The Team House - The 28 Point Peace Plan for Ukraine is Garbage | EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

Episode Date: November 24, 2025

In this episode, the hosts discuss the controversial 28-point peace plan for Ukraine and Russia, analyzing its implications for Ukraine, NATO, and global geopolitics. They delve into the battlefield situation in Ukraine, the role of European allies, and the technological advancements in warfare. The conversation also touches on the political landscape in Venezuela and the potential for military actions there, as well as Taiwan's strategic position in the face of changing U.S. foreign policy. The episode concludes with a discussion on future topics and listener engagement.Support the show on Patreon:⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouseSubscribe to our new newsletter!!!!https://teamhousepodcast.kit.com/joinNew merch, patches, and stickers! ⬇️https://theteamhouse-shop.fourthwall.comCheck out Mick's new podcast here:⬇️Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/at/podcast/pub-and-porch-applied-stoicism/id1836955475Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/1k3QPmkAMwnGJxMLDwUSSd?si=n6piIu8XRcag1Z0K43A3bQYoutube:https://www.youtube.com/@UCd0Hq6QFk8CoTu5j-VU0Ong Find Mick Mulroy here: Fogbow ⬇️https://fogbow.com/Lobo Institute ⬇️https://www.loboinstitute.org/Twitter ⬇️https://x.com/mickmulroy?s=21&t=-Ze3F_Ix2vlJ18KFvORTCALinkedIn ⬇️https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-patrick-mulroy-31198b52/Bluesky ⬇️https://bsky.app/profile/mickmulroy.bsky.socialMick’s publications ⬇️https://www.loboinstitute.org/publications/publications-of-michael-mick-patrick-mulroy/Find Andy Milburn here: Twitter ⬇️https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fandymilburn8LinkedIn ⬇️https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmilburn2023Substack ⬇️https://amilburn.substack.com/Andy’s book ⬇️https://www.amazon.com/When-Tempest-Gathers-Mogadishu-OperationsBluesky ⬇️https://bsky.app/profile/andy-milburn.bsky.socialFind Jason Lyons here: LinkedIn ⬇️https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-lyons-666873316?uBluesky ⬇️https://bsky.app/profile/bgsilverback73.bsky.social"Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio"00:00 Start & Introduction to the 28-Point Peace Plan01:49 Analysis of the Peace Plan's Origins06:32 Implications for Ukraine and NATO12:16 Zelensky's Response and International Dynamics18:14 The Broader Geopolitical Consequences23:53 Modern Warfare and Technological Advances30:07 Mobilization and the State of Ukraine's Forces32:22 Military Insights and Peace Plans33:20 Venezuela's Political Turmoil42:35 Taiwan's Strategic Position48:40 Future Discussions on Global ConflictsBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

And even if, like, if you don't buy the U.S. should be leader of the free world, obviously I think we all do. But even if you don't buy that, then you go to the argument of, you do realize that every dime we spent given to Ukraine that depletes Russian military capability, increases our relative strength to our most dangerous adversary. Right. So even if you take out the morals, the ethics, the fact that we're democracy, and we've always viewed ourselves as leader of the free world.

Every dime enhances our own national security. And then even if you don't buy that, there's $335 billion worth of frozen Russian assets that they could use to support Ukraine. It wouldn't even be our own money, right? This is one of those times. You're going to have to decide what side you're on. It's pretty clear.

And you don't get peace by capitulation. You're just going to get more conflict. Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Aizond Geopolitics. I'm joined today with Mick Morroy, Jason Lyons. Maybe Andy Milburn in a little bit. I think he's just finishing up his bicep workout. A lot happening, as usual.

The big stuff that's cooking right now that's taken precedence in the news anyway is the 28-point peace plan for Ukraine and Russia that was supposedly drawn up by the U.S., but we don't really know. There's a bit of back and forth with that. I mean, I read through the 28, the whole thing, and it's an absolute, it's kind of a joke, and here's Andy.

Andy's not even there. That's okay. We keep going. I'm mute him. So, all right, Andy. Andy, we're recording, so get your mind right. Hey, never mind that. did I miss the

announcement what was the announcement Jason's getting married yeah I see Mick's already yes he's already dressed up for the big occasion that's right I got dressed off for the occasion

I did yeah I put on a big day he did it well he did it well you congratulations congratulations congratulations Jay

fantastic appreciate it that's awesome congrats Jay All right, let's start over. I'll leave that in, actually. All right, so we're talking 28 point peace plan that was supposedly written by Whitkoff.

