The Team House - SAS Operator | Lindsay Bruce | Ep. 256

Episode Date: February 5, 2024

Lindsay served in the UK Armed Forces with the 22 SAS (Special Air Service) the tier 1 counter terrorism unit most closely compared to the US Delta Force.Check him out here:https://linktr.ee/TheLindsayBruce------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Today's Sponsors:Barbell Apparel⬇️https://barbellapparel.com/teamhouseTo get any pair of jeans, chinos or pants for $99 https://barbellapparel.com/teamhouseHello Fresh⬇️https://hellofresh.com/teamhousefreefor free breakfast for life with your purchasehttps://hellofresh.com/teamhousefree------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------To help support the show and for all bonus content including:https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse-AD FREE AUDIO-AD FREE VIDEO-Access to ALL bonus segments with our guestsSubscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouseOr make a one time donation at: ⬇️https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouseTeam House merch: ⬇️https://teespring.com/stores/my-store-10474963Social Media: ⬇️The Team House Instagram:https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_linkThe Team House Twitter:https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePodJack’s Instagram:https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_linkJack’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21Dave’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/dave_parke?s=21Team House Discord: ⬇️https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6SubReddit: ⬇️https://www.reddit.com/r/TheTeamHouse/Jack Murphy's memoir "Murphy's Law" can be found here:⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Law-Journey-Investigative-Journalist/dp/1501191241The Team Room Reading Room (Amazon Affiliate links):⬇️ https://jackmurphywrites.com/the-team-room-reading-room/Intro music by https://www.youtube.com/user/RemixSampleWant to sponsor the show?Email: ⬇️[e-mail]#sas #specialairserviceBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

Hey guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to talk to you today about a way that you can help support the podcast if you're not already. We would really appreciate it if you guys went and reviewed us on Apple or Spotify. Those reviews really help people find the podcast and help it get recognized. And, you know, if you've been enjoying the show, we really appreciate your support. Another thing that you can do to support the channel is to become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon memberships that start at just $5 a month. And when you sign up, you get access to all of our episodes ad-free. That's the big bonus for that.

I mean, we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for our subscribers. But this is the biggest and best way that you can support the Teamhouse channel and podcast if you'd like to. And we really appreciate that. So go in and check us out at patreon.com slash the team house. Special operations. Covert Ops. espionage, the team house, with your hopes, Jack Murphy and David Park. Welcome to episode 256 of the team house. I'm Jack Murphy, here with Dave Park,

deproducing from the shadows back there in the recesses of our studio. Our guest on tonight's show is Lindsay Bruce. We're really excited to have him on the show today. He served in one of the Scottish regiments, then in the Special Air Service, and today he's a human performance. performance coach. So we're really looking forward to getting into all of that. Real quick, I just want to tell all of our viewers about barbell apparel. You can find them at barbell apparel.com slash team house. And they have a deal going on right now for $99. You can get any pair of jeans, chinos, or pants. Just $99 each. Barbell is one of my favorite companies. They're my favorite company for athletic wear, like stuff you wear at the gym, stuff you want to go running. You even in the winter, if you want hoodies and long pants, or you just want shorts and t-shirts, they're kind of my go-to as far as how well they fit and how comfortable they are to exercise in. So I hope you guys will go and check them out. They have a guarantee.

Most companies offer an ambiguous satisfaction guarantee, but barbell actually means it. They say wear it, use it, hike it, live it, and do whatever your day demands. And if you have any issues at all, they will repair or replace it for you. So please check out our sponsor Barbell Apparel at barbellapparel.com slash Teamhouse. We really appreciate it. They have a lifetime guarantee, size exchange guarantee, and I'll never wear another pair of jeans again. They're comfortable. They're amazing.

They're stretchy. They're my stretchy pants. I love them. So, Lindsay, we'd like to start with you. If you could tell us a little bit about your origin story and a little bit about your upbringing in Scotland and how that led you towards military service. Sure. First of all, thanks for having me on the show.

It's a pleasure to be here. So my childhood, I guess, you know, I was born in Edinburgh, Scotland, so you probably heard of, you know, the capital of Scotland. We're having audio issues right here. Pardon. Sorry. Okay. No worries.

Can you hear me okay? Yes, we got you now. I'm sorry, Lindsay. Same question, if you could, please. No problem at all. Did you hear me saying thanks for having me on the show? show us. No, we did it, but we appreciate that. We apologize for the technical mishap.

Yeah, no problem at all. These things happen, as you obviously noticed before we went live. We'll get there. So yeah, I was born in Edinburgh, Capital of Scotland, you know, I was born there. My dad was in the military. So my dad's self served 12 years in the Royal Highland Fusiliers, which was the regiment that myself and my older brothers ended up joining as well. So I lived in Edinburgh for the the first year of my life. My dad left the military and then we moved to a town called Fort William. So Fort William is a small town population of about 6,000 in the Scottish Highlands. And that's where I spent my whole childhood, various places. And that, you know, that had its

twists and turns and peaks and troughs, but, you know, predominantly brought up in Fort William, but there was a period of time where we lived really out in the sticks, you know, out in the wilderness, pretty much. That was some of the fondest childhood memories because we lived in, there's six of us lived in a caravan. I'm not a gypsy or anything like that before you start thinking that, so I'm not a traveller, but with six of us lived in a caravan for about three years. So my early days, I would say my earliest memories were, you know, living in the caravan, way out in the wilderness in North West Scotland. And it was fantastic memories. And it was fantastic memories. And went to school

sometimes, you know, didn't really do very well at school. I was a dropout pretty much, never had any interest in the school curriculum. I was a drifter, massive attention deficit all through school, no interest. But that obviously led me to doing something in my life,

which was obviously joining the military at the 17 years old. So, you know, that was a massive turning point for me and probably something I would say that I've got a lot to thank the army for because it sort of gave me that base plate, it gave me that foundation to the rest of my life, which obviously still benefits us today being ex-military guys, you know. So, yeah, I'm not sure how much detail you want. I'd like to ask you actually a little bit about that because around that time frame,

well, maybe it was a little bit after. It was more, if I recall, around the time of the Iraq war, didn't it become kind of controversial that there were 17-year-olds joined the British military and being deployed? They weren't... Oh, in fact, you know what? I think there was actually a guy. I remember, right,

because I remember this from my basic training days. I remember what I did my basic training. There was a poster, there was like a newspaper clip, a clipping on the cookhouse wall, or the mess hallways, you guys call it. There was a newspaper cut. There was a guy who was actually from the Royal Scots and he had been,

the youngest British soldier to deploy to Iraq. Wow. But that jogs my memory because I remember when it comes to think, like Northern Ireland, for example, you couldn't deploy until you were 18 years old. Okay. So that was once 17 years old. Tragically, there was an incident that happened with three young Scottish soldiers, actually friends of my dad.

Back in the early 70s, they went out into the city to do some admin and get some stuff. And at that point in the early sort of days of the troubles, there was control over how long you went for where you went, but there was like a curfew, but there was still the ability to go down to the city. So there was an incident that happened where three young boys got murdered basically in cold blood by the Irish Republican Army.

And that then changed the rules for how young you could deploy. So it went from 17 to, I think it was 17 back then, and then they changed it to 80. I'm not sure why Iraq, why they were allowed to deploy at 17, but obviously it did happen. There was one guy who was 17 years old, but other than that, it was 18, yeah.

So what was it like going through the training and then serving in your father's regiment? I mean, it's really a family affair, right? Yeah. Yeah, it was a mixed, there was some mixed feelings with that. It all worked out in the end, There were various reasons why I actually joined the military. It was like a double-sided coin, really.

In one hand, there was me as a young teenager. I'd been in the Army cadets, so I had some kind of flavor of the military, and I'd obviously grown up with it because my father was in, my two older brothers then joined, but they were like seven and nine years older than me, respectively. So they were several years ahead of me. I was only a little boy when they left. And then when it came around to me joining,

I guess there was influence from them, influenced from my dad, and it seemed like a great idea. I had to do something in my life because I dropped out of school. So I didn't have any career prospects. I didn't know what I was going to do. At that point in my life, I was actually working in an engineering firm,

doing welding and fabricating, which I actually liked, but I remember one Friday, No offense to the guys I was with. I remember this one Friday afternoon. I was like, you know, I was 16, 17, just turned 17, and I would get my little pay packet at the end of the week. At the end of the working week, I would have like 20 pounds,

which is like, I don't know, $25. I'd have 20 pounds in my pocket. And I would go to the pub with the rest of the guys, and they were all growing men. And initially there was this novelty of, I'm in the pub and I'm not even 18 yet, and I'm drinking alcohol and I feel like one of the boys

I feel like one of the men and they would buy me a drink because I couldn't really afford to buy them a drink. But then the novelty kind of wore off because I was quite into my fitness back then so I was the guy who would run to work I would run back.

I was really into my fitness and I just, I had this sort of epiphany that the guys who were stood in front of me were maybe 15 years older on average. I thought this is going to be me

this is going to be me in 10 years. Is that what I really want stuck in this town? I love that town. I love visiting the town. But I didn't really see any place for me staying there. So I thought I need to do something. So that's really when I decided to join the military. But the whole military thing really, there was part influence and part.

I need a job. I need to earn money. I want to go and travel. But there was also a huge part of me that thought, you know, I want to kind of level up and be like my older brothers because there was such a gap between me and my brothers. and they had it a bit harder than I did. So they got, you know, they got the sharp end of my dad's nature more than I did.

And I think by the time I was going into adolescence, my mum was like, you know, you're not doing the same to him, you're not discipline. Because they used to get, like, room inspections and shit. You know, my dad was really hard ass on my boss. So I think I kind of, I missed that one. I missed the worst of it. But then what would come with that was my dad would say, because I was maybe allowed to do things

that my brothers weren't allowed to and I was getting away with stuff my dad would be like, your brothers wouldn't have got away with that. You'll never be like them. You'll never, you wouldn't handle the army, all this kind of shit, you know? So I guess there was part of me

that was like, I want to prove you wrong, but I wanted to make him proud at the same time. It was a weird sort of thing got me of. I wanted to make him proud, but I also wanted to prove him wrong because of what he said. Even though he probably didn't mean it, he maybe said that because he knew it would get.

