The Therapy Edit - Ask Anna - I struggle in groups of fellow men

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

In this Monday episode of the brand new Ask Anna series, Anna is joined by Zak Hazlett Personal Development and Empowerment Coach, Speaker, Podcaster, Broadcaster and Writer. Together Anna and Zak tackle the following connundrum: " I really struggle in groups of fellow men. I'm a heterosexual male, comfortable in my own skin, reasonably successful professionally and with a happy marriage but I find myself shrinking away from male friendship groups as I feel inferior and as a result I've pushed lots of friends away and now have no social life."About ZakZak who was born and raised in the rugged beauty of Moab, where the Colorado River was more than just a backdrop—it was a way of life. Growing up to river guide parents and after spending over a decade as a river guide himself, Zak developed a deep connection with nature and a unique understanding of its power to heal and transform.With a master's degree in marriage and family therapy and a thriving career as a therapist, also a certified yoga instructor and personal trainer, Zak’s true focus lies in leveraging the natural environment as a powerful tool for personal growth and holistic healing." Zak combined this rich experience with a passion for health and wellness to “Get Outside Together,” an outdoor recreation company, Zak uses the outdoors as a therapeutic approach to help individuals and groups heal, grow, and reconnect with themselves and the world around them.Follow Zak on Instagram hereVisit his website here

Welcome to The Therapy Edit. I'm your host, Psychotherapist and author Anna Martha. I will be bringing you bite-sized episodes twice a week full of tips, wise words from expert guests and insights to support your mental well-being. Hi everyone, welcome to an Ask Anna episode of The Therapy Edit where each week I invite an expert guest to come and answer one of your questions. And today with me, I have got Zach Haslitt. I've only just recently discovered Zach, actually. It was through Hannah Barrett's account, Zach. I think I've seen you kind of on a reel, and then I've been just, you know, when you end up

just scrolling through and immersing yourself and someone's words and work. And I'm just, yeah, sad I didn't discover your page and passions earlier, but you are passionate about leveraging the natural environment as a powerful tool for personal growth and holistic. healing. And you combine this rich experience of life outdoors with a passion for health and wellness to get outside together. And that is your outdoor recreation company. And Zach uses the outdoors as a therapeutic approach to help individuals and groups heal, grow and reconnect with themselves

and the world around them. So, Zach, sounds like you spend a lot of your time outdoors. Oh, a fair bit. I think the majority of my life. I mean, I grew up outdoors. My parents were a river rafting guides and so as a child I would go to work with them sometimes and float down the river with random people from all over the world and so I kind of growing up in that environment I realized how much it changed people from like day one of a five-day river trip to the last day how much they were able to heal just by being in the sunshine and being outside and being with being with each other and being with other people and I definitely notice like if I go out for a walk which I sometimes have to be quite disciplined to do because we can easily feel like we just push it to the end of the day.

It's so easy to do that. I never come back feeling the same as when I left, ever. It's so powerful, isn't it? Yeah. Well, and that's something that I think is misunderstood or underappreciated, I think would be a better way to put it, is how much just moving our body and I mean, you're in the health space and how our mind and our body and our soul, everything is so connected. And it starts with the basics of, you know, drinking enough water and getting enough nutrients and food and moving. Just walking around and getting the blood flowing is the basic, you know, biological source of our mental well-being as well. And so I always try and remind people of that anytime I get the chance like, hey, before anything, you know, if you're feeling stressed, if you're feeling anxious or feeling overwhelmed, let's take some deep breaths, drink some water, get some food and maybe go for a little walk around that.

around the block or around the house, whatever it may be, and then see how you're feeling. And odds are pretty good. And usually you'll find that a lot of the things that you're feeling kind of regulate and you find a balance. And yeah, you'll still feel stressed and overwhelmed if life is crazy. But you'll feel a little bit less and you'll be able to see things a little bit more clearly. So that's something I think once you get underappreciated, but very powerful. So grounding, isn't it? I mean, I used to slightly eye roll a piece. people that have trees. Do you have trees? I love trees. Occasionally, from time to time. I just, yeah, they're just so, I remember the first time I did it. And I think, I'm trying to think

when it was, it was a while back. And I just kind of looked around really shiftedly, because I live on a development that's surrounded by some woodland. I looked around, made sure there were no kind of dog walkers or anything. And I just hugged this tree and it was just so solid and so calming. And now, every now and again when I remember to I go and hug a tree but I think it just reminded me again that how much we need and we're wired to be in nature more than we often are in our day-to-day lives I mean our day-to-day lives probably not so much your your day-to-day life but what has nature what has the outdoors given you that's a good question and a big big question I think more than anything, it's given me an opportunity to feel simultaneously very, very small and very large.

