The Team House - Navy SEAL in Vietnam & Shaping the SEAL Teams | Master Chief Hershel Davis | Ep. 267

Episode Date: March 23, 2024

Hershel served in the Navy as a SEAL during Vietnam and well beyond. He also worked as a contractor for Blackwater.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Today's Sponsor:Legacyhttps://www.givelegacy.com/To help support the show and for all bonus content including:https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse-AD FREE AUDIO-AD FREE VIDEO-Access to ALL bonus segments with our guestsSubscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouseOr make a one time donation at: ⬇️https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouseTeam House merch: ⬇️https://teespring.com/stores/my-store-10474963Social Media: ⬇️The Team House Instagram:https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_linkThe Team House Twitter:https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePodJack’s Instagram:https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_linkJack’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21Dave’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/dave_parke?s=21Team House Discord: ⬇️https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6SubReddit: ⬇️https://www.reddit.com/r/TheTeamHouse/Jack Murphy's memoir "Murphy's Law" can be found here:⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Law-Journey-Investigative-Journalist/dp/1501191241The Team Room Reading Room (Amazon Affiliate links):⬇️ https://jackmurphywrites.com/the-team-room-reading-room/Intro music by https://www.youtube.com/user/RemixSampleWant to sponsor the show?Email: ⬇️[e-mail]#navyseals #vietnam #blackwaterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

Hey guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to talk to you today about a way that you can help support the podcast if you're not already. We would really appreciate it if you guys went and reviewed us on Apple or Spotify. Those reviews really help people find the podcast and help it get recognized. And, you know, if you've been enjoying the show, we really appreciate your support. Another thing that you can do to support the channel is to become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon memberships that start at just $5 a month. And when you sign up, you get access to all of our episodes ad-free. That's the big bonus for that.

I mean, we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for our subscribers. But this is the biggest and best way that you can support the Teamhouse channel and podcast if you'd like to. And we really appreciate that. So go out and check us out at patreon.com slash the team house. Special operations. Covert Ops. espionage, the team house, with your host, Jack Murphy and David Park. Welcome to episode 267 of the team house. I'm Jack Murphy here with Dave Park, and we're

very honored tonight to have on our show as a guest. Retired command master chief, Herschel Davis, served in the UDT SEAL teams, had a very extensive career, and then retired and had another second career as a security contractor working abroad. Herschel, thank you so much for joining us on the show. Really appreciate you coming on here tonight. My pleasure. You're lucky. The first ones never get to do anything like this.

Well, I appreciate you bearing with us and through all the technical issues, and our viewers can see Herschel's on the phone. It's a bit of a jury-rigged situation, but it seems to have worked out. So Herschel, my first question, I just want to ask you if you could tell us a little bit about, you know, how you grew up, what your upbringing was like and how that sort of propelled you towards military service. Well, a lot of military people in my background. My mother was the baby of 12. So everybody was old when Herschel came along. And I went by Benny back in those days until I joined the Navy.

and then everybody started calling Herschel except close friends. But that's, that's, as I grew up, I, military is all I wanted to do. Of course, I started out with slingshots. Then my dad got me as a single shot, a little rifle, and I started shooting things, and we ate him. So that dad of mine was the only man I've ever been afraid of. God, my, he was scary. He was a tough old boy. he was a cracker from Georgia,

tougher than shoe leather, old fighter, college educated, and they raised me quite well, I thought. Mom was very loving, dad was scary, and usually mom would save me.

Marvin, that's enough. Thank you. Can you just stay with me, mom? But I was while in a march air, I'd do any damn thing, but, you know,

not necessarily right, but that's the way it was. When you're a kid, you don't think about shit. You just do it. So as you came of age, you know, 17, 18 years old, how did the Navy start to enter into the picture? Well, I had a cousin, was a sailor guy, Korea. I had several that were back in World War II. My dad's brother was with the Army,

and he was a, tear too. I guess they're just growing up on that plantation. They just became tears. But Uncle Wayne, of course, he's passed away. But God, he had some down in Papua New Guinea and Philippines. He was with MacArthur out of Australia and got his honor and sent. He made it up to the rank of captain and retired at second class. So he was, he was always knocking the shit out somebody. So you enter into the Navy

and looking over your your CV, your resume service record, I saw that you actually started out your career. You were a sub guy. Yeah, I came in as a nuke. I had a I was pretty, yeah,

I don't want to brag, but I was smart. I had good grades in high school and every thing and I had a scholarship to college. And my senator that had me appointed, I was first alternate, so I'd have probably got in, but he died.

And they just all went down to swirly. Oh, wow. And I wanted to be a naval officer, but that didn't work out. So my option was, join the Navy. And the test, I aced their test that they gave me in.

And the Corsetti, Chief Corsetti, I'll never forget him. He said, You can do anything the Navy you want to do. What do you want to do? I want to be on one of them damn submarines. How about the nuclear program? About two and a half years of training. You have to join the Navy for six.

I said, hell, I'll join the Navy for 20 if you want me to. But I joined the Navy for six. And doing a half years of school, nuke school, all that stuff, sub-school, blah, blah, blah, all down the line. And that's how it worked out. Then I took a test. somewhere while I was on my first submarine, which I was just getting qualified.

It was a diesel boat. And I was in the engine room, after engine room, boiler. And I got approached to, you know, if you want to be an officer, we got this Nyset program, Navy Enlisted Scientific Education Program. And I said, well, I'll give it a try. But I wanted to be a Naval Academy officer. You know, don't ask me why. I don't know.

it's just the way I was. And if you're going to start, start at the top. And, you know, I got to college. I got it selected, and I spent four years of University of Missouri in my last semester. Hey, you know, I hate to pay past the blame. It's my fault. But I had the sorry-ass-dam professor I ever had while I was in school in Missouri. and I failed advanced thermodynamics.

I smoked the first one, but that second one, I need a little help, and he couldn't help me. Well, read the damn book. I've read the damn book. I have a dozen times.

I need your help. You're the professor. And he didn't give it to me, and then he didn't like me because he knew I didn't like him. But that's the way it worked out. So I just went back to submarines. and all of a sudden I wanted to be a frog man.

And I secretly took the test because they would not recommend me to take it. And Dow Buyers, a senior chief out of Team 21, was administering all the tests. He came to Key West. And I ran, I slammed, I did the PT and all that stuff, passed it all. And I said, I'm not supposed to do this.

They would not recommend you. I don't give you shit what. do. I can take you. You want to come? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So order showed up. And the X-O. told me to get off get off the ship. And I went to Frogman training in a Little Creek, Virginia. 148 men in my class, 19 of us graduated. Wow. And tell us what year was that Herschel and what were the UDTs like at that time? 1960. They were great.

They were absolutely great. You know, old school shit is where I'm at. Everything worked just fine. We cruised the world. I was on board ship. We went everywhere. And then Vietnam started, you know, I was wanting to go

to SEAL team. I was three and a half years there. I was a leading petty officer in a platoon. and they wouldn't recommend me. No, we need you here. Well, it was coming up time for me to get out. So I said, fuck it. I'm just going to get, oh, excuse me.

I'm just going to get out. They don't want to let me go to the SEAL team. I'm just going to get out. I've done everything I can do here in the UDTs. And they came over. My buddy was, I went through training with, Roy Dean Matthews come on and said, if you ship over for SEAL team, you can come over.

We need you in the Patoon. We're getting ready to go to Vietnam. I said, I'm in. So I shipped over and went to the field team. Went to Vietnam, got my ass shot off, and I was in Japan, getting repaired. And once I got functional, my doctor, Dr. Budd, I said, I'd like to go back to Vietnam, my opportunity. Well, we don't have any way to send you back.

The land bridge is just the United States. They'll send you back if they want you. if they want to. I said, I don't work for me, Doc. I'm going back to Vietnam. If you won't, fly me back. I'm on a get back. And one of the guys in there,

I've tried to track him down for about 10 years, but he probably died. He was a Marine. Him and I were in the comfort room together. Kind of an end-dock room is where you hang out when you first get there. And somebody gave me, he gave me 20 bucks because he had no money.

Had no clothes, nothing, just in a gown with the back end out. And two Marines. One gave me a pair of pants. One gave me a jumper. Had no ID card. Had a little green ditty bag from Red Cross. And I had no shoes. Couldn't find no boots.

So I went in those little sponge rubber slippers they gave me. Went out to Add Sugge, Japan. There's two Marines there getting ready to fly somewhere down in southern Japan. I asked they take me. told him who I was where I wanted to get. They put me on board, flew me down there. I was just across the water from Okinawa. Two Marines were going to their plane as we got out and we were going into ops.

