The Team House - Retired SMU Operator | Pat McNamara (throwback episode)

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

Original airdate- 01/10/2023Pat McNamara is a retired U.S. Army special operations veteran with decades of experience spanning Cold War Europe, Somalia, and post-9/11 operations, and is widely known for his no-nonsense approach to training and leadership. He now focuses on mentoring, fitness, and mental resilience through teaching and public engagement.Everything Pat Mac here: ⬇️https://linktr.ee/tmacsinc?fbclid=PAAabWZ7z5lo5ydLXbE5PgpjJfoZtdtBPhxvVxFzbot-jObNuTXKMMEtlFvncTrueWerk ⬇️https://truewerk.com/houseuse code "HOUSE" for 15% off!00:00 — Pat McNamara | Special Operations & Life After the Unit06:12 — From Struggle to Discipline: Early Military Lessons12:48 — Selection, Standards & Accountability in Tier-One Units18:53 — Cold War Berlin: Tradecraft, Surveillance & USMLM Missions25:12 — Spying on the Soviet Army in East Germany34:17 — Berlin Wall Falls & End of Cold War Operations36:34 — Somalia, Bosnia & Post-9/11 Reality45:44 — Depression, Isolation & Finding Purpose After Service1:09:57 — Connection Is the Cure: Brotherhood, Discipline & Recovery1:23:54 — Legacy, Teaching the Next Generation & Final ThoughtsBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

The Team House with your hosts, Jack Murphy and David Park. Hey, guys, I'm Jack Murphy here with David Park. This is the Team House. This is episode 180-something. Four. 84. Good call. We're here with our guest tonight, Patrick McNamara.

Pat served in special forces and in an Army special mission unit. And today, he does some coaching through the Pat Mac Keep the Blaze Alive program. We'll talk about that in a little bit. Pat, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us on a Tuesday evening, man. Thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate you allowing me to grace your company and your podcast. Absolutely, man. So hey, we're going to jump right into it, man. I'm going to ask you, what's your origin story? If you're a superhero comic book guy, you know, were you bit by a radioactive spider? Was there some cosmic rays that you got hit with? I mean, what was your origin story like growing up and the sort of pathway that took you towards military service.

Yeah, that's a funny. That's, that's, I like that. I like the way you, um, you, you, you approach that. It's cool. Um, uh, I think it was kind of a slow transition because I was an oddball kid. I was a, I, I'm going to say a gentle kid. You know, I did all a lot of oddball hobbies. I'm an art. I still am, artist. Uh, uh, I'm an avid bird. watcher and so was I back then, which, you know, didn't gain me a lot of popularity. Among a tough kid crowd. The bird watchers didn't have groupies that would show up. Yeah, you didn't get mad girls birdwatcher?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's funny how that works. Apparently chicks don't really dig birdwatchers. It's funny how that works. But, yeah, I mean, just a lot of oddball stuff. I had a metamorphosis, which, you know, so I guess my, my superpower, what'd you call it? What do you? Super hero origin story.

Origins. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was a, what was a metamorphosis of sorts. Having, you know, just being a real gentle kid getting my ass kicked by everybody, bullied by everybody. And one of them was an older brother. My older brother bullied the shit out of me and pretty much tormented me. And I was, I didn't even like being under the same roof as him. And my parents were, they were sort of wise to it, but they didn't know the extent because I wasn't going to rat him out.

Plus, there was threats to me that, you know, if I ratted him out. Snitches get stitches. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he went to prison when I was four the first time he went to prison. I was about 14 years old. And that's when I had like a second chance. That was my first second lease on life. First one.

I'll talk about my second one later. But I had a second lease on life. And I joined a wrestling team at my high school. I sucked bad. I got beat by everybody. I started lifting weights. And you know when you're 14, 15, 16, you're growing. Had a couple really cool mentors that would also teach me to fight and encourage me because they were the ones who said, dude, you got a year and a half, just under two years before your brother gets out, a prison.

What are you going to do? What's your recourse? How are you going to face that freaking monster? Because they all knew. Everybody knew. My parents were in denial. So they helped me out a lot. Then I got good at wrestling and I started getting good grades.

And I loved the, you know, the camaraderie, the team, the team conradery. And the physical turmoil, you know, and the personal gain, you know, the feeling of winning. I loved it. I loved that. So I think that was one of my driving forces is when I graduated high school. I wanted to feel that feeling again. Oh, by the way, when my brother get back from prison, I kicked his ass. Nice.

In front of my parents. Nice. Yep. And did that set up a new relationship between you two just out of curiosity? Like, did it set a boundary? Did you guys have a kumbaya moment after that? No, hell no. I hated his guts till the day he died.

Yep. Overdose. That's definitely probably the best superhero origin we've heard on the show so far about like hitting the gym warden to wrestle and kicking your tormentor's ass that's pretty good yeah yeah yeah um yeah but it really i mean i do owe him right i so i do have to credit him to some degree for being just a total douchebag uh but yep nah we'd never buried the hatchet nope and that wasn't going to happen he never changed never changed he was one of those um you know leeches on society never worked just got handed free shit yeah

Would it take responsibility? Yeah, yeah, yeah, in and out of the prison system forever. Thought he was a tough guy. Covered with jailhouse tasks. Just a real work of, you know, just a real piece. Just a real mixed bag of loose spare parts. But, yeah, so I knew I needed that again, you know, that that camaraderie, that team cohesion, that physical turmoil, winning, winning and losing too, you know, all that stuff.

And my dad was into it that I wanted to join the military. He was into it big time. So he helped me. I did go to the recruiter, the recruiters, because I went to all of them. I did go on my own without him knowing when I was 17. And the Army at the time had the best answer because there was like immediate action. I could go into become an airborne ranger or the SF baby program was a thing at that time here, 1983. And I came back and told my dad, and he said, did you sign anything?

I said, not yet. I want to talk to you. We're going down with the lawyer. Wow. Well, I mean, he knows, he knows, you know, that recruiters can do some slimy shit. Yeah, no, it's great. Yeah. And so he adjusted the paperwork.

The recruiter did. He made some he made some kind of he erased something and penciled something and And I signed up for basically that the the brand new 18 x-ray program which meant I had to go to infantry basic training So at 13 weeks what 12 13 weeks there and then to airborne school and then to the SF course if I made all that stuff and then I get jacked up in airborne school I was all distinguished honor graduate in basic training I go to airborne school and my second jump I'm a freaking tow jumper. Oh my gosh.

All the way across Friar drop so. I'm the second one out, the last one to land. Thankfully it came loose. Yeah, all the way across. What's that a minute and a half drop zone? Oh my God. Pat, for those, for people who don't know what a towed jumper is, can you please tell them and describe your experience as a toad jumper?

Oh, the experience is a dog, man. Well, so when you first learn how to jump, you're jumping static line. So a static line hooks to an inboard cable or to a cable that runs the length of the aircraft. And once you jump out and reach the end of the static line, it deploys your shoot for you. Well, in this particular case, that static line got wrapped under my reserve and around my arm. So I was just outside the door. Thankfully, C-1-3-C-1-40 versus C-141.

I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. But it was bad immediately because this was also tearing my body apart. Right. Because I felt it. I felt it around my body. And I was hitting the plane. Boom, boom, boom, boom. And I visibly saw people going over me right over the top of me.

Oh, my God. And I was just spinning in circles. And all I could vaguely remember, you know, the Jumpmaster briefing about, you know, putting a hand on a helmet and one on the reserve vaguely remember that. But there was no freaking way that was happening. I was, I was in an altered state of mind that was irreparable at that point. Thankfully, it came loose. I hit a few times and it came loose. Now, under canopy, that's when I realized I am jacked up.

I am jacked. I am jacked up. I'm jacked up. There was nothing but moans and groans coming from my body. Just moans and groans. I was just a limp sack of shit underneath a T-10 parachute. Just a limp, limp sack of shit. I hit the deck. I land on my same injured side. And at the time, I didn't know, but I had a lot of injuries, including broken ribs and concussion, dislocated shoulder.

And I fall on that side. So there was no PLF, you know, parachute landing fall. Right. I had two points of contact feet and my injured side. And then to add insult to injury, a gust of wind comes. And now I'm getting drug across Ryder drop zone. And I'm all bashed up. And then I can hear one of the black cats, one of the instructors yelling at me saying,

get up, Blake. You over there getting drug. Release one of your cable loop type canopy, release, assembly. he's now leg and i'm like mother fucker except without that level of enthusiasm but i did hear him and i knew he was yelling at me and i popped a cable boom

the shoot collapsed and then i'm laying there and i'm going what in what in the fuck just happened this jumping thing sucks but i did pack up my parachute in a kit back went back to the assembly area now i still had no idea how bad i was when I got there, I saw the black hats. They were looking.

They were looking for people because apparently I didn't know this. They saw that somebody was towed. Right. So now they're all looking. They're like, where is this dude? Well, I saw a buddy mine and he goes, dude, are you okay? You look. Because I know I was ashen.

I was shocking. I was shocky still. And I had blood, you know, coming down on this side of my brain bucket. And I said, bro, I am hurt. Something's really bad with my arm. And he goes, holy cow. On my beat, he was I had rope burn. And he's going, what the hell?

And he says, take it off. I says, I can't, I can't move this arm. I cannot. There's no signal from here to there. There's none. So he helped me unbuckled my, um, um, buttoned my blouse and pulled it down. And then when I saw that bicep and I saw that it had been pulled down. Yeah.

My forearm. Oh, man. And like the skin was almost translucent. That's when I immediately heaved. Right. Just heaped. Because now I knew why that. Why I was hurting so bad?