And what I mean by that is when you're surrounded by mountains or massive trees or the grandiosity of the outdoors, you feel like a small little ant, right? You imagine someone on a cliffside looking down at you up on a mountain. they can't even see you yet you still feel so present with where you're at and like you are a part of something so much bigger than yourself and i think it doesn't matter necessarily like any spiritual or religious beliefs that a person has just that feeling in general of wow we are we're here i'm constantly reminding myself like i am on this planet and like breathing and living and there are you know billions of other people also breathing and living here this is incredible

And so going back to just the basics of, you know, we were growing up without as much technology and just being outside a little bit more. It was just so fun to be like a part of something so big. And you didn't really think about, you didn't have time to think about all the craziness that's happening around you because you were just focused on you. So probably a grounding presence and then even just a little bit of, you know, focusing on what really matters the people around you that are closest to you. and getting outside. I love this. I often have to remind myself to look up at the sky because I think we spend a lot of our times looking down,

don't we? But literally, you know, in a physical way, looking at where we're walking, looking at our phones, our laptops, that actually we can, it kind of, sometimes I need to look up to get this wider field of vision of the bigger picture of life.

And it just really helps me to not get so booked down in the nuances and the irritations of all the things that are like literally within my you know meter square of space that I take up and what you were saying reminds me when sometimes I look at the stars and I get that feeling of being so small and in a way so insignificant but then also knowing that I'm part of something so much bigger so yeah it's like humbling and empowering at the same time a bit mind-blowing and yeah thank you that was really powerful so going to the question

From one of our guests, I'm going to play the voice name. Hi, Anna. I really struggle in groups of fellow men. I'm a straight male, comfortable in my own skin, reasonably successful professionally, and with a happy marriage. But I find myself shrinking away from male friendship groups, as I feel inferior. And as a result, I've pushed a lot of my friends away. Now I have no social life. So, Zach, lots going on there for this list now. What was the first thing that kind of came to mind as you as you heard that?

Oh, the first thing that came to my mind was I feel so similarly sometimes. And I think that's something that you would be surprised how many people are afraid to maybe go talk to someone or think that they're not good enough or imposter syndrome. them like they won't have anything to contribute, whatever the anxiety may be within that umbrella of social anxiety, I would be willing to bet that pretty much anyone you talk to is also feeling similarly. And I think sometimes we we put ourselves in a box a little bit or we isolate ourselves thinking that we're alone in things when in reality there's so many other people that's if they, if we were to be like raise our hand or if there's a bubble over our head. I always think about this as like an active on Instagram icon or whatever. It's like

I'm looking for friendship and deepening connection. It'd be so much easier to see what other people are going through. But obviously life isn't like that. But as you were talking about hugging trees, this actually came to mind of I like to do something embarrassing or challenging myself, putting myself out there a little bit every single day, even if no one's watching, like do a little dance in my kitchen or whatever, do something to kind of rid myself of that imposter syndrome because it's like, oh, I feel like I'm not good enough to be able to do this or I'm not cool enough to do this or whatever the reason might be. And just do it. Like, just say hi to the person. Just reach out. The more you practice something, the better you get at it.

