The Team House - The French Foreign Legion 2REP with Joel Struthers, Ep. 42

Episode Date: May 16, 2020

Joel Struthers served in the elite 2REP of the French Foreign Legion. In this in-depth interview we discuss the history of the legion, his recruitment and training, induction into 2REP, and deployments to Africa. Appel: A Canadian in the French Foreign Legion https://www.amazon.com/Appel-Canadian... Check out his clothing line here: legionengineered.com Support the stream on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/m/TheTeamHouseBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

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Hey, everybody. Welcome to the team house. I'm David Park with my co-host, Jack Murphy, sorry. Jazz Hans. Yeah, jazz hands. Today we're here with Joel Struthers, who wrote the book Appell. Joel spent six years in the French Foreign Legion. Actually, in a very specialized unit.

like the top tier unit of the French Formal region, right, the GCP, which is, you know, the, it's not necessarily above two rep the parachute regiment, but certainly more selective. So welcome, Joel. We really appreciate you being here. Well, thank you. It's my person. I appreciate the opportunity. It's, yeah, nice to meet you guys. Yeah, he too, Joel. So why don't we just kind of start with sort of your origin story? Like how you were in the French Formal Legion? How did that happen? Who were you and when did that happen?

So my mom and dad had me. We'll get into details. My dad was militaries in the family. So my father was a fighter pilot in the Canadian Air Force. my dad and my mom met on a Canadian Forces base as I think they're in grade nine together I should know this but my dad's dad was artillery and my mom's dad was mechanized tanks and they're on the base together met and so my childhood was spent a good chunk of it on the Canadian Forces bases in Germany where my dad flew the Starfighter the Widowmaker, the 104 and then finished off in Cole

which is the big base for the Canadians in Alberta, northern Canada, and he flew. He was the CEO of the 4-4-1 tackle fighter squadron, which was F-18s. And yeah, so I grew up around the military and played hockey as most Canadians do as young individuals. And that kind of came to an end at around the age of 18. And I think I was at a loss of direction. I always kind of had this plan to be a professional hockey player, but it's tough. I don't think I had the size and the chin for it.

But, and yeah, so I was interested in joining the Army. I think I mentioned on another thing. My first VHS tape that I ever bought was Hamburger Hill. And I watched that VHS tape until it was useless, you know what I mean? So I had this, yeah, this interest. Obviously, when we were in Europe on the bases, the Canadian. Airborne Regiment was there, so I would see the airborne around, see them jumping and that kind of stuff. So I was enamored with the idea of being infantry airborne.

But unfortunately, at that time, there wasn't a huge amount of opportunity for Canadians looking to get into the Reg Force military. What year was this, Joel? This would be 93, 92, 93. So, yeah, I was kind of, you know, lost of direction, maybe getting into some trouble, hanging out with around people. immature, I guess would probably be the word, trying to oppress the wrong people. Went to the recruiter and they said, you know, there's no reg force positions available right now, but what you can do is join the Canadian reserves, which is the militia. And the way the Canadian military was set up at the time as a third, I believe, of the

effective numbers of the military was militia and you would support the different. And the idea is if you get in, do your part once positions came available for reg. course, you would be top of the line. So I looked into that. I'd actually called the American recruiter, the Army and the Marine Corps, because the reserves didn't really, I just wanted to do it for real. Yeah, yeah. But at the time, I was told that it would take, you couldn't, as a Canadian, I had no family in the States. It would take a couple of years even to go through the paperwork process, if anything. So I joined the reserves. I did join a regiment that was attached to the Canadian PPCLI, which is their and we were jump tasked. So I did my basic. I did my battle school and the

next course would have been my jump course. And unfortunately things were changing in the Canadian military and they were looking to stop the jump tasking for the regiment. And I was in battle, I was in Wayne Wright doing my battle school and one of the NCOs mentioned that another NCO on a course had just come back from the rep. I asked the NCO what is what's the So it's the airborne regiment, the French Foreign Legion. So like most people, I was like, what? The French Foreign Legion like that actually still exists. Yeah.

Yeah, so I was young, impatient. I looked into it. And this is pre-internet, really. So there wasn't a lot of information on the Legion. And there's a couple books out there, notably Legionaire by Simon Murray. And I read that. And it basically depicts his time in the rep during the Franco-Algerian War. So the 60s, 62, 60s.

And I was just blown away by the, it's well written. It's an excellent story. If anyone's not read it, you should for many reasons. But there's the pooch goes on where de Gaulle decides to give Algeria's independence. The military in France, notably the airborne regents of the Legion. They're part of it decide that they're not going to have it based on some history from Indochina. They're going to jump on Paris and take over.

Anyway, it's a very cool part of it. history. But it was like an almost coup that happened. That's what exactly. And the word was putch, which is a German word for coup, but because of the influence of the German and that's the word that stuck. Yeah. So anyway, so I, um, I looked for more information encyclopedias. They had the old pictures of the rep. It was actually the Bep jumping in Indochina into the Mbem Fu. So I read up on that. And that was obviously the end of the French in Indo-China, and then that became, obviously, the U.S. issue following that's present. Can we take a second to talk about that? Because, you know, we've had a couple of people, I think,

well, we've discussed Vietnam before, you know, French, Indochina. But I don't know that we ever got into the history of, you know, not necessarily how the U.S. became involved, but the French is like the French participation in prior to that. Because the Legion, it's very important it's a very important piece of allegiance history and when when we went into vietnam we failed to learn the lessons that we should have from the french occupation and that's yeah history repeating itself that's i think that that happens to this day right yeah but yeah uh giamenmen fu was a valley and the idea was the french were going to draw out general japan the uh the vietnam um and the idea was to bring them into a pitch battle and take care of

the business. But unfortunately, the French didn't give them full credit for their abilities. And the Vienmen surrounded, it's quite a, it's actually, it's a large valley. And they surrounded the air, it's an old Japanese actually, actually airport from, that's what the origination of the Piemannin, it was an old airport from the Japanese during the war. But the French had the airports and they had built these compounds, these strong points around around the airport. And then the valley itself, the Vianmen came in and they dug in their artillery and basically just started, you know, bombarding the shadow of the French.

And the rep jumped in low level to try to assist things. There's a request for volunteer jumpers of the Legion. And in they went. And I believe the Americans provided some of the aircraft and they actually provided the parachutes. And they jumped in. And in the end, the French capitulated. And a lot of them were marched prisoners.

And, yeah, survival rate was, yeah, not great. But it was a huge, a huge moment in French history, a loss in a, you know, obviously a part on the French military. Certainly extremely, I mean, my old regiment of the rep, they were decimated there. And we wear the red Foulogier on our uniform, which is the honor that's the honor that. regiment was given for that. And if you read the book, my grandfather was actually flew in to

Gambam Fu about 10 to two weeks later, and he was there as a two I see. He was a Canadian draw at the time, and he was the two I see the League of Nations, so the precursor to the UN. And they had flown in to see the gradual withdrawal of the French and allowing the Communist of the Vietnam to take over, Ho Chi men to take over. So they were there just to make sure that the withdrawal phases were done properly. So he flew into DeMibufu. I didn't know this. I had no idea until after my time in the military. Oh, wow. Yeah. And he was blown away by that fact. Because, and that's, you know, I mentioned that the end of the book, is that

here is something I was drawn to the whole DMVU jumping in to your, your comrades' assistance, low level. You know that it's probably not going to be a good ending for you, but you do it. I found that. It's super honorable. And the fact that my grandfather had been there. I just thought it was an interesting, you know, coincidence. Anyway, so that was back to your, the question. That was my, I thought, you know what, I can't serve my own country. The idea of going over and serving in a foreign military and be able to jump for them just seemed like a neat idea. And, you know, France, having grown up, being, we, I spent

a lot of time in France, you know, during the winters, they had an exchange program where the, the Canadian military. My dad, myself, we'd go down and they would ski with French mirage pilots. And we'd go to Valdezere, which is a well-known ski resort, and they had a military skiing school there. So every winter, we'd be in the Alps, and I would be taught by French military skiing. Are you French Canadian, Joel? You speak French? Well, well, I'm not French-Canadian, but in the Canadian military system, all the schools, like the schools in Germany on the bases, they were all French immersion. So I started taking, yeah, Okay.

One up. So I had, when I joined, I had a good level of French. It certainly came back and they beat it into you. But any advice to anyone thinking about, have a good level of French. So yeah, that was, in short, that was the interest in the rep. You know, you're young, impressional. I just wanted to do something different. The options were limited.

So I was like, you know what, excuse my French, fuck it. I'm going. And off I went. And, yeah, joined in 19. So before we get into your experience, your recruitment and selection and training and everything, just before we move on from the historical aspects, can you tell us a little bit about why the French Farm Legion came into existence? Why does this thing exist in France? Why does it still exist to this day? Like, how did that come about? Because it's kind of been, I mean, there's a history of mercenarianism in Europe throughout European medieval history. But the, the, the The Legion is something that endures to this day. It's very unique in that regard. And the word soldier and mercenary are very similar.

It's actually a double translate, like a change of translation. But King Louis initially created the Legion to allow foreigners to do their dirty work in difference. So what they typically do is allow foreign soldiers or perhaps even people that were given prison time, the option to serve. And they would be shipped. They would never be on mainland France. They would be overseas in their different colonies. And that was the idea.

So you'd have French officers from St. Cyr typically overseeing legionnaires, which would be typically foreigners serving in the ranks. And off you'd go and it would be a tough existence. Now, Indo China, Algeria, and then those Indo-China, Algeria, Algeria comes to an end and now the Legion is basically brought back to mainland France. Present day and when I was in, it is an actual, it's a part of the French military. Same rules and regulations, pay grades, courses. It does keep its own distinct history and discipline and traditions, but at the end of the day, you are a part of the French military.

So same thing, all the officer are, you know, typically says here graduates. And a lot of the upper Epsilon officers that graduate for such a year will go to the Legion regiments. It's considered an honor. That is slowly changing because they have other regiments that are a little more, you know, switched on. But also like the, how would I say that year? Your livelihood, you know, the ability to be with your families is a little more comfortable outside of the business. It's very stringent allegiance. It's still very old school.

But, yeah, so basically, you are in the French military. So that connection. With the Legion, there's this idea of criminals and people on the run from their respective, you know, countries. And how was that true? You get a pseudonym when you join the Legion. All the. Was that true at one point in time?

And is it true now? Well, definitely, you know, back in the day, certainly there were some, you know, questionable characters that would join. And the Legion is always really a good indicator of the geopolitics going on. You know, what's happening. So, for example, post-World War II, the ranks were full of X, Vermar, and German soldiers. During my time, it was when the wall came down. So there's a lot of former Soviet countries coming down.

To this day, it's a mixed match depending on you. You get a lot of Asians and stuff. But yes, your typical person that would join back in the day was questionable type characters. When I joined, for example, they would take, there's one and 12 that they would select. Now, they've been doing this for a long time,

and they have the ability to pick and choose, and they're effective, but what they do, and they know what they're looking for. So when you come in, there's a variety of medical tests. There's an IQ done. There's a psychological exam done. And then there's a robust background check with Interpol to ensure that you're not wanted for any type of crimes or what have you that they find is not acceptable in their in their system.

So they have the ability to pick and choose who they want. What exactly they look for? I don't know. Is prior military service something they want? It depends. I don't know. But yeah, if you're wanted for something, you know. So that has changed.

Now they, you know, with its part of the, you know, being a modern day army, they basically choose the young man, and that's the thing, there's, you know, there's no few as obviously, the young man that's there who wants a soldier, he's there for the right reasons. He has the right attributes. He's, you know, physically fit and capable and they can mold them into the type of soldier they want because obviously the French do their, and the Legion do their things differently. But yeah, if you show up with that, with those odds, one in 12, 1 and 15, if you show up, you know, out of shape and you wonder for a questionable character type error in your past, you're sent back.

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So you, so you were considering the Legion and then, so then what happened? So I was, yeah, so I was doing the reserve thing. I was checking bags at the airport into the bottom of aircraft. And just, you know, in a shitty mood all the time because you're young and you want to get on it, you know, and get doing. So my dad was actually flying for a charter at the time. And I jumped into the years pre-9-11. So I jumped into the jump seat in the cockpit and we flew into Dusseldorf, Germany. That's where they're flying and said our goodbyes. And he shook my hand and said, you know, call us when he can and, you know, take a day by day.

Yeah, it was an interesting, you know, moment. I never actually talked to my, I actually talked to my dad about that day. We've never. Anyway, so I took a train down to Strasbourg and that's where I joined because the Legion has there are different recruitment depots through France. and that was the one that I was going to. I did the same thing as I reached out. They sent me a little packet with where you can go.

And yeah, I knocked on the door. I actually walked up to the door. So it was an old, you know, French military buildings and some of their concerns and stuff are like World War II. And earlier, right, it looked a bit dated from what I was used to. And wasn't a lot of stuff going on. And I got to the door and I was like, ah. And I walked across the street.

And there was a church, if I remember, they had steps there. And I sat there for a little bit of time more than hours. but just kind of contemplating, you know, here I am. I didn't really have a lot of options, but I was like, you know, this is quite the scenario I got myself into. And finally I just said, you know, enough, enough screwing around. And I went over and what was kind of stopping you at that point in time? Was it the five-year commitment?

Was it like the things you had read in the books? What was something your parents said? I mean, were they, you know, what kind of what was on your mind? You'd be honest. My parents didn't say much. They said, are you sure? I think they knew that, I wasn't happy with what was going on.

I wanted to do something. So I think they let it go. In fact, my grandfather, the one that had gone into the Mifu and dealt with, he, it's interesting, he was in the book, I mentioned his idea on the Legion changes. He had a preconceived idea of what the Legion was. And he said to me, are you sure, you want to do this? And I said, yeah, I, you know, I want to do this. Yeah.

So he said, well, if that's what you want to do, just represent your country well and go do it. So, and we discussed things later on. And I actually would write them from time to time kind of explaining what I was doing, what was transpiring. And he learned with me what, you know, the present modern day legion was like, well, for that period. But I think sitting across the way from the door, it was more just like, here I am. And I said I was going to do this and there's the door. But, you know, it's reality. It kicks you in the nuts.

And I have to do it now. So there's no turning back, right? Yeah. So it was just one of those. Yeah. So yeah, I went and joined. So what happened? I mean, you knock on the door, they open it up the door,

and there's like some crusty Sergeant Major standing there. Like, what do you want? No, it was, yeah, I knock and it opened right away. It was a corporal chef, which is like a master corporal. I think he was French. Big old, big old guy, you know, the simple big man, but he said, come in, nationality as a Canadian passport, showed my passport, and he said, what do you want?

I said, I want to join. Oh, you're sweet. And they take you into a room. And, you know, it was this room with chairs, a table, an old TV, and a VHS player, and about, you know, 20 different cassettes and one for each different language. So he threw in the cassette, and it was basically, you know, just kind of gives you a brief on the Legion, you know, in English. And the Legion, you'll fight. You're going to train. Yeah, it was pretty dated.

But the only thing I really remember is that, you know, they showed the rep jumping. And, you know, for me, it was at that point anyway, it was too late. I had no choice, you know. But, yeah, and once that was done, they asked you, you know, are you still, are you still interested in doing this? And I said, yep. So then you go into another office, I think it was a sergeant sitting behind an old, you know, typewriter from the Verdund days.

