The Team House - Inside the SAS w/ SAS Operator Jay Morton

Episode Date: August 1, 2026

Jay Morton discusses his career in the British Parachute Regiment and the Special Air Service (SAS), including deployments to Afghanistan, the challenges of SAS selection, and the realities of life in one of the world's premier special operations units. He also reflects on his transition to civilian life, climbing Mount Everest, and the lessons he's carried with him since leaving the military.https://www.instagram.com/jay__morton/?hl=enhttps://www.deltathreeoscar.com/Today's Sponsors:GhostBed ⬇️https://www.ghostbed.com/houseFOR 10% off! Blue Chew ⬇️https://bluechew.com/Get 1 month free when you buy 2 of BlueChew Gold with code "HOUSECALL"For ad free video and audio and access to live streams and Eyes On Geopolitics...JOIN OUR PATREON! https://www.patreon.com/c/TheTeamHouseTo help support the show and for all bonus content including:-live shows and asking guest questions -ad free audio and video-early access to shows-Access to ALL bonus segments with our guestsSubscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouseSupport the show here:⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse___________________________________________________ORDER JACK'S NEW BOOK "THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN" ⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/803651/the-most-dangerous-man-by-jack-murphy/paperback/Subscribe to the new EYES ON podcast here:⬇️https://www.youtube.com/@EyesOnGeopoliticsPod/featured__________________________________Jack Murphy's book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" ⬇️https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/——————————————————————Or make a one time donation at: ⬇️https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouseSocial Media: ⬇️The Team House Instagram:https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_linkThe Team House Twitter:https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePodJack’s Instagram:https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_linkJack’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21Team House Discord: ⬇️https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6"Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio"00:00 - Start01:32 - Why He Joined the British Parachute Regiment05:00 - Inside British Paratrooper Selection10:20 - First Deployment to Afghanistan14:17 - First Major Firefight17:42 - Surviving Sangin Valley22:39 - How Combat Changes You25:19 - Coming Home from War31:01 - The Hidden Cost of Special Operations35:04 - Deciding to Attempt SAS Selection37:25 - The Brutal SAS Selection Process44:01 - Breaking His Back During Selection48:47 - Escape & Evasion & Interrogation52:14 - Becoming an SAS Operator59:12 - Life Inside the SAS1:01:24 - Hunting Taliban IED Networks1:04:13 - HALO Jumps into Afghanistan1:10:48 - Hunting High-Value Targets1:13:01 - Was the Afghanistan War Worth It?1:17:55 - Covert Deployments Around the World1:24:30 - Leaving the SAS Behind1:32:01 - Building a New Life After the Military1:37:43 - Climbing Mount Everest1:43:43 - The World's Greatest MountainsBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the team house. I'm Jack Murphy here with today's guest, Jay Morton, Jay served in the British Parachute Regiment and then in the Special Air Service, multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. And today he's an ambassador for Delta 3 Oscar, which we'll get into. Jay, thank you for joining us on the show today. Awesome. Thank you for having me, Jack. Whereabouts in the world are you? We're in Brooklyn. Amazing. I've never been to New York. to Brooklyn's New York, right?

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, come visit, man. Be happy to have you here. Yeah, I love the U.S. I was recently out in Montana in Whitefish. Oh, yeah, it's beautiful out there. Yeah, San Diego, California.

I was there for the NASCAR race and then spent some time in Laguna Beach, but I'm going back out in August. So, yeah, I'm potentially going to, stay over there for the three months on my esther during winter because our winters are pretty rainy and wet over here in the UK. Well, it looks pretty nice where you are now. Oh, it's beautiful. We're midsummer and I live in a place called Bournemouth, which is on the coast. So my apartment's pretty much opposite the beach, which is good stuff. That's great. So Jay, I guess we'll start at the beginning, right? I usually ask our guests what their origin story is. If you tell us a little bit about

what your upbringing was like. Yeah, of course. So British born, I grew up in a town called Preston, which if anyone knows their football team, Manchester United, it's probably about an hour north from Manchester United. Just a small working class city. Grew up with normal parents, mother and father, older brother, and went to school, love playing sport, hated school. So there was, I think I'd always wanted to go into the military at some stage. I wanted to join the Royal Marines growing up or before that I wanted to be a fireman, I think, as a kid full of testosterone. I was always driven or drawn to kind of dangerous jobs.

and yeah, at the time there was a mate of mine at school that we were like two of the fittest guys in school and we were always kind of competing and battling in sports and he actually joined the Paras Street Regiment when he left and went and joined three Paro, which is one of the battalions, and he'd come back on leave and always tell me these stories about what he was up to and it was mainly around shooting guns and going out and getting pissed with the boy

but weirdly you're kind of drawn to that and I think looking back retrospectively it's it's more about the teamwork and the camaraderieship and being part of a you know a shared purpose and a shared goal that you're more drawn to but as an 18 year old 19 year old lad hearing stories about fighting in the town and like getting pissed and all that kind of stuff is what it's kind of masked as So yeah, I ended up joining the parachute regiment age 19, which was a massive shock to the system. It was probably the first time I've been away from my hometown and traveled and went to live in a different place in the UK and they're based in Essex in Colchester. And yeah, shortly after, obviously, we deployed to, it was kind of the back end of the Second Gulf War. And we deployed out to Iraq for three months on a short deployment.

And it was the back end of that tour that obviously you guys over across the pond were talking about going over into Afghanistan. And we literally came back from that short deployment. We all got pulled into a tent just before we flew back and got told that the US are looking at going into Afghanistan. and there's a potential that our battle group and battalion were going to be the first ones to go in in 2006. And we flew back, had a short period of leave, and then I think we had, you know, three or four weeks leave. We got pulled back in, flown out to a man for a six-week training package, had like a couple of weeks leave and then deployed out to Afghanistan. And that kind of kicked off the Afghanistan deployment specifically for the UK and for you guys as well.

well. Just to back up a little bit, what was the sort of selection process like to get into the paris? Yeah, so we run a selection process. It's a, in total, the training block is six months long. So we call that basic training. I don't know what you guys call it. And so yeah, it's a six month long period to take you from being a civilian, you know, an 18-year-old scrote all the way to be in a, well, to join in a professional soldier in unit, whether you can call yourself a professional soldier at the end of six months is debatable. And yeah, I mean, the first six weeks, it's pretty much shock of capture, shave your head, give you a set uniform that you have to wear every day, even.

when you're not in military uniform, when you're out of military uniform, it's a set of like blue Ron Hill joggers, so the kind of leggings that runners used to wear in like the 70s and a maroon jumper. And then the kind of selection process for it is called P Company. So that's a week-long selection process, and it's pass or fail. And it consists of a series of,

tests. So we've got the 10-mile which is done. I think it's one hour and 50. I'm not quite sure. We have a 20-mileer. We have a steeple chase, a log race and a stretcher race. And there's other things like the Trinasium which is an assault course. And yeah, you're not allowed to fail or come off one of those. And to be honest, being 19 years old, it was pretty fucking hard. I played amateur rugby growing up. I played rugby league. I played football. I played volleyball. And kind of nothing prepares you for military basic training and specifically P-company. You know, I wouldn't class myself as being one of the fittest people there. I definitely wasn't the weakest. I think personally I have like an ability to just be able to hang on and not be the person that

comes in first every time but never fall off anything. And I think as a soldier in the parachute regiment, we're kind of looking for that. Those people that not only can do 10 miles or 20 miles, but those people that can continuously push for 40, 50 miles, you know, with limited amount of sleep, water, food, all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, so I got through first time and, but yeah, it was pretty hard. And for our American listeners, if you could explain a little bit about the history of the British Paris and sort of what their mission is, how it differs from some of the other units like the Royal Marines. Yeah, so our power is the equivalent of your airborne.

And I'll get the dates completely wrong, but we were formed in World War II. I'm going to say 1942, 1944, but I'll probably get that completely wrong. And, yeah, we were formed as an airborne unit that was designed to be dropped behind enemy lines in World War II and cause absolute havoc. So yeah, you know, the kind of missions that were done back then,

we did just that, you know, because an infantry unit or a mechanised unit could be seen coming from so far out in terms of ground sign and movement and all that kind of stuff, they could be picked up by aircraft. An airborne unit was simply designed to just drop either behind enemy lines or close to and just go straight. into combat.

