The Texan Podcast - A Conversation with Comptroller Glenn Hegar — The Texan's 89th Session Kickoff

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

Texas Comptroller Glenn Hegar joined The Texan’s Senior Reporter Brad Johnson for a discussion on the state’s financial outlook, infrastructure investments, and his political future.Listen to more interviews from our 89th Session Kickoff wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you hear, subscribe and leave us a review.

Good morning, everybody. My name is Brad Johnson, senior reporter here at the Texan. We are lucky to have Comptroller Glenn Hager here with us today. First of all, if you have coffee, please put a lid on it. That way we do not spill in this very nice auditorium. Comptroller, you're fresh off a day of rattling off numbers in the Senate Finance Committee. Is your head still spinning? No, not at all. I'll tell you, but you never know what question they're going to ask you. That's for sure. Anything stump you over there? What is that? Anything stump you? Oh yeah. Everything's good over there right now. Sessions going. They're busy. They have money to spend. They're trying to figure out those priorities, make sure that, you know, continue to invest in the state of Texas.

And hopefully, as one member just asked, find any more money. And I was like, even if the economy continues to improve, you're not getting any more money. No is the answer. We'll get to the budget, but first I want to ask you to give us a lay of the land of the Texas economy, both financially for the state and just commercial activity generally. Yeah, one of the points that I try to make over and over, regardless of whatever speech that I give, is to remind people that this morning when you woke up, there was another roughly 1,600 people that called Texas home this morning than were here yesterday morning when you woke up. The number used to be 1,200, and over the course of the last few years, we have more people that are moving to the state. Obviously, a big portion of that is natural growth, births minus deaths, and then also people moving from the other 49 states as well as around the world. And if you think about that continued growth that Texas has had for the last decade,

and then in addition to one of the points that I make, when I first got in this role as controller 10 years ago, I would go around and brag, you know, as a sixth-generation Texan, you like to brag about your state, talk about the good things. And I would brag that if Texas was its own nation, don't get any ideas, but if we were, we would have been literally the 12th. Not endorsing the Texas bill. Well, you know, I did throw it out there. But at the time,

we would have been the 12th largest economy in the world. And then fast forward in 10 years, I've had to stop saying 12 because we moved to 11, had to stop saying 11 because we moved to 10, stopped saying 10 because we moved to nine. I had somebody introduce me a few months ago. They said, oh, Glenn Hager, he's a CFO of the world's ninth largest economy. And I got up and I said, well, that was last year's bio. Because this year says we're the eighth largest, which is pretty phenomenal. So that's the point in summation. If you look at people continue to move here, businesses continue to move here, businesses continue to stand up. And why? Because they're looking for an economic opportunity for themselves and for future generations. And that's like you said, it's been wonderful prosperity for the state. Oh, unbelievable.

But as we'll see in a later panel, that comes with growing pains. That's right. I was about to interrupt you and say that brings a whole other set of headaches and issues, whether it's road congestion, water infrastructure, broadband infrastructure, electric grid infrastructure, that we didn't talk about that so much until a few years ago. water infrastructure, broadband infrastructure, electric grid infrastructure, that, you know, we didn't talk about that so much until a few years ago. And now that is forefront, and especially with electricity of all demands and more people coming here, businesses setting up shop, we have to deal with that infrastructure. And obviously, there is a cost to that. So, you know, trying to make sure we keep the economic engine of Texas going, but also one that is affordable and housing affordability.

That's an issue that I've brought up to the legislature that, you know, Texas over history has typically been more affordable than other states. That's a bragging point that I had every year with our credit rating. But the last several years I've had to dial that back because I used to say, well, we're more affordable except for in Austin. We're more affordable except for in the Metroplex. And then after COVID, with valuations going up so significantly, then that become much more of an issue across the state. So it's a positive, but also there's other detriments we have to deal with. Was there any finding you had in that report on a potential solution for that? Yeah, more of it, it was trying to raise the profile to bring the issue up but i do think that that is one of the major economic um issues for texas in

the future one of the issues that that's kind of front and center is because it's permitting you got to be able to get permits to be able to build uh not just in suburban urban rural areas and a lot of that is permitting on a local level you know and and even if the permitting is easier the timeline to actually get it approved and that kills a project and so therefore that is a component but also the state has to look at what are we doing or not doing properly to get those permits issued so your Finance Committee hearing you were at yesterday was basically going over the facts of the budget and the financial. Very detailed.