And he asked me the typical questions, you know, country and mother name, date of birth, all that kind of stuff. Why do you want to join? And then you sign a preliminary contract. And then you stay in that concern for, I think, a week. What did you say when he asked you why you wanted to join? I just said I wanted a soldier. That was my go-to answer, yeah.

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But it was just, yeah, matter-of-fact, sign, and then I got sent up to a holding area, which is like a barrack area, but it was very, you know, simple old school. And there was a handful of other people there. Romanians, a couple French guys, check, that kind of stuff. And then they would wait until we had a certain amount of people. And then we were, it lasted about a week. And then we were put on a bus and sent to another regular French army camp

where we were given a medical exam. And they went through the whole whole gamut looking in our teeth, bones, all that kind of stuff. And from that, they were able to cut the people that they felt weren't physically, didn't have the attributes or the, they had prior injuries, bad teeth was a big one and they would be cut. And then once we had a certain amount of number, we were thrown on a train and we went down to Obying, which is in southern France, just outside of Marseille.

And that's where the regiments or the oldest regiment, the premieres is, and that's their main headquarters in Obine. And once you get there, you join all the other recruits from all the different recruiting points in France. And they gather you there. they give you, you know, you take all your civies. And you spend typically about a month there and they go through the same thing. That's where you start all the different type of medical

examinations, the IQ test, psychological evaluations. They do the interpol background checks. So you're either doing that during the day or they got you cleaning the camp. They got, yeah, they just, you know, running around. And then from there, they picked their candidates. And as I said, it lasted about a month. And then those that are, picked and chosen, about every week or two weeks, a group goes to Castel, which is their training regiment by Toulouse in France, the Catrine Merre, and that's the training school. And you go there, and basic training is four months. So during this whole process of kind of this funnel, when did you learn what Appel was? When did that first?

Well, as I said, luckily I had a decent level of first. French. So I was able to understand what was happening around me. So appell is taught right away. They got the whistle. That's the very leasing. Everything started with, they blow the whistle, and then they yell the command. So it would be appell, and then everyone runs outside and gathers up. So initially, when it's at that point where they're doing the recruiting or whatever you want, you know, they have corporals there, master corporals that are kind of showing you the way. And then the onus is on about a third of the people that are trying to get in the Legion are actually French. So they put a lot of onus on them to try to help out. And then you'll get your little

clicks. You know, all the English speakers will be hanging out. You'll get all the slabs and the, you know what I mean? They all start to hang out, but you figure it out pretty early what Appel is. And so Appella, you do a head count, right? Or you count off? So it's a way to get the unit or the section together and count the effect of, make sure that everyone's present and accounted for it. That's the idea. And in the very beginning, I imagine there are guys showing up who do not know any French. They don't know the number. So what happens during that count?

How do the NCOs respond to them when they don't know their number? Yeah, well, at that point, nothing. I mean, discipline hasn't really, as I mentioned the book, we haven't seen the Legion discipline yet. Okay. So, yeah, there's Koreans there. There's obviously Russians there. I mean, French is not something that they rarely pick up on.

So there's a lot of confusion, but it's, you know, it's, you follow the group and you can figure out what's happening. It's when you get to Castel, when you start doing your basic, that's where you're not picking up the French. It's going to make things tough. And I mentioned the book is that we had a, a tall Brit who was X signals, as he said, reserve regimen. Anyway, we get there and it was our first appell and the corporate would come down the line. and the idea was you would number off one, two, three, in French, all the way down. And the idea was to always go to the same position so that you could just remember one number. But when the corporal got to, got to him, he didn't know the number.

So the corporal just gave him an open hand and slap right across the place. He was like, but I don't, you know, and the Brit was like, but I don't speak French. And I remember just kind of chuckling to myself. I was like, yeah, but it is the French foreign legion. that should have been expected. But yeah, it's tough not knowing the language. I was lucky that I did. It made my journey so much easier.

And yeah, that's why I mentioned beforehand, you know, if someone's going to go join the French, have a good level of French because it's just a nightmare if you don't. And if you don't pick it up quick enough, you'll fall behind and it's going to be tough. So what was Castell like and how long was that? process. That was that was basically boot camp or basic training for it. So that's that's your basic training which the duration of four months. It kind of has that typical training camp facility.

You know, it's got the big parade square and the company buildings around it and then the headquarters. But initially in the the Legion training phase for the first month you go to an installation which they refer to as a farm. So each company has a training farm. And typically that's what it is. It's an old farm house in the out in the outskirts in the farmlands and they refurbish it and set it up and it's your training facility. So you're there for your first month learning the Legion discipline and how they go about doing things. So that's your that's your kind of your your test. So there you're introduced to obviously appell what's required the traditions French lessons, God forbid the singing, the singing starts.

And then it's, and then at night marching. And then they're just, you know, excuse my French, they just start fucking with you, right? It is, it is basically done to show whether or not you want to be here, right? Right. Is this for you? Is it not? And that's where you'll start to see your first desertions, people running off. And it's, it's kind of somewhat expected.

They don't really care at the end of the day. they're doing themselves and the deserters doing themselves a favor. But it's the, yeah, it's the pressure's on to see whether or not you're here for the right reasons. And that's, you know, it's been done that way for a long time and for a good reason, you know, that some people are there for, you know, the nationality, perhaps, for food or for the money. But in this day and age, if you're out, you know, you're there to be a soldier, do you want the guy besides just there because. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's your, that's your first And then once you're completed the month at the farm, you do your march at the end and you

you receive your KEPI. So that's after a month at the farm, you do the March Kepi and then you go to some chosen area. A lot of times it's a chateau or something in the area and you're presented your Kepi. And then you are now a second class legionaire. And then as a group, typically it's about 50 of you in the in the group, you march in back to Kestel through the gates as a group. You have pretty strong feelings about the singing. Can you tell us about that, why it's important, what it, what it, you know, really what it is? Yeah, well, I mean, two things.

Obviously, you know, I've done my base in my battle school in the Canadian military. You know, our military system is based off the British system. It's very similar in how they go about soldiering. The French way was extremely different. And a big onus in the Legion, especially at the beginning, is this singing. So the French, sorry, the Legion march at a slow pace. It's 88 pace steps a minute. So it's, it's different.

It sounds easy, but it's actually hard to get it together. But a part of that is they have a song book, actually, but they have songs that you learn. And a lot of all those songs are historical, significantly historical based on the Legion's past, you know, into China, Algeria, and you have to learn together as a unit how to march in time, in tune, singing these songs. You know, you start off with one, you'll start off with two. And you'll be in the classroom actually initially learning, marking time, and singing.

And then we had, we had Sergeant Schmidt, who was this big German monster. And he would towards, you know, if you didn't pick, he would stand right beside you when you're singing. and if he could tell that you weren't, you didn't know the words, he would actually stand there like this with his hand in the air. That's waiting, watching you, right? I mean, even if you knew the words, just the, you know, you would screw up and you'd slow motion and then, you know, across the thing. Anyway, so I found that frustrating in that I didn't expect that or know that of the Legion.

I was kind of thinking, you know, we'd be out on the range learning how to the soldier. but in retrospect and once we got it marching together as a unit in tune it was it was actually it brought to you together it's a way of building cohesiveness and it has a part in its history and it's effective and it when you actually get it it's actually it's yeah it's kind of a neat thing but i just got yeah whatever i just i respect it but it just wasn't my thing but when we had to like you know on 14th so i've done 14th of July in Paris on one occasion with the rep where we march down and yeah it's you're proud you know it's there's the history and uh I I have nothing bad to say about it but I wasn't one about to

I wasn't one singing songs on my own yeah well are you expected to be jumping out of airplanes and shooting right yes yeah but you know you got you got to get there and the Legion has this way of doing things who am I to but yeah it was definitely a challenge but it it brings you guys together and if you're not picking up on the songs you get beasted right and like all basics they find their ways of making you work together and dragging along the weakest link yeah so and then you go back so after the month you go back to castell and you finish your your three months and that's where it kind of starts you start going to the ranges you start doing the more physical aspect of stuff the the training continues on french history

the singing singing never goes away but it's more soldier oriented and the idea is to prepare each legionaire to go off to the differing regiments. And when they get to the regiments, they have the basic skills and knowledge to continue training, depending on their unit's specialty. So what is, Joel, what is the Legion's mission?

I mean, are they just an infantry unit, an infantry brigade, or do they have a specific mission set? What's the expectation? Well, they all support different battalions of the French military. So, for example, I went off and joined the rep. So they are the Legion's airborne regent, but they're part of the French airborne battalion.

So there's regular French airborne regiments. The Legion has, you know, an engineer regiment. They have a mechanized, they have an infantry. And then they have a regiment over in French Guiana. Back in the day, they're no longer there, but they had one in Djibouti. So they all support the different battalions within the French military. Now, you keep calling it the rep, but it's actually the second rep or two rep, right? The actual...

Okay. It's just a... It's the 2eemois-Echartist. So 2 rep. Back in the day, there was a first rep. They were disbanded after the pooch for their involvement in that. But to the... And then there was a third rep in Algeria, too.

But now there's only the 2 rep that survived the history. And then it's just an act. It's just rep. for short, short, short, you know. For the, okay. Yeah, so, and the way it works for basic training is, based on how you finish, you can pick and choose which regiment you want to go to. So early on in your training, you will go in front of the captain,

they'll ask you, what regiment are you volunteer for? And then based on your, you're finished within the class, you can pick and choose and go. And then obviously, the lower down you finish, they'll start sending you to where they need to fill the gaps. So, yeah, the onus is on to perform well and get to where you want to go or they'll send you. And then, yeah, from there you go off to your regiments. So you finish the cast out, so you, the four-month basic training program, essentially.

Correct. And you said that once people finish that, they actually have the option to leave, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So after basic training, you're giving. a chance to call their quits and go back to the city world. After that, you're stuck for the five. I think within our group, we had a, you know, there's a hand, a dozen that decided it wasn't for them.

For a multitude of reasons, some people are just, you know, mentally it wasn't for them. Physically, a lot of people suffer physically. The French are big on running. They don't have the logistics support like some militaries. So a lot of stuff is with your feet. they're big on the obstacle cord and stuff. So depending on the type of person that shows up, some people suffered with the physical side of things or injuries.

Other people, it just wasn't what they thought it was going to be, or a lot just didn't pick up on the, you know, the discipline, the discipline was tough. It has changed since, but, you know, it's old school. If you're not towing the line, you know, you'll get a good knee to the gut or you'll get a good, you know, you'll rip off a corporal or you're you've really you know pissed him off he'll he'll give you a good beasting uh some people can can take that other others can't and again you know it has its has its place

but that being said there's the odd individual that took it to the to the next level and they went above and beyond and abused their their powers and yeah and so i finished and they wanted we had what they had in the training regiment was a they're called footfoot. So it was a training corporal but they were actually not a full corporal. They were just given that rank.

So typically it was someone that had finished basic training. They had the abilities and the language and they would keep them at the training school to be acting corporals. And they would do, I think, two or three courses and then they would go off and do their corporal course. In most leisure regiments, during my time, it was, you wouldn't, you wouldn't get your corporal's course or your rank

once completed around minimum three-year service, typically five-year service. So these people were really, you know, scooting the system. But some of them would take advantage of that new ability, and they would abuse it. And they wanted me to stay as a foot-foot. And when I was told that I, you know, I was like, you know, the only reason I, I joined the legion was to go to the rep. And luckily, my training, NCO, he could see that I was, you know, and they found a solution and I got out.

But yeah. Can you, the whole foot foot thing, I think that, I think that bears a little explanation simply because Jack and I both come from Ranger Regiment where there's this, people don't like, not like, but we have what are called imports, which are NCOs who come in, they didn't grow up in battalion, they came in. as an NCO from another place. And so they kind of have to earn their way a little bit more. And Footfoot, it's sort of the same thing.

What does Footfoot mean? Where does the word come from or the term government? And how are they treated? It's an old Arabic term from. There it was a turnkey. I think it's a Turkish slang name that was. So it's basically someone that's not, they have the power, but they don't deserve it.

And yeah, so these corporals, They wouldn't actually wear the corporal rank. They would have a sleeve on their their combats with the corporal rank. So you knew that they were a foot foot. They weren't an actual corporal. And they were disliked for a reason. And as you said, they hadn't earned their rank. They were no better than, you know, four months at Castell.

And there they were dishing out, you know, discipline to some of the guys. I never had any dealings with my foot foot who was a, I think he was Lithuanian or maybe Romanians because the Romanians because they come from a Latin language background, they pick up the French extremely well. That's very similar. So a lot of the, you know, they obviously have the language. But I never had any problems because I think he knew that I would knock him on his as asked me. Did a lot of a lot of guys did. And I certainly remember the face of my foot foot from our section to this day. And I always said my, you know, in my years when I was in, if I ever ran into him again, he was in trouble. And we actually, when you get to the rep, you're

training corporal meets you at the gate before you do your he's going to be your training corporal for the jump course and he'll go down the line asking if you're not just a first class because i showed up a little later with uh more rank you you go down he'll ask you are you a foot foot and yeah you are and so good times yeah exactly yeah so foot foot are once they get out to the world out to the unit at large uh yeah they're not really given that much respect you know I think most of them, to be honest me, most of them, I think, stay at the training. They'll go through the, you know, they'll get their corporals fast. They'll get their sergeants fast.

They'll stay in the training world. Or if they're wise, they won't abuse their powers. And then if they do get sent to a, you know, an actual regiment, they won't, they don't have enemies out there. But yeah, that was something I had zero interest in doing. And luckily, uh, I got through it, joined the rep. Let me get to a couple questions because actually that came up in one of them. So Alex, thank you very much for the donation. I was saying two rep versus JTF two.

Oh, man. They're two completely, two rep would be more like a range of battalion or, yeah, exactly. And it's hard to, I don't play that game. I don't really, I try not to play that game, but I would think soldier to soldier,

the type of person that you, the base of the soldier and the, the soldier and the rep and then the JTF. The end of the day we're all humans and we're given the opportunities and the training and the access to different courses and stuff. It's going to come from the same mold.

Different objective. The only thing with the rep and that's something that I try to bring up and it's a lot more mentally tough. You don't go home on weekends. You're not going home for Christmas. It's full on. You know, so you don't have that release or, and you're, you're in a controlled environment for a long periods of time.

And it, that can have its effects on, on, on people. So it's tough to compare for those, for those reasons. You know, you can go onto the range or go or go training or go on an exercise for a couple weeks. Slug it out. It's tough, but you know that you're, you're going to go home and see your girlfriend or your wife where you're hang on your friends and have a, have a night on the town, you know, and then get a week off, whatever. the rep you're in the you're humping the hills you're getting beasted on by your your corporal uh polish corporal who's about six foot five and he's mean and uh he doesn't like you and you're just coming back to more service probably guard and then more more shit right so it that has its uh that's effect so it's

yeah comparisons would i rather be in in the jtf than the rep sure i mean it sounds a lot more Well, and that's, I mean, in your book, it seems like almost every day in the rep is like boot camp. Being a parent can be really challenging. It's normal to feel uncertain about whether you're doing the right things to raise healthy and happy children. That's why Child and Family Resource Network focuses on connecting pregnant parents and those with kids under the age of five with free support services to help them build confidence in their parenting journey. Everyone deserves to have someone they can turn to for support with parenting. Visit child and family resource network.org today. Being a parent can be really challenging.

