Intel school. But we got backed out. So he sent me over here. I'm going to, you know, be assigned here for the next eight months, seven months. He's like, great. What's your background?

We start talking. He finds out I was in the Marines. I was in Desert Storm, you know, did deployments, views, jump school, all this shit. So he's like, all right, just head down to the Intel shop, go to supply, check in, get your gear. And, you know, how about it? Have fun. I'm like, okay. and I remember checking in

and I was only down there the first week and I remember and this kind of started my like disdain for seals very arrogant and very uh just anyway not all of them but a majority and I'm sitting down there in my PT year as an ensign

you know guys would come down like hey who's the new guy I was like oh that's the new ensign he's an intel guy and you're like oh another booger eater great and I'd be like okay you know so then they start like testing me hey sir i uh we're going to go on a run tomorrow you want to come and i'm like oh yeah i mean yeah i guess that would be cool but i got it's 10-mileer you up for it and i'm like yeah i mean i think i can do it you know i was in ocs and we ran five

miles you know and they're like so we get the end of the 10-mile run and i'm like i came in like second or third and i'm like clapping them in yeah good job come on push it that last hundred yards you can do it. They're like, who the hell is this guy? So a week later, they're like, hey, sir, we're doing an open mile, one mile open water swim tomorrow. You want, you in? And I'm like, I don't know, guys. I'm not a strong swimmer, you know, but I mean, I'll try. You know, we get done with the swim and same thing. I came in like third of, you know, and I'm clapping him in. Hey, you can do it. You know, you're like, this guy's weird, you know, what's going on? So the final one, like, hey, sir, we're going to the rifle range.

I'm like, oh, cool. I shot a 9-0 in OCS. I really like it, you know? And they're like, okay. So they take me in the rifle range and they're like, this is the SIG-Sauer, this is the MP5, this is the, you know, and I'm like, oh, this one looks cool. Can I try this one?

They don't know that, you know, I've done all this stuff and was doing training for HRT and direct action, was in the hot house and brag. Yeah. And I don't tell them anything. And they're like, well, sir, this is your site alignment and this is your site picture. And this is how you do trigger squeeze. And I'm just sitting there, oh, well, that's really cool.

So they come over, you know, they send me off and then, you know, go sheet on your own for a while. I'm like, okay. And they come over and like, hey, how are you doing, sir? And I'm like, I had my target, you know, on the bench. And I'm like, I didn't do good guys. I'm like, I'm sorry. And they're like, what's the matter? And I'm like, you know, I tried that stuff you were telling me about, like this trigger squeeze.

And, you know, I had to cite picture and the site alignment. And I just, I don't know. I mean, I just don't know what happened. They're like, well, let me see your target. And I had them like all in the black except for like two outliers and like one, you know, screamer. And I'm like, yeah, I'm sorry, guys. Sorry to disappoint you. I didn't get them all in the black.

and they're like looking at me like are you insane yeah and so we have this well they have a steel team tradition you know when they bring a new person on i don't know if you're familiar with it but at the all uh you know the all hands meeting they're like yay come on up and we're going to welcome ensignisco let's give ensignisco a big seal team welcome and we have similar traditions and recon so i know what's going to happen but the commander's like hey before before you guys give a big seal team, welcome to Ensign Cisco. Let me give you a little background. And now he starts telling everybody.

Encin Cisco was in the Marine Corps. He was in RECON. He was in Desert Storm. He deployed here. He did this. And I just watch him all looking at me like, are you kidding me? And I know what's going to happen. So he goes, hey, go ahead,

Encin Cisco. Go ahead and tell us a little about yourself. And I know the minute you open your mouth, everybody starts screaming, shut up, assholes. sit down, fuck you. So I just preempt it. He goes, go ahead and test a little about yourself. And I go, so I bend her over and I'm fucking her in the ass.

And I starts, and everybody just gets quiet. And they're like, oh my God. And I go, if you want to talk about this offline, come see me later on. And everybody just starts laughing and cheering. Yeah. So, you know, that kind of like was my introduction to the SEAL team, which kind of the fun eight months, but towards the end, the commander came up to me and said, hey, Jim, you would be an incredible officer in SEAL. I want you to go to BUS. And I said, sir, I am too old.

I am too, I'm not too old physically. I just was too old, but sure. I said, I won't do this. I would, I mean, I would love to just be a SEAL officer, but I don't want to go through Bucks. Not because I can't go through it. Right. I'm 56 years old right now, and I'll bet you a million dollars that I would pass buds. Yeah. Because it's more mental than physical. But I said, I couldn't have some senior chief coming up to me going, hey, Ensign, your boat team's dead.

What are you going to do? And I would probably look at him and go, well, fuck it. It's time to go to the officer club. You want to join me? Oh, wait, you can't. So forget about it. Yeah. Yeah.

It was all attitude. So let me ask you that when you were working in the two shop there, I mean, that must have been a good learning experience for you, right? Yes and no. And the reason I say this, and this is actually a mirror of my career as an intelligence officer, I was an intel guy, but I had the special operations stink on it. So believe it or not, even as an ensign in the SEAL teams, I was an advisor on operational readiness exercises.

I was going out on operations. I was like parachuting in with them and, you know, so yes, I got some introduction to Intel, but I was still being an operator in a way. So it was really weird. Right. So you go through that and then then you get into the Intel school. And how long is that that Intel school for an able Intel officer? It's months.

I think, I forget. It was like five months, six months. I mean, it was grueling and it was terrible. We were still learning like, this is a badger. This is the fox shop. Pictures wrecky of planes and tanks. I mean, not sophisticated like today. And it was just, I mean, but that was the error.

It was totally different. And it didn't prepare you for anything to be honest with you. Right. to either your squadron or your ship or wherever and you were just ate up like a soup sandwich and you just got buried. Yeah. And that was just the way. That was the Intel community back then.

Yeah. So what was your first assignment out of the Intel officer course then? For me, I was very fortunate because I was prior service and they sent me down to J-Lab, Joint Warfare Analysis Center, Dalgren, Virginia. and I was part of a high-speed organization that did infrastructure targeting and really some cool stuff modeling and simulation. And I was there for three years. And I was able to get right into SAT programs. And so my whole Ensign tour was totally different.

Like most ensigns are on a ship or in a squadron and they're just trying to live. Right. And I'm learning all this cool stuff and writing the programs and briefing the commanding officer. of J-Wak on the Hamarabi and Nebuchadnezzar division in Iraq and how they're moving. And I'll never remember, I'll never forget this. I'm giving a presentation and I'm talking about all this complex maneuvering and the CEO, Peter Heatley, who was in Top Gun as a camp, did a cameo on Top Gun, arrogant, arrogant guy. And he's like looking at the brief and he's looking at the slides.

And I'm like, man, he's digging it. He's like really into it, you know? I'm waiting for these great questions. And he goes, Ensign Cisco. Is that the J-WAC format for those slides? And I literally looked at him. I looked at the J-2. I put down my little briefing thing and goes,

and that concludes my portion brief. Thank you very much. And I walked out. And I still have six slides to go. People were like, who the fuck is this incident? Who the hell does you think he is? I went back to my cubicle and I started working. Yeah.

Day 2's up my ass, everybody's screaming. Where did you go? You don't just walk out in the CO. You need to go see the CEO immediately. I'm like, okay. I walk in the CEO's office. He's like, what was that about? I said, sir, if you're more interested in the font than what I'm saying, you're wasting my time.

