The Team House - IRBM's shot into Ukraine by Russia & the Information War | EYES ON PODCAST

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

Today we talk about the IRBM's shot into Ukraine from Russia, what a peace deal would actually look like and whether the Ukrainians would actually go for it. We also touch on the ongoing information war happeningSubscribe to the new EYES ON YouTube channel.⬇️https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJytcQbSOEKLGyhNwkqpd3ASupport the show on Patreon:⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouseFind Jason here ⬇️https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-lyons-666873316?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_appFind Andy Milburn here:⬇️https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fandymilburn8https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmilburn2023https://amilburn.substack.com/https://www.amazon.com/When-Tempest-Gathers-Mogadishu-OperationsFind Mick Mulroy here:⬇️https://www.loboinstitute.org/https://x.com/MickMulroy?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthorhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-patrick-mulroy-31198b52/#irbm #putin #russiaukrainewarBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Aizan. I'm Andy Milburn. I'm Jason Lyons. I'm Dmitz contacos. D. Ovid to you for today's topics. All right. Yeah, so things have been popping off for the most part.

Ukraine mostly, I mean, obviously what's going on in the Middle East too is, you know, not to take anything away from that. It's obviously a serious situation. But over the last week, we've seen the U.S. give the okay to use a taco. UK give you okay to use storm shadows. The French, okay, the scalp. There's talk about the terrorist missile with Germany. And the Ukrainians have been hitting inside of Russia.

It's been mostly in Kirst, but there have been times where they hit outside of Kersk, more deeper into Russia. And the Russians came back using IRBMs in Ukraine, I guess, saber rattling. Obviously, they weren't nuclear and stuff like that. there was a lot of like a lot of confusion I guess like everyone was talking about ICBMs they I mean they aren't are weren't and what this means obviously what does it mean for escalation is it everyone is it a move to for negotiation obviously like what happens now you and like I think it dovetails into like there's obviously a push

from the Biden administration to get all the the aid to Ukraine before the inauguration. And it's being seen by some people as an unnecessary escalation, seeing what Russia's done to react to it. So that's what's really popping on my brain right now. Yeah, and I was tracking, I was tracking a conversation, obviously on the last podcast with the Jack. I was a happy observer of that.

So I know that, you know, you laid the basis for a really good discussion on this. Just, you know, for the benefit of listeners who may not be up on tactical weapons, sorry, tactical ballistic missile systems, the attack ems, attack ems is a, it's a tactical supersonic missile. And when we talk about range, there's basically two blocks that we're talking about and the attackam's block that that is an issue is the one that ranges about 190 miles, which is 300 kilometers. And the Secretary of Defense, the current Secretary of Defense about a month ago said, hey, there's no point providing them because there aren't any significant targets within that range of the Ukrainian positions, which is actually incorrect. There's some by Ukrainian

in estimates 200 such targets. But most of them are in Russia, and that's the issue that if we tie, you know, when we were tying use of these systems to not being used in Russia, it kind of made no sense. Now, you know, and I'm just laying the stage for why people are worried about escalation. So originally coming out of the administration when the decision was finally made, And as you know, I think this decision is, I think it's not, I think it's timely, but I think it's way overdue because we have drip fed capabilities to the Ukrainians and allow the Russians to adapt. And in any case, you know, we said, the administration said that originally that these systems, when they could be used in Russia, they could only be used in the Kursk region. And the rationale for that was because the Russians had escalated there by bringing in 10,000 kremen. Koreans. However, by what they, where are we now, like the 24th? So five days ago, they,

attackers were used to hit a giant logistic support center near a place called Kerrachev in Brijansk, which is a oblast adjacent to Ukraine. But Kerichief is deep in Russia and it's nowhere near a curse. So it looks like if we, we, We may have said that, but we're already violating it. And then a day later, the Brits used 20 storm shadow missiles to hit targets within Russia. And the French have announced that they're going to use their scalp missiles, which are essentially the same as storm shadow, but they've got to give it a different name. So it's not to, you know, show that they are a, that they're a prodigy of the U.S. or the UK.

