The Team House - Sniper and Call of Duty Actor | Chad Collins | Ep. 192

Episode Date: February 16, 2023

A self-proclaimed "accidental" actor, Collins made his way west to Hollywood in pursuit of a public relations career after majoring in Journalism at Ithaca College. He eventually discovered acting while continuing to work as a publicist in the entertainment industry, ultimately transitioning into his new career: playing pretend for a living. Collins grew up in upstate New York near the state capital of Albany. An avid gamer, Collins enjoys playing his CALL OF DUTY: MODERN WARFARE game with fans around the world via Twitch, as well as playing Dungeons & Dragons. He enjoys reading comic books and fantasy novels, staying active with basketball and other sports while maintaining a fit and healthy lifestyle. Collins is best known for his franchise-starring role in the internationally renowned ongoing Sony Pictures SNIPER film series. Collins first appeared as 'Brandon Beckett' in SNIPER: RELOADED, playing the son of Tom Berenger's original legendary Marine sniper. He reprised his role in SNIPER: LEGACY, SNIPER: GHOST SHOOTER, SNIPER: ULTIMATE KILL, SNIPER: ASSASSIN'S END, and most recently SNIPER: ROGUE MISSION, now available on Netflix USA where it enjoyed a 9-day run in the Top 10 Most Watched Movies list in December 2022. Collins has shared the screen with both original SNIPER stars Billy Zane and Berenger, as well as Dennis Haysbert in the six films he has starred in, which continue to consistently rank in the "Top 10 Most-Watched" films on Netflix in the US and around the world. Filming on SNIPER 10 was recently completed, with an anticipated Summer 2023 release. To help support the show and for all bonus content including: -AD FREE AUDIO -AD FREE VIDEO -Access to ALL bonus segments with our guests Subscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Team House merch: ⬇️ https://teespring.com/stores/my-store-10474963 Social Media: ⬇️ The Team House Instagram: https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_link The Team House Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePod Jack’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_link Jack’s Twitter:  https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21 Dave’s Twitter:  https://twitter.com/dave_parke?s=21 Team House Discord: ⬇️ https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6 SubReddit: ⬇️ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheTeamHouse/ Jack Murphy's memoir "Murphy's Law" can be found here:⬇️  https://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Law-Journey-Investigative-Journalist/dp/1501191241 The Team Room Reading Room (Amazon Affiliate links):⬇️  https://jackmurphywrites.com/the-team-room-reading-room/ Intro music by https://www.youtube.com/user/RemixSample Want to sponsor the show? Email: ⬇️ [e-mail] #160thsoar #specialoperations #nightstalkersBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

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why don't you just send us an email and we'll talk about it. Special Operations, Covert Ops, espionage, The Team House, with your hosts, Jack Murphy, and David Park. Hey, everyone. Welcome to episode 192 of the Team House. I'm Jack Murphy here with David Park. Deep behind the screen here producing. And our guest on the show is Chad Michael Collins,

an actor best known for the Call of Duty franchise in the sniper series of films. Really excited to have you on the show. Chad, thank you for joining us tonight. Much respect, gentlemen. I'm happy to be here. From one pretend soldier to the real deal, always a pleasure to speak to.

men of your ilk. Well, yeah, thank you. Thanks for doing it. Like I was saying earlier, I think there's a lot of crossover between our audience and people who play call of duty for sure. And be prepared because Jack and I are both former snipers,

so we're going to test your knowledge as the show goes on. Already lost. Here it comes. Yeah. So, Chad, if you could start off just telling us a little bit about your upbringing. I read that you grew up in upstate New York and kind of like what your pathway was that took you towards acting?

I had a really, really roundabout way into acting. I grew up in upstate New York outside of Albany, a little town about 40 miles outside of the state's capital in central New York there, you know, 2,500 people max. So it was wonderful, you know, it was a small school, small town, you know, baseball, basketball, football, the All-American diet of sports. and, you know, just being outdoors, you know, sun comes up, you're outdoors, sun goes down, it's dinner time, get inside, kind of thing. So hunting, fishing, boy scouts, all that sort of stuff, all the way through, which was great,

you know, and I was the first kid in my immediate family to go to college and figure that whole mess out. And I ended up going to Ithaca College and upstate New York as well, below Syracuse, close to Rochester. And I found my way, journalism degree, found my way out to Los Angeles doing some internships out there and fell in with a Hollywood publicist. And after I did the old cap and gown walk, I landed there as an assistant. And three, four years into my journey in L.A., I was exposed to so much in the entertainment industry. You know, I started taking some acting classes and, you know, it was very, very casual about it for a while. and it wasn't until they decided to do the sniper franchise to bring that back around and reboot it.

I was lucky enough to be able to play the lead role in that. And it did well enough that they made a bunch more. And that kind of set me off in a dedicated fashion towards the acting career and out of the existential hell of an office. So, I mean, that doesn't just happen, right? I mean, you audition, where did you have your, or did it just happen? Did somebody go, hey, we're going to reboot the sniper franchise,

and you look like you'd be, you look like a sniper, a young Tom Berringer, as it were. Honestly, that's literally what I heard. But the missing piece of that puzzle is I was fortunate enough to book a lead role on a movie called Lake Placid 2 that I filmed over in Bulgaria with John Schneider. If there's any Dukes of Hazard here, fans like I was growing up.

He played my pops. and Clovis Leachman was in it, who was a comedic legend, and we went over to Bulgaria and shot this low-budget sequel to Lake Placid. And I was the lead role, and the producer of that, he's the one that wanted to lift the sniper franchise back off the ground, get it off the shelves, reboot it. He saw me as a young Tom Barringer, funny enough. And he wanted to do it kind of a reboot where it was focused on Vietnam flashbacks.

I'd play Young Berringer, doing that part of the movie, that idea got scrapped and they made me his son. So Brandon Beckett, son of the legendary Marine sniper Thomas Beckett. So the rest is history. Seven movies later, I've been a part of

and 10 total in the franchise. It's been very, very good to me. So it doesn't just happen, but sometimes beautiful circumstances line up and if you play the long game, good things can come from it. That's fantastic. Now, were you a fan of the,

of the sniper film, like, growing up, you know? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, TBS and TNT, when we finally got cable, which wasn't until I was in high school, you know, they're always playing movies like Roadhouse. They played the original sniper. I remember watching all these movies as a kid. And I'll never forget that opening scene from Sniper where it's just this shot on foliage.