They said, hey, take this swabby, and he wants to get back to Vietnam. And, of course, Doc, and I got back. It took me 20 hours to get home. And I promised the doc, I wouldn't go out on any ops for 30 days because I was still healing. I went out that night with the platoon. We killed 26, captured 13. We killed them two, but we talked to them first. That's just the way it was with us.

We didn't take prisoners. And, of course, they wouldn't have taken us either, probably if they got after us. But that's my story, and that's how I got going. Herschel, could we back up a little bit and tell us about, like, landing in Vietnam with the SEAL teams and how you got injured? well being me and all was great it really was I loved it

it was a little scary but I I don't do fear I have concerns but we were out every night that's when we went out we didn't go out in the daytime although we did a few times a couple ofbs came up

something come up and the the people in Maxog wanted us go in and take care of something. I don't remember now what it was, but maybe I get my notes out and look

at them. But we were out every night, rooting to looting and shooting, and we worked on hard intel. It was over 24 hours old. We didn't use it. And we turned off a lot of birthdays. This was in the Mekong Delta?

Yes, we worked at Delta. Yeah. Go Kong all over the place, right over to the Cambod border. and that's the way it was. So how did it... The Viet Cong thought we were evil spirits. You know, and I had a fake set of teeth,

monster teeth that I put in over a dentist made them for me. I didn't make for me before I left. And I had an old black wig I wore and had old West Virginia, had all pulled down, old wet, and, you know, just screwed up at and we'd be interrogating these guys and

my officer in charge, Lou Boink, I've been trying to locate him. He retired a captain. He was a Commodore when I was about 30 years in the Navy. And he said, Davis, go put your stuff on. And we're in the hooch. We got this, Charlie. And he's sitting old by the fire.

God, I haven't been, thought about this in years. And I'd walk in and he wouldn't talk. I'd have to admit, they're pretty tough boys. But when they discovered we were evil spirits, they talked their ass off. I'd come in by the door and then he had a little motion in make. And then I'd charge at him, he look and see me. His eyes would be as big as his whole face.

And I'd charge at him and two of my two roommates would grab me. old choreographs. They'd grab and homie and I'd be hissing and snarling and carrying on and, and our interpreter would tell them that if you don't tell us what we want to know, we're going to let the monster eat you. And I'm telling you that guy, and about that point, I would break loose and get a hold of the asshole. And I'm telling you, he'd still.

started throwing at the mouth, his eyes would roll up in the top of his head. You know, I mean, I guess some cissies would probably think we were terrible people, but we didn't, we came home. And, you know, then they'd make me get out, get, get out, get out, get out. And I'd leave and they get him calm down, wipe all the spittling shit off of him. And you talk his ass. I mean, shut up. You're telling the stuff we don't want to know.

What about this? What about that? You know, that's what we did, and that's what we did for six months. Herschel, tell us about the incident where you got injured, though. Well, I was, we were on hard intel. We were going down to Snoopy's nose, which is on the Mekong, and it's just an area. And that's what I call. That's what we call.

That's what it was. And Intel, that's what it was. And there was a sapper team down there shooting in the Dong Tam. which was an army base, about 10, 12 kilometers from where we were holed up in Mito. And we were taking crews, the provincial reconnaissance unit, that we worked with. That was only nine days in country. And this is kind of our first serious good op. We were doing some other stuff just going out and wandering around, basically.

But this was a hard off. And they said, you know, go out. clearing about we were just a blocking force and the Prue's Provincial Reconcement Unit former VC that came over to our side and there were, but you

want to talk about a mercenary, those were Merks and and High, the Pro Chief and his RTO was in this little clearing out in front of the platoon but also

behind where they were hitting. We were hitting a Beacon hospital turning off the doctor and nurses and Bea Collins' birthdays and one of them got loose I heard all the shooting in there yellow tracers going and our red

going and all that happy horse dung and one of them got loose and I would just knelt down there with my stoner and Anahe was about probably five five yards over to my right.

And I was kind of watching the jungle area, which was about four yards in front of me. And it's a little clearing. And I heard this Vietnamese, you know, and I'm going, oh, shit, who the hell is that? And I hollered in Anha, Anha, and I pointed, I said, V.C., B, C, proof, B.C.

You know, what is it? and he was too busy on the radio because everybody was shooting. And the next thing I know, I redirected my attention toward the jungle, and that Charlie stepped out and lit me up. Well, we lit up each other because when I saw him and he was bringing his gun to bear, I fell over backwards with mine and lit him up.

But he lit me up too. So that's how it happened. So you got, you took a few Kalashnikov rounds? I, a lot of them went around me. I went between my legs on each side of my head. I mean,

if that guy would have held that damn thing, steady here to kill me. Yeah, yeah. But he was sweeping. He was just sweeping. I guess he thought he'd go cut the grass too. I don't know. But,

saved my life. I only took a, I considered a minor wound, but it got me metabacked. And I spent a month. the hospital in uh yakucia japan before you were able to make your escape 27 days i could but i he oh please go ahead hirshaw i'm sorry no i just you know i was that stoner hey i had three speeds but it was a very temperamental weapon i kept mine on the selector at half speed about

800 rounds a minute and i gave him as many of that shit would throw until i started to stop shooting and i went you know when he hit him me, I went, oh, God, what the hell was that? It was like lightning struck me. And then I figured out I'm in, Sean. And that's the name of that, too. I know that for a lot of our listeners and viewers probably know a bit about the history of the UDTs and the SEALs.

But, you know, you bring up an interesting point that a lot of, like younger people might not know about the UDTs and their history and then the SEALs standing up, I think, like 62. So is that right? And then, and then you went in at 67. So you had the UDTs,

which had this. I went in in 65. Oh, in 66. Okay. Actually, six and six. I was there at 65, just getting ready, but my class didn't start until January,

at 66. Okay. So the seals were still a relatively new thing when you were there, right? Can you talk about what the UDT was, why the seals were stood up, and then sort of the operational difference between the two when they still existed, or the UDT was still there?

For all men were the 21-foot-fathom curve to two miles inland. Okay? That's all we control. That was our area. We did all the hydrographic reconnaissance and welcomed the Marines of shore when they were doing a landing, because we were the first ones in there. and that's pretty much how you need to. We were all jumpers, you know, and all that sort of thing.

And becoming experts with our weapons and stuff, although that took some time. I don't think they took the shooting as serious as I did. And they sent me off to Gunside Training Center and all that stuff. And I really learned all this stuff I needed to know from Colonel Cooper. And I brought it right back. and we did two months of the desert every year where we trained in Nileland Desert and trained everybody the way I was trained.

And we became the best shooting team on the West Coast at that time. And I shot all the West Coast ammo up with my boys. And they weren't shooters. We were out all the time shooting. Yeah. I mean, good God, we're gunslingers, for God's sake. If you're not an expert, you're not a team guys.

as far as I was concerned. Yeah. And all my boys bought their own personal weapons, turned them in to the armory, and then they'd check them out when they went. Because I'd shoot 9mm, I carried a 45. But if you can hit them, you don't need 500 rounds in your damn gun,

because, you know, most of the shoot will be, anyway, when I finished with them, they get to be pretty damn good. Yeah. So the UDTs were, like you said, they're there to sort of greet them, to do the beach clearance and, and why was this? Our primary primary was to survey the Marines for the Marines landing.

That's the prime directive right there. Anything else we fell into, well, that will. Yeah. But you came in and a boat, high-speed boat, they cast you off. You were in a line on the beach, the landing beach, you went in, and, you know, every five yards and took soundings. Then you drew up a chart. We all knew how to do that. Any obstacles, all that stuff?

And then we might go back if we had too many obstacles and stuff that would affect the landing craft. We had to go back and put demo on them, blow them up. Herschel, I'm sorry to interrupt. I've got to do an ad read real quick, and then we'll jump back into the interview. Okay. I just want to tell our listeners out there about Legacy. Legacy provides sperm testing and freezing from home, eliminating the need for visits to a doctor or a traditional fertility clinic. You legacy sends you a sample collection kit to your home.

Men produce a semen sample at home and send the kit back within 24 hours. The kit contains transport media that keeps the sperm sample fresh until it arrives at the lab. The sample is analyzed. And then by five industry standard metrics of sperm quality, the same provided by traditional fertility clinics, are securely sent to the customer's phone within 48 hours. And if a customer chooses to freeze their sperm, the sample will be split and securely stored in two locations to protect it from natural disasters. And Legacy has a relationship with the military. Veterans and members of the armed forces have twice the risk of infertility than the general population.