Child and Family Resource Network focuses on connecting pregnant parents and those with kids under the age of five with free support services to help them on their parenting journey. Everyone deserves someone they can turn to for help with parenting. Visit child and family resource network.org today. You know, yeah, I mean, no, but yeah, I mean, initially the key is to get, get to your section, soldier well, like any, any, I mean, I assume in the range of the same thing is those you show up, you pull your weight and you're not causing problems, you're not the weakest link, you kind of get left alone. And then based on your abilities, you'll start to find the way that's best for you. You'll get into units or different specialities that suits you as a person. And then, life is easier and you're doing what you enjoy and it's a but if you're not toying the line you're you are the weakest link be a fucking nightmare to rep um and that's and they will the onus will be even more so to give you a hard time because they don't want you to come back right that's when

you'll get the desertions or you get your leave and people don't come back because it's just not not for them and that does everyone a favor right so they'll they'll see the weak link and they'll put the pressure on for that reason because at the end of the day they don't want to get sent over an operation with a guy that they don't feel as well. Yeah. They'll put you in a Legion jail. Like they'll put you in jail for any number of things. I was going to ask Joel if you'd ever done any brig time because that's just like a right of passage in the Legion, isn't it? You know, I did get, I didn't. I was, we were, actually came home and leave when I was in the GCP and two of my friends came with us and there was an alert and they tried to get a hold of

me. And they had, they forgot to dial the zero. So they kept on getting a wrong number. So then they were like, oh, Struthers lied to us. And we got back to France in the book and we had missed the alert. So we got back to Calvi. We had to pass in front of the captain and then in front of the, well, my section captain and then the company captain for basically being AWOL. And the alert in the was stood down. I think it was a test alert, but we were given, I think I was given 10 days, but it had caught out a lot of people. So the jail was full. So I was house room arrest. So I got to stay in my room and watch friends in French. I paid the price. I did by a but yeah, in the rep, if you're late for a Pell in the morning or for whatever reason,

the regiment has a as a jail so they still they shave your head boule zero was the word for it and you spend your do it you do an eight kilometer run every morning with your rucksack and then they're basically doing the groundskeep for the regiment they're out painting rocks and doing whatever they have to do and yeah you would i would see the same faces more often like what are you doing like why would you come all this way just to be in jail all the time Just to be in jail. You also, you had, if you went out on the weekend or whatever, you, it wasn't until you'd been in for five years that you could wear cities, right?

You had to wear a uniform. And if you got caught out of it, you'd go, they'd put you in jail. So, yeah, in garrison, as a legionaire, you're not entitled to wear civilian clothes for five years. Now, if you're given long duration leave, once a year, you got two or three weeks. You could go, you couldn't leave France unless you went through the proper procedures to authorization to leave france, then you can wear civics, but garrison, you couldn't. And we had the teete de par michonne. So if you wanted to go out, let's say it was Friday

night, you wanted to go out. In the morning, they got this little piece of paper that you have to fill out with all the different information. You have to use a ruler. If it's not straight, they'll just rip it up your face. That goes to your corporal. And if he likes you, he'll sign it. If he doesn't, he'll say, you know, screw you and you'll rip it up. As long as you, you know, you don't piss him off in the day. It goes to the sergeant. He'll sign it. Then it goes to your section lieutenant.

If he's happy with you, he'll sign it. Then it goes to the company captain. And he just obviously signs it if the lieutenant has signed it. But so at the end of the day, let's say it's, it's 430 now and it's, you can leave the regiment. You go to your company duty office, and there'll be a corporal there and a duty sergeant. He will check your teacher, he'll give it to you, and then he'll check your uniform. and if it's not right, they'll say, see you.

So you get through that, then you go to the main gate of the regiment, and there'll be the duty sergeant there that's on duty. He'll do the same thing. He'll check your Tito Perminant and you'll check your uniform, make sure there's no stains on your Kepi, everything's right, and then he'll let you out. Same thing, if he's not happy with it, he'll fuck you off. And then when you're in town, you got the MPs that are driving around,

and if your uniforms are sorts, or you had a couple too many, many whiskey coax and you look like you're a bit tired that's it you're getting a you're getting a free drive back to the regiment and you're in jail so sometimes you really think about you know what do i want to go out that's amazing yeah that being said in korska calvary where we're based it's in the summertime it's uh it's the destination of your your holiday goers and you do want to go out so yeah um Andrew, thank you very much. How many legioners wind up going to the EMIA? EMIA. That's the question. I'm not, Andrew, if you can clarify that, what the, yeah.

I'm not sure. I don't know that acronym. And then he also asked him, what the hell is up with corporal chiefs, corporal chefs, corporal chefs to premier class, how do they compare to USNCOs? And they said, what is a foot foot? What's their deal? But we answered that. But can you kind of go over the ranks a little bit? Sure. So you join, once you come out of the farm, your second class legionaire. And then after basic, you get your first class legionaire.

I might have screwed that up a bit. But that's your basic level, private type of stuff. You will go to your regiments based on your abilities and how well you do. At a certain point, they'll send you on your corporal score. So I said typically three to five years, then you'll be a corporal. you'll come back as corporal you do that after a certain amount of time they will decide whether or not or ask you if you're interested in going the nCO route or they might feel that you're not really suitable for the nCO route and then you go more so the corporal chef route or you as an individual

might be happier with just being a corporal chef so a corporal chef kind of has the same doesn't necessarily have the same authority but they're they're similar to a sergeant so they're given the respect, their own mess, the pay is increased, and it's a little more of a cushier ride, but they're going to finish their career as a corporal chef. But if you go to the sergeant route, then it's you go off and do your sergeant's course in back to Castel, the training in its four months, and then it would be a sergeant, sergeant chef, agent, agent chef, and then the top of the tier is major, but it's the French. So after corporal, it kind of branched. is you can either go corporal chef. And is that more like a technical expert in your field,

not kind of leader? Or like, how does that differ than if you go sergeant? Well, it's similar, but it stops there. So if you're going the corporate chef route, you'll, you know, you'll be given the authority for certain things, like duty office, that type of stuff. Within the combat section, you're definitely, you know, given the respect. But you're not going to climb the ranks. You're not going to become a senior. NCO, that is the thing. Yeah. So for some individuals, the NCO route, NCO roots, not for them.

But also there's certain individuals where they don't really maybe have the attributes that are what the lesions looking for in an NCO. They're more corporate chef guy. They're capable, but they're just more of that personality where they're just happy being a, you know. Sure. No, it makes sense because I think one of the problems the US military has with its upper out type of mentality is you get somebody who is a genius.

with a machine gun or a mortar or a radio, they're great at their job. And then they get promoted to a leadership position, which they suck. And they look like they're not a good soldier, but they were a good soldier. No, you're right. Leadership's not totally, yeah.

That's a valid point. And yeah, as you said, the officers, they watch and see, it will all be based on your section route to the most of the governor's captain. And they can see over the years what your strong points are, and where you fit in their system.

And yeah, they'll kind of point you towards. So when you showed up at the rep and then the next step for you was the airborne course. Yeah, so then you do, yeah, exactly. You show up with the rep and you do, they call it a promo. And it's typically last about three weeks. So you do, I think we need seven jumps with two night jumps.

So you just go through the, you're given a small, there's a small building on the regiment that's there for the promo. Yeah, you get your jumps in. you learn kind of the you learn the rep song of course it's the first thing you do and uh yeah they show you you around you learn the the traditions and the rules and regulations of the camp itself of the do's and don'ts and once you're done your promo you're introduced to your the comment company that you're going to and typically everyone from the promo goes to the same company so we were all going to the first company um yeah we did her jumps join the first company and then you get

split up into your different little sections. And that is really where your life begins as a legionaire. Now you're a new legionaire in a combat company section. And now you got to start all over and improve yourself. And yeah. Now, can you talk about the companies? Because there are eight companies, right? Was that correct? No, there's five. I think there's five. You know, is there. Yeah. So in the rep, there's the first company, which is the company that I joined. So that's their specialty is urban combat and night. There's the second company, which is the mountain company. There's the third company, which is amphibious. And then there's the fourth company, which was sniper, explosive, and another. And then there's the Seoa, which has had mortars,

it had a reci, it had, you know, this was 20 years ago. And then the GCP, which I would get into later they were attached to the SEWA and there might be something else the SRR. Anyway, that was kind of a support combat company that had its different specialities. And then there was the fifth company, which was kind of the service battalion. So they would be there to support a lot of the, you know, if you were the transmitter for the CO, you'd be fifth company. If you were, you know, there as a specialty type person, that was the fifth company. I think since then they've added this company, which is, I think, desert, desert type stuff.

But it might happen. So you get assigned to the first one, which is urban. Urban, that's correct. Yeah. So first company, first section. I get introduced. My corporal is a ex-Pera Reg, Brit guy, that rake, good guy. And he basically, when I show up, you got to show up with a case of Kronenberg beer.

That is rule number one. I think actually the Legion owns part stake in Kronenberg. So they're very smart in their business. That's the rule. So you show up with your beer. If you don't, they just kick you. And then you got to go back and get your beer. But you show up and you got to give the sergeants a beer, the lieutenant, the corporals.

And then basically you're just, you start washing toilets and fucking around. But I remember Corporate just said to me, shut up, do your job. And you'll do fine. And that was the advice I was getting by a corporate from the rep was just, you know, tow the line and, yeah, you get it with it. Don't stick out, which is good advice, I think. Yeah. So I did 10 months with the first coming.

So we started doing, we went off early on and we did a, when they get a new influx of legionnaires, they go off and you do your urban combat course. So they do an internal one for the company to teach the newcomers, the tools of the trade. we went off and did a combat or our winter warfare ops command of course in France and yeah jumps we would jump every week typically and then there would be exercise you'd be on the range a lot it was it was good you know I enjoyed it it was nice to finally get there and start doing doing the job and learning and saying you know what I can I got this you know I'm I'm around some likely like minded individuals I dig it we're soldiering and

Unfortunately, there wasn't a lot of stuff going on, but you're always up for going on different, call it tournante. I'm not sure with English word, but you do tours overseas, so in Africa typically. When I was there, the guys were just coming back from the Balkans, but you're always heading over to either Chad, Central Africa, or if things are heating up in any of French influences, you would be potentially going there. but I was after about 10 months we were we were supposed to go to gabon France or Africa and I was doing a I was running I could run you know I think when I joined the Legion I was probably one I played hockey so I was you know I was kind of a heavier set kid maybe ate a couple of too many burgers and I lost a good 25 pounds basic so I could run you know I could run so I did all right running and they put me in these running um things with some of the other NCOs and corporal. And one day when we were done the race,

my sergeant said to me, why don't you try out for the, the GCP? And I had seen the GCP at the, when we were jumping. And they had showed up in this truck and they're all wearing jumpsuits. And it was a mixed match of corporals, corporate chefs, sergeants and the officers.

But they were free fall, right? So they're just more relaxed. And I remember asking my corporal, I was during the promo actually, who, you know, who is that? it's the cheap. I was aware of who they were, but I was not, I was obviously focused on just not fucking up and getting my job done at the first company. So I didn't really understand the dynamics behind who they are, what they do, and how do you get there. And so I said,

well, what do you mean? He said, well, you can just, you can volunteer to do selection. And if the lieutenant signs off on it, you go, you do selection. If they, they take you, they take you. So I passed in front of my lieutenant, and I asked, I asked for, um, approval to selection and there was actually a in our company um there was an individual he was south he's actually rhodesian uh graham pelham and he had left the first section first company and gone to the the gp and uh he had he had a great great name in the company and i actually one of the actually i think was rake took me to see pelham at the gp and pelham was just finishing i think his fifth year and he was actually going to go home he was done

And he gave me some advice and he said, you know what? If you can get anywhere in the rep, come to the, come to the GCP. It's the place. It would be a lot more enjoyable. So I took it as advice and I went in front of the lieutenant and I asked for permission to do selection. And then he approved. I went to the company captain. He was actually who had formerly been the captain of the GCP.

He approved it. I did selection. And yeah, I was fortunate enough to get to get through. At that point, I had a year and 10 months service. So the minimum rank in the GCP. So the GCP is the group commando parachutis. So what they are is each airborne regiment in the French military has a GCP team. They actually might have two or three, but it's a 10-man halo free fall team.

And they act in two components. They're either the pathfinders for the regiment. Or what they do is combine, they form the GCP group. So they can work together all the different GCP groups within the GCP teams within the group. And they support the CUS, which is the French Special Operations Command. So it's second tier SF. So you're either supporting your regiment or you're working with a group, supporting the costs for whatever tasking they have set for you.

So yeah, and minimum rank is corporal. So they sent me on my corporal's course at that point and off I went back to Castel. And I think I mentioned the book, I contemplated throwing myself from the train, but it would have messed up the uniform. So, yeah, so what was the corporal course like when you went there? Was it, was it different than the first time you were there? Yeah. I had to ask some of the guys what to expect. And one of them had said that there's the adjutant that runs one of the peloton's platoons, adjutant Maduraira, a Portuguese guy.

And he said he's an absolute lunatic. If you don't get him, you're good to go. So I showed up and on the board, I was under Miduraira's peloton. So the first thing you had to do was go into his office and present yourself. So in the, in the, in the legion system, you knock at the door and you ask for permission to enter. they say enter you go in you take your kepie off and you present yourself so it's typically you know your your rank name uh when you join company section all that kind of stuff there's a whole spiel anyway i totally fucked mine up and he yelled in me and said go out you know do it again so i had to go

out knocking the door permission on the way enter i did it again i screwed it up again and he looked at the sergeant beside him and said look at his dossier does it say he's a retard I know that's probably politically incorrect to say these days. He said it, so it's not on me. But that was the start to my sergeant or my corpus course. Anyways, he was an absolute lunatic. Majuraira, in all due respect, he was good at what he did. He was excellent at getting people to do things that they didn't want to do

and smile while they're doing it. But he had done the manhouse commanded course in Brazil. and I think it tweaked off some some things in the upper epistleon of his brain and basically he was always in the jungles of manhouse in the jungle. You talk about that a little bit in your book that they went through a really heavy sear course or prisoner course. I think it was, yeah, it was known for its tough prisoner war phase where it broke a lot. But he obviously enjoyed the share of it. But we were always, yeah, in some sort of manhouse command, of course. setting. But he, yeah, he, he ran a tight ship. It was basically, it was two months of, you know,

range work. And what they're doing basically is they're teaching how to be a corporal and a combat company. So they're basically treating you like the worst legionaires out there. So they're, your weapons are never clean. Your room is always a shit state. You suck on the range. You don't know how to do anything map and compass. Your drill is atrocious. And you're, you know, so they're always just beasting you trying to. And they're, and they're, getting you to work together. So it was actually, I don't have, I mean, it sucked, but I don't, it was at the end of it, we were proud of, and I had the, you know, fortunately I was able to finish first.