And the French announced that they're going to use scout missiles. And then the big question now is whether the Germans are going to use Taurus, which is similar long-range missile into Russia. Olaf Schultz, the chancellor, said about a month ago they wouldn't, but there seems to be a tremendous amount of public opinion. And certainly this is a big issue in Europe. It's interesting that for those, that European countries, obviously closer to fallout from escalation,

especially when we're talking about tactical nukes, are at least Britain, France and population in Germany, Baltics, Poland are strident supporters of hitting Russia itself. You know, I mean, this is, this is from that perspective, Ukraine's in total war fighting a war of self-defense. And you don't limit yourself, right, when it comes to that. We're either in or out. We either provide Ukraine with weapons that take lives, lethal weaponry, don't. If we do, then it doesn't make any sense, right, to put limits on it. Now, D, to your point, yeah, a ballistic missile, I mean, a, a missile that is capable of carrying a nuclear warhead is probably the best simplest way of describing it hit in NEPRO last week. But, you know,

this likely was just for show when you look at the hundreds of tons of high. explosive crashing into Ukrainian cities every month. You know, this was this was a pinprick and it was a demonstration. I think that talk about nuclear escalation, I don't think, I mean, I don't know, but I believe strongly that talking nuclear escalation is absolutely, it's in fantasy land. Every time, every time that the U.S. or NATO has provided, Ukraine with the new weapon system, Putin has banged the nuclear drum. He's not going to do it. He backs down every time that someone calls his bluff. The Turks were the first to discover this back in 2015. When Erdogan said, if you fly any more of your planes over our positions in Syria, we will

shoot them down. And sure enough, the Turks did. And Putin backpedaled, and no more Russian planes flew over Turkish positions. I mean, you've got to read the man, right? All this, all this hysterical fear in Western media about the Third World War of being upon us is so much bump. But let me, let me just say one thing on that. In a sense, this is a global conflict, right? Because when we talk about escalation, the Russians have already escalated this. And so what we're likely to see is more the same. They've escalated it by providing the Houthi's targeting data. That's a step against a global stability, if ever there was one, right? They've escalated by conducting sabotage, kinetic sabotage, attempted murder and murder all the way across Europe. They're likely to step up

that, maybe, but whatever they do, they will have decided to do previously. Those are the things that we should be keeping our eye on. And I know you covered the cutting of the two fibroptic cables in the Baltic Sea last episode. And I'd like to point out the Chinese shit that did that left from a Russian port. So yeah, we're likely to see more of that. But the Russians had planned to do that anyway.

So my feeling is, is, hey, we need to go all out because Ukraine is in trouble. I mean, despite some of our optimistic proclamations and even up to the last month, the Russians continue to advance in Dombas. They haven't taken Pockrovsked, but DIA sent you a couple of maps that maybe you can post in the chat, but they are certainly closing on, um, on, um, on. Pockrosk and beyond Pokrosk is Krematosk, which is the last major city that has not yet fallen into Russian hands. And I think, though more importantly and more dangerously for the Ukrainians are the fact that they are running out of air defense systems and the Russians continuing to hit their cities heavily, friends of mine, you know, reporting from Kiev saying that they're, you know, even in areas that are normally well covered, that they're now every night, you know, feeling their building shake from strikes, drones.

as well as missiles, electricity being cut out for most of the day, which is a big issue there as winter approaches. That is a big concern. And the second one is that Ukrainian units across the board are very much under strength. The Russians may have lost 600,000 men by British estimates since the beginning of the war, 57,000 from the beginning of the year. But they can sustain those kinds of losses and the Russian economy can sustain war footing for longer than the Ukrainians have. And that is, you know, that is the real issue. So, you know, my mind, forget about our ridiculous fear of escalation. You know, it's when this nabby-pambi hand-ringing is playing right into Putin's hands, just like trying to appease Hitler did in the 30s,

we should be providing Ukrainians with everything. Bring the war. home to Russia, really put him on the rogues, make the Russian people understand. I'm not talking about civilian casualties, I'm saying, but they should hear Russian targets being hit, right? Absolutely within the homeland. And that is essential, especially if we are looking towards the coming administration trying to impose a negotiated solution. Yeah, and I mean, I think a big part of this whole thing is like the information warfare,

And I think just using those IRBMs, it has like, you know, activated whoever, you know, the people on Twitter and like people generally who don't follow this as closely as you do or most people who are really interested in this due or are affected by this do. And they're winning it. They're winning it because like the U.S. Whatever you want to call it, like the people on Twitter or the news, they like this stuff. Like I'm not, uh, yeah, sure. I'm the same way because like even this show, right, to be completely transparent. Like in my head, I'm like, oh, how do we get the most views to talk about this? Because we actually talk about it in depth, the nuances, the actual context of what's going on.

But I'm going to make a thumbnail that says like who in World War III. You know what I mean? Like I'm going to try and do the same thing. Yeah. In an attempt to like, in an attempt to actually like educate people on what's really going on. But at the same time, I'm also part of that. Yeah, I mean, totally understandable, of course, no one wants a nuclear war. But look, World War III or a global war is kind of already taking place, right?

