The Team House - The Light Reaction Regiment: the Philippines answer to Delta Force w/ Francis Villanueva, Ep. 55

Episode Date: August 15, 2020

Francis Villanueva had amazing access to the Light Reaction Regiment (LRR) of the Philippines in writing his book about them called "Tiradores" which means shooters. The LRR is the Philippines version of Delta Force, trained by US Special Forces, they conduct some of the most dangerous and awe inspiring operations that few have ever heard about. The government deliberately attributes their operations to other units while the LRR remains in the shadows, until now. In our interview, Francis talks about how and why the LRR was created and their biggest challenges during full blown urban warfare in Zamboanga and Marawi. Tiradores can be found here and belongs on the shelf of any serious student of Special Ops: https://www.amazon.com/Tiradores-Missions-Philippines-Reaction-Regiment/dp/1727153502 Help Dave recover from being attacked on the subway: https://www.gofundme.com/f/david-parke039s-medical-bills Support the stream on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/m/TheTeamHouseBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.

Being a parent can be really challenging. Child and Family Resource Network focuses on connecting pregnant parents and those with kids under the age of five with free support services to help them on their parenting journey. Everyone deserves someone they can turn to for help with parenting. Visit child and family resource network.org today. Being a parent can be really challenging. It's normal to feel uncertain about whether you're doing the right things

to raise healthy and happy children. That's why Child and Family Resource Network focuses on connecting pregnant parents, and those with kids under the age of five, with free support services to help them build confidence in their parenting journey. Everyone deserves to have someone they can turn to for support with parenting. Visit child and family resource network.org today. Hi, everyone. I'm Jack Murphy here with our guest tonight, Francis Villanueva. Francis is the author of the new book, Deradores, which is about the Filipino white reaction regiment.

I'm almost done with the book. I'm like right at the, right at the climax of the book, a very important sniper shot. Three snipers shoot at HVT number one while he's on the dock and take him out. It's just an incredible story. And I was able to meet with the LOR members when I was in the Philippines in 2017. Francis and I, we know quite a few of the same people. So I was so happy to see that he wrote this book because this unit is, it's not very well known. Really, it's not very well known anywhere because when this unit is so secretive, they're like the Filipino version of Delta Force.

When they do operations, it gets credited to other units. And they'll say, oh, it's the scout rangers. It will say anything but them. So very few people know about how important this unit is and how, gutsy some of the operations they've conducted are. So we'll, we're going to talk all about the book. We're going to talk all about this unit. And I'm very excited about that. I just wanted to give you guys a quick word, you know, status update about my co-host, Dave, who isn't here today. I think all of you know at this point that, you know, Dave got attacked on the subway pretty badly,

fractured skull, and all kinds of, you know, injuries. He was critical in the hospital for a little while. But thankfully he's okay now. He's all right. He's at home. But because he took so many blows to the head, he has trouble concentrating. Like he really wants to be here and he feels actually bad that he's not here. Like he's selling you guys short because he's really touched by how generous and caring all of you have been to him. He's really touched by that. And so he wants to be here. But it's just he needs time to recuperate and heal. And he'll be back as soon as he can. And I'm just, I'm just, going to see him tomorrow and we're going to make a short video. He just wants to have a few words for you guys, you know, and gratitude for everything you've done for him. So without further ado, welcome to episode, I think this is episode 56, with our guest, Francis. Thank you, Francis. Yeah, Jack, thank you so much for inviting me. It's a real privilege to be here and to promote the book. Yeah, well, I mean, I feel like it was a privilege to meet the LRR and it was a privilege to read your book. And just again, I'm so glad that you were able to give credit where credit is due.

I was wondering just to give people a taste of what this unit is, what they're all about. If you could tell us the story about the Trojan horse mission that they did where they, well, I'll let you tell the story. So you want me to tell the whole story? It might spoil the, I mean the book, the chapter one and I think chapter eight. You go ahead and tell us the parts that you think people need to know about. Okay, okay. So the mission was about a high value target in Sulu back in 2014. So LRR specifically first LRC or light reaction company received an intelligence packet.

At that time they were supposed to go back to Fort Magsaysay for their regular retraining. So they were done with their deployment cycle. So it was time for them to go back now. But before they were, as they were about to leave, if I can recall, they received a I think a war, and they had to attend the briefing. So during the briefing, they received this intelligence packet. It's about a very, very elusive high value target in Sulu. And according to the Intel packet, the location was really surrounded by residents loyal to this target.

So it was critical for them to approach the location undetected. So the priority for them was stealth, no. It was not about speed. So they couldn't use the usual choppers, no. So they really had to approach it, approached by stealth. So what they did, what first LRC did, they decided to come up with a small team, that would enter the area and take up.

area and take out that target. So they devise a scheme, specifically, they decided to disguise themselves as locals, no? And in addition to that, they also had to disguise the vehicles they were going to use. Because you know, I think that area, there were only limited, limited types of vehicles, no? It's a one of the municipalities in Sulu, I don't know, I don't know, if it's what class, third, secondary first. But the vehicles that are very limited in type. So they had to use this specific vehicle

that would disguise their approach. So in short, they disguise themselves and they disguise the vehicles. Okay, so what they did, they bought some, I think they bought some clothes from the flea market, and they use it to disguise themselves. What's funny here is, what's very particular here was that one of the support gunner for this mission, he was carrying a mini-mee. He was carrying a mini-mee.

So they had to conceal that. So what they did, they dressed up this guy as a pregnant woman. Okay. So all of them were low-profile plate carriers. they refused to wear helmets, no? And they had to conceal everything, everything. They had to conceal everything. So they were able to, I think the big help here was the, was the asset,

the intelligence. The asset was able to pinpoint. He was able to pinpoint the exact location of the target, the exact time. That's why first allergy was able to pinpoint. able to pull out this mission. The timing was really perfect, no? And they were able to approach the target to the point that the target even waived at them,

even, you know, the target even waived at them, thinking that they were locals about to attend a pre-nuptial ceremony for a wedding. So that this guys really worked for them, and they were able to take down the target. And unfortunately, one of them perished during that mission. And I was also told that that intelligence asset that provided them, those critical information,

was killed maybe two months after. I think he got caught. He got caught. It's in the end notes of the book, he got caught. And I mean, that's part of their job, their sacrifices. And you will see here though that the type of mission, LR, strain to undertake, really covert.

The orders would come from the, sometimes the National Command Authority. That's why people compare them with GAG, with Delta Force. Because of the nature of their mission, very, very similar. Take down a five value targets, interdictions, close target reconnaissance, all those stuff, really covert. And as what you said, most of their missions are usually credited to other, not only military units, but also police units, no, as I think there were two stories, two missions in the book that I told about,

about those missions being credited to the police. And that, yeah, that mission with a fake wedding procession, if you try to Google it, all that comes up is that it's like some sort of police operation. Like there's nothing about the light reaction regimen in there at all. Exactly, exactly. So, Francis, could you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to write a book about a top secret unit? How does that happen? well it's well about myself I'm a I'm a lawyer by profession I've been a lawyer for for 20 years and I used to be also a professional musician a long time ago and first time author and the

my book started no I think the motivation behind behind the book started back in 2014 when I was with a I was with the group, we formed the group. And the purpose of this group was to provide the military, a realistic force-en-force training. So using Airsoft. So that was our group before. So fortunately, L.R took notice of us. And in one of the training exercises of their counter-terrorist class,

I think it was class 14. We were top to act as bad guys. We were top to act as role players. And after that, I think they liked the concept. So we became the regular bad guys and rabbits. Not only of counter-terrorist classes, but also of the regular operational companies of LR. So it went through from 2014 until 2016.

So during that span, we went through several training deployments with them. And we, the concept, I think, gave them a different look on how to train their troops realistically, using vetted civilians as role players and bad guys. So because of that, I think my proximity with the unit, I became close to, I became friends with most of them. I became close to some of them. And I think this this gave me that, this planted in me that desire to, to somehow give something back for the unit.

They have done so much for the country. They have sacrificed so much for the country. And I wanted to give something long-lasting, no. And I think the book gave me that opportunity to give the troops something really, really that will, that will last even beyond their lifetime, which they can pass on to their children or grandchildren, through their stories, the stories of the unit. Absolutely, Francis.

I think it absolutely accomplishes that. And speaking from an American perspective, I hope that more people here will read the book as well, because this is a challenging political time, both for the United States and for the Philippines, and sometimes our relationship between our country is called into question. But I think people should understand that the military relationship between America and the Philippines is unbreakable. And we really have some very good partners and strong friends in the Philippines. And I think when you read your book and you really take full measure of the dedication and the professionalism and the sacrifice that this unit has made, I mean, it really comes through.

Yes, yes, precisely. So let's kind of start at the beginning then. Could you talk to us about how the LRR came to be created? How did this come about? What was the situation at the time in the Philippines that led to the rise of this new unit? Okay. So LR started back in year 2000. the first light reaction company, it was formed to address several hostage crisis.