Secretary Rubio, maybe. There's, like, so many conflicting reports going on that we don't even know. There is a report saying that it's basically translated from Russian, and it was a Russian report that was handed to Wickkoff. It's chaos. If you read through the 28 points, it's like,

kind of, like, you know, there's some good stuff in there, but it's mostly bullshit. like let's be honest uh so i'm gonna pass this over to the experts tell me what you guys are thinking in terms of what this uh peace plan means also it was get they gave him a uh gave ukraine a deadline of thanksgiving which is kind of fucking hilarious uh you know the state of your here's the future of your country and you have five seven days to decide so let us know as soon as possible which i'm editorializing now guys sorry alert like you should maybe be you know play

hardball with fucking Russia, you know, the actual aggressor of this war over you guys, Mick, you go ahead. So we've been talking about this all week as the U.S. plan on the news, as people know. And now we're hearing that it could have potentially been a Russian drafted plan that was then leaked to the press. and quite frankly, if you read the 28 points, it looks like a Russian drafted plan. So I don't know, but there's certainly several media reports from very valid sources that Secretary Rubio essentially said that the U.S. did not draft it and imply that Russia did.

So to start with that, don't know if it's true, but that's very consistent with the way Russia does negotiations. It's very much their version of psychological warfare, what they call decision-shaping or reflexive control. For those of you who follow the Russian means of statecraft, which is always intertwined with intelligence operations. So it's possible that Russia drafted the plan to look like it came from the United States, gave it to a delegate of the United States, let it circulate, and then, leaked it to the press to basically cause a lot of consternation with European partners and obviously with Ukraine. I don't know that that's what happened, but that is what happened as far as like the consternation part of it. And there was a lot of pushback not only from all our European partners, but Republicans in Congress, including the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee,

the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. And that was the part about Secretary Rubio briefing those senators who are very much not in alignment with what it's asking Ukraine to do. So some of the points, and then obviously turn it over to the other fellows here. If you concede completely your territory, not just acknowledge that you can take it back militarily, That is obviously rewarding aggression. And it can't be done just by the leadership of Ukraine. It has to include a referendum. That would be entirely against their interests.

It then requires that Ukraine cuts its military in half, that it can never join NATO, that European forces who have already volunteered, can't go in to secure, you know, that the war does not restart. And then it gives a tenuous security guarantee, which doesn't appear to be, you know, essentially a treaty, what they would need,

to guarantee it. And it's important to point out that Ukraine currently has an agreement by the United States and the UK to protect it from an invasion. And you can see how that's going. So the, and then, you know, there's even some versions that say the Ukraine would have to pay for the security guarantee,

actually compensate the United States for it. So I'm now hoping that this was a Russian plan that just gets ripped up and thrown in the trash can and that they start over with one that's far more aligned with Ukraine, which is our partner, not Russia, and that the Europeans really step up because there's a lot going on. I'm sure Andy can get into it. Jake can get into it. on the battlefield right now, and it's not really going great. So we need to step up our support, tear up this agreement, start over,

step up our support militarily and sanctions and the release of frozen funds, or we're going to see a potential loss long term. It's going to take a while in Europe of a key Democratic House. Milburn? Yeah, I mean, I don't know whether to laugh or panic at this plan. It's just extraordinary. I mean, for instance, it prohibits Ukraine from launching a missile at Moscow or St. Petersburg, but nowhere else in Russia.

And there's no limit on Russian strikes at all. Russia basically is rewarded for halting its invasion by keeping all the territory it already has, plus some more. It gets welcomed into the international community, including the G8. it gets relief from sanctions. What does Ukraine get? It gets a ceasefire, which is likely to be temporary. And an American guarantee that Russia will not attack again.

I think Mick already summed up very nicely what that guarantee means. I mean, this really does favor Putin because aside from limiting Ukrainians military, cutting it in half, and by the way, there's absolutely no limit on the Russian military. So Ukraine is being pushed back, as I said, additional territories being handed to Russia, would be handed to Russia under this plan. And what's significant about that? Aside from the fact that whole cities full of Ukrainians are being turned over to the Russians, what's significant about that is that the Ukrainians over the last both sides,

over the last two to three years, had built up a series of fortifications. And so now for Ukraine to pull back, hand those fortifications. over to Russia, puts Russia in a doubly strong position if and when. I think we will know when Russia decides to kick off the offense once again. No NATO troops are allowed to be stationed in Ukrainian territory, which puts an end to European plans, which until now supported by the United States to station a reassurance force there. And essentially, so Putin now, he can,

gets additional territory. It's a win for him. And he gets lifting of sanctions, which be hugely popular. He gets to rebuild his army. And he gets to continue to threaten, not just Ukraine, but the, you know, the whole flank of NATO, you know, all the way from, from the Arctic to the Black Sea. And, you know, if you've been following Putin, that's, he is, he's, he's, he has to keep, he has to keep gnawing away at, at, uh, at what he perceives to be the enemies and, and trying to regain parts of the Soviet empire, if not all of it. And that's what he's going to continue to do. Uh, you know, aside from, aside from anything else, we got to look at the strategic messaging of this plan to places like Taiwan and South Korea.