And all of a sudden, you know, the helo is coming down. and it's ruffling all the fauna and Barringer just kind of climbs up out of nowhere in a gilly suit. It just such a deep impact because I was also obsessed with G.I. Joe's. I had a lot of family in the military and police departments and stuff like that too all throughout my family. So much respect and much appreciation for growing up and just, you know, fascinated with soldiers and stuff like that. Yeah. I mean, I will say that Jack and I are both also. big fans of the franchise of the first movie.

I mean, it was, you know, I was a little bit older than Jack, probably, when we first saw it, but it was still, it was like a formative movie for us. I was probably like 11 or 12 renting it on VHS tape, and I wanted to ask you about the original film because I remember watching it as a kid and just being overwhelmed by how cool Tom Barringer was in that movie, crawling around a gilly suit with all this, like, fieldcraft and everything. and it was like, that's what I want to do. I want to be that guy.

Yeah, I love that movie, obviously, platoon. You know, when I got out to L.A., you know, what I was really just watching over and over and over again was Banned of Brothers. And saving Private Ryan is a movie that I love. But Banner Brothers, I was watching it over and over and over again. And that's when people started playing the seat about, hey, you ever take an acting class before?

And I'm like, you know what, if I can run around being a fake G.I. Joe at any point in my life, like, this might be something really fun to do as a hobby. Because I just, I love it so much. So, yeah, all those movies left an indelible pressure upon me. And I've always been obsessed with that life and that lifestyle. And here we are, you know, doing it the pretend way still. I mean, it's great, though. It's entertaining.

Like, you know, you don't want a bunch of, you don't want to see like the real thing. It just sucks ass. Like, nobody would watch that show. Like laying in the prone and a belly hide for like 16 hours. With the sun beating down on you. Yeah, not a great movie. Now, for, when you got that role, was there, obviously you have the script and, you know, I'm sure the script was looked over by like, you know, technical advisors and things like that.

But did you do your own research? Like, how did you get into that? role in particular? Absolutely. You know, I started watching documentaries. I remember reading the books about Carlos Hathcock, you know, who I think Beringer's original character was sort of modeled after, that elite sniper, I believe it, was the Vietnam era.

So I was doing all that sort of stuff. You know, there's some wonderful documentaries that, you know, took you all the way through sniper school and everything else. And, you know, it just blew my mind. because, you know, I don't know much about the elite branches of the military, but, you know, snipers are such thinking men's soldiers, you know? And it's been a great fit because, you know, there's your, you know, grunt types, and then there's, you know, the soldiers who have more going on behind the eyes.

And I feel like that's something that was a part of what I brought, you know, in terms of the essence of myself as an actor. So it couldn't have been a better, fit and a more fascinating, you know, character to play or to learn about and prepare for. So, you know, luckily, I don't have to hit broadside of a barn with anything. So that saved me that embarrassment. But to say, it's just fascinating to learn, you know, and you two can probably correct me if I'm wrong, but I was, I remember reading about the washout rate for sniper school being

so high amongst the highest of all the military branches and the elite forces. Yeah, it's it's it's it's a challenging course and it's not just the shooting aspect Because you can train anybody really to to to shoot to you know like a one-mill standard But it's like you say is a thinking man's game and you know it's getting in and then getting out after you make that shot like you want to make the shot But then you'd also like to lead the objective alive Yes and you know and I I I will say this because I know actors have said it before and have gotten, you know, kind of beat down for it. But acting is a very difficult job. And I imagine that acting as a sniper, you may not know what

it's like to be in a hide for 16 hours. But when you have to do take after take and you are in a gilly suit, which I, you know, and things like that, like I've done a little bit of acting. And I know how it's like repetitive over and over until they get the right things or they want to get different angles or whatever it's it's not as it's not as easy as you guys make it look is it right uh you know it's really you know what do they say embrace the suck and you know i i embrace the suck of an office for 15 years so i didn't care if they were going to try to kill me on a bulgarian mountain top with a 35 pound 50 Cal, I didn't care. I was like, this is amazing.

You know, but you never lose the perspective of what it takes for someone to do this in real life. And that keeps you very humble. And for that reason, I, you know, ego very much in check and wanting to be able to pick the brains of technical advisors. And anyone who has that experience and know-how is very crucial. You know, not all actors do that. but I just thought that, you know, representing servicemen and women, you know, is a kind of a duty and a responsibility in your own right. And so, you know, there's certain things you have to give up when you're filming because shots don't look great if you try to be 100% technically accurate.

And I'm like, sometimes we know we're getting a shot and because of the framing, we're going to take some grief. But that's Hollywood filmmaking for you. Right. Right. It's like you, said, you know, it's not always glamorous what you guys do for real. And it doesn't always make for the most sexy or exciting series of shots. Right. So you kind of have to fudge thing for the cinematic effect, I suppose. Yeah, yeah. But it, but it is something that I've always taken seriously. I've been very grateful to be able to do. And, you know, hopefully I pull it off in my pretend half-ass way. So we think so. The, tell us about a sniper reloaded. This was the, the sort of like reboot of the franchise, your kind of break on the series.

I believe you filmed in South Africa with Billy Zane, who is also in the original film. Can you tell us what that experience was like? Yeah, up to that point, I was, I don't know, I was more of like a hobbyist, you know, I was writing, I was working in public relations, you know, I was exploring a little bit of like freelance writing and journalism on the side. So I wasn't really sure, you know, I was always able to treat acting like, you know, just like a part-time hobby that I happen to enjoy. And when I could invest in that side of, you know,

the career and the hustle and be brave enough to do an audition, it was a lot of fun. But I never thought it would be a real thing or a long-term thing. But when this movie came around and, you know, I arrived in, we filmed outside of Joburg, Johannesburg and South Africa, which is amazing. Just completely majestic. So much wildlife.

