The Team House - SEALs Disrespect John Chapman Again | Matt Cubbler & Lori Chapman Longfritz | Ep. 323

Episode Date: January 22, 2025

Lori's book "Alone at Dawn"⬇️https://www.amazon.com/Alone-Dawn-Recipient-Deadliest-Operations/dp/1538729652/ref=asc_df_1538729652?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=79920832001483&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583520386299563&psc=1Sign the petition⬇️https://www.change.org/p/demand-for-john-chapman-s-full-exhibit-in-the-national-medal-of-honor-museum?recruiter=1363137387&recruited_by_id=75acb0e0-d526-11ef-ab2a-3320a00e6bf1&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_content=cl_sharecopy_490381559_en-US%3A7Predator video ⬇️https://youtu.be/Swp6k6o9gy8?si=S136jbmcdDjBfC3PJohn Chapman’s MOH citation⬇️https://www.airforcespecialtactics.af.mil/About/History/Honors/#:~:text=Award%20Citation%3A,beyond%20the%20call%20of%20duty.Britt Slabinski’s MOH citation⬇️https://www.navy.mil/MEDAL-OF-HONOR-RECIPIENT-BRITT-K-SLABINSKI/——————————————————————-Order Jack Murphy's new book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" today! ⬇️https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/Support the show here:⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse___________________________________________________Subscribe to the new EYES ON podcast here:⬇️https://www.youtube.com/@EyesOnPodcast/featured—————————————————————-Today's Sponsors:GhostBed⬇️https://www.ghostbed.com/houseFOR 50% OFF!!!Mando ⬇️https://shopmando.comPromo code "TEAMHOUSE" for 40% off your starter pack.____________________________________Pre-order Jack Murphy's new book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" today! ⬇️https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/——————————————————————To help support the show and for all bonus content including:https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse-AD FREE AUDIO-AD FREE VIDEO-Access to ALL bonus segments with our guestsSubscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouseOr make a one time donation at: ⬇️https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouseTeam House merch: ⬇️https://teespring.com/stores/my-store-10474963Social Media: ⬇️The Team House Instagram:https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_linkThe Team House Twitter:https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePodJack’s Instagram:https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_linkJack’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21Dave’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/dave_parke?s=21Team House Discord: ⬇️https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6SubReddit: ⬇️https://www.reddit.com/r/TheTeamHouse/Jack Murphy's memoir "Murphy's Law" can be found here:⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Law-Journey-Investigative-Journalist/dp/1501191241The Team Room Reading Room (Amazon Affiliate links):⬇️ https://jackmurphywrites.com/the-team-room-reading-room/Intro music by https://www.youtube.com/user/RemixSampleWant to sponsor the show?Email: ⬇️[e-mail]0:00 startBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

Hey guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to talk to you today about a way that you can help support the podcast if you're not already. To support the channel is to become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon memberships that start at just $5 a month. And when you sign up, you get access to all of our episodes ad free. That's the big bonus for that. I mean, we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for our subscribers. But this is the biggest and best way that you can support the Team House. channel and podcast if you'd like to and we really appreciate that so go it and check us out at patreon.com slash the team house special operations covert ops espionage the team house with your host jack murphy and david park hello everybody welcome to episode to three hundred and twenty three 23 of the team house. I'm Dave Park here with Jack Murphy. Tonight we have very special guests on. We have Matt Kubler and Lori Chapman Longfretz. Is it Longfitts, Fritz, Longfretz? Thanks. Sorry, I should have asked before. Lori Chapman, Longfries, the sister of John Chapman. And tonight we will be talking about Matt and Lori. They're both their independent efforts because Matt's done

other investigations regarding some of the NSW stuff. But really what we're going to focus on is John Chapman's story. Lori is one of the co-authors of Alone at Dawn. And we will talk about the latest going on, going on about what's going on with the new National Medal of Honor Museum. and the fight that many of us are involved in with that. So before we do, we are going to read off, we're going to read off our sponsor message. Yes.

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Even better, team house listeners can get up to 50% off site wide for limited time. Just visit ghostbed.com slash house and use code house at checkout. Again, that's ghostbed.com.com slash house with code house at checkout. to save a whopping 50% off site wide. Thank you for joining us tonight. We really appreciate it. We kind of scheduled this last minute. But, you know, it's a story that is going on right now.

It's something that many of us have followed. We followed John's story, you know, since, for a lot of us outside of, you know, that immediate community, it came to our attention when it was brought up for the Medal of Honor. There were all kinds of shenanigans that went on with that that we'll get into. So thank you again, both of you. Matt, let's kind of start with you because you said you met Lori about seven years ago, but you've worked on different stories around special operations for a while now. And a couple of them, specifically about naval special warfare.

Can you give us your background? Because you have a military background too. Can you tell us about your military background? what got you into investigating and then some of the things you've worked on? Sure. Thanks. Once again, thanks for having me on. I'm sure there's probably some people like, what does he have to do with any of this?

But it'll tie together here in a second. My background is I was Army Intelligence, Active Duty, during the Gulf War. I deployed over there. I got out and became a cop and was a cop for 30 years. So I've been doing investigating and things like that for a long time. the Navy Special Warfare stuff that sort of started around 2018, 2019, in that ballpark. And it was only because I was asked to look at the death of Commander Joe Price, who was Commander's Hill Team 4.

He was a high school classmate of mine. And we weren't friends by the, like we didn't hang out. We didn't do stuff out of school. But we were in all the same classes because we both were in the academy track. academically. So we knew each other well and were rivals, but also liked each other, just not we weren't friends. So when he died, when he was found dead in his bunk in 2012, December 27th and in African-Code Afghanistan, surprised me that they said it was suicide, but it wasn't something that I initially would have thought anything nefarious was going on,

because I didn't have a reason to believe that. Like there was no inclination for me to even consider it. And why would the Navy lie? You know, fast forward to 2018, 2019. That's when his father and sister came to me and said, would you mind looking at this? We believe that it's not what the Navy said. Fast forward.

I've been working on it now for six years. And we now have enough evidence, forensic evidence to prove that Job was murdered. And, you know, there's a lot of things that happened in 2024 that, created those opportunities to get that information. And I'm very thankful for it. And we know, we're in development for a documentary film on not just Joe, but hopefully a wider net focus

for the documentary for other Naval Special Warfare corruption cases. And I got introduced to Lori as a result of doing this investigation. And a source of mine had known who he was and said, hey, you may want to talk to her. There's some similarities between the cover-up of John's actions and the way they handled that, especially during the middle of honor, fiasco, that you guys should probably talk. So, all the story short, we talked, how to run my podcast, became very close with her and her family, and my goal now is to be her champion with it.

I'm more of a shell-to-the-face kind of guy. Sometimes you need that, and I'll be happy to be that for her whenever she asks. And Lori, can you tell us, you are one half of the writing team. It was you and Dan. Dan and Schilling. Yeah, Schilling. For Alone at Dawn. Can you tell us a little bit about your childhood, about growing up, about John, what led him into the military and all of that?

Well, first, thank you for having me on. also. I mean, I could be here for hours talking about growing up with John and my sister and brother, other brother. But John was just a fun kid. And, you know, I've told people, I've never really seen him fail at anything. He may have struggled in initially, but he always found a way to to succeed. He was ahead of his time in being caring towards people, you know, with learning disabilities. You know, back when we grew up, it wasn't, even the teachers didn't, you know, say, hey, you know, this kid needs to be included too. And he was one of, he was just the first one that would stick up for someone, be there. A young girl lost her dad and was out back in the

school and the teenagers. He was 15, I think. She was 14. And he just sat there with her and said, hey, I'm John and what can I do for you? And, you know, most people, especially teenage boys, would have just been, you know, wouldn't want anything to do with that. And it was just, that's the kind of person John was. He was there for people, whether he knew you or not. As far as going into, he tried, he tried college. He went to college for a year, a university of Connecticut.