I don't want to waste yours. And he's like, okay. So once again, you see this pattern of my behavior. And I just wasn't. typical mold for an intel guy. Yeah. You want that booger eater sits in the cube, pounding away at the keyboard. And people join Naval Intelligence because they think it's like Jack Ryan in the Hunt for Red October.

And they have no idea that it's not like that at all. Right. Right. So after your, so how long did you, you said you spent three years there? Three years. And after that, I have to do the typical career. They send me out to Fallon, Nevada. And that is when there's top, top guns out there.

And I'm going to be a targeteer. It's one of the best positions for a junior officer, naval intelligence officer, being a targeter. Fast track, career promotion, all the cool people do it. And I go through targeting school at Fallon. I get assigned to carrier air wing seven. And I think it's a really cool mission. and you know and and and and and I'm ready to do this and uh everything in the

intel community's personality driven the Kagi eyes that you know everybody and 9-11 kicks off we are in uh off virginia beach on the USS John F Kennedy I remember watching on the news the airplanes crash into the tower I'm in charge of my strike bay and I don't really know what to do I'm like, turn the TVs off. Just turn them off. Let's get to work. We're going to be doing something.

I don't know what it is, but we can't be distracted. And a couple, I mean, like an hour later, we're cruising, we're doing air packs. F-18s, F-14s are launched with Stinger missiles, air-to-air missiles, and we're doing death packs. Anything that flies in unresponsive, we're shooting down. Right. next thing you know

I am off you know I'm doing all the targeting stuff and we pull back in and I'm Advon and I'm leaving to go to Centcom fifthly as the targeting officer for the Carrier We 7

Advanced Party before the ship gets there Okay and so where do you go to from there to Advon to get out there They just flew me out there, but I have a really funny story. Yeah, tell this one. Yeah.

I am with these two sailors who are in the strike bay with me, and we're in Virginia Beach, and we're flying out of Oceania on a Mac flight the next day. And they're like, hey, sir, what do you want to do? I'm like, come with me. I'm like, what are we doing? I'm like, sure, we can't go in the O club. I'm like, just go with me, shut your mouth. You're with me.

Don't worry about it. I was a lieutenant at the time. So now I'm a little more. more seasoned and we walk in the old club and I'm sitting down at the bar and I know the bartender from my time at the SEAL team and she knows me and she knew about you know how I was when I was at teams there's party guy fun getting fights different world back then yeah and when I was in Intel school the first day in cell school I get pulled out of class and

And one of the instructors is like, hey, we're going to have to roll you. Remember, I was seven months at the teams, and now I'm in the first day of class. I'm like, what? You mean, roll me? Like, there's a complaint for EEO against you or somebody in the class meeting. And I'm like, what? The night before we went out, and one of the females in the class were all drinking, and she's like, Cisco, why are you always partying? I'm like, shut up, Mary.

You're just jealous because you're fat and I won't hook up with you. So she made this complaint. So the instructor comes out and he's like, hey, you know, we're going to have to roll you. I'm like, no, no, no, no, sorry. And I'm like, no, I'm like, no, I'm walking down to CO's office right now. I'm not, no, no, no, no, don't go down there. I'm like, well, what's going on? Is it Fat Mary?

Was it Fat Mary? She said something, didn't she? He's like, stop it. And I'm like, bring her out here. Get Fat Mary out here. So anyway, he cuts her out. And I'm like, Mary, did you say it was an asshole last night? If you say it, this and that, she goes, yeah, you are.

And I go, I have a witness. I want to press EO Chargerid. He's like, okay, that's it. Just get inside. And I'm like, ha-ha. So here I am at the Oceano Club. I'm three or four Jack and Waters and about half a pack of Marlboro Reds into my night. The two, unless you guys are on both sides of me.

And I guess tap on the shoulder. Tap, tap, tap. And I turned my head. and it's Mary Gwen. Iceberg was her nickname. Iceberg or a call sign because she had a big ass and nothing up top. And I remember looking over at her. I took a drag of my cigarette.

I blew a smoke in her face. And she goes, hey, Cisco. And I went, Mary Gwen. And she goes, are you still an intel? I take a drink of my jack. Take another drag of my cigarette. Look at her, blow smoke in her face and go, yep. She goes, I get a lap transfer.

I'm an F-14 Rio. You're still fat. I was right, and the two guys next to me are like, what the hell? She goes running away. And two minutes later, there's about 15 pilots in their flight suits standing behind me. And I hear, is that the guy?

And I just turn around and look. And he goes, did you call my white fat? And I go, is very much your wife? He goes, yeah. I go, yeah. And he goes, I'm going to kick your ass. And so the bartender's like, yo, whoa, wait a day. The listed guys are like, hell yeah, game on.

We're going to fight officers. And the bartender's like, hey, guys, I hate to ruin your night. And he talks, she's talking to pilots. He goes, you go outside with that guy. He's going to destroy you. And he's like, we got eight of us. And he goes, she goes, I don't care if you have 10. I would recommend you leave.

And then he kind of wants to save pace. He's like, well, you need to apologize. And I go, get the fuck away from me. Next day we fly out. So I get out to CENTCOM and I start integrating into the targeting thing. The ship comes out. And we start running 24-7. and I'm doing all the targeting for Operation Anaconda.

And I'm working with Task Force Dagger, Task Force Stiletto, doing all the targeting. We're trying to prosecute targets and kill Osama bin Laden. And we do this for, I mean, like four months straight and take break. So can you tell us what the targeting process is for you guys? Yeah. So here's what happens. task force stiletto and task force dagger on the ground that's the CIA and ODA teams so they have eyes on and they're trying to PID identify high value targets once they get PID on these high value targets our planes launch from the aircraft carrier and they're up in the stack they're just flying around in circles and they're armed with either J-dams or whatever the munitions are for the different missions and once they get PID,

Task Force dagger and Staletto will come back to me. I'm like, hey, we got this, and then I relayed the message, and everything goes back to Fifth Fleet, to CENTCOM to the National Director of Security to make a decision. Right. So imagine being the targeting officer. You're at the tip of the spear,

and you're like day in and day out, just getting your balls busted because they'll PID something on the ground and by the time it goes all the way up to, you know, national security level and then gets back down, Target's gone. Right, right. So, for me, that was probably the most frustrating time in my career.

Yeah. I used to be that guy in the ground and love being the guy in the ground. And now here I am being the targeting guy to support them. Yeah. And can't, can't do it. Right. That's got to be very frustrating. So how long did was your first pop like that?

That was a 10-month deployment. Okay. And so you were doing targeting that time. And we all, like everybody expected it would be quick, but it turns out that it's not going to be quick. What happens after that deployment for you? So after that deployment, you know, I leave the air wing. I leave the air wing and it wasn't like a good,

departure, you know, because of what, the crews. And I got put in for a bronze star as a lieutenant for the targeting stuff I was doing. And the Army put me in for it. Imagine being a Navy guy. The Army puts me in for a Bronze Star. And my leadership says, we're going to demote it to an ARCOM. Right. You're just a lieutenant.

Right. And that was the first time of three in my career that they downgraded a bronze star for me. Yeah. So I'm kind of pissed off at the command. And it didn't go well, didn't like leadership. My mom has cancer, terminal cancer. And I'm on the ship. And the CAG AI, Lieutenant Commander, comes up to me.

