The Texan Podcast - A Panel on Public Education and School Choice — The Texan's 89th Session Kickoff

Episode Date: January 31, 2025

Reps. Brad Buckley (R-Killeen), Drew Darby (R-San Angelo), and Briscoe Cain (R-Deer Park) joined reporter Cameron Abrams for a lively discussion on public education and school choice and how education issues might be addressed during the 89th Legislative Session.Listen to more interviews from our 89th Session Kickoff wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you hear, subscribe and leave us a review.

Hello everyone. Thanks for coming back. Well, we're going to be talking about public education, school choice, probably one of the biggest issues that people are paying attention to going into this next session i want to introduce our legislators that are with us today we have representative brad buckley he was the key architect of the school choice and education legislation last session chairmanship last session of the house public education committee likely the same this time around and this is something we'll want to get into as well representative drew darby is here with us true veteran of the texas legislature and maybe one of the more skeptical of school choice legislation but i think your perspective is going to be very

valuable moving forward especially in this conversation here. And we have Representative Briscoe Cain. He's already filed school choice legislation in the House, and he's a lawyer, so that is going to be a very valuable perspective here today. But I want to start with some background going back to last session. We saw school choice legislation come to the floor for the first time in the House. It eventually died because of the Rainey Amendment, which stripped out education savings accounts. Governor Greg Abbott has continued to pound the drum for school choice, making it a top issue he wants to see in this state. So let's start with you, Representative Buckley. THIS STATE. LET'S START WITH YOU, REPRESENTATIVE BUCKLEY. TAKE US BACK TO THAT 88 SESSION AND TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT DID YOU FEEL PRESSURE TO CRAFT JUST

THE PERFECT PIECE OF LEGISLATION TO GET SCHOOL CHOICE BOTH ON THE FLOOR AND POSSIBLY ACROSS THE FINISH LINE AND WHAT DID YOU SORT OF FEEL WHEN IT FAILED TO PASS THAT DAY? THAT'S A TOUGH QUESTION. NOW, FIRST OF ALL, IT WAS AN that day? That's a tough question. Now first of all it was an honor to lead the committee last session and to work on important issues for Texas school children and their families and you know when you look back on the on the session and specifically on the bill you know it really was a lot of conversations between, you know, everybody from families to schools, to advocates for school choice, to folks that aren't for school choice,

but most importantly in the Texas House is a conversation between the members because we are a deliberative body of different opinions. And so as we went through and we began, you know, we gaveled in in January of 23, I mean, we weren't basically didn't, quote, have school choice on the floor until November. And those discussions were with all members. And, you know, some that were never, ever, ever to, yeah, maybe if it's this to, um, nope, we need something bigger. Uh, the governor had his, um, uh, opinion on what we, you know, what he thought it should look like. We worked very hard. You know, I, I approach things

very simple. I try to think about the concerns that people have about legislation, regardless of what the issue is. Study those concerns. And if they are concerns and if it's valid to try to create the proper guardrail or what have you in the bill to make sure something untoward doesn't happen. And so that's really what I tried to build. We also tried to combine it with historic funding for public education, other reforms on our assessments and on the accountability system, and ultimately we were unsuccessful, but, you know, that's part of the process. You know, I'm not going to tell you every minute of it was a whole lot of fun, but I can tell you that I'm a better legislator for it,

and maybe I'm a glass half full guy. I think I've learned a lot, and I've really learned more about the issue, and I think that that's been good for me, and it'll be good for policy moving forward. Yeah, and you mentioned there that architecting this school choice legislation takes talking back and forth with the other legislators in the House there. But we constantly hear from the upper chamber that, oh, they passed school choice multiple times through the upper chamber. but talk to me a little bit about the different dynamics when it comes to school choice between how the Senate operates in between the house so this is actually for the whole panel let's start with you representative King yeah this is a question on how the house is operating differently yes I think we already know the house is operating differently than the Senate.

You begin by, and how many times has the Senate passed school choice? Do we know? I'm just curious. I believe it was four different iterations. Okay. Yeah. So the Senate's not a problem. The House has some procedural and maybe some personality things that we've gotta work through.

