The Team House - NEW PODCAST ALERT - EYES ON (MARSOC, ARMY RANGERS, CIA OFFICER) | Ep. 263

Episode Date: February 28, 2024

Andy Milburn former Marine & MARSOC Colonel and Jason Lyons former Marine and CIA Officer join our podcast network for a new show call EYES ON where we talk all things geopolitics & national security.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------To help support the show and for all bonus content including:https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse-AD FREE AUDIO-AD FREE VIDEO-Access to ALL bonus segments with our guestsSubscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouseOr make a one time donation at: ⬇️https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouseTeam House merch: ⬇️https://teespring.com/stores/my-store-10474963Social Media: ⬇️The Team House Instagram:https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_linkThe Team House Twitter:https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePodJack’s Instagram:https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_linkJack’s Twitter:https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21Dave’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/dave_parke?s=21Team House Discord: ⬇️https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6SubReddit: ⬇️https://www.reddit.com/r/TheTeamHouse/Jack Murphy's memoir "Murphy's Law" can be found here:⬇️https://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Law-Journey-Investigative-Journalist/dp/1501191241The Team Room Reading Room (Amazon Affiliate links):⬇️https://jackmurphywrites.com/the-team-room-reading-room/Intro music by https://www.youtube.com/user/RemixSampleWant to sponsor the show?Email: ⬇️[e-mail]#armyrangers #marsoc #ciaBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

Hey guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to talk to you today about a way that you can help support the podcast if you're not already. We would really appreciate it if you guys went and reviewed us on Apple or Spotify. Those reviews really help people find the podcast and help it get recognized. And, you know, if you've been enjoying the show, we really appreciate your support. Another thing that you can do to support the channel is to become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon memberships that start at just $5 a month. And when you sign up, you get access to all of our episodes ad-free. That's the big bonus for that.

I mean, we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for our subscribers. But this is the biggest and best way that you can support the Team House channel and podcast if you'd like to. And we really appreciate that. So go out and check us out at patreon.com slash the team house. Special operations. Covert Ops. Espionage, The Team House, with your host, Jack Murphy and David Park. Hey, everyone, welcome to episode 263 of The Team House.

I'm Jack here with Dave, and we're really happy to have in studio tonight, Jason and Andy. And, I mean, these guys have both been guests or co-hosts or both, actually, on the show before. and tonight we're just getting all together because the two of you have started another show on the channel Eyes On, talking about topical national security events so thank you both of you for making the trip out here Very well thank you for having us man I'm still waiting for the check

Yeah You keep waiting Yeah Yeah YouTube yeah thanks guys but yeah so what is Dimitri what is the intention behind this episode besides the four of us just

bullshitting I mean it's generally that but it's also to like give it a little boost a little bit of a love for the show okay so guys tell us then about about eyes on tell us what you're doing yeah yeah Jason Jason came out with the name by the way which is a spot I did

so basically we just decided it was decided. Look, we want to branch out from Teamhouse, but we had some hard rules. You know, first of all, it was apolitical. You know, we don't care who anybody supports, doesn't support, whatever, as much as possible we try to keep it political. And we try to keep it relevant to things that are going on in the news, like if a certain, if the news cycle is hot, we'll talk about that. But if it's not, you know, we can bring in guests, we can, you know, just basically it's just two you know three guys just talking you know about stuff that's going on and we'll take listeners um watchers uh questions and try to answer those as much as we can and

we just like to have fun yeah now for those of you who have not actually seen uh the issues with jason and andy there are many issues yeah uh and shame on you if you have not watched uh you might be out of the shot there andy i'm not i'm not not sure. No, you're good. That's why Jack was edging me over. Yeah. But can you give us, like, a brief background, your brief background and your brief background so people know, like, who these like two Joes are that are on, you know, talk about. Yeah, my background is very brief. Former Marine Corps. I worked in Special Operator, or Special Operator, hello, in nuclear security for a while on a response team.

While I was doing that, was going to college, married kids, blah, blah, blah, and was recruited to CIA by a cousin of mine. He's retired, long retired now. Did that for almost eight years and left there. And now I'm still in the federal government doing recruiting for naval intelligence. And yeah, doing this, yeah. So did you recruit that kid that was selling, he was giving out for. secrets on Discord?

No, you say it's that false. I'm not saying anything. That wasn't Jason money. No, no, no, no. No, not at all. I mean, my part of it is really just resumes and then basically we'll collect resumes, look through them,

hey, these people are, you know, and send them where they need to go. And send it to the commands, the different commands. You know, when you look at that story, by the way, that that kid fucked up so many people. My security care is still going through the, and I'm like, I don't do this shit.

But when you look at it and you look at the background story, you know, the need to know, every time something goes wrong, not every time, most of this stuff now is need to know. You know, I get it back in the past we had Ames and Pollack and Walker, who did have need to know. But it seems like now it's a, it's not a problem in necessarily them giving people security clearances they shouldn't have. It is definitely a problem in people getting information.

They're having access. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And Andy, what about you? Oh, yeah.

Your background. Guys, this is so strange, yeah. Marine, infantry, Special Operations Officer. Since retiring in 2019, it seems as I've been spending a lot of time with you guys. Yeah. Yeah. So, which is a good thing. Yeah.

And if you're looking for, like, a hint to what our only fans would look like, definitely check out one of Andy's episodes. Yeah. As you guys know, I like to sit in the middle so I do some downhill skiing. There'll be trading cards coming out soon. Awesome. You wouldn't be the only Jack Murphy then that puts things up the cool sheet? Yeah, exactly. Jack, we're going to say, though, having you on, and this isn't me being a sick of fan,

and so they've gone. Yeah, that was really good. It's hearing all the dirt you've been digging up. One of my favorite stories, of course, and we'll get into later, you know, it's still, you know, the, I think we met through the dick pick story. Oh, no, no, that's because you wrote the book and I hit you up on LinkedIn. Oh, is that it? Okay. But yeah, there was a connection.

Yeah, yeah. Well, thank goodness you did. With a dick pick, that's not how you hit him up. Yeah, you sent him one. No. But yeah, no, and, you know, thanks for having me on your guy's show right away. And that actually drove a lot of people, surprisingly, more than we thought to the news outlet that Sean and I are writing. Oh, did it?

Oh, okay. I thought you were about to say. I was very glad to bring my fan base. your show for one day because we saw a blip the jack blip and down but did it really that's yeah yeah no it did it got to put a lot of attention on i saw sean nela was um reposting yeah so i'm glad yeah yeah so well yeah the high side is uh is the outlet and you can subscribe for five bucks a month and uh yeah we got a lot of stuff on there right now special forces classified programs from back in the old days to stuff that's happening today in Gaza.

Excellent. Yeah. Yeah, what did, uh, can you talk a little bit about the Gaza? Would you hear any math? Well, yeah, I mean, it's a little bit dated because things have moved so quickly, but I wrote a piece about how after the October 7th attacks happened, there's a huge J-Soc deployment. Oh, that's right. You talk about it.

Yeah. Um, you're going to ostensibly do hostage rescue missions that they were called upon. Or I mean, they didn't know how bad the war would get either, so they were also prepped for like evacuations, like Neo kind of operations as well. Yeah, that was a, that was a poorly kept secret. Kind of, yeah, well, when that number of C-17s start landing inside, it kind of, yeah. And wasn't there a picture of, didn't a picture?

Oh, yes, the White House published a photo of the guys. They were Delta guys helping with the security piece for Biden's visit. And, you know, the White House. which was fairly innocent that made it, you know, it made it look like that it went very quick. Yeah, yeah, that was probably inadvisable, but

so yeah, no, that was cool. And recently you had Alex Hollings on the show. I was watching that today. I mean, I knew he was a roxner. I had no idea what a roxner he was. Oh, yeah. Until we get it, Jason and I got complaints.

Hey, how come you guys are talking? Yeah. Stop interrupting star. Yeah, Alex is a ton of fun. Dave and I were talking about it. You can hear it in his voice, just how passionate he is about it. And like I said, at the end of it, you're like, wow, when were you a pilot? Never.

You know, he's never a pilot. He just loves this stuff and he knows exactly what he's talking about. And I'm an aviation geek myself, and I feel like ashamed to have a conversation with him because he just knows it all. The cool thing is that, you know, you get your aviation. geeks. In fact, we call them pilots. But then you get guys who really understand how that capability gets integrated

and that's what Alex does. Absolutely. Yeah, he's awesome. And so the idea behind the show is what are you looking to do? One a week, two a week? Where are you at right now? Is there a day or time? Yeah, Wednesday. Dee, when do we release it normally? Consistently, Wednesday, like Wednesday and Saturday.

Like midweek? and weekend. Okay. And so if nothing has really happened, we're not going to just do something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That makes sense. Fortunately or unfortunately, a lot of, a lot of stuff is happening. Yeah. And, yeah. That's, you know,

kind of why I went to Israel was to get material version of those. Researching a book, by the way, which I'll, you know, definitely, definitely, see if I can

plagiarize some of your stories Jack in the book without acknowledging. Sure, yeah, that's what I'm here for. The New York Times does it, so don't go bad. But, you know, it's, in serious, seriousness, you know, the hardest thing is to anticipate when Dee suggested us thinking, oh, man, this is going to be really embarrassing, you know, this is going to be like, you know,

three people watch us. saying and it's going to be but then we started doing it I thought well this is really cool I don't really give a shit if you know as long as Steve wants to do it yeah you know my my friends my friends watch at least they lie to me

but you know I mean the point is hopefully it's reasonably intelligent well-informed conversation we're not just arguing back and forth obviously you know we do some we know something about the topic we do research and the idea is that

representing perspective or perspectives that aren't commonly seen in the media. Right. So, insights, I suppose you call it. Absolutely. Because you've got to always ask yourself, hey, what are we giving that you're not getting from other things? Right. Well, and I think one of the challenges, even when they do have experts on big media productions, it's such a rapid sound bite that a lot of times, even if those people really do have solid expertise,

in that field, which a lot of times they don't. But even when they do, they really can't give any nuanced or background to what they're talking about. They just have to hit the talking points. Absolutely. And the challenge is to do that without

sounding like you're just without talking too, pontificating. So I think it works pretty well. Because Dee jumps in, ask questions. You know, you need a guy who doesn't understand acronyms or the military. Yeah, and he's good at He'll jump in and say

You're saying he's good at not understanding He needs a dumb thing Yes, he plays the ignorant well It's also You guys aren't doing also like the two And three hour marathons We sometimes do on the team house It's like 20, 30, 40 minutes

Yeah, we've got a compliment As in It's going to be different than the team house Right In order to augment it Yeah, well it's like you say It's just like long enough where if you're on a run, you're PT, you know, something like that, you can get it in,

you know, and get your fix and be done. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're at Dave Park on the way to work and you're interested in the things that Dave Park is, you know, a highly intelligent human being, but also, you know, background, similar background, interest in national security. And you've got half an hour, all right? You don't listen to NPR or even the Team House podcast. I'm going to see what's happening in the world. Yeah.

No, and it's good because it really, you know, it brings aside to our show that we don't have. Jack and I both, neither of us really want to do anymore. Like we did when we first started the show. That's what the show was, is we'd get drunk and talk about like free news things. But we didn't do any research. Yeah, but you were brilliant at getting Trump part. Yeah. And another thing.

