The Team House - Special Forces & Paramilitary Contractor | Erik Lawrence | Ep. 339

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Starting point is 00:01:25 That's S-H-O-P-M-A-N-D-O.com. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Smell fresher, stay drier, and boost your confidence from head to toe with Mando. Special Operations, Covert Ops, espionage, the Team House, with your hosts, Jack Murphy and David Park. Hey, everybody, welcome to episode 339 of the Team House. I'm Dave Park, here with Jack Murphy. Today, tonight, we're welcoming a good friend of ours, Eric Lawrence. Eric is former Special Forces and Security Contractor Extraordinaire.

Starting point is 00:02:19 We're also going to talk a bit about his book, Fire Support, A Veteran's Guide to Health, Healing, and Life Beyond Service, which is a phenomenal reference guide for all things. mental, physical, and kind of spiritual health. So anyway, Eric, thanks and welcome to the show. Yeah, I appreciate it, guys. It's always weird to be on here where most of my buddies have already been on your couch in one way or another. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:51 Well, you kind of, they set the stage for you. Oh, right. And you're joining us from the beautiful. Where are you right now? I'm out in the middle of nowhere, Arizona. Okay, looks nice. Yeah, water fasting, like a super genius. In Arizona.

Starting point is 00:03:13 Yeah. Yeah. How many days have you been on this water fast? I'm on day eight right now. Wow. Well, I do it once a year. And we will, and how long will it last for you? I'll probably get hungry because I'm bored around.

Starting point is 00:03:30 on day 10. Okay. Yeah. You lose all your hunger, so it's not a bad deal, but you just miss flavor. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:03:40 Well, we'll get into that because I know that that's kind of part of the detox and everything else that, you know, you champion. Let's talk a bit about you to start out with.

Starting point is 00:03:52 What's your origin story? How did you grow up and what led you to the military? Well, my favorite line from a Steve Martin movie, you know, black child. But I was born in West Virginia, you know, 70s. Good, rough time to grow up there. And you grew up hard and quick. So as soon as I could, I joined what we called the Army and ran away from there. So, you know, it's a great place to learn all your outdoor skills and makes

Starting point is 00:04:24 a Q-course fairly simple at that point in time. Because we know what other selection courses are run right there in my backyard. So it was a good place to grow up. And when you went into the Army, did you know about special forces or was it just you wanted to go to the Army? Well, that's where I had a smart neighbor who was in the 19th group. And I went straight in. So I had actually never been in another unit.

Starting point is 00:04:55 He was in 19th when I was 17 years old. got tabbed at 21, E6 at 21, and then said, I'm going to first group. What year did you join the Army? He wasn't ecstatic about that. Say again? What year did you join the Army? Yeah. I'm sorry, what year was that?

Starting point is 00:05:17 1987. Oh, okay, interesting. So you started, you went through SFAS and the Q as part of second and 19th? Correct, yeah, it was like selection number four. there were like ham sandwiches and it was atrocious. I mean, they really hadn't figured out what they were doing yet. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:41 And so as soon as you got your long tab, you pretty much bailed on the guard and went to act, went to first group? Yeah, all the old guys. I mean, my whole team almost was Vietnam guys. Yeah. They're like, get out of here. You know, this is fine. You can come back. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:58 You know, and you're a 21-year-old B-6 in the 19th group back in the 90s. There's nothing to do. Yeah. So, yeah, I immediately rolled into first group there. Yeah. And then what was that like for you going to first group, going out to Washington State? Yeah, I loved Washington. I was on a mountain team, which is the best spot in the world to be on a mountain team.

Starting point is 00:06:24 You know, we had no money. We had no budget. But the climbing team, if they said, hey, just come back in a month or two, we would. Yeah. You know, we run out of beer money. But we got a lot of training in, a lot of hiking in, a lot of really good mountain ops. Yeah. Because you have the whole West Coast there to work on.

Starting point is 00:06:45 Yeah. And then I rolled over to a SOT team. It's always like CQB. Everybody likes blowing things up. Hence why all my TBIs are helping me right now. did that for quite awesome you know great teammates obviously and then we got tired of going to Korea every trip because the second battalion of first group was the Korea battalion I transferred over to first in Okinawa then my luck and everybody else's second battalion's luck

Starting point is 00:07:15 that showed up in first battalion they changed the mission to Korea so our first trips we're all just looking at each other with a Glock in her mouth or a barretta in her mouth going really find a curb here you know and hope we run into it yeah yeah it was just fucking bad karma man in in first group there was like one battalion that was like korea and alaska right and then the other was like thailand every trip that was us yeah they had all of asia and we had korea yeah yeah Thailand Malaysia Indonesia you know the nice places right you know I got frostbite in first group it's like how do you you do that.

Starting point is 00:07:56 Yeah. But yeah. And then I was on the sift there in Okinawa, which was obviously a good time. I really, uh, really did well there like that. Did a lot of, a lot of the breaching. And, uh, man, we've really got to get smarter about breaching, which I hope they are. Yeah. Because, uh, I spend half my time at TBI doctors now.

Starting point is 00:08:18 Yeah. And, uh, breaching is just no joke. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, yeah. So, uh, yeah, well, definitely talk about that because i think that's a big thing you know we we've talked about it with uh vining chuck o'connor yeah chuck o'connor uh yeah and uh vining like uh you know

Starting point is 00:08:39 the overpressure that none of us knew like we've we had no idea we've all eaten like hundreds of doorbreed and we'd see how close we could get yeah yeah so was you know you you You mentioned being on an SOT team and then going to SIF. That was pretty much a natural progression, right? Correct. That the SOT became the SIF. Yeah. I mean, SOTS is kind of like Sephardic light.

Starting point is 00:09:05 It's the same course, just longer. Yeah. And obviously you got a, you know, command direct admission. Which was good. I mean, you know, and all your buds from there, you all went elsewhere, you know, to progress. So it's part of, you know, long election. Yeah. And so what was, you know, from that time that you were in from 87, 88, you know, through your time and, you know, up in Korea and then out in Elkanah and everything, what were, aside from Korea, what were the missions, what was the mission set for first group at that time?

Starting point is 00:09:42 Were there real world? A lot of fid. A lot of fit. No, even in a sift, we'd get spun up or something. Yeah. But they had cold feet back then. They were scared to get committed. They would make up excuses.

Starting point is 00:09:56 You know, if there was a coup somewhere, we'd show up a week later. Yeah. Like, okay. Beat team's been here a week. Yeah. You know, what they're going to do. But, yeah, it was just really risk averse. It was very annoying.

Starting point is 00:10:09 Yeah. And pretty much why I wanted to get out. And so around what year was it that you started looking at getting out? It was 87, or no, sorry God bless America. 98. Okay. 98. Yeah, we had Big Mo as our battalion commander, Mo Holland.

Starting point is 00:10:32 And I taught him some army regulations he didn't know and he wasn't too happy about it. I found out you could, if you were not going to reenlist, you could request a new ETS date. So I did that. He was not polite about that. But in a week later, he signed it. And he goes, you'll be back. I said, sir, I won't be back. And then after 9-11, I saw him up in,

Starting point is 00:10:59 up at, oh, what the hell is that airfield? The big one there in Afghanistan, Dave. Bagram? Yeah, Bagram. I saw him up there. I told you I wouldn't come back. And he was giggling about it. Before we go into, like, post-9-11, like before 9-11, like before 9-11,

Starting point is 00:11:17 you spent some time in West Africa, right? Yeah, I left first group summer of 98, and within two weeks I was in Sierra Leone. Oh, okay. Back then there wasn't very many special contracts like that going around, and you kind of knew everybody that was doing something. You know, after 9-11, everybody in their brother's a pro, you know? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:42 But pre-9-11, I bet there wasn't 100 guys really doing work. And I got hired on to help with a State Department contract where we advised ECOMA, which is the West African, like, NATO or UN force, who was doing the peacekeeping and fighting in Sierra Leone and Liberia. So me and two other Americans, we entertained ourselves there for a couple months, you know, fighting the ROF. and very interesting a lot of lessons learned i mean learn more there in a couple months than i did in group the whole time yeah because we the guys we were hanging out with were executive outcomes i mean these guys have been fighting since the 70s and uh we'd be like hey let's do it this way and they're like no we we lost like 12 guys and wherever doing that 15 years ago i'm like okay well we won't do that i'll just shut up and sit here

Starting point is 00:12:43 And very professional. I mean, I saw some of them 20 years later still in wars. Yeah, yeah. So just great people, really great people. I still talk to some of them. I mean, Kobish Klausen there in South Africa. She's the murk of Africa right now. But a great friend of mine.