Obviously, it's not used as frequently now, but I think the kind of ethos of the parachute regiment is still there in terms of we train to be able to deliver the fight at any moment's time. So even though we're not getting dropped behind enemy lines, we still carry that tenacity as a fighting unit into anything that we do. Hence why, you know, we were the first unit

that got picked guard in 2020. Afghanistan in 2006. Yeah, I will also get the dates and names completely wrong. But as I recall, our American Airborne got our berets from you guys. It was during World War II. And I think it was the British commander's wife, who was a poet, thought the boys would look very sharp wearing maroon berets. And so we got the maroon beret from you guys.

Yeah, awesome. Yeah, you guys also have it as well. I noticed. Yep, yep. And so fast forward a little bit back to that first deployment to Afghanistan. You said it was 2006? Correct, 2006. And so we talk about like the unit carrying that tenacity with it in the combat.

What was that mission set and where were you guys deployed to in Afghanistan? Yeah, I mean, initially Afghanistan was looked at from, a peacekeeping operation and I don't think anyone knew that Afghanistan was going to turn into what it turned into and specifically pre-deployment I was a private soldier

and you know 20 years old and you didn't really have an idea of strategic position and of why we were going in you know from my eyes it looked like you guys were going in for whatever reasons and we were just backing you up as as allies across the pond and initially when we deployed it was there was obviously no fighting we so the UK built a huge military base called Bastion so the US main

one was Kandahar Airfield and then we built one called Bastion at the time Bastian hadn't been complete. It was still under construction. And we were living in those Green Army 6 by 9 or whatever they're called tents, the canvas ones that have been it. GP medians? Pretty much since 1942.

We were living in those sleeping on camp cots, eating 10-man rations. There weren't established kitchens. And they were constructing this camp bastion. And I remember the first kind of week we were out there. We were just going out for some acclimatization runs because the heat was

we were out there in the summer so the heat was, you know, 40, 50 degrees. But I always remember there was this fine dust everywhere and almost like cement and we'd be out on runs just running through this cement dust whilst these diggers

were like building walls and HESCO basking walls and yeah, we were just inhaling it like dumb 20 year olds but yeah it was it was soft posture and we'd we actually took two CH 47s into a town called Greshk and landed just outside and we put a patrolling through the town and nothing happened it was reasonably pleasant and friendly I actually remember there was an old man that was selling ice cream on the side of the street

and he actually made me a Mr. Whippy and I was stood on one knee with my GPMG facing all arcs, making sure the bad guys didn't come. And he just walked up to me and passed me this ice cream. I was like, I was like to Lads. You think I should eat this? Or is this like poisoned or what? And I ate it in the end. But yeah, I mean, that goes back to Afghanistan.

You know, it's like I think deep down probably, you know, regardless of what happens there, I'm sure they're a friendly, welcoming group of people with a solid culture. I mean, they're stone women as well, but I'm sure there's other good sides of their culture. And then, yeah, we were in Gresh for a week or two weeks, and then we got deployed.

In fact, our role was CQ, not CQB, QRF, so quick reaction force. Whilst we were in the camp, and at this stage we'd move to proper accommodation, I think, no, we hadn't, We're still in the tent. And our patrols unit were out. So our kind of brigade or our battalion reccy force were out in vehicles.

The old school Wimix, so the old Land Rover defenders that had a 50-caller, a GPMG on the back and a GPMG on the front. And they'd been hitting a contact. And one of the vehicles had been hit by an RPG and they'd extracted from the vehicle and were seeking cover somewhere. where and they put a call out to the quick reaction force and it was myself and my company, so a company, we got tasked for the job, jumped on 2CH-47 lifters and landed in the middle of this farmer's field in Nowzad and this is probably about three weeks into being in theatre and we all ran off the back of this heli and ran towards this wall and I literally remember as the helis were lifting, you could hear the crack and thump of rounds flying over our head.

And obviously that got louder as the heli lifted. And I remember just looking to the lads to the left and right. I mean, we all just burst out in laughter with that kind of, you know, that laughing in the face of adversity kind of thing. We had no intention or idea that this operation was going to go noisy, let alone Afghanistan was going to go noisy. and yeah that turned into probably a seven to nine hour contact of us trying to fight forward to get to this Wimick at one stage one of the one of the sections in my platoon went left flanking on a position on a compound and I always remember Prig Paul was the the section commander and he literally turned around to his team and went if you've got wife or

kids stay here the rest of you come with me and he took the guys left flank in and yeah they they obviously went around engaged in with the threat where we're needed and yeah it was it was an interesting one it was a long day there was a lot of blood sweat and tears and uh we flew back in and and that was pretty much it. That kind of launched into that Afghanistan 2006 conflict of a lot of those style fire fights.

You know, it was pre-IED era, so it was pretty much going out and just getting into scraps every day. This is like one of those firefights with the Taliban are just sort of like trying to encircle you going around hedgerows and things like that and sporadic fire all day. You'll know yourself, Jack. It's like

you know 95% of the time you don't even see the enemy you just hear him um you very rarely see them i i'd imagine it's the same as if an enemy force came from a different country to my hometown it's like i know all the ins and outs the nucks and crannies the the the ditches the back alleys you know everything you're not you're not trying to close with and kill these people that are in your town it's like you're just trying to get them out right right guys if you're lady or your fella or that person that sends you an eggplant emoji at 2 a.m. is ready for better sex than you should be too. That's where Blue Chew comes in.

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after that we went to Sangin Valley. And I mean, for anyone listening that deployed and went to Sangyan Valley, we landed to, so the Fob Jackson, which was actually one of our boys, Damien Jackson, we'd actually been tasked to go out to the governor's building to support the governor because he was getting death threats from the Taliban, I seem to remember, about him, sexually abusing kids.

Probably true, but at that time you obviously you have to support the government. So we went out and set up shop in the governor's house, which is now, obviously

not now, but turned into Fogg Jackson. And at the time it was this building and next to it was this orchard with this other kind of weird building and we were there. for about three or four days and there was a river that went down the middle of it and we used to wash in the river and um we put like positions all around the area so we had 360 degree uh defense

and um yeah i always remember kind of probably about four or five days into it so we were actually over a while we were you and afghanistan at the same time uh i was there 2004 into 2005 that winter. Yeah, I mean, there were wild times, weren't they? I'm like jogging the memory. It's surreal. Yeah, we were, we dug like a shell scrape in this orchard, and our position just looked onto a wall, and it was like a, I guess, six foot wall, maybe a little bit less, you know, like the thick mud walls. And I always remember, because the icon chatter and the, the, the, the, the J2 would suggest that they were going to attack from this, this wall. one night and they said they were just going to flood the place with fighters and send them over this

send them over this six foot wall and like all night we were literally probably 15 meters away from this wall maybe less and we just sat in this shell scrapes staring at this wall like eyes eyes on store like literally matchsticks in our eyes just I remember like a couple of the lads smoked cigarettes and like I was like give me one of those cigarettes I need to I need to smoke none of us slept the whole night thinking that we were just going to get flooded with Taliban. But nothing happened, but probably around four or five days into it. We built the positions up a little bit more, and we'd ran out of sandbags to build the positions up. So we were building them up with big cardboard boxes and just filling it with

dirt and dust and hoping that that would catch around. And I was actually on top of this rooftop looking out onto, if anyone's been there that's listening. So it was, trying to think where it was, it kind of looked, so it was, I'm trying to remember the Cardinal. I don't think I can. I think it's to the south of the west, kind of looked away from the bazaar and the town area and into kind of the bush. And I was on the side that was on the opposite side to the Governor's building with the river running down it. And I always remember this car drove past and it had like three or four heavies in it and they had the windows, down and they were just staring up at this position.

And I just remember thinking that's, that's not, you know, they're not friendly. And probably about an hour later, we literally got hit 360 degrees like all around the fob. Machine gun, AK, RPG,

wombat shells. And that kind of, that was it then. It kind of kicked off in Sanging and we pretty much stayed in in Sanging for the duration of the six-month tour that we did. And yeah, I mean, there's a million stories to come out of just that one location,

I'm sure, for a lot of people that served in Sang and listening. It was a hellhole and you would go out most days, and most days you'd end up in a scrap and you'd be calling A-10s, you know, your guys A-10s, which were phenomenal. and we had Apache helicopters from the UK and from the US as well, which were also a godsend, if you heard that thing in the sky, you were pretty much free to roam wherever you wanted to go, but as soon as he went off station, just all hell broke loose.