We were shooting on nature preserves, all sorts of exotic creatures running. around at all times. And of course, I got to be Billy Zane who, you know, who hasn't grown up with Billy Zane's movies. And I don't know anyone who's not a fan of Billy Zane. So that was really super special for me. And I remember after that experience, I was like, this is it, you know, and I got to go all in and this. This is the biggest adventure of my life. This is the most fun I've ever had. And if I don't see this, 110%, it'll be a lifelong regret. So that's the one that kicked off not only our sniper franchise, which is still going strong,

but really helped me decide to turn the corner into pursuing a full-time acting career. That's fantastic. Out of curiosity, because you mentioned that, you know, there are some shots that you need that, you know, a tactical person is going to look at and go, well, that's not how they do it, but for the shot you need it. It's the same like when they do shows with divers, it's always a faceplate like this big

so you can see the actor's face because nobody wants to see just the actor's eyes or whatever, right? Right. So how does that work? And I'm sure it's different on different movies, but how does that work between like a director and the writer and the technical advisors

who are going, this isn't how it's done or you should do it this way? Is there a given take or is it pretty much the director and the DP, like, they, you know, they have their vision and that's how it's going to happen. Yeah. And, you know, you see that happen a lot because obviously someone who's lived it and breathed it, a technical advisor, that's their job is to tell you what's accurate, what's not. But at the same time, you've got producers in a DP and you've got lighting and, you know, you've got all sorts of artificial factors, you know, to make the most entertaining movie you can. So sometimes there is that friction. And hopefully there can be.

be a compromise where everyone wins, but not always. Yeah. You know, just, you know, for instance, sometimes with framing, you know, something's called a hero shot. They want the hero to seem bigger than life, you know, Superman. So the camera's going to be coming up under you. Well, if you've got your head buried against the side piece from the side to catch the shell ejection, your face is covered.

So it doesn't make a great shot. So you kind of have to cheat it. Yeah. It's not accurate at all. and people let you know it's not. Right. It's just that thing that the director just has to be like, you know, we just have to eat it on this one.

Right. I get the shot, so. That's funny. Do you ever get, not hate mail, but do you ever get like people who are like, I love your movie, but this scene, like, it's not accurate. You should have da da da da da da. Honestly, it's rare than you think.

And I, you know, I'm grateful for that because it means on whatever low budget we have we're getting something right. And, you know, if it passes the sniff test with people who really live it, that's what you want. You know, you want them to enjoy it and you want it to be passable to the point where they're not rolling their eyes or screaming epithets at their screen at you. So it's very rare that those come. They have come once in a while, but for the most part, I find that the people in the military community are incredibly supportive and very entertained by them and enjoy them. so I'm really, really grateful for that because first and foremost, you know, you want to make them

happy, you know, as well as an audience worldwide. So, you know, we certainly do our best. So you did a pretty good job on Sniper Reloaded and they had you back for Sniper Legacy where you get teamed up with, it's the return of Tom Barringer to the series. So father and son in the film. What was that experience like for you coming back to it? Well, that was fantastic just because, you know, working with Billy was amazing. And he came back and did a few more with us. But, you know, Tom's legend in his own right. And I grew up on all his movies, you know, including the original sniper movie, as we discussed.

But, you know, things like platoon and Major League and Big Chill and all sorts of stuff, you know. And so, you know, it's for an actor and I was really young and somewhat an experience at that time, to be able to work with somebody who's, you know, Oscar nominee. He was just coming off winning Emmys for Hatfields and McCoys with Kevin Costner. So to be able to work with an actor of that pedigree and that caliber and being humble enough to just be a sponge was really a fantastic experience for me. And Tom's a great guy and really, you know, all due respect. You know, it was his franchise. You know, he's the guy.

So even though they're kind of passing the torch to you, you know, really it's, you know, wanting to collaborate and follow his lead on a lot of stuff. and it was a really great experience to kind of meet one of your acting heroes in that way. And we got to do a bunch together, so I'm grateful for. So you had already done Lake Placett II and then you did the first,

you know, the sniper reload, did, was it like Lake Placet II? Was it the first sniper movie, the second? Like, when did you say, this is what I do? It was definitely after sniper reloaded in South Africa.

like, you know, I'm flying halfway around the world. I mean, it was surreal. You know, it was my first class flight. I'm like, well, I don't even know what it is. It was like Virgin, right? So I'm in LAX in the Virgin lounge because you're allowed to go in some sort of fancy waiting, you know, palace. And so I'm in there and I'm like, you know, with my tiny little Nokia garbage phone,

it's like 2010. And I'm like calling my mom before I get on the plane, you know, to go to, you know, London Heathrow and then all the way down to South Africa, massive travel day. And I hear just a really, like, modest voice say, excuse me, you know, is anyone sitting here? And, you know, meaning the seat across from me at this little table, I was all the way

at the far end of this lounge. And I look up and slash from Guns and Roses. I'm like, what is my life right now? And not like, one of my guitar heroes. So it just, it was unbelievable experience from start to finish. And that was definitely the light bulb film for me where I just like, it was just dream come true, you know, to have, you know, idolizing movies like this on the screen and being, like, such fans of them. And it just didn't sink

until I was done. But I was, I just, I just did this. I'm a part of this, this world now. And so I really just went all in. And I was, you know, putting my 50, 60 hours in a week at the office and just doing everything I could to, to keep building the acting career until it had its own legs, its own bipod legs, as you could say. Yeah. And that, you know, so about seven, eight years ago, I was able to really turn the corner full time into acting and lucky enough to keep doing it.

That's fantastic. I got lots more sniper questions, but I got to give a quick shout out to the sponsor for this show. You'll like this one. Battling Blades. This company makes all sorts of, I don't even want to call them props for films. They're replicas.

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It's Battlingblades.com and the promo code is Teamhouse. You'll get 20% off your order. And oh, by the way, please like and subscribe to this channel. And check out our Patreon, which is right down below if you want to get this show ad free. So anyway, back to you, Chad. Hold on. We're not moving on until I comment on that sword. That was giving me serious.

serious snake eyes feels. Yeah. That's all it is. It's a katana. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. That's a beautiful,

beautiful piece of work. You don't have to, before the show, we were geeking out about dice and Dungeons and Dragons. No, they have great kludgables. Jack has pulled this on on occasions,

and I may or may not have gotten a closed shave, so we try to keep it. Should we play with it when we're sitting around drinking? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's how you have a negligent discharge. So a sniper reloaded sniper legacy. At what point does Call of Duty come up on your radar? Yeah. So that was like, so we released Call of Duty at the tail end of 2019. And we had been working on that for on and off for about a year and a half. filming those things intermittently for about a year and a half solid.