Starting point is 00:13:04 So did that, did Liberia? I mean, quite a bit of work over there. What was, I have to like ask, like, what was that interface like for you as a state department contractor with ostensibly, or they were, a South African private military contractor. Because, I mean, officially, our government's like, no, we don't approve of that. We don't like that. But, well, there was no State Department in Sierra Leone.

Starting point is 00:13:28 There was probably one case officer and the three of us. That was it. One time I answered the phone and it was Madeline Albright. I'm like, can I help you? And she goes, what's going on over there? I'm like, I handed the phone off immediately to somebody else. I'm like, it's not explaining the war of Sarah Leone to Madeline Albright. Yeah, there was no one there.

Starting point is 00:13:58 It was the best war I've ever been in. Yeah. It was, you know, there was no amateurs. One time when we had to go, you know, go rescue the folks from the Liberian Embassy, We just showed up at the casino the night before and said, who wants to make some extra money tomorrow? And we had French, South African, British, you name it. It was who's who in the zoo the next morning at the helipad.

Starting point is 00:14:27 And we took a rock, drew it out on the hard deck, and went and did it. That's the kind of guys you had back then. Yeah. How did you guard against war tourism? you know, guys claiming that they had been French Foreign Legion or this or that. We saw them. They wouldn't last a day or two. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:51 Yeah. They would be gone in no time. There were some always, and they were typically French. So. But that was a great time. I mean, it was a nine to five of a word, too. So that was very polite. You know, we had Russian crews with MI-7s.

Starting point is 00:15:12 and they only flew in the daytime. And I got to ask you then to like finish the story. Like how did the Liberian embassy rescue go down? You've seen the typical State Department employees sometimes. I remember one come running across a hard deck that you know how the MI7 or MI8s have. There's little steps on it. When she hit that step, I thought we were going to spark rotors. And it was just like, God bless America.

Starting point is 00:15:45 You know, it was, it was entertainment, man. And we had it all secured and taken care of. But just you can't make some of this shit up. And we left the Marines, but we had to come back and get them. And, no, I wish we'd had videos back then. Probably shouldn't have. But if we would have, that would just been a real you would have played and had done beer shots. And so we would.

Starting point is 00:16:19 roll into 9-11 and are you still kind of working under the same umbrella, the same, you know, security style contract and whatnot? Yeah, at the time I had a security company and I had the Blackheart International Logistics Company. So I would do different Iraq and Afghanistan contracts, you know, with varying roles, a lot of protection, a lot of advising and tons of logistical support. That was the main avenue there. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:16:54 Yeah, we did that for years. Did rifle manufacturing. We got into way too many things. But that's kind of you were chasing the dollar at the time because that was the heyday of contracting. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And so were you involved with like Afghanistan as soon as that kicked off and then Iraq as soon as that kicked off,

Starting point is 00:17:17 where you kind of focused on one theater? Yeah, I did a quick stent training up the air marshals. They got a whole bunch of us pistol guys to immediately go out to Artisia and start tuning up the air marshals. So I did that for a couple months while clearances were getting stood up. As soon as that happened, I was in Afghanistan, probably summer of 2002. And I'm starting to do work there for a couple years before the,

Starting point is 00:17:46 Iraq war kicked off. But that was the time to be there before it got too crazy. Yeah. Yeah, that was the pleasant time or two, you know, after Iraq kind of time in Afghanistan. When you say too crazy, do you mean too laden with bureaucracy or do you, what do you mean by say too crazy? When you say too like laden with bureaucracy or? Correct.

Starting point is 00:18:15 Yeah. And you could get away with anything at that time, you know. If you needed a badge, you made the badge. Next slide. You know, you just got shit done, you know. And then years later, I'm like, we need new war. This is just obnoxious, you know. And you just couldn't get anything accomplished.

Starting point is 00:18:36 Yeah, yeah. And I won't participate in that. And, oh, hell, speaking of that, I forgot I did seven months in Haiti before that. You talk about not getting anything done. It was Groundhog Day every day, watching the charities fleece their pockets, you know. It's just bureaucracy and corruption is disgusting. And we both, all of us have seen that too many times. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:19:06 Yeah, it was wild. You know, you mentioned like Bogram and it's wild, you know, seeing, you know, you know, Disney Drive, for instance, go from kind of the Wild West, right, to people getting chewed out for not wearing safety belts. And, you know. They took the entire garrison overseas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, First Sergeant's out there right and speeding tickets for people on their little gators. Like, it's like, is this, is this war?

Starting point is 00:19:43 Is what's going on here? Well, Dave, I think that's how we. we want it, right? Right. No, I don't think so. Right. Yeah. No, everybody just waits us out because they know our bureaucracy and bullshit will do their

Starting point is 00:19:59 battle for them. Yeah. You know, never destroy or never interrupt an enemy that's busy destroying himself. Yeah. Yeah, they just wait us out. Yeah. And you and I knew that. You knew they were going to do that.

Starting point is 00:20:11 Yeah. We're not good at UW. No, we don't, we don't, it doesn't, it doesn't, reef well. Like it doesn't, it doesn't. The powerpoints just don't, you know, if you can't talk about how many bodies you stacked or this or that, who wants, who cares about it? What village was stabilized? What were the metrics for that? No, that's why I love SF because we can go in there and fix all that and people not know we did it. Yeah. You know, because we'll trick them into it. I don't care how. Trick them, pay them, whatever I need to do. Yeah. But we don't have to heavy hammer them all the time.

Starting point is 00:20:46 You know, all we did was make rebels. I used to stop the guys all the time for making more rebels. Yeah. And we constantly would do it. Yeah. So you spent, you know, you did Haiti, you did Afghanistan, and then I'm assuming that with BHA, Iraq kicks off, and you guys are involved in that too then? Yeah, almost as soon as it kicked off, I was over there organizing that, trying to, you know, work with the

Starting point is 00:21:16 Remmer administration doing all that because they were new to everything also. It's like we hadn't been in a war in a while. Yeah, right. And I'm a big SOP guy. I love SOPs. So I was over there pimping how to set stuff up quick. And we already had all the logistical, you know, trail figured out. So it was pretty easy.

Starting point is 00:21:39 So I scored a couple of details over there, you know, to run those and, you know, helped out with some other details. And just, you know, great guys. I mean, you find any kind of work you can to stay with the bunch. You know, it's the guys you grew up with in the military. Yeah. And if you're going to get paid to drive around with machine guns with them, it's like, sure, let's go. Yeah.

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Starting point is 00:25:01 And, I mean, some legends, you know. Now it's funny to see the folks on your podcast once in a while. They're heroes. Yeah. You know, and folks have no idea what they've really done. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting because I think that, you know, when I went out to the Second Battalion 50th anniversary,

Starting point is 00:25:23 like one of the Young Rangers there, because we've been going like five years now, right? So a Young Ranger is like, yeah, I watched your show all through high school, which is crazy to me. Yeah, and it's like that's why I went in, like listening to all these Rangers and all these songs. you know, soft guys and their stories.