Sperm health can be affected by lifestyle, age, injury, environment, including exposure to toxic chemicals, such as burn pits, radiation, or pollutants. Hundreds of men in high-risk occupations like police, firefighters, and members of the military use Legacy to test and freeze their sperm. This will allow them to produce biological children, even if the unthinkable happens. The military's health care system offers limited options for couples diagnosed with infertility, and no coverage for proactive fertility preservation. Legacy is committed to supporting the military veterans and their family members. Legacy's special relationship with the military includes several participants, such as the Military Family Building Coalition Naval Special Warfare, Operation Baby Foundation, Veterans Advantage, and the Green Beret Foundation.

Legacy's Board of Advisors includes the Honorable Dr. David Shulkin, a board-certified internist and widely respected health care executive who served as the ninth secretary of the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. He says, quote, for men who have served in our recent conflicts, approximately 14 percent experience infertility issues, Legacy can provide help to those who want to preserve their ability to have a family. This is one way we can support and honor our commitment to those who served, end quote. So please go and check them out, folks. You can find them at givelegacy.com. It's givelegacy.com. Okay, Herschel, thank you for standing by.

Yeah, yeah. I'm not going anywhere. So you talk about like the UDT's mission. the seals then were stood up as kind of as part of or an offshoot of UDT. Like they used the guys from UDT. Can you tell us what the purpose of the SEALs was and why it kind of became a whole separate unit? Inland penetration.

Okay. Inland penetration. And we were an offensive unit. We were not defensive. We worked in 14-man platoons. And in Vietnam, unless we are on a, major off where we're hitting a whole bunch of people a squad seven men we by description we would we would engage 50 of the bad guys because usually we we have surprise on our side and most of them

would be gone the first 10 seconds for God's sakes but you know ambushes stuff like that and we worked right in their backyard so they they felt rather secure I guess I don't know what hell they felt they felt pretty bad when we got them. But other than that, that's how it worked, you know. But we were the inland boys and we were very offensive. And, you know, after, after, after you made your escape from Japan and rejoined your unit, you said you kind of went right back out that night with their platoon? I sure did.

They had, they had, what were, savage all my gear. they had all my stuff. I had to go around and get noisy and get my shit back and my gun and all my paraphernalia. And that only took about an hour. It was daytime. They were all right there. So we, but I,

I mean, my hand was very raw as part of the wound. So I got one of my, I had a pair of black gloves and I took one black glove, cut the fingers off, because I lost a couple fingers. And I just got that all sewed up and fixed up. So that protected that part. So I was good to go.

What was the rest of your tour in Vietnam like? Oh, you know, Liberty, going down to the bar right on the water. And, you know, we had different people come in, you know, reporters and stuff kind of shake us down for information and stuff like that. You know, it's, you know, well, we hear you're, you guys collect ears. We don't collect ears. You got to got out on where the hell that shit came from. You got to be a little sick.

You want to be cutting body parts off dead, be it calling and saving them. What the hell for? So we had one guy. I forgot who he was with. But what's that damn outfit that news agency? It's international. It was an American, but, you know, A dried up here, I would imagine.

Looks a lot like an apricot. And an officer we had, they came and visited us. I was telling him about it. The guy thinks we want to see our ears. Oh, man, I got the perfect thing. So we had a can of apricots, you know, all peeled and everything, you know, a little round square things. Dried africats, yeah.

Yeah, he dried out. Yeah, dried out. and he made a necklace out of one with probably 15, 20 years on it. And he gave it to me. And I went down there and I said, okay, okay, okay. You want to see it?

I'm going to show it until you don't touch it. You got it? Oh, God. Show me, David. Show me. And I said, that's what it looks like right there. And I held it up. Then I jerked one off and ate it.

I thought he was never going to stop puking. I think he pews these knots up. You know, But, you know, that's life in the teams. You know, we all harass each other. Yeah, yeah. Everybody's doing funny shit. Yeah, you were in the Rangers.

You do the same damn thing. Yeah, that's how it goes. You know, speck cops. You guys, the main force unit, we're the little piddly boys. So that's the way it works. What was your next stop like in the Navy after that tour in Vietnam? Well, you know, I went back. back to states and then they sent me off to Spanish language school because we needed to go down

to Columbia South America and train the Colombian frogman to be seals. And the first group that went down there got a little cocky, I guess, which narcissism is very prevalent in seal teams. You know, I had a little trouble with that and I had my ways of taking care. care of it, but, you know, mostly the guy's been nowhere, done nothing there. Awful cocky. What are you cocky about? You haven't done damn thing yet, swam out in the ocean.

Woo! How exciting. But, you know, that's, where was I going with it? Down, getting sent down to Columbia to train their frogmen. Oh, yeah, down to Columbia. And I was good. I was down there for almost six months. And with a group of guys, I was the chief then.

and had a master chief in charge, had an officer also, but he wasn't like us. We're getting involved with the guys. We're out doing our thing. Of course, we're training hard, but we were very respectful of them and everything, and we did a good job.

We did a good job. There's only one or two of them boys left, unfortunately. But we went to the point. We financed everything. We really took good care of them. and they didn't have a lot, but they had enough. And that was a six-month tour. You know, it goes so fast when you're having a good time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just does. My life is gone. I'm coming 83, and it's life I woke up, had breakfast, and it's time to die. I mean, it just, it went by so fast. I try to recall stuff, and I'm going, people will bring stuff up, I'll run in somebody. And a lot of the old guys like me are gone.

And, uh, but hers, you remember so and so? Well, spike my memory and, you know, and they get me going. One of, one of the things that I always thought about you whenever we've spoken in the past is that you were somebody

who absolutely loved being a frog man. Like, it was your passion. And I mean, you were there for 30-something years. Obviously, you loved it. I would stay.

I'd still be in the Navy if that had kept me. But after I had 34 years, I had one ammo, gave me my extra four years. He said, will you go to Panama? And during the invasion, I will go to hell if you'll give me more years. I give you four more years. You go down and take that slot. We need you in Panama. And I said, I'm in.

And so. Well, to back up a little bit before Panama, you ended. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right at the end. By, you know, 19, what we're getting to like in the 1970s, mid-1970s, UDT 12 and then UDT 11, SEAL Team 5 into the, into 1980s. What was that part of your career? No, no. I did that.

Two of those are West Coast. I'm on the East Coast. I went to Shield Team 2. Meaning disconnected. What's that mean? We lost your video. We shall have your audio, though. We're back.

We're back. I'll go back. All right. Yeah, please, please continue. What was the next part of your career like? Well, you know, Vietnam, then that's when I went to Columbia. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

It's just working. Yeah, yeah. We can hear you, Herschel. Yeah, we can hear you. Hold on the TV now, but the phone's better. Phone's better. Can you? But Columbia was right after it, you know.

I never got to go back because the war was over. They sent me to South America. And we did the Columbia thing and then came back and went off to HALO school. Oh, God, I just saw doing stuff all the time. Yeah, so, yeah, they kept you busy. What were you doing through like, you know, the mid-1970s to the mid-1980s? What was that part of your career like? Quick.

I was gone most of the years. the time. I did 34 years in the Navy. I did 24 years in foreign countries, mostly toilets, bad places where bad guys are. But my wife was very loyal. We made it 39 years,

and then she just told me, Herschel, you're just an asshole. I said, well, of course I am. What's your point? And you know, I'm I've had it with you. So it was a bummer.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't feel real good about it, but that's the way life is. But we're good buddies now, but she won't remarry me. I tried. I tried. I did, but I take good care of her. She remarried some asshole that was abusive, and he don't know how close he came to getting his birthdays turned off.

but she's a good Catholic girl like I am now I hope and oh dear God Hershal please I said divorce him that and I'll take care of you you don't have to yes I do I cause this I'll take care of you and I do and I have and I got everything set up that when I go and I'll probably go first quadruble bypasses from Agent Orange and all the rest of the bulls. shit's associated with being a military man, but I don't let it get me down. I do what I can, when I can, where I can. So that's good enough for me.

I don't have no fear of death. How in the hell do you do shit like we did if you're afraid of dying? It's true. Yeah. So what a... I had scaredy cats, you know, and say, you know, this isn't for you. You ought to, you know, go drive a milk truck or something because you're, you know, you're too worried about shit

that shouldn't be thinking about. We're deployed. What, uh, what, do you, do you have any recollections about some of those other trips that you made after Vietnam, like Columbia, any other places that you ended up that the Navy sent you? Oh, God, Australia. Mm-hmm. Oh, God, I mean, just think, I've been all over the world.