The hostage crisis in Sipadan, in Malaysia, that dive resort in Malaysia, that was in 2000. I think that that became the, that became the trigger point to start up this city unit. So back in 2000, there was this airborne class, basic airborne class 87. And so the man behind the creation of LRR is really Ted Yamas and major severed. Those are the two guys locally. the counterpart in the states was Colonel Joe Felter, used to be, I think, an assistant secretary in the DOD, something, no. So the idea originated from Joe Felter, you know, and he tapped his local counterpart. And then they came up with this concept of forming a dedicated city unit.

no this city that that basic airborne class became the template for the city unit so because that airborne class consists of you had their sf qualified you had ranger qualified so the idea there was to combine both the ranger and sf in one one unit in order to make to make them cohesive so it became it became the template So after finishing their airborne class, I think in December, they were deployed several times now before that. They were deployed several times. And before the start of the counter-terrorist formal training, they had this selection. And after narrowing it down, they came up with the final list of those who will undergo the city program, city grant. from the State Department through the first Special Forces group.

So that was the that was the procedure. So by I think by May, by March or March 2001, the mobile training team from FSG started arriving to start the training. So the, the Philippine side, Colonel Yamas and Major Shevert, came up with the POI, the instruction and the selection. And then when the SFG first SFG guys came, they brought with them all brand new weapons, brand new nods, brand new, brand new everything.

So they started the training. I think their training lasted for, if I'm not mistaken, five months or more. So, the name LRC was given by was given by the commanding general before a Philippine Socom General Sanciago so according to Sir Ted Tejamas

the name probably came from a unit General Sanjago used to lead back in the 70s because General Sanchauga was part of the of the Philippine police that time, and the police and military at the time were like at that time the police was not a civilian organization. So it was like it was like part of the military organization. And there's a history of coups also that played into the political situation. Yes, yes, definitely. In fact, that LRC before they started their training, they were deployed to Manila. as part of the quick reaction force

during the impeachment trial of former President Estrada. So they were part of that quick reaction force now before their actual training. So when the political situation settled in the Philippines early 2001, they went back to Fort Magsaysai to begin their training.

So the training lasted for, as I said, five months or even more. Then after that, they deployed, they deployed to Basilan. This one, they were deployed there to help in the rescue of Gracia Bornham. They were deployed.

Yes, yes. They were deployed to that area. And they had several missions there. And according to the advisors, the Special Forest Advisors, they saw some they saw some

tweaks needed. Because at the time, it was only a loan company, no. There was no command structure. So it became a problem for LRC, no. Because commanders didn't know. I'm sorry to interrupt, Francis. Just for people who are watching the show, if you're interested, if you go back into previous episodes,

we did one with CIA officer Kent Clisbee and another one with CIA officer Ron Mueller. and they were both in the Philippines during these operations we're talking about right now. So if you're looking for more information, you could also go back and consult those. But go ahead, Francis. Thank you. Okay. So the SF advisors noticed this deficiencies, no, there was no command structure. So the commanders, no, the area commanders, didn't know how to utilize properly LRC.

I even mentioned in the book that according to the first commander, no, bulldog, they were even used as blocking force. Imagine, the top counter-terrorist units using us a blocking force to, you know, to support an operation. So there was really a misallocation of forces during the time. So that's why after the deployment in Basila, the SF advisors went home, and they came up with a, they came this time with a plan to really form a command structure, which will include the addition of two companies and a headquarters company for the to form a battalion. But unfortunately, September 11 took place. So there was a, there was a brief law in that. And so I think they came back in 2002 to start the training of this time,

the offer of the U.S. government was more intense because of that operation and doing freedom. And they really, they really, they really funded, funded the training and the acquisition of equipment for, for these two companies. I'm just throwing up a few pictures there so people can kind of get the idea. Yes, yes. And here they are doing some blue barrel training with some munitions. So I guess, I guess that was your. contribution there, Francis, was the force on force training. Yes, yes, yes.

No, but they've been using that for simulation. They've been using it for, I think from the start since 2001 or early 2000. They've been using that. But unfortunately, that training is very expensive, the cost of, you have to reburial, you have to change the barrel of all rifles, no. And I think the cost is very prohibitive, no, for, for the Philippine setting. So that's why we offer an alternative to that, no? The best alternative.

I think also at this point we should point out that there was the LRC, the light reaction company starting off. And then, you know, just like we went through these growing pains in America too, figuring out how to structure these units. The LRC became the LRB, the White Reaction Battalion. Yes. Today, the White Reaction Regiment. Yes, correct. So they've scaled up just the way we had to with our Ranger battalions, with our Delta squadrons. You know, we kind of figured out that, you know, we needed a certain number of troops to be sustainable.

Exactly, exactly. Same with the Philippines. So after they finished the training that we had received, they immediately came up with the battalion. Then after some bunga siege, the president then, President Aquino realized that they had to scale up again, the battalion because of its, because they saw how effective the unit. In fact, it was LRB that really spearheaded

the Zambwanga siege, they were the main effort in the Zambuanga siege, so they realized the value of scaling up the size of the battalion. So now their regiment, their regiment, their regiment now. And what was the mission of this unit? I mean, I think we talked a little bit about the idea,

but I mean, specifically, were they designed for hostage rescue, for counterterrorism? What was the thought process that went into that? What, primarily hostage rescue and counterterrorism. That's the

I mean, we always associate counterterrorism and hostage rescue in one. So I think that That was the thought process, no. They were primarily, they are primarily

the hostage rescue unit, no? Hold on. I'm going to throw up a picture here of Mr. Yamis, Colonel Yamis.

Yeah, Colonel Yamas. Now retired? Yes, yes. Ted is such a nice guy. I met him in Manila at a Chili's. I'm so sorry I have no class. invited in the Chili's.

And we had some, we had some San Migs there. And, you know, I was, I was really impressed with, um, how smart and professional Ted was.

And he just, he just seemed like all around a nice guy. Like he seems like the type of guy, I would want to serve under in the military. And, and then after, it was very interesting because it wasn't until after our meeting when I met with some of the junior officers that served under.

him that I started to hear about the other side of Ted, the guy who was just like leading from the front, a real combat leader in the thick of it. Just incredible stuff. I really have a lot of respect for Ted. I mean, he's a really good guy. Yeah. Ted is a very articulate, very articulate and a very intelligent man. And I owe a lot to him, no, because when I was writing the history of LR, that's when I met Ted Yamas

when I was starting to write chapter 3 I think of the book so I was introduced to him and you know he told me a lot of things about the history you know the new onesies of creating creating LRC you know and the things they went through and you know one thing I remember he told me

he told me to write the book with integrity I won't forget that told me don't sugar don't sugar quote the stories you tell it the best way you can

make sure you should write it with the integrity yeah no that doesn't surprise me you know coming from Ted yes so what were what were then some of the operations

that before we get into the Zambwanga siege and these are the two big ones that we'll probably end up talking about is Zambwanga and Marawi but before that what were some of the other missions that the LRR or LRC or LRB, depending on the time period, what were some of the types of

missions that they were getting that were coming down to them? Well, there were a lot, no? Actually, I only included the missions from in the book, from 2009 up to 2017, because the rest, below 2009, you know, we couldn't find anymore the records of that, probably destroyed, because they were all on paper back in JSON. So when I was trying to do my research, I was told that he couldn't find anymore the materials. Yeah, but I heard a lot of stories during those periods.

But I couldn't write it because there was no reference. I had to rely on in stories. So I picked only the stories with reference materials I could still use. so most of the missions during during before zambwanga they were all like green green missions no jungle type in the mountains of sulu you had there uh magendanao uh kotato uh mostly mostly in mostly in uh mendanao and uh all this involved you know direct action missions no raid uh interdiction of high value targets. There was one mission

when they had to capture a target at the Davao Airport. It was never reported in the media, but I heard about that, that story. Foreman team captured the target in the Davao International Airport and they whisked them out. I don't know, they brought him somewhere.

He was trying to leave the country? No, no. I think he was trying to go somewhere somewhere else, but he was a finance guy of this group, no, so very, very high value target. They were able to zero in on him and then they were walking at the airport.

They just grabbed him and bought him out. So that's one of the story that I did that include in the book. So, yeah, go ahead, Jack. Oh, I know, I was just going to say, it would be an entirely other podcast to talk about the geopolitics or the Philippines and all the different threat groups

that the Filipino military and police forces face. But I think it is worth pointing out that there are numerous threat groups and you're talking about an archipelago nation that is oftentimes both jungle and mountainous at the same time. Seven thousand islands. Yeah.

So think about how difficult it is for these guys to operate. operate in this environment and to get into these areas where they need to work in a covert or clandestine manner, very, very difficult. Yes, yes, yes. Especially now with all the social media, the access there. So it's very hard to move without being, without being seen. So it's a real challenge for them now. But, you know, I think they're still, I know they're still doing it. We don't know about it, but they're still doing it in, you know, Metro Manila and, you know, they're just there.