Yes. And the state has, what was it, like $24 billion roughly treasury surplus. We'll get into the surplus and the ESF stuff. That just rolled off your mouth. Thank you. Like no issue. Billion. Hey, I've been doing this for what now, six years?

Billion. That is an unbelievable amount of money, right? Even for an economy our size. Well, what were some of your top takeaways in looking at the two chambers' first drafts of the budget? What stuck out to you? Yeah, I think one of the most important pieces is that they're continuing to try to invest in infrastructure instead of taxes. That's one thing that, you know, if people say, oh, Glenn sounds like a broken record, that's one of the things that I continue to talk about over and over. Because I firmly believe that any time any society through history, I don't care how far

back you go, when society does not pay attention to their infrastructure, that's when the economy continues to decline. And, you know, if you look at other countries right now, I mean, I'll pick on, you know, the country that my family moved from, last name from Germany. I mean, Germany kind of got sidetracked and didn't invest in their infrastructure as much. And now their economic model of engineering and building things, the cost of energy is significantly higher than it used to be. And so the model doesn't work right now. And so therefore, you know, I think it's easy for government to say, oh, we'll do that road project next year. We'll do that water infrastructure next year. And the next thing you know, it's 10, 20, 30 years and infrastructure is depleted. Instead, you were spending the money on other programs that you really didn't need to

be spending them on. But it was a feel goodgood program, and that's what took all your money. Seems to be this session, the big infrastructure item is water. And Senator Charles Perry will be here later, and we'll talk a lot about that. I think he'll talk about it. Just a guess. It might be his thing. But what do you think is required? How big of an issue is this? Is this a red alarm fire, or what's the state? I'll say it this way. My team knows that, in my opinion, whatever issue comes up, and there's usually several a day that will come up, rarely is there a crisis. You know, if you're living with the wildfires up in the panhandle earlier last year, if you're in California, now that is a crisis. That's a true crisis. If you were in the Carolinas after the hurricane and the massive flooding and destruction, that's a crisis. But

the issues that we deal with on a daily basis, they're workable. They're workable. You know, and if you look at it from, oh my goodness, I mean, how do you swallow the whole apple? You don't. You take a bite at a time. And I think that's where you kind of take a deep step, take a step back, take a deep breath and realize. But with that being said, we have done some major steps on water infrastructure in the state as a state level. But do I think we need to do more? Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think Perry is raising that issue up and trying to take that next step to make sure that we're looking at. And the thing that I look at it, you know, is for me at my point in life, I have my oldest daughter here in a couple of months will be 20.

My youngest daughter, my son, my twins will be 17. And a lot of what I look at is, OK, what do we want Texas to be? And are we going to have those economic opportunities in the next 20, 34 years? And so, therefore, the next step is looking a little further out. That's going to be a big topic. You're going to want to spend a lot of money. I think Senator Perry mentioned $5 billion. It's real money. Yeah.

Real money. Yeah. I mean, but, you know, part of the question becomes, if you don't do anything or stay what we're doing, which we're making progress, but are the projects going to be more costly? And the answer is yes, right? That's just inflation. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, thanks to, you know, Joe Biden and 40-year high inflation. Sorry, did I say that out loud? We'll see if that reduces under the Trump administration. So one of your, at least as it looks now, one of your tasks as comptroller will be to manage or set up the education savings account program.

I heard that too. And there's not a lot of daylight, not really any daylight right now between the two versions money-wise. Right, right. But how would this thing actually be set up in your mind? Yeah, so obviously it's something that we have spent a lot of time on. Going back to several sessions ago when my former colleague, Senator Taylor, was carrying kind of the original ESA bill in the state senate. I was in this role. We had worked with him in trying to get a glimpse in where we were going last session.

And the special sessions was almost like a dress rehearsal. You know, we were able to work through a lot of issues. We have Senator Creighton, Representative Buckley, the authors that will probably still continue to carry. We know Creighton obviously is because he's having the hearing today. So we had that consistency. We're being able to work through some things. And as I kind of mentioned to them, you know, I appreciate and understand when you're a member. I mean, I served in the House. I served in the Senate.