Yeah. I mean, Russia is the one of the one that's making this war global. But because Putin knows that, you know, everyone's scared of the nuclear threat because Putin, you know, memories of the Cold War and mutually assured destruction are still very much forefront in his mind and the good old days of the, the USSR, that is why he keeps talking about it. But he knows, he knows. I mean, he was part of the regime that understood mutually assured destruction, right?

I mean, the USSR kept to the rules, says, did we? You know, Russia does not want nuclear war anymore than the United States. Sure. And why? And why should it? Because there are other ways that it can hurt and continually erode the global, you know, global order. in the ways that I've already described. I mean, a sabotage campaign, assassinations, disinformation, undermining the political processes throughout Europe,

these have proven to be really successful for him before. Nuclear war is not going to be a good story for him, his administration, the regime, as well as for the rest of the world. He knows that. And by the way, you know, so what he does is he postures because everyone's mindset, all right, the average person's mindset is 30 seconds of news and they draw conclusions from that. So as soon as you say nuclear, oh my God, the NEPRA was hit by an intercontinental range ballistic missile ICBM. Okay, first time such a missile has been used in combat anyway. Right.

Even if that's true, it was a conventional warhead and there's a one-off, right? Now, I mean, if a nuclear event was going to happen, I don't think it's going to be a tactical nuke on the battlefield. By the way, tactical nuke may sound kind of contained, but it really isn't. Tactical nuke is going to result in tens of thousands of casualties. And no one really knows the ramifications or the geographic scale of using the tactical nuke. So again, he's unlikely to do that. Maybe there would be some kind of nuclear demonstration, you know, way, way above the Black Sea. I'm on thin ice here in talking about this.

But I'm talking about the very, very, very extreme. But no, he's sitting pretty right now, he thinks. He's got most of Dombas. His goal is to get, if he can, those final two cities, to weaken Ukrainian air defenses even more to impose incredible suffering on Ukraine, the population, by knocking out, you know, continuing to destroy the energy grids as winter approaches.

and then he knows that the administration coming in wants to impose a negotiated settlement, which plays right into what he wants. He doesn't, you know, and he can say, he can declare victory. And do we really think that he is going to adhere to any settlement rules that we think we've imposed? So yeah, that was...

Go ahead, Jason? No, I was going to say he's not going to adhere to anything. And I was also thinking, he's also got us here at home right where he wants us because he's got us divided. You know, he's got these big name influencers, and I think we may talk about that at the end, who are to use a term that the young kids use simping for him, simping for Russia, making excuses for them and basically pulling for them. And it keeps us divided.

So it keeps us at bay because, like you just said, we're about to have a new administration coming, who's already making overtures about you will make peace, you know, whatever that is, you will make peace and basically taking Ukraine's voice out of it. Yeah, I mean, that's a great point. The Russian, just the fact that we are seeing talk show hosts and other, you know, mouth breathers like ourselves on media, wringing their hands and declaring that the current administration is, is at. escalating. And look, you guys have heard me be very critical this administration about how we

supported Ukraine or rather failed to support Ukraine. And the drip feeding of weapon systems has been, it's been embarrassing, absolutely embarrassing the way we keep talking, you know, talking about our own fears of escalation with the most powerful nation on earth, supposedly. And yet we're running scared of Putin. Even worse, now he's playing with our minds. So we have significant portion of our population who talk about him admiringly. I mean, if, you know, if the media is to be believed. But yeah, I mean, I absolutely, you know, if we've learned anything, he's, he's not to be trusted.

You can't. I know it's very easy to draw an analogy of Hitler, but again, I mean, think about when Hitler invaded the Sudan land in, in 1938. And everyone's like, oh, he's going to be happy with that. okay piece in our time neville chamberlain said holding up a scrap piece of paper that hitler had signed all right 1938 okay one year before the war started in in europe if we don't we don't read our own history yeah yeah and i think going back to like uh whether Putin uses nukes or not whether it's tactical or you know others the one thing he wants more than ukraine is regime security he

wants to stay right where he is. And if he uses a nuke of any kind, like, that is seriously at risk. Yeah. Well, yeah. And we've got to, you know, in, in the end, he's, he's a pragmatist and personal survival. It is first and foremost in his mind. So what would a, what would a peace deal kind of look like? And frankly, what do Ukrainians actually go for it?

