The Texan Podcast - Emergency Podcast - Texas House Democrats Flee the State to Break Quorum: Smoke Filled Room

Episode Date: August 4, 2025

In this special edition emergency episode of Smoke Filled Room, Brad Johnson and Cameron Abrams discuss the Texas House Democrats Flee the State to Break Quorum Over Congressional Maps. Tune in as they give the latest update now. Listen to more Smoke Filled Room podcasts from our team wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you hear, subscribe and leave us a review.

Cameron. Yes. Here we are once again for an addendum to our smoke filter and podcast that just went up this morning. Yes. Listeners we decided to do a quick emergency pod because the thing we spoke about at the very end of our episode that went out on Monday morning happened on Sunday evening and we didn't have a chance to adjust it on the fly so now we're doing this. Yes. And what was that thing Cameron? What happened? A apparent quorum break or an attempt at a quorum break. Yeah, because we do not we're recording at 12 32 On Monday, August 4th. Mm-hmm. The house is going to be called today at 3 p.m. And We don't know what's going to happen or maybe we do

Brad What is going to happen? I think odds are we probably don't have a quorum in a couple, two and a half hours. You know, going into the weekend, there was talk about Republicans just having enough Democrats sticking around to keep a quorum. And then on Sunday evening, Democrats announced that at least 51 members had fled the state to prevent a quorum in the Texas House. They branched off into a couple different states so far we've seen Illinois and New York and there might be more to come.

I know some are in Boston at a legislative conference. Some senators too were there. Oh, so This is a it rather than all centralizing in one location like last time which was DC They're fanning out elsewhere and they're doing the rounds with state governors They held a press conference last night a big group of them about 30 with Illinois Governor,. Pritzker last night. There were six that did a press conference with New York Governor Kathy Hochul on Monday morning and there's another presser planned for I think Warrensville Illinois tonight. So they are just like last time they're doing the media

rounds they're making a you know a big deal about this because it is a big deal but they're taking it from just a Texas issue to a national issue. Yeah well this redistricting has turned into a national issue all these other states the ones you just mentioned saying they're gonna respond doing their own redistricting in addition to California governor governor Gavin Newsom saying he's going to do something about it. But that's not what this podcast is about. This is about what's happened, what's transpired over the past 24 hours because a lot of crazy stuff has happened because after the announcement came out that they were getting on a private plane,

flying to Illinois, some flew to New York, like you mentioned, but we also saw some responses. We saw not just state lawmakers, but we saw Governor Greg Abbott respond, just what was it, a couple hours after the announcement of Democratic lawmakers leaving. So why don't you talk a little bit about what Abbott said in his

press release. Yeah so that was the big one because it made the biggest threats or the most specific threats I should say. Yeah. He issued a statement, well first I'll say what Texas House Democrats said as they were leaving. Okay. House caucus chairman Gene Wu said this is not a decision we make lightly but is one we make with absolute moral clarity goes on to criticize the attempted redistricting mid-decade redistricting. He then says we're leaving Texas to fight for Texans we will not allow disaster relief to be held hostage to a Trump gerrymander we're not walking out on our responsibilities we're

walking out on a rigged system that refuses to listen to the people we Represent as of today this corrupt special session is over so that caught the attention of everyone yeah across the country and Eventually, like you said governor Abbott replied and He was pretty forcefully said real Texans do not run from a fight, but that's exactly what most of the Texas House Democrats just did, rather than doing their job in voting on urgent legislation affecting the lives of all Texans,

they have fled to Texas, fled Texas to deprive the House of the quorum necessary to meet and conduct business. Of course, the business at hand is not just redistricting, it's a whole litany of things including a THC, either regulation or ban proposal, flood response, which is kind of the must pass of the special session, whether it's this one or the next one. And then AVID made the case that these members

have basically forfeited their seats. Now this was an argument made in the last time that Corran broke in 2021 over the election reform bill. There was an Office of Attorney General opinion that was written by Ken Paxton that asserted a court could conceivably find them derelict in their duties and declare the seat vacant. Now this is not something Abbott can do. Right, that's an important clarification. It's not this top-down thing where the governor can

