The Texan Podcast - Interview: Rep. Trey Martinez Fischer on School Choice, Border Efforts in Texas Legislature

Episode Date: October 10, 2023

Want to support reporting on Texas politics that doesn’t include the spin? Subscribe at https://thetexan.news/subscribe/  Rep. Trey Martinez Fischer, the chair of the Texas House Democratic Caucus, joined The Texan’s reporter Brad Johnson to discuss the start of the new special legislative session. Martinez Fischer discussed his views on two of the top issues that Gov. Greg Abbott included on the special session call, efforts to pass school choice and border security legislation. The caucus leader for Democrats also weighed in on the speculation that some members might attempt to oust Speaker Dade Phelan from his position amid the tensions between Phelan and Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick. “We have to remind everybody that the Speaker of the House is not the speaker of the Republican Party, it’s not the speaker for the MAGA wing of the Republican Party, it’s the Speaker of the House. He’s elected by House members, men and women, both sides, both parties” said Martinez Fischer. “The speaker has been a very fair presiding officer on how we administer and interpret our House rules,” said Martinez Fishcer. “That being said, there a lot of bad ideas that come across the floor — a lot of bad ideas, more bad ideas than good ideas.”

Howdy, folks. Mackenzie DeLulo here, senior editor at The Texan. On this episode, Representative Trey Martinez-Fisher of San Antonio, the chair of the Texas House Democratic Caucus, joined The Texan's senior reporter, Brad Johnson, to discuss the start of the new special legislative session. He weighed in on border security and school choice. Two of the agenda items Governor Abbott has tasked the legislature with addressing. He also chatted about the efforts to potentially oust Republican House Speaker Dade Phelan from his position and give insight on where he and the members of the Democratic caucus are at with his leadership of the chamber. Thanks for listening and enjoy this episode.

Good afternoon, everybody. This is Brad Johnson, senior reporter here at The Texan. I'm here this afternoon with Representative Trey Martinez-Fisher, chair of the Texas Democratic House Caucus and longtime state rep. How many years have you been on the team? I mean, it seems like it's too long, right? I ran out of law school at UT, class of 98, was elected in 2000. I'm still here, so that puts me like 20-something years, right? Wow.

You can drink, right? I'm kind of like the old man on the campus now, you know, so. Well, it's been, you know, a pretty hectic morning, I would say, in Texas politics, although you just came off the floor floor and it was a lot less, there were a lot fewer fireworks than we kind of thought there were going to be. Yeah. What did you guys think going into this? I think people are more, there's more bravado when they're on Twitter, I guess.

I don't know. Clearly, there was a lot of discussion about calling a question on the presiding officer. So that's kind of fancy talk for maybe having a referendum on the speaker. There were some members who have been talking about that, that they were going to do it. And today probably would have been not the only day, but today probably would have been the day that that might have happened. The rules don't tell you that you can only do it on the first day. But I think there are a lot of people that we're expecting to have, you know, a little bit more than what we had today. Yeah. And like you said, that can be brought up at any time by only one member.

And who knows if it's going to come up again? You know, as caucus chair for the Democrats, at the end of session, you guys lauded Speaker Phelan, or at least a lot of members did. Where do you see your caucus's membership on Phelan's speakership? Sure. It's a great question. Look, we have to remind everybody that the Speaker of the House is not the Speaker for the Republican Party. It's not the Speaker for the MAGA wing of the Republican Party. It's the Speaker of the House.

He's elected by House members, men and women, both sides, both parties. And the speaker is to preside over the House and let the will of the House work its will. And so in lots of instances, you can see some signs of bipartisanship. There was maternal mortality legislation that gave women 12 months of postpartum care with Medicaid. That was a groundbreaking piece of legislation that was led by a Democrat. You see tremendous strides made in the budget when it came to funding women's health, when it came to doing better in our public health space, mental health space. Those initiatives led by Democrats. You look at tax policy, the idea that there's now an opportunity to increase our homestead exemption to $100,000.

Those are Democratic proposals. And so when people have positive things to say about their experience in the House, I think people are thinking about that. All of that being said, there are a lot of bad ideas that come across the floor, a lot of bad ideas, more bad ideas than good ideas. You know, we don't have a lot of help from the Speaker of the House with regard to that. We're Democrats. We're on our own.