Again, you know, I'm just hoping this isn't going to be painted as a U.S. plan. I agree with Mick. It looks like it was drawn out by a bunch of Russians after a heavy vodka drinking session and slipped into the hands maybe of a comatose diplomat who is now trumpeting at this as a U.S. plan. Yeah, that guy's probably Steve Whitkoff. Let's, like, not get it twisted. I didn't, yeah, I didn't mention anything. I'll say it.

I mean, and, you know, we saw what happened. We heard what happened about a week ago. General Kellogg is out in January. There's some rumors that he was fired or some rumors that he's resigning. Understandably so, right? Because he's supposed to be this special envoy to Ukraine, and he's been sidelined ever since, like, probably that Oval Office blow up with Zelensky and Trump.

A couple, I mean, I was reading through this plan and it's almost fucking mind-boggling that this could, like, you can dictate, trying to dictate to Ukraine. You're going to hold elections within 100 days. You're going to change your constitution. You're going to, you know, like you guys mentioned, like cap your military. It's like, where the fuck do you get off telling us what to do with our country? And that's the U.S. and Russia. I'm saying that too. Russia, definitely.

It's just incredible. And there's another point here in terms of like the frozen assets, the Russian assets, and 100 billion would be given to Ukraine for the reconstruction. All 300 billion should be given to Ukraine, if not for the reconstruction, for weapons to fucking keep smoking Russian soldiers. And the interesting pizza, like I was looking at, is the U.S. received 50% of profits of these projects. It's like not everything is a fucking,

hotel deal. You know what I'm saying? Like, these are real people's lives. Like, let's get a ceasefire done that makes sense for everybody. Not so much they could fuck off the Russians, in my opinion, but for Ukraine. I then work on a long-lasting peace plan instead of like, just these fucking grubby-ass hands trying to get in and loot Ukraine for what it's worth. And it tells, it tells, it tells NATO what to do, too. That too. It doesn't say. It says NATO can't expand. Yeah, right? So now we're selling out Ukraine, NATO, all for, let's be real. This isn't going to last as soon as they get to the negotiation table, Ukraine, and the European partners if they're invited, are going to say, no, just no. Well, that messaging's kind of been clear ever since this plan came out, right?

Zelensky had like a big 10-minute address to the nation, and he put it pretty bluntly talking about how, you know, we're in a tough spot. We're like either give up our dignity or lose one of our biggest allies in the U.S. Yeah, and it's a big deal. I mean, a lot of the weapons system they have rely on U.S. intelligence. And if we cut off intelligence, well, there you go. I mean, we've cut, I think we've cut a lot of our security assistance down. recently, losing it entirely is I hope there's some

European step up, right? I hope there's some Churchill's out there and a lot less chamberlain's because this is going to require and, you know, the battles that are going on right now, Pokrits, am I saying that right, Andy? The hub of Ukrainian logistics is by all

analysts I'm talking to, the Ukrainians are numbered almost 10 to 1, that's a 10 he was hold on that city. It would be one of the biggest to fall, and it would really impact Ukrainians' ability to resupply themselves. Right? So they're fighting against an overwhelming enemy

for multiple years, and they have lukewarm support not only by their allies, but their allies that are literally right next to them. So this is, it always has been, but this is the situation where your neighbor's house is on fire. Are you going to wait till your houses on fire to start putting it out? Are you going to go help your neighbor here?

Right. So it really does take a leader to step up, hopefully multiple, and put their actions where their mouth is. Harsely worded tweets are all huddling around a table to listen to a speakerphone conversations is not going to do it. It's going to take people being very definitive and stop caring about what Russian says. They're going to threaten nuclear war every time. We all know it.

Ignore it. Move on. Or else you're basically going to go down as cowards, in my opinion. And I don't think anybody wants to be going down as a coward in history. But the history's been written right now. Hopefully people are going to take heat of that. And I'm not just talking about the U.S. I'm talking about all of the democracies that claim to be in alliance.

Yeah, I think you're right, Mac, the only way ahead is for Europe to step up to the plate. I mean, we have been in the last year and a half, two years, an increasingly unreliable partner to Ukraine. And even before that, as I've said, and we've gripped that Ukraine. weapons, allowing the Russians to adapt. We've given them too little, too late. I know there's a lot of the audience here who are going to disagree with that, but we're either in or we're out. And what we've done is kind of tiptoe around in the shallow water, being afraid of Putin and given things here and there, we should have poured on the lethal aid right from the start, and then we would be facing a very different situation. Now, I think all of us understand that, who understand Putin. But we are

where we are now. And I would say, you know, the best thing for Zelensky to do is not to fight this plan openly, but to try and negotiate and bring up other terms and counter terms play Putin's game and watch Putin reject things. And eventually, I think this administration will lose patience again. You know, and meanwhile, appeal to the Europeans. I mean, Europe's having some severe fiscal problems right now. But they need to step. up to the plate as I've said and and I think you know there are European leaders willing to do that Poland is the Baltic countries the UK even under a labor government has been more of the stormed supporter of Ukraine than our own government so I think that you know to your point of finding a

church I'm not sure there is a church who up there unless you're looking at a very Gallic one Macron I know that's that's going to send shit down people's spines but you may not find individual leaders but in the Baltics actually and in Poland you're going to find a very determined front to whatever the cost to continue to support Ukraine to fight Russia and and Europe's make great strides in the last two years in manufacturing ammunition particularly one five five rounds which uh you know there's been a short for a lot um and uh and europe's going all in to include Germany on providing air defense systems, the long-range cruise and ballistic missiles. So, you know, I think that's what we're going to see.