Australia, Brams. of course England with the SAS. Oh shit. Let me just keep asking me questions. That gets me going. Yeah, I mean, I'm just looking at the resume they sent me. And I mean, maybe it's not right, but it says UDT 12, 1997 and 1981, and then UDT 11, Sealed Team 5,

19881 and 1987. Right, right. And I was a command master chief by then. That's when I went to the East Coast. Okay. Because all the East Coast teams had Master Chiefs, old guys. They're the old guys that were, I'm the new guy. They're the old guys.

And I made Master Chief rather early in my Navy career in 15 years. And kid, I didn't know ship from Chinola, but I was trying to learn. And I just went to the West Coast. I called a guy named Hal Wunners. He was a skipper of Team 12. I said, if you'll make me the command mass chief, I'll come to West Coast. He said, you've got the job. He had, you know, not all men are created equal.

He had a guy that just spent more time in college and other things and wasn't too concerned about getting out running and swimming and doing all the things you need to do. So I got the job. And that was good tour duty. And then I became command mass chief of Naval Special Warfare Group one of all of the SEAL teams. I did that for a couple of years and went to the PI and Korea and Thailand, you know, pick one over there. I've been to all of them.

And just doing team stuff. and that's, you know, what sealed to do just like you guys and the Rangers, what Rangers do. All training, on ops, teaching people. Couldn't speak any of the languages, though. Dear God. And then you said they sent you down to Panama during the invasion?

Yeah, yeah. I went to that, you know, then I went, after an able special warfare group, a new Commodore came, one I liked. the other one sucked me out of the teams. I didn't want to be in, yeah, they didn't want to leave an operational seal team to be a desk jockey

at Naval Special Warfare Group. But he let me do a couple things, but not near enough. And I got my buns out of there because they needed a, where the hell did I go after that? I went to Team 11. Team 11 was, well, it was on its ass.

And, uh, for management and retired captain R.J. Thomas, he was a commander then. He was the ops boss at Naval Special Worker Group. And the Commodore calls me and he goes, I want you to go to Team 11. I want you to be the Master Chief there.

I want you to go with RJ. That's a Commodore. That's not in my career plans. And then he took the Lord's name in vain and Davis. I said, and I seen, I was getting his eye. He was getting fired up, but he was noted for that. I really liked him.

He's gone to. But I said, well, give me 24 hours to think on it, can you? Best damn tour I ever had. My God, I couldn't do anything wrong. Everything was uphill. But that's okay. I fired 20, and we put 20 on the street, and we got a team together.

And then team 11 was really, designated SEAL Team 5 and it just got even better. And after that, when I went on to do other things, and that's when I went to Panama. Herschel, can you talk a little bit about that? Like, what happened at SEAL Team 11? How did it sort of go off the rails? And then what did you in the news, I can sum it up in just a few words. Okay.

Lack of leadership. I had guys. well of course we have a 70% drinking problem in the teams or did in those days there was only 260 of us during vietnam yeah there's over 3,000 now yeah but so you probably got a little riffraff in there we had a little riffraff with 260 but you know it's they were just drugs you know drugs were a lot more prevalent on the west coast than they were on the east coast I guess closer to Mexico, I guess. She had a closer supply line or something. I don't know.

I didn't care, but if you did drugs, you were done in my world. I'd have shot your ass if they'd let me. I have scurber. Can I say, let me execute two or three needs a quarters. We can stop this problem. Oh, dear God. Are you crazy? Well, yeah, why?

You've got to be crazy to do this shit. What did you do? I mean, as far as, like, leadership is, How did you come in and, like, shape things up? I'm a gargoy. That's all. I'm not. I'm a pussy.

But they don't know that. I have a great facade. I didn't have to beat the shit out of anybody, but, you know, I was, I was serious. I was very serious. And I was loud. And they'd come in, and one, I remember, he came in and goes, he had been snorting cocaine. We caught him. I had, we'd have lockdown.

I'd say, the skipper, we need to have one right now. Okay, Davis, we locked the doors, nobody leaves. Docs come in, everybody, pee test, everything, they come back positive. And I see, you're done. Your career's over, buddy.

You're not a frogman anymore. You're nothing. And if I could, I'd shoot your ass. And get out of my fucking office. And you start crying. My wife made me do it. Now I really want your ass out of here. Your wife made you do it

You're shit and then Throw his wife on the loss Yeah Come on You're not a seal You're a fucking pussy But anyway But I'm

You know That's part of leadership You gotta have the gargoy You gotta have the good guy Which I was 99% of the time But that 1% You gotta be an evil son of a bitch And it don't make you feel good

Jack You know, I mean, it's not something you take a lot of pride and, oh, you know, I threw so-and-so out of the parking Navy, you know, I'm not like that. Yeah. I'm going, and I meet these guys now at reunions, and they'll come up, I say, hey, come here. How are you doing? How's it going? Oh, God, it's going great, Mass, Chief. God, I'm surprised you didn't even speak to me.

Why wouldn't I? I just held you accountable for your actions, that's all. And hopefully, obviously, it took hold of you, didn't it? Right, right, right. What are you doing? You know, and I'm very successful. I'm this, I'm that, I'm doing this, I'm married, I got kids, you know. Got their life on track.

Actually, I helped the guy. He probably thought I was fucking him, but I wouldn't. I was holding him accountable for his actions. Yeah, yeah, there has to be some sort of standard. And that's leadership. That's all leadership stuff, you know. But you've got to be the bad guy, you've got to be the good guy. So then you get down to Panama

And do you want to talk a little bit about the Bolivia trip and how that came about in the 90s? Oh, just cause? Well, just cause was Panama but then Bolivia with the Escobar thing. Oh, Pablo. I just missed getting that son of a bitch. We were coming in. And I was in violation of Pasi Kamitatus. and the Manchester Act.

You know, as military, active duty military, I was not allowed to go in the field. But I was with some real goddamn big ball DEA guys. Larry LeBron, he's passed away too. He died of cancer. He passed away. I didn't know that. Say again?

I didn't know Larry passed away. I haven't spoken to him in a few years, obviously. Well, I had been visiting. I mean, I keep. I keep track of my buds. I really do. I'm sorry to hear that. Good time together.

He was in Florida, and Florida's a nice place to go, and I was just, I was visiting somebody, a troop I had that got out of the Navy, sellers. He got married, and his wife didn't want him to have a problem, but he joined the Army, and, oh, he says, so there's a lot of stories, and he was just, he would still be alive today if he'd have stayed in the teams.

He really was. He just passed away, but, you know, and I was close, so I just drove down to Florida and hung out with Larry a little bit. That's, uh, but he asked me one time, well, I was training the Huma Par for him, the, uh, the Colombian police, the, uh, the, uh, the, the, the coyas and the combas. The combas were the Altaquanos or one of the other, I can't remember for sure. And the coyas were in the jungle. And there, and there the two should meet.

So what the DEA did is swap them out. because South America's so corrupt anyway. Good God. It was, and I, and I had, I had two Cabos, I had two Cabos that were just outstanding. I mean, they were, they had a quality of leadership. The corpals. And, and, uh, the damn, uh, officer, you know, he'd been one that got Che Guevara.

And he, God, dang phone. get up. Everybody calls when you're on the phone. But, you know, he was a piece of shit, and he was stealing everything. And we'd go in, we'd hit a hooch looking for druggies. And he'd be taking their chickens

and their meat and all kind of stuff. You know, he's stealing from him. Try to take him aside because the Cobbles were afraid to say anything to him, you know. You know, the South America is the poor and destitute and the ones that got money and stuff. There's no middle class, or the least there wasn't there when I was there.

But I really, I took care of my boys. God dang, they had big balls. And I just took him aside, and I just told him. I said, if you want something, you buy it. You understand me? I will turn your damn birthday, oh, buddy, and I'll leave you in the jungle. Oh, he hated me. I didn't give a shit.

I've been hated before and there's probably a lot of people still hate me but they shouldn't I just held them accountable and the combos man they became really close to me then you did you you did that

of course I did it I'm in charge he's not and they did some outstanding stuff and now there were bonuses that were available and I went to Larry who was the head of the DEA team and I said I want to give bonuses to my two cabos.

Okay, I'll get that set up. And I said, we're going to do it a little different. We do not give the money to the officers to give to the men. Right. They never get it. Really? No, they don't get it. So we will present the money to them up here with no officers around.