say that seat's vacant. It must go to a court where a judge has to rule. And not just that, it must go to a district court in the county that these members are in. I saw this pointed out by Adam Lowy on Twitter. He was casting some doubt on a Travis County judge declaring a Travis County official, lawmaker, having their seat vacant. So that's a big wrinkle in all of this. Yeah. Well, you know, my kind of read on it is, you know, Abbott's talking about having special elections and whatnot that would follow to fill the seats. And I think if, not I think, if a seat is declared vacant, that triggers an automatic special election. But I don't think the play is to replace all the members, at least in the immediate run. The play is to get these seats declared vacant to then drop the quorum requirement from 100

down to whatever it is based on how many seats are declared vacant. Because if you have one seat, if a seat drops, it is declared vacant. Take the Senate. Kelly Hancock resigned. He's now at the Comptroller's Office. Lieutenant Governor Patrick has now said that the quorum requirement is based on not 31 members of the Senate, but 30 because that seat is vacant. It hasn't been filled yet via a special election. So less members lowers the threshold to meet a quorum. Yep, and oddly enough in the Senate, it would actually be easier to break quorum numbers wise, because first of all, there's fewer people, right?

But you have 12 Democrats, 19 Republicans, well I think now 18 Republicans because Kelly Hancock isn't in the seat anymore, and so you need, what is that, 11 members to break quorum. So you need all but one Democrat, I think, right? Yes, to break quorum. However, what's being talked about are two factors. Chuy Hinojosa is in a very competitive district in a general election election and this would undoubtedly be used against him in a 2028 real act because he was up last year. And then you have Judith Zafferini who has set the record for, and she continues setting the record for the most number of votes taken in a consecutive row. And she doesn't want to lose that. So that

sets aside, that's not even including what their personal thoughts on whether they as a representative should be able to should be breaking quorum or not, right? Right. So even though numbers-wise it's easier to happen in the Senate, politically speaking, it's the House that's doing this. Mm-hmm this because that's where the numbers are to do this. Yeah, and we saw that there were statements come in fast and furious last night and another one I want to bring up is from Attorney General Ken Paxton. Yeah, what'd he say? He was, gosh let me see if I can find it quickly here as we're talking about it

He said Democrats in the Texas House who try and run away like cowards should be found arrested and brought back to the Capitol Immediately we should use every tool at our disposal to hunt down those who think they are above the law Again a very forceful statement. Is that even logistically possible, legally possible for the attorney general to make a statement like that, to send out law enforcement to track down these lawmakers and in essence force them back to Austin. Is that logistically possible? Is there a legal cover for doing something like this? Well that's the thing we don't know it's never been tested before so take 21 they went to DC out of state the quorum breaks that

happened in 2003 went out of state, the idea is that state law enforcement jurisdiction ends at the state line. So Paxton is, if not outright asserting, but then he is suggesting or insinuating that maybe state law enforcement could go anywhere they are to apprehend them and bring them back. You know, that would be a that would that would be a very tough case to make. That would be an escalation. Yes. Yeah. But you know like it's untested. Yeah. And so maybe it would work. Maybe it wouldn't. Maybe it would blow up in their

face. We don't know because it hasn't been tested and Paxton is at least kind of eyeing the idea of seeing where the court is on it. Would Paxton need to get approval from anyone to enact an action like that? Would he need to get Abbott to sign on? Would he need to get the DPS chief to sign on to this? Or can he just say I'm going to do this? I think he would need the speaker's approval. He would need to be deputized as a, not like him, but the agents they have at the OEG, deputized as, forget the official term, but you know, basically officers of the House to then go and do the duty. Because is a this is a a legislative rules issue issue not

a legal issue broadly speaking now Abbott is trying to make that case that it's legal because he's he's arguing that members who are going out of state and getting reimbursed somehow they're getting bribed legislatively to skip town. And, you know, if it comes to that, there'll be a huge fight in court over it. But he's making that a legal case that there's a felony, potential felony here. Where it comes in for the House itself is that's a parliamentary constitutional problem for the legislature itself. It's not... Will that be interesting for a House member to call for a parliamentary inquiry on this very issue? Well we might see that today although if a quorum doesn't happen I think that stops all