I carried some pretty significant legislation. And the amount of people that are coming at you and, well, I have an idea. I have an idea. I have an opinion. I have an opinion. And it's hard to get through. I mean, they're really hard to get through. That's just the interest groups, the peoples with the opinions.

That's not even with your colleagues in the House or the Senate or the other side of the chamber, in the governor's office, in leadership. And so, I mean, it is very complex. But the point that I make to them, as equally complex as it is to get the thing passed, now that I've been in my role, I can promise you it is equally complex to stand the program up. We have to go out for rules. We have to allow the public to have that input just all over again to some degree and manage that. People say, oh, well, in Arizona. Well, Arizona has, what, seven and a half million people. We have over six million kids in the education system, whether that's in public ed, private school, charter schools, home schools.

I mean, we almost have as many people being educated as they do in their whole state. So the point is a scale. You know, I was at an event with other treasurers, and one of the deputies for Indiana Treasurers said, oh, you know, we're happy to visit with you. And I said, yeah, absolutely, and we have. And then he kind of chugged me and said, well, our program will be a little bit smaller than y'all's I was like yeah I think um and so but but but still one thing I've learned with that scale you just have to phase in what that scalable portion is right it doesn't mean you can't do it it's just a different set of tools that you need to some degree. And so, you know, the main thing for us is being able to stand it up effectively, trying to make sure first and foremost that there's not fraud, there's not a waste of dollars.

You know, and so I think being that we've been able to go through this dress rehearsal at come times with leadership and the authors, it's given all of us a little bit better ability to understand where we're coming from and why. And so I feel confident with my team. The legislature has given me a lot of things over the years, whether I wanted them or I didn't want them. They've given me a lot of different things. They said, Glenn, go do this. Glenn, go do this. Glenn, go do this. And we've stood everyone up. We've done it each time. So I got real confidence in my team. We will do that here too. Is it just the scale that you find to be the biggest obstacle there? Or is there something else? You know, also, Texas is blessed. We don't just have one constitutional prohibition. We have

two constitutional prohibitions, just in case you didn't think we meant it the first time, that we're never going to have a state income tax, which is a good thing. But that also means when it comes to different buckets of people that qualify, if it's a certain income level or if there's a disability, well, being able to have that data and that information and make sure that you fit that bucket in that criteria, I don't have income data. So therefore, I have to look at another metric, right? That's not something that's just filed with the office in another state, which who has it and you can look at it. We don't have that. And so therefore, there are other challenges that other states, but that doesn't mean that we can't overcome them, right? It's just things to consider. Is that not something

you can get from the feds? Well, obviously, there's's um just privacy issues you know i have to i have to make sure that you give it to me or if you know there's a disability well obviously medical records are highly confidential and sensitive and so it has to come from you versus me going to get it somewhere else another thing that caught my eye in the budget, especially the Senate's draft budget, was the $6.5 billion for border security. We just had the panel on that topic. Lieutenant Governor Patrick had mentioned previously that because of the incoming Trump administration and the presumed and now actual increased presence at the border from the feds, that some of that money could be loosened up and gone elsewhere. It doesn't look like that, at least right now. Do you think that's feasible?

Well, I hope that under this administration, federally, we will have a much better border scenario than we did previously. My family has a place in Maverick County. Representative Morales, I think, was here in his home county. And I can just tell you, four years ago, oh, my gosh. I mean, we've never seen somebody come through our property. And four years ago, it was just unbelievable. My son and I, we were out there a few weeks ago.