Starting point is 00:25:41 And it's the way we would have eaten up, you know, the MacVossog and, you know, and the green beret and, you know, and then he's, and I'm like, oh, that's awesome. And he goes, yeah, we haven't done a single combat department. I'm like, oh, dude, I'm sorry. Sorry, bro. Sorry, man. That's hard to walk around but tying that way. Yeah, right?

Starting point is 00:26:01 But, but yeah, you know, it's, it is fascinating, I think, a lot of times, you know. I just saw Greg Birch. took over. I just saw that little note. He didn't remember him. He was by Command Sergeant Major at 375. Yeah, yeah. I think he just took the old regiment. What? Great guy. Yeah, I just saw it today.

Starting point is 00:26:22 I mean, he did become the regimental Sergeant Major, but that was like 2006 or seven or something. I might be, I might have hit something wrong. You know, I've been fasting. Okay. Yeah. No, no worries. TBIs. Yeah. Sergeant Major Burch is an amazing guy. So, but he's out there. He's retired now. Yeah, good. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:26:45 Well, yeah, that's probably true. Years. I get all those years mixed up. I really do. Because I still think I'm like 29. Yeah, same. Same. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:26:56 And I think another part of that is, you know, I admire people who have like solid memories and remember a lot of very specific things. But for me, it's like kind of like one big green blur. You know? Yeah. I have to have somebody else mentioned something and then it'll spark me, you know. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:15 But a lot of that I tried to forget. People like, you remember this guy? I'm like, nope, not at all. Yeah. Damn sure not their last names, you know. Yeah. So what did you like, you know, when you were in Afghanistan, you thought we need a new war and then you got a new war. You got Iraq.

Starting point is 00:27:35 What was your overall impression of the efforts in? Afghanistan in Iraq as time progressed and as you were not only a witness but a participant in these wars. Yeah, that's the problem. I was going between them. And I used to always call it the hell of two wars. Because incredibly different tactics. Right. I mean, there's things you could get away with in Afghanistan, you wouldn't even dare in Iraq. Right. You know, you'd get a double-stacked AT mine under you. So it was just so hard to go back. and forth and shift gears. Yeah. Because I considered Afghanistan as fairly

Starting point is 00:28:14 civilized compared to Iraq and Syria. So yeah, it was just we weren't we weren't ready for prime time on a lot of it, you know, and just too risk averse. There's a time and a place for that. But when something's got to get done, you got to hit them hard, you know, and those were just two distinctly different wars. Yeah. And they would send us back and forth between them like they were, you know, a National Guard weekend, you know. I'm like, this, this is not cool. And then what? And we still didn't learn, I don't think.

Starting point is 00:28:54 And then what did you, what was your impression, if you had one of the ROEs as they started, as they changed, as they changed, as they changed. Yeah, well, try to deal that with your host nation, you know. So, you know, if you got your host guys helping you are on your detail, what's their idea of an ROE? Yeah. You know, so you're totally put in a position that I don't think is attainable or winnable. And truthfully, we just kind of ignored it. You know, if a tree fell in the woods, I learned that in Africa.

Starting point is 00:29:39 Yeah. You know, you mentioned that, like, Africa was an interesting wake-up call for you, where you tried to take, you know, the SF, you know, sort of SOPs into a war with warriors who had been fighting for a long period of time. And they're like, no, like, we tried that 15 years ago or whatever. How was that then taking what you had learned in Africa into, Afghanistan and Iraq with

Starting point is 00:30:12 you know with U.S. service members or former U.S. service members who were also going on you know ROE, not ROEs, but SOPs developed during Vietnam and afterwards.

Starting point is 00:30:26 I think it greatly helped. I mean, I was late years ahead of the guys. Yeah. I always used to tease them. I'm like, don't worry, I remember my first war too. Yeah. But I was boogered up

Starting point is 00:30:38 in Sierra Leone. you know because i thought i knew my shit i was just two weeks out of group yeah and uh now here's a funny part when i was flying into sara leone i didn't know anything about it it was two weeks i didn't have time to do an area study or even read a book so i'm in uh ivory coast at a hotel staying to fly the next day and i'm in a bar eating steak and i look across and i see a team over there getting littered drinking out of the op fund i'm like okay you know they got the little bag Everybody carries the op fund in, you know. So I see them drinking out of it.

Starting point is 00:31:13 And I finish my meal and I'll walk over there. I'm like, where are you jackasses from? I'm like, oh, we're third group. We just left Sierra Leone. I'm like, oh, really? And they sat down and gave me my intel brief, you know, half littered. But they actually, the only time in my life I've heard of such an issue, they were ordered to show up at the airfield at like O'Dark 30 and just leave.

Starting point is 00:31:38 they were on a fid there and they left their weapons and commo were ordered to and when I got there the next day I got their weapons in commo and I got in a helicopter I flew out to the ocean and I threw it out so it's the last thing I wanted there

Starting point is 00:31:54 but they left I've never in my life heard of such an order that's bizarre yeah I mean you're you're saying that they didn't like leave it at the embassy they left that like a team house somewhere there was no embassy They left them with my cutout.

Starting point is 00:32:10 You know. Yeah, I had 137s. I'm like, dude, I know how to run a 137, but I know you're not allowed to leave one unattended. So it was like the gardener was maintaining positive control over the weapons and commo. There's a case officer. Well, that's better than, I was going to say better than nothing. Yeah, I couldn't believe it. I'm like, I mean, I got AKs and PKs and MA 58s.

Starting point is 00:32:37 I don't need American weapons in Africa. Right. How are you going to feed that? Right. So I dumped them in the ocean. I didn't want to have anything to do with it. Right. Wow.

Starting point is 00:32:47 I mean, did they fly that team out commercial and that's why they couldn't travel with that? Yeah. Okay. Well, no, they C-130 to them. Sorry. No, they had C-130 show them up. Like in the middle of the night, left their host nation. Dude.

Starting point is 00:32:59 Very irritated. Wow. And they showed up in the Ivory Coast and started to drinking. As one does. team back in the day. Yeah. It makes you wonder, I mean, it makes you wonder. It makes you wonder like, because that was a State Department decision, right?

Starting point is 00:33:19 That's not. Yeah. Nobody at the group level is saying, hey, leave your sensitive items behind. No, never heard of it in my life. Yeah, you're right. That's something that, like, the State Department decided without, like, considering all of the ramifications of, like, no, get them out right now. Yeah, you're probably right.

Starting point is 00:33:39 Yeah. No, it was strange. Every day over there I can write a book about it. Yeah. Every day. The best one, this is the best one of the whole trip. Me and my buddy were gassing up the helicopters one day over the main international airport. You know, they offload on the little stairs because they don't have terminals.

Starting point is 00:33:58 And here comes a E1 Marine or E2 Marine walking off there with his duffel bag and his greens. I'm like, John, I think he's in the wrong place. And we go over there and get him. He thought he was going to Liberia. I'm like, well, you're in Sierra Leone, actually. And you can't get there from here. So we kept him for a week. And we made him work with us.

Starting point is 00:34:24 And I would love to meet that young Marine and get his story because it would be epic. That's wild. He didn't want to leave. I bet. We had him in civilian clothes, carrying a Mag 58, partying every night, flying every day. I don't even know his name. I don't even remember his name.

Starting point is 00:34:47 He can call me anytime. Did, how did you guys manage? I mean, did he manage to, obviously, like, whoever was waiting for him in Liberia thought he was AWOL. Well, we called the embassy. So you got, you hooked him up. Yeah. We took him later.

Starting point is 00:35:04 We weren't going there all the time. Yeah. It was like a week, week and a half later, we made a special trip and took him to the embassy down there before we evacuated it. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah, we let him know. Yeah. Because we talked to the embassy all the time down there because they were scared.

