The Team House - The Danish Delta Force (Jaeger Corps) | Thomas Rathsack | Ep. 355

Episode Date: June 25, 2025

Thomas Rathsack is a veteran of the Danish Jaeger Corps, where he served with deployments in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Beyond his combat roles, he contributed to humanitarian efforts in demining and provided VIP security. Rathsack is also an accomplished author, best known for his controversial, best-selling memoir, "Jaeger," and has since expanded his career into writing novels and television production.Find Thomas here:Bookshttps://www.amazon.com/Jaeger-Denmarks-Elite-Special-Forces-ebook/dp/B00UPKQGOYIGhttps://www.instagram.com/thomas_rathsack/?hl=enWebsitehttps://thomasrathsack.dk/Today's Sponsors:GhostBed⬇️https://www.ghostbed.com/houseFOR 10% off! For ad free video and audio and access to live streams and Eyes On Geopolitics...JOIN OUR PATREON! https://www.patreon.com/c/TheTeamHouseTo help support the show and for all bonus content including:-live shows and asking guest questions -ad free audio and video-early access to shows-Access to ALL bonus segments with our guestsSubscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouseNew merch, patches, and stickers! ⬇️https://theteamhouse-shop.fourthwall.comSupport the show here:⬇️https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse___________________________________________________Subscribe to the new EYES ON podcast here:⬇️https://www.youtube.com/@EyesOnGeopoliticsPod/featured__________________________________Jack Murphy's new book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" ⬇️https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/——————————————————————Or make a one time donation at: ⬇️https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouseSocial Media: ⬇️The Team House Instagram:https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_linkThe Team House Twitter:https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePodJack’s Instagram:https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_linkJack’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21Dave’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/dave_parke?s=21Team House Discord: ⬇️https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6SubReddit: ⬇️https://www.reddit.com/r/TheTeamHouse/Jack Murphy's memoir "Murphy's Law" can be found here:⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Law-Journey-Investigative-Journalist/dp/1501191241The Team Room Reading Room (Amazon Affiliate links):⬇️ https://jackmurphywrites.com/the-team-room-reading-room/Intro music by https://www.youtube.com/user/RemixSample"Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio"00:00 Start & Origin Story05:01 Jaeger Corps Selection & Training11:10 Mine Clearing in Chechnya & Afghanistan (Pre-9/11)14:54 9/11 in Afghanistan & Return to Service20:51 Afghanistan Reconnaissance Missions & Lessons Learned30:22 Iraq Security & Undercover Operations51:11 Post-Military Life: Book, Controversy, and TV ProjectsBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

Special Operations. Covert Ops. Espionage. The Team House. With your hosts, Jack Murphy and David Park. Hey, everyone. Welcome to Episode 355 of the Team House. I'm Jack here with Dave.

And our guest on tonight's show, I'm very excited to have here tonight. Thomas Rathsack. Thomas is the author of Jagger at War with the Elite, a book that I helped have translated and brought to the English language readers. So it's out there for you guys if you want to read his memoir, which is super, I mean, obviously I'm biased, but I think it's a great story and I hope you guys will check it out. Thomas's background is that he served in the Danish Yager Corps,

which is Danish Special Forces with deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq. He also served with a Danish demining group before 9-11 even in Chechnya and Afghanistan. And then afterwards, I mean, he wrote his book, there was some controversy about it back home in Denmark, and he's moved on to writing some novels, some television projects, and some other things we'll get into here. So Thomas, thank you for joining us tonight. Thank you for having me. So the first question we always ask is our guest's origin story. Can you tell us a little bit about how you grew up and what your initial interest was in the military as a young guy? Yes. Well, it's actually because I was very, what you call it, insecure young child.

And I was searching for answers. And I remember one day when I was walking with my mother in the street just close to my house. And a new book was released. And I just, it caught my attention. On the cover of the book was a guy with a cigarette in his mouth. and I could just look at that face. That must be something special. And it turned out that it was a Danish guy from my Special Forces Unit, the Yeager Corps,

and he was just a few years before, he attended the Ranger Corps. And his name was Carson Mark, and he became number one at this Ranger course. I think it was 1978. And my mother gave me that book. And that book sort of opened a window to a world that was for me extremely interesting. and the appealing. So it was not that it was, you know, the military was just a story, a narrative about, you know, a bunch of guys working together in the nature

and using their physics. And that was extremely appealing to me. And I decided in a very young age that I wanted to be a part of that unit because then I have all the answers in my confused head, all the questions in my confused head that they would have an answer then. So that was the beginning. And so, yeah. And so you grew up and you joined the military.

What year was this? I joined the military in 1985. I was 18 years old. I joined the National Guard. And I served there for five years in infantry. And then as 30, 23 years old, I took the selection course to the Yeager Corps. You had a bit of like a winding path too.