And he did pretty much everything he could possibly do to lower his grade. GPA. He had gone in there being ranked number one in his for diving and, you know, left being ineligible to dive because of his grades. But he just, college wasn't for him. So he went back, came back to our hometown, Windsor Locks, Connecticut and worked for about a year for a guy doing a tow truck, auto repair and stuff like that. And then he just, decided, you know what, I want to travel the world. He had always talked about that even when he was little. And he joined the Air Force. Yeah. And my mom initially, my mom made him promise to try something safe. So he did. And he was miserable. So he at some, you know, he eventually said,

mom, I think I fulfilled my promise. I need to try something different. And that's when he applied to try it for the combat control pipeline. Okay. And so how long was he in combat control before he went to 2-4? Do you know? Well, I know right after he graduated and he went to Okinawa for three years. And I want to say after he came back, he was at Pope, but I don't think he was at the 24. but that's where he was able to get on there. I'm not real clear on all that. Yeah, it's not that important.

I was just curious. And for anybody, if you guys have not read alone at dawn, we're not going to really go deep into the book, but it is a moment by moment of what happened during that operation. have had Alan Mack on, who was the pilot on, you know, on the bird that Roberts, you know, fell off of. And it's also a really great history of combat control, because combat control has been around much longer than, like, some of the other, I think they've been around longer than, you know,

some of the other, like, even SF, I believe, right? I think combat controllers came around to, like, tail into Vietnam. on. I'm not sure. I'd have to I read it and then it was a lot to read. I think the precursor for them was the Pathfinders in World War II. Right, right. I think.

Right. But yeah. The guy to have a bond for that is Dan Schilling. He would be an awesome guest for you. Yeah. So and maybe one day we can get you and you guys on together and we can really just kind of dive deep

into Alone at Dawn and everything if you guys are willing. But we, for those of you who haven't seen it, there is a video, the Pred Feed. Dee, do you know if we can insert that or not? Okay, all right, it's not a problem. I should have asked you before the show, and I apologize. So there are videos out there of the Pred Feed

and what the SEALs initially thought would happen. And look, people will say that, you know, the SEALs lied about what happened, but we can all, anybody who's been in combat knows about fog of war, and the only people who really know what happens on the ground are the people on the ground, and things get confused.

All right, so that's an argument that people can have, and that's fine, and I'm not going to drag anybody. But what we see in this video is the definition of courage, of fortitude, it's incredible. Right. And it showed that John did not die when the SEALs thought that he died, that he fought for many, many hours. And then at a certain point in time, the Air Force, I'm going to go ahead and read this from the book, if that's okay, because this is how the whole thing came up. This is starting at Chapter 25. So John was awarded the Air Force Cross for actions that. that day. And it would have remained that, which is the nation's second highest award for self-action heroism, had it not been for chance, Secretary of the Air Force, Deborah Lee James, I'm going to, she read it Air Force Times. And the Air Force Times was basically an article,

what does it take for an airman to get the Medal of Honor? And they gave two other, two examples in it, a senior airman, Dustin Temple, who delivered 80 American. and Afghans from death the previous September while exposing himself repeatedly to direct enemy fire as he killed 18 enemy combatants, right? And he did not get a metal owner. The other person mentioned in the article was Staff Sergeant Robert Gutierrez,

who saved the life of his Wounded Green Beret team leader during an ambush, only to be shot in the chest himself. His lungs collapsed, yet he refused to get off the radio and stopped calling airstrikes, some within 30 feet of his location, thereby saving his entire Special Forces team. The Greenberry Medic jammed a syringe into his chest to re-inflate his lungs. So it sounded like he had tension pneumothorax and was decompressed.

And so the Secretary James said, hey, that's a good question. What does it take? Because there hadn't been a Medal of Honor during the GWAT, and there's only been what one Medal of Honor awarded an airman for or a special time. CCT during Vietnam, correct? So what you have is you have these guys, these amazing guys, because

both CCT and Pararescue, they do not get a lot of attention, but they are almost always there in the thick of the fight. And especially these CCT guys, their ability to keep calm and

work multiple problems under pressure is astounding for anybody who's ever been in a firefight and seen these guys work. So what you have, though, is they're attached, right? They're always attached. And it seems like because they're attached, maybe they don't always get the recognition that they deserve.

They don't seek the recognition. Right. Absolutely. So she put out, Secretary James put out a memo, said, hey, find me, find out. if there are any people who are qualified under these standards, very strict standards, for the Medal of Honor.

Not, she wasn't trying to, you know, fudge anything. She just wanted to know. And the answer came back with John. The answer came back, look, this is the video of what he did. And the Air Force was behind it. J-Socq was behind it. But the award ran into, resistance. Do you guys want to kind of talk about that at all?

Lori, you wrote the book. Yeah, as soon as like John was the Navy's, the SEALs hero for saving their lives on Toccar Gar in March of 2002. And he was their hero for, when did that start? 2014, 2015, something like that. the push. So for all those years, he was their hero until everything that they tried to stop his metal didn't work. You know, they first tried to

say they just started to try to trash him. Like he went against orders and he should have done this and he didn't do that. Like ultimately you know, it was a shit show and he did what he had to do. He, you know, he stepped off the helicopter. right behind the team leader and who fell post hold and fell and john's the one who you know went out the people who were fighting at them he killed two of them and then went for the next one and you know he saved their lives and yet now they're now he's not their hero now they're trying to discredit him in any way they could and then of course once none of their

tactics worked, the last ditch effort was, okay, fine. If he's going to get it, then so is our guy going to get it. And that's how that came about. And that guy would be Brits Slavinsky, correct? Yes. Yes. And his package was denied three times before, you know, I don't know, miraculously in 11th hour, some backdoor drug deal, I don't know, or next thing you know, they're both being signed at the, you know, and sent to the White House. And it's like basically it's Slavinsky's was tied to Johns. If you're not going to sign Slavinsky's, then John's not getting one either.

Right. Right. And another part of that is the important part that shows the true heroism, that beyond what he did when he first got off the helicopter, the second half of what happened that day was classified. And they wouldn't allow it to be in a citation, which would clearly, you know, the Navy SEALs in good light. And I think that was obviously very strategically done to protect Slippingski's Medal of Honor

validity versus for any classification reasons that something needed to be classified. Right. Yeah. How is it classified that he engaged and killed the enemy in combat? Like it's not a secret here. Right. Yeah, they split the citation in half. And, you know, there's part one and part two.

when one part is classified. I mean, everybody knows it, but it's classified. Right, we can watch it. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. And, you know, and up until this point, and to make your point, about him being highly regarded there,

you mentioned in the book that he was the only non-seal on the Wall of Honor in Virginia Beach. they recognized what he had done. And again, I don't want to stray into this was all Naval Special Warfare. This seemed to be a few people with a lot of influence. That there are probably, you know, quite a few seals who felt differently about it.

I think I will say this, and I'll just add for my edification is, while it may not be, NSW that was as a whole community that did this during the Medal of Honor drama back in 2017-ish time frame they didn't stop it they allowed SEAL Team 6 to do what they did as far as collectively SEAL Team 6 did everything they could to ensure John didn't get a medal of honor and then when like Lori said when all efforts failed they attach Slubinsky's to his and so just because they didn't actively, as a community engaged,

they didn't actively person engaged Steel Team 6 from it either. But those who were active were the same ones who were active right after, I mean, immediately after Takar Gar, they're the same ones who are active with the Medal of Honor, and they're the same ones who are active now. Right. And when we talk about that, these are names that have come up in previous shows with other guests.

We're talking about Sismansky. Szymanski and Sliwansky and Sliwinsky and then are there other people that I'm leaving out? Well, I know there was Jared Williams who was there in the command center there in Taka, Afghanistan, who was pushing for them to go back to get Roberts and do the mission, you know, with no planning or whatever. So I know he's involved. He was involved in the efforts to kill the medal, I believe. And he may very well be still involved in this whole museum thing, too. Yeah.