So I guess that puts us at what, 2017 and 2018 when I got rolling on that. But, you know, video games are, you know, on major lockdown for actors. They don't tell you what the game is. You don't know any of the people associated with it. They give you as very few details as possible. You know, once that process got going, I was able to kind of put some contact clues together. And just be like, I think this is what this is. But me and the principal cast, we didn't get,

we didn't have the curtain pull back until we were on day one of shooting. Wow. Where we all got to meet each other for the first time and learn that it was a soft reboot of modern warfare, which I love those games. I remember playing that trilogy back in the day. So we were all just kids in a candy store, you know, me in particular because I've been a gamer my whole life. So it was really incredible to find.

find out that's what it was. Because, you know, as an audition I did with a director and the writer and whatever else, and then you don't hear anything for two months. And then all of a sudden, it's like, he's hired. I'm like, oh, great. What am I hired for? Uh, it's like working at Area 51 or something. Like, what the, where am I going? What am I doing? Right. Is that because they don't want you, like, pulling a Tom Holland and like spoiling everything before it gets released? I think that's the, I mean, I know, if you, you guys, understand the video game space. If you play Call of Duty at all, it's like everyone is hunting for leaks.

Everyone's got theories about what's coming up next and when and whatever else. So it's really nothing is safe and nothing is sacred if people get a little taste of a rumor. Yeah. So I think it's for our own good. I think it's for their good as well so that the internet doesn't go bonkers with any sort of slip like Tom Holland style. Correct me if I'm wrong. but for a call of duty, you're doing a motion capture acting? Yeah, when I did call duty, it was a full motion capture, performance capture.

So we had, you know, the full suits on and everything else. And we had, you know, a close-up camera, like a helmet rig. So it was full face capture as well. And, of course, they got the voice. So it was a full spectrum head to toe, you know, that character was me. And I was that character, except they added a really sweet mustache, which I'm super grateful for. So I'm challenged here, badly. But Alex is my character on Call of Duty.

And it was a pleasure for me because I thought they played it great because Modern Warfare, the original trilogy, is beloved. And it's amongst the favorites of all the Call of Duty players. And so I think that they found a sweet spot between paying homage to the old guard and introducing some new characters and storyline. So there was a bit of a hybrid and not just a hard reboot. And I really love that. And I got to originate this Alex character

who's basically the only American outside of our boss, which was really cool to play like a hero operator that was American and representative of our great military tradition here as well. So it was a real honor and a real pleasure. So it was a really fun adventure, great people. And yeah, the proof was in the pudding. We shattered a bunch of records, which were recently broken by Modern Warfare too.

people seem to really love it critically and commercially. So that's, that's what you want. How did you find the motion capture acting? Was that like pretty, that must have been like a new and different type of challenge for you? Yeah, I had dinked and dunked on a couple of games before, but none as intensive and that rigorous as doing all those shoot dates in there. Yeah, I mean, you're wearing spandex covered in Velcro. So, you know, that creates logistical challenges for bathroom breaks and everything else. But, you know, it was, it was interesting because, you know, you got these helmet cams, you know, these face helmet rigs where a super close-up camera is like extended a foot, foot and a half out from your face. So you have to be aware of that as well when

you're interacting with other actors, not to tangle up your thing. You know, I guess it might be like, you know, an unfortunate kid who has to have headgear for braces and stuff, but it was like that times a thousand. So it all took a lot of adjustments. And the video game space is very different because they're always, they're always filming you in a big wide master shot. But then you also have the extreme close-up because of the helmet rig camera. So my co-star, Barry Sloan, who came from the theater world, he plays Captain Price, phenomenal actor who did such a great job with that character. He kind of likened it to, you know, it's film meets theater in a way that it's like two worlds and two shooting styles converged into one, where movement becomes very important,

but also sort of the subtle micro expressions, because you got a camera right up in that mug. Yes, like you can't get, it sounds like maybe you can't get away with anything either, because everything is being recorded all the time. Well, these, you know, motion capture, performance capture studios and the wonderful people at Infinity War, the technology is unbelievable, but we had, you know, 360, like just rigs everywhere. There was like, I think they said 75 to 95 cameras. So they're capturing you from every single possible angle at all time. So from action to cut, there can't be a flood line and there can't be, you know, you accidentally putting your hand through an imaginary chopper, you know, or anything

like that. So the rehearsal days become really key because it does feel like kind of like a stage play production and that everything has to be, you know, technically perfect all the way through. because there is no editing that, not like a film, you know. And, you know, doing the sniper movies, if you're ejecting a blank in a jams, it's like, it's no problem, keep the cameras rolling, let's just do another one, we'll edit around it. That doesn't happen in the video game space. So it's a very different kind of acting in preparation. Now, in between like the snipers, like leading up to it and then in between them,

like you've done quite a bit of TV too, right? Do you? Yeah. And, you know, look, I, I, I, I, I, I'm reminded of the old Peter Falk, the old actor who played Colombo, and he talked about typecasting and how, you know, so many actors hate getting pigeonholed into playing this type of character and over and over. He says, it's the best thing in the world, you'll always work.

So I've been very lucky in television to be able to, you know, work on shows like Blue Bloods, you know, playing a former Marine with PTSD and, you know, NCIS, NCIS, New Orleans, you know. So the, McGiver, where I played a fighter pilot, you know, It's really been a lot of fun for me to just keep playing those pretend soldiers, agents, you know, stuff like this, cops, you know, and all these sorts of shows. It's really been a fun part of my brand and how people see me. And I've been very fortunate to play those roles quite a bit.

And that's a lot of my TV work as well. And it is fun to step outside the box, but I'm always excited and I never get tired of the opportunity to play a pretend soldier. And so you got to do that again. sniper ghost shooter with Billy Zane and then sniper ultimate kill down in Columbia filmed with Billy Zane and Tom Barringer together. At this point, you keep getting called back for these films and they keep getting made. You must be really realizing. It's your series. Yeah, this is the thing. Yeah, you know, I really, in a way, I guess yes. But the way I come up through

it and the way I, you know, experience those movies myself, it's hard to, you know, kind of own that for myself. You know, I'm still just extremely grateful because, you know, I lived a different life and acting was never anything that I had set my hopes and dreams around. I didn't go to Juilliard. I didn't go to NYU. I didn't, you know, do any of this sort of stuff.