Yeah. And another thing. Waring your word. Another thing about Taylor Swift. Those days are gone now. Look at us. We come along with. Yeah.

And so, you know, it's good to have that angle, the topical angle. Do you guys find it hard? Because you say it's a political, where I assume like you're not necessarily taking a side based on the political, you know, platform. But so many of current news stories end up political. Yes. So, wait. when I say apolitical, stupid policy is stupid policy. Right.

You know, I mean, what we think, I mean, so criticized. But I, but no one wants, I don't think anyone, we, one thing we don't want to be as an echo chamber. Sure, absolutely. So, for anybody. Let's take, you know, what's going on in Israel right now. Right. I can argue, I think, I think with equal, um, vigor, intellectual acuity,

both sides of the argument, right? but you can't get in those conversations in day to the line because everyone is so I just came back from Israel itself and I know that you know if you want to but at the same time

you do for the sort of person we hope is watching this they want to kind of hear okay what are all the issues right why are for instance and we're not going to go into it here but, you know, 30,000 civilians, you know, in what, how does that happen? We've all been in urban clearing operations, blah, blah, blah.

How did it come to this? How did, you know, what happened there? I mean, you can talk about that in terms, it's tricky, but without getting into the high emotional. If it's relevant to the story, then we're going to bring the politics into it, if it's relevant. But you can pull politics or a politician into anything if you want, you know? Right. Look at trash out on the streets out here, whatever it is. We try to avoid that as much possible.

While at the same time giving listeners what they're asking for. So if they're asking for questions about certain things that might pull us in a certain direction, well, we're going to have to address it. Sure. You know, we have no choice. Sure. Sure. And some of the comments are nice.

I think the very first comment I read, which I'm bad at it, I listen to your, I read your comments, but then again, I don't. The first one was, I think, after our first episode was, oh boy, two grunts talking about the news. Damn. Just where you want to listen to you. Yeah. Yeah.

No, I get it. I mean, the idea behind it isn't, you know, the classic, you know, veteran rant from the front seat of the F-150 with the cell phone. No, you're not going to. No, absolutely not. No. But did we have questions for these guys? Have we gotten any in for, for Andy? or Jason.

No, not and yet. We have some for like eyes on, but it's like pertaining to like actual

geopolitical shit. Do you want to talk about a subject? You want them to hit it up? Give me one second. Okay.

Don't rush me. All right, so yeah, while we're waiting one second, I'll tell you guys, please subscribe to our Patreon.

If you guys subscribe to the Patreon for five bucks a month, you get access to all these episodes ad free. And you support the channel.

We really appreciate It's awesome. The Patreon keeps us going as YouTube is kind of shit in the bed right now. So thank you everyone who subscribes. And if you haven't subscribed to the YouTube channel, which is completely free, cost you nothing, and it just helps us get some more viewers. Jack, while we're waiting for Dee to drag it up, you want me to hit some highlights from my trip? Nightlife? Yeah. No nightlife, no. No, I mean, sadly,

Israel was, that That is the most empty That I've ever seen Ben-Gurian airport, Tel Aviv, you know, it's very, it's sobering in the hotel Where I was staying Was full of evacuees from, you know, from the South. But, you know, just like we've seen here,

I mean, everyone It's certainly pulled the nation. very strongly together but I think as I was talking about a little bit before a lot of a lot of bitterness certainly among military guys feeling that perhaps the IDF had taken its eye off the ball in the last two decades in fact and and just so you know you guys I went out there and just read articles. I was, thank you to everyone who helped out, but I met an extraordinary number of people,

fairly, you know, to include two former National Security Advisor, former cabinet member for Netanyahu, senior military officers. So it wasn't just, you know, talking to guys in bars, which you also get a lot of info from. But bottom line is, I don't want to go on about it. I think the real takeaway is that I just can't see any other future other than a regional war. And I did not say that before going. You know, I was kind of, I'm not familiar with the situation, being there many times.

There's no exit strategy. Well, just, you know, for the benefit of your audience, because I know we're talking about this before, The key issue is the fact that it's not Hamas, it is Hezbollah. And we can have a Hezbollah episode. It won't be this one. But it's a good topic, right? And so Hezbollah, since 2006, is a different organization. And they have, you know, Israelis will tell you 150,000 missiles, of course, about 100,000 of those rockets.

But that doesn't matter, as we are talking about here. when you have a country of 10 million people, more high-rise apartments per square mile than most countries in the Middle East, the nuclear power plant, chemical plant, the handful of the maybe two dozen really accurate long-rangement of Scud twos of the Fado 110s, which can drop, you know,

half a ton of explosives, those things are accurate, and they can take out critical infrastructure, and then just the weight of, those are missiles alone, let alone drones, that's 18, Israelis will tell you this, and I did the math, is true, that's 18 rockets or missiles per square mile, right, and all with sizable warheads. And what they're doing right now is launching this thing, as I've explained, called it Bur Khan, which is like a barrel bomb over the border at Israeli checkpoints. so going up there and seeing all the empty communities and every single one soldiers explaining and they all get it and like this is you know

yeah we're going to war this there's no way this is part of our ethos these that if our sovereignty is violated people are forced out of their homes we we have to correct that and no prime minister of Israel regardless of background it's going to be able to say hey that doesn't Yeah, that's okay. And again, this is what you're being told.

This is not Europe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's no... And it's really interesting. I'll shut up in a moment, but in the war between... First of all, it's not... This isn't a war between Israel, Hamas,

Islam, Hezbollah. It's between, obviously, Israel and Iran. And the Israelis have been... The Israelis have been banging the drum a long time, saying this is an existential threat and existential threat. Now, and I wouldn't, you know, it's certainly a very, it's a very concerning strategic threat because it's not just about his baller's capability, it's about the puppet master. And if you look at the rhetoric all the way through from Khomeini, from Nasrallah, they are, there's no stepping down.

The only time Nasrallah steps down, this is what I was talking about, there's an interesting, kind of a rules of the game, the Israelis will see. And Hezbollah understands this, all right? The fighting on the border, if it's in Shaba farms, the area, when the Israelis pulled out of Lebanon, there's an area called Shaba farms that the Hezbollah decided was still part of Lebanon or should be part of Lebanon. and Syria claimed it's part of Golan Heights.

But anyway, the point is this, that there was some kind of an agreement that what happens there stays there. As long as Israeli outposts on Shaba Farms are the only ones being shot at and the Israelis are returning fire at Hasbola, then that's cool. But if it goes away from Shabah Farms,

that means a red line. And it has. They've been hitting all these settlements. So once that is crossed, it's invasion time unless Nazarala may, a commitment, hey, we're not going to do that anymore, you guys can come back. What are the chances of that? As well, it's in a very strong position. Nasrallah probably does not want to go to war right now, but it may not be his decision. The Israelis, or who knows, maybe the Iranians

decided. Nasrallah doesn't want it because he wants to consolidate his power base in Lebanon before he takes on Israel. And remember what happened in 2006. He lost, yeah, they gained ultimately gained some traction, but he had some problems internally, domestically, because of all the trouble that it caused. The other piece is, and I, you know, I've been aware of this incrementally, I mean, but now the Lebanese government is Hezbollah. You look at their cabinet, they can, in order to make a decision within the cabinet, it's not the president or the prime minister, you know, who are decided based on their religion. The cabinet makes decisions for the government,

and they've got to have a majority vote, and each of the religious, the main, the Shia, Sunni, and Christians, each have a third members of the cabinet. Well, his bollah, and it's got to be unanimous vote. So those bollas got members in the cabinet, they're essentially controlling the Lebanese government. They've got their own community. communications network, now secure.

They've got, you, they've, up in the north where the longer range missiles are, their level of concealment is incredible. I mean, yes, they've always put missiles in, you know, high-rise apartments and things in Beirut, but now they've got like, they've got tunnel system with, you know, a with hydraulic lifts and everything that will pull missiles up and then, I mean, it's like thunderbirds. I mean, I've seen aerial photographs and imagery. The point is that these, you know, it's not going to be something that a 40-mile incursion

is going to be able to stop. And of course, remember in 2006 and indeed back, you know, during the war in Lebanon, they found that incursions couldn't stop the rockets because of, you know, the way LH does them, they set them up. And then a guy, someone else comes along, unarmed, and does a quick touch point. This is exactly what the United States has been trying to stop from happening since all this blew up is to stop it from exploding into a larger regional war.

And I'm coming back very pessimistic. I tell you, and I'm not a chicken little, but I just can't see anything other than. Do you think that all of this has successfully shattered the potential normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia, or is that continuing? Yeah, here's a weird thing. It's kind of a, it's kind of a, not a reversal, but it's different. In 1948, the Arab nations were adamant, even when it came, even when they were on the back foot,

when Israel declared independence, and then you had Syria, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, I mean, converging on Israel, and Jerusalem almost fell. It was a very bloody, bloody war at the birth of Israel. But back then, when the U.S. was trying to get everyone to the negotiation table, even when they knew that they were losing ground, the countries attacking Israel would not recognize the state of Israel. It was known as the entity. In fact, it wasn't until after 73 Saddam,

That was, I believe, you know, the first Arab leader to say the name. Yeah, saying the name. I remember when I was in Syria they'd refer to it as like the Zionist occupational entity. The entity, yeah, Zionist entity. Yeah, anyway, so now, here's my point. Now the Arab nations, because they've grown beyond, they never really give a shit about the Palestinian problem. It was useful. Right.

Right. And now they've grown beyond it. It's great to like, you know, to do a swirly-willy on, on. the Israelis when they're yeah but it's better to make money but it's better to make money so they're like yeah yeah yeah you know there was there was a lot of posturing and everything but now they're saying yeah listen well you know we'll support two-state solution and and um but Israelis 95 percent against it the people you know from from from 82 which was the original incursion into Galilee, right?

Not the original. They've been going on throughout the 70s. But the big one, in 82, Operation Peace for Galilee, a lot of Israelis will point to that and say, that's where we started to go downhill and doctrine, training, and everything. Before that, we had a war fighting military. We had guys who are, you know, that was it. I mean, the household names, you know, Moshi Dian.

I'm not saying their hero. Rose, I mean, Ariel Sharad, Yon-Nat and Yahoo. Yeah. Yeah. So all of these guys, right? And 73 war was their last, they'll say this, a lot of Israeli, that was the last good war in the sense, you know. The one in Lebanon started to see a phenomenon that Israelis hadn't seen before, which was

people refusing to serve in Lebanon. And it got worse. There was a peace movement, growth of the peace movement. all of that went away on 7 October. Sure. But the concern is, and this, you know, this is what I'm researching, that over the previous three, four decades,

not just 10 years, the culture, the readiness of the IDF had gone downhill. And that is such, you know, we can talk about the military here being fucked up, and it doesn't really affect anyone, right? Right. But there, as you know, it's so firmly everyone served in the idea. The generals have, they have tremendous respect among population. So this was doubly a shock because everyone feels horribly let down. Right. Right. Intelligence failure, it wasn't a process.

It wasn't technical ability. They were getting all the indicators. It was confirmation bias. That shit doesn't happen here. It doesn't happen. Not at all. That's why they had 20 soldiers, female soldiers, killed with one weapon between them and a surveillance post just outside the walls of Gaza, right? And there's a lot of anger about that across the board.