And then the ribs, everything. But then the black cat saw that came over. Hey, you the guy? Yes. And they were, dude, like velvet gloves, you know, velvet gloves. They were like, bro, sit down over here. The, um, the helo just left with a guy who broke his leg. We got to bus you to Martin Army Hospital.

Oh. Yeah. So I had to bus there. And it was a bumpy ride. Right. Jiggling me all over to play. broken ribs and jacked up bicep. And then there's more.

Then there's more. The hospital, it's 1983. The hospital's filled with grenade vets who had real injuries from, you know, airfield seizures and shit. Anyway, that's it. That was how I started. So did you, so, I mean, I know that having the bicep attached is a common injury with, with that when you get towed.

Did they, do they have to do a surgery to reattach it? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You could see that scar there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this bicep is still a lot smaller than my other one. But yeah, they had to dig it out of my form and put it back together. And the way he explained it to me, says, this is the size of your bicep right now. This is what we could salvage.

Wow. The surgeon's name was Perlick. I remember his name, Perlick. Red-headed dude. So that's cool that. I mean, at least they didn't try. chapter you out of the military no or medboard you out of the military no nope nope nope nope nope um i was in the hospital for a minute yeah you know i was there and then i was i had to work at

the airborne commit dude it just sucked you had to work at the eight like yeah i had to work there was on profile i had to work at like 45th company airborne whatever the hell it's called training thingy and um yeah i had to work there for a few months let me see uh september october November, December. So through Christmas break, January, I think I jumped again in February. So you had to continue the course?

They didn't just like... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I had to continue. Now, I already bent through all the other stuff. Right. So they just put me right on a plane. Right. They gave me a ground refresh.

Oh, that's good. And, dude, they were cool as hell. The instructors put me first in the door. And I remember this one jump master, you know, telling me, stand in the door. I handed him my static line, and he grabbed it from me. look me right in the face you know it's like i got this thing yeah this is not going to check you

they were cool as hell they were cool as hell they were cool as hell so i did uh two first in the door because i had to get three more there so two first in the doors and then one in the middle of the stick yeah and then from there did you go straight from there right to the sf course which was i mean i'm not in peak shape now when i'm doing the army i was in peak shape right you know i was a state champion wrestler and weightlifter and i was badass um but uh no i'm on shape and i got to start to s f course i started on my birthday in 1984 yep on my 19th birthday uh and it wasn't like today where they have like s fas they had pre phase which was nothing more than just an absolute smoke fest for a couple weeks and just trim the fat let's see you could put up

with this shit you know they were just making it up as they went for the rest of that the rest of the sf course was similar to what is today uh but that was filled with several different road bumps too i mean one after the other even out of cam a call i couldn't get hot shot like i think like twice or three times a week they would bring in hot as you know and instead of C rations because MREs weren't out just yet they were almost there um and in order to get hot A's you had to 10 pull-ups with your kid on and climb the rope and i'd had no biceps still i was still building this thing back but you know i was young and it didn't take long before i was able to knock them out again um which sucked because you know before that i was one of these like i was a pull-up i had to

pull-up record in basic training right now i couldn't now i couldn't do any to feed myself but uh yeah you know little there was just tons of speed bumps like that the sf course sucked I failed out of first phase. And it was for bullshit reason, bullshit reason. I think it was the cadre at the time, they weren't too keen of us 18 x-rays, you know,

as Ness that babies. Right. And, man, and back then they still had the survival program, you know, six days out in you worry, and you're issued one ration,

a live chicken or a live rabbit. For those six days, and then you got like 21 tasks to complete in this amount of time. But I did good. on survival I did good and one of the instructors was he was just jealous they would come out every night and check on you and he wrote me up for some bullshit and um you know I already had a couple red tick marks and that was that that put me over the edge so I had to do first phase all over again the whole thing so they were really gatekeeping in the with the beginning of that 18 x-ray program yeah yeah yeah oh yeah yep absolutely um But I made it through and then I went to our first group. And then I learned pretty quick that I'm not, I'm not so special afterwards.

Because what the hell does a, you know, 19 year old private first class? No. Not, you know, freaking asset to an 18. But I did get assigned to an 18. And, you know, these guys were all either 82nd Airborne or first or second Ranger battalion. You know, they were badass infantrymen. You know, they all had all this infantry experience. I had nothing zero goose egg.

But it went well. I was fast-tracking. I had, by the time I was, I think I was a Bucksart. No, maybe stats. But if I was I was 22 years old, I had two SF MOSs, 18 Bravo, 18 Echo, and I was a whiskey nine. So, combat dive and halo. Right.

By the time I was 22. So I was fast-tracking, fast-tracking, you know. I was high speed, low drag at a early age. And first group was fun, you know, but it was all fit stuff. It's peacetime army. You know, you're not going to do anything, really. There was a lot of, a lot of Thailand, Philippines, Korea at that time. Thailand, Philippines, yep, bingo, yep, yep, yep.

And I love those trips. It was great, you know. I immersed myself in the culture. But out of the blue, man, a bunch of us got. pulled to this recruiting meeting you know like hey you meet the requirements go see this recruiting building number you know hotel 104 whatever that something like that and went there and here's some dude in civilian clothes and long hair he's in a suit and he was so freaking vague I mean the amount of ambiguity was ridiculous I equate it to Will Smith and men in black

when he's in that room with the right with the half dome chairs yeah and he's asking rip torn now what are we doing here again he goes because you're the best of the best of the best of the best you're not on some intergalactic kegger here but you know so it was like it was like what what was very big big i don't even think he said i think he said work in the european theater you know that kind of stuff and you're gonna you know learn a language it uh you got to grow your hair out you can have a civilian um clothing allowance and this kind of crap and i'm like well damn that sounds a hell of a lot better than foreign internal defense i mean that sounds like you know it's it was interesting i i said hell yeah because that's a thing you know with with the military right

it's all about leveling up getting right the next thing right the opportunity presents itself to say yep i want that i want that course i want that course i want that school yep i want to level up level level up, level up. I want to go to that battalion now or that unit, you know, um, especially if you're spending a career at it. You want to level up. Right. I mean, that's the objective. And that should be, that's a good metaphor for life too. We should want to always continue to level up. It doesn't end, you know, that cycle. Um, so, um, yeah, they sent me to DLI, you know, Defense Language Institute, Monterey, California, which is an eye opener. Uh, and then,

learn learn german you think you do you know and you test out well you know yeah three three and freaking german blah blah and then you get there in the ground you realize you don't know shit once again here here we go again you don't know shit because you know actually speaking to people is a whole lot different than being in the classroom environment and just checking the talking to the teacher nice comfort zone but um yeah i immersed myself in that too i mean i would i would talk to small like merchants and I joined a um oh back to that back to the the job so that was PSSE and um which was it was it was cool in that it was it was it was it was it was cloak and dagger shit right so it's it's peacetime army but we're in the heat of cold war right so i have no

idea that these things existed most people didn't man most people didn't um but But they do. And they still do. Shit like this still exists. So we were kind of, you know, we were the backup plan in case the balloon went up and Soviets invaded. So now we'd have a stay behind force in Berlin because that was kind of the epicenter for everything's spy, right? It was right in the middle of all the shit. Right.

Plus Berlin sat in the middle of Soviet East Germany, too, you know. So, and it was cool. It was cloak and dagger shit. You're doing a lot. You're walking the streets. You're pounding the pavement a lot. You know, and you're working, you're working routes in case you have to pick up that double agent. You're working routes.

You're monitoring signal sites. You're loading dead drop sites. It was all that streetcraft, tradecraft stuff. I think they changed the name tradecraft to street crap. But anyway. Pat, I just want to point out for viewers out there, PSSE was the unit that proceeded or came after Special Forces Detachment A in Berlin. They had to kind of change the cover because it got exposed after Desert 1. And PSSE, it correct me from wrong, physical sensitive security element was the name?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go. Pat, was there a reason? I mean, when you think of that, when you think of that unit, often you think of 10th group, but they were pulling people from every, everywhere. There was no, so that I think that was another change, right? There was no affiliation with 10 group with PSSC. Okay. As there was with Dead A.

Right. No affiliation. Yep. But it was, it was, it was fun. It was a fun job. You know, it really wasn't that, I wasn't as deep into the Cold War as I thought I was until my next job there. But it was great, man.

It was great, man. You really learned, you know, the streets, the subway systems, the espons, the merchants, the businesses, the bars, the alleys, you know, everything. The shit hole hotels. You knew it inside and out. You really got to know that place well. And it was just like one exercise after the other, you know, with picking up agents and, you know, fault of uh,

fought agents. Um, but out of the blue, um, my sergeant major at that unit, uh, he policed me up one day and says, hey man,

there's a, um, there's a guy here I want you to talk to. Because the writing was on the wall that PSSC was going to close. The writing was on the wall, right? So, um,

that it, that was, that it was going to be short lived. He says, there's a guy here. I want you to meet. So I went down. And now here's his master sarton.

He's in BDU's. I got a freaking mullet in a stupid Fumanchu mustache and big fat, stupid German brown boots in a pleather jacket. And he said, hey, I work in another unit here. I'm like, come on. How many others are? Leveling up. And this one sounded way cool.

This was USMLMLM. United States military liaison mission. And he said basically what we do is we spy on the Soviet army in Soviet East Germany. And I was like, you got to be shit, bro. Yes, where do I sign? And so I went through the interview process, and it was all in German, the interview process. And the first thing he asked me in German was, can you explain to me in detail how a 35 millimeter camera I almost said function here operates as I like yeah because I yeah I could do that but

that job was cool as hell so we had this uh it was it was kind of like overt you know spy you were in uniform right when you had to do yes in uniform in a military vehicle no weapons no no signal no comms man it was so stupid I had it I had it I argued with him about that about the no-coms thing you know after i'd been there a while but uh yeah we had a uh soft uh cover for action cover for status and that was we were a liaison unit to the soviet army and we actually did some of that but um that would get us into soviet's germany and we were issued maps by the soviet army uh and these maps had big yellow blobs on them And these blobs were called PRAs, permanently restricted area.