It's just, of course, hugely disappointing that our own country is no longer a staunched defender of freedom, or so it appears. And I've said this before, and I think one of you gents mentioned it, too. What does this look like to our allies on the other side of the world, to Taiwan, you know, and most importantly to China, if we can't even write our own, if this is true, if we can't even write our own peace plan or peace proposal or the ones we are writing are heavily one-sided to the aggressor, what is Taiwan's probably thinking, what the hell are you going to do for us?

And China is probably thinking this is a perfect playbook. you know so the the ramifications on the other side of the global to me are just as important that's what's happening in ukraine yeah and even if like if you don't buy the u.s should be leader of the free world obviously i think we all do but even if you don't buy that then you go to the argument of you do realize that every dime we spent given to ukraine that depletes russian military capability increases our relative strength to our most dangerous adversary. Right? So even if you take out the morals, the ethics, the fact that we're democracy, and we've always viewed ourselves as leader of the free world, every dime enhances our

own national security. And then even if you don't buy that, there's $335 billion worth of frozen Russian assets that they could use to support Ukraine. It wouldn't even be our own money. Yeah. Right? So this is one of those times. You're going to have to decide what side you're on. It's pretty clear.

And you don't get, you know, you don't get peace by capitulation. You're just going to get more conflict. And I don't know if you, go ahead, Andy. No, it's just saying to make to your point about Pockrovsk, actually one of our, one of our listeners is a resident of Pockroft's score. That's his hometown because whenever I refer to it as a shithole, he gets quite upset. But sadly, Okorovsk, I mean, it was a shithole before I spent quite a bit of time there. But it's been absolutely flattened.

And the environment there on the front line, we've talked about this for a while. I mean, we've talked about this before. It's just incomprehensible. I mean, anything that moves or emits a heat signature is killed. You know, the Russians, there's talks to the Russians or, or, you know, stories of the Russians attacking now on, you know, carrying thermal blankets, stripping down to almost nothing in, you know, small groups like twos and threes, using sometimes quad bikes or motorcycles.

No one uses APCs or infantry fighting vehicles anymore. Rusi estimates, that's the, Royal United Service Institute's reputable, I was going to say Russian, reputable British think tank estimates that in any given attack involving armed vehicles, two out of three are destroyed. I mean, the attrition is just incredible. Manned vehicles are becoming obsolete, and that's why the Ukrainians have developed unmanned vehicles that shoot, move and communicate using AI. It's quite incredible.

And there is a story in the economist about the evacuation of medical person, of, I'm sorry, of casualties, and they're using unmanned ground vehicles to do that. They recovered one guy from no man's land. You know, I don't, this is an exaggeration, but it says in the story he was up in 30 days. Yeah, and he gets, he just. climbs in the vehicle. It's like an egg, wasn't it? Yeah.

It closes around them. And then the Russians are trying to hit it with drones. It hits a mine and just keeps rolling. Yeah. I mean, it's just unbelievable. Yeah, we do tackle training out here in Montana, and we're adjusting based on all the incoming lessons learned from Ukraine, right? There's going to be a lot more interest, as Andy just said,

individual low-cost vehicles for transport, you know, motorbike cycles, electric ones, automobiles, electric ones, or at least their version, we're adjusting to all that because it's being, you can see how things are shaping out there. And, of course, drone warfare is, I mean, they just took a helicopter down, I think, an MI8 with a drone, 200 miles beyond enemy lines, if I read it correctly. So all these lessons,

that's the other thing the U.S. can get from this. We should be sucking all this, not only fully support in Ukraine with support, not fighting, but we could be getting all of these lessons learned

because we're looking at the phase of modern warfare right now in Ukraine. And it's ugly, but you don't want to lose it. So we need to be gathered on all this information and getting ready for, unfortunately.

Yeah, proliferation of FPV that's first person view drones is particularly frightening. You know, when you read about these things, you know, these things are like multiple, imagine multiple snipers who, you know, don't just have direct line of line of side fire, but can follow their victims into buildings. You know, once one of these drones is locked on to you and I, you know, I forget what the percentages, but you've got a slim chance of surviving. And these drones are just hovering over, you know, both sides have these drones just hovering

over the other's territory looking for targets. I mean, it's a terrifying, it's like a dystopian movie about the future. Yeah, it is. We better be gathering all the info on too. And by the way, just, you know, not everything's going Russia's way. I mean, they continue, Russia continues to take casualties. And Roussey is saying at least a thousand a day. You know, on a good day, it's a thousand casualties a day.