So every day feels like a blessing, you know, I'm very humble and very grateful for the journey. So to own that is, is, you know, a little bit tough for me to do because so many greats came before me and established this franchise far before we came along. But we're doing something right. You know, we have Sniper 10 coming out this summer. You know, we just, our last movie, Sniper Rogue Mission, we released it in the U.S. in August. We had a great run on a DVD, Blu-ray video on demand release.

And then Netflix premiered it for us in December after most people in America probably already saw it. And we stayed in the top 10 list in Netflix, most watch movies for like nine days. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about that, Chad, because some of the sniper films, at least I found, like, they're kind of difficult to find or they were. Like, you had to kind of go out looking for them, right?

You had to know they're out there and go look for them. You could find them on Amazon. But to see them like pop on Netflix was really interesting. And I imagine, correct me if I'm wrong, getting onto the top 10 on Amazon, is that like getting onto the top 10 of, or I'm sorry, getting onto the top 10 of Netflix? Is that similar to like if you're an author getting onto the top 10 on Amazon? Like, that's a pretty big deal, right? to me it blows my mind. And this has been happening for years.

Like I, and the fans around the world are amazing. And all credit to them. They're the ones loving this, watching it, circulating it. And I have so much love for them all around the world. But they also keep me in the know. I don't know what's going on. I don't know when the sniper movies are releasing around the world in different territories ever. But they seem to track this, love this, always let me know when it's hitting number one on their countries.

And, you know, just the other day, we, I, you know, they released sniper, go shooter, which was, I think, 2016 or 15 or something like that. It debuted in, like, all these new territories all around the world and, like, went to number one. And a movie that was eight or nine years old is the fourth most watched movie on Netflix in the world.

That's amazing. It's amazing. Yeah. It's been such a blessing, and the fans around the world are great, and they love these movies, and I hope we keep making them forever. I mean, I'll say,

from our perspective, it's a testament to the franchise and a testament to you as an actor that this franchise is now 10-deep. Like how many movie franchises can go 10-deep and still maintain its fan base like that? I mean... Yeah. And we, you know, yeah.

Our budget is what Vin Diesel and the Fast and Furious people get like, you know, for a day's worth of catering. Yeah. So it's... It's nice to be having the longevity that is usually reserved for the bigger budget major studio franchises and stuff like that. And, you know, that's what blows my mind about Netflix is, you know, we're competing and taking down Netflix original movies that have never been seen before, where they have invested tens and tens and tens of millions of dollars into their films. So it really is, we're always blown away, you know, and so, but, you know, every time we go and try to make something a little bit better, a little bit uniqued.

And, you know, like I said, we must be doing something right. And, you know, it's fans around the world, and I don't know, obviously, you two have probably really world traveled from of your experiences and your background. But I just know that there's a fascination and there's a deep respect maybe all around the world for the American military. You know, it's such a story, legendary tradition over here. That is a response and feedback I get, you know, from international fans all over the place. You know, it's just like that all-American soldier and what that represents. And I just think that the fans around the world really love to hear those stories and really love to watch those movies. And hopefully we can we can bring, you know, all the way up to sniper 78, whenever great-grandfather.

When you're passing it on to your to your son, right? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Everything else. Yeah. No, I thought that's interesting you bring that up because, yeah, you're, you guys haven't been afraid. to do something a little bit different with each film, which keeps it fresh, you know,

and you're not making the same movie over and over again. After Ultimate Kill, there's Assassin's End. And this is sort of, I wanted to ask you about sort of like where the franchise is going. And Assassin's End introduces Lady Death, played by Sayaka Akimoto, and Ryan Robbins playing zero. And I start getting the feeling around here that you're starting to build up your superhero team, right? You're starting to put the team together? Yeah, you know, that movie was, that introduced those two characters.

Obviously, Lady Death becomes an adversary, but if you watch into sniper rogue mission, she becomes an ally and, you know, doesn't stop kicking my butt ever. So it's nice to have her on your side, as they say, when you can't beat them, make them join you. Right, right. So, but yeah, that was kind of, and I think it was really wonderful because, you know, credit to our producer at Sony, Daniel, and Oliver Thompson, who kind of came in with the trilogy vision within the franchise. And that kicked off with Sniper Assassins End, which he wrote and produced, and then he directed the last two, the one, Rogue Mission and the one coming out this summer, Sniper 10, where he really wanted to put a team together, you know, because if you watch the old

sniper movies, you know, Tom might come back, Billy might come back, but there's a cast of supporting characters, teammates, spotters, et cetera, et cetera. But, you know, we don't often see them come back, you know, unless it's Dennis Haysburg. Dennis Haysburg has come back, and we've formed this new team called Grit, which is an acronym Global Response and Intelligence Team. And that was set up after the last movie. And so it's really fun.

And it's very different to have that team dynamic, where the gang keeps getting back together. And you get to explore those comedic moments. You get to explore the way that they fight together, way they balance each other out in their styles. So that's really, really been fantastic. And I think the response has been really good for that as well. As somebody who started out as a writer, and I know it was, you know, journalism and not fiction writing, but do you get an opportunity to exercise those muscles on these shows? Have you ever kind of gone through your own creative

process with them and had a chance to sit down and do that? You know, they do it on their own mostly. And I, you know, I come from the school of acting where, uh, unless it's really going to add value or unless it's like a redundancy they didn't catch or, you know, if there's something I just feel really strongly about. I mostly just try to make the writer's words work always because they put a lot more blood, sweat and tears into those words, usually, you hope at least, than I ever could. Right. So, you know, I do follow my instincts and my intuition. You know, we're really lucky in A lot of people we work with, especially in these sniper films, are incredibly collaborative. So if there is an opportunity to make something better, but it's got to be something better.

And I've seen a lot of actors fall under the trap where no matter what, they just want to make their characters cool. Right. And I'm like, well, that doesn't make necessarily for a better scene or a better story or a better product. And so you kind of have to have that humility of, you know, knowing that you got character arcs and layers and whatever else. It's not about your character always shining and being cool and changing the way. words to reflect that. So I try my hardest to honor the words on the page, especially when you start to get into technical stuff like military things and whatnot. So it is rare. I know the door is open. I try not to do that. There's certainly been instances where I, where I have. But that's just kind of my

rule of thumb in terms of that. And I've seen way too many actors go way too far with rolling pages right out the window. Yeah, it's not in the I know you guys can say this But I'm adopted So this isn't how my character is adopted So this isn't how they would act Whatever, right?