So anyway, what is happening, what is going to happen? I'm not predicting. I just feel sadly as though there's really, I can't see any alternative to. to wool. Right. At all. How does, you know,

how does all this fit in with, you know, you have America, you have, you know, Europe, but you also have, like,

the UN, who has come out heavily. And, in fact, you know, you talk about the UNRW, right? Or was UNRW,

the, like, the members of the UN in the educational system that were. Oh, yeah, yeah.

And also, you have the UN, like basically passing all these resolutions against Israel but not saying anything about anything else going on like there's haven't they shot down every ceasefire though

there's I'm not oh I'm not sure I'm just talking about since like October 7th like there's been this very weird well a wineman in the west right about you know where I think America, I think Biden came out strongly for Israel initially, and like he had a solid message.

But that wasn't kind of, that wasn't parroted or supported everywhere that we would. And not that the UN is the West. That's not unusual, right? I mean, you look at the history of the UN and Israel. Yeah, yeah. It's always, it's always been that way. And when resolutions are passed, I forget which one, the one that's, you know, the one that's, said that there can be no militias south of the Latani River, right?

Resolution, someone's going to correct me, 1701, right? The UN doesn't enforce it. They don't have the means to enforce it. And then Nazrallah got Hezbollah reclassified within Lebanese law as, I forget what it was, not a militia. True. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, he, it's not funny.

But Nazrallah, too, I mean, you talk to Israelis. they have tremendous, of course they don't admire him, you know what I mean, he's, but they're tremendous respect for him. You know, I've heard him genius, brilliant, they're unstinting in that. In terms of getting what he wants and what benefits him. And just everything. I mean, they've got their own radio station, they're producing, you know, I've got videos here of them, they'll fire up a Kahn. Yeah, you remember those ridiculous Al-Qaeda videos we used to watch? Yeah. Hasbola has some pretty slick ones. Yeah. I'll show you, show you know, We've got quite a good-looking dude, you know, very kind of almost funny.

Hello, my enemy. I hope you're having a shitty day. Yeah. And it's about to get worse. You know, it's like Western humor. Yeah. And you can't help thinking, even the Israelis are like, hey, check this out. Look.

Yeah. But I mean, so you can imagine the whole of these videos are having among the population in Lebanon. Yeah. Just real quick point on UNRWA. So it's not unusual for UN organizations who get local workers for them to turn out to be bad actors. You know, I mean, that's not really, I don't think even from an Israeli perspective, the biggest issue.

The biggest issue is this, UNRWA in their eyes, has propagated not just the dream of a Palestinian home. That's not the point, but has propagated the hatred. Right. 50% of schools in Gaza are UNRWA. And the Israelis, well, some justification that what is being taught, they're just bringing up kids to be. Oh, yeah.

If you look at the footage from, like, and they're not shy about putting this online. Like, if you look at the footage from some of those schools, it's harrowing. You know, it's how they're, like, raising their children to want to be, you know, immartners and...

But the tough part is there's no alternative to UNRWA. I mean, UNRWA is the government of Gaza. It's not... You know, Hamas made a big deal of providing social services.

And that's the three legs, both Hezma's, that Hamas wanted to have and does have, but Hezbollah is really strong and social, political, by social, it's all the... You remember after 2006, Iran provided 400,000,

million dollars to Hezbollah to help rebuild Lebanon. So Hezbollah came out of the woodwork and now they're the heroes that are rebuilding and they blocked from the Lebanese government from taking a part in that. So it's kind of that Hamas has the same ideals.

But they're not, you know, they do some social stuff but it's just kind of for show it's UNRah who's doing all the work of the government. Right. There's no one else to fill that vacuum. Right. You know, take that space up.

And if that's what's keeping the lights on, if that's what's getting my child fed and educated, well, what am I going to say bad about them? Right. So that's what that, you know, Israel is fighting against, I guess, you know, or up against is that. That how do you convince someone again whose child is being fed and educated and homes are being built? How do you convince them that that's a bad order? organization. Right. Does,

does, Hasbala have a little bit more, like, you know, we look at Hamas and we look at sort of God, but then we look to the north, we look at Hisbalah. Because of the settlement issue, it is,

does, like, Hezbollah have, do they have an easier time with, like, gaining sympathy throughout the world because of the settlements and whatnot? The Palestinians,

The Palestinians do, certainly. You know, you've probably seen the coverage of what's been happening in the West Bank. There's been trouble between settlers and Palestinians. On Hezbollah's side, they have such a hold on the sheer population of Lebanon that it's, I mean, it's just difficult describing. When we talk about our touch point is fighting al-Qaeda, right? Al-Qaeda in Iraq. But clearly it was possible to separate al-Qaeda from the population because it happened. But when you look back, you realize why it happened.

In Hezbollah, they are so, I mean, it's tragic how it happened. The Shia back in the 80s, in fact, when the idea firsts went into level, Lebanon, they protected the Shia against the Palestinians. I mean, there was a lot of trouble then. But gradually, the Iranian influence, Nasrallah took over. Iran was the puppet master behind this that turned Husbala into what it is now. Yeah. Interesting. And then with, you know, if we look at the history of Lebanon,

like the Paris of the Middle East, right, sort of, you know, this idea, you know, this Maronite Christian culture and then slowly, like, lose ground. And now they're, you know, backers of one of the largest terrorist organizations. Is this, do you think this is a model that we have to be concerned about in the future elsewhere in the world? Do you think that it's something that was able to happen just because of Iran, because of the surrounding neighbors. Well, I think the same, I mean, Syria's a mess too, right?

You know what I mean? But you're right. The cause of that mess is the same. Assad would have fallen in 2015. I mean, he was not, he wouldn't have fallen in 2015, but he was on the ropes in 2015 when Hezbollah weighed in heavily and, of course, the Russians came into. But it was Hezbollah that was doing the heaviest.

fighting, not the Russians initially. It was Hosebollah that turned the tide. They did a mass recruitment in Lebanon. They recruited guys. I mean, you know, it's the same as the Rangers. They dropped their standards. They bought in a bunch of guys. No. That's how I got in. No, I mean, they did. They did. So they even distinguished it. You know, the Radawan, I'm going to mispronouncing the name, but the guys, you know, like they're really, you know, good guys. It's, I don't mean that in an ethically good guys. But they're, but they're, you know, They're good soldiers. They call themselves a Radovan.

They tend to be on that border with Israel. And they launched all the kind of the conscripts into Syria. But the problem with that now is they've got a massive, I mean, they've got 30,000 guys with combat experience more so than their IDF counterparts who are pissed off, angry. They've been, you know, they're involved in all kinds of things. So, again, even if you didn't have a drug trade and that. So again, even if you didn't have a.

dynamic of this of the settlements being empty, you've got this dynamic of the returning Hezbollah guys and Nasrallah is trying to figure out what the fuck do I do with all these guys. You know, they would like nothing better than to attack his throne. Sooner or later, the plan is probably, you know, for Iran to tone Osrullah that. The question is what's going to happen before that? And I think going to your question about is this a model that we should be looking at and concerned about. I think if you have a state, a proxy state that's, you know, or state actor that's willing to fill the vacuum wherever that is, whether it's on the border here in Mexico.

You know, with Mexico, cartels do it, you know, Sinaloa's out. Another one comes in. If they're willing to fund that and arm that, then yeah, I think it's absolutely possible. And I think it is something that we, being who we are, need to be ahead of and see it coming and, you know, not have that group think of, you know, that's completely separate. Let's focus over here because that's when it comes up in place. It's where there's South Central America, Southeast Asia, somewhere else. If we see the rumblings of what's happening in the Middle East, that's where we need to, I'm not necessarily saying we need to insert ourselves physically.

Right. But politically, we need to, you know, talk to these, be talking to these governments say, hey, this is what we see on the horizon. Right. You know, you see what's going on in the Middle East. just be on your you know mind your peas and cues and we'll be there just in case you need this you know it's interesting to me because we you know when any of that whether it was the cartels or his blah when any of that did the same thing any of the you know any actors did the same the exact same

activities but they were communists like we were in there right away right like we were concerned about that uh rightfully or wrongfully but but that that was a massive concern when it was against the red scare. Now, because it may not wear the label of communism, you know, because it may be something else or different actors or multiple different actors. I wonder if we don't, we're less willing to, you know, take like the covert action steps and things like that

because, again, we're not fighting against communism now, and it doesn't seem like this global, way that we have to prepare against, but more it's these individual. The Cold War certainly focused policy. Yeah. You know, I mean, it made it easy. You know, everyone could be consistent regardless of whether you're a Democrat or Republican. The policy was containment.

Right. And everyone understood what that meant. And it meant sometimes making partnerships with unsavory countries. Right. But that, because that was the goal. It's like, you know, Kissinger, when he visited Israel in 73 and the middle of the 73 war, and Goldemeyer is like, hey, you've got to help us, or the Jewish state will be gone.

And he said, you know, something I'm paraphrasing, you've got to understand something. I am first an American, secondly, you know, national security advisor, and only third Jewish. And she makes famous comment, yes, but in Hebrew we read left to right, or right to left.

But anyway, but her, but his point was, hey, we can't go to war with Russia. You know, and if you surround the third army, if you remember, Ariel Sharon drove across the canal with like 50 tanks, and they cut off the third. Actually, it turned out to be more a brigade. It was a very costly attack, but they cut off the whole army in the Sinai and it essentially held them hostage.

And Goldemeyer said, hey, 30,000 guys, we will kill them unless we get these, unless our prisoners are released, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, that was when Kissinger... And Kissinger was really worried that that would bring the Russians into the war. That was about the time when we backfilled them, or agreed to backfill their munitions to stop them from using nukes, right? That's right, yeah. Now, the threat of nukes was...

It was Moshe Dianne who had said that, had put the... And he hadn't informed other members of the cabinet. I mean, it was a serious... No, I mean, he had a moment. You know, I mean, he's a hero. I don't if you've seen the movie. Well, they had some moments recently were people and the government

were talking about nuclear weapons. That's right, yeah, yeah. One thing that I realized, and I've realized it before, you know, first time I've been going to Israel since early 80s, but it really struck me this time.

was that they're, you know, everyone there, in the military government, when it comes down to it, survival of the Jewish state is everything. Everything. And I used the term Jewish because that's what they, you know, and someone said to me and I was talking about the hostages, and someone said, me, and you've got to understand what a,

awful dilemma this is for us. On one hand, we have this policy that we will always bring people back. Always. Even if it... I mean, you remember Galil? One guy. Yeah, Julia. I mean, they traded dudes who'd been killing Israelis.

They did a prisoner exchange up north a few years ago where they handed back a Hezbollah guy who had killed a 10-year-old boy, but, you know, pounding his head in with a rifle button. They gave... You know, so they are, bringing them, bringing their own people back is very, very important. But on the other hand, you know, what is explained to me, but in the end, if it's a choice between that and survival of the Jewish state, you know.

I think that came out pretty quickly that they were prioritizing, killing Hamas above recovering hostages. Hostages was like a secondary way down there as far as what their military objectives were. Not that they don't care. No, yeah. Yeah, it's heartbreaking. Yeah, I met into some of the hostage families. But at the back of their mind, I think everyone kind of understands. I mean, at the end of the day, I don't think that Hamas would ever be square about the hostages anyway.