But yeah, it was an interesting time being 20 years old. I turned 21 over there. And yeah, it was, yeah, I mean, we could probably talk on podcasts just about being insane enough and being honest, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's one of those, sounds like one of those formative experiences, you were also learning your job as you went, you know, like actually becoming a professional soldier, I think.

Yeah, 100%. It's becoming a man as well, right? Yeah. You cross that path of boy to manhood. And specifically, yeah, becoming a professional soldier, like you said, you get into to prove yourself in combat, whether you like that or not, it's the arena that you chose to show up in. And also, I always look back at it with good memories, I think.

You learn a lot in those type of situations. You develop a lot. It's a bigger growth than any state university would get you. And it also, it's something that you'll never take away, you know, that I think as men, personally, and I don't know what your views are on this, but I think as men were, we've been at war since the moment that we've walked out of caves. I think it's so inherent for us. And we can imagine all we want that we're going to live in this super peaceful world,

but we can see by modern press that that's just, that's never going to happen. It's a dream to think that the human race is going to get on with each other. So it's like for you to go out and actually do that as a man, I think there's something in that that's quite special. Yeah, it's also crossing over that threshold where you're doing something now that could get you killed. And also, if you don't do your job, you could get somebody else killed. And I think that tends to mature people very quickly. Yeah, 100%.

And actually, like, how amazing it is it that you've worked in a team that does that? That you have to, you know, whether you're a medic, whether you're a shooter, or whatever, it's like you've been part of an integral team and a key part of that small team that, you know, if something doesn't go right or if you make a mistake, not only may you die, the consequences are that real that not only you may you die, but someone else may die. And that person could be a father, that person could be a husband or whatever it's, with those real consequences become kind of, and those real responsibility comes a lot. lot of like self-growth and self-actualization.

And what was it like coming off of that deployment and redeploying back home? So we, I mean, we'd gone to Cyprus for a period of decompression. And so it was three days decompression. They fueled it with alcohol, which... Not a great idea. Yeah. There's a good thing and a bad thing because we got to decompress, but it's actually a funny story because, so literally I think the first night you get there, you get, they stick a barbecue on for you. And it was like unlimited booze. They make this barbecues in its day. And it was the first one that the British Army had done. So I think they just thought that booze was the answer. Everyone got absolutely battered. And I remember we'd had the barbecue, desserts were out. And there'd been like a couple of like drinks,

so nothing heavy and like a couple of cans had flown over. Some people got hit in the face. I remember being stood at the dessert section, helping myself to an army-issued blackcurrant cheesecake. And I just remember turning around and there was like fucking cans flying, drinks flying, food flying like left and i was like where the fuck has this come from i remember just grabbing like handfuls of dessert and like launched it into the crowd and the next minute i'm picking dessert

and throwing it and the next minute people are grabbing tables and chairs and like it was absolute carnage like literally erupted i remember it being on it was on youtube in the early days and like one of the lads is like naked wrapped around with like the st george's flag there's union jacks everywhere and it was fucking carnage mate and like the med center where the doctor was the doctor was also hammered there was a cue of about 11 blokes outside with my eyes hanging off and like broken noses teeth hanging out it was so um yeah i think we fully got to decompress and the next day they just put like water sports on and um But, yeah, I mean, like to get to the serious point of coming back from a theatre like that.

I mean, personally, like I, I mean, I felt fine. I mean, I was probably, you know, there was definitely, I mean, PTSD and stuff like that was never spoken about back then, even kind of exposure to trauma and what that can do. And I, you know, personally for me, you know, I was. I didn't suffer with it coming back from that deployment. But I always remember the guys got back into Colchester. And I actually had a girlfriend at the time, so I jumped on a train and went straight back to see her. And the lad stayed in the block.

I don't know if you call it the block, but the army camp and obviously got on the booze again. And I spoke to them the next day, and literally every window in the block got smashed. And like you talk about, you know, like, equally the next day that the sergeant major just said, lads, as long as you replace all the windows, nothing will be said. Like, don't stress it. Because equally, I think there's a, there's a, there's a, what's the word? there's a way that our body processes what we've just been through and done and whether that's anger, aggression, whether that's, and to do that with your whole team in that kind of setting, whether it's

throwing cans at each other or cake or like smashing windows, I think there's a process that your body goes through to release or whatever it is that it's storing. And that's how it came out. Now obviously you see the obvious and you probably saw this as well Jack. You know, lads go straight on self-destruct mode and they stay on the piss, the whole leave and get into fights and all that kind of stuff. And in fact, on the two weeks off that we got from the six-month deployment in the middle of it, I'd actually come back and ended up getting arrested whilst I was, I was. drunk just for being a complete idiot if I'm being honest but I think there's this like whether it's an anger inside or like we've been doing this and do you know what I mean it's like

there's a there's a feeling inside that unless you've kind of experienced that level of combat you'll never kind of be able to relate to but we'd come back and ended up again alcohol fueled but um yeah just We were shouting and all sorts of stuff, and my friend got like CS gassed in the face, and he just got thrown in the cell for a night. But yeah, apart from that, like, everything was great. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to turn it off, isn't it? I mean, you're going 100 miles an hour, and then suddenly you're back home. You're in the UK in this case.

And it sounds like you probably hadn't gone into, like, even a training cycle yet. You're just sort of, like, refitting, getting ready for the next thing. And so the guys are sitting in the barracks, bored out of their minds, and yeah, they get into the booze, and this is what ends up happening. Yeah, it's completely that. And it's, you know, I've had times where I've struggled in the past, war so during my special forces career coming back off operations. And you can logically, when you're out of it, you can logically look at it and see what happened. Right. It was a very kinetic time.

Working all hours, your body's stressed anyway because you work in night shifts. But then, you know, the job that we were doing, we were going out on day operations and night operations. Plus we had to provide training for the Afghan force that we were training. And it was just a busy kinetic period. I didn't get any decompression. I literally told that I was going to fly back on a C-17 and be back in the UK within 24 hours. And I went from being on the ground, being on a job,

doing the handover to the next squadron, handing my weapon systems in, jumping on a plane and being back in the UK within 24 hours. And that's where I struggled. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My body, brain, nervous system, whatever you want to call, it was just like what the fuck is going on here. like you're on a train, like, what is going on.

But again, you know, you don't realize when you're in it because the education's not there. The awareness wasn't there. We didn't really know what it was. So you kind of just had to live with it. Right. And for me, it was drinking, you know, albeit not a crazy amount.

I mean, we all used to drink when we were younger. but it'd be the only thing that made me feel normal again. Within a very short period of time, it kind of dissipated within two weeks. But for those two weeks, the feeling that I had inside was like this. I don't know, it's like an energy here or like a, you know, a feeling here and it was kind of hard

to like settle back into normal life, but the only thing that could kind of normalize that was just drinking, so I just drank. And then I just noticed the feeling lift and myself start to feel normal, whatever you want to class as normal. And in two weeks, I felt just like I usually do anyway. If upgrading your full sleep setup has been on the list for a while, Ghostbed's Fourth of July sale is the time to actually do it.

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That's ghostbed.com slash house promo code house. Some exclusions apply. See site for details. So you're back from deployment. Did you deploy again with the Paris or like when did the SAS start to come into your thought process? So deployed again in 2008 back out to Afghanistan. It was a quieter deployment.