Absolutely. So let's get into the Zambwanga siege, which was kind of a watershed moment for, not just for the LRR, but really for AFP in general, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, correct. That was the first major urban operation, I think, after World War II, after the Second World War. And during the Second World War, there was still no AFP. So I think this was the first, major urban battle of the entire AFP, Zamboanga. So can you tell us, you know, lay that situation out how that unfolded, because it was what a rogue MNLF faction that staged that. And the first, as I understood it, there was an intel report that there was like an armada of boats, of pumpboats, heading to Zamboanga,

and Nabsog tried to interdict them to go see what was going on, and they received fire. one of them got killed. I remember I spoke to the guy who was the bullfrog at the time. Ben Rubin, really nice guy. And one of his men was killed in that altercation. And then they realized, oh, wow, this intel is accurate. I mean, could you give us, you know, from your research and your perspective,

what you uncovered and how that battle began? Well, the battle took place. Being a parent can be really challenging. It's normal to feel uncertain about whether. you're doing the right things to raise healthy and happy children. That's why Child and Family Resource Network focuses on connecting pregnant parents and those with kids under the age of five with free support services to help them build confidence in their parenting journey. Everyone deserves to have someone they can turn to for support with parenting. Visit child and family resource

network.org today. Being a parent can be really challenging. Child and Family Resource Network focuses on connecting pregnant parents and those with kids under the age of five with free support services to help them on their parenting journey. Everyone deserves someone they can turn to for help with parenting. Visit child and family resource network.org today. September, I think, second week of September up to the last week. But it started way before that. I mean, the issue there, the issue there was during that time,

the administration then, the Aquino administration, They were about to sign a peace agreement with the M-N-LF. Okay, that's the opposite of M-N-L-F, no. So this is another secessionist group, M-L-F. So I think that pissed off Normiswari, the head of M-N-L-F. So it really pissed him off because he had a standing peace agreement with the government during the Ramos administration, President Ramos, no? So it really picked him off that, you know, they started, I think there was a, they applied for a permit with the mayor of Zambwanga if they could march, like a peaceful rally, peaceful caravan from another place in Maddenau and they will bring it all the way to Sambwanga.

But, you know, because of Sambwanga's experience back in 2001, the same group, no, MNLF did another, like. like a peaceful caravan, and then they took civilian sausages, so Mayor Bing, no, the Mayor of San Buanga, he refused to give the MNLF permit to mount a peace caravan. So I think it started there. And then slowly, even before that NavSU incident, they were slowly inserting, for several months they've been inserting the rogue element by batches.

they brought in their weapons of course discreetly no the the one that was uh encountered by by nobsog i think that was the last batch even before that they were already in place in zambanga and so the the hostilities kicked off with that altercation at sea yes yes yes and then they started marching from from there uh they started marching towards the city hall, the city of government, and the police and I think marine units were able to, were able to block the group. And fortunately, second LRC was at the area during the time. There was some bwanga, they were deployed there.

So they were among the first responders, second LRC. So they did some, you know, some ad hoc counter-sniping operations there. even when the rest of the EEP was still waiting for the O plan from the, or go signal from the government. And you write in some, there are some interesting moments where the LRCs and even, I think, you know, some of the American personnel who are down there at, what is it, Westman Khan, kind of had to do some ad hoc things that maybe they weren't quite authorized to do just yet, but well well actually they were authorized no but but no are you referring to that to that to that

to that uh to that uh isr yeah flying force force protection yes yes i think i think they found they found the loophole in the yeah yeah yeah no they did the right thing they did yeah they did they because west mincom the the the u.s advisors were were were there no and the the the battle area was just was very near So they had the reason to send their ISR assets, to protect actually the Camp Navarro. So it was still within their mandate, no. Others would say, no, because at the time, US was focused on ASG, Abu Sayaf Group. So MNLF was not in their cross size during that time. So to some, it was going out of their mandate.

But actually, it was within their mandate to protect. as first protection to protect the camp where they were staying. So it was all good. So how did the battle begin to unfold? Because at the time there was only three LRCs. Is that right? Yes, yes, yes. So what did you say?

Was it first LRC or second? Second was already there. Yeah, second LRC was there. So it started September 9 and the next day, first LRC and third LRC was at Fort Magsais. during their doing their retraining. So I think they were just about to start or they were about to finish the retraining.

Then first LRC, half of first LRC was in Camp Aginaldo, Manila as the QRF. And the other half was in Davao, the other half of first LRC. So the next day they got the war, no. So they started, you know, they started moving to San Buanga. And during that time, second LRC was the loan, was the vanguard, you know, protecting, protecting actually the area, stopping the MLLF from moving forward. Okay. And then what they had to fly the other LRCs in from Fort Magsaysay? No, three only. Two, two, one in Fort Magsaysay, the third LRC.

So after two days, they all arrived in San Buanga City. And then they started planning there, no? But this was before the official plan of the government, because at the time, they were still undecided what to do, how to how to handle this type of crisis. It was the first time. And fortunately for the Philippines, we had the group of Dan Pamanag, General Pamanag. Yeah, during the time he was the head of J-Sog during the time. So I think he was able to come up with a concept that was eventually approved by the president, but the elders were already deployed forward.

And I should point out that J-Sog is the Philippine version of J-Soc. And General POMOG is a very important figure for the Filipino military because he started Socom, which was, you know, the three units we've been talking about the LRR. There's also the Scout Rangers, there's also special forces. And General POMOngue was a big part. And correct me if I'm wrong here, Francis, bringing them together. as one. Well, when Socom was formed, I think General Pamela was, I think, I'm not sure if he was

part of that, but that was way back, probably. Socom was from, I think, late 90s probably. Late 90s, it was from late 90s or early 2000. So I'm not sure if, I'm not pretty sure if, if, if sure if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if was there. But definitely, Ted Yamas was already the G8. I think it was the G8 of Socom, while his counterpart, the G3, Chevrolet, the one who was part in the formation of LRC, they were part of Socom during that time.

And so how did that pan out when General Pomona and Colonel Yamis, they get on the ground in Zamboanga? How does the battle begin to unfold? Well, they divided some Buonga in, they divided the area in, several what you call it several sectors several sectors yeah they divided in several sectors and it I have to refresh my memory there were several several task groups now you had there the the JSON component that's one task group under said Ted Lamas you have there the three LRCs you have their support navsog and the forward air controllers of the Philippine Air Force those were the J-sog components

and then you have their separate sector the component of uh rangers no i forgot what what battalion but there were rangers there they had their own sectors and finally you have there the you also have you also have there the the regular infantry mechanized units no you also had there the air force components so the the ground conflict actually started started started around 13 I think or 12 when LRC went first and third LRC started deploying so they had their own sectors and you know some Buanga can be the some Wangga can be divided into several skirmishes. There were multiple skirmishes.

So multiple skirmishes in several sectors. That's how to best describe the Samuanga siege. And this was a different type of combat than these units, especially the LRR was trained as a counterterrorism unit, but now they're in combat. You know, like you had alluded to World War II before. I mean, it was more of that style of like a Stalin-Grab. or a battle in Berlin or Paris or some crazy just absolute combat.

This was not like a SWAT team mission. They were really in the thick of it. Yes, yes. It was a multiple direct action missions. With hostages. Yes, with hostages in the middle, around 200 hostages, I think, 194, 96. The biggest problem encountered here by LRR, one of the biggest obstacles I think was the lack of manpower. Because at the time, the three LRCs, I think they only had half strength of a company.

Each LRC, example, you have 60 operators per one company. At that time, they're only operating at half capacity. The three LRCs are. So probably 30 operators per company. So that was one of their major obstacles there. Another thing was, you know, the tactics, no? They had to revise the tactics. They had to adopt to the tech tactics employed by the rogue element of the MLLF.

I think they got it from the tactics in Iraq, in Fallujah. They applied those tactics there in Zambwanga. So LRCs had to adapt on the fly, no? They had to adapt. And part of this was, I don't want to say a failure. Maybe that's the wrong word, but I think part of it was that us, that the American Special Forces trained them

specifically for counterterrorism and this idea that you're in a permissive environment and you're going to be able to kind of lock down the surrounding area and go in and conduct. What most people probably think of is like a SWAT team style operation. But now these guys are in, I mean, this is war. It's like outright warfare in this city.

Full blown. Yeah, full blown. So it was a major challenge, but they were able to adapt. You know, these guys are very adaptable. They were telling me, you know, that the training, you know, the old style dynamic entry. You know, you know that. The dynamic entry, they had to throw it out of the window, no. They had to, you know, modify everything.

And they proved successful during the Zambwanga crisis. How did they go about, you know, like we've been saying, fighting a war in an urban environment, but at the same time they're having to rescue hostages as they push forward. I mean, that's just, I can't think of really a more challenging operational environment. Definitely, definitely. It was, that was why the government couldn't decide. what to do during the initial stages,

they didn't want to do. And General Pomona came up with the priority. He prioritized everything, the priority was hostage rescue. And then you take out all those bad guys. So it became a priority hostage rescue. And I think in Zambwanga, I'm probably, I'm probably dwelling in the realm of speculations.

