The Texan Podcast - Interview: Sen. Brandon Creighton on School Choice in Texas' Third Special Session

Episode Date: October 12, 2023

Want to support reporting on Texas politics that doesn’t include the spin? Subscribe at https://thetexan.news/subscribe/  Sen. Brandon Creighton joined The Texan’s reporter Cameron Abrams to discuss the ongoing effort to send school choice legislation to Gov. Greg Abbott’s desk. Creighton, the chair of the Senate Education Committee, is the author of Senate Bill (SB) 1, the centerpiece legislation for Abbott’s top priority for the current special session. He discussed the details of his legislation, including why the bill did not pass during the regular session earlier this year and the dynamics between the House and Senate when tensions are particularly high. “This is the emergency item,” said Creighton. “So I do believe we need to treat it as such and we need to expect that whether it’s in this third called special session or the seventh called special session, that we will be working in a way that at the end of the day, hopefully will help kids the most.” Creighton also responded to criticism from a Democratic colleague who claimed that the legislation would promote racism and resegregation in schools, and discussed differing views on the policy within the homeschool community.

Howdy folks, Mackenzie DeLulo here, senior editor at The Texan. Today, reporter Cameron Abrams sat down with Republican Senator Brandon Creighton, the education chairman in the Texas Senate, to talk all things school choice and special session. Why didn't school choice pass in the regular session? Why does a universal school choice plan have a chance now? How does he respond to concerns and criticisms raised by Democrats and some Republicans about how it might impact public education? Can the Senate and the House come together to follow Governor Abbott's directive

when the chambers and their leaders are more at odds than ever? Thank you for listening, and we hope you enjoy this episode. Well, Senator Creighton, thank you for joining us today. I want to actually start with what happened during the regular session, because you proposed a variety of different school choice bills, SB8, then it was SB9, and then HB100. They weren't able to get across the finish line. So can you talk a little bit about why do you think they weren't able to pass during the regular session? Yes, and I appreciate you mentioned the different vehicles, right? I mean, we do our best when we regular session, January to May, with these issues separate. School finance in the budget, teacher pay with teacher rights in a separate bill, Senate Bill 9, as you mentioned, and then school choice in Senate Bill 8.

Those were passed and sent to the House. The House took those bills, some of those bills, all the way to the House floor for debate, but then postponed them indefinitely and rejected the issues remaining separate. So at the very end of the regular session, we had House Bill 100, as you mentioned. That was the only education bill we had remaining. And in the last days of the session, we poured all subjects into that bill as a last-ditch effort to get it across the goal line. That was also rejected. Yeah. Well, you've sort of taken the tack with SB1 and SB2 separating out the ESAs from the teacher pay raise in the special

session, correct? Yes. In the special session, we have returned to our original strategy and intention. We spent time through most of the regular session with these subjects separate. And in the special, we have, again, remained consistent. We have Senate Bill 1 in this third called special session that's public school funding and teacher pay. And then Senate Bill 2, school choice. Well, and let's talk a little bit about SB1, the school choice plan, because for a student to be eligible, it's if they're entering pre-K or kindergarten or they are currently in a public school. Is that correct? That's right. Right. And so can you talk a little bit though about the ESA accounts themselves in terms of there's $8,000 per student. Why did you choose ESAs as the driving vehicle for school choice?

Yes. And I appreciate your sequencing because yes, SB1 is the school choice bill and then SB2 is the school funding bill. And so for SB1, we tried to learn from the landscape and the experiences that we had during the regular session on what the members preferred in the school choice legislation. And of course, this is an emergency item, right? I mean, the governor established this as one of the very few emergency items back in January. And it's very important that we get it accomplished. I mean, the governor would not be establishing it with that high of a priority if he was not seeing and many of us were not seeing across the Texas education landscape that we need to be. Unfortunately, we would be the 32nd state in America to pass expanded school choice. Texas should have led on this issue. But what we can do is we can craft a bill with eligibility that