A day, can you imagine that? I mean, it's just incredible. And Russia now has turned on its own bloggers. You know, there's this whole bloggers there of military, kind of YouTuber, telegrammers, on the Russian side who are commenting on the war. Of course, they're pro-Russian. They always have been pro-Russian because they're Russians, right?

But now a bunch of them have turned against the conduct of the war. I mean, they've always been quite critical, but now they come out in force to criticize particularly generals and the government itself on how the war has been conducted, and they in turn have been labeled as terrorists, hunted down, and in some cases imprisoned. So, you know, again, when this narrative about Russia, everything's going Russia's way and Ukraine has no hope is not true. Russia has been advancing.

But Russia's being threatening on the verge of taking Park Ross for almost two years now, which just shows how taking place. And for every yard they take, they're suffering just an incredible number of casualties. A thousand a day, on a good day too. And Russo was saying during assaults, that can be 1,500 or more. Just imagine if we released the funds, we released any restrictions on advanced weapon systems, and we put the sanctioning Russia Act into place, how that would shift the situation right now. And not for nothing, but Russia has already... has no qualms about

um fomenting uh you know sabotage in other countries and the UK and Poland what was it last week um the there was that rail explosion and I guess they're charging to Ukrainians who are allegedly working on behalf of Russia but um it's uh I mean if that doesn't give

European leaders the that they need to get all in on this then I don't know what it is because Russia if they get what they want you know, based on this 28-point plan, that's not going to stop them there, as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, and sadly, although we talked about Russian casualties, there is really, they're not having an effect, right? I mean, no one in the regime that it really cares about casualties, and there isn't, and there's such a firm clampdown on the population as far as the media, as far as speaking against the war, or even about the war, that it's not as though, you know, it's not like it was in Afghanistan

where groups of mothers got together and protested the war, and that led, in the end, to Gorbachev, pulling people out. This is a totally different situation, different regime. And by the way, Russia has not gone to second round of conscription. I mean, the last round of conscription was over two years ago, and that's because they're getting enough volunteers. And they're offering huge amounts of money. The real story about how the war is being fought isn't filtering back to the Russian public.

I mean, last year, 2024, the Russians recruited like 430,000 troops, right? So they're recruiting more. Even if they're losing a thousand day, they're still recruiting more than they're losing. And in 2025, I think it's almost at that level is like 403,000. an enormous number of volunteers now and plus of course they're emptying the jails the amount of money that these guys are being offered is a you know a huge amount it's life changing money but of course it's sadly for most of them many of them if you know actually probably most of them it's a it's a life-changing experience and not in a good way

yeah and you just talked about emptying the jails and it sparked something I had read, so I just looked it up, says that Russia, according to Ukrainian intelligence and human rights groups reports, Russia is systematically recruiting and sending men with significant mental and physical disabilities of the front lines. Like they're being declared unfit for duty, and immediately they're being told too bad sign this, and they're sending them off to the front. You know, all kinds of mental and physical disabilities. It's just crazy. Yeah, I'd say it's a way of mix, isn't it? very, very high-tech war, and yet the need for infantry is insatiable, the demand for infantry on both sides, and the Ukrainians are having problems, severe problems.

You know, that's partly why the line is so porous that their units are routinely now staffed at 40% or below. And those are frontline units. they're just finding it really hard to define the manpower to fill combat units and and then they've got a huge desertion rate you know and you know frankly who can blame these guys because there was a very because they are so low on numbers it means that for the guys they do have they're spending an unending time in the trenches it's not even if when you read about the First World War, units were rotated, right? I mean, I'm not saying it was a picnic,

but at least units were rotated back from the front after a period of time. And so you'd have a regiment manning a line and battalions would rotate. So you always had a battalion in the rest period. And the Ukrainians just can't do that. Is there any talk in Ukraine about mobilization? When you were talking fondly about the First World War,

it's a good example. Yeah. Is there any talk about mobilization in Ukraine? There is mobilization. Conscription. You know, for some reason, and I think this is a cultural piece, age limit, the bottom of the lower threshold has always been quite high. It was in the early 30s, and I went down to 27, I believe, and someone can correct me, I'm sure if I'm wrong. I believe it's 25.