But from the stories I heard, the rogue elements, the rogue elements would leave hostages, when it was time for them to vacate because of the advancing forces. They left some of the hostages, that's why LRCs were able to rescue a lot of hostages, not only LRCs, but other units. as well, no, but the bulk of that was rescued by the,

back of those was rescued by LRB. And I don't know how they pulled it though, but it was really, it was really a big, big, big challenge, no, for any, for any unit, no? You bring it there and then at the end of the conflict, you have a list of 194 hostages rescued. LR. I was able to rescue around 96 and they turned over 116 surrenders. to, they were able to turn over, and I forgot how many, how many they took down during that conflict, no. But it was, it was held as one of the most successful, hostess rescue mission. In fact, General Pomona got a medal from U.S. Socom for that, from Adelaan McRaven.

He got a medal for that, for allied partners. And General Pomona, I mean, I've heard him compared, you know, Filipinos say, you know, he's like our general, or he's like our Admiral McRaven. He's like that big a figure, um, the Philippines special operations. And,

um, he's a really nice guy too. I, I, I've always enjoyed talking to him. And, um, yes,

I think the great thing about general, Plymoneg is that he is all about embracing the spirit of jointness and believes that all of the services and the units need to work together, which unfortunately in the Philippines, there's a lot of inter-service rivalry, um, between the different units. and he has a vision, you know, for bringing them together.

And I guess that's probably what he'll be remembered for, which, you know, I think is really important. Yes, yes, yes. He's now the undersecretary of one of the departments. Oh, is he? Yes, yes, yes. Department of Social Welfare and Development is the undersecretary of that department. The real thing he was pushing for, too, was that when we talk about SOCOM, it was just Army SOCOM and he was pushing for AFP SOCOM that would bring in the Navy and the Marines and Air Force

like the American SOCOM does. And that's in the process of happening now, isn't it? No, it was implemented. Oh, I'm sorry. It looks like maybe we lost Francis. I hope he pops up again. Oh, there you are. I'm sorry we lost you for one second, Francis. You were about to talk about AFP SOCOM? Yeah, I think it was implemented, like two years back, if I'm not mistaken. So the old Philippine

Army SOCOM no longer exists. So we have now an AFP-wide SOCOM. No, JSOG now is under SOCOM, but the, you know, it still gets confusing, no?

Even if I ask those from LR, they still get confused. on the new very confusing but basically during operation JSOG still

handles the the LRC component of JSOV it's no I'm so glad that they did that and what was oh the other there are some also some actually some humorous stories about Zambwanga

like you talked about the big building the four story building that was like the big holdout for the bad guys in Zambwanga. Yeah, the KGK building. Yeah, and they had to go in and breach the wall. I had never heard that story before. Again, Jack, can you repeat your question? Could you tell us the story about how they breached the wall to get inside and what happened?

Ah, okay, okay. Are you infighting to the first attempt? The first attempt? Because there were four attempts. Okay. So the first attempt, though, they decided to approach KG. from the rear, no, and several meters, I think, probably less than 100 meters. You have there the Samwanga City Medical Center, no.

So what they did, they decided to go through that, no. So they had to open, they had to breach the wall of the hospital, you know, in order to reach, in order to reach the KGK building. so it was like like two in the morning so it was really dark no so they started gritching it and then the first man who entered the bridge no when he jumped he landed he landed on a pool of you call it like a sewage pool yes less like a body of water filled with you know sewage materials no So everyone followed So they were all

They were like like Waste deep Waste deep in a in a sewage water So you know They they all curse the breaches for that But they did They did eventually end up taking the building though right

Yeah after I think after four attempts It was heavily defended It was heavily defended That was the first attempt no So by the time By the time they reached Maybe like 20 meters Before the

Before the building building, they discovered that there was another wall, another wall or another structure separating them from the building. So they had to do another breach. And the problem there was already, it was already like five in the morning. So it was getting, it was getting bright already. So they had to pull out in the group. So that's what happened.

Then the second attempt, they tried to approach it from the side. and I think they had to go through several houses again they were met with heavy resistance and several were wounded during that attempt and they had to go back again plan for another for another attempt

that third attempt they were again repulsed the resistance was really heavy I think I posted a video in I think in Facebook that was a third attempt with the Simba no you can see there the third LRC

assaulting behind the Samba so I'll have to take a look I don't think I've seen it I can send you a video of that you can see there you can see there the the

the platoon sergeants of third LRC in action they were you know motivating the troops to move forward despite the despite the heavy the heavy fire they were receiving and the fourth attempt

this time led by third LRC they were able to bridge it, but by the time they reached the building it was already abandoned. It was kind of an anti-climactic moment. Yes, yes, anti-climatic, yes, correct, correct. So as you said, they freed most of the hostages

and eventually the city was liberated but at a cost that were not very, you know, these units were already under strength And how many men did they lose in Zambwanga? They lost nine operators in Zambwanga. So that's like 10% of their total force, basically. Yes, yes.

But two of this list were officers. I think platoon leaders. It was a big loss for the company commanders. I think there was a story there where the company commanders. commander really broke down and he heard one of his the sniper, platoon leader, I think, or assault platoon leader, like, was killed. What were

some of the big lessons learned that came out of the Zamblanca siege? Well, I think mostly urban tactics, no, how to, how to deal with, how to how to drive in an urban operation. I think LRR are learned

a lot from that, from that experience, which they were able to apply in Marawi. That was, that was, that was, that was one of the major major lessons learned in Zambwanga and I think some I think I saw

one of the reports another thing was lack of equipment that's this one that's one more thing lack of equipment to properly do their job because at the time

they were aside from being underman they were under equip the equipments they were using were still the same equipment donated given by the U.S. forces back in the early 2000. So they had to live with that. It's something that I have noticed not just in the Philippines, but also with our partner forces in Kurdistan, that the soldiers are good. We trained them.

Other units trained them. These guys are very professional and able to do their job. But being a modern counterterrorist operative, you need modern weapons, you need night vision devices, all these sorts of things. And if something happens politically, America changes its mind. Maybe we don't care about Kurdistan anymore. Maybe we're not so interested in the Philippines. Like the things that were going on with the Leahy Amendment. There was a period of time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rubio, one of our politicians, was like cutting funding to the Philippines special operations units. because of things going on with the Duterte administration. But my point there is that when we do that, their guns start breaking down, their nods start breaking down, and these units aren't able to effectively do their job anymore because they don't have the ability to maintain some of these high-tech items that we sell them.

Yes, yes, that's true. That's true. Actually, LR, no, they're getting now better equipment, no. slowly, slowly they're getting upgrades in the equipment, which is a good news, but so far they haven't been getting equipment they really need, no. I think it's something to do with the FMF package coming from the US government. So they're still limited by what the US can give to Philippines. I think a lot of it got held up because,

of the allegations against the Duterte administration and the extrajudicial killings. And it's not fair because in the sense it's not fair that the LR and some of the Philippine special operations units are punished for that because they've kept their hands clean. They're not they're not involved in that kind of stuff. They don't want to get involved in it. And, you know, just my personal opinion, I support. I support the Leahy amendment in the sense that I don't think we should give weapons to work criminals. My point is that these units we're talking about, they've been doing the right thing, but they're getting punished anyway.

And I think that's really unfortunate. I agree with you. Definitely agree with you. So coming out of Zambwanga, I think maybe it's going to take maybe the remainder of the show to talk about Marrawee. I left the Philippines in 2017, and we all talked about Zambwanga. That was a conversation I had with Ted and with General Pomona and others. And then right after I left, Marawi kicks off. And it's like, oh, my God. Could you talk about the run up to that, the rise of ISIS?

What were the precursor missions? It was Operation Haribon, I think, 1 through 3. Yes, yes. there's a story in the book about the first haribon haribone is eagle in english so harrybun eagle one haribon uno that was the first encounter of LR particularly third LRC with the maute group so that was the first time it was I think 2015 or 16 so that was the first encounter with the

Mautee group. And it was followed by Harrybon dos Eagle 2 and Haribon Three Eagle 3. These were all Maute operations, no? Maute conflict, I mean skirmishes against the Maute group, which became the main force during the Marawi crisis. And these early operations, it was similar in the sense that, correct me if I don't remember right, but weren't they like taking over the town hall and raising up the ISIS flag over it or something like this? Yes, yes, exactly. They did it first time in Butig, no, the Butig Town Hall, the Municipal Hall, where they raised their flag there.

And the LRR decovered, no, they captured ISIS flags, no. So I think that was the first time, no, they, they, they raised their flag there. they saw. I mean, that was the first clear proof that, you know, that they were, they were affiliated with the, with the, with the, what was the, the logic of the Mote group that they were first affiliating themselves with ISIS? How did that happen? And then why did they have this idea about like, hey, we're going to take over a city and raise the flag? Like, what, what's the point? It's not, it's not very clear, you know, but the mautte, the group, According to several researches, it's basically a family group, it's a big family syndicate actually.