We took my father-in-law, and we still went by and showed him Camp Biden and Camp Harris. That was the two locations we named with all the trash that was dumped in the backpacks and the shoes. I mean, it was, I mean, I posted it on social media. I mean, it was just unbelievable. I mean, it looked like a trash dump, you know, your house broken into. I mean, it was just, it was awful. I mean, my son and I used to night hunt. We stopped because I just, I'm not taking him out at nighttime. I mean, I son and I used to night hunt. We stopped because I just I'm not taking him out at nighttime. I mean, I can't see every third hunt. There's people walking through. I mean, it was just unbelievable. And so it has gotten better. And obviously, under this administration, there's a commitment to to make sure there is an orderly process at the border. And so, you know, I'm hoping that Texas can right-size that, you know, to the

new norm. It is substantially better for us down there as residents surrounding property owners. And so I'm hoping we can, but I understand, you know, at least leadership saying here's where we were. We have a commitment. We're going to stick with this commitment, but that doesn't mean over the course of this budget cycle over the next five months, maybe that can be right-sized as we see what the federal government is going to do under this administration. One of your responsibilities as comptroller is to certify the budget at the end of the day, at the end of the session. And that might be your last one, certifying as comptroller. Are you going to miss that at all, going through all this?

Well, it's kind of like anything in life. There are some things that you go, man, I just really love that, but boy, that sucked. Or, you know, the pain and the efforts, the work. Let's talk about the budget. You know, it was very interesting to be on this side versus the side with the legislature in certifying the budget. Because that very first time we were going through this, my team starts looking at the introduced version of the budgets on both sides. And as it works through, we are constantly working with legislative budget boards, constantly working with Senate Finance, House Appropriations. So there are no surprises. Bills that are moving through that may get funding, making sure those pieces, all the so-called riders, which are the fine details.

But then as we were going through in the last few weeks to certify that budget, one minute they'll come in and say, oh, they're a few hundred million above, so they're in the black. Oh, nope, we just figured this out, so now they're 200 million in the red. I mean, the number just kept doing this. Now, of course, we're talking about billions and billions of dollars. So if you look at it, the numbers were relatively small compared to the overall budget, but they matter, right? They matter if it certifies. And so it was very interesting to me, the minutia of the detail of a massive state budget and how complex it is to make sure it truly does certify and having information.

That's one reason that I have continued to pledge to the public and the legislature, as we see the economy changing something substantially, we're going to let you know. There are not going to be surprises. And so therefore, obviously, I don't have a crystal ball. I don't have a magic wand. I can't tell you what the eighth largest economy is going to do with the exact 100% certain starting in nine months and ending two years later. Nobody can. If they can, they are lying to you. And so therefore, as we see things changes but it's complex but it's fascinating i mean i enjoy my job i love the team that i got and you know obviously being engaged in this process i've continued to find it challenging and and something

that that i've been very blessed to do with the voters allowing me to do that you mentioned the 24 roughly billion dollar treasury surplus but there's also the rainy day funds how much money does the legislature have at its disposal to spend more than they need uh maybe i should i don't think they want to hear that let me rephrase let me rephrase way more than they need. That's the quote. They do. They do, really. I mean, realistically. But, you know, if you took out, I mean, what's fascinating,

and I think one of the senators made this point yesterday, and it has been really amazing watching last session, this session, and how we got to that record surplus of two years ago was a different mechanism than this session. Two totally different. And that's one of the points that I make, that two years ago, it was revenues into the state treasury had soared off the chart higher than anything we'd ever seen in the state's history because of people spending after COVID.

Secondly, 40-year high inflation. If you bought something a year ago for $100, now you bought it for $110, you wouldn't think, oh, six and a quarter doesn't add up. Oh, wow, did it add up. It really added up. And then lastly, right, you wouldn't think, oh, six and a quarter doesn't add up. Oh, wow, did it add up? It really added up. And then lastly, right, wrong, or indifferent, you had the federal government just literally pouring money into the national economy, which contributed to the 40-year high inflation. And so, you know, as I made the point to the governor, to leadership, I said, look, you know, we can say, look, we don't want to take that federal money.

I respect that. But also, our taxpayers are paying that federal money. And so the question is, do we want to spend it wisely on program, infrastructure-type projects here, or do we want to spend it on the east and the west coast? Our kids are going to be paying for it. They're going to spend it, as in the feds. So be strategic, right?

And so even though all of that last session, while the economy continued to grow, it wasn't at this level. It was positive. But now a lot of this is left over from last time. I mean, that's really what it is. And so the point is be wise, be conservative. That's the reason I say way too much. But, I mean, if you think about it, $24 billion cash carryover balance, some of those are what we call general dedicated accounts. They're for a specific purpose.