The main battle group was two paris, so the second battalion of the parachute regiment. And they kind of took the brunt of the main kind of fighting battalion within that operation. Ourselves, we were based out of CAF, we just provided QRF and we did some of the kind of jobs. It was quite an interesting, quite an interesting operation, but again, not as kinetic as the one that we had in 2006. And then it was towards the back end of that 2008 operation when I started thinking about joining the Special Forces and you always get a few members that have been on selection and failed and found their way back to the...

to the battalion and would always talk about the stories about being on selection and what it's like. And if I'm being honest, I was around 23 years old. I thought I was too young, too inexperienced to go on selection. The average age was like 26, 27. And it was a platoon sergeant that I had at the time called Dan Jarvie, who was this Scottish jock from Dundee, who was hard as woodbush. becker's lips and yeah just an excellent man and an amazing soldier who was our platoon sergeant and I was his driver in the back end of that 2008 tour and he just kept saying you know

Jay going selection and I just you know would say excuses like too young and maybe I'll go and join the brigade Recky Force and do that for some time and then then go on selection and you just kept saying just go on selection go on selection and um so I applied to go on selection when I came back from that deployment and then yeah it was 2009 in summer when uh when I went on special forces selection so 24 years 24 years old and yeah that's six month So a six-month selection period and, yeah, broken into certain phases. So the hills phase would be the navigational testing phase, carrying big packs over, you know, retraining in the Welsh mountains. So it'd be over the Welsh mountains, big packs navigating through,

you know, 20, 30 kilometres of ground per day. And then we go out to the jungles of Brunei and train out there for six. weeks where we deploy for fully tactical for four weeks and that's considered the pinnacle of special forces selection where if you get the pass or the fail from that to fail post jungle training or jungle phase is is pretty an anomaly once you pretty much get the tick in the box for the jungle you're pretty much in albeit you're not a badged SF operator at that time The jungle is where you guys really like focus on the patrolling skills, right? And those like troop leading procedures and that sort of thing. Yeah, I mean, if you look at areas in the world that are difficult to operate, you've got the Arctic and the jungle is two of the most difficult places to operate as a soldier.

If we just take the jungle, you know, simply just live in or operating or living just doing the basics is pretty difficult. You've got 100% humidity and, you know, 30, 40 degree heat on a daily. You're wearing full kit, full belt kit with, you know, live, live ammo scales of, you know, yourself six mags of bandalier. plus, you know, water, you know, shovels, mess tins, five days rations. Think of the amount of water that you need to drink in a day. You carry in probably around seven litres of water, that's seven kilograms. Or 16 pounds if you're in the US of water. And then all your patrol kit, so all your sleep,

your sleeping bags, especially patrol kit. We had a radio which was just a massive block of wood, which was heavy and didn't actually transceive or transmit. So yeah, I mean, it's pretty difficult to do anything. I mean, you take navigation through the jungle. All the maps were produced 30 years ago, if that, produced on, you know, on a very basic thought process of what the ground looks like underneath the canopy. So it's a difficult thing to navigate through the jungle. You're kind of navigating

on ridge lines only. And, you know, if you think the jungle's flat, think again, it's very, very kind of contoured. So you've got to stick to the ridge lines because it's the only thing that doesn't have a million trees and wildlife and fauna and flora, flora and for, whatever the word is, on it. And then you're navigating on a map that's 30 years old with all that kit. So it's difficult, plus the fact that it's fully tactical from the moment that you go in the jungle to the moment that you leave. So if you want to go for a piss, you're going with a buddy buddy. If you want to go to the toilet, if you want to go and wash or fill your water bottle up, it's buddy buddy buddy. if you cook in one of your cooks,

the other stands there with his weapon making sure you don't get attacked. And yeah, it's difficult. They're looking for if you've got what you've, you know, if you've got the skills and the resilience and the mindset and if your face fits within a special forces fighting squadron. or a team.

And you were tested on general soldiering, live firing, kind of receiving missions and carrying them out. And yeah, it's tough, but I actually enjoyed the jungle. It was, it was, I felt like it was just a good place to showcase. soldiering skills and I felt like I think away from all the noise of you know and it's like Jack in a normal Green Army unit there's a lot of noise of wanting to go on the piss like

girls or training or whatever it is and you know without all that noise and all you had to worry about every day was you your buddies eating drinking making sure your weapons weapons clean, making sure your prang was clean, showing up and doing the best that you can do every day. It's like when you simplify it to that, it's take all the noise of modern day life out. It's, I don't know about you, I tend to thrive in that. Yeah, this was what you signed up for, really. Yeah, completely. To be a professional soldier and to showcase what you can do and show if you're capable of being the special forces was, yeah, it was fun.

And then what were the additional phases that come after the jungle? Yeah, so straight after that, you come back and you get told whether your pass or fail. And the majority of the people, so we start with around 150 applicants at the start of selection, Hills phase might get rid of half, if not 70% of those. So on a healthy selection, you want to be going into the jungle with around 50 applicants. Sometimes it could be 30. Just depends on what that year's been like. So you come out of the jungle and you've probably got anything from 10 to 20 applicants.

So huge attrition rates. And then you go into kind of the continuation phases of it. So there's a period called surveillance and reconnaissance, which is you kind of traditional. surveillance and reconnaissance so observation posts so bush hides subsurface observation posts I think that lasts for about three weeks that was probably a week of training and then or a week and a half of training and then a deployment task where you break down into teams and go and put a subsurface or a bush hide in somewhere and actually at the time I'd at the back end of the

the jungle phase. Literally on the final attack, I'd picked up the heaviest bloke that was on selection, an officer that went to serving the SBS, an ex-rugby player. He was a big old boy with a fat head. And he'd gone down as a role-play casualty on the final attack right next to me.

So obviously I dropped everything, not dropped everything, but ran straight towards him, grabbed him and proceeded to throw him onto my back and at which point my back popped. And, you know, having just spent five and a half, six weeks in the jungle carrying a massive Bergen, your back kind of arches like this as opposed to like that. And yeah, my back popped and damaged a disc

and meant that, you know, that stupidity moment of being a 24-year-old kind of thirsty parachute regiment soldier wanting to be in the special forces. I just disregarded any. The fact I was in severe pain and just cracked on, not wanting to come off and wanted to complete selection with the lads that I was on it and not wanted to come off and go into medical rehab and come back on selection again. So I gritted my teeth and cracked on, which meant that surveillance of reconnaissance with a full-size O.P. Bergen with all your chicken wire and tools and camera kit, you know, huge 200 or 600 lenses, the big bird spotting ones and all that kit meant that I had a

bigger rucksack for surveillance of reconnaissance than I did in the jungle. Plus the fact that it was in Hereford and it was probably around October. overtime and pissing down with rain so that trying to insert into a farmer's field to put a bush hide or a subsurface OP with all that kind of kit. You're slipping all over the place and probably causing you back more damage than good. And actually we'd spent the whole night trying to get into this position and everyone wants to do a bush hide because obviously with a bush hide all you do is you go into a big thick bush, you cut it out and create an observation poster and an op in the bush. wants to dig a subsurface op because it takes all night to dig a massive hole and you live in it for the

rest of the week and uh the sun came up in the morning we thought we had this amazing bush-eyed and uh one of the instructors we call him directing staff um he was uh he was a character and uh he stood over us and he's just like what the fuck is this and uh he looked around and it was like we're all soaking where we've all got all this camera equipment out and we're literally just led in a load of like nettles and thorns. So he kind of gives us the, give us the day and daylight to dig a subsurface OP. So we dug this probably two foot by five foot hole in the ground, went down probably a metre cammed it up and lived in it for the rest of the week, seven days.

And we had two guys observing the objective, which was an old farm building. We had one guy on rest or cooking and then one guy on rear century. And needless to say that for the majority of the time, most of us were asleep. It kind of worked in our favour because it kept the elements off as,

it was pretty warm. But yeah, so you do surveillance and reconnaissance, and then you do counterterrorism. So we train in, you know, CQB and global domestic counterterrorism. That's, I think, four weeks. And then escaping evasion, so resistance to interrogation,

which is what it's called now or sea, where you go on the run for a week, you get 24 hours of food, so 24-hour rations, limited kit and equipment, limited navigational aids, and you have to get through a series of checkpoints until you reach the final checkpoint, at which point you are taken captive and interrogated for 36 hours. And I think at that point, you know, there's nothing really. that they can throw at you that's going to pull you off selection. So you're kind of still trying to do the best you can,

but your heads in it and albeit 36 hours of interrogation sounds pretty hellish. At that point, you're getting through it and surviving it. And, you know, if anyone's done any kind of mock interrogation serials, you just got to ask for food and ask for warm clothes and ask for new shoes and pray that they don't beat you up and ask for coffee and stuff. And the more you ask for, the more you get. So, yeah, so obviously you're pretty, pretty tired and knackered by the end of that.

And interrogation, if anyone doesn't know, you're either in a stress position or being interrogated for that 36 hours. So standard two stress positions, everyone probably knows them, is stood leaning against a wall or sat cross-legged with your hands above your hands on your head. So either you're doing that with, you know, some cultural music in the background being played or specific to whatever theatre you're operating in or you're having coffee thrown in your face or being asked where your parents live. So it was good to get that one out of the way and get some sleep.

the final phase is parachuting, so just hay-ho parachuting to special forces standard. And at that level, you kind of come back, and we'd done our parachuting out in the state, so we went over to California and trained at an airbase called El Centro. And yeah, you come back from that, and pretty much you've got a week in camp just doing regular stuff. and you have a badging day parade, which is at the clock tower, you get your sandy-coloured beret and your blue stable belt, you take the picture, and then the next day you turn up at the squadron as a new new blade.