They were trained in the Middle East, no, Indonesia. They went to school in Indonesia. I think the patriarch of the Mautee was an MILF engineer, I think. So Marawi was really their home turf, no? It was really occupied by Damoute. It's a big, big clan. And the affiliation with ISIS, I can't recall how it started, but ASG, particularly the group of Hopilona, swore allegiance to al-Baghdadi, I think in, after

I think after Harrybon 3, I think 2,000. Abusayev group did that? Yes, yes, Abusayev. Really? Wow. Okay. Yeah, you know, the one of the HVT's killed in Marawi was Isnilon Happilon. He was the head

of the ASG faction in Basila. These are the really radical factions compared to the to the Sulu which are which are usually Kidnam for Ransom but this one, these are real

hardcore so Happy Lon he became the emir of of AIS in the Philippines he was appointed he was appointed by ISIS group

in by the group of al-Baghdadi so he got that appointment he became the emir that's why when they joined forces with when they joined forces with Maute the objective there was to

put up a caliphate in central Mindanao, which was Marawi. Because Marawi is the Islamic city in the Philippines. Marawi is the Islamic city. So they wanted to put up a caliphate in Marawi. Francis, do you think that part of it was that they thought that this was a way to establish their legitimacy? Because back, you know, 2001 or so, Abu Sayyaf group, they had overseas financiers. They had the Saudis through these madrasas who were funding them.

All that got cut off because you guys, because the Filipinos did a good job and, you know, cut a lot of that stuff off and crack down on them. Being a parent can be really challenging. It's normal to feel uncertain about whether you're doing the right things to raise healthy and happy children. That's why Child and Family Resource Network focuses on connecting pregnant parents and those with kids under the age of five, with free support services to help them build confidence in their parenting journey. Everyone deserves to have someone they can turn to for support with parenting. Visit child and family resource network.org today. So a lot of them had to then turn to the kidnap for ransom to generate money.

Was this whole pledging allegiance to ISIS and this idea that they're going to raise the ISIS flag above town hall? Was that an idea to try to attract overseas funding from these groups in Syria or the Gulf states that are funding them? Well, it's highly probable. It's highly probable because during the month's leading to Marawi, we discovered,

I mean, the Philippine, the Philippine intelligence community, security forces, discovered the movement of money here in the Philippines, particularly Marawi, no? They were using the Western Union,

the money transfer facilitation in the Philippines. And I think that's a possibility, but I can't be sure about that. But you see, Happylon is really the group of the group in Basilan. They're the really the fundamentalist, the fundamentalist faction of Abu Sayaf group. So I think that's that's a, that's, that's, that's, one reason, because of their ideology, their orientation, their philosophy, is really to bring back fundamentalism, to introduce fundamentalism in the Philippines. Again, this is like an entire other podcast to get into the history of the Philippines,

the history of Islam and the Philippines, and it's fascinating. But we're going to have to, I think, move on a little bit because it's just such a big topic. Can we talk then about how Marawi kicked off? Because it started with an LRR operation. Could you speak to that a little bit? Yes. Marawi siege was kicked off by, again, another operation to take out an HVT. This HVT was Hopilon.

He was the leader of the Basilan faction of ASG. and during this time he was already the mirror of the the IS the IS affiliated groups in the Philippines so there was there were several

I think attempts no there were several intelligence reports on the whereabouts of of this guy and after several attempts you know this guy was really elusive

so they couldn't pin them down. Finally, this Intel report came from Naval Intelligence. So it was the Naval Intelligence who furnished the brigade, I think the brigade and eventually LRC, the Intel about this, no? So they received, I think, the Intel evening. And then they had to really plan quickly how to execute it. And they had to execute it in the, I think in the morning.

But the LRC commander there, the LRC involved was Fort LRC. The LRC commander there was apprehensive because, you know, there were so many missing details in the intelligence report. So there were, these were all, the report was, was according to him, no, the report was full of generalization. So he wanted it more, he wanted it to be more definite. And then, so he asked, he asked the, the, the, the, the, the, if they could, if they could bring him to, to the actual, actual location, no. So, he accompanied them, but unfortunately, they, they, they, I think, I think, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, because of some, you know, because of some, you know, that probably they were, yeah, he was. he was afraid that they might be discovered there. So in short, Fort LRC entered or rather implemented the mission with so many missing details, no,

but they had to do it because, you know, they were instructed to do it. It was time sensitive. Yes, it was very time sensitive, no, because I think the asset there was positive that Happy loan was inside that structure. And which was later on confirmed, that it was really the hideout of Happy Loan during that, during the time. And so they decided to execute this operation. They went in there, and it kind of turned into a bit of a mess, didn't it?

Yes, correct. Exactly. Okay, so I don't want to spoil the book, but it's so, okay to no but uh so what happened was this no so um when they arrived there they tried to breach it using uh the it was it was a multi multi-door apartment like uh there's the gate yeah yeah like three like four main gates but there were only three apartments so three doors but there were four main gates so that their target was was the last gate, last or second to the last gate. So what they did, they tried to bridge it using an RPG.

So what happened? So it made the hole, no? So it was not a successful breach. And the second attempt, they tried the water breaching charge, no? The water impulse charge. Water impulse charge, no. But by the time they did that, no, everyone was already aware that they were there. So they entered the structure and during the first alvo, two operators were hit right away, you know.

They were killed, like kid on the spot, now, the two operators. And then, so they had to, they had to recover. because the the apartment was was filled with further estimate around 25 25 bad guys no or more no so it was filled with you know they had they had 7.662 machine guns there i think they also had 50 calibers there so so for ellers you had to pull out now had to had to had to had to regroup not pull out had to regroup so they stayed outside the outside apartment door. So they were there for the whole night, I think. They were, they were on stronghold position outside the apartment door. And then the support came, no, the armored personal carriers, they started engaging the bad guys. They were all holed up at the second floor. So if you will see the picture, you will see the host only there at the second floor. There were no, Yes, yes, yes. I think it's in the...

Did I send you the picture? Oh, I don't know if you did or not. I don't recall seeing that one. But I'll put up some of the other pictures for people to look at. Yes, yes. So if you will look at the pictures, you will see there, the bullet holes were all on the second floor. The ground floor was really clear.

There were no bullet marks, there were bullet holes. So eventually, after, I think after... I think they were there for... two days, two days, yeah, two days. So by the time they, by the time they were able to recover the structure, the group of Apillon already left, no, they were able to escape using the rear exit, no. And what's interesting there was that the rear was supposed to be guarded by their supporting effort. you had their, I think you had NavSog, you have, you have rangers.

I don't know what happened, no? So all of them escaped there. And that was the start. So what happened? When they pulled out, it became like, so they had to pull out. They had to travel from that area all the way to Kampara now, probably a distance of two kilometers. according to their description, it was like the operation in Mogadishu when the U.S. forces pulled out from that area to return to that

the 10th Mountain Division camp or something. The soccer stadium. Yeah, the soccer stadium. Yeah, the scenario was very similar when they were telling me their stories, it was like that. So they had to dismount from the vehicles, and they had to secure the they had to secure the route. So they,

they, it was a long, it was a long, I think it was a long travel, probably took them two or three hours. It just seems like one of those missions were like, everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong on that one. Yes, yes. That's why the title, go ahead, go ahead. Oh, well, I was just going to say, um, you know, how did, how did that lead to a full blown urban siege?

And I know that there's, there's like some intel they did pick. up on the objective if you could talk a little bit about how all that spun up. Yes, yes. Yes, the video shown all over the social media, the video of the top three, the top HVT's planning, it came, it was recovered during that mission. You had their happy loan, maute, and the Malaysian, the Malaysian guy. They were all their planning. So what happened was, I think this mission preempted,

preempted the move of this ISIS affiliated group. It preempted them. They were supposed to do it, I think, during Ramadan or after Ramadan. They were supposed to do it. So because of this mission, they had to do it earlier. So there was not there was there was there was no sufficient planning on their part I think they were they were also caught by surprise by the by the with that mission So it pre-empted them out actually so this was this was already a plan that they had in place

Yes yes they were planning to take over Kampra now the schools there the government facilities The the water water facility everything it was a whole, it was an entire takeover of the whole, and so how long was it after this initial mission before they started doing that? Well, they, they tried to do it right away. They tried to do it. That's why when, when, when, when, when that mission was happening, LR, back and forth, my, was already organizing their, their movement, no? So they were already organizing their movement.

And that's why when you look at the storyline of Marawi, after that mission, there were several incidents where this group tried to occupy several structural schools, the burnt churches, so they all came out. They all came out, and fortunately, government forces were there. You had their infantry, you know, infantry, you have their police, you have their mechanized units.

So they were able to somehow you hold that advance. So we're able to prevent the spread of that group. And how did now, by now, from Zamblanca tomorrow, now we have six LRCs. How did they, what was the response? What do you mean? What was the response? From the LRR.