Well, from, and of course, I've got, you know, no. insider scoop but just from from I mean no official insider scoop so you know what I'm hearing is it would involve freezing the lines where they are now with you know Russia having some 20% of Ukrainian territory whether or not that includes the those cities I mentioned in Dombas depends on what happens on the battlefield in the next few months but but freezing lines there of course the question is is who patrols that, who ensures that, right, to ensure that that is happening. Because when you have a frozen conflict, you need usually an external force to come in to impose

order and to report violations. I mean, obviously you have to. Okay, that's number one. Number two would be some moratorium on Ukraine's request to join NATO. And the moratorium that I'm hearing would be two decades, which is a huge amount of time, Right? Number three, and I don't have an answer on this, would be controlling or limiting or announced limitations on the amount of arms that, and mountain type of arms that the United States provides Ukraine. I would be horrified to see that clause included in this. I mean, again, with the United States. I mean, we, the negotiation agreement is between. Ukraine and Russia. And I think the best that we can do is to enforce that, to ensure that it holds, is say, okay, you know, I don't agree with the moratorium on joining NATO. But if that is the case,

then we should be arming Ukraine up during this frozen conflict and be very open about it, because that is the only incentive that Putin is going to, is going to pay attention to. Jay now I agree I mean across the board that makes sense I think the biggest thing would be the moratorium on on them joining NATO I actually saw just before we started taping a comment someone made on X about that this is Ukraine's fault they started this for making overtures about joining NATO in the first place that they that's how this whole thing started and I it's laughable to me that yeah it's a concern of Russia I get it but to blame a nation that has been invaded, had their sovereign territory invaded, and I guess this is me going on my soapbox now, is hilarious from the same people who say, if someone evaded this country, they use the whole rifle behind every blade of grass analogy.

They're the same people that say that, but believe that Ukraine should just roll over and take this and whatever comes after. it's ridiculous to me. Yeah. I think those parameters in terms of having a piece deal are like farcical. Like it's not going to, why would the fuck would Ukraine want to do that? Why would they ever do that? Even if they lost US support, I mean, why would they say yes to that? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's not like exactly like they're getting run over by the Russians. Let's be honest. Yeah. I mean, the Russians are, the Russians are having a hard time too. I think it's fair to say. I mean, obviously, you heard about the casualty figures. There are also good signs that, you know, the Russian war economy,

the Russians put their economy way more in a war footing than ours. And the big issue has been, we talked about here, air defense systems, but also an imbalance in artillery shells. But both of those factors are likely to stabilize and then tilt in Ukraine's favor during by late 2025, right? So that's why I think it's so important whether or not there's an attempts at a negotiated settlement or not to keep the flow of arms coming. And yes, okay, you know, worst case scenario, the United States limits itself, but we should not, certainly not try and limit Europe, European countries and supplying Ukraine. And that's, you know, one positive aspect of this whole sorry war has been.

that NATO has stepped up to the plate. It's gone from being in in Macron's words, brain dead to being a force to be reckoned with. Poland is spending 4% of its GDP now in defense and has a formidable force right there on the, you know, NATO's eastern flank is essentially a regional leader. The Baltic countries too have really stepped up to the plate. And even smaller countries like the Czech Republic, you're not hearing, hand-wringing, oh, we must negotiate. They're up in the anti-2 on building up their military defense capability. And then, of course, you've got Sweden and Finland joining NATO. So Putin's done great things for NATO so far.

And that has caused a loss of credibility for him, so we should continue those efforts. As far as, you know, the last piece about this is, you know, the settlement in order to work, both parties have to believe in it, right? So, you know, to say, hey, we're going to, the quickest way to end the war is to lose it. And yes, we could arrive at peace in one day, right, by playing into Russia's hands. But we've got to take Ukrainian, you know, Ukraine interest into consideration. I mean, how that sounds so obvious, right? Right. And I think you'll find that, you know, if the polls, there's an economist poll this week,

and the majority of Ukrainians are not opposed to a settlement, right, even if with Russian boots on Ukrainian soil now, and conceptually, right? Now, whether that includes the current position or not, hard to tell, and I can't speak to that. But yes, everyone wants to see the war end. they're watching the best of their youth just being destroyed over the course of the last, over the course of the last, you know, almost three years. And so to them, I think they've reached a point, again, if the, you know, the polls,

and I believe what the economists are saying, at least ought to be believed that 52% now are in favor of some sort of negotiated settlement. But it can't be one that is just thrust down their throats and that is disadvantageous. Right. And it's one-sided rushing. Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

So what does it look like? What does a world look like where there's a negotiation going on for peace? But let's say a year from now, Trump administration's in. No more aid coming to Ukraine from the U.S. and it's basically just Europe. What is the war look like a year from now when? there is no magical peace deal where Ukraine loses on every single deal point and everything like that. Because there's no way they go for that. No, there isn't.

