The Texan Podcast - Interview: Land Commissioner Dawn Buckingham on the Alamo, Fronton Island, 2024 Election

Episode Date: October 24, 2024

Land Commissioner Dawn Buckingham sat down with The Texan’s Senior Reporter Brad Johnson to discuss the future of the Alamo, Fronton Island, and the 2024 general election. Be sure to subscribe to The Texan for complete access to all of our content on state political news: https://thetexan.news/subscribe/Cozen O’Connor Public Strategies - The Beltway BriefingListen for of-the-moment insider insights, framed by the rapidly changing social and...Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Hello everybody, my name is Brad Johnson. I'm Senior Reporter here at the Texan. Today we have Commissioner Dawn Buckingham of the General Land Office. Commissioner, welcome. Thanks for joining. Great to be on with you today. You made quite the jump from the legislature to an executive agency. I'm sure there was some adjustment period, but you know, how, what was it like moving? You know, Texas is a big state. I mean, I'm teasing, but you know, we all know Texas is big. My Senate district was actually bigger than nine states in geographic area and eight other states

in population. So when I was running statewide, I kind of thought, I'll kind of run that equivalent in 17 states, but, but moving around the state is fun. But I love the executive branch because we just move forward at a rapid direction. So we have our rails set by the legislature. And as long as we're within those rails, we just go. Kind of pedal to the metal. And I've been really excited about all the things we've been able to accomplish. And we have all kinds of plans for things in the future. And it's an agency that deals with a lot, a wide array of different things. Do you enjoy that, getting to jump around from issue to issue? You know, I'm just one of those ADD kids, so it works out really well for me. And no one has any idea all of what the General Land Office

does. The fact that we are the last remaining entity of the Republic of Texas, founded to be keepers of maps, the guardians of Texas history, and the steward to what today is 13 million acres of state lands, which were, of course, set aside to fund education. So on that behalf, I'm the largest mineral owner in the state. We generate billions of dollars in revenue every year, pretty much, from the oil and gas revenue. And then, of course, we do a ton of agricultural leases and mining, other types of mining leases as well. We run veterans programs, veterans nursing homes, cemeteries, and our veterans land board because we're the only state that has a mortgage lending program for our veterans. So for our veterans out there, thank you for your service. But boy, do I have a deal for you if you want to buy a house, renovate a house, or buy some property. And then of course, you do everything Coast. So bee tree nourishment, habitat restoration,

derelict vessel pickup, oil spill cleanup, embarking on the largest infrastructure project that the Army Corps of Engineers has ever done in the coastal spine to protect our entire coast from hurricanes. Wrapping up the largest disaster recovery in the Hurricane Harvey disaster recovery. Kind of glad we're at the tail end of hurricane season. And I don't want to speak too soon, but so far, so good. And then, of course, we have this little thing going on at the Alamo, a little $550 million project. So I love my job because I love every aspect of what we do. I love every square inch of Texas, and it's just a lot of fun.

When I've heard you speak on the trail here and there, it seems like you really enjoy the historical aspect of the job. And you mentioned the fact that it was the last remaining entity from the Republic of Texas. Why do you get such enjoyment out of this historical aspect? Well, for starters, my family was the British consulate to the Republic of Texas. We're nine generations. We take that Texas thing pretty seriously. We also have an amazing archive. It's just amazing to go and walk amongst all of the original maps, see the handwriting of Stephen F. Austin and so many of our historical figures. And it's important. If you don't remember where you came from, you

can't figure out with how you're going. And in the current cancel culture kind of thing that we're seeing, and I do believe we are in a spiritual battle for the hearts and minds of our country and state, I think what we're doing is really, really important. Remembering our proud history, honoring that, standing proud, and defending Texas is what we do every day. You mentioned it already, and a big aspect of that is, of course, the Alamo. And that's been a years-long fight. It predated you as commissioner of the GLO.

Where's that stand right now? I know you just did a dedication of the new museum and visitor center. Where's it stand? I think we're in a great place with the GLO. Where's that stand right now? I know you just did a dedication of the new museum, set in Visitor Center. Where's it stand? I think we're in a great place with the Alamo. So let me kind of run you through everything we've got going there. So first of all, I do want to give a huge shout out, of course, Lieutenant Governor Patrick loves the Alamo very much.