Of course, we recognize that the school choice bill failed to leave the House last session. Of course, there are 21 Republicans that voted for that Rainey Amendment. Nine of them lost in the primary, five decided to retire instead of facing the people, because the people want universal school choice. And so I think that message has been pretty clear. And so, yeah, they better get their act together or we'll be having more special sessions and I think

more members will be losing their seats. Well, Representative Darby, I want to bring you into this conversation because you've been more skeptical on the issue of school choice, voting for removing education savings accounts last session. Can you sort of explain that position? Are you still there? Have you moved at all on that position when it comes to education savings accounts, school choice for this session?

Well, thank you. It's good to be here. that position when it comes to education savings account school choice for this session well thank you thank you it's good to be here i feel like i'm the skunk in the garden party here i've kind of been that way all my life i'm i'm kind of a contrarian i believe in representing my district my district is largely composed of rural school districts. I have 10 counties going all the way from Coleman in the east to Big Lake, Reagan County, Glasgow County, Permian Basin, agribusiness. And so I've prided myself on voting my district. And while you continue to use, and my colleagues continue to use, the word choice, this has never been about choice. We have choice.

They continue to use that word that polls so highly with the public as the right of a parent to decide where their children are going to go to school. That's not the issue in Texas. We have that choice. In San Angelo you can go to a quality public school. You can go to a quality public charter school. We have several private and parochial schools. We have one of the largest home school communities in the state proportionally. So we have choice. But folks, this is not about choice. Those that want this objective have done a masterful job of couching the discussion in terms of the word choice.

This is about public dollars going to private or parochial schools without the same accountability standards, without the same open admission policies, without the same obstacles and hurdles that public schools face, and they want public dollars without those same constraints. That's what this debate is about. So when my colleagues tell me or perhaps statewide leadership tells me that it polls high in my district, they're not polling the question. I'm surprised it's less than 100% of people are polled as to whether

or not they want school choice. It ought to be 100%. Who would disagree with having a parent so they would get the right to choose where their kids go to school? But when I poll people and say, do you want your public dollars going to a private or parochial school without the same accountability, without the same transparency, it is nowhere near what the statistical mean is. I went through a heavily contested election. This issue that seems to be so paramount in everybody's mind, it was a losing issue. And they went away from that issue because it polls terrible in my district.

What it became and what Briscoe was referring to, we lost 15 good rural, mostly rural Republicans that made the transgression of voting their district. They voted their district, and they had people came after them, not for voting their district, but for not supporting property tax relief or immigration or protecting our border. Those Republicans voted right down the line with every other Republican in the Texas House to support those initiatives. But educational savings accounts and vouchers was not popular. It's not popular in rural Texas. So I don't want to listen to this garbage about how it polls back home.

I went through a heavily contested election. It came out. That's the only poll that matters to me. That's the only poll that matters to me. So am I skeptical? I've always been a skeptic about this. This is the, and we can talk about it more today, but this is not a conservative principle or ideal. And so I don't, we're going to have a, for you to think or anybody to think in this room or anybody in that building think that this discussion is over, and we're going to, excuse the phrase phrase piss on the fire and call in the dogs and say this party is over just doesn't know how to read the political tea leaves in the capitol

well thank you for that response and to follow up with representative buckley like you've heard representative darby and his concerns and what many in rural districts express as concern when it comes to school choice so when you're putting together a piece of legislation that happens to have school choice in it how do you balance that why don't you just say educational savings again YOU SAY EDUCATIONAL SAVINGS ACCOUNT? ACCOUNT? ACCOUNT? WHY DON'T YOU JUST SAY WHY DON'T YOU JUST SAY WHY DON'T YOU JUST SAY EDUCATIONAL SAVINGS ACCOUNT? EDUCATIONAL SAVINGS ACCOUNT? EDUCATIONAL SAVINGS ACCOUNT? IT'S NOT YOURS. IT'S NOT YOURS.

IT'S NOT YOURS. WHY DON'T YOU JUST SAY IT? WHY DON'T YOU JUST SAY IT? WHY DON'T YOU JUST SAY IT? WELL, THE PRIMARY METHOD WELL, THE PRIMARY METHOD WELL, THE PRIMARY METHOD THAT TEXAS HAS USED TO, THEY THAT TEXAS HAS USED TO, THEY THAT TEXAS HAS USED TO, THEY PRIMARILY USED EDUCATION PRIMARILY USED EDUCATION