is greater than any other state offers. And we can put the funding behind it that shows a commitment not just to pass the policy, but to put our money behind it and invest in a way where these kids will truly succeed. And we plan on doing both. Can we stick on the eligibility portion a little bit? Because I was seeing some people talk about how homeschoolers were not included in SB1. Is there a thought about including them in an amendment somehow? What's your thoughts on including homeschoolers? Well, and we're staying consistent there, right? I mean, in SB8 during the regular session, we found that the homeschool coalitions were somewhat split on whether or not they wanted to be included in the bill. And so that was indicated through public testimony in the

hearings. And we've continued to work with those organizations. Of course, the Texas Homeschool Coalition is one of the largest organizations, not just in Texas, in America. So we're working towards going to the Senate floor, also working with that organization and members to see what their appetite might be to further expand to homeschool families, at least for transportation or for curriculum or for some of the specific needs that they have. And I think, again, this bill is a work in progress. we could very well see them added. But Senate Bill 8 in the regular session did not as much include homeschool families either. And I think that's just a result of some of those communities still being a little bit apprehensive on what kind of strings would

come with that, how their homeschool world might change if government gets involved in some way, shape, or form with regulations that affect homeschool families. And so there's some anxiety there as to whether or not they would be included, what comes with it. And so we're working through all of those natural tensions. And this is a process. So stay tuned on that one. Okay. Well, I was watching the committee hearing that you guys had yesterday.

And there was a tense moment with your colleague, Senator West. And he has said at one point that ESAs are racist somehow, school choice, are going to resegregate schools. I just want to know, what's your response to his claims of that? And what's the transparency and accountability that is going to be within SB1? Well, I was disappointed that Senator West mentioned that. Of course, the origin of his concern and actually what he stated at the outset was that vouchers were rooted in a history that was tied to racism and segregation. What we see through, you know, many of the empirical studies across the nation that we're relying on for the success of school choice, which is overwhelming, that it has also been very clear that it has improved diversity and integration into schools. And we have well-cited and well-documented studies that show that. Those that oppose these policies, they don't seem to rely on documentation or sites or empirical

studies. They hold up the front page of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, as Senator West did on the floor of the Senate. As I was talking about my studies, that was the counter. So I was disappointed that any mention of racism would be tied to this legislation. This legislation is designed, 90% of the framework, to help kids that qualify for free or reduced lunch, or that come from families with a modest income, or that are disabled or have special needs to have a fighting chance to have a better education. And then the rest of the framework serves all children in Texas to be able to apply. But there's a sort of a weighted preference to help the very vulnerable communities that Senator West and I both are concerned about.

So any implication of something nefarious or different than that, I thought was disingenuous and designed to just confuse the audience and create bias against the policy. Right. Well, we're seeing a lot of rhetoric like that, not just from Senator West, but there was the Texas House Democratic Caucus that held the press conference and they were calling it the school choice a voucher scam. That was their words. Why do you think these misnomers about what the bill is, is out there? Why do you think they, do they just not understand? Or do they not know the difference between a voucher and an ESA? What do you think it is? You know, I'm still hoping for bipartisan support on this bill. And maybe that is just way too much optimism. But I was very disappointed in the rhetoric from that press conference that continues to call this a voucher, where you and I both know from a voucher, money is distributed straight to the family.

And in an education savings account, the money is safeguarded. It transfers to the education provider direct. There are audit provisions. There are some of the strongest anti-fraud provisions in the country tied to this legislation. And that's a way that we have learned from other states. Even though I wish that we would have been first, if we're not first to pass school choice or expand school choice, at least we can learn from models in other states that could be improved. And so we've looked at Arkansas and Iowa and Utah and Florida and Arizona, many other states, North Carolina, and we've improved upon those frameworks. But I felt that the rhetoric from the press conference was just designed to incite fear and opposition and bias that ultimately hurts kids.

And I think that that is a terrible example of what a public servant should be all about. Well, let's talk a little bit then about, because you said you wanted this to be a bipartisan coalition behind the ESA bill. So what are some of the conversations like in the Capitol just between lawmakers when someone might be against vouchers or apprehensive about school choice? What are those conversations like that you're having with those lawmakers? Well, I think from the mention of hoping for bipartisan support, you know, that would reflect the Texas landscape, right? I mean, 77% of families that vote Republican support these policies to help kids and moms and dads have education, freedom, and options for the future. And 50% of Democrats support it. So I just think that Texans have expressed loud and clear their support for

ESAs and for school choice. If anything, I don't think we're being bold enough. So in the Capitol, we're having very similar conversations, but certain pockets of Texas feel very comfortable with what they have in place. And they're not really casting a vote like many members do outside their districts many times on the border or on the Texas electric grid or for health care efficiencies or for a CPS overhaul or many other issues that they vote outside their district. On this particular issue, there's some members that have been somewhat protectionist in mindset that everything's OK at home, so we don't need it.