I mean, how did they, how did they mobile? mobilize, get in there, and begin fighting back. Ah, okay, okay. So the first to move was six and third LRC together with the sniper platoon of fifth LRC. At that time, Fifth LRC was the counter-assault team of the Presidential Security Group. fifth LRC where your friend is used to be the commanding officer so he was he were at Malacanyang so they had to pull out the sniper platoon and bring and bring that platoon to Marawi together with second and six LRC so that was their movement then

after that they were followed by by third LRC together with the command element of LR I mean they brought the entire commander, even the regiment commander. And the final LRC to arrive was first LRC. So that was their order of movement. And you talk about in the book how I don't have a map of Morrowie in front of me right now, but I guess the city is bisected by a river and there's only three bridges going across. Yes, yes. You have their Bayabba, what's the name?

Banguolo, Bangu, Bayabow, Mapandi, and. I forgot the other bridge. There were three bridges, separated by a stream or a river. And this became like a, you know, as you say a fatal funnel, right? It became a very difficult area for them to traverse and push deeper into the city.

Correct, correct. That was the initial decision of the, of J-Sog there during the time. That was the initial move. I think they were they they decided to cross that in order I think to reach no if I'm not mistaken in order to reach the trap that trap M135 I think there was a trap M135 somewhere so they had no choice but to cross that bridge that Bangolo bridge they had to cross it so the the company to cross that bridge was first six LRC and

well, that picture is, that's Campra now. That's what? That's Campra now. Right, right. And this is where the snipers were up in here, right? Yes, yes. That's where they got their longest kills from that area. So anyway, going back, so the first to cross was 6 LRC.

So when they entered the structure, you know, the first structure in the left. a green building. It was filled with the, you know, with bad guys. So, you know, they stayed there for several days, like, um, I think four, four

days, five days. Because they were, they were surrounded. So that's why third LRC had to reinforce them. That was, that was, that was their story. So it was, uh, it was quite a experience according to

with some of their members when I interviewed them and they lost two to one assault three day and one officer during that during that assault yeah it sounded you know the way you described it in the book they were taking a lot of fire and they're having a lot of difficulty moving deeper into the city and I guess the the problem was that they didn't really have

mutually supporting like a unified assault line across the city because of those bridges yes yes yes it limited their advance that's why they called it a fatal final imagine it stopped entire battalion

you can stop entire battalion through that through that bridge nobody would be able to cross it if those IIS guys really decided to make a stand nobody could cross that

so how did they begin making progress how did they overcome this challenge well they decided they decided another approach they decided to take another approach it was the it was the concept made by then commander of LR

General Macario is now retired so it was his idea to to approach from the to outflank them know to approach from the other side like an encircling maneuver so in a way they would

they would bypass those three bridges. And it became, it became, it became the, it became the, it became the movement, no, of the entire, of AFP, until the end of Marawi. That became their, their, their, their access of advance. I think it was shown in the map, the map I, I attach in the book. There was a map there. I'd have to pull it up. And I'm sorry, I don't have it here where the, the houses are all numbered and everything. So, yeah, if you read the book, it's, it's, it's much clearer.

in there. I posted the link in the chat and I'll put it down the description after we're done here. Again, the book is Tiradoras and we're here with the author tonight. If you're just joining us, Francis Villanueva. He wrote a whole history about the light reaction regiment that we're discussing tonight. So back tomorrow week. Let's get into the snipers a little bit because there's a lot of interesting stories there with the sniper elements getting deployed down to Marawi, the interaction with Marsock guys who were down there, and kind of like how all of that kind of fit together. I thought that was very intriguing. Yeah, yeah. The major character there in Marawi, one of the major characters there,

if you will, you will know, you will recall it's Gulf Treino. So we had this concept, of when the Marawi cries spoke out, he had this concept of creating a regiment-level sniper task group. Because usually snipers are usually embedded with the companies. Each company, they have their own sniper platoon. So these sniper platoons, they move closely with the assault platoons. so per per observation of

golf three he noticed that you know because of the because of the layout of Maragi or the layout

there was they were limited those snipers were limited they were they were severely limited because of the

proximity so they had they really had to move back. So that's why Gold 3 came up with this concept. They would stay far from the battle area so they could observe. And from there, they could interdeck and suppress targets, which I think proved very effective during the crisis. And nobody knows actually what they did, no, even even within LR, even within the companies. Nobody knew what they did until you read the book. Because they were just there. They were just there. The book tells so many stories that I knew nothing about

or even things that I knew I was superficially aware of, but I didn't know any of the details until I read your book. So what were some of the more impressive shots that you came across when you were interviewing these guys. What do you mean, sniper shots? Yeah, because they were setting up high sites in different places and... Actually, a lot, especially.

No, in the early stages, you would see there, it was all over social media, the one, the technical they engaged. No, it was all over, when it happened, like after a few words, it was all over Facebook. I saw that. And at that time, I didn't know it was fifth LRC, until I was writing the book

I realized it was fifth LRC during the early the first few days of Marawi that they were there straight from Malakanyang from the presidential security group they were

transported there and that one and they also have the the crossing I think that that involves the the 20 bad guys

trying to cross the streets and the sniper task group they were waiting for them so it was like Turkish shoot according to them and the most impressive I think was the long distance shots because you know the weapon used was not in

the AFP's inventory so you know the gun that it's called the LRFC member nicknamed it Wintermelon after you told me it was a type of tea? Yeah, it's a milk tea. It's a milk tea flavor in the Philippines.

And it was, it was, it was, it was very impressive because first, we do not have that in the inventory. Second, they, they got to train with that, with a similar system with another allied partner. when they were doing cross-training with an allied partner. So that was their exposure. There was no actual training, like long-term training with that weapon. So Francis, stop beating around the bush here. What kind of weapon was it, and where did this thing come from, that the LRC got to grab this thing up and use it in combat?

Jack, you're spoiling the book. No, this isn't in the book. You didn't say. Yeah, yeah, it's inside and side. Do I have to say it here? It's up to you. I don't mind. Okay, well, the book was, I mean, the, that rifle was, was borrowed from the Marsok team. Okay. So it was a windmug, 300 windmug from the Marsok team.

And, you know, Golf 3 had to beg, had to beg, no, when they went to Campra now, when they decided to... There you go. Yes, yes. Yeah, that picture isn't Campra now. Yeah. When they decided to, because I think it was in August or late August, Golf 3 and his group realized, you know, that they were no longer seeing bad guys there, you know.

and they noticed like there were several several what you call it several like galvanized steel plywood blocking blocking crossings blocking intersections

so the bad guys were using it to cross so we're using it as a cover to cross so from their hide they couldn't see anything so they decided to transfer to Kampra now to see what was happening and then from Kampra now they saw all the movements they saw all the the movements of the bad guys using using those those crossings there are those covered crossings and at the distance uh like more than a kilometer no there was no there was no weapon

yeah yeah but i think i think the according to goals So they could still reach that for their training. But the limitation there was the scope. The scope was the limitation there. And they needed to be precise. And then I think golf three checked with this counterpart, I think it's from an order. He checked if they have a weapon system

that could reach that distance. And then he was referred to this to this Marsok guys. And so they got a little loan me gun out there. Yes, yes. On the two-way range. Yes, and some targeting equipment. And how did the 300 windmank work out for those guys? Oh, you know, they described this as a slight laser.

Yeah, you know. So, so like people who don't know, I mean, most sniper rifles, the SR-25s they had, the M-24s, they fire the 7-6-2 round, which is a good round. but once you get out to a kilometer, it gets a little iffy. I mean, especially with wind and environmental factors. With the 300 wind mag, it's a bigger, it's like the bullet's like that big, and it has a much flatter trajectory.

So it's really like a freight train just heading down range. And, you know, as we write about Francis, these guys were able to reach out and touch some bad guys at like, how far out were they killing these dudes? Almost 1.2 kilometers, almost, almost. and it's in pitch black condition. They never use it during daytime. They only use it from, they start their interdiction duty from 6 p.m.

until 5 a.m. the next morning. So it was all night, all night activity. And I also thought it was interesting how many of the sniper engagements were coordinated fires. So there were like three snipers and there was a controller that was, given them the like ready, ready, ready, fire, you know, when they were all on target. Exactly, exactly.

That was one of the, one of the, one of the ideas of Gold Tree, of Gold Tree to establish that coordination between, between snipers from different heights. They can be independent, but when required to do something specific, they all work as one, one, one. team, one group. Imagine you have there 16 snipers all working together. I mean, that's, that's an abatable combination. On that note, though, I want to ask you, Francis, just your thoughts on it, having done so much research, I think that in, in Marroway, and I think you could make the same argument for many of the urban battles in Syria, that we've seen, perhaps you could describe it almost as an over-reliance on snipers. And That's my opinion, but I think there's a reason for it,

and I think that if those forces in those battles had access to more indirect fires, like artillery and motors and airstrikes, that you would not see the reliance on snipers that you have seen in some of these recent battles. Yes, yes. The situation in Marawi is kind of tricky, no. because you have there, there was a need to, not to destroy the area, no. Eventually it happened, though, like most of the structures there were destroyed, no. But initially, the instruction there was tried to preserve as much as possible the structures.