It's very important to him. And he really shepherded $400 million from the legislature last session so that we could get the whole project done right. And what we're really doing at the Alamo right now is making a visit there worthy of the significance of the events for the first time since the battle. And I always kind of reference, you know, when we travel, we say we're Texans, right? Not Americans, but we say we're Texans. And then it doesn't matter where in the world I've been. As soon as I say I'm a Texan, they all say, oh, remember the Alamo. Because it has really become that shining star of making the ultimate sacrifice, fighting against tyranny for your beliefs,

your friends, your family, your country, your state. And so around the world, people identify with that story of the Alamo. And yet, when we brought people to visit our beloved Alamo, and everything's big in Texas, right? So people have expectations. So you show up, there was a busy street to cross, there was a lovely wax museum on the right, and everyone kind of looked at the Alamo and said, is that it? And you spent about seven minutes, that's what the statistics were, and then you went to do something else in San Antonio. So so what we have going now about a year ago we opened up a collection center for the phil collins collection famous british singer amassed a major collection so he bequeathed that to us so that's on display super cool stuff and then we've broken ground on a children's

education center for the first time ever we're going to have curriculum from early childhood all the way through high school so we can teach our kids our history. And when I say teach our kids our history, I'm talking the line in the sand, liberty or death history, which is so exciting. And they'll have places to eat their sack lunches for the first time ever and a place to really immerse and learn. And then we broke ground on the 100,000 square foot museum just a few weeks ago. So where that wax museum was, we've acquired those buildings. That's where the museum will be. Of course, it is battle-centric, but it sets the battle in the context of time.

We're going to learn about the early Native Americans that were there. We're going to talk about the mission period. We're going to talk all the way through the battle to how the Alamo continues to affect pop culture even today. So that is going to be really exciting. And then in the middle of that theater, we're going to have, or in the middle of that museum, we're going to have a 4D theater. So you're going to sit behind a defender. You're going to feel your seat shake when the cannonballs hit. You're going to smell that smoke and gunpowder, and you're going to be able to immerse in that experience unlike ever before.

And then we get to the church. Of course, what we all call the Alamo is the church in the fort, and it has some structural integrity issues. And so that's where I advise and just tell everybody we're going to be communicating out our plan, but we've got to do some pretty serious things to be able to be sure that that building is standing in 500 years. So we've assessed that we have some structural integrity issues with the walls. Part of the sacristy was actually cut down by a third when the army issues with the walls. Part of the sacristy was actually cut down by a third when the Army moved into the building. The first roof it had on was actually when it was 100 years old, about 30 years after the battle when the Army was storing, oh, I don't know, things like gunpowder in the Alamo. They put a simple wood roof on. The roof that's

on now was put on in the 20s, and it's extended its lifespan and is causing active harm to the building so that roof needs to come off of course we take that roof off we're going to have to protect the Alamo so we're going to have to build a temporary emphasis on temporary protective structure over the top of it because can you imagine if we had a massive rainstorm or if we had one of our big hailstorms with softball size hail that would be a real issue so we're going to get it protected we're going to get a new roof on we're in process on figuring out what that looks like and then we'll get it all put back together and it'll be great but it's going to be a bit of a process and we want everyone to to just be aware and be informed and and hopefully speak

in truth as opposed to like making up stories. Next on the front with the Alamo, probably around January, we're going to start the renovations needed in the Cenotaph. Cenotaph is roughly 80 years old. It too has some structural integrity issues. So we're going to get that all fixed up and in good shape so that it stands for a very long time as well. Is there a timeline on when you'll expect this all to be done? We're hoping to have it done in about two and a half years. Okay. That's pretty quick.

You know how construction goes. Yeah. So we'll see about that. But, you know, we're going to take the time it's going to take to get it done right. Gotcha. Gotcha. One other big fight that y'all are undertaking, along with the rest of the state government, is Fronten Island,

and dealing with that vis-a-vis the border security issue. You know, what's been your role in this broader political fight, generally? I have to tell you, that's one of my favorite things that we've done so far, because I got, I'm not just the first woman land commissioner, but I got to be the first person to make Texas bigger in a few hundred years. So I joke, watch out Alaska, here we come. But anyway, so I, you know, the ask had been in for several years, so I'm not really sure why it took so long. But when I got sworn in, DPS had written me a letter and just said, hey, Don, we have these little sanctuary, sanctuaries for the cartels in the Rio Grande, these little islands. And because they weren't claimed, neither American law enforcement or military could step on them,

neither could Mexican. And so they literally were law enforcement free zones. The cartels built structures, of course, housed drugs, weapons, abused small children and women. I mean, you name it, right? All terrible things. So shoot, I just called my team. We're the mapping entity for the state. We determine where the center of the river is by our treaty with Mexico in 1836. Anything north of the center of the river is, of course, Texas and the United States. So I figured it was pretty easy. We

double-checked, and 48 hours later, we declared the first island. First one was a few acres. Second one was about 40 acres. And then, of course, Fronten Island, the big one, was 171 acres. And they had built structures, we found IEDs there, that's what I can tell you we found there. I'll let your imagination run wild. Of course all the weapons, ammunition, drugs, abused children, everything you would imagine to find. So as soon as we claimed it, of course, DPS and the Texas Military Department, as part of Operation Lone Star, got on the islands, got them cleared, got the wire up, and we have complete operational control, and nobody is coming across those islands now.

