The Texan Podcast - Sen. Brandon Creighton Talks School Choice in the Senate and Border Protection Plans for Texas

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

Sen. Brandon Creighton sat down with Reporter Cameron Abrams to talk about School Choice in the Senate and Border Protection Plans for Texas.Listen to more interviews from The Texan wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you hear, subscribe and leave us a review.

Well, hello, Senator Creighton. Welcome in. Thank you for joining me today. Yeah, it's good to be with you. So I want to actually start with your elevation to the position of President Pro Tem. And you were acting governor for a moment as the Lieutenant Governor and the governor were in DC for the inauguration. Tell me what was that like and what does this new position mean to you?

It was great to answer your first question. It was a rare situation where with the inauguration going on and our Texas leadership so involved and front and center at the inaugural ceremonies and then we had snowpocalypse. Right. And so with all of that going on it was a great honor to not only be elected by the Senate as president pro tem but also to serve that week in that position while the governor was out of town. Well, this session has really been dubbed the education session.

There's been a number of pieces of legislation filed, both in the House and the Senate, but I wanna focus on SB2. Can you tell me a little bit about how SB2 ensures that private schools and homeschoolers sort of maintain their autonomy while accepting these funds through the ESA accounts? Sure, sure, of course. So, you know, SB2 is a follow-up from 2023 when we passed it out of the Senate from 2023 when we passed it out of the Senate at least four times, right? And we continued to send our school choice plan that at that time was a 500 million dollar plan funded out of the surplus for about 40,000 students to have an

opportunity through a lottery selection to receive one of the ESAs. The House continued to reject that plan and then we left after many special sessions and many attempts. I think we were in session instead of 141 days we were, you know, we finally left Austin December 9th after those specials and after that little known trial that we were involved in. And so with all of that going on we came into this session after planning and working throughout 2024 to prepare for this regular session with a bigger faster and bolder and better funded plan which we should have and we had another surplus this time around so we designed a plan for a billion dollars of coverage and you know just the universal, fully universal section of the plan itself on eligibility would be the largest launch in American history for a

school choice plan and that's about 20% of the coverage. We've got 80% of the coverage and the weights for the use of the funds for special needs and income vulnerable students. So home school and private school and making sure that strings, you know, don't attach to either of those education opportunities is very important to me as the author and I know the Senate has gone to great lengths to make sure of the same. Now we also can't have the greatest distribution of wealth, redistribution of wealth in American history either. We can't just shove a billion dollars out of the door and hope that everything works out okay.

So we have some reporting that is required of those that hold the ESA that's anonymous. It protects their identification and their personal information with new cybersecurity provisions in the bill. And even the bill from 2023 had the best fraud prevention provisions of any bill in the country, but we've even strengthened it more. So we'll have those that hold the ESA, and again, 80% of them are coming from public school into a home school or a private school opportunity, will have those families and those private schools protected against any change in the day in the life of.

But for those that do receive an ESA, they would have to, at some point, take probably what they would already be taking, which would be a norm reference test, and report anonymously on those findings. Right. And you brought up the school choice legislation that the Senate passed last year, filled in the House. And there was a lot of pushback from Democrats on the school choice front but also some Republicans and it seems like there's been a lot a lot more critics online to school choice this this round. I want to bring up one of the things that you don't say. Yeah, well I noticed that. Yeah, it's been interesting to observe and I want to I want to bring up some of the things that... You don't say. Yeah, I noticed that. Yeah, it's been interesting to observe and I want to bring up some of the things maybe you can address them. Like many of the school choice

critics, they generally say it's being driven by what they call big money donors. And can you kind of clarify how this bill benefits the students directly and not just either corporate or political interests. Yeah, only in politics could you have a genuine effort to help kids with a disability and kids that are income vulnerable. Would you have those that are opposed create some sort of rhetoric or nomenclature attacking it, saying it's a

scam or that it's a nefarious plan from West Texas billionaires trying to get rich off of a private school, which I don't know if you've seen the books on a private school lately, but they're definitely not where you make a billion dollars. Many of, many of them, you know, have balanced budgets and their board makes the decisions that are fiscally responsible for those schools and they make the, you know, they do the best with what they have.