Yeah, like, I'm as tough as my brother. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that was, it was always a case of leveling up. So when I joined that regiment, the Scottish regiment that joined the Royal Highland Fusiliers, it was a great time. But I remember getting there and just feeling really fucking nervous because I thought, my brothers had really good reputations at the time. My dad had a really legendary reputation as a sniper and a great soldier.

He was like this really admired field soldier from the, from the, reconnaissance platoon and he really made his mark in the time he was in so people remembered him there were still there were still guys in the in the battalion at the time who remembered my dad so any time that i didn't level up or didn't didn't do maybe as well in someone's eyes as this they thought that my family had done i was like yeah i'm trying to fill these shoes all the time and so i was told that as well on occasion i was told that you know you'll never be You'll never be as good as your brothers. People were really direct, and I suppose that just had two choices there.

I could either put my hands up and say, you know what, you're right. I'm not as good as my brothers. Or I was going to take the other option of fuck this. I'm going to do something that I'm going to make my own mark and carve my own path and do something that no one's ever done. And that's what I did. Lindsay, can you tell us a little bit how you know, because Scotland is its own country

but it has basically two governments. Not yet. Well, it has a Scottish government right and a UK government. Is that correct? Well, the United Kingdom is split into Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales. Right. So Scotland has its own government system and then

the rest of the country pretty much. Well, Ireland as well obviously, but then the rest of the UK. So they've all got their own, I mean, even Wales has its own system, but Scotland has its own national government as well. So they do things very differently. They work together, but at the same time, they're separate. Right. So how does it work for the military in terms of, like when you go to basic, is it a British basic? Is it a Scottish basic?

How do they form? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so that's changed over the years as well. And so, I mean, it changed shortly after I joined, actually, and they did more of a combined thing. It just got a lot bigger. I'm not entirely sure how they do it now, but back when I was a recruit, all the Scottish regiments would do their own training, but we also had English regiments in the same basic training depot. So we were in it together, but it would, and it would sometimes mix as well.

So sometimes you would get the mix, but it was essentially all the same curriculum. So the basic training for the British Army is all the same. It's not like the Scottish regiments have a different set of tactics or procedures. It's all exactly the same. So the British Army is one blanket of, you know, curriculum and SOPs, really. It's interesting. And then is there, is there, like, do you have, are there English members in like the fusiliers or are they just, I know it's a Scottish unit. But can somebody from Ireland or somebody from England join the fuseliers?

They can, yeah. It's not common, but it goes by area. So it goes like this. If you walk into a careers office, the recruitment officer is going to try and get you to join the regiment that they want people to join. So, you know, Glasgow was the recruitment office that was predominantly for the Royal Highland for useliers. But I went to a place called Inverness. Inverness was north of Port William so it wasn't Royal Highland Fuselier

territory and it all go It's a geographical thing So if you live in Glasgow you go to a Glasgow If you're maybe in the outskirts of Glasgow You might go to the Argyll and southern London Islanders Or you might go to the King's own Scottish port So there's back then it's all changed now The manning's all changed and it's all called

It's like the Royal Regiment of Scotland And it's like one Scots, two Scots, three Scots and so on and so forth But back when I was so I can only speak from when I was a recruit, there was six Scottish regiments, two had recently been amalgamated, so there was seven, and there was six, and depending on where you lived,

would depend on, would dictate you to say, which one you joined. However, when I joined, I was marched up to the careers office in Inverness, my two brothers saying, here's our little brother, he wants to join the Royal Highlands for his liars. And there was no question.

You do the entrance test and everyone else gets this choice of, well this is the you could actually join the engineers or you could join this core the med corps or whatever I didn't get that choice it was just it doesn't matter how fucking good you're doing the test you're going to the Royal Highland fusiliers right that was it you know I was kind of like told you're going there and I wanted to go there anyway because I wanted to be like them you know I just wanted to follow the footsteps and you know follow the follow the family tradition I thought that would be pretty cool and you said

that now the Royal Highland fusiliers are the they're the two Scots that's called the two Scots now so they're now two Scots yeah Okay. Is that because you guys stopped using fuscles and so they had to rename it? Yeah, something like that. It's way above my period, why they chose to change that name. And so how was it as a young man getting on in this unit where you have a family reputation that sounds like it was hanging over your head a little bit, but at the same time, it sounds like you were pretty enthusiastic about being there.

It was quite daunting, really. It was quite intimidating because you just feel that you're constantly being watched and judged and, you know, compared us essentially. And my two brothers were very different between themselves as well. You know, they took different paths. One of my brother played the bagpipes. He was also, so he was in the military band, the pipes and drums, and he was also like a machine. That was also like the machine gun platoon.

So he was like specialised in machine guns, like heavy machine guns. And my other brother stayed mainstream like I did. And, you know, so we had similar parts. but he just decided to obviously stay in that regiment. They both served a full time. I only did half my service. They both did full time. But that was when my career took a different path,

obviously when I left that regiment, came down to Hereford and joined the SAS. I made my own way. I think I got to the point where I started thinking for myself, that was the difference really, because it was kind of like monkey see, monkey do. I want to just be like them. I want to be like the dad.

and at some point that just turned into right I need to start making my own decisions for what I want not what I think other people

want me to do and I always wanted to go I've always been a bit I've just always been one of those people who if I get into something I need to know everything about it if I get into something

I need to do you know one more it's like I need to go the full way I need to do everything with everything in my life I've always been quite an extreme kind of

must do everything can you guy. I don't know why. So the Royal Highland Fusselaers is basically a battalion size infantry or you're right? Yeah. And then could you mention that your dad was a sniper? How was it split up? And then what, did you stay on the

line the whole time? And what was the training like for the different elements? So when you when you join the infantry, everyone in the British Army does the same. It's called Phase 1 and Phase 2. Again, I'm not sure how it works these days. And Pretty sure it's not changed that much, but when I joined it was like 10 weeks.

You do 10 weeks basic, and that's a standard British Army basic training that every single person does. And then after the phase one training, you go to phase two, which is then another 11 weeks, I think that was. So it's 21 weeks all in. And that's when you do the combat infantry school part of your basic training, where it's infantry specifically you learn different weapon systems, and you don't learn to be a sniper or anything. but you learn anti-tank weapons and stuff like that. So, yeah, I guess it's just split into two, but one part is just like training to be an infantry man.

Then you go to your battalion, you know. And then the battalion had a machine gun section, recce section. Yeah, yeah. So there's like, the way they do it is like rifle companies are like the main sort of infantry companies, the mainstream companies, then you have the support companies, support company, which has got like your machine gun platoon, your Milan platoon, anti-tank platoon, mortars,

and then you got the reconnaissance platoon. So, you know, the reconnaissance platoon was always kind of like the bit that everyone wanted to. If you're really keen and you wanted to be a soldier, the RECI was like the place to go. I didn't go to the RECI, but, I mean, that was kind of, I still had a little bit mystique about it. You know, that's again, I guess when I joined, we were armored, we were mechanized infantry, so we were warriors, you know, NPCs.

but so it kind of lost I would say the Recky then didn't have the same kind of mystique as it once did maybe when it was all on foot before it was mechanised but we would do like when we were in Germany we did like I think it was five or seven years

the regiment was in Germany and that's when we had the mechanised responsibility so then you would go back to another role you might go air mobile or something like that as an infantry unit so it's like re-learning a new trade They used to move around all the time. Now they stay in the one place.

So my old regiment is permanently in one place now, whereas they used to go all over the place, Cyprus, Germany, Scotland, whatever. Oh, and for like deployments or it would be stationed there for a period of time? No, no, it was stationed. You changed station completely. Oh, interesting. And they would do maybe five years, sometimes seven. And that's changed now.

I think it's a good thing that it's changed because it gives people stability. Yeah. That was always a bit of a ball. Especially for people who were married or whatever. And obviously kids haven't to change school and all that sort of stuff as well. So talk to us a little bit about this sort of like fork in the path where you decided you wanted something different for yourself. And how did that thought, how did that idea kind of germinate in your mind and come to fruition?

When I was a boy, I mean, although I wasn't necessarily someone who was always going to go to the military, it wasn't like from a really young age, I was like, all I want to do is be a soldier. I had different ideas. I didn't really know. I mean, I had loads of ideas when I was a kid. You know, I wanted to be a professional snooker player. That was my main thing. So I don't really have snooker in the US.

You probably know what it is. It's like pool, but it's just a bigger table. And smaller balls too, right? I think. I don't know. Yeah, the American pool balls are a little bit bigger, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So I played that a lot as a kid, and I was really good at it. And all I wanted to do is become a professional. Because it was something that was, I wasn't really much of a team sports guy when I was a kid. I was always last to be picked it for the football team or the soccer team. I was always like the guy who was like the sub. Oh shit at football. My son's really good, but I was crap.

And so I liked individual sports. I always like to go running, to go to the gym, to play snooker, to do anything that was that was isolated, it was an individual thing because it was very competitive at the same time and I only wanted to rely on myself. So there were various things I wanted to do as a kid. Snooker player was one. There was a short time that I was deluded enough to think I could be a footballer,

but I wasn't good enough at any point. So that was a very short-lived dream. But I suppose it's like anything. Kids in general, they want to be an astronaut, they want to be a pop star, they want to be an actor. And then as you get older, that belief system kind of channels into a more realistic, really.

And you're like, oh, I just need a job, you know, I just need to do something. I'll join the army because I get paid and I get accommodation, I get fed. It'll be a good laugh, you know. So, although I wasn't ever one of those guys who was always going to join the military, there was still enough interest there. And there was things like, there was movies I would watch,

like the Wild Geese. Have you never seen that? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, Where Eagles Dare, Clint Eastwood and all. And then the main one, on was a film called Who Dare's Wins? Wow.

With Lewis Collins where, you know, a bunch of these extremists take over the American embassy and then the SES do this rescue mission. And it's all quite cheesy, but it's, you can't not, no one that I know doesn't like that film. It's just, it is a benchmark, right? So I guess as a kid, I watched that and I just, I was blown away by like how fucking cool this was. And I was like, these guys, this is just amazing.