Like, was it selection or was it your training course got postponed because of, was it the Gulf War? No, actually. It was, I became Yeager in 1990. And as far as I recall, it was in 91 or 92 that the first Gulf War. Okay, I might be thinking of something else that I read in your book about how like a course you were going to attend got delayed. What I wrote about was that during the first Gulf War, and that's one of the reasons why I left the Eka-Corps in the first place. Anyway, we didn't even consider, you know, preparing our gear. It was the Americans and the British who went to the Gulf War, but nobody in my unit even talked about getting prepared.

to the first Gulf War. And I just remember, it was extremely demotivating for me because, I mean, I joined the army to, you know, to get some missions, not just, you know, running around in my unit and my, and the barracks and just train and train and train. So I was very disappointed in the beginning of the 90s. In the first period, I was in the Yeager Corps. Before we talk about, you know, you had a break in service because of that,

But before we get there, I mean, tell us a little bit about the selection and the training. And for our American audience, what is the Jagger Corps? The Jaeger Corps was established in 1961 as a LERP unit. And until mid-Nineties, it was a LERP unit. And then in the 90s, it was transformed to a Special Forces unit. And my selection course, it lasted 16 weeks. It's divided in two parts. The first eight weeks, you have to pass and be among.

I don't know the word in English, but you have to get the highest evaluation in order to continue to the last eight weeks. And it's, we started, I think it was nice. We started and we finished eight and I was among these eight. And it's classic disciplines. It's a lot of marching. It's a lot of volunteering. It's a lot of swimming, especially in cold water, which I really really hate. It's a lot of exercises.

You know, you have done it. Nothing to eat, nothing to sleep. No restitution. So it's just 16 weeks of pain and misery. And Denmark's climate is quite harsh, isn't it? Well, look, it's difficult for me to compare with the other unit. I think it's quite, I think it's quite strict. It's only these 10% of the students who, you know, fulfilled the course.

So I was very prepared because I was training throughout my teen years. extremely ambitious. So I was very, very well prepared for the selection. So I normally say that I was a better student than I became a Yeager because I never really had had strong difficulties at the selection course because I was so prepared. I mean, as before I joined the army, sometimes I was walking, you know, 80 kilometers, 100 kilometers alone and swimming in. during the winter in the local harbor and all this.

So I was very serious about my preparation. So selection course, of course it was tough, but for me, I was so prepared. So I was never in the extreme red zone. So yeah. And after the selection course, what is the training for a Jagger like? You have one year sort of probation

before you are putting into an operational team. So this year, you are being taught the basic skills. It's medic, it comes, all these things. And then you are getting ready. And you're getting your Jager status after one year. And first after that, you are allowed into the teams. It's a very small unit compared at least to American standards.

always been struggling for selection because the Danish army is so small, so it's very difficult to get enough people to get enough people into the selection. So it's a very small unit. It's about 50 max 50 shooters. So it's a very small unit. And the organization in total is 300 people. And then the call the teams is only about these 50, 50 shooters. And Denmark has

Jagger Corps, the Frogman Corps, and then Sirius Patrol was also considered a special ops unit, right? Yes, exactly, yeah. And the serious patrol in Greenland, as you mentioned, is even smaller. I wouldn't say it's a joke because that's not very polite, but it's so small.

I mean, they have four slate patrols patrolling an area of the size of Spain. It's a world biggest National Park, the serious patrol is patrolling on the east side of Greenland. But now, because there is this focus on Greenland, quite a lot of resources are being deployed to Greenland now. And I would recommend for our viewers, we interviewed your buddy, Casper Domsoe, on a previous episode of this show.

If guys want to go back, Casper was a serious patrol member, super unique mission. I hope you guys will take a look at that. So Thomas, you were a special forces soldier. You wanted to test yourself and felt like you weren't getting that combat experience that you were looking for at that time in the 1990s. And so you had a break in service. What did you go and do outside of the military at that time? Well, I finished in 94.

And I really didn't know what to do at all because all my life, it was all about being a yager. So it was a very frustrating situation, not to have any goals. But what I did was I went to South America for two years and lived in Chile and worked as a photographer for various magazines. I did that for, yeah, almost three years actually. And then I went back home to Denmark and I worked as a computer salesman for three years. And that was okay, but it was very boring. And then by coincidence, I was offered an EUD course. Some old guys from the Yeager Corps, they have made this cooperation with the army and some humanitarian demine organizations.

And they hired or recruited old former ex-Jeggers and gave them this EUD course, which lasted about four months. And I did that course. It was around 1999. And after that, I had my first, well, you can call it mission. There was to Chechnya. Or rather, it was the Republic just west of Chechnya. Because during the 90s, there was some civil wars in Chechnya. The Russians tried to control these regions.

So there was a lot of refugees in the neighboring. province region called Inkoschetya. So I traveled between Chesnia and Inkoschetia to educate the refugees in refugee camps. So when the war was over, they could return to their villages and be aware of how it is to live in an area infected by mines. So how do you choose the path where can you go, which was it safe, was not safe? So I did that for, yeah, for one year. and then I continued in Afghanistan as a program manager

and cleared some huge Russian minefields just around Kabul, the capital in Afghanistan. And I did that for that we are now in 2001 and 2000. And I did that for, yeah, a little over a year. What was it like interacting with the Taliban at that time as a Danish D minor? Yeah, I mean, they're just completely. the assholes. But we have to deal with them because we came with our old money, but we still had to get their permission to clear minds in their country for our money after their wars.

And still we were treated like shit. I refused to wear a beard, which was mandatory for all men at that time. But I refused and I was almost kicked out of Afghanistan because I refused to have this stupid beard. And we have to deal with them. We have to apply for permissions in order to clear the mines. So I had almost on a daily basis meetings with Taliban in the ministeries in Kabul, where I have to go there and ask for permission to clear minds. So it was surreal to be in Afghanistan in this stage.