They create an elaborate backstory And then want everything to What about your own sort of screenwriting? Have you ever like thought about that? You know, you're obviously a creative person You know, you play D&D You know you have and you do have a background of writing Do you have you ever thought about pursuing

Screenwriting on your own? Yeah, producing is something that, you know, I'd want to step into more. It's just, you know, filmmaking is a fascinating process. I just feel like every part of the productions that I've been a part of is it's just a miracle coming together, moving parts and how long it takes. And all the ways things could go wrong and everyone coming together to make sure that it gets past the finish line. So it's something I'm fascinated with.

I'm always trying to learn more. I've got a lot of projects in developing. I've given my hand at writing a little bit, you know, rewrites and stuff like that. But I think it's fun. I think it's a door that'll be open for me later. You know, my whole thing is I'd like to have a broader perspective and broader education on it all. And then hopefully kind of find my niche in there, you know, and whether that on the road that's directing or whether that's writing. But, you know, one thing at a time to really appreciate more process from that point of view.

So, you know, I've tried my hand on it. I like to think I've made some things better. But, you know, those things aren't made. So we don't have the top of feedback. Right. And what about like your own technical training? Is that something that you sort of pursued once you realized that you were in these films? I mean, have you had a chance to shoot much?

Is it something that you're interested or not interested in? I love it, you know. And I have always tried to add extra training where I can in there. you know, these, the budgets are a little bit lower. And of course, there's like liability issues and whatnot. So, you know, we, we don't really get to go to a range. You know, we don't, we don't get a little boot camp. We don't get a week of basic, you know, to sniper movies.

You know, we have great technical advisors. We always have. So I've always taken it upon myself to try and, you know, educate myself, add to my training and my experience and that sort of stuff. You know, you don't always necessarily have to because of what they ask you to do in these films. but for my own edification, you know, and then I grew up, but I'm very comfortable around firearms.

It's always been something I was taught to respect and have much appreciation for and use safely. You know, there's still actors on set who just wave things around. And you're like, oh, boy, you know, you just hate to see it, you know, because that's one rule. And, but, you know, it's gotten safer in the fact that VFX have come so far that, you know, back in the day, even shooting blanks, you know, quarter loads, half loads was the norm, especially if you're going over to Bulgaria where there are no restrictions on anything.

But now it's really about a lot of painting it in with VFX and post-production as a much safer way to go about doing that. So, you know, it adds an extra layer of what you're responsible for as an actor in terms of recoil and kick. Yeah, absolutely. Not closing your eyes when you shoot. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I do. I do try to, you know, get out and shoot when I can. I do try to add to some training when I can.

And not as much as I like and probably not as much as I should be doing. But, you know, in Los Angeles, it's not as easy. It used to be going in my backyard and shooting crab apples out of the creek. Right, right. So you did a pretty good job, you know, laying out, you know, how rogue mission ends. but I want to see what details I can pry out of you about sniper 10. We've arrived at that point of the interview. What can you tell us?

I'll be honest. You know, we, for the first time ever, Sony was like, tell people, we're doing another one. And I was like, oh, my God, really? Because I usually had to keep it quiet for, you know, eight, nine months until, you know, through shooting until the release. So it's no secret that we, you know, we shot last fall. You know, the grit team is back in action. Dennis Hayesbert and Lady Death and Agent Zero and of course, Brandon.

You know, we were overseas in Malta filming that one, which is really, really cool. It's a very different type of movie with very different types of locations. I really love this experience. That's cool. And I think people are going to love it even more than Rogue Mission. It's really fun. And, you know, I think we made something special. I can't say too many of the details outside of that other than that probably this summer is when we will see a drop.

Okay. I love Malta as a setting. That's super cool and different. Yeah, what a fantastic little place. Such history. It's just completely unique through and through. So a really, really great experience being there for five weeks, filming that, taking in that culture, but also, you know, I mean, like Gladiator was shot there, Game of Thrones, like, you name it. So to be on those same lots and using those set pieces that they were for things was really, you know, made my nerd heart sing. let oh go ahead jack oh well well no other other thing i was going to ask you about is the future of call of duty which i know you're like sworn to secrecy and they will like waterboard you if you divulge any secrets but um is there anything you can tell us about you know sort of your future maybe with with the franchise um yeah you know it was a big surprise to me as it always

is uh and this is why the fans are the best because they they are the first to know and they always let me know, which is I'm very grateful for. But in mid-December, you know, my, my phone started blowing up one day. And I'm like, what is, what is even going on? I started getting tagged in all this stuff and whatever. Apparently in this new game mode called Raid, which is like a three-person team you put together to solve puzzles and unlock the next piece of the storyline. But like Captain Price, Fara, and Gaz, who I started with in Modern Warfare, they are on a mission because Alex is apparently lost somewhere in some underground tunnels and stuff like that. So Raid Season 1 kind of put Alex's mug back on the radar in an Intel briefing where is he?

Is he alive? Is he dead? You know, you're going to have to navigate this as a player to go and see what happened to Alex and what the hell is even going on. So that was a really nice surprise, a teaser. and so that's going to be season by season. You know, in season two of the raid, we might unlock another piece of the puzzle to see, you know, where in the world is Alex San Diego.

So you're saying there's a chance. There's a chance we might see you. Samsonite. I'm saying there's a chance. And you said that you just, you finished recently one year off, another movie, like a totally different genre now, right? Oh, man.

Wasn't sniping anything there. Yeah, I, Lionsgate just released this movie we filmed in the Caribbean, you know, coming off of 2020. It was a pretty, pretty lean, dark, quiet year for about every actor I know around the world. But 2021, we got back in business. And I was fortunate to go to the Caribbean, the island of Nevis, a beautiful island connected to St. Kitts. And we filmed a, we filmed a rom-com, which is really fun. I don't always get a chance to do those things. And so I had long hair, you know,

just totally looking like a poor man's Patrick Swayze running around the beach. And I got to play, you know, kind of some hunky dude who basically just, you know, I was living the island life down there. It was just absolutely beautiful. And just in like, you know, surf trunks and no shirt because I'm in paradise.