He's like, hey, Jim, we got an Amcross. And we just want to let you know your mom has terminal cancer. And, you know, you can leave crews right now if you want to, we'll fly you off. And I'm like, yeah, no shit. I know she has terminal cancer. Do you think I don't talk to her? Yeah. And he's, you know, well, I just want to let you know, if you want to leave early, you can leave.

But if you leave early, you're not going to get tax free. And I'm like, what? You know, my mom's dying. He's worried about me getting tax free. Right. So I was living. Yeah. I wanted to kill him.

Yeah. I was literally looking for him on the ship. I was going to throw him off the ship or kill him. Anyway, I didn't leave early. I stayed on the entire cruise, the rest of the cruise. I got home. Went back to found. Nevada drove all the way to Pennsylvania. I was just drinking mountain dues, chewing tobacco,

smoking cigarettes, drove straight through, got home, spent 20 days with my mom. And everybody's like, she's going to die any second. And when she found out I was coming home. And when I saw her, everybody's like, she changed overnight. You know, she was like physically, she could walk. She was doing stuff. And I felt great. Spent 20-something days with her and drove home. back to Fallon, got home and was playing golf on a Sunday. I was only home for two days. My sister calls me out. Mommy's dead.

I'm like, oh, thanks. And for me, it was another kind of like point in my life. I had to deal with tragedy or death or trauma. I don't call it trauma. That's just life. Yeah. But I was fortunate to, have that time with my mom.

Yeah. And, and, uh, I really enjoyed that. But that was, uh, you know, that was, uh, for me a difficult time in my life, um, you know, terrible deployment and a great deployment for what I was doing, terrible leadership, you know, and then dealing with that. And, and, and, but then it's time for a new start. I'm going to go get smart. I'm going to, uh, become, uh, get, um,

my master's degree. So I go to Washington, D.C., I go to Joint Military Intelligence College, and I wind up getting my master's degree in science and strategic intelligence. And it's for the first time in my life, I really understand that I am smart. I am intelligent. Remember, I'm supposed to go into the union and get a union book and work on the back of a garbage truck and join the Marines enlisted. I go to college and I do really well in college, but still have that stigma. I'm like, I'm not that smart. Not intelligent. Go get my master's degree. And I am

partying still. I'm going out. I'm dating a Redskins cheerleader. I'm going on vacations and just partying. And it's like about a month before graduation. And one of my good friends, Air Force major, comes up to me and he goes, I hate you. I'm like, what do you mean you

you hate me? He goes, have you looked at your grade point average? And I go, no, should I? And he goes, You are one-tenth of a percentage point below me for Class Valor Victoria. I'm like, really? I wasn't even trying. And he goes, I know. I go to study sessions.

I try. I do all this stuff. And you're out partying. And it was at that point, I kind of looked at my career and said, wow, I'm kind of screwing up. You know, I'm having fun and I'm partying and I'm, like, doing all this stuff. I didn't take my career seriously. Right.

I think it was at that point, I decided, hey, maybe I should start taking my career seriously. So I have an opportunity. I have an opportunity to deploy it to Afghanistan. And I'm going to take this opportunity. It's going to be a, you know, a change for me in my career. And best, best or second best tour of my life.

I, you know, I train up and I go to, Afghanistan. Don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going to be a naval intelligence officer and I'm going to Afghanistan. And I get there and it's all army and it's all, you know, it's all jacked up. And, you know, the Navy guy comes in with a different uniform, you know, brown uniform. And, and, uh, they put me in the frick. The force or the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, I forget the acronym. But anyway, it was the Jake, the joint intel analysis center or some shit like that. So, So I'm in the Jake, and they don't really have a job for me. I have this Army colonel, really great guy, and then this lieutenant colonel, another great guy, great people there.

And they're like, well, we don't really know what to do with you. But Colonel Chesney, he runs all of President Karzai's engagement tours. You have a background in Marines and special forces. Go talk to him. I'm like, okay. So I go in and introduce myself. He's like, you're my man. I needed an assistant for a while.

We didn't have a billet. You're now my deputy. I'm like, cool. Three weeks later, I am on a plane with President Karzai on the way to Condon. And I am working with the colonel and doing all of the logistics, all of the security, working with the presidential protective service, working with National Director of Security, MDS. and just having a time of my life. I get split up from the group.

I'm sitting in the Shura with about 500 Afghans. I'm the only American because I got split up from the group sitting at this huge table. I don't speak Dari. Nobody speaks English. And I'm just sitting there and they have Afghans all around it. And they start bringing out plates of food and non and oranges and, and all of this Afghan food. And all of a sudden, they put this goat's leg right in front of me.

Still got the hook on it. I'm like, what the hell is this? And the guy next to me is like, ugh, ugh. And I'm like, he's like, eat. And I'm like, I don't know how. So he takes the piece of bread and he rips it off, the non, and it takes the rice and they put it in their hand and they eat it. and then just shoves his hand right in the goat's leg and rips out a piece of meat,

puts it in the bread easy. So I'm like, oh, my God. So I just do the same thing he does. I'm overdramatic about it, ripping the bread, and everybody's watching me, and they're all laughing. And the rice is all over me. And that was my first introduction to Afghan culture. And I will tell you, I did three, well, three tours in Afghanistan.

so, you know, 9-1-1, you know, that was really targeting, but I spent almost two years in Afghanistan. And I love the culture. I love the people. I mean, I just fell in love with Afghanistan. But here I was a lieutenant in the Navy as the deputy for a colonel, army colonel, and I'm running all of President Clark's eyes engagement tours. And I remember I'm in the jic and Jake, whatever it was. There's a call to the colonel had gotten emergency orders to go to ICAF. He's just like two days later, he's gone.

And all of a sudden there's a call to the Jake, and the lieutenant colonel picks up the phone, and he's like, hey, man, President Clark has got a trip to Boddachan. Where's the colonel? And like, he went to ICath. Like, go over to the palace. I'm like, okay. So I know the chief of staff. I know the chief of protocol.

You know, I've done a couple, you know, some, I know. engineer Naveel, who's the head of the PPS. And here I am. And they're like, okay, well, we're going to plan the mission. You got to go do this. I'm like, okay, so I just did it. Yeah. It was easy.

Yeah. Next thing I know, I'm in Bavichshan, which is of the northern part of Afghanistan and the winner. And I'm with the Advon team and the security team. And it's me, the Department of State guy, and about a dozen, uh, a dozen, uh, Afghans, PPS. And when you go to Afghanistan, you go through the cultural training, don't look at women, don't touch this, don't do that, don't cross your legs, you know, typical bullshit. And I remember we're going through the village and I hate the cold. Remember, I told you, hate the cold. I got my hat on, my scarf on. I'm like, go vortex up and blah.

And I see this girl come out of one of the little huts. And she literally has on a wool dress and no shoes. And she's running in the snow. And I'm like, whoa, I'm freezing. And she kind of stops and looks at me because it was funny because here's this white guy with all these Afghans. You know, she probably never seen an American before. And she stopped. stops.

And I literally just walk up to her and pick her, pick her up and kind of like, she's about like five or six years old and I have her like this. And I take my hat off and I put it on her head and I take my scarf off and I put it around her neck and I just put her down. She goes running away like, tears out, turns around like 10, 15 feet away, looks at me, smiles at me, waves and I wave and smile back and, you know, I felt good at that moment. Yeah. I felt like I did something.

You know, I was happy. I was content. It was peace in my life. And I turned around and I have a half dozen, or, you know, a dozen Afghans giving me the Afghan stink guy. And I'm like, fuck. And I had my emphasis. four across my shoulder. I just brought it down.