We have to fight those things tooth and nail. You know, the Speaker has been a very fair presiding officer on how we administer and interpret our House rules. Everything we do in life has got some set of rules and parameters. And on the House floor, we have rules. We vote on these rules. We adopt these rules. And then we use these rules to pass legislation or to stop legislation.

And the Speaker's been fair in that regard. I don't think he's put his finger on the scale one way or the other. He's just played it down the middle. He's received criticism for that. Now sort of fast forward to where we are today. There's a call on the chair. There's a lot of ifs in that. Somebody asked me this question earlier at a press conference.

So there's a lot of ifs in your question. If there is a motion that's made to remove the presiding officer, then a lot of things have to happen. You know, is the person following the right procedure? Is he or she following the rules? Do they have the votes? Once it gets to a juncture where this is something that has to be disposed with by the House, well, I think House Democrat caucus, we can easily meet and talk about, you know, what our options are. And, you know, there are not a lot of options. You could vote to support the speaker.

You could vote to be opposed to the speaker's leadership. Or you can sit this one out and say, hey, not my fight. This is a fight between two Republican parties that are fighting each other just like the speaker and lieutenant governor are fighting themselves. And let them fight that out. I'm going to sit here and be present and not vote. The biggest issue for this current special session that we just started is education. There are a few different facets to that. There's the school choice voucher aspect of it. I know your caucus held a press conference today saying, no way, that's not happening for us. But the Speaker also said, after you guys gaveled out on the floor,

that if something gets across the line in the House, it will have to be combined school choice voucher along with an increase to school funding. Where do you see – do you see that going anywhere for your members? For the speaker to say that, that tells me the speaker listened to our press conference or someone told him about our press conference. Look, this is a very simple proposition. We're talking about three sets of numbers, 5, 40, and 43, right?

There are a little over 5 million children in Texas public schools. We're not going to quit on them. We're not going to turn our back on them. We're not going to abandon them when it comes to their needs. We are $40 billion in the hole. We're not going to turn our back on them. We're not going to abandon them when it comes to their needs. We are $40 billion in the hole just to get back to average. Think about all these politicians. Go read campaign mail.

Go look at TV commercials. Everybody talks about doing, hey, we're going to put our money in education, education, education, education. Just for Texas to be average, we need $40 billion to put back into the school system. That's just to be average. And then, you know, where we stand right now with this lackluster investment in public schools, the status quo under this current leadership, we sit somewhere between 42 and 43 when it comes to school funding in the country. We're at the bottom. So, you know, yes, of course, we have to make investments in our schools. We're not going to let the governor take our public school system and hold it hostage, hold our children hostage. I mean, end of the day, children need the tools to succeed in the classroom.

That's investment in public schools. There's a teacher somewhere in Texas right now thinking about quitting the job he or she loves because they can't afford to stay in the profession because we don't pay them like the professionals that they are. And then I bet you somewhere in this state, there's a bus driver scratching his head wondering, when am I going to get a new set of tires on this bus? You know, we need resources for education, tying it to a voucher. You know, we're not going to have our arm twisted on that. So look, this caucus is united, no vouchers and no deals. And so, you know, what we see here is the Speaker of the House making a very, very conscientious, you know, declaration that we're going to do anything and it has to come with school funding. We believe as Democrats, we can talk about school funding all day long without it being tied to a voucher. If I recall correctly, the budget for public education did increase somewhat substantially,

but you're referring to the basic allotment per child, right? That has not increased as much. Where did the money go, basically? You know, look, school is expensive. Five million children in 254 counties, two time zones in the state of Texas. I mean, it's big. But the last time we put real money, you know just, for every listener to just break it down, looking at your budget, look at your family budget. We have not put new money in public education since 2019.

That's pre-COVID, number one, and that's pre-inflation. I'm a pretty big guy. I like to eat. I do the grocery shopping. I know how expensive it is in the grocery store. There was a time when eggs cost $7 a dozen. Well, guess what? Schools use lots of eggs. And so we are funding schools at 2019 metrics, and then we blame them when they can't get it done. The last time we gave teachers and school staff a pay raise, 2019. A lot has happened since 2019. A lot has happened since 2019. So at the end of the day, we have not kept our promise

to our teachers, to our counselors, to our nurses, to our kids, to our parents. I mean, all of this is being funded by taxpayer dollars. Every time someone goes to the store and buys something and they charge that eight and a quarter percent sales tax, that money's going to the schools, should be going to the schools. So if we're doing our part, if we're putting money in the treasury and we're not getting it back in our classroom, then that's the ultimate scam. I mean, you know, vouchers is one set of scams. That's an entirely different scam when you are hoarding taxpayer dollars and not using them the way we intended them to be used. Getting our affairs in order, doing things right in public education is one of the few things we are required to do in the Texas Constitution.