And Europe, you know, a number of European countries, I think, regardless of what happens, will continue to supply Ukraine. And that is not negligible. You've seen a, you'll see, you're already seeing a shift in reliance more and more on European supplied weapons systems. In Estonia, they did the Ministry of Defense did a study that showed that by, I think it was late 2025, the Europeans could be manufacturing and supplying, could be filling that gap on 155 Alteris shells to replace the United States. and if if you know the current trend continues with storm shadow and scalp and torus you know it can continue to give russia a really hard time i mean let's face it the united states and i think as jackpointed out this last week we've we've kind of dragged our feet on

this stuff and by the way attackums is is now an old system it was developed in the 80s so i get it all this talk about oh we need to you know we need to hold this stuff and not going to the Chinese come across the Taiwanese strait. Well, we're already shifting our eggs out of the attack and his basket into other missile systems. So these are not yet surplus, but they're not, again, they're an outdated weapon system. And so we should be providing as many as possible.

We should also be providing, you know, the H.M. 158 cruise missiles and precision guided bombs. But if we don't, my point is that the European manufacturing, European industrial, military industrial complex, there is no such a thing. But I mean, if you view it that way, is stepping up to the plate to replace, and with the intention of replace the United States. I don't think you're ever going to see, especially those frontline countries, I'm talking again, the Baltics and Poland, and the UK,

although the UK is not front line, the UK memories of this. Second World War are very, very vivid. And when you go to the UK, you will see Ukrainian flags and evidence everywhere. It's like a flashback to them to 1930s. And you're going to see those countries continue to support Ukraine, even though in the UK now, it's a labor government, you know, by the U.S. perspective, the socialist government. There's been no opposition. there to continuing to go all in to support Ukraine. You remember that they emptied, like turning the offensive in 2023, the Brits, well, they continue to do this train thousands of Ukrainian troops in the United Kingdom.

Talk about fears of escalation, right? They don't, they don't can. They emptied their shelves of Stormshadow, emptied their shelves of all their stocks of reaching equipment for the offensive. And I mean, again, when we talk about red lines, it makes no sense to be worried about Putin's red lines when you look at a country. And I'm not saying this because I'm not British, what the United Kingdom has done to support Ukraine without fear of Putin gnashing back. And they're much closer and far more vulnerable to Russian, to Russian malignant efforts than we are. I have a question. Are there any efforts being undertaken that we obviously could talk about?

about that's not like classified. In terms of like the information war in Russia, how we can like maybe loosen Putin's grip. I know I've heard from a bunch of people like, you know, the big, the majority of the population in Russia is relatively apathetic in terms of their domestic politics and stuff. It's like Putin's our guy and that's it,

especially like maybe not so much the younger generation, but the older generation. Are we doing anything to like try and rattle Putin's cage in terms of like at home? Or is it like an impregnable fortress to get into? Like we can't even touch it. Yeah, Dee, that's a great question. And, you know, this conversation that I'm about talking about is dated now.

But I remember when I was working on the regular warfare podcast as a host, we brought on the author, I forget his name, the book called Active Measures, which is about Russian disinformation, both history and current. And, you know, the book, one of the themes of the book is how kind of ineffective that we are, we United States, we Western countries, and projecting our messaging within Russia. And all this talk about what we need to do is tell the truth. Of course, there's absolute bullshit in this modern era. Hard to say where the Russian population lies. They are, yes, they appear to be more abundant politically, but, you know, they're clinging on for survival. I mean, you've got to, even criticizing the war will get you a 15-year jail sentence in Russia. So it's very difficult for us to assess the level of opposition.

But there are certainly indications that Putin's not popular. I mean, remember when Progoshin launched his coup? And, you know, some of you may have seen the videos when you walked into the Russian army headquarters in Belgrade. And yes, everyone was kind of scared of Progoshan, but they could at that point have the Russian army. could have crushed the few thousand Wagner dudes involved in the mutiny, but they didn't. And in that discussion, the generals alike, they're quite, they're almost agreeing with progotion. And then he's allowed to march on Moscow unhindered. You know, I mean, that was an early indication. There's no doubt that the, I mean, there can be no doubt that there must be

rumblings of discont in the army. They have taken the brunt of this war. And this was in their eyes an FSB war. They were led into it by false intelligence by the FSB, and the FSB is what's pushing. I mean, it's kind of governing not just Russian state, but there's a very clear feeling that the FSB governs, or is peering over the army's border to look for any possible signs of mutiny.

I think that if, I, I, I, I think certainly we can do way more. The Ukrainians are doing a fair amount. Obviously, they have advantages and culture and language, and they are broadcasting by all means into Russia itself to include very effective program for reaching out to Russians with relatives fighting in Ukraine who had been captured or killed, have disappeared because they received no information.