And I looked at him and my finger out like, I'm triggered well. You get a problem with that? Anybody got a problem with that? And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no. It's all good. I'm like, okay, good. What happened was I get back on the plane, Advon's done,

and this story gets told, but it gets to distort it. And it makes it all the way it's up to President Karzai. But some American grabbed an Afghan girl. touched her. You know, whatever touch means, you know, nothing perverted. And I get called into the chief of staff's office, chief of protocol wants to talk to me. Fortunately, the chief of protocol is a good guy. He went to Rutgers University. I'm from New Jersey.

We're tight. He said, what the hell happened out there? Anyway, finally makes it all the way up to President Karzai. I go meet with him and I tell him what happened. I'm like, and I'm not your typical 06. I'm just an 03. Right. I don't know how to interact with the president. Right. I'm not like, Mr. President, sir, I didn't.

I'm like, hey, hey, sir, this is what happened. That's total bullshit. Yeah. I'm like, I would never. And so he loves me. He loves me because I'm genuine. I'm authentic. Right.

I'm not a stuffy, you know, officer who's kissing ass and trying to worry about his career. I leave the palace and everything's cool. I come back the next day and everybody's looking at me when I'm walking around the palace like really weird and then I go to the PPS and everybody's like

looking at me weird and my buddy Azroff Osroff was him and I were tight over there he comes up to me and he gives me a kiss on the cheek and he kiss on the other cheek and he says my zoi from that time on

President Karzai said to everybody that this is a brother of Afghanistan. He is my son. So I had like the respect of everybody and I could do no wrong, which was a good thing, but which was also a bad thing because it gave me way too much authority.

Yeah. So I never abused that authority, but it was really weird, you know, understanding the culture, but it just got thrown into it. I would walk around the palace and the PPS agents would hold my hand. They would kiss me. They would try to take me to keep me

to kick chicken street and where all the prostitutes where they would want me to go out with them on Thursday night where you know they would you know they would have sex with each other yeah they want they I was a brother and I didn't do a lot of the things and they respected me because I chose not to do it and I told them I wouldn't do it but I let them do it but I had their respect and I love that tour until the end I don't know if everybody knows but general I was the ISAF commander at the time. And I don't particularly care for General Ikeby. And people will have comments.

I'll refrain from giving you my opinion. But I'm walking out of the palace. Now, I am the only American to ever be issued a palace badge. I can help me go as I please. And General Eikenberry is outside the palace with, like, his 30-man PTSD team and two up-armored SUVs and escalades. and he sees me. And I'm in this brown uniform

with my brown cover and my binder that I have from all my trips. And he goes, he sees me. And he goes, who are you? And I see him. And I'm like, fuck, I can't get out of this one.

And I just walk up to him and I go, good morning, sir. I'm Lieutenant Sisko. Who are you? And I did it. Kind of like sarcastic. And I didn't really think that I said that when it came out. And then I was like, oh, that came out.

And he goes, I'm General Eichenberg. And I go, well, nice to meet you, sir. And he, like, is still dumped out. And he's like, he shakes my hand. And I'm like, it was very nice to meet you, sir. I got to go. And I just turn around and start walking away. And he's like, stop.

Where are you going? And I go, I have a meeting with the chief of protocol and chief of staff. I've got to go. I'm going to be late, sir. Nice to meet you. and I just walk in the palace. I get back to the Jake about three hours later. And they're like, what the fuck did you do?

I'm like, what are you talking about? He's like, there is an all points bulletin on Camp Edgers looking for a Navy lieutenant in a brown in his brown uniform who was at the palace. You need to go see General Eikenberry right now. I'm like, all right, whatever. I go in and I'm like, you know, hey, sir, Lieutenant Sisko, was like,

what are you doing you? And I'm like, I'm telling him. Sir, I've been running President Karzai's regional engagement tours for seven months. And he's like, how come I didn't know about that? I go, I don't know, sir. After every trip, I write a after action report and send it to you. I guess you never read it. And he's like, the next day, I have an army colonel assigned to me, assigned to the jig.

He takes over for me. Biggest D-bag you ever met in your life. If he stops short, if President Karzai stopped short, he'd be four feet up his ass. Every picture, every engagement, every time he's out in the spotlight. And I'm like, sir, this is not our job. This is the Afghans. We're behind the scenes. Right.

Don't be, don't try. And so we were like this. Anyway, I get done with that tour. President Karzai writes me a letter to be one of the next White House fellows. So think about this. I apply to be a White House fellow. My career trajectory is just off the charts. And lo and behold, the Navy has a certain way of screwing things up. I'm engaged. I have her fiancé. She's a nut job, but she's smoking hot.

and trying to break up with her. She keys my Corvette. I had a 62 Corvette, a BMW. I mean, I'm living in an old town, Alexandria. She goes psycho, keys the car. I have to call the police. She calls my command and writes a letter. And I'm telling my command, what's up with this?

She winds up saying that I was physically abusive, that I had suffered from PTSD and war trauma. And she did all this just to sabotage. the White House Fellowship, you know, bust my balls. Meanwhile, she's in court, has to pay me $10,000, has to fix my cars, you know, we'll give back the engagement ring, and I'm like, oh, my God. So career path takes a little hiccup. Right.

And anyway, I decide that I'm going to go back to Afghanistan. They have this program called the Aftak Hands program. Sounds wonderful. I learn how to speak Dari. I go to language school and it's going to be awesome. I'm going to go back. But in the interim, I'm working at the Navy of regular warfare office. And I'm writing doctorate on coin, feed, because of my time in Afghanistan.

I've become the subject matter expert for the Navy and counterinsurgency and foreign internal defense. and wind up going to Ethiopia and signing a directive for the ambassador with the national, with the Ethiopian National Defense Force. As a lieutenant commander, I write to sign a treaty. The ambassador's like, yeah, Jim, you can go. Just go do it. So I start, you know, getting back to the career. Like, you know, I'm digging in, you know.

And I start working more with ASOC at Socom on some special mission stuff. on the Super Tacano, on some Scan Eagle stuff, some really cool stuff. I wind up going to Balad. And this is the story that really changed my entire career. I'm in Balat, and that's the headquarters for Socom.

And I know the J2, Captain Heimberger, and he's kind of a dick, but get along with him. Brent Hydinger, big guy. Anyway, and I go over there with my adjunct. Admiral, Admiral Kennedy. We're talking about the special mission stuff. And it's like 3 o'clock in the morning.

They had just done a mission. They had rolled up some guy. They had killed two HVTs. And, you know, they come back. And we're Crystal's there. Hynd Bignor's there. A bunch of 05s, bunch of 06, my Admiral, me, Lieutenant Commander.

And the J-2 just started going, yes, sir, man, we kicked ass. You know, it's typical way, kiss-ass shit. And, you know, we rolled up Bag Daddy and we did this and we got that. And, you know, I'm like, swatching. And McChrystal's like, you know, taking it all in and he starts talking. And out of nowhere, I go, so how did this help? And everybody kind of looks at me.

And my admiral, he knew me. The coin fig guy is like, no, Jim, don't do it. It kind of grabs my arm. And McChrystal looks over and he goes, what? And I go, and what did this accomplish, sir? And he looked at me. And I had rehearsed this. I said, in the past six months, we've rolled up 287 guys.

