The Therapy Edit - One Thing with Clare Bourne on taking small steps to better understand your body

Episode Date: October 27, 2023

In this Friday guest episode of The Therapy Edit, Anna chats to her friend and Pelvic Health Physio about her One Thing; that every mum should take small steps to better understand their bodies.Clare Bourne is a specialist pelvic health physiotherapist and author of Strong Foundations, based in London, with a passion to support women and men throughout their lives. She believes in talking openly about taboo topics and ensuring everyone feels comfortable to get support even for problems that may feel embarrassing to talk about. She worked extensively in the NHS before starting up her own private practice. She is a Mum of 2 and has learnt first hand the importance of care and support during the perinatal period. Clare is the founder of All About Mum which provides postnatal education cards, webinars and ebooks to support women with all the information they deserve. She is also co-founder of the Pelvic Health Practice, a specialist team of pelvic health physios providing home visits across London. You can buy Clare's book, Strong Foundation here.You can follow her on Instagram here.You can visit Clare's website and find out more about her services here.

Hello and welcome to The Therapy Edit with me, psychotherapist's mum of three and author Anna Martha. Every Friday, I invite one guest to tell me the one thing they would most like to share with mums everywhere. So join with me as we hear this dose of wisdom. I hope you enjoy it. Hi, everyone. Welcome to today's guest episode of The Therapy Edit. I was really excited to record this one this morning because I, I said, I feel like I'm sitting down with a friend, but in truth, I am actually sitting down

chatting to a friend. I have followed Claire Bourne on Instagram for quite a long time, actually. But then we've since gone on walks through the woods. We voice note each other. We chat on and offline. And I just can't wait to bring Claire's words to you. Claire is a pelvic health physiotherapist in a month of two. She is also an author of the book Stronger. foundations, which sound really recently, all about why pelvic health matters, an empowering guide to understanding your body. And that is exactly what it is. It is full of really warm wisdom, just passion filled, just a desire to encourage us to understand our bodies and to be just, yeah, to make the most of them. I'll share a bit more about that and she'll share

a bit more about that too in a moment. But she worked in the NHS extensively before. developing her private practice. She works with women and men throughout their lives with symptoms relating to their pelvic floor and has a particular passion in supporting women during pregnancy and afterbirth. And she's also a mummy MOT practitioner. She shares information on social media and what I love is that she encourages us to think about the stuff that we can so easily bury our head in the sand about. She tells us to up the bar of what we accept for ourselves. She says don't just put up with leaking and make jokes about it. Don't just put up with pain in sex, there is more for you and she encourages and equips you in finding that more. So welcome,

Claire. Thank you. Hello. Let me see your face today. How are you? How are you? I'm very well. Thank you. Yeah, good. Bit chilly. chaos. Yeah, I know. I keep digging jumpers out from under my bed. And soon I'm just going to have to make that switch. And it a commitment. Yeah, put the summer stuff away. Absolutely. You know, then there was a heat wave on my birthday. Oh, well, this is very confusing. Very confusing. How are you feeling after like publishing a book? Yeah. I mean, it's wild, isn't it? I mean, you've done this four times, but it's just like amazing. I mean, look, the response has been lovely. I think there is a real receptiveness to want to talk about these topics more, which is really exciting. You paved away for that. I'm pretty sure that acceptance that you're bringing the book, you're birthing the book into. You have inspired that. You've been a massive part. in encouraging people to think about what some other countries. Is it France that you, France, you automatically get a number of sessions of having a baby with a pelvic health specialist because they value it so much.