And the Ukrainians are tracking down what has happened. to their loved ones and even offering to fly them to Ukraine to you know to to meet with their loved ones if they are a prisoners of war I think we can do way more the United States I mean we are the nation that spawned Madison Avenue right I mean look how sophisticated we come to advertising and yet that has not shifted into our information efforts and I've always been frustrated by that always and and continue to be I don't understand stand from the tactical to the strategic level why the United States is so cack-handed at spreading information. Jason, what do you think? You know, or countering disinformation. Right.

Yeah, I have no solid information on an I.O. program being run against Russia, but I'm 99.9% sure that there is. But as Andy's, you know, eloquently stated, it's just hamstring. It's, it's Hamstrong, it's in my view, and from what I've been told, it's very weak. I think at this point, we, not that we've seen, I'm saying this from a very sanitized point of view, because Andy's been on the ground. I have not there. But we do a good job, and the Western media does a good job of showing the destruction in, from a Ukrainian point of view, you know, the people there.

And my heart absolutely goes out to them. But to the average Russian, that means nothing to them because unless they have relatives there, it's a whole other world for them. So I think, and I am not in any way advocating for this, but I believe that if there's an escalated use of Western munitions inside Russia and they start seeing that, that destruction on their home turf and start seeing some of their civilians, you know, God forbid killed, that might be the. IEO open door that we need, that the West needs to say, hey, look what your government's doing to you. Look what Putin is doing to you. He said that he was going to keep it there and that this thing would be over in six months a year. And look, now it's at your door. Well, it's supposed to be over in five days and it's been a thousand. Exactly. And so I think it would take, I think at this point a hit on a major city, major population center, again, God forbid, you know, that it's,

happens, but if it does happen, that might be something that might, I hate to say, use the word help, but help the information warfare sector. Well, Andy, that one was interesting when you talked about with like captured Russian soldiers, like they hit up their family and stuff and like offer them to come to Ukraine. Like I had never heard that before, right? I saw a video of that. I'm relatively interested in this topic. Like something like that is something that.

Yeah, it's fascinating. Whether it's ever, right? any government like U.S., Ukrainian, Western European should be using it somehow to get into Russia, to get into, like, in front of Russian eyeballs to understand what the fuck's going on. A little bit better. There's a really good YouTuber called 1420 that he's a Russian kid. Blonde Russian kid, bleach blonde Russian kid. He's like a little punk kid.

He walks around, St. Petersburg, Moscow, rural areas in Russia. man on the street style asking people what they think about the war and if you watch it's really interesting because it's a lot of people are just like i don't know so there's some people who are like hawks and putin is the best and i love him you know and we're going to take nazis out of ukraine and whatever and then there's some people who have the balls to be like yeah this shouldn't be going on this is ridiculous and his kids out there in russia doing it right i don't know if he's being if he's really platformed in russia but he is on youtube uh the youtube channel 1420 if you want to check it out.

It's pretty wild and balzy. Yeah, and that's, you know, I mean, reinforcing that. And, you know, this is all very unsophisticated stuff. I mean, we should be, we should be taking a page from, you know, the Chinese are actually ahead of the Russians when, in many ways, certainly when it comes to infiltration of communication systems. There's a, you know, there's a program they call Flax Typhoon that was uncovered by the FBI recently and you know they

Chinese have compromised with something like quarter of a million routers cameras other devices not just in the US and Taiwan Vietnam and Germany collecting you know government corporate military data I mean these are espionage methods

I mean but it's technology designed for espionage but but also at the same time can be used for for disinformation. I mean, there are certainly things that we can do against Russia that never, you know, that never break the threshold of public visibility unless the Russians discover it. And, you know, and I don't know. I mean, obviously, we are bound sometimes by our own,

I mean, always by our own rules and regulations, but espionage happens. We all know that, and technical espionage happens and is being used extensively against us. And I would love to know that we are doing the same against our enemies. And the fact that not just once but twice, a Russian ship, I mean, sorry, a Chinese ship from Russian port can tear up a central fiber optic cables, you know, severing ties between was it Germany and Baltic states and Baltic states and Finland that would be used in any sort military campaign. The fact that they can do that and just without any repercussions, any time they want really deserves me. Yeah. You know, and I don't mean, oh, we impose sanctions.

I mean, if they do that, then we do something similar to them, right? You know, look at all the crap happening in the South China Sea. There should be an organization that looks like Greenpeace, right? Remember Greenpeace? But it's full of, it's, it's U.S. funded and it's U.S. backed, right, doing all kinds of shit in those Chinese areas of influence, the areas that the Chinese are trying to impose influence. I mean, filming what is going on, publicizing it, bringing just continuous bad publicity to the Chinese. I would imagine that is perfectly legal, right? And in that green piece, you have dudes who are former soft operators who are doing other things too.