And then you kind of realise that selection was nothing, and for the last six weeks you thought you were an SAS soldier and you're at the bottom of the food chain and you go and pick up the bacon butties and the tea earns in the morning and do all the shit jobs as any new bloke does. What was it like being a new guy showing up at your squadron? What were some of the other guys like that you were working with?

It's interesting because my troop was at the time a little bit older, so there's some guys in the late 30s. And there was one guy that, had come up two years before me, and then before that was probably about four or five years. So it was a senior, senior team. And if I'm being honest, no one really gives a fuck, as in everyone's just cracking on doing what they need to do.

No one stops and people will be like, oh, you're right, mate, I'm whoever. But I think at the time and it's probably changed now, there's no one really to just take you aside and go, you know, mate, this is the, this is what's going on. Like, you know, this is, you know, you got a room and the, the TL at the time, the team leader was, he gave you a little bit of insight, but it was almost like you just turned up on day one and were expected to know what weapon system you fire in, how to zero it.

And, you know, you just had to ask questions and kind of almost try and blend in and just copy what the lads were doing. Albeit, I don't like to do that myself now. If there's a new guy, I like to take him under my wing and make sure that he feels welcome and introduce him to everyone and make sure that he knows what he's doing. Because, you know, I turned up, I was 24 years old. It's a pretty daunting place to turn up to an SAS Sabre squadron and then find out all your teammates are in the late 30s.

And also pretty, like, big units as well. So yeah, I think it was just that era of that that's how men did it. You know, you just turned up and cracked on kind of thing. And that time frame, I imagine a lot of these guys were pretty salty. Like they'd been in Iraq doing raids and all kinds of counterterrorism work. Yeah, and that's probably part of it, right? is like you turn up and at the time I'd done, you know, two Afghan tours that were pretty heavy.

But these lads have been out on, you know, on TF, is it TF night or TF or Black or whatever it was? You know, they'd all seen some stuff. And they're all bonded by that and teammates and all that kind of stuff. So you throw in some young 24-year-old. And, yeah, they're not interested in you just at that moment. It's like you've got to wear it. gravy and you've got to earn your your place in that team because you're surrounded by a bunch

of alphas and they're not going to look at you until you prove why they should look at you. How did you go about that? I mean, the same way you go about anything, right? Like, I like being a soldier and all you've got to do is do your best. Luckily for me, like the guy that had been. in for two years prior to me. He was kind of mates with all that side, but he was still trying to like come to like chat to me and stuff like that.

And if I'm being honest, like the first six months, you're kind of on your own. It's like you're volunteering for everything. You know, if you get to the end of the brief and all the lads live in town and you're going on the range that day, then you just go, right, I'll grab the, I'm in the cookhouse in the morning, so I'll grab all the lunches and coffee. stuff and then you offer you know do you want a coffee whilst you're driving up it's like you just make you just show that you're a valuable asset to that team in as many ways that you can and and if you do that and you don't you avoid making any fuck-ups and you show them that you know you're a valuable asset

and that you're capable of being in that that team then you know they all come around to it and slowly but surely they all they all did and as that actually it's quite funny. We deployed out to Norway because I went into Mountain Troops, so extreme cold weather warfare was part of our remit. And one of the team members,

I won't say any names, but he was a big old boy covered in tattoos, involved in like football hooliganism and all that kind of stuff. And I got teamed up with him in as a tent buddy but yeah

he's interested he he was he was sound he ended up being RTF and I became really close to them in the end but it's like your first you first

trip away with the lads in Norway and it's just me and him in a tent at night trying to like trying to cook and stuff and let's just say conversation was limited I don't think you wanted to speak to me but yeah all that as soon as you kind of blend in with a team and they realize that you're

a good asset then all that changes and then you replace them right you become in that position that you're now the senior person and and you get a chance to do it differently and for me it was like all the new lads that ever came up even to this day if someone's there it's like I think probably because I never had it like that. It's important to take them under your wing, regardless of how good or shit they are as a soldier. It's imperative because, you know, you don't necessarily get a soldier that turns up

that's incredible, that can tick every box, and that's amazing at what they do. It's like in the special forces, it's a diverse unit, and every soldier's got a different background, a different upbringing, a different skill set, And that's the beauty of the special forces is that we train hard and we become professional soldiers at what we do from that point on. But, you know, if someone's a medic, if someone's an RMP, if someone's a, you know, a vehicle mechanic or whatever, it's like they bring a skill set that's valuable to that unit.

And it doesn't necessarily mean that day one, they're this perfect soldier. But there's a chance there that that person could be molded into a, you know, an amazing soldier in the future. and it's your job and responsibility to do that as a senior member of that team. And so lucky you getting to be assigned to a cold weather team, which I'm sure was a lot of fun. What was sort of, did your troop have like a deployment schedule? Was there something that they were looking to kind of like work up to? Yeah, so the special forces itself rotates on a two-year schedule. So as a Saber Squadron, you're generally on either operations, you've got a UK role,

or you're on operations around the world. And if you're not on any of those, then in between is just training. And then there's also training whilst you're in that. But, yeah, I mean, Afghanistan was still the flavour of the month when I joined. So that was the deployment whilst I was in. And then, you know, it's a very busy life. It's a lot of time away from home. It's a lot of time out your bed.

It's a lot of time spent training and drilling and different scenarios and different places. And it was the best thing that I've ever done. Do you know what I mean? I genuinely had an amazing career and being someone who joined when I was 24, I left when I was 34. Like, for those years, like, to do that, it's like, I wouldn't, if I had the choice, I'd do it all again in a heartbeat.

And you're still obviously a young guy, but you're also single, no kids, and I'm sure that helped. Yeah, 100%. You know, some people manage to form a relationship and keep a relationship whilst they're serving but it's it's difficult um i always said i wouldn't want kids whilst i'm in because you just don't get to see them grow up um and i know by speaking to some of my my friends that are still in or looking at getting out now that you know they missed out a massive chunk of their their kids uh lives growing up just because they're they're away on six-month deployment

they're away even whilst we're in the UK it's like we deployed to different parts of the UK around the world training and different roles. So, yeah, definitely being single and not married and no kids helps for sure. And so what was it like when you guys got to Afghanistan? I'm guessing this was like 2010 or so. Yeah, this would have been 2010, 2012, might have even been 2011, 2013. different. I think by that time, you'd definitely seen this phase change of, you know, like in 2006, we didn't see one IED. It was all, I'll shoot guns at you, you shoot guns back at us. And then you'd definitely send this shift now of advanced technology within IEDs or at least not advanced technology, but advanced.

tactics in terms of where they placed them, how they funneled you into areas and you're starting to see these IADs that you couldn't pick up with metal detection and all that kind of stuff reduced metal or whatever they were called. I can't know what they were called. Which you know I mean it was a pretty dark side of Afghanistan and I'm being honest that whole IED warfare game. I was pretty lucky to steer way away from that and never really experienced teammates getting hit by them. But obviously they were all around us at the time.

And in fact, during one of the deployments on whilst I was in the SAS, we literally specifically just went after a whole IED network. and took it down whilst I was working there, which significantly reduced the amount of IED attacks that were being carried out on our own raw Marines that were based in the same area at the same time and probably had a knock on effect for US troops at the same time. So probably one of our prouder moments of operational deployment that we were a part of. But yeah, we, I mean, luckily our operations were mainly carried out in the darkness of night, very limited day operations specifically because at night time we hold the upper hand we have NVGs we've got

you know helicopters and different methods yeah i was going to say mostly helicopter insertions i guess yeah helicopters a lot of walk-ins um so yeah i mean uh we we trialed around with some parachute operations as well which were which were more kind of to prove prove the point that we could do it and less less about the actual objective. So like some soft targets to show that this is possible. Yeah, like strike to spike kind of stuff. But I mean, still, I mean, jumping into Afghanistan is a whole completely different from jumping into the west coast of America. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I've heard stories where the American side special ops guys have, they messed around with it or looked at it. but they're like our squadron is going to get spread out over this whole valley because there's so much wind yeah and like you you've got to take in the human element of it as well and albeit we were proficient we were proficient in in free fall and halo heyho at that time um it was never like when we carried out the the afghan jumps we weren't specifically um looking into it as as as we weren't as specialist as we should have been for that level of jump. The Air Troop lads are always going to be skilled enough to do it, but to then expect a full squadron to land, you know, on that drop zone, you know, within a solid group in it's a big ask for, you know,

40, you know, 30 to 40 soldiers. Some of the lads don't even like it. Some of them aren't even good at it. That's just a given. You know, you get, we can't be good at everything. And that's kind of what those jumps proved. But actually at the time, we started to put non-air troop guys on the HAPC course, so we started to get them freefall trained.