We killed 314. We've done this. We've done 67 missions in here. We've done this. I laid it all out for them. And I said, what did we get, sir, besides high off tempo, a bunch of dead bodies and a bunch of people that are getting, you know, interrogated? I'll tell you what we got, sir. We've got a pissed off Sunni population.

We've got Shiites that are in rest. We have all this stuff, and the population is against us. You said Beloit. This is Iraq or Afghanistan? This is Afghanistan. Iraq. I'm in Iraq. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. And McChrystles just looks at me and he goes, have I ever ever told you about the arc of instability? At 6 o'clock in the morning, three hours later, he was done explaining to me. And he basically said, you are my hands-selected. to be the J2, I am going to Afghanistan, and you're coming with me. Because I told him I'd work for President Klazai and all that stuff.

He goes, you go learn how to speak Dari. And that's when I went to the language school. Okay. Yeah. And I get it, I'm a hand-select to go to Afghanistan again for my third tour. I'm going to be on the crystal staff. General Flynn's over there, and Flynn wants me to be the liaison for MDS, which is their CIA.

as a lieutenant commander. I am ruffling feathers everywhere. But I'm a hand select. And I'm a Chrysler's boy. And I am finishing language school. And they're like, go. Now, we're going to send you to immersion training. You are going to go live with Afghans in one of those stands.

So I'm in immersion training. And I'm like living in a house, all they speak is Dari. I'm eating Afghan food. It's cool as shit. Don't get me wrong, but I'm like struggling to learn Dari. Anyway,

I fly to Camp Eggers, I think, or I forget where I was flying to. And I get there. And that day, the Rolling Stone article comes out. Boom. When Crystal's out of country, a couple weeks later,

Petraeus rolls in. I'm in limbo. I'm sitting around with my thumb up my ass. I don't know what to do. can't go to Flynn, he's leaving, Porter's coming in, all this stuff's happening. So I'm just like, well, wait until Petraeus comes in.

How bad could it be? Petraeus comes in, and I schedule a call with him. Hey, sir, Tenticamander, Cisco. I'm just here to introduce myself and find out where I'm going to sit on your CAG staff or I'm scheduled to be the liaison for NDS and really can't wait to get to work for you, sir. I've got some great experience and insights that could help you out. Thank you very much, Lieutenant Commander. All right.

What do you mean, sir? I got this. I have a Cag staff. I don't need you. I'm like, sir, I don't think you understand. I worked for President Karzai. I speak Darry. I know this country like the back of my hand.

I've traveled everywhere. I know Taliban. I know A&A, A&P. I know all the commanders. Thank you very much, Lieutenant Commander, Cicco. We'll find a spot for you. I said,

I just want to let you know something. Not only did I do all this stuff, but I've also studied Iraq. And let me just tell you one thing. Don't think that your troop surge plan is going to work in Iraq, the way it's working Afghanistan the way it did in Iraq. It's not going to. And oh, by the way, your troop surge isn't the reason why we won in Iraq. it was the Sunni awakening in the Sons of Liberty.

So I just want to let you know that. And he's like, you're dismissed. Thank you. So it didn't go well for me. I got put in the Frick, which was the force reintegration cell, and I started doing my own thing. I started running reintegration missions. I started meeting with Taliban.

I started calling Taliban in the, who had a Shura in the Peshwar Shira in Pakistan. I set up a contonement area in Jalalabad. I was going to bring in about 100 senior, well, 10 senior level Taliban, 100 mid-level and 500 regular soldiers Taliban, had everything set up. I was working with the commanding officer of the Frick, who was a Canadian Army two-star general.

loved what I was doing. He's like, just go do it. I'm going out on reintegration missions talking to Taliban. I'd be like, no my chubachis, what's your name?

And I'd be like, oh, no me, whatever. And I'd be like, Chi card me, Kun you, what do you do? What's your job?

And like, man, this is the funniest one. This guy comes up to me and he goes, Man, Taliban, Stoom. I am a Taliban.

I'm a Taliban. And I go, Shuma Taliban based Man Talibanist. I'm like, you're not a Taliban and I am. We start laughing. I go, no, Roostee, what do you do? She called me, but what do you do? Because I'm a teacher. They pay me money to come here and say I'm Taliban. So I'm able to talk to these people and

you know, understand what's really happening and get a different picture of the war than most people ever got. Yeah. I'm talking to Taliban. I'm talking to A&A who are out putting bombs on road sides at night, but they're on the A&A in the daytime. Or they're paying their brother to do it. And then they're telling me, Jim, don't go down that road tomorrow. I'm like, why? Just like, there's going to be a bomb there. I'm like, why are you telling me? Because you're my brother. I don't want anything to happen to you. But I don't want anything to happen. My brother, so he gets paid. So why don't you just go tell the engineers that there's

so this is how screwed up it is. I literally meet with President Clark's. brother, the one who was assassinated. Wallycombe, I forget what his name was, I'm sorry. And he says, now he's running narcotics. He's doing prostitution. He got more heroin than you want to know. He's being paid off by the CIA. He's being courted by DOD.

And I sit down with him and we're in a room. And I'm like, you're lucky. I'm not in charge. He goes, what do you mean? I go, I fly a helicopter in here, pick you up in your compound, fly you on the desert, and put one right between your head, between your eyes. And he's like, ah, Jim, you don't understand this war. And I go, oh, I do. And I know how to end it. And I said, he says to me, sometimes you have to do a little bad to have a little good. And I said it in Dari and didn't really understand the translation, but I knew and was had privy to so much information and insights. And it was so frustrated for me being in Afghanistan and watching the people.

People lived in abject poverty, no running water, no electricity. I spent a week in a village and at the end of my week out there, the village elder comes up to me. He's Jim John. You can't pick a goat. And I'm like, no, I can't take a goat back to me to me to be a and he's like laughing at me. He's like, you idiot. He's like, pick a goat.

And I'm like, no, I'm not allowed to take a goat back. And he's like, pick a goat. And I'm like, that one. He walks over, takes a night that slits his throat in front of me and says, tonight we feast for our brother. And this is the, the population, the people, the culture is amazing. Yeah. And we come in and don't know how to interact with the culture at all.

How was it for you? Because a lot of the Taliban, you know, were post-tune and whatnot. Like, you speak Dari. How are those interactions? Because you don't speak post-tune, correct? No, and Pach-Tune, believe it or not, is like Klingon. You speak Dari and you listen to somebody speaking Posh-Tune, and you're like, you can't even understand it. So it wasn't bad because where I operated was mostly Dari.

Okay. When I would go down to Kandahar or Jalalabad, you know, everybody's speaking posthum. Yeah. And it made it really challenging. But I will tell you a funny story. I mean, the governor's complex. Yeah. And I was sick.

I had the Kabul crud. And I mean, like 105 fever, chills. I'm like dying. And I'm like laying on the couch in the governor's office. And they forget that I'm in there because they all leave. You know, the sick American guy. And they come back in and there's Taliban. There's A&A.

There's A&P. they're meeting with the governor. You got narcotics traffickers. They're all talking. They don't know him on the couch. I let him talk for about 45 minutes. Yeah. Hilarious.

They're talking about who's doing what and everything. And finally, I just popped my head up. And they're like, holy shit. We didn't know he was in here. And they start talking in Dari about, like, me. And I, and there's some guys talking in posthune. And the governor's like, oh, Chin John, you know, whatever.