And like most courses in the, in the Legion, a lot of the points given for the final tally is based on physical ability. So I had, you know, I was able to run and do the coroner stuff. So I was able to get maximum points because I'm sure I didn't do very well on the actual, like, the written stuff. But yeah, I remember on, I mentioned the book is the final parade, the top finish, you bring the section to attention. You turn them and then you march them off the parade square in song. And so I finished first and there's my derivary there, obviously, you know, come to cabinet, CEO or the regiment and the regiment and the regimen and the guests and stuff. And I give the drill command to turn right, which should have been left. So now everyone's turned the wrong way.

And I can see in my peripheral vision, my deraira puts his hand on this like this. Being a parent can be really challenging. It's normal to feel uncertain about whether you're doing the right things to raise healthy and happy children. That's why Child and Family Resource Network focuses on connecting pregnant parents and those with kids under the age of five with free support services to help them. build confidence in their parenting journey. Everyone deserves to have someone they can turn to for support with parenting.

Visit child and family resource network.org today. Being a parent can be really challenging. It's normal to feel uncertain about whether you're doing the right things to raise healthy and happy children. That's why Child and Family Resource Network focuses on connecting pregnant parents and those with kids under the age of five with free support services to help them build confidence in their parenting journey. Everyone deserves to have someone they can turn to for support with parenting.

Visit child and family resource network.org today. I'm all flustered. So I get the guys going the right way. Half of them were laughing, right? And then we march off and I forget to make them sing. And then I could just hear my word, I love to write out of yell from the background. The fucking song, you know.

So it was, you know, it ended well. And yeah, it was, it was, it was a, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, It's a good experience, but they definitely beast you, as they do. Now, did they pin you at that point? Are you promotable? Were you on back to purple? I don't get my rank. So I was lucky when I get back to Calvi, the GCP, Calvi is the town that the rep is based,

named actually after Christopher Columbus, Calvies, his middle name. That's where he was formed. But the GCP is in Bungi, Central Africa. there's been a you know an uprising within the south africa or the um central african army and the french are there and our team is there with a company from the rep and then the cost is there and so they when i get back to de calvi i'm giving the message that i'm going to be flying to join them in bungy albeit i'm not gCP uh qualified yet in order to be a qualified command on the gc you have to have your level two command of course and then

your free fall course and then you're considered a qualified gCP team member so i had none of those i just obviously just on my so yeah i fly into bungy and uh we spend three months there during uh that and that's i got my rank when i was when i was there so it was given to me a couple months later so tell us what so tell us about bungy what was going on there it was uh uh it was yeah within the Central African Army, there was an uprising. So it's very, like most of it's very tribal. And there was basically the capital bungy had been split in half. So the half of the Central African army had kept one part of the city and then the pro-government forces, consider the good guys, had kept the other half. And the French have a base there. They certainly have a commitment to

assist the Central African. I mean, they have their independence, but the French are just there to kind of help and obviously do what they do, but they weren't involved per se. They were there to maintain order within their own interests, but also there's a large expat community in that, in the city, mining, oil and gas, that kind of stuff. In the event of a major uprising, they would be there to support or evacuate the expatriates, be it French, American, British, whatever. And this is a former French territory, I take it. So things were heating up. And one of the guys in the team was going off to do his course.

So I was just flown in to be a replacement. So you flew in. It was a DC-9 and we landed in Bungi, the airport. And the door opened up and it was my captain, Captain War. And I was the only one to get off. The aircraft was going off to on to Chad, everyone else in the plane was going to shout. I was the only one to get off. So I had my dressed uniform on, my Kepi, my backpack, and I go down the stairs and the airport was all black.

There was a VAB, which is their armored vehicle with 20-millimeter cannon driving, you know, a loose circuit around the D.E. 9. And, you know, there's traces going off in distance and the odd mortar thump, and then just the smell of rotten vegetation and garbage and the heat of Africa. And that was my introduction to. And I just remember. all my senses were just, you know? And yeah, it was a neat, it was a neat feeling. It was exciting. I remember that to this day.

It was just that here I am. I'm a young soldier. I've never been in a conflict area. And just the atmosphere was very different. But at the same time, I do recall I was more anxious at the fact that I'm the new guy. I'm joining a team that's been working together. They're all obviously members. and I'm the new guy.

I don't have the courses, so I got to watch my back, right? So the captain basically, so I get off the plane, and the guys are all there in the back of the Valorah, which is a truck. This is kind of an open truck. And they're all in their,

the combat year, and there I am with my Kepi, and I just felt super out of place. And anyway, they take me back to our camp, and then the captain just basically pulled me aside, said, listen, you know, you're here. It is what it is, just watch and learn.

And, yeah. Was the team, I mean, not only were you not qualified, but you're also sort of a junior ranked guy at this time with not a lot of time in. How did they treat you? Did they accept you? Did they kind of try to train you up? Did they guide you? Well, part of selection. I think selection was for me, it lasted three weeks. And it's typically a month, the selection phase. And what they do in the GCP selection phase is once you've gone through all the physical tests, the range tests, all that kind of stuff. stuff, they will throw you into the team in exercises training. You'll go into the, you know, onto the range with them. You'll do house clearing. You'll do some repelling. You'll do, and they're trying to see whether or not you have also obviously the abilities, but do you mix within the team? Do you have the personality? Are you able to pick up what they're teaching you? That was a big one. So they're teaching you their tools of the trade per se, and are you able to

drive with the, with the team you have the right. So at that point, a lot of the guys I knew from selection, albeit short, but they knew who I was. So I think, you know, I don't know, but I was, obviously I made the team, so I must have done something right. So I was accepted. And they knew, I mean, my personal, I wasn't gobby. I'm not a huge talker. So I just kind of shut my mouth. There was, in particular, there was two Anglophones. There was Corporal Brooke and Corporal Chef McGuire. And they basically took me to the side and said, hey, you know, here's the deal. This is what you got to do.

I got myself into shit right away with a French sergeant. I didn't present myself as you're supposed to. And it was a difference between a combat company and the GCP, where you don't talk to a sergeant in a combat company unless he approaches you and then you do. But there I should have shown up and presented myself to all the NCOs. And I didn't. So I was right away, I was in the shit.

So they kind of took me to them and say, hey, you know, Straders, we get it. You know, you don't, these are the rules. This is how you don't create waves. and these are the guys you look out for. And then they threw me, they kind of put me with Corporal Chef Lascoski.

And I mentioned him here in the book. Lascoski was Vietnamese descent. So his, that's a Polish name. So his father was a Polish legionaire in Indochina. And had met, that would be his grandfather, had met a Vietnamese lady.

And so he was in the rep, French, but look, Vietnamese with a Polish name. So he represented all the history of, yeah, and he was a good, he was a good fucking soldier, Leskoski. I had a lot of time, I still have a lot of time for him to this day, and he did extremely well. But he kind of became my binom. And binom is a word they use in the Legion. It's you always work as twos. And that was something that was drilled into us during basic, too, is they would a lot of times put a French speaker with a non-French speaker or a stronger candidate with a less stronger candidate and you'd work together and try to tag along or drag along the less capable and you were responsible for them for meeting the grade.

So he was my binom in Bungi and so when we would go out and do stuff, I was just following him and watching and learning. Yeah, basically. And what were you, what was your mission in Bungi? What were you primarily tasked with? Yeah. So initially we were there just to be present. And if there was a requirement, we would evacuate the expatriate personnel.

Or if any French interests were at risk, the embassy, Milica Camp, some other stuff, you would be there to support. When I got there, things were starting to heat up. So we started looking at the requirements in order to get the people out. talking to people living in the different neighborhoods, advising them that were there in the event they needed assistance and or if things got dire, this would be the SOPs to get them back to the airport and flown out. So there was that set up.

There was a lot of, you know, wrecking. And then we were training on the side. So, you know, I think for my purposes, we did some patrolling so that I could kind of get into the mindset with the guys. I was driving the vehicles too. And then as it says in the book, you know, they started, they started to have contacts with some of our, the Legionnaires doing patrols. And so we'd be called in support.

And they started pillaging the authorities' buildings that were on the pro-government side. So known officers or government officials that, so at night they would come and they would pillage their homes, theft, all that kind of stuff. If there was, we would be called. And that was obviously in the book, that was my, I think my son. second night, that's where we had my first kind of introduction to it. Initially, it was just dealing with the unrest. We're losing your audio a little bit. I'm not sure if it's the mic.

Is that better? Yeah. My bad, yeah, sorry, pulled the cable. Where did you lose me? When you said they were pillaging their houses and then. Yeah. So, yeah, so they were the, they called them the mutineers, so the mutineers, but basically the non-pro-government side of the military were pillaging a lot of the pro-government officer

sides or government officials, their homes at night in the different neighborhoods, and we would be called to deal with that if required. And then obviously things started to heat up, and at a certain point, there was a French delegation, they were in a staff car, and they were sent to no man, it's called PK0. So it's kind of the line that broke up the city between the pro and the anti-government forces. And there was a meeting between the French and the anti-government officials. And when they were driving away in their staff car, they opened up and killed one of the officers. And seriously, when the French were driving away, the guerrillas opened up on them. So at that point, the French said that was it. And then

as I say in the book, at two o'clock in the morning, we start cleaning the non-government side of the city. So, yeah. So the three months there had its different phases from just, you know, standby. And then obviously as things changed, and it was on a more aggressive type of aspect for behavior. In what, so initially the French didn't really want to engage the guerrillas as, you know, the sort of direct. action. When they attacked the French delegation, did the, I mean, did the French just say that the gloves are off and you guys go do your thing? I think, obviously, you know, I'm just a newcomer. So the, the politics, the stuff going on the background is, you know, beyond my pay grade by any means.

But you could sense it, being there on the ground, you could sense the momentum of what was happening. I think the French initially, they, they, they're there, they're neutral somewhat in that they're allowing the government to figure out their own problems, right? It's their country to deal with it. But obviously, based on whatever's happening in the background, as I said, above my pay grade, there may be assisting in certain areas or watching, and then depending on what's occurring, they're going to start providing assistance with what makes sense to them. But obviously, when the French officer was killed, for them, that was enough. And then with the cuss, we cleared the rest of the city. Yeah. And that was,

this is my introduction to Africa. I'm obviously never been, you know, a young man from, from Canada. This is all new to me. It's a huge learning curve, obviously soldiering, first kind of, you know, combat and just the whole environment. So I'm watching and learning, but even I could sense the change in the atmosphere of the city and what was transpiring. So, yeah, it wasn't. When you say cleared the city, what did you guys start doing there? And did you engage the enemy? How did that play out? So initially before the incident where the staff card was shot on the officer was killed,

I mentioned that PK zero, which was no man's land. And the mutineers, they would come up to PK zero, sometimes cross over. And they were, you know, there were some, you know, they were pillaging. There was rape going on. They were shooting their RPG sevens and some warders trying to hit, you know, government forces, but they would obviously be off target. And civilians were starting to pay the price, unfortunately, as they do in that part of the world. A lot of times we would be set up OPs or we'd be on PK0, just waiting, hoping that they

would come and try to fuck around and then deal with that. So that was kind of my initial involvement. and then we had an O.P. And we had across PK Zero, there was a bridge, Pohn Jackson, and the mutiniers had a bunker and a building that they were using. So we were watching that, and we had, I think, a sniper set up in an adjacent building, and we were just basically watching.

And once the French military officers were being killed, and they decided the French military that they were going to clear the rest of the city, that was initially our country. our objective. So we took Poln Jackson and then we were going to push through to a certain point and stop. So that was initially what transpired. And then obviously once the French pushed onto that side, a lot of them just turned and fled into the jungle and went back to their origins, the villages and stuff. And we spent a little bit of time trying to source certain individuals that were known to French, in particular the ones that were responsible for killing the officer.

and but to be available. There was a lot of us. Well, on that note, Joel, a slight sidebar. You know, the United States back in the 1950s, we had something called the Lodge Act that Henry Cabot Lodge passed, where we brought in a lot, a lot of foreigners directly into the United States Army, people from Hungary, people who were German, people who were in all these Eastern European countries,

countries, Latvians, Ukrainians, and made them part of the American army. And they served in U.S. Special Forces. They served in, you know, other capacities. And it was something that was a huge boom for us from an intelligence perspective, that we had all this, you know, indigenous capability in the ranks. I have to think that the French Foreign Legion provides a similar function for France that you have people in that unit from literally from Japan to Ghana. That must give the French a huge leg up when you go into some of these parts of the world. Definitely. And yes, 100%.

But also just the way of doing business, the Legion, they're sent to an area. They're given a task and it's done. There's no questioning orders, whatever. and the type of soldier and the setup is that you have minimum logistic requirements and it's just it's easy right i know for example when the french went into molly the americans were very interested in the in how it was done just based on the limited amount of logistics that was supporting the train behind it you know but yeah 100% um having that the different nationalities within the indelies it certainly helps um especially with the language Barry, anytime you run into any type of situation.

There's always someone in your section that speaks to language or knows, you know what I mean? It's definitely a helpful trait. Yeah. And I remember there was the, we drove by the Canadian consulate. And initially when we were doing, you know, just trying to let people know that we were out there. And if they needed assistance, they could be, they could reach us. Or if things got tired, we would come and assist.

And I walked into the Canadian consulate with, you know, my full kid on. and I remember the consular came out and the look on their face was just like, and I asked if I could apply for a Canadian passport. Yeah, I didn't get one, but I left our number and said, you know, if they needed assistance, definitely help us out. Or we could help them. Joel, I'm going to get to a couple more questions. And then I actually want to ask you about your first firefighter,

because I thought that sort of what you went through during that, and sort of your internal process was very interesting. But Andrew, thank you very much. What's up with the jungle training course? In Guienne, actually, I never did it. But it's just the French commando course run by typically the Legion, 3rd 3rd ERI down there. And it's just, I think it's just a tough go.

You know, there's lots to be learned, but there's not a lot of pampering and you go down there and you get it done and you suffer and there you go. You come out, wiser man. Thank you very much, Brendan. Did you ever go to the Pacific New Caledonia or French Polynesia? And then he says, great talent as usual. Did Jack get my email, BG actual? Negative for me. I did not. You did not go to the Pacific? No. Okay.

Yeah, I'm not sure about the email. Okay. We'll look into that, Brennan. Hammer Nails, thank you very much for the donation. Ian, thank you. How did you like the FMAS, the FAMAS, overall thoughts? Yeah, the FAMAS. I mean, we had the, you know, leaving the Canadian Reserves, we had the M-4. I thought the FAMAS was, initially, it seemed, it was weird looking to me. but it's short so for house clearing for jumping it's definitely attaches to the side of your rig nicely it's robust it doesn't you don't get a lot of stoppages it's 5-5-6 but yeah no it seemed to be a trustworthy weapon I came to respect it and yeah they've since moved on to the the HK but I think for the time that it was used and

yeah I had no issue with it. As a left-handed shooter, did you have issues with many of the weapon systems? No. I mean, the FAMAS, you can switch it back and forth. The only, I did my tiered elite course, which is kind of like there's two phases to the sniper course in the French. So I did the first phase and you use the FRF2, which is their sniper weapon, and you can only shoot right. Is it a bolt action? Yeah, it is, yeah. Okay. So I had to shoot But you know what? I'm kind of one of those weird ones.