And myself, I was literally on that first course. So as a mountain troop operate. Yeah, I was on the first course, the first Halo Hayho course out in the States. which was great and now you know I think every every badged operator is is free fall trained but actually coming back from being qualified as as Halo I'd literally just done the course and then we'd deployed out on that job and I got picked to

jump in with the the air troopers as the first stick on the black light DZ to mark the DZ for the rest of the squadron and there was only six of us that jumped and yeah needless to say that that didn't go all too great it was a complete red elume so zero moon state you struggled to see your hand in front of your face and yeah we we dropped out and had a bit of a split in the sky for whatever reason and I'd actually never jumped onto a DZ that was being marked by a strobe from the drone, from the Reaper. And we'd, I mean, we kind of felt that there was a way stronger wind that pushed us back,

that pushed us way beyond the drop zone. And by the time we'd realize that we were going a little bit too fast. And we'd gone past the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, strobe that was getting emitted from the reaper of the prent I can't remember which one. By the time we turned back into wind, we weren't really penetrating. So we ended up landing a K and a half away from the designated drop zone, mark the DZ and then brought the rest of the squadron in. But like I said, you know, you expect, you know, 30 to 40, you know, Hayho qualified operators to land on a T.

Red Allume State in Afghanistan, it's like you're having a laugh. And like, especially with the conditions that we jumped in, it was tricky for us as trained free fall operators to land in the right spot. And yeah, people landed, you know, not everyone, the majority of the lads landed within that area, but there was some that were all over the place. So, I mean, again, you know, you learn from these kind of situations. and I know that what that meant was obviously everyone getting trained in freefall and then specifically squadrons looked at how we get proficient at being free fall operators

considering looking at the operational theatre that we're in or that we were going into. You know, if helicopters aren't an option for certain weapon systems, parachuting in still a very, you know, credible option. So yeah, that's the kind of direction that it went. Yeah, I was going to ask, was the conclusion that airborne operations like this aren't really feasible in Afghanistan or more that like we need to elevate the level of training that we put the guys through to get more proficient at it? I think airborne operations are totally feasible and just, I think the level of training needs to be increased so that you minimize kind of the jump

compromising the actual operation. So for example, for a hostage rescue, that's like a perfect method of infill, right? Because for obvious reasons. So yeah, I mean, that was the kind of the fallout of that piece was that we've we need to be way more skilled. But again, a great one to run out and to test and see how it go. Yeah, absolutely. And I love the thing I want to ask. Were you guys operating mostly around Helmand Province at this time? Yeah, I mean, we actually operated within all of Afghanistan.

Okay. So, yeah, so, yeah, the whole of the area. I mean, there wasn't, there's no other UK. I mean, we had the SBS out there at the same time, but yeah, we were pretty much the whole of the Afghan battle area. I mean, Helmand was the hot spot, but Kandar as well. But yeah, all over pretty much. And you mentioned going after a IED network

where other targets, like high value targets, getting called up, you know, kind of like around the entire country, it sounds like? Yeah, so. I mean, the main battle group, or the main objective was HVTs, so high-value targets. And then, yeah, you kind of had like a load of smaller teams that would work with Afghan National Special Forces units, smaller teams dotted up over around the AO that would carry out, like, training roles, but also have an operational side to them where you're trying to hand over, the responsibility to the Afghans, you know, they can at some point take over and start

doing detention operations within their own battle space. You guys were doing unilateral operations mostly, but you're saying you had other elements that we're doing what we call foreign internal defense. Yeah. Yeah, same thing. So, yeah, like an S-T, similar to that. So small team of three would go and embed themselves with a, a local strike team and train them, develop them, fund them.

Obviously, the bigger picture would be that someday we would, you know, give Afghanistan back to a government that would be able to stand up and provide some sort of democracy and freedom for the Afghan people and these small training teams would stand up and be the special forces of the elite units of that providing protection and all that kind of stuff to the people. It obviously didn't go that way, but that was the objective. Yeah, I was going to ask, you know, what was sort of your perception as, you know, you go on these deployments to Afghanistan.

Of course, you know, yeah, rolling up an IED network is a tangible win for any unit. But did you have any thoughts or observations about how, like, the larger war was going? in Afghanistan? Yeah, I mean, it was always in the back of your head, even like in those early days in 2006. It was almost like, I remember having those conversations with the lads and just going, like, what we actually hear for? Like, what's the objective? But again, look, it's hard.

So a couple of things. It's like it's hard for us to be able to, it's hard for us to put today's thinking on something that happened 20 years ago. And I think this is like a floor of modern society right now is we're trying to almost say, right, 200 years ago when life was completely different. And neighbors were probably killing each other over a loaf of bread or something like that.

Let's put today's thinking on that. And just because that person said this or like had that or whatever, it's like now we should completely disenfranchise. disregard him out of human existence. It's like the same thing with Afghanistan. It's like we can quite easily fall into a trap now when we've got this free, like, abundant world of like, you know, you want anything and you get it.

And like, you know, we've all got money and we've all got like freedom to be able to have ideas and thoughts to be able to say, right, going into Afghanistan was the wrong thing to do. That's like you can retrospectively look at it and say, you know, maybe, you know, maybe we should have reconsider going into Afghanistan. Maybe, you know, what were the real legitimate reasons for going into it? But like, you know, I don't think that anyone sat in any of those high political war rooms and when, you know, let's go in here for shits and giggles.

You know what I mean? It was like there was some serious reasons why we went in there in the first place. And as a soldier on the ground, you know, Afghanistan's a barbaric place. It's not a place where pride flags can be flown or women have the same rights as what they do here. It's barbaric. Women still get stone to death. You know, women can't show any skin, right? Not even their eyes. and not only that, right, but they can't even see a man.

You know, I'm going to go around to like Afghan houses. I was doing some rogue stuff whilst I was in. I'd go around to like the houses with the interpreter. And like all the women had like they stood at the door staring at you, but they're all covered. Like their eyes are covered, everything. Gloves on their hands. Like nothing can be shown.

And like, you know, tell me that that's not oppression. And not only that, but they can't. see another human and for that short space of time that we were deployed in Afghanistan did you start to see universities schools Kabul became Western you know women in Kabul went from being fully covered up to wearing you know just a hijab or just the scarf and you know you started to see early signs that Afghanistan was a more peaceful place to live and if you ask the interpreters or people that live there when it wasn't ruled by the Taliban, that that's the case.

Do you know what I mean? And now it's gone back to rule under the Taliban. It's gone back to the old-school ways that was as well. Yeah, I think also it's maybe worth pointing out that no one really expected or thought that we're going to be in Afghanistan for what did it end up being like 22 years. You know, I think one of the criticisms actually of the war is that every commander came in and thought we were eight months away from victory. And we did that over and over and over again, especially after we killed bin Laden in 2011. I mean, who thought that we would be there for another decade?

That's pretty crazy. Like now, again, in retrospect, as we sit here today, looking back on it, it's like, what were we doing? 100% if you look at again retrospectively like the amount of money that we spent as two nations and what did we actually achieve within there like if anything we stirred the hornets nest but again like it's it's just the way of the world and you learn the lessons from you learn the biggest lessons from the the biggest mistakes and um and we get now the privilege because we still live in a free world to decide what the next 20 or the next 40, the next 50 looks like.

Yeah. When I was reading through your bio, it mentioned you also got involved in like the clandestine side of the job as your career progressed. Yeah. What do you mean by clandestine? I think you said it said that you did like two covert deployments. That's right, yeah. Yeah, probably three.