PRIMARILY USED EDUCATION SAVINGS ACCOUNTS IN THE PROPOSED SAVINGS ACCOUNTS IN THE PROPOSED SAVINGS ACCOUNTS IN THE PROPOSED LEGISLATION. LEGISLATION. LEGISLATION. THAT IS CORRECT. THAT IS CORRECT. THAT IS CORRECT. AND SO WHEN HEARING AND SO WHEN HEARING AND SO WHEN HEARING REPRESENTATIVE DARBY'S CONCERNS legislation. That is correct. And so when hearing Representative Darby's concerns on education savings accounts, how do you balance that when you're trying to put together a piece of legislation

that you think can actually pass? What are you thinking about? I'm thinking about that 50% of our third graders don't read on grade level. I'm thinking about 50% of our eighth graders don't do mathematics on grade level. That we have litigation after litigation, a million dollars spent on special education cases in Texas public schools because kids aren't receiving the services they need. My journey to school choice began in Killeen, Texas at Oak Creek Academy, where a young family, an E3 in the Army, and his wife who worked fast food counter had two children with autism. And they tried their dangdest to get the services they need through public school. I'm a former school board member, my wife's assistant superintendent of schools. But our journey began when this family, where grandma had to move down from

up north so that mom could take on a second job so their two sons could attend a private school where they could receive the services where they could thrive. The tuition is $9,400 a year. It might as well be a million dollars to a family like that. I have always viewed this issue as providing every tool in the toolbox for a mom or dad. Not an either-or thing. The bills we've had in the past have reduced the number of state assessments. As a matter of fact, HB1 sunsetted the accountability system. It would have forced the legislature to look at the A through F system and evaluate it. Was it providing us and was it providing parents the type of information they need to make the best choice decision on what public school their kids attend? And we had a lot of choice. I would drive my kids from one public school to another because of the fine arts

program at one or the STEM program at one or what we felt was best for our kids. The reality is not every parent can do that. And when we couple this as we did with historic funding for public education, with significant reforms, from dealing with things for public schools, from property value studies that impact their bottom line, to insurance premiums that are going through the roof down on the coast, to really look, like I said before, of looking at the issues that are impacting our schools, the problems that folks had with it, and trying to solve them. We required testing. There's financial accountability.

We wanted to make sure that kids are learning. It's about that environment. We are in a society today where things have never been more customized, where we've never had more choice to build things the way we want to build them. And I just am a firm believer that we can do both. And in rural Texas, and in the rural districts that I represent, folks are moving there to send their kids there.

And this will not stop that. Gosh gosh it you know it sounds it's the wrong phrase to say especially at tpf but if you like your school you can keep it um cut that out no i'm just kidding but you know i mean and that's the case and so um though i respect the the disagreement on this issue uh you know i felt felt like my role as chairman of the committee and looking down at the success or lack of that we were having and the outcomes for kids, it was time to move a different direction. And that's what we did with HB1 in the previous session, and that's what we'll do again this session. WE'LL DO AGAIN THIS SESSION. SO WE HEARD DURING THE SPEAKER

PANEL WITH SPEAKER BURROWS, HE SAID THE WINDS ARE CHANGING. HE SAID EDUCATION SAVINGS ACCOUNTS WILL PASS. BUT HE ALSO MENTIONED THAT EDUCATION FUNDING IS NEEDED, PUBLIC EDUCATION FUNDING. SO CAN WE JUST GO DOWN THE LINE

AND JUST SAY YES OR NO? IS PUBLIC EDUCATION FUNDING NEEDED? education funding is needed public education funding so can we just go down the line and just say yes or no is public education sufficiently funded in Texas let's start with you it's funny because we keep giving it more money and it doesn't get better in this situation I say mo money mo problems I am very happily pleased that the school choice bill is not coupled with the funding bill um this time around which i think is really important it's important to people like mr darby who would like to maybe vote against it and not vote against school funding

and i might like to vote for something and another reason so so yeah uh are they adequately funded um they got too much money and without substantial reforms it's a problem it's the same thing that's that's causing us trouble in passing universal school choice which is members are either listening to the taxpayer-funded lobbyists the government school bureaucrats or the teachers unions are not the parents who want it right they're more concerned with funding measurements and whatever, how would they do the funding, than they are with increasing and improving

educational opportunities for children. It's really simple. And so, do I think it's actually funded? Probably, it's not even my concern, because every time they tell us how much more they need, they never tell us how much we'll fix it. All they want is more money. Instead, we should be more focused on giving children the access