And I think it was, didn't Alan say that Zvansky was part of, like, it was kind of his planning that was very questionable. Yeah, I mean, the same names come up again and again. Yes, yeah. And, you know, and even as early as two, 2003, January 2003, when John was awarded the Air Force Cross, there was still, there was debate at the time of whether he should get the Medal of Honor. Yeah, I don't know how many people are on the panel when somebody gets put up for an award. I want to say five, but I'm not positive.

But I do know that whoever, and I assume they're generals and, you know, high ranking individuals, There were at least three of them who had written in their copies in the margin, Medal of Honor. So, yeah, there had been some debate and people thinking this is metal of honor stuff way back then. Now, was the Pred Feed known at that time or was it discovered later on? I think they knew it right from the start. Okay. I'm not positive. We weren't told about it right.

Well, I don't know the time frame. We had heard about it. we just never saw it in those beginning years. Right, right. And, you know, to put this forward even more, like in 2005, you guys received word that the Navy was going to rename a ship after John. That, you know, like, people knew. People were aware of the heroism that was displayed,

but the general public didn't know until the predator feed was released. Right. Pretty much. I mean, yeah. Yeah. And so was, go ahead, Matt. There was no reason for the Navy to let anybody know there was a Fred feed because it wasn't at the time. They weren't able to say who was who was just little black dots. Right. So for for who where the enemy was and watching how what happened with the chopper crashes and stuff like that,

I'm sure it had training value and intelligence value for that, but it didn't really have a public. value and it didn't have a public value until they were able to use the laser or whatever was on the amount of the rifle that they were able to admit it a signal they were able to identify that that one was on that rifle and and that's how they were able to do and then it became a public interest because now it's it's actually a video evidence of what happened that day right and and i think that's that's where you know i don't know samansky and those guys were we're hoping to God that never happened, but technology was going to advance to a point where that was going to be able to be done. And I think they were hoping that enough distance in time between

the mission itself and the revelation of that information that people wouldn't care that much. I don't think they were prepared for the Air Force to do the Medal of Honor when they did when that came out. Right. Did that happen? Was this, did that happen as a result? Did they go back and like re-looked the video as a result of Secretary James asking? Or do you know if, do you know what the timeline on that was, how the video was parsed out, why it was parsed out, was it in conjunction with her request, had it happened prior to her request,

or do you guys know the history of that? I want to say that when Secretary James asked that question, there was already another group talking about it. They actually assigned someone the task. They had another video. So when you're awarded, so John's awarded the Air Force Cross, and he's,

they're being trying to, what is he called, to give him the Medal of Honor instead. There's supposed to be new evidence to support the upgrade. John had that new evidence, because the predator feed, the CIA predator feed, was already known.

But then there was the AC130. Is it AC130? 130 had, you know, at 30,000 feet had been recording it also. And so they had a team of people stitching together both videos. And that's where they used the electronic tag, if you will, to determine who is who and where they went and where they didn't go. And that was done, I think, in conjunction with the just gathering information and evidence to support John's upgrade, even though at that point in time,

and I can't remember who did it, but the requirement for new information was waived, especially for Slabinsky, because there couldn't be any new evidence to upgrade his Navy Cross. So that particular requirement was waived. For him or for both of them? I think technically for both of them. Okay.

The Air Force wanted, you know, wanted to dot every eye and cross every T. So they went above and beyond and made sure they had this video that, that proved without a doubt. I did. Go ahead, Matt. Please. One thing that adds to that, you know, in order to get the Air Force cross, he had to have people put them in for it. And they had to talk people that were on the ground and get statements. and the way I was told,

and Lori correct me if I'm wrong, that the statements that they got from the guys on the team, the SEAL team that was there, that they didn't sign those statements. They were electronically signed. They weren't hand-signed. And when they went back to those same guys, and I wonder, they wrote these whenever in 2003

or whatever when he got the Air Force Cross, and they were, like Lori said, he was their hero up until this metal. of honor started when they went back to get those same statements not news statements the exact same statement that they wrote in 2003 signed physically signed because it's a requirement for the middle of honor they refused to sign wow that's true that's yeah I mean those are sworn statements yep but because they were electronically sent or whatever so they weren't physically signed back in 2002, end of 2002, beginning of 3, when they went back in 2018 or, well, before that,

they refused to sign it. Which makes no sense. Right. If it was true then, it's true now. Right. Yeah. And, you know, and some people might say that the Navy, that it was Hater Aid, that they didn't want John to, get anything that Brit didn't get.

But I think some people would argue that it's a bit more nefarious than that, right? That actually John's award disproves because I believe Brit's story changed a few times based on emerging

information. Yes, especially where it involved him checking on John. You know, it is as an excuse or a reason why he left him or believed he was dead. He changed his story quite a bit. You know, oh, it was because I saw the laser laying across his chest wasn't moving in the

middle of a fire, whatever, firefight. And then, oh, I rolled over him and I checked him. And I, and I did this and I checked him. And the predator feed shows he never went anywhere near him. Right, right. Yeah, we will link that predator feed in the, um, in the section. Also, D, can you also link the petition while we're at it? So, all right, so you guys, do you know how the Pred feed was released? Was that released intentionally? Did somebody get hold of it and release it?

Do you guys know the backstory behind that? I can't say for sure, but I, think that it was leaked and and then once you know people got to see some of it then the the air force kind of made did their own release of it okay because i think one of the more popular versions of it is the one where dan shilling is actually narrating the events as it happens correct yes yes yep and that was after it was stitched together with the other video okay great So, can I make a request real? Yes.

When you're talking about linking things, can you link John Chapman's Medal of Honor citation and Brits Slubinsky's Medal of Honor citation? So people can read them? I can. Absolutely. I will find those and link those. Do you mind searching for those and find them? Okay.

All right, great. Okay. So they both get medals of honor. And that's it, right? John. Well, even even in that, you know, when he, Slabinsky got his, the Navy still, they were, they wanted Slabinsky to be awarded his first. It's all about the optics.

Everything with them is optics and the brand. And so they had to have Slavinsky get his first. yeah, before John did. So just optically, it's like, oh, he got his first, so he might be, he may have done more. I don't know. I don't know what their thought process is, but I do know that it was important to them to be first.

Right. So he was awarded the Medal of Honor and then after he received his, then John received his. Right. I believe he got his in May. and John got his in August. Even though they went through at the same time?

Yes. Okay, so we're starting to see a pattern here if we haven't already seen the pattern. But the pattern just repeats itself. And now we have this newest wrinkle, which is why we're all talking tonight. It's why I haven't slept in almost three days because I've been so pissed.

Can you tell us a little bit about what's going on now? Well, let's see. Back in, I don't know, 2012, 23, I ended up, long story short, we got connected with a couple people from the museum when they were building it. And they did a Zoom meeting with my sister, my brother, and my mom, and me.

And, you know, talked about how they wanted us to, you know, maybe look for artifacts to help out with, you know, if we wanted to donate or lend them something to show John's story, whatever. So that was, I don't know, April of 23. And then February of 24, I went to the museum itself with a friend of mine. And thank God I didn't go alone. Just because of what's going on now. So we were given, they pulled out all the stops. The museum is going to be absolutely fantastic.

It's beautiful. And it's one of a kind state of the art. We were shown where John's exhibit may be. They brought us into a conference room and talked, showed us a little mockup of like what his photo would be and wanted input on the wording because they just had like Air Force airmen or something. I said, how about Air Force Combat Controller? Like, that's what he was. And so they're, oh, yeah, we'll do that. And then they were asking, the person who is with me actually was from the unit. And, you know, hey, can you help us out? That's why he was there. He said, I'll help you out with, you know, whatever we can find that you might want for the, for his exhibit. They were all about it. You know, we went on our way and I was excited and happy and I, waited for him to say, oh, it's okay to blast it out there to everybody that, this was just recently, that the, so it's opening, the grand opening is March 25th, but on the 22nd and the 23rd is that weekend is for family and friends.