Starting point is 00:35:23 That's wild. Yeah, I love that kid's story. I mean, he's obviously not a kid now. Yeah, you know. No, yeah. He's 40, 50, yeah. 25 years later. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:33 Yeah, I bet he's a legend in the core. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Nobody will believe him, though. No, that's the thing. Nobody's going to believe that shit at all. That's the kind of thing people lie about all the time. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:48 And it's like, he's a real deal. Yeah. That's funny. Yeah, that's great. That would make like a great movie or something. Oh, I can still see him getting off the plane right now. I mean, he's comical. Both our jaws dropped.

Starting point is 00:36:01 We're like, what the fuck is that? It's a Marine. Flueless. To put a little bit of like a finger on it, I mean, we had this conversation about how you learned so much from that conflict and working over there. What were some specific lessons learned that you kind of carried over into subsequent deployments? Whether it's like operational planning or reconnaissance or tactics? Tactics. I mean, helicopter use.

Starting point is 00:36:30 I mean, we were getting shot at all the time. And, you know, well, we'll do a speedball. They're like, don't you dare do a speedball. You land. You land as quick as you can. Unload that bird and get the hell out of there, you know. And, yeah, just helicopter operations under fire are different than when you're not under fire. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:36:52 You need to be very competent. You need to know how the doors work. Everything works. You need to know your load plan. You don't have time to sit there and figure it out. And that's the choppers we were using in. Afghanistan too and some in Iraq so I was I was a pro at the MIs yeah because then things can lift anything if you get a little bit of runway yeah uh Dimitri our producer is asking us to talk about

Starting point is 00:37:17 what a speedball is do you want to answer that Eric or do you want me to well I mean that was a resupply a pre-package a resupply of ammo food and water and essentially throw it out of the helicopter it's usually like MREs and water and ammunition stuffed into a duffalo bag, right? And the bird just comes down, hovers 10 feet off the deck, they push it out, and then they fly away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which makes a very good target. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, safer to land, drop it off, and then take off again. Yeah. Because we had a lot of SA7 problems over there. And, you know, they weren't competent, which was gold. But they're always lucky. Right. Right. Right. The golden BB, you know. Yeah. Oh, totally. I mean, it was comical two or three of us could make three or four hundred of them run away and that make you feel

Starting point is 00:38:09 good but you're like wow what if they actually knew what they were doing yeah yeah they would annihilate us but they were pretty much all on drugs and just savages yeah a lot of savagery yeah they were doing some nasty stuff at that time you guys and the executive outcomes guys did the world of favor by beating them back oh unheard I mean, you just don't even want to know what they were going over there. Yeah. What, you know, you mentioned the MI being an airframe used in, in both in Africa and then in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you feel as though the U.S. should have given that a harder look, especially like, especially like in Afghanistan with the elevation issues, you know, and a lot of our birds having issues with maintenance and whatnot?

Starting point is 00:39:03 Yeah. maintenance we had no down days but those one time we we needed a new engine so they found one in a warehouse that had been in a warehouse for like 10 years put it in one day we needed a windshield they flew out to a shot down helicopter pulled the windshield off put a new one on and we flew off i mean we had zero down hours yeah everything's hydraulic or not hydroch cable and they were beast i i think we should have them 100%. Yeah. They're a beast and they cost nothing compared to anything we have.

Starting point is 00:39:42 Yeah. And if you could fill it up and you had a little bit of runway, you could take off. Yeah. Yeah. Great helicopter. So, you know, was there anything in particular that happened in either Afghanistan or Iraq that, that, you know, you want to talk about any cool stories, funny stories, anything that kind of like triggers you at times.

Starting point is 00:40:12 Well, what triggered me was that pullout. Yeah. Well. That was astonishing. Yeah. You couldn't have done that any worse. Yeah. You know, and I know some of the people that were involved with that, you know?

Starting point is 00:40:25 And I'm like, you made that decision? It's astonishing while we still don't have boggroom, which I hear they're going to give it back, which who knows what that deal is. Right. You know, just incredibly bad. And I've been talking to some of the young kids that were over there during that. And they're having problems. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:43 Because what they saw was atrocious. Yeah. And our boys in the tiger stripes are the only ones that kept that airfield from falling. Yeah. And without those guys, that host nation unit there, it would have been really bad, even though it was pretty horrendous. Yeah. So I try to pigeonhole all that stuff. I mean, we had great guys.

Starting point is 00:41:07 but I think we lost them for no reason. You know, I've been to too many of the Arlington funerals there. I'm like, this was bullshit, you know. I wanted to leave Afghanistan in 2005. Yeah. Because I'm like, we're done. Yeah. Like, you're not taking Afghanistan.

Starting point is 00:41:23 Come on. You're an asshole to think you are. Yeah. And, you know, I'm in to get in and get out. You know, and then just have the grids. Just keep sending J-Dams later. I don't care. But a lot of this stuff, I think,

Starting point is 00:41:37 we perpetrated. So I'm kind of against the whole Ukraine angle and the Yemen angle and all that. I'm like, we're making messes out of the place. Yeah. Yeah. I'll take their arguments on that. I'll take them to task. I think the, you know, the, it wasn't until we had Frode's ex-wife.

Starting point is 00:42:04 That was the first time I think I ever heard the term moral injury. She's going to be back at the end of the month. Fantastic. With a bunch of people who got the TBI legislation written into the NDAA this last year. She'll be here on like the, I think the 26th. I'll check it out, but yeah, later this month. But that was the first time I had ever heard the term moral injury. And I think that that is a very good term, or very,

Starting point is 00:42:39 precise term for what a lot of veterans and people involved with Afghanistan felt with that pullout. Yeah. Yeah, it's just, I know you're going to have to do it, but do it like you actually are adults and you plan something. Sure. It was just obnoxiously embarrassing and gave everybody else a green light, you know. Like, you can't even leave a place. You can't invade it. Right, right. D says it's April 24th is when Kate Rockline and some of the other folks who are involved in that legislation will be in here. And I'm sorry, Kate, like for, you know, you're not, you're somebody more than Brod's ex-wife.

Starting point is 00:43:23 That's just, I know, I get it. We couldn't recall your last name and I'm sorry for that. But, but, but yeah, it's so what was, so barring. what triggers you. I shouldn't have said that. But are there any like other memories that you'd care to share that maybe aren't, you know, as traumatic?

Starting point is 00:43:49 You know, I'm sure there were good times too, right? Oh, yeah, it was great times. I mean, you know, when you get to work with the guys that are solid, I mean, that's what everybody misses more than any of this PTSD stuff, I think. Right. It's just working with competent guys under pressure.

Starting point is 00:44:07 Yeah. with real world issues. Right. You know, we're not used to just sitting around on a park bench in a park, you know. And I think that causes more of us issues than anything. Yeah. But no, there was great stuff over there,

Starting point is 00:44:22 but a lot of it was, you know, bookmarked by being limited by their, either risk aversion or incompetence or pretty much ignorance. Yeah. They didn't know how this kind of warfare was. Right. And that makes people scared. And that means, you know, the best times was is when when the boss would say, hey, come back in a week or two.

Starting point is 00:44:49 Roger that. Right. I'll find something to do. You know, and you go around and you sort things out, drop off all the phones to a local ODA and do it again. Yeah. And, you know, it's just big boy rules early. Yeah. Nowadays, I don't think the boys are having that much fun.

Starting point is 00:45:08 Yeah. I think there's too many people watching and you're just too limited. But back early, you could actually, you know, be a professional. Yeah. And look at a situation and go, this is how we should handle this. Two other people agree, you go and do it. Yeah. And, you know, there's nothing wrong with that.

Starting point is 00:45:26 But that's a lot of freedom. And they trust you for your judgment. I always said that. You're not paying me to do the job. You're paying me to have good judgment. Yeah. And, you know, I think we always did a good job there. I mean, you've had plenty of the other guys on here.

Starting point is 00:45:42 I'm sure those say or have said the same thing. And that's what I remember. You know, there's good, good jobs, bad jobs. But being trusted with that is always impressive. Yeah. Nobody knows. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:46:00 When did things start winding down for you personally? And was there a reason that they did? That was its own special nightmare. So while I was doing all those trips, I was still running those other companies. So you'll talk about overtasking to deal with your own anxiety or traumas. Yeah. You know, I was working myself into the grave.

