The Therapy Edit - One Thing with Calm & Bright Sleep Support on feeling confident in your choices

Episode Date: July 29, 2022

In this episode Anna chats to sisters Gem and Eve of Calm and Bright Sleep Support about finding confidence in your choices.Calm and Bright Sleep Support was founded by Gem and Eve who have 7 children between them. Their sleep support services for families are provided by a team of 10 which includes three paediatric nurses, a midwife, a senior NHS Clinical psychologist and an integrative therapist and together they are proud to support thousands of families each year to find the right sleep solutions for them.You can follow Calm and Bright Sleep Support on Instagram at @calmandbrightseleepsupport You can visit their website and download an array of transformative sleep plans aimed at helping families with children aged 0-4 to find the right sleep for them at https://www.calmandbright.co.uk/You can also buy Calm and Bright's book, Love to Sleep, here https://www.amazon.co.uk/Love-Sleep-Nights-Happy-Child/dp/1398702668

Hello and welcome to The Therapy Edit with me, psychotherapist's mum of three and author Anna Martha. Every Friday, I invite one guest to tell me the one thing they would most like to share with mums everywhere. So join with me as we hear this dose of wisdom. I hope you enjoy it. Hello, everyone and welcome to today's guest episode of the Therapy Edit and I'm really excited to be chatting sleep with Even Gem of Calm and Bright Sleep support. Even Gem have a book out. It was out in January and it's called Love to Sleep and I absolutely love it because

I love to sleep. Sleep benefits all of us from my kids, their moods, how they process everything in day-to-day life, but also it impacts how I respond to them as well and how much coffee I lean towards. So that's just a brilliant book and it's just all about sleep. When I say it's all about sleep, it's not just about how to get better sleep. It's also about your relationship to how you feel about sleep. Even Gem is so passionate about banning this narrative on guilt and shame.

And they've worked with so many people, including Izzy Judd, Aston Merigold, Rachel Hambleton, Zoe Harbman. But also, I contacted them after having Florence and having had quite a traumatic experience after Charlie with his silent reflux and many nights sleep, culminating in about 45 minutes of Shatai. I kid you not. I found it quite retramatizing when Florence cried. And she was in my carrier, I think, when I contacted you, wasn't she? Yes. She was in my carrier almost all day, every day, and my back was hurting. And you were incredibly supportive and helped me guide her towards, oh, she's a great sleeper, generally. So anyway, enough enough about me. How are you? Oh, honestly, it's been mad. I've had COVID and moved house and ended a long 20 plus year relationship in the last year and it's been mental. But honestly, I'm really good. I'm really good. I'm tired, which is ironic, people say. But I'm good. I am good and I feel a bit brand new. So I'm just coming out with my little chrysalis and getting on with things now. Well, if things come in three, that's good enough to last you for the next three decades, I think. Wow.

I'm trying for it just to be boring now. That's cool. Yeah. A bit of stability would be good. And I'm really good Anna. It's so lovely to see you after so long. And yeah, just added cozy to our family, of course, although nine months now she is, which I can't quite believe. But really good, exhausted. But really happy. And it's just, yeah, lovely to be here. Good. Good. Well, no, it's lovely to have you. So the question that we ask our guests. And I think this is the second time I've ever had two at a time. So it's wonderful. wonderful to have you together. So the question that we ask our guess is if you could share one thing with all the mums, what would that one thing be? So for us, it is that there is no one right way to do sleep. So if it feels right for you, it is right. And if whether that's co-sleeping and feeding every 20 minutes, whether it's your child sleeping independently for 12 hours, if it feels right, it is right.

And we would just urge everyone to be able to find a way to shrug off the guilt and the shame and to do them with their head held high when it comes to sleep. Yeah, powerful. There's so much conflicting information out there, isn't there? In everything, it's not just sleep. I think there's all the well-meaning advice, your friend, your, you know, the health practitioner supporting you, your family. And I think especially with sleep, it's such a contentious topic, but it's very widely spoken about.