Like, they were always going to be a tool. They were always going to be leverage. And, you know, I mean, it's one of the reasons. why a lot of countries won't negotiate with the kidnappers because it starts to encourage. Well, that's right. Yeah, that's why Hesbola, that's how the 2006 war was kicked off. Hesbola was determined because they had such success

in kidnapping soldiers or families. That's why they kidnapped those two soldiers, which sparked the war, and they didn't, they got the soldiers back, but they were dead, you know. and I think probably that memory is in their mind that we could play for this negotiation game and find out they're all gone and while we're playing this game, Hamas. Do we have questions for these guys? He's like, shut him up. Dee, give us a commercial breakdown.

He's filtering through. We got it, we got it. Love the podcast, jents. What are your thoughts on a long time de facto taboo slash ban in D.C. against the ability to talk about Israel's nuclear arsenal? I mean, I guess he means on the part of the United States government. I mean, because officially, that's like part of the understanding is like they're not going to, Israel is not going to officially acknowledge their nuclear program. Ambiguity. It's deliberate ambiguity. They have allegedly like 400 nuclear weapons.

But yeah, and our government doesn't acknowledge it either. Yeah, yeah. I think politically it was just, if, you know, a political figure put it out there, even suggested that they have them and now puts us as a whole of the United States in a bad position. So it's just easier to just say, just don't talk about it. Yeah, it's also one of those things where, I mean, as you're seeing right now, I mean, nuclear weapons are a deterrent, but they're also completely fucking useless. Yes, absolutely.

They don't do anything for you. Yeah. Yeah, because your adversary has to be convinced that you are going to use them. And then to be a useful deterrent. Right. And the Arabs don't even have the bomb. Yeah. Yeah.

In this situation, they're absolutely useless. Yeah. Next question we have. Is the current situation blowback for the strike on Soleimani? How has Iran's combat experience in Iraq and Syria made Iran a more formidable adversary? experience in Iraq and Syria? Well, I think the scary thing is that Syria has been a battle laboratory for Iran. Yeah, I think more...

Everything from TTPs to development of weapons to training of their guys to... Waging unconventional warfare. Yeah, I think it's more, more... if we're talking experience more than, hey, let's put our physical people on the battlefield. It's more like a science experiment. Let's put all the pieces together, step back and see what works and what doesn't, and then we can move on to the next area. Or that worked, let's do this.

So I think it's lack of a better turn. It's been an immense success for them to see what works and what doesn't. Just throw money and weapons at it and see what happens. But as far as like the being a retaliation for the Soleimani strike, I don't think so. I don't think so. The open question, which I mean, maybe it's known behind closed doors, but did Iran sponsor this attack to upset the normalization of relations with Saudi Arabia? Yeah.

So I would say there's no doubt in that. I mean, I was surprised how much I was shown when I was over there. But clearly, you know, they wanted to, it's not like I'm an animal. influential guy. Hey, look, here's what we have. They've got recordings of Farsi in Gaza before and during the fine. I believe it.

Yeah. Definitely. And they have, when you look at everything, the TTPs they used, when I went up to, they've got a, IDF has a center up north that just focuses in Hosbola.

And they showed me a plan they captured from, Bola around 2003, 2004, and it was for an incursion to Israel using five, you know, different attacks, bases, preceded by rockets. It was almost, I mean, you could have superimposed that plan down into Gaza. And the plan was obviously, at the time, the Israelis said, this is an Iranian plan of sophistication. Sudden upgrade in all their equipment, weapons.

I mean, Hizbola is obviously always has been, but if anyone's not familiar, way ahead of Hamas, right? There are Israeli soldiers now, will tell you, Hizbola, like, the Radwan are far better equipped than the reservists up on the border. Well, if you want to talk about, like, the battlefield laboratory and how maybe to improve TTPs, you saw them using drones to neutralize card positions. It's not that no one else has done that before, but I don't think we've seen. You've got to practice, right? Right. Well, and it's the same as, it's interesting to me because while, while people are correct in saying that, like, Gaza could be desolate. You know, there are these ideas of an open-air prison, but also you had these Hamas guys coming in on parachutes, which they didn't just watch a training video on that.

Like, they had obviously, yeah. They had obviously, yeah, they parliated. You've seen that video with a music festival? Yeah. With the girls are dancing, you see the... Yeah. Yeah. He's coming in.

I mean, it's like a... Unfortunately, I've seen too many of those videos. And the thing is that they obviously trained for this somewhere. Yeah. And, you know, like training paragliding teams to move in in formation in Gaza probably didn't happen. Yeah. Right? No.

So these guys did train somewhere. They received training. somewhere. You're not just making up paragliding techniques on the fly as you go. So these guys were definitely equipped, trained, you know,

and practiced, rehearsed. Yeah. Outside. Play outside of, outside of Gaza. Yeah. And can I jump in as a resident like a dummy? Sure. Uh-huh. I mean, let's not it's terrible what happened on October 7th

and it's terrible what's going on now. I mean, but Israel was asleep at the wheel. Supposedly, like, one of the best militaries, one of the best intelligence apparatuses, and they missed, they dropped the ball,

I dropped the ball is like too nice of a word to say. Yeah. Yeah, let's, yeah, that's good point, Dee. Let's, let's talk about yeah, you know, what, what did happen. So, there's a whole division assigned to Gaza. In fact, it's called the Gaza division, and it's, it's

just outside Gaza, there are three brigades, purposefully kept close together with the headquarters, one of their missions is to react to any problems, all right? For some reason, there was no QRF, none, all right? It was in the SOP, there should have been a QRF, no one can remember when it was last, you know, how it is, right, and so it was Shabbat, it was a holiday, and the bases were, they weren't empty, but everyone was definitely, there was definitely not a QRF, Right, obviously. So they, the, just before the attack, their military intelligence, Shabbat got a very, a very precise warning

about the, that there were infiltrators, they were already through the, blah, blah, and location, everything. And so, it's just this, the intelligence guy sent one, it's like a special forces, and they there's platoon down there, but it was a small group of guys. I don't know how big, but I was told it's less on a platoon. And they got down there like, holy shit. But somehow that word, they weren't, you know, wasn't given to anyone else. Everyone said to me, the part that we cannot answer is why the 12, you know,

depending on the covert's 12, 18, 24 hours before there was a response. Right, right. And the only guys responding were ones and twos and groups of guys were service. I saw him the one guy who said, you know, he's a special forces guy. He said, yeah, two of my buddies are there. We're seeing what's happening. And we're arguing, you know, we're going to get caught up. Why didn't we just grab our weapons and head down?

And he said they were arguing for about 45 minutes. And then they got caught up, you know, and he's like, now I, but when we got caught out, We just sat that. You know, we waited for a day or two, and now I'm thinking maybe we should have just gone. Yeah, gone. Yeah. And even prior to that, though,

because Dee brings up a really good point is, and I don't know how the stories have developed since, because I haven't really been keeping up on it, but there were stories of Intel reports, both local and foreign, coming in, way in advance of this. Yeah, way in advance of this.

that were being, they were being reported. They were being taken by the proper people in the proper way. And they were being reported. But it was like these mid-level officers who were like, no, this is too fanciful. This is like movies, like this would never happen. And so the intel report is hitting this like choke point and going nowhere else.

And I don't know if you had heard something similar or if that's accurate. Exactly. Actually, I spoke to, off the record, obviously, a former officer and their SIG-In unit. It's like called 8200. So, for instance, NSA will say that their SIGN is absolutely, it's a question of scale, but their SIGN is, you know, they're every bit as well-trained, sophisticated. They don't, and they have the tools to perform. But she said an interesting thing.

She said, you know, I think the problem with signals intelligence is we rely on it so much. We've lost our humid skills. And it's become this panacea. And she said, if I could, I would disband the unit. No, I think she's half joking. She said, we don't need an intelligence service. We've got everything an open source. They're telling us what they're doing.

We just didn't want to hear it. It's essentially what she was telling me. I mean, that's happened in the U.S., you know. I mean, Carter, you know, became such a huge believer in the NSA, cut the CIA way down, got rid of a lot of the, like, the old OSS got, like, a lot of that sort of experience. And, you know, and the CIA had to rebuild its human capability after we realized that Sagan wasn't a lot of those cuts were made by Nixon. Oh, were they? Okay. Yeah, because of other, like, political stuff.

Yeah. He saw the CIA is the deep state. Yeah, yeah. But it got carried out during the Carter administration, yeah. Yeah. And we get into this, I think we get into these cycles of, I'm speaking for the U.S. I'm not speaking for the U.S., about the U.S. We get into these almost like a price, like a boxer.

We get into this, we slug it out, Cold War. We slug it out, and then we get into this fog where we're like, you know, between the towards the end of the Cold War and leading up to 9-11, we were in this cold war mentality. just as terrorism was starting to really get its legs underneath it. So then we had to play catch up after 9-11. Then we were full-blown on G-WAT, and we were slugging it out, and then we got into this punch-drunk fog again,

and now we're just playing catch-up with getting back into traditional human and things like that. Of course, there's a place for technology for all of that stuff, but battlefield intelligence from what I have seen and learned, battlefield human is not the same as strategic human. It's not talking to a Chinese asset. You know, talking to a farmer in Kandahar or something like that. It's not the same thing.

And we're still playing ketchup to get back to where we were during the Cold War. And I think we go through those fogs and it's being taken advantage. We make humans so painful too. We really do. Yeah. You've got to do all these steps. And if you haven't gone to that, yeah. Did they take money?

They're not an ass. You know, a couple points. One, our military. the same way, right? We're always training for the last war. You know, and in between the Cold War and the GWAT we had the war on drugs, where that's where all the

because people want the money, right? So they go where the money is good. And, you know, the other interesting is we had Jack Devine on recently and he talked about this and he's been involved in almost every Yeah, that was a good.

Yeah. You know, he's like a legend. and the agency. And one of the things he said is that, you know, he would actually start another career service in the agency and that we should know what's going on in Peru. We should know what's going on. We shouldn't, like after Afghanistan, after we left Afghanistan,

you know, after the Russians were defeated, we didn't have any more presence, resources. Like, we should know what's going on everywhere. as much as we can and we don't. We are a very tunnel visioned and a lot of that is budget, right? A lot of that is we have a certain amount of money

and where does this money go? Where do we put our focus? That's a great point because when you think about it, I mean, Hezbollah is our enemy too. His Bala has a lot of American blood on his hands from the death of Marines in 83. I mean, that was Amal was recent, but that was Hezbollah

all the way through, of course, of what was happening in Iraq. Yep. And His Fala was involved in that. Absolutely. I mean, and yet we haven't made a determined effort to go after them. And it is a global organization. You're tracking in South America, the tri-border region.

Everyone talks about it there. What I didn't realize is there is a big share population. Yeah, massive. Yeah. Which dates from the Lebanese Civil War. Yeah. And that is, you know, whether it's a size of Lebanese population, there is Hizbollah. Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway, I don't mean to make this a Hizbollah show, but it's so great. Yes. Thank you. Question. Not from me, from a viewer. This is Ukraine. The guys mentioned the new Ukrainian sections being about 16 men with half as drone operators.

Do you think this is a fad or a future trend? Oh yeah, you know, I brought that up. I think it's just a recognition of what is important on the modern battlefield, which has always been important. But the tools are there now at the squad to be able to see further out, to get greater standout, and deliver precision fire. And the way that the squad can do it in Ukraine is via drones. Yeah.