Starting point is 00:46:31 Yeah. And today's my son's birthday, but I remember that little jackass. One day, I sold the company in 2013. And two days later, I got divorce papers. And I'm like, what the fuck's going on here? My son walks by, he goes, Dad, you didn't see that coming? I'm like, no, obviously, you know, supposed to hook a brother up here, been a little busy. And, yeah, it just, you know, you know, it doesn't come in three.

Starting point is 00:46:58 it comes in piles sometimes. So I got out of the contracting, sold that company, and just had to rebuild everything, you know. I was a bitter man for a while. Hence you'll notice that in the book. I admit it. But, you know, there's just, we didn't understand any of this. I don't mean like the term PTSD.

Starting point is 00:47:24 It's just when you get disappointed, you know you don't need to know the reason you're disappointed but when you work like a slave and then everything crumbles down you're like how and why did that happen you know but that's just the life lesson you know you got to roll with it yeah and uh years later it makes total sense now i have no problem with it you know it was a very hard lesson but i learned a whole lot to help a lot of other people with yeah for the time i was like fucking near ambush and just kept running from ambush to ambush. So let's talk about the book a little bit.

Starting point is 00:48:05 I mean, if we can, let's start with your journey. When, you know, whether, because we're talking about so many different things, right? We're talking about post-traumatic stress. We're talking about operator syndrome. We're talking about not being around the guys, living on the edge with this pure mission anymore. We're talking about TBIs. Like, there's such a morass, a stew of stuff that's combined. How do you pull it apart?

Starting point is 00:48:37 And it's also insidious that sometimes, like, we don't even realize we're going through it, right? Until somebody else goes, hey, like, that's not normal. Yeah. Yeah. These days, I can an idea guy by just looking at him. Yeah. And I'll sit down and I'm like, hey, talk to me. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:00 And I'll get them into treatment immediately. And people out, I have no, I don't know them from Adam, but I can, I can see it like reading a book. Just like the affect? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's intuition or something. I don't know, but I can see it in a guy's eyes. You know, they're just, they're just dead, you know.

Starting point is 00:49:21 And I can turn them around pretty quick. I mean, I think again, I'm, you know, toot them out. horn but you know i've always wrote books because i hate relearning something so in all units i was in i would write sops that i wouldn't ask to write i'm like i don't care you know we're going to write the breaching sop or the i wrote a jop for uh first battalion and the 353 you know the mh 53s because i'm like we're a joint unit no one knows how to do repelling ops or resupply ops or jump You know, we just didn't have a manual on it. I'm like stunned.

Starting point is 00:50:00 We have to have an SOP on everything. You know, and I've done tons of the weapons manuals because I despise the old FMs with pencil drawn guns, you know. So I redid all that for a lot of the different organizations. But with this one, these were, I took my notes because I don't want to recross bridges. Right. And I just kept writing my own notes. Right.

Starting point is 00:50:23 And I kept, I think it kept my busy mind, good to go too, but. I want to be able to always hand something to somebody else if I don't have time to explain it. And this thing turned into a beast. I mean, it's 500 freaking pages without one picture. So I just want guys to have a place as a reference book to get the quick on it and then detailed search on their own. You know, they don't have to read the whole book. They can read a couple paragraphs. Well, and that's, I mean, and that's the thing is that the book is, it's not, it's not laid out like a self-help book.

Starting point is 00:51:03 It's laid out so I can go, you know, in alphabetical order, like, buy, and I can go, post-traumatic stress, let me look it up. And then a list of, you know, and all the different things. That's the book they should give guys when they're ETSing. I know. It's a transition book. Yeah. Because in the back, I have all the reference books I read for this.

Starting point is 00:51:25 I mean, I read, I don't even know how many freaking books. to steal this information from. So I want them to look in the back, find the book, and then go for it. But, you know, I remember a Marine Commandant a long time ago said, put your TMs and FMs by the bathroom and more education through more defecation. And I was like, that's moronically simple but true, you know. So they're just like a one-bathroom trip vignette of each subject. And, you know, and not-

Starting point is 00:51:56 That's too much. I can't help you. Well, and honestly, that's a good point. Not to minimize this book in any way, but this book is great bathroom reading. Yeah, that's why we don't. There's no, like, there's no, oh, where was I last time? Like, whether you can just open it up and go, oh, niacin, and just start reading about niacin. And, oh, fuck, like this might be something I want to look in. You know, it's great for that.

Starting point is 00:52:26 So it's a great reference. Our guys are smart, but they still have short attention spans. Sure. You know? Sure. It's just the way of the times are right now with these damn telephones. Sure. So, yeah, I wrote it that way.

Starting point is 00:52:39 You know, and I really wanted to write the real self-help book, but I ran into so many of these that I would need to explain so much, that book would have been diluted. So I wanted to write this one first and writing the other one that I actually wanted to write years ago. you know, on how I'm doing it. And what I do today, what I do this week, what I do that month, you know, like sit out here and be thirsty. So, Eric, let's, let's, if you don't mind, let's like, let's talk about, like, your journey. Did you know, at what point did it come to your awareness that whether it was post-traumatic stress, whether it was TBI's, whether it was, you know, moral injury, that, that something was off.

Starting point is 00:53:26 kilter. Well, it was an example I saw I was like maybe a 19 year old, you know, in the guard there. And one of the old Vietnam guys took me hunting one day. So we're out there hunting. And I come around and I see him sitting over there on a log just crying his eyes out. I didn't know what the fuck was going on. So I didn't know what to do. I just pulled back, waited until he settled down, you know, half an hour later and I walked over like nothing happened. I had no idea. I'd never seen anything in my life. And he was an old hundred and first, an SF guy, you know, hard, hard fighting guy, hamburger hill guy. And I never saw it again. And then one day I took my son hunting. He was a one or two. And he fell asleep.

Starting point is 00:54:12 And I broke down like a bitch. And I'm like, what is going on here? And that's when I started to talk to the old guys. Said, hey, what the hell is going on here, man? And I didn't believe him for a long time. You know, but it's just, there's no, there's no easy way. You know, you're in it or you're out of it. What did the old timers tell you?

Starting point is 00:54:35 Like, how was, I think it's very interesting because of their generation and they didn't have access to all the treatments we have. Right. The way they looked at it or dealt with it, or lived with it is maybe a little bit different than us. I'm just curious to hear what you learned from them. It wasn't anything I would give us advice. Stuck it up. It'll get better. drink, ignore it.

Starting point is 00:54:59 That was horrible. I mean, they had no way to deal with it. Right. You know, here they had to VFW where you had cheap beers. Well, that's a great idea. Let's all have issues and then go drink until we're littered and not spend much. And, you know, and, you know, we talk about the moral injury of the withdrawal from Afghanistan. But regardless of that, we live.

Starting point is 00:55:26 lived in an age or we live in an age where probably because of the shame of the way Vietnam veterans were treated everybody regardless of whether they believe it or not everybody is very quick to say thank you for your service right so when you when you talk about when you talk about Vietnam veterans you're talking about that wasn't a thing and they and you want to talk about moral injury you're talking about coming back to a culture that that was very against what you were doing there. And even if people were against what we were doing in Iraq or Afghanistan, they still want to, they don't want to, it's not personal.

Starting point is 00:56:11 It's like, no, thank you. I appreciate what you did. I just don't agree. But they didn't even have that, right? Correct. Yeah, no, it had to be the worst. Yeah. Had to be the worst.

Starting point is 00:56:20 But I don't like the superficial stuff. I mean, I've had a lot of people go, Eric, what do he needs? how can I help? Right. Those are the supporters you need, you know. And I've been amazed by that. Right. You know, and I've gotten a lot of my buddies help that way.