That's why they, like LR, they had to rely heavily on their sniper task group. No, they didn't want to just order indirect fire on the structure, no, because you know eventually the the owners of that the residents of Maraui would eventually bear the brunt of that that's true too of that action and what is the the composition of the Filipino Air Force

because as I recall they don't really have a lot of you know ground capability to drop bombs well I'm not an expert on that But they also played the big role in Marawi, close air support. They played a big role there. But of course, not as high tech as Western nations, but they did with, they may do with what they have during the time.

And I think they prove effective, considering the limited equipment in training that they have. Yeah, no, I don't mean to take cheap shots at the Filipino pilots or anything like that. I was just saying that, I mean, the Philippines doesn't have like F-16s and things like this. No, no, no, no, no, no. We don't have that. I think we're still planning. We're still planning to get some, no, but I'm not an expert to comment on those stuff, Jack. Yeah, no, I understand.

So the snipers are out there. They're doing God's work. the LRCs are slowly pushing forward. Do we want to talk about the Grand Mosque? Because that was like kind of the next, like the central engagement of Marawi, wasn't it? Yes, the Grand Mosque was one of the, one of the two major objectives of the AFP during Marawi.

So the Grand Mosque was the, it's no, it's no, as the Islamic Center, I think it's a place of study. And at that time, there were three LRCs, around Grand Mosque. While the two LRCs were planning, the third LRC, it's the actual six LRC, the two other LRCs were first LRC and fourth LRC, so the six LRC, because of their aggressive

commanding officer Azrael who was a West Point graduate, very aggressive guy. So what he did, when he asked his voice if they could take it because it was just like

five meters across from their position. So they decided to just clear the structure and they requested for support from the two other companies. And they were able to clear it in a matter of very quickly, very quickly.

Because in Marawi, the six LRC was really known to be very aggressive and very efficient in clearing structures. It's a well documented facturing Marawi. And they were able to clear it in probably one R. and the first and the second floor, and there were no hostages. So it was partially abandoned when they took over it. And then we have the other major objective, no,

the Batom Mosque, you call it Baton Mosque. That was one major engagement and six LRC lost lost, lost an operator there. And it took them two attempts to get it. And going back to Grand Mosque, when they were able to, I think when President Duterte visited Marawi, that was the day when Six LRC took Grand Mosque.

And that's why, you know, AFP was able to report to Duterte, that they were able to get one of the major objectives of the of the of the of the uh battle and now going back to baton mosque it was a well it took them two attempts to to to get bottom mosque and uh it was surrounded no the it was surrounded by structures filled with uh filled with insurgents so it was really a tough one uh this picture is really interesting. I'm going to put it up right now. Could you tell us what's going on in this picture right here? Oh, that one is the final battle.

Where that's the hide. That's the final hide of the sniper task group. You will see there on the right, that's Gulf 3. On the left, on the left is one of his senior snipers there. So they were engaging the final, the remnants of this group. They decided to make a final stand. It's like a mosque. They all stayed at the basement.

So they decided to make a final stand there. So this was the battle. This one was I think building 1010 or 1018. maybe I'm getting confused and the target was at building the other building about 70 meters away so they were all they were all they were all they were all the bad guys were under the

basement and you know if you if you will read the story there you know the it was a it was another turkey shoot for them and so as we're getting into the final battle too of of Marrowie

the story the you know it had been I knew it as a rumor I guess you could say that the LRR killed HVT number one what's his face epilison hapilon happy on thank you um do you want to talk about that at all Francis or do you think we should leave that for the book if people want to go and read it no I think I think it's all over well it was all over social media when when I think happened, though, and everyone was, everyone was taking credit,

no, and, yes. Yeah, everyone was taking credit. And, you know, what,

what, you know, Gulf Street instruction to, because goal three was the highest, highest, ranking officer there in Marawi, no,

for the LRA, you know, he was the ranking, uh, senior officer there on, on, inside the main battle area. So he told,

specifically told this man, no, no posting, social media. no posting after that that takedown of hvt number one and two so you know all the while they kept quiet and uh if you will if you will if you read the book you will see there there was there was a fact-finding like like a investigation or something no uh if you read the book so they officially came the the the army officially came up with the with the acknowledgement of who really shot

HVT1, HVT2. And it was supported by forensic evidence, conducted by the police, no, PNP. And I think it settled, it settled the story. Who really took down those two? And it's in the book. I don't want to spoil the... Yeah, like, like I said, I had heard the rumors about it,

but I had never heard the full story until I read it in your book, actually, earlier today. it's definitely like I said this book is definitely worth to read and I think that the people who watch this show people are interested in special operations and special operations history are really

missing out if they're not going to go and read your book no Francis there's something else you wanted to say there did you read about the story about the Chinese rifle yes you know that

that also became very controversial. Yeah. Yeah, Chinese rifle, no? Well, when it came, I think it was, wanted to use it. Nobody wanted to use it in the AFP. And when Gulf III heard about that Chinese rifle was at Fort Magsai,

he told this one of his junior, you conduct zero and then send it to Marrawe, we'll do field zeroing here. So that's what they did, no? They came up with a card for that. And they immediately used it, no, as a backup. Because I think one of their SR-25s broke down. Because the guns have been around.

They've been using them continuously since like 2002. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And one of the SR-25, I think, broke down. And it's a good thing. The Chinese rifle was there. And you know, that rifle was able to, I think it got three kills, no? Got three kills. Then after that, I think the AFP got it back, and I don't know what they did with that.

And there was also a story, you know, a story that the Chinese rifle was used to take down HVT1 and HVT2. I think there was a news before here in the Philippines the Chinese rifle was used well that's not true it was really an American rifle

SR 25 that was used to take down HVT1 and HBT2 and I think Gulf 3 made it clear you know when he when President Duterte visited LR he told me he told he told the president that those were the guns

that took down HVT1 HBT2. Finally, settling the issue of what really took down HVT1 and HBT2. And you wrote in the book that that Chinese rifle,

a Norinko sniper rifle, that Duterte gave it to Premier G? Xi Jinping. Yeah, yeah, I think, I think, I think, I think it was given us a gift,

no, probably to show that it, it was used during Marawi. And you know, you know, this rifle, it's still being used in LRR, you know, they've been hitting targets at one kilometer consistently using this rifle. Really?

Yeah, that's true. That's true. They've been using it. And I think they're able to maximize the, but I think the problem there is the suppression. It doesn't have a capability to be suppressed, no? That's one limitation. And I'm glad you brought this up too because this place into the whole. the Philippines kind of being trapped in between the United States and China.

That we, our government is saying at the moment, hey, we're not going to give these weapons to the Philippines because there's some human rights issues going on. The Chinese are like, we don't care. We'll give you what America. America doesn't want to play. Hey, here we come. And they gave this big weapon shipment to the Philippines during the Maraoui crisis.

And it was like this big PR coup for the Chinese. They did the same thing in Italy with the coronavirus. they sent all these doctors over there and they're like Chinese flags everywhere like oh look what a great job we're doing hey we're here to help and you know this guys they don't care about politics

whatever is there they'll take it they'll use it to increase their letality to make them more efficient you know they don't care about it I don't blame the soldiers for you know they have to do whatever they have to do to get the job done yeah

so that final battle and how does that final battle end? The LRR crushes whatever's left of of ISIS, Philippines? Yeah, I mean, wait, I'll go over my record that, but the final

with that. So, yeah, well, you find the records. Guys, I just want to thank everyone joining us live tonight. Thanks for watching the show. Please remember to subscribe to the channel if you haven't already

and hit that little bell icon so you get notified when we go live next time. And, you know, give us a thumbs up or a thumbs down if you think we suck. Leave some comments for us. Tell us what you think we can be doing better, what you like, what you don't like. And there's also a link to our Patreon down below if you're interested in supporting the show financially. We really appreciate that. Okay, Jack, I have now the... Okay.

What do you got for us? So the final battle lasted for five days, no, non-stop, 24. hours. So after that final battle, at building 1010, the STG group had 32, because there were three sniper groups deployed during the time. There was the STG using that hide. There was the second LRC snipers and then you have the third LRC snipers. So that group, STG, they got 32 and that final battle, the second LRC got 22, while third got 10. Now, if you will add the 32 of STG to their previous hides, I think they got a total of almost 100 confirmed kills. About 80% of this were at night. So this was done using, you know, SR 25 because they stopped using M24. Because the, the

M24 they had during the time that for cannot be fitted with the suppressor you know so they they limited their use to so it's like SR25 so this were done using SR25s and three kills from the child with the wind mag and so that was it. I mean, the Marawi siege, I mean, it drug on overall. How long did it drag on for, like three months? No, five months. Five months. Good God. Yeah, five months. From May to, from last week of May, up to last week of October for five months. And I remember they brought General Pomonick down and put him

in charge again, didn't that? Yes, he became the task first commander of, I think Tarish Marawi, he became the head ahead of that, to unify the effort there. I mean, it's an incredible story. I mean, let's go back to the question. Were there any big lessons learned from the Maroese siege? Well, tactical speaking a lot. We think about tactics. We learned a lot.

you know the big the big the big the big the big surprise there was the I was just talking the other day to an EOD who was deployed in Marawi and man the the the IED is encountered there were really you know the the the techniques on the the how they the manufactured that came from came from Syria Iraq so they were really surprised with the amount of IED is there scattered all over the area. And I think the big lesson there,

again, we go back to the tactics in urban warfare, close quarter combat, even LR had a hard time during the time, close quarter combat. And, you know, they were complaining, most of them were complaining that they couldn't see the enemy. They couldn't see the bad guys, no? Like when you usually think about close quarter battles.