Free public schools. Doesn't say anything about vouchers. Doesn't say anything about education savings accounts. Doesn't say anything about school choice and parental choice and all these fancy slogans that certain Republicans are trying to spread to get this initiative across the finish line. The Texas Constitution talks about a free and a public school. The argument from your opponents on this issue, say, is that, you know, it's fair for the money to follow the student.

That's the slogan, basically. What's your objection to that? You know, it's like the same person who says, you know, I don't like my city parks, you know, so I want my tax dollars to go to park funding to go pay my country club dues. I mean, we don't have an a la carte government, right? Oh, I don't like, no one's fixing my road in my neighborhood. I want my tax dollars back. We don't have an a la carte government. We have a government that funds the common good. And the common good right now has a little over 5 million children in our K through 12 system in 254 counties. There are over 125 counties that do not have a private school option. What are we going to

do for them? And so this notion of taking a voucher scam to subsidize tuition for the rich is not what I came to Austin for. And that's what I've told my opponents. Show me where this will work. Show me when we're not just subsidizing private school tuition for the rich and those who can afford it. Tell me we have a private school system where those schools are going to be accountable like our public schools are. Tell me we have a system that any kid, no matter what language they speak, can walk into a private school and get an education. Tell me where we can have a kid walk into a private school and be guaranteed that they're going to have a bus ride to get to and from school.

Tell me that we're going to walk a kid into a private school and let them have a hot lunch. Because frankly, for most kids in this state, the only time they really get fed is at school. If something were to pass on the accountability side of things, what do you think are must-haves if there is a school choice voucher program that is passed this year? I firmly believe that there will not be a school voucher passed, but I think the rules that we have in place for our public schools are the same types of accountability standards we should have for private schools. Now, that being said, there is a lot of things happening in our accountability side in public education that shouldn't be happening. Like we should not have an education emperor.

We should have an education commissioner who takes guidance from the legislature, takes guidance from the public. We shouldn't have a commissioner that has these runaway rules to be able to change how they evaluate schools in the middle of the school year. I mean, so look, there's lots to be done in terms of how we improve our public school when it comes to accountability. But whatever accountability measures we have in place for publics, we ought to have them for privates. So switching topics a bit, on the border, that's another topic we're going to address or at least discuss during this special session.

A lot of ideas on the table. First of all, I want to ask you about the report that the Biden administration was kind of expediting construction of the border wall. That's kind of an about face from their previous position. What do you think about that as a Texas Democrat? Well, as I understand the debate, it sounds like the president was making it clear that funds have already been appropriated by Congress to build this wall. He can't undo that. The only thing that was standing in the way were these administrative barriers and red tapes and so forth. And he waived those. Look, I don't think it's good policy. Walls, you know, 25 foot walls only invented 30 foot ladders, right? I mean, you know, having a border wall is not how we're going to secure

our state. Having a comprehensive immigration plan that works is what we need to be thinking about. And when I think about this debate, I think about, you know, we act as if the border compromise and the border, you know, crossings that we have are unique to Texas. We have borders from California to Texas. We've seen solutions in other states that appear to work. We know that Congress is sort of deadlocked. And as we sit here today, we don't really even have a Congress. We have a House of Representatives in Washington that is not working, that has no power, that cannot function. You know, for people following world affairs right now, there are things that we could be doing as this country to get involved in the discussion as it relates to Israel. But the House can't even act if something were to happen with the Senate and with the administration.