And then, yeah, they're just obviously countries that you can't talk about that you deploy them. But, yeah, again, like super interesting stuff to see that that part of the job. And it was kind of about the time that Afghanistan had started coming to an end for us anyway. And yeah, it's interesting. I mean, you look at the battle space now in the world and how that shifted and you've obviously got what's going on in Israel, Gaza, Palestine and Iran and the wider countries, Lebanon and every involved country and state. And then you've got, you know, the Ukraine and Russia thing and how that looks.

It's an interesting space right now. And I think it brings a lot of uncertainty. just because there's bigger powers at B, there's bigger nations at B and no one really knows what the outcome's going to be. Was that sort of your job on those deployments, like confirm or deny, you know, a recky of a sorts to go out there and, you know, be the eyes and ears for the British government? A little bit, yeah, a little bit of reporting.

A lot of it's a little bit of just like this kind of military, entrepreneurial ship of just go to a different place and set something up and just see what's there whether there's always going to be an element of reporting and everything that we do but it's it's a little bit of a little bit more of just right this is your job this is the team go over there and just see what you can make happen like make some connections build some stuff find some people to train and report back and was that something that you enjoyed by comparison to I imagine this is like a singleton mission or maybe you go out and twos, but did you enjoy being away from your troop and doing this type of work?

Yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, to get me wrong, being in the squadron's good. You've got a smaller role, not necessarily a smaller role, but you've got a more defined role. You know, your job that evening might be to be a sniper on the high ground, if that's your job. your job might be to be a ladderman, your job might be to just be in a team. It's pretty linear and binary. I think when you go out on those smaller jobs and tasks, it's a little bit more creative.

You don't have what specific role. You're working there as a team, trying to figure out what it is that, you know, where can you have an effect? or how can you make this situation better? Do you know what I mean? It's a way more interesting job role than just going to stick in a unit. It's on your shoulders and you have to come up with creative solutions. Yeah, of course, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And again, some of that can be traditionally very boring, and it's not as exciting as what people see it as. and some of it can be fun and you can do some you can get yourself into some wacky situations and do stuff that no one gets to do in the world so yeah it's it's it's interesting are uh i know you can't mention any like places or dates or anything but can you mention any of these wacky experiences um i mean uh uh uh uh less on an operational standpoint. But, you know, you and a team are in the middle of, like,

I don't know, some country where there's a war happening and living in a safe house and, you know, you'd be going out and having fun drinking beers and sometimes getting into a little bit of mischief and stuff. And it's like that kind of vibe. Yeah, it's like being on the set of Star Wars or something. Yeah, like just, it's good fun, you know, you like work hard. You try and you try and find things that you can do or build things.

And, you know, there's a, how should I put this? You know, without, obviously when you've got the whole squadron, it's very formal, official. And then when you're in these small teams, it's a lot more relaxed, you know. fires in the evening, sundowners, barbecues, like, you know, working with other agencies and working with other nationalities as well. And yeah, driving around in places that you shouldn't be and seeing some things that you shouldn't necessarily see or being part of.

And it's just, yeah, it's a very interesting side of the job for sure. If you get that, again, it can be very boring. Was that sort of like the tail end of your time at the SAS? Yeah. Yeah, so kind of the last four years. And then, yeah, and then I'd actually, we send guys away in the mountain troops to, we send two guys every four years, I think it is, to go and train in Germany to be a mountain guide. so I'd managed to get myself on that course.

So you have to learn German. The whole course is done in German. And yeah, you go out to Bavaria and live in the Alps for two years. So I'd done that and, you know, it was kind of being in the Alps for that period of time. and, you know, seeing something different that wasn't just soldiering. Kind of like shifted my outlook on stuff. And before I was very much specifically a green soldier and wanted to stay in the Special Forces and all that kind of stuff

and progress my career. And having gone and done that, just opened my eyes to a completely different way of life. a different way of living and it was actually when I come back from that tour we we deployed on one of those operations and I deployed out I'd actually spent three months in a in an ops room somewhere in the middle of summer and I used to just come out this ops room I was I was a team leader in the ops room and you'd go in about five in the morning and come out at about at 7.30 at night. And it was like sunny during the day. And I remember coming out and I stood out, I stood somewhere and one of the lads walked past me and he's just like, yeah, you all right.

I was just like staring at the sun, just trying to get some vitamin D. Because I've just been staring at screens for like the last eight hours or something. And then I deployed out and the the lads were just like, I think I knew straight away at that point that my career was going to change. And there probably wasn't long before I had to leave the special forces and go and do what I wanted to do. So yeah, it was pretty much four years from getting back from that course. And then there was a few reasons of why I decided to leave. It was mainly because of that seeing a different way of life.

And I think the longer you're in, the special forces, it's like the job can be quite monotonous. It's, you know, you're doing the same thing day and day out, albeit there's variety. it becomes very much, it becomes very, it can be very samey. And then, you know, I'd always joined, joined to be a soldier.

And the longer that you stay and the more you just end up sat behind a desk, which ultimately we all do at some stage. But I think at that time, I felt like if I left at the age of 34, then I'd still have a good run of life or setting something up outside. and yeah there's a few things there was a little bit of like structuring of the regiment and people getting in charge in positions that potentially shouldn't be in those positions that there's like a few funnels that kind of led me to just uh to to let me to leave and when it was that class you took uh in the alps was it like that you fell in love with mountaineering or was it more like that you

fell in love with way of life in the Alps and the civilian, civilian life out there. Probably both. Yeah. Probably first taste of freedom, Jack. Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like real freedom.

Like, I think not driving back to camp on a Sunday night for the 10th weekend in a row. But also the beauty and awe of mountaineering and the mountains. and something different in our adventure. And I think I'd always been hardwired for adventure. Just the reason that I joined the military, it was, you know, it was something that's always kind of been, something that I've always been drawn to. So to do it in the Alps was amazing.

I mean, it sounds like you were ready and made the right decision at the right time in your life. But was that transition out of the military is still a challenge for you? Yes and no. I think I had a plan when I left and I started working for an outdoor, for a clothing brand that was set up by two SBS,

special boat squadron guys. Oh, are you talking about the, what is it, True Dark? Yeah, they're great. Yeah, sick. Yeah, they're based down here. They're doing really well now. But I started working with those guys

when I get out when I left. So, don't get me wrong, there was like periods where I'd left and I was like sat in a flat in London that's where I lived at the time. And you're just like, you're like day five into not really knowing what you're doing. Yeah.

I'm like sat in the flat just like, okay. Because at the time, through dark, like the guys had just kicked off. I mean, when I joined them, they'd just designed three garments. So it wasn't like there was loads of work to do. So you were kind of just like sat there thinking like, all right, what are we going to do today? But then I think, I don't know about you, Jack, I think like that whole getting out process isn't just like within the first week or two weeks or three weeks

if you leave it. It's a process of years of like this shedding of like the skin that you built up within the military to you like now becoming like a civilian and like doing civilian things and like softening up emotionally and all those kind of things. It's like a shift over you like every year I notice different things. I think when I first came out, I very much thought I was still Jay, the Special Forces Soldier. And I probably did for like two or three years. And it was an ego thing.

Do you know what I mean? It was like, I'd be like, the fucking guy, I don't know who I am. In the back of your head, that's what you were kind of thinking. And it took me a long time to, you know, to like shed that skin. And, you know, it was an amazing career. And, you know, it's still such a big part of my life now in everything that I do because you'll never be able to take away those 14 years of military service.

But it kind of doesn't define me now. So many other things do that. Yeah. I mean, no, that's absolutely true. And I mean, you spend your young adult life in the military and it's normal to go with what you know. you could say until you learn a different way of life. Yeah, completely. And, you know, going back to the big, you know,

two things, like the big thing that was, that drew me to leave was freedom, was having autonomy over your life and your decisions and all that kind of stuff. And I can't remember the second thing that I was going to say. but yeah freedom uh and so i mean that is pretty great that you got a job working with uh true dark right out the gate um what what is kind of like your civilian life and career sort of progressed over the last couple years what what does that look like yeah i mean it's been a lot of trial

and error um i i i i still like to keep my foot into the the veteran community and and the military community like I think we spoke about before, like I worked with this brand, Delta 3 Oscar, helping them as an ambassador, but also developing their military line of product. So, for example, that they produce, they've got this really cool pattern that, so their main company, D3O has this,

got this shock-resistant or shock-absorbing product that's flexible. So you whack it with the hammer, it goes all hard. And they're in kind of extreme sports, skiing, motorbiking, dirt biking, all that kind of stuff, mountain biking. And they've now got Delta 3 Oscar, which is their military line of products. So they've got a plate that goes behind a ballistic plate that if your ballistic plate gets hit, it reduces the chance of blunt blunt force trauma, dissipates the energy of the round and reduces the chance of, you know, broken bones and all that kind of stuff.