And you're like, guys, we need to be valuing it over here as well. 100%. And I think just changing the whole narrative around it as a topic, like so much, I was sharing last week so much as a feedback when I was going through that whole like getting a book deal process and there was so much feedback of like, oh, I'm really sorry, but this. topic is probably a bit niche for a book or this topic is, if women wanted to know about this, they would just Google it. And I was like, and here endeth our problem. Yeah. Actually, this is the entire reason this book needs to be read. And thankfully, you know, Harper Collins were willing to take a risk on me. And it was a risk. You know, this is not a topic that we value enough to kind of sell loads and loads of topic. But the reception,

I think women have been like, finally, finally, thank you for talking about this more. So hopefully it's, again, another shift, I think, with all of these topics, and you'll have seen this with mental health, you know, you have a bit of a chip, and then it stabilises, and you have another chip, and you stabilise, and then another bit comes. And I think that's what we're on. We're on a journey, but I also believe that we need to be the change. I've been talking a lot about that in the last week. Like, it's very easy to be, like, looking at institutions at the NHS and being like, you need to change, you need to change. And yes, they do, and there's a lot going on internally, but change in institutions takes so long. Whereas small,

changes in ourselves can actually happen on a daily basis. And I always think about that with your kind of tips of like, have a glass of water in the morning, value yourself. You need to drink. Don't be dehydrated. That's going to make your body more stressed. And that's one tangible thing. I don't need an institution to change for me to change that for myself. And the same in pelvic health. And that's really, I guess, what I've been trying to do through the book is actually just give a parent tangible things to support their kids, women tangible things to help in pregnancy, women tangible things to help in postpartum, women looking at perimenopause, tangible things to help for that.

And actually at each stage, you can just take one or two things that you can implement. And that can be the change. That can be enough. Yeah. And even, I mean, you share so much on Instagram. And I was reading your stories the other day and you were answering a question where someone says, you know, my kids don't want to poo at school. And then, you know, just this awareness of pelvic health and how important it is right from

the off. and how even if we're kind of withholding internally stuff that needs to be very physically released, that's having an impact on us, both psychologically and physically. So it really does. You know, when you get this feedback, it's a bit niche. Your book's called Strong Foundations. This is foundational stuff that we all need to know. Our pelvic floor is literally holding everything in our bodies, everything up there. We need to know about this stuff. So I'm really excited to hear about the one thing that you would love to share with all the mums listening. What is that one thing? My one thing was I want you to find tiny moments to try and nurture

but understand your body better. And I think this is a huge thing that I work with mums in clinic is actually a lot of the time we don't even understand how things work. So how can we actually look after them if we don't really know how everything works? So this might be as simple as having a look at your vulva with a mirror. Just understand your anatomy. Because I think the thing is with women, and we see this clinically and medically, they come in and they're like, I don't actually know if there's something wrong with me because I don't actually know what it looked like before. Like we're so disconnected with our bodies. Now, actually just understanding your body has so much importance, whether that's into your relationship with somebody else, whether it's your relationship

with yourself, whether that's your day-to-day function. So that would be one small tip. Another small tip, like giving yourself permission to have some space to go to the toilet. Like, it's something as a mum's. Like, I always say motherhood is like the biggest interrupter of bowel motions, right? Yes. You need a poo and your kids just do a poo whenever they want. And probably your partner also does the same. And yet we try and go and have two minutes in the toilet and mommy, where's this? Mommy, where's that? And actually within our family now, we've tried to be give, do it as like everyone needs respect. If you're in the bathroom, like whether it's, you're a child, we give our kids and have this option, would you like some space? Would you like us

to shut the door? Would you like anyone, someone to be with you? But it's your choice. Like, there is, this is a sacred space for you to have space. And we're trying to not integrate that interest to everyone. So like, it's taken time because I just think there's like no boundaries with mums a lot of the time, right? It's just like, they're with me all the time. It's okay to say I just need some space and put that as a boundary in place and it might take time. But our bodies need space to relax, right? We can't, and our boughs is so foundational of pelvic health. And I think, look at the stats, like women are much more likely to have constipation. Women are much more likely to have IBS. Now, there's lots of different reasons for that.