And there is a legal fight going on with this. You know, the federal government sued over the issue. Can you give us an update on where that stands, if you know? I managed to have gotten the attention of multiple federal agencies at this point. So, yes, the water boundary, border, whatever it is, agency sent us a little letter, and we basically responded back and said they should learn how to read a map or write. But that's still being hammered out in court, right? So it might take a couple years.

I'm sure it will be for a long time. Okay. So moving on to another issue that you all deal with a lot, energy, managing the lands, and then specifically related to the PUFF. And the new fund, is that the Texas University Fund, I think? It seems like a new challenge to introduce this new entity that is going to be pulling some of this money. How do you balance this?

If you're looking for a political podcast that goes beyond the headlines, check out the Beltway Briefing. I'm Howard Schweitzer, CEO of Cozen O'Connor Public Strategies. Every week on the Beltway Briefing, our team of former Republican and Democratic presidential appointees, Capitol Hill veterans and political advocates shares behind the scenes perspective that cuts through the noise. If you want the inside scoop, subscribe now to The Beltway Briefing here or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, we don't have anything to do with the new university fund. So I chair the board for lease for the permanent university fund lands. I think it's roughly 2 million acres.

The 13 million acres I run for the permanent school fund, which is, of course, K-12 permanent university fund does UT and A&M. That makes us the largest mineral owner in the state. So that's why I have that. I have a really big drum to beat to stand up and fight for oil and gas in Texas every single day. So we're leading the fight on all the Endangered Species Act. We're leading the fight suing the Biden administration, of course, over their natural gas moratorium that we think he illegally did. We're giving our companies the opportunity to get carbon neutral. So the feds have all these sticky guidelines that by 2030, if they haven't reached a certain amount of carbon neutrality, they cease to be able to operate.

So we just did a 1.2 million acre lease for coarse-based carbon sequestration. We believe biggest of its kind in the world, for sure biggest of its kind in the U.S. So we're looking for all kinds of ways to stand up and defend oil and gas and take away the tools of the Biden administration. Actually, I should say the Harris administration is using to try and shut down oil and gas.

And one of the other things we're doing is we're part of the Produced Water Consortium. So if, say, produced water that you re-inject does, in fact, cause seismic activity, that could be another tool that the Biden administration could use, or I'm sorry, the Harris administration could use to completely shut down oil and gas. So we're trying to get that produced water to agricultural levels for the same amount of money as it would be to re-inject it. So we're hoping to turn West Texas into a garden oasis. And in fact, with that water, I have crops growing on state land right now.

And so we're just being transformational every way we can. It seems like the angle y'all come at this from is the property rights aspect. And obviously managing lands, that's a big part of it. Do you feel like that's an easy case to make or is it more difficult than you thought? I think it's a very easy case to make. I think the problem is our judicial system is not very much about justice. So it's a fight we'll keep fighting. But we'll fight it on every front every single day because we're unapologetically for oil and gas. Clean energy is really what differentiates a first and a third world country.

Good energy that's reliable and inexpensive and oil and gas right now is hands down the best at that. We do not anticipate any renewals on any of our state land. That being said, we're also being pretty feisty fighting that Biden wind farm that they're trying to put out in the Gulf of Mexico. I mean, just go to Sweetwater and they say that those fan blades last 25 years. Those wind farms are not 25 years old. And yet, you've seen the cemeteries, 30-plus acres, fan blades piled 30 feet high, 20 feet high. And so if they don't last in West Texas for 20 years, they're sure as heck not lasting out in the Gulf. And none of them have withstood a Category 5 hurricane. So just imagine that 22-foot storm surge with fan blades surfing on top of them shish kebabbing into your

house. So we're fighting that pretty hard. Of course, I don't have any sway over what happens on federal land, but I can deny them access to their transmission lines. And I told them they shouldn't anticipate getting a permit from the General land office. So, so far, their lease sales haven't been as successful, although I do think they did a lease sale to one company that I believe maybe completed one wind farm on land, maybe. So, there looks like they're really getting cream of the crop out there. Do you anticipate being successful in that attempt to stop that wind farm? Oh, I 100% will be successful about the transmission lines across state land. Interesting. Interesting. Okay.