They've got some pretty cool helmet mounts, sorry, helmet pads that reduce the chance of shock and reduce the chances of TBIs and brain injuries. So like I still like to keep my foot into the military kind of side of things. I work with the veterans organization, doing some stuff for those guys. And then my kind of day job is I've got a company that runs premium adventure travel for mainly high net worth clients. So pretty much anything, it doesn't have to be adventure travel. For example, I just had a lady climb Mount Kenya and go on safari in Kenya. I'm flat out to Monaco to talk to someone about climate Everest next week.

So it's quite diverse. And then I do, so I work for a partner in a company called Who Dare's Group, which provides special forces, corporate training and experiences. So we have a lot of companies come to us. for specific training to kind of make their teams better. Or it could just be a company that wants to run like a one or two-day Special Forces-style experience package. So, yeah, quite diverse, but still kind of keeps the old skill set. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you keep your hands in a lot of this stuff.

Of course. I only started shooting guns again recently. I went back out to the States because, albeit we have guns in America in the UK, we don't have them the same as you guys, which is unfortunate. So it was good. When I was in Montana, we went down to a range there and got to shoot some ARs and glocks. And you're still mountaineering. You're still working as a mountain guide.

Yeah, still mountaineering loads. Out to the Alps this year out in September. and still doing a lot of that stuff. Still have a lot of projects that I'm working on for myself. Like out next year to Denali and Alaska, potentially K2 in Pakistan. And then, yeah, just still trying to do things that keep the old excitement. Yeah, yeah.

Absolutely. And tell people where they can go to find. these different services that you offer, whether it's Delta 3 Oscar or the corporate training or the adventure travel, where can people go to find that stuff? I mean, Instagram is the main platform, like either on my page, J, double underscore Morton. Concept Expedition is on Instagram. You can email us if you're interested in doing anything, either one-on-one group trips or experiences, and that's just info at Conceptexpeditions.com. And then, yeah, check out Delta Thrioska.

Obviously, their website, their social media, all that kind of stuff. And, yeah, it'd be good to speak to some of the guys that listened and always keen for a chat. Yeah, that's great. Anything else that you'd like to talk about, anything that, you know, I didn't ask during this interview that you'd really like to get into? Not that I can think of, Jack. I mean, I'd love to read your book at some stage. I just see in the background. Oh, yeah, the novel.

Yeah, that came out in June. Yeah, it's a fun read, I hope. Good stuff. Good stuff. And likewise, if you come through New York, please let us know. Love to. Cigars and bourbon. Yeah, yeah, we can't,

we don't really have, the thing with guns, we sort of have that same problem here in New York City. You're not going to do too much shooting around here, but you might have to go up state. You have something, Dee? Question, what was it like going, summiting Everest? Yeah. So first

summited in 2017, and it was, I mean, the journey to it was, we tried to climb the mountain before that called Manaslu, which is the eighth highest. It was the first time I'd ever climbed an eye out of the tube mountain. And I think being like a Special Forces soldier, you think you can do anything,

but out issued like as a different story in that. And so to climb an 8,000 metre peak, you need six weeks. And I'd arranged to go out with this guy called John, who was an ex-S soldier who is now older, been successful in business. And last minute, John told me that he couldn't go out for the six weeks, but he could go and do three weeks. So I was like, mate, don't worry about it. It's a mountain.

We'll crack it or whatever. And then so I went off and, you know, did whatever for three weeks. And then we met in Nepal. Obviously, this was the first time that I'd ever been exposed to altitude at that height. and we skip the normal base camp trek, which is 10 days for Manusloo, similar or probably less, about eight to nine days,

similar to the Everest one. And if you look at altitude, so the body can adjust probably around every 500 meters, and what happens is you go a little bit higher, triggers the body to produce more red blood cells, you can carry oxygen around the body more proficiently. So we kind of rushed this mountain and float, you know, John wanted to helicopter straight into base camp,

and then we just had to go for the summit push. We got stuck at Camp Two and a huge snowstorm. And there's probably around a foot of snow outside the tents. And we got stuck in these tents with these German guys that I, funnily enough, knew from my time out in Germany. there were military guys from the KSK. And they were the only ones with tents because they, funnily enough,

were trying to do like an unsupported expedition. And they were going up at when everyone was coming off the mountain. Because our tents were at a camp higher up and we're stuck in these tents with all these Germans. And like we were running out of food. And John looks like he's going to die because he's probably got altitude sickness. and he's knocking on the door of cerebral edema.

And then we, obviously, the snow cleared and we cracked, we decided to crack onto the summit. And obviously a lot of fresh snow, cold temperatures, slopes around, you know, 34 to 37 degrees. It's like prime avalanche terrain. And anyway, we ended up just below Camp 4, just narrowly missing a huge slab avalanche. at which point we turned around, came back down and both survived coming back down. So then when we went out to Everest, Everest seemed like a bit of a breeze. We gave ourselves the amount of time, so eight weeks.

We were planetised properly and actually when we got up to Camp 4, which is the final camp, it's called the South Col. It said 8,000 metres. There was a huge storm, like a windstorm that was whipping through the calm. and there was a load of teams turning around and coming back down and there was teams that had stayed there 24 hours and they were considering going up that night or turning back round and we decided to take a punt on it and went for the summit push

and the wind dropped down halfway up and it was actually a beautiful day, clear blue sky, perfect conditions but because of this storm no one else had gone for the summit push there was probably I passed probably four people on the way up as I got to the summit, we had one Sherpa, two of them turned around. The idea was John would climb with two, I'd climb with one. So John was climbing with a Sherpa a little bit behind me. I was just on my own.

And there was no one on the route, literally passed four people on the way up. And when I got to the summit, there was two Korean climbers getting a picture. And I rushed over to them and was like, guys, can you take a picture? pulled out my squadron flag with the emblem on and they took a picture and got off the summit and that was the only picture that I had of the squadron flag and it came out blurry. So I was literally stood on the summit of Everest on my own.

No Sherpas, like no other climbers and it was pretty surreal. I remember thinking, you know, how do you make the most of like being on, being the highest man in the world at this point? And I don't think there is a way. It's like you're just excited to be on there. And John came up a little bit after and we got some good pictures and got off the mountain.

But yeah, it's a pretty special mountain. Obviously it's changed over the years. Went up again in 2019. And you started to see the crowds build. I was up on there in 2023, but only up to Camp 3. But again, you see massive swaths of people. now going there, I think, you know, everything's becoming more accessible and people want to push themselves more and get an Instagram picture in more wackier places than Everest is just one of

those places. Everest is obviously the highest, but as a mountain guide, adventure travel guide, what are some like lesser known mountain ranges that are just as beautiful that you would recommend to people? I mean, I'd recommend the Himaliladelphia. layers. Everest is obviously super busy, but you can get up to, there's some pretty beautiful, like, six and a half thousand meter, six thousand five hundred meter peaks to climb. Nepal's beautiful. Like there's literally, the Himalayas is the biggest mountain range in the world.

It's like phenomenal even just to go and see it and experience it. And even if you hike up to 5,000 meters on one of the passes, it's a size and scale that you will never experience anywhere else in the world. Obviously, the Alps on my doorsteps, amazing. Super busy, though. You can get some quieter places, but in the summer it's really busy. Scotland, like epic, epic place. Be prepared for insanely harsh winters

where you will see every single season known to man, and you'll be absolutely drenched for the whole duration of whatever it is that you're going to do. Where else? I've not done that much in America, I'd love to. Like I'm going to spend more time in America over the winter. Patagonia is obviously beautiful, insane. Very desolate, very isolated, not that busy.

Even just to go there and trek is absolutely beautiful. So, yeah, there's lots of amazing places around the world to go and explore. absolutely uh well jay thank you for uh taking the time to do this interview and sharing your story with us yeah appreciate you jack thanks for thanks for thanks for having me on yeah absolutely any final thoughts before we get going today good appreciate appreciate you guys thank you and thank you everyone who joined us and uh watched the show today and uh we'll see you again next week hey guys i want to take a moment to tell you about the team house podcast newsletter If you go and subscribe, it's totally free.

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