And I mean, maybe it is happening. But there you do something where you get the world's attention, you get sympathy on the world of the world, and yet we are actually damaging China in an area that it cares about to some extent in the perception, but we're also gathering intelligence, and we have the ability to disseminate, to, to, there I say it, sabotage Chinese efforts there.

Yeah. Do you guys want to get into this Rogan clip? I mean, we're talking about information war and stuff like that. And it seems like the Russians are really doing a fucking good job. You know, seeping their way into like one of the biggest podcasters in the country, not one of the biggest podcaster in the country.

And that clip is going viral where he's talking to, allegedly, at least my opinion, drugged out music producer Scott Storch, which is the funniest. part about it if you ask me he's not talking to some like former state department official or some geopolitical expert or somebody who actually knows what's going on he's talking to like a drugged out music producer uh and it's and he goes off on on what's going on the ukraine

and russia and how we're in the wrong especially now because we're like trying to really push all the aid there before inauguration and stuff like that and we gave the okay for the attackums and the longer range ballistic stuff. I just want to get your thoughts on it. What I don't feel safer is right now they're launching missiles into Russia. How are you allowed to do that when you're on the way out? Like the people don't want you be there anymore.

This should be like some sort of like a pause for like significant actions that could potentially start World War III. Maybe that would be a good thing that we would like to avoid from a dying former president. It's the whole thing. is nuts. I mean, look, I don't know shit about politics. Zelensky says Putin

is terrified. Fuck you, man. Fuck you people. You fucking people are about to start World War III. Yeah, it's crazy. Russia fired a missile today. I feel like they fired an intercontinental ballistic missile for the first time ever. It's the first time one of those has ever been

used. That's insanity. Fucking insanity, because those intercontinental ballistic missiles can have nukes on them. This wouldn't, didn't. But if it does, the whole world changes and it changes because the military industrial complex and it changes because the money that's going to Ukraine and it changes because the outgoing president

or whoever the fuck is actually running the country is decided to do something fucking insane fucking insane and we're all sitting there watching it and people are cheering it on CNN was saying like finally see what their headline was about Zelensky using about Biden giving Zelensky the ability to use long-range missiles

U.S. made long-waring... It's not like nobody knows where they came from. It's not like nobody knows we've been funding this. It's a proxy war. The whole thing is fucking insane. It's insane. Come to the negotiation table. Sit down. Work this out.

Stop killing everybody. U.S. allows Ukraine to use long-ray missiles. So what did they say... Someone had said that, like, CNN was saying that it was a good thing, which I think is... How? How is the left? gone so far crazy

that they think it's a good thing to launch missiles that's what's scary about life is like you don't want to pay attention to that shit you just want to live your life you want to just be carefree and have fun and do the thing that you're passionate about and meanwhile the world is burning

and you can't do anything about it at that high level it's like there's nothing well we can we voted Trump in and his idea is to stop all this shit and hopefully he can do that Yeah. But, you know, man, fuck. We got 60 more days until Trump gets in or whatever it is.

How many days is it, Jamie? But who knows? Maybe once it gets in, they'll ramp it up. Who knows? Maybe they'll sabotage his administration. That's what's even more scary. People don't want them in power. And the people that are in power don't want to leave power,

and they'll try every way they can to keep it. 60 days from today. All right. All right. On the news. 60 days. Keep your fingers crossed. Yeah.

Just hope Putin understands what's going on as well. Zelensky doesn't do anything stupid, but saying that Putin's terrified. God damn it. It's like you're trying to like tug the tail of a fucking sleeping dragons. Dragons. Dragons. Yeah. Also, Zelensky, can I get a drug test?

For me, the biggest thing is like you just said, I mean, people are going to talk. People have opinions. So whether it was a State Department official or a former president, whatever it is, people are going to have their opinion. That's fine. can talk about it. But the fact that Joe Rogan, and I'm not just picking on him, I'm talking about these influencers, period. The fact that they have, they know that they have this much influence, and they're so willfully one-sided on things. And that could be any side, whether it's right, left, whatever it is, is just astounding to me that people will still defend that. You know,

they will, like he, if you watch that whole video, not once does he say that the fact that these munitions are being used in Russia is coming as a result of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. If it hadn't happened, they wouldn't be being used. But he never once says that. And it just, it blows my mind. I'm right. You know, I think, I don't think we can ever solve the problem of, and I weren't just blame it on the American public. It's probably public's worth worldwide. But I think we in the United States tend to be more susceptible to these isolationist arguments because, you know, the average person tends just to care about the economy, how it affects him or her money in his or her pocket. And so the only time he or she worries about international events is if

there is a threat to their personal livelihood or their life. So it's very easy for someone to take someone from that point of ignorance and just inject fear. I mean, it's what advertising relies on, right? You name it, from herpes to, to, I don't know, car accidents. I mean, commercials always start with the injecting fear and then say, hey, this is, you know, what can be done. And when you have a very polarized, a public that is very polarized politically anyway, it's easy to pile in on any administration. So this current administration say, look what's happening.