And so that was actually what was required for the character, which was fantastic. So it was really my days of, my shooting days were not much different, actually. So, but it was fun. It was a really light-hearted romantic comedy. Just got released by Lionsgate, I think, on all VOD platforms.

They might do like a Blu-ray release or something like that later on. But I play a character called Harry, who's not just beach hunk. There's more than meets the eye. He's the thinking man's beach hung. Nice. Just like snipers of the thinking man's soldier.

So it was a real pleasure and a lot of fun and a total departure for me. where I didn't have to take out one hostile, spoiler alert. It's, uh, we'll look forward to it. I actually really enjoy rom-coms. Um, I'm a big rom-com fan. But you, uh, you mentioned like geeking out. Um, let's, let's talk a little bit about what we see in the background going on,

because we know you're a big D&D fan. We see the Funko Pop. Like, um, I don't know what the series down in the right. It's probably your left corner of your bookshelf is there. But, like, when did you get into Dungeons, role-playing, stuff like that? I'll tell you what. You know, I don't know if we're allowed to see the P-word, but... You can say it.

Global Panny, when it happened, it was wonderful for my D&D habit. I'll be honest. I had a whole year where I logged so many hundreds of hours of D&D. It was incredible. It was a silver lining and an otherwise very precarious year, 2020. Yeah. Yeah. I've always been in there.

I grew up on comics. We were talking before. We went live. You know, that, you know, the Marvel universe, image. I was in, you know, eighth grade when image, when all the best artists and writers from the comic world went and started their own company and did spawn. And, you know, it's just all over it. I played Magic the Gathering. I, you know, I grew up on Nintendo, Super Nintendo, you know, Zelda, Final Fantasy.

And I, you know, and I got hooked on like Lord of the Rings. and the Hobbit. And so I was, you know, it was just weird. I lived a really weird existence because I, you know, I'd go to like football practice and then I'd go meet my dork friends at the library and play Magic the Gathering. So it was like, I was just always had a foot in both worlds. And I'm still that way to this day. But yeah, it's hard to tame my collection of that. That's not going back in the closet. No, it's, I mean, look, I got the war zone posters behind me, you know, represent. And you know i've got a conan and red sonia back there i've got all sorts of d and d stuff i got my comic comic hardcover collections down there somewhere too and you know and shout out to battleblades

you know but one of my favorite movie is uh braveheart and so i've got a uh a wonderful guy named john was kind enough to send me a little replica like pen opener you know william wallace claymore so i really tried not to buy the full length things because i'd have it what looks like an armory behind me, but I don't know that I can hold out much longer, especially if they're snake eyes swords. Yeah. Dude, I, uh, same thing for me, man, when, when, when it hit, I played so many hours and hours on, uh, fantasy grounds with my friends. It was awesome. Awesome, man, it was really, I started running games. I was playing in like three, four games a week. I was just giving myself the full experience that I missed out in childhood because, you know,

when you're young, you know, I grew up in a town, I, I was playing in a town, I was playing. 2,500 people. I lived eight miles outside of town. I'm having, like, epic scale G.I. Joe battles by myself in the creek. Like, there's no one to play D&D with. Right. What is the internet? We don't even have cable.

So, you know, I'm making up for lost time. What are your favorite, uh, what are your favorite, like characters to play? Like, you're, I'm a, I'm a night nerd dude. I love. You know, the old school night stuff, chivalry. You know, I always play a paladin usually is the best of both worlds. Like an Oachalidon, a vengeance paladin. Protector.

Yeah, you know, it's got a little bit of magic and, you know, righteous power, you know, as well. I always love the paladin character. I'd say, like, Ranger, Hunter is like my second favorite. And that extends to, like, D&D, Warcraft, you name it. It's always, you know, Aragorn from Lord of the Rings, one of my favorite archetypes. that sort of character. So those two always, they always get me. Yeah.

They always get me. I'm like the forever DM. So when I do have the chance to be a player finally, like it gets out of control. Like I played a teafling hex blade that's like evil as, evil as fuck. Going the other way. No paladins. Yeah. When I finally get the chance to play, like we're going dark.

It's going to be bad. Yeah. Yeah. all DMs and dungeon masters for your audience who are not to know they're they're the real heroes because without them and that thankless job no one can play dada yeah and it is a thankless job it really is you get you get like addicted to it though after a while because you're like as a player you know you're kind of waiting for your turn there's that wall yeah but when you're the DM like you're constantly engaged for like four hours like managing all this stuff yeah yeah

yeah yeah i enjoy running the games but it's the prep that kills me I'm in tension to details. I want to be ready. So I have to spend all these hours before the hours of playing. And I'm like, this kills me. Like, this is literally a full-time job. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

And isn't it always fun when you, like, craft this exquisite campaign and your characters, like, go, the players go off and left field? They're like, we don't want to play that campaign. We want to, like, go see where this boat takes us. You're like, yeah, you're the player, by the way, Dave. I don't know where this boat. I just want to point that out since we're here. Oh, that hour. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. It's always nice to see a dungeon master sweat. It's like shit. That's true. Yeah. Let's see you on the fly for four hours. Exactly. So, Chad, what other upcoming projects would you like to tell folks out there about? What are you working on? What's coming out next other than, you know, sniper 10? Yeah. So one year off, just being released, which is a really, really fun departure for the stuff I normally get to do. Sniper 10 would probably be out in the summer. I got a chance to do a really great period piece, highly stylized film last summer that I've had to keep kind of under wraps as they go through post-production. So I'm going to tease like a little bit of an announcement what that project was.

Probably on the 20th, just through social media and stuff, kind of give a first look of costumes and everything else too. And this director and these producers spared no expense. And it's a really inspiring tale. and I don't often get to do period pieces, and this is set in the 60s. So, yeah, you know, I'm lining up some Comic-Con convention appearances, which are, you know, for me, the best of all worlds. Yeah. I get to go there as a fan, and I get to go there to meet people who, you know,

love to play Call of Duty or love to check sniper movies or whatever. So it's really, those are always a blast to attend and appear at as well. So, and I'm signing on to a movie that, of course, I can't really talk about for March. So that's that's about all I can say and not say about the things I can't say anything about. All right. Good for you, man. I mean, but you're keeping busy. That's awesome.