That's where all the good shit is, though. You know, that's where all KGB comms and nuke, SS-24s. You know, as, I'm trying to think of the other nuke ones, so not frogs. But, you know, the nukes were SS-24s and maybe SS-21s. Shit, I forget. It's been a minute. But I used to know every piece of Soviet kit, every single one, because they send you to a school in Kent in the UK,

a British military intelligence school, and you learn, oh my God, man, you dream about Soviet kit in that school. You dream about it. And they have so much of it. I knew everything from Flatfish radar to Zill 131, to every variant of BTR,

to every variant of BMP, to every variant of T80, you know, to the aircraft, you know, for every mig, every helo, halo, hip, you know, just all of the helicopters. And we were issued passes

and that would get us over the Gleinekebroker into Potsdam, East Germany. And we were basically given like, you know, some the missions came from higher up, you know, satellite imagery, that kind of thing. At the time, too, East Germany was split into three quarters and we rotated through the quarters because the Brits were doing it and the French were doing it too. And we try to collaborate, you know, exchange information and stuff like that.

But a lot of times, the interagency shit, just like anywhere else, you know, it's like knowledge is power. I want to give it up. Which is freaking bullshit, bro. We're freaking fighting commies. Give me some info here. But that was a very, very, very exciting and fulfilling job. extremely pat i i don't know if i don't know if you can speak to this and if not you know that's fine totally understand but you have your cover for status your cover for action as these military

liaisons you have these sites that are awfully uh you know obviously off limits you're also under observation i assume all the time how how do you manage to to like do your job recon yeah you know yep well fortunately see we also went to military driving schools, right, hosted by the Bundesnachrischdienst. I think I got there, right? I haven't said that word in like 20 years.

But most of our driving was on like tank trails and such. We were navving. We were navin. This was before GPS. Uh-huh. We were naving on one over 24,000

top of graphical maps. That's how we were nabbing. And trip meet around the dashboard. You know, so you're naving down tank trails and shit like this. And they, then they went forever, forever. Then you hit a hard ball. When you hit a hard ball,

I remember this too. Anytime you hit a hard ball off a dirt road, you go the opposite direction for a few hundred meters and then turn around. Because our tire tracks were very distinguishable and the Stasi was out there looking for us. You know, the East German secret police.

But they didn't have people actively looking for us. Okay. But the Soviets knew what we were doing. And we would actively go to training sites. And a lot of times, we would try to elicit information from lower level dudes, you know, that weren't hardline counties. I mean, you tempt a freaking private with a penthouse magazine and some Marlboro cigarettes. You're getting some information.

Right. And then you sit down with them and you share lunch. I remember sharing lunch with these two private. it's one day they were caretakers for a training training training training training site training ground training area and they were living in a foxhole when we said and we travel in pairs and one of us speaks fluent Russian and I'm the German speaker and the guy was asking how long you've been out here he goes oh this is our third week living in this foxhole just guard in the training area

and they would get like rations delivered and I called it brown cabbage and cardboard flavored bread. It was so comie. It was so typical com, you know. So we made a fire and I'm busting out like,

you know, crackling oat brand and Dennymore beef stew. These guys nearly shit themselves. Evil temptations of the West. Oh, dude. Yes. I come from the big 7-Eleven

in the sky, bro. That's where I come from. That's right. You know, that conscript Army shit, man. You know, we're so freaking spoiled. We're so spoiled. We're so spoiled. We have no idea.

You know, we have such first world problems. I've seen sobs get freaking hammered. Hammered on antifreeze. Hammered. I've seen, I went into a barracks once. All the troops were out to the field, SA 11, SA 11 compound. And we, we've watched them leave. on buses and a lot of them were in formation we we snuck up we we observed for a minute

we made a little racket too to see if anybody was in you know and nobody so we went in to this barracks and there was bulletin boards we were snapping the shit you know you can't you can taking pictures and everything and and the smell and there was putrid in these barracks and ammonia was killing my eyes in my nose my sinuses it's like what the what is this what is this and there was a statement Well, it went downstairs to a basement. And there was some windows, you know. We walked down the stairs and realized the plumbing of this barracks shit the bed.

Oh, man, I can't believe I use that term with this story. So they just, they just drained all of the shit and piss right into the basement, right into the basement. Oh, my God. Yeah. You know, so it's funny the shit we pissed and moan about. But that was, yeah, it was a, it was a, it was a. cool, cool time in history for me. Hey guys, I want to tell you about the sponsor for tonight's show, which is True Work.

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you know you're a young joe and like enjoying the high speed life do you realize how much a part of history you are at that point in time man no hell no does anybody when they're when they're when they're there i mean when the when the berlin wall came down i was right there and during reunification I had no idea the gravity of that. No idea. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Like you look like, man, dude, listening to like Front 242 and Einstein, Newbotton out there,

like industrial music as the wall comes down where your leather jacket and the mustache and the glasses. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's badass. What was, I mean, what was that like being there when this historic event happened? It was, you know, it kind of snuck up on us, right? It was like all of a sudden one day.

Right, right. This reunification's going to happen. What's first step? First step is wall comes down. Right. You know, because Wall came down 89. Reunification didn't happen until 91. Yeah.

So I can't even imagine the logistics there what went on, you know, in between there. Right. But it was both, I was, I was partying at both. Now, Wall coming down, not much of a party. Take the truth. Really? Not like reunification, bro. Nine one.

Reunification is when everybody started, you know, when the gates open. Yeah. Families are getting together that haven't seen each other. Yeah. I don't think anybody realized that they partied all the way through the night until the sun came up. Because nobody was, we weren't in, nobody's in bars and stuff. People were just bringing booze from every corner and crevice and glove box and trunk.

You know, so right there under the, um, uh, uh, the, uh, not the Geddakness, Kyrsia, but the uh uh shit brandybert tour five right by the brandenberg tour you know so that's where the big party was and just thousands and thousands of people and fires and fireworks and bands just setting up and i think david hasselhoff was there too i think he was responsible for it probably probably and and with p s s i mean were you there looking to like scoop up some documents or maybe find defectors i mean what what were you guys looking at no not at that point at that point like reunification i was looking for another job because wall comes down and we're reunified well huh and that was the end of it you know right now i have to i have to find a jo b yeah that's what

i went to selection for the unit okay got you yep uh because once again level up what's what do i do now after this shit because this was cool as hell right what is there there was only one thing only one thing right and to me there was so much mystique there i knew i knew guys there i had some buds that went i knew nothing about the unit or nothing at all went to selection and i failed i was like well damn bro this i had to go back to germany and then i volunteered to go to swick you know special warfare center to be an instructor because they gave me a second chance. The unit said you could come back to selection.

I had broken ankle. They said, make it a full year. Make sure you're ready that you're strong. And I was like, hell, yeah, bro. Not only that, but it was a risk and a half volunteering for SWCC because it was a four-year commitment. Nobody wants to be in SWIFT. That's a dead.

That's a nail in a coffin. You know, that's a bad place to be. I mean, there are a good place. places in SWIC, but I was on like the commo committee. Terminating traffic. Yeah. And then when again, a year later, and I did well, I was like, oh, hell, yeah, man. And then planted my ass there for 13 years.

And then it was, you know, continuously trying to level up. Once again, level up, level up, level up. And not only in like team positioning or, unit even against individuals because I had a bit of an ego right about me because I was a I was a top performer most places where that I went top performer I get to the unit and I realized I'm mediocre now maybe at that like top tier mediocre right but still mediocre and I continue to be that way for years just mediocre because it was There's, there's, it was amazing.

It was the best, best place you could ever work at ever. But it comes with a price. You know, long work hours. A lot of, a lot of stress, a lot of risk, a lot of injury. And the stress was because you're always on the bubble. They reserved the right to fire your stinking ass any given second. And it was easy to get fired from there. So you were always on the bubble, always short string.

No, I should say short string. They gave you a lot of slack. You know, they put, they tons of slack. But at the end of that slack, it's an abrupt halt. When you say, when you say it was easy to get fired there, like what were some of the reasons that you saw guys fired that they might not get fired in other units? Pons of them. I'll tell you, a wake-up call for me was my first squadron training exercise, right? It's first squadron hip.

I don't know if I shared this with, with many. people this one here first squadron hit i see a fly standby oh yeah baby um so squadron hit multiple breach points we all i'm on that i'm on like the best team in the unit these guys were just top dogs in everything physical shooting tactics all that shit um multiple breach points simultaneous boom teams enter multiple breach points i go into the first room and i go click instead of bang I didn't think, I mean, my immediate action was fast, right? Because I knew what happened. So slap rack.

You know, instead of transitioning, I just slap rack, slap rack and got to work. And I was like, I hope nobody saw that. My troop sergeant, I mean, dudes, dudes are omnipotent. You know, when you get to that level, they're omnipotent. They're going to see every freaking thing. And my troops are major saw it. And he docked me my proficiency pay for the month. Wow.

Wow. So hit me right in a pocketbook. And that was a big race. Right. It was like $200 or something like that. forget it was substantial right you know on a GIs right paycheck um but that fast and he also said he goes hey uh it uh you're on a shorter you know shorter string now right something like this happens again we're we're gonna have to let you go so it wasn't because i was like being negligent

or doing something idiotic or moral and ethical but they're going to fire you there's a difference right So when dudes do that shit or like NDs, they happen. They happen. Right. Especially when you're when you're, when you're training that much. Depending on the circumstance, a lot of times they'll fire you for a year and bring you back as a relook and allow you to come back again. But anything moral or ethical dilemma, anything like that, you're gone, easy. You're done.