I was always fascinated by that movie. And then that same Christmas that I saw the movie, I got the action man figure with the eagle eyes, you know, and he was the guy who was dressed with the black, all the black gear with the respirator. Yeah, yeah. And he looked like the SES guy. There's a Stormtrooper version of this.

It's a very collectible piece now in Parliament. So I remember being kind of obsessed with that whole thing when, you know, the Iranian Embassy was live on British TV when they stormed the building to do the rescue mission. And that was like when that kind of put the regiment on the map publicly because no one really knew much about them at that point. So that was like, here they are. And so when I joined the army, I guess being the way I am,

I didn't just want to join the army. I thought, what's the best part of the army? Well, it's the SES. Also, my older brother was very keen to join the SAS as well, so he used to speak about it a lot. and by the time I joined the army I remember like the first week in basic training it was myself and my friend

were sat next to each other and the platoon commander said you know these are all the different regiments he was clicking through all these different factions of the army across the board and then the last one he got to was the special air service he said is anyone know what this is and we're like

yeah it's the SAS would anyone ever think they'd want to join this and me and my mate put her hands up. There was only two of us out of about maybe 30, 40 people. And we put her hands up. And then I joined about five years later. And I always had the seed. The seed was always planted. Because there was always this, I always felt like I was physically fit.

You know, I was always really confident with regards to my physical capabilities. So when I joined basic training, I had been someone who, I was going to the gym. I was the fucking weirdo who, we'd go to the leisure center, like, where the surround pool was and stuff, and there was a gym there. And all my friends would go to the, go and jump in the pool, and I'd be like, guys, I'm going to the gym,

see you in an hour. And I'd go to the gym and with my homemade, fucking stringer vest on and flexing my muscles. No one else was in the gym. So I was really fit, and I'd run everywhere. So when I come to joining the Army,

I was, like, fucking beating everybody. Everything. Pool ups, push-ups, running. I was just, like, one of the fittest guys, like, in my intake. So I had a lot of confidence. So when it came to going on courses, learning new skills,

I always had that part pushed aside. I used to think, okay, I've got that covered. I know I'm fit, so I don't need to worry about am I going to be able to do this? I know I can't. So that confidence then obviously encourages your belief system. So it's like that whole cycle of you've got potential, you release potential by taking action. The more action you take, then you're going to get a better result.

The better the result, the stronger your beliefs, because you've got historical proof to prove that you can do something. So I guess by the time I ended up going to the SCS, it felt like a natural progression to me. I thought I need to do this because I didn't really think of myself as being a super soldier. At the same time, I just had that, well, I've got nothing to lose mentality. What's the worst that can happen? I don't pass.

I get injured. I don't make it. But if I never try, then I know I'll regret it. So the seed was there early on, and thankfully, I did follow it through. Yeah, real quick, sorry to interrupt you, Lindsay. We need to do a shout out to our second sponsor. Thank you very much, Hello, Fresh. Thank you very much, Hello Fresh.

With Hello Fresh, you get Farm Fresh, pre-portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. So here's what Hello Fresh is, for those of you who don't know. It's a meal kit, right? It's a meal kit that you're going to cook. They send you, you get on, you go on their website. you order the different meal kits. They have tons of great recipes, recipes you wouldn't even think of. They send you all the ingredients you need.

They give you the recipe to cook it, and you look like a stud when you pull off these fancy meals for your significant other. Or a stud-at, however it is. But you avoid costly and bad takeout and delivery. You avoid the grocery store. They can gear the meals, you know, for. for your particular diet type. It's a fantastic experience. We all love it.

There's no more staring blankly in the fridge, wondering what you're gonna make for dinner. We give HelloFresh a try and dig into their biggest menu with over 45 recipes to choose from each week. Go to HelloFresh.com slash Teamhouse free and use code TeamHouse for free breakfast for life. You heard me. Free breakfast for life.

One breakfast item per box while subscription is active. That's free breakfast for life at hellofresh.com slash team house free with code team house. Hey, it's America's number one meal kit. Highly recommend it. So, Lindsay, tell us how selection went for you, because, I mean, you show up your super in shape, but I mean, this is maybe the most challenging selection course on the planet. Yeah. And to put that, to make that worse at the time, you know, it's easy to let a lot get in your head, you know. We let a lot get in our heads anyway in general, I think, as human beings.

And the only thing I would say back then is that when you've got, when you're in an infantry battalion, for example, and there's always the guy, there's always the guy who's like the favorite, the hot product who is really switched. on, he's fit, he's capable, his career's doing really well, and then that guy goes and tries SCS selection, and then he comes back within a few weeks, sometimes a few days. So then what does that do to the people who feel, you know, below his skill set or capability? They're going to go, well, if he can't do it, then what chance have I got? So that was always a common thing with most people. So traditionally we didn't send

people at all. Hardly anyone fired for selection and that made it even worse because there was no law of average. There was no numbers going. There was not like I guarantee I would guarantee if they drove that within our battalion

there was enough guys who were good enough but they had to send volume and it was a case of just it just wasn't the done thing. It wasn't normal for us to go for selection. It was very bizarre very one-off. Once there'd be few someone would have a cop and then usually they'd always come back because no one I was the first I was the first guy to get in since the 70s.

Wow. It'd been that long a gap and it wasn't because I was anything special. It wasn't because I was better than everyone. It wasn't it was it was because I just thought, okay, I'm going to do it and why not me? Right, right. Why not me? And it's one thing I always encourage people to think when they're thinking about. doing something that's made me challenges.

Like always ask yourself a question, why, why not me? The same people will buy a fucking lottery ticket. There's a lot less chance of winning the lottery than the rest to pass on the course you have control of, for a point. So it's people just don't put themselves forward because it means being vulnerable, it means chances of, you know, the fear of failure, the fear of being judged. No one expects you to pass because of no one else has passed beforehand. So, yeah, he'll be back.

It won't be long. He'll wait a couple of, you know, a few days, few weeks. He'll be back. And I know people would have said that about me. Why wouldn't they? And then all of a sudden, this little guy from Fort William doesn't come back, he's gone. You know? And that was my story, really.

And so what was your experience at Selection when you got there? It was, you know, I've got some great memories. I loved Selection. I know that sounds crazy. It wasn't easy. It was fucking hard. Of course it is. but that's what is

what is so rewarding that it's not difficult it has to be difficult but for me I guess the best thing I did was go when I was so young I was young enough to put up with the bullshit be fucked around from morning till night and just keep going and I didn't have that that ego of

you know thinking that I can't be told what to do and this is something that I saw as a bit of a problem at times especially when you're on a course and the whole way through that course at any moment you can just put your hand up and say this isn't for me anymore I want to go home and they'll go see you later

there's the door no one's going to argue with you no one's going to stop me because if they've got to do that you're not the right guy for that regiment right so it's very much it's a volunteer regiment you are a volunteer no one's making you be there so no one's going to stand in your way

if you want to go home as simple as that so when I got to there. I remember some advice I got from my brother. And he said, look, the best way to think about this is not to overthink it and build it up to this big thing that everyone does.

He said, it's just a course. You're going on a course to learn some cool stuff. And if you're good enough, you'll pass. If you're not, then, hey, as long as you give it your best. So the way that I went on the course with the attitude that I had was like, I'm going to lean into the process,

I'm going to try my best. and if they want me, amazing. If they don't, then I'm just not good enough. But one thing is for sure, I'm definitely not going to voluntary withdraw, which is what most people will do. This is the thing as well with the Special Forces in the UK. It's a joint Special Forces selection process. So you've got the SAS, the SBS back then.

Now they've even got a couple more regiments that do the same initial selection process. But then it branches off. so the SAS and the SBS do the jungle and I don't think anyone else does that. So for us at the time, back in January 2000 I did, I started selection. And it was SPS and SAS joint special forces selection process.

And when I went there, I just thought, you know, I'm going to just, I'm just going to lean into this, do as best I can, and I'm going to learn as much as I can. If I don't get in, I'm going to go back to my battalion, a much better soldier with much more knowledge and experience however I also thought to myself if I don't pass I'll probably leave the army

because I was kind of sick of it at that point it wasn't really for me the infantry wasn't for me it was too much bullshit there was too much emphasis on what you have to do in camp to keep yourself fucking smart and you know painting the grass green

and shit like when they had a royal visit and I was like I just want to be in the field and do cool soldiery stuff you know and that was my That was why I joined the Army. Yeah. And did you find that after you graduated from Selection started SAS training? Yeah, so you go there when you, so you have to apply to join the SAS.

Obviously, you do it off your own record. They can stop you if they want, but I was very lucky at the time. I had a couple of guys. My company commander at the time in my battalion was really supportive. He thought it was a great idea. He respected me for doing it. an amazing guy, really good leader.

And I remember he said, look, and I've got a lot to thank him for because I was out in Kosovo at the time and we still had about maybe a month and a half, two months left of the tour. And he said, look, just go. Because when I went on selection, you do like a pre-selection course,

so it's like a three-day thing. You come to Hedford and you do this pre-course. And then at the end of that pre-course, So they then say, you're ready or you should maybe wait six months, 12 months. And sometimes they'll say, this isn't for you. You're never going to, you know, you're not the right cut. So I went and did this three-day thing, and I expected to be going like six months afterwards or seven months afterwards.

And then what happened was I got to the end of this pre-selection, did really well on all the tests, and the guys said, look, we'll see you in January. And this was November. So I was like panicking now. I was on a flat spin out to see. I said, what do you mean is I'm not going to be ready? And he says, you're ready, you're ready, don't worry. Just don't do it.

Don't overdo it. Don't over train. You get fit on the course. You're young. You'll be absolutely fine. Come and do it in January. So I went back to my battalion. He said, look, they want me to go in January.