And so all this time, all this different communications back and forth with them, it was John's having an exhibit. And so I put it out there when he's, said it was good to go that John was having an exhibit and you know this 22nd is for family only but you guys anybody can come for the 23rd of March and lots of people were excited to go and then things just started um I don't know just things started not making sense or I asked if a while I was in the meeting I just said I'm sure you know the controversy between Slavinsky and John, and they agreed, yes, we know. And at that point in time, I, I think I just found out that Slavinsky was on the board of the museum.

And I just said, I don't want him to have anything to do with John's exhibit, no wording, no story. And they assured me, nope, that's not going to happen. And then I asked them on email, are you going to offer my book in your gift shop? And the only reason I asked that was because I know it's contradictory to what they're going to say for SLEB's exhibit. And I got the canned, you know, well, you know, we have lots of books and we have minimal space, so we don't know what we're going to do yet. And I don't know, just things just started rolling.

I asked someone to kind of look into it for me. And that person's source from within the museum told, said that what we were shown when we had our tour was not accurate that they misled us. And I was shocked. this person's source said it's it's going to it's looking like john will be minimized and slobinski will be elevated and i tried on my own to verify that with other um sources and i couldn't so i decided to just kind of sit on it and not say anything not do anything because i couldn't verify it. And then all this time, so I went there in February of 24, and they never ever contacted my mother. They never contacted my brother, my sister, nobody. They, the nobody

contacted them from the museum. And then finally, my mom sent an email to them to the museum itself because she didn't have any specific emails. So she sent it to the general email. for the museum. And where she got a, she got an immediate answer. You know, and she basically called them out on it. It said, no one has, this was just recently. She says, no one has contacted me. No one's called me, nothing. And, and that's, that's when the curator called her. That was only like two weeks ago. So from February of 24, there was no time to contact my mother until she sent an email. And then once I knew, that she had sent an email and that she was upset

I was like gloves off I don't care you my mom's upset and so I sent them an email telling them what I had been told said I pray that this is not true because it's just going to shed a it's just going to tarnish the museum

and that's not fair to everybody who really earned their medals and deserve to have their stories told right and um Lori, a little bit of just like, but I want to hear about what the curator had to tell your mother, but just a little bit of context. The museum, is it a national museum? Is it run by a not-for-profit? Is it commercial? Who is the board of directors? Like, is this a governmental entity?

Well, it's a national museum, so I would assume that it has some kind of national funding, but I've heard otherwise. So I don't know for sure. I know they have a foundation that runs it, the Medal of Honor Foundation or Medal of Honor Museum Foundation or whatever, that is headed by a Navy SEAL and has a few Navy SEALs on it. Slavinsky's wife is on it and in some capacity. And yeah, I don't know who's running the show or where the money's coming from. And also to give some context.

So everybody, everybody, American who has been a recipient of a Medal of Honor will be mentioned. But when you talk about exhibits, from what I understand, and please correct me if I'm wrong, there is room for 200 full exhibits detailing everything about what is happening. And there will be rotations of people being featured, but there will be 200 exhibits when it opens. And then every other recipient will have like plaques or, you know,

there'll be mentioned throughout the museum, but it won't be like a full display, a full exhibit. And here we are talking about the only airman who won a Medal of Honor during the GWAT, one of two who have won one, you know, for, and I don't know if it's airmen or CCTV, because I don't know if anyone,

I think it was just one during the Vietnam War. And only one of two that have ever been captured on film because we recently found out that Alexander Bonneman was captured during Tarawa by a combat cameraman. Oh, wow. Okay. But we're talking about a museum that is there to educate people. We are talking about audiovisual products, right, that where we can actually see the heroism

that it takes to be a recipient of one of these awards because nobody I mean when I watch John's video I personally I question myself I wonder if I would have had that kind of courage if I would have that kind of fortuneing I'd like to think I would have but but you know

but you watch that and it is it is truly if you want to see what it takes to earn that metal, yes, you can read these amazing write-ups of very, you know, valorous deeds, you know, even like talk about Alwyn Cash, you know, running back and forth, you know, and pulling people, while on fire, pulling people out of a burning building or burning vehicle. Like, you can read these, and it's one thing, but to watch it, and to see what it takes to be a recipient of that work. That is what that museum is there for, right?

That is what that museum is there to instill in people and evoke those types of emotions. And for them to say that's not an adequate, you know, that somehow Slobinski gets a, an exhibit, one of those 200 exhibits. And John Chapman doesn't. Now, we're not saying, we're not saying, don't give Slavinsky one. It's not, it for tat. But if he can earn one, then certainly John should be a shoe-in for that.

John should be front and center. It's on video. What more could you ask for in a museum of honor, you know, museum or a metal of honor museum. Right. Right. And I want to make it clear. Okay, I'm not, I respect all of the Medal of Honor recipients or most of them because I have heard a couple of our stories, but that's another day. I respect them. I believe they deserve to be in there. Their stories deserve to be told.

And nobody does, you know, should, John doesn't deserve any more than any of these other heroes to have an exhibit. What started this whole thing for me was all for an entire year. We were, I was told, my family was told John's going to have an exhibit. We told friends and family, John's going to have an exhibit. And they knew, they knew at some point in time, they knew that he wasn't going to have one. And yet they had no intention of telling us. I had to ask pointed questions. I had to ask specifically, so John's not having one.

No, he's not. So Slavitsky is having one. Yes, he is. and that was only recently. Right. And so I, I, since I had already told everyone, hey, this is happening, I had to then go tell them, this is what's happening now. So you have to decide whether you want to spend the money to go. And of, you know, me being me, I added some colorful commentary in there too.

So, but this whole thing just started because it did nothing, none of this had to happen. If they had Slavinsky have an exhibit and John have an exhibit like they told us they would. Right. None of this would be happening. Right. It's very weird, isn't it? Like that they instigated this controversy that they need to exist. Right.

And again, you know, if one were, you know, to look at this in the least favorable way, one could say that they don't want John front and center. They don't want his exhibit. they don't want the video presented. Someone's putting their thumb on the scale. Because it, it, then they'll, then you go to Slavinsky's right up and you're like, but that's not what we saw in the video. Right.

And every time that John, when I saw online and they've taken it down and I don't know if they put the same thing back up or they, they have different dates for John and the Tucker Gar and Slavinsky for the 20th anniversary back in 22. I don't know. It was up. It took it down and now apparently it's back up. But John has a different date. John is a February 28th when, okay, I don't know what that is all about. But I don't know. None of this had to happen. Right. Right. And it does, it does not look good that Slavinsky's on the board of directors. No. And every time, oh, that's where I was going with it. John's, anytime John was mentioned in the Battle of Talker Garb press release, his press release, and Slavinsky's press release, anytime John is minimized, his actions are

minimized almost to the point of obsolution, like why was he even there? Why did he even get the metal? And then they made it sound like Slavinsky had this freaking cape on and he was the hero of the whole mountain, you know, the whole mission. And which is maybe why they took it down initially.

But it's so even though, even when John is mentioned, he's minimal. His actions are minimized. And even on the wall of the timeline wall of Medal of Honor, his icon, his little, it's like a little tiny thing. And then you have all these other ones that are giant. And he's just got this little teeny photo for people to notice or not notice

because it's so small compared to some of the other ones. So, I mean, I really, and I could be completely wrong. But I feel like there was a lot of thought and effort put into this, how to minimize John and how to elevate Slabinsky with fiction. I don't know. Well, I think one thing that needs to be said that probably most people don't know, there are, there's on top of what you did on a mission true or false. That's part of the getting the award, right? To get the Medal of Honor, you have to do something that's worthy of getting a Medal of Honor. But there's also other requirements. Like you can't be accused of a crime.