And I think that can make you as a parent, certainly as a new parent, feel the shame, the guilt. Am I doing this right? Why isn't my baby speaking like my friend's baby? So it's just about casting aside any judgment for yourself, really. And doing what feels right for you. That's so, so important in today's world. Yeah. And I'm just thinking in my head of, you know, over the years, friends.

have had really different approaches and I remember one friend and she wouldn't mind me saying this kind of it suddenly came out she was like we bought two super two super king size beds our one bedroom is basically a bed and this is what works for us and I've been worried about telling people because I don't want you to you know think judge me for it and it just made me realize how much shame there can be around the choices that we made behind our doors and how much more support we might be able to find even amongst our friendship groups or you know through you guys when we when we start when we decide to actually let go of some of that shame and think well this is right yeah this is right for us and I get a sense this is right for us so yeah

if I want support I want it in line with that yeah and to be able to share your stories like you to be able to talk about how it's okay if it's different if it's working for you it's working and there's no wrong if what you're doing is working for you. But sometimes it's hard to even know what you want to do when there's so much conflicting information out there. I think one of the hardest things for me was when I was beginning out as a parent, I was very much a kind of left-wing attachment parent, which I still am, breastfeed on demand. I was sort of barefoot and wanted to let them roam free pretty much. And I thought that you had to choose between two camps of either. Just let everything go with the flow, but you don't get any sense.

sleep and you don't have any boundaries and your children can't be said no to and they're feral. This is in my head. Or they're really rigid, strict and they're brilliant sleepers, but they're emotionally scarred and I didn't want either of them. And I think there's a huge amount of misinformation out there about sleep. And unfortunately, anybody can go online or in person and say you will damage your child if you do sleep training. And they can pull out some loose studies that are about something completely out of context to show that, of course, trauma equals an disattachment, but it's not in context to sleep teaching. So what we're most passionate about, I'd say, is giving parents the evidence-based information

and truth and compassion so that not that they'll sleep teach, which is of course what we do, but so that they can make their own informed decision from a place of confidence, not fear. I think in general, any decision you make from place of fear isn't always the right one. So if we can be informed and supported, like you say, with no judgment, then we're really powerful beings as women and mothers. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think it was interesting what you're saying about what you thought you'd be like as a mum. And I think sometimes the biggest judgment that I felt is my own judgment towards the mom that I am

that I thought I might be something different to. And sometimes it's, you know, for me it's been about accepting that this is a mom that I am and it might be different, and I might have a different approach or feel comfortable with something different to how I assumed I may have in that picture of how the head I have? Absolutely. That makes perfect sense. I think we have these preconceived ideas about how we want to mother. And motherhood is hard. It's really difficult.

We have to go inwards a lot and look at ourselves and how we respond and react. And I think, you know, sometimes the idea that you had, if that's different. That doesn't really take anyone else, doesn't? It's just your own idea and that can lead to disappointment if it's not how you planned it to be. So it's about going with the flowers in it, which is so hard to do sometimes when everything is so changeable. Everything, it's usually you get used to one thing in motherhood. It tends to change the ages and stages, especially if you have children at different ages as well. It's hard, isn't it?

It is. And what advice do you have then for those that might be listening to you? thing, do you know what I actually don't know what I want for my family or what feels right? Almost like that little voice inside that that voice of intuition has been so kind of drowned out by all of the different information out there that sometimes we find ourselves feeling I don't actually know what is right for me and my child. What would you recommend? Such a good question, you know, because also exhaustion really does make us feel very confused and very unable to access what is the intuition and truth. And like you say, when you're bombarded with loads of different information,

it's all very well, people saying, just follow your gut. Well, what if I don't know what that is? So for us, it's actually really simple to discover whether sleep is working for you, which is nice to hear, I'm sure. And it's as simple as, do I feel like my child and I are rested? You know, are we energized most of the time? We all have our moments. But do I feel connected to my child or do I feel resentful?

and snappy and volatile emotionally, do I feel like I'm responding or reacting and am I responsive or am I shut down and cut off, which is how I was when I was exhausted? Do I feel close to my romantic partner if I have one? Do I feel connected to them? And in between sleeps, are they pretty much happy? You know, not all of the time, but if you're constantly dealing with not knowing whether to pick them up or put them down, nothing's right, they don't want the food, they don't want to go to the park. They're rubbing their eyes. They've got perhaps grey under their eyes. Perhaps you're feeling dangerous in the car or you're forgetting things that are important to you. Perhaps you're beating yourself up. Then maybe it's not working for you and maybe it's time then to think

about is there a different way because the biggest bit of advice as well that we say all the time is nothing changes if nothing changes. So if it's not working for you as it is, it's time to take some action and that's when you might want to seek support with that. Yeah, that's really helpful. Oh my goodness. Even when you were describing a tired child rubbing their eyes and not sure what they want, I'm also thinking that sounds, that sounds like me. And I think over the years I've become even more aware of how sleep deprivation or exhaustion affects my mental health and the way that I am with the kids and my husband. Yes. Yeah, and that, you know, that gap between something happening and, you know, knowing that and reacting and being able to react or respond in a way

that I'm actually not going to feel guilty about later. Yeah. You know, that gap is so much. That's hard with sleep as well, isn't it, Anna? When you have sleep, it's hard because how difficult is parenthood? And but I think when you're when you're faced with day-to-day things and the pressures and you're exhausted, it's really hard. And I was chatting to her mum just yesterday on our inbox over at Common Bright and she said,