to better educational opportunities. That's it. Thank you. Representative Darby, is public education sufficiently funded in Texas? Briscoe may not be old enough to remember this, but in 2011, we came down to Austin. Wow. I just did the math, Drew. They told us we, instead of having a $24 billion surplus, we had a $10 billion deficit. Now, if that doesn't make you sit up straight in your seat and pay attention,

nothing will. Well, how do we do as a state? Can we just write more checks, issue more debt? Or do we have to balance our budget? Do we have constitutional constraints that say we cannot spend more than we bring in? Well, how do you do that in a state strapped for cash? We didn't enjoy this oil and gas revolution. We're 10 billion short. Well, what do we do? We cut 5 billion out of schools. In my opinion, we've never restored

that. We've never restored that. And so to say that they're properly funded, I think it smacks of irrationality, in my opinion. Now, you can argue about whether or not they're using the money properly, but you cannot argue that they've got too much money. There's not a school district in West Texas that has not issued a deficit budget. Foolish them, they relied upon the legislature saying we have surpluses and we're going to fund schools. We've not done so in three sessions.

So to sit anywhere and say we have funded schools fully in this state is just somebody that has no sense of reality in their assessment. And so I agree with my colleague. I'm glad to see the bills different. I'd love to have a heads up vote on educational savings accounts and not have to worry about pulling down a bill that this man worked hard. There were a lot of great things in that bill.

I would have loved to have supported and had the opportunity to vote on 90% of that bill. I objected to the savings accounts. to vote on 90% of that bill. I objected to the savings accounts. We pulled that out. We've not really talked since then about why we couldn't ultimately do it, but we didn't get a chance to vote on it. The House would have passed that overwhelmingly,

but we didn't get a chance to vote it because it was being held ransom for this worship at the idol of the almighty savings account. So I hope and pray we have that opportunity. If this idea of educational savings accounts is so popular, let's vote it. Let's pull it out on the floor and vote it But let's not tie it to the much-needed Resources that we need to give to our public schools

Well same same question to you representative Buckley Public education is it sufficiently funded and you've heard some of the concerns that representative Darby just spoke about can you address the education issue overall in Texas with two separate bills one being public education funding one being a education savings account school choice bill absolutely I mean there's no problem having two bills. Let each stand on their own merit. I think school choice education savings accounts will pass. I think we'll pass the school funding bill. I know one thing.

It's 22% more to operate my veterinary clinic today than it was in 2019. If you think about our schools schools you know we we talk about schools earn you know schools or don't spend their money wisely i'm sure there are districts that do that but i'll tell you what they do in bartlett texas in my district they spend hell the superintendent drives a bus in rogers you know they raise money so their kids can travel through the Athletic Booster Club. You know, you go to other districts in there, in Salado ISD, where the Education Foundation raised $400,000 to make sure that teachers had grants so they could bring innovative strategies into their classroom. I mean, I don't know how we can say when everything else has gone up that our schools

don't need more funding. You know, again, you know, I think a lot of what we do, here's what happens in the legislature and what I've learned, I'll be, I'm in my fourth term, is that we do a lot of things legislatively, I I believe that have created a very intense level of kind of middle management in our schools and that's because the assessments that are so high stakes that we're you know we're sort of chasing that with folks we didn't have used to have to employ and so there's ways to remedy that more you know more funding to sort of speaks to the you know to the

immediate need but we can reform the the the assessment system we can reform the curriculum where the curriculum is more tied to the standards which in turn yields better results on what our State Board of Education said the standards are that our kids should know. You know, we sort of leave that part out sometimes. And so you're right. You can't write a big enough check that all of a sudden we'll get every third grader reading on grade level and every eighth grader hitting down the park and every high school senior is a National Merit Scholar. We're not going to do that but but i just know from district to

district that i go around in my in where i live that you know they're not burning through cash on on on things that are that are not important but they're doing a lot of things that the state has mandated mandated that they do our school safety funding last session was woefully inadequate, you know, and we know in our communities or anything else that we do, if you don't have safety, you can't do the rest of it. You've got to be safe. We've got to make sure. God, I wish to the Lord that we didn't have to come up with a program to secure our schools the way we do. We didn't have to do it. Hell, I had a shotgun hanging in my pickup truck when I drove to school every day it's a different world I don't like it but it is what it is we

got to make sure that we accomplish that and they need the resources to do it and I want you to look at your districts and how innovative they've been responding to these challenges you know what they do when they're faced with deficits they just figure it out like they always have. And so I say this in the term of this is not an either-or thing for me. I believe wholeheartedly that parents need the right, when it's not the best option for their kid, to take an education savings account and they be the driver of where they go. But I also believe that in the meantime, there are significant reforms and financial or in funding streams that our public schools need to do to do the job we ask them to do.