They can't be spent on something else. So that's a good $7.5 billion of that. So that reduces that number. $4.5 billion of it was designated for public education and education savings accounts last cycle that didn't pass. So, you know, you can take that 24 down, but still, that's a lot of money, Brad. And then 24 billion in the economic stabilization fund, that is unbelievable. When I got in this job 10 years ago, it had six and a half,

six and a half. And now it has, you know, four times that amount at 24. Now, obviously, the economy's bigger. And so therefore, when we have the next recession, that downturn is significant. So you kind of need a bigger cushion than you did before, but still, it is significant monies, significant amounts of dollars. I want to transition to a different topic, ESG. Yeah, never heard of it. Tell me what it's about. I don't want to send this interview down. That's a joke if any of y'all didn't know.

We've talked about it numerous times. SB13 is in law. What's the number of the firearms manufacturer? What is that, 19? Whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But those are the two responses by state legislature to the world of capital and policies that have been adopted therein. We saw a big development on this.

BlackRock came out and said they were leaving a climate initiative. Right. That's a big change. It's a big change. And you, and we've talked about this before, you've talked a lot about how public messaging matters in judging who's on the list. That's right. The very scary list.

What did that shift? How did that land with you? What did that mean? Yeah, you know, first and foremost, I mean, my approach to this, when the legislature said, hey, Glenn, we want you to go identify every publicly traded financial institution that is, quote, unquote, board cutting the oil and gas industry, which is a subpart of the E in ESG really is what it amounts to.

I said, okay, we'll go do that. But, of course, I couldn't go to the store and just buy a list and plug it in my computer, and there it is. I mean, we had to literally go invent the car. You know, who are they? How do you quantify it? How do you make sure that those are on, those that are off? The public understands what is the process.

What is the process we went through? And it's defendable. That is defendable. We can defend against it when we're going to be sued, because we will be sued. There is no doubt about it. And then how do you message why we're doing this? And I thought all of those components were extremely important. And as you and I have visited about this several times, what was also fascinating is I remember there was a time when I was talking to my staff and I said, oh my gosh, part of this is the big lie. And they were like, I'm sorry, what do you mean? I said, oh my gosh. I mean, now that we've tore down into it, we've gotten information back from some of these companies as our request for information from them. And the big lie was in part those companies

who were not on my list. But if you just looked at their public publications that they put out, you would think they're boycotting. I mean, I remember one of them came in my office and very high up in the company and said, this is the amount we're investing in oil and gas, and this is much we're investing in renewables, we're oil and gas, we shouldn't be on the list. And then I looked at their lobbyists and said We're, you know, oil and gas, da-da-da-da-da. We shouldn't be on the list. And then I looked at their lobbyists and said, wait, you sent me a publication not too long ago, da-da-da, right? And he goes, yeah, yeah. I said, I think I looked at that.

I said, oh, yeah, I did. I said, do you know how many times there was actually a pump jack in there? Do you know how many times there was anything in reference to the oil and gas industry in there? I can tell you, zero. Do you know how many pictures there were of wind turbines and solar panels? Not that I'm against renewable, but the point is the image you are providing is the absolute opposite of what you're telling me here. And that's why I told my staff, part of it was the big lie. Companies wanted to provide, and they go, well, but you know, if we don't do that because of this and this and this and other states, and I'm going, that's why we're having an intellectually more honest conversation.

That is why we're trying to provide some balance to this. And why don't you just tell the truth and let it fall the way it is. And that, that, the more we went into it, the more frustrated I got because of that. And then you had those that actually were boycotting. They were pandering to that side of the discussion, and it still just baffles me that if you want to drive an electric vehicle, that's your prerogative. But just know the seat that you sit on is made out of what? A petroleum product.