So compared to other units. Yeah. Jesus, dude. That's easy. You're out of here fired. anything any kind of moral ethical you know so lying uh um d ui uh cheating um you know any of that stuff you are freaking absolutely gone uh also if you wane or if you're falling behind in performance now if you're a good dude you're falling behind in performance they might find a job for you

in a different part of the building you're not going to be a door kicker you're not going to be an operator uh but yep very easy to get fired uh And I love that. I love the accountability portion, you know? I loved it. I mean, it was heartbreaking sometimes having buds, like, because I knew guys who would, I, I knew three people, similar story. This one, though, was kind of extreme. Guy was in on the weekend because dudes went in all the time and trained.

Went out to train, came back, went into his vault. Nobody's there. It's like, I don't know, seven or eight. in the morning. I think he was doing night fire, you know, and Sunday, uh, comes back. He's putting his guns away and he freaking, he, he sends one right into the floor. Boom. A, uh, A, and D. You know, he could have put some freaking putty on that, but he turned himself in, you know, nobody was there. I know three dudes who have turned themselves in for NDs. Three of them, three guys turned themselves in. Nobody was there. They turned, one guy was a sim munitions round. He turned himself in. Wow.

Wow. Yeah. Yep. But I mean, it's, it was nice working in that type of environment. Very nice. It was so cool. So freaking cool. Pat, what, uh, what, we're just sorry, um, what, what year did you get to the unit and to the extent that you can talk about, like, what was, what was sort of the, um, atmosphere in the unit at that time as far as like what was happening in the world? You mentioned the wall. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, what was the mission set that you were kind of training for and looking at? so I got there 92 and immediately so a year later I'm on this hot shit team in May of 93

I get ones on my pager because we're going to get ID'd you know we're going to get ID'd in Somalia going to snatch him up or kill I think it was didn't matter I think I didn't think he needed to be captured is that the capture kill right right right I mean oh you give me an

option there damn right capturing somebody's hard man yeah but capture kill briefs fine even if you yeah well he got he killed he resisted

but it was a capture kill out yeah so we trained our asses off man we went you know strictly uh priority for all unit assets three weeks and then

and then it got passed to another squadron And then it got passed to another one. And we were just passing down, hey, this is some of the stuff we learned and doing this and that. And we just pass on the info.

And so C Squadron went. So after that, a big focus, this was kind of cool. Wait, let me think about this. Let me think about this. Nope,

I'm not going to talk directly about that. I will say the next boogeyman that we were going after was Gaddafi. uh-huh yeah so he was on the radar so um uh cool stories associated with that but uh nah not super comfortable talking about the deets on that one um so kadafi and then um there was we were doing some and i'll be kind of vague on this one we were doing some undercover stuff which put us into parts of the world that we didn't have complete autonomy right but uh but um the next thing that emerged was um you know bosnia um and this

new thing called PIPWix, right? Person's entitled for war crimes. So that that, that war had finished 95, 96-ish, you know. I think 96, that was it. That was it. Done, done, done. Not even sniper fire. You know, I was on Hillary Clinton's detail.

No shit. Yeah, when she was under sniper fire. So you can confirm snipers. Dude, it was Tuzla. Eagle-based Tuzla. It's like one of the safest places in the world. Yeah, shit. And on that trip to Cheryl Crow hit on me.

Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's back when she was hot too. Yeah, when all she wanted to do was have some fun. Boom. Yep, yep. Yep. What was that like a USO tour or like some?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They came over with like, I think it was Sinbad, Cheryl Crow. And then Hillary came over with Chelsea. but yeah there was I've made a bunch of like goofy uber-lib politicians in the mid-90s over there like Geraldine Ferraro oh Madeline Albright she was kind of cool even though she was a Uber-lib but she was kind of cool still but anyway so the so later 90s you know the Piff Wicks come to play person's indicted for war crimes these guys are badass man you know so now we're back to oh we have to actually scarf these guys up and they got to go to the

hague you know we can't just send out a drone or put a sniper in a in up in up in up in up there you know a hide site this shit's got to be surgical as hell and i got a few of those guys um yeah i got the first one his name is christic uh general christic and then a couple of other big names but real freaking neat shit I wish I could talk explicit about that but yeah no need to no need to this is something that was really right up your alley just from your previous missions in Germany right yep yep yep yeah it was cool you know because it was all playing clothes it was cloak and dagger shit right yep but it was it was kind of like you know what the unit was made to do you know what I mean right this kind of stuff uh and that was

was that was man it was just bad it was bad badass yeah uh and that that fizzled out um because we got them we got them all and then i was an s and t selection and training for for a couple years the bummer of that story is while i was an s and t 9-11 9-11 which means everybody's deploying but as schmucks in s and t but s and t we're not freaking going anywhere nowhere by the time um i got over there dudes had 150 combat hits you know in country or more yeah and here i am uh i was at oh and i was i made e nine by that point so here i am an e nine taking orders from a staff sergeant which i didn't mind at all bro right e nine a private e nine hell yeah yeah you know It was probably one of the only places where you could be a private E9.

You know, make me a door kicker's E9. Hell yeah. Pat, I mean, you're actually a great authority then on this because being an S&T, how were those guys that were going over and then coming back? How were tactics and training involving? Were they getting fed directly to you guys? Were, was the training course evolving like on the spot sort of in that moment? It pretty much stayed. It was it's so perfect.

designed it pretty much stayed exactly the way it is okay pretty much exactly the way it is yeah because it was it was designed for that in mind that kind of shit right counterterrorism stuff so it did not change one freaking bit what did change was the influx and people wanting to get to the unit right because we were getting some man right i mean people were you know there were there were a lot of like special forces teams and stuff getting some and other special ops unit but we were were like it was non-stop non-stop so guys really want to get there because a lot of a lot of people weren't doing shit you know but yeah the OTC the operator traders course stayed stayed pretty much exactly the same yeah and so what what was it like by the time you got over to Afghanistan

I didn't go to Afghanistan oh I'm sorry Iraq then yep twice twice to Iraq real short trips it was it was still target rich you know oh because it was 04 and 05 oh yeah yeah uh 4 i didn't do shit man because oh man it's kind of cool though too

the unit sent me over because I was at the oh man this this was a this was a shit detail but but I did it uh it was at the end of my S and T I had no team I had no squadron I had no body. And they sent me over to Iraq to, um, to check out what the support element was doing. The mechanics, the engineers, the logistics guys, um, the cooks, all that, you know, to check

them out to see how their security was. And man, it was bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. So I did a lot of OJT on the ground with them because they were doing high risk shit, man. They were getting shot at more than we were. And then the unit brought me back and I built a course for the support element. I built a course. Like a mini OTC. Dude, it was two weeks very, very intensive.

Yeah. All of the basic tactics stuff of shooting, right? So right from BRM to multiple target engagements to pistol work. and then to the all of the crucible weapons, damn it man. I don't use these terms often anymore, but so all the

crucible weapons. So anything that was belt fed or shoulder carried, we train them all on that. A lot of driving. A lot of vehicle-based scenarios. A lot of first aid. So now these guys are going back over. When I went over with my former squadron, we were taking them out with us. And they were like on street corners, cooks, bro. Yeah.

A man in a mag 58, which was cool as hell. Yeah, cool as hell. But I really like that time working with them because do we talk about appreciation? Because they idolized us. You know, the support element idolized us operators. And now you're chummy chummy with them and you're teaching them all this cool. freaking commando shit and they're like what the fuck this is the best thing ever and then they're doing shit with freaking operators on the ground yeah granted it's manning it's manning freaking

security positions but that's big freaking nickel for a engineer for a cook yeah or a uh mechanic yeah you know you're on a freaking a mod deuce 50 cow and some of these guys like got into firefights like wah you know ripping rounds down down um alleyways the mechanics can be so salty because we you know we just break all their shit and then get right yeah yeah now they're getting to go out on the operative cooks are the hardest working people in the military i mean riged up you know so to get some love is like yeah really yeah so good so good but that's what makes the unit so freaking just absolute badass man you know i spend a lot of time training my um my support element over there i would shoot with them every week i would have open range day and they

where they could come out and i run like scenarios for them and Yeah, but yeah, so I stayed until 2005. I retired in 2005, 2005. And then life started. Right. It's like, what do I do now after, since I've grown up? What the hell? You know, and that transition could be spooky.

Now, I did have some groundwork set already. I picked a little hanging fruit and took a job even before I retired. I got offered a job, a corporation doing military contract stuff, paying me more. You know, I was like, you know, in familiar territory. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, good, good. And it sucks, man. Now that, you know, since I'm out on my own, even when I was on my, so I worked for that corporation for about four, four and a half years and they laid me off.

Best thing that could ever happen to me. One of the scariest moments in my life, too, because I had family, little. kids all this shit um but probably one of the best things that could have happened for growth right right we need to be very uncomfortable in order to grow right um because we need to we get uncomfortable we need to we need to shit that exoskeleton and put on another exoskeleton that's a little bit bigger right um but when i got laid off i was like dude what in the i mean i i i confided in a bunch of buddies of mine that had their own businesses and they all said that they can get me worried but they all said the same thing just do it on your own just do it on your own and man

i did and it worked out it worked out now ebbs and flows right when you run your own right right right i mean deep dark holes highs just uh one freaking thing after the other it never stopped ebs and flows i mean uh but i was doing well but i knew i was working a lot too this this was you were doing tactical marksmanship courses and things like that. Yep, yep, yep, yep. And I had a full, you know, slate, man. Everybody wanted it. I was doing something that nobody else had.