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Were there any close calls? And I remember there's also a funny story about the street lamp that fell down. Yeah, that's fine. I forgot that, actually. Yes, with my Swedish body, we were called out to the outskirts of Kabul. And a huge amount of people were gathered around this suspicious item on the ground. And my Swedish body and I, we made, we made it. this hook align, you know, put a very easy put a hook in the edge of this item because we believed

it was, you know, explosive device. And from a distance, we pulled this device and then approached it and we discovered it was just, it was just the lamp from above, from the landpost, which was just, you know, fallen down and then covered in dirt. And it looked like a mine or an explosive device. So, yeah. And then were you in Afghanistan when 9-11 happened? Yes. I was, my boss from Denmark here, he came and we were sitting in the garden and drinking and drinking gin, gin, we smuggled some booze in that was forbidden, of course. And there was a curfew after 8 o'clock in the evening, it was not alive allowed to leave

our premises. So we were sitting in the garden. And we didn't have any radio, we didn't have any TV, because that was also forbidden. But the satellite phone rang in the basement. And I went downstairs and answered. It was from the HQ in Copenhagen. And a quite nervous voice said, have you heard about what happened in the States? And I didn't know.

I don't have a clue because we don't have any access to TV or radio. And then he explained about the 9-11 attacks. on Twin Towers and Pentagon as well. And soon we just realized that all the fingers were pointing at Afghanistan and Al-Qaeda. And it didn't make any sense to stay in Afghanistan. So 3 o'clock in the morning, we evacuated me, my Swedish body and my Danish boss and my dog, by the way. I found a dog some months earlier. and we drove this trip to through the Kaibah Pass in Afghanistan to Islamabad in Pakistan.

It's 12 hours right. And then we were standing by there for the coming weeks. And, you know, via CNN, I got updated on what was happening in Afghanistan and what the Americans were planning to do and all this, Article 5, NATO and all this. That's a hair-raising experience, I imagine, to be in Kabul when that happens. And all of a sudden, all of the news is about America wants to bomb this place. Yeah, it was interesting. Yeah, that was why it also didn't make sense to stay there.

Because we knew that the Americans quite promptly would react, which, yeah, you also did. But in Afghanistan, my old Yeager call, um, uh, spirit woke up and I called the Yeager corps and told them about my my stay in Afghanistan. And at that time, there was no Danish people in Afghanistan. Very few foreigners. Some expats, yes, but very, very few de miners. So I told them, well, I've been here for 10 years, 10 months and I have some experience with the country.

I know about the culture, the geography. And I have a database of all the minefields. in Afghanistan, can you use me to some purpose? I asked them and became quiet and they said, of course we can. So I quit my job and took the first flight back home to Denmark, briefed the Yekakur about all my experiences from Afghanistan, went to the American embassy in Copenhagen, by the way. They have heard about me as well.

And I went there to give them all the information. I had pictures and the database and all this. And then a few months later, a few weeks later, I went back with the Yeager Corps to Afghanistan. Wow. So that's, I mean, really quick that you went from being a civilian to back in special forces. And you were 34 at this time? Exactly. Yes.

And I had to make some physical tests and had to be updated on all the new equipment because, as I mentioned before, the Yeager Corps has been transformed from a LERP unit to Special Forces Unit during the 90s. So, of course, I had to learn fast about. the new procedures about, you know, new weapon systems, comes. Everything was new. So I really had to focus in the next weeks before I could get into a team in Afghanistan. And when you got to Afghanistan, I mean, where did your team get sent? And what was sort of like the mission that you guys anticipated at that time?

We were part of a task force K-bar, which was based in KANDA. And we are some of the first setting up the camp with the Americans and some other units from Task Force K-Barr. It was, I think it was some Navy SEALs. I think it was German K-S-KAR, Norwegian Special Forces, New Zealand, Australia. Canadians were in this task force K-bar. and we were only 100 frogmen and jayers in our task force, which was a part of task force caper and was, as I mentioned, stationed in located in Kanthaha at the old Taliban al-Qaeda base, actually.

I don't know whether you have heard about tarmac farms. Yeah, yeah. It was this, what do you call it, compound. and it was probably there where they prepared some of the attacks for 9-11 as far as I understand it. And it's pretty littered with mines itself, wasn't it? Yeah, yes. They had some daisy chains in Tarnac farms, and I think there was some Americans who were killed because of these mines and these booby traps they have left.

the plays with. So one of the things, you know, that your unit was very good at, you mentioned how they started off as a LERP unit and evolved into an SF unit. But what Yager really seems to bring to the table is like a really strong reconnaissance background. And I was wondering if you could tell us about one of these missions that you went on in Afghanistan where your team was flown in the 160th aircraft. And you guys occupied that O.P. for a couple weeks, right? we're supposed to be there for 10 days and we were well yeah the infill was a nightmare by the way

it was almost a completely what do you call it steep cliff and it was of course during the night and only monogogogacles and though my equipment at that time I weighed 84 kilos and my equipment weighed 82 kilos so I had to carry

my own weight up these these dam cliffs and our LOP was on the cliff actually and the distance to the village we have to observe on was almost I think three kilometers and the mission was to verify whether the village was to some extent cooperating with Al Qaeda and Taliban of course as you know they were hiding in Pakistan and doing their prepping. And then during the night, they were sneaking over the border into Afghanistan and conducting their missions against the coalition. So we had to see, observe against the village in order to verify whether it was hostile or friendly.