The steering wheel you touch, the door that you touch, the wires are coated in, the batteries, for goodness sake, sit in what? Some plastic in case they leak. And so you have over 2,000 components. You have protesters out there protesting the industry, and they're holding these. Do you know what this water is contained in? A petroleum product, right? And I mean, as I said, I was invited. I guess I'll never probably be invited ever again. I did a Green Day conversation like this. No, no, no, not the band. I do like the band. But, you know, the big Earth Day, the big Earth Day last year, and there was a one-on-one discussion, and in that point, I made the comment to everybody. I said, you know, just this morning, I watched some news, and there were a bunch of

protesters, and I said, oh my gosh, the protesters were out there holding a banner protesting the industry, and do you know what it's made of? And the audience goes, a petroleum product? I go, you are smart, and they all had hard hats on with their little emblem, and guess what that was made of? And people later on goes, okay, that was a good point. And so the point is, come on, let's have some intellectually honest and show the connectivity, right, to our daily lives. And so I'm proud of being able to move that conversation piece. And so then ultimately coming to your exact question, you know, whether it's BlackRock or other major financial institutions that are pulling back and actually making public statements that, no, we're not going to have a full transition off

the industry. That's not going to happen if we're going to meet the energy demands for economic opportunities for the U.S. and around the world. Those are big, Brad. Like, that's huge. Now, we're going through the process right now. BlackRock sent us all their information. We don't have an ultimate conclusion whether they come off the list or stay on. We haven't got to that point. We're working through that. My ultimate goal would be that I don't have anyone on my list. That's what I would like to have.

But that would truly be the ultimate goal the counter from those in the industry is that laws like sb 13 dissuade more investment into the states that it harms the state financially commercially how do you respond to that you know first and foremost um it is stunning to me that the irresponsibility of some that continue to publish, say, for example, a few studies that said, I mean, one of them was this law is going to cost this amount of money. And it was, I don't know, in like June or July after the legislation passed. And we hadn't even started standing up the program yet. And so it's based on all these assumptions of assumptions of assumptions of assumptions.

And so it's just a made up number, yet it still keeps getting cited over and over and over. And I told my staff the other day, it got cited about a month ago. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is so frustrating because it's just a bogus number. But boy, whoever published it, they keep getting their name out there. And so those things are frustrating to me, but you know, that's just part of it. So the way I respond is look, what the effort here is to have a balanced, again, I keep saying the phrase just because I want to drive it home, an intellectually honest conversation. And I want to show the connectivity of what the industry has to our daily lives. And so therefore, what I'm hoping is the person who says, oh, we have to get off of all

realizes that their shoes are made of petroleum product. You know, the glasses that they're wearing. I mean, all of these. And so I just want people's eyes to be open a little bit. And they go, huh, that's kind of a good point. Yes, it is. So I just think a lot of it is so overblown. Another task the legislature has given you is rural broadband expansion. Yeah. And I'm sure that's been quite a feat, right? Give us an update on where that program stands. But also, y'all started a $30 million roughly pilot program.

Yeah, that's right. For, I'll just use Starlink as shorthand, but they're not the only ones in the business. Where do things stand on that? So just kind of real quick, it has been a monumental effort to stand up a brand new division within the agency that is within the agency, but obviously doesn't fit exactly within my core constitutional responsibilities of running the state treasury. You like that ding. I'm waiting for people to come service something with that going off the bell. I'm like, ooh, what do I get to order now?

Whether it's running the treasury, collecting taxes, revenue estimating, you know, but with that being said, also trying to deal with multiple federal agencies because there were two buckets of money that you're dealing with different federal agencies and then you had a federal agency that was not quite mirroring up in the last administration with the legislation that passed and they're trying to push you to do certain things you're like that's sure not in the legislation there that they passed so a lot of those have been hurdles and slow. We were the last state out of 50 that actually got approved last year for what was called the BEAD program. I mean, the absolute last and the excuse was, well, y'all are a big state and you have more people that are unserved

than anybody else. Well, wouldn't you think that would make us move to the top of the list, not the bottom of the list? So, you know, a lot of these things are outside our control and you're trying to be good partners with your partners on the federal level. You have some state funding that the state, and so therefore it's just, it's, it's been insurmountable. But we have put out several rounds of funding in rural areas. We have done another round here just recently. We did the pilot that you just mentioned because it had been fiber fiber fiber was the only option and now there's a standard set by and that was a standard set both by the feds as well as the state legislature and so now there's

a look at okay but also at some point you have to go to a lower cost opportunity you know there was an article my staff sent me today that complimented us, which was nice to actually have something that's a compliment in the press versus that's not. And so it was comparing us to other states that even for the fiber, our cost effectiveness was much more cost effective than some of the other programs out there for fiber. But we're trying to, we're putting the satellite out there. We're looking for requests for proposals from companies. There's multiple companies that provide a satellite option. So this is just kind of a pilot.