You can't be kicked out of a unit or a special specialty unit. You can't, like there's a lot of things that are part of the decision making. There are many, there have been many exceptions made to that that I dare not mention in this podcast.

I'll name one, Brits Slubinsky. But Slubinsky was PNG from SEAL Team 6. He's kicked out of command. He's on the rock of shame. He was a few of war crimes. All those things are disqualifiers. he should never have even been eligible for a Medal of Honor, let alone receive one for not doing the thing that he supposedly received it for.

So the lie is is multi-layered. It's not just Britt got one because they tied it to Johns, and that's just the way that. There's a lot of moving parts that led to the cover-up that allowed for Brad, Chris Lewinsky to get his Medal of Honor. Right. So it's a layered approach that they've performed. affected over time over many, many different cover-ups.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, to tie this back to Jack, his writing partner, you guys have your substack high side. In May of 2018, actually wrote a story in Newsweek, and it was Sean Naylor, and it was entitled, The Navy Seals allegedly left behind a man in Afghanistan. did they also try to block his Medal of Honor? And it goes into a lot of this quite a bit in detail.

So, you know, definitely check that out. I linked it in the chat. But this is just, and again, if they could have avoided all this by just giving John equal due, or they might have even been able to avoid it if neither John nor Slab had it. But the way it looks now, It looks nefarious.

Whether it is or not, it looks nefarious. It looks like they're playing games and the cover-up is still in effect. You're muted, Matt. Thank you. I try to mute myself because I have been dealing with a cold and I've been clearing my throat a lot. So to give context to why I'm passionate about this and how 2012, 10 years I'm after battle attack or guard, Joe Price has found dead in his bunk. And for 12 years, they've been saying he committed suicide.

And I know the proof that he was murdered in his bunk as the commander's sealing four in Afghanistan. And there isn't a single person prior to me getting involved that even knew about it. Right. Imagine how you can keep one of 10 commanders who dies in theater at the time, the highest-fanking person to ever die in theater. and no one knew about it. How much of a cover-up is there when you can hide that for this long?

Do you have any inkling of a motive, Matt? Oh, yeah. And it's always the same thing. Money. Yeah. It's always missing money, right? Yeah. And the brand.

And, well, yeah, the brand. And, you know, when, and not to go off tangent into Job, but Job was John Chapman. right, they were the same persons. They were the white knight. They were the good guy. They were the ones that would help anybody. They were,

um, Job was more of a, probably more of an anal retentive rule follower, but he was, and that's why he was, he was a commander because he had order and discipline and, and, yeah,

yeah, to manage things like that. And, you know, he wasn't, um, he wasn't the guy to let the guys just do whatever they want. He wanted to have some,

some military bearing and, you know, we're professionals. And, you know, we're professionals. And I think there was some people that that rubbed the wrong way. There were some ASOP money that went missing. There's, you know, there was a couple deaths of seals. One was an ambush as a result of some crap that SEAL Team 2 did,

which is who SEAL Team 4 relieved. And one of his guys got murdered in an ambush because of a field team two guys killed an Afghani national and there was some retribution called and they took it and you know so there was a lot of things happening at that time and there was some anger involved and I don't want to get in too much details what happened and why but yes I mean it's always money but Matt you know since you bring it up I mean I would appreciate it because you you know for a long time people were saying oh it's just a conspiracy it's just conspiracy but you said like new evidence and you've been hot on it and you've you know, brought in forensics experts and other crime scene investigators and things like that.

Can you tell us sort of some of the things that helped you guys break it from that, from that conspiracy into saying, now, something, something went down. Yeah, I'd be happy to. So I'll preface it with, I was a hit a wall. 20 to, 2020, I hit a wall. I just couldn't break through and get any more information. and I'll be honest, why they was exhausted. In January, 24, I had a chance to interview Rob O'Neill,

and I had been given some information from some people in that raid that contradicted what Rob was saying happened. And so I was the only person ever in a face-to-face interview, remind you on Zoom, but challenge him on his narrative. And I got him to get a little frazzled, and I realized that that, be doing that drove attention, because during that episode, I talked to him. about Joe. And I'm like, all right. So what if I, and, and it, because of that interview went viral.

And so I started getting on another podcast and I'm like, okay, maybe if I can follow the same kind of blueprint, you know, leak some stuff that I know, not too controversial, but enough, you know, there's some stuff that was already publicly known. I just sort of accentuated it about Marks Latrell, about Jocko Willink, about Sean Ryan. And in each one of these podcasts, I would say something about one of them that was going to get the people test off and get people to watch. And they used them at Reels and it brought people to the podcast and they watched and heard about Joe. So all of those things got millions of views and got Eric Deming, who you guys had on, to come out as a whistleblower.

And then he got the Marines to come out and be whistleblowers. And there's this cyclical, I mean, this continuation. of one interview that created all these other waves that followed. So from that, lots of people were watching podcasts that I was mentioning Joe born with a 10-second reel of me talking about somebody else. And it was a plan that I used and it worked well. And it was kind of a last ditch. I'm done if I can't get this thing across the finish line.

So we ended up getting a documentary film company to see one of my podcasts. and we now have a documentary film in development, and we have an Academy Award-nominated, director, and producer, and it's going to be fantastic. But from that, they also were able, on my end as well, we were able to get forensic people to reach out and say, hey, what you're describing does not sound like suicide. Do you mind sending me his book?

And so the book is like 400 pages of the crime scene book, for lack of a better word. and they all said exactly the same thing. He was murdered and the reasons why were all the same. Now, I'm a cop and I've been on thousands of scenes in 30 years. I know what doesn't look right, but I may not know exactly why it doesn't look right. And I knew, you know, from everything that I knew as an investigator,

Job did not fool himself, but I couldn't point out all the forensic stuff that proved it. Like you go in any court of law and these guys were experts, and they will prove that Job was murdered. And that's the part now that I'm at where I don't have to be the guy championing, trying to convince people that Job didn't commit suicide and that all they want to say is I wasn't there, and that he was depressed. There are two things that I get back from anybody, especially guys on the team that are angry with me,

is that I wasn't there and that he was depressed. I'm like, well, I know a lot of depressed people that are still alive. and so that is not a piece of evidence. That's just information. I said, but I now have forensic evidence and I don't really care what anybody says anymore. I don't have to prove it. And can you sort of elucate

like some of those pieces of forensics evidence were that helped you guys, you know, make your determination? Well, some of it I can't say because it's obviously they want to use it for the documentary. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, there was the main manipulation of his body. blood splatter

yeah like things that just didn't right wouldn't have happened where he was found right right right where he was you know now I will say and someone had you know and asked me this about the gun you know there there were things that I didn't have and it wasn't until I things became very popular that the Navy decided to start to answer my foias

and I got some of that information back like the GSR gunshot residue test the ballistics on the firearm, the bullet in the casing, the blood DNA evidence, all that stuff finally came back late in 24. And the best part is none of it changed the outcome. Right. If anything, it proved the ineptitude and the cover-up was even more real. Like, if you're GSR testing, you would GSR test things like somebody's hand, right, to find

out if there was a big part of gun. Right. GSR tested the wood board underneath his mattress. They didn't test it. They didn't test it. NCIS agents, yeah. The DNA didn't show any, they tested the DNA on the pillow and on the side of his bed.

Like things that you would like, why would you, how's that even relatively something that could be contaminated with someone else's blood or other? other type of evidence. The gun and the bullet was tested and I had no doubt that if there was a bullet casing and a gun that they were probably going to be coming from the same place. But what they didn't test for, they didn't test for any type of brain matter, any type of bone matter, any type of hair matter, any type of anything. They just proved that the gun fired that bullet, which expelled that casing. I could go outside right now, shoot a gun in my front yard, take that bullet, put it in my pocket,

a casing in my pocket and then take that gun bullet and casing and put it anywhere. Right. And it still doesn't mean that wherever I put it, anything happened there. Right, right. You know what I'm saying? So there's just nothing that links the gun to Job, the other than it was his gun. Right. There's nothing to show that it was fired by him.