And the one guy was saying something about me, and I could hear him in Dari and something about, like, you know, I forget what, it was somewhat threatening. Anyway, I walked up to him, and they didn't know that I spoke Dari. And I said to the guy,

I can, I understood everything you said. I speak Dari. And the whole place got silent. and I said and he said something to me like, who are you or what do you do?

And when the Russians invaded Afghanistan, they had these guys who were spies. And the Afghans called them Jassus, which meant spy, but it meant killer. And when he looked at

and he said, what do you do? And I'm just dead pandem. And I went, man justoos is doing. And, whole place got signed. Yeah.

Because these are the guys would come in the middle of night and kill all families and everything. And they were like, fuck it, God. Right, right.

So that's kind of just one of the interactions. I mean, so it was just an amazing time for me. You know, I'm out there reintegrating, talking to real Taliban, trying to set up this time.

So here's the kicker. Petraeus finds out that I am doing all this shit because I brief them. I'm briefed and the twos and the threes and the fives and I'm like, I said all this stuff.

He puts the kibosh on it. I'm not going to allow this to happen. So at the same time that Petraise has put the kibosh on this, I'm going to my Canadian two-star general and I'm playing rugby out in Kabul at the compound with all the ISAF guys. I start getting interviewed by Paula Broadwell.

I don't know if people remember this, but Paula Broadwell was the writer for General Petraeus' biography, All In. And he was all in. He was balls deep. And I knew it. And I was telling everybody, he is banging her. No, not General Petraeus. No, he's awesome.

Mitzie McFaite is an advisor on my board. And she would tell me how Petraeus would hit on her all the time. And he's a creeper. And I'm like, okay. So Petraeus puts the kibosh on this. I'm pissed off. I'm like, fuck you. You're not going to ruin everything I worked for like almost a year for.

So I take the mightiest sword I have, the pen. And I start writing. I start writing articles in small wars journal. I start writing articles for other periodicals. I write a pen an article for Tom Ricks. Tom Ricks was the, he ran the best defense journal for foreign policy. And I write an article called The Cars I knew then, the Cars I see now. And it was talking about how effed up American operations were, how they were cycling in

and out, how there was no coordination, there was no continuity, how every different ISAF country had their own agenda, how every PRT didn't align. And I basically laid it out saying that it wasn't Karzai's fault, that he was just trying to stay alive. He didn't want to wind up like Nezabula with his head on a stick outside of Kabul. And I'll never forget. I'm sitting in my little cubicle with my little headphones on, all fat, dumb and happy. And I hear on the commanders, the cub, the commander's update brief,

who the fuck is Lieutenant Commander's Cisco? I want him in my fucking office immediately. I'm going to find the fastest horse, the shortest tree, the tallest tree, the shortest rope to hang him by his balls. Ricks changed the tidily article to the cars I see men, the cars I knew then, the cars I see it now, but he has good reasons for weirding out. Went over like a turd and punchbowl.

And anyway, the U.S. decide that that article was justification to kick me out of Afghanistan. So I got PNGed out of Afghanistan by my own country. President Karz, I loved the article. I called Ricks and said, hey, man, you've got to change the title list. He's like, can't do it. It's already out in publication. He said, but I'll hook you up.

So he said, he put it an addendum. I understand Lieutenant Commander Cisco is taking some heat from his superior officers. I suggest you look at the content of the article, the content of the article, aside the title, I took that on my own to change it. But that ruined my career. It was over for me. As an able intelligence officer who was on the fast track,

who was going to be a White House fellow, who was, you know, hand-selected by General Crystal, who learned Dari. And at that moment, my career was just a fireball. Yeah. And, you know, I couldn't really recover from that one. And, you know, I go back and I get assigned to DIA and I work for General Flynn.

But this time, I'm kind of just pissed because, you know, I was, I got passed over for commander. And at that point, I didn't care because I had 23 years in, you know, with my enlisted time. So I couldn't fuck with my retirement. But I go to DIA and I go to O'D and I, the office of the director of national intelligence. What a fucked up organization. That is supposed to be the pinnacle of the intelligence community where they coalesce all of the different intelligence community organizations to work together. And it was a joke.

And I worked for the NIM, the National Intelligence Manor, doing Southwest Asia, Southeast West Asia. And I was the Afghan expert. And it was a joke. Because that organization, yeah, And we talk about our time with Trump coming in and sec deaf and, you know, making decisions. Get rid of ODNI. It didn't solve anything.

Made it worse. It's all about budgets. Geographic areas don't even line up to the co-coms. It's a total joke. Eliminate that and you will eliminate half the problems in the entire community. What would make it better? When you were there, what was the supposed job of the ODNI? Like what were they?

doing like from an administrative function or what were they supposed to be doing? They were supposed to be coordinating all of the different activities within the different organizations and they tell us to me. OD and I would be the umbrella for CIA, DIA, NSA, NGIC, NGA. And what happened was every organization would bring a liaison officer. They would sit in the different directorates and NIMs. but it just created another preuricotic layer.

It didn't help operational capabilities or enhance them or optimize them at all. As a matter of fact, it lessened them because now you created another layer of bureaucracy. Like I said, the geographic areas didn't line up, and it turned into a food fight.

There's so much redundancy within the intelligence community. You could eliminate I would say 70% of the intelligence community and not have any impact on operational capability. Let me give you an example. When I was still in Afghanistan, I'm sitting in the General Petraeus brief, and they fly in an expert from the Defense Intelligence Agency. This expert is an Afghan regional expert and a subject matter expert on.

on President Karzai. He gets up there and delivers a 45 minute presentation on President Karzai. He talks about his childhood, his family, his brother, his father, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he gets done with his presentation. And he's like, gets his coin from General Petraeus and they're taking pictures and he's like all happy about himself.

Look at me. I'm with General Betray's talking about President Callers Eye. Now everybody's getting business cards from him and they're harumping him. And I wait and just watch and sit down and wait till the end. And, you know, the crowd's dying out. I walk up to him. I go. And I said this intentionally.

I said, hey, I saw your brief. And I didn't say it was a good brief. I didn't say it was a bad brief. I just said, I saw your brief. And he goes, oh, yeah, it was really good, wasn't it? And I go. No. I think that brief sucked. I go, I didn't think you know shit about President Karzai.

Now, this guy just got kicked in the junk. And he's like, what? You know, what? And I'm like, you don't know shit about President Karzai. I go, you probably can do a Google search and you just regurgitate a bunch of crap. He's like, well, how do you know? Do you know, what do you know about President Karzai? And I yell, I've had dinner with President Karzai.

I've met his family. I've traveled with President Karzai. I wrote his horse, which is another story. And he's like, what? And I go, and if you were such a Karzai expert, you would know who I am because I was the military liaison for him

for almost nine months. And you never sought me out. So that gives you an example of, like, the intelligence community. I want to be that Jack Ryan I want to be briefing General Petraeus on President Karzai. I want to get that coin. And in a nutshell, that's kind of why when I got PNGed

and I got out of the Marine or out of the Navy and out of Naval and tells us, I really wasn't that hurt. Yeah. I really wasn't. I was like, it's not an organization I'm going to miss. You mentioned Bala, you were in Bala, but you didn't really talk about an Iraq deployment. What was that about? So I did a couple other deployments and, you know, in between you just...

Right. Go to Ethiopia and go work for Ambassador Yamamoto. Yeah. Yeah, 20 years is a long career. So, yeah. Yeah. Go teach the Ethiopian National Defense Force how to fly attacked with UADs and then go deploy them to Somalia.