Regardless of education savings accounts, I would say that 95% of the kids in Texas for as long as I'm alive will be educated in a Texas public school. And I just believe that, you know, we have to provide excellent choices for every Texas parent. And that's what I intend to do, and we'll continue to advocate for that throughout the 89th session. Well, for you, Representative Kane, what do you see as, for someone who is on the pro school choice side, on the education savings account side, what do you see as those accounts offering parents as opposed to the system that we have right now in terms of the educational outcomes that I think everyone is hoping to achieve

improving math, reading, and science scores? Well, we've seen it seen in other states right and there's there's there's data from Texas in over 30 other states that school choice does improve educational outcomes and we can look to places like Florida who saw itself being a low ranking educational outcome state that now has universal school choice and it's ranked number one so I think the proof is there in that pudding then we also know the number one determining outcome and a child's education is parental involvement and we've seen multiple other scenarios this is the way to get it because when you

can only shop at one place there's no reason to shop around and find out why that school is gonna do better for your little Johnny than another school so that's real choice because the false choice to say that you could get up and around and find out why that school is going to do better for your little Johnny than another school. So that's a real choice. Because it's a false choice to say that you could get up and move if you're not of those means. It's a false choice to tell that single mom who doesn't have the upper-middle ability to get the right educational service for their child that they've got choice, they just need

to get a better job or get up and move. So I say no to that. The answer to it all is creating a marketplace competition. That's where accountability comes from. What's more accountable than the consumer? Why are businesses so afraid of us? What's more accountable than the parent who really knows their child than some bureaucrat at the TEA that may not know that answer?

So ultimately, the entire thing really may not know that answer so ultimately the entire thing really just comes down to it that the kids deserve it the parents want it our future depends on it and the Texas legislature must deliver it well let's talk a little bit about specifically education savings accounts and some of the accountability measures that might be put in place. Representative Buckley, what do you envision for how those accountability measures, whether it be outcome, educational outcome related, or on the money side, what do you envision a bill looking like that has that sort of accountability for education savings accounts? Well, you need to have, I believe you need to have accredited schools

that, you know, a private school, if they're going to accept a kid with an ESA, they need to be accredited. They need to have a track record of doing what we're saying. If this is about educational outcomes, and it is to me, we need to have accredited schools. And there's a great process in place. It's rigorous and it's legit the way that we accredit schools in Texas. I think that we need to know that kids are learning. You know, I think it's also important to note, and this is one of the things when we talk about ESAs or school choice

or in this whole discussion, is you'll never make a public school private and you'll never make a private school public. They just, that won't happen. But if taxpayer dollars are flowing into parents to make that choice then those of us who are given the awesome responsibility of making sure that taxpayer dollars are spent in a wise manner need to know that kids are learning and so with that I think that if a child in a private environment is accepted in ESA,

they should take a norm reference test. I don't think it makes any sense to take the STAR. It's not aligned with what they're doing. But we need to know that kids are learning so that parents know and that we know that the dollars that we have for this program are getting results. I believe it's like anything else. I think that there are kids given a different environment that the switch will flip, and they will absolutely thrive in that environment. And I think as policymakers, we need to know that. Most states do that. Some states have a, Indiana has a very rigorous system all tied to the state system.

Louisiana tried to do it, make everybody take the state test, and it was a big flop. You can't do that. But we can have data. You know, in the budget, there's a billion dollars, a billion dollars. And I just want to make sure kids are learning. On the financial piece, we want to make sure that there's a that there are programs and in place through the in our bill the the Comptroller will be administering this program to make certain that those dollars are not used

fraudulently. Another responsibility of someone that has raised their hand last Tuesday is to make certain those tax dollars are spent appropriately, that they're going for real educational services. And those services are what will drive the outcome. You know, you hear about, you know, the mom that went to Walmart and bought the big screen TV and all that. You can't have that. You know, we can't have that. And so we've got to build that in place. And, you know, that's what I've always advocated for. And very guys again this is not an either-or you know we can walk and chew gum and and you know educating kids just having three kids of my own educating kids is just so complicated and it's more complicated

today and that sounds like I'm the old guy in the room but it just feels like it is the pressures that kids are under. And that's why this whole choice movement makes so much sense to me is to say things aren't working out. Let that kid thrive in this environment and create that pathway for them through an accountable, transparent ESA. Well, Representative Darby, there are other Republicans who are skeptical about education savings accounts, and there's lots of eyes on the House to pass this type of legislation.