Starting point is 00:56:37 You know, I'll call those same people up and go, hey, I got a buddy. This has to be done. And they won't even flinch. They just, what's he need? Yeah. You know, so it's so much better now. And part of the pisser is, I mean, there's 45,000 veterans organizations now. So it's like, where does a guy even go?

Starting point is 00:56:58 So that's the part I have to write a little better in the book. I'm going to do an annex on it. Yeah. Because where's the guy start? You know, and most of these foundations only do one thing. Right. So I don't need that one thing. They don't help you.

Starting point is 00:57:10 I'm like, well, that's the wrong answer, you know. And in the front of the new edition of this, I put in there like, hey, if you're going to help guys, this is how you have to triage it. You know, just don't do it to feel good. Right. So let's talk about. if you're okay talking about it. Let's talk about your journey and the triage because, again, we are talking about post-traumatic stress and TBIs and operas.

Starting point is 00:57:36 Like there are so many different things going on, right? And how, you know, we talked about, you know, how many door breaches we've all eaten on these direct actions. Hundreds. Just and the effect of that TBI and where does the TBI end and the post-traumatic. star and and and and how do you pull it apart and how do you treat this multi not only multi symptomatic but multi origin right this multi uh cause was complex it's very complex so yeah and that's where

Starting point is 00:58:14 there was no path you know right and that's where i've kind of guinea pig myself on so many of these different modalities as kind of a reason to keep kicking you know because uh you get war out because some of these modalities if you get them out of order it actually is worse than if you didn't do them because it gives you hope and then it doesn't work so now you're like holy shit

Starting point is 00:58:40 I just wasted 45 days in MIR 30 minutes a day five days a week and I don't feel any right it really makes you go who the hell's running this you know so I think what I've been trying to do is to figure out a triage method to teach guys.

Starting point is 00:59:01 I still got my speech impediment. But I'm going to a different brain treatment center next month for an actual whole month. So I'm still rating the triage protocol. But what I've learned recently, and it's hard to nail that, Dave. But what I've discovered recently is you have to realize your consciousness. and that in my suspect in my view of what happened is we're just put into this meat suit for this trip and i think that helped me a lot going okay well i'll get to do this again somewhere else i just hope i don't show up in Haiti or somewhere and and it lets you go okay i understand then i got to

Starting point is 00:59:48 fix my reality how do i change what's good and bad in my reality that i get to choose then now how do I fix the body? Because we've damaged it so much. And there's breaches and SPG-9s and mortars and IEDs. There's no way around it. You're not tough enough tough and out overpressure. Right. And I'm finding some of these modalities work,

Starting point is 01:00:14 but I think we're doing them in the wrong orders. So that's why I want to finish these last couple and then really be hard-dicked about forcing these organizations to do it in a triage manner. Because these guys have to know that there's light at the end of the tunnel. It's not just we're sending you their one. It's like some of these

Starting point is 01:00:34 they'll send you fishing for a weekend. It doesn't fix a TV. Right. You know. What do you see as the triage order? Because like I remember talking to one person at one point who told me that they found with veterans, the first thing

Starting point is 01:00:49 they have to treat is the substance abuse. Yes. That will kill them right off. That's the thing that's got to kill you first, right? Yeah, and then you get into the PTSD. I don't smoke, drink. I don't do any of that. You know, I'm pretty boring. But yeah, if you don't do that, you're booured.

Starting point is 01:01:03 You can't get a guy to, because you constant inflammation. And I call it a daily detox. You know, we have so many chemicals in us or heavy metals in us or just shitty food. You can't get the brain to work right if it's constantly inflamed. And, I mean, Dave, think how many times you sucked up an RPG exhaust. None of that's good for you. Right.

Starting point is 01:01:29 You know, I remember a breach in Okinawa one time where we used FLSC, which is a shape charge, but it's lead encased, and it's vaporizes into lead. And I'm like, shouldn't we put her mask on? And they're like, hey, shut up, new guy, just run through the breach. Right. I'm like, freaking lead. Right. It's yellow.

Starting point is 01:01:48 Right. Well, I mean, how many times? It took me two years to detox heavy metals and chemical. Yeah. Yeah, how many times you run shoot houses, right? And like the, like, it's not the fumes and the toxins aren't going anywhere. Yep. Yeah, you bang any house.

Starting point is 01:02:06 You imagine what you're going to smell in there. Yeah. Yeah, it's astonishing. But I think detox is critical, but that is not cheap. I mean, you have to do blood detox. You got to do, you know, your muscle tissues, your lymphatic system. I mean, that's where I harp in this book, the lymph system. If we can clean up the lymph system, we won't get sick.

Starting point is 01:02:31 Yeah. We'll be able to detox quickly. People, I mean, I argue with doctors that don't even understand the lymph system. And I'm just like, whatever, you know. But that's where I start. And if you can't do that, the rest really doesn't work. Yeah. Because if you're in constant inflammation, the brain, you know, you'll create a cytokine storm

Starting point is 01:02:52 and you'll just be overwhelmed by emotions that your limbic system is just crushing. You know, you can't function. So how can you make a good decision on who you need to call for help when your limbic system is so out of balance? Right. You have to have somebody walk by and go, hey, stop. Right. Let me help you.

Starting point is 01:03:11 Right. And we're bad about that. You know that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, and I think that for a lot of people, that all of the things that that is is effective are also the things that keep they keep them from like you know getting help right that that you might have resources or you might have people

Starting point is 01:03:39 to reach out to but they won't yeah yeah i've had to intervene too many times yeah because i wish somebody would have intervened with me yeah and grab me by the hair yeah you don't because i had tons of my buddies and your buddies too, Dave, that we worked together for years and nobody said anything. Yeah. Yeah, we knew something was wrong. But we all just let everybody go. Yeah. Because we're tough guys.

Starting point is 01:04:06 And I don't do that anymore. I'll set somebody down and say, hey, this is what I think. And if you blow me off, you blow me off. If not, we start working on it. Yeah. I'll find you help. So what was it for you? Was there a moment?

Starting point is 01:04:22 Was there a thing? Like, did somebody grab you? Were you? Yeah. How did you? What happened if you don't mind? Yeah, I was training a great client out in Montana. Every summer I would teach shooting out there.

Starting point is 01:04:38 She's like a Catherine Hepburn type, you know, you don't mess with her. And she'd come down the range one day and I was going to do some shooting. And she goes, you're not okay, Eric. I said, oh, I'm fine, ma'am, you know. She goes, Eric, shut up. You're going to go see my doctor. in San Francisco. Figure it out.

Starting point is 01:04:56 And I went down there and a full boat, you know, whatever he needed was the order. And it took me weeks to just start the detox program on the heavy metals and doing the brain evaluations

Starting point is 01:05:11 and doing the, you know, my balance was bugered up, you know, center of gravity was off. Just so many things we ignore and we, we,

Starting point is 01:05:20 make up the difference and don't know that it's bad. And it was just very realistic. And one day he gave me this little, little gel pill to put under my tongue. He goes, come back in tomorrow and morning, put that in your tongue tonight. I said, okay. I come back next day.

Starting point is 01:05:40 He goes, how you feel? I'm like, dude, I feel really weird. And I go down through these symptoms. And he goes, Eric, I hate to break it to you, but that's what normal feels like. I'm like, oh, okay. He goes, when's the last time that happened? I'm like, can't remember.

Starting point is 01:05:54 He goes, okay, well, let's, this is going to take a little longer. And, yeah, it was oxytocin. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was about as, uh, charring as you can get. Just, just the natural bonding chemical of the brain.

Starting point is 01:06:12 Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that, that got me on it. I mean, that's Dr.