So Thomas, just to interrupt for a second, I was trying to do some math in my head and I'm not very good at it. But so I looked it up. 84 kilograms for our American listeners, that's 185 pounds of equipment that you were lugging up the side of this mountain. And once you got up there, you guys had to establish your observation post, right? Yeah. It was very narrow, very small. It was just a little, what do you call it?

It goes down and then a little bit. Like a ledge. Yeah, yes. And we have our observation point just. in front of our place or our loop and um and it was it was it was at it was not a good place to to to to to to to be because we haven't we didn't have any exit yeah i mean if we were compromised we had a problem and we were compromised after six days you know what happened in the moment well i was i was on i was on the the op and i could

just sense that there was something wrong and i turned my my head and i could see two guys dressed in black, long black beards with Kalashnikovs, five, six meters over the other, over the team. And it hadn't happened very quickly. They saw us, we saw them. And within one, two seconds, they were just gone. And that was nine o'clock in the morning. That was a problem because we couldn't just pack our gear and fight another place.

because, I mean, daytime suicide. So we have to stay there. And we've packed all essential equipment in our, in our burdens. And a guy called Peter and I, we crawled after these two men up the cliff. But we've been lying still almost for six days. So it was like my body was, you know, putting, putting down in cement. I was so heavy. I couldn't move.

And he couldn't move over. And we just came up on the top of the cliff. you know, after half an hour and these two guys, they were long gone. But we could see that they had run down to a little valley, a little village on the backside of our, this clip we were laying on. And they were just communicating with all the other in the village, all the other men, and they were talking in some radios and made some signals with the flags. And we just knew that it was a matter of time because before they would, you know,

engage us. So that was a, that was a shitty situation. And the patrol leader, right, is calling up higher and like asking for air support and QRF and they're kind of like, yeah, sorry, can't help you. Yeah. We asked for some shore force and were told from the AWACs that probably a French mirage could do a low pass later in order to make some show of force. But we never saw any French Mirage at all.

I don't know, just drinking red wine or whatever. We never saw some sure of force. Of course, we had a QIF, an American platoon-sized QIF in Bahram. But they were labeled to all the teams in this, you know, along the border. So unless it was really critical, we could. just asked for a QRF because our situation wasn't critical. Of course, we compromised, but we couldn't just call for the QRF unless it really was necessary. And it was, you know, two hours flight from Bachram.

So even if we had the QAF, it will still take two hours for the QAF to come at two hour location. How did you guys end up finally extracting out of that area? Well, fortunately, the enemy, the Taliban, I assume they were Taliban, they just get their reinforcement by late afternoon, around 7 o'clock, around 5 o'clock rather. It was getting sort of dark. And I could see in my, I could see in the village that their reinforcement consisting of 30, 40 warriors probably, they came almost running down to the village. So they came late and had they come, you know, two hours later, they would have time to engage us and the situation could have been completely different.

But they came late and that was our luck. So we could just climb down the cliff, go down in the opposite valley on the south side. And we had this Chinook from 160 to pick us up just after getting dark. So it was very close before. The landing zone could get, you know, could get hot and we couldn't be picked up. But they managed to get down and we went, we flew back to the base. Any other notable operations from that deployment that we should talk about? Well, I was, yeah, but it was almost only only recognitions.

So it's, I mean, that was, that was the most, well, can you call sort of dramatic. I was a lot of, on some other recommissions, but we weren't compromised there. And one of the biggest lessons learned, by the way, with this mission was that we were too few in the team and too heavy. So next time we now were eight in the team or ten in the team. and we have a lighter load and, you know, maybe only 50 kilos. That meant that our radius was further and we could find a better place to have the OPE. And that was some lesson learned. What do you think, you know, having done successful rec missions in Afghanistan,

because, you know, we talk a lot and people talk a lot about how Afghanistan was such a hard place to do recis because, you know, because the villagers knew everything. And, you know, you had your goat herds, you know, like wandering everywhere. And it was Red Wings, you know, where we see, you know, a SEAL team get compromised. What was it that made your recumission successful where you avoid compromise? We're extremely careful about choosing our OPE. You probably know this software, Falcon View. At that time, we used the Falcon View.

and it was extremely efficient. And as I said before, we were lighter. We made this huge mistake being too heavy on the first missions. And the next time, as I mentioned, we were much better prepared due to Falcon View and Preversion Phase in general. And also, we just became better, more experience. You have to bear in mind that the Jekakorn was very inexperienced unit until the end of the 90s,

We have been on Balkan, yes, but until that point, the Yekako didn't really, wasn't deployed. So we learned fast during the first months in Afghanistan in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, we learned fast because we made some mistakes, but we really learned from these, these mistakes. And at the end of our mission, no, no teams were compromised because we, we have learned and, and we're just being being good at this, uh, reci mission, uh, type of, uh, uh, type of, uh, uh, uh, type of, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, type of break emissions. So after Afghanistan, if I'm correct, the next trip was doing security for the ambassador in Iraq? Yes, I was one year almost in Iraq, four months in the south under the British Brigade, where we did some some recommendations. But mostly the eight months was in Baghdad for the Danish ambassador.