All right, Mass Chief, that's what you want to do it. so and then he comes Larry comes to me and he goes will you go on ops with us will I go on on ops with you because how do you do you have a wooden dick hell yeah I'll go on ops with and so I started going on ops I stole my gear and the heloes all my operational battle rattle and away we went and I was on ops with them all the time it was great I mean, good God I trained the boys too

but when we had ops I got on them and we had a detachment we had a detachment a small platoon of SF boys there all the the chief well I'd say the chief

the E7 and the other ranks cool dudes God my flavor but the guy in charge the fucking dickhead and Davis. You know, they couldn't go on ops,

and they didn't. Davis, where were you yesterday? Oh, I just out fooling around. You're going on ops, aren't you? What are you talking about? I can't do that. So he reported me to La Paz, the headquarters, the mill group,

and I get a call. Colonel, what the hell was his name? Colonel Uncle Lumptie Squads wants to see you, David, we're sending a helo for you. Well, it wasn't a heel. It was fixed wing. A cost of 212. So I flew in.

I went up, locked my heels in front of his desk. Matt, Chief. Are you going on offs in violation of posse comit, Taurus, and Manchester? Colonel, do you think I would do that? Hell no, I wouldn't think. Yeah, hell no.

You take three days, have a good time. She'd answer his own question. So I hung out for about three days and, you know, done some kumbia, went to the dance halls and stuff and got my ass back on an airplane, got back down with the boys. Hershey, do you want to tell us the story about how you and Larry almost, you know, crossed paths with Pablo Escobar? Well, we were coming in.

We heard about he was in country because that's where he got a lot of his is powder. And usually we'd burn up the, you know, that's all we did was hit. The drug lapse. Sites where they were cooking, making the shit up and drying it out. And then that's where a lot of that came out of that way, went into Columbia and then went on up to America.

That's where most of it went. And we were, we blow the ops up. And, of course, the, the, umapar, I'd say, okay, now, guys, here's how it works. there's a lot of shift there that you can turn into money or you can keep it so their personal gear and stuff that's yours you get a piece you get a piece you all can't take everything to one guy and I worked it out to where they all got compensated that way and all that stuff and only one time the the druggies were usually boy that whole ass into the jungle

but one of them was one of the hancho's sons and he popped out the jungle with a AR, I guess it was, and he started popping at us. And my two cabos, buddy, they could shoot. They blew that boy into eternity. Bang, bang, bang, took a quarter size, half dollar size, threw his chest out of his spine. That was cool as hell.

I just really, I felt very comfortable out in the bush with those guys. we didn't take on a whole button. The one where you guys did the helicopter assault on Pablo's Finca. Say again. When you guys did the helicopter assault force mission on Pablo's Finca. Yeah, well, you know, the way we would hit Finca is, we hit a lot of Finca's, because we do this group is bad, this group is bad, but, you know, they'd hear the helo's coming, and then they'd haul ass.

So we started doing stuff to where we would go 180 out from there, set them down, and then we patrol in, and then we'd catch them flat-footed. And Pablo's place was way down off one of the canals. And when we went in, it was a hot area. They popped at us, but we lit them up. But he had, when we were coming in, there was a twin-engine airplane, took off the dirt strip. They were climbing out.

as we were coming in and Pablo was in that vehicle. But I saw Pablo dead on the ground where he was in a house down in Bogota. Oh, one of the, one of the dam, God, I can't remember the name of the town he hung out in where his wife was, but we hit that place. We blew his guard away, bodyguard, and then he thought, he, he, he could get away and we got him up on the roof and he fell off and he was dead. You were there in Columbia when that happened? I was right there. I looked at him.

Holy shit. I didn't know that, Herschel. Well, it's no big deal. I mean, he was a dead man. I've seen a lot of them. So walk me through this a little bit. Like, were you there with the, what was the search block, the Colombian unit that found him? Yeah, the Rumapar, the Colombian police. Yeah. Yeah. Coyas.

No, they're combas. We had the combas down in the jungle area and stuff down south. On the, you know, the Altiplano. On the other side is where all the property was. And it was all, you know, pinkas and stuff and crops and cattle and all that stuff. on the eastern side of the Altaplano.

So that's how work. So that was a... Moving all the time, moving all the time, had one other young seal with me, good guy. Can't remember his name. He was an Italian name. But he went on, became an officer. He was a good guy. He was at Pitea when a bunch of seals got blown away.

I was at the funeral for those boys. You know, they they had the group of seals trained for two months for that opt-in. This turd polisher changed everything and put a bunch of green guys in there. And they patrolled in wrong. They did it all wrong and got themselves killed. What mission was that again, Hurrah? Got shot up, got shot up, killed the chief.

It's bad, bad juju. What mission was that? That went bad? Well, there's not so much coordination. It's just their damn movement. Walking up the runway. Oh, yeah. Oh, the invasion.

Yeah. You know, we had houses and all the kind of stuff. You stock. You move around, coming at night, be ready to go in the morning. I mean, come on. Yeah. You know, you know why they took out the guys who had been rehearsing for that and put in like a greener, a newer team that wasn't ready?

I'm sorry. I didn't follow that. Do you know why? Yeah, do you know why they took out the team that had been training for that? And then, like you said, put in a green team. Oh, I have no idea. I have no idea. Yeah.

I'm in the jungle. I have no idea what's going on back in Little Creek. Yeah. You know? Yeah. You know, it's all, it's all officer stuff. You know, sometimes I wonder how they think. Officers and the SEAL teams get a couple of operational tours.

Then their desk job. and, you know, joint staffs, all that stuff, making rank. Yeah. You know, and I never wanted to be one. After that, I just, it's the best thing ever happened to me, flunking advanced thermal. God must have known, and he screwed my brain up, and I couldn't figure that shit out. Yeah, I mean, if you woke up command master chief in the dictionary, I'm pretty sure there's a picture of your face there that accompanies the definition. partner I draw more I draw more water than anybody but the captain and I'm the captain's right hand man his office and my office who are connected by a doorway and you know I'm not trying to brag but I mean if you want to be a command master chief then you you take a handle on things you know on my skipper you get a little pissed at me and go good God Herschel can't you calm down

sir, I never learned how to polish a turd. Davis, go back to your office. I don't want to talk you no more. And you know, I come back and say, you're still mad at me? I'm not mad at you. Where in the hell did you come up with that? Well, you know me, I got all kind of little sayings. So if you want to learn some, I can teach you.

No, no, no, no, no, I don't want to learn any. I'm fine. That is a good step. We're still good buddies. We're still good buddies. Did 30-some-odd years in the Navy, you know, by the, you know, early to mid-1990s, you're getting towards the end of your career and hitting quote-unquote retirement, which you explained to me. 93.

93, they told me away. And you felt that retirement was basically a bunch of bullshit and didn't like it so much. So you went and found other things to do. Can you tell us a little bit about your post-Navy career? Well, you know, I really like guns. So I had retirement, and I worked at gun site for about seven years. Not a lot. I mean, you get a couple of tours, a couple classes a year and stuff.

And then I built a bed and breakfast up there and provided housing for clients. And that's why I lived up there. And then the kids and mom would come up and visit. go down there and visit with them and that had some free time. But that gave me something to do 24-7, maintaining the lodge and training when they

had a class for me and all that sort of thing. That's how it worked. I kept my skills up and I did that for a while and then then then

I got a call one day from a petty officer that was in team five with me. And he had done very well, and he was the president of Blackwater, working for Eric Prince. And we talked. He was good, good friend.

God, I liked that guy. He was squared away. He wasn't one of the narcissist boys. And we were talking on the phone. I said, what hell are you guys doing? I understand you're over in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, all them kidholes. What's going on?

well we're doing blah blah blah blah blah and i went god i'd love to do that son of a bitch mash sheep are you serious are you serious as a heart attack that's how serious i am if i could go and do that i'd do it in a heartbeat all right can you can you come down here and run a class for us uh in in curata well moyak yeah north carolina i live in curratyat i live in curratyat And I said, hell, yeah, I can. And he said, here's what I want you to do. I want you to go over and work in Pakistan. I just wanted the boys.

I wasn't a C-1. I was just one of the boys. And then they called me while I was over there. And he goes, we're opening up a place in Pakistan and where we have predators and stuff. I'm probably talking about shit on to keep them out. Well, we're not doing it anymore. so would you could you go there and take that over how they you know I've done the howdy duty thing so I'll have to find something else anyway I said hell yeah so I just stayed there I didn't

come home most people are coming out for 60 days then they go home and that's about all they could take because of 139 degrees in the desert southern part of Pakistan out of a fresh fucked fox and a forest fire but you know You get used to it. You get used to it. It's dry heat. Whatever the hell that is. It's dry heat.