It's not just for not having space, but that's so integral to everything. I mean, a bit like what you said about the school thing, the amount of messages I had about women being like, oh yeah, I started doing that at school and I still do it. I still can't poo anywhere else but my house. I still get really anxious. I still get really stressed. And so it starts with the small and then we can like make changes. So I think probably those like understand your body better. Like in the first chapter of my book, I go through like literally basic things of like how we, we, how we poo, how these things actually work. No one tells us this stuff. And basic education can make a huge difference as to how you feel in your body. It doesn't need to take hours. Like I absolutely

promise you it doesn't it's just one or two things i love this and i think you're so right about the basic education the number of times i literally done a wee really way fast on purpose kind of like oh just like you get it out as quickly as possible because i've got to be somewhere or the kids are in the car or you know and even just that active pushing when you're going for a wee not isn't isn't helpful for your body but if we understand how that isn't helpful and understand the actual mechanisms of something that we're doing every day, numerous times a day, that actually if we just make a tiny tweak, like just let it go, let it go as it comes and just respect that this system in our body and have a bit more of an understanding of what happens when we push some of these

things or just those little tweaks that we can make that are actually about respecting our bodies. But if we don't understand how it's actually working, that can be really hard. to know the importance of just being a bit more mindful in those moments and letting it take a couple of extra seconds, because what's going to happen? And it's, I always think about what you said about, like, do I need to run up the stairs? And like, yes, the other day when I was coming home from work, I was like, I could run up that escalator because I feel like I need to rush or I'm actually really tired. I'm just going to stand on this escalator.

And that has really been a really helpful mind shift. And I think we can put that into elements of our pelvic health as well. like, yes, if I sit on this toilet for like another, probably 2.5 seconds to make this wee more relaxed, I'm actually going to gain anything in my day if I rush it. No, probably not. With the gains, you'll have a better. I also think we shouldn't feel worried to say to our kids things like, you know what, mommy needs a poo. I just don't think I was brought up with that sort of conversation and it still felt a bit awkward to say that. But I'm like, the more I model to my kids to say like, mommy needs that space, the more they're going to be like, well, it's

okay for me to have that space and have those open conversations. Like my daughter came home the other day and was like, mommy, this girl said that you can't poo at school. And like, this is where these conversations came on social media, because you might make it smell and therefore we shouldn't poo at school. And I was like, crikey. Like, that's the chat in the playground these days. I was like, no, like, poo when you need to poo. And because I'm open with her, she's then open with me. And that's the kind of modelling, like it's okay to talk about things, okay to show respect to your body in these ways. We can't teach the next generation that if we're not doing it too. It's really important. Yeah, absolutely. And I remember, I think it was one of these podcast chats where we were

talking about how the shame that we often have and the things that feel taboo, we will be passing that on to our children that those things are to be. Like even in the way, like when you talk about doing a poo, there's a part of my body that's tensing up because I also, I can feel quite coy about these things, quite embarrassed about these things. And actually, sometimes if we want our children to be able to talk to us, if we don't want them to feel like these things are taboo, if we don't want them to be withholding in their little bodies because they're fearing, because they've had this conversation at school and they don't really want to talk to us about it, we need to start breaking down that misinformation or that feeling of shame. Yes. So that we, you know, and just even

labelling, talking about vulva's and vaginas, you know, I've had to be really intentional about calling the body parts the right names, the penis, not your dingling or whatever words can so easily come out because I don't want them to have, I want them to feel educated, I want them to feel empowered. So therefore, I have to address and push through and process my own shame and taboo so that I'm modelling it. Totally. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's interesting speaking to Kate Moore, who I know you know as well, who's this wonderful sex therapist. You know, just talking, she's like, at the end of the day, Claire, so much comes back to shame. Like, you know, whether it's a sexual problem, whether it's a pelvic health problem, it's a blood

problem, it's a bowel problem, so much can come back to shame. And I mean, that could be true of so many topics, not even just around this area of our body. And that, I totally agree with you. Like, it's creating that space and removing the shame around it. But it's uncomfortable for us because we haven't been modelled this. And I think there's, that's why I would say to many, can just, I said last week, I was like, I feel so responsible for my kids' health, mental health, financial well-being, mortgages, university education, education. Like, there's so much to feel responsible for, right? I was like, I literally don't want to be another person who's like, and now you need to