I'm left-handed, but right-eyed on it. Okay. Oh, God. Yeah, exactly. I don't usually admit that to whatever. So, you know, once, initially it felt odd, but it didn't really bug me too much. I wasn't the greatest shot, really anyway, but yeah, I got the job done. Alejandro, thank you very much.

Does Joel still drink Cronenberg? did he do a rotation to Djibouti or do the CCAP or do do the CCAP course there no I'll drink cornerberg for sure it's not my go-to but it's a good beer I didn't go to Djibout they actually when I asked when I was getting out that was the offer that I would go down and be a training corporal on the course in Djibout and I was actually considered it but ultimately I didn't I wanted to fly. Yeah.

Right. You started the helicopter, Seth. Thank you, Andrew. Were the Bordell military de Campagna still a thing when you were in? Yeah. When we go to the Bordelles, yeah, it's an interesting topic.

When we were in Chad, there was the Rose DeVon, which I get into in the book. And it was basically a, a little bistro like a bar that was on the river outside of the camp, but during the week, Legionnaires could go there. It was outside of the garrison,

but they could go there without a tito parmichon, and there was a bus that came back and forth, I think at 2 o'clock in the morning would shut down. And there was local girls that would work there. Private contractors, you know, military had nothing. However, for them to be in that bar, they had to have a medical inspection from one of the French military doctors at the hospital.

I love you, France. And for anybody who doesn't know what that is, we'll let you look it up so that we don't get a channel strike. The thinking was you got legionnaires in Africa for a large point of time. They're going to find the extracurricular activities that they want to find. So be smart about it, provide the auctions where they're not put at risk. And they're not directly involved, but they're just ensuring that their people are looked after.

Yeah. So yeah, and we ended up being the military police. Because some of the boys, some of the guys were getting into a bit of trouble, you know. And I'll be honest with you, I saw two of the ladies get into a fight over someone, and I've never seen a harder fight. They took their tasking extremely seriously. But yeah, that was my, the only time that was really. Yeah. Thank you. Alex.

Do you think other nations like the U.S. or U.K. should have a foreign Legion equivalent? And what was your favorite meal you had in your travels, like wherever you were, if there was a particular one? So the first question, do I think other nations should have a similar setup as a Legion? Well, I mean, the Spanish do. I know the Americans were looking to buy the Legion when Algeria, during the Pooch, when that was coming to an end and France gave Algeria its independence. There was serious consideration of buying the Legion. You know what? I think this day and age, that was the thing too for me, like two parts of that answer is, you know, for France, there's obviously the historical

connection between Canada or France. So for me, it wasn't sure I'm serving a foreign country, but at the end of the day, we have a lot of similar connections, beliefs, and at the end of the day, we're helping humanity. It's not like we're out, you know, taking over a gold mine or something, you know, that's typical taking over Papua New Guinea. If you have, I don't know, I mean, if you have young men that, or young men and women that want a soldier and they don't have the opportunities to do so where they come from and they're capable and willing, why not? I think it serves a good purpose. Yeah, I mean, it's tough. I mean, I think we run into that. We see that this, I mean, we, especially in the States, I mean, you guys have been at war for a long time, and it has its effects on people.

And some people don't necessarily want to go back anymore, and they do. And it's, you know, it's tremendous. Yeah. You have people that are willing and want to. Why not give them that opportunity? Well, and it definitely helps in terms of cultural understanding cultural relations when you have people, you know, from other cultures. Andrew, thank you very much. the ambassador is a fascinating documentary

filmed with hidden cameras in Bangi, is a Bangi, Bangui? Bungi, yeah. Bungi. About crooked dip smuggling blood diamonds out. A French foreign Legion vet is in it. Oh, yeah, I'm not familiar, I'm sure. Yeah.

And then... I certainly was not involved in any type of my... Blood diamond smuggling. And butsuts, are the rumors that Legionnaires, thank you very much. And are the rumors that Legionnaires sustain high casualties, but just do not disclose, true or not? No, I think in this day and age, I mean, it's last week two young Legionnaires were killed in Mali. It's, they're a part of the French military. It's put out there in the media. Yeah, it's, yeah, there's no, there's no smoking mirrors.

It's all. You can't cover that stuff up in this day and age, especially Western democracy. so like we can't do it. So you're in, you're in, uh, Bagi. And you guys have taken on a more aggressive stance. And this is really your, this, your first time seeing action. Can you tell us about your first firefight? Because I thought something interesting happened there. So it was my second night there and, uh,

where came over the radio that there was a, uh, a village by the, uh, so off we went. And, uh, we got out of a vehicle short, about a block short. And at that time, we had, you know, this is 96. So we had actually decent night vision. We had the latest stuff that had been issued. So it was the duel, which wasn't bad. You know, most of the most point everyone had the mono ones there. So we had within the, within the team, we either had the FAMAS with passive laser

or the MP5. And then I think I had the shotgun or the FAMAS, but whatever. There's a shotgun in the team for breaching. And then there was one sniper that had the FRF2, but I think he carried the MP5 in support until he was needed. Anyway, we stopped short, and then as we approached the building that was being pillaged, the two lead guys in our team, Lesko and another individual, they basically walked up, were coming up to the front of the building

when one of the new nears came out, and he just basically, you know, went full auto with his AK, and it went down the road, and then Lascoe and the other Legionaire return fire and the meetinger just basically went into the building and then they opened up from the inside so we basically returned fire and then captain row basically said you know form a former printer and it was a bit chaotic so that was that was my first kind of obviously fire fight

so my recollection was just me i initially returned fire but then it was it was confusing as in who's what and who's where. And then at that point, Raul, the captain is yelling his orders, and he's trying to maintain some sort of order and get us into a defensive circular position based on when we were a position. So then I'm just trying to figure out

where he's telling me to go and what to do. So I'm given my spot to go. I find a spot that seems appropriate, and then I'm given my arc. At that point, part of the team went into the building and the, I think it was four of them, they had rushed out the back

into the elephant grass behind the building. And the lights were turned on in the building. So right now, boom, all the lights come on. Night vision, obviously, done. Your night vision naturally from your eyes are done. But whatever. I just remember my heart beating, coming out of my chest,

my ears from the, obviously the firefight, and then just, just trying to make sure I had my wits about me on who was where and who was what and then so I'm basically sitting there things are kind of you know now it you know everything's kind of slow motion now things kind of coming back to to normal time and I'm looking at my arc there's lots of chit chat going on yelling and then in the bushes I see movement and I'm like, you know, typically what fuck's that, right? So I look and I'm watching and I'm trying,

obviously my eyesight's not great because of the whole night vision to light and stuff. And I'm trying to focus. And I change my position and I take a bound and I find another point of cover, but I'm a little closer in. And I think I can see someone beside a tree hunched over on his knees. And I'm looking and then I'm trying to figure out whether or not is that one of my teammates or is that the end? So I'm trying to figure out and I'm at that point that is my main concern. So I get up and I'm you know my weapon at the ready I take three or four steps

towards and then I can make out that it's an AK in the guy's hand. So it's it's definitely one of the the meet withers. And I'm kind of at his seven o'clock so I'm at his mirror. He can't see me and he's just basically hunched beside a tree not moving. And so I just basically walked up and I was about three feet back and then I said, Ushpa, which is don't move. And then I yell, captain. And he's like, what? I was like, come here.

And he comes over and he just had a look of complete fucking shock. And he basically just kicked the guy in the face as hard as he could. And then he was right on the side. And then I helped we hawked him. We recovered his gear, Hocktime, we threw him the back of the vehicle and then secured the area. And once all of a sudden done, we returned that individual to the Central African police. And they eventually, I think he was shot. They considered them just common criminals in that part of the world.

Africa. Yeah, exactly. We didn't, we weren't there to witness that. But basically they were considered criminals. And that was the SBs that we had to hand them over the place. The next day we returned and two of the guys were they were found dead in the grass. But after the, when we got back to the camp, the captain obviously pulled me in the side. And we discussed perhaps my choices and how I went about doing what I did.

You know, I could have been maybe a little more aggressive. But in retrospect, well, he's right. But my concerns were valid. And then my thinking after all, you know, thinking back is did I necessarily need to use lethal action? I wasn't out to kill someone. That's not why I joined the French Foreign Legion. I just wanted a soldier. At that point, I had up on him.

He wasn't a risk to me or to anyone. In the end, the result was right, but I could probably have gone about it better. But I would have my opportunity to learn my trade and do better. So it was a learning curve for me. Right. But, you know, it is what it is. And that was my, and that was the second night we were there. So I was, which wasn't a bad thing because we were thrown into the mix.

And then already I had caught myself, you know, a guy or a prisoner or whatever, I'm in here. So, you know, granted, it might not have been the best technique, not something you're taught, but it got the job done. The reason I like that story or you're telling of it is simply because I think for a lot of people who've never been. in combat. They don't understand the uncertainty that accompanies combat sometimes. Just not only the fog of war and confusion, but our own self-doubts that kind of arise, like, am I seeing something and I'm not seeing something? Is this a good guy? I mean, troop identification has come a long way, but there's always still that kind of, because if you make a wrong decision, he might shoot you before you shoot him, or if you make the wrong decision, you might shoot an ally or an innocent person.

It's a very challenging situation. So I like that you approach that in the book and talk. talked about it. I appreciate that. Totally foreign. I mean, a week ago, I was in Castel getting, you know, beasted because my locker was in shit state, albeit it was perfect. And then now I'm in Bunky, Central Africa, looking at a guy holding his AK. So, you know, it was a huge, you know, culture shock, learning curve. And yeah, as you say, you know, the fog of the fog of war, really. And, you know, whatever, lesson learned. But, yeah, the result was, it was right. So then you guys had a larger objective.

I guess that was before things went to help. But then after things, you guys had a larger objective, one of the guerrilla rebel OPs. Exactly. Pone Jackson. So we had, I mentioned that we had that O.P. kind of overlooking it. And the rebels had, there was basically just a dirt.

There was P.K. Zero. So no man's land. And then an adjacent road that went old dirt road, a small bridge. And they had barricaded that with, burnt out vehicles and then they had a home that they were using and then little bunkers that they had built as protective for the for the building and they were using that coming and going and when the French decided we were going to clear that half of the city that was our objective

so the costs we're going to fly in with the pumas and and take the main power station that was actually on the non-government side. And basically our sign or our signal to go was going to be a Puma, a cost Puma helicopter with a 20-millimeter cannon that was going to fly over and then start giving orbiting covering fire. And that was our go. So we were given, we were at this OP and the captain told us to get together. And we had some aerial photographs that they had taken with one of the Jagars.

and he basically briefed us up on the on the task that night and what it was is that we had two VAB armed vehicles or sorry one VAB armed vehicle and then two PICTS which are basically Renault jeeps non-arm or just a typical mash but a little more you know cheap but a little more recent and we were basically going to clear point Jackson and the idea was that the VAB would lead the way the pay cuts would fall right behind the VAB would have a 50 Cal and the VAB would hit the bridge, knock the vehicles out of the way, stop short of the building, provide covering fire with a 50 Cal. I was to drive the set the first P-CAT behind the VAB. I would break left and the guys

in my vehicle we were going to clear the building itself and then the second P-Cat would go left too but they would clear the bunker to which would be at our rear. That was the idea. So we were briefed. up on the operation, I guess, the op, and told to get our kit together and get squared away and stand by for the Puma. And so we all got, you know, got our gear together and I was sitting in the P-CAT. And I had beside me an adjutant, L-Y-D, he was, you know, at that point probably had 12 years in the Legion, been in the section for a chunk, and he was Moroccan French. And then I had Tessaniere behind me. He was on behind and he's French. He'd been in the in the team for

quite some time decorated. And so my my thing was here I am the junior guy to the team. I don't know shit. I ain't done shit. And here we are. We're getting this opportunity, which doesn't happen. You know, this is pre-9-11. This doesn't happen very often. And that's exactly what Adjyn L.D said to me. He said, hey, Joel, like, you know, count your blessings by this doesn't happen all the time you know but my focus was on just doing my job and not not screwing up you know um at that point still and i think as i mentioned the book i heard that puma way before anyone else i certainly think i did i could hear the wop in the distance and that was our and then uh yeah off we went the um the vab start to diesel turbo and you can just

smell the and i just remember the door it was like a bay door that would open up and out he went he had the turbo going and then just driving behind it as close as I could and then when we came to the right turn for the straightaway to the bridge that's when Captain Raul he was on the 50 cal he just opened up and the 50kal he could smell it and then it nailed obviously at speed we nailed the bridge and the the VAB hit the vehicles and then I took a good hit to the the side of the PCAT and it was it really wanted to drag and I was able to draw and then stop short, I basically stopped where we had to stop.

And the next part of that task was, I was going to dismount with LID. And on the FAMAS, you can put an AC-58 anti-personnel grenade. So it basically goes on the rifle itself, and it shoots. A rifle grenade. And the idea was we were going to put one each through the windows

and then go and clear the building. So I had mine set up already, and we also had a spare from us in the front of the, the P-CAT if anyone had an issue. And I got out and in the rush of everything, grabbed the wrong one. But everything was in slow motion that I had enough time to realize, fuck this thing doesn't have an AC-58 on it.

Grab the right one. And I actually got my 58 off, you know, maybe a second after LIDEs. And I was a bit short. I could have probably taken three or four bounds more to get maybe a little more on the target. But it hit the corner of the window and it blew through. It was just brick anyway.

And then we cleared it. But they basically, as soon as they saw that 50 cal come and they turned and they ran, right? So we cleared it. Everything was fine. And then I had taken, I think I hit a part of one of the carcasses from the vehicles. And I had a flat tire. And that's what that hit was in the drag. So I was left behind with Chucker Line, which was a, we had a Romanian corporal chef who was our IT photographer guy.

went on later in his career to get the Legion of Honor. But nice guy, smart, and he stayed back with me and the Peket and give protection. I changed the wheel, being the rookie. And the rest of the team continued down the avenue to clear further down. We had a stop point to go to. And, yeah, so I changed the tire as the Puma was flying around, giving some love with its 20-mill. And then, yeah, and then, as I mentioned in the book,

start we drive back to join the team and we're coming right a crossroads and uh as i'm passing the crossroads one of the french regular infantry marine vab 20s on one of the other instructions in their zone that they had must have mistaken us for or just disoriented us for being uh for the mutants and that's thing is the the the central african army obviously has all french equipment right so they had similar vehicles and they uh they put a 20 millimeter round right across our bow as we were driving through the intersection. Yikes. Yeah.

And I just, we actually, I looked at Chuck Erlang, he looked at me and we both laughed, but it was obviously just a, you know, we sped through in it, but it was, yeah, it was a close call, but I think it was just a nervous laugh. Like, you know, and, yeah, we sock short. And then, yeah, in the morning light, the locals started coming out. Some of them that had suffered the, you know, the friendly fire stuff from the lost rounds and whatever. And that was kind of, obviously.

the adrenaline, and I mentioned the book, this was afterwards, I have the, you know, a pretty good adrenaline dump. But at that point, we're all keyed up, and then it's stop, and then you can kind of feel your body, and just go, ugh. And then I saw the locals come out, and then some of them had suffered, obviously, you know, from, from what was transpiring. And I felt, I remember feeling bad for them. But the French, to be honest, the French are great. They, they're all dealt with. They sent out French military ambulances with the medical staff and looked at. And I looked at, after the locals and did what they could. And we basically were sent back to the Pont Jackson

to clear the buildings a little more. And we found some weapons and stuff. And yeah, and then just stood by and that was it. So that was my kind of first, I guess. Fascinating. So how much longer were you guys there? What else transpired while you? Yeah, so at that point, we were probably two thirds away.