Starting point is 01:06:19 Azalino. He's, I mentioned. him right up front of the book, you know, thanking him for teaching me all this stuff and putting up with me because I was a bear back then. I mean, I was rough. And he has some great modalities, but, you know, he's only one man. Sure. But he has a great clinic out in San Francisco and he'll tune you up quick. I mean, I just sent one of my buds out there that, you know, had some Dame Bramage. You don't remember the old Saturday Night Lab with that one, but Dame Bramage. And, uh, I just sent one. I mean, I just sent one. I just sent one. I mean, I just sent one,

Starting point is 01:06:50 miraculous change in two weeks. Just incredible improvements. And so how did the book come about? Like you must have reached a point in your own treatment that you felt like you wanted to share some of these experiences with others, right? Yeah. Yeah, as I said, I always write everything down, whether I publish it or not, who knows? I've got tons of books. I've never published.

Starting point is 01:07:17 You know, they're for me. And if I have a friend that needs that information, I'll give it to them personally. But this one I just wanted There's so much out there But I don't see it in one place I don't think that's annoying So you know I've always had a book team Back me up you know I contract them

Starting point is 01:07:36 So they know when I hand them a pile of something They're going to come out with a book And I said we're doing this one And I would love to illustrate it But I just keep writing more subjects I think the subjects are more important than an illustration So, you know, I just want, you can grab one book and hopefully as a veteran or someone of that type can see the subject they need to learn about and then start peeling the onion.

Starting point is 01:08:05 That's awesome. Where can people go to find it? Oh, it's on Amazon. Yeah, it's on Amazon. So the book, again, for those of you who may not have caught it, is fire support, a veteran's guide to health, healing, and life beyond service. looks like an FM. So it's, you know, it's very familiar territory for many others. Yeah, the link will be in the description.

Starting point is 01:08:40 So, you know, you talk. You know, I don't know if you want to talk about what we did before the show, like the thing that you felt helped you the most. but how do people pull apart or where do they start when it comes to is this post-traumatic stress, is this TBIs, is this like I'm feeling like this, you know, whether it's, you know, I can't get out of bed or I'm going to pull this dude out of his car, you know, for honking at me. Like it comes in a lot of different ways, right? Yeah, I've done all that. Yeah. But where would you say people start men and women, you know, who are, and, you know, civilians go through a lot of this too.

Starting point is 01:09:39 Maybe not, you know, obviously they probably don't have a lot of overpressure injuries, you know, you know, mixing in with that post-traumatic stress. but where do people start? Like when they... I think relationships. I mean, those closest to you see it. Yeah. But they don't know what to do about it. Right.

Starting point is 01:10:04 I mean, I used to all the time. I mean, when I was coming back from those trips, I would always force the office to let me stay in like Romania a week or Germany for a week so I wouldn't go straight home. Yeah. Because I couldn't do it. We were going home far too quickly. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:10:22 World War II, you know, they can take a ship back. They see you in a couple months. Yeah. But nowadays, hindsight, I saw it all back then. And the folks that worked with me saw it too. Once again, it was like that Vietnam mentality of it'll work out or, you know, it's just cranky. You know, and that's not it at all. You know, it's the beginning of it.

Starting point is 01:10:45 And you have to identify that and go, okay, hey, what's causing that? But if you're doing that and it's a malfunctioning limbic system, you're not consciously doing it. Right. You know, and that's why I don't fault guys for that. You know, I'm like, they're not doing that on purpose. Right. Who the hell would do that on purpose? Right.

Starting point is 01:11:06 And that's the harmful part that, you know, it takes a long time to rebuild those relationships once you get better. But they have to realize you didn't wake up saying, hey, I'm going to be a cranky asshole today. and piss everybody off. Right. That's just not normal. I hate to break it to you. You know, I perfected it, but, you know, it wasn't on purpose, you know. Hell, the name of the company was Blackheart International.

Starting point is 01:11:33 You don't pick your own call signs, you know. Right. So we can figure that one out. That's the BHA that we're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Aren't these Black Heart International? Yeah, that's my books right there, man.

Starting point is 01:11:49 Where did you get them? are old ones. Oh, those are ancient, dude. That's like Model 1. My ear plug out. Yeah, that's the old models, man. Sorry, Eric, I had to plug myself back in. I love these manuals, man.

Starting point is 01:12:04 Yeah. These are great. I did this. I've got like 40 of them out now. Are there really? Yeah, I did all the way. That you've done? I got the RPG, the PK,

Starting point is 01:12:16 the AK, the Maceroy, the Macer. and the Dishka. These are like the best manuals out there, man. I didn't know this was you. Dave, those are the ones Texas made me right in six fucking weeks. These are great. And people can still find these out there?

Starting point is 01:12:40 Oh, yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, I'm, Jack, I've probably got 40 of those now. Oh, shit. All kinds of little handbooks, Pino. and I did a bunch of the little flip handbooks for like M4 Glock and all that. Dude, they used to sell by the bushel.

Starting point is 01:12:57 I'm going to go look for them. Texas sucked ass, though. I don't know how many copies they bought? One set. Seriously? They're making the same set still. For folks out there, like, I've been through all the FMs and everything myself, and including the ones that, the newer ones from,

Starting point is 01:13:20 Special Warfare Center, which are not bad, but those ones, the Black Heart International ones, are the best. Like, legit, full-color photographs, easy to understand instructions and diagrams. They're the best ones made. That's no bullshit. Yeah, I just got tired of all the bad ones out there. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, you know, I have a camera. Watch this.

Starting point is 01:13:41 And I owned all the guns because we used to teach a lot of the foreign weapons courses. And, yeah, there's a great books, man. I like them. But we did a full NATO set and a full Comblock set. Fuck, yeah. Awesome. I've got to go wood for them right now. After we get out of here.

Starting point is 01:14:02 Super cool. I'll send you some more. Okay. What else do we want to get into? No, so you know, you're on an eight-day water fast. Tell us or... Yeah, sorry I was having some dinner there. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:14:15 No, no, but you're on day seven or eight of a water fast. It'll last however long. Tell us about that. Tell us, like, in terms of what you've learned, what do you think the top priorities are? Because you've talked about detox and you've talked about, you know, all this shit in our lymphatic system and our bodies that we've been exposed to. And again, like, this is, we're talking about veterans and vet adjacent people right now. But this is good for the general population, I'm sure.

Starting point is 01:14:51 Yeah, I'm going to turn that book into a general pop book, too. Yeah. I just, you know, I want to focus on the guys first. Sure. But all the civvies are like, hey, I want this. I'm like, a human is a veteran too. Sure. You can use it.

Starting point is 01:15:05 Sure. But my daughter had cancer when she was one. She had eye cancer. So that's when I really went down the cancer rabbit hole. So that taught the detox and all this and that. But fasting is the ultimate detox. I mean, your body, when it's not eating bullshit or any food, it will eat up anything it doesn't need. And that's, I'm hoping, damaged parts of my brain.

Starting point is 01:15:33 That's my newest guinea pig. That's why I'm on this one. Because I did a spec scan, which scans and shows reactive and non-active parts of your brain. And I'm like, the doctor had explained it to me, if those damaged parts are still up there, and you get some type of trigger, it'll cause a cytokine storm up there to once again take over your limbic and you're kind of out of control to a point. That's where these people have these super issues. But I'm thinking, well, through autophagy, if we can eat those up, they won't be there.

Starting point is 01:16:09 Right. So I'm kind of sucking this up to see if I can make some of that go away on my next brain scan. Right. Because I'm getting one next month. So as I said, I guinea pig myself all the time. And particularly what I mean, if we're talking about other parts of the body, you know, etophagy is one thing. When we're talking about the brain, though,

Starting point is 01:16:27 and neuroplasticity and the idea that the brain can create new pathways, then the brain, like etophagy in the brain potentially is great, potentially has a greater result than anywhere in the body, right? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, we all. have fat we don't need, but we all have scar tissue. We all have any, everybody has some kind of cancer tumors and they may be microscopic,

Starting point is 01:16:56 but you know, you can eat those up. Right. I bought you mind, had breast cancer and I put him on a pretty rigid two month thing. And by the time he got to the surgery, the tumors were gone. Yeah. They still butchered him. I'm like, okay, good job. But no, I've got some modalities that people were like crazy,

Starting point is 01:17:16 out, you know, the radio frequency stuff, totally believe in it, seen it work. The Royal Rife machines totally works. You can kill most diseases and cancers with the frequency. That's the Havana syndrome and all this. They're like, oh, we don't know what it is. I'm like, you liars, we invented this. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:17:39 Yeah, we invented all that. But detox, man. I mean, fasting is, I mean, it clears your mind. I mean, my mind gets hyperactive after day three or four. It kills all the parasites in you. Everyone's like, what parasites? I'm like, your dog and cats get parasite medicine, right?