So how does a representative like yourself and others sort of navigate the educational issue in Texas with the governor really beating the drum on this issue what you mean let's say how do we stay out of the way of getting run over that's you know I love this guy I really do he is smart he had a bill we worked hard I mean I will tell you we worked hard there were there were many iterations of your bill we had 25,000 student cohorts, then another 25,000, another 25,000, and we implemented some accountability changes. And it became something that some of us might could have swallowed, okay?

But it became clear at the end that unless we could label it the largest universal school savings account program in the country then it wasn't going to be passed or accepted so that's when that's we went into the final trench trenches on the issue I would anticipate we're going to continue to talk. But when the chairman talks about a billion dollars, that's like what my wife tells me, oh honey, don't worry. This dress is just this much. That's not the case, folks.

This building is built on sound fiscally conservative principles. The people who started this believe in fiscal responsibility. For the life of me, I do not get this discussion. There's only 17% of our budget that's discretionary. The rest is governed by formula. So when we're going to meet over the next months on the budget, only 17% of the budget is what we're going to argue about. The rest is driven by formula. Out of that 17%, what do we pay? Do we think that DPS is a viable, functioning governmental entity? Yes. That's about $2 billion of biennium.

Do we think that prisons are worthwhile? There could be an argument to get rid of all the prisons, but do we think prisons serve a purpose? Yes. That costs us $4 billion. Do we believe that we need to protect our border? $4 billion out of that discretionary money. Do we believe in property tax cuts? Compression? $18 billion? So when you start talking about creating another entitlement, don't placate this issue by saying it's anything but an entitlement.

Because when we create it, it will always be there. It will never be cut back. So when we create another entitlement, only a billion. The Comptroller issued a fiscal note today. In 28 and 29, it's $3 billion a year. $6 billion over the biennium for this billion-dollar program. Now, is anybody in this room going to listen to an argument that when the budget gets tight and we don't have enough money, that we're going to cut this program proportionally? It ain't going to happen, folks.

We're going to cut. We're not going to give as much property tax relief. We're not going to, we're going to close some prisons. We're going to cut back DPS. We're going to cut back on all the other state programs, and we're going to fully fund this entitlement because it's for the children. I cannot believe we're having this discussion as a state that we think that $3 billion a year to give to folks that are not being currently funded for education at the state expense,

it's the most anti-conservative policy I've ever imagined. And why are we doing it? For the concept of choice. Well, Representative Kane, do you have any insight or response to some of these fiscal concerns that Representative Darby brings up? There's $100 million for film subsidies

that I would like your co-authorship with me so that when the budget comes up, we'll send $100 million to public education. We'll take it from films, give it to PubEd. You in? The thing about this discussion of how much money this is costing is the opponents of school choice, the taxpayer-front lobbyists,

the teachers' unions, the bureaucrats, all those who eat heftily at the trough of government, the money which was taken from you with the threat of violence. By the way, if you don't pay your taxes, someone eventually comes and arrests you. Those people, those general opponents, have never seen a spending bill they didn't like. They're going to attack and say this is it costly This is the only option we have if we were gonna do our mandate the legislators mandate to create an efficient system of public free schools

Which understand that word you've got to understand what was before it which was under the 1869 Constitution a very inefficient In fact, they called it a luxurious and elaborate system. It almost bankrupted the state just like it's doing now You must understand that competition is the way to force it to be more efficient and after all shouldn't they continue to be more efficient that parents and people at home are having to be more efficient themselves tighten their belt and make cuts and do with it that the superintendent may have to continue to drive a bus because it just happens to work that way just like you at home are having to maybe have a second job. But it works, and it's fine. And so this is the only option.

This is happening, and it's going to be a wonderful primary if it doesn't. Well, thank you. And we only have a few minutes left, and I want to go down the panel here. Let's start with representative buckley and we'll work our way back what does a successful 89th legislature look like to you i would say we we pass a universal esaSA, school choice program. We have a strong school finance bill that begins to restore some of the inflationary pressures that our schools have been under. We reformed Chapter 37 to bring more discipline to our classrooms.