think about this. But that's why I don't think this needs to be complicated. I actually think, again, a bit like raising a happier mother, raise a, like, more aware mother as well, two or three things you can think about yourself that will percolate onto the kids. So don't feel of it like a whole massive topic of something. I've got to now, you know, understand the entire part of it. You don't. There's one or two things that you can do that I genuinely believe will change things for you and for them. Yeah. And can you give

us some more tips then? Because you've told us, encourage us to grab mirror, acquaint ourselves with our bodies, read your book to understand more of the mechanisms of this body that we have that we've been gifted with so that we can find new ways to respect it. You've encouraged us to not push bowel movement so that we're actually giving ourselves space, which is really about respect, isn't it? It's about self-respect. It's all of these things when we're not doing these things, when we're not knowing our bodies and we're not, you know, we're not giving ourselves space. What messages that we're giving to ourselves? How are we, what are we doing to our self-esteem and our sense of kind of ownership and empowerment? So what are some other tips that

we can little things that we can implement. I mean, really practical things that like for me should just be basic. So fluids, get your fluids in. I mean, whether that's for your kind of nervous system or whether that's for your bowels, brilliant, you know, and your blood are fiber. Fiber, really good. And I think what's so helpful is when you start viewing these things, you realize how they're like really interconnected. So if we think about fiber, yes, we know that's good for like doing a poo, but we also know it's really good for the gut microbiome. And I know you're really interested in sort of that mind-gut link as well. So when you think about fiber as a topic, it actually knocks on lots of amazing benefits. So, you know, we're meant to have like 30 grams or something

a day. I just think about can you get something in your breakfast, in your lunch and in your dinner that's got a good amount of fiber, vegetables, fruit, whole grains, yeah? Just think about that how I'm nourishing my body and some movement. You know, again, I know you're really passionate about exploring this. Movement is great for all elements of health. It's really good for our pelvic health as well. So I would say to a minute, even if you just come back to those three things a day, fluid fibre and movement in very basic ways, you're doing so many things for your pelvic health, but they will also have knock on effects, probably your mind and other elements of your body. So I think if I was one thing to take away, those would be my three tips.

Yeah. So fluid, fibre and movement. And there's so, there are so many different ways to do those things that we can think, actually, what do I like to drink? How might I replace some of that coffee with a nice herbal teas. I'm not kind of further hydrating my dehydrating myself. Totally. How my eye, what kind of fibre do I like? And just sometimes just doing a simple Google search to see all the different options. I think, yeah, I already eat some of that. Or actually I haven't, so many, so many vegetables in my, in my fridge and fruit in my fruit bowl, I have as kids in my head there for the kids. The kids, yeah. So like the little mini sweet corn, the sugar snap peas, the broccoli, there for the kids. And I've really tried to.

to challenge myself. Like the nice frozen berry is there for the kids, you know, the apple's there for the kids. And it's almost like I've, yeah, stop myself from eating some of these things. Why do they need to be for the kids? They're also, I need them too. So I'm trying to kind of take ownership of the good stuff. Absolutely. You need to like feed the CEO. Otherwise the company is going to fall apart. Like in any other model, you would never do the same. You would never, like, pay the employees and leave the CEO without anything. Like, it's just start at the top, look after the people. Yeah, absolutely.

And I think what you're doing is helping us bridge this generational gap. So I think our generation of us, mothers, women, we've got one foot in the camp of being raised in a certain way, all of these taboos, all of these approaches to parenting. And then we are this very educated generation where we have so. much information available to us. So we're trying to do things differently to how we've been, to how it's been done. And that's like a really big gap, isn't it? And I think what your book is doing is saying, yes, yes, all of these things were taboo, but we're the generation that are really trying to change that for future generations. We're the ones that are kind of bridging this gap of change. And it is a massive thing to do. But I love, I love, I love,