And my OC was like, well, why not? Why aren't you just getting excited about it? Just go for it. And I says, well, I'm not going to have enough time to train because I'm out here. and he says go home then he says don't want to see you again so he sent me home to Scotland which was loads of fucking mountains up in Scotland

so myself and my brother used to train up there so I went and did my preparation up in my own my hometown and the surrounded areas of my hometown which is the Scottish Highlands so I was very lucky very fortunate that they let me get away and get myself prepared for it

and then that was that you know started the course and when you start selection it's a six-month process and the first four weeks it's done in like modulated blocks so the first month is what they call aptitude which is down in the breck and beacons

and another place called Elan Valley which I'm actually going there tomorrow funny enough but you do the hills phase which is pretty much getting from A to B with a certain amount of weight in a certain time, certain distance and all they want to see is you've got the aptitude

and the grit determination to get yourself through that physical test because that's a mental and physical test but it's you're not being tested as a soldier at that point it's really just about an endurance capability of the man and they'll lose a lot of people you know there's probably 250 guys I think start and by the end of that phase is probably 50 left so they do they do separate the wheat from the chaff pretty quickly and then what's the next phase after that so after that you do four weeks so you do a month on the hill you do a series of tests.

The last week is like a, call it test week. You do a series of test matches, individual. You've got to, you know, get distance time speed in the set times or under, or you don't pass. So you've got to pass those tests. That culminates with what they call endurance, which is like a 65 kilometre hill march. You know, you've got like 20 hours to do that. Most people get in around the 18, 18, sort. of our mark. And then if you pass that and then you then come to Hederaford and do, you start

to do the pre-jungle training. So we do like a couple of weeks. I think it was actually about four weeks. You do like a pre-jungle or two, maybe two weeks. I think it's actually two weeks. You do two weeks in the UK learning jungle drills. So they teach you all the all the jungle tactics, the basic tactics for when you then start to go out to, when you go to the jungle. And then you can put in your patrols and stuff like that. And you go to, you go through everything. You learn all the lessons, they teach you loads of stuff obviously in the classroom. You do

practice drills, try training, and then when you go out to Brunei, that's when you start the jungle phase. And that was when, I would say that right at the beginning of that was probably one of the most times that I felt the most pressure. Because you do

the live firing phase. So you go out to the ranges for the first week, it's all live firing. And the live firing ranges always as a soldier, it's always something that you get, it can get you quite anxious because it's live ammunition, you know,

don't want to fuck something up because there's a lot more safety involved, you're being watched like a hawk by several directive staff that are all very experienced SES guys. So you're really, really under the microscope at that point. It's not like you just get your grid reference and then you fuck off to the next grid reference and you're on the hill

no one's there to watch you or anything like that. You can kind of pick your nose and scratch your ass and no one's going to see it. When you go to jungle training, they are watching you like a fucking hawk. They don't miss a thing, you know. And when it's live firing, you know, everything's getting marked, everything's getting judged,

and you have to pass it, you know, and it's something that people do fail that, and people do make massive fuck-ups because the pressure gets to them. They either make a safety mistake, or they leave the pouches open or the drop stuff, and it could be anything, but you're being marked the whole time and I would say out of the whole process

that was when I felt most sort of like fucking the pressure's on here but thankfully I was pretty good at it so didn't struggle with anything but it was pretty nerve wracking and then you go into the jungle after that so you do you do four weeks under the canopy

and that is an exercise called Atapp hurdle which is the SES selection process in the jungle where you are then again scrutinized and you're under the microscope for or 28 days in the jungle, and that tests and character. It's interesting because the SAS and the SBS are often compared, you know, to like Delta or SEAL Team 6 in the counterterrorism realm. But SAS has this long tradition of focus, or at least an initial focus on jungle warfare,

where other American units, you know, they might have, back in the day, it might have gone down to Fort Sherman and Panama to do some jungle training, whatever. But is it because of like the SAS's history that jungle warfare is still kind of a focus of theirs? I think that was something that was obviously done a lot, especially the Bonneal campaign, the Malaya campaign. There's a lot of experience during those times with the old school guys that were in the SES back then. but I guess everything comes down to the strategy of the manning process so it's a bit like I said earlier about the Scottish Regiments someone at some point says that we need to restructure this

and it just comes down to the strategic capabilities at the end of the day so I mean there was something that changed when I joined even which I was actually really thankful for so when it comes down to the manning obviously the director of special forces and all the head honchos down there that make all the big decisions. It's just a capability thing. What do we need?

Who do we need? Where do we need them? If this happens, what do we need the capability to be? So we would test capabilities. When I was in the regiment, the commander officer would say, right, the Redd Special Forces has said that you need to do,

he wants the capability of a Sabre Squadron to do a two-mile surface swim at night from two miles out of shore. tactical over fucking, you know, beach landing and all that sort of stuff. And so you would get these things all the time in various

capacities. But when it comes to, you know, like the capabilities of that were changed when I joined. So I joined boat troops. So we would actually work closely with the SPS. So we did our insurgent course with the SPS. So

when I first joined, you joined the regiment, you passed selection. And then you go and do your troop capability. So there are four troops and four Saber Squadrons. So each Saber Squadron is essentially like a mirror image of each other. So you get A squadron, B squadron, D and G. And then within those squadrons, you have a boat troop, you have a free fall troop, you have a mobility troop, and you have Mountain Troop.

Right. So each guy that joins each respective troop will then go to do his specialist skill for that troop. And then after that, you're going to do your specialist patrol skill. which is either demolitions or patrol medic. So when I went down to pool, did my boat course with the SBS. We all did that together,

the SES, SPS guys all do the boat course. And then the next thing that we were supposed to do was the dive course, the O2 diving. Now, I did like a dive aptitude when I got there, ended up bursting my fucking eardrum, had a really bad experience. And it was the first time in the whole process of anything I did special forces

that I thought, fucking going to be good at this. I don't like it. Maybe if I did it enough, I would have been competent, but I fucking hated it. I almost drowned a few times as a kid. I had a real fear of, ironically had a real fear of water going into the regiment, and then they put me in boat troop. And I always remember, like me and one of my best mates at the time, we were both getting told we were going to boat troop. So we went to see the training officer. He says, right, Bruce, and my mate's thick of name is Row. He says, Bruce and Rowan, boat troop. And we were stood there and I was like, you know, I'm happy to be here.

I'll go anywhere you put me. Even if I don't like it is an initial idea. It turned out I loved boat troop, but at the time I was like, hey? And my mate said, well, he said, I'm not very good at swimming. He was a shit swimming as well. I'm not very good at swimming. And the training officer says, you don't need you be able to swim. You be in a fucking boat.

Get out. But then shortly after that, they took the dive capability away from me. the SES. So we would all do, so the boat troops and the SBS would do diving capability. And about a couple of weeks before I was supposed to go on my dive course, I was shitting myself because I just didn't like being in the water, and not under the water anyway. They said, we're going to, they've taken the capability away. So they took the free fall capability away from the SBS. They took the dive capability away from the SES and they just said, right, you have the lot. Right, right. Right. Right. And so yeah. So that's how it,

basically works. Yeah. It's very interesting. So after the jungle training, so this is still, like when we think a selection, we think of a four week, like we think of the four week,

you said it was aptitude. Brack and Beacons and all that. Aptitude, yeah. Aptitude, right. But for you guys, it's sort of like Green Team or OTC or whatever. Right, right. You're,

it's, even though you've passed selection, it's still selection. Yeah. throughout your initial training, right? Well, you do, well, that's not, selection is six months long, so people think of the SES selection process of the hills, because that's kind of what's most.

That's the first part you do, and it's probably the bit that most people know about. But that is essentially only the aptitude for the rest of the course. So that's really the start point. You're off the starting blocks at that point, but you've just passed the first hurdle, and it's certainly not the most difficult one. The hardest part of selection, I think,

when it comes to all things that are included. So not just the physical side of things, but when it comes to the mental side of things, how resilient you are mentally, that's when your character is tested more so because you're assimilating new skills. You have to work in a small team. You have to be someone who kind of is a team player.

And there's a lot of guys who get found out. It exposes weaknesses in people, like no other climate, the jungle, because it's a very testing environment. You need to have patience in the jungle because you can lose your ship pretty easily. I always remember one day I was on a patrol. And we used to use M16s then on selection, which are quite a long weapon, obviously, as you know. It's not like the M4, which is a shorter version. M16 are quite a long weapon to have in the jungle.

And you had the black firing attachment, you're probably familiar with these anyway, guys. So the black firing attachment you have on an M16 or an M4, there's this little T-bar at the top that you turn. So it's like a little T-bar coming out at the top of your weapon and then every fucking time, you'd either trip in a piece of vine with your boots or you're tired and shit, you know, so you trip on a piece of vine

or the BFA, the blank fire attachment, always get caught in a piece of vine hanging down and you'd be like walking and then all of a sudden your fucking weapon's back there. And I knew it. And I remember one day I was like, I would just be in an angry, great Scotsman. And this happened one too many times. I was like, for fuck sick. You know,

and I lost my shit, and I got caught. So a guy called Noel, who was my director of staff in the jungle, he was a fucking legend in the jungle. This guy, he was like a ghost, like a ninja. And he, I turned around and he was just sat there crouched down in the shadow of this big tree. And he's fucking like eyeball sticking out looking at me. And I thought, oh, fuck, he's the, he just used to pop up everywhere. I was like, how many of the, guy, is there? So then afterwards, we had a debrief, and he was Northern Irish this

guy, so he says, he says, Bruce, he says, one word of advice, don't fight the fucking jungle, he'll never win. And I always remember that, and he's right, you know, but he gave me a pass, he's like, you know, let you away with that one, but stop losing your fucking temper.

And so, yeah, it's a very testing environment, you know, everything you've got to do, and you've got the opportunity to leave. So this test, this is such a profound test of mental resilience because at any time you can just go fuck this. I'm all, I'm sweaty,

I'm tired, I'm hungry. I'm sick of being scrutinized all the time, especially if someone makes a fuck up. You used to always find that people that can't take criticism, people that can't get over the fact that they've made one mistake so then they'll let it get to them get in their heads and they go, oh fuck, what's the point

to staying here because I'm not going to pass? Next thing you know they're on the helipad the next morning fucking on the helicopter away out of the jungle. So it's really, you know, a case of if you can stick, if you can stick it out and get to the end, pass or fail, the main thing is you need to just keep going. And that's what most people don't do. They just put their hands up and say, I've had enough.

So when you come out at the jungle phase, I mean, when you finish the jungle, that's really when they say at that point that whoever's left after that point is like they call it the hardcore element. And they expect the people who are left at the end of the jungle phase, they really expect them to be there right at the end. So at that point, by the way, you're only halfway through the selection process. So when you come back from the jungle, you're three months into a six-month process. And then the next three months is then modulated into different blocks.