But many of these that are attacking with that billionaire reference are funded by George Soros in everything that they do. So I think the hypocrisy is just incredible there when you're trying to do essentially what 32 other states in America have already done under Republican and Democrat governors and not reverse those plans. And the reason why they haven't been reversed is because they're incredibly successful

on behalf of the students that need help the most. And for Texas to be following on that, I think it's just a tragic situation that we're in 2025 and we still haven't brought those opportunities forward on behalf of students that need help the most. And we're going to do it this time around. Yeah. Well, something you also mentioned is some of the sort

of oversight and the ability to track where this money might be going. And so what sort of measures are in place to prevent this legislation from maybe becoming a tool for data mining or financial exploitation by private entities who might be receiving ESA money? I mentioned the cyber security prevention, you know, fraud prevention related provisions in the bill and also the bill without those last time around would have been the strongest in the country at protecting the individual identities and information related to the ESA holder. We've gone to great lengths and the positives in passing a bill like this in 2025 is having

the technology to be able to do so, where Florida 25 years ago and Arizona pretty much the same a quarter of a century ago started this effort and you really don't have any evidence around the country of the information of the private school choice or ESA holder being divulged. So I think those are all incredibly important topics to bring up on behalf of our students and making sure that the bill is strong in that regard. But to bring that up as an attack

in an effort to kill the bill, I think it's just really sad that people use those types of concerns to prevent our Texas students that need help the most from having an education a path and education that's customized just for them and their parents. Yeah well one of the other concerns that I've seen voice is in regard to how school choice will potentially expand government into people's private lives through these ESA accounts. So does this bill reduce government intervention in bureaucracy and education?

Does it increase it? What's your thoughts on that issue? Well if you call having extra employees to make sure that the families are served properly, an expansion of government, then yes, it expands government, I would assume, but I don't consider it to be in that category. I mean, we chose an already existing state agency,

the comptroller's office, you know, those that handle money for our state to develop the framework and manage and operate it. And, you know, I think we've got what 20 years plus in Texas where the number of state employees really is not much different than what it was 20 years ago. So we've shown a culture and a budget to do more with less even in government employment positions. But again, the attacks continue to roll in against these kids.

And I think it's just incredible that those type of attacks are manufactured on let's say growing government. You can't have a plan without people to run it, right? But obviously if you read the bill, it's very lean in what it requires as a framework to make sure that 100,000 families in the state can get answers in a live body if they decide to call and ask questions about running that type of an operation which requires quite a bit of work and planning

and service-related categories. And again, we're doing that with much less than more for a consideration on what it would take to do so and do it effectively. So if we're gonna to launch the largest school choice plan in American history from Texas, even though sadly we're following, I don't know what Texan is proud to follow any other state. But in this situation, unfortunately on behalf of our kids, we are following. We're way behind. And now that we're able to launch, we need a plan that's bold and big and impressive.

And so rather than focus on growing government where we're putting it in an already existing state agency, let's focus on what the kids of Texas need as NAEP scores and student outcomes across the state show that less than 30% of Texas public school students are performing at grade level. Let's talk about that. We've grown government and thrown money at solutions for a very long time without innovation

and because of that mindset, that government mindset, we've gotten the results that we deserve. And in almost every state where school choice has passed, public school outcomes have gotten better. College readiness has gotten better. Safety has improved as these families are polled. Bullying is down. All of these different incredible categories

just continue to show that these students thrive in these opportunities and we're doing so many incredible things to protect our public schools and lift them up as well as our public school teachers. So all of this can be done in harmony. And these objections are false objections that just scare teachers and scare the public schools and they achieve what they're designed to do which is create division and chaos and who loses in that are students. Well I want to talk about the big beautiful bold plan you got here. A billion dollars.