business of the House other than the speaker issuing a call of the House, which will probably happen as soon as it as soon as it occurs. Burroughs put out a tweet shortly after and said all options are on the table, parroting what Democrats have been saying throughout this that all options are on the table to stop the redistricting map from passing. This is an interesting fight because Burroughs at the beginning of session his problem was on his right flank. You had more than half the Republican caucus vote against him for speaker and then until about halfway through session you still had some pockets of you know sizable pockets of members in open opposition to leadership that dwindled exponentially you know out but particularly after the

motion to vacate failed miserably the motion to vacate failed miserably, the motion to vacate by Representative Harrison. But now Burroughs, his problem is on his left flank. Yeah. And so I can tell you for a fact there is talk about this being a unifying moment for the Republican caucus. Oh yeah. To take Burroughs from a Democratic majority elected speaker to a almost entirely if not entirely Republican speaker. You know, it probably won't be that extreme but it might be like, you know, still have ten Democrats on his side but that's a far cry from what he had when he was elected speaker. Well, it seems like there's a lot of energy on the Republican side of this for more dramatic actions to be taken. Whether it be from the Speaker-Aligned members like Jared Patterson or even someone like Briscoe Cain has been very vocal in wanting to see an escalation

in tactics by Republicans with this quorum break. So exactly what you just said, this is Republicans finding common cause to work together in opposition to Democrats here. It's funny, this is the only thing that's been able to unite the two parties because normally they're just having internal factional fights constantly. And then you know I will say on the other side just as it's energizing the Republican base to have some more dramatic action on

this, the Democratic base was incredibly revved up for them to break quorum in the first place. We saw it at the the hearings, you know. One former staffer testified and said explicitly, we want you to break quorum and we will back you if you do that in the Friday hearing on the map. So one more wrinkle that I find interesting here is that Republicans were kind of on the back foot in the narrative fight throughout this. You know, they had their reasons to support a redraw. Chief among them was Donald Trump was asking if not commanding them to, right? But there are other reasons for them to do this.

They, but they were quieter generally, at least compared to the Democrats, because A, they have the numbers and you know as long as the quorum is maintained this thing's gonna pass. But also it's harder to defend a mid-decade redraw out in the open rather than just, you know, shutting your mouth and taking it on the chin and then getting what you want in the end, right? But now, we saw this happen in 21, the narrative is actually, it will gradually shift to the Republican side because now you have Democrats, while it is appealing to their base, and their base will not leave them on this provided they stick out the quorum bust, but the middle goes from, well, what Republicans are doing is kind of shady, even if they're allowed to do it,

to now, Democrats are skipping town and not, you know, abandoning their post, basically. you know, abandoning their post basically. And that's harder to maintain yourself on the beneficial side of than where the Republicans now find themselves trying to maintain order and bring, you know, Democrats who have absconded back to the House. So I see Democrats now on the back foot. Yeah and especially especially if someone like Governor Greg Abbott can find some legal footing in the soliciting of funds for this quorum break because that provides the legal basis for the types of actions I think that Republicans have at their fingertips here

Yeah if they if we start to see things coming out about Where funding was coming from who was taking money? Who is being supplied by if that aided in them breaking this quorum? I think what you just said is going to be spot on, where we're going to see that reflected in the energy from those in the middle saying Republicans actually have a basis for some of the actions that they want to take. Yeah, and you know, this isn't just wild speculation because this did happen in 21 where as time went on the public's

view of the quorum break waned and waned the support for it waned and waned now their base never left them but we talked about it quorum bus are grueling it's very difficult on the members themselves being away from your family for an extended period of time from your job, it's not pleasant. So that way, that... It's also expensive. Also expensive. Now the the idea I heard floated to get them compensated for this or at least reimbursed was to have them like you know give speeches to empty Zoom rooms I don't know if that's gonna happen but they'll get creative with how they how they do this and that you know they'll they'll look at all