So all that being said, listen, there is a way to have a comprehensive immigration reform plan that does more than just build barriers and put buoys in water and builds bridges. I mean, excuse me, builds barriers. We want to build bridges. We want to figure out ways we can have work programs. We can have visa programs that make sense. We can have a path to citizenship. We can make sure that good people who come in and want to follow the sense. We can have a path to citizenship. We can

make sure that good people who come in and want to follow the rules, that there's a place for you. If there are people who want to come to this country and do us harm, well, there's a place for you too. And we also want to recognize for all the bad things that pass to and from our borders, we know that the scale of these harmful drugs and opioids and fentanyl and things that are coming to this country, we know that they not only come from our southern border, they come from our northern border. And we also know they come through our ports of entry. So making sure that we have a 21st century port of entry system that is checking every truck expeditiously, using laser-like precision with all of the latest technology, you know, we can have a tougher

position on the border and show humanity and compassion for people who want to come here because they're escaping violence, they're escaping human rights abuses, there are women who are fleeing to protect themselves from being raped and ravaged from people in their home countries. There are lots of reasons. I mean, let's just think about it the other way. How many of us would take the trek from the border in Texas and Mexico and make it down to Venezuela and travel that same road? Many of us wouldn't do it.

The ones that would would probably be because their life depended on it. So, you know, Republicans have been dealing with this a lot running the state. You know, it's a it's a federal issue, right? Or at least mostly a federal issue. And they're trying to figure out how the state can address this. What at the state level do you think is a must have on this issue? Well, you know, look, I mean, I think that this is this is the perfect area where Texas can lead. I mean, if if if the governor thinks he can do a better job on this issue than the president,

why doesn't he ask for a voucher program from the federal government? Give me my immigration dollars. You're not fixing things. And let the immigration dollars follow the problem. And we have a problem here in Texas. I mean, look, at the end of the day, we have to have a safe and secure border, number one. We have to have order. We have to make sure that we are promoting our trade and our commerce,

and we're living up to our treaty obligations with our trading partners. Mexico has become one of the biggest trading partners, especially now that more companies are relocating from China to our hemisphere. Mexico is now ever so more important. And so we have a business partner that we need to make sure that we're interacting with. And then there's obligations on both sides. Immigration does not become a problem at the Texas border. Immigration becomes a problem from the time that person leaves their country and travels

the road that they travel to get to the United States. So it's got to be safe. It's got to be secure. We cannot be in denial that this is a country that was a country that is made of immigrants. This is a country that is embracing and inviting of immigrants. We have more immigrant success stories in this country than we do from the hyperbole and all the rhetoric we hear from Republicans to try to make immigrants villains and all the bad folks, the escape goats.

And so we have to approach this issue with humanity and with some compassion. I mean, you know, whether you read the Old Testament, the New Testament, you know, even the Bible has a lot to say about making sure that we are protecting the sojourner, the traveler on our road, making sure that they have food to eat, make sure they have something to drink, make sure that we are being compassionate and taking care of them. And so to me, you know, if we are leading with those values, if we're leading with our values, that we can be doing a much better job instead of putting people in cages, you know, having people sacrifice their lives, having to navigate through razor wire, having mothers who have had miscarriages and have lost pregnancies trying to get to this country,

but they can't because of the atrocities at the border, there's a better way to do that. And the governor should be ashamed of himself. The border itself seems to be an issue that Republicans actually made some ground on your party with, especially in that border region among Hispanics. Do you think that the Democratic message can still appeal to that group entirely? You know, does it work? Sure. So I think that, you know, the fiction about, you know, Republicans making inroads along the border, I think really deserves like deep and thorough analysis.

The gains that have been made don't stand in the shadow of the popularity of someone like President George W. Bush when he was governor and when he ran for president, had much higher marks with Latinos in South Texas than the current crop of leaders. So I throw that out there for baseline, right? Number two, I think we're all in a different position here. I'm from the city of San Antonio. You go to San Antonio, you'll see one of the biggest migrant resource centers in the country. The city of San Antonio opens its doors. We are doing it now with this crisis at the border. We did it for evacuees during Hurricane Katrina.

That's just who we are in San Antonio. We don't judge. We help people find a way to a better life. And so that's how we see it in San Antonio. There are people in the valley that are on the front lines. They see this a whole lot differently. And we have to respect their viewpoints. But every single colleague that I talk to in South Texas does not have evil in their heart.

They have compassion. And they are humane. And they want to provide a better way of life for people at the border. But what gets them upset is the failure to act, the failure of the Biden administration to solve the border is to put a bunch of floaties and spend a billion dollars in the middle of Rio Grande and get sued by the United States over it. I mean, so I think there's a lot of frustration there. But that frustration is not aimed at a mother who's escaping violence in her country, or from a young boy who feels like if he doesn't leave his country, he will be beat or killed if he doesn't join a gang. There is no ill will towards those folks. And I think that we need to be very clear-eyed on that, that I think the frustration that you see is really with this

inaction. Moving back to the legislature, you guys have been in session almost the entire year. Looking back at the regular session, what do you see were the high points and the low points? Sure. I mean, again, the House Democratic Caucus, I have to take my hat off to them. They work hard, and we're just like any other family. You know, we are on and off. We've got a lot of love for each other.