Yeah. You know, we don't talk about it. I think a lot of the tours that I've been on and the things I did. Yeah. And going up a lot. And, you know, and so for me, I just focused on the big stuff. Yeah. You know, Afghanistan and don't really talk about.

Is Afghanistan kind of where your heart was during the GWAT? Yeah. Like I said, I mean, I got introduced to a culture that was amazing. Yeah. People were resilient. And, I mean, I saw things and had, like I could see the train wreck happening and was telling people the train wrecks happening and they wouldn't listen. Right.

Like I would watch the NAA A&A soldiers, the A&P soldiers getting training. I would watch through night vision goggles throwing their boots over the fence that they just got issued by the American forces so they could get blowjobs through the fence. Yeah. I'm like, this is not a fighting force. Even the special operations command where I was training with them, I was assigned to. SIF Sock for a period of time. They were even trashed. And I could only scream at the top of my lungs as loud as I could.

But here's my retribution. I'm married. I retired. I am at home. Doorbell rings. My wife answers the door. She comes scurring to me. Looks kind of weird.

upset. Jim, I think you need to go out to the front door. There's two guys in suits waiting for you. I go, okay. I walk out. Two guys in suits, I look at him. I go, you here for the Petraeus thing? They look at each other like they're in shock.

And they go, what? I go for the Petraeus thing. Is this why you guys are here? And they go, yeah, how did you know? And I go, what took you so long? I got subpoenaed. to testify in the grand jury investigation against General Petrauss. All of the information that I was giving Paul of Broadwell,

which was all top secret SCI, everything about the contolment areas, my renegration missions, everything, she kept. And when they raided her house, had my name all over it. So they come to me. Hey man, what do you know? I'm like, I don't want to bury this guy. The subpoena, you know, I got issued. They never had the grand jury investigation. Went away.

However, now I'm the president and founder of Anodo Global, my company, Risk Advisory Service. I'm in New York City for a conference, and I'm on a panel with General Petraeus. Everybody's totally sucking his dick, asking them questions, you know, hey, sir, what about this? What about the troop service? What about this? you know and there's about four of us on the panel and we're being ignored and one of them is the CEO of Cambridge Analytica who I'm friends with so Petraeus gets asked another question and he tells us a little like long diatribe about Iraq and he gets done and once again I lean in

you're wrong well everybody looks at me everybody in the audience audience, the panel. And the moderator is like, excuse me? And I go, he's wrong. And let me tell you why. And I just laid it out. Bullet point, bullet point, bullet point, right down the line. And he sat there and listened. And the CEO of Cambridge Analytic goes, Mr. Cisco's analysis is spot on. I can confirm. Petraeus gets up. he's like oh I'm sorry I have to lead walks by me and as he walked by me he goes good seeing you Jim I go take it even take it easy David so who else was a private in the Marine Corps you know worked his way up did all this stupid stuff desert storm all this

stuff ensing in the you know Navy SEAL team all these fun adventures and half of the stories I haven't been told, you know, that are super cool. Yeah. And then makes its way to the, you know, going to be a White House fellow, you know,

hand select, and then in an instant. Yeah. Yeah. The good news is I have a great reputation within my community and the Marines and

recon and an outstanding reputation within my community as a naval telescope officer. and at the end of the day, I don't care. Right. The real thing I care about, I want my kids to watch this. I want my kids to know how an exciting life I had. I want my kids to take my footsteps, question authority, ask why.

Don't be average. Do the things that you want to do. Live a life worth. remembering. And, you know, I appreciate the time being on here. And I don't self-promote. I'm not a Jocco Willett or David Goggins. But I know my story is more powerful than theirs.

And more powerful than a lot of people. But I just don't want to tell it because I'm just Jim. Yeah. I'm a humble guy. And I've had an amazing career and have amazing life. And I have amazing life ahead of me. Well, we deeply appreciate you coming on a show. Where can people find you, Jim?

Well, I have my own podcast. It's called The War Journal, and it's on YouTube. But I'm not like that social media guy on Instagram and Facebook. And the other thing you can do is, you know, I have, this is the book that I wrote. And this is the book that I wrote about my time in Desert Storm. But it's not a book, there I was, killing bad guys. And this is a cool picture. This is me as a Lance Corp will get my blood wings punched into my chest on LZ Osprey in Camp Lejeune.

But let me tell you quickly about the book. It was a journal and it's right here. Yeah. This journal I wrote in almost every day when I was in Desert Storm. And this journal was like, here you go. I mean, it's got some years behind it. Wow. that's amazing that's the one thing i wish i had done during my service and and time after was was

journaled stuff yeah so that journal i wrote in every day and then i went through a terrible situation in my life i got through a i went through a terrible divorce and and anybody out there watching divorce is the ugliest thing in the world that brings out the mean evil in people my ex-wife i can't talk badly about her but But I saw a side of her that was worse than anything I've ever seen to any of my combat deployments. And I'm still in a custody battle for my kids. And I went through probably one of the darkest periods of my life. We talk about that time in Desert Storm where Mike gets blown up.

I find out that Ashley's cheating on me with him. That pain that I felt is a microcosm of the pain that I felt for. I would say years, months, definitely, you know, a month's years, I was in the darkest period of my life. Yeah.

I went to this journal and I opened it up and I read it. And when I got done reading it, I was, I was spent, I was done. Yeah. I wish that I had read

that journal throughout my life because it would have prevented me from making some of the mistakes that I made. Yeah. And that's why I wrote the book. It's because I want other people.

And it's not just military, anybody, to not go through what I've gone through. If they can read about what I've gone through and learn from it, I win. Yeah. And I'm just going to tell one last kind of story. Yeah. I'm like really depressed, dark, dark depressed. And sitting at my house late at night, my kids are in. in the house all by myself, lonely.

The book had come out and I get a call. Now when you see the cell phone, you don't know the number and you're like, man, who hell is it? And I just picked up the phone. I'm like, good evening, Jim Cisco. And there was a voice on the other end. He goes, hey, Jim, I watched your podcast. I was with Mary Ann Petrie and Melanie Davis, the publisher.

We did a podcast. And they're like, hey, I got your contact information. I hope you don't mind me calling you. And I'm like, no, no. And you kind of brought my spirits. I'm like, yeah. He's like, hey, something to tell you. Like, I was in the Army and I was in Special Forces and I did three tours and I was in here and there.

He was in Blot in the worst part, I think. And he started telling me like about his time over there. It's like really dark. And he's like, hey, I just want to let you know something. And I'm like, yeah, what's up, man? He goes, I was suicidal. I was, you know, I had suicide ideation. I didn't really know how to deal with all this stuff.

And after I watched the podcast, I read your book. And he goes, brother, thank you. I now have purpose. I have meaning. If you can go through the stuff that you went through, I can do what I'm dealing with. And that man right there was probably, one of those life-changing events.

And that's why I started doing the podcast. That's why I started talking more about myself in my career. If I can help anybody, one person, it's a win. Yeah. It's a win for me. And I'm doing a lot of work on family advocacy, trying to reform the court system, trying to make sure that children are protected,

started a project for veteran suicide. So I'm all in. and this is what I'm doing. And you guys have a couple hundred thousand viewers. They can hear my message. It's a win for me. It's a win for you. And if there's anything I can do to help you guys, let me know.

Oh, same, man. Absolutely, same. We have one question. Do we have anything on Patreon? Oh, yeah. Do you want to ask that? Yeah, I'm sorry. I've been talking so much.