Let's get the information back from them, and then we'll pick who the winner is and try to stand that up. But we're moving along, and we're connecting people up, which is important. Let's talk the federal environment a bit. I would like your take on the election that just happened. Obviously, a it would not be, oh my goodness, this is just a razor thin. So electoral college, I mean, there were seven swing states, and they were all one. I mean, it was not a mix. And so therefore, you know, you said, oh, well, whatever the exact percentage of the population is, which is always going to be pretty close,

just the way the country is set up right now, population-wise. But electorally, it wasn't close. And so therefore, you know, and you see with the U.S. House, while it's a very slim majority, it is a majority. The U.S. Senate is a majority. And so therefore, those elections were very clear. And so therefore, I think that enables this Congress and this administration to start moving in a different direction. You know, I think the election was about, was going to be about, and ultimately, in my opinion, was about that people care about the affordability of them being able to provide for their families and for future generations. It's the economy, stupid.

It's the economy, the inflation. And I think it's also that people are kind of sick and tired of this kind of woke-ism just being shoved on them. You know, in other words, I try really hard with my three kids. Pray for me. I have teenagers. I've alluded to that a couple times in here. They are all three kids. Pray for me. I have teenagers. I've alluded to that a couple times in here. They are all driving, so pray for me.

Car insurance. But, you know, the fact is I try really hard for them to think on their own. And one of the points that, you know, we make, and I'll pick one of my kids. I mean, swimmer and pretty good swimmer in high school but you know trying to have one of the guys swim with her I mean in what world does that make sense if you want to do it just create another division have a third division that's great I don't have a problem with people competing but don't make my daughter get in the pool with a kid that's, you know, a hundred pounds bigger, more muscular. And I mean, it just, it, it's just not fair. Now she beat a lot of the boys, but she's never going to be on the podium if she had to do in that scenario. And, and,

you know, my point is in telling them, if you give somebody their own separate group, try to be open-minded. I think that's important. But I just think people are just tired of it being shoved down their throats. I really do. I think that's another component of this. One of the big policy changes that we're likely to see under President Trump are increased tariffs. Right.

Economically, that will have some impact on Texas. Trump administration would argue it would be good for the entire country. Others will say it'll hurt the state and the entire country. How do you view that as impacting Texas and its bottom line? Yeah. First, I'll say whenever a new administration comes in that politically has a different opinion than the prior administration, whether it was currently with Trump, whether it was Biden coming after Trump, we in our economic analysis is not going to take in, we think they may do A, B, C, and D and what that may occur. Until it becomes an executive order that may not be caught up in litigation and have an

injunction on it or Congress passes something. I mean, even if something passes, there's still all this implementation. And so there's a window. There's a runway. It's not immediate. It's not like you walked in this room and you flipped on a light switch. There is a slow process there. They're still hiring staff.

They will be for months. And so I don't know if y'all have ever noticed. Government is real slow. half like they will be for months. Yes and so I don't know if y'all have ever noticed government is real slow. Now in part it's designed that way not to be reactionary because people like consistency. Now we won't change too but you know okay. So the point is even if there were tariffs put into place it's not going to change the dynamic overnight. It's going to take a little bit of time. Obviously, Texas is over 20% of all the exports out of the entire country comes out of this state. To put in perspective, we're roughly 10% of the nation's economy. So we are

very intertwined. So yes, potentially, but with that being said, exactly what is it? And it's going to take time. So it's not something that I lose sleep over. I worry more about our infrastructure, our affordability, those kind of things that I think we do have some control in and some things that we should focus on rather than what if A, B, C, D, E, right? Now I'm going to ask you the question that I ask you every time we talk. I was looking through finance reports, as I want to do, and I noticed you have $10 million burning a hole in your pocket. What's next? It is not burning a hole in my pocket.