So you've got like observation posts, you've got combat and survival, you've got communications, you have your parachute course, All these things are obviously modulated counterterrorism course. So these are just, you're learning all the little skills that are required for the entry-level trooper in the S-A-S to get to the squadron. When you get to your squadron, that's when you start continuation training. So the first thing you've got to do is your insurgent skill, be it boats, mountain, mobility or free fall. You then do your insurgent course that makes you capable to be in that skill set for the troop that you're in. And then when you're in the troop, you then do your specialist skill within your patrol,

which will be one or two things, either patrol medic or demolitions. So it does go on for quite some time. And obviously that's one of those things in the military that you're always doing something new and learning new things and skills. And then the capability of each squadron that rotates. So it's like a two-year cycle, what it was back then. It used to be in a two-year rotation whereby you go into standby squadron. you go and you do the counter tennis team for six months.

So you're always moving around as like a carousel of activities. And so by the time that you finished your initial training and get to your troop and become, you know, an active, you know, operator, I'm guessing this is about 2001 now. No, 2000, so six months. Yeah, so you do your continuation training from the squad. You're actually in the squadron. Gotcha. So when you pass the six-month selection process, you get badged.

you get your belt and berry and then you go to the the saber squadron and from there you then do your insurgent skills and all that sort of stuff but the troop skill is pretty early you do that straight away everyone does that straight away and then you do your you can sometimes wait six months to a year before you do your specialist patrol scale oh wow interesting and being this is 2000 you know obviously there are there are there are operations but it's nothing like the post-list 9-11 world. What was like the SAS's primary focus during this time? So, so I guess when I joined and I had biased in 2000, went straight to the squadron. You know, there was there was a bit going on for that first year. We did some exercises around the

world and went some places, but then 9-11 happened and I had only been in like just over a year at that point. So it was kind of, my career was kind of like the perfect storm really. or if you want to join you want to do shit, then I was quite lucky in the sense that, I say lucky, but you know, take that how you will. But I was, people don't join the SS to sit in camp and do nothing. They join for a reason.

Right. You want to go in operations. So that is your primary focus, so that is your primary focus that you want to get on operations and you want to get noisy. So when 9-11 happened, obviously that, you know, I'm going to set the world in fire. speak and Afghan

is obviously the main one so we were actually on a training exercise in the Oman and then we got the word that we were going to go to Afghanistan so we went from the Oman doing a mobility exercise and we went straight to Afghanistan we went to Bagam Airfield

when it was just attended camp there was nothing there there was mines all over the place we were still cleaning the place for mines who were living in tents I mean there was fucking I remember the first ever PX that was in Baggram Airfield and it was a fucking what we call a tuck shop was about the size of my living

smaller in this room and it was like some like chocolate bars and some cans of cola and that was kind of it you know and then the PX was fucking built a city was built within about 12 months but yeah that was my first experience of Afghanistan was going out into the

into Bagam Airfield and then we deployed from the we used that as a fob that was our fobid operating base and then we had a full squadron there and we split into two half squadrons one half on foot one vehicles and our remit was to clear potential areas where the Taliban could have been

hiding in the caves and whatnot so we just been deployed in you know in different capacities and spent like weeks weeks searching for you know potential hideouts you know that was my first real that was my first real operations with the special forces apart from things like

little little you know a few days to Bosnia to be do some arrest stuff and whatnot about it. That was kind of, kind of tame in comparison. But, yeah, Afghan was my first real taste of operations. And then obviously after that, Iraq happened in 2003, so like a year later. And then from that point, really, I did a lot of small team stuff. So, like, small team tasks, doing security for intelligence services and other small team stuff.

And that was like you were here there and everywhere. And again, because we rotate, there was different squadrons. would then take over the operational capability, then you go back to being on training again, so you go back to being on standby squadron or counterterrorist squadron, and that's how it all works. So you're never really in the one spot

doing the one thing for that long. You know, it was probably, like, before I left, it was probably like a few months at a time. Yeah. And then eventually they started doing six-month tours again, which was an unheard-off thing when I first joined, and before that, no one went away for six months. It was always very short-term, three months, probably max.

and then the six-month tours in Iraq were quite a thing for quite a few years. So when you guys first got to Afghanistan, was there a solid idea of what your command, were you subordinated to, like, U.S., to a general command? Was there an idea of what you guys were doing, or were you guys just kind of pitching in where you could? we were essentially searching and taking and dominating ground so we were securing areas for then like the Royal Marines for example when we were there to start with we would we would we would go out and search an area and you know essentially searching for fucking aliban but when there was an area that was cleared then like they were like high features and dominant ground in the landscape

that we would then get ready for the Marines to come in and they would then take that position over and they would man that as a position so that it was just, you know, it was presence. But at the same time, when it comes to strategy and this is something that I, you know, results leave clues. So the SES was always,

it was not always notorious for its more covert stuff. So, you know, we weren't typically a fighting force. It was more to like surveillance and reporting on things that were going on to then let battalions come in and fucking run over it. So that's what the infantry's for, right? So there wasn't that many of us because we weren't fucking, no one's, you know, indispensable, but the regiment's not that big. Right. So they were very precious about where they would put us. And obviously, you know, we weren't essentially a fighting force in that sense or that wasn't our primary focus.

we would be in there to report and stuff and gather intelligence and whatnot. It was more sneaky beaky. But at the same time, there's a time in a place that that works. It works fucking great in the jungle. Doesn't work in Afghanistan. Right.

So back to 91, you know, back in the first Gulf War, when you look at, when the SES went in there, there was obviously a couple of things went really fucking bad because the strategy was wrong, because they were sending guys in, eight-man patrols on, foot on a fucking surface like a pool table. Right.

You know, so there's nowhere to hide. So when it came to being in these areas, when we actually went to Afghanistan, we sat in an op-meant, we sat on a debrief from the Kiwi. So the Kiwi S-A-S had been there before us, actually. And they had tried to go out and be covert in small teams, and they aborted the missions and came back and said,

look, guys, you cannot fucking hide. hide anywhere. And if anyone watching this has seen the film Alone Survivor, probably a good depiction of

how it actually feels and looks out there. It's actually very well made there's very well made parts of that movie that it really reminds you

of the terrain out in Afghanistan. I didn't know where that was filmed that movie but it's quite fucking accurate in some ways.

So when we went out of there we thought, well, if you can't hide, the only other thing to do is is show force. Right. It's a detective then.

And it's basically standing there saying, you can come towards us, but you better be fucking ready because we're ready. That's kind of the message route. And that was, that carried over into Iraq as well.

So we went into Iraq. It was very different than 91. You know, 12 years later, it was a very different story. We went out of there, we went on force, and we showed a presence because there's no fucking point otherwise

because you can't hide. Right. We're doing what we were doing. You know, this session for WMD's and Shirley. that they weren't there funny strangely enough weren't there that's another story for another day and how would you guys because a lot of times when you know u.s like tier one units or you know deploy they they'll use a subordinate unit or another unit to provide their security to support

things like that because they're not large enough and they don't move in large enough forces yeah to provide that force how did without giving away any ttp's would you would you You guys bring in like, would you guys bring in like the Marine, the Royal Marines or conventional forces or parrots to help you in those exercises or in those operations? Yeah, well, yeah, we did. And this is another thing that really displays that one of the, one of the parts of the ethos of the regiment, which is humility. Because you're a fool if you think that you're jack of all trades and a master of some as well. And you can do everything. So what we did was when we were going out to certain

So when we went to Afghanistan, for example, we went to Iraq We had a platoon, we had a mortar platoon from one of the parachute regiments Who then deployed with us and they were fucking amazing because that's what they do all the time They are full-time mortar platoon and the capability they had It was phenomenal and they were very professional And they sort of bolted onto us and deployed with us with us to Afghanistan. And, you know, that's like saying, well, we can't do this shit.

We don't have enough people. We don't have the skills, really, to do that as well as they do. So why not bring an infantry platoon, that's specialist and a skill that is going to be an absolute asset? And that would happen. And then after I left, actually, they started something called the Special Forces Support Group, which was Parachute Regiment. And I think other people can join that as well.

I think it's like a specialist support group that was attached to the regiment. And again, it's there to pack out the numbers because it's like outsourcing things in the business. You're not going to fucking do your podcast and you're not going to do all the tech stuff yourself and send all the emails. You get somebody else to do that. And then you concentrate on what you do best. Right. Which is the interview idea. Just what Dee is.

Am I wrong? No, Dee is our chai-wala. He's our chai-woy. No, no, D is the master. me. But yeah, you're right. And that's, I think that's one of the things that, you know, people don't think about, especially watching movies. You think of, you know, special operations as these, you know, four-man to 12-man teams wearing all black, busting into places. But if you're in a permissive environment, like the United States or Britain or whatever, that's fine. But if you're

someplace where the bad guys can come from the next village over, those six or 12 guys aren't, you know, it's not enough. And, you know, you need to. It's like you got to learn from history. I mean, look at Vietnam. Yeah. Any way in fact that there's been, you know, some kind of conflict. Bar, apart from, like, when the first Gulf War happened, obviously,

and then the coalition forces going and all the Iraqis surrender, because that's not an army. It's a conscript army. They're forced to be there. It's not a professional army, right? So it's a different gravy altogether. But when you're going to fight a motivated resistance, like the fucking Taliban

who have lived there all their lives who have grown up in the mountains who know the mountains like the back of their hands can fucking navigate it can smell their way around and they can travel on foot pretty quickly because they're always traveling light most of the time

now when you get you're going into someone's backyard be Vietnam be Afghanistan Afghanistan anywhere you know you're always at the disadvantage yeah

so So you've got to show a bit of humility in a lot of ways and you've got to be humble when it comes to being realistic about what you need to get a job done. And I think that's what, I would say that's part of the reason. I mean, I wasn't there, but when it comes to what the regiment did in 91, there were some fucking bad decisions made that cost some guys their lives. Bad decisions at the high level.

And I think that was because You know, we're the fucking SAS We don't, we'll get this You know, just sprinkle some Special Forces dust on it and it'll all be fight Right. Not reality. Right.