these tips and how implementable they are and how, you know, a big topic that we can feel quite uneducated on when we just break it down and we just learn and we start to respect ourselves, we are changing things. Totally. For the generations to come. It's just, what I want people to hear is this is more than just doing some pelvic floor exercises because I think when you hear pelvic health, you're like, oh, I've done those squeezes like it didn't work for me. And it's like, it's just a bigger conversation than that. And actually I think when we hear that and you've tried that and you just think, oh, that was a waste of time. You then think, well, this is not relevant to me that I'm out of hope. And often the work I end up doing one-to-one with women, it's just taking

that off the table and saying, let's look at the wider picture here. You know, your nervous system, your nutrition and everything else. Exercise is really important, but just I want people to hear it's more than that. Please know it's more than that. It's more than that. It's so much more than that. And I think you haven't even spoken about squeezes. No, I have done a couple. Just speaking to you has that impact on me. I start just get a couple of, yeah, pelvic floor exercises in when I, when I see your face, to be honest. I think that's probably the effect you have on many people. I do. But the wider picture of it all, and this is what you're so passionate about, just inspiring and educating us in. So I'm so grateful, Claire, that you, that you are here in our,

in our phones and in our hands. And just because you're passionate about us being empowered and educated about and finding ways to respect and nurture our body. So I encourage everyone, everyone, this should be given, this should be part of like the reading list of being, being a human. I'm going to say being a woman. But actually, you know, there is a lot, a lot to be said for men learning and understanding this stuff too. They need to. You see men. They're totally. Absolutely. They have pelvic floors to hold up all their organs as well. so yeah everyone go and grab a copy of strong foundations and just enjoy the warmth and the wisdom in the pages there is nothing dry and boring about this book it is very much needed you know what

my mum saw this on my kitchen table the other day and she was like yes I saw this in the eye paper and I was so happy because she was a she was a physio before she trained as a therapist and she was just so happy she was like this is so needed I this has been so needed for such a long time. So my mom is a big fan of yours and very grateful for what you're putting out into the world. But to finish off, I'd love to ask you a couple of quick fire questions. Okay. Yes, please. What is a motherhood high for you? I think motherhood high has been understanding my kids and actually trusting my gut instinct. So we've been talking a lot about the education setting for my kids and we've actually just recently made some changes and it was probably

the hardest decision for me. But I knew my gut instinct that I needed something different for my kids and I think trusting that and now I'm now in the other phase of seeing the like I guess the fallout of it being well not fall out the the positive fallout of it being the right thing um I questioned myself but I knew deep down so just trusting my gut instinct in that I think is a real high because I found that really hard to do yeah it's very empowering isn't it I think we trust our gut instinct and it turns out well because I think we so often overlook that we look out to the world first for affirmation of what feels right when actually sometimes You know, we Google our way out of our gut instinct.

So just trusting that and seeing that pay off. Amazing. And then finally, pelvic health aside, what is one thing that makes you, Claire Bourne, feel good? Oh, lifting weights. I love lifting. Oh, I'm expecting that. Yeah, I know. I love, I've really got into like lifting heavy weights.

And part of that was about bone health. I wanted to look after myself. But I actually just love the space. It's like this sacred, like I go to my PT's house. She has like one room. It's like almost like movement therapy. And it's just been an absolute lifeline for me this year amongst all the crazy that we've done. So yeah, lifting heavy weights.

Oh, I wasn't expecting that. I don't know what I was expecting to be honest, but I love that. Yeah. So much as we said for bone health, but also that feeling of, again, it's just about strength, isn't it? Totally. About feeling empowered. Totally. Well, thank you, Claire.

Thank you for everything that you put out into the world. thank you for your friendship and for your kind of relentless passion, even in the face of being told it's niche because you know that this is stuff we need to know. So thank you. Thanks, love. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of The Therapy. And if you have enjoyed it, don't forget to subscribe and review for me. Also, if you need any resources at all, I have lots of videos and courses on everything from

health anxiety to driving anxiety and people pleasing nail. are all on my website anamatha.com and also don't forget my brand new book raising a happier mother is out now for you to enjoy and benefit from it's all about how to find balance feel good and see your children flourish as a result speak to you soon