So you still got a segment of the population. large segment of young men who are not eligible for call-up. But, you know, in the first year, and I mean, I know this from personal experience, first year of the war, that there was a tremendous surge of volunteers to go to the front. But sadly, I mean, that was three years ago, most of those guys statistically would have been killed or wounded. Ukraine's lost, you know, the best of its youth. some 600,000 estimated men eligible to fight, and I don't know if that includes the 18 to 25-year-olds

have left the country illegally. If you are between the age of 60 and 18, you're not allowed and male, you cannot leave Ukraine. But an estimated 600,000 have left. Yeah, I mean, we'll obviously keep an eye on what's going on here. I just want to mention, like, the chief of staff of the Army. What are you doing, bro? He was, I guess he was quoted or something about, like, you know, like, hard mind talking about, like, how Ukraine has till Thursday, and that's it. Which is, like, why are you even, why are you even talking? Isn't there a chief of staff, isn't there a joint chief of staff?

Isn't there a defense secretary? Like, why are you popping off in the media? Unless it was. Randy George? No. Oh, geez, what's his name, man? Hold on. You're talking about the civilian, the secretary of the arm?

The Army Chief of Staff? Yeah, I think it was the Army Chief of Staff. Like the General of George, Randy George, current Chief of Staff. It might be him, yeah. Yeah, I think he went on, he popped off on, like, on the record. I don't know why to you that. Yeah. That's really out of place.

Like, what? I think he might be actually in Geneva, with Rubio right now as well. Anyway, we'll keep an eye on what's going on with a 28-point peace plan. I don't think it's going to be signed, and we're going to buy something by Christmas. We'll have a fucking parade. More to come, obviously, with that.

I want to touch on what's going on with Venezuela. A bunch of, what are they called, Nodams? Like, Nodestarmen? Yeah. Yeah. that you know airspace is closed and stuff like that in and around the Caribbean and Venezuela reports about doing leaf lift drops do we have seen a bit of sabotage going on some oil refinery oils stations going up in flames you know who could

that be obviously the CIA working with your Venezuelan people what are we looking at with that make you had mentioned a little bit about that on our group Yeah, obviously I don't know when we're talking, but it's clear that at least plenty of people in the media think that this has started, right? So the covert phase, which would come first, to kind of shape the battle space, so to speak, with sabotage operations likely fomenting, potential uprising against Maduro, replacing him, trying to get to his inner circle to do that, push him out, maybe give him an off-ramp. you know, flight to Cuba, this is speculation on my part.

If it works, it could, you know, it certainly would be good for the people of Venezuela and it would avoid the need for military action. If it doesn't work, we certainly have the firepower in place for air and missile strikes, whether it's just focused on drug infrastructure, narcotics infrastructure,

or also on the capabilities. We'll find out. But the dates that people are talking about is 24 November, because that's when the foreign terrorist organization designation goes into place. The covert efforts, which won't stop, of course, even if we go over, we'll have time to at least begin. And we could see a pretty busy week next week. Of course, the questions are going to be is,

how limited are these military actions if there are military? actions and what is Congress going to do? Are they going to do nothing? Are they going to require that they're approved under the War Powers Act? There's a lot of questions, but certainly we could see a lot of action coming up right in time for Thanksgiving. Yeah, I mean, I assume that this is all calculated to get Maduro to step down, you know, to enhance the opposition within Venezuela and to enhance their position and persuade Maduro to step down. You know, and of course I do hope that we're not really planning to go to war against

Venezuela. But, I mean, it would seem, you know, I hope I don't have to appear to apologize for saying this, but it would seem to be far-fetched, wouldn't it? I mean, especially in light of what we've been hearing from the administration on the side, almost of being isolationist and avoiding foreign wars going ahead. Although maybe fighting against Venezuela doesn't count as a foreign war in their books. I don't know. Yeah, much more common like Iran, you know, and everybody else, like those seem like foreign,

not wars, but at least escapades. If you run on stopping war, I don't think like B2 bombing Iran and then, you know, threatening to bomb the shit out of Venezuela, really is a campaign promise achieved. I mean, I'm playing devil's advocate, those two, I think those two activities on different planes, no pun intended, because, you know, the strike against. Iran's nuclear facilities could be regarded as the culmination of, you know, a decade and a half of planning and negotiation and planning and again, I'm playing devil's advocate here. And, you know, the strike was calculated to preempt the situation that would have led to increased conflict or war in the Middle East or reduced stability in the Middle East. I mean, that is an argument for the bombing of Iran's nuclear facilities, but I cannot

think of a comparative argument to use as far as going to war with Venezuela. So it was like the first nuclear deal with Iran, right, in terms of like us wanting them not to enrich uranium? Yeah. Right? I don't know. But at that time, to Andy's point. Go ahead.

To Andy's point. Israel had already destroyed their air missile defense, their air force. If there was ever going to be a good time to do that, which the biggest risk, of course, would be to the aircraft, that was it. I mean, as you guys might remember, I supported that. I'm not probably at any risk of winning the Nobel Peace Prize either, but that, I think, was supported by the situation. To Annie's point, I mean, I would love to stop narcotics coming to the United States. And I do think Maduro has destroyed Venezuela, which has caused a lot of instability in the Western Hemisphere. I hope that we can do this.