Biden is escalating. Well, I mean, from the perspective of someone who has viewed the war from the start, very close quarters, I would say, no, we've escalating. Are you kidding me? Three years later. And we're finally allowing Ukraine to use the weapons, our weapon systems to their full effect against an aggressor. that is escalating. We're the most powerful nation on earth. I mean, it's absurd how puslimanias

we have been. Notice I said that word correctly this time. Not escalating. And, you know, how many of those viewers understand the history of the Second World War and its origins within Europe in the 30s. I mean, my kids don't even learn about Vietnam at schools. So unless you have a historic perspective and you are just Joe Blow in the street. And of course, course, arguments of whatever that guy's name is that, and Joe Rogan are going to, when they play on fear and their little two-minute sound bite, they're going to have a tremendous effect and have millions and millions of views. Well, he is definitely.

To, you know, our whatever it is, by the way, subscribe at the end of this. Please, yeah. I mean, listen. We become Joe Rogan and we'll have a very educated American public. Yeah. Yeah, we have to start talking about you. UFOs to start getting some Joe Rogan similar numbers. If we played on fear, you know, if every episode we started.

I mean, that's honestly, can you believe the shit is happening? Frankly, most of the big podcast, because I'm obviously plugged in to like what the big podcasts are doing and what are they saying, most of them are doing that. They're playing on fear. Whether it was leading up to the election or even now, you know what I mean? One side or the other. One side of the other.

Yep. They all play up on fear and what's going on and are like, whether it's from aliens observing us to trans people are going to kill you or, you know, fascists are going to come and be goose stepping down Main Street. You know what I mean? Like one side or the other, you know, that's what the big podcast do is they freak people out. There's a sense of urgency for people. this is my friend Athena there's it's what people

it's what these podcasts do literally even in our own space like the team has space eyes on space I look at Times Radio Times Radio Times J is a huge publication you see I see their YouTube videos

and it's like Putin's in trouble Putin's it's like everyone tries to sex it up I do the same thing and you know and that's fine to get people in and have them watch your episode or your your show, but you kind of got to give them a little bit of that sweet and give them like the vegetables,

give them like the real information that's no bullshit, that's nuanced, that's under, you know what I mean, like, and not just play to that fear, but a lot of podcasts do do that. We don't because we're the best, so subscribe. Along with that too, I think something that, sorry, Andy, something that earns a lot of respect from me is when people use the words in my opinion. Unless you're an expert at it, like I look at some of these, I get caught up looking at some of these tactical guys and, you know, I was a CEO, I was a GB, I was whatever, you know, you get caught up in that stuff. When you get outside of your wheelhouse and you are not saying,

in my opinion, or I'm not an expert in this, but I believe that kind of thing, to me, you're just, like you said, you're just stoking fear and you're pushing a false narrative to some extent because if you're not an expert in it like you'll hear me say it all the time and most of the time i'm sure that readers or listeners will say why doesn't jason say anything when they're talking about like israel or ukraine and stuff like that's because that's andy's wheelhouse so i'm learning just like everybody else is i have an opinion on it and i will say that but when we start getting into intel stuff then i'll talk about it but other than that you're going to hear me say my opinion and not many of these people including joe rogan do that and so their listeners

take that as gospel and it's dangerous. Yeah. Anything else, boys? How are we feeling? I feel great. We're on blue sky now. We are. Check it out. All the links will be in the description.

Don't forget to subscribe to the new channel. Andy Milburn has a book. It's called When the Tempest Gathers. It's right over his right shoulder. It's a great book. I've actually read it. One of the three books I've read in my life. The link is in the description.

Jason's on Blue Sky too. We're all on Blue Sky. The links will be in the description below. The best way to do to support the show is Patreon.com slash the team house. We have a lot of fun, cool stuff coming up with the Patreon in the new year. You'll be getting little gifts and stuff like that. So get excited. I'm excited.

Thanks, guys. This is good. Thanks, everybody. Bye, everyone.