You would see their room engagement. In Marawi, you know, it didn't happen. That was not the case. Bad guys would run the moment, you know, they see assaulters about to enter structures, no, they would vacate the place. And they would use, you know, subterranean tunnels, you know, holes in between houses,

you know, the useful stuff. So it was really a big challenge, no. And do you think that, you know, after the LRR and AFP really gave these guys the business in Maroli, do you think the Mote Group could ever launch an attack like this again? Well, personally, I think it will take, it will take some time. To mount another event like this, it will take time. I think they were, they really lost that conflict.

and intelligence efforts now are really on top of things now. And everything is being monitored now, very strict, especially with the passing of that anti-terrorism law in the Philippines. What was that law? What is it due? Well, it's about it is an old law, but it was amended, no? I'm not actually familiar with the specifics now, but it's a it's a the procedure, the legal procedure and how to, how to indict and prosecute,

terrorists, those found to be involved in terrorist activities. So it's more on the, more on the legal process. Okay. So I had a couple questions here from viewers. One of them, Andrew asks, was the Philippine constabulary he was talking about with non-civilian police. I think that was earlier

when we were talking about the formation of LRC. Yeah, correct, correct. What was the question? I think he was talking about back in the old days when the police and the military were not necessarily separated.

Correct, correct. He's asking about the constabulary force. Yes, he used to call that Philippine constabulary. That's correct, that's correct. And let's see, what else do we have here? General Kran, thank you. you, sir.

T-bar, what type of fire support did the LRR have available to them? I saw what looked like a 60-millimeter, a motor in one picture. Did they have aviation or already available? You mean just for LR or for the entire? I think he's probably talking about Morrowie if they had that kind of fire support available. Yes, yes, definitely We had their artillery We had air support, close air support

And artillery, then we had Specifically the sniper task group They had their own mortar team To conduct in the wreck fire And there are some pretty good stories In Francis's book about using water fire To suppress the enemy Actually, when there's an enemy

sniper and they called that was a good story yes yes yes yes uh Carlos glad you're finally on attorney Francis thanks for featuring this book track hope you feature more pH special operation stuff as it becomes available

and I will keep supporting on Patreon thank you Carlos I'm all about it you know I love the Filipino units I think what they're doing is fascinating they won me over so to speak when I went over there and met those guys.

So again, that's why I'm so happy that Francis was able to write this book and rightly credit these guys and, you know, the sacrifices that they made. Speaking of which, Francis, how many men did LR. LR lose in Marawi? In Marawi, they lost 12 operators in a span of, yeah, five months. So, I mean, it could have been much worse, I suppose, given the intensity of the fighting. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But still, I mean, 12 men in a small unit is quite high.

Yes, yes. So, Francis, I should have asked this really at the beginning of this stream rather than at the very end. But sometimes I make mistakes as an interviewer. I wanted to ask you, you know, if you could tell us a little bit about the huge beings behind this unit. Like who are the guys who join the LR? What are they like as people? Why do they end up in an elite military unit like this? Wait, I'm losing you, Jack. Can you repeat the last question? Yeah, yeah. I was just asking if you could tell us a little bit about the men of the LR. Like, what type of person joins this unit? What are they like? Well, you have to be, first, you have to be, you have to be adrenaline junkie, no? an individual, male individual to enter LR, he has to be at least ranger qualified or special

forces qualified. So that's a, that's a non-negotiable requirement. And, but that doesn't automatically mean that they will be included in LR, you know, before they can go through selection, they have to, I think they have to be, they have to be, they have to be, they have have an experience of two years as a ranger and as sf qualified and you know the training to become a ranger is in itself really you know i think you've heard you've heard stories about the scout ranger training in the philippines no and and the test missions that's one thing the philippines does that we don't have in america yes yes the final exam is a combat operation yes in marawi they deployed, I think, several test mission classes.

The scout ranger deployed class 200 and class 200. Oh, my God. And class 201. And the special forces, the one undergoing the Special Forces operation scores, they deployed also, I think, several classes there. I think one or several. So, I mean, before they become full-fledged scout, before they become, they can become full-fledged scout rangers or special forces,

they have to survive this mission. and without even without Marawi they still go on test missions like one month sometimes one month in an actual operation in actual AO

and you know some you know at times you know they some of them do not do not return you know life

and they they get the the Ranger special forces Stub posimos and you know so you

You have to be an SF or SR to be an LR. And then you have to undergo two years before you can be admitted for selection. Either two years as a member of an LRC as a support guy. And then you can go to selection. And selection is another story. And I heard right now, I heard from a recent candidate there, no? I interviewed him personally.

He told me, sir, I would rather go through S-R-S-R-South than go through LR selection. So it's really that difficult. I think they really made it, made it tougher now, no? I think they patterned it after the Australian counterpart. Ah, of the S-AS selection. Yes, yes, the selection. Andrew's asking, can you speak more generally about the Filipino perception of the U.S. military? Oh, that's a very, very broad question.

About the U.S. military, well, we're, Philippine military is basically pattern after, you know, U.S. military. Basically, no, we're pattering after them, and then, what can I say? What can I say about that? I'll kick it off, Francis. If you want to understand the relationship between the Filipino military and the U.S. military, go to the cemetery in Manila, where you see the Filipino and the American soldiers

are buried together from World War II. Yes, yes. Yeah, it's really an incredible experience. And, you know, our relationship goes back a long time, and it can't be broken by, you know, any one American president or any one Filipino president, you know, we're very tight with them. Exactly, precisely, precisely. Very deep relationship.

Yeah, and like you said, there have been guys who go to our special forces training, who go to West Point, you know, we do so much cross-training. What is the yearly exercise, Balakatan? Well, there's a lot, actually, several. Balakatan is the, I think it's the general exercise. but then you have unit specific exercises. Like before, as I can recall, the exercise is specific for SFG, first SFG and LR, I think was vector balanced piston,

if I recall it correctly. And there's also balanced piston, and then you have a lot, a lot of exercises. Francis, if I can twist your arm a little bit to stay with us for a bonus segment afterwards for like 10, 15 minutes. I have just a couple anecdotes or a little short stories from your book I'd like to hear about. But before we get going here on this episode tonight, I mean, any final thoughts about your book that you'd like to say? Anything about the LR, future projects that you'd like to tell us about? Well, first, Jack, I want to thank you for this time. it's a really an opportunity to push the book,

especially in the Filipino community abroad, the States, a lot of Filipinos there. And the book is all about, you know, it's not about politics, it's all about, you know, patriotism, love for the country. And, you know, you know, these guys, they usually, you know, without the stories, they usually end up as numbers.

statistics. Right. So, I mean, this book is my way of, you know, of giving an alternative to that option. They're not just statistics. They're humans, no. They have feelings, no, they have families. They have all the problems we have. So I'm hoping that through this book, I would be able to show the readers, that side of the men of the men of LR.

And I'm happy to say that I was able to come up with this book. And I'm very privileged to have been given this chance, no, by the regiment to write something about them. But of course, protecting their operational security, personal security, those were the major considerations. And I think it turned out okay. and I wish more more people would look into the book and see for themselves that the Philippines have this light reaction regiment ready to defend the country

from foreign and internal domestic threats. That's it, Jack. Thank you again for this time. It's an honor, Jack, thank you. Yeah, no, likewise, Francis, I can only reiterate what you said. It's an honor for me to be able to hear these stories about our Filipino partners. And I will take any opportunity to better inform, you know, Americans or anyone else out there about our partners and our friends over in the Philippines.

People should know about them, the sacrifices they make. And that, you know, sometimes we have in the States, we can get like a negative feeling about the foreign groups. that we work with, the foreign militaries, you know, the green on blue incidences in Afghanistan where we train these guys and then they shoot our soldiers. Yes, that's not what's happening in the Philippines. It's a totally different environment. No, no, no, far from that.

Far from that. And we have some really strong allies and friends in the region, and I just want, you know, American citizens to understand that and know that these are endeavors that are worth supporting. Thank you. Thank you, Jack. Thank you for that. For those words.

Absolutely. So next episode, next Friday, we're going to be talking to Ken Miller. Ken was a warp in Vietnam, a warp ranger, the Long Range Reconnaissance Patrols, and then he was in the Ranger Ranger companies also when they transitioned over. So Ken Miller is the real deal. I'm very excited to talk to him. And that'll be next Friday. And like I said at the beginning of this show, Dave and I will post up a message. He wants to record a short video for you guys this week. So we'll have that for you on the channel as well. So thank you, Francis.

Thank you everyone who joined us tonight. And we will see you next week.