We were there three months, or I was there three months. So that's about two months in. and I remember I went back to the back to our camp we were given two days just to you know chill out and that's where I wrote my grandfather you know and he had he had retired a three-star my mom's dad he had actually been awarded the DSO by Montgomery on the field for yeah and then got got the actual medal from King George at Buckingham Palace so he was yeah he was my he was my childhood here by all means and a nice man, you know, an awesome grandfather.

So he was the one that I mentioned that had gone into Niam Vimphu and didn't really understand the Legion. So I wrote, I didn't sleep that night, obviously, and I just, you know, I wrote a letter and kind of explained what was happening. And at that point, as we said, they had all turned and fled and gone into the jungle, and a lot of them had gone back to their villages,

points of origin, I guess, to wait it out to see what happens. And then we were given certain tasks where we'd go to these villages and try to track down some of the effort. But so we'd set up ambushes and some of the trails because a lot of them would come in at night back to their villages to see their families. We did go to one of their homes and cleared that.

But to no avail, they're always, you know, three-step. It's their country, their land. Nothing goes on. And then, you know, rail. And then at the end, we had all this ammunition that needed to be spent because it's, you know, it's dated. So we went to the range and we're on the range just being dumb, shooting them any years around as we can. And then Captain Raoul showed up and called me and I ran over and he put me at attention and then took my first class rank off and then put the corporal rank on and then with a good punch right in the chest. It goes on your uniform in the middle.

And that's because you would ask. And that's when I got my corporas, right? So at the end of the end of the two. Very nice. Joel, you're starting to cut out a little bit. And you want to check your cable? Yep. There you go.

Not so much. It might just be that when you start getting to, you're speaking into the bottom of the microphone rather than the top. Is this better? Yeah, yeah. So not to try out to move. Okay. Yeah.

so that was i don't sure if you cut the last part but that's where at the end capramuro gave me my my corporal ranked that was 1996 so at that point i'm two years in now you're a pretty young corporal at this point right uh well in terms of service yeah i mean i was 21 22 when i when i joined so some you know some guys have joined younger but yeah within the section i was yeah for for time in the legion definitely I was I was low time to be a corporal and then to be in the in the section I was I was fortunate you know yeah right place right time I don't know but yeah things things worked out well for me I had a good go so then so then after that you is that when you went to the commander school so yeah so while I was there I knew that when we're done I would have to do my command of

course so they the French run a command of course in Montelieu which is Southern France. And then there's two parts to it. There's a fort on the on the Mediterranean, not far from Perpignan. And then the second phase, there's an old fort up in the Pyrenees Mountains, Monlui, which was one of the forts built to keep the boys out, the moors, you know. And that's where it's run. So I knew that that's what I would be doing next. So when I was in in bungy, one of the corporals in the section was fairly new to the team. He'd come over from a, he was French, he'd come over from a regular French pair regiment to join the Legion

and got into the section Gilles. So we'd go for runs often around the primitive base. He kind of gave me a brief on what to expect because I obviously wanted to know what to expect for my command of course. So we got back to France, got back to Calvie, and everyone went on leave and myself and two other individuals that had done selection with,

me and got in us three went and did our nano course. And that course you would do, we would be the only legionnaires. So the other, our coursemates would be other CCP, regular French. There would be the Air Force forward air traffic or controllers. There is the commando Marine, which is the French kind of equivalent to the US Marines. Navy Steelers. So they have divers. Basically, it's the French equivalent to the Navy SEAL program, but obviously in a much smaller scale.

And then there's the Gijsien, which is the French anti-terrorist team. All their new members would do the same commander course. So that was my first introduction, and it's a, I think it's a month-long course. And that was my first introduction to kind of regular French troops. troops and then being the kind of the legionaire you know what I mean which was interesting because a lot of them that would have been their first time dealing with a legionaire obviously and it was kind of you know they probably had their misconceptions or ideas and then just getting in a course with them and yeah becoming friendly and yeah it was an interesting experience how did they treat

how did they respond to you initially because you kind of hooked up with a crew in the beginning and yeah I mean we were busy so like they throw you into it right away. I think at first they're a bit standoffish because they probably think we're rapists and murders, as most people do that, join the French for me. You know what I mean? But at the same time, we're all, we are GCP, you know, so whatever. I think they're just trying to figure us out like you do on most courses. You kind of give everyone there's some butt sniffing that goes on. And once we got into it, you know, everything finds its place. So yeah, it was fine. They were good. And our instructors were all, it was

was interesting to see them. Same thing. I think there were some of them moving in the first experience, you know, training at a league, you know, trying to get an idea of who and what we are. It was more the free fall course where I had more time to kind of hang out with the guys. Oh, that's right. Okay. That's right. The socialist side or hang out, you know. But you know, the commandant course was a good experience. It was actually tough, which I enjoyed. At the end of it, our NCO, we're doing the final exercise and we're on this road running at night with the rucksacks and we're all, you know, knackered. And I could see the lights of a truck at the end.

We get there and it's a French Army truck. And the NCO is like, it's over. And I was like, are you sure? He's like, yeah, I'm fucking sure. I'm telling you it's over. Relax. But it was the first, it was the first course where it was actually, you know, I could feel myself pushed to the limit, which was neat.

It was something I enjoyed. What was interesting, one of the interesting things about the commander course, the way you write about it is there is a waterborne course and you guys do a lot of obstacle courses like you don't do an obstacle course as an obstacle course it didn't seem like it seemed like like running obstacle course from part of your training yeah they're all they're all old chateaus and built into the walls and the mouth the the the moats everything are the obstacle courses so what they do is they time you from the get go and you need to improve throughout the course even though you're becoming fatigued, injured.

If you reduce in time, you lose points. So the theory is learning what they're teaching you, but being effective in technique, which will equal endurance and longevity, not just going about it like an idiot and hurting yourself, right? So they're pushing you on those fronts, but also, you know, monitoring how you use. do throughout, but they definitely add to the fatigue and then they'll add the, you know, the explosive

component. I think, you know, in the book we mentioned the second night, we're in one of the old, you know, fort rooms and they're giving us the lesson on range safety. And they got the heat cranked, and the instructor's got the bucket of water at the front of the class. And, you know, the idea is to just screw it out. So at the end of the class, everyone's standing or they've, you know, put their head in the water a couple of times. And, you know, they mentioned they gave us, there was two teams on the course and you'd have these old PP13, you know, Indo-China era radios that are massive, you know, and they would call you, we had a color and they would call you and say, you know, Blue, be at this spot in five minutes and you had to, you know, rush off and there they'd have you either do an obstacle

course or there'd be a lesson in knots, which you'd forget after about two minutes or, or explosive calculations. I don't, you know, math isn't my strong point by any means, but at least I had some teammates that I could cheat and watch, but if someone told me to go make a breach charge, it would be, it would be risky. But yeah, they're definitely trying to fatigue you. And something I think, you know, I mentioned the book obviously. I noticed I had Legion issued gear, which came out of the Indochina warehouse, you know, and the Gijergen, who's, you know, the French anti-terrorist team, he had all the Gucci top of the line civilian stuff. And because we'd sleep outside in the moat a lot, you know and it was cold in the period of the base you know it was a and he would have a great sleep

and we'd be all cursing the hell of the uh the french uh you talk about one of your favorite drills a swerve on my fucking nerve yeah that's right yeah um so we would the initial phase of the course is in perpignon which is on the water so that's kind of the amphibious stuff so we would we would get the mask and snorkels on and learn you know we go out there snorkeling get into the swells, cover the distance that we had to do. And then at the end of we'd come back, we had the kayaks that we, the two-man kayaks that we'd have to learn how to use our faces, how to stop basically on the beach because we'd screw up the arrival and the waves. But you'd get to the beach and they would say, okay, we're going for a run. So you'd have to get your bags out of the back

of the truck. In the, in your bags, you have your runners. And so you'd all get into the back of this covered transport truck and they would close the tarp so it's black so there's about you know 15 of you in the back of this truck and they would say all right you need to be in your running gear and then off the truck would go and they would you know swerve to the right swerve to the left they would stop break accelerate and we'd all just be you know bashing in each other tempers would flare and that was the swerve on my fucking nerves and you're trying to change oh yeah you guys manage to navigate that. Oh, man. And at that point, I remember because they have on one of the obstacle

courses that's called the, what was it called? But it's basically like a water pipe that goes up the side of the wall. And there's about enough space in between the pipe and the wall to get your hand in. And you basically use as leverage. And then with your feet, you climb up. And I would scrape the shit out of my knuckles on that thing. And it's, you know, it's a fort wall. So my knuckles, so reaching down, everything was always at the bottom of my rucksack, right? Whatever I needed, it's at the bottom. So I'd reach down and I would just be cursing life because my bare knuckles would be, yeah, it was a house safe.

But we figured it out and the idea was half the guys would just push themselves against the tarp, get out of the way, the guys in the middle would try to figure out it. It was just them, you know, screw, as you do everywhere, just screw with you. But it sticks in my mind. So were there any other highlights of like the Commando course that come to mind? No, I thought the instructors were good. You know, as I said, that was my first kind of introduction to Reg Force French guys. And all the instructors were third commando qualified.

And they all came from a lot of the French SF-SF-sized stuff. So they were, you know, they, whatever. They were good, man. They're all physically fit and switched on. And they would start to, you know, during the course when they saw that you were, you know, putting in the effort. They would talk to you and they're a good shit. I enjoyed it. It was, I'm enamored with forts.

So we're doing a course in a fort, in a castle. It was like, you know, much worse. But yeah, I know it was a good, it was a good experience. So how, you said they were all third command of qualified. How did the commando school? Is it like a two? levels. So the basic, if you go off and do a commando course, that's level one. Level two is the monitor, so the one we're doing, but they were specifically designed for the SF community.

Then you can be a training corporal on a commando course dependent on what they're training. Third level is an instructor level. So most of your NCOs in a team will go and do the third level and that gives them the ability to be an instructor. But it's like anything I'm sure it's the same, the U.S. community is, you know, they'll draw NCOs from different spots to come in and be training Kug. And so that's, you know, that was me getting to talk and meet NCOs out there that have been in the other teams and different, different. And it was interesting too to see the difference between, you know, I mean, the regular, you know, French GCP, 4-R controllers, the

their seals, the Commando Marines, and then the G. Agen, you know, because I, you know, I didn't know, but it was interesting to see what, and actually, I lied because on the commandant course, we didn't have the Command of Marines. That was on the Free Fall Course. They had their own commandment course. But the Giazgen, that was, for me, that was very interesting, because I was aware of what they were capable of. And that was not far from when they stormed the Airbus in Marseille. and the Gijian kind of became popular. One where the movable stairs separated from the aircraft and the one guy took a spill.

That's right. And I actually did my free fall course with the second guy through the door. No shit. And in the Gijian, if you're a new guy to the team, you were put with the most experienced. So he had just gotten to the team and then Marseille kicks off and they go down

and he was at number two through the door. Yeah, no, they were, We got, Jejejezien, we do some cross-training where they would teach us some of their house clearing techniques. Because at that time, they were, you know, they were pretty adept at that skill and some of their shooting and stuff. And yeah, so I was familiar, but it was interesting to see the person that was, you know, for me. Right, right. And I guess for people who don't know, the, the Jeanne, would they be equivalent to, like, Delta or the FBI hurt? Yeah, they would be.

So a gendarme is like, is police. So it's like RCMP for us. So I guess it would be like your FBI, I guess would be the closest equivalent. And then it would be their anti-terrorist team. But in the French system, that is the go-to anti-terrorist team. And then what is the unit that's like colloquially known as the French SAS? Yeah. So that's the premier RIPMA.

Okay. Yeah, developed based on the British SAS. So the same kind of, they have the similar wing dagger logo. And they are the prime regiment of the CUS. So the special operations command, so you have the Premier Pima, you have their Commando Marines, which is like US Navy SEALs, but smaller. And then you have the Gijs. So those are the three main parts of the CUS.

And then you have the aviation side that's fairly new, but the helicopter stuff. And then second tier was the GCP group. And then there's also, there's like three different units. And like they still call, do they still call themselves 11th shock just because it's cool? No. After they sunk the, the Rainbow Warrior, they were, they were. You remember they were sunk? Yeah, they changed names.

In fact, one of our instructors was one was from the, yeah, the ones named shock. Now they're a different, they have a different name. Yeah, there's like three. They're like, experimental aviation units or something like that. Yeah. I know there's some there's some neat you know it was neat you mean I'm a young man I want a soldier you're there it was there was there's some interesting stuff going on yeah yeah for sure so then after you finish the commando school then then what's next for you so then I go to um poe which is

the the French military's jump school in the Pyrenees mountains just outside that not far from to lose where Airbus is based. And that's a three-month course. So there, same thing. All your cuss, newcomers of the cuss and the GCP, G.A. Jen, they go there to do their free fall course. So I show up with another corporal, Dimitri, who had done selection with me. And so we get there. And yeah, it was, they take us to our rooms, which were NCO rooms. So for me, it was a, you know, coming from, it was like, you know, is this, and we, we were eating at the officer or the NCO's mess.

It was just very different for me. But, yeah, I met some of the Command of Marine guys. They were switched on guys and basically just jumped for three months. And then we had the weekends off. They had broke, it's interesting because they actually broke down, the course was broken into three phases. And between phase one and two, there was a week off. the lieutenant running the course agreed it didn't make sense that I go back to Calvany because

that's a two-day trip and they come back so so he he called my captain and calvian asked you know hey listen we can keep struthers we'll just we'll just jump them and uh you know and so again you know I hate to say it but your average Legion experience is not I was I was very fortunate you know what I mean? So it's kind of a biased portrayal, but it is what it is. But yeah, so they just jumped the shit out of me for the week. I'd go to the, at that point, you know, I was new. The first phase was basically we were jumping out of platus and just learning the basics of free fall. And so I would just go to the jump zone and the instructors were doing other courses, but when there's a spot available on their jumps, says, hey, Joel, you know, so I'd get to go,

you know, Pumas. And yeah, just learn my trade a little more and relax and life was good. I met it, you know, at this point, I'm two years in. I met a, Mitri. Yeah, well, the first course I go, I'm there as an extra. I'm kind of jumping. And there's the entry exams, which one of them is a 30 kilometer run. And to get into the GCP, you have to do that minimum under three hours.