I was doing what I called performance-based training. So I was training dudes kind of like a sports psychologist would train a professional athlete. I mean, it's like, what's the difference, man? That's what I would tell you, you know, what's the difference? You're basically a professional athlete when you're at that level. So let's train like professional. professional athletes and but so 2010 is when I generated T-Max my company and I was working my ass off same time going through it just an absolute bludgeon fest of

marriage a tail end tail end it was real bad real bad I I married something you know at the beginning of this it was 16 year relationship and the beginning of it is cool she disclosed to me that she had some health issue mental issues but she was taking meds and everything, but pretty soon, you know, bipolar. So, but pretty soon she started abusing the meds. Right. And drinking on them. Now, that fucks up the neuroreceptors in your head real bad.

You know, when you're abusing prescription meds, which are absolute poison, if you're on prescription meds, try to get off of them. There's plenty of alternatives out there. Mother nature knew us how to take care of us. Oh, man, that shit drives me crazy. So she became a rave, absolute raving, louis. lunatic, just delusional and paranoid. It was bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad for years.

I lived in a bonus room above my garage for five years. But I finally, that one came to then thanks to the police in my town. Long story, I'd go on for freaking two hours on that one. And that was 2013. 2013 was my worst year and my best year, all wrapped in one. All wrapped in one. see those of you out there listening who did any kind of government contract stuff in 2013 you remember this thing called sequestration sequestration

bro my calendar was full 2013 you know a secret service border patrol 80 second airborne just one after the other sequestration happened in january January 2013. Light switch, click. No work. Wow. You got no work. And I'm in, you know, and I'm at the tail end of a divorce.

Right. That's January. March, I move out. And I'm assuming this debt because we already been through a few mediations. And I've been through tons of mediation already, right? Tons of them. I am spending so much on lawyers and trying to clear this debt. It was an a asteroid.

It was an absorbent amount. I'm not, I'm not even going to mention the number. It was ridiculous. Because I didn't even know that you could run like a debit card as a credit card, you know. Because my ex was doing this shit. I had no idea. I had to assume all this shit.

Oh my God. Because I thought it was just debit card. You know, it's debit. It's debit card. But some of them come with, you know, $30,000 worth of credit. Surprise. It was a lot of them. but uh so 13 that all that shit happened um i move out i'm close to my kids i'm 500 yards away

in a condo uh sequestration not getting paid just just one freaking shit storm after the other uh september 2013 is when i met when i meet my current life which was which has been it's been it's been a It's been a dream come true. Remember earlier, I said, second chance on life. That was the first time I got a second lease on life. I will tell you about the second time later. This is the second time. Not many of us get that, you know, second lease on life.

So in order to get a second lease on life, shit's got to be pretty bad. Right. You know, you got to be down and out. You got to be maybe a junkie or go completely bankrupt or, you know, shit's got to be bad. You know, you've suffered major loss. Right. So that's when I meet Rebecca, too. And man, I just started life all a bit.

But at the time, that was 2008 years old. I had to start life all over again, 48 years old. But it's been great. And you know what pains me? I've said this on podcast before. I've said this. And this is a scary thought. This gives me, this makes me cringe.

Knowing what I have right now, knowing, you know what I have right now? Yeah. and being as happy and content and satisfied and busy as I am right now, I would do all that shit over again. I would do all that. I would do, I would 100% do all that bullshit. I would live in that bonus room for five years.

I would be accused of cheating six, seven, eight times a day, having the cops come over, showing them how I'm a bug in the house, how the TV's bugged, how I'm operating the TV from El Paso through my cell phone, how, you know, the accusations were just freaking stupid. It was so, there was so many of them. But I would change it.

I wouldn't change any of that because of what I had. You know, a lot of guys, especially a lot of guys coming from those high performing units, you know, have a difficult time transitioning into the civilian world to begin with. You know, you go from 60 to zero, as they say. Yeah. You know, not only did you have that going on, but you had these, you know, really challenging issues at home

where probably your own reality was being challenged on a daily basis, right? Like, you're trying to deal with this transition to begin with, and then you have somebody who's like trying to impose this sort of psychotic frame over your world. How did you manage all that at the same time? Were you dealing with it well?

No, no, no. Now, I'll tell you how you manage it. You got to stay busy, right? So you said 60 to zero. You can't go to zero. You've got to stay around 60. You've got to stay. I don't give a shit if that's working,

if that's, you know, becoming an entrepreneur or plow in a field. You've got to be mission focused. There's got to be meaning in your life. Fulfillment. You've got to have it because you've had it for so long, especially career military guys, you know, career military. They've got, they need that. They need that camaraderie, that teamwork, that fulfillment, that fulfillment.

moment that work with meaning. I didn't. I was dealing with it well initially. But when I was going through the last five years of that marriage, it was, it was bad. It was real bad. I found myself in a very, very deep, dark hole. It was like the pit of despair. I like to say that I could joke about any portion of my life, any injury, any mishap.

This one, though, is hard for me to joke about. But it's important to talk about. I ran into a massive three to four year long spell of depression. I had no idea what depression is. But I was almost quitting. I was quitting. I was quitting. I was quitting.

I was quitting. I was accepting mediocrity. Did you know you were quitting? I'm sorry? Did you know you were quitting or was it? Nope. There was, I had no idea. I was so tired of hearing and having to, you know, you know, hearing, I'm going to take a fall down the stairs, call the cops and tell them you pushed me.

You know, it was just nonstop or having the cops come and say, hey, we found your wife in the village and she's drunken on drugs. I was so tired. I was just tired, tired. tired it was nonstop it was there wasn't not a day break there wasn't a day not a day break i doubt there there were a couple hours of break in there uh because even when i would go on trips i i'm i'm in like i mentioned already like el paso training the border patrol and my phone would ring non fucking stop nonstop yeah after after a while your your your nerves are shot you know yeah your your neuro receptors are shot

Yeah, yeah, I was I was almost done, but then I had an epiphany moment and I've mentioned this before in a couple podcasts, but I think it's worth remenching. I had an epiphany moment. And it was mainly because I was talking to my, my son. He was a sweet little cute as hell boy at the time. And I was shit-faced drunk out of my life because I was drinking all day long every day. And I realized, I told him, I said, James, I don't just, I don't just love you. am in love with you and he started crying I don't know how old these I forget I could do the math I figure out probably eight or something like that but um maybe younger said six uh and I realized

man and I put him to bed I realized this kid needs me man he needs I have to be around and um I said well I don't know where this came from but um I put out my running shoes uh set an alarm clock put out my um I iPod, got up early. It was a Saturday or something. It was a weekend day. And I just started, I just started running. You know, it was like a forest gum thing. What do I do? Let me just go for a run. And dude, I ran for like an hour and a half. I mean, it was a long time. I didn't run across Greenbow County. But, you know, I ran for a long time. And then I came back. And I did not want to go inside. I had to go inside to get food for, for a go to my bonus room but I didn't want to go in there and then I realized well I'm going to work out more here in the driveway and as I'm working out a couple things came to mind one is I felt relief you know after that run relief I mean good like I was remembering who the fuck I was I was remembering this and I said to myself I will not you will not defeat me I will not be defeated there's no freaking way. There was no way. And that's what I made up that mind, right? I just got, I just gave myself goosebumps.

He gave me goosebumps. Yeah. I will not. And then, um, and another part of me was saying, yeah, but bro, you're, you're buried. You're buried. And I said, nope, I counter argued. I said, nope, I have been planted. I'm going to grow out of this shit. I'm going to fucking grow out of it. And I'm going to get better. I'm going to get stronger. So worst and best year. Worst and best year. But that was one of the highlights right there. that changed that that old school mindset, you know, just a, you know, good sanity check. But it's back to your, it's back to your origin story, right? It's that, yep, is that you're not going to break me.

Nope. It's so, it's so, like, I mean, I'm really glad that you're able to share that story. It's just so strange to think of, like, a depressed Pat McNamara. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. I'm used to the high, high energy. I was faking my ass off. The dude who's in better shape than guys half his age. I mean, that's Pat McNamara.

Yep. That is true. You know, I think one of the things that it's hard with vets, what other situation, and not even people who aren't vets, you know, even our civilian friends, is people who are really deep in it, they're often faking, right? A lot of the people who are crying out for help. Oh, yeah. Like, they're not quite there yet, but it's when a dude,

or when a person is faking it, that we have no idea where they're at, but they're spiral and hard a lot of times. You know, if a guy is suffering from that, like depression or alcoholism, they're not going to, you're not going to notice a call for help. You need to either really know them,

know them really well, or assume. Yeah. Because I've talked to guys. I've talked to guys out, you know, who got out. After I recovered from all the shit

and got my shit together. and I just saw something. You know, they were bitter. You know what I mean? Bitter. And a couple guys looked at me like I had a dick grown out of my forehead, but they so appreciated it. Where I pulled them aside.

I say, hey, man, come out sometime. Get out. I know you said you don't come out. Come out and get a pint. Here's my number. Give me a shot sometime. So I'm not saying that I know. You know what I mean?

I'm not putting them in a bad position. Right. But I am opening the door and that so many of them have taken it. And afterwards, they've gone, dude, I cannot fucking tell you how much I appreciate it. Because the guys who are crying for help, I don't think they have a real freaking issue. I really don't. The guys who are seriously fucked up, you're not going to know it unless you know them. Right.

Or assume. Or you assume, dude, you've been through a lot of shit. You know, I will assume to the point where a guy's happy and he's out because I just did this recently. I was chatting with the guy, my local pub. Yeah, I'm retiring. I say, hey, bro, do yourself a favor. Stay connected. Stay connected with your old butts.

Just stay connected. Just do that because I didn't. And the connection is the cure. Yeah. I stole that line from Josh Collins, buddy of mine. But that connection is definitely the cure. Yeah. Did you find yourself isolating a lot during that period of time?