That will be interesting to watch unfold. You mentioned the Endangered Species Act, and that's another one of these many legal fights that you've got to wage. So, I mean, there's the dune sagebrush lizard. There are a couple others that have happened recently. It seems like every year or so another species pops up that the federal government declares as part of this. How do you keep up with this? It seems like an uphill battle. Well, it'd be nice if they followed their own rules and science,

actually, but clearly they don't, and they haven't, and that's why we think our legal arguments are so sound, and we, again, if there's justice in the justice system, we should prevail easily. But again, I don't think they really care about the lizard or the various freshwater mussels or the other animals that they are talking about. I think they just want tools to try and shut down oil and gas to play to the left side of their party. I'm sure you've spoken to property owners, whether they're in the oil and gas industry or just ranchers who've been affected by this. You tell us what the real life impact of these policies are on these people. Well, I mean, if they managed to

shut down oil and gas, that would be devastating, not just for Texas's economy and America's economy, but for the entire world. And so many people forget that oil and gas isn't just what you put in your car. It isn't just what makes your lights go on when you turn them on. It isn't just what actually powers your electric vehicle, but that's a whole other story. It's the chairs we're sitting on. It's the makeup ladies put on their face. It's probably a lot of the clothes we're wearing. It's a component of almost everything that you touch and use every day. And so shutting that down, $10, $20 a gallon gas, you know, all of our families who are in the bubble, all of our families who are struggling through these high inflation times, raising their energy costs, which put them over the edge. And so we're just going to stand up and fight again for our families on the bubble, for the oil and gas that funds education to the tune of, you know, a billion-ish dollars a year.

Built the permanent school fund, which is roughly $55 billion, the largest, oldest sovereign wealth fund for education that exists in the country. Some say Harvard's bigger, but I don't think so. We're going to argue with them on that. But, yeah, so it's just a big, important part of Texas. And so again, that's why we just stand up and fight these fights. You mentioned that they need to follow their own science. Are they exaggerating the threat to these animals? They're not even going through their own protocols, whether it's the wind farm, they haven't even done their environmental studies. You know, we've got all these mammals

that are hurt by the windmills on the northeast coast out in the ocean. We've got the birds that migrate from North America to the Caribbean. So pretty much all the birds that migrate in North America across that will go right through that wind farm. Windmills already kill a million birds a year. When you get to the lizard, the lizards actually love the pipes on the ground they hide from the heat and from the getting eaten by the birds in them they're like little lizard highways so their numbers are actually increasing is what I've seen so it's just all those little things you know they don't want to deal with verifiable facts and they're just using a mythical tool and

we're just going to say whatever they need to say to achieve their agenda. So obviously, this is now the second day of early voting. Big election coming up on November 5th. Any predictions on what we're going to see? Trump's going to win in a landslide, as are all the Republicans. But I just remind everybody, get out and vote. Bring a bunch of your friends. It's a simple talking point. You know, I kicked off a Trump deal just the other day. It's a very simple talking point. To all your friends who are undecided or in the middle or even on the left, just ask them, are you safer today in your home than you were four years ago?

And that answer is no. Are you in a better economic place? That answer is no. The average American family has about a 33% reduction in their wealth because of all the inflation, because of everything that's happening. You know we're we are less safe, we are less off economic, less well off economically. All those things that really matter, all those kitchen table issues, Trump wins in a landslide. His policies as president, everybody in America was doing so much better. So those are easy talking points. Let's unite the forces and let's win in a landslide. If Trump does win, obviously that's going to change a lot in terms of the federal government's

juxtaposition to Texas. You know, what do you expect to be the biggest change for the state should he win? You know, what I see is that the federal government uses every punitive tool it can against Texas. They harm us economically. They harm us in so many ways. For example, when it comes to disasters, to meet that threshold, Texas has to reach a roughly $54 million in damage threshold before that we're eligible to be considered for federal aid. Our neighboring states all have to reach about $11 million. Completely different. Why is that? Because that's how HUD and the Fed set it up. So what I see is that they are, any way they can,