Yeah. Right. And there was a lot made of the fiscal note when it was published and proposed. So can you be specific in the cost to taxpayers of implementing this school choice program and how it will be funded and in later biennium's predictions for how bigger it might get or how it will be affected. Yeah this plan serves 1.8% of public school students across the state. 1.8%. So it is the largest launch in the history of the country for a school choice plan. Arizona started with

just over 300 students, Florida began with 17,000. We're beginning with 100,000 students, but at the same time the guardrails and the measured structure of the launch itself is very responsible. structure of the launch itself is very responsible. And so as we're moving forward to make sure that these students are served correctly and they have what they need, I think, you know, what concerns did you mention? I think some of those concerns are just, they're going to work themselves out. Well, from what I remember on the fiscal note, it was showing it was gonna be, as the program expanded in later bienniums, the amount of money needed to fund the program

would also expand as well. Yeah, the bill doesn't allow for expansion. So when the legislative budget board extrapolated 20% of student growth in the program and the growth of the funds until 2030, they might as well have just done that for fun. That might as well just have been a cartoon because just as their testimony indicated in Senate finance last week, there's nothing in the four corners of the bill itself that allows for any growth in the program. Future legislatures and appropriators would have to decide is the program successful

and do we have adequate revenue at that time? And they would have to make a decision on whether or not to continue to serve the families that are allowed to be served in the bill or to take legislative action and appropriation related action to expand and that would be on into the future. So the justification for LBB to grow those numbers and the number of students served it had no justification in the legislation. Okay that's a good clarifying point thank you. And I want to touch on one more thing related to high school sports, because there was actually a piece published on texasfootball.com,

the largest high school Texas football website. And I just want to read an excerpt for you and have you respond to this, because it was directly mentioning the school choice program. It said, I'll read from it here, quote, the school voucher program could do real harm to Texas high school football. The school voucher program would have a profound substantial effect on public schools across the state, both for schools that lose students and schools that don't, and that effect would also almost certainly hit Texas high school football programs.

The article then goes on to say that football programs would, quote, not have as much money to operate, and that the programs would inherently incentivize some students to leave public schools, which threatens to splinter those communities, further dividing them into haves and have-nots. So, what's your thoughts on some of those concerns regarding high school football and how that you know it is a big thing here in the state? Yeah Florida's had school choice for a quarter of a century and Florida feels like they produce better high school football athletes and outcomes than Texas.

Perfect. That's that. I mean, I think for someone at Dave Campbell's magazine to write a story like that, especially without calling us as the author, it's not real. OK, it's it's I mean, those are just Friday night like false objections to again, to scare people. And you know who's mentioned last in an article like that coming from a magazine that used to be

incredibly reputable. I used to buy it all the time now I don't. But who finishes last are the students that need opportunities in education that in a bill that's 80% weighted for special needs and income vulnerable kids and I didn't see any part of that article focusing on what those students might need or the fact that it the plan is again represents 1.8% of total Texas public school students. So look, there's no one that's more of a fan of football and sports in general than I am. But I have a feeling that Texas football programs are gonna be fine.

And we need to focus on kids and their education outcomes, especially those that need help the most. Yeah. And so if we zoom out a little here, how will the success or failure of this program be measured for you and over what time frame? I think our moms and dads are going to be able to tell us very clearly is it a successful program as we continue our oversight and we come back into session and we are able to talk to these families and understand better how these kids are thriving and growing and learning and

reaching the outcomes that they deserve. We have incredible pressing needs on our workforce in Texas. We're either going to lead the nation in job creation or we're going to lead the nation in fast food job creation. And we're either going to lead the nation in job creation or we're going to lead the nation in fast food job creation. And we're headed very quickly towards the latter. So these innovative ideas in education, having opportunities across the board and all different types of choices for what best fits the students and their parents, their families, their guardians. That's what Texas should be all about.