Hell yeah Dude, I wasn't I knew nobody I knew Yeah I But anytime I was out and about Or

You know On a training gig I fake the hell out of it Right Right Faked the freaking hell out of it Woo Get you some blaze arms

Baby You know All the freaking Pat Mac shit Just bloviating That was all freaking theater All of it So tell us about the second Leesong life

What were or the second second lease on life. What was that next lifetime, lifetime, life period that you went on to live? Dude, it's the one I'm living right now. Now, it's, I'll give you the Reader's Digest version. So meeting Rebecca changed, changed my life, right? So now I had meaning again. But I was working.

I was busy again. So in 2013, I found work. I found more. I was able to regenerate. But I felt good. I had this renewed enthusiasm, you know? and I just felt good. I was motivated.

And I had the discipline to, to, to, to, to, uh, kind of nurture the motivation. Uh, and,

um, and when, when I met Rebecca, I was, I was, I, dude, there's so many corny lines I'm going to say.

Uh, but one of them is, uh, I never, I never knew what it meant in, in my adult lifetime until I met Rebecca to, to truly fall in love with somebody. I never knew until I'm ever.

Never knew it. And now that I have it, I like it. And it's, dude, we've been together almost 10 years. We haven't had a crossword. She's my best friend. I miss, she's at school right now. She's going to school full time for it to be a psychologist. And I'm like, dude, I can't wait for you to come home.

So we drink a glass of wine together and watch some TV. But worked, we both, we worked our asses off, man. But, uh, uh, uh, sweat equity, you know, with, with, uh, freedom through discipline. Yeah. With discipline comes freedom. So we both worked and worked and worked. So for 10 years, what, 10 years, I did four courses a month traveling on a plane for most of them. 10 years.

Brutal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With two, with two big public in cases, shitty flight, shitty rental car, shitty hotel. shitty range get back on a Monday Tuesday Wednesday maintenance Thursday you plan your trip

Friday you're back on a plane 10 years 10 years and then what happens the virus from China China China virus so the lockdown happened I refused to call it a pandemic the lockdown happened and that was man that was a gift that was such a freaking absolute gift for me because that allowed me to adjust my life. Right. And your business plan. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't travel anymore to do work.

It's all local. Generated a couple new businesses. Like you mentioned at the beginning, I have an online coaching squad that Pat Matt, keep the Blaze Live coaching squad on Patreon. About over 400 members on that. It's really that. Talk about fulfillment, you know. job satisfaction because it's not it's not like a job the folks i have developed a relationship of

you know with 400 some new people several of uh of whom i've met in person because we'll do uh bi-annual meetups um it's an extremely eclectic group the skill sets are all over the map uh so i have uh that i um You know, I had the fitness program and the combat strength training and I sell those resistance bands. And after, you know, coronication, everybody was doing a home gym. So I was like, dude, I could, I could just be the rubber band man. I was making a living selling rubber bands. I was like, damn, this shit, people want, because I developed these bands that are tubular instead of the flat ones. Uh-huh. You know, so they just last long. And they're so versatile.

If people wanted to buy some of those bands, where would they find them? I just off. I don't have any in stock right now. But they're off of my link tree on my T-Max Inc. Instagram or up my website, T-Max, Inc. But yeah, and then my buddy, CJ and I have this podcast, University of Badassery. We do a bunch of mini-vlogging and on, my Pat Mac YouTube channel, which is a lot of fun, you know, so I'm very busy because,

oh, you got to stay busy, right? Yeah, you got to. I'm writing, I'm writing a kid's book. I am doing more drawings. I've opened my calendar up to doing private one-on-one classes. I'm still doing the fitness training, you know, online training and programming. And trying to stay fit as shit in the process. which, you know, who, it gets tougher.

It gets tougher. There's no doubt if this shit, don't get easier, you know. Now you get older, don't get easier. Is this? But you know what? You know what I have? I have this advantage. I have a, and I always want to tell them my, so my fan base, my, my, my audience, right?

So like half a million on Insta Shizzle and 50,000 on LinkedIn and, you know, I don't know, that millions and millions of views. on YouTube channel, they motivate me. Because they always ask, how do you stay motivated? It's like, bro, you motivate me.

I'm doing this shit for you because I know you're looking forward to. You're counting on me. I have to post this workout because you're counting on me. So I always have to thank my fan base because I got it. It would be real hard to do it without them.

Real hard. So, you know, that I think that anybody that came from You know, the spec ops community would have something to teach people that hadn't been through that. But you really have outside of that, right, outside of that special operations experience, you have some real life experience, some real times of overcoming adversity and what that means and continually doing it. And, like, being there.

like we can like you said we all fake it at some point in time right we all fake it but you've been about as as deeply down as a human can be and that close that close to capitulation and and and and you know and you say you know you say two leases on life and it's it feels like you've had at least three because the one with your son sounds like another one where well that's was part of it oh that was part of it was that was part of the second one because that was all that was a lead in you know and and it to me it's just such an inspiring and amazing story and somebody doesn't have to be a you know special operations want to be uh in order to to find you know inspiration from you because it's a very human story yeah yeah and and you know what you you probably seen this about me i don't pound

my chest and talk special off special ops and delta Clark and uses so blah blah I don't I don't I'm not one of these rest on your laurels mamma jambas I was a bad ass yesterday but I'm a badass tomorrow so I'm not going to talk a lot about that right you know I mean you know if guys are interested hell yeah but that doesn't define me right what defines me is me right now right here and what I'm going to do tomorrow which is get drunk can we talk about your pontalism a little bit point oh sure is a pointillism Serapontalism. Yeah, pointillism.

Sorry. I have several. They're all, most, most of what I do are, I have a bird of prey series. Some bird, you know, bird guy. I don't have any right here. Ooh, I got one on the wall there. He's got a glass frame. But this is an example.

This is one I did a few years back. So this is a military one. So not bird of prey. S.F. 1, like before and after, you know, or then and now. But if I were able to get it close enough, you can see that this. This is all comprised of dots. I don't think the key. Oh, yeah, there it is.

Yep. Yep. Yep. So the whole thing is dots. You know, it's all for your dots. That's amazing. So with a, you know, with a point, uh, 20, point two five repidio graph drafting pen. But yeah, it's fun.

Is that, is that sort of like a meditative thing, Pat that like you're in the zone? It is very, I have a bunch of, I am hobby heavy, hobby heavy, hobby heavy. And they're all therapeutic. Yeah. Bird watching, the gardening, the fishing, the drawing, the photography. Oh, shit, it goes on. There's more. I do everything.

Or if I don't, I aspire, I want to do everything. I don't aspire to do everything. I want to do as much, as much as possible. I want to learn, you know, learn to do things. I think it's good to be interesting. You don't want your brain to become stagnant. You know, when you see something that's interesting and you say,

it'd be cool to learn that. Well, go fucking learn it, man. You know, put one, just one foot, just one foot in front of the other and see what happens. You know, because a lot of times we'll say that should be,

we won't start. Right. I mean, is a start point. You don't have to commit. But if you, if you start, right.

That'd be cool. That'd be cool. I would like to learn how to do that. What's the next step? Let me watch a YouTube video on this. It's as easy as that. It's as easy as you know. And then you can take it one step further.

You know, if it appeals. But yeah, I like to do shit. I like to do things. I like to do the, I have to say this one. You know, the basic dude stuff. Absolutely. Yep. What do you, what were,

where would you like to be it i mean you're a young guy still where would you like to be in five or ten years um you know i i think i would like to be like uh retired retired but busy but what i mean by busy is um doing something with my hands plowing a field building a dam you know doing something grandiose i always thought it would be cool to build a castle you know to live by a river and use the river rock to build a castle um i want to be I want to defy age. I want to be as fit as hell for as long as possible, too. Because I know what it's like to not be fit.

I know what it's like to hurt. Yeah. And, and I think we take for granted what feeling good feels like. Oh, yeah. How about this? I think we take for granted what not feeling like shit feels like. Yeah.

Because a lot of people, don't know what feeling good feels like because they've never felt like shit you know they've through it for an extended period of time but um i think you know um i'm an outdoors and i want to spend more time just walking around looking at stuff taking photos um fishing in streams that no white man is fished out of you know getting way up into the mountains and just ripping freaking lips with the smallest, you know, 22, size 22 fly. And, and, um, uh, yeah, I, I, just that kind of thing. But I, I, I still want to be busy. You know, people say, yeah, when I retire, it's going to be a sandy beach and cigar and that kind of thing.

Screw that, bro. I call that a two day vacation. Right. Right. And then after that, I'm, I'm, I'm like, dude, I have to do something. I got to, I got to stay busy. You know, I could, I, I've thrown a lot around a lot of ideas. When, I retire, I might go back to work. I might go back to school. I thought it'd be cool to get a teaching degree. You'd be good at that. I don't need to teach full time. Yeah. Just put me on as a substitute teacher. Put me in, coach. Yeah. That's awesome. I make some shit interesting. I can make a boring subject interest. Look, I would take geography from you. I can see Pat Mac, US history teacher. I think that's well, I think that's one of the things I want to do. So I have a

target demographic with a lot of the stuff that I'm doing and it's younger people yeah I want to have a positive influence on younger people you know kids to teenagers uh because yeah they need it they need it right now yeah they need that's cool man do we have any questions for pat we've got quite a few so um oh shit questions questions from the viewer yeah yeah yeah for sure uh i'm gonna pour a little bit myself uh so in your face uh uh uh thank you very much Um, when are Pat Mac, Larry Vickers, Paul Howl and Kyle Lamb going to do the most epic podcast ever together. Ha ha ha. Yeah, that'd be a hard one to coordinate, huh?