That's correct. What was it like, you know, operationally different for you doing Recki in Iraq versus Afghanistan? It was completely different terrain in Iraq. In the southern part of Iraq, it's completely flat and it's even warmer than Afghanistan. So it's extremely difficult to hide in the southern Iraq. And these rec emissions we did was in some sort of, what's it called swamp areas with a lot of channels

cutting in the terrain. And we have to build sort of our OPs to find some palm trees and just build a sort of wall with these you know, we cut these palm trees up

and then we made a sort of OPE there. And sometimes we had the local farmer that they passed us 10, 50 meters from our OOP. So it's very difficult to hide in the southern part of Iraq. And then what was it like

trying to run security for the ambassador and keeping him safe during this in the middle of a war zone? Yeah. Back there was a very unpleasant place to be because obviously we were located in green zone a few hundred meters from the American embassy.

And we had the ambassador and we had three Toyota Langfusers armoured. And we were 10 Jekers just to take care of one VIP. And Baghdad was a war zone at that time. It was an extremely unpleasant place to be because it was so unpredictable. Either you had IADs, you had roadside bombs, you have suicide bombers. I mean, they... You know, a dog lying on the street or in the side of the street was just, you know, filled with explosives. And when the column was passing this dead dog, it was just, it was detonated.

Family fathers with their wife in the passenger seat and their kids on the back seat blew themselves up, you know, passing some coalition convoys. In other words, it's completely unpredictable and you can't see the enemy when this is their motives. And it was, yeah, it was, it was, it was a nasty place to be. But you also made, you tend to make friends with the animals

wherever you go. Did you adopt another couple dogs on that trip? Well, actually the Danish ambassador, He saw a dog standing and was tied to a landpost. And he ordered the three, the problem to stop. And he ordered us to take the dog back home to the embassy. And she became a sort of embassy dog. But I found her home for her in Denmark.

And she was called Maggie. And she had a long, long, long beautiful life in Denmark. So I really like dogs. And what was the, another. story I remember from your book. What was the story about sweeping the embassy every time, was it the ambassador every time he'd get frustrated? I don't recall that. Or was it, was it you? There's something about like sweeping the embassy grounds or something like that when things didn't go right or didn't go according to plan.

Okay. I can't remember that. Okay. Like sweeping with a broom, I mean, you know, like sweeping the dirt. Ah, okay, yeah, okay. No, I think he was extremely nice, pleasant VIP, the Danish ambassador. And I don't recall any punishment in terms of cleaning or Sweden. If I recall right from the book, you said he got interviewed by some Danish journalist and he said some things off the record.

Okay, wow, I just forgot all about that. Yeah, it was a very left. left-wing Danish journalist who came and made this interview and he made the angle so far from the point and the actual interview. So when it was broadcasts on Danish television, it was a completely other, you know, angle. So that's completely correct. My ambassador, the idea, he was so angry, so frustrated that he sweep the entrance for two hours. That's correct. I forgot that. And then I think was it the next trip overseas was interesting back to Afghanistan working undercover?

Yes, for six months. We had this undercover operation. It was with the Danish intelligence service. and well our actually was sounds quite boring anyway we have to in some villages in Afghanistan we have to escort this field officer from the intelligence services

from out to these meetings in order for him to interrogate his sources in the local environment so that could be two or three o'clock in the morning and we couldn't just, you know, drive around in normal military vehicles. So we bought some old cars and we made them look like they were like all the other cars. But actually, they were quite well maintained. And then we tried our best to blend in as to, you know, to look like Afghans. Obviously, we couldn't drive during the day because it was too risky.

we would also be exposed. So that was another reason to why we did during the night. So we painted our faces and we had beards and local clothes and then just a lot of weapons in the car. And completely on our own. We didn't have any backup. If we were compromised there, we would have a very big problem because we couldn't call QIF or anything. We're completed on our own. So that was the risky part of the operation.

But, I mean, no big drama. We were almost compromised one time, but that's all. So just a matter of being extremely low profile, that was the most important issue with that operation. But completely another mindset, by the way, to do this sort of operation. I mean, normally we don't do this. To do this a very quiet, low-key, low-profile operation was a completely another mindset for me, I remember.

It's also like part of the, you know, because the Danish military is small and Danish special operations is even smaller, you guys have to like cover all of these different missions. That's right. We don't have resources just, you know, to have one squadron. taking care of unconventional warfare and another direct action. We have to, to the best of our abilities to do it all. So that's, of course, sign consuming and tricky. But yeah, that's correct.

So on that note, let's talk about a couple things back home because you guys also have domestic missions and, you know, of course, training missions that you do back home too. There was one where you guys did security for, I think it was an economic forum of some sort, back in Denmark and trained up and prepared extensively for that. Yeah, that's correct. It was a EU meeting. And Copenhagen was hosting this meeting.