It shouldn't be all about all of this fear-mongering and these false objections that really just don't show anywhere in the nation to be valid. But all of these different stakeholders that have a vested interest in politics, control, power, and institutions want, you know, what they believe is theirs in an entitled way and mention the students last in almost every category and it's time for that to stop. So we're going to

put a stop to it this session. This bill is going to pass. It's going to be incredibly successful and we're going to measure its success by what our moms and dads and our families report back to us in the legislature just like we do on every other issue. We're going to listen as politicians and we're going to learn from Texas input and that's the way this works as opposed to Washington or many other states across the country. Yeah. Well I want to pivot just for a moment to another piece of legislation that you filed that is related to the border wall construction and allowing for eminent domain for that construction to occur. Talk to me a little bit of why you see a bill like that is

necessary right now. I see that bill as one of the most important priorities we can accomplish out of any of 10 to 11,000 bills that might be filed this session. And if, you know, of course I rank, you know, our first conversation right up there at the top as well. That's why school choice is an emergency item. And that's why the border was an emergency item, and that's why the border was an emergency item last time around, and we continue to put our efforts

and our resources into it, because look, Donald Trump was incredible in his first term as president. He kept every promise he made, and that's why he's back in office now. But in that first term he accomplished just over 300 miles of border wall. And that's, if we accomplish that same amount of, you know, mileage

with the border wall construction this time around in this term as he serves as the 47th president, that's not enough. We have to plan for when Donald J. Trump is not in office four years from now. And as Texans, if we don't have a way to build a wall without football field size gaps in the wall, then why are we spending billions and billions of dollars to build a wall in the first place? We have to have the leverage of imminent domain and condemnation to make sure that the taxpayer is not gouged in building this wall.

But coming from one of the best pro property rights protection vote, you know, votes in the capital, I have a very strong property rights protection voting record. If we're going to commit to building a wall with billions and billions of Texas taxpayer dollars on double taxation, because the feds didn't do it for so long and now we're taking care of ourselves.

We have to plan for when Trump leaves office and we have to be prepared to pick that responsibility back up again and build a contiguous wall, not a wall that has a mile of panel that you can simply just walk through a mile down the road. Right. Yeah. Well, I wanna finish with this just walk through a mile down the road. Right. Yeah. Well, I want to finish with this.

As chairman of the K-16 committee, what other issues are you planning to address this session? I know you filed a teacher's bill, a rights bill, teacher pay raises. What other issues are you focused on? Well, we see that teachers polled that are inside of 60 months in their career. You know, they're in the year one through five that 77% of them are considering leaving the profession. So safety actually polls first. It's not compensation.

But we're going to address safety. We're going to address discipline in the classroom. We're going to reverse our changes on truancy that we made years ago. It was a terrible move and we should have never done it. We're going to reinstate those truancy provisions. We're going to address the constant disruptors in the classroom where in our Teacher Bill of Rights, we'll be the only state in the country where if a teacher sends a constant disruptor out of the classroom, even the principal can't put that student back in the country where if a teacher sends a constant disruptor out of the classroom,

even the principal can't put that student back in the classroom unless the teacher signs off on it. So we're going to go back to a zero tolerance on our conduct, bad conduct in our Texas public schools because our classrooms are not reasonable solid learning environments like they should be and our teachers need help. So addressing K through 3 literacy, momentum and efforts and progress, that's top of the agenda for us. Special education funding, we're seeing an incredible rise in needs for students that have special needs and we're falling behind on those funding opportunities and those supports for them.

Many different categories in public ed and higher ed as we bring this bold reform agenda as the chair of K-16 and however long I'm serving in this position, we're going to be very bold in our efforts to turn around our public schools and our public universities and Texans expect no less. Well thank you very much for joining me today and good luck the rest of the session. Good thanks for having me on and we'll see you again soon for updates. Excellent, thank you.