I'm too exhausted to do anything about this. I don't know what to do because when you're exhausted, it's hard to think clearly about what you want. And so we had a conversation and we decided at the end of the conversation that she wasn't ready for change. But she felt so much better about that. And we talk to families all the time and we turn away with love and say it's okay to keep doing this if you need permission from us,

which you don't, but it is okay. and lots of these parents will come back when they're ready and it's got to be come from a readiness school to be but it's hard to decide that when you're so exhausted oh my gosh i remember that getting in touch with you and florence so charlie basically screamed day night because he he was undiagnosed in chronic pain so i had a real visceral reaction when my newborn florence um cried so for me it took me straight back and it was you know this is bad i can't ever let her cry and that's where she was in a carrier all the time but i was like but at the same time time I can't, it's hard to parent my other kids when I've got a baby struck to me, you know,

half of the day. And I felt stuck between a rock and a hard place. Because if I put her down, she cried and then I felt re-traumatized. But if I had her in to carry, it was hard to, my back was heading. It was hard to parent. And you really, you really, really helped me see that there was a way that I could, I guess, be aware of my own emotional process whilst also getting her and me what she needed and devised something that really helped. And I think I remember kind of settling her down and then picking her back up and settling. And it just, it was a way that really worked for me taking into account our stories. And we all have that as well, don't we? We have our own physical, personal stories and reactions to,

to things that can be triggered in sleep. Because sleep is, it's like a metaphor for so much more in our life, isn't it? And it is. It is. That's such a good point, actually. It's not just sleep. It's about so much more. You might have had a difficult pregnancy or a difficult birth or you might have had something going on in childhood where you didn't feel that you were heard or seen. And this can all and does all come up in the very emotive topic of sleep. There is so much more to sleep than blackout blinds and white noise and the temperature in the room. We don't even talk about that, to be honest. There's not one time in our plans. It's all about where is this coming from and can we help you to overcome it? And the vast majority

of the time, the answer is yes. But you're right. It's very emotive, but it's not. just about sleep. It's all about how we feel about ourselves and our children. Yeah, and that's what I love about your book. So you've got your Instagram, which is Calm and Bright Sleep Support, and you are so incredibly generous. It's like you can't help yourself, but to give away so much valuable information through your Q&As and your different videos that you have saved. So thank you for that. And then you've also got your plans alongside your book. So can you tell us a little bit more about those and what ages they go up to you as well. Yeah, of course. So we support families with babies from zero up to four years

and the zero part, the fourth trimester part because they're huge advocates of the first three months being treated as the fourth trimester. And that's very much about being baged and being responsive and feeding through the nights and then we have age-appropriate plans that go right up to four years. So we, you know, we're a team of health visitors and pediatric nurses. We have a clinical psychologist in our team and midwife is joining our team. So we will always place you with someone who is completely experienced in nursing children and in child development and match you up with that sleep supporter. So the plans alone work for lots of people. There's a whole host of information in there and lots of people are fine with the plan only, but we also offer one-to-one support

with our really experienced sleep practitioners. So we will always offer you ongoing support for as long as you need it. I love that there are so many different access points. And what's your favorite, what's your favorite part of your job? The one, like the pinnacle, the top favorite bit. Oh, you've given me goosebumps for that question. Ah, me too. It's exactly what it's about. It's lovely to hear that a child has slept 11 to 12 hours or taken a two-hour nap.

But it doesn't feel the way it feels when we hear my child for the first time told me, no, I can do it, mummy. or my husband and I slept in the same bed for the first time, or I've decided to go for it and write that book, or do you know what, I'm going to have another baby. I thought I never could because of the trauma of before, but we're having another baby. So it's the, it's not about sleep. It's about the impact that sleep has on your life. It truly is Mother Nature's most powerful Alexia. So it's about what sleep enables us to do and be for this fleeting time on this planet, we can only be our best selves with the help of this super healing balm.