And all military units almost and all police units were, involved in this project or this this this meeting and we we had the the responsibility for I think four hotels in order to make evacuation plans for the for the guests attending the meetings that means we had to prepare on the roof on the hotels for helicopter extraction or rappelling down the sides and fire landscape plants and so forth. Quite boring, actually. Well, I mean, you also prepared base jumping,

which I wouldn't consider boring. No, no, but I mean, we consider the option. But, I mean, 150 meters doing base jump, you really have, you know, you have been free-falling. And it's not on, it's not on the top of. your list doing a base jump from 150. I don't know if it was from the same period of time, but maybe my favorite picture out of your book

is the dude jumping out of the helicopter in tackling the guy on the jet ski. Oh, yeah. Yes. It was just a demo. I think it was the Eager course. Was it 40 years birthday? I think so. And it was a demo in the harbor.

So just show, yeah. That's awesome. And then tell us about Nighthawk. Yeah, Nighthawk is an annual exercise with various foreign units from Scandinavia, the Swedes, the Norwegians, the British. Some American units has been there as well. Special Forces. Delta was in the 90s and the beginning of

the 10th, what they call it, an American. The 2000s? You mentioned some Jagercord guys like jumping into Hawaii with Delta at one point on training. That sounds like a good gig. Yeah. I know a former sergeant major in the Yeager Coe, he got personal with some of the people

from from from from from delta and um i think this this connection is still between these two units the acre code don't talk about it obviously and uh and and it's it's it's of course very useful for for the yaker code to have these to have access sure at relations to and connections in this in this unit because they have training facilities that we only can dream of and that was for example, this exercise on Hawaii where they jumped in and to make an exercise that could be nice.

And so Nighthawk, I mean, it's like very realistic full mission profile training that you guys do, right? Yeah, it's a lot of assets at least compared to Danish standards. But a lot of aircrafts and a lot of helicopters and it's just preparing during the day

and then the missions during the night and then debriefing and then you just go over and over again for for eight 10 days. It's a very good exercise, especially because we have to, you know, cooperate with all the other units and that's extremely useful. And it reminds me that, you know, you talk about doing a free fall jump into nighthawk or at least one training iterations. Do you want to tell the story about your hallow jump that got a little if, Yeah, we were jumping for, jumping for 13,000 feet.

It was a dark night in November, cold. And we exited the C-130 over the ocean. And I pulled my shoot in around 10,000 feet and set the course directly east towards the beach and this landing zone was an unknown landing zone. And I came over the show and I had my course

and then I started to make my final to the landing zone. But I discovered that I was backing. The weather forecast had been wrong and the wind appeared to be much stronger than the weather forecast said. So that was obviously a problem for me.

to back in my shoot. So I had a problem. And to make this situation a little bit more serious, suddenly I heard this sort of whisper. I never forget that sound. I have this, and I pull my own one handle so I can see over my shoulder.

And I see these three or four big windmills, windmills, maybe three, 400 meters behind me. Oh, like ocean turbine, the turbines for electric. Yes, yeah. And I was backing towards these windmills. So that was obviously a very shitty situation. So the only thing I could do was just to turn 180 and then fly with, you know, full power between these big windmills. And then I landed, you know, way, way, way too fast.

and really, yeah. But I never forget these damn windmills. And another training mission in your book that's interesting is where you guys have to tackle a cruise liner. Yeah, that was a training exercise as a part of the Danish national counter-terrorism setup. And we use two or three times a year. we train with the Danish counter-terrorism police

because the Yeager Corps also is a part of this national setup. And it's just, you know, we bought the ship either on fast-roving or rappelling, mostly fast-dropping or boarding from a rip boat and with these small ladders. And then we have this hostage situation on the ship, which, by the way, is quite complex because it's quite difficult to get the, overview when you had to navigate inside a big ship it's difficult with the combs because they can't always reach through the walls and all this so so it can very very fast get very complex so it was but very useful and and and exciting exercises that's super cool um and then at this point

back to iraq um can you tell us this story about you know you're you're back with the yaggers in Iraq, the in deep shit story, the chapter from your book. Yeah. There was a headquarter from one of the local militias. And one of the big problems in the area was that they were firing these rockets, improvised rockets into the Danish camp and the British camp. So one of our mission was to identify where these weapon casheed. were where they were where they hide it there all all their their rockets and the ammunition in general

so we got this intel on one militia headquarter in in the outskirts of basra it's uh joshalmati right yeah and for some reason they wanted us to go in and look at it um seemed quite clumsy to me but anyway that was that was a mission so we were dropped off by the helicopter and then had two, three kilometers until this forest area consisting of palm trees and a channel cutting through this palm forest, what do you call it, around four kilometers. And on the satellite photos, it was just cut through maybe 20 or 18, I think it was of these small channels. And on the satellite photos, on aerial photos,

it seemed quite innocent. It didn't seem that tricky to get over these 18 or 19 channels. But after getting to the first one, we realized that it was, first of all, it was guarded by barbed wire. So we have to crawl in the barbed wire and then down these channels, which was much broader than we expected. And we discovered after two or three channels that it smelled, felt like terrible smell.

And we discovered it was the village's sewage system that we have to pass every time we went down in these 1820 channels into this actual shit from the village. So it was a very long way with these 1820 channels before we could get to the target. And unfortunately we had to get another, we went another way out. the same way back to the pickup. But it was, well, that was not pleasant though. And I take it you burned to those uniforms when you got back. We did, yeah.