You know, and it should be the same here. I mean, I'd like to see the Marine Rifle Squad reconfigured. There have been, going back even like 20 years now, like doctrinal attempts to integrate drones into the squad-sized element. And I haven't gone through a red infantry doctrine right now. I don't know exactly what's in there. I apologize. Normally wait until later at night.

They just put out the new FM on Russian tactics. that I have to thumb through. Awesome. Sorry, man. One thing at a time. Yeah. But, no, I'm just saying that is something that they're thinking about. So I would say future trend.

I definitely. Yeah, I hope so. Honestly, I think it's probably one of the next stages of like vehicle-borne IEDs. Like it's a, it's like drones are a very low cost, you know, and you don't have to find. like the mentally disabled guy or the guy who you can put under duress for his family to like walk or drive an IED into a checkpoint now if you can just fly a drone five feet off the ground you know into a checkpoint like it's going to be a massive problem for asymmetrical

warfare in the future and yeah yeah it's and along that border in this realm and you it's a long border, it's porous. Yeah. There's drones bring a whole new perspective. And now you're combining with missiles, so you make the interception problem for Iron Dome virtually impossible.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, do drones even pop up, like a low-level drone, will it even pop up on the Iron Dome sort of detection? They have targeted, but it's not, there's a number of thing. I don't mean to bore you, but

depending on whether drone's coming in the angle yeah the it's put it this way they they know that the iron dome is going to be overwhelmed very quickly if if his baller really goes at anybody you want to come up Percy up come sit with us yeah there you go this is where he wants to be this is Percy everyone this is this is our our the resident yes our fifth co-host that has intelligent. Talking about precision,

I think I sent you guys the video it was from Ukraine where they had, I guess, Intel on a Russian, like a warehouse, like a storehouse and they had trucks in there and you just watched

from the vantage point of the drone. It just flies, does this little thing and then there's a warehouse goes right into the warehouse and right into the band of a truck. And I was flabbergasted watching it.

The precision of this stuff. It's, And I said when I said, yeah, I said, warfare is just, it's gotten that much scarier. Well, and then if you,

if you watch like the drone shows, the light shows that they do, you know, especially in like large cities in Asia, you know, they do these amazing shows where a swarm of drones will like make a dragon

and fly in the air and stuff like that. So, you know, combining AI with drone swarms is something that's already, have it. And so that dragon could easily be a formation of drones carrying, you know, something with a large enough payload to, you know, to hit a convoy, to hit troops in the open.

And that's a really good point because the main defense against drones is EW. You know, it's not a, I mean, kinetic solutions do it, but they, They're overwhelmed very quickly, and financially, it's a huge disparity. But, you know, with drones now, if you're making them offline, you know, I'm using probably the wrong term, but where they... 3D printing. Yeah. Yeah. And they're, you know, they're reading, what's it called?

Where they read... Like the terrain and... So they're not using GNSS. So his follow is doing that. So the point is, again, you're back to trying to bring them down with kinetic solutions, which is waste of resources. Yeah. Yeah, I think drones and AI, you know, not AI are like SkyNet,

but just basic AI, what is capable of now is, you know, it already is changing the face of warfare. But it will change it even further when people get creative about ways to use it. And I think we're in such a kid, I hate using cliche terms, but connected world, that even that kid in what some would call a shithole, name your country, whatever it is, they still are going to have the information to be able to do these things. And you combine that with, okay, you just flattened my village and killed. my dad and my brothers.

Now I'm taking that knowledge that I gained on the internet, and I'm taking it to the bad guys, you know? So you combine all those things, and it's crazy. Right. You just brought up a really good point. It's just, you know, occurred to me. The problem, our problem is that we mirror image. I think, honestly, a problem the Israelis are having

is that they don't mirror image. They don't imagine, you know, so, hey, we're going to eradicate Hamas, we'll just wipe them off. Well, someone's going to survive. And how do you think they're going to feel? Right. Do you think this problem is going to... Do you really think, you know, you can't eradicate...

We've learned that with the Islamic State. Right. You can't eradicate it. Right. The ideal continues. Right. Right. Yeah, I mean, you have to infect it with MTV and, you know, Air Jordan.

Like, you have to... You have to change the mentality. Give them an alternative. Yeah. You have to give them a positive alternative. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like...

I know what you're saying. No, yeah. But, but, you know, it's like something different, you know. Absolutely. If you're a poor, Shia, or, you know, just impoverished in Lebanon, I'm not going to overstate it because, you know, but the point is, his fault is everything to you. You know, your family, you're getting, you are beholden to them.

And they're not doing it out of the good of their heart. It's the grip that they have on them. community. Right. Any other questions? Yeah. Has Andy ever been approached to be the frontman for a Billy Idol band? That's so flattering.

I really like that. No, I can't sing. What happened to Billy Idol, by the way? Is he still alive? I think he's still rocking. Oh, yeah? No. Dave, I don't know what cologne you have on, but Percy is just all over you.

Yeah. Tony Aiello, thank you very much for the very generous donation. We deeply appreciate it. What do you do for guys who donate? We got them ask a question. Oh, that's cool. But if they don't have a question, you're going to say thank you. Appreciate it, guys.

Thank you for Chad. Columbia and Paiso. It's from Columbia. So what next? What are you going to take the team house to? You're talking about you've achieved a plateau of success, but where to now? aside from Aizan, which clearly has boosted you into superstum. I think we deserve the spot at Chachel.

You want to go back? See if Madam Butterfly is there. You want to go back? No, I have no desire. I went with you like three or four years, right? Remember Madam Butterfly? Yeah, man, I do. I remember her.

What's this? She's a Chinese spy that was there. Yeah. Tell her. This girl. So we were in a hotel lobby, me, Jason. The story always begin well. And another guy I knew.

And then he brought in like maybe three of his friends with the Department of Justice. Who Jason? No. No, a third guy. So we're all hanging out, having drinks in this lobby in Las Vegas. And this woman comes and like sits down with us. I can't know. One of the DOJ guys went and talked with.

She had been sitting down the way a little bit, like literally by herself. And good looking woman and all. And remember these old guys. half and nothing else basically. There are these guys in their 80s walking by, like on their canes. And one of them stopped and said to her, you're beautiful. And she's like, you know, thank you and all. So she's sitting by herself.

So Jack and I are. Where is this, by this? Vegas. Yeah. What are you doing? You were working in Vegas? Yeah. And Jack's like, she's coming down here, guaranteed.

And before he even finished the sentence, one of the other guys invited her down. And so she sat in the middle of us and she's like, you know, where are you from? Blah, blah, blah, this and that. And Jack and I are just like, clear. What, she's here? What clearances? What clearances do you have? We were just...

The DOJ guys were getting sloppy drunk. Like, we've been their badges with her and stuff. Yeah. And yeah, she's like, oh, I'm here for the electronic show. And we're just being loud. We're like, yeah, okay. And so finally, either one of them or her said, hey, let's go back to your hotel. And so she looks at us.

She's like, are you guys coming? We're like, no. And she's trying to convince us her hardest. And... Yeah, she, like, grabbed me by the hand and was, like, rubbing my handle. Oh, you should come with me? Yeah, she'd come with. And we were like, no.

And I said, and I was like, not today, Madam Butterfly, and then it kind of just stuck. And, yeah, so Jack wrote a really nice article about it. Well, she asked me what I do, and I was like, oh, I'm a journalist. And she was like, oh, what kind of stuff do you write about? I was like, I read a lot about Chinese espionage. And she's like, what did she say to that? Nothing.

She just kind of, like, froze up. She didn't ask us to go back to the hotel after that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fang Fang. Yeah, she was wearing just a suit jacket. It was, yes.

With nothing under it. Nothing underneath it. Yeah. Two immaculate torpedoes underneath this bad boy. Clearly bought. Clearly bought. Yeah. Like, definitely advertising.

Absolutely. I think she worked for Disca and she was just testing security. Yeah, exactly. Well, I was a private citizen, so she could have tested me six ways to Sunday. Yeah, but I have no desire to go back on. Or I'm glad we clarify that, Jason. You don't hear of guys being hooked that way, do you? It's normally money, or it's just idiocy like that?

I think with MSS, with Chinese Intel, they just throw everything. Yeah. Because normally the way that would work, if in a perfect situation for them, one or two or one, we go back to the room, things would happen, and in the next room you're being filmed, and then eventually someone comes to you and says, this is what we have. After they've done their research, we know you have.

we know you have a wife and kids. Yeah. The Russians would do that. Like the Russians and the Chinese aren't afraid of that honeypot. I heard a story about a, I think it was a naval officer actually, and they sent a couple prostitutes to his door. And he's like, no, no, thank you, goodbye. And after the second girl and he rejected her,

the third knock comes, they sent a dude. Yep. Yeah. Because they're like, oh, well, what's the, what's the guy? Let's spitball. Yeah. He said Navy guy. Yeah, exactly.

You know, what's interesting, though, you know, talking about AI and drone warfare is what happens when this becomes, you know, because we have like, we already have, like, amazing deep fake technology. Yep. So what happens when they don't even actually need to run a honeypot when they can just deep fake it. Yeah, when you can just deep fake it. Yeah, yeah. And say, we have this. Like Max Blumenthal did to me. Yeah.

Yeah. Somebody's on the extra grind. Yeah, well, you know, it's funny because we talk about your show being... I wasn't worth the honeypot. We talk about your show being apolitical, and we do our best to keep ours apolitical, too. And it's like even though you want to keep it apolitical, like there are topics. Israel and Ukraine are two of those topics. I don't think we should say political. We just don't want it to be...

Not partisan. Yeah, partisan. Not partisan. It has to be political. Otherwise, it sounds interesting. Right, right. Yeah. But there will be people who will make what you say political.

I mean, just talking about Israel, there are very strong political feelings on both sides of this issue. In fact, one of our, this wasn't a paid question, but I noticed that, you know, one of the viewers asked about the lives lost in Gaza. and it's like that that's a very real concern. Absolutely, as it should be. You know, but it's also one of those things where, you know, like during War II, nobody asked about innocent lives loss because there's a recognized war going on, right? And then we have Israel who is facing, or at least from their perspective, is facing what we would term it as an existential threat.

Their ability to exist, you know, with Hamas and his blood and these other actors. And how do they respond in Gaza? Like, how do they, there's loss of civilian life. But can they quit? Can they not do that? Well, it's also, I mean, the IDF's having some command and control issues where they're executing their own people who come out waving a white flag. They're running around. 20%

they estimate 20% blue on blue their casualties. Displaying ladies underwear on their TikTok videos

I mean they're having some pretty like serious internal issues and when you know failures of discipline in their own

ranks and that's another part of the issue yeah you know it's definitely you know one of the

signs when you when you get casualties that high it's often a sign if it's not guys deliberately killing senelians which I don't believe it is it's a sign of lack of training

you know it's sometimes the absence of orders is worse than bad orders that's right yeah especially blue on blue figures like that like that's a training issue now they're learning some you know they're talking to me how they

they worked out how to prevent blue on blue they're learning some hard lessons I'm not listen I'm not making a comment And I'm just saying, for us, that would be a real concern, right? Yes, the calculus is probably different to them because of what I've said. They, you know, the survival of the jurist state is everything to them. And that's not me, you know, making a comment about it.

I'm just saying that is, you've got to understand that is. And my death, your death, his, even Percy, if the state can survive, and we have to die for it, then that's the way it is. Now, we talk that way in the States, so thank you for fighting for my freedom. Right, come on. It's abstract. No one gives a shit. I mean, Afghanistan and Iraq didn't even make the front page most of the time. No one...

