The Therapy Edit - Ask Anna- how can I not damage my kids by separating?

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

In this Monday episode of the Ask Anna series, Anna is joined by fabulous broadcaster, Cherry Healey.Together Anna and Cherry tackle the following connundrum: 'I'm slowly accepting the fact that my relationship isn't making me happy and that I am too young to accept that this is just the way things are going to be. The only problem is I'm paralysed by the fear of what life could look like on the other side and the enormity of breaking my family up is preventing me from taking the next steps. Can you help?"Cherry Healey is a broadcaster, best known for presenting Inside the Factory on BBC One with Paddy McGuiness and 10 Years Younger in 10 Days. Cherry Healey began her onscreen career with numerous gritty documentary series for BBC Three focusing on life through the perspective of a woman, whilst also sharing her own personal stories and perspective throughout.These series included the groundbreaking Cherry Has a Baby - a programme that marked a moment in time where broadcasting began to give women’s experiences a voice. Her honest, warm and engaging presenting style quickly established her as a household name.With a passion for wellbeing and as a trusted women’s advocate, in 2022 Cherry achieved a lifelong ambition by fronting Women’s Health: Breaking the Taboos for Channel 5 - the first ever television programme to focus solely on women’s health.She recently gave a speech to the new Labour MP’s joining parliament encouraging investment and improvement within women’s health.Over the past few years Cherry has also curated and delivered wellness workshops for brands focusing on exercise, sleep and confidence and continues her work as an ambassador for the gynaecological cancer charity, The Eve Appeal. 

Welcome to The Therapy Edit. I'm your host, Psychotherapist and author Anna Martha. I will be bringing you bite-sized episodes twice a week full of tips, wise words from expert guests and insights to support your mental well-being. Hi everyone. Welcome to today's Ask Anna episode of The Therapy Edit and I am so excited because today I have with me, Cherry Healy. Now, Cherry is a British TV presenter. She's a journalist. She's known for her relatable documentaries on modern life, including inside the factory. And I followed her for years on Instagram. And I think I met her a few years ago, we're just talking about that, that really consolidated the girl crush. But she began her career with BBC 3 exploring topics like relationships, parenting and lifestyle. And she also writes

about motherhood and self-discovery and books and columns. And just generally is, open and honest and insightful and she advocates for mental health and female empowerment. So it's just great to have you on. I feel like I already know you, as is off the way with social media. I just feel like we should have coffee and put the world to rights. I know. I do. I do.

It's so hit recorder. I'm a big fan of therapy. I've talked about it lots, but I've been in therapy since I was 28. So I've been in therapy for a long time. I'm really thrilled to be on your fabulous podcast. Oh, thank you. I've been in therapy since 2015, so I don't even know how many years that is, nine, so nine years.

Do you ever wonder what you would be like if you hadn't had, you know, like the sliding doors moment, if you hadn't had therapy, what you'd be like? It's a fantastic question. I'd be in a real pickle. I'd be in a real pickle. My therapist has helped me unperienced. pick issues around my body, issues around eating, issues around my father who had really bad

addiction problems. And that comes with some really challenging behaviour that you naturally absorb as a child because that's our example of how to be human. So she's helped me unpick that. She helped me through my divorce. She's helped me through my father's death. Gosh, what kind of person would I be? I'd struggle. I'd really be struggling massively. I'd certainly wouldn't have the relationship that I do now with my children, my boyfriend, my mom, myself. Life would be very different. What an interesting thought, yeah. So interesting.

I wasn't, I wasn't, I'm not even the same person that my, my therapist met back then. Have you had the same therapist all that time? All that time. Yeah, same. How is that possible? Don't you think they know, they know more about you than anyone else on the planet? Because I don't hold back with her. I tell her everything.

And I always try not to. to make myself look good when I tell her stories. I try and tell her the truth because there's no point in paying all that money. Very true. And then telling her like a fictional story. So true. Do you, what would you look like if you hadn't had therapy? Oh my gosh.

Honestly, Cherry, sometimes I wonder if I would even be here. Oh, that's so. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not in the version that I am. But I've been desperate. I've had desperately. challenging times, even within that period of seeing her. And I think without, without that

support, that designated place where I would go and talk, where in the rest of my life, I was kind of buttoned up and I was the helper and I was there, the go-to. So having that, having that place to go to and where you're paying, so where you're paying to talk to someone, so you might as well make the most of it. Having a therapist is like having a guide through life. And our entire reality is our consciousness and how we perceive things. So by getting a therapist, it's like getting a shirper, helping you up a mountain. And you can either fall down a crevasse or get stuck or break your leg.