We're making an investment in early childhood education because that's where it begins. If we want really productive citizens that can participate in the eighth largest economy in the world, we have to do that. And we provide property tax relief for, continue to do that for citizens across the state of Texas and House District 54. To me, that will be success, and that's what many of the areas that I'll be working on. Representative Darby. Folks, I've reached a time in life where I'm just going to, I hope you know me, I'm going to speak the way I feel. I'm pretty plain spoken. Texas is a crossroad.

We're enjoying unbounded wealth right now. Our oil and gas industry is producing revenues. When we look at surplus, it's largely on account of our oil and gas sector. Certainly our savings account is a direct result of severance taxes accumulating. So we're in wonderful shape. The question I would pose to each one of you, and there are some in this room that are kind of contemporaries of mine, some not. Do we want to focus on the short-term gratification of some of these policies that may make sense today but has no real long-term profound effect upon this state?

I'm a father of five and a grandfather of 12. The decisions that I make and that we'll make in the 89th session, I'll have to live under some of those decisions. But most of all, my children and my grandchildren are going to have to live under these laws. Are we all going to look back at this time and say, we wasted the opportunity, we wasted the resources and the good economy, and we focused on the short-term gratification of creating temporary feel-good measures. I won't property tax relief as much as anybody, but the idea that when faced with supporting our long-term infrastructure needs of this state. When you talk about $6 billion,

we only put $1 billion in the Water Development Board. We only put $5 billion in our energy grid to try to fix dispatchability issues. Are we as a state, we as a legislature, going to focus on the short-term political expediency of some of these issues, or are we going to address the long-term needs? Senator Perry has a vision for water.

$153 billion over a period of time. Anybody going to come to Texas if we don't have enough water to drink? No. If we don't address long-term infrastructure needs of this state, education is one of them, then we're not going to have a state worth living in. So I hope we fully fund schools. I hope we fully fund water. I hope we fully fund water.

I hope we fully fund the grid. I hope we fully fund our school safety. I hope we do all of that. We don't get locked down in some ideological rift that's just, it's the political issue of the day and we don't create something that has long-term ramifications for the study thank you for that and representative Kane same to you when it comes to public education school choice legislation what does a successful 89th session look like to you i believe that school choice

educational freedom whatever you want to call it and come with multiple we call it education savings accounts if you'd like but the the principle behind in esa you've heard it before and it i hate that it ever may become cliche because i don't think of this i believe that educational freedom is this civil liberty issue of our time. Those things are not looked back on as problems. We look back on them fondly of how we solved a problem and how we freed people from a system that was keeping them down and not allowing them to be as free, and that's what school choice does.

It also empowers teachers, right, to now market themselves and have a demand and improves their lives, right, because they now have more opportunities for teaching of different styles. But ultimately, I believe that if we fail to do this, history will look back at us as failures. This is about the future,

and so nothing could be further from the truth that creating a universal school choice This is about the future and so nothing could be further than the truth that that creating universal school choice or school choice program is Great as we can with the idea that we come back for more, but know what I'll be unhappy to scratch that It's all or nothing frankly This is the only thing is the only win But it's that simple this is about the future so So if we wanna have a bright future for Texas, we either create inefficiency in the market

and improve educational opportunities and outcomes, or we can continue to be left behind. What else do we do in education? We need to ban taxpayer-funded lobbying. We also need to ban taxpayer-funded lobbying. We need to continue to ban taxpayer-funded lobbying. And then we gotta defang the teachers unions. And that's not an attack on teachers.

Look, teachers unions don't care about teachers. They care about one thing, it's protecting the system and themselves. They don't care about meritocracy. They care about protecting that system and that funding. And so I'd like to see, and this is something TPPF supported before, is ending automatic union dues deductions for teachers. And so, yeah, end automatic union dues deduction for teachers, kind of defaying their organizational structure. If you didn't understand it, unions are communism,

and that's what they're doing here, especially in our government right there. And we've got to ban taxpayer-funded lobbying. That's it. Simple. Can you all get behind that? Okay. Well, let's give a round of applause for all of our panelists here today. Yes, thank you, everyone, for joining.

And stick around because we have a Growing Pains panel coming up right after this. So please stick around. Thank you for joining.