There's nothing that shows it was fired through his head, which is what happened. He was shot in the head. There was, you know, a severe, I mean, the wound on his head is clearly not, wasn't, caused by the gun that he was holding. There's just some, I mean, it's just, it's, it's endless. And the top of it off is, you know, his team washed his entire body, removed the bags that the NCIS guy put on, washed his hands, dressed him in his, is fatigues, all against orders of the NCIS.

Nobody was held accountable for minimal throwing a crime scene. And Job's body was left in his bump, unsupervised. After he was found dead and and yes, an agent arrived and said, yes, he's dead. They locked his door, gave the key to the last person that saw him alive and the first person to find him dead and said,

don't go in the room and don't let anybody else go in the room. And they came back eight and a half hours later. So anything could have been put in or taken out of that room and nobody would know. Right. And you can chalk it up to inaptitude. You can chalk up to many different things. But it doesn't change the fact that the only piece of evidence that they had that Job killed himself, is that he was dead?

Jesus Christ. There's not another piece of actual evidence that exists. And the fact that he was sad or depressed or struggling with a lot of things happening when you're the commander of the SEAL team does not indicate suicide. Right. And there's a link between John and Job. Yeah, Timsman. Yeah.

Clint Somancy, it was Joe's ball, was in country a week before Joe was dead. A loud conversation was overheard between the two. You know, Tim goes back, sees Job's wife, she asks him, because Nick Check was a seal that died earlier that month, not with Job. And they were all at this funeral back in Virginia. And Webb's wife asked, how's my husband doing? And she said, Samancy's like, he's crushing it. He won a great job.

And then, you know, three days before Christmas, he's dead. No, no. No. And mind you, who is in his bunk asleep in the same manner, supposedly, in the same manner which he slept all the time. And, you know, I've been on a lot of suicide scenes and I've never seen anybody kill himself in their sleep. Right.

And the angle, which his arm had to be for the bullet to travel, impossible. photos were destroyed no no extra copies available um you name it yeah everything that you could would ever want to prove now what they did do and and i'm going to say his guys killed him or the only um nobody heard oh nobody heard the bullet nobody heard the gunshot in one of the green miles and i'm sure you guys have been in those and you know they're concrete and metal echo chambers you know they say guys are you know having phone sucks with their wives and everybody can hear it. You know, it's like there's there's no privacy. Right. And the fact that nobody, you know, and these are trained warriors. They know what a gunshot is. They're not going to sleep

through a gunshot. Everybody's at, you know, orange and almost red at all times. Right. So you're not dead asleep and not getting up if a nine millimeter round goes cranking off in a green mile. But all that, and that's what I've been fighting with. That's my ammunition. I've been using since I started this, but now I have independent who don't know each other. None of them know each other exists. And that's the best part is that they're all coming to the same conclusion without any other one knowing the other's even doing it. Right, right.

I now have experts that are saying he was murdered. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't, and the connection of the cover up, you know, you think about how what cover up is executed, you know, Johns, I called Roberts Ridge the original sin. That's where they realized that we have an ability to keep. narratives changed to alter reality and then never acknowledged any of it. The best place to cover up a murder is in a war zone.

Yeah. It's the how do you get away with murder sometimes figuratively and sometimes literally. Yeah. How do you and then how do you then turn what happened, whether it was a monumental failure like lone survivor with Marks LaTrell, turn a monumental failure into a blockbuster movie and a blockbuster book. We now know Marks LaTrell said so to Rob O'Neill

that he didn't write the book. He was given the book. He was given a handler. He was given PR people. He was given media coaching. He was sent on a book tour and he was told, this is now your official duty as the United States Navy. Right.

And there's enough empirical evidence out now The things that are outlined in that movie and that book are completely as fictitious as Brett Slavinsky's Medal of Honor. Right. And if you think how, and you talk about, and I'm glad it's sort of, I don't know always which direction I'm going when I talk. But the fact that we got here is when you're talking about the video and how it does something to you, right? You see John's heroism and it does something inside of it. It's the same thing that maybe used when they created lone survivor and a loaned at dawn. I mean, what's the one with Chris Kyle?

American sniper. Right. Right. They're instilling that feeling, except Johns was real and actual footage. Their is Hollywood. Right. And they know that they can use that to their advantage to get, I mean, recruiting, obviously, is with a big thing. But also to build the brand.

And when we're talking about this, we're talking more than just Naval Special Warfare, because really naval special warfare, the SEALs are a huge recruiting component to the Navy. Like the Navy, you know, both with a top gun and then also with anything to do with SEALs, the Navy, you know, helps these movies immensely because they are major recruiting drives for the Navy.

And I think that there was a concerted, And Lori, you can probably confirm this that Tim Samanski and people in his sphere wanted the Navy SEALs to become the preeminent counterterrorism insurgency destroyer unit, specialty unit in the military. They didn't want Delta Force. They didn't want special forces. They didn't want Green Beret. I mean, Rangers going in and doing the work. They wanted to get those missions. And that's why, you know, Robert's Ridge happened.

And that's why Marks' return on loan survivor happened. They took control of J-Soc essentially and made sure that they were the first choice for these missions. And that was all part of also building the brand to make sure that we can, we can, and they realize they could dictate any narrative they wanted as a result, regardless of outcome. And unfortunately, whoever did ASOC continue to let it happen did, I mean, it got to the point where, I mean, Timson Minsky retired as the number two of J-Soc. Right. Right. So the influence is strong.

And rolling this all back to John's story and how they've stepped on it repeatedly. And even when it comes to this museum, that it's almost as if they are still trying to control the narrative. That's what it seems like. The heroism that was displayed that day, yeah, John, you know, yeah, there is some heroism there, too, but like, look, look at Slab. That's the, that's the heroism that happened that day. So, um, so what, go ahead. I'm sorry about that day. No, please, Matt, go ahead.

Again, I apologize. Um, the, the realities are, is that, you know, Just as a casual observer, everybody should know that they, what they see, if I'm just a moviegoer or I'm watching Netflix or whatever, I know what I'm watching. I know what's available. I know what's in the guide, right? There are no Green Beret Special Forces movies out that people are going, yep, those were alive. There are no Army Ranger movies or Air Force or Coast Guard or Space Force movies out there. The only thing that's out there is what you were given to see, and that's the Navy,

pushing movies, mostly with Navy SEALs, in order to build recruitment. I'm sure there is also some benefit to the other branches through recruiting. And I'm not necessarily against that, if it's true. You know, that's the problem. If it's true, then knock your socks off. let's get these warriors out there and showcase what they did and let them make as much money as they want. The problem is it's not true. I mean, you now have, you know, and I know it's not part of this conversation, but you have Tim Kennedy.

Right. You know, so there's, and they're all, if you just look at who hangs with who, right, you are who you associate with. And, and at the end of the day, they're all insulated. You know, we're not. We don't have, I'm not going to inaugural balls. Right. You know, I'm not sitting fourth row behind the president. You know what I'm saying? There's a lot of,

was that both inauguration things today? Invited. So is Tim. That makes me washes. Was he? Who's at one of the events? Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I read that that's the right or the one of the perks for any Medal of Honor recipient. They can, if they choose to go. So obviously he chose to go. Yeah. He was at John's Medal of Honor. ceremony. I wanted to throw up, but it wasn't my call. Yeah. So what, what, Lori, for you, what is, what is the ideal outcome for you at this point? I don't know. I mean, can there be one? You know, this, this is, this whole thing is way bigger than just John having an exhibit or not.