possibilities to avoid any legal problem yeah right get some YouTube super chats right so you know we'll see what they do on that end but I think the only thing right now that will stop the snowball of momentum against Democrats that will slowly build up as this thing drags on is if you see Republicans actually arresting members of the House Democrats who have broken quorum. Because if you have, imagine the photo of, you know, I haven't seen her on this on either of the press conferences, but if Sinfonia Thompson, Dean of the House, 80 year old woman,

she herself is an institution in the House. If there's video of her getting put in handcuffs, that's gonna start to turn the narrative the other way in Democrats' favor. And so Republicans, they won't say this publicly, but the honest ones will tell you, maybe they'll whisper it to you that they were actually hoping Democrats would break quorum on a political narrative side. Obviously they want the map to pass, right? That's the main thing. But then also

on the flip side, Democrats are hoping that they get arrested. So you have these two sides that are in this basically Mexican standoff over narrative and that prevents action in either direction because there's hesitation to find yourself on a losing end of the narrative fight because that's really, that's how things are going to be decided here, right? Also Republicans have time on their side. That's how things are gonna be decided here, right? Also, Republicans have time on their side. Avid can just call another special session and pass them out.

Are Democrats gonna be out of state until December when the filing deadline happens? Almost guaranteed no, right? Then you have in other states, blue states are talking about responding in kind and redrawing their maps. Well, Governor Hochul in New York said today that the soonest they can redraw their map is 2027 for the 28th presidential election. And then, so that wouldn't even play in, that wouldn't counteract Texas next cycle in 26. Then you have California who is considering a constitutional amendment election in November to allow the the legislature to draw a mid-decade map, redistricting map, for one time, for an exception, because they currently cannot do it. Currently it's the job of the Independent Redistricting

Commission. They're trying to allow it for one time to counteract Texas. Well, if this thing drags out the whole rest of the session and then Abbott calls an immediate or near immediate special, then that's going to drag out another 30 days. In California, the deadline to send ballots overseas for the constitutional amendment election is September 21st so that would butt up right against that so basically Democrats have no time to respond they either have to do this before Texas actually passes the map or they're gonna run out of time to be able to do it in California and they'll have to find it in other states but a lot of these other states are already

really gerrymandered like look at Illinois, they could do it whenever they want. The legislature can redraw a map whenever they want in Illinois. They've already maximized, they're the most effective at maximizing their hold on the congressional delegation. So there's a lot of dynamics at play here and timing is everything. Yeah, and there's all those policy and legislative timelines and issues that are occurring right now and are going to occur over the next few weeks. But on the narrative front, I think this is something

that could be a match that lights the fire for many in the base, especially if we see, like you mentioned, lawmakers being hauled off in handcuffs to be brought back to Austin. That flips the script, energizes the base. We already see Greg Kassar made an announcement that he's going to be holding a rally at 530 outside the governor's mansion in opposition to all this redistricting. So the Democratic base, they are completely opposed to this redistricting. If they start to see

their elected officials, you know, arrested. That is further going to escalate the tensions between the two parties, especially at the grassroots level, which could, you know, there's already a fire burning. It just could turn it, you know, could be the spark that turns it into something bigger. Who knows? Yeah. Yeah. So this is is gonna continue to develop. We'll see it three. Officially the quorum broken, probably. Also, Steve Toth, Republican from the Woodlands, announced on Twitter that he is with his wife who's having surgery today, so he will not be on the floor.

So even if Republicans had 12 Democrats, you still will be missing Coram by one. It's gonna continue to develop. If it plays out like it did in 2021, you'll see a trickle of Democrats come back. Eventually the momentum will be too much. The being away from family and businesses is too much. And the difference is here though,

we're already halfway through the special. So it only takes what, two weeks to kill this thing. Less than that maybe. We can have to kill this special. So it's August 19th, that's the last day. So at least for this one, there's less time they gotta be away to accomplish their immediate goal,

which is kill at the special, but we'll be back here right again for a second special, no doubt. Yeah, and so they're gonna be meeting in the house at 3 p.m. What's the first thing that's gonna happen? They're going to, the bell's gonna ring, they're not gonna meet Quorumorum what happens directly after that the speaker

will probably issue a call of the house which means he's calling members who are not there to return and unexcused who are unexcused absent to return which can then also he can do this and not necessarily with a will but he'll probably do it is order the the sergeant at arms to begin the process of trying to locate Democrats who are not in who are unexcused absent and bring them back. Okay so the sergeant at arms will begin to try and locate these members. Which won't be very hard because we see where they are on social media they're just out of the state then you get the question of do they have any jurisdiction out of the state?