That's not reality. You know, so there's some shit decisions made that And I remember actually there was one patrol And there was one patrol in B Squadron That in, and there's a book about this. I forget, I'll get the name of the book You're talking about Bravo 2-0? No, not the Bravo 2-0, because that was the...

So Bravo 2-0 was the patrol that fulfilled... They went in, they went on the ground and they followed through with the mission, or they attempted to fall through the mission, but it was, again, there were fucking lambs to the slaughter, you know, really, because it was a bad idea of what they were getting those guys to do, and the tactics that they employed to do that were really... It's a really bad idea from the get-go, and it ended in disaster. you know it was a real unfortunate

chain of events that happened but there was another patrol and again there was a one of the guys wrote a book about this about this chain of events and the other patrol that was basically like a carbon copy of Brabaud 2-0

they went in on sea kings or CH-47s I forget I think they were the CH-47s they got on the ground the patrol commander using night vision sussed out that the terrain was so fucking flat there was nowhere to go didn't have enough time to get anywhere

to a wadi that they could potentially hide for it but I mean it was a fucking terrible idea but what he did was he actually aborted the mission he aborted the mission and as far as I believe he was criticized heavily for it because the mission the patrols went into in the ground

one patrol stays out there partly because of the patrol commanders fucking ego as well, I would say, from what I can gather. And not aborting the mission, because it was such a bad idea. So the one guy who he aborted the mission with his patrol, back in the helicopter, and then they fucked off basically, and they went back to base and said, look, this is a shit idea. Yeah, the terrain didn't support their mission.

And in hindsight, once everything else went fucking tits up with the other patrol, rather two zero, it was like you were right. He made the right call because if he'd have stayed in the game, ground it could have been even worse for them. Right. You know, people lost their lives when they shouldn't really have used those tactics. Well, and we saw something similar in Afghanistan with Operation Red Wings, right, where, you know, six seals.

SDV team sent out on a, you know, on a rookie. Six seals out in, you know, Indian country, in a place where those people own that terrain. They know everything that's going on around there. Not a lot of, you know, natural train features to hide in and things like that. Yeah, how was it for you guys? Because, you know, we already had J-Soc in place, you know, so there was that sort of some of the some control over the special operations. But for you guys, did you have to fight battles with your command in terms of this is not

what, like, what you see in the movies isn't real? This is not our capability or this is. is not a smart way to do this. How was that for you in the initial parts of Afghanistan? You just don't go, you're not going looking for a fight. You're there prepared for the fight, but you don't go looking for the fight. You're not there to fight. You're there to, you know, find and report and record primarily.

That is a primary function of the special forces, really. But, you know, things do happen where, I mean, I remember once in Iraq, if I can switch to Iraq as an example of this. there was decision made at one point because we were we were trying to we were clearing all these areas right so there was two sabre squadrons and there was a squadron of sbs in the desert as well both three and we had a certain geographical area that we had to had to move across and we had to clear or report on the situation and there was it was it was a stupid amount of distance and i mean it was i remember the first five days in iraq on the around, I always say I've never been as tired of my fucking life as I was then. I've never experienced tiredness like that ever. Because we had so much distance to cover, so much terrain to cover. It was almost undoable.

I mean, everyone was functioning way below optimal, put it that way. But I remember, you know, we got to a point where we were clearing this massive airfield. And at the time there was only a half squadron, so it was probably about 20 guys. in a few vehicles, probably like, you know, six vehicles or something like that with a couple of external factions, a couple of, you know, intelligence guys and stuff from the US actually as well.

But we were clearing, we were on the border there's an airfield and we didn't know what was going to be resistant within the airfield because we couldn't really see to the extent this place was fucking massive. And so we get sent down, me and it's the first time I've ever been actively shot at it. It's the first time I'd actually

fucking felt myself dodging bullets and wondering if the next one was going to hit my head and that was a weird experience as you likely know but we went down the border of this airfield and then it was always remember thinking about this when I was in basic

training because I criticised this afterwards because when you're in basic infantry school there's a tactic right there's any guys that are in the reserves here watching this, don't take offense, don't take it personally. But they would make a joke that

one of the things you would do to locate the enemy, I'm not sure they'd do this in the US, right? But one of the tactics that they would use to locate the enemy, so within the battle drills procedure when it comes to, you know, reacting to an effective enemy fire, you know, you find cover and all that, and then you're trying to locate the enemy. And if you can't locate the enemy,

one of the methods that they would teach you is to draw the enemy's fire, it was called. So drawing the enemy's fire You send someone a bound forward and see who shoots at him So they would then joke and say So we call it the T.A is like territorial army Is like our reserve force So they would say always send the TA guy

If you've got a TIA guy attached to you Send him to draw the enemy's fire Because he's the most fucking dispensable Right so anyway So back to Iraq we're in this vehicle And we're going down the border Down the perimeter of this airfield And it was essentially like fucking drawing

the enemy's fire, you know, see what happens because we couldn't locate it. We knew there was rounds being fired. There were people firing at us somewhere, but we couldn't see them. So we were driving down the perimeter of this airfield, and all of a sudden this one almighty fucking burst opens up, and it's coming right at us.

There's two of vehicles covering each other, and it was the first time we had to actually fucking, you know, withdraw from heavy fire. And we didn't know how many there was. We just knew that it was manned, there's fucking lots of rounds flying, and we managed to break out of the firefight

and we got back to cover and at that point we actually retreated because we thought there's not enough of us here we don't know you know usually British Army tactics was always like a four to one ratio

you're going to assault a position which is a four to one ratio in your favour so we didn't have a fucking clue so it was just was too much of a risk so the decision was made to withdraw and then we you know we just wouldn't fucking go any further because you never know what's going to be

around the corner, so it speak. And you've got to think about everything when it comes to decisions being made analysis that happens on the ground by commanders. There's always a risk and reward balance rate. So high risk has to be fucking really high reward. Right. Otherwise, you know, there's just no point.

And it's tough in those situations. Also, it's like the commander that you said aborted the patrol in the Gulf War is that, you know, it's kind of a zero or hero moment and the thing is if you're the person calling out the danger and saying this is a high-risk scenario with little reward you you can start to look like a chicken little or people who are really motivated to do the op and then if you go on the op and nothing happens then it's like oh see you know you're worried for nothing told you so yeah told you so yeah and that's the thing that and that's what's

difficult about being a leader being a commander because you've got to make some tough decisions you've got to look at yourself in the mirror, you have to answer to people as well. And I think you've always got to make a decision sometimes fucking quickly that you're going to be able to be happy with. And, you know, it's a difficult one, right? I mean, no one's got a crystal ball. No one can tell what's going to happen. Some of it is luck and fate. Whatever happens, happens. But at some point, you've got to make a fucking decision. Right. You have to make a decision because it's like that old saying, if you stand on the crossroads

for long enough and don't make a decision, someone will fucking run you over eventually. Yeah. You need to go one way. You need to make a decision. And sometimes their own decision is better than no decision because nothing gets done. Right. You know, so, and then this is the thing is, I always remember when I first went to B Squadron, when I passed selection, and I was looking at, I was in awe of all the photographs all over.

We called it the interest room. It's like the little shrine within the squadron. squadron, you know, office block and all the pictures from every single generation throughout the years covered the walls. And there was this, there was one in the hallway and it was the, it was the guys at the back of the tailgate of the heli before the Brabator Zero control went in. So it was the last photograph they get taken before they deployed. And it's a really cool photograph. It's in the book, it's in the Braveter Zero book actually, but this same photograph with all the guys on it, it was on the wall. And it said at the top of the picture, and don't criticize

what you don't understand because there was obviously a lot of criticism in different directions from various things that happened and I think that's a good point in that because it's easy to criticize when it's not you it's easy to criticize when something's already happened that you could have said I called you so you didn't fucking know that could have gone either way so I think it's very easy to criticize

and you know you got to think be respectful that some poor fucker has to look at themselves in the middle not be proud of themselves the rest of their lives because they've made a decision that they know is wrong. And it's never going to be from malicious intent, but it can sometimes be from a place of ego. Right. And then obviously sacrifices other people.

Potentially, that's the other thing. Yeah. I want to ask you a little bit more in depth about like Iraq and what it was like when you started, you know, deploying there more. I imagine slipping into that deployment rotation. Yeah, so I only did the one tour with the squadron. over in Iraq.

It was the last operational two that I did actually. And that was off the back of Afghanistan. So I was on a team task in Afghanistan, a small team task. And I actually went from Afghanistan on tour, on deployment. I went straight to, I think I went home, I went straight to Iraq.

And then that was when we were actually next door to the Delta guys. And there was like the Ranger Battalion company Rangers who would do our ordnance and stuff like that. Like we said earlier, you know, they would do the, like, they would man the cordons, they would deploy with us in jobs, and then between us and Delta,

you know, some, some operations were joined, somewhere, individual, but we were next door to them, yeah, so. And that was all the, you know, the city stuff, you know, you know, assault in buildings in the middle of the night. That was, that was what that was very much all about, which was, I always remember, like, I had one of those, I always remember the first time that I did this.

It was one of those moments, like, a pinch yourself moment. Right. And it was like being in a movie. There's nothing else is like the movies when you get to the squadron. Because when you do something like room combat, I always remember thinking when I first did room combat,

when we were taught on selection course, the counter-terriss drills, when you wear all your black gear, the respirators, having watched Who There's Winds and other movies where people fly out of a fucking helicopter through windows and then they run down corridors through doors.

It all happens very quickly. Yeah. Whereas in reality, It's really slow, really methodical. Everything's really deliberate. Even in an emergency situation where you're doing an emergency response, it's still slower than you expect. So then when we were in Iraq,

and the first time that we went out on the ground and actually did a house assault in the middle of the night, that was when I got this moment of, how the fuck can I get any better than this? Because this is like the coolest shit I've ever done in my life. Right. And I was sat on the skid of a life. little bird with the fast rope.