Right. That's just like almost a side effect of, of the seals this particular group of seals in their their weird desire to just sideline john and and elevate this guy who was the weak leader at best and you know i don't know have a fictional fiction writer write his his uh citation or take from john's actions and and and i i mean i'm I'm curious to see what this exhibit of his is, you know, because it's not going to be truthful. So I don't know what the outcome is. I love the fact that you guys have the petition and how many people have signed it. And almost even if so if John has an exhibit now, that means somebody else has to be not have an exhibit who was going to have one, whose family was told that they're going to have one.

and that's not fair to that family either. So I don't know what the outcome is. And, you know, and it's almost like, okay, you got your way. Now he has an exhibit, big deal. You know, I don't want that. I don't want this whole thing to take away from anything that they might have for John. And again, like I said, to make room for John, they have to take something away. And, you know, and if that's the case, if one person has to be eliminated, then you know who I think it should be.

Sure. Sure. Because, well, no one else deserves to, you know, their whole family has been told. He's going to have an exhibit. Come on down. The other thing that gets me is that if there are living members, living service members, recipients, you know, they can go do their speeches. They are still here to tell their story, right? and and not saying that any living recipients

do not deserve the recognition they get because, you know, I'm sure that 99% of them absolutely 100% do. But they can still tell their story. You know, the people who aren't with us anymore, they're the ones who we should be the focus, in my opinion. For me, if I had an award,

and I were on a board I would happily gladly give up my spot in an exhibit to ensure that somebody who wasn't still around to tell their story that they were presented.

That's right. And the irony is, here's the irony. If they had, so their playbook is idiotic. Like if they had just done that, reversed it,

says I'm on the board. It's not right for me. It's not optically. It's not right for me. Whatever, whatever the case is, we really should honor John. That would have worked in their favor. Right. You know what I'm saying? And the fact that they didn't, it's just more of their their idiotic playbook. I don't know. Right. I don't know. Yeah. It's a lot like, they're like politicians. They can flip flop at nauseam and they don't care if you call them a flip flip, It's whatever, whatever gets them the power seat or elevates them in any way, that's the side they're going to take. And that's kind of the way the seal brand is, is they don't care. They don't care if I'm out there stumping or at John Chapman's sister is writing books. They don't care about any of that because they know they're insulated.

This goes way deeper than anything anybody could even imagine. They don't care. They wouldn't have cared if my mother, you know, that my mom is going to, you know, she's not the, best of health, get there, be all excited to see her son. Right. Only to find out that it was, I mean, thank God we knew ahead of time. Right. And she's still interested in going.

But, I mean, they were willing to let this little old lady who's, you know, go there and find out when she's there. There's nothing but this little video and a photo that's going to flip through 300, 3,500 people. They were willing to do that. Right. Right. And that's what really got. me was you were willing to hurt our family again be cut for your guy. It's wrong.

Matt, you know, you mentioned, we talked a little bit about the SEAL movies and, you know, the SEAL representation in Hollywood. There was, I know that Alone at Dawn had been optioned, right? And that weren't there talks about Jake Gillenhall playing John? And is that still, because there's been rumors that, that that naval special warfare may be behind the scenes trying to inhibit that effort too. Have you heard anything about that or is that just like, is that just roomint at this point? I've heard from pretty good sources that there is a strong push very similar to what they were doing

when the middle of honor drama started that they don't want that movie to come out. And the powers that be Pentagon, There's a lot of power positions that are involved in this that are fighting. And quite frankly, the Air Force is not fighting hard enough, right? There's not enough. There's not enough. Let's draw a line in the sand and let's see who crosses it.

There's no shovel to face. The Air Force cares about for their fighter pilots. Yeah. Yeah, the Air Force is about the jockeys and not necessarily. This whole thing is like very interesting because it's so much of it is about like the fabric of American culture and the stories we tell ourselves and what stories we're going to tell and which we're not. Yeah.

I mean, I'm 100%. The victor always has boils, right? The one, you know, history is written by the winners. And the ones that have usually the loudest wheel gets the most grease. And that's kind of the Navy, right? That's the Navy SEALs. They're the loudest wheel. And they're getting the most grease.

They get the most attention. They get the most publicity, get the most fame. to get the most fortune, you get the most everything, but they also have the most failures. And that's the biggest thing for me is that how do I, at part of my mission of solving Job's case, I used the tactic of stealing light from a Jocko

or Sean Ryan or Rob O'Neill because Job had none. So I stole some of their shine and put it on Joe. And that's kind of what when Lori called me and told me what they did to John and what they were doing for Slavs, I was like, fuck this, pardon my French. And I sort of mobilized everything that I knew how to do to create people talking, whether it's getting podcasts to do shows or doing a show or whatever. And it's time to take some of the light off of Ritz-Labinsky publicly and put it on John.

And also shine a light on the dark secrets that are being hidden. by the Navy Seals. Yeah. So I got my phone is full of text from Navy Seals that are in my, my floor with people that are supportive of what we're doing saying, I can't believe this guy is representing us. Right. And that's the thing. And, you know, Matthew Cole mentioned that.

Also, you know, other people have mentioned this that the seal community is not rotten. It's not there, there are some, there are a lot of very solid dudes in that. community, you know, very brave warriors, you know, tactically, technically proficient. It's that they keep getting represented by, you know, a handful of these people who seem to have an outsized amount of influence that are creating these issues. and a culture has been created where they they they circle the wagons tighter than any unit i've ever seen yeah yeah like as a collective they are man it is it is it is it is incestuate yeah like it's like a domestic violence victim who doesn't want her husband to get arrested but wants the beatings to

thought yeah like what yeah it's it drives me nuts and i tell a lot of the guys that are that talk to me. I'm like, why won't you go public? We need courageous warriors who go undone, undone being part of an organization that does this kind of shit. And they, they, some of them have, you know, some, not nothing crazy, but enough to where they're worried about getting

jammed up. Right. Some of them are collective. Some of them worried about things coming back out of their closet to come get them, right? So there's, there's all of that. And, you know, we have 20 years of words. Yeah. And it becomes, it becomes a mafia. at a certain point where they all have dirt on each other. Yes. And that's exactly what it is. Yeah.

And it's unfortunate. Like I happen to really like guys like Andy Stump. Like I think that they're out there. I think that they try to call the balls and strikes how they see them. You know, I think there are a lot of guys out there that are trying to do the right thing. But then they get shunned by the community. And nobody wants to be shunned by your community.

Nobody wants that. Exactly. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, no, Lord. Well, I was going to say, you know, it's not just that you know you're saying you have these navy seals who are past and present whatever who are talking to you and saying you know this is my brotherhood and i don't like what's

going on but i don't want to and there are it's not just these these these good seals who have stories and know things it's it's it is the combat controllers it is the pararescue it is the rangers it is delta all these other people know what's going on to all these other people don't want to deploy with the SEALs because they know they're either going to get injured or killed or something's going to happen. You know, so it can't just be the SEALs who come forward, although that would be nice, because they're from within. But, I mean, it has to be a collective of enough is enough here.

You know, they're taking advantage of the, you know, the combat controllers in Parascue. Like Matt had said, they've been involved or I think one of you guys said, they're in, most of the things that have happened, one of them or both of them are involved. in it, but you don't know about it. The public doesn't know. The seals go, well, that was us or whatever. And because they're the true silent professionals, so the seals are taking advantage of that mindset. We're the silent professionals. We're not going to come out and say, well, that was me. And so they take it. And it's just, it has to be a collective. Like I said, this is bigger than just John having an exhibit. It's everything we're talking about and more. I feel like I have to

point out that it's not widely publicized. but there have been a number of times where Dev Group have left Rangers behind on objectives. People don't really know about that, but that has happened numerous times during the war on terror. And I think there is, and I am a staunch libertarian. I am against most government stuff. And having worked for basically state and local

and federal government for 35 cheers, I think I have a perspective that lends for that would be true that I didn't want no more of it and I see the value of limiting it. But you send, you know, the industrial, military industrial complex sends our young men and women to war for 20 years. And we train them to be killers and we rotate them in and out and expect them to somehow assimilate back into life. And then, oh, by the way, go back and become this killer again.