And then it becomes a legal question for both Abbott and Paxton at that point. Yes. About what they are going to do. Yes. Yes. Okay, so people should wait to see what happens with those two individuals. We still have a whole other chamber. Yeah. We've mentioned the Senate a little bit, but what happens with those two individuals. We still have a whole other chamber. Yeah. We've mentioned the Senate a little bit, but what happens with the Senate?

The Senate can still operate. Okay. They just can't get any of their stuff passed through the House. Okay. And so that means everything that we've covered THC is effectively dead. They've filed the bathroom bills, they filed lobbying, taxpayer funded lobbying, the flooding disaster really. That's how Abbott has been marketing it. It's been really hammering them for Democrats for killing flood response and flood relief for families in the whole country. Now this whole time Democrats have been hitting Republicans over you know putting the flood response off until after redistricting is passed. Now the

obvious reason there is because the flooding is the leverage to keep them in town for the redistricting. So I can I can already see the ads that come out where it's a Kerrville resident saying I needed flooding relief but Democrats blocked the bill from being passed. Yeah. You know, I can already see that happening. Well, actually Governor Abbott is running ads right now in Democratic House districts, accusing them of exactly that along with other things. Yeah. Yeah, I, I mean, this is a full on PR war and a fight over the narrative.

And that's what it comes down to. You know, I'm talking about what's legal, what's not. Ultimately, what's gonna bring Democrats back unless you're able to actually vacate their seats or justify going out of state to arrest them and bring them back is the fact that either one side's gonna win this fight one side's gonna lose and based on how it went in 21 Republicans are on the inside track to win eventually yeah and it'll it'll be a serious escalation of tactics if we do

see law enforcement deployed to go track down and arrest and bring these lawmakers back to Austin. And within our current political climate, you being someone who has covered Texas politics for a number of years now, you have intimate knowledge of that. Do you think that is a legitimate tactic that could be used or is it just all? blustering and Positioning arresting them out of state. Yeah Is that is that? Do you see?

The our highest law enforcement official great Ken Paxton and the governor Greg Abbott using that I uh, um, Ken Paxton and the governor, Greg Abbott, using that. I think circumstances have changed enough where they are going to try. They're going to test the waters on it and see if they can make it work. I am skeptical that they can do it, um, but I wouldn't count it out. Um, as always, you have to make the Not you but them making these decisions have to make the judgment on whether this is worth it politically, right? Or whether you wait them out?

Waiting them out is proven to work. Mm-hmm This You might regret it politically. Mm-hmm, but it all depends on how you're doing your political calculus. Is it more important just to get the map done or is it more important to wait them out and let all their options for retaliation expire? I don't know. These discussions are definitely being had behind the scenes by the top brass and we'll see what they do. Yeah, we are definitely in unprecedented times in this moment, especially if we see the extent

of our legal system being stretched and tested in this moment. So it's very fun. It's very interesting to see. Well and this whole redistricting effort has opened a Pandora's box of political tit-for-tat and it's hard to see it ending anywhere unless you know the fire kind of burns itself out. Yeah. And we may be seeing the ramifications of this for a long time. It all came down to Donald Trump asking Texas Republicans to find him five new seats and here we are. And as of 102, I don't think Donald Trump has said anything publicly yet about the quorum

break. I haven't seen him say anything publicly about the redistricting. So even before the quorum break, but it's only a matter of time before he weighs in I'm sure for sure anything else you think we need to mention before we end it I Don't think so. I don't think so. Let the chess match begin. Yeah, all eyes will be on the house at 3 p.m Lead us out Pod thank you all for listening. Catch you next time, again. Yes.