All those guys are busy as shit, man. I mean, and you know what? They're all great. I know those guys. And man, they're all really, really. People don't pay them enough credit. I don't think. Or here, no, let me back up.

People in my industry, my community, don't pay them enough credit. I mean, they have paid for them. the way, you know, Larry and Paul and Kyle, they have paved away for so much shit in the gun industry and the kid industry. They paved the way for me because they started before me doing this. I owe them a debt of gratitude, not for what they've done in the military, but how they've succeeded outside of the military. These guys are bad ass, bro. Paul Harper, thank you very much. What lessons for future urban conflicts should Taiwan be learning from the detachment A in Berlin?

Interesting question. Yeah. Whoa. This is thought provoking. Say it again because you were a little bit muffled. Sorry about that. What lessons for future urban conflict should Taiwan be learning from dead A in Berlin? Yeah.

Well, should who be learning? Taiwan. Right, right, right. Well, this one always gets my go is, you can't rely on technology. It's going to shit the bed. that's a big one even for urban ops all that shit you can't rely on technology

you got to go old school you got to know cardinal directions you got to know how to freaking read shit you got to know shadows you got to know street craft you got to know all that crap you know you got to know old school communication you got to know dead drop sites

signal sites how to do a PM because we suck at that now too personal meat you know we suck at communication skills inter face to face communication skills get back to the old school shit I'm right on this, by the way. I guarantee you.

It's going to happen. Yep. Anya thanks again. Hey, Pat, I have, oh, this is something we can talk about also. I've got rheumatoid arthritis and got medboarded. I'm trying to stay fit, but it's a challenge. How would you adapt if you were me? And, you know, you can kind of talk.

Dude, I've got something way worse than fucking rheumatoid arthritis, man. I got this stupid gay disease called polymyalgia rheumatitis. So I'm almost at two years right now. Bro, I, I empathize. Who is this? What's his name? Anya Facche, Enya face. Anya?

And you, I, I empathize with you so, I mean, wait, what was that name? Was that a pseudonym? I think so, yeah. And your face. All right, right, right. All right. Anyway, I wish I could really address him because it would be more personal. But I empathize.

Because chronic pain. sucks bad and i had to get to a point oh man this was bad it was really bad where i could no longer rely on motivation because i have no no enthusiasm no motivation so i had to rely on discipline on discipline i had to lie rely on my routine my daily planner i live off of white uh white ports i got a year there in my laundry room i have the next couple weeks and on my refrigerator i have what's going on tomorrow every night every night right now When I get off of this, I'm going to go down and write my workout on that board. So that first thing in the morning that I see because motion is lotion, mobility,

mobility, so your body's telling you don't work out. Your brain, I mean, your brain is telling your body, don't work out. Don't do it. Sit on that recliner because that shit hurts. It hurts, man. I had no, you know, you see these commercials and shit, we're retort arthritis. I'm like, whatever. A bunch of pussies.

Dude, that shit hurts so bad. you're constantly fiddling with hands and wrists your shoulder well with the pmr it's shoulders hips joints muscles it's jaw line it's back of the head it's arches of the feet it's everything it's everything um you deal with it the best you freaking can here's a thing though i wish i had his name because i want to talk to um is give it a name and give it a bad place to live give it let it live in a shit hole. Work out, you know, when it tells you not to eat healthy when it tells you because you have, you probably have a lack of appetite because you might be taking like prednisone or something. Nope. Fuck that. Eat healthy. It's telling you not to. It's telling you, you know,

eat stuffed crust pizza. Yeah, tell it, fuck you. Give it a name. I called mine the demon. I'm at almost two years tonight. Now, I'm beating this thing. I'm beating it. Oh, and that's the other thing. I went off all prescription meds. Oh, here's another thing, I wish I had his name once again. Infrared sauna. Magic for this shit. Magic. Infrared sauna.

I bought one for my garage. Guarantee you, dude, in your town somewhere, there's a salt spot with infrared sauna. Go sit in one. Make it hot a shit because infrared sauna doesn't heat the air around you. Heat your body. Are those? It may say 130. Those are the personal ones that you sit in, like, that are around you, right?

Not like a big room. Right. Okay. Yep. Yep. So that's my advice right now on that. Can you, you know, you said motivation for, you know, you don't use motivation, you know, you don't use motivation, use discipline.

Can you really quickly kind of tell us what the difference is for you? I'm getting back to being motivated now because I'm beating this thing. So look out world. Because in the past year and a half, two years, once again, faking it, any post that you've seen to me doing workouts and stuff. totally fake those are my best reps if you look if you go back in my archives and you see the workouts i'm doing you you you'll think oh yeah pat makes some shape i mean he's not a shit you're good a shape he was two years ago that's because of the shit and what you were because i still

had the post freaking workouts for my fan base and they were getting me motivated uh but they were seeing my best freaking reps and those reps for the most part sucked they sucked but now you're gonna see it You're seeing a difference already past a couple weeks, the people who really have notes. But, but, yeah, I had to rely on discipline. So my whiteboard planning, soul searching, just, you know, because so many times I'm drawn to the recliner, and so many times I say, let me just sleep for half an hour. And so many times I would say, nope, I'm not. So then I would start the process, because I know I have to work out.

I have to. if I want to move the rest of the day. Yeah. And every, every ounce of my being is saying, don't do it. Don't do it. So you have to dress the part, number one.

So I have to put my Batman outfit on. And for me, it was like a headband and, you know, just whatever. Put the headband on. Put the watch cap on. It's your costume.

And then you show up. It's your superhero costume. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you show up. You got to show up. It would take me, like half a number of,

hour to an hour to warm up. And then that's it's incredible, Pat. Clint, thank you very much. A friend and former guest of ours. Pat Mac, looking forward to this one, Jack and Dave, you guys have been killing it. Keep it up. Well, thanks, Clint. We're killing it because of people like Pat.

Like, if we're just Jack and I, nobody would fucking watch. Jack and Dave getting drunk every Friday. Exactly. Jameson Price. Thank you very much. Pat, let's take off the gloves and tell all. Do unit badass dudes operate within the kind of U.S. and drive lead into, oh, and drive lead into a whole terrorist? Do they treat you? Well, yeah, they do.

No, no, but before you say, yeah, they do on it, make sure you get the whole question. Do they operate within the continental U.S. and drive lead into a whole terrorist? Oh, oh, oh, oh, in the continental U.S. no, no, no. Staff Sergeant Oman, thank you very much. Where do you think you received the best trade craft training while you were prepping for assignment in Berlin or during OTC or somewhere else? I would say, yeah, Berlin, they were the masters at it, you know, so I learned from those guys. And I remember there was one guy, I won't say his full name, but art. Art carried me around in the city for a few days.

And he would even tell me how to walk. you know yeah and he brought me to second hand stores he says you can't wear all that madrican shit bro you need to wear he's stupid german clothes tight really tight pants yeah just yeah just you know like 20 years behind and the fanny pack yeah spracket the fannie pack yeah and now is the time on sprackets when we die no definitely definitely in berlin uh jackson thank you very much uh is there a cultural difference between squadrons yeah it's funny um there is but I don't think it's as pronounced as the guys there think it is I always tell yeah because there still is and it's still it's it's still the same banter because I know

current unit guys now and they'll talk about it and I go guys that's all fake news man it's freaking fake it's stupid and I know how this materialized I was there when it materialized and it's fake but yeah there there there there is but i think it's more up here right it's not it's more like an image thing than an actual functional thing yeah because i know dudes right now who are in a b c d squatterned and they're all the same dude right they're all the same um jo's got you thank you very much uh was free flow cccb you a thing when you got to the unit was that something something the British SAS created and the unit improved upon.

Yep. That's, uh, yes and yes. 100%. Uh, Jackson, thank you very much. What was the hardest part of selection for you and what would you have done differently if you had to do it again? Woo. Well, this is for you. This is going to sound weird. The hardest part for me was at the end after stress was the board. Mm.

That was the hardest part for me. I, I wish it would just went to. way I remember sitting in the board thinking man I'd rather do a 40 mile or at night right now than this that was the hardest part what would I do differently I wouldn't dig my I dug did myself into a hole you know and and it was because I was I was telling the truth but I was using there was a there was a question guys were ants asking me and it just it was so fucking stupid man um i was using some military cover to answer a question about a previous unit oh and they know the truth right they're not i mean they they were there probably but i was

kind of naive and i thought to myself well maybe i shouldn't talk about it even to these dudes right um and i stuck with it they pressed me and pressed me and so now that they're pressing me i think They just want to see, am I going to stick with, am I going to stay in my circle? Right. Your circle. No. Yeah.

Am I just stay in my circle? Right. Right. Because they pressed me and pressed me and press me on. And I stuck in my circle. Yeah. I just should. I just should have came out and said, oh, yeah, yeah.

That's what I was doing. You guys know all about that. Yeah. And then it would have been a 20 minute board instead of an hour and 20. Right. So they, they, the board asked you about like PSSE and you gave them the cover story of like, oh, we're an MP unit that does training for the legs and. bingo that and then once you had that out there then you can't you can't let your circle go you can't

it was no taking backs he said right yeah yeah yeah you got to stick to your guns yeah they're like they're probably like like like rubbing their hands like oh really yeah dude well at least you know at least you know pat's not an obsec violator they turned it into a yeah they turned it into a sear session yeah damn so that that that was easy one that was easy yep who um um jackson thanks again oh a little bit of a little bit of salt maybe uh how did the unit view dev grew and hr t spicy a little spicy yeah it it um well the unit viewed him very well there you go how about that i just stayed out of that one that was really positive the unit i like that positive Yeah.

Positive upbeat attitude. See, you're, you're good at these board questions now. Dude, I got some real, I got some real good Bernie's at Devgrew. And even, you know, out here, you know, out in this world, some retired guys that I really love. So same cut of the clawed dudes, bro. HRT, I don't know many of them. I don't know many of them. Yeah.