What did they have, you do in, like, mobile protection details or something? Well, no, we weren't protecting. We were guarding the base. Gotcha. We covered the bench. We had outposts, and then we would make sorties. And that's where Alexander the Great. Yeah, Alex, the Greek, right?

Yeah, Macedonian. He came through and that's where he stopped right there in Pakistan, right there in the Shamsie Valley, and an old fort was just 10 clicks up the road, you know. And when I found that out, I just took one of the trucks. I went up there and checked it out. And it's cool. It's all run down and everything, but just to be there on that thing that old, are you kidding me?

Yeah. You know. But I took the guys obviously. be messy, can we go? Hell yeah, you can go get in Trump. Let's go. When's the watch? You know?

They all, I got them set up to where they did eight-hour watches. So it was, it was good. Initially, when I got there, there was only 11 of us, and I was on the watch bill. I wasn't going to be C-1 and not be on the watch bill when we don't have anybody much. And we worked our ass off 12-hour shifts and got paid a lot, too, though. That's the first time in my life I made any money. Yeah. And so what came after the Pakistan job?

What was the next one for you? Oh, Pakistan. Let me think. Let me think. What the hell were those? Oh, I saw working a police academy up in the DuPage, Illinois. Still do. I teach again in November or January, June, June, June.

Awesome. And so, you know, out on the range. I had a class, classroom where I, uh, my, uh, my, my boss, Mr. King, can you change your language a little bit? You know, you're in the civilian sector. You, uh, some of the things you say are pretty shocking. No shit. Yeah, what kind of pussy's we training?

Yeah, I mean, I'm being, I'm being suspicious. But it's true, though, because as police officers, they're going to be exposed to way harsher language when they're actually out on the job. Well, you know, nowadays they're not. I'll tell you right now, well, I appreciate the famous quote phrase that they used. And when somebody's cussing them, calling them 10 motherfuckers a second, well, I appreciate what you're saying. But couldn't I just get a little cooperation? The son of a bitch, the first motherfucker. But he can't do that.

That's against the law. And I'd be shooting people every day until they got me if I wasn't concerned about my mortal soul. I don't know if you guys are. Yeah, we should mention that you're a reformed man now, Herschel, and that you follow the teachings of Christ. I do. I do. And I follow it good, buddy. I'm on it.

I'm at St. I'm Miss Church. But once in six years, and I tied and I do my thing. I say my prayers, you know, I'm a good Catholic boy. Finally, I started out a good county boy, then the military, he knew. And you don't unburthay people even when they deserve it? No. No, I could, but unfortunately that's murder, and that's a mortal sin.

I try not to commit those anymore. I've done enough. They say the boss is very forgiving. But he's got a lot of forgiving to do for this. I apologize. I apologize every day. You know, the devil made me do that, you know. God, keep that sum of it away from me.

I... That's the way I talk to him. I'm really sure. I talk to him just like I talk to you. I do. You know, and I'm not embarrassed to say that at all. I talk to him just like I talk to you. Only I use very nice language.

I don't use the effort. But my priest told me, he said, you know, dirty words are not a sin, not she. I said, really? Yeah, you got to quit coming to confession with just using impure language. The only reason that becomes a sin is when you call somebody things like that. Well, I don't do that. Well, you're not sinning. They're just English words.

shouldn't use them. Now, don't get me wrong, you shouldn't use them if you don't have to. I can't imagine why you need to, but it's okay. Well, fuck it then, father. I'm going to do it. He goes, dear God in heaven, I've got what to do with you. I said,

that's your job. That's your job. You're being squared away. But, you know, what am I going to do with you, M.S. Chief? Just take the money and help the poor. I'm really curious in terms of, you know, you were there when the SEAL teams were relatively new.

You were there when the UDT teams went away. So you've seen the culture change, if it was a culture change, but you've seen the changes from, you know, underwater demolitions through the SEAL teams and all that. How did you, like when the UDTs went away, did you think that's fine because like the SEALs are doing, No, no, I like being a frogman. I like being a frogman. I did the seal thing. But we took over all the requirements of being UDT in the seal team.

So we added that to. So now we're from 21-fathom curve all the way into the capital. Yeah. You know, it's whatever. So we just took that job. And they call us seals now because that acronym, I guess, is much more important in UDT. my God, you say seal to some people. My God, they go up down on their knees and start playing.

I'm going, what the same hell? And everybody knows about us now. Back when I was there, even the Navy guys didn't know. Yeah. You saw my insignia looks like the big Budweiser label. And what is that? No, it's a seal insignia. What the hell is the seal?

Frogman. Really? Really. that's the biggest damage seen I've ever seen yeah I have to agree with you there whoever designed it was had an ego big one but you know

it's did you just the way it was I was very lucky I've been blessed I have been blessed and I thank the boss quite often for looking after me because I have suffered gunshot wounds

broken this you know what's the hell the chest thing open my chest up I'm running on I used to have fire hoses for blood veins to my heart now I got garden hoses so yeah I've had to slow down a little bit this stroke got me slowed down I had a stroke of September

I'm sorry and my doctor goes well you can't run around like a while man master sheep you're 82 years old So, what am I supposed to stop? You know, it's attitude. I got a good one. Well, slow down. Or you're going to die.

I'm not afraid to die. Boss wants me, I'm out of here. What am I going to do with you? Well, is there a pill I can take? And, yeah, there is a lot of them I take, so I take them. I take them. I've got them all divvied up. I do about three times a day I take some.

Just a damn many. Plus, I take my supplements too. Yeah. Everybody thinks I'm about 65 years old. I said, well, I look 65, I think. I don't think so. I think I look 200 personally. But everybody goes, how old are you, man, see about 65, 6, 86, 82.

Oh, bullshit. I said, well, that's what my credit card says. Anyway. Anyway, that's, that's the way it works I hope I've made sense I'm curious when the UDTs went away

and the SEALs took over that mission you said that you know they had everything from was it the two fathoms or five fathoms do you feel that's 21 fathom curve 21 fathom curve to the well there's no limit yeah

we used to be in UDT limited two miles oh every down and you you wind up farther in than two miles but, you know, you're looking around and so, what are we supposed to do now? Well, let's steal something. Do you feel, because it seems like the seals, because of their mission set, have to maintain a lot of different requirements, right? They have the land warfare.

They have the underway stuff, you know, the ship interdiction stuff, things like that. Do you feel like it's too large an mission set? To ask. No, no, no. Here's how it works. Okay. We used to have two seal teams. But when they became UDT became seals, we have on the West Coast, we have team three, team five, team seven, team, well, team 10, that's a dev group.

And then on the east coast, we've got, oh, God, we've got, you know, kill team two. equal number seal team four seal team eight and there's no and seal team 10 that's where that's that and then out of the west go we got sdb team one sdb team two over here and i think they've moved all them to hawaii so you know we have a lot of teams now and each team has certain areas that they're responsible for okay like my team team five we were the alaska boys we had all the all the cold weather stuff, Canada, and a few green land and blah, blah, blah, and South America. Yeah, South America.

And then, you know, another team's got the Asia area. The world is broken up into different areas, you know. There's a team designated, I think it's Team 3 for the Middle East. but when there's combat going on, when we're at war in that area, all the teams take a turn. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Yeah, it does. So, so there, the teams are able to. Vietnam was Silting 2's, but Siltene 3 was taken off there too. We would relieve them. They would relieve us. Yeah. You know, they didn't get to do it all. Then they couldn't because there wasn't enough of us.

Yeah, I mean, it's incredible when you say there's, only like 260 seals during the Vietnam War. Yeah. That's a really tight-knit crew right there. We were busy. Yeah. And that's great. You'll want to be.

You don't have time to think. How are you feeling that, she? Both hands. What else you got? Any other stories from your contracting years during the War on Terror years that come to mind that you'd like to tell us? Well, you know, that memories come and go. You know, I get to talking to somebody and went, holy shit, I didn't even tell you about this.

So, you know, you just got to prod me with a question, you know. Any time in Iraq or Afghanistan, for instance? Oh, Afghanistan. Well, we were down in the desert. Every now and then we get up to Islamabad to get checked out with a doctor or something or check in with somebody. You know, that was kind of a pleasure trip. And I let him many boys go as wanted to. You know, hey, it's your turn. You want to get up to Islamabad and see what they're doing up there to screw things up? Yeah, yeah, I'd like to, yeah.

You know, and then the DEA head guy come down and, you know, well, you shouldn't be doing. We do what we need to do to get it done. Why are you flying a Jolly Roger? What the hell does a flag matter? The men like it. I like the men to like things. Yeah. You get that flag down.