Yeah. Dave Pony added a question. Okay. Okay. But I don't have an answer. Okay. Tony Ayo, what do you suggest Israel do at this state? They were attacked in a way that is analogous to our 9-11.

Look how we reacted. How can they stand down while being attacked by Iran's products? It's a great question. Yeah, that's a huge strategic existential question that I hate to say it as a cop-out, but we can't answer that. I don't think Israel can answer that. I don't think they don't either. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You stand down.

Now if you didn't fulfill what you said you were going to do, the eradication. of Hamas and at the same time if they continue it this way now it's in the world's eyes and most of the world's eyes it will have gone beyond the scope of what they set out to do because like I think Jack

said it's you're not killing you could a guy could walk out with a teacher and says I'm the last Hamas boom you pop them and then is it really done though? Right you know so now how far beyond the scope of what your parameters are

are you willing to go? So it's, I think now it's a matter of how can we say, I hate saying safe face because it's more than that. It's like you said, the survival of Jewish state.

How can we quote unquote safe face without going beyond where we have gone right now? You know, because again, Hamas is going to pop up somewhere else,

as Blah is going to at some point see that vacuum and step in. Right. So now it becomes something else and it gets even wider. But I guess, I don't think the crappy answer is, we can't answer that.

Israel can't answer that right now. But I think they need to turn their ears outward a little bit and listen to what the world is saying. Not necessarily do what they're saying, but listen to what they're saying. They've got a strategic communication problem. Yeah, yeah. And because of that, because of that, their real point or their real issue gets drowned in that. So their real point is, their real point is this, Iran is Iran is the enemy. Iran isn't just our enemy.

Iran is an enemy of the free world. And something needs to be done about Iran. And all this other stuff, yeah, then that becomes manageable. But as long as Iran is there, this shit, we can mow the grass all we want. And it's just going to get worse and worse. But they need the U.S. on side. Right? It's interesting to me, sort of the sympathies that Iran gains in the West, and in particular in the U.S., when they have such a tyrannical rule over their own people, like how can anybody look at them with a modicum of sympathy when they enforce these harsh laws for women, when they, you know, like shoot protesters, when they do these things.

And yet people somehow look at Iran as some sort of victim. I think what it looks like, what it seems like to me is that the average American citizen doesn't see themselves as being sympathetic to Iran. They see themselves as being sympathetic to one step down, Palestinian. Right. You know, the victims of Iran's injecting themselves in the situation and Israel and the people in the middle. I don't think they really see themselves as supporting or, you know, sympathizing with Iran, because they don't see Iran. You know, I think that that's being blocked by the poor victims in the middle.

So they just see, you're killing these kids, you're killing these women and children and poor, you know, old people. Doesn't matter who above or below is causing the issue, you know. But now from the, you know, from the Israeli point of view and for those who support Israel, it's up. It goes right past those victims that you're supporting Iran, you're supporting Amman, all those other things. And again, those people are caught in the middle. And I think, and I know I'm probably going to catch hell for it, but I think you can not necessarily be on both sides, but you can have two mindsets. You can support the state of Israel, or I should say the Israeli people, not necessarily their government. and you can feel for the victims in Palestine at the exact same time.

Again, we're going political, but it's just like with politics here in the U.S. People are black or white, one side or the other. When the issues that come into politics, you can be of two mindsets with it. And I think that's where, to go back to what I was saying, the average person doesn't see themselves as being sympathetic to Iran. They see themselves as being sympathetic to the plight, whatever it is, whatever side it is. Right. Right.

Do you think it's sympathy or do you think it's, you know, from a, from governmental perspective, they'd say, hey, this is real politic. We can't, you know, we can't just treat Iran. If we treat Iran as an adversary or as a pariah, then it's going to be. But I think what we miss, and I say this because when I was in, I mean, I had to take it closely. Actually, I've been to Iran. That doesn't make me an expert at all. But the sad thing about that is the people are awesome.

Iranian people are. Right. And they are smart, sophisticated, and super-nigh, I mean, they, you know, I never, and people aren't fighting me in the homes and everything. But the regime, no one can, no one in their right mind presented with the facts can deny that the Iranian regime is focused, not just in the destruction of Israel, but other things that are bad for us too, right? I mean, and they're not going to be deterred from that.

And if you look at the, just what their leadership has been saying all along. I'll give you two quick examples, all right, of the long game with the Iranians play. Do you remember, maybe not, but 1995, Hezbollah blew up a synagogue in Argentina, killed like 80 people, 150 wounded. Well, there was the Argentine especially, there was a long investigation that kept getting derailed. And they finally came up, 2012. The special prosecutor said he was going to announce that the Argentine government had been,

or there had been some involvement with Hezbollah, the Argentine government. This was, this is 2012, as Kirchner's special prosecutor. He was founded. dead the next morning and suicide supposedly. Right, of course. Yeah. And just recently they did another investigation. No, it was murder. But my point is, as

Fala, you know, the continuity of operations, the that did that is the same Hizbollah that came back in 2012. Yeah. He said, oh, we got to set this straight. Another example. Do you remember the Vincennes shot down the Airbus? Rainian Airbus from 1988. Fast forward 20 years in California, the wife of the skipper is badly injured in a car bomb in California

planted by, you know what I mean, obviously the Iranians. Yeah, there was also a bomb put in the minivan of a U.S. Admiral, and it was never officially attributed to Iran. Yeah, this is... Yeah, we don't... This guy, this happened in the 90s. Yeah, and there have been other IEDs found

In Europe also, that have been, we know it came from Iran, but you don't talk about it publicly. There's one other, just example on this. So the drone that hit Tower 22, right? I mean, it's a tangled wet, but first of all, clearly that drone was Iranian, right? But the government never came out and said, hey, we've got pieces, here it is, because they didn't want to be put in the position, I'm sure, of being confronted with, okay, now Iran, yeah, now what do we do, right? Well, why Tower 22?

Tau 22 doesn't do much, but Taui2 supports Al TANF, and Al-Tanth is slap-bang in the middle of one of their land routes. Okay, so the Iranians, one did, there's three potential land routes. There's one up in the north, right, through, you know, the old, autonomous region of Kurdistan. That, I forget why, but that's been blocked to the Iranians. And then they've got the one going through

southern, yeah, mid-Southern Iraq. And anyway. Probably because we're in Derizor. Yeah. But anyway, Altaft is right in the snap in the middle. And so anyone who's been there does tend to wonder, why the fuck are we here?

It's a shithole. But it's an important shithole. And you can put 100 soft dudes there with an indige army and they're doing you know they're more than a speed bump they they are a thorn in the side of the not just the Syrian regime but especially the Iranians but you see what I'm saying so that drone it wasn't accidental that that was where that drone hit and it's not accidental that it's Iranian as much as we want to say oh hey you know this is just all part of the static and the Houthis by the way

launched the drone the hit the lat in southern Israel. And that's a little worrying. Yeah. Yeah. Do you guys feel as though, like with the Houthis, like do you guys feel as though the U.S. has moved away from deterrence? And do you think deterrence is effective or not?

I think deterrence works. I think it just depends on the situation. You know, like we talked about nuclear nukes. Is nuke's going to really deter the Houthis? Probably not. And, you know, we probably wouldn't waste the resource on it. But I think it does. But I think that deterrence only works if you're willing to use it and you use it,

depending on the situation. You know, so you, you know, in the Gulf, like in the 80s, you know, Iran pushed and pushed and pushed. We had our, you know, as we did, we have our battle. groups there and then finally was like you know what screw them take out a bunch of their oil platforms IRGC you know stations stuff like that we showed that we were willing to use our deterrence but we haven't necessarily been willing to do that up to this point and now it's reactive deterrence it's okay they shoot at us let's shoot these things down but now what we're doing

at the cost of you know a couple of F-A18s and some Harriers shooting down some drones you know now we've just, you know, thousands of thousands of dollars to shoot these things down. And is it really a deterrence or is it, let's just keep shooting these things until, you know, the Houthi is saying, let's just keep shooting these things until they run out of missiles. When our own government keeps talking about reestablishing deterrence, like that's the de facto admission that we don't have no, we don't have it. Yeah. So we're not good at deterrence, I think, because we we don't, first of all, it's going to be something that's important, right? You've got to either be taking away or

threatening something that's important to your adversary, number one. Number two, he's got to believe you're going to do it, right? Those two things. And one of those two pieces is often missing, right? Iran, you know, what do we do to deter Iran? You know, I'm not saying, hey, let's go to all-out war with Iran. But you've got to bring, bring, if you want to do anything about the situation in the Middle East right now, you've got to make Iran feel some pain and it's got to be more than sanctions.

and it's not an easy answer I've wrestled with this problem before but that's the bottom line you're not going to deter the fucking hooties for Christ's sake they're having the time of their lives man they're executing the Marine Corps

what's it force 2030 long range missiles they got hold of our doctrine this shit works man and they're making music videos I can't believe in between whistle on I can't believe those guys were, you know,

we're criticizing their commandant. I mean, he was on the money here. Yeah. Without tanks. Yeah. And again, deterrence, Cold War worked. Like, all right, let's go from, you know, the dropping of the atom bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That was deterrence in your face being used.

So the Soviets, you know, Germany, everybody else saw, we have it, we're willing to use it. Right. So that worked. Up until the Soviets detonated theirs. Then it was like, oh, shit, what's next? Then we upped our carrier. I know the bane of your existence. We upped our carrier capabilities.

Andy hates aircraft carriers. Only now. I saw them. We upped our aircraft carrier game, and we were able to show our deterrence and then give examples in Gulf of Cedra where we shot down a couple of things, SU-22s.

They were able to, to see we can use these things and we can pull them right up to your doorstep and if you really want to go at it well now the soviet or the russians have aircraft aircrafts chinese have aircraft india's aircraft so now it's like oh shit what what do we do now and more importantly they've got they've got uh short to ship missiles right exactly exactly now they have hypersonic missiles right we talked about on the show that you know so now it's like um well but we still got nukes you know and i was like who cares you're not going to use them Right.

So what's the next step in deterrence? Right, right. Do you think that, you know, because somebody mentioned Soleimani, do you think that was a good example of deterrence? Do you think it's something that we should have, like, kind of followed up with? Or do you think it sort of was one of those kind of one-off things? I think it was a one-off because I don't think we could have gone any farther. I think we could have.

We tried to. We tried, yeah. Because we tried to take out a bunch of Iranians in Syria and Yemen also at the same time. Yeah, and I think we could, we could still continue to do that, but for how long before it's like, okay, oh well, you know, before the Iranians say, that's fine, what is that? You know, we just lost a general to replace them. Yeah. You know, what's the next step outside of going into Iran and doing something? Right. Which the Israelis have already proven that they don't care about doing, you know? So, but then it becomes, do we get someone else to do it for us? You know, because then, now we're taking a step back in deterrence. We just got someone else to do. it for us. So is it really us? Are we really the deterrent or is it whoever did it? So how do we fight these emerging threats that are willing to, you know, whether it's China or Iran or proxies, you know, is or whomever, who are willing to put a bomb in an animal's wife's car or, you know, do these things? How do we fight that in a country

that for everybody's opinion of the CIA and for the mistakes we've made, we still do have a lot of checks and balances and value freedom and human life and aren't necessarily willing to go to the same lengths that our adversaries are. Is there a way that we sensibly

in a sane manner combat those. I think on a, let's just say from the, you know, on a terrorism scale, I think we have to be willing to do what we're doing, which is, you know, you hit us, we hit you kind of thing. With the caveat that if we hear, we know about it before you do it, we're going to get you wherever you are within reason. Again, I don't know that we're necessarily going to go into Iraq to hit.