And we were the roof team on this one op that we did. We were the roof team. So I was a guy with one of the fast ropes. And when you go in, you're going in towards the roof of the building in the middle of the city somewhere. And you can see the explosions get off the entry explosions because they go up for the top team lands for obvious reasons. And I remember just being in the last second.

before landing on the roof of this building and seeing all these in this the dead or night it's like fucking three o'clock in the morning whatever it was and there's all these explosions going off in multi in every single aspect of this building and then we're in a heli going into this fucking roof and it was just like holy shit this is like this is like this is like this is what I joined for and then you know you're running you know you're going through buildings methodically but it's like that that was when I thought this is like being in the special forces this is what it's all about yeah And I guess after I've done that, in all honesty, it was like, what can you do now that's better than that?

Right. There is nothing more exciting. But, I mean, there was other things that I did that were probably more, I felt more pressure with regards to responsibility. So there wasn't one job I did when I was in the squadron. We went up in the Nimrods with the RAF crew, the Air Force. And we would be the Overwatch. So when all these things were happening, we'd be in the sky thousands of feet up. And I was like the on the ground, the surveillance in the sky for the whole squadron.

So I remember once following this one vehicle for about six hours without looking away from the screen. And my fucking eyes fell out my head. But I remember it was surveillance followed by the talk onto a job. So I literally watched through this fucking high-powered lens, the Sabre Squadron around. arriving all the ranges like the coring going in and it was like watching it from a bird's eye view in detail and thinking ah shit this is how it looks from above and and watching the guys even stack up on the doors and the windows and then the heli team coming in i saw the whole thing happened and i was responsible for making sure that they knew what was good on the whole time

who was outside the building who was on the fucking roof who was walking around i was reporting on everything i mean i was fucking i was mentally fucked in the end of this and i was i was a corporal then So I wasn't like a senior guy. I was a corporal. I was a junior NCO. But I was the only the only SES guy that was on this job with the Air Force. So I had a lot of responsibility. And I remember thinking to myself, right, I try not to overthink it because I thought,

I am literally the fucking eyes for a whole squadron for this operation. And it was, I thought about it afterwards and realized how much responsibility it had been. And I was glad that I hadn't actually, you know, considered the magnitude of that beforehand because I'd have probably been shitting myself even more but I always remember thinking back on that and being quite proud of myself because I did a fucking awesome job on it

and you know and they said that that was fucking awesome great eyes in the sky and you know everything all the communication was brilliant and that was something that gave me a lot of confidence actually in my abilities as a soldier but then after that it wasn't long after that I actually left I left the regiment probably a year or so

after that. What motivated that decision? I mean, it sounds like you really loved being a soldier, you really loved the regiment. Was that a difficult decision to decide to leave? It was really difficult and it was really easy at the same time. I know that might not make sense, but I had a gut feeling and the gut feeling wasn't, it wasn't anything to do with, I don't like this anymore because I did like it and I loved the job. But I guess my mind just, my mind just changed and I started to think about life differently I started to realize that if I was going to stay

in the regiment I was kind of like a turning point I was at a turning point where I had to make a, you know, I was almost like a fork in the road and I thought if I choose this life then I was witness to

I was witness to people who had a lot of marriage problem I mean the guys who were married in the regiment It doesn't have great success on that front. There's a lot of divorce. There's a lot of, you know, not so nice endings in that sense for some of the families because there's a lot of divorce. There's a high percentage divorce, right?

And I could see that there was a massive problem within the regiment. And so I guess that was something at the time, you know, I ended up getting, I ended up being married when I was like 25. and at the time I was married then actually, yeah, I was married. So I was married, I didn't have any kids at that point, but planned to have kids. And I guess that was quite an influence at the time. I thought, you know, I want that to be successful. I want to have children.

I want to be able to see them. And I also want to be in control of my life. And I felt like really owned by the military because you are. They own you. And they dictate where you're going to be, how long are you going to be there for? what you're going to do, what you can tell your family. And it takes a special kind of woman to be with the guy who does that job. It takes a lot of patience, a lot of commitment, and a lot of understanding.

So I guess for me it was like I thought, I've done lots of things in the last several years. You know, I had done a lot of operations. There were multiple facets to that. I'd done small team tasks, squadron deployments. I'd been in lots of places and I had a great time. And I sensed that. If I was to stay then, then I'd be committing to the full time. And I thought that might be the detriment of having a family or having control over my life.

However, if I chose to leave, was I going to regret it? But I thought about it for a little while, and then every time I thought about it, it just kept on coming back to the same thing. I wanted to have more control over my life. And I knew as well it was something that kind of taught. told me that I just there was something else I had to do, something else I had to be doing, that wasn't this.

And I didn't know what it was at the time. I didn't actually have a clue where it was, but I had this real desire to be an influence to other people that I wanted to help people with genuine life problems and stuff like that. At the same time, I was into my bodybuilding. I was into my, you know, I was

bodybuilding then, recreationally, not comparatively, but I guess with that, I was like, well, maybe I could do something with this. Maybe I could be a personal trainer. Maybe I could be a coach. Maybe I could do this. Maybe I could open a gym. Maybe I could, you know, work in fitness.

And that's what I did when I left. After a couple of years, you know, I did actually go into the gym business for a number of years. How did you like that? I mean, was that a good transition for you? Really difficult. Really difficult. The business side of it or the coaching side of it? Everything because I think I would say,

I didn't realize how difficult it was going to be. It was more of a mental thing. It was the environmental contrast. It was a shock to the system that I didn't really handle that well, if I'm being completely honest. I didn't really take to being a civilian, dealing with civilians in a customer facing business. I was really bad at.

Didn't have a clue about business. I remember thinking to myself well retrospectively this is not realizing how hard I had found that until quite a number of years afterwards I actually had a realization one day that what I had from the age of 17 until I was 30

it was like I'd had structure I had a mission had to fucking I had purpose I had community by the camaraderie with the other guys and I fucking missed all that I didn't miss being in the army so to speak but I missed

the guys I missed some of the work obviously because you never really lose that but I saw I was lost and I guess for me like doing bodybuilding it's super strict right

so it gives you structure gives your purpose gives you some teleological fucking goals. And so I guess, although I was really into fitness and wanting to look good and all that shit, like the vanity that comes with that, but it was for me, it wasn't really about ego and vanity, it's more about,

I mean, there's a big part of that, but I would say I've always had a creative mind, very artistic. So, for me, bodybuilding was about stopped in your body and changing it in a way that you could create something that was, you know, that was desirable or, you know, that was artistic.

and had an element of beauty to it. So for me, bodybuilding was like an art form, really. But it was also the structure side of bodybuilding that kept me in, it kept me attached to something. And again, that was at the detriment of all of things. I was never that good at being, I was never that good at being in a relationship, you know, being a husband, being a partner to anybody.

I wasn't ever that good at that because I almost had some sort of fucking weird attachment thing, I think, going on in that situation. I was always a good dad. I always pride myself from being a very good dad to this day. You know, it's my favorite title as dad. And, you know, it's the best thing I've ever experienced.

But I guess when it came to being out of the military, running the business that I was really interested in, but then I realized that you've got to make money. It was difficult to make money, certainly enough money, pay the bills. My strategy wasn't that great when it came to building a business. There was a lot of fucking blind spots. a lot of bottlenecks.

I was essentially the bottleneck of the business for a long time. And that pressure of the business then got quite stressful. And then I just obsessed about bodybuilding. Now, when I was obsessed about bodybuilding, like I did with everything else in my life, I fucking did really well. I won most of the shows that I did. I was a very accomplished bodybuilder.

I was very good at it. But then at the same time, other things in my life were like fucking, it was like that scene in dumb and dumb. when he's you know he looks over the thing and there's like fucking fireballs in the background it was like a blaze of fire behind me because I was those of other things that were going wrong that I wasn't managing yeah relationship you know family family life um money you know struggling financially because the it was trying to spend too

many plates because I wasn't very good at delegation even though I'd been in the military when it came to running the business I thought who can I trust we're going to trust the management to who can I trust in my books we're looking at my bank here and by I can deal with all this shit. So I was very kind of closed off to that possibility. So it's one of the old learning curves of life. As time went on, I did learn how to do business better. But at the same time, I found it really challenging.

Yeah, so there was a lot of these things that were getting to me. And the only thing that really kept me attached to something was the structure with bodybuilding. How did you eventually, it sounds like you ended up leaving that behind to some extent and going into human performance coaching. Can you tell us a little bit about that and kind of where you're at today? Yeah, so when that happened, I had a realization as well back in 2014.

I always remember this one day that I had this realization that I just wasn't happy. I couldn't really work out. I knew things weren't great in some aspects of my life, but it was more from a personal fulfillment side of things. It was like, what am I doing? What is my purpose? You know, that feeling you get where you,

think I'm not in the right fucking, I'm not doing the right thing here. I don't know what I should be doing, but I just know that this isn't it. There's something else out there, and I don't know what it is yet. I don't know what I'm going to fall in love with doing. So I felt a bit lost again. So I guess my self-awareness for a period of time was not the best because I was just, I was packing down all these emotions that were getting to me. And I was just showing up every day and pretending everything's okay.

and the whole bodybuilding facade of then social media comes along and you're just putting out shit that people think you're having a great life but it was within me I realized that this one day that I was walking along the road and I just stopped and I just thought

I'm really fucking unhappy so I thought something has to change but that continued as well for another couple of years until eventually you know the whole lockdown thing happened and all that. But there was a point in time actually that around the

2014 period where there was a particular client who wasn't really getting the result that I wanted me to get and I couldn't understand why I wasn't following the plan or and I realized that there was a gap. There was a blind spot. There was a real gap that I wasn't covering. That was, I didn't

understand people enough. I didn't have the skills or the knowledge as well as much as I thought I was a people person. I didn't have the skill set or the inkling or the knowledge to to delve in deeper to really help people at the psychological level. And I thought, this is the thing that's missing. Everyone's talking about what you should fucking eat, how you should train.