So full kit, 30 kilometers, you got to do it under three hours. And it's a good, it's a good. good trick. And I get there and I run like a psycho and I do it. I can't remember it was like two, two and a half hours. But it's flat and post. So it wasn't as hard. But the last guy to come in basically walked over the line at hour five. You know what I mean? But that was enough to get in. So I was sent home because I was the extra. So I come back. I do, I do my medics course in the rep. I come back and I'm there for three months. I meet the guys. And Dimitri sets me up with his he gives me his girlfriend's number that had been there in course and she sets me up with

her friend so i'm i'm jumping out of the herx transals pumas at night i'm free i don't know keep to parmesan i can go out in civvies and angle and do things that young you know young people do and life was good man it was uh yeah it was a shock to the system and at the end of the course as i said you know i befriended uh some of the guys from commander marine i drive back to their base in Toulon which is the big naval yard for the French and that's where the uber which is their prime their kind of flag unit for the commandal Marines that's where their base is and we get there and there was a they had their main building and then a nice dock and there is a US nuclear attack sub there with and I guess a US SEAL team was was there cross training and I didn't see but

the sub was was more there and they showed me of the ribs and some of their underwater some of the kit they're using the kit room. They're their, their armory. And I was just like, fuck, you know, I got to go back to Calvi. First of all, I need a haircut. And I'm going back to the old school rep way of doing things. So it was kind of, I hate to say it. It wasn't the beginning and the end, but it was certainly

the end of the beginning. Because you sort of saw like how other people had it and you're like, oh, man. All be it, I was like I was fortunate. You know, I sound like a, you know, I'm whining. But I'm, I'm, still going back to the rep, which is old, you know, old school. It's very controlled. So it was kind of, it was a hard adjustment, but you get back and you get thrown into it. And I had a lot to, you know, at this point, I'm just a junior guy of the team. So I got all, all that to learn and do, but at least I had the, uh, the courses I need to do. So I go back and start my, my storm, my time as a team,

team, team, team, team. Well, while you were at the, uh, Halo school at the, uh, skydide in school, the military free fall. Is that when you learned about Legionair French? Is that, was it there or was it the commandos? It was kind of, you know what? I was lucky because, yeah, there's the French that the Legion teaches their new recruits is very kind of like prison French, you know. It's old school. There's lots of German vernacular in the Legion French because of the influence from

the Germans. But there's like, for example, when you go to the cook hall and you want eggs, it's a du kui, if you want two of them, it's du kui, which is basically two balls, you know, two testicles, I guess would be. But if you're, if you're, you know, if you're a Czechoslovakian or Romanian or, you know, a Polish guy, you don't know, you just know. So when you get your first little taste of food, I mean, you're at a restaurant, there's a nice lady as your server, you're out of bowls or two tons of people if you look like what so you so you learn um yeah i had funny anecdote i kind of feel bad but it was funny at the time i had a german captain on my free fall course and he was there to obviously to do his is his free fall training and he didn't speak any french

so i was his translator and uh we had a long weekend come up and he's excited that his family was going to come down and they were going to go to paris and he wanted me to teach him how to to book a room, like to ask for a hotel room and spent the week training and off he went to Paris and he could say almost perfectly, could I have a room please wench? Yeah, you write about the guys, you write about the guy's kind of giving you shit because, like, what is it or what did he mean or what did he say? So yeah, so the Marine got, yeah. So yeah, my French, I mean, it was, I'm not French. And so we would, in our talks and stuff, sometimes my legion slang and then my anglophone

accent would take over. And a lot of times it'd say, you know, it would be four of us. And then I'm talking to one. And then he would just look to the other guy and say, what's he saying? And it would drive me fucking nuts. And then obviously, as soon as I knew that it got to me. And then I became one of the team leaders for the jumps. So I'd have to brief all the guys.

You know, they'd break us up into two sticks, whatever. And I'd have to have to. brief pre-jump and typically every freaking time at the end of it one of them would say what do you say it was just they'll give me a hard time but it was yeah that's fascinating it's interesting though that because of their history and because everything else that the legion french is actually a theme yeah you know that it's it's it's almost its own like uh not language but you know dialect yeah dialect yeah very interesting the second the second company and the rep uh their their marching song is Elweiss, which is a Virmar.

Yeah. The Venaki, like, Ahtung is there, a lot of German words there. Obviously, Poach, we talked about that. But yeah, there's a lot of German influence. Very interesting. So you finish that and then you go back.

So now you're a full-fledged, qualified command or GCP. Correct. Yeah. So I go back and then it's typically, you know, training exercises, so jumping with the guys and just, you know, getting into it and learning the team aspect of stuff. And then you're new to the jumping. So they're, you know, they're watching or giving you hard time.

But we go off to Chad at that point for a tour. And, yeah, we're in Chad. There's nothing really going on, but it's just training. So we got the vehicles and we'd head up. and I was always interested in the Sahara, so I was always bugging my boss about going up to Abesche, which was an area up in the northern part of Chad, southern part of the Sahara Desert.

And it was known for, there's an old French fort there, going back to like your Boghest days. And in fact, I think during the Libyan Chad War, because the French were involved in that, assisting the... And 88. Yeah, they had shot down a hind and taken a couple Russian-made,

you know, ground radar type tracked vehicles. And I think the Americans flew in your star lifters into Abesche and flew some of them out. So it kind of had that would make sense. That was when General Haftar was captured during that war. And we brought him to the United States. And he was set up in a nice place in Virginia. Virginia and one could argue that perhaps he was a U.S. intelligence asset and that we sent him back to Libya when the Civil War kicked off. Yeah. So it had, you know, the name resonated and I had heard about it before.

I had heard that the SAS had been through there, the old desert rats, but I can never find that anywhere written down because that would have been the part of the, you know, but whatever. So we finally, we went up there and yeah, we jumped. We jumped on. There was an airstrip by the old French Legion fort. And we, we, that was probably, you know, one of my memorable jumps is we,

the Herc, we went out, we secured the air strip and then the Hurt came in and did a, like an operational landing. One of the French mortar teams rolled out their mortars in the back. And there in the background was the French fort, you know, so I was just kind of waiting for the,

the Bojest dead Legionaires to be propped up on the side with the weapons, you know, but yeah, it was, it was neat, but we didn't, there was no, it was an operation.

was just kind of training. And there was stuff starting to heat up in the, then Congo. And at one point, we were called back to the base, and we were going to either fly or jump into Brazbo. And that was kind of, you know, that was, that was interesting. We all keyed up.

At the end of the day, that's what we wanted to do. We wanted an operation to jump, you know. I heard of, I believe the last operational jump for the rep would have been Colweese in Zaire. So we were stood down and yeah, it was kind of a depressing moment in my time there, but it is what it is. But I enjoyed, I enjoyed Chad. I saw, you know, I mentioned the book. It was, you know, another view of Africa, different from Bunky, Central Africa, obviously different terrain.

But I would see, you know, we did some pretty good navigation tours and we'd drive through villages where they had nothing, you know, but they're happy. that always sticks to me to this day you know i get pissed off because my Wi-Fi i'll lose my shit my daughter looks at me my Wi-Fi is slow and you know it was it was good for young man to kind of perspective to see the world for what it was and so i've enjoyed again yeah yeah and so what is this are you planning your exit now are you are kind of making the decision that you're not going to stay no not not quite yet But I'm definitely, as you do, watching. You know, you kind of see the, you know, you're seeing the NCOs.

You see the route that a career is going to be, right? Right, right. And I can see the similar momentum of the yearly happenings that's going on within the regiment. You know, there's the tours and there's the certain times when all the vehicles and equipment has to be cleaned and they accounted for. There's garrison type stuff. There's the courses I can look for. forward to or not look forward to.

The idea of going to Castel was something that always kind of, I didn't, you know. But so I'm kind of watching and trying to figure out this point, is this something long-term? It's not until we go into Brazzaville, Congo, that I'm kind of making decisions on the next step. But we're getting there. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's, you know, it's, unfortunately, it's a tough, controlled environment, you know. And as you get older, you know, towards the end of my six years, I'm 29, you kind of have to make that decision whether or not you need 15 years in the Legion to get to retirement.

And is that something I want to do for my as a career or I'm still young enough I can get out and start something new? You know, I'm not past my prime. So, yeah, I was trying to decide whether or not to. And what were you like what were you thinking about? what were you drawn to as that kind of time was approaching? A lot of times I was thinking about girls. Because you guys were so restricted. Oh, right?

I mean, yes, I'm being for season to, but it's true. You're, you know, you're a young man. And yeah, it's, again, I was fortunate. So, you know, we get to go out and have time. But it's very controlled. I mean, to have a girlfriend, a serious relationship, you're not allowed to get married for the first five years. And once you hit the five-year mark and you're an NCO, I think you need to pass,

what you did at the time you had to pass a front of your captain and ask permission. So yeah, so to have a, you know, a real life is, and hence the higher turnover. And I know since my time, they've obviously been busy Afghanistan and certainly Mali these days. They're a little less stringent on guys and things of lax and the rules are not quite as tight. just for that. The guys are doing it. They're doing it. Don't be too hard on them, you know,

just to cut down on the, on the, well, the turnover. But, yeah, I'm kind of just looking around at this point,

enjoying it, enjoying the experience, but I'm hitting it, you know, a little more mature, a little more experience, trying to think, hey,

is this, is this what I want to do as a career? And then looking at my peers and thinking, is that, is that me? And it's starting to go,

no, I'm starting to think about, yeah, returning, And that's the thing, too, is I'm, you know, I didn't leave Canada because I had an issue. I love, you know, I'm a proud Canadian. I'm just there because I want a soldier.

So I have no interest in being a friend citizen. And I always feel like I'm a guest in someone else's army, right? I'm not. And that's maybe others are different. But, yeah, so I'm starting to think. And then we go, you know, we go off. We do our, we're in the Alps doing our winter warfare course with the second company. And in Brazbo, Congo, it's the French ambassador's residence is the Kaz de Gaulle,

which is the old residence of General de Gaulle. And that was considered kind of his free France headquarters during the Second World War. And today it's the ambassador's residence, but it's considered a, you know, a French monument. And one of his gendarmes, because the Civil War and we obviously, I had mentioned, Jill, who was the guy that I'd run around with during the commandant course, the team was in Brazabelle Congo and were ambushed by the actually Congolese army when they were bringing expats to the airport, and Jill was killed in that contact. And so this is us going back because during the Civil War, the French ambassador stays in the country.

He's staying at his residence, his gendarmes and the cusses are protecting. part of his perimeter. The embassy is open, but, you know, anyway, one of his gendarmes is killed. One of the, it was a, there's a cobra or a nymph, one of the paramederies, there's two, the cobras and the ninjas. And one of them crept up to the wall

and basically shot him point blank and killed them. And so the costs initially secure the, the ambassador's residence, and then the GCP group is tasked with that. So we fly in in an armored Transel C-160 and we land and then we drive to the Kazagal and I do two tours there three months each time and that's where I'm kind of starting to think, you know, this is interesting, I'm enjoying it, but unfortunately we're not really doing a ton and I need to make an exit plan.

And as I mentioned in the book, the local government for the government had hired two maybe 24 hind gun ships that supported their efforts. And every, but once a week, the Russian pilots would fly over the Kazigal low level, I think just kind of, you know, putting it out there. Again, I don't know the politics between the French and stuff, but whatever, there's some issues there, but they would fly low level just to, you know, say, hey, you know. And I would run out all the time and look at the belly of the beast. It was blue, is that Russian blue, you know?

and obviously we've been jumping in the Puma helicopters all the time. And I was always watching the pilots and kind of enamored with the whole thing. And I was like, you know what, maybe that's my next move helicopters. And it was when those Heinz flew over. I was like, you know what, I'm going to go and learn how to fly helicopters. So I initiated, you know, I reached out to a training school in Canada. it's funny because I called we were back in Calvian and I had

a phone, an interview with the chief pilot of the training school which is BIAH, Vancouver Island helicopters and I called them from the phone box on our parade square in Calvey in the rep and Dave was his name.

He was like, you know, there's a bit of a lag where are you calling from, Joel? I'm like, yeah, I'm in the second airborne regiment, the French foreign Legion. There's a noticeable pause. like, excuse me. Let me review your file.

Anyway, at that point, that's when I was on my way out. And I didn't say too much, but once I was given a spot on the course that I knew. And then at that point in my career, here I am, I'm at five, five years plus. my captain is saying, you know, do you want to, you know, do you want to go the NCO route, but you need to sign on for an additional year or three years. And I, you know, I decline. I said, you know, no, sir, you know, do respect, I'm moving on. I have, you know, I'm going to go back to Canada and do this, which that was Captain Demur.

He was my, the captain, the GCP when I left. He went on to be the CEO of the regiment and led them when they jumped into Gohung to Mbuktu in Mali, a general here shortly. And he wrote the Ford for a belt. He was nice enough to, yeah, do that. But he respected that. And then, as I said, I went in front of the company captain. That's when they offered the position down in the community as a, you know, I had made my, I had made my decision.

29. There were certainly attractions to stay, but the pull to carry on was stronger. I felt bad. You know, I felt, to be honest, I felt, you know, my teammates, you know, there's some good guys, man, and that's a big reason why I wrote the book is the misconception of what a legionaire is annoys me. And the reason for the book was there's a lack of education out there. And at the end of the day, the young men, good guys doing a job. Some pay the price, and some are certainly more so this day. So the effort was to write a true positive account from some that served, reached the upper, upper levels. Because unfortunately, a lot of the information that is shared about the Legion is typically deserters that couldn't hack it,

and they just share their own narrative, which is full of shit. Well, what did you say to a young man coming to you today saying, hey, I'm thinking about joining the Legion. That's, you know, I get, actually, I get a lot of DMs because obviously, you know, I did the Jocko. That was kind of the Jocko podcast, which was an introduction to all this for me. And as a result of that, I've been getting quite a few. Yeah, and, you know, I mean, I left 20 years ago. The Legion's come a long way. And Dmitri, the guy that I mentioned, that we went off and did a jump course together, but he's actually now, he made his way up always.

through the ranks. He's now a lieutenant in charge of the recruitment in Obine. So he's done well for himself. Obviously, no surprise, but now it's kind of full circle. And I just basically tell people if they're interested, I'm not the person to give you advice by any means.

I mean, it's 20 years ago. But if it's something you want to do, do it. Just make sure you're going for the right reasons. And the only advice I would say is, as I mentioned earlier, know some French and be in shape. and know how to run, you know, your cardio has got to be up there. But they have, the Legion has a website that gives you all the information that you need.

Go to them. Don't come to the ER. Is there a process for commissioning for Legionnaires who are not French-born? To become an officer? Yeah, you can. If you're successful and you, you know, climb the ranks and they feel that you have the opportunity and the ability, you know, to be an officer within the, the Legion. you write the exams.

I believe they might, you know, I'm talking above my pregrade at this point, but they might send you to the military officer school, but you certainly have to write the exams, but you can only, I believe, if you're not a born Frenchman, you can only hit a certain rank. Okay. And is it true that they offer you French citizenship at some point? They used to.

Definitely if you're injured in combat, you were given your Fred's citizenship. When I was in, it was a administrative process after five years, I believe. Okay. That's changed. Now I think it's, I might be wrong, but I think now it's eight, and it's not a given. But, yeah, it's not a, it's not a. So when you were planning your exit and planning on flying helicopters, at any point,

and I don't know what the process is in the Canadian military or if there's a program in the Legion, But at any point, at any point were you looking at sort of a military helicopter pilot aspect, or was it sort of like you just wanted to kind of pull pitch, get out of the military altogether and go to the civilian role? Yeah, yeah. 100%. Someone had actually mentioned that you could get into the Canadian military and do selection for the JTF. And I had actually asked and looked into that, but no, you had to join Reg Force and then do. So I wasn't interested in going back to, you know, basic training as a, sure.