But that was a good, that was a good question. And I'm sticking with my answer. That's a good answer too. Definitely learn from that board. Alessandro, thank you very much. Pat, when you were there, did you grab a chunk of the wall? My folks still have picks of my sister and I chisling off pieces. We were living in Romstein, Romstein in West Germany and happened to be visiting Berlin staying at Temple Hoff Air Force Base. Yeah, yeah, I chiseled up tons of it. And I would make people these little plaques with, and I would, you know, like epoxy. them on to this black and and clear coat them on and within that too i had some of the original there's a fun german word to say some of the original stackel grad which is a barbed wire so it was all rusty you know but once it's clear code it's cool shit but yes absolutely 100% that's very cool and i every time i see romstein i think do hoss um yep once again from uh ania uh

Thanks. Hey, Pat, what do we have to get to do to get a video of you working out with Rudy Reyes? I don't know. That ain't going to happen. I should see Rudy here next month. I'm going to an event and he should be there. I think. I think he'll be there.

But now that ain't going to happen. We're two different styles of stuff, you know. Ahmed Akhtab, thank you very much. Thank you for their service brother. Can you please comment on some contemporary issues? Recruitment problems, counterterrorism, the future, the festering domestic anti-Americanism, keep on. That's a lot there, buddy. That's a lot.

It's a lot. It's supposed to solve America and international politics. What am I running for office? I'm running for office here. You don't want to announce right now? You can announce right now if you've got a, if you've got a political. If you've got a platform. I don't have the stomach for it.

I hate politics and I hate politicians. I despise them on both sides. Yep. But yeah, I didn't. Most of those questions I can remember. Well, we can talk, maybe not general recruitment problem. How do you see like recruitment in like the special ops community right now? Your friends that are in there, is it still healthy?

Is it, are they having issues? It's still healthy. Still healthy there. Yep. The military, though. Yeah. Their numbers are down. Yeah.

I mean, what, 75% of today's youth? is unfit to be in the military. 75%. There you go. Recruitment. Kenneth Jones, thank you very much for the donation. Steve Cortright,

thank you. I found Pat at a vital crossroad in my life. I will forever be... I know Steve. I will forever be grateful for his advice and what it has done to recourse my life. Right on. That's cool.

Yeah, he's a good dude. I've been fishing with Steve. well I he's a part he's a part of that I keep the blaze live coaching squad yeah uh so for people who might be like looking for something outside like a normal like you know from somebody who's really been there um and i don't mean there by special last been there and and like has faked it till they made it um can you tell us again where your coach is on patreon yep and the name it's called the pat mac keep the blaze Alive

coaching squad. Check that out. Alejandro, thank you. Being a fellow metalhead, what bands are you really digging right now? Are there any up and coming ones that you think people should give a listen to?

Yeah, let me think about this. Oh, great. Dude, thank you for that. So I just started, because they're coming out with new album, Born of Osiris. I'm going to go obscure here. I'm not going to go, you know,

another one that I dig is plague, years i hope they do so i hope they do so i hope they do so i hope they get some traction man i just they're really really dark and sludgy you know sludgy and dark yeah because i don't like it i don't like it super fast and just non-stop double base i like you know sludgy and dark and you know like cobblestone streets and and and rusty metal and like a gong bum bum if i had a metal band i'd have a big freak I'd have an anvil in my metal bag. Bats on the belfry. Yeah, right.

Let me see. Plague years. I said, uh, um, I, hmm, dude, you put me on spot. I wish I could have studied that one, you know, because I would have had a laundry list. Well, I'll tell you what. When you get a chance, if you want, like the, the comments below the video, you know, sometime in the next couple days, if you want to leave that list,

I'm sure we have a lot of people above that. Can you share, thank you, Leon Jones. Can you share your workout playlist, basic dude stuff? That's good. Motherfucker, the next time somebody asks me that, I swear to God. I'm going to jump right through this phone. Yep. I put it on every one of my posts for the past.

You know what I built that playlist? 2020 during coronication. I built that because everybody wanted me to build a playlist. So you know what I? I do. Every post, every single post, I put it in there. You know why people don't see it? Because they don't tap on dot, dot, dot, dot, more. So you Instagrammers, dot, dot, dot, more. That's where the notes are. Dot, dot, dot more. So no, I'm not going to share it right here. You do know that you're going to get about a hundred more requests for this now, like throughout. That's right. Yeah, yeah, because now they're getting the goat.

They don't want to poke the bear. Yeah, exactly. People have found that. I'm going to tell him then. I'm going to tell them. So it's Metal Mac Attack. Spotify playlist. Metal Mac Attack. And last question, I believe, unless we have anything new. Oh, we do have one more.

Okay. So two more. Jackson, thank you. Top five high speed LEO guys or units you've trained with. Whoa. Let me see. Let me think about this. I think it did.

Wow. That damn, man. Oh, shit. You put me on the spot because. see a lot of them i don't even remember the county so i i work with these guys in uh wisconsin and i believe it's dane county you know sheriff's department dude they were always freaking badass um really good shooters and fit dudes and just fun as hell um who oh my favorite my favorite eleos are fed are um the um bortac board tech uh board patrol guys yeah yeah it's my favorite yep um um um um

Dig the Secret Service cat team. I know that's, they're still LEOs, but it's federal. Yeah. Because I worked with them a bunch. Ooh, let's see here. Man, there's so many of them in Texas. You know, let's just say Texas in general,

because there's so many, whether you're going to Houston, Austin, Dallas, I mean, wherever it is, there's just tons of them, tons of teams, you know. North Carolina's got a bunch. I work with them here. Not yet. That one there, I would need to, I would need time for that one too.

Sorry. But I did mention a couple. Yeah. Yeah. Wasn't it the Bortak guys who got out in Uvalde? Maybe eventually. Eventually, yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Yep. Yeah, the ones who actually, yeah. And then I think last question here is from Jameson Price. Thank you very much. Pat, is it true that the unit I'm not going to is organized in a way where operators

can be redesigned for instance as a contractor GS, federal employee, military, civilian as mission dictates, are you able to elaborate? That's probably like more into the weeds of. Yeah, that's, that is

definitely in the weeds right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. I appreciate the question. but yeah that's in the weeds and man yeah that that that's how about how about this how about this how about this to some degree how about that fair enough yeah and i apologize to dude for that but yeah the brevity yeah um and and and that's that's it do we have any questions for patreon uh i don't think i don't think we did did we had what we have one d uh uh can you pull it up real quick so uh I don't have it on mine either. Sorry, Pat, we're not prepared.

All right. No worries. So one more time, the website or the Patreon to find it, it's Pat Mac, keep the Blaze alive. They find your coaching service there. Yep, coaching squad. Links will be down in the description. Can you get on the Patreon or on the question?

I'm sorry. I don't have it up here. And it's off of my link tree on my Instagram, too. Everything's on my Instagram. my T-M-A-C-S-I-N-C. T-M-A-C-S-I-N-C. Cool, man. And this Friday, we're going to have a regular episode.

We'll be back. We have Ken coming on, who was a psychologist that worked for the U.S. government, including some of the three-letter agencies, doing profiles on, like, foreign world leaders and stuff like that. So he's going to be a fun interview coming up Friday. I'm on. I don't know how to find it, though, man. I don't get on that.

We have a catastrophe going on here. Yeah. We have a couple of grunts. Okay. I don't see any questions here. Who? Yeah. Yeah.

Did you find a D? All right. Oh, wait. One guy saying, okay, I think I see it. Despite the unit and other tier one units being flush with money and support, mental health specifically suicides continues to be a problem why. I mean, I think we kind of mentioned a lot of. of this like throughout the entire interview.

But any closing thoughts on like perhaps why suicide is an issue even in like well-supported special ops units? Remember what I said, um, that guys were having issues. Hide it. If they're, if they're crying for help, they probably don't. They're hiding it. And you have to assume. I think we have to assume more, you know, because I, just in the past, who, in the past two months,

I've lost two. Oh, man, I'm sorry. Two buds, yep. And, and, and, and, and, and, and it's my, it's like, no, no, no, no, not this guy. There's no way. There's no way. You know, there's no way. There's no way.

So, yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't know, but I think we have to assume. And not everybody, man, you know what? It's, it's overdone. A lot of it's overdone. Man, yeah, we got mental issues. A lot of that's over freaking done. A lot of it. it is. Does it exist? Hell, yeah. It's a real thing. But more, more so, it's not, it's not that.

It's that separation. You know, it's that, uh, separated from the culture. Yeah. Yes, it's leaving something where you, that you, where you had true passion, true love. Um, you know, you had a relationship with people that is intimate on so many different levels. And I'm not talking freaking, you know, sex. I'm talking just very intimate relationship with other human beings. And then you lose that. And then, you know, yeah, you start spiraling. Spirreling. Yeah. Pat, thank you so much for taking some time of you Tuesday evening. I mean, I think you told us, you said earlier, this was the second podcast you did today. So, man, I appreciate. Yeah. I appreciate you going, you know, tuning in and doing this with us tonight. And, you know,

we'd wanted to have you on for a long time. So, I mean, it's awesome to finally do it. If there's anything we can do, hit us up anytime, please. Final thoughts, anything I failed to cover at all that you want to throw out there? No, no, no, no. I want to thank you guys because I do a lot of podcasts. You guys are great hosts and just you made me feel very welcome. And your questions were great too. So, yeah, great.

Because it takes, because some guys don't know how to do this shit. And we want it to be fun too. We want you to have a good time. Yep. Thank you, everybody who tuned in to watch this. Again, thanks, Pat. And we will see all you guys on Friday.