Starting point is 01:17:57 Yeah. Or why are you special? So, no, I feel light years better after a fast. Yeah. It's just good to do as a maintenance, you know? Someone told me, and I was pretty skeptical of what he told me,

Starting point is 01:18:15 but now I'm listening to you. Maybe he was on to something. that fasting is actually a way to head off Alzheimer's disease. Of course, I think so. Yeah. I think it's because you have a detoxed enough and you've got plaque up in there. You know, I totally think so. It's people who's never detox.

Starting point is 01:18:34 Why does it happen later in life? Right. It's accumulation. We are a filter. Our whole body is a host, a system of filters. If you never clean a filter and your car's 70, 25 years old, how's it going to run on a racky gas? It's no-brainer.

Starting point is 01:18:55 I totally believe it to be that. And especially considering that for many of us, half the food that we eat isn't even food. It's not even real food. You have to change that. Yeah. You got to eat whole food, man. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:19:11 We all love it, but it's not good for us. We have to eat the whole foods. Don't go to the inside of the. grocery store stick the edges call today yeah treat it like fuel man don't treat it like entertainment yeah and uh they're go straight korean you can't can't be that's about as keto as you can get Korean um but just think of yourselves the filters you know you do a liver flush you do you know this and that when you see the results you got to go man that's something's got to be there you know there's just no way that's good for me yeah if i don't

Starting point is 01:19:47 it out, you know. I mean, we can get quite grotesque into this. I have many examples, but, you know, you've got to do that spiritually, too, with some of these plant meds. You know, I've never done any dope in my life. And then I went straight to ayahuasca. I'm like, holy shit, you know, jumping right in. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:20:06 And that got rid of a lot of stuff. You have no idea what it is. Yeah. You know, past traumas and this and that. And I saw things that broaden the horizon. You know, and then when you get into DMT, that's where you're going to learn your consciousness. I mean, I wouldn't believe people of what I discovered doing that. And it helped immensely, immensely.

Starting point is 01:20:32 But you got to go to the proper practitioners, you know. You can't be just making this shit up in a back alley. It can't just be out of rave somewhere? No, pretty sure. Yeah. It's fascinating stuff I mean so in addition to the book Is there

Starting point is 01:20:52 Are you on social media? Is there any place people can follow you Follow your work? Not really I mean I'm on Instagram But just to pimp the book Yeah I loathe all that stuff

Starting point is 01:21:04 Sure And no I don't keep up on any of that stuff But I'm on there per se But I still have the websites You know for the books And if somebody does want something done that they'll want to pay enough to do it. I'll do it.

Starting point is 01:21:20 Yeah. Just working on healing and helping other people right now. I started a foundation, really haven't got it running too hard yet. But I kind of get tired of some of these foundations that will only do certain things for guys when they need five other things. Right. You know, so when I get money in there and a guy needs five things, I get him five things. Yeah. You know, not just, well, we only do this one.

Starting point is 01:21:43 I'm like, well, that's not going to work. So that's kind of like what I'm going to. to right now and it's i haven't really had time because i've been dealing with a bunch of my tv i stuff and uh but as i get time i'll do a lot more of that yeah and the book is on amazon and there'll be a link down in the description uh for anyone who wants to check that out um anything else we want to jump into no eric it's been awesome man it's it's you know yeah appreciate it no we i'll come up to New York one day. I'm not a fan of New York, but I'd like to see you guys. Yeah, man, please do. We'd love to have you. I'm not a fan of New York either, so. I don't remember. Got a couple questions. You get your helmet, Dave. Right. Yeah, I know. We got a couple of viewer questions for you, Eric. Oh, geez. Hi, they're not that bad. From Matt, what is your proudest moment in your life? And thanks for coming on today.

Starting point is 01:22:44 Oh, man. There's a couple of them. But, uh, obviously can't bring them up here, but I learned out, they're like, hey, we, we just briefed a potus on what you guys did. And I'm like, what's a potus? And that's how a hillbilly I was back in the day. So, I mean, there's some great ones, but, you know, not for this podcast, but one day, maybe. All right. One more question. What's it like building and selling a government contracting company? Well, I would have done it a lot differently. I would have had had a board of advisors and I would have cashed out 10 times more. But back then I was so hardheaded and so correct that I didn't listen to a lot of smart

Starting point is 01:23:29 people. I did okay. But, you know, I could have done 10 times. You know, I mean, just look at Mike Null there at Blackwater or Black Hawk. Mike had a great team. I mean, he was always wanted to answer the phone if he called and he'd tell you anything you need to hear. But he cashed out at 180.

Starting point is 01:23:48 you know, and a great guy doing it. He didn't have to cut the roads. He didn't have to, you know, be corrupt. Ran it, good business. But he had really good advisors. So, you know, hindsight, crystal clear. I didn't have enough smart guys going, Eric, stop doing that. Well, that's it.

Starting point is 01:24:11 All done on questions. I hope people will go and check out the book. I have to go and start, like, searching for your manuals again now that I know that they're all out there. But thank you, Eric. Really appreciate this interview. Yeah, no. Thanks for dragging me out to do it because I was kind of dragging my feet a little bit.

Starting point is 01:24:30 Yeah, hell, yeah. But D-State on me. Well, you come through New York, we'd love to have you come on in here and shoot the shit a bit. Yeah, I got to see if I got any warrants up there first. But yeah. Yeah, yeah, you might want to check that out. I know some people. Well, maybe we can fix those.

Starting point is 01:24:48 Yeah, please. Thanks for having me, guys. Yeah, thank you, brother. We deeply appreciate you, man. And thanks to everyone who joined us tonight, and we'll see all of you guys next time. We got two episodes coming up on Wednesday. I don't know how they're going to be released.

Starting point is 01:25:04 Dee, we'll have to work on that. But we got more coming for you. We're working hard over here, so like and subscribe. Hey, guys, it's Jack. I just want to talk to you for a moment about how you can support the show if you've been watching it, enjoying it, but you'd like to get a little bit more involved and help us continue to do this.

Starting point is 01:25:22 You can check out our Patreon. It is patreon.com slash the Teamhouse. And for $5 a month, you can get access to all of these episodes of the Team House ad-free. The same goes with our affiliated podcast, Eyes On, with Andy Milburn, Jason Lyons, Mick Mulroy.

Starting point is 01:25:40 That one, you will also get all of those episodes ad-free. And you support the channel and the show, and we really appreciate it. the Patreon members are literally what has helped this company, this small business, survive, especially during our early years. And you are what continues to help this thing going, even as we navigate the turbulent world of YouTube advertising.

Starting point is 01:26:05 So we really appreciate all of you guys. There's going to be a link down in the description to that Patreon page. And there is also going to be a link to our new merch shop. So if you guys want to go and get some Team House merchandise, we got stickers and we also have patches and I should mention if you sign up for Patreon at $10 a month we will mail you this patch as well so we really appreciate that but they're also for sale on the merch shop and additionally they got t-shirts up there water bottles a tote bag coffee mugs all that good stuff so please go and check them out and support the show we really appreciate it guys

Starting point is 01:26:46 Thank you.

The Team House - Special Forces & Paramilitary Contractor | Erik Lawrence | Ep. 339

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