I live at 30. So, yeah, I went straight into flight school and I started flying up in northern Canada. And, you know, it does kind of off topic, but close. I remember it's kind of a regret, to be honest with you, is I was driving fuel to one of our staging areas. And that's when 9-11 happened. And I remember pulling into one of the camps and everyone's in the, in watching TV screens. And yeah, if I could go back, I would have gone and said, fuck helicopters and joining him. I didn't.

Yeah, it is what it is. You know, everything happens for a reason. But yeah, no, I was kind of done with military. I've been there down that. Yeah. But I, you know, post, you know, I obviously went and spent a couple years in Iraq and did a year in Afghanistan. So I was able to kind of get some of those things and see what's happening out there afterwards, albeit it wasn't obviously as a, you know, a soldier, more of a similar contractor.

But yeah, it's something I feel like I never really tested or had the ultimate test as a soldier. I had my small little experiences, but I never certainly never did what a lot of young men win-win-win-er experience in these days. So but then again, you don't be careful what you wish for. let them suffer from it. Sure. Sure. I think that a lot of pre-9-11 soldiers, especially special operation soldiers, they can identify, you know, with that sort of idea that, you know, you wait, you wait, and you wait, and you train, and you know, you're in a job for a reason.

And it's not that you're a cold-blooded killer, but you join this to test yourself or to do something. and the balloon never goes up and you never get a chance to do it. And then, yeah. On that, I served with, you know, unfortunately when I was in Iraq, the early days, I was there for a couple years on and off. And I hate to say it, but there's a lot of people in that category that now we're giving the opportunity to work as private contractors, and they just, you know, their behavior was, yeah, questionable.

Just, you know, trying to prove things or given that, you know. Right, right. You know, they want to get some. Yeah, exactly. And then, you know, anyway. But no regrets, you know, everything happens for a reason. I'm happy with the- So you became a pilot.

You went into contracting. And then like where, because, you know, you not only have you written this book, but you have your business, what, Legionaire, I'm sorry, engineering or engineered Legion. Yeah, well, that's, that's, yeah, I get out. I start flying helicopters, mostly in Canada. And typically, the winter times are slow for helicopters, obviously. And if there's any flying, it's going to the more experienced pilots.

So as a low-time pilot, you're not making much money. You're just flying to get experienced. And a lot of the guys in the team, particularly one of my, the roommate, Ken, that's in the book, Schmiddy, he had gotten out, and they were working for a British security firm called Armour Group. Oh, yeah. But they had contract supporting Hallie Burton and KBR in Algeria, natural gas efforts. So I had an interview with a nice lady Caroline in London. And they were hiring guys to act as OLCs, which is an operation liaison coordinator for

Halliburton or KBR in Algeria. So they had natural gas rigs in the Sahara, obviously due to the terrorism issue in Algeria. the Algerian military or police would secure the rigs and the living quarters. So they would hire typically ex-legionaires, English speakers, to act as OLC. So you'd be the liaison between KBR, the client, and then the security forces providing security for the rigs, and then manage the road moves or what have you. And that's actually where I put all my words for the book into, a word document was three months sitting on a rig in the middle of this area.

I would do that to supplement my income and then the Iraq war came and and KBR obviously had the relationship or sorry, Armour Group obviously had the relationship with KBR and they were given the log cat contract with the US military to build a lot of the camps, the defects, the defects and then the fuel. So I was flying. and Caroline called me said, do you want to go to Iraq? And I was like, fuck yeah.

You know, it'd be interesting to see, you know, something that I've heard so much about. So we, KBR had three floors in the, at the Sheraton Hotel in Baghdad, not far after, you know, Mr. Bush was on the aircraft carrier saying the war's over. We were there fairly early on. The idea was, I was with,

we had two regiment guys, and there's a handful of us. And the idea was they were going to hire all these Iraqis and train them on close protection. And the idea was when KBR executives came in from Houston and stuff, we would be there to do the road moves to all the different installations. So to provide security for them. So I did that for the first. And this, not a lot was going on. Things were fairly quiet.

You know, the IEDs hadn't started, suicide bombers hadn't started. There were still a weapons embargo and all this kind of stuff. So it was pretty tame. but it was interesting. Sorry, is this pretty early into 2003 then? Is this kind of... That's 2004. In fact, I got it wrong.

In fact, it's something I wrote, when I was on the Jocko podcast, I got the dates wrong. And I think I remember said it was when he was in Ramadi and I said, yeah, we were there at the same time. Not a lot was going on and he gave me a look like what fuck you're talking about. But I had the dates wrong. It's my bad. But anyway, yeah, it was very early on. And yeah, so we did that. But it was interesting to see, for me, it was an.

open were seeing the American War Machine, you know, just the size of it and everything. It was, it was a neat experience. And then I came back the next year and then we were doing a different project. We were doing armor again, but it was low profile PSD. And it comes back to what I was saying earlier. And we had an installation right beside the green zone, but four or five villas. And for a lot of the clients that we were looking after USAID, FLUR, so doing a lot of the rebuilding. a lot of your, you know, your teams like your, your hearts, black, or that kind of stuff, they, they had a bad name for themselves. And the bathists or the jihadis, where you're going to call the time,

we're kind of going after them because they were shooting their uncles or, you know, families that were up for a drive and didn't respect the distance. You know what I mean? There was a lot of questionable, I'm not saying, I'm not putting that on names I just mentioned, but PTSD or PSD teams in general had a bad, a bad name. So what we were doing is low profile. So we'd have two vehicles, soft skin that, we bought locally, you know, a BMW Mercedes, Opel, whatever.

And it would be two expats, one each vehicle. And we had Iraqi nationals that we had trained. And out we go and we just try to blend into the traffic because Baghdad was obviously chocker block at the time, just a traffic jam. And the idea was we would blend in and not be the targets like the, the uparmers and the SD. We had our DoD badges and we, I think, you know, We had Union Jacks classified because any time a PSD team would roll up beside us,

you know, we'd have those in the windows right away because if they look down and see interact you with an AK on their lap, it's a call. Yeah, yeah. But that was a challenge and a half. I don't know how many times I told my driver to slow down and I got a 50 Cal from an American checkpoint right over the top of our vehicle as a warning shot because we're going to do. It was, yeah, it was a lot of work. And I ended up actually punching out one of my Iraqis.

And Armour Group decided to send me up to Decrete. But to be honest with you, it was a challenge. Or every once in a while, you know, Mohamed wouldn't come to work the next morning. And the Americans would show up later with his DoD badge saying, yeah, we shot him yesterday in an ambush. You know what I mean? God damn. Yeah, playing both sides, right? Yeah.

It was, again, it was a learning experience. neat to see the American military at work. It was an eye-opener for me, totally different from what I had experienced. And then I was up into Crete working with the Corps of Engineers. And they were working just not far from Camp Buckmaster. And they were cleaning up a lot of the old ordinance facilities there that you guys had bombed. And so they would go in and try to clean up. Some of the stuff hadn't gone up. And yeah, I did that for a while. We go up into Mosul looking for weapons of mass destruction, no success. And then, yeah, so I would fly six months, Iraq six months kind of thing.

And then I do that back and forth. And then Armour Group got the contract with the British Embassy for the Helmand contract in Afghanistan. So 2007, Helman was obviously the British area of responsibility. and they had an advisor, the Foreign Commonwealth Office had an advisor to the Helmand Governor. So our group had the contract in Kabul and down in Lashkarga. And so they asked me if I wanted to do that, but I'd have to commit for a year. And that was, you know, having read obviously about Afghanistan and all the books and just watching it. And again, I wanted to go and see, you know, what was happening.

And that's all I was down. We were down in Lashgarga, working with. We were embedded with the initially the Para Reg, the Britt Parage, and then the Commander Marines, because they would do six months of tours. It was interesting. I enjoyed it. I had a young suicide bomber take a run at us. And then some other side. And I just, after a year, at that point, I had a son.

My son was probably three. I was kind of, you know, at that day, I was like, you know what? This is interesting, but, nah. isn't really anymore. And so what are you, what are you up to today, Joel? Yeah, so tell you, as a result of all that,

three partners and I got together and from the, from the museum, we started Ravenhill Risk Control, which is a Canadian, Canadian security company. And predominantly we do domestic stuff. And on the side,

obviously, writing the book came up. You know, there's never, I waited for years, and nothing else. ever came out of what a legionaire represented. And it's something, you know, it's something that I would actually avoid just in small talk. You know, how do you explain something at small talk?

Right, right. Maybe it was on me to write a book because, you know, the story. So I had, I put the time and effort in. And, yeah, it came out last year. And then it was more trying to figure out how to use that platform. Like, it's not about me. And the company, the reason I mentioned the company Ravenhill is that is a name in the family that goes back to the Borer War.

And when I would sit and talk to my grandfather, my grandmother, when I was doing my flight course, my grandmother mentioned me that there was a Victoria Cross in the family. And I was blown away with that because I'm always enamored with, you know, that type of stuff. And it was George Ravenhill, which was her great, great, great, great, great uncle. and he had won the VC and the Boer War at the Battle of Clenzo. But he had been one of eight recipients that actually had the medal taken back by the Queen, the UK government for theft of what? He'd done the Boer War.

He had gone then and served in France, come back, and one can only assume found himself in like a penal section for, you know, misbehavior. behavior, drinking, you know, obviously, one would assume post-traumatic stress, you know, of its effects, you know, First World War, all kind of stuff. And he felt that he wasn't being given his due wages. And in order to feed his family, he had gone and he was stealing steel out of the yards in Birmingham, just enough to sell to pay for food. And he was caught. And for that, they took the VC back. Wow. He had the, he sent, he had the, he sent, he had the four children, three of them were sent to orphanages, two in the U.S., one in Canada, and he died at my age, 48.

You know, brave, you know, I mean, he had been shot through the armed battle cleanso. I mean, if you read the report, he's obviously a brave man served his country. And I was always respectful of that. So I used the name Ravenhill for the company. But, you know, with a book and the platform, trying to think, you know, how to use it in a positive way, we created Legion engineered. The idea was that the book, all the proceeds that come to me as the author, which is, you know, a lot. But that will go to support the Legion engineered effort, which is basically just an apparel effort for PTSD awareness.

So I'm trying to learn more about it. But, you know, out of respect, any man or woman that wants to serve the country, and off they go, and they come back and they pay the price for whatever reason, you know, it's sad. you know, it's honorable if I could help or learn, we could do one thing for one person. Maybe that will make it worth it, right? So Legion engineered was an effort to defend that. Yeah, maybe bring it all full circle and maybe I'll learn more about post-traumatic stress

and some of the efforts to help. And there you go. So once again, talking to Joel Struthers, the book Appel. You can get it on Amazon. You can get it on Google, right? What are the, all the avenues? Yeah, so it's Amazon everywhere. You can get Kindle, Apple, Google Play, Kobo. The audio book will be out in July. And the movie starts for, no, Kelly. Maybe soon. The links for Amazon is down below. And I believe that the Kindle is on sale right,

or the Kindle book is on sale for right now for like $3.99 or $4.99 or something. I mean, it's a steal, guys. Definitely check it out. And then Legion Engineered is also linked below the video in the box. So you guys check that out. Check out what Joel is doing. Also, everybody, thank you for joining us tonight. If you haven't subscribed to the channel, please subscribe it to the channel and hit that notification button.

If you want to join our Patreon, we have exclusive content that each one of our guests generally does. Joel's going to do something for us tonight. $1 a month. One dollar a month will keep you happy. And the link to that is down in the description also. You know, if you guys give this video the thumbs up, you comment on it, you share it with your friends, all that helps us bump up in the algorithm. And it gets Joel's story out there and heard about his book out there. So, I mean, please spread it far and wide.

Tell your mom, tell your kids, tell your dog, let them know. It's, I mean, this is really fascinating because it's like you say, like there is not a modern history of the French foreign Legion out there, you know, or a modern take on it. I think that there is still the impression that it's criminals, you know, people on the run who are joining and, you know, and then it's it's antiquated, right, that they're working with, you know, 50, you know, 1950s gear and things like that. But it's really a very modern force. Oh, for sure. Yeah, because of Afghanistan and Mali, they've come a long way. It's impressive to see that the equipment and stuff that they have.

Yeah, no, it's, you know, as I said, if you're a young man and you don't have the opportunities and you want a soldier, it is, you know, it is a good test. Well, even if they do have the opportunities, there's something very romantic about. Yeah, there is. Yeah. You know, there's something very romantic about the whole idea of joining the French foreign Legion. Ideally, if you could do both, that would be nice. You know, if you serve your country, you want to try something else or go and do the Legion, come back and join your own, you know, use the experience and knowledge that you gain. That's something, you know, I wish I kind of,

maybe it spent a little more time and have done something for my country, but say la Vie, right? But yeah. And it's not like you didn't try, you know, unfortunately, you know, Canada at the time is a peacetime country had smaller forces and they just didn't need the people. We have a couple questions that we need to get to real quick here. Let's see here. Thank you very much. Ian, French and Canadian Mardi's or meals ready to eat. I don't know what they call them in France or in Canada. Contrast and compare. The French have come along. Initially, they're pretty old school. I think they had a bottle of wine in there. Like it went to a mini bottle of wine,

which is unfortunately. Yeah, unfortunately, I think those have stopped. But they've, yeah, when the French went into Afghanistan, they kind of saw how things are happening with the coalition and the other ways to do anything. I think they've really up their game since their time in Afghanistan. They kind of copied the American

MRE type thing, you know, had water. But yeah, at the end of the day, is anyone right home about their MREs? No. No. When you were in the Canadian reserves, did you ever have any of their MREs or their rations? Yeah, I would have.

To be honestly, I don't, I don't recall, to be honest. Yeah, it would have been probably similar to the American stuff. So probably nothing that you would find in the Michelin Guide. No, exactly. Definitely not yet. Thank you very much. James. Any experience working with the 13th Airborne Dregor?

Dragoon Regiment, soft reconnaissance unit. Negative. No. And DJ, thank you very much. She just said great episode, guys. And that's it for our question tonight. We really appreciate everybody joining us. And Joel, we really appreciate you join us.

Oh, thank you. It's a fascinating story. I appreciate that. No, it's, yeah, hopefully I came across. I'm no vet at this game. so it's another learning experience. Oh, this has been great. This has been a huge eye-opener for me,

and I think anybody else is trying to research what the French Foreign Legion really is and what it isn't, it's going to find it's helpful. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and again, please check out, please check out Jill's book. Great book. And I think one of the things,

a couple interesting things about the book is there's a great deal of history about the Legion, about each of the locations you go see. Like it's not just, it's not just Joel's history, but it's also a really good take on the French Foreign Legion, the history bringing up to the modern era, at least the modern era as, you know,

Joel experiences. So that's it. All right. See you guys next week. And hey, let me just tease out the guest for next week. Oh, that's right. Next week is August Cole and Peter Singer. They're the authors of,

of Burnin and Ghost Fleet. Also, they write military thrillers, like near future, sort of techno thrillers. And I'm halfway through this book right now. It's about the integration. Basically it's about how artificial intelligence is gonna change the entire world. So we'll have both of those guys on next episode.

Well, and thanks everybody. We really appreciate it.