If we're going to do it, I hope we can do it without the need to put any servicemen or women in arms away. So I hope the covert program that the president's already announced is successful. We'll see. announced openly. Yeah. If not, I don't know how many targets. Maybe we have some in our audience that have a better idea. I mean, how long could an air campaign against Venezuela really last?

Yeah. I mean, is it going to look like, you know, we're just going to be hitting dirt strips? Or, I mean, are we actually going to go after infrastructure targets to make the situation even worse at Venezuela, right? So even more people leave? I don't know. I mean, what would be the main effort of the air and missile strikes?

Yeah, I mean, it's not as though. I can't imagine Venezuela has a very sophisticated eye ads. But again, I'm not sure what we would be going after. It's interesting. You know, we talked about the legality of striking these drug boats, too, and I think there's at least murmurings in the Senate about the same thing. that yeah I mean all of us

I don't think I don't know I don't mean to speak for you guys but I don't think any of us would ethically have problems with killing members of cartel but that's not necessarily the people who are dying number one which is a concern right if we're killing innocent

people and number two I think a handful of those boats weren't from Venezuela either yeah yeah I mean even if they were it's you know as we talk about Venezuela is not even the lead conduit of

the drug They're the minor fucking leads of drugs trafficking. I'm surprised I hadn't started automating their whole maritime distribution system. Yeah.

Like it's kind of crazy they're actually putting people on it unless they just really don't care about the individuals on it. They're just expendable by the cartels view. But if you did this with automated boats, which is coming.

We all know it's coming, right? Well, they think it subverts himself and hide and then come back up and then land somewhere surreptitiously in the United States. Yeah, it's... I'm sure it's already happening.

I got to jump, guys. Sorry. All right, Mick. No, no worries. See you later. We might be talking to you later this week if this kicks off. Yeah.

Be a heck of a Thanksgiving special. Yeah. All right, guys, do me a favor. Check out Mix. Check out Mix podcast. The link is in the description. He's got a new one about stoicism. All right.

let's wrap this up with each other we don't need yeah I don't buy I don't buy that Venezuela's this big dangerous narcotic state it is but it's not like ruining the infrastructure of the American people if we really are serious about going after drugs we're going to have to go after Mexico cartels we're going to have to go Colombian cartels and we're going to have to pee-p-wack at the minimum

China who makes the fucking fentanyl like who are we kidding here so if somebody explained to me the fucking point about fucking taking out fucking Maduro. Yeah, but you know, I'm going to ship topics here before we sign off. Okay, good. Because you just, you made me think about something as you normally do. And, you know, we talked a little bit about Taiwan earlier. And we've all expressed concern about kind of the drop in the U.S.'s stance about projecting strategic ambiguity, right,

about whether or not we would defend Taiwan, because us three, and I know McPhil's this way too, because he has said as much, we may doubt very seriously that the United States will go to war over Taiwan, that America's sons and daughters will be put in harm's way. I think probably that would be politically unacceptable to the American public. But it has always been the stance of administrations on either, you know, either side of the aisle not to tell China that, right? Yeah. We say, hey, fuck around and find out to use that overused expression. And certainly to posture ourselves and look at what the Marine Corps is doing with

false design 2030, as though we do seriously intend to go to war for China. I mean, China is regarded as being our piecing threat for acquisitions, for training and everything. And even if it is just a colossal demonstration, there is a point to it, right? But we undermine that point if we turn our backs openly on Taiwan. That is a concern. So having said that, though, I read an interesting article the other day that from a, I love the term China Watcher, but a China Watcher, right, in one of the think tanks in D.C., and I'll remember his name in a It doesn't matter. But, you know, his point is this, look, the State Department reached out to the KMT opposition member in Taiwan, the Kuman Tang Party. And the KMT, they're not exactly pro-China, but they're less opposed to China, right? They're more open to conciliation, although obviously not giving up Taiwanese independence. So I'm talking about in Taiwan. The State Department, curiously enough, reached out the opposition leader. and invited him to visit the United States.

That is bizarre, right? Instead of Taiwan's president, and I forget the name of the party, but who represents a party that is very openly, I won't say belligerent, but anti-China and is very strident in voicing its intention to defend Taiwan to the last man, the last bullet, right? So U.S. has done this.