Because of new ones. And then you also had an opportunity to, was there destruction of a rocket cash? Yes. So long time ago. I can't really remember. Oh, it's okay. Yeah, yeah, no worries.

And there's another mission where you guys were the QRF for the conventional Danish forces, right? Yeah. Actually, we were preparing for another mission and our platoon commander, he came running in the tent and said we have to be QRF right now. So we just got our weapons and boarded the helicopter and were briefed on the way to the area. And it turned out that a Danish platoon was, was not able to get out of this village. And from our position, we tried to

to court the attention of the Iraqi militia who had caught this this platoon. And the rest of the battalion was on the way. And they came and made this one platoon get out. But one Danish soldier was killed in this in this firefight. And we didn't get any real action besides from just being standing by in the area, in the perimeter of the area.

But no, no, no, no, no real drama. And then something else that happened back home, you know, your unit was awarded the presidential unit citation by President George W. Bush. And from the way you describe it in the book, it seems like that kind of like went without being recognized back home at Denmark. Yeah. You want to talk a little bit about that? Yeah, and I'm just getting annoyed by thinking about it so many years after,

but it's just so typical Danish. I mean, by coincidence, I was standing in a conference room in 2004, I think. I mean, two years after we came home from Afghanistan. I'm just looking at this photo of the boss, Lieutenant Colonel Frank Lister, and he was shaking hand with President George Bush. and I went into the office, to the guys in there and said, what's going on there? What did he do over there?

And why have we heard anything about that? And it turned out, as you said, that the Yeager Corps and the Frogman Corps, by the way, was awarded this presidential unitization. I didn't know what it was, so I had to Google. And it's, well, it's quite an achievement. So I was proud to get that, to know that. I think when we got it, it wasn't awarded to any units. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think from since the Vietnam War, I think it hadn't been awarded to that many units. So my boss, he then addressed the unit and then he addressed the American Embassy. And then two weeks later, the attaché from the American Embassy, he came and we then got this little. what do you call it? A ribbon. Yeah, ribbon, yeah. But it's just, I mean, it's just typical being a small army and, you know, why not celebrate?

Because it's the first time we get this award, why not celebrate? I never get it, but it's just so typical Danish. Tell us a little bit about your exit from the unit. Like when did that day come that you decided you were ready to get out of the military? Yeah, I was 41 years old. And I knew that that would put me in some section and I was just, you know, pushing paper. And I didn't want to do that. I wanted to be in the army in order to be, you know, being in a team.

Not doing a preparation of orders or what do you call it and all this. I didn't want to do that. So I left the Eager Corps as 41 years old after 11 years of service. Yeah, and that was, I didn't mind actually. But I just drove out of the main gate. I left two cases of beers to the squadron. And we just had a beer and then I drove out with my dog

through the main gate. And I don't think you do the same way in the American Army. I think you have an exit which is more celebrated that we put them that way. I don't think you just leave your unit. Some do and some don't.

Yeah. It really depends. I mean, there are unfortunately stories, you know, a soldier even who loses his leg and kind of they slide his discharge papers across the table like, see ya. But there are other times, you know, I was very fortunate. You know, the guys gave me a plaque and said thank you and all this stuff. And it was a very nice exit, yes.

Okay. Well, it's not because I'm feeling sorry for myself, not at all. I just, I mean, why not, why not, you know. Celebrate. It's pretty cold. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

But they don't get it. Is that sort of what led to you writing your book? Yager because the people of Denmark just don't really know what you guys do. Yeah, sort of, sort of part of it was. Another part was that I really didn't know what to do. I was 41 years old and I didn't have a clue of what to do with my life. So why not maybe write a book and I made a pitch and I believed it could be a nice way to sort of work with these.

emotional dimension of the job, I think that could be helpful. And that was another part of the reason. So it was these two main reasons, yeah. And then I pitched for some publishing companies. I got a four or five nose. And then I got a yes. And then I started writing the book in 2008.

Yeah. And tell us about the controversy when the book came out. Yeah. Of course, I've cleared the book. I have some lawyers, two lawyers, to read the book before I went to, before we published. I wrote to the Yeager call, listen, I'm ready with my book now. Do you want to read it? And it didn't manage to reply on that email. I got some of my teammates to read the book. So I was completely confident and sure that this book didn't breach my confidentiality. what they call it, agreement. What's the word? Yeah, yeah, like a non-disclosure agreement. So, but, but, and then I just pushed the bottom and it was, was, it was, it was printed. And by coincidence, it was discovered by, by a journalist who interviewed the,

the defense minister. And he called the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, what this book coming from this yeager. Do you know about that? And they didn't. So it was, then it became a huge scandal because the military, they believed that I have reached my confidentiality agreement. And they wanted to put me away for 11 years, or 12 years actually, in prison. And it was a huge gantle in Denmark.

So I just went under the radar for the. for the next 12 months during this period, I was suspended from work. I was interrogated by the lawyers from the army. And at the end, they came to the conclusion that they wouldn't do anything further with this book. And they, they, I was put back into service again and doing my, the rest part of my, of my, of my service in the military outside the Yeager Corps in another unit so national guard unit i was i was doing that so huge scandal but but no uh completely stupid uh instead of embracing the book and making some PR um but that they they choose to make this big big scandal i was going to ask i mean

did all the uh controversy actually help sell the book yeah yeah yeah i mean Denmark i mean if you sell if you sell 10,000 books in Denmark, it's a bestseller. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think seven days after my release, I had sold 30,000 books. Wow. And now it has sold totally, including the foreign market in Germany, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Bulgaria. It has sold, I think, 450,000 copies now. Yeah, that's huge.

Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. A lot of books in Sweden and Norway. but of course obviously most in Denmark but it's a lot it's a so I I didn't complain but it wasn't my intention to make to make this controversy it was not my intention my intention at all I just wanted to make to write a good story about about you know about being a soldier but it didn't turn out that way and I've I made some good money on that yeah I'm biased of course as I said earlier on I mean I think it's a great book uh it's called

called Jagger at War with the Elite. You guys can find it now, obviously in Danish, also in English. I hope you guys will check it out. And after Jagger came out, you wrote some novels too, right? Yes, I've been writing five novels and two books. What do you call it? This motivational type of books. Okay, yeah.

Yeah, like leadership, inspiration, that sort of thing. Yes, yeah. But five novels about my main character Michael Plessner and of course he's of ex-Ireger and they take place different places in Somalia. I went down three times to Somalia to make research in 2012 to interview this tribe which is in my second novel

which is called Black Dawn. they take place in Greenland. The third in the Syrian is called Dead Man's Bay. It takes place in Greenland in the capital, Nook. And then on the Kula Peninsula, the Russian former submarine base and just on the border on Finland, and then about human trafficking as well. So that's the subjects.

Are those books available in English? No. I would like to. Yeah, I would like to. But it's difficult as a Dane. I know. I know. It's very difficult as a Dane because you have all your, you are, you're one yourself. You're right.

I know, Jack. So it's very difficult for a tiny nation for me to penetrate the foreign market is very difficult. But obviously, I would like to. Yeah. I'm sorry. I love to see it too. I love to read them. And then what are some of the, you also got involved in a bunch of TV projects, right?

Yeah, it's a British format. It's called Corpse, the Right Stuff. And it's just some, it's, it's basically reality TV. But it's quite fun. And we have these 15 students and in a period of eight days, we make this condensated version of this election course. And then, you know, one, two, three, maybe three finish. And it's broadcasts on daily standards.

television. It's good, it's good fun and it makes me a little, you know, exposed so I can do some more lectures and make some more money. So that's okay. How many seasons of the show have you done? Eight. Oh, wow. Okay. That's fantastic. I've been participating in six. I declined the last season because I want to, yeah, we couldn't agree on the contract. And you said there's something else that you're working on with Columbia? Yeah, I just mentioned it because it might be interesting.

But I mean, it's a Danish series. I don't know whether it's interesting for you at all. But I just went to Colombia. I went to Colombia in 22 for one month. And the mission was to show the cartels dominance in Colombia in producing cocaine. They have never been produced so much cocaine globally as there is now and they have never been consumed so much cocaine as there is now. So I was embedded with the Colombian Special Forces called Colombia,

what they called, commando jungler. Yeah, it's arrows. Yeah, pleasure to be with these guys. And I went into the jungle with them in their Blackhawks and we identified cooking labs and blew them up. And I was just with my camera crew, a cameraman and an instructor. And I was in the labs in the jungle for this period of time. And I also lived with a cocaine farmer and his son for four days.

And I saw how they took the leaves from the coca trees and how they blended them and how they made the coca pasta. and they smuggled the coca pasta out through the jungle to other transit points where the cartels freighted this cocaine pasta to other laboratories who made the final cocaine as we know it, the white powder. And we just, and what that was the laboratories we demolished. And also had the opportunity to interview some people from the biggest cartel in Colombia called Clarendel Golfo, a hitman from.

Clan del Golfo I interviewed a crazy crazy guy his living was just his work was get up in the morning and kill people and he just got a hit list every day and two three people he went out just to bang to

to eliminate them four weeks because I did four weeks before I made my interview he had to kill a pregnant woman he didn't like that but that was his life and he was fucked because he couldn't just

a sign. He was fucked in the cartel. I mean, they just let their people that don't let them go. So he was in there for life. So it's a crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy country. And that's going to be on Danish television? Yeah, it's in Danish

television. Yeah. Yeah. Anything else going on today, Thomas, that you want to tell people about? Anything going on either in your life or your career or anything that you want folks to know? Well, no. nothing of interest.

I can, I don't think so. Okay. No, it would, it would be too boring to tell. My life is a little bit boring these days, so I, hopefully I can find a way out. Where can people find you on the internet if they want to reach out to you? Thomasratzak, gmail.com. Okay.

I have my website, Thomasratzak. DK, DK, obviously, for Denmark. and then I'm on Instagram, Thomas underscore RedSec as well. And we'll have links down in the description for podcast listeners or YouTube viewers. You guys will be able to find that stuff down there. Dee, do we have any questions for Thomas? No, no questions. Okay.

So that's it. Thomas, we'll let you go. I know it's quite late where you are in your neck of the woods in Denmark. Really appreciate you, though, making the effort to dial in today and do this interview. Thank you. Awesome. Pleas to find me. Thank you very much. All right. We will see all you guys next time. Hey guys, it's Jack. I just want to talk to you for a moment about how you can support the show.

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