You know, I mean, where in the hell did you come from? Well, I was in the Marine Corps. I was a private. Yeah, I can imagine. I like Marines, but I don't like you, you know. But he was a pain in the ass and my, my boss there at the compound we were in. He goes, man, see if you shouldn't talk, that's the boss, man. You shouldn't talk to him that way.

He'll fire you. Fuck him. I don't care if he fires me. You know? Tell us somebody's come on down and follow my footprints. Do we have a question? He wouldn't get off the property. He'd be panting into 138 degrees, 139 degrees.

All he'd do is sweat. To help him lose weight. Let me. Yeah, I'm an asshole. I can be an asshole. I really can. But when you're an asshole, I'm an asshole. And I'm a really good asshole.

Had a lot of training. When you get around assholes, you start taking their traits. Well, boy, I'm going to. capture that, because if I might, that might be useful sometimes. Do you want to read off? You know, you've been through the same thing. If you were in the Rangers, you've been through the same shit I've been to. You may

have not been on the same type ops, but you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you've got to be a dick sometimes. Everything, everything in the military boils down to leadership. And look at the shit we got now in D.C. in charge of the military. Some of the sariest son of a bitches you've ever seen. in your life. They fired 200 of the best damn

military leaders, officers and stuff that existed as far as I'm concerned. I'm very military and politicians do not mix. Yeah, I'm going to hit you up. You're on a Republican side

that are pulling the mark and half of them are rhinos and they vote with the Democrats. There's only one good Democrat. That party should go away. There are a lot of them are Marxists, and there's only one good one. That's Machen from West Virginia. He's a Democrat, but I like him.

I like him. And he's left the party and tried trying to start a third party. Kershiel, we have some viewer questions for you that we want to get to. Can you tell me who's asking? Yeah. So, well, sort of. We can tell you what their username is. So our first question is from Pug.

Thank you very much. Mustass origin story, please. Oh, my mustache? 47 years old, probably older than he is. I was the only man in the neighbor with a Hannibalbar mustache, and I was very proud of that, not egotistically, but I always wanted to handlebar mustache. And when we were doing some things where we had to grow beards

this and the other thing, I just grew with a big mustache. Way, way long time ago. 1976. And I got on a cruise after I was at Team 12. I was riding an LSD.

They had a BLT aboard a Italian landing team of Marines. And one of the crew came and said, now she's the Ex-O and White Sea. Thank you. I'll tell you. I'll go out and see. I went up and saw him, locked my heels

and he said, shave that mustache off. It's not regulation. I said, no, sir, I can't do that. What? I had a piece of paper from the Admiral. I said, this is from Admiral Lemoyne. He has requested I grow that mustache and I keep it. He even told me if anybody ever tells me to shave it off,

have them call me. And there's his number. Put your paper away. I'm not calling nobody. I guess you're going to keep your mustache. Somehow I knew that. But I was nice. I was respectful.

I was respectful, but, you know, he was a little bit of an asshole, shave that mustache. Well, you should ask the question, of course. How did you get Admiral Lemoyne to write you papers for a handlebar mustache? How do I? Well, I was a good seal. That's all I think I can tell you.

I was a good seal. And I worked for him, and he liked me, and I damn sure liked him. And he has passed away, too. I went to visit him as he was dying. Done a lot of that. Not happy. Probably can't do it very well anymore. I got a little emotional with him.

I am. Real men cry, too. I get it. Yeah. That's for sure. Robert Devald, thank you very much. did you ever get to work with the Navy's HALF Free Sea Wolves, Huey gunships in Vietnam? Oh, yeah, yeah.

How five boys. I was a recruiter in Utah. I was his own supervisor. I was a tough recruiter in Hawaii taking shore duty. Finally, I had to take a tour of show duty. Wasn't no wars going on, and my skipper called me in. I was one of a guy, we had a ton of chiefs. Everybody in the damn team was the chief.

He said the Navy is kind of. coming after my chiefs, you're going to have to go to the fleet, Master Chief, unless you can find something to do for a couple of years. My wife didn't want me to go to shore duty because I'm always gone, so I'll get the hell out. So I went to shore day and went to recourse's career. I tried that for a year, but that wasn't making my ducky quack. So I went into recruiting, and I recruited in Hawaii. and I recruited damn good because they were always calling me,

can you help us out? We're short if you got some, yeah. That's for our zone. And I had a good chief recruiter, and I had a good zone supervisor and did very well. As a matter of fact, they fired a lot of the recruiters there, and every time they'd fire one, I'd ask for his, area. So I had all the islands and half of Oahu. I didn't have Kauai. And I put a lot of people in the United States Navy. And I was the only recruiter that flew his own airplane. I had a Custna 172. I rented. The Navy paid for it. And I didn't use commercial air. I flew all the outer islands myself and recruited. I had cars there. I'm 89. I'm 89.

Blackwater Z-2010, thank you very much. Did you ever hear about the U.S. Marine conducting black ops on the... Oh, God, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I love the... I got more jar-head buddies that keep up with me than I do seals. I really do. And a lot of seals keep up with me.

But I have the utmost respect for the Marine Corps. I do. And boys, if they're not taking 40% casualties, They don't even want to go. You know? I'm saying, hell, if I get a hang now, we ought to stay here until we get fixed.

Yeah. But that was a good bunch. And the jarheads, if these bastards in D.C. screw everything up and we have to go to war here, Marine Corps will go 100%. So I like that. They're tough boys.

M. Corbyn, thank you very much. How much more effective was the suppresses fire from the stoner 63 versus the chopped RPD 44s now say that again uh so he's asking between the stoner 63

and the chopped rpd 44s how was was it was the suppress a fire better from a stoner are you talking about frogman and 44 and frogman and 63 no he's uh

i think he's talking about nam yeah that that that you You guys had the chopped down RPD machine guns, the Indige. Oh, yeah, well, the UDTs were over there, too. And a lot of times they'd tag them want to tag along, or they'd be going somewhere to do something. They did a lot of demo work. We would go in, hose the boys, and then they'd have bunkers and stuff. The UDTs would come in and blow them all up.

Yeah. So, you know, as far as being operational and taking ops, they weren't doing that that I'm aware of. But they, you know, there was a UDT team around, you know. And, you know, we were always coordinating with them. I mean, the same guys. They're the same people as we are. We just haven't been in the field team. They haven't been in UDT.

We have a different mission. What did you think of, you know, obviously you guys had the stoners and, like, the M16s and the, you know, the carbines. What did you think about the difference between, like, the U.S. NATO weapons versus, like, the RPDs, the RPKs, the AKs. Did you ever like the Soviet-style weapons for anything? I gave a lot of them away. I'm an American.

I like American shit, buddy. I do. I shoot a 45. I carried a stoner in M-60. And, you know, I got a Winchester Model 70 pre-war down there under the bed. I got a 45-70. I got a ton of stuff. And all-American.

I'm an American. I don't need anything. from the foreigners. They don't have anything better than what we got. 45. God's caliber. The AK, the AK is an excellent weapon.

Excellent. But I didn't want to carry it. A lot of the guys did. But I didn't want to carry it. I carried my shit, American stuff. That's what it's for. And if some up,

the stoner was very temperamental, but I'm a gun guy. So I didn't mind. Because when that baby's, started talking. Oh, God, dang. Yes. You started dancing. I just saw something come up from somebody named Hunter Hayes saying, good evening, Herschel. My father worked under you as a contractor in Iraq. I attended the Citadel Military College of South Carolina, and I was wondering if you would be interested in speaking to the SECOC.

I give talks all the time. Be glad to. Just let me know what the topic you want. That's all it takes. And, of course, it's got to fit into my schedule so I can get there. But, yeah, I give talks all the time. I'm flattered when they want me to come give a talk. So, Hunter, you can reach out to us through our email or whatever,

and then we'll pass it on to Herschel. And then John Piero, thank you very much. Herschel, what do you think of all these naval assets? getting blown up by the Ukrainians. Are these ships more vulnerable than they're made out to be? The Ukrainians are, what are they doing? I think he's talking about the Russian ships in the Black Sea that keep getting blown up. Well, you know, Ukraine is former Soviet satellite, and they're all corrupt.

And here are these idiots we have in D.C., sending them tons of money and take it out away. We need to be helping the people here in America. You know, they've destroyed us. Look at it. We're like a third world country now. They're certainly getting there. And all these damn logs are coming in over the damn southern border from everywhere. Ten million now. And that's what their idea is.