But with your therapist, you're going to, you're going to have a, you are going to have a smoother journey. You just are. You can like internalize what your therapist says. So as a therapist, one of my favorite things that anyone says to me, any client is, you know, I was in this situation. and I was thinking what would Anna say?

And I love how we can internalize that voice through the rest of our kind of, yeah, as we're navigating life because we know what that therapist would say. We know what kind of compassionate words or grounding words or insights they'd give us. And we can we internalize it and take it onwards. So even if growing up we might not have had that maybe from a parent or perhaps it was done really destructively, it's just grasping this other compassion. grounded, insightful voice that we can take with us? That's such an interesting thought.

I mean, I've seen my, been seeing my therapist for over 10 years now. And every so often when I, so I go and see her now for batches of three when I'm struggling with something in a relationship or, and I'll sit in that chair and I will immediately cry. And I look out of her window, of her therapy room, and I see an apple tree. apple tree through winter, summer, spring, blossoming full of, I mean, I've just, I look at that tree and immediately makes feel emotional because I feel so safe and known in that space, in that chair. And I think that's one of the most beautiful feelings on the planet that this person opposite me, she knows everything about me, she doesn't judge me, she listens, I know that I've

got an hour to talk through something. It's the most beautiful feeling. It's really what we want in a relationship, that feeling of, oh, I'm home. I'm home. I'm not. And accepted. That's what I hope my friends feel with me in some capacity. Wow. To pivot and throw the question, play the voice note.

Although, to be honest, I think we can carry on chatting about this. But actually, this is a good one to think about in therapy because I have, I work with so many clients over the years who are just feeling stuck like there is no way out and I feel yeah I just really wanted to get your thoughts on this one from this guest because I just know you've got some wisdom so I'll play the voice name I'm slowly accepting the fact that my relationship isn't making me happy and that I'm too young to accept that this is just the way things are going to be the only problem is I'm paralysed by the fear of what life could look like on the other side and the enormity of breaking up my family is preventing me from taking the next steps. Can you help?

So another big, big life challenge here. I just wondered what your first thoughts were, Cherry. I have so many thoughts about this. And none of them are that simple. Gosh, gosh, I feel for this person. I really do. It's a silent torment. And it's a big one. Who, you know, who you're with is a huge part of your happiness, contentment, future. I have been in a similar position to this when I was in a relationship where I knew it wasn't quite right. I knew it wasn't right, but I was so scared of what was on the other side. Was there another relationship? Was the grass greener or was it, was I just going to find myself in a similar situation? It's has, I know that it has financial implications,

emotional implications, logistical implications. It's such a. huge one to go through. This is where I would be really boring and say the absolute first thing this person should do is find a good therapist. Yeah. Alone or as a couple or both or? Absolutely both. If you are going to break up a family, give yourself the gift of knowing that you have done it as clean as you possibly can. You want to be able to look back in a few. few years time and go, I gave it everything I could. Even if the grass isn't immediately greener on the other side, because being single after a long relationship is tough, breaking up family is really heartbreaking. It's not just immediate family, but it affects the whole extended family

and your friendship group. So I'm not going to sugarcoat it because I've done this. No one does this lightly, but it is really, really hard. On the other side of that valley, is a new beautiful chapter but you do have to go through the shit there is no getting away from that moving your children out of your family house living off less money breaking someone's heart potentially

there's no point sugar-coaching it because it is really hard but there is an amazing new exciting chapter on the end of that process but in order to go through the valley of shit the life jacket that you can is I tried everything. I did my best. I went through the proper channels. We went to a relationship counsellor. That life jacket will get you through the value of shit into the

beautiful chapter. But if you smash, I'm sure this person is obviously thinking about this so carefully, but there will never be a session of therapy you do that you regret. There will never be a difficult conversation had that you regret. This is a slow process. I also think for women you need to be really careful about the financials. I don't know what this person's situation is, but let's be honest, women often have less access to financial resources than men. Yeah.

Be careful. Get yourself a lawyer. Get good advice before you do or say anything. And that might sound really cynical, But again, let's be real, not having money sucks and is dangerous. And some people have access to very, very good lawyers. So if you pull the plug without having fortified yourself, I've seen women and men really screwed over by that.

Be really wise about it. And no rush takes. your time, try, if something can be fixed, do everything you can to fix it with other people's help. And if it can't, you make sure you've got a lawyer and you know your rights. Yeah. And even a big one, yeah, it's huge. And even if, you know, I'd say, even if the decision has been made, still engage in therapy, because there will be reasons you've got to this point for both of you. You know, if you're not happy, it's highly likely that your partner's not thriving either.