We know that there's a cell, Hezbollah, cell, or whoever, training in Iran, I don't know that we're necessarily going to go in there and hit them. Jack will probably know better than I do if we can do something like that. But I think when it comes to state actors, I think we just need to up our human intel game. And while we're working, because none of these things work in a vacuum. So Intel doesn't work without politics, doesn't work without the military, doesn't, all these things have to be in play and in sync. But one of those things, from my understanding, is not broken, but it's still playing catch-up, which is our intel game, our human, you know, those sorts of things.

And when I say human, I'm not talking about, like, that Chinese, you know, lower-level political guy. What's that? Madam Butterfly. Yeah, right. I'm talking about the Madam Butterfly. I'm still wallowing in that story. I'm talking about that Politburo member who can tell us what, gee, or whoever is thinking, you know, so that we can get in their history. that's time-honored tradition human you know that kind of stuff um and once we get that back on track

then we can sync it with politics where the you know um state department can say or the president can say hey listen we know about this we know what's going on here or not necessarily because you know we don't want to give away we know these things but um we know something is cooking you know the next step is military so why don't we figure this out now and i think we've gotten away from that because of GWAT and we can't focus on two things at once. So that's

from my 10 foot level. That's what I think. So go ahead. You made that comment about Soleimani. I wasn't involved in that. I was a civilian. I was retired. But when we were in the military, we all discussed that, right?

So I think decapitation strikes can be useful if they're part of a campaign. In other words, there's a messaging component, there's a lot of other things going on to contain what happens afterwards, to make it a deterrent. But if you just do a one-off and leave it, now you're just telling you, it's a challenge. Ideally, his number two is already working for you. Yeah. Yeah. And often, yeah. And often it's worse. You know what I mean? The Israelis killed the Nazraala Masawi, right? Who's Nazrahi?

his predecessor. So he was, he was, I wouldn't call him moderate, but he wasn't a Nazrallah. He wasn't, he wasn't as, you know, he wasn't quite as wacko in the sense of, but he wasn't nearly, didn't have the stature. The Israelis, well, they, let me just say this, they don't admit to this, but he was killed by a missile fire from an Apache helicopter, you know. and then Nasrallah came in and that was far far worse so whacking people is very satisfying but you've got to

you've got to look at the second or third and you've got to try and mitigate that with again it's like a last thing on this Nazrallah recently I wish I could remember the story but he did something oh I know he fired on Israeli soldiers right

and it was not in the Shabbar Farms. This was before Gaza. He sent a message, and I've got no reason to disbelieve this roundabout that came to the IDF saying, hey, we did this because of that, all right? So this was our response to you.

There's no need for you now to, you broke the rules first. And so there's always this weird kind of game going on. Right, right. Yeah, I think, like, Jack just kind of, said basically what i it's not going to work the one-off is not going to work if you're not before you pickle that uh hellfire off if you don't know who's behind that person that you're targeting and what that person is all about is it is it somebody that we can approach

beforehand before we take out his um boss or her boss um then it's just that it's just a feel good thing it's look what we did you know on the news and you know so politically people can say that they're, you know, their supporters. See, I took this guy out, I took this girl out, whoever it was, but if there's nothing strategic behind it in a long-term plan, it's just gratification. We lost more guys to al-Qaeda after Zikawi was killed. Yeah. Yeah. And then my other question for you two is, you know, in terms of like this new sort of asymmetrical warfare model, like it's one thing to combat Russians and Russian intelligence because they're Caucasian, because they're white, right? How does the U.S. combat the Chinese? How do they combat Iranians,

you know, Hezbollah, you know, Arabs, things like this? When the easiest, like, leverage that we've seen, like, the Chinese use and whatnot is the xenophobic, the racist, rhetoric that you're only targeting people because, you know, because they're Asian, because they're Chinese. So, like, how do the, how does the government combat, that against very effective propaganda campaigns. That's another really good question, David, I'm not just saying that, because I'm not sure, and you guys know better than me, so you tell me,

within the intelligence agency, you know, obviously we've got really talented guys, I'm not sure though we have a pool of guys who really understand the adversary. You know, we have guys who, for instance, I've heard all kinds of experts talk about his, here in the States. I've learned a ton. But what I, but what it doesn't teach you is what a hold that organization has. I mean, it's almost something you, on the population of Lebanon. Why and what a hold and the fact that you cannot separate Lebanon, I mean, from Hezbollah. You just can't unless something, that, that was never fully explained, you know, in all the talks.

or Palestinian or Hamas. What motivates them? What are they going to do next? Their rhetoric has always been, we're going to destroy Israel. Now they tone that down a little bit, but no one said, hey, we're not going to destroy Israel. They've never recanted that. They just might not say it as vocally now for the PR.

They're whispering it. Yeah. I think as far as far as, as the xenophobia and all that stuff is, and the racism and all that stuff is concerned. First and foremost, if the target, if the mission is a Chinese national

or a known Chinese MSS or intelligence person or an African-American Navy, you know, guy or gal who's selling secrets, that's a target, that's a fucking target, plain and simple. So you need to get above the noise of racism and all that other stuff

and go after the target. But I think on the other end of that, once we have a prosecution because especially if it's here in the U.S. and it's against a U.S. citizen, FBI is going to be involved. It's not just us. You know that as well as I. So once a prosecution is made, show the evidence. This is why we went after this person.

So all that noise, external noise, that is being generated by the adversary and stirred up here in the U.S. and getting mouthpieces to up the volume. once all that's over with and a prosecution is made, lay out the evidence, not within reason. Right. You know, without, you know, giving way TTPs, things like that, and say, this is why we went after that person, you know, and it just needs to continue. You can't stop because someone says, it's just like with back in the 80s and 90s, the racial profiling thing with police. Was it a real thing or is it a real thing? Yes, it is.

But people still need to be protected. People, car stops are still going to happen. And raids are still going to happen on homes, or wherever where drugs are, where there's solid intel that those things are there. You have to do those things. You have to do it within the law and reasonably show the evidence of why you did it at the end of it.

So I think that's what it is. I feel as though like presidents now are, like it's very difficult for them to enact measures. Like we saw Trump with his, like, anti-Chinese. espionage. I don't remember the name of the act, but it was labeled as xenophobic. And the thing is, is that and then Biden, like, you know,

canceled it, but then I think restarted it under a different name because it's an effective program, it's a needed program. But I think the challenge is that, you know, like the Chinese in particular are exceptional at propaganda. And they're exceptional at,

you know, knowing the places to poke and how to mess message. And so I feel as though presidents now, and it doesn't matter if it's Trump or Biden or whomever comes next in the next 20 or 30 years, any time they try to start, you know, sort of an anti-terrorism thing. Because, you know, Iranian messaging or Hisbalah messaging, even in Iraq and Afghanistan, like the messaging was very good coming from the bad guys that, oh, the Americans are using human shields. Oh, they're doing this. Oh, they're doing that. You know, and those things when they get caught up in the news cycle,

like it's very hard for any administration now to start an anti-terrorism or anti-espionage thing that targets a non-cagean, like the Russians. Russians are easy to target right now, right? It's a limitation of living in a democracy. Sure, absolutely. But I've seen a reason why the FBI shouldn't have, you know, recruit Chinese Americans who understand the culture, speak language. I absolutely agree with you.

And I think that would be a strength because they really do understand quite a bit. There's so much that we lose when we try and understand another culture. You just can't. You can't unless you can get someone who's grown up on that. I think the challenges, like the FBI, I mean, I think all intelligence services should look at recruiting, you know, more immigrants and more. I think one of the challenges with, in particular, with the CIA, or with the Chinese, is their reach, their intelligence service is so strong and so effective that if a Chinese American has any family in China, that's leverage for the Chinese intelligence. And they're willing to test steps that we're not. Exactly.

Exactly. They're willing to say, hey, I talked to your grandmother last week. Here's a photo of us together. Do we have any final questions for these guys? Let's see here. The ASGs were into Levi's and GNR. Influencing jihadis with Western pop culture needs a rethink. Okay. Interesting.

Abusa F group. And G&R, Guns and Roses. Guns and Roses, yeah. Refer above Muhammad. Savani, refer above. I'm not sure. Do you think that believe there is an impact of inflation on global political instability?

I hope that question wasn't me for me because I'm the last person. I can't even balance my time. Milburn, turn the lights off. You know what? He didn't. Go into the bathroom and use the light in the bathroom. It's on the wall.

Inside the bathroom. You know what? Inside the bathroom. We need to. hire a former first sergeant to follow him right. I know. I know. And do this kind of thing for him.

It's like you're in the club and to turn the lights on and picking you to fuck out. Last call. Then you see what the girl looked at. Oh. Actually, you just need a Lance. You just need a Lance Cooley. He's not even drinking.

You just need a Lance Cooley to follow him around. Like. What the hell is my radio operator? There is a switch in it. There you go. Yeah. I mean, if you guys are asking me to describe or explain quantitative easing and global inflation,

I might be a little out of my wheelhouse. Yeah, I will bankrupt this country in a heartbeat. Turk February, thank you very much. What do you guys think happened to Gareth Williams? Who's that? I don't know who's going to ask, too. Who's that? I don't know.

I'll look it up. Oh, we have, wow, we have quite a few questions. I'll look up Gareth Williams, so you guys aren't seeing the next question. I'm Corbyn, thank you very much. Any thoughts on Iran's embassy, reopening in Saudi Arabia. Ooh, I was going to ask about that.

If Andy had me... I just saw that something, if I'm reading it correctly, that Iran is really cozying up to Saudi Arabia talking about Yemen, as far as Yemen is concerned. I saw something about it, but I honestly don't know the larger, like, politics that went into that. Andy, a question,

what do you make of the Iranians' re-earned? opening their embassy in Saudi Arabia. Well, I think that I... Sorry, Dad. I'm holding it. Okay. So I think that that is simply putting one adversary on the bench.

You know, I mean, neither the Saudis nor the Iranian's heart can really be in this. Right. The depth of the... The soon as Shia split is real. It's like, okay, I'm going to take... I want to neutralize this potential enemy. I think the United States is going to sideline itself by its dithering.

I'm just from that point of view. Let's get the Saudis out of the way as an enemy. And at the same time, drive a wedge between the Saudis and the Israelis. But I don't think Iran cares now. I mean, I think that both Saudi Arabia and Iran are kind of, okay, I really hate this guy, but right now, I mean, this is the pragmatic way to go, and it's certainly for the Saudis. Everyone wants to make money,

and the Iranians want to continue their campaign without having to worry about the Saudis. I mean, so I think it's superficial. It's window dressing. Yeah. It seems to me, I mean, I don't know, obviously, what's going on in any Saudi minds,

but obviously Israel, like, just from a purely religious perspective, right? Israel is obviously kind of an issue, you know, from a religious perspective, you know, but Israel is also not, they've never shown any interest in any type of expansion or world dominance. Whereas you look at Iran, you look at, you know, the Shia versus Sunni split. Iran is not afraid of expansion. They're not afraid of, you know, funding Shia militias and, you know, funding these ideas. I mean, if I were in Saudi, like Iran would always be the more sort of future,

not necessarily an immediate existence. There's no doubt in my mind, Dave, that that's what they're both saying. Yeah. It's like the Kurds and the, you know, it's like the Kurds and the Iraqis. Yeah. Okay, we're going to shell these differences and fight the Islamic State. Yeah. But as soon as it's over, we're back on.