Yeah. We'll see in October if you're coming at Comic Con, New York. I've never been. And my family all moved down to South Carolina in the last couple of years. So it's like harder and harder to get to New York State because I used to go at least once or twice a year. But New York Comic Con, I've never been. I heard it's a blast. I would love the opportunity to go out there.

But you know what? I have Passport, we'll travel to any Comic Con in the world because I just think they're the absolute best. Yeah, if you come through New York, let us know. We'd love to have you here and drink some scotch and bullshit about nerd stuff. We'll duel. We'll spar.

Yeah, for sure. Swords and or just roll dice and let our characters do it. There you go. Yeah, playing with the swords through scotches in. we'll do a one shot uh like a one shot on something

stewable yeah so listen don't threaten me with a good time I'll buy a plane ticket yeah any other anything we miss no did we miss any where can people find you

uh yeah I'm I'm all over the socials um Instagram and Twitter at Collins Chad M Facebook is just Chad Michael Collins and I'm trying to do what you're all doing. I'm trying to build up my YouTube channel as well.

You know, I really, there's nothing I love more than paying a forward. There's nothing I love more than sharing people and or saving them the incredible mistakes and expensive mistakes I've made and my journey as an actor. So I'm trying to put more content out there of gaming, you know, Call of Duty when I stream and stuff like that. Twitch.tv slash Chad Michael Collins. I do like to stream Call of Duty. I do try to play with a lot of fans and gamers around the world.

So I put some of those clips and highlights up there. I'm not a great player, but I am a clown, and it is a good time. But, you know, putting more stuff in terms of acting lifestyle and success tips and career stuff for actors. So YouTube is just Chad Collins at YouTube. Chad Collins at YouTube? Yeah, I mean, definitely everyone. While you're liking and subscribing to our channel, also please like and subscribe. to Chad's channel.

For the folks who are watching this on YouTube, we'll put a link down in the description. Oh, that's right. Hey, I have a question for Chad. So, Chad, like, since, like, the sniper stuff kind of got, like, a, you know, shot in the arm with, like, Netflix and being in the top 10 for so long, is Netflix, like, trying to, like, pour money into it

and, like, maybe start a TV series and, like, really push it? Are they making it rain? Yeah. Tell you what, you know, and I hate to use the cliches. I love to use the cliches. Whatever. I'm letting them fly.

It's above my point. pay grade as you know i'm i'm i'm always um you know we make it another one where am i going and and when uh so i don't know but i i got to think netflix is thrilled you know this was a new deal that they signed on to and you know in terms of the movies that cost a fortune probably to make and to acquire you know i think ours drawn down to scale is probably the best deal that they have on their slate right now yeah yeah yeah yeah viewed forming and you're right like in Considering how much money they put in it, I mean, Amazon was some of their, like, for, for. Arms race.

Yeah. But for the production costs to be low, you know, or lower than some grand epic fantasy that's just horrible and such. And, and, and a shame to the original. You can name names, Dave. You can name names. I feel like you're alluding to something quite specific. Sorry. But yeah, you know, to make a fun series, you know, or a fun franchise that people enjoy that doesn't require a ton of, you know, post-production or a ton of VR, not VR, but, you know, the graphics and things like that, I can't imagine how that is a bad deal for them in any way.

Yeah. You know, it's, it is interesting because it's natural to ask those questions, right? Like, you guys have done so, so well. Like, why don't they make it bigger, better? More, you know, booms, explosions, give you a bigger budget to play with, whatever else. But it's like, it's not how business people at studios think, they think, well, you were able to do it on this little bit.

Right. Could you do it a little bit less next time? Right, right. Well, it's funny because talking, you know, talking about the relationship to the military in a way, how there's crossover. Like in the military, at the end of every quarter, you have to go out and shoot all the excess ammunition.

you have. The quarterly forecast. Because if you don't shoot it all, then your budget gets slashed. So you spend like a day on the range until everybody's so miserable that you start throwing ammunition into the woodline, you know, into like the forest next to you. So yeah. So I'm sure they're the same thing. They're like, well, you guys are making a great product for this much money.

Why do you need more? Yeah. And you know, you can't blame them. You know, that's good business, I suppose. And somehow, some way, the powers that be have pulled it off, our producers and directors and everything else to you. But look, I'm just grateful to keep, you know, doing them as is for as long as we possibly can.

It's a great time with great people. And, you know, I'm really grateful to Sony and now Netflix for, you know, putting it out there in front of people. And, you know, people are putting their butts in the seats, so to speak. So it's just always really, really cool and very rewarding to see. Well, it's a fun series, and we really wish you the best and hope you guys keep going strong. wish you the best in everything that you're, you know, that you do outside of the franchise.

Yeah. It's fantastic. Chad, I'm super happy to see the series kind of like, you know, connect with a new audience and really blow up like that. It's really cool, man. And I'm glad that, you know, you guys are going to be able to keep making these films. I enjoy the hell out of them. Well, I appreciate it, gentlemen. That has very, very kind words.

And, you know, really, it means much more to me, you know, coming from, you know, real heroes such as yourselves, you know. And that's, that's a stamp of approval that you always. hope to get that you might not. So, you know, as long as they love, you know, the movies that we're doing, you know, and it's, it's, it's always nice to hear the feedback from people who have lived a life that they can still find a lot of enjoyment on it, knowing full well, it's not close to the real deal. Yeah, but they're good fun. Yeah. It's like snake eyes. There's nobody out there like snake eyes, but G.I. Joe is fun as hell. Right, right. Right. It's like, it's fun. You know, and that that's all that matters, I think, when people are watching a show,

is am I enjoying myself? Absolutely. Absolutely. And I do think that these the last bunch of films and the one coming out is, you know, we really wanted to, they want to infuse more fun and more popcorn into it, but take away none of the action. And so I think that people will really enjoy this next one

coming out this summer. We can't wait. Chad, thank you again so much for doing this, man. I hope maybe we'd have you back, you know, after the release of Sniper 15 and do another recap of the films. You know, wish you the best man. And our next episode is going to be on Friday. We're going to have Tim Weiner, a journalist that covers the intelligence community. He's going to be back on the show again, talking about some things that are, you know, contemporary. And his sequel to Legacy of Ashes that he's working on, his sort of seminal history of the CIA. So we will have him on Friday. And we'll see all you guys then. So take care out there. Thanks, everybody.