To send a message, perhaps? And who does he send a message to? The Taiwanese opposition, a more conciliatory to China, maybe to China. And at the same time, Xi has been mass-firing members of his military, the army and the Navy, primarily. And these are the old guard who spent the whole line,

preparing to invade China. So anyway, this China watcher postulates, I like that term, that what is happening is that there has been talks between Xi and Trump and the, you know, the kind of the talks have gone along the lines of, hey, look, let's, you know, blah, blah, blah, tariffs, but let's also talk Taiwan. Maybe there is some compromise here that doesn't involve a hard hour. invasion of Taiwan but also involves more of a partnership between Taiwan and China and China involving the Kuman Tang party going ahead and then you know both sides can

declare victory and it's going to be better for both sides and then Xi having committed to that or having decided that that's the best course of action now is faced by the old guard of his military you are like hey boss what the fuck you you talking about? No. That's all we've been, that's our whole reason for being is to invade Taiwan. And so now he's getting hard with them and firing them in mass. I mean, it's an interesting hypothesis. I don't think he has any evidence, but it's certainly, you know, informed speculation. And it answers the why question, right? Why would we? Like the opposition leader at the Kumanank Party here. Yeah. Why would he be firing? Especially because like back in the day,

would be like a big massive news story right like yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly I mean things are a little different now like I want and and the other thing is so she is

is firing these military leaders and normally it's for corruption but these are not corruption trials they're just mass firings and without without any

kind of indication of what they could be about. So it does certainly answer that question anyway. It's interesting. So there's speculation that Xi is like softening. There's some kind of like under the table negotiation. Yeah. So like Hong Kongify Taiwan. Maybe.

Yeah. I mean, that's that that could be a course of action. Because it would have to be a course of action whereby she could say to the Chinese people, hey, look, you know, I basically defecive. facto delivered Taiwan, right? They're back in the fold, right. We didn't have to lose a ton of people doing that.

So, you know, I'm not saying it's a solution that the majority of Taiwanese would be ecstatic with. Who knows? Clearly not right now because the party that is more consideratory to China is in the minority, is on the out. Anyway, would I bring that up? No, that's super interesting. And before we sign off, though, Dee, I would.

would like to talk about and see if any of our listeners are interested. Do we have any positive, do we ever get positive comments? I think we do, don't we? Always. Yeah. Mostly positive. We've got a hard cadre of critics, but they keep. Yeah, but I think it's like, I think the ratio is very, it's not as many.

Anyway, for the serious fans of this show, and there are at least three of those. I think we should ask if they would be interested in like a deep dive on the drone war in Ukraine. I can bring in a guy who's been in Kiev, an American involved in that since the outset of the war. But there's some really fascinating lessons coming out of that that we haven't had a chance to talk about on the show. Yeah, I mean, since this is a dictatorship, the answer is yes. Like, we don't need to put it to a vote to our listeners. Yeah. I say yes.

Yeah. Yeah. I am she seeing Ping in this episode. And the other thing is that we want to, um, we want to book a, uh, a hearing on the team house, which is where all the drinking takes place. Yeah. To talk about this Gaza paper that, that Mick and I have been writing. It, we, it was 75 pages long and then we found out that the limit was 25 pages.

So that's why I asked you about self-publishing a book. It's like, what are we going to do with this now? Yeah. No, I mean, I think it would be great to publish that and let people read that. I'm sure there will be insights in there that people really didn't think of or know. I know you've been tracking it since it's gone out. Yeah, we won't make it boring. I mean, we can chat.

And, I mean, we won't be as lively as some of your guests. I mean, you know, at least a third of them are in prison right now, right? Right, another one. Just went to the big house over the week. Former CIA officer, Dale Lindler. All types on that show of spies, traders, pedophiles. So, I mean, we're pretty run-of-the-mill. Unbelievable.

Yeah. Well, you know, yeah, once it's ready to go, we can definitely have you guys. Like, let's do a team house. Jay, what are you saying? I'm doing some digging. I know I talked about it before to bring somebody on and talk about Sudan, Mozambique now. You know, because while, yes, the things going on in Ukraine and Gaza are absolutely critical, there's things going on in Africa that need to be talked about too.

So I'm doing some digging and try to bring some folks on and talk about it. Yes, Sudan is good to me. Sudan is just, I mean, it's not incredible that Sudan hasn't become more of a story in the media, but the impact of Sudan, the global impact of Sudan is, you know, already far greater than that of Gaza. And yet it receives very little publicity. Yeah. Hidden away as it is on the continent of Africa. Yeah.

Also, I'd love to talk more about, like, the proxy war that's going on between Saudi and Qatar. Yeah. Because it seems like that's pretty hot and heavy in Sudan. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah, so those are things to look forward to, guys, on the eyes on podcast. So do us a favor. Like and subscribe.

Tell a friend. That's the best thing. Share it on your social media. Andy Milburn is a prolific author. And his book, his autobiography is called When the Tempest Gather. It's incredible. I want you to check it out. That link is in the description.

Jason Lyons, his links are in the description. He's still working on the book. We'll keep you post. And once he knows what's up, we'll let you guys know. And the best place to support the show is patreon.com slash the team house. You get both eyes on geopolitics and the team house add free early. And if you have any questions, you can shoot us questions.

And yeah, as always, this is great, guys. Good to see everybody. Take care, Lynn. All the best, you know. Thanks, sir.