And when you take the guardrails off of these guys and you say, okay, we're not going to have as much oversight. We're not going to have as much critiquing on on tactics and techniques and all that. That's when things like dealing money, killing your commander, leaving a guy to die, those things become okay. Yeah. And that's not a, that's not, that's not a place we as a country need to be. We need to go back to having guardrails. We need to go back to having a set, you know, set of rules and procedures that are followed and people leaders, true leaders, who have the ability to lead in battle and hold their men accountable and have men who go, I want to, I want to follow that leader because he is that strong of the,

as convictions and understands the mission and objective, and they do that. And I think somewhere over the course of 20 years that fell apart. Right. And they're expecting it to just be okay now. Right. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's a tough situation. I mean, first off, I want to ask everybody, if you were watching this,

you know, we have 4 and 22 people watching right now. Delinked the petition. Please go to the petition, sign it, share it. You know, obviously, a petition is just a petition. And we can't force, you know, the National Medal of Honor Museum to do anything. but you know hopefully we can put pressure on them we can bring awareness to this

but we would ask that you know that you go and sign that now or when you do listen to this definitely please read alone at dawn it's it's an amazing amazing story

and check out Matt's other work Matt you're pretty out there people can find you you know you're on Instagram you're on YouTube where else can people find you Matt that's pretty much it at Matt Coobbler

M-A-T-C-U-B-B-L-E-R for both Instagram and I'm on Twitter too but I don't really know how to use that I'm just starting to figure it out but I do we have a website for the documentary film for anybody who has information about Joe who wants to be a confidential source or whatever

it's who killed Job Bryce So I want to make sure everybody went there. And my goal for the Medal of Honor Museum is to make sure that if no changes are made and things go forward as planned, that there is a gigantic spotlight placed on it on the 22nd and 23rd. And I'm going to be coming down with a film crew to make sure that I go and speak to every single member of that board on camera, including Brits Levinsky, and ask them why they chose to go the route they did. To be honest with all of this, I was just going to say if, if I'm not working on those days,

because I have a busy work schedule coming up. If I'm not working, I will fly down there and just do a sit-in outside the museum. I mean, you know, I don't want to disrespect what the museum is for and the, you know,

the 3,000 plus service members who have earned the Medal of Honor, but also this is, something I'm not a protester. I've never been to a protest in my life, but I would be willing to do a sit-in because this is, this is a, it's a vital issue to me. If we cannot honor somebody like John Chapman, and if we allow these politics to play out in our military community, like the veterans have to be the guardians of, you know, of the integrity of the military. civilians you know they can you know they can do their they can do their reporting they can do everything like that

but but we're the people who can say okay great you went to war yeah i did too so so you know the whole you don't know you weren't there okay but we do know we were there um i i feel it's incumbent on us to to do things like that um so i will definitely be there if if i am not working on those days um and And, you know, Lori, we love you, we appreciate you. You know, your family has given more than 99% of the families in the United States ever will. Your brother is, you know, a true hero. There's, like I said, I cannot watch that video and not get emotional. And again, it's one of those things where when I watch it, I'm like, would I have that same fortitude?

I would hope so, you know, but just, you know, you never know. You know, when he started his IMT and started engaging, it's like, that's how Rangers are trained to, like, he was moving with a purpose. And his purpose was to save the lives of the other people on that mountain. And he did. Right. And before he deployed, he saw my sister. And I don't know if it was one of the last things he said to her. But while he was with her, he told her, I will do anything in my power to protect my team.

Yes. He was before he even left. That was his mindset. And that's what he did. They are all, all of them are living today because of what he did. on March 4th, 2002. And we have Nate in chat. Nate said,

fuck slab, justice for chap. Oh, geez. Yeah, we love Nate. Anybody who's not checking out Nate's channel, make sure you check it out. Valholla VFT, he's a top-tier human being and we love him.

Is there anything else that we haven't covered tonight that you guys would like to touch upon or talk about? Okay. Lori, you know, because I know that Dan doesn't really want to be involved in a lot of the politics, but we would love to maybe

have you guys back together sometime to just talk about alone at dawn and go through that. It's a incredibly well-written book. And again, it's not just about the events on Robert's Ridge. it's you know it's about cCT and i'm sorry right the history yeah uh john did i say Nate oh John oh yeah but yeah it's not just about John yeah i've been saying Nate uh okay

yeah but it's about John and cCT and you know and everything else around yeah i think I would imagine as long as you know you just keep the politics out of it because you know Dan's on his his second journey in his life of just being kind of zen and and um he's not interested in that. But I imagine he would want to talk about the book. I get it. I get it. And we can talk about the book without all of the other

the museum and all the other things. So. Right, right. So yeah. We love you guys. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing this with us. It's something that's very important to us. And I hope it

is important to a lot of people. Yeah, so if there's anything else, say again? I just, I want to say that Lori, Lori found out the power of a social media post. Yeah, this is what happened when you let it fly on Facebook and then this is, this is what comes from it. Yeah. I'm, you know, I'm glad you did, Lori.

Like, we're coming in on this on sort of the tail end. You know, Nate has already talked about it on his channel, other people been talking about, Matt's been talking about it. We're sort of like Johnny Come Lately's, but we want to do what we can to help and, you know. But I hope this isn't the tail end. Because like I said, this is not just about John

being in the Medal of Honor Museum. This is about so much more. So I hope this is just the beginning and it's not the tail end. Yeah. Yeah, I do too. You know, and we've talked about this before. We've talked about it.

You know, with Matthew Cole, we've talked about it, you know, with other people that. that that that community needs to be reformed. You know, the community needs, it needs some strong leadership. You know. And I just, again, I just want to reiterate that I'm,

it hurts me that the other metal bond recipients are going to be kind of under a cloud of, you know, this, what's going on here. They don't deserve this. Correct. They deserve to have their day and enjoy their time and their families enjoy their time. So it makes me sad, but I don't take ownership of it. I put out a post saying, hey, this is what's happening.

You decide whether you want to come or not. And among other things I said. But yeah, I don't take ownership of what's going on and the cloud that's hanging over the museum. Right, right. You get right. It's not your fault. You shouldn't just be quiet in a corner so that everybody else enjoys their day when there's an injustice going on. And an injustice for one is an injustice for all and right is always the right thing to do. Correct. That's true. Thank you guys for having us on. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Friday. Next episode, Tom Gaines, who is the author of Quantum Dagger. He is a special option.

officer. I read the novel. It's very good. It's very cool. And then at the end of the month, we'll have Darrell Ute, a 10th Special Forces Group guy. So that's what's coming up. The petition, where can people go to hear more about this? So in our links down below, we have a link to the petition. Honestly, if you just search change.org and John Chapman, you'll find it. We have a link to the Predator video. If you have not watched that, you have to. It, it, it,

Hollywood wishes they could create a story of this kind of bravery, honestly. And then we also have the citations for both John Chapman. Thanks, Dee, for John Chapman and Britt Slubinsky. We have both of their citations that you can read for your edification. and then also find Matt MacCubbler C-U-B-B-L-E-R on

YouTube and Instagram and Lori, aside from alone at dawn, is there any place people can find you? Is there any place on social media? I'm on Facebook. That's it. I'm technologically challenged, so that's about all I can handle.

Okay. All right. And the link for Alone at Dawn is also in the description as well. Right. You'll link for Alone at Dawn. And I highly, highly, highly recommend it's a phenomenal book great great place to start for folks that want to learn more yeah yeah so and also you know uh i linked in the chat uh sean's article from newsweek yep yep which is very which is a very good article so okay uh thank you very much everybody appreciate it and we'll see you guys next time good night good night