No, no, no, no. No, no. We have a couple questions. Yeah, we have one from Louis Vasquez. What kind of open source tools do you use to find and help people with mental health struggles? Awesome question. There is a phrase in Dari in Afghanistan, I learned. And it says, if you stand on the corner, the wind will blow and tell you.

So we use, and what you mean by that, people love to talk. People want to talk. And they will tell you that they are. are, you know, hurting or they're suicidal or have suicide ideations. But we don't listen as a society. And the VA is the worst tool in the world because all they do is they want to enroll you and medicate you and you're on a list. What open source tools are we use?

Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat. We're in Reddit. There's a Reddit group, you know, for Marines, for Navy, for Army. And the, it's the narratives that they're used. using that you just got to listen. When people say he lost the battle, he brought the war home with them. You look at the paradicity of their post,

if they're increasing, if the tone and inflection is changing, the simple things in cues, the pictures, the memes, the emojis, how are they talking? We can identify people who are moving in that direction, and interdict before they do commit those. Do you want to tell people what the name of the veteran organization is? Yeah, it's my company. It's called Enodo Global.

And Anoto is Latin. It means to solve or elucidate. And here's the terrible story. I was so driven to do this. And we used the methodology that I learned in Afghanistan and in data analytics to come up with this project, program, pilot project. I briefed the head of the VA.

I'm sitting with the head of the VA and looking across the table at her and saying, we can reduce veterans suicides by 30% in 24 months. And it's only cost $500,000 to start the pilot project. she was like okay this was great thank you for your time we really appreciate you i'll put you in touch with you know our project manager six months later i'm told by the project manager that they didn't have the funding and that would i have to reapply the next fiscal year i wrote the head of the

and i said in the seven months i did all the calculations we've lost over 318 soldiers airmen and sailors and this. We've lost this. We've done this. And your administration and your organization has spent over $75 million on X, Y, and Z and Z. And you can't have, you can tell me you don't have $500,000 for a pilot project. Right.

That's what gets to be upset. But so we created this whole project where we look at and listen to the social media discussions, what's happening. And then we find high risk individuals. and then we interdict. But we don't just send them to VA because the VA is not going to fix the problems. Right.

The VA is going to medicate them, enroll them, get them therapy. What we do is we identify what the problem is of that individual. Is it financial? Is it marital? Is it divorce? Is it dependency?

Is it PTSD? Is it TBI? And then direct them to the organization that can best serve them with the resources that they have that are tailored. And I hate the whole veteran suicide bullshit, whereas 22 a day equine for veterans, let's go talk about this.

That's just mowing the lawn to kill the weeds. Yeah. Doesn't kill the weeds. Yeah. What's the other one, D? The other questions for V, what are the best skills to practice and learn for a career in intelligence?

Wow. Honestly, I have an intern at my company, David Isaacs, and he is a brilliant kid, and he wants to be in the community. He wants to be in the entire community. And he will be successful if he gets in. And the reason why, and here's why the skill sets are important. Analytical thinking, number one, critical thinking. It's most important that you are able to look at things analytically. The second thing is to be a critic.

In other words, you'll get too many people in the intelligence community who've done 10 years here, 20 years here. I know this, I know that. I was working in Latin America. Another project thing

and I'm working with a CIA case officer Aronid Copsucker. And he says to me, and I go down there, and I'm like, just trying to get the label and then he's like, let me tell you about this and let me tell you about that. I've been running, I've been running people, sources here for 20 years. I know these people like the back of my hand.

What are you going to do and come in here? What are you going to tell me? And I said, you've been here 20 years? You heard me. You've been running sources? Yeah. You know the people? like your back of your hand?

Yeah. Well, why is it still fucked up? And all the guys around him started laughing. Like, oh, man. So the point is, don't become so full of yourself and don't rely upon anybody else's opinions and our ideas or beliefs like that DIA guy

who didn't know shit about President Clark's eye. Think critically, be analytical, be technically proficient, but always question you. Why? If you ask why all the time, you're going to uncover things that no one else does. People will tell you stuff, hey, you know what? Yeah, it's happened because of this. Just go, why? It's probably my biggest piece of advice. And then one question from here. Corbyn, I don't know where you're coming from, brother. But thank you very much. Could the most recent hearings on the UAP program

be related to the latest Department of Defense fiscal audit. Thanks for great stories. I have no idea. I am so far removed from the intelligence community and the administration. I'll tell you what, here's a contentious thing. The sect death appointment. Everybody's like, oh my God, why, how did he get appointed? What's he going to do?

I think it's a good move. And here's why. you're bringing in someone from outside the culture. Right. He can introduce fresh ideas, fresh perspectives. He can introduce and question why. I think the current sect death, the old second, is a total piece of shit. I have no respect for a lot of the senior officers within the military right now.

They're sellouts. They're politicians. and I would love to be in the administration. I would love it. It would be, you know, go back to OD&I. Lieutenant Commander, Cisco retired, is the, you know, is the director of the office director of national intelligence. I'll tell you what, people would be shitting themselves

because they know that I know the inside skinny at the NSA, at the CIA. at DIA, at NGA, and they would be very scared. I would eliminate probably 40% of the CIA's budget because it's just crap. I would eliminate the redundancy in DIA with NJIC and NS. 99% of NSA's collection never gets analyzed. I mean, it's ridiculous. But anyway, sorry to digress. No, that's great.

No, we appreciate it. So check out Enodo Global.com. That's E-N-O-D-O-Global.com. Check out Jim's book, War Journal. It's the War Journal, A Young Marines Discovery of Critical Life Lessons from Desert Storm. There's a couple war journal books out there. But once again, the book is about life.

The book is about lessons. The book is not about combat. You want to read about combat, go talk to Jocko or David Goggins or any of the other 5,000 soft guys who are like, yeah, I ran four, looking down the bell. Yeah. So, Jim, thank you so much for your time. We deeply, deeply appreciate you sharing a Friday night with us.

Hey, there was no place that I would rather be. Honestly, I was happy to wear my Navy shirt, happy to be the first Naval Intelligence Officer on your podcast and I hope your fans like it I hope your audience like it and I hope you like it. We like it a lot.

Dee, do you know who we have on next week? Yep, next Friday we have Craig Jorgensen, former Lerp Vietnam, so that should be good. Former Vietnam Lerp, perfect. Guys, don't forget to go to our Patreon. Patreon.com slash the team house the best way to support

or you can buy a bed if you want from Ghostbed. The link is in the description Or even a pillow. Their pillows are nice too. Pillars are banging. Also, one more thing. Eyeson has its own YouTube channel. The link is in the description.

Check it out. We have Andy Milburn, Jason Lyons, Mick Mulroy every week. So check it out. We talk more like topical geopolitical political stuff. So the link is in the description as long as a Patreon. All the links for Jim are in the page are in the link.

Are in the description. Like and subscribe to the YouTube channel, please. I am liking and subscribing. I already have. And you also have a YouTube channel, The War Journal, correct? Yep, the War Journal. It's the only platform I'm on

and I just, I do it for my audience and for people. And like I said, I don't want to be a content creator. I don't want to compete with you guys. There's no company. There's plenty of space in this world for everybody. Exactly. And I'll do everything I can to support you guys.

Yeah, same here. out the War Journal podcast or YouTube streaming channel also. All right everybody, thank you very much. Have a great night. Thank you guys. Thank you, man. All right.