So Gareth Williams was a Welsh mathematician, junior analyst for GCHQ, second of the Secret Intelligence Service, MI6, found dead in suspicious circumstances at a security service safe house flat in Pimlico, London in 2010. The inquest found his death was unnatural and likely to be criminally mediated, and they believed that it was potentially traced to Moscow-based mafia cells. Well, you just answered the question for us. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.

I'm not familiar with it. The answer is Moscow-backed mafia cells. That's interesting. I didn't realize that. Mike Matthews, thank you much. How would the Rangers react to a war with China? I actually know exactly the scenarios that they're not. training for and I don't want to so like some of the stuff in Ukraine has changed I

think or influenced how we look at some of that they're looking at so like our special ops guys in a war with China particularly special ops is like a supporting role like the main effort is like carriers fighters strike groups bombers all the cruise missiles that kind of stuff Rangers would potentially be looking at things like securing high-end sites, like nuclear stuff. Not that stuff that happened in Ukraine where Chernobyl was taken over for a little while. It's not that there's a concern that the Chinese are going to sabotage their own infrastructure. It's more like what if they lose control of this.

The same sort of, we looked at those scenarios with Pakistan and also during the war on terror, like, what if this government destabilizes, what do we do? So some of those scenarios are being looked at. But also, I mean, Rangers specifically are a raid force. And I can, with them, but also other branches of service, naval special warfare looking for jobs. There's a thought that what if there are targets, you know, pretty deep behind enemy lines

that we cannot reach with fighters, bombers, cruise missiles. You might have to have people inserted and do like at this point long-range patrolling like 30 mile road march to a target and hit it. So those are like scenarios that are being looked at, but all of it would be in support of the main effort, which is the conventional military, would be the opposite of the war on terror. That's the, yeah, that's the disconcerting thing about war with China is that, you know, all of us crunchies on it, we're only useful if we are involved,

in the kill chain, right? I mean, if we add value to the kill chain and we can sense out beyond, you know, current platforms and systems, and we placed our guys there that they can do that, and we can bring in long-range precision fires. I think one of the problems comes when special operations starts looking for work. Yeah. That would never happen. Like we look at like, we look at like Red Wings or something. Like when they start looking for work and actively campaigning for things that may not be naturally, you know, like naturally suited for them or even necessary, right? Because they want, you know, again, it's a matter of people want to be involved. It's a matter of funding.

You know, you don't want to be sidelined or irrelevant. And yet special operations are the perfect tool to use in operations or activities short of armed conflict against a country like Iran, right? I mean, that's your main tool. Yes, you have all these other high-end weapons you can use as a deterrent. You know, I'll give you an example. I mean, how do you deter Iran? Well, a combination of things, but you try and go after, you try and undermine the administration, you try and cause economic harm, right? Aside from sanctions, what does Iran have? And what's got gas oil rigs? It's got, you know, know, there are things that special operations potentially could do.

In fact, we've done it before 1988. That would really hurt. Yeah. I mean, so it's not Red Wing something, I know, is it? You're thinking about the Marcus Petrault thing, where an SDV team was used for a recon. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, you guys have to forgive my memory. Shit. Turk February, thank you much. Okay, that was DeGareth Williams. Dana Dawood, thank you very much. Great job. Keep it up. Thanks, Dana. We really appreciate it. Dana, I'm not sure how you pronounce it.

And then, wow, we've got quite a few questions. Andrew Dunbar, hey Andrew. I've seen multiple people on this show say that the country doesn't run a counterpart to the old Soviet sparrow program. How can we fix this? Is the sparrow program the assassination program or the honeypot program? I think the sparrows were... In Russia, it might have been a honeypot program.

program, but sparrows in the Philippines were assassinations. That's what got Mike Rowe. Really? Yeah. Are you kidding me? Yeah. I didn't know that's how they got it. I thought they got him on the way to work.

But it was. But it was. But it was the assassination team on the motorcycle. Oh, okay. I was you're thinking I was thinking honeypot assassination. So, yeah, when he says Soviet Sparrow. Yeah, he's, that's Soviet Sparrow. That's a honeypot.

Yeah. We're never going to do that. No. It just doesn't work more. times than not. Everyone always tells me like we just don't do blackmail because you create a hostile agent. Yeah. It backfires. Yeah. Yeah.

And then Frank Nixon. Thank you very much. Random question. Does anyone on the podcast have any experience we're going to training the Norwegian Soft MJK Navy or FSK Army? I never worked with them but I've spoken to people who I mean, shit, there's a guy, a journal

list that wrote a whole book, a couple books about them that I have over here. He was a good guy. He passed away a few years back. But, yeah, supposedly they're like very professional, have their shit together. And they recently, oh, and I hope I'm not confusing them with Sweden, but I think MJK and FSK may have merged into one organization. I could be mistaken. I might be mixing that up with another Scandinavian country, but, yeah, they're supposed to be very good.

Yeah, I have a good friend who, I think, in Afghanistan, was attached to Norwegian soft and loved it. Like, thought the guys were top-notch. I have a question for Jack. Jack, what do you think about the New York Times article a couple days ago about CIA involvement in Ukraine helping them? I don't know. I didn't read it. Yeah.

How do you feel about, like, first reported by New York Times, those shows? It's brave and impressive, courageous. What is that? They came out some article. They should get an award for it. Yeah. Yeah. Wait.

The New York Times came out an article a couple days ago, maybe Sunday. No, or whatever, a couple days ago talking about CIA helping the Ukrainians ever since 2014 with intelligence and inside of the article that triggered me a little bit was saying it was first reported by New York Times. That's just how they, that's their modus operandi. David Cohn game the okay. Like, make it break this. That and also, I mean, they just hate being scooped and they will never acknowledge anyone else who, you know, any colleagues or any other reporters that may have, like, broken a story that will never acknowledge it. And that's just how it is with them. That's all right.

They've, they've legendized the team house. Dude, I mean, look, at this point, I don't think you could pay me enough money to work there anyway. I mean, they're having scandals like every other week. It's like, it's like seventh group. Whoa. Off the top ropes. That was like, he had a... The ultimate warrior.

Yeah, yeah. The people's elbow. He pulls out the ankle dilland. Yeah, I know. Oh, man. Cool, man. But, I mean, no, it's fun talking to you guys and kind of getting, like, updated on everything you're working on.

Any final thoughts before we wrap up? And if you want to tell us anything about the future of Eyes On and where you guys want to take it? I think having the guests on really helps a lot as far as fleshing out our limited expert opinions. And so I think we're going to do a lot more of that. I personally would like to get out like Andy has and try to travel some places and get some more. insight into things and bring that kind of stuff back. So, yeah. Do you guys ever see, you know, I know you took that trip to Israel.

Do you guys ever foresee yourself like taking trips together and doing like on location reports about on things? That's a great idea. Shacho. Just kidding. You remember back in the day I used to make those trips and come back, sunburned. Yes, you did. Yes. I would love to do.

I would be careful what you wish for. Legit is not massive. He's pulling out his wallet right now. Yeah, it's not massive. If we stay in Airbnb's and travel economy, absolutely. Yeah, we can talk about it. Yeah, every day, a different part of the world.

My father used to say that and it never happened. Yeah, we can talk about it. No, I think that's, Dave, that's actually a really, yeah, I think it's a good idea. I mean, it was just coincident. I mean, I went to his for the, for the book, initial research of the book, but yeah, it certainly helps. I mean, you find things out that you don't, no amount of reading here could have told me what I learned to do.

Sure, sure. If you guys at any point want to have an expert on Aizon and you think I might know somebody Jack's willing to do it. No, no, I will put you in touch with the guy who can talk to you about, you know, soft signals or soft logistics or, you know, whatever the CBRN or whatever the hell it is, I'll put you in touch with the guys. And for everybody listening and watching, you don't even have to subscribe to something new. It's on the team house channel.

So make sure you like and subscribe to the team house. Check out the Patreon. You'll catch eyes on. You'll catch the regularly scheduled programming of the team house. You don't have to do anything else. We've made it as easy as possible. Making it easy. And we'll even bring Percy back.

Yeah. Percy's good way. That was our signal that we've gone over. Yeah. Okay. DeWolds our oyster, Jack, answer your question.

Yep. These wallet is our oyster. Good luck. It's like, and it's like trying to open one, too, Christmas. Yo, what is the giraffe about? I mean,

That was Patton's show, right? J.T. Patton. Yeah, so watch J.T. Patton's show if you want to know what the giraffe is all about. It became a... Yeah. It became a... Yeah, and if you have any... Part of our history.

You know anybody. We're in the market for a baby giraffe, so... Yeah, we'd like to have a baby giraffe here where the dog is. Yes. Just sitting here with us while we're drinking conia. But it has to stay a baby. So we're looking for a miniature giraffe. Genetically modified.

We and Dave are going to get a bunch of, like, gold necklaces and ranclons and rings. Yeah. Awesome. This is why I like this show. Velvet tracks. Thinking mine. Gold, A.K.

And me. Don't forget me. So, guys, join us on Friday. We will be here with Phil Campion, who served in the S-A-S. Good man. Yeah, 5 p.m. Because of the time zone difference. And Phil, I mean, we'll get into it with Phil, but Phil,

was on that Sierra Leone operation they did it I think it was in 1999 um so we'll we'll get in all that stuff with him Phil's awesome yeah yeah I you know I met Phil in person in her Bill oh really we were both coming out of Syria and I met him in her bill and we went to a like it's like a beer garden yeah he was still active duty no no he was a long yeah he was doing a he's doing a special for Channel 4 oh right yeah yeah these gigs are great on they you love to do one of us. You'd ask Phil. All the guys who come out of 2-2-SAS seem to be running some kind of show like that.

There's Who Dare's Wins? Well, the funny thing was they were sending him back into Syria because they wanted a good punch-up for the show. They needed him to go like get close to a firefight. Yeah. I was like, okay, Phil. That's the sort of guidance that you don't really need. Well, yeah, that's also like most networks like, huge lawsuits. Huge lawsuits.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you would never see that from an American news organization. Like, there's even, like, huge issues with taking freelance photography. Yeah, it's nuts. Wow.

Anyway, so that's Friday. Anything else before we roll out of here, guys? Just thank you, guys. Yeah, what a thanks to. We're super happy to have you guys. Oh, and you will be on Eyes on, too. I don't know shit about shit, though. That's the problem.

We'll make something up because you're talking about Dave Puck. If you go shit or Shinola lobby, I... We'll ask you why a former Marine would want to affiliate himself with Rangers and the commercial hit. Isn't that like illegal? Yeah, I was going to say.

I think the more illegal part of it was going from Marine to Navy. Like, had I not been a quarmine, I think I would have been... I would have had to have given up the Globe and Anchor. your glow manker like permanently.

Yeah. All right guys, so we will see you Friday. Thank you, Jason, Andy. Yeah, that's pleasure. And we'll see you next time. Bye, everyone.