And the more you challenge yourself and feel uncomfortable, the more comfortable, the more comfortable you get at things. And so going back to like that original question of how do I manage the social anxiety there. Anxiety is fear of the unknown. And if we don't know how someone's going to react to us, then we have a fear of it. And the only way we learn how people are going to react to something is by doing it. And the greatest part of all of this is speaking of the grand scheme of things and how we feel small in the world that is so big, it doesn't matter. matter what a random person thinks about you. It doesn't even matter what people that know you really think about you. As long as you're aware and willing to take those things and be like, oh, is there

anything I can work on to change? And then you do the work. It doesn't matter. People will formulate an opinion about you that serves their story best. They will decide what they think of you so that it fits in their story of life. And so you're the author of your own story and you, you are the one who's creating your own character and who you want to be and who you are. And so, yeah, take the feedback from the people that you care about and trust and don't worry about what other people think. And obviously, that's easier said than done. And this is kind of a longer answer. But do the things that scare you. Don't be afraid to be uncomfortable. And from the sound of it with this question, there's enough self-confidence and self-belief there that you know that you're doing

all right in life. And so just keep building on that foundation of belief in your yourself. And don't worry so much about what other people think about you. I love that. Yeah, you're right. It's actually, you know, he's saying, I've got a happy marriage, I'm successfully I'm successful in my work. So those big things are kind of proof that he's doing, he's doing all right. And it's interesting that, yeah, it's the, it's the more intangible things, like the relationships that he doesn't yet have that are actually the ones causing the anxiety because yeah it's the unknown isn't it so your advice is kind of yeah let go a little bit about the fear of what the people think is that something you have to coach yourself through

or is that if you found that harder at points in your life is it tell us a bit more about yeah absolutely I don't know how universal the term but people please are I'm sure that's pretty universal um I definitely grew up thinking that in order for people to love me I know needed to prove something to them. I needed to prove that I was worth it. I needed to prove that I could be successful and I could, you know, get things done. I was reliable. All of these things that we feel need to happen in order for someone to validate and care about us. And I realize that the people that care about me the most don't need me to prove anything to them. In fact, that's how it is in life. The people who we often find ourselves trying to prove ourselves to are.

going to accept us no matter how much we do because the more we can't give them more of the same thing and expect exactly right and so um i think i had to realize that i in my quest for friendship or in my search for connection with especially with other males i had to recognize that like i did have good friendships already i just was looking for more in places where i wasn't ever going to find it. And so I would say another thing is just really leaning in and deepening the friendships that you maybe already do have. Because I know we naturally as human beings want to connect more with different people and things and try new things. It's kind of a part of adaptation and evolution. And so it's easy to go to the party or go to the social event

and try and like meet new people and network because we're trying to gain something. Like most relationships are pretty transactional. And so we're trying to do that. And if we focus all of our energy into people who are not going to transact back, they're not going to give back to us, then at the end of that party, we're feeling very drained and demoralized and kind of defeated because we just gave all of our energy to people that didn't give anything back.

And so really like learning to find people who also are investing back, and ourselves makes a huge difference. And it might be people that are different than what you're looking for or think you're looking for. But at the end of the day, you don't need 100 random guy friends in your life. You need a couple friends. I know, right? You need a couple friends that also care about you and give back to you.

Yeah. So it's actually, I think the digital world, I don't know what you think, but I think it's when we got Facebook, and it was all about how, it was all about number. Like, connections suddenly, you know, everything is kind of quantified in number, how many LinkedIn connections, how many followers, friends. And where it's really, I feel like there was more value just placed on those close relationships beforehand. Do you know what I mean? And actually, the more connections we look for, we only have so much social energy. So I like, yeah, I like what you're saying about maybe looking at some of the relationships that you already do have.

and thinking about how you might deepen some of those because it takes time and it can take, you know, we need to feel safe, don't we need to be vulnerable and open it? I actually, as you were talking, was remembering a story that my friend told me how, I think a couple of Christmases ago, he went for a school dad's meetup for drinks. And he was really stressed out because I financially was struggling and he was worried about doing rounds of drinks

and having to buy everyone a drink and that just was not. He just wanted to buy wandering and then that was all he could really financially justify. So he was so worried about it and he got there and he just said, I just put myself on the line. I just said, guys, financially not doing great over here. No offence, I'm just going to have to get my own pint, you know. And he said that the number of conversations that he ended up having with other people over the course of the evening as they shared some of their experiences and where they were at financially and the things that they've been struggling with around money and debt.