We also have a lot of competition with each other. We also have a lot of competition with each other. We all have different priorities. We all come from different places. But when it comes down to really, really galvanizing and supporting the things we believe in, we come together like nobody else. And so a lot of these bad ideas, whether it was a bad voting piece of legislation, whether it was a tax on transgender kids on transgender kids. You know, a lot of these bad ideas were Senate bills. If you go back and look at the tape, you will see they all had S's in front of them, which meant the House did its job in stopping these ideas from ever leaving the House. You know, we are the Democratic minority. We can't stop everything. But I take my hat off

to the men and women that sacrificed so much to stand up for the people that they represent. You know, we have a good budget. We spend a lot of money. You know, finally, you know, Democrats are paying attention. I mean, excuse me, Republicans are paying attention to things we cared about. One other proposal I didn't mention is Donna Howard has fought her tail off to make sure that feminine hygiene products are not taxed. You know, she's fought her tail off to make sure that adult diapers are no longer going to be taxed. I mean, these are things that people need to live their daily lives. And because of her tenacity and because of her grit, that is now a state law that we don't tax those products.

It has taken forever for people who listen to this and don't know the legislature, I'm sure you're rolling your eyes going, that is not a big deal. It's a damn big deal in this legislature, where even the smallest ideas seem to be so uphill. So to be able to do that, to be able to get Republicans to finally understand that there's nothing wrong with a pension. There's nothing wrong with a defined benefit plan that says that, hey, if you're a teacher and you give so much of yourself to commit to a profession, you're not going to get rich, but you are always going to have something. We're never going to leave you. We're going to give you a pension. We're going to give you health care. To know now that retired teachers are going to get a cost of living

adjustment. I've been in the legislature, I think I told you, 20 years. I have not seen it in 20 years. So we are plowing new field for, you know, it has to be approved by the voters, but I'm confident that it will pass. And so a lot of good things that happened were shaped with Democratic hands, and we should be very proud of that. You mentioned earlier, feeling how he handles points of order, the rules in the House. You know, that's always been a focus for you. You're always at the back mic calling points of order, and that seemed to be a focus for you. You're always at the back mic calling points of order. And that seemed to be a bigger focus in the Democratic caucus during the session.

Was that a concerted effort? You know, I'm an old school guy. And there are a lot of, you know, members who have experienced members. I mean, we have a lot of experienced members in the Democrat caucus. And we know the rules, the rules matter. And we know that we have parliamentarians, they're going to play it straight. You know, what people don't know about the rules is that even if you're right, even if you're just if it's just dead center, and you're right, the recommendation from the parliamentarian on a rule is only advisory. The parliamentarian just advises the speaker as to what he or she thinks. It's the speaker who decides.

And so when there was a commitment that we're just going to play it straight, the rules are the rules. Everybody knows the rules. You know, you're going to be the sword one day, the shield in the other, right? So a lot of the experienced members took that to heart, and they worked hard on that. I mean, Democrats did such a good job. You didn't see me up there very much at all. I mean, I'd have to stand in line because there was a small army of men and women out there fighting on rules. And that's sometimes when you're in the minority, that's all you have.

I keep telling you I'm from San Antonio and I'm a big San Antonio Spurs fan. There was a time that Spurs just had this lockdown defense, Bruce Bowen and these folks just really locking down the court. That's what House Democrats are doing in the legislature. We are the wall. We are the defensive line. We are the last stop between a bad idea and a point of order. And so I'm very proud of the men and women who apply the rules and learn the rules and use the rules on a daily basis. Sometimes that really stops bad policy from ever passing. Chairman, anything else you want to add about this session? Man, I don't.

I think we got it all. But now that I know where you are, I can always come back. Yeah. Well, glad to have you and, you know, be here for another 30 days probably. Yeah, yeah. We will. Well, maybe we'll do it again. Thanks for joining us, sir.

Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Thank you to everyone for listening. Appreciate it. God bless you and God bless Texas.