And actually maybe there are things that need to be said and things that need to be acknowledged or validated or heard or discussed so that moving forward whether there are kids involved or not, but it sounds like there probably is, that perhaps that relationship can be, you know, you're going to have to stay in contact if there are children involved. You're going to, there is a formal relationship that is going to be continuing most likely. So, you know, best to give that relationship the best chance of being, you know, the healthiest it can be in the circumstances. Like you say, there's things that need to be said.

There's arguments, I want to say arguments that need to happen, but there's conversations that need to happen that are potentially quite contentious. Do that in the presence of someone else. Do that in the presence of someone who can help you to communicate in a way that you've never done before. and as you say, if the decision's already been made, you are then going to fast forward your ability to co-parent peacefully. God, that is such a beautiful thing you can do for your kids. Yeah.

There is no such when you are co-parenting and when you've divorced someone or broken up, separated. There's no such thing as winning an argument. If you destroy the other person, you've lost as well. When there's kids involved, if you win an argument and you can no longer talk to that person, you've lost because you've damaged your children. So the only thing you can do to win is to listen,

sympathise, pick your battles, step into someone else's shoes, understand, be compassionate, be forgiving, be flexible. Yes, it's not quite how I wanted to do this, but I can totally do this. The biggest thing you can do for your kids at this point, if you're separating, is to have peace with your co-parent. And that's about,

it doesn't matter if you win an argument, it doesn't matter if you were right, it doesn't matter if this is the time that you've said, if they've forgotten that birthday present, go buy one for them and go, babe, I got this. I've got this. If they've forgotten again,

if they've forgotten to collect the kids from cricket, don't worry, I got this. I got your, it will, everything you give will come back to you. Every time you say, oh, do you really want to go out on Saturday and you forgot to tell me, well, actually, do you know what,

I can take the kid. kids, that's absolutely fine. I'll be around at yours. Every single thing that you give will come back to you. Every time you can walk into your partner's house and give them a hug or the kids see you chatting at a barbecue, it's a gift. And let go with being right. It's so difficult if you've been wronged or if something awful has happened. But I would say that when you're separating and if you do have to co-parent, there's no such thing as being right anymore. and do you and what do we do with those feelings when we know we've been wronged but we can we can make those decisions and we can paper over the cracks for the sake of the kids and we can do

it from a good place but actually we still need to be seen and validate you know is this where those other relationships and friendships come in where you can verbalize these things you know the support network that you have around you you can take that to and kind of have those debriefing moments. Yeah, I think at the beginning, if you think that there's a chance of the relationship being healed, then yes, I think in therapy, voice those wrongs, get that justice, get that being, you know, it's not justice, if you think the other person loves you and you think you can fix that relationship, of course, you need to voice your truth so that you can be

heard and known. If that relationship has gone and you're now in the co-parenting realm, take all of those feelings to your friends to your therapist leave that at the door of your co-parent co-parenting is a completely different sport it is a it has different rules it has a completely different set of rules to marriage you do not need this person to heal you to um care for you to empath, you just need to get on with this person. And that is it. It doesn't matter if you're right, if you're wrong. It doesn't matter anymore. You have to suck it up. I'm sorry, this is awful. Yes, have boundaries with this person to keep yourself sane. But the most important thing

that you can do is to find some kind of peace and happiness with that person. And so any sense of injustice, take that to your friends and to your family and your therapist. makes sense, I guess because that person might not be able to give you what you need or see or a holiday, they're probably going to add fuel to that fire. But I think what I'm also seeing in this question is, you know, this listener says, I'm slowly accepting the fact that my relationship isn't making me happy. And I just wonder whether a conversation has been had there. Because it sounds like, you know, what I'm hearing in this is that it's this person's process, kind of the more internal process. And I'm just, you know, it's about their experience.

of the relationship. My relationship isn't making me happy. And I just wonder, you know, if they haven't yet broached that topic with their partner, how might you go there and say, you know what? I'm not happy. And are you happy?

I would want to know how, because it's highly unlikely the other, although I have heard of relationships where the person on the reciprocal end has said, oh my God, it's came out of nowhere, but it's very rare that it's really come out of nowhere. I think I first have that conversation, are you happy? Is this what you expected marriage to be like or partnership to be like?

How can we make it right? Can we make it right? Is there any way back? Like you say, this feels like the beginning part of this long process. And happy is such a funny word because it's such an interesting word. those that you know the I'm in the beginning of a relationship and yeah I feel really happy because that's what happens and you're in the honeymoon period but that those feelings go and so happiness feels different it feels I imagine like comfort like knowing someone it's security so it changes

I wonder if this person is it is it boredom is it is the person not making an effort anymore there are so many things that can be fixed within a relationship. So it's difficult to know without context, but for the sake of argument, I think this and also having someone who's just gone through the dating world in their 40s, it's wonderful and fun at times, but it is quite tough.