And he just said it was like the best night ever because he had really put himself out there, it was probably worried that people might judge him, but actually in truth, he just connected with people more so. And I just absolutely, I loved that. I love that story. And it takes guts, you know, it can, it can feel like a risky thing to do. but the connection and the depth that came that may not have otherwise been there

is everyone just kind of held up the masks and paved the rounds regardless of the real house. I love that. I love that story and it reminds me too of my two favorite words this year but especially lately have been vulnerability and authenticity.

And in my line of work, I mean, I work with a lot of clients and people that are struggling to feel like themselves. Right? We're all in this quest. to find ourselves and that's kind of the buzzword right like the the find yourself and love yourself etc and i feel like the realist version of ourselves is the most authentic and vulnerable version because that's it's like allowing yourself to be seen and if you don't allow yourself to be

seen you're essentially putting on a show and showing what you want people to see rather than what's actually happening and there's no way to feel connected if you're doing that. And so I think in a roundabout way, that's another piece of advice that is so powerful is allowing yourself to be yourself, allowing yourself to be seen. And this is where especially in the field of professional work,

it's difficult because you kind of have to find a balance of life and work. And, you know, you don't want to share too much about your personal life. But when you're meeting new people and if you're wanting to make actual real friendships, You've got to be like that guy and allow yourself to share a little bit of what's actually going on for you. And once again, just like I was talking about in the beginning, odds are pretty good that more people than you think are going through something very, very similar and feeling the same way. And they were just afraid to talk about it because they were afraid to be seen in that way. And now they're no longer afraid.

And now you're here together talking about all these things that you're all kind of going through. And you end the night feeling bonded and connected and seen. You feel vulnerable. You feel authentic. You feel like yourself rather than feeling like, oh, what was I doing there? What was I trying to prove? Yeah. It's like a big game of chicken.

Do you have that in America? Where you're like, you're waiting, just waiting for someone to go first. Like, who's going to go first? And actually sometimes maybe, yeah, taking, it's a real gift to other people when you think, right, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to go first. I'm going to put myself out on a limb, make yourself vulnerable. And actually, I think we can really fear that vulnerability will push people away when, you know, so often the truth is that vulnerability actually draws people closer because it can feel like a relief.

So, so many tips here. Comfortable in his own skin, successful professionally, happy married, but shrinking away from those groups. So the tips kind of being maybe just amend your idea of what those relationships should look like and maybe who they are with and open up, yeah, just think what might it be like to be a bit more open-minded with who I can connect with and just looking to see what are those relationships actually that I, that maybe have the potential to go a little bit deeper and just putting yourself out there a little bit bit in the conversation and yeah just not fearing so much like having that pet talk that

you give yourself so well and you gave other people that actually other people's opinions and judgments are more to do with what they need and how they need to see the world than than you so thank you and it's a really great part and just encourage everyone to go and find you on social media and what else do you do is there any other of your resources that you might go to point people towards? Not for now. I am working on putting together some other things and writing a book right now that focuses on kind of finding

and creating that life that you want, building self-confidence, but also realizing that everything that you need in life is already within you. I think it's more, I read a quote one time, and I'll paraphrase it. I forget how it exactly went, but what if becoming who you want to be is more about unbecoming all the things that you've learned

you are, that you actually are not. And so I've been in a bit of a journey of unbecoming and figuring out who the, yeah, like the child within all of us, right? When we were little, we had zero inhibition, right? We had no embarrassment about anything. We just do whatever. And slowly we learned what we're not supposed to do. do or what we're not allowed to do or what we should do for work or how we should go to

school and do study this because that's what society thinks we should be and so slowly uncovering all those things and finding that version of yourself that is the most real and the most yeah I like to say childlike because I think the more we kind of care for that inner child inside of us the more fun we have in life the the less we worry about the things that don't matter And the more we kind of embrace who we really are. So, so true, just kind of stripping back a little bit. And yeah, just being a little bit more authentic and taking those stuff. That book sounds amazing, Zach.

I can't wait to get my hands on it. Yeah, sounds really valuable. But thank you so much. Thanks for your advice and your work. And your words are great. No, thanks for having me. Happy to be here. Thank you for listening to the Therapy Edit today.

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