And I would ask that members have an open mind and an open heart to help kids that may not live in their district and help kids that certainly do live in their district that need these options and these choices. Special needs kids and those that come from a very difficult home environment, whether that be based on income or other issues, or families that have become very worried about the fentanyl crisis in public schools or bullying or school safety in general. There are so many issues that might warrant 60,000 kids out of 6 million to be able to have a fighting chance at a better future in education. Right. And so you're talking about a lot of different issues that are involved in the education system.

And we've heard Dade Phelan, House Speaker, he has mentioned that for school choice to pass, it needs to include teacher incentives and public school funding. What are those cross-chamber conversations like? Do you see that there's going to have to be a more omnibus school choice package that includes both school funding and school choice in one bill, or do you think it can remain separate? Well, as we began the program talking about the different strategies that the Senate has relied on through the regular session, we attempted both, right? We started out in the regular session, and from January until around Easter, we kept these issues separate. And when that was

rejected, we bundled the issues together in May in a House bill and sent that back over. So I think my friends and colleagues in the House and the Speaker and his leadership team, they'll work any way they possibly can in a diligent way to figure out what's best for the House and how that represents their own individual districts and intentions. And then I'm ready to work with Chairman Buckley as soon as that happens. And they're able to come together on a certain bill or framework to negotiate from there. If it's not quite up to the Senate's expectations, that's not something that I'm worried about because we consider so many bills where the House and Senate versions don't match and we have to go to conference and work on it from there. We're in a special session, so it's a different dynamic, right? It's not 10,000 bills that we're focusing on,

and this is the emergency item. So I do believe that we need to treat it as such, and we do need to expect that whether it's in this third called special session or the seventh called special session, that we will be working in a way that at the end of the day hopefully will help kids the most. Right. Well, with the rivalry between the chambers, it seems like at an all-time high. You said if it's not in this special session, it could be in the seventh, right? Anticipating this going beyond a third special session to pass school choice? Well, tensions are high in the seventh, right? Anticipating this going beyond a third special session of passable choice? Well, tensions are high between the chambers, and that's not an understatement,

right? I mean, that's widely known. But also, I mean, again, whether it be the border or the grid, whether it be tough issues on lockdowns and shutdowns that we worked through post-pandemic, whether it be the largest storm in American history, Hurricane Harvey, that other parts of the state didn't really feel, but that we had to have significant policy and funding to recover from. These tensions are natural and they're not uncommon. And the public really doesn't expect us to rubber stamp these policies. They expect us to vet them in a way that doesn't always create a rosy picture day. But I think the public deserves us to handle this like a business. And I do believe that we are. I think that there are many good relationships between senators and House members.

Chairman Buckley and I working as education counterparts are a great example of that. And I'll continue to be ready to produce the best school choice bill that we possibly can. Well, before we wrap up, is there anything that you want to mention, anything you want to say going into SB1 hitting the Senate floor? Anything you'd like to mention? I would just say that the future of Texas begins in the classroom. And if we're all day to day worried about the future of this state, we're all keyed in and very involved in doing everything we can and continuing to ask what else can we do I think all focus across this state should be on how we educate these kids and their specific needs going forward and as we lift up public schools with funding and teachers with compensation like never before that

we should all unite and get behind this school choice effort, because the fear that is being circulated around it to defeat it is just so unfortunate for these kids that will be served. And I think members' hearts and minds will change their opinions. I'm optimistic about the bill passing, and I think that we will see years from now that it is one of the greatest decisions we ever made. Great. Well, thank you again for joining us.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you to everyone for listening. If you enjoy our show, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you want more of our stories, subscribe to The Texan at thetexan.news. We are funded entirely by readers and listeners like you. So thank you again for your support. God bless you and God bless Texas.