This is all great stuff, but it's getting to the point where you can actually do it. And this is what holds you back, even always. People I deal with now, they know what they have to do. They know what they're fucking, you know, they've got to go to the gym, they've got to work on their mindset, they've got to meditate, they've got to do all these things. But they don't do it. they just think about it and then they don't do anything and then you get overwhelmed and they procrastinate

and this is what I deal with in the daily basis now but at that point I didn't really understand it as much because I was always of the elk thought I was get on with it you know I was in special forces stop fucking crying and get on with it my approach to life was just stop being a little bitch and the reality is that just doesn't work right you know you got to really

get the best you got to know how to get the best out of people so there was a period of time there I became really interested in learning more about that. And I spent the last 10 years essentially, and that will be till the day I die. You know, I'll always be learning more. But I've been in this quest to, you know, achieve my own level of self-mastery,

and I now sort of walk that path with others. So what I do now is a program for men who are essentially, have essentially got the same types of challenges I had and a variation of different challenges as well. So regardless of what it is in their life, typically it's people who have achieved something, but there are things that aren't quite where they want it to be.

So it's about turning that switch and getting them to go from the 60% that they're currently operating at today and being at like 95%. You know, no one ever gets to 100 really. But it's about getting their optimization with self, from where they are to where they want to be and achieving the things in life that they really want to achieve but it all comes down to

stop looking out there for all the stuff you know I say there are things out there that will help you but unless you stop and look in look inwards you're never going to find what you fucking need because the answers are actually all in there they aren't out there you just need to be shown how to bring it out

so I essentially help the guys unpack their best self, not find it out there. Because there's a certain amount of shit you've got to get done. You have to do the work. You have to do the rep. You have to get on with it. So why is not everyone doing that? If it's so simple, why does everyone not just get on with it? Right. So that's the fucking key. It's finding out what makes someone tick. Why are they not behaving a certain way? Why don't they do the things they promise themselves they're going to do that it's in line with their,

I yourself, the person they want to be? You know, and I guess they've all got the same type of fears, you know, especially when they get to, you know, 40s, 50s. They then start thinking they're going to die a fucking, you know, an unaccomplished loser or someone who's never, never fulfilled their full potential. That scares people, especially as they get older. So I'm kind of the guy that, like the Y guy that gets them to bring it out of themselves and find what's fucking gone on within there. And then declutter the shit, they've been built up over the last 40, 50 years. and then, you know, create a new self, essentially. How was it for you?

Because, you know, you mentioned, I think, something that a lot of military and particularly special operations folks talk about, which is when you leave, you go from doing this 100 mile an hour job, tip of the spear, you know, like the type of job that they make movies about, right? Doing every fantasy you ever had as a young boy, when you're playing with GIGO action figures or whatever, to civilian life where you don't have the purpose, you don't have the camaraderie, you don't have the structure. And it's a huge jarring shift for a lot of guys, for a lot of people. Yeah. For you, in addition to working on this business and learning how to, you know, sort of hack the human brain and,

and help these people achieve their, you know, their own sort of purpose and goals. How did you manage dealing with, you know, your own issues with the camaraderie, with that sense of the supreme mission to, you know, a personal mission? It's a good question, because this is exactly what I did with the Modern Warrior Project. So we need community We need We need like-minded people in our lives But at the same time

We also need to We also need to be aware of the diversity of different people So this is quite a recent thing for me My ego was checked in Quite recently And what we can assume You know, they're gurus online That they're speaking all sorts of shit

Every single day you look at your phone Like if you want to be a millionaire You've got to hang around with fucking nine millionaires and you'll be the 10th one. If you want to be a successful people, you've got to hang around with just successful people. So you get these little carbon copies of each other in little groups,

and they're all exactly the fucking same, which is really boring, right? But as soldiers, we're used to that because we're all soldiers. We all come through the same fucking factory. We all go through the same training. We all end up like little carbon copies with variations of personalities,

but we've all got the same core values. We're all in the same mission. and then so that can that can kind of embed a belief that you have to be around just people who you're like so former soldiers will find former soldiers so you get these veterans groups and these are all fucking amazing things because it's good to to rub shoulders of people who are the same as you but you should also venture out I would actually encourage anyone who's watching us now to venture out and meet people and speak to people who are completely fucking different than you because you learn more with them people because if you're hanging around people who are just like you all the time, you kind of look in the mirror to a point. So you don't learn as much. It's cool and all that and it's good laugh. But when you start to spend the time around people who are from completely different backgrounds that you would potentially be judgmental of because you don't know anything about them,

go back to the quote about don't criticize where you don't understand, this is something I think is common in human nature. People stay in their little cliques and they don't venture outside those clits because it's unsafe and it's the unknown. but some of the most interesting conversations I've had recently were people that weren't in the army they weren't ever soldiers that weren't from my background they were totally different people so as far as how I how I dealt with that yeah I wanted to build a tribe of men because if you've got like a common ground with people who have who share the same challenges you can use strategies that can then help more people because you can scale that as a business as well and it also does build great community, but within my program, for example, people, people come in applying

and they say, is it just for ex-soldiers? Is it just for people who are fucking, you know, successful in business or something? I say, you know, no, it's for anybody that just has the desire to be better. That's all it is. It doesn't matter what you fucking do, where you're from, what your sexual orientation is. It doesn't, none of that shit matters. It's like if you're someone who is in a current place and you've got the desire to be somewhere else and you think you need some help and you want some community and accountability, you're very welcome. You don't have to be the perfect fit and you don't want to have to be a businessman or fucking, you know, into making more money or you don't have to be an ex-soldier.

It's like it's a diverse community at the same time. They've all got common ground. But the thing I found out is that human beings have common ground. It doesn't have to just be, you know, all bunch of men who are all wanted, you know, people think sometimes that, you know, what I do is about getting a bunch of men together, go up to the top of a mountain and beating our chest. Right, right. It's really not about that, you know.

Where can people go to find you and find your coaching if they wanted to work with you? So I'm actually having a few things about the moment, a website being one of them, but I get most of my leads through my social media, so Instagram and Facebook. I'm also on LinkedIn as well, but I mean, I'm just tapping into that now, really. We will put the links down in the description of this podcast also for people who are... Most of my links or my leads come through Instagram and Facebook, yeah. Cool. So Instagram is like, obviously.

And do you know what the URL for your website will be? Because people might be listening to this in six months? Yeah, it will be the Modern Warrior Project.com. Okay. Awesome. Also, I saw on your link tree that your Instagram isn't there. Do you want to shut out your Instagram, too? Oh, so the Instagram is the Lindsay Bruce.

So, T-H-E, Lindsay Bruce. Okay, maybe it is there, and I didn't see it, but I didn't think of it. Do we have questions for Lindsay? Let me see if we have any questions. I didn't, I don't recall seeing any pop-up, but. Okay. Well, Lindsay, thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, do you want to hit them up, Dee?

Hold on, I got it. Now, thank you for joining us, Lindsay, because I know it's getting late over there. And we will, we may have a few viewer questions and then we'll head out. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Yeah, nothing. Like, okay. Yeah. What do you got, Dee?

Okay. From Sean, thanks, Sean. Can SAS do radio slash radar direction finding? If so, how did they learn slash teach it? And what does, what do UKSF support elements bring to the table in modern operations? Talked a little bit about that. Honestly, I'm the wrong guy to answer that question. It's just I would be making a really bad answer

that it would take me a bit of time to think back to when I was actually in. Things will have changed since I was in. As far as the reserves go, from what I can gather, you know, they very rarely went on operations. But it did happen, but very rarely. As far as the radar question, I've got no fucking clue. Wrong guy. Wrong question, sorry.

Is there a strong, like, post-SAS, SBS community, a special forces community, or are guys just kind of spread out through the UK? Yeah, they are spread out. I mean, you get, like, the Special Forces Club in London, but, I mean, a lot of these things were really, the old and bold guys would still, you know, gather in certain spots.

So there's places in Hedford, for example, but some of the older guys, like, I'm talking like the guys who are now, you know, in the 70s, maybe 80s, that we'll still meet for the coffee morning in a social club or something like that. But like these days, like from my sort of era, you know, there are WhatsApp groups and stuff, but we don't really have a regular thing. Everyone's spread out and everyone's doing their own thing. So it's something that's kind of, you know, you keep in touch with who you want to keep in touch with.

That's what I do. You know, I've got a few guys who I really keep in touch with on a regular basis. And we do make a point these days of saying, let's make this a thing. Let's do this once a month and meet for lunch or whatever it is. So, yeah, but no, there's not really that much of a strong. I mean, we do have, like, reunions and stuff, but that's usually every several years. Yeah.

And you always see familiar faces at those. And those are great events because you see lots of people in one go. But apart from that, I mean, I see people around all the time because I live in head of it still. So I still see a lot of my old mates. Yeah. And keep in contact. So yeah, you still see a lot of familiar faces. That's cool.

Was there another question, do you? Okay, and one final question. As a boat team guy on the SCS, you can definitively answer the question. What color is the boathouse at Hereford? Trick question. Do you know what the trick is in the question? No.

Oh, is Hereford inland? There's no boat house. There's no boat house because we're not in the, We're in the Midlands, so we're inland. Awesome. So guys, awesome. Next, actually coming up on Monday, we got a double header for you guys. We're going to have two special forces guys on the show, one at 5 p.m.

And then the next at 8 p.m. Jay, third group guy and Dan, a fifth group guy, both Iraq, Afghanistan veterans. So Monday is going to be a busy day for us. Lindsay, thank you so much for coming on the show, man, and staying. with us at this late hour in your time zone. One more time if people want to find you on social media. Yeah, so the Lindsay Bruce is my Instagram and just my name, Lindsay Bruce on Facebook. You know, pretty easy to find, I think, on there.

So quite distinctive pictures and whatnot. So, yeah, and the program is the Warrior Project, which can apply through any of these mediums, you know, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. And the website that will be live soon, which will be the Modern Warrior Project.com. Awesome. And just for people listening and not looking, you'll probably see it on the headline, but it's L-I-N-D-S-A-Y, Bruce, if you're looking for it. If you're looking for them on Instagram.

I think that's the show, Lindsay. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. Absolute pleasure to be you guys. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, absolutely appreciate it. Welcome back anytime, man. Thank you. And we love your pack.

Excellent stuff. Like your place gives off such an awesome vibe. It looks like such a beautiful place to hang out in. It's pretty cool, isn't it? Yeah, I love it here. Yeah. I've been here about a year now. It does feel like cool.

Get a 10 on the backdrop. Yeah. Well done. Excellent. All right, everyone. We will see you guys on Monday.