They're going to give them all the green card so they'll vote democratically. And then the Republican Party will go away. You know, I mean, they must think we're brain dead. But a lot of people are brain dead that vote for these kind of bastards. They must not read. They don't study. They don't even know what's going. on. Well, I've always been

a Democrat. That guy tell me down to junk when I saw my tritroy. Well, I've always been a Democrat. Well, I've always been a Democrat until my brain developed. And I haven't been one since. Yeah. Do you think that the

Can I answer your question? Well, do you think that the like, are the hits on like Russian ships is that like a typical like maritime or seal-style mission

would the seals ever? Not that I'm not asking if the seals did this because obviously is Ukrainians, but is that a frog-man mission to sort of hit ships while they're at port or in like low, low-tides, things like that?

Yeah, I guess make sure I understand what's talking about. We deploy on ships, but are But would you ever like Like going to destroy enemy ships. Yeah, would you ever, like, you know, use like rebreaters and lip-at-mines?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Zulu-1 Oscars, what it's called. That's a swimmer attack. You know, we use our dreager, breathing device, a German rebreather, where we don't give off bubbles and stuff. You can't go below 25 feet, and you can't over-swimming or you're going to convulsions. But you, yeah, limpet mines and stuff. Yeah, that's part of, I apologize. That's a Unity mission.

Yeah, it's not a seal mission. Do you have any other questions? I got the ones from Patreon. Oh, you got all of them? Okay. Yeah. And somebody just asked, did you ever step on a mine in Vietnam? And if so, did you tell us that?

Yeah, that was the 18th September, 1969. I still have a bad back from that. Yeah, I took a ride. I was very lucky. I was very lucky. I was the 13th man in the patrol, and I stepped on that sandwich, and when it clicked, I knew exactly what I'd done.

I can still remember the pressure, the detonator, the initiator, the detonation, the pressure on my foot, my ankle jam, my knee jam, my hip jam, and I started airborne. I knocked me about somewhere between 10 and 15 feet in the air. Holy shit. And it was a good one. All the frag went to the right. Oh, wow.

And my guardian angel knocked me to the left. Wow. That's insane. Did they give you on mustard stain? Did you get a combat jump for that? Well, I got two Purple Hearts. That was my second one. But one little piece out of that damn booby trap.

I think it was just old. You know, I'd probably been there for a while. Yeah. And that's 13 people. It got a bit fully detonated. It had blown my leg off. Yeah. But one little piece punched through my boot and went right through the edge of my foot.

I bled about, shit, three, four drops of blood maybe or more. And that was it. Wow. And I walked out. They were going to call the Hilo to give me out. I said, I ain't going nowhere. You can take me to the hospital. I'm walking out of here.

That's literally, that is the real life. I don't, I ain't got time to bleed. Yeah. Right? from the predator. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I didn't want to go to no hospitals anymore. Yeah. Whether I'm the only one that's wanting to leave or not, it just don't matter.

Somebody's got to want to. Herschel, man, I really appreciate you spending your Friday evening with us and telling us about your life and your stories. Is there anything through this whole interview, like I failed to ask or that you really want to talk about things? something that you're really passionate about? Oh, I'm passionate about everything. I know you are. I really am. I know you are.

But is there anything about your history that you'd really like to bring up that I didn't ask about? Well, there's probably a lot, but I can't think of it. You know, when you've done so much for so long. Yeah. You know, when people ask me certain things, they trigger me with a word or something, oh, God, yeah, I remember that, you know. But I've been all over the world, everywhere. The only two places I haven't been is India and Russia.

I've been to China. I don't want to go there. I have no need to go there. India is the most populated place in the world, and it's too crowded. You can't move around very good. God. You have people laying around everywhere? I mean, good, God.

You know? So, Hersch, for our younger listeners who may seek to emulate you, day. Can you give us some solid handlebar mustache care tips? Wax tips. Is there a wax or a conditioner that you use? Is it like? No, I'd blow dry mine. Blow dry. You know, yeah, if I'm going somewhere, I'm blue, but I use a little wax. Yeah, if I'm going to be at an area for a while, because it'll groove down a little bit. And I have some

mustache wax, and I'll just tighten up the ends and that'll hold everything. But usually the ends is what falls out. So I just use a little bit of that. But when I'm around here, I yell blow dried a couple times a day with hot water. I'll comb it down with hot water, get it all soap, then I'll curl it with a comb and blow dry it. Is there a wax that you recommend?

No. Hell, I wouldn't know one from another. Well, I'd use duck butter if that's all I can get. I mean, because we're always teasing seals about their hair care regimen, And so I feel as though, like if there's a product that you have that you like, that we should, you know, pay tribute. No, you know, if you want to hang on, but I don't think it's necessary, I can go down and get out of my news gift. Herschel, you mentioned that you're still doing some marksmanship instruction. Is there anything that you want to promote, that you want to tell people about classes that they can sign up for or anything, anywhere you want to tell people to go take a look at?

go to gunside or come to me you know whatever they want to do and if they can get one on one a weekend is like a week's of training I cover a whole week and come to my place stay right here with me we'll do all the table talk stuff and all that kit getting rigged

and all the right things but if you're going to have a gun you've got to learn to shoot I don't care where you go to do it Gun site would be a best place, but that's going to be very dear, very expensive with lodging and all that sort of thing. But that's where I learned, and that's where I taught for seven years. And that's an outstanding place. As a matter of fact, the director there now is an old buddy of mine that I trained a long time ago, police officer.

I think he was a chief in Indianapolis area. And Campbell is his last name. and he runs a show there now. Always want me to come, but I just got other eggs to fly. Yeah. Eggs to cry. Do you have,

do you have, like if people wanted to come train with you, do you have a website up, or how do people find you to do that? Oh, you know, tactical weapons and tactics, weapons and,

weapons and tactics is my, my company. and North American weapons and tactics. And there's really, maybe you can find it on the Internet and stuff, but I don't pursue that activity like I used to. Yeah. I'd still teach.

I got doctors I'd train. I helped start a place called the site in Illinois. I bought the land for a very wealthy guy. He just used it as a personal training area. But I ran schools out of there and all. that stuff. And a former SEAL sniper from Team 1, retired,

runs it now for the owner. And I go out and teach a couple classes there, short ones, a couple days, because I've been training these guys a long time, but they want to get trained every year and get back up to speed.

And that's about all I do. And I work at the police academy. So that's it. And that's very two weeks three times a year for our our listeners out there next uh actually on monday we're going to be back with jonah mendes she was a disguise officer at the cia um has a new memoir out so we'll be back on monday with her um and i'd also take a two seconds to plug our patreon please check it out if you haven't uh you get access to all these episodes ad-free and we

really appreciate you supporting the channel And Herschel was he part of War, Snowcap? Who? Joanna. No, I don't think Jonah was ever with Snowcap. I could be mistaken, though. I mean, I don't know her whole biography. Yeah.

Well, I read white stuff, and that boy was a go-getter. I'm not real sure about the agency anymore. The government has weaponized that against conservatives. I'm a Catholic, I'm a terrorist. I'm a Christian. Christians are terrorists now. Are you a Christian? You're a terrorist.

That's what they're putting the word out now. You know, over half the people in America now do not believe in God. Where in the hell did that come from? I read that. I mean, that's published. Well, you're also a veteran, which also makes you, according to, like, the FBI, more susceptible to extremism. so well you know yeah I'm an extremist because I care about my country it's called patriotism where I said

they call it extremism because they're damn sure not patriots and ain't none of them ever been in harm's way unless they bumped into a hydrant or something with the car yeah I got no time for the cowardly sons of bitches and they are and everybody you think let's see if you've got to calm down they're going to come get you come on 83 years old come on Better bring some good boys with you. Herschel, thank you so much for doing this interview with us tonight. And thanks for sharing with us. It's been a lot of fun.

It's been helpful. It has. It's been amazing. And we deeply appreciate it. And we'd love to have you on again sometime, you know, because we know that we covered the surface. Like, barely scratched the surface with your career and everything like that. I was a blessed man.

I was. I've been very lucky, and I'm blessed. But hey, if you're in New York, if you ever come down in the Outer Banks area, you call me. You've got a place to stay. You'll pay $4,000,000 a week on the Outer Banks. At my place on the island, you'll be free. We'll have a drink. I got a lot of scotch. I don't have no Jap stuff. I'll be there. I got good stuff. Sounds perfect. I'll give you a call when I've coming through town for sure, Herschel. Yeah, bring your buddy too. We'll have a good time. We'll go have some she crab soup. Talk dirty. Hell yeah. That sounds perfect.

All right, guys. We'll see all of you on Monday. Thank you again, Herschel. We'll see everyone then.