I will say that. Somebody had asked me the other day or asked Chris Bryan, who's in the back communications director in the agency and does political stuff for me too, said, oh, well, you know, is Glenn Hager running for reelection or doing this or doing that? And I said, well, just remind them, number one, I have 10.3 million reasons on why I can win reelection. And he was like, oh, okay, I'll say that. Now, with that being said, I don't know. You know, I had ran for this job thinking this would be my last

term, and I said it that way. I did not run for the House of Representatives thinking I would serve in the state senate. Bless you. And then my senator didn't run for re-election, a variety of reasons I decided to. And then after 12 years of serving in the legislature, I was like, okay, these people are crazy as hell, and I need to get out of here. Not really. I'm just kind of, well, it kind of depends on the person. There are some. But, you know, I wanted a new challenge. I have learned at my age in life that after doing something about, you know, a good eight, ten years, it's time for a new challenge. I love the people I work with.

I love the team that I got. I have a lot of confidence in them, a lot of confidence. That's why, you know, I'm not scared of the ESA accounts. I'm not scared of these things. I got real confidence in my team. Could I see myself coming back? Yes. But I also think that we all have a shelf life in whatever we do. And I think we need to recognize it's time to do something different and not just say, oh'm gonna stay here forever because I don't know if you've noticed that some electeds like to stay forever and just because you have 10.3 million reasons doesn't mean that's what you should be doing

maybe you should be doing something else and not wait on the voters to tell you get the hell out of office idiot it's time for somebody else and so you know we we reevaluate that my wife and I are at the point where did I tell you, get the hell out of office, idiot. It's time for somebody else. And so, you know, we reevaluate that. My wife and I are at the point where, did I tell you I had three teenagers? The twins are sophomores in high school. They'll be out of school in a couple years. You know, now it's time to kind of think about from a different angle for us. So I don't know, but I guess let me sum up in this way. Whatever it is, I still want to be engaged in some way and serve the state of Texas. I mean, my family's been here since the mid-1840s. Texas has been good to us, and I love this state.

And whatever I do, I want to stay engaged and continue to hopefully make Texas of the next 10, 15, 20 years a place that my kids will still want to be in this state. So I don't know what that is, but it's somewhere in that space. I just don't know what it is. Last one for you. If this is indeed your final term as comptroller, what have you learned in this role, jack-of-all-trades role? What's the biggest takeaway? That's a whole other conversation.

You know, part of it is, one, leadership matters. Leadership really matters. What you say matters. With an agency that has 27 divisions, agencies within an agency, multiple 3,000 employees, what I've learned in part is that ship, what I say does matter over the long term. What my team says and does matters over the long term. The little things actually get recognized and matter. When I walk to my office, when I'm going up the steps in there, I see trash on the sidewalk, guess what? I pick it up. I don't say, oh, that's Susie's job or Joe's job. I mean, I'm not too good to pick up trash.

And purposely, I kind of do it and dangle it so people can see, your ass should have picked up the trash, okay? Like, hello? Glenn can do it. You can do it. Actions matter. You know, and it's also actions not when staff is sitting out there, but when somebody's not. Actions matter when you know, and it's also actions not when staff is sitting out there, but when somebody's not.

Actions matter when they're not looking. And so, therefore, my point in saying all this, what I've realized is that while my agency is like a massive cargo ship out in the ocean, we can't move it quickly. It is huge. It moves slowly because it's a massive organization. But leadership matters. What we say matter. What we do matters, both when people watch, when they don't watch. Because you know what? Over the course of several years, if you change that ship a few degrees,

when you go across the Atlantic, you're going to change the port of entry of where you're going. It matters. That I have realized, and that's one of the kind of the most rewarding things to see. And hopefully people would perceive that, you know, our agency is one of the better run agencies, not just in the state, in the nation. I care about what I do. I love this state. My team does. And that cohesiveness of the team. And never be afraid of being criticized or never be afraid of the blunt, honest truth.

You know, and that's one thing that I've always encouraged my team. You know, if we're doing something stupid, we need to have that cold dose of reality. Yes, people around you is not a good thing at all. So those are a few summations of it. Comptroller Glenn Hager, one of my favorite interviews in the entire state. Thank you for joining. Good to be with you. Thank you.

Thank y for joining. Good to be with you. Thank you. Thank you all.