And you do miss that family unit. You really miss that family unit. You know, you see couples walking around, hand in hand at Christmas and buying a tree together and being a single parent is tough. And again, I think that's really important. Not to scare someone into staying in a relationship, but I think it's really important to be,

I've never once regretted my decisions, but I have felt the consequence and it's not always nice. And being a single parent can be really lonely and really scary and financially very intense. And there are times when I just, I would love to be. to come back and cuddle up with, you know, cuddle up with someone on the sofa and share my day.

There's, being a single parent can be really, really tough. Yeah. It does allow for new doors to open and those new doors are wonderful. But it's, yeah, it's a really important to think about all these things before making this kind of decision. Yeah, that valley is a place to be. And I don't think it's helpful. It's so, it's a moving through, isn't it? And I think as long as people are proactive about the support they have and the conversations they're having and that there is a moving through just like with so, you know, with grief with, yeah, there are many of the challenges, the dark depths we journey through in life.

Like there is a through and there is post-traumatic growth and change and new newness to be found. And staying is hard, going is hard. So know what the, know the hard of staying. What does that mean? That means having difficult conversations and times when you're not super in love. Going is hard because that means going through some difficult logistical and financial changes. But both have a different beautiful patch of grass at the end of it. So neither is better than the other, but both are hard in their own different ways.

It's hard either way. It's hard either way. And I think sometimes we just yearn for there to be an easier route. But actually, yeah, to get that newness, whether in the relationship or outside of the relationship, we have to walk through the consequences and the hard times. And I, as you were talking about happiness, it was throwing me back to a wedding I went to. This was probably like 15, 20 years ago, one of the first friends that got married. And I remember in the talk, it said, you know,

love is a feeling but then there are times when it becomes a decision like every day you're making a decision to love and I've been married like 15 years this Christmas which is bad I've got married at like 24 that's so very much goodness me we're different people now but you know there have definitely been periods in our marriage where love is very much a choice because life will just sweep you along and logistics and kids and all of that will just fill all the spaces and it A relationship is something, it's hard to nurture and prioritize amidst everything else. But it doesn't kind of run itself, not in a good way. It will just go on the back burner and it will just slowly.

And yeah, there are few times that love is a real choice. Yeah, it's really easy to be like, well, this is running on it. This is running. So I need to, you know, this is okay. I'm going to park that, you know, this is happening. So I've got kids and work and trying to hustle. I've got a side hustle and I'm doing charity work and I'm doing, you know, knowing women take on so much

and this gets neglected and I think, you know, men neglect it as well and then you have two people just assuming it's going to be right and of course that garden becomes overrun with weeds and it's not tended to, it's not a beautiful place to be but it doesn't mean that you can't get a lawmower and make it look great again if you want to but sometimes it's too overgrown and that's okay you can walk away from it.

But that's when you need your friends. Gosh, you need your friends. You need your close friendship group. And you need to have them ready. And you need a plan. You need a financial plan. You need a logistical plan. You need your family.

And you need a therapist. It's all doable. And the other side is exciting and wonderful and lovely. But like being, being, being. asking for help and being organized pays dividends. Yeah, so either way it's hard, but either way there's hope if it's right. Make sure you've got the right people around you. Be honest with yourself and others.

If you do enter into a co-parenting relationship, see that relationship as something completely separate and different to what you formed before and prioritize, you know, just keeping that relationship as it needs to be for the benefit. of the kids and then do your offloading and you're ranting and you're raving with those people that can acknowledge and see and support you and yeah there's hope there's there's newness and yeah so thank you so much thank you so much answering so honestly and not sugar coating things as we you know we need that don't we we need we need honesty these things are tough and big and i just know that that will that would have been helpful for so many people

so thank you cherry where can people find you if they're if they haven't already. I mean, I can't imagine that anyone wouldn't. Well, you know it. I'm on Instagram, like the rest of the world. I'm at Cherry Healy. Come hang out with me. This is me. Yeah, this has just been so interesting and lovely and I love a podcast. Thank you so much for having you. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to The Therapy Edit today. If you enjoyed it, please do take a sec to like and subscribe so we can share the words further and wider. If you have an Ask Anna question or an anonymous confession for the Confessions from the Therapy Room episodes, head to annamartha.com and click on the podcast tab to submit.

Want more? Grab a copy of my most recent book, The Uncomfortable Truth. Change your life by taming 10 of your mind's greatest fears or enjoy some of the video and downloadable resources on my website, tackling everything from burnout to driving anxiety. So until the next episode, goodbye. Thank you.