they are making it hard on Texas and trying to suppress how good we are. And the reason why is because we are spanking all those liberal states all day long, economically, safety-wise, every single way we are beating them. And so they try to level the playing field by actively hurting us and actively trying to artificially prop up those liberal states. There's a lot of talk about who knows if it'll hold true, but if Trump does win, you know, there'll be some administration spots open for anybody. And there's a lot of speculation about some Texans taking that and then has the potential to kind of open things up at the top that this kind of dam breaking that everyone's been waiting for. i gotta ask you you know it obviously you're enjoying your current job but any any um thoughts

on pursuing higher office if that were to happen you know we'll see i mean obviously if abbott went to dc the lieutenant governor automatically becomes governor and the senate elects lieutenant governor so that doesn't shift anything um you know'll see how the – we always look at every opportunity that opens up, but I do love my job. Obviously, this is going to – this election at the state is going to impact a lot next year for Session, a lot up in the air. Is there anything that you as land commissioner would like to see the legislature pass next year?

Well, I am technically prohibited from advocating for or against any policy, but I would really like them to approve my budget. That's for starters. And I'll be honest, there were a few things that magically went away when my predecessor was in office that the other agencies have, some capital authority and some things that we would just like back it helps us function okay any details on what those are you know what the main one is there's a certain capital authority and I may not be calling it exactly right but it allows us to like for example there's a project in at Bolivar Peninsula it's it's been very long going project when it started it was

going to be a nine million dollar project now unfortunately it's a 33 million dollar project but we had to get special approval even though it wasn't going to take state dollars we had to get special approval from the speaker from the lieutenant governor from the governor and and not throwing any stones at anybody but that delay just takes a while to get all that approval to go through all those three offices. But that cost us another couple million dollars just with that delay. So if we'd been-ish 10 years ago, I would have just been able to do it, and it wouldn't have been an issue. And we want right oversight, but we just want parity with the other agencies. And we think it was taken away for a reason that doesn't exist anymore.

Gotcha. Understood. Okay. So, you know, GLO does a lot. You've talked about a lot of it. Is there anything that you think flies under the radar that doesn't get enough attention that the GLO does? You know, I think our main thing that needs more attention are just our veterans' benefits, because I feel like

our veterans especially on the homelessness front or especially those of those who are struggling with mental illness or post-traumatic stress or all those things I mean our mortgage program I have veterans in the legislature who don't really even understand our mortgage program you can buy any house any piece of land up to a certain level, of course, you know, can't go borrow $10 million from the Veterans Land Board, but it can be combined with your spouse. If you and your spouse are both veterans, you can get a double benefit and combine it into a single mortgage. It can be combined with the federal program. So you might even be able to get away without having to put down a down payment. And in a time when so many of our veterans are struggling economically, I just feel like we want them to know, like, we're here.

We appreciate you. Another super neat thing, two other things are both veterans related. So we have a Voices of Veterans program. So we invite all of our veterans to come. We do kind of a videotaping. We sit down. The interviewer's a veteran themselves. And the veterans tell us their stories. So many of our veterans, especially from

the older wars, they didn't come home and tell their stories. And so their families are actually hearing some of these stories for the very first time. And to create that living history, that archive of firsthand experiences and firsthand accounts, I think is really special. The other thing we do that I would tell people to kind of follow us and look out for. So right after I took office, I had a cute feisty veteran in our East Texas home, and she wrote me a letter and said, Hey, Don, I want 100 cards for my 100th birthday. And I was like, well, done. And so we sent some cards and we did a little social media push out and she got several hundred cards and was overjoyed. So then we said, well, this is a great idea. Every time we have one of our residents turn 100, because that's a very special thing,

then we'll do a card drive. And so the second veteran got several thousand cards. And then we've done three and our third veteran got 7,000 cards. We also do a Valentine's for Veterans Drive so we'll push it out too but for people just looking for an easy way to show appreciation or bring some joy into some of our veterans lives those are easy things to do and it's just so fun to be a part of that. Do we know how many veterans in Texas are homeless? You know I'm sure there's a number there. I don't have that on my head. But too many.

One is too many. And the fact that we have seen veterans be displaced from illegal migrants coming across the border is absolutely inexcusable. How much has that happened? It has happened. have several occurrences where entire like housing type, whether it's a public housing, big apartment complex, or sometimes, you know, they'll do kind of hotels, makeshift things, but there've been, it's tragically way too common. Yeah. Commissioner Buckingham, anything else you'd like to add? I just love being your lane commissioner. Thanks for the opportunity. Great interview. And I appreciate you coming on. commissioner. Thanks for the opportunity. It was a great interview and I appreciate you coming on.

Yeah. Thanks for having us. Thank you.