As Shakespeare called it, nature's soft nurse. It's a beautiful, healthy, natural thing. So for me, it's the kick of life changes as a result of the sleep teaching. What about you, GK? I think that it's helping the mum, help doing what we needed. You describe it's a beauty when you talk about, when we help. help the family. It's like you're reaching down to our old selves on the kitchen floor and pulling them up to standing. And for me, when I hear someone say, Gem, thank you. I feel like myself again or, you know,

the things that Eve were describing, the connection, the joy that people find from getting the rest. To me, it's that. And we, I make people cry a lot of the time with my voice notes. So I quite like doing that because I like getting in there, getting to the root of it. So yeah, it's just helping. and I feel like we would put on this planet to do this. I feel very, very lucky to be able to do this work. Oh, you do it so, you do it so well. So I have some quick five questions for you. Okay, who would like to share a motherhood high?

Gem, you go. Gem, go. A motherhood high. Sundays without screens at our beach hut and the kids are happy. I just, that to me is my high went. all my children are together and happy at the same time, which is hard when you've got four. It doesn't happen very often, but that is my high. Time up our beach, everyone happy.

I love that. I love that. And I love the photos when you share those as well on your Instagram. And Eve, what's a motherhood low for you? It was crashing my car. I can say it straight away with my 10 month old in it and thinking, hold on, I've been made to feel like if I don't feed every five seconds that I'm a bad mom, but I've just nearly killed us. So this can't be right. So it was the stuck between the rock and the hard place.

thing again of hold on so I can't sleep train and I can't carry on as I am what on earth am I supposed to do so it was the car it was the storm before the calm before I came up with our own way to do it in the middle yeah and what incredible beautiful things have come out of that that terrifying vulnerable moment and so Jen what's one thing that makes you feel good I think when I'm able to be time to myself and this is something that I have to practice daily. I'm able to feel the good and I'm a work in progress with that. But I feel good when I'm actually kinder to myself about the tough stuff. And even if I have a tough date at the end of the day being able to say,

do you know what I did that? That one thing I did that. So it's really the relationship with myself and how I'm processing our days really. I love that. So Eve, a very easy one to finish off. how would you distill a motherhood down into three short words? I would say that there's a huge amount of discomfort and that my biggest growth has come from the discomfort when I've had a mirror shone right up in my face about what I needed to work on. And so the discomfort is the first thing.

The next word I'd use to describe motherhood is it's going to be elation because when I have those tiny, simple moments and it's not when they're all being perfect or anything, it's just when I see some kindness that they've been kind to another human. I just think, this is it. This is what, this is my appraisal at work. This is the evidence of what I've done. So I feel completely joyful when I feel like they've done something, they've put some good out into the world. So I sense that a lot. And the otherhood of, the other thing I'd say for motherhood is, it's a really good question. I would say It's hard. It's so much harder. I pride myself on excelling at things. And if I'm not very good at

something, let's say table tennis in the first five minutes, I won't bother with it. Can't do that with motherhood. And I imagine myself to be screen free, dummy free, you know, eating organic food, mother. And I'm not. And I'm totally at peace with that. So I would say that hard is the other thing. And I used to think that that was whinging. I used to think that that meant that I wasn't coping and that I wasn't doing as well as everyone else. But now, the more we talk about it through amazing platforms like yours, the better. So it's bloody hard.

Sorry, I don't know if I can say that. No, no, that's fine. No, what an amazing, what amazing and truthing to end on. So thank you so much for your time today. It's been wonderful, looking at your beautiful faces and talking about sleep and the importance of it. Thank you for having us. Bye.

Thank you for. for listening to today's episode of The Therapy Edit. If you enjoyed it, please do share, subscribe or review because it makes a massive difference to how many people it can reach. You can find more from me on Instagram at Anna Martha. You might like to check out my three books, Mind Oath and Mother, Know Your Worth, and my new book, The Little Book of Calm for new mums, grounding words for the highs, the lows and the moments in between. It's a little book. You don't need to read it from front to back. You just pick whatever emotion resonates to find a mantra, a tip and some supportive words to bring comfort and clarity. You can also find

all my resources, guides and videos, all with the sole focus of supporting your emotional and mental well-being as a month. They are all 12 pounds and you